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Author Topic: Interacting with Your MLCer No Contact III

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Interacting with Your MLCer No Contact III
OP: December 06, 2015, 06:08:58 PM
New thread for NC.

Link to No Contact II

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5639.0

Some insight for the kinds of contact made and the possible emotions behind it.

http://www.exboyfriendrecovery.com/the-male-mind-during-the-no-contact-rule/
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« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 06:28:50 PM by Anjae »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#1: December 06, 2015, 09:32:48 PM
I thought III looked like a new thread. Time already for another round of posts.
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Re: No Contact III
#2: December 22, 2015, 04:30:26 PM
I bolded a paragraph the really hit home for me as it shows the progress of an NPD with age.
This article rings pretty true for the situation I find myself in.

Give yourself some peace this Christmas..try NC.


Going ‘No Contact’ with an abuser may mean leaving friends and family
Dec 7, 2015
Written By: Plato's Stunt Double


Time to fess up. Going low to no contact with a domestic abuser might mean leaving behind beloved friends, pets, your own children, all the people in your family’s social and emotional support network. Why? Because people with entitlement issues, who have personality disorders, who have a mean streak, or are predatory by nature are oftentimes supported and enabled by those very same people who victims report feeling sentimentality about.

It’s the hardest part about drawing lines in the sand and walking away for good when and if obnoxious, thoughtless, cruel, abusive, or otherwise manipulative and conniving people come bounding across them like Dee Dee on the Cartoon Network show “Dexter’s Laboratory“. If a narcissist enjoys pushing you around, a narcissistic Enabler loves ferreting out trigger issues.

It makes them feel powerful to button-push an already functionally incapacitated person in an attempt to trigger them or rattle their cage even even more. They are nosy, act with a sneaky but pervasive sense of entitlement, and thrive on gossip. All are Flying Monkeys, though the milder ones are of a more covert sort.

If you are going through a divorce or family estrangement from an abusive person, expect Flying Monkeys to come out of the woodwork and start pushing your button’s faster than Dee Dee pushes her cartoon brother’s. If you are walking away from a toxic family home, people you kept abuse secrets from will be the first to defend and show support for the antagonistic person… and yes, damn skippy it is likely to enrage the true victim to see their abuser (rather than themselves) treated with respect, validated in their need for attention, and duping those who the abuse survivor truly cares about (namely family members and mutual friends).

Some may have been conned by a narcissistic predator completely and truly have no earthly idea they are abusing you by defending a monster, blaming the victim, and engaging in abuse by proxy for them — but that is THEIR PROBLEM TO DEAL WITH — not yours. If a new love interest gets conned, be thankful they are willingly taking the Narcissist off your hands. Kids who align with a nasty or manipulative parent will figure it out eventually. Granted, the time it takes them to do that may cost THEM a healthy, functional and loving relationship with you, but if they are adults it is there free will choice. Some people refuse to listen so there is no point in wasting your breath or time trying to actively have a relationship with them.

Learn how to detach. Go Zen.

After all, the Buddha was right when he came to the logical conclusion that desire is the cause of all suffering. Stop trying to please the Narcissist or save his current and prospective victims. But more importantly, stop going back to the people who helped your abuser break you.

Stop thinking about what you HAD with a narcissist — including personal possessions and finances. Start thinking about what you have today — in hand — noting that with careful planning and time, everything in the world will be totally different for you a week, a year, and a decade after leaving them.

How different? That depends on you.

Ultimately, Narcissistic Abuse recovery is a choice. If you choose to stay actively engaged with dealing with them (out of greed or laziness yourself) be aware that abuse from a narcissistic person tends to get worse with time. They typically end up getting very good at mastering covert abuse during their thirties and forties. By the time they hit 50, they are in their personal and professional stride, experts at coercing, conniving, bullying, steering, manipulating, breaking laws, and functionally getting away daily with compulsive lying. Once they are in their 60s and 70s and their health, financial viability as a producer, or vitality starts to decline, look out! They tend to take their frustrations with themselves out on those closest to them (socially and emotionally).


What that means is, if you waste your productive and vital years trying to please them, chances are you will find yourself 40 and in the discard pile. If you hook up with them as a second or third spouse, you not only get nothing from their youth, you get nothing but stuck taking care of them through the duration of their senior years, namely the years they are most likely to be the least emotionally and socially supportive of a partner and also completely attention-suck all their time and emotional energy from them.

Then, one must factor in the toll on the physical body. One also has to understand that a parent who suffers from C-PTSD is not only likely to suffer with or die from illnesses directly caused by stress, they are also setting a role model for other family members, the community at large, friends, and children.

Now… understand the next statement is not in any way being shared as a critique or judgement.

Staying because you do not have the money to leave is a choice, nothing more. Staying for the kids — forcing THEM to witness you being abused — does nothing other than expose them to an active Abuser and an Enabler. It’s a bad choice in every circumstance, period. Any person who says otherwise is enabling victims to behave in selfish ways that are masochistic and brutally corrupt and distort the personalities of children.

People walk out of abusive relationships all the time. Some leave with the clothes on their back and nothing more. Many leave knowing they will be hunted and stalked sometimes for decades by angry, rejected, erotomaniac stalkers. Talking to them 10 years later, they lead happier lives and only regret not having left sooner. This is fact — not circumstantially dependent.

ANYONE can leave unless they are being held hostages. But even a kidnap victim will tell you this — the reason they survived is because they never lost hope or faith in the belief that they COULD not only escape but WOULD.

Men and women who care about doing the right thing for themselves and their family walk away every day. They feel the fear and do it anyway.

We know this sounds harsh. Be mad if you want, hearing, listening to it, or reading it — but understand, it’s nothing more than an assertion of provable, factual, non-disputable, rational truth. It is also one that helps people survive and get help for their children should they decide to play the role of “Co-Narcissist”. It’s something that needs to be pointed out to people who have severe C-PTSD or Stockholm Syndrome, especially — noting that in such cases, a person may stay because they don’t see escape as a possibility.

If you are reading this article and feeling hopeless, understand Narcissistic Abuse recovery is never “easy” What it is, however, is POSSIBLE.

Those who want to recover dedicate a block of time daily to reading about abuse recovery as well as strive to educate themselves about all forms of narcissism. They share news about how to heal, how to deal, and how to successfully recover.

They learn to spot the red flags and warning signs of people acting with a pervasive sense for narcissistic entitlement. But more importantly, when they see a person acting abusively towards themselves, another person, an animal, a system, a community, whatever they are not afraid to bring it up to the person. The true survivor, in essence, becomes a healer.

Narcissistic Abuse SURVIVORS break the silence with pride to honor all the men and women in world history who died. We speak for our children, on behalf of our children — even if and when our own kids have been so traumatized or victimized by entitlement-promoting abusers that they become conformist enablers themselves (or worse… develop their own personality disorders).

Keep the faith and educate. Take responsibility for your life and your own choices. Understand that you have the power to decide how you spend your free time as well as how you choose to live your life. Whether or not you are forced to deal with narcy people in your life matters not.

One of the coolest things about being a human is despite our biological limitations, each and every day we are all who and what we decide to be. Our experiences may influence us, but they are simply transient pressures impacting core natures.

Who you are at the core… what you are… by nature — not nurture — is at the heart of solving every abuse mystery. It truly comes down to something far less controversial than trying to sort out who is right and who is wrong when and if a high conflict situation rises up. If one person is the antagonist who sets karmic wheels in motion by pushing aside or shunting off someone on a course trajectory for living a positive life, they are the human being morally, ethically, and legally responsible for the disenfranchised person’s lack of welfar
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#3: December 22, 2015, 08:17:29 PM
In It, this is great! Thank you for helping others stay strong. 💃🏻❤️💪🏼
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Re: No Contact III
#4: January 27, 2016, 05:38:25 PM
You are welcome Velika
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#5: March 15, 2016, 03:59:33 PM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

P
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Re: No Contact III
#6: March 15, 2016, 09:45:26 PM
Just another "Thank you" Init, for posting important stuff about abuse recovery and how to be a role model, at least try to be, and become the best parent/friend during this time. Reading about it and listening about it to educate your self is vital. Knowledge is power!  8)

Hugs
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Re: No Contact III
#7: March 16, 2016, 06:57:39 AM
You are welcome Passi

In this age of technology NO CONTACT also means us not looking at their social media anything.  There is no reason to upset yourself more than you may be already. And block them by any means possible from them seeing yours.

As hard as it is do: Do not reply to emails texts or anything else.

It works both ways if you want to try to heal yourself up at all.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#8: March 16, 2016, 07:46:50 PM
Another "Thank You" being thrown your way In It.

I recall you asking me some time ago if I thought my spouse was "NPD", and I told you I didn't think so.  Truth is, I wasn't quite sure exactly what that was.  Now, I'm not so sure...

We didn't fight (then again, I am a conflict avoider...a "pleaser"), there was no physical abuse, we seemingly had a "normal" life...so I thought...

I was your typical "hen pecked" husband.  Only to the extreme.  I didn't really have a life outside of home or work.  If I wasn't home by x time on the dot, I had better have had a damn good reason.  I had no friends, because as she put it one time "since you work so much, your free time should be spent at home."  Here is a story that I might have told before in my own thread:  My next door neighbor use to come over a lot when I was outside working on cars (either my own, the kids, a friend of my wife's, etc)  One time he helped me change a convertible top to one of my cars.  Granted, I didn't ask him too (I am kind of a perfectionist and like doing things my self, because I am anal), but got it done and it came out perfect.  Sometime there after, he asked me to help him change the convertible on a car that he was working on.  She wouldn't let me.  MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.  Not like I was sneaking out "drinking with the guys", or I was who knows where doing who knows what....I would have been RIGHT NEXT DOOR.  As it turns out, he was doing it for an acquaintance of his to make some money (and he even offered to pay me), and it didn't come out so well.  Badly wrinkled.  He doesn't speak to me to this day because of it...

Anyway, needless to say...I have no friends.  I am quiet and shy sure, but not anti-social...I just never had any of my own, outside of "her" friends.

So, I've given up quite a bit.  Wrote everyone off in the divorce.  Lost family.  Lost friends.  Almost lost my sanity.  Looking back, her insecurities were so bad...but I didn't want to be alone, and I thought we were such a good fit.  Its pretty damn bad when you get yelled at it you don't look away from the TV when a lingerie commercial comes on.  How sad is that?

Anyway...I have since changed my mind, and think she is very NPD.  Its all about her needs, her wants, and her entitlement.

These days, I'm doing a lot better.  And I will NEVER...EVER let another woman control my life.  EVER.  I am all alone now in my house.  Although I miss my girls, and fear how they will end up when they are grown, its not in my control.  Aside from missing my girls, I am pretty damn happy.  I kind of dig being in MY house doing whatever the @#$% I WANT, and don't have to worry about getting permission, or whether I am going to step on someone's toes.

Sorry for the ramble.  Thanks again In It.

-T
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« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 07:50:09 PM by terrified_in_TN »

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Re: No Contact III
#9: March 16, 2016, 09:59:59 PM
No problem for the ramble T in TN

Sometimes it's easier to process if we can type it out and look at it.

Insecure people need to control other people.

That is pretty sad about getting yelled at for watching a commercial on TV. And about your neighbor.

NPD's have little tolerance for us doing things for others.

I'm pretty happy too and I miss my girls. And am concerned about the influence their father has over them. Not a damn thing I can do about it.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#10: March 17, 2016, 09:03:51 AM
terrified, you should so much like my XH.  Oddly though, I am the opposite of your W.
I encouraged him to do things without me always having to be at my side.  He just chose not to.

Good read InIt.   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: No Contact III
#11: March 17, 2016, 02:29:29 PM
Thanks T
The end of next month it will be close to three years nc for me. I finished my last hypnosis session today. I feel it is helping me heal.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

M
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Re: No Contact III
#12: March 17, 2016, 07:16:38 PM
I finished my last hypnosis session today. I feel it is helping me heal.
It's great to hear that the hypnosis sessions are helping you to heal but why was this your last session if they're helping?
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Re: No Contact III
#13: March 18, 2016, 02:47:20 AM
I can't afford to go anymore.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

M
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Re: No Contact III
#14: March 22, 2016, 10:45:47 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.
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Re: No Contact III
#15: March 29, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
Thanks MB...it's ok.

Found online:

The No Contact Rule: Everything You Need To Know About It


If you’ve been searching about information on breakups on the internet, then you’ve certainly come across the term no contact rule. It’s simple, you don’t contact your ex for a certain amount of time. However, it’s not an easy thing to do. In this article, you will find everything you need to know about the no contact rule.

What is The No Contact Rule?

The no contact rule simply means not contacting your ex. Let’s just assume your ex is a drug that you are addicted to and the only way you can stop addiction of this drug is go cold turkey. That’s exactly what you are doing here. You are going cold turkey on your ex. Because in many cases people are addicted to their ex and they do need a cold turkey approach to break their addiction. When you go no contact, it means

No Text Messages
No phone calls
No going over to their house
No accidentally bumping into them
No Facebook messages or IM of any kind
No contacting them via your mutual friends

No status messages on Facebook (or any other social media) which are obviously meant for them

It’s exactly like going cold turkey on something you are addicted to. You don’t let even a small dose of your ex into your life. Because even a small dose can get you addicted to your ex again.

Why Do No Contact?

As I mentioned before, it’s like breaking an addiction to your ex. You have to learn to live without him or her. And no contact is the best way to do it. But you might be wondering why should you learn to live without them if you want to get back with them. It’s because unless you learn to live without them you will always be needy and desperate whenever you see them or talk to them and that will make you look unattractive to your ex. Nobody wants to be with a needy and desperate person and if you want to get your ex back, you will have to become a happy and confident person.

To get more info about why you should do no contact, read this article.


What to do during no contact?


Live your life. Do everything you can to make yourself feel better. Be your own best friend and take care of yourself because no one else will do it for you. No contact is the time to make yourself a happy and confident person. You have to learn that you don’t need your ex to be happy. In fact, you don’t need your ex at all. You may want them but you don’t need them. There is a big difference between wanting something and needing something.

Of course, this change in perspective doesn’t come on it’s own. If you just sit around all day watching TV and eating ice cream, you are not going to feel better about yourself. That is why there are three categories of things that are mandatory during the no contact rule.

1. Physical Activity

The no. 1 most important thing you must do during the no contact period is some physical activity. There are many reasons for this. It releases endorphins that make you feel better. It will get you in shape, which will again make you feel better. And it will show if you want to meet your ex after the no contact period is over.

I recommend some sort of physical activity at least every alternate day. You can do tons of things including

Yoga
Gym
Any type of Sports that you enjoy
Crossfit
Jogging

2. Social Activities

Even though every cell in your body wants to stay home alone and feel miserable for yourself, you have to force yourself to go out and have a good time with your friends. Your friends will make you realize that you are still loved and wanted by them. No matter what happens, you have your friends and family with you and that is something you should definitely appreciate.

You are also encouraged to go out on a date during the no contact period.  You don’t really have to jump into a relationship right away, but a few dates will give you an ego boost that will definitely help in the long run.

3. Relaxing Activities


The third important category of things you must do during this time is something relaxing. You are going through a hard time in your life and you are trying your best to cope with it. Why don’t you reward yourself with some relaxation? You can do a lot of things to relax; some examples are

Yoga (serves Dual Purpose)
Meditation
Spa
Massage
A Relaxing Bath

What To Avoid During The No Contact Period?


You also have to be careful during the no contact period of certain things you need to avoid. This section is here as a warning sign because it is very easy to fall in this trap and just spend the entire no contact without making any progress in your life.

1. Obsessing Over Your Ex

You are not helping yourself if you are watching every movement of your ex.
It’s one thing to think about your ex every once in a while, it’s another to check your ex’s Facebook page the first thing in the morning and then keep on checking it every half hour through out the day. If you find yourself obsessing over her/him, then you need to take a step back and realize why you are doing this. A lot of people think the MAIN OBJECTIVE of no contact is that it will make their ex miss them and want them back.

You have to understand that even if your ex starts to miss you during the no contact and they contact you, they will easily pick up on your neediness and the fact that you are obsessed about them. And when they do, they will again lose their attraction.

You have to use the no contact period to stop the addiction of your ex. And as mentioned before, the only way to do it is go cold turkey. If you are checking your ex’s facebook everyday, then you must remove the source that is giving you a little dose of your ex everyday. In this case, it’s facebook. Delete your ex from your facebook or deactivate your account for a month.

2. Indulging in alcohol, drugs, cigarettes etc.


It’s easy to cover up your pain with alcohol or drugs. But it doesn’t heal anything and it will not make you feel better in the long run. It’s like putting bandage over a broken bone. It’s OK to drink once in a while, but if you are making it a habit, you are just decreasing your chances of getting back together. You are just replacing one addiction (your ex) with another. No ex will take you back once you become an addict.

