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Author Topic: Discussion Book Recommendations

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Discussion Book Recommendations
OP: June 03, 2010, 06:36:44 AM
A friend gave me Jessica Bram's book, hoping it would help me feel that things after divorce aren't so bad. I actually felt angry after reading it. The book had some positive reviews but I wrote that I thought it was about an avoidable family catastrophe and a tragic journey, not a joyful one. See http://www.amazon.com/Happily-Ever-After-Divorce-Journey/product-reviews/0757307582/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1.
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:28:06 AM by Rollercoasterider »

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Re: Book Recommendations
#1: June 03, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
That was an awesome review!

I have not read the book--and the topic so sickens me that I don't think I could read it. I want to write a screaming review and that wouldn't be fair.


Thanks.


What did you tell your friend?
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Re: Book Recommendations
#2: June 03, 2010, 10:51:51 PM
I haven't said anything to the friend yet, but may do so this weekend when I see her. This friend wants the best for me, but participates in the dysfunction by cutting my wife out of her life despite a good relationship in the past. All she can see is that "she hurt you" and refuses to reach out to her to help make the path back seem less daunting. That behavior by my friend is its own abandonment of me, and makes my wife's abandonment of me worse, not better.

As difficult as it would be, I think it would help the world if you would read Jessica Bram's book and then write a review on Amazon.
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Re: Book Recommendations
#3: June 03, 2010, 11:01:49 PM
I think that Standing is my way of saying to my wife, "We can do better". I refuse to tell our children that we just did the best we could, the best anyone could do or the best that can be done.

WE CAN DO BETTER!

A shattered family is NOT the best we can do.

I have a lot more to say about this, including a five page letter that I think judges should require the divorce-seeking spouse to read, out loud, in court, to children, friends, relatives, community members, unless there is intimidation and abuse by the left behind spouse. It's WAY WAY WAY too easy to use divorce as a relief valve for internal pain and pressure.

RCR, should I post the letter, or is that too long for the forum format?
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Re: Book Recommendations
#4: June 04, 2010, 05:27:58 AM
Do you have it on a web page. Just post a link to it.

I hear what you are saying but I don't think that a MLC'er hears anything, while they are in their crisis, that would turn them around.
Reading the letter in court  would not accomplish anything IMHO. MLC is a process, NOTHING speeds it up.

I totally agree with your thoughts about a shattered family.

Just as an aside I was communicating with a man in Eygpt where it is illegal to get a divorce. His wife is in MLC. It doesn't really change anything for him, she still has to go thru the process.
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Re: Book Recommendations
#5: June 04, 2010, 07:26:18 AM
Onmyfeet,
Quote
I have a lot more to say about this, including a five page letter that I think judges should require the divorce-seeking spouse to read, out loud, in court, to children, friends, relatives, community members, unless there is intimidation and abuse by the left behind spouse. It's WAY WAY WAY too easy to use divorce as a relief valve for internal pain and pressure.
RCR, should I post the letter, or is that too long for the forum format?
Though OldPilot is correct that it might not help the MLC or relationship situation, I think writin a letter and even making it public can be personally cathartic--at least you feel you get to have your say. My Mom is one of those who encourages writing for cathartic purposes and then burning.

ARGH! I am a writer and burning something I write hurts, I mean hurts. This helps some, but for me part of the benefit is in the public sharing--otherwise it seems without purpose.
Definitely post the letter here. But understand that people may love it and yet recommend you not share it outside of the forum. This is the sort of topic I created the Discussion icon for--and oops, when I changed your original icon I meant to use the discussion, not the Off-Topic--I will correct that when done with this post.
I recommend you start a new topic for the letter. Make it so that you are inviting debate and discussion--hearing all sides of the matter. Maybe other will post similar letters.
One thing I did was created a reconciliation contract. I did it long before Sweetheart was ready, but made him review it when moving home even though he did not follow it.
(If anyone can get Braveheart over here...seriously. When I created the discussion category, I put Braveheart in my notes as the leader.)
I don't know if there's such a things as too long--especially since I've sometimes had posts that are 10 pages single-spaced garamond 12 pt in MS Word.
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Re: Book Recommendations
#6: June 04, 2010, 11:47:17 AM
Quote
I refuse to tell our children that we just did the best we could, the best anyone could do or the best that can be done.

I once read a quote from Dr. Phil. It has been in the back of my mind ever since.

"If you can look your child in the eye and honestly say that you did everything you could to save your marriage and their family, then it is okay to let go."
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Re: Book Recommendations
#7: June 04, 2010, 06:07:45 PM
Still

That is a wonderful benchmark for the LBS to use.

You are right it is about looking our children in the eye so as they know we fought hard to save the marriage. It is also about knowing that we did everything we could to save the marriage for ourselves.  Only then will there be some amount of peace.
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Re: Book Recommendations
#8: June 08, 2010, 06:32:12 AM
I thought I’d start a thread based on a book I’m reading, “In Midlife” by Murray Stein. It’s Jungian in perspective. I will add quotes to all direct quotes. Please pick up the book if you’re looking to understand MLC more in depth, it’s very good and a great companion to “The Middle Passage” by James Hollis.

It may be helpful to some to discuss some of the concepts in here. Many of them can be found in a very easy to understand form on RCR’s resources and articles.

There are seven chapters.
1.   Hermes, Guide of Souls through Liminality
2.   Burying the Dead: The Entry into Midlife Transition
3.   Liminality and the Soul
4.   The Return of the Repressed during Midlife Liminality
5.   The Lure to Soul-Mating in Midlife Liminality
6.   Through the Region of Hades: A Steep Descent in Midlife’s Liminality
7.   On the Road of Life after Midlife

This book was originally presented as an eight week seminar in 1980.

Chapter 1 introduces Hermes as our “guide” through Liminality. He defines liminality by using the Latin root limen meaning doorway or threshold, a borderline space. This brings to mind in my memory a Christian saying that we, as LBSs, are “standing in the