Also, if you ever go out drinking with your friends, make sure you give the phone to your friends so as not to drunk dial your ex and make a fool of yourself.

How Long For No Contact?

It really depends on the type of breakup you had and how much desperate and needy you have been since the breakup. But I recommend a minimum of at least 30 days. However, if you think your breakup was exceptionally bad then you can go to 60 days or even 90 days.

What If You Break The No Contact Rule?

If you break the no contact rule, then it is highly recommended you start all over again. It’s just like breaking an addiction, if somewhere along the way you slip and start using drugs, then it’s better to stop it again and go cold turkey all over again.

Since the drug over here is your ex, and you are only suppose to go cold turkey for a month, that’s why you have to start the no contact rule from day 1 if you break it for whatever reason. The goal here is to prove to yourself that you can go without your ex for at least 30 days.

What if your ex contacts you? Does it count as breaking the no contact rule?
If your ex contacts you, it doesn’t count as breaking the no contact rule. However, if you respond to them, it is considered breaking the no contact rule. You are not to pick up their calls, text them or return their calls.

Of course, in case of emergencies, you can respond. But even in that case, the conversation should be strictly on the topic of emergency and nothing personal.

What if you have a child together?


If you and your ex have a child together, then you obviously can’t avoid meeting them for a long time. But you can still maintain no contact in this situation provided you follow a few rules.

You are not allowed to talk to your ex on any topic other than your child.
Whenever you see them; be amicable and treat them like an acquaintance you are in good terms with.
Never talk about your personal feelings or anything that is going in your life. Doing so is breaking the no contact rule.
Never badmouth your ex to your child. That’s just bad parenting.

What if you live together?


If you two live together, then I am sorry to tell you but your chances of getting back together are very less until you move out. Your ex is not going to miss you if they see you everyday. So, the best course of action will be to pack everything up and leave as soon as possible. However, in certain situations it is very hard to leave. In this case, make sure you follow the following rules for no contact.

Make sure you have a separate room. Make your own space and stay as much as possible in your own room.
Be a good roommate. You can talk about stuff related to household, but never about personal feelings. Not until the no contact period is over.
Don’t be a jerk and don’t put up with your ex if he/she is being a jerk. If they can’t handle being roommates with their ex, then it’s better for both of you to come up with a solution and live separately.

The Essence Of No Contact Rule

Think of the no contact rule as a detox for your mind and soul. In the end, it will be extremely difficult. In fact, the moment you decide to stop contact with your ex, you will have a sudden unbearable urge to call them immediately. That’s completely normal. Just remember, that urge is not because of the love you have for your ex, it’s because you mind and your soul are addicted to your ex, and you are just going through the withdrawal symptoms.

During the no contact period, your mind will try to play tricks on you. It will come in strong urges to call them or text them, to manipulative thoughts like “Just one text is not going to do any harm”, or “Maybe I’ll just check their Facebook page and say what’s up”. That’s a slippery slope. Remember, your mind will try anything to get a dose of your ex, simply because it’s addicted to it. And it is a master of manipulation. It knows all your weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and it’s going to use them against you.

But you have to stay strong. You have to understand that you are not your mind. You have to become more powerful than those urges that you feel to contact your ex. Remember, your mind is hurt and it’s going through withdrawal, you have to treat it gently but not give in to the temptations. Do everything in your power to make yourself feel better, just remember that contacting your ex is not going to do it. If you contact your ex before the end of no contact, you are just going to make yourself feel worse and hurt your chances of getting back together.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#16: April 12, 2016, 06:30:57 PM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

h
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Re: No Contact III
#17: April 12, 2016, 10:30:51 PM
Just wondering if the 'No contact' post that In It found online isn't a bit simplified for us here at HS.  It really makes the ex a concept to be battled against and overcome.  Something feels wrong about that.

There is some good advice about getting a life and not drinking to cover up the pain etc, but I personally wanted to belt anyone that suggested I force myself to go out and be happy with friends or even worse, date to boost my fledgling ego.

It's kind of contradictory when it tells you to love yourself and go easy but understand that your mind is sneaky and will try and trick you.  That's too much to worry about.  No one is good at this right off the bat and most lessons are learned painfully and personally, not by osmosis.
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BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved home again March 2020
Moved out July 2017
Moved home March 2020
D21, D19 and S17

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Re: No Contact III
#18: April 13, 2016, 03:15:37 AM
Well for me it was more listening to my heart and not my head.
It became way too painful for me to continue any kind of interaction with the ex..and that was the months following BD and D.I kept doing it because I wanted the family together again so badly. And thought I was dealing with his MLC.

Going back post D was an even bigger mistake. His game playing lack of communication and escalated bazaar behavior and continued abuse was impossible to deal with.

Then with me leaving again and the DV incident made the decision for me.

I don't look at NC as battling againest him I look at it as battling for me.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#19: May 22, 2016, 04:51:09 AM
I agree with a lot of this, but not the part about living together making it less likely they come back.

IF your spouse is not abusive living together is the best position you can be in.  If you are doing your mirror work and making good changes in yourself your spouse gets a ringside seat.

Changes such as growing independent, strong and living your life.  Detaching from any drama.  Putting your needs above theirs.  Co-parenting in a healthy manner.
JMHO   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: No Contact III
#20: May 22, 2016, 05:02:45 AM
T- IMHO that's a pretty big IF.

 If there's anyone who might read this who is still living with an MLCer they are more than likely are being abused in some way shape or form.

I'm of the opinion the ONLY way you can make changes that last..detach from the drama and experience self compassion and self love, gain your independence and get strong is to be physically away from them.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#21: May 22, 2016, 05:11:50 AM
That could very well be, InIt.

I guess it just depends on the relationship and the type of MLCer you have.
I've found most Low Energy MLCer's don't Monster or abuse much, there is just more depression going on.

Like I told someone yesterday, a friend of mine had a H who lived in the basement and had nothing to do with the family for the longest time, but he eventually came out of it.  She just lived her life and ignored him.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: No Contact III
#22: May 22, 2016, 05:26:25 AM
Quote
If there's anyone who might read this who is still living with an MLCer they are more than likely are being abused in some way shape or form.

Init - I am the antithesis of this statement. My H has never left and he is not a wallower. He vowed he would never leave and even RCR believed this. He showed monster like all MLCers in the first year or so and that included flaunting and taunting me with OW. 

However at the risk of sounding like a broken record, UK Law prevents a spouse from evicting the other from a home if they are joint owners or tenants in common.  I asked him to leave and he refused. He then insisted on selling the house and I refused.  The law protected us both.

If a spouse leaves and does not return within the 6 month period then the law is clear - that person has forfeited the right of access but not the ownership. 

So was I abused? Not when I had found my feet and learned how to focus on me.  I went dark and "fixed" me - used truth darts and validation and then created my own life and detached.  Now we live like joint tenants - separate lives but we are cordial and indeed H has been showing more consideration of late.

If I had left the house which of course was a viable option I would have lost it for good and I know H was then after as much money as he could.  Now he has agreed that when we sell and I find a place of my own that I will have 70% of the equity because I will be the focus point for all our children and grandchildren and he has told the daughters that he wants me to have a good place and will forfeit part of his equity.

Of course none of this means anything until it becomes legal but so far whatever H has said over the last two years regarding the house and me he has stuck to.  He knows now that his Ds will also hold him to it and as he is beginning to reconnect with them - to renege on that would jeopardise everything he has done so in reconnecting.  Believe me the girls have made it very clear what they expect of him when considering me and the sale of the house.

Are the low energy replayers aka wallowers who also live at home abusing the LBS?

Unfortunately abuse like beauty is sometimes in the eye of the beholder and each of us has different levels of tolerance.  Look at ITL whose H assaulted her. She decided not to file charges and at the moment her H seems to be quieter and has expressed a degree of regret. Will he do it again? Who knows but she is in charge of her thinking because only she "knows" her H and what she can tolerate. To me it is abuse and physical contact of that nature is my line in the sand. For others it is the adultery. For others it is the snide, subtle verbal insults.

 
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BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017.
Separated 2022 (my choice because he wanted to live alone) and yet fully reconnected seeing each other often.

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Re: No Contact III
#23: May 22, 2016, 06:07:05 AM
Its true..abuse is like beauty ..in the eye of the beholder.I look at neglect as abuse too.

And if physical abused is tolerated it will escalate. And if some one has self respect and had a healthy example of what to do in that case ( I didn't as a child) my mother didnt have any of her husbands ( my stepfathers) arrested.
The safest place to be is away from that.

I'm happy your arrangements are working for you. If someone doesnt want to work it out (here in NYS anyway) they do not have to. There are no laws that require it.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#24: May 22, 2016, 01:05:28 PM

And if physical abused is tolerated it will escalate. And if some one has self respect and had a healthy example of what to do in that case ( I didn't as a child) my mother didnt have any of her husbands ( my stepfathers) arrested.
The safest place to be is away from that.

in it
You might find it hard to believe but I do actually possess quite a large amount of self respect.

I have also let him know, in no uncertain terms, that there is absolutely NO way he will get away with it, should he even attempt to lay a finger on me again. He is also informed him that I spoke to my (our) PO friend and that I was at the hospital twice. I do understand and very much appreciate that everyone was concerned for my safety as I would definitely have given the same advice to anybody else. Strangely enough, the only person who advised me not to file against him was my best friend, with whom I came together to this country in 1981. Both of us have always lived in the same city so she knows him very well.
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MLCer: 57 (when he left in April 2017)
Together since: 1986
Married: No
Children:No
Begin of P`s MLC: around Spring 2010 with breaks inbetween when he behaved like his pre MLC self.
OW: YES , he`s living together with an old spinster who just happens to live up the road.
Animals: 1 doggie, belongs to both of us but MLCers has abandoned him too.

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Re: No Contact III
#25: May 22, 2016, 01:29:51 PM
I tolerated the physical abuse for years.  Mainly bruising ..or hit me where it wouldn't show. Choked me one time..not long enough to leave bruises. ( Lost his job due to choking his supervisor)

It wasn't constant but enough that I sometimes knew when it might happen..it really had no pattern..years in between incidences.

 I thought I possessed a great deal of self respect too. There were all kinds of reasons I didn't call the cops on him. I found out all that ended up doing was enabling him to ramp up the behavior as he suffered no consequences.

After one of these fights (before the marriage and after) ..... I always went back.  He didn't ever apologize.  No gifts or overtures from him were made. Again my FOO issues played a part in all of it.

So this time I finally considered myself sick too. I read all about why some woman tolerate this kind of abuse. Sat there and read all about me on the internet.

 Now I've decided I deserve to be treated better than that.

One trip to the hospital is what it took for me to get it through my head this guy simply isn't screwed on too tight. I wouldn't trust him again any further than I could throw him. I literally didn't see that one coming. Real cowards move on his part.

I will not send my daughters the message that what happened to me was OK.

Violence isn't used because they lost control of themselves. It's because they are trying to take control of someone else.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#26: October 19, 2016, 05:56:43 PM
bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#27: October 19, 2016, 06:07:33 PM
 Found online:



                                                                       No Contact Rule

                                                          Cutting Out the Ex and Moving Forward

Healthy people who experience a relationship break up generally experience universal stages of grief such as anger, sadness, and disappointment. Eventually they come to accept the loss and move forward.

For love addicts, moving on from a broken relationship literally feels like a dreadful insurmountable ordeal. The agonizing feelings go beyond normal grief— as they are in withdrawal from the love addiction. Accepting the fantasy has crumbled, and moving forward seems unbearable.

And so it goes-- the only seemingly viable option for a love addict is to run from the pain by creating ANY form of contact with their ex partner no matter how bad the relationship was. This is the sickness of love addiction. 

If you are a love addict going through a break up and are in withdrawal --- it is imperative to realize your healing begins with cutting your drug of choice (your ex) cold turkey - in spite of all the distortions and self-sabotaging voices going on in your mind.

Healing starts with a personal pledge to the No Contact Rule.

If you are in a break up and have love addiction,  cutting complete contact with your ex is a critical prerequisite to your recovery.

MAINTAINING CONTACT- ANY CONTACT WITH YOUR EX- KEEPS YOU STUCK IN A TOXIC JAM- IT GUARANTEES THE PAIN WILL CONTINUE- IT IMMOBILIZES YOU MOVING FORWARD- IT PUTS TO A STAND STILL THE CHANCE FOR YOU TO RECOVER FROM YOUR LOVE ADDICTION.

If you truly want the pain to heal and get back your sanity. you need to STOP acting out your addiction by breaking ANY, and ALL contact with your ex.

The No Contact Rule is a strategy of detaching yourself 100% from your addiction/ ex partner both emotionally and physically--- at all costs.

Look at it this way--- it is like any other addict wanting to break from their addition.

It is equivalent to a drug addict choosing to totally break from their ecstasy, cocaine or heroin- or a recovering alcoholic no longer reaching for a shot of vodka, no longer going to bars or stopping the a local liquor store and doing it for the sake of the addicts sanity, wanting to get back their sense of self.

No Contact for love addicts means no more seeking that swig of the bottle or "hit" of heroin? except when you are addicted to love, your drug is your ex---- and detaching from the addiction with a knowing that if you do, it will always follow a poisonous and unhealthy outcome.

Like a heroin addict, you "hit the pipe" for each and every contact you have with your ex, and keep trapped in your addiction.

No Contact means-- No texting, No calling, No Face booking , No emailing, No twittering, No triangular communication through a friend, No small talk, No nice talk, No how are you, No checking on his/her whereabouts, and No more excuses.

Committing to the No Contact Rule represents no longer choosing the same old destructive pattern-- no more fueling your ex partners wants and needs, while disregarding your own.

NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT, ANY CONTACT, PERIOD.

When your ex partner contacts you
 
If, or better yet when-- your ex partner attempts to open the door by contacting you, urging you to bite for the those tiny little crumbs which you have gobbled up for much-much too long-- you say NO, NO, NO, period!

You must refuse to get hoodwinked with his/her drama, self-pity, charm, charisma, seduction tactics, words or promises only to be hurt again and again. You cannot allow it.

When he/she attempts to call, text or email you --- you must choose NOT to respond or answer. You say NO way, NO more--- STOP. You say it is over. You hang up. You disconnect. You physically leave the scene. You detach. You say Good-bye.

You close the door tight. In fact, you forcefully slam the door shut and dead-bolt it ten times and throw away the keys.

When you keep the connection going contact -- you put yourself in a less than position - you put him/her on a false pedestal making him/her your higher power. Your ex is not a God or Goddess. Knock him/her off that fictitious pedestal.

No Contact is about setting healthy boundaries.


The foundation of the No Contact Rule is about setting healthy boundaries. The purpose of setting boundaries is to define your limits. Setting a healthy boundary signifies taking a stand for you, protecting yourself, and taking care of yourself.

No Contact is a boundary rule and is a critical aspect to your recovery and of freeing yourself from toxic relationship patterns.

No Contact is unequivocal and clear-cut with-- NO loopholes -- NO excuses.

Is applying the No Contact Rule permanent?

Well, if the relationship has been a definite addiction; if it was dysfunctional, toxic, unhealthy, hurtful; if your partner had a pattern of being verbally or physically abusive, disrespectful, manipulating and/or indifferent to your feelings, wants and needs— then absolutely!-- detachment must be permanent.

Moreover, the permanency is especially true if you are sick and tired of the pain of being so dependent on one person-- and truly desire an authentic, fulfilling relationship in your future. * If you have kids with your ex, permanent No Contact is likely not possible when your ex has a relationship with them.

Keeping the addiction going will surely keep you stay stuck in your love addiction and for each and every contact, you immediately go back to square one. Every contact with your ex is equivalent to putting a knife into your chest — then pouring salt on the open wound, it hurts.

Like Love Addiction... No Contact is serious business

Let's be honest--  No Contact is definitely not easy or painless. Love addiction is bad in many ways. The experience of withdrawing and cutting your ex off is an arduous consequence of having been in an addictive relationship. It feels impossible. It can feel like torture. It can even feel like death.

It is no doubt the most difficult challenge in this beginning stage of recovery.

Yet, you must be assured, you can and will survive. It pays off in the end. If you act- there is light ahead. All the twisted obsessions, distortions, and confusing thoughts want to convince you that you cannot live without your ex partner; that he/she was your soul mate, the magical one. It is not reality. Do not believe it.

Understand this---all the irrational obsessive thoughts in your head are nothing but your addiction talking. The voices of addiction are always full of deceitfulness, lies, and manipulations.

Get it in your head your ex toxic to you. Your ex is not the answer. Your value, worth and existence is not based on someone else. Do not accept the falsehood that he/she is the answer to your problems- NOT true; never has been.

Discovering to honor who you are as a human being, honoring your personal wants and needs, and learning to love you is the answer to your problems.

Again, the longer you take the "hits" of contact, the more you feed the fix, and the longer you put your recovery at a complete stand still. So move forward wisely.

The No Contact Rule is a critical step to heal and get past the pain. Adhere to the No Contact Rule with a fighting attitude, and an acknowledgement, that you deserve better and are finished settling for less.

Draw a line in the sand, and declare to yourself, "No More"! And once you do- reach out for support and leap the worthy path of recovery.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

W
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Re: No Contact III
#28: October 20, 2016, 07:38:03 PM
Init, I swear my W has followed this exactly. I have read a lot since BD and her behavior mimics NC on me. Thinking back over the past 16 months since BD, I believe, if MIL nor I never forced the issue I believe NC would continue uninterrupted. I went 35 days NC in the summer and W did not blink. Maybe she really views me as the toxic one.

 I am staying NC. MIL will force her daughter to break her NC eventually. It will be interesting to see if the pattern continues. I was home exactly 50 days this last stint. I calculated 21 hours of interaction and that includes the bad stuff. I think that says it all.
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Re: No Contact III
#29: October 20, 2016, 08:22:48 PM
The relationship itself is toxic. You have to focus on you and what is best for you. NC will restore your peace and sanity and allow things to unfold it their own way. 
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#30: November 23, 2016, 06:52:24 AM
The holidays are coming..if things have been less that peaceful in your life consider trying no contact for the next few days.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#31: November 24, 2016, 05:44:59 AM
bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#32: December 07, 2016, 04:37:17 PM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#33: December 07, 2016, 04:51:53 PM
Found online


No Contact Rule

Cutting Out the Ex and Moving Forward
Healthy people who experience a relationship break up generally experience universal stages of grief such as anger, sadness, and disappointment. Eventually they come to accept the loss and move forward.

For love addicts, moving on from a broken relationship literally feels like a dreadful insurmountable ordeal. The agonizing feelings go beyond normal grief— as they are in withdrawal from the love addiction. Accepting the fantasy has crumbled, and moving forward seems unbearable.

And so it goes-- the only seemingly viable option for a love addict is to run from the pain by creating ANY form of contact with their ex partner no matter how bad the relationship was. This is the sickness of love addiction. 

If you are a love addict going through a break up and are in withdrawal --- it is imperative to realize your healing begins with cutting your drug of choice (your ex) cold turkey - in spite of all the distortions and self-sabotaging voices going on in your mind.

Healing starts with a personal pledge to the No Contact Rule.

If you are in a break up and have love addiction,  cutting complete contact with your ex is a critical prerequisite to your recovery.

MAINTAINING CONTACT- ANY CONTACT WITH YOUR EX- KEEPS YOU STUCK IN A TOXIC JAM- IT GUARANTEES THE PAIN WILL CONTINUE- IT IMMOBILIZES YOU MOVING FORWARD- IT PUTS TO A STAND STILL THE CHANCE FOR YOU TO RECOVER FROM YOUR LOVE ADDICTION.

If you truly want the pain to heal and get back your sanity. you need to STOP acting out your addiction by breaking ANY, and ALL contact with your ex.

The No Contact Rule is a strategy of detaching yourself 100% from your addiction/ ex partner both emotionally and physically--- at all costs.

Look at it this way--- it is like any other addict wanting to break from their addition.

It is equivalent to a drug addict choosing to totally break from their ecstasy, cocaine or heroin- or a recovering alcoholic no longer reaching for a shot of vodka, no longer going to bars or stopping the a local liquor store and doing it for the sake of the addicts sanity, wanting to get back their sense of self.

No Contact for love addicts means no more seeking that swig of the bottle or "hit" of heroin? except when you are addicted to love, your drug is your ex---- and detaching from the addiction with a knowing that if you do, it will always follow a poisonous and unhealthy outcome.

Like a heroin addict, you "hit the pipe" for each and every contact you have with your ex, and keep trapped in your addiction.

No Contact means-- No texting, No calling, No Face booking , No emailing, No twittering, No triangular communication through a friend, No small talk, No nice talk, No how are you, No checking on his/her whereabouts, and No more excuses.

Committing to the No Contact Rule represents no longer choosing the same old destructive pattern-- no more fueling your ex partners wants and needs, while disregarding your own.

NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT, ANY CONTACT, PERIOD.


When your ex partner contacts you
 
If, or better yet when-- your ex partner attempts to open the door by contacting you, urging you to bite for the those tiny little crumbs which you have gobbled up for much-much too long-- you say NO, NO, NO, period!

You must refuse to get hoodwinked with his/her drama, self-pity, charm, charisma, seduction tactics, words or promises only to be hurt again and again. You cannot allow it.

When he/she attempts to call, text or email you --- you must choose NOT to respond or answer. You say NO way, NO more--- STOP. You say it is over. You hang up. You disconnect. You physically leave the scene. You detach. You say Good-bye.

You close the door tight. In fact, you forcefully slam the door shut and dead-bolt it ten times and throw away the keys.

When you keep the connection going contact -- you put yourself in a less than position - you put him/her on a false pedestal making him/her your higher power. Your ex is not a God or Goddess. Knock him/her off that fictitious pedestal.

No Contact is about setting healthy boundaries.


The foundation of the No Contact Rule is about setting healthy boundaries. The purpose of setting boundaries is to define your limits. Setting a healthy boundary signifies taking a stand for you, protecting yourself, and taking care of yourself.

No Contact is a boundary rule and is a critical aspect to your recovery and of freeing yourself from toxic relationship patterns.

No Contact is unequivocal and clear-cut with-- NO loopholes -- NO excuses.

Is applying the No Contact Rule permanent?

Well, if the relationship has been a definite addiction; if it was dysfunctional, toxic, unhealthy, hurtful; if your partner had a pattern of being verbally or physically abusive, disrespectful, manipulating and/or indifferent to your feelings, wants and needs— then absolutely!-- detachment must be permanent.

Moreover, the permanency is especially true if you are sick and tired of the pain of being so dependent on one person-- and truly desire an authentic, fulfilling relationship in your future. * If you have kids with your ex, permanent No Contact is likely not possible when your ex has a relationship with them.

Keeping the addiction going will surely keep you stay stuck in your love addiction and for each and every contact, you immediately go back to square one. Every contact with your ex is equivalent to putting a knife into your chest — then pouring salt on the open wound, it hurts.

Like Love Addiction... No Contact is serious business

Let's be honest--  No Contact is definitely not easy or painless. Love addiction is bad in many ways. The experience of withdrawing and cutting your ex off is an arduous consequence of having been in an addictive relationship. It feels impossible. It can feel like torture. It can even feel like death.

It is no doubt the most difficult challenge in this beginning stage of recovery.

Yet, you must be assured, you can and will survive. It pays off in the end. If you act- there is light ahead. All the twisted obsessions, distortions, and confusing thoughts want to convince you that you cannot live without your ex partner; that he/she was your soul mate, the magical one. It is not reality. Do not believe it.

Understand this---all the irrational obsessive thoughts in your head are nothing but your addiction talking. The voices of addiction are always full of deceitfulness, lies, and manipulations.

Get it in your head your ex toxic to you. Your ex is not the answer. Your value, worth and existence is not based on someone else. Do not accept the falsehood that he/she is the answer to your problems- NOT true; never has been.

Discovering to honor who you are as a human being, honoring your personal wants and needs, and learning to love you is the answer to your problems.

Again, the longer you take the "hits" of contact, the more you feed the fix, and the longer you put your recovery at a complete stand still. So move forward wisely.

The No Contact Rule is a critical step to heal and get past the pain. Adhere to the No Contact Rule with a fighting attitude, and an acknowledgement, that you deserve better and are finished settling for less.

Draw a line in the sand, and declare to yourself, "No More"! And once you do- reach out for support and leap the worthy path of recovery.
  • Logged
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

W
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  • Posts: 5664
Re: No Contact III
#34: December 07, 2016, 04:52:26 PM
I have to admit that I wrestled over Thanksgiving but I held my ground in the end and enjoyed my day. For Christmas I am not bending and my confidence is high. This is her holiday. Last year she texted me at 4am Christmas morning to get home and I obliged. I'm over the holiday hurdle. She's not getting another one out of me under these circumstances. New Years is her next biggie. She was in bed by 9pm last year. This New Years is all mine. I think that I deserve to have some fun  :)
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Re: No Contact III
#35: December 07, 2016, 05:18:27 PM
Yes you do deserve some fun.

No Watcher for Christmas or New years for 2017.. 8)
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« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 05:27:17 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#36: December 07, 2016, 06:20:26 PM
Hmm, interesting. I want to be NC but boy do I suck at it. It is like an addiction :(

I am going to try harder!
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Re: No Contact III
#37: December 07, 2016, 06:55:41 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Good for you !! Like anything it takes practice.

It isn't easy and sometimes it takes quite a few negative (toxic) encounters that you finally say to yourself that you do not need nor want whatever this person has to offer. Enough is Enough.

If you do not feel supported, heard and loved when you are done with most of the conversations? You are having a one sided relationship.

No contact means: You respect yourself enough that you will not listen to it. You feel no need to respond to it. You will not enable disrespectful behavior..

Whether it's drama or monster or trying to manipulate you...it all stops with NC.

 You deserve to be treated better.  You can do it!
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#38: December 07, 2016, 07:14:25 PM
Tkeybel,

It does take time. I started in August then went back home for 6 weeks, had that final toxic encounter and have been solid since mid October. We have had 1 school function and greeted each other. That was our interaction thus far. I'm fine with not seeing her. That desire has been curbed.

I struggle with the emails. It is such a tempting nasty habit that I have. I'm good about  not sending them but that strong desire to start trouble with her is so still there. And the desire is strong. I want to fight and just tell her off already for these past 18 months. If I send it, then I know she wins. That's what she expects.

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Re: No Contact III
#39: December 17, 2016, 05:11:30 PM
Yep right at the end I wrote an email that covered the 28 years I spent trying to get through to the ex..I didn't send it..type it out, print it out, read it out loud, whatever you have to do but don't send it.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#40: December 17, 2016, 05:37:20 PM
In it---I agree with you.  I am staying far away from H and OW.  I wish them joy and happiness, but I need to live my life for my children and grandchildren.  H is missing so much.  H is with a child, it is petaphilish and I is not in my belief .  H is very sick right now, but I am the better person for my children.  God Bless us all and the MLC'ers can live their dream.  We all have to live ours, with the grace of the Lord.
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Re: No Contact III
#41: December 17, 2016, 05:58:41 PM
Strength..your thread is so painful I can't even follow it. I tried. God bless you and yours.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

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Re: No Contact III
#42: December 21, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
Found online:


Give Yourself a Gift This Holiday Season: A Lesson in No Contact

The holidays are a great occasion to spend time with family, friends and loved ones, but they can also be a time of great loneliness, emotional despair and temptation.

Watching other couples bask in their festive glow, being merry and exchanging gifts, can be pretty heart wrenching, especially when you are all alone and nursing your emotional wounds.

It’s at this time, that what we want most of all, is to have someone that cares about us and someone to spend the holidays with. Everyone wants to be missed and have someone thinking about them.

When we’ve made the decision to go No Contact, we’ve made it for a very good reason. When we realize that our relationship is unhealthy, toxic and dysfunctional, full of drama and causes us a great deal of heartache and pain, No contact is the only viable option we have to regain control of our lives and our sanity. It’s a drastic step, but one that needs to be made when a relationship just doesn’t seem to have an ending. But during the holidays, even the most militant advocates of No Contact, can be vulnerable.

To a Narcissist, the holidays are like the opening of hunting season. These skillful predators, know exactly the right duck calls to put out there, to illicit the response they’re looking for. They are looking for a way back into your life and the holidays give them that perfect excuse to make innocent, friendly contact.

Because let’s face it, Narcissists don’t want to be alone for the holidays either.

I had an experience recently, with a former boomerang Narcissist, that provided the inspiration for this blog. I received an email in early November. It was short and sweet and went something like this:

“Hey Sav, I’ve been thinking about you a lot lately. I hope all is well. I miss you.”

While this may sound innocent enough, sweet even, but like most people that have been involved with Narcissists, I’ve seen this production of his before. The first time I was surprised by his behavior, the second time I was surprised, but by now I know what he wants and how this story turns out.

Don’t mistake this kind of  reaching out, as flattery. All too often we think that after a period of time has gone by and someone contacts us, that they’ve been thinking of us, missing us even. But if we take our ego out of the equation, it’s actually pretty insulting when you think about it.

It’s insulting because, if you look at the reasons he’s making contact – he wants to weasel his way back into my life and have a pseudo relationship, all on his terms. He wants the benefits of being ‘my boyfriend,’ without actually being my boyfriend and he actually thinks that I am naive enough, or foolish enough to fall for his ruse again. And for all I know, he probably sent the same feelers out there, to a bunch of other women.

Just like a duck hunter doesn’t care precisely what duck his calls attract, neither does a Narcissist. So regardless of how sweet and innocent their contact may sound, always remember there is a motive behind it. Narcissists aren’t looking to catch up and be friends. Narcissists don’t care about you, your life, or how much their making contact again will hurt you. All they are thinking about is themselves.

If you are in No Contact, stay in No Contact, irrespective of how sweet and thoughtful their message may appear. A duck hunter isn’t going to make the sound of a wolf, or a fox, when he wants to catch a duck. They are going to put on the best duck facade possible. What they want is to find a chink in your armor, because they know once they’re in, even a little, that they can chip away at your defenses. That’s what they do. So the key is, to not let them in – even a little.

If you respond nicely – they believe you still want them and they’re in.

If you respond meanly – they believe you still want them and they’re in.

But if you don’t respond at all – ever – you send a crystal, clear message that you are done with this game and they need to take you out of their batting rotation – permanently.

No contact is necessary because these clowns don’t comprehend the concept of boundaries, or friendship. If you engage, you will always lose and end up feeling duped and conned all over again.

If they were honest enough to tell you their true motivation, out of the gate, you’d have no interest in engaging with them what-so-ever. If my Narcissist was given some magical truth telling serum and we had an honest to God conversation it would go something like this:

You: What do you want?

Narc: You know what I want. I want you to love me and give me all of your affection and attention. I want all of the benefits of being with you, without being with you. I want you to be pining for me and available for me whenever I decide to come around. I want you to have no expectations of me and to accept the few crumbs I throw your way.

You: Yeah I’m not interested in that.

Narc: I know, but I don’t really care about what you want. You should know by now that this is all about me and it always will be. I want what I want when I want it, and I want you to be back in the batting rotation, so let me in.

You: I don’t think so.

Narc: I know you’ve built up this great barrier to keep me out, but if you let me in just a little, you know I’ll break down your defenses and get what I want.

You: I know. That’s why I’m not letting you in.

Narc: You know I’ll just keep trying.

You: Knock yourself out. You won’t get anywhere.

Narc: You know I always get what I want.

You: Not anymore.

When a Narcissist says ‘I miss you,’ what it really means is, I wish I could be with you, but something is preventing it. (Like me)
 I’m thinking about you (But only at this minute, because I might be thinking about someone else tomorrow)

The truth is- it means nothing. It’s one of those phrases that women give way too much importance to. What it means is, you’re on my mind for now and I’m looking for a way in, but I’m not willing or prepared to seriously do anything about it and it’s just ambiguous enough to free me from any responsibility or expectations you may have.

So knowing that, I didn’t respond to his email and I promptly deleted the message and went about my business, but low and behold, just a few days ago, another message pops into my inbox from Captain Boomerang. All I kept thinking was, ‘don’t you know I’m not interested. Don’t you know I write blogs warning people about guys like you?’

We’ve been in no contact for a long, long time. What I had forgotten was the entitlement mentality of a Narcissist. He is probably sitting there dumbfounded and unable to figure out, why I won’t speak to someone, as special, as he is. Did I mention that his email came with a picture of his chiseled body and flexed biceps? It really did.

You see, it doesn’t matter how much time has passed, or even the manner in which you parted, they will come back whenever they feel like it, waving the banner of friendship.

So when the second email came in, I didn’t open it. I stared it down, the way a recovering alcoholic stares down a drink. I was curious, for sure. A part of me wanted to know what he had to say and I could have come up with a thousand rationalizations to open it, but in the end, I realized I had absolutely nothing to gain, by anything he had to say, and it went immediately to trash.

There are always going to be excuses we can give ourselves to accept, or even initiate contact. But at some point you have to draw the line in the sand and say, ‘No more. You’ve shown me again and again, who you really are and I won’t be fooled again.’

“When you know better, you do better.” Oprah Winfrey

You can care about someone and at the same time know that they don’t belong in your life. I had a reader most eloquently state, “I don’t hate myself when I’m not with him.” That’s what not breaking No Contact is all about.

Breaking No Contact is like putting in a lot of time and effort into eating right and exercising and then telling yourself you’re just going to splurge this one time. And then one day turns into two, then three, then four and suddenly you realize, that all your hard work was for naught, and you’re right back to where you started from, feeling worse because you allowed yourself to be conned again.

I felt a sense of empowerment, as I clicked on the delete button to his email. As I watched it vanish off of my screen forever, I thought of the character Samantha, from Sex in the City, as she said goodbye to her lover Smith, she said, “I love you baby, but I love me more.”
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Re: No Contact III
#43: January 07, 2017, 11:26:07 AM
Found online:


No Contact
Going "No Contact" means cutting off all forms of correspondence, communication and personal contact with a person who suffers from a personality disorder in order to protect yourself from recurring abuse.

There aren't many long term solutions for dealing with a person with a personality disorder. Going No Contact (NC) is a solution that is sometimes necessary to prevent recurring abuse.

Going No Contact is an example of setting Boundaries. NC is generally considered to be the boundary of last resort for a Non in trying to protect themselves from dysfunctional or abusive behavior.

Going No Contact is often a painful decision to make - as you may have to let go of the persistent hope that a loved-one will get "better".

Going No Contact is not an attempt to change a person or to teach them a lesson. If it were it wouldn't be "No Contact" but a bluff and an ill-advised one at that. Going No Contact is more about protecting yourself and letting go of the need or desire to change another person.

If you are experiencing recurring abuse as an adult you need to take responsibility that you may be 'enabling' or 'allowing' the abuse to recur to some extent. If the person with the personality disorder doesn't have the self control or capacity to stop abusing you, the only way to make it stop is to go NC. If you have grown up as a child of a personality disordered individual, it may always have been that way and that may have become a way of life for you. You may not realize that you have to make the choice to not be abused.

Going No Contact is a touchy subject. Some people don't feel comfortable with the idea of cutting off a family member for life and facing the consequences of what they or others might think of you. Making the decision to go NC is never easy and is more like choosing the lesser of two evils. It may feel like a death of sorts - the death of a relationship. You may find yourself grieving or mourning the loss of "what could have been". You may feel deeply depressed as a consequence of going NC.

Going No Contact is not necessarily a decision to stop loving the person. It is a decision to stop struggling with them and let them be who they are going to be while not letting their behavior hurt you any more.

People who go No Contact sometimes feel a great deal of Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) about it:

Fear - They may fear the retribution or anger of the person whom they have cut off. People with personality disorders have an intense fear of abandonment or need to be admired and may react destructively, vengefully or even violently when faced with the humiliation of being shut out of a family member or former partner's life.

They may also fear the misunderstanding and anger of other family members, friends and acquaintances. Some of these third parties may feel like they are being left to "deal with it" and may express anger about that . They may also feel anger at their own situation while they don't have the nerve to take such a step.

Obligation - Many people will resist going No Contact out of a sense of loyalty to a relationship, marriage or family unit and out of a fear of being judged by others. People who leave a marriage or family are often misunderstood as being selfish, over-reacting, disloyal, unfaithful petty, shallow and weak.

Guilt - People who go No Contact are familiar with guilt. They will often be subject to hoovering by the person whom they have cut off which serves to play upon those feelings of guilt. They may be made to feel like they are the ones who destroyed a trust, broke the promise or threw in the towel. In reality, the promise was broken and the trust was destroyed by the person who behaved abusively before the relationship ended.

People who go No Contact are likely to face a campaign of hoovering, both by the person whom they have cut off and by other family members and friends. It can be easy right after someone hurts you to feel like No Contact is the right way to go. However, when they start heaping all sorts of kindness and sweetness on you it can take an iron will to resist the temptation to give them "one more chance".
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

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Re: No Contact III
#44: January 26, 2017, 02:00:30 PM
bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#45: February 19, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
Found online Psychology Today:


The sting of a breakup or divorce is painful and disorienting. Adrenaline courses through the body and the mind races. The suffering party thinks, “This can’t be happening.” And with that thought paramount, the individual seeks corrective action—talking it out with the ex, identifying the fix that will save the relationship, or in some way buying time through compromise, temporizing, papering over: Whatever it takes.

And yet the single best way to accelerate the healing process after a breakup or divorce is this: Stop contact with the ex.

If you are trying to recover from the end of a relationship, this advice may be difficult to accept. Your mind may already be working overtime to rationalize why it's OK for you to stay in direct contact. You may say that you have to give your ex-partner their stuff back. Or that you think it is best to keep living together, for a while at least. You may say that you have to check in on your ex’s family members. Perhaps there is a birthday coming up, or some other event. And what harm can it do to see what the ex is up to on social media? You assure yourself that you can break up and still stay friends.

In reality, the only legitimate reason for contact not to be avoided is if you have young children and must communicate about co-parenting responsibilities—and even in that case, you should maintain boundaries by limiting conversation to matters pertaining to the children. Otherwise, continuing, or attempting to continue, communication with your ex will only prolong your suffering—and prevent you from beginning a productive process of letting go.

Here are four more reasons to stop contact with an ex:

1. You can't heal.

Ending a relationship is difficult, but the painful feelings are not permanent. You will feel sad, you will feel angry, you will feel a sense of shock that your life has taken this turn. As I describe in Breaking Up and Divorce: 5 Steps, these feelings are normal, and they're part of the recovery process. Eventually, if you allow it, a kind of acceptance will come into your life. However, if you persist in contacting or attempting to contact your ex, you are working against the recovery process and in favor of a self-defeating strategy of denial. This may buffer the blow but it cures nothing. It just allows you to put off fully accepting difficult feelings and your new circumstances. Confronting the difficult feelings and accepting the fact that your ex is no longer there means you are now on the path to healing. There is comfort in this and as you persist your world will grow brighter.

2. You can't let new energy in.

Even if you are not consciously aware of it, if you are still in contact with your ex, you are continuing to devote energy over to that relationship, which can no longer be what you need and want. Each time you talk to your ex, work to make contact, or think about when you will next be in contact, you siphon off the energy needed to pursue new life experiences.

3. You live off fantasy.

If your relationship has ended, then it's over: What you had with your ex no longer exists. It will never be the same. Continuing the connection means that a part of you is still hoping that in some alternate universe there is a chance you and your ex can be together and be happy. As a result, you live off moments of closeness. But each time you come in touch, you are reminded that you no longer have your ex and you face crushing disappointment all over again. This roller coaster gets in the way of real life and its actual opportunities for happiness.

4. You relive your mistakes.

Part of what is so hard about managing relationship endings is that the injured party tends to blame himself or herself. In some ways, a relationship ending should be an opportunity for personal growth. However, it is a mistake to remain, or attempt to remain, in contact with an ex in the hope of achieving a chance to do things over. Like a character in Groundhog Day, you'll wake up with the same fears and upsets about yourself as you did the day before. This is because maintaining contact keeps you stuck in limbo: You can’t be with your ex but you can’t move on.

Once you let go—completely—you gain the freedom to live, mostly unencumbered by the regrets and hurts of yesterday.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#46: July 06, 2017, 02:25:20 AM

Found online:

While many dating coaches espouse "no-contact" as a form of manipulation (i.e., a bid to get your ex to miss you with the hopes that he'll come back), I believe it's an integral tool of empowerment. Strength is where your real power lies. You want to get to the place where you're able to say, "With or without you, my life is going to be amazing."

If you've been bawling your eyes out or hanging in limbo, it's time for radical change. During the first 60 days of no-contact (the minimum recommended time frame), you can expect the following:

1. It will suck.

The vast majority of people use love as a drug. They get "high" from an external source—another person's presence and approval. The withdrawal from that feeling (and the fear that they may not know how to be happy on their own) can be terrifying.


Have faith. You will feel sad. You will grieve. But you will also regain strength, self-esteem, confidence, and empowerment.

If your choice is between being liked or respected, always choose the latter.

2. Your silence speaks so much louder than any words could.


Your ex knows he has behaved badly. He is waiting for you to scream, so he can label you "dramatic." If you do so, you'll confirm that his decision was the right choice.


But no-contact changes the game. It's unpredictable. Without you telling him that he's wrong, he actually has to sit in his own discomfort…and think…and then lament. Because you've demonstrated that you're a class act, he will soon realize that he's lost the best thing he's ever had.

You'll redirect the pain where it belongs—with your betrayer.

3. You will develop important emotional skills.

The loss of a relationship often results in more free time. Use this time wisely to develop emotional intelligence so you have a greater chance of success (with or without your ex) down the road.

In my work coaching women and men, 99 percent of the problems I see result from a lack of boundaries. "No" is a short word that doesn't get uttered often enough. If your choice is between being liked or respected, always choose the latter.

No contact is a good time to develop better boundaries and increase your self-esteem. Abandon dysfunctional behaviors you learned in childhood. When you assess where you mis-stepped—and correct those behaviors—you have a much better probability of success the next time around.

4. You will rediscover forgotten sources of happiness.

Single women often have amazingly vibrant lives—they dance salsa, write poetry, and meet girlfriends for road trips. In a relationship, many women dive into a black hole head-first. They get comfortable. They stop flirting and start nagging. They abandon their old friends—and an essential part of themselves.

No contact gives you the time and energy to pursue your goals, big and small. Get the MBA. Plan a trip to Morocco. Flirt with the cute guy in Muay Thai class.

You'll soon realize that although your life without a partner is different, it's just as sweet.

As you start smiling and laughing again, you radiate positive vibrations. In no time, you'll have a host of new suitors because the world is abundant, after all.

5. You'll be able to define your nonnegotiable values.

The vast majority of people look for a relationship the wrong way. They chase after attractiveness, money, or physique. If you want lasting love—the kind that gets better with time—you have to think differently.

What are your values? What are your must-haves? Here are some of my personal favorites:

"I date partners who say 'I'm sorry' and own up to their mistakes."
"I date partners who believe in mutuality—where there is equal give and take."
"I date partners who believe in commitment and communication."
If a recent breakup has left you reeling, think about what values your partner was missing. Make those values nonnegotiable in your next relationship.

6. No contact will bring you back to reality.

In a relationship, sex loads your body with oxytocin and dopamine—the body's "feel good" chemicals. Euphoria often has you mired in fantasy.

Detox brings you back to reality. You see your ex not for what you wish him to be but for who he is. Is he selfish? Cowardly? A liar? An emotionally immature narcissist?

As your eyes open to reality, you can make a better decision about whether he's a good bet for the long haul. Marriage or long-term commitment is no joke, so you want a healthy and stable partner for the ride.

7. No contact will force some growth onto your partner as well.

When you stop pinning your happiness on your partner, you realize it's just you in the world. No one will save you from your demons. It's your job to figure out why you were born and how to make your life rich with meaning.

This work is hard. It's often painful. But, it's the place where life begins and starts getting really rich, rewarding, and fun. You feel younger and wake up excited for the tasks that lie ahead.

You also differentiate "wanting" a partner from "needing" one. Share the journey with someone who "gets" it. A strong teammate will fortify your flagging spirits when the struggle is real. A bad teammate will add to your headaches and problems.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#47: July 06, 2017, 02:48:17 AM
No contact saved my sanity in the beginning and is now just a way of life.  I never used it as a tool to "make him miss me" or "win" him back....I used it to escape and create a life of my own that will never again include him.
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Re: No Contact III
#48: July 06, 2017, 03:44:08 AM
I used (use it) as protection of myself and my own well being, my healing. It is the only way to protect and / or regain your sanity.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#49: July 06, 2017, 04:19:27 AM
Thanks for posting again, init :)

No contact is hard in the beginning but it is the only way to heal. I use to be a puddle on the floor even at the sight of his name... I can now look at his name and think "what an a$$hole. He is missing out on a great life." Maybe his life is great too. Who cares anyway lol.

Although there are still downward cycles, it is getting easier. We definitely heal when there is no contact!
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Re: No Contact III
#50: July 06, 2017, 06:34:08 PM
 :)
I totally agree.
Use the time to heal and get stronger.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#51: July 07, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
NC doesn't work for me. I don't contact my wife but she often does contact me. The longer I go without her contacting me, the worse it is for me.
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Re: No Contact III
#52: July 07, 2017, 06:26:24 PM
Ray? You are still so very attached. Not that attached is a bad thing..I do understand how you feel. Your W is a total mystery to me.  She and her actions somehow haven't ever gotten you to the anger stage.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#53: July 07, 2017, 06:47:50 PM
When my wife learned that she is sensitive to wheat, corn, and soy, it had a huge impact on our lives. We had to change the way we ate. We quit going to some of the restaurants we had been going to because there wasn't anything on their menus that she could eat. It sucked. But I didn't get mad at her. She didn't ask to have these food sensitivities and she wasn't making them up or exaggerating them. So how could I get mad at her for something that was out of her control?

I understand your situation. You eventually realized that your ex is an abusive narc and that you're better off without him. My wife wasn't like that. Everyone loved her. She was very thoughtful, helpful, and caring. Nobody could believe she would do the things that she's done.

I've been able to see the confusion, the indecision, the guilt, and the compulsion to do what she's doing anyway. I've experienced the irrational behavior. I myself experienced enough of what she's going through to know how powerful and confusing it is. I haven't ever felt that she was deliberately trying to hurt me except for one time, recently, when I saw her and didn't pay much attention to her and I think she may have tried to hurt me because her feelings were hurt by me not paying attention to her.

I sometimes wish that this were more like a normal breakup. Maybe then I could get angry but who did you get mad at when your spouse gets cancer or dementia or MLC?
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Re: No Contact III
#54: July 07, 2017, 07:06:39 PM
I understand what you are saying..but how doesn't it make you angry that she chooses to be with someone other than you? Does that sound like someone who cares for or loves you?

In some respects I was way too understanding of the ex.Since he fit the script of an Mlcer I confused the two.

I went back out of compassion I thougjt the damage he did could be repaired and I wanted my family back..I didn't realize he was an abusive narc until after that.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#55: July 07, 2017, 08:58:10 PM
RayOfSunshine, you sound exactly like I did, 10 months ago. You'll eventually stop and ask yourself why you're defending her..

Maybe it's the shock right now, maybe it's everyone calling you crazy for still wanting to be with her.. For me, I said the same thing. W and I both had abusive backgrounds, in many forms, I understood. I understood what other's didn't and weren't seeing. At least for me, my family lived in denial of the abuse they put me through and I felt by defending W, I was also standing up for myself too. And there was a part of me that hoped if I could prove what I good guy I was and that I believed in her, this would all go away.

Well, it didn't and here I am a year later typing this out to you. Ok, so you went through what she did, sorta, like I did. Ask yourself what made you different? Why didn't you do what she did or is still doing? Everyone liked and loved my W too.. best mother, best friend..

Give yourself sometime. I guarantee when you can step away a bit, you'll see plenty of little things that should have added up to big things that you overlooked for one reason or another. Sure, nobody's marriage is perfect, but I bet that you felt that, like me, because you loved her, it would be enough.

These things don't happen for no reason. No, at the core it isn't their fault, but their choices are theirs and theirs alone. It's up to my W to fix herself, that's why I say I'm not standing for her, I'm living for me. It's her mess. I didn't do what she did, she can have it or work to have me back. Either way, I'm not stopping and I'm sure as hell not looking back.
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Re: No Contact III
#56: July 08, 2017, 05:47:57 AM
Great post and outlook, Gman.  None of us here has the powe or capability to fix what we did not break.  The only thing we can do is live the lives we were given.  It's all about choices and we all are given an abundance of opportunities to pursue or not.  We are what we do and that shapes who we become.  So if a person's not living an authentic life, the only person they are really hurting is themself.  No, these runaway spouses did not create the internal pain they have, but they continue to feed it and live off of it.  Again, it's a choice.
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Re: No Contact III
#57: July 08, 2017, 07:55:36 AM
RayOfSunshine, you sound exactly like I did, 10 months ago. You'll eventually stop and ask yourself why you're defending her..

BD for us was more than 3 years ago and I'm still "defending" her. I understand why this is happening more now than I did 3 years ago so I don't think I'm going to change my behavior anytime soon.

The issue seems pretty straight-forward to me. Either you believe in MLC or you don't. If you believe in MLC then you'll understand why I'm "defending" her. If you don't believe in MLC then you'll never understand the person who is going through the crisis and you'll never understand LBSes like me who sympathize with them.

My brother's wife has Frontal Lobe Dementia. Her personality has changed, just as my wife's personality has changed. Some of her behaviors are bizarre, just as some of my wife's behaviors are bizarre. It's difficult for my brother to deal with his wife's situation, just as it's difficult for me to deal with my wife's situation. My brother doesn't use his wife's condition to "defend" her behavior but he does use it to explain her behavior and he continues to love her and treat her with compassion, which is what I believe I do with my wife.

In some ways my brother is very lucky. When he meets others who have a spouse or family member with Frontal Lobe Dementia he doesn't have to explain to them why he is "defending" his wife nor does he have to listen to suggestions from them that her dementia is her issue, that it's a personal shortcoming on her part, that she could choose not to behave the way she does, and that he should leave her to deal with it. It would be nice if an LBS whose spouse is going through an MLC could receive a similar level of understanding and support on a forum whose purpose is to support LBSes with spouses going through an MLC.

I'm tired of justifying myself and I'm tired of hearing that I'm "defending" my wife and I'm tired of having people who don't understand or believe in MLC continue to tell me that I shouldn't be "defending" my wife and to either insinuate or to come right out and say that this is her choice and her fault. It's ironic that my friends in Alanon seem to understand what my wife and I are going through when so many here don't. Does anyone read the articles portion of this site or do any research or do you just come here to express your opinion and vent your hurt feelings?

My father spent 3 years on the front lines during WWII as a tank driver and was involved in three amphibious landings and numerous major battles. My family went through hell because he returned with PTSD that was never diagnosed or treated because "war neurosis" was viewed as a personal weakness and those who admitted to being affected by it were looked down on and treated like it was their fault that they had PTSD. People believed the soldier with "war neurosis" must have personal shortcomings because most soldiers weren't affected by it. They were blamed for "choosing" to have PTSD.

Look at me. Now I'm "defending" my father for not having sufficient moral stamina to overcome his wartime trauma. I'm afraid I'm a hopeless defender of the weak and mentally unfit. Maybe I'm wrong and General George Patton had the right idea when he slapped a soldier who was being seen for shell shock and stated “Don’t admit this yellow bastard…There’s nothing the matter with him. I won’t have the hospitals cluttered up with these sons of b!tc#es who haven’t got the guts to fight” (Magee, 2006)"
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Re: No Contact III
#58: July 08, 2017, 08:34:07 AM
I sometimes look at this thread out of curiosity since NC has never been the way to go for me.

Just wanted to say that I do understand you Ray.

I think there are valid reasons to have no more contact with an abusive person, however, there are many of us who have spouses in MLC who were never abusive before the onset of the crisis. When they present with bizarre and out of character behavior we are confused and some of us may begin to see traces of PDs. Personally, I believe this to be dangerous. My beloved father told me at the beginning of this, when I tried to explain the unexplainable, to trust God to bring my h. home and not to listen to psychobabble! Of course, I realize that MLC is a mental dis-ease and I can see there is a process, albeit slow, and at times, incomprehensible.

Because of this, I cannot go with NC - like you Ray, I allow my h. to initiate and I attempt to mirror him, always treating him with kindness and affection.

I do believe in stepping back and letting them get on with their crisis while I carry on with the business of living.

JMHO
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Re: No Contact III
#59: July 08, 2017, 08:41:24 AM
ROS, I have my own PTSD to deal with, my own demons..

You need to take care of you too. As long as you're doing that, you're good.

I've found it helps to look objectively at the situation. Yes this person made their own choices and yes, there is something wrong with them. Somehow, it's a combination of both. So yes, you can defend them, yes you can understand, but you can also take care of you and make sure that you're living the best possible life at the same time.
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Re: No Contact III
#60: July 08, 2017, 08:49:07 AM
Ray,

I think everyone comes here for support.

We read a lot of the articles and LBS's stories and try to give our honest opinions/advice and also to vent our hurt feelings.
I think that is what this site is all about.
What may seem like an attack may just be someone thinking they are helping you.

Don't be too harsh with them.  They mean well and care about you.

I have always had compassion for my MLCer.  I have never called him names or talked ugly about him.  That's not who I am and my XH doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
I also have never bad mouthed any one else's spouse.  That's insensitive.  They may be angry with them but they love their spouse.  I respect that.

My X is a good man.  I know he didn't deliberately set out to hurt me, but I do agree with RCR that we can still hold them accountable for their "choices."  Their not mentally incapable.
Ever MLCer has choices.  They just tend to make the wrong ones.

Yes, you are a defender of the weak and mentally unfit, but that's just who you are and there is nothing wrong with that.  You're a compassionate man.
Defend away!   :)

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Re: No Contact III
#61: July 08, 2017, 08:59:39 AM
OMG Ray That's not what I'm saying at all!

 I'm so sorry about your father. It was years and years ago and no one was aware..battle fatigue or shell shocked is what they called it. No one understood what these men went through unless you were one of them.
That scene in Patton was disgusting by most peoples standards.

I went to see saving Private Ryan ( my first "date" ::) with the ex after the second baby was born) I sat there and cried through the first scene.  The horrors of war and what happens. I have no idea how men endured them. It does change them.

I'm tired of justifying myself and I'm tired of hearing that I'm "defending" my wife and I'm tired of having people who don't understand or believe in MLC continue to tell me that I shouldn't be "defending" my wife and to either insinuate or to come right out and say that this is her choice and her fault. It's ironic that my friends in Alanon seem to understand what my wife and I are going through when so many here don't. Does anyone read the articles portion of this site or do any research or do you just come here to express your opinion and vent your hurt feelings?

You are suffering and it's obvious.  Something about that IMHO is familiar to you. We would just like to see you a bit happier. Keep defending her if that makes you feel better.

And yes a lot of us are hurt, and we vent, we are human.and it does not make us any less understanding of what spouses, ex spouses, SO's  etc are dealing with.  We also realize we can't help them. So there is no one to focus on but ourselves.

I've been to Alanon..one of the steps is to realize we are powerless. Isn't that just a bit frustrating?

You are right, it's not her fault Ray, but her moving out and doing what she's doing IS her choice. No one came and forced her to leave or kidnapped her right? You didn't tell her she had to leave or anything right?Are you saying due to her condition she could not make a decision not to? That this condition has incapacitated her so much she made this decision against her own will?

You don't have a vindictive, vicious, abusive spouse. It makes it a lot easier to cut them loose if you do.It's not that Lbs's don't believe in MLC..IMHO it's just no excuse to treat people the Mler's were once married to and had children and a life with this poorly.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#62: July 08, 2017, 09:23:30 AM
I meant no disrespect or harm whatsoever, myself, to ROS.

When I read your post, I read something eerily familiar in it all. You mentioned not contacting her, she contacts you frequently, but when she doesn't, it's hardest on you.

As in it was noticing, you're suffering and that right there, is suffering. Every contact you have with her is hope, without it, it's despair.

I do believe in MLC, I do believe in the process of it, but I personally don't believe there is anything noble about suffering, especially the sins of others.

My wife acts like we're still best friends, that we're even together sometimes and that OM doesn't exist. I thought I was alone here in this.. Many other people's MLCers rage, spew and are convinced that the OP is the love of their life and all they do is flaunt it. As in it was saying, that makes it all too easy to let go and detach.

With a W like yours and mine, it's nearly impossible. That's why it was the hardest thing of this for me to understand and that's why I also put so much hard work into getting beyond it. W isn't feeling the consequences of her actions because you're there when she wants you. She's not growing or healing and neither are you, because it's hard when you're apart and you're waiting for the next contact. 

I'm not privy to what goes on or is said between you, so you have to take that with a grain of salt. And also, nobody else can tell you what to do. But we all care and as there are many different people on the forum here, it all comes out in many different ways.

You can still stand, you can still understand, you can still hope and love, but you can also get off that cycle with your W. What's going to happen is going to happen, the process will work itself out one way or the other. But you can also just sit back and watch it and not ride the roller coaster. That is something you do have control over.

That's my advice in a nutshell, but as Levar Burton says, you don't have to take my word for it..  :D
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Re: No Contact III
#63: July 08, 2017, 09:36:52 AM
This  is bringing to mind an excellent article I recently read, "When his midlife crisis turns into marital terrorism" (https://debramacleod.com/mans-midlife-crisis-turns-marital-terrorism/)

The author does a fantastic job of drawing distinction between a true crisis and self indulgent, cruel behavior. I encourage everyone to read it.

Ray, I think you are 100 percent right that your wife is unwell, if not with "dis-ease" but (in my opinion) some type of poorly understood frontotemporal lobe issue. I don't think this is simply bad choices. Some people on this forum have also looked into this as a type of addiction. Like gman, though, I think there may have been clues in some cases that the MLCer had a personality disorder or anger issues or depression  leading up to it -- at least in some cases. (Not all.)

I am no contact for over a year. While I felt I had to do this given my own traumatized state, it creates a sense of unfamiliarity that I think further damages the relationship. I actually think if you are going to go no contact, the best time is right after bomb drop.

On the flip side, if you can manage to treat your spouse with a level of distance, it may help them as Gman writes (our posts crossed) your wife to feel consequences. Also, it is harder to monster at someone who you don't really have a connection to anymore.

 I went no contact due to extremely abusive behavior that I did not recognize as abuse at the time. I went no contact at about twelve months after about three cycles of abuse/manic state. I think that if I had not done this it would have been a repeat of the year before, abuse and power play and manipulation with overt cruelty and lots of blame, projection, etc.

However, I think if I had gone no contact immediately after bomb drop, I would be far ahead either now. Both in terms of my own healing and also in terms of having drawn firm boundary early on to prevent ongoing mistreatment.

In a way, our behavior is often addressed at two scenarios. One is that our spouse can and will recover and the other is that they cannot and will not ever recover.

You sound like an amazing person and incredible and thoughtful family member. I think you should feel confident to trust your own perceptions and feelings about how to best navigate in your situation.



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« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 09:40:31 AM by Velika »

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Re: No Contact III
#64: July 08, 2017, 10:26:23 AM
However, I think if I had gone no contact immediately after bomb drop, I would be far ahead either now. Both in terms of my own healing and also in terms of having drawn firm boundary early on to prevent ongoing mistreatment.

Perfectly worded V.

I agree with you I delayed my own healing and focusing on me and doing my own mirror work staying involved with him. Right after BD I should have shut the show down. And had not one thing to do with him. Staying in contact gave him opportunity to manipulate me. Then I would even feel sorry for him when he was abusive..."Oh poor him he's having a Mlc"..no he's  controlling miserable and abusive and always has been. After having time to look back and reflect.

Did way more damage to myself having anything to do with him.

I ended up totally traumatized this time- including physically.

And about any article I have read said when going through a break up/ divorce. Minimum 30 day NC right off the bat.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#65: July 08, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Ray,

I think everyone comes here for support.

We read a lot of the articles and LBS's stories and try to give our honest opinions/advice and also to vent our hurt feelings.
I think that is what this site is all about.
What may seem like an attack may just be someone thinking they are helping you.

Don't be too harsh with them.  They mean well and care about you.

I have always had compassion for my MLCer.  I have never called him names or talked ugly about him.  That's not who I am and my XH doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
I also have never bad mouthed any one else's spouse.  That's insensitive.  They may be angry with them but they love their spouse.  I respect that.

My X is a good man.  I know he didn't deliberately set out to hurt me, but I do agree with RCR that we can still hold them accountable for their "choices."  Their not mentally incapable.
Ever MLCer has choices.  They just tend to make the wrong ones.

Yes, you are a defender of the weak and mentally unfit, but that's just who you are and there is nothing wrong with that.  You're a compassionate man.
Defend away!   :)


Thunder, great advice.  Though I do get angry at my H for what he's doing (or not doing) - I don't like to badmouth him.  He doesn't deserve that.  No one does.  H is unconscious and hurting and looking outside himself to soothe inner pain.  I also don't agree with total NC.  I think it depends on your situation and who you are.  I think very dark is more suitable for my situation.  I don't have a monster, thank god.  Just a vanisher of sorts.  ::)
Everyone needs to do what works for them. 

Ray, you sound like a kind, compassionate soul. That is a strength.  Don't lose that with all of this MLC business.
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Re: No Contact III
#66: July 08, 2017, 02:01:22 PM
I believe that I have empathy for my W. I do read everything that I can on MLC and I'm always reading RCR and HB. I'm frustrated with the MLC. Obviously I don't condone nor appreciate the way she is treating me.  The ultimate consequence that she will potentially have to face is losing me for good.

We both live in NC. My W is abusive and has rage towards me at times so NC works best for me. If I had contact she would be manipulative and abusive. I think her use of the Silent Treatment is by far the worse form of abuse. She is a control freak and makes sure that everyone is in line with her ideas and that includes our kids. Everything that I read about Psychological Abuse tells me that is what she utilizes against me. So I need NC for my survival.

As for deploying NC at BD, I believe that would have been difficult. In hindsight we would like to think that we could have utilized it a lot sooner. However, we were all emotional wrecks  at the time and probably were suffering the effects of PTSD. I could not even begin to describe the things that I did for my W during those first 2 months.

Now I did not feel like I owned NC until the start of month 22. It just took me that long to feel myself again unfortunately. Now it's really not difficult because she has her MLCer version of NC on me. Good grief, something like 650/735 odd days of our crisis has been spent in NC. Obviously, if we do want a relationship at some point, NC is going to have to end. She is going to have to figure herself out eventually  ;) If not, I will be just as fine.

However, she is still one angry Monster at 25 months. Velika I did like the article and I agree, she is a Marital Terrorist. Maybe that's how I will refer to her in our next email exchange, LOL...I do agree Velika, the ongoing mistreatment does need to be halted and the sooner the better.


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Re: No Contact III
#67: July 08, 2017, 06:20:54 PM
However, she is still one angry Monster at 25 months. Velika I did like the article and I agree, she is a Marital Terrorist. Maybe that's how I will refer to her in our next email exchange, LOL...I do agree Velika, the ongoing mistreatment does need to be halted and the sooner the better.

We can't let the terrorists win.
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Re: No Contact III
#68: July 08, 2017, 06:29:54 PM
I for one do not negotiate with terrorists.
And that article may helpful after first BD? ..just not quite blunt enough for me.
If it had read:
If you are getting no sleep, being verbally abused filled in on your ex's sex life with the ow by him.etc etc (I'd rather not go into.) Emailed and called on the phone.
If you are being stalked at work and at places you go to eat and hes generally being an @$$hole? End it by whatever means possible and do not go back.Slam the damn door and nail that sucker shut.
Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges so the crazies don't follow you.
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 06:42:52 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#69: July 08, 2017, 06:46:49 PM
Watcher, there are certain cases where NC is the only, and best way, to deal with the situation.

Abuse is abuse, whether it is physical or emotional.
Both are equally destructive.  Broken bones or a breaking a spirit.

Your W has controlled every one around her for a very long time.  Your in laws and your boys are a product of this right now.
But you broke out of it.

I'm just so very proud of you, you see that control is not what you want anymore.  You should be able to have coffee in the morning.  Work out when you want to.

Equal partners, in every aspect of your marriage, is what you are now demanding.
It's really not too much to ask for.  That's what a healthy marriage is all about and you are not willing to settle for less.
Good for you.

There are no queens or kings here, just 2 people who work together and respect each other.
Only way it works.   :)
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Re: No Contact III
#70: July 22, 2017, 07:47:15 PM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#71: July 25, 2017, 06:05:52 PM
It is super scary to admit but what happens when NC just becomes 2nd nature. I can honestly say that I don't miss her. I don't want to be around her. I'm not giving up on her but I just no longer want to put up with her abusive behavior towards me. Tomorrow I will be 125 days NC.

I have no intention on breaking it because I don't believe that she has done anything to change for the better. It really is scary how detached I have become. I really don't know if I could be anymore detached. I do have to credit the NC. I really believe that I have no choice. I don't want to be abused. It's a basic request to be treated humanely.

It's so simple. I just want an equal partnership with respect, and yet it's so elusive. I think I'm going to be NC for quite sometime. I know she will break it eventually but there are no easy answers to fix our mess. I just went over the thread again because it does contain valuable information. Yes, a healthy marriage would be nice. A healthy relationship would be nice. I believe my days of settling are past me.
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Re: No Contact III
#72: July 25, 2017, 06:54:17 PM
I feel the same way watcher. I'm so detached I wonder if I could ever go back to speaking to him. It's been 18 months of no contact. He picks up my daughter and I just send her out. He has tried to make small talk by text. But the games are always there and I deserve so much more. No contact has helped me so much. By the time he gets his crap together I probably won't be here.
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Re: No Contact III
#73: July 26, 2017, 01:32:05 AM
I know its not a popular mindset or endorsed here.Sometimes its the only resort when a spouse or an ex is being abusive or when you really need some peace and quiet time to reflect back on the relationship and do your mirror work.
Eliminate any drama and as much negativity as possible.

A few of us have spouses who don't monster but their effect on us with the confusion can still be painful.No contact protects us..not punishes them.

The games arent fun and sometimes the only way to "win" your sanity and self respect back is not to play.
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Re: No Contact III
#74: July 26, 2017, 02:40:54 AM
I agree. I am no contact for about 14 months now. (Almost two years post bomb drop.) My heart still thumps when I see my former H name with a text message or when I hear his voice -- in fear I mean. The abuse was this traumatic.

I don't think that no contact has influenced him but it has given me some space and power over how I respond when he contacts me.

However, I feel the true "no contact" will be when I work through the issues there are keeping me still attached to this situation, and this includes being able to have a relationship with our son where I am not "triggered" and the autonomy to not be connected to the situation in a way where I have to fear repercussions of angering my former H.

I would love to hear others' success stories of going fully EMOTIONALLY, ENERGENTICALLY "no contact" with their exes. This is especially tricky, I know, in cases where we are coparenting/parallel parenting.
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Re: No Contact III
#75: July 26, 2017, 03:37:42 AM
V I'm sorry you are experiancing such fear when dealing with him.

I'm not sure how old your child is.Have you read anything about how to coparent with a narcissist?
Hes still controlling you to an extent if you fear angering him.

I'm glad no contact has given you back your power to respond and not react.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#76: July 26, 2017, 04:25:50 AM
I have been trying to apply NC & go dim since earlier this year, safe to say that it does help with mirror work and detaching. I still cycle and cry at least every week, I think of him often and miss my old life every single day. But life goes on for me, forcing myself to GAL and I cannot wait for him to come back / wake up if ever. He doesn't monster but his excessive use of social media, posting photos of him being all happy does hurt me a lot. It's been 1 year since BD and me moving out.

I've only initiated contact probably three times since then (his dad passed away, sent him a link & he hurt his leg), otherwise I do not text first. He texts me once a week at least and it does get a bit confusing, it shows that I was on his mind somehow - I always respond to his messages though. I know I still have a long way to go...
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Re: No Contact III
#77: July 26, 2017, 05:10:13 AM
I'm just wondering if extended NC can ever back fire.  Maybe backfire isn't the right word.
Maybe have same effect on the MLCer.

I understand you do it for yourself not as a punishment, that makes perfect sense, but what if instead of them having the space and time to do their inner work they detach too.  Not the normal MLC detachment but real, normal, healthy detachment..like the kind Watcher was talking about.

Do they their inner work while GAL themselves as they go along and decide they no longer want the marriage or care about it.
Could this detachment make it possible they don't miss or want the spouse too?
Like out of sight out of mind type thing.  Don't they detach too, after so much time?

By extended NC, I'm talking about how some people do it for a few years.

Hope I'm making sense.   Hard to explain what I mean.  I suppose in that case the couple maybe shouldn't really be together.  I don't know, just thinky this morning.   :)

I guess I'd like to hear stories where the NC was the best thing and eventually brought the couple back together, both healed or in the process of healing.
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Re: No Contact III
#78: July 26, 2017, 05:37:21 AM
I had thought about that thunder, maybe he will never even want to come back. But it's a chance I had to take. We had a great marriage for 28 years. Hopefully he will remember that but I now have my sanity back. I was to involved with this at the beginning and it was consuming my everyday life. I still think about it but I have become a better person for my daughter. After 18 months I still miss him and wish things were different. With everything that I have read says if he really wants to reconcile he will make an effort. If not then I will be ok
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Re: No Contact III
#79: July 26, 2017, 05:40:48 AM
Well T in my case I couldn't be any less interested in having any kind of relationship with the ex so it can't backfire.

I can only pray it's out of sight out of mind.

For others I still think some period of no contact is healing. Especially when blatant disrespect has been shown.

You cannot force anyone to respect you, but you can refuse to be disrespected.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#80: July 26, 2017, 05:55:03 AM
You're so right init.  NO one should take abuse from anyone!  If it means they don't get back together, sometimes that is just what needs to happen.  In your case, let's hope it's loud and clear...stay away!   :)

It's funny after I wrote this Watcher posted on his thread, and it pretty much answered my question.
He is going NC, not just for his own sake, but his W's too.

He said even if they don't get back together, he is giving his W the time and space to do her inner work and become a healed woman and mother for the children.  (of course he said it better than I did)  ha ha
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Re: No Contact III
#81: July 26, 2017, 06:51:08 AM
Thunder that's the same reason I've gone dim on my wife. I think in some cases, until you can get rid of or minimize the codepenancy, change and introspection isn't going to happen. Instead, they'll get their relationship / stability fix and go right back to what they were doing. For the LBS, that just keeps you in a pattern of having expectations as well. If in the event that they never come out of this, you've done your work and well prepared.
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Re: No Contact III
#82: July 26, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
If my NC allows me to heal and become a better man than maybe it gives her the opportunity  to heal and find that woman again inside of her. At its core level, she needs to become a woman again before anything else. If she cannot become a woman than my kids are not getting their mother back and  we have absolutely  no chance at a relationship.

I believe that our contact has been just fueling the crisis. How much Monster do I write about these days ? Not much since I went NC. I also agree that she has been getting her fixes through the touch and goes/anchor checks. So minimizing those interactions should help.
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Re: No Contact III
#83: July 26, 2017, 08:20:16 AM
Mine went NC 2 weeks after BD which was almost 2 years ago.
I immediately flooded him with requests for contact.  That didn't work so I dropped down to the occasional contact. That didn't work. So I went dim, then dark.  I then up'd it to more-than-occasional contact thinking I could break the rules, what did I have to lose? I already lost it.   

Nothing - nothing -no reply - no response - absolutely nothing from husband until he emailed me that he had filed for divorce :(

In my personal opinion, my efforts with contact were meant to try to send the olive branch, get response, have a say, get through, pave a way.  I've concluded for myself that the effect of contact vs. no contact is just going to be a huge mystery.  I say this because  I've also come to believe that no matter what we do, or don't do, we cannot change the MLC spouse or alter the course of their crisis. 

So why would I try any measure to control the outcome?    I thought about it this morning  (of course I think about his ghost every day!).  If he is inclined to find peace with me, he will make the contact.  I have to be confident in that respect, otherwise I am just playing my hand to try to influence him.  I've also concluded that there's no such thing as contact without expectation because otherwise, why do it?

So will he "forget about me" if I don't send the occasional contact?   I guess he might.  So should I do it to cause him to "not to forget me"?  Well, if he wanted to forget me and I continue to contact, then how have I improved my plight? 

It's been 9 months since his divorce now.  I think about contacting him again from time to time, but I can't do it without expectation, so I continue on with my own healing and NC. 

Just rambling....
CallingHeart...


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Re: No Contact III
#84: July 26, 2017, 08:48:35 AM
CallingHeart,

I believe that's exactly where I have arrived. She has made it clear to me that she wants no contact. She does not want me and she certainly does not want a relationship. So why keep beating my head against a wall. When she is ready, she will reach out. That's what I have come to believe. It's simply out of my hands.  4 months of NC has been great for me.
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Re: No Contact III
#85: July 26, 2017, 10:10:54 AM
I agree with Rebecca. I realized after some time with no contact I had reached the point where I did not want him back. It helped me to also grow to see him as the person he has become, not the person he was. And also maybe to have some fresh perspective on the person he was, who was maybe not the person I thought, as painful as that is to realize.

Another helpful thing is that I am beginning to see that some of the things I miss about him are actually things I miss about myself. Meaning, they are things I can recover. I guess the other things are traits I can begin to cultivate in myself. Being around someone who was projecting anger onto me has hurt me a lot. Even small words in his texts upset me. The less contact I have the more I can see how he affects me and how I feel when I am not he affected this way.

The person he is now is not someone I would be interested in looking for a new partner. This is a guy who cheated on his wife, self absorbed, into hunting, looks puffy and spaced out. Has kids by two different women.

I was feeling quite down and my sister showed me a recent photo of Ben Affleck. She asked me, do you think Jennifer Garner is comparing herself to his new GF? Ben Affleck can be the poster child for MLC. He looks identical to my former H in expressions and appearance. He is a movie star and yet I think a lot of women would not touch him in this state.

I was talking to a neighbor who works in neurology. He said even a very very small event can cause this. Scans can't measure issues with chemistry and synapses. He said there was a patient, female in her sisxties, who experienced tiny tiny brain event (almost to point of barely registering). He said she experienced such extreme disinhibition and hyoersexuality that she openly discussed S&M to group of residents who had come to observe her.

I think all of us have tried the contact route and for various reasons observe that it does not help us or the MLC spouse.

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Re: No Contact III
#86: July 26, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Mine went NC 2 weeks after BD which was almost 2 years ago.
I immediately flooded him with requests for contact.  That didn't work so I dropped down to the occasional contact. That didn't work. So I went dim, then dark.  I then up'd it to more-than-occasional contact thinking I could break the rules, what did I have to lose? I already lost it.   

Nothing - nothing -no reply - no response - absolutely nothing from husband until he emailed me that he had filed for divorce :(

In my personal opinion, my efforts with contact were meant to try to send the olive branch, get response, have a say, get through, pave a way.  I've concluded for myself that the effect of contact vs. no contact is just going to be a huge mystery.  I say this because  I've also come to believe that no matter what we do, or don't do, we cannot change the MLC spouse or alter the course of their crisis. 

So why would I try any measure to control the outcome?    I thought about it this morning  (of course I think about his ghost every day!).  If he is inclined to find peace with me, he will make the contact.  I have to be confident in that respect, otherwise I am just playing my hand to try to influence him.  I've also concluded that there's no such thing as contact without expectation because otherwise, why do it?

So will he "forget about me" if I don't send the occasional contact?   I guess he might.  So should I do it to cause him to "not to forget me"?  Well, if he wanted to forget me and I continue to contact, then how have I improved my plight? 

It's been 9 months since his divorce now.  I think about contacting him again from time to time, but I can't do it without expectation, so I continue on with my own healing and NC. 

Just rambling....
CallingHeart...



CH,
I think I would have to agree with you here. 
Very well said.
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Re: No Contact III
#87: July 26, 2017, 04:03:19 PM
I'm 4 years and 4 months NC and all I can say is I'm happier without him than I ever was with him.

 I had no idea what kind of misery I was living in for more than half of the relationship, which is where he wanted me stuck in his misery. I don't miss him one bit.

NC was implemented by me because if I didn't?

All it would do talking to him and dealing with him do is make the DV incident invalid.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#88: August 19, 2017, 04:32:18 AM

Found Online:

You are grieving the death of the relationship. You don’t know what to do and not to do, what to think and not to think. Thoughts, thoughts, you are asking yourself a lot of questions. The answers, the answers aren’t satisfactory. Why? Why? Questions, questions but the answers aren’t comforting or plausible. Should you be happy you broke up with your partner or the relationship came to an end? No, you aren’t really happy the relationship came to an end. Should you try to get back your ex, to revive the relationship or should you move on?

What about the emotional pain? You are hurting. The pain, the pain is enormous trying to articulate it in words is next to impossible. Why me? You keep asking yourself. What did I do to deserve this? You are unsure if you will ever heal from the hurt. You feel you’re the only one experiencing the pain and you’re convinced no one will help you to heal and recover from the breakup. All you need is your ex, to feel the warmth of the relationship. No, what you’re wishing is for the ground to swallow you.

What should you do? You need to apply the No Contact Rule. It might be hard to put into effect this rule. You might think No Contact rule is something that cannot work out; you will not benefit from it. This is not the case. There are benefits to be derived when you employ this rule.

What Is No Contact Rule?

No Contact means you are not going to initiate any form of contact or communication. You are not going to get in touch with your ex in whatever form until you benefit from applying this rule.

Consequently, No Contact means:

You are not going to initiate any form of call or text – both normal calls and texts and online calls and texts such as Skype, Whatsapp, Facebook and through other social media sites.

No stalking your ex. You are not going to act like a hunter trailing your ex through social media sites and physically. You are not going to spend your time tracking your ex because you’re desperate and needy.

No accidental bumping. They aren’t accidental bumping but intended bumping. The reason they are called accidental bumping is because when you meet your ex face-to-face you’ll give out a lot of stammering excuses and convince him and yourself it’s an accidental bumping.

Don’t frequent spots you know you won’t miss your ex because he likes visiting those places. It is not that you want to talk to him but the sight of him in order to feel you’re still together with him or to ‘kill’ the loneliness you feel. You feel a little bit satisfied by carrying out this action.

No using your mutual friends to get information about your ex. You are doing this to gain more information such as whether he has a new girlfriend, whether he is thinking of getting back with you or he no longer wants to see you.
Some conditions may warrant you to initiate contact or respond to your ex’s texts and/or calls. In case of an emergency or there is an urgent message you need to deliver to your ex, don’t refrain from telling him. If he sends you an emergent text, do respond. However, ensure the communication doesn’t revolve on the failed relationship.

It is imperative to note there is a difference between No Contact and Limited Contact. If you contact your ex for a few days or less than two weeks, then it cannot be said you’re applying No Contact. In essence, you’re implementing Limited Contact.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#89: August 19, 2017, 05:47:14 AM
In it,


What to me is so truly spot on, is that you do not get in touch until you have benefitted from the no contact.

The timeline will be different for everyone, but once you have benefitted from no contact, does it become a way of life for one  so that there is not an  attempt to re-establish
contact?  Does it become punishment towards the other?

Very curious to see responses to this.
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Re: No Contact III
#90: August 19, 2017, 02:35:16 PM
I don't look at it as punishment towards the other..I look at it as protecting yourself while you heal from the vile disgusting things they say and any monster along with verbal abuse. The shock of BD's, discovering the infidelity, all the projection they spew at you. It also keeps you out of the drama.
You need to take care of you and do not concern yourself with them.

In my case (which is extreme) I will not be talking to the ex again- ever.I had to recover from a physical assault that resulted in a visit to the emergency room for x-rays..
No contact helps you heal.

Only you can decide if contact is made again if you are strong enough to deal with them. Also have created firm boundaries about what kind of treatment (including how they speak to you) you will not put up with and then MAYBE have some kind of decent respectful relationship with them.

I say this next part cautiously. Do not count on them coming back. On here they say live "as if" they will not return.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#91: August 20, 2017, 03:13:22 AM
For the few of us who do not have a monster or a verbal abuser.
Contact can also serve to reel you back in emotionally. Playing on your sympathy and compassion. A touch and go that is positive can give you false hope and keep you right where they left you emotionally.

You need time to heal.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#92: August 20, 2017, 10:14:42 AM
Attaching to hear more. I initially when no contact. He then "enjoyed" be able to vanish easily. It was probably the right thing for me. It's moved me towards healing and breaking my codependency on him. I still have a long way tonight!
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Re: No Contact III
#93: August 20, 2017, 03:20:25 PM
Found Online:

What Is the No Contact Rule?

The No Contact Rule is simplicity itself: it merely means not having any communication with your former romantic partner, for a specified period of time.


Read the entire article here: https://pairedlife.com/breakups/no-contact-rule-after-breakup

RCR Note: Please be considerate of copyright and do not paste entire articles from other sources. I feel it is important that we look outside of my own articles and the forum, but writers need credit for their work and you need to be respectful of this. Post an excerpt and then a link. I received an official notice regarding this particular article which is why my comment is here and not on others--as I am not able to go around looking for articles that should not be pasted in full.
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« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:53:58 PM by Rollercoasterider »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#94: August 21, 2017, 06:31:06 AM
Excellent article Init.
However those LBsers with clingers who have children are not advised to have no contact as that is unfair on the children unless of course the MLCer is abusive.

Reminder too that RCR does not advise no contact in the early stages of the crisis unless the MLCer has been abusive or becomes so or creates genuine trouble in which case it may become a legal issue.

NC is more for the latter stages especially when the MLCer wishes to return to the marriage but still has OW/OM and cannot or rather will not break from them.  It is effective in cake eating situations from time to time but yet again difficult to manage where children are involved. 

NC should also be time deadlined too
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Re: No Contact III
#95: August 21, 2017, 02:10:18 PM
Thanks SandD I thought it was quite good.

Yes it should have a deadline. How someone might come up with that I don't have a clue.

And to be honest- fairness to the kids would be that an MLCer didn't think about themselves and be so self centered and selfish that they decided that a divorce would make them happy and blow up the family and/or involve a third party , cause all this pain, and drama, and want to blame everybody and everything else for it.

A mother and father talking while one of them is either shacking up with an ow or om or outright committing infidelity IMHO is hardly a trade off for an intact family.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#96: August 22, 2017, 12:04:34 AM
Quote
fairness to the kids would be that an MLCer didn't think about themselves and be so self centered and selfish that they decided that a divorce would make them happy and blow up the family and/or involve a third party

Totally agree in principle but very difficult to manage and if the spouse with small children is NC then the MLCer could throw that back at them when talking custody etc... damned if you and damned if you don't syndrome.

This is why RCR recommends dim or dark.  I alternated both with my MLCer in the early days and still go dim quite often.  It helps give both of space as he is reconnecting.
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Re: No Contact III
#97: August 22, 2017, 06:10:34 AM
Yes and I agree if there is small children you may have to deal with them.

In my situation things are totally different.

Maybe a thread should be started about LC or dim or dark and how to handle that. This NC thread are for those who are looking for a way to heal who have little complications involved.
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#98: August 22, 2017, 06:35:07 AM
Quote
This is borne out by research undertaken by the University of South Florida

Nice! Glad to see they're contributing to the world of pop psy.  ::)

I just have a bone to pick with them.. they're money hungry and grasping at whatever hand outs and grants the state will give them. I was not a happy camper there..

But that was a very useful post, regardless, I did enjoy reading it.
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Re: No Contact III
#99: August 22, 2017, 06:59:56 AM
To me, NC with small children should only be done if the MLCer is either ignoring the children or is Monstering at them, like Chriss's H.  Then it is to protect the kids.

If the MLCer is still trying to parent, and spend time with their kids (which isn't that often), then NC would only hurt the kids.
Even if the spouse can't get along with them the children should have a chance to have both parents in their life.  Even divorced parents can still parent.

So I think it all depends on how the MLCer is acting towards the kids.  Do they want to be involved or not?
Are they treating their kids well or not?

If they Monster at everyone..NC for sure!
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Re: No Contact III
#100: August 22, 2017, 07:15:32 AM
I agree Thunder.
There's been pretty much NC with my H for some time now.  NC isn't my choice.  I've gone dark simply because it has just evolved that way.  We have no kids so there's not much of a reason for contact unless it has to do with the house/bills.  So, at least in my case, there's NC because there hasn't been a reason for contact. 

On the one hand NC concerns me with the "out of sight, out of mind" old saying.  And, on the other hand if I should contact about anything other than business, I think it will come across as pursuit or pressure.



 
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Re: No Contact III
#101: August 22, 2017, 07:24:34 AM
Hero, I don't believe in "out of site out of mind."  There is always "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
I think the MC thinks of us a lot more than we know.

I agree with you on the pursuit thing.
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Re: No Contact III
#102: August 22, 2017, 07:30:38 AM
Hero, I don't believe in "out of site out of mind."  There is always "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
I think the MC thinks of us a lot more than we know.


I do hope you are right Thunder.
Seems as of late, with the NC, it just "feels" more like out of sight out of mind.....
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Re: No Contact III
#103: August 22, 2017, 07:54:11 AM
I'm sure it does Hero, but how often have we heard the MLCer's who came out their crisis say..they thought about us every day?

I do also think NC shouldn't be forever.  It should just be for the LBS to have time to heal and get stronger.
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Re: No Contact III
#104: August 31, 2017, 04:01:23 PM
That's what it is for T.

The LBS takes back their power when they implement NC. It gives the LBS time and the peace to focus on themselves.  Affording them the time to heal and get stronger.

As far as duration? It's an individual thing.
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Re: No Contact III
#105: September 13, 2017, 02:47:54 AM
Bump
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Re: No Contact III
#106: December 09, 2017, 04:28:08 AM
The Christmas season is on it's way..if you have tried everything except for NC try it this Christmas. Give yourself the gift of peace.
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At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#107: December 09, 2017, 06:37:35 AM
I agree! No contact was the best thing I did. (We are parents so there is some contact via text.)
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Re: No Contact III
#108: December 09, 2017, 02:53:12 PM
 :)
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At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

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Re: No Contact III
#109: December 10, 2017, 02:00:05 PM
Well I live in NC so I am a proponent if it's needed. Velika we don't do the electronic comms or any for that matter regarding the kids. She is hardcore NC herself. As for duration it is an individual thing I agree. I went 5.5 months as my longest which she eventually broke.

I'm NC currently again. HeroIam we have probably both been NC the equivalent of 27 out of 30 months. I've lived home 14 months and away 16 months. She always breaks NC to come get me. I've been home 90 days. If I break it down by hours, then we have not exceeded 24 hours of contact yet.

This is the state of her crisis. Depression and Withdrawal. I also agree with Thunder that it cannot be forever. I dont break NC ever so a lot of this hinges on my W. I'd still be NC had she not come in August.
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Re: No Contact III
#110: December 10, 2017, 02:35:11 PM
I think it hinges on whether you want to reconcile or not.

If you do you will need contact eventually.

If you do not want to reconcile, and you're done..NC as long as you want. :)
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Re: No Contact III
#111: December 10, 2017, 02:49:35 PM
Yea that would work. Well at least I know that I'm good at NC if I go that route since I have plenty of experience. Good point. :)
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Re: No Contact III
#112: December 10, 2017, 06:36:21 PM
In my case no there will be no reconciliation reconnection etc with the ex. So NC will continue indefinitely.
In cases where these LBS' s have tolerated as much as they possibly can take they need time to heal and focus on themselves.
IMHO that cannot be done in most of these cases without some period of not dealing with them.
Many of these relationships have become toxic..lack honest communication and border on or are verbally mentally and emotionally abusive.

We all need time to deal with our own issues. Especially why we would think we would deserve being treated they way we are being treated.
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Re: No Contact III
#113: December 10, 2017, 07:52:08 PM
InIt,

I agree 100% with you.

Once there is physical violence involved..there is no going back. Ever!
We need to respect ourselves more than that.
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Re: No Contact III
#114: February 19, 2018, 01:03:07 PM
Bump
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Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#115: February 19, 2018, 03:16:50 PM
Thank you in it. I needed to read this.
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M 40
H 41
He moved out May 21,2017
Ow 41( his 1st cousin) moved her in May 23, 2017, she went back to her husband Oct 2017
Ow moved back with her 2 kids Jan 1 2018 even with courts cutting his visitation with his kids because of it
Ow moved out again Dec 2019 and is back with her husband Jan 2020
T-19 yr M-14 yrs
S14 & D88
BD  February 12 2017 & April 22 2017 (signs of MLC since 2015)
I filed for divorce June 2 2017 for protection- final hearing on our 20th anniversary (July 11,2018) divorce was final August 9, 2018

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8791.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8948.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9189.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10052.150

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Re: No Contact III
#116: April 23, 2018, 06:16:50 AM
Go no contact and heal. :)
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You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#117: May 20, 2018, 07:50:00 PM
If you've tried everything else talking, listening, trying to logic and you still are left discouraged, lied too, monstered at when dealing eith them. Try going no contact.

Thats no phone calls, Skype,  texts, emails, letters, spending time in person. Zero no contact.
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Re: No Contact III
#118: May 21, 2018, 08:32:08 PM
InIt,

I agree 100% with you.

Once there is physical violence involved..there is no going back. Ever!
We need to respect ourselves more than that.
What do I do in my case, Thunder? He's going into a hell hole for 9 months. He believes that his friends will send him letters and care packages. I don't think they will.

I said that I would send an occasional update and a monthly care package... Should I do that still? If not, how do I back out of it gracefully?
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Re: No Contact III
#119: May 22, 2018, 03:39:29 AM
You just don't do it..no need to address it.
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

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Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#120: May 22, 2018, 05:14:40 AM
You just don't do it..no need to address it.
Easier said than done. I gave my word.
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Re: No Contact III
#121: May 22, 2018, 05:35:18 AM
How many times has he kept his word?  How many times has he lied?
Do whatever you want to do but if you are trying to detach and give yourself some peace and gain some self respect you cannot keep dealing with him.

I understand integrity and I admire that you have some and your word means something. You may be wasting it on someone who has none.

All you are doing  by doing anything for him is sending the message "Gee its ok if you put your hands on me in anger. Here's a reward for that."

He knows he can treat you badly and you will put up with it. So he will continue to do that, treat you badly.

You are rewarding bad behavior.
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Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
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Re: No Contact III
#122: May 22, 2018, 06:31:54 AM
How many times has he kept his word?  How many times has he lied?
Many. On the day he asked for a divorce, he promised to go to marriage counseling again. He took that promise back within the next 10 minutes.

But I'm not proud of myself either. I do, however, keep my word.

Quote
Do whatever you want to do but if you are trying to detach and give yourself some peace and gain some self respect you cannot keep dealing with him.

I understand integrity and I admire that you have some and your word means something. You may be wasting it on someone who has none.
Oh, by now I know that. But values matter when the chips are down. My word matters to me. His may be worth less than nothing, but that is not my problem. So, I've been thinking of ways to get out of it without getting out of it. I think I'll tell him to contact me if he wants to hear about what's going on or if he needs me to send him something. That way I'll be giving him that "space" he asked for.  ::)

Since I don't actually expect him to contact me - problem solved!

Quote
All you are doing  by doing anything for him is sending the message "Gee its ok if you put your hands on me in anger. Here's a reward for that."

He knows he can treat you badly and you will put up with it. So he will continue to do that, treat you badly.

You are rewarding bad behavior.
Yes, yes I am. I've spent years making sure he is okay... it's a tough habit to break.

But I hope that seeing the divorce paperwork will dissuade him of some of that.
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Re: No Contact III
#123: May 22, 2018, 07:07:12 AM
You know Diana, you can say nothing and see how you feel after he's gone.  There is no rush to make that decision now.
You may decide you no longer want to send him things.  That's not really breaking your word, it's changing your mind.
Everyone has a right to change their mind.

If you don't send him anything, he'll get the picture.  You have 9 months to let him get used to not receiving anything from you.

This is your decision to make.  He really has no say in this, and personally, I would feel he has done nothing to make you feel guilty about if you change our mind.
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Re: No Contact III
#124: May 22, 2018, 04:30:18 PM
You know Diana, you can say nothing and see how you feel after he's gone.  There is no rush to make that decision now.
You may decide you no longer want to send him things.  That's not really breaking your word, it's changing your mind.
Everyone has a right to change their mind.

If you don't send him anything, he'll get the picture.  You have 9 months to let him get used to not receiving anything from you.

This is your decision to make.  He really has no say in this, and personally, I would feel he has done nothing to make you feel guilty about if you change our mind.
And this is why I love everyone here. You seem to have a happy knack for keeping my head out of my ass. I was not raised to be a mean girl. I know how to show teeth in theory. In practice, I get cold feet. I get scared of hurting people too much. I get hung up on the promises I made.

I'm not proud of myself and how I've acted in the past month, but you are right--he has done nothing to make me feel guilty about having a change of heart. Today was yet another day when he reminded me that he makes most of the money and that the money is his and his alone. He's also on the whole "this is my house and I don't care what the law says" kick again.

I have always questioned his promise to help me get through law school and I am really doubting it now. He brings money up every day now and usually it is unprompted.

And yet I do want to leave him the option to ask. Because if he does, I will know that no one sent him a damn thing. And that knowledge will warm my cynical little heart.
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Re: No Contact III
#125: May 22, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
I came to realize at the end of all this?
All it has been about is money.
So make sure if and when something happens you have a way to either protect yourself, provide for yourself, or take him for what you can get from him. Because its all they care about.
Just being a realist here.
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At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

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Re: No Contact III
#126: May 22, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
Found online Psychology Today:
         
4 Reasons to Stay Out of Contact With Your Ex

 You can't keep bouncing between fantasy and disappointment.
The sting of a breakup or divorce is painful and disorienting. Adrenaline courses through the body and the mind races. The suffering party thinks, “This can’t be happening.” And with that thought paramount, the individual seeks corrective action—talking it out with the ex, identifying the fix that will save the relationship, or in some way buying time through compromise, temporizing, papering over: Whatever it takes.

And yet the single best way to accelerate the healing process after a breakup or divorce is this: Stop contact with the ex.

If you are trying to recover from the end of a relationship, this advice may be difficult to accept. Your mind may already be working overtime to rationalize why it's OK for you to stay in direct contact. You may say that you have to give your ex-partner their stuff back. Or that you think it is best to keep living together, for a while at least. You may say that you have to check in on your ex’s family members. Perhaps there is a birthday coming up, or some other event. And what harm can it do to see what the ex is up to on social media? You assure yourself that you can break up and still stay friends.

In reality, the only legitimate reason for contact not to be avoided is if you have children and must communicate about co-parenting responsibilities—and even in that case, you should maintain boundaries by limiting conversation to matters pertaining to the children. Otherwise, continuing, or attempting to continue, communication with your ex will only prolong your suffering—and prevent you from beginning a productive process of letting go.

Here are four more reasons to stop contact with an ex:

1. You can't heal.

Ending a relationship is difficult, but the painful feelings are not permanent. You will feel sad, you will feel angry, you will feel a sense of shock that your life has taken this turn. As I describe in Breaking Up and Divorce: 5 Steps, these feelings are normal, and they're part of the recovery process. Eventually, if you allow it, a kind of acceptance will come into your life. However, if you persist in contacting or attempting to contact your ex, you are working against the recovery process and in favor of a self-defeating strategy of denial. This may buffer the blow but it cures nothing. It just allows you to put off fully accepting difficult feelings and your new circumstances. Confronting the difficult feelings and accepting the fact that your ex is no longer there means you are now on the path to healing. There is comfort in this and as you persist your world will grow brighter.

2. You can't let new energy in.

Even if you are not consciously aware of it, if you are still in contact with your ex, you are continuing to devote energy over to that relationship, which can no longer be what you need and want. Each time you talk to your ex, work to make contact, or think about when you will next be in contact, you siphon off the energy needed to pursue new life experiences.

3. You live off fantasy.

If your relationship has ended, then it's over: What you had with your ex no longer exists. It will never be the same. Continuing the connection means that a part of you is still hoping that in some alternate universe there is a chance you and your ex can be together and be happy. As a result, you live off moments of closeness. But each time you come in touch, you are reminded that you no longer have your ex and you face crushing disappointment all over again. This roller coaster gets in the way of real life and its actual opportunities for happiness.

4. You relive your mistakes.

Part of what is so hard about managing relationship endings is that the injured party tends to blame himself or herself. In some ways, a relationship ending should be an opportunity for personal growth. However, it is a mistake to remain, or attempt to remain, in contact with an ex in the hope of achieving a chance to do things over.

Like a character in Groundhog Day, you'll wake up with the same fears and upsets about yourself as you did the day before. This is because maintaining contact keeps you stuck in limbo: You can’t be with your ex but you can’t move on. Once you let go—completely—you gain the freedom to live, mostly unencumbered by the regrets and hurts of yesterday.
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Re: No Contact III
#127: May 22, 2018, 11:57:03 PM
Diana, like you I have a strong value about 'keeping my word'.
However, only an idiot fails to review and change their mind to adapt to fast-changing or uncertain events.
Wise advice to let it be...see what happens/how you feel later...and that you should do what is best for you.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: No Contact III
#128: May 23, 2018, 05:48:30 PM

However, only an idiot fails to review and change their mind to adapt to fast-changing or uncertain events.

 :)
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Re: No Contact III
#129: May 24, 2018, 04:03:22 PM
I came to realize at the end of all this?
All it has been about is money.
So make sure if and when something happens you have a way to either protect yourself, provide for yourself, or take him for what you can get from him. Because its all they care about.
Just being a realist here.
You know, if he hadn't found that woman and told me to stay out of my own home while he brought her down, I would have lived with my in-laws for a year, used every penny of his income and my student loans to pay down joint debt, would have never gone out to see a lawyer, and would not have asked for a penny after we signed the papers.

That was a wake-up call, and judging by his attitude since I came back, a timely one. Since coming back, I heard that I own nothing in that home, that he pays for everything and he doesn't care what the law says - it is not my home anymore, and that he hates the idea of me using his money for anything other than loan payments and other joint bills because why should his money be spent on "other people." Oh, and since he kept a roof over our heads for 7 years, he did not have to do anything else for me or our marriage.

So now I'm going to make sure I get every penny that he owes me by law. After that beating, you can add his separate retirement savings account to the list of things I expect. He can sign it over to me quietly or I can sue him for intentional tort. I think he'll pick the former.

Diana, like you I have a strong value about 'keeping my word'.
However, only an idiot fails to review and change their mind to adapt to fast-changing or uncertain events.
Wise advice to let it be...see what happens/how you feel later...and that you should do what is best for you.
Ouchie! I deserved that!  ;D

I guess, I'm just trying to keep as much of myself as I can through all of this. Maybe I should use how I treat people other than my husband as a measure of how good a person I am... he may not be the best yardstick at this point.
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Re: No Contact III
#130: May 24, 2018, 04:26:07 PM
You teach people how to treat you.
In your H's case? Needs needs a new wake up and smell the coffee lesson.
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Re: No Contact III
#131: May 24, 2018, 04:28:10 PM
You teach people how to treat you.
In your H's case? Needs needs a new wake up and smell the coffee lesson.
He does. But am I teaching him the right one?
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Re: No Contact III
#132: May 24, 2018, 05:26:08 PM
Whats right for you? Is staying in contact helping you?  Do YOU feel good when and after YOU have had some communication with him? Or does it leave you feeling anxious insecure and fearful after a while?

Does he have any respect for you at all? If not? What do you have to lose by going no contact for a while?

Regain some peace sanity and clarity.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

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You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#133: May 24, 2018, 06:08:09 PM
Whats right for you? Is staying in contact helping you?  Do YOU feel good when and after YOU have had some communication with him? Or does it leave you feeling anxious insecure and fearful after a while?

Does he have any respect for you at all? If not? What do you have to lose by going no contact for a while?

Regain some peace sanity and clarity.
I'm thinking about both contact and the financial side of things. I was willing to be his friend. I was willing to walk away with a pair of suitcases and our 3 cats... But circumstances change.

Having no contact with him will actually be quite nice, to be honest. Having him out of my house will be nice. I am tired of trying to find places to go and people to see or having to go and sit in a Panera Bread until my next meeting/appointment/event. I want to close my door and be at peace. When I move into my new apartment, I cannot even imagine hearing from him. It is my new life and my new chapter... and I'm not sure I want him in it, at least not the way he is right now. I can't deal with that and I shouldn't have to. If he asked me, I'd send him a care package. If he emailed wanting to know how I am doing, I'd reply. But do I want to do those things even if he initiates contact? I have no idea.

Getting everything I can in the divorce will also benefit me quite a bit. But the motivation is more than financial. After he basically blackmailed me not to come home and flew his OW down, I'd be okay if he spent the next 3.5 years eating nothing but canned tuna and beans... but then the part of me that has always thought of him and I as "us" tells me that I should file for adjustment of alimony (read: reduction/negation) as soon as I start receiving my JAG paychecks (and no, normally it would be the job of the spouse paying the alimony to file that kind of a petition).

Yeah, he needs lessons, but I have no idea which ones or if I have the stomach to teach them to him.
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Re: No Contact III
#134: May 25, 2018, 05:33:27 AM
Well you may not have to stomach it..these lessons may just happen with cutting off contact.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

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Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#135: June 13, 2018, 05:58:28 PM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
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Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#136: July 25, 2018, 10:38:05 AM
Found online:

Breaking No Contact: How to respond to breadcrumbs from the Dumper if at all

 I wanted to discuss the topic of what you should do ideally if the dumper decides to reach out to you in your period of no contact. For some of you reading, this would be the ideal situation given the incredible pain and sense of loss you’re experiencing due to their sudden or prolonged absence in your life.

But not all contact from the dumper is indicative of reconciliation or is made with the intent of getting back together. As the dumpee, it can be very difficult to discern if the contact from your ex is them testing the waters with you to see if it possible to revisit the relationship again or if the contact is borne from more selfish, inconsiderate reasons which do not take into account your emotional well-being or your progress and can actually serve to damage your self-esteem and hurt you even further. The latter contact from the dumper is called breadcrumbs.

The Definition of Breadcrumbs

What are breadcrumbs? Basically any contact from the dumper that does not communicate the clear intent of reconciliation. And YES, this includes: “I miss you,” “How are you doing? I care about you and hope you’re doing okay,” “I’m sorry it has to be this way,” “You still mean so much to me,” etc. Nowhere in these texts do they convey the need to start again or work on the relationship. As tempting as it may be to respond in kind (and trust me I ALWAYS speak from experience), what often happens is the dumper backs off in contact again the moment they are aware that you are still willing to get back together with them at a moment’s notice.

During your period of no contact with the ex, this is the time when they are experiencing the consequences of their decision and can truly feel the magnitude of your absence. There could be a multitude of reasons why they have decided to reach out (loneliness, perhaps a recent rejection from a girl they were pursuing, maybe even rocky times with someone they’re currently dating or in a relationship with, or the lack of sex etc.) and hearing from you is a way to boost their ego (make them feel desired), assuage their guilt for hurting you, or reassurance that they can go back on their decision (as they’re now starting to feel traces of doubt) and that you’re still a good back-up option.

How to Respond to Breadcrumbs

The best way to respond the breadcrumbs (if at all, you can definitely choose to ignore them in favor of your healing) is to be polite and short, and re-state your need for no contact. An example of a response to ‘I miss you,’ – “Thank you for letting me know. I respect your decision and wish you well.” This shows your ex that you are moving on and that reconciling with you (if that is their wish) will take more work than just words with no follow through. You are coming from a place of self-love and high value where you are demonstrating to your ex that you are living a life free of the need for their validation.

If they ask you how you are doing, again, keep in mind that you don’t have to respond. No Contact should make you and your ex mysteries to one another. Why should your ex know about how you’re doing and what you’re up to when they made the decision to remove you from their lives? If you choose to respond, again as with any breadcrumb, be polite and short. “I’m doing well. Best wishes.” Always close-ended. If your ex truly wants reconciliation they will not stop at one text and they will make themselves clear.

You ask yourself, but what if they think I hate them or that I’m being rude? Common concerns when you do want to get back together with your ex. Keep in mind that nowhere in your responses are you rude. You’re simply refusing to engage further conversation. Because unless they want reconciliation, you are prolonging your healing by keeping contact with your ex and they get to feel better/less guilty and more secure in their decision to break up with you because hey, the dumpee is still a good plan b if this whole being single thing doesn’t work out. And if you chose not to respond? How is that being rude? They are your ex and they broke up with you. They cannot expect you to respond as you would when you two were together. Your healing comes first.

Breadcrumbs vs. Reconciliation

Realistically, reconciliations will need to start somewhere. Dumpers will send out feeler texts that resemble breadcrumbs in order to gauge the dumpee’s willingness to get back together (as some dumpees may have longed moved on with someone new or simply harbor too many negative feelings towards the dumper to ever consider speaking with them or reconciling as you see in cases of where the dumpee has been cheated on).

The difference between true attempts at reconciliation versus breadcrumbs is typically that the dumper’s contact will increase over time even after you send a polite and short response or ignore them completely. Contact will keep coming. Sometimes this can set the dumpee back in a big way as they are unsure what the dumper’s motives are and the repeated contact can encourage hope in the dumpee’s heart.

At some point, the dumper will ask ‘to talk’ or ‘meet up’ if they haven’t already stated in their messages that they miss you and have realized they made a mistake and would like to try again. If they ask to meet up or talk without the expressed regret of breaking up with you, you are more than free to ask them “Why would you like to talk?” or “Why would you like to meet up?” that way you can determine whether or not seeing your ex again is beneficial to you.

By all means, if you have long moved on and see your ex purely in a platonic way (this means potential news of them being madly in love with someone else will not be hurtful to you), there is no danger catching up. But if you are still hung up on your ex and are working on actively moving on, it’s important to protect yourself as meet up’s can result in having sex with your ex where there was no discussion or mention of getting back together. Your ex can then say, “That was a mistake,” or “I never said we were getting back together.” And again, you are back to square 1 of your healing.

Are Dumpers that selfish?


The way I write about dumpers may seem unforgiving or as if they exist only to bring pain and misery to your lives. I’m not saying dumpers aren’t human, you know your dumper better than any of us here and would have a truer idea of what his or her motives are for breaking no contact with you. Break ups are a painful, confusing time for everyone, not strictly the dumpee.

Loneliness strikes both parties and it’s natural for your dumper to miss you and the deep friendship and emotional bond you two shared over the course of your relationship. This can extend to sex. But take care: missing someone is not the same as wanting them back. Your ex can’t simply choose the parts of the relationship they want to keep (friendship, sex) and the parts they don’t (commitment, monogamy, etc). If they make a decision to break up with you, they chose to lose ALL OF YOU. They thought about this for a while, debated the pros and cons. And arrived at the decision that their lives would be much better by ending their relationship with you. Respect that decision. And let them live with it through no contact. For the dumper, it’s one thing to think about never seeing or talking to your girlfriend or boyfriend again, quite another when the reality is actually unfolding and their forced to come to grips with the decision they made because you the dumpee are keeping solid with no contact.

You are making it easy for them to move on from you by remaining in contact “as friends” or “exes with benefits” while they pursue others, and harder for you to move on, heal and mend your heart, and be open one day to someone who actually wants to be with you. By choosing to remain in contact and settle for being in limbo, you are reaffirming your ex’s belief that they can find someone better because if you can’t walk away out of self-love and out of recognition of your own value, then you must not be someone worth having. It’s basic human psychology. This is not games, this is about you taking the time and space for yourself to move on from someone who has hurt you and who saw no future with you.

In short, always put yourself and your healing first and be the guard of your own heart. Do not entrust it to someone who has broken it before with so little to go on. This is my personal opinion born from my own experiences and other dumpees’. It is your life and you make the choices you can live with. Just remember that you are number one. Keep up the no contact everyone.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#137: July 25, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Good one, In It.

Thanks for sharing.   :)
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Re: No Contact III
#138: July 25, 2018, 11:03:52 AM
Yeah I thought that one might make it a little clearer if someone thinks they want to have anything to do with these people again.
Trusting again IMHO is going to be the biggest hurdle if you think you want to reconnect or reconcile.

 And whew after what these people did to their own families in order to be happy?

I wouldn't ever trust the same person again. I'm not into misery and pain thank you very much. Had myself enough of that. I wouldn't want to work back through the memories with them..all the questions and the answers. What you would have to do in order to feel that they were being honest with you after all the lying. Not for me, no thank you.

It's a struggle to trust someone new in another relationship.  :P ::)

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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#139: July 25, 2018, 11:11:26 AM
I hear you.

I particularly loved the How to Respond to Breadcrumbs.  Excellent advice.
I hope everyone reads it.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: No Contact III
#140: July 25, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
Good post.

This is basically what I have been doing. No drama. I do no respond to anything unless it's about my daughter and it's right to the point. It's been 3 years of doing this, and I'm doing great. If he ever wants to reconcile he would have to do all the work.
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Re: No Contact III
#141: July 25, 2018, 11:29:32 AM
Good for you Reb2817... :) How did you realize that was the way you needed to be?

I have a friend who told me the phrase " No audience no behavior" (No drama)

I hope everyone reads it too T

Hard to tell how many are ready to read about no contact. But in most of these cases its the only way you are going to grieve the loss, save your sanity, detach ( using anger if necessary) gain some sense of peace and balance, be able to think straight focus on healing. Arrive at acceptance. Then rebuild yourself and your life.

You can NOT continue to allow them distract you from what you are feeling  or going through and focus on them. What you allow continues.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#142: July 25, 2018, 12:38:05 PM
I just knew I couldn't handle being in his life. It was to hard on me. And then I realized I'm to good for him. If I met him now, I would have no interest in him. Every time I cycle and miss what he was I make my self remember what he did to me and my daughter. Makes it very easy to stay away. He is back to no eye contact. Now I look him right in the eye. I have nothing to be ashamed of. By the time he gets his self together, I will have probably moved on. I'm not waiting for him
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Re: No Contact III
#143: July 25, 2018, 01:03:27 PM
Yeah I kinda get what you are saying.  All of it was very hard on me( and my oldest daughter)  too and I really should have thrown the boundaries up immediately. My problem was I thought it was an MLC and it wasn't. He was simply abusive and since I was somewhat used to dealing with that and the drama and chaos that comes along with it I continued too try to remain in contact and shouldn't have.

Once I realized I deserved to be treated better that was the end of it..took a lot for me to get there.

And that's what I've either heard or read online. Also there a difference between women and men in this usually. Sometimes if women just go on with their life ( I don't mean to sound flip) men may return. It will then be the woman who has moved on and could not be less interested in that relationship with that history.

 A woman however once she's done that's pretty much it.

You've done a good job of your focus Reb2817. When you focus on what they have done instead of the person they used to be? That part has so much pain and heartache tied up in it.

 The person they turned into, this person who inflicted this pain and had zero respect for what anyone else was going through.,(in my case seemed to actually enjoy inflicting the pain) sort of wipes out anything else..so much negative makes it difficult to find any positive.

But at the very least you are being realistic and not romanticizing the relationship. You aren't making excuses or enabling. You aren't letting him off the hook for him having an MLC.

 Well done Reb2817!!
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#144: July 26, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
The information really resonated with me.  After 7 months of NC, I have had thoughts that "maybe" we could engage in a conversation.  BUT, then I remember all the ugly things he did and said to leave me for another woman.  The last time we spoke, I told him that I wasn't willing to accept breadcrumbs, and he needed to not contact me again.  I heard through the kids that he says things like " LBS doesn't want to be my friend."  That shows that he has no empathy for me.  He thinks I am punishing him for cheating and leaving.  He did send one text in the past few months about a financial matter.  In it, he asked how I was and said that he wanted to see me, and would "wait forever," for me.  I responded in a business matter, and ignored the personal message.  Nothing since then.  I miss him, but contact would only set my healing behind, so I choose to remain silent.
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H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

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Re: No Contact III
#145: July 26, 2018, 09:59:03 AM
Good for you Shining Star!!!

 You are so very smart and very strong!

I am sorry but I find it quite comical after what they have done, and all the pain and hurt they have caused they would think we would want be their friend. :o

I mean really, what planet are they living on? And that's the whole thing. YOUR emotional healing would be setback having any interaction with him. They are an EX for a reason.

You are doing a wonderful job of protecting yourself!
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:13:20 AM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

S
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Re: No Contact III
#146: July 28, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
Hey In:  thanks for the encouragement.  I think we are all doing an amazing job in our own way.  They want to be our friend to make themselves feel better - it is not about us, which is why I am not interested.  Maybe one day, if there is a shift, and he starts to acknowledge the cruelty and destruction he caused to someone he says he still loves - not my definition of love.
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H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

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Re: No Contact III
#147: July 29, 2018, 03:30:18 AM
Exactly Whatever that was? It wasn't love.
Even if the whole relationship you thought it was "perfect".Whatever that was at the end was cruel, brutal, and heartless..
And anyone who thinks that was love  (or is)  seriously needs to take a good hard look at themselves and figure out why they think they deserved to be spoke to and treated like that.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#148: August 14, 2018, 06:27:26 AM
Bump
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#149: August 14, 2018, 09:25:44 AM
i have no idea if my xh ever loved me at all or if i was just useful
but i do know for sure that love or even respect doesn't look like this
and i would never treat anyone, even a stranger, with such brutal contempt or anger
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: No Contact III
#150: August 14, 2018, 11:13:57 AM
I know makes you wonder doesn't it?

And for anyone to suggest "be patient and kind" through this mess (because they will remember that  ::)) and the kind of spew that comes out of their mouths and utter disregard and mistreatment and lack of respect these creatures have for us as human beings is simply unacceptable.
It's said don't take this personally..sorry I take what happened to me pretty personal.

Their issues are not for you to figure out. You have to figure out why you would put up with what you did or do. What made you think or feel that's the way people treat each other in a loving caring relationship? Or during a divorce? Or even when a relationship is over with?

If you felt used Treasur ask yourself why did or do you feel that way? I'm sure you wouldn't want to feel that way again in another relationship. That's why in OP's greeting it's focus on you.

If someone here feels you had a good marriage and then this happened. Where were you tuned out in the relationship?
You need time to heal and think and focus on you and if you have tried everything except no contact, try it.

Don't answer every phone call or email or text. There is no reason for it.( A mistake I made years ago)

 They are getting what they want (the ow/om, whatever in regards to a settlement, their freedom etc) and they are still not happy? Whoa....big surprise there. :o

For most that post here there is an OM/OW involved. They are big boys and girls. They are making a choice. Cheating is a choice not an ailment. As are any other of their ridiculous behaviors. No one is making them do what they are doing against their will. Do not allow them to create chaos in your life or try to control or manipulate you. Refuse to play this game with them.

Give yourself some time to grieve, heal and think. Have compassion for yourself. Love yourself first. The only way I could get any clarity and peace was to go no contact. It might work for others.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact III
#151: August 14, 2018, 12:44:49 PM
Good post, InIt!

Do you want to start a new discussion thread?   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: No Contact III
#152: August 14, 2018, 01:05:39 PM
Yep started a new one thanks T  :)

New thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10344.0
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 01:52:45 PM by Thunder »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

 

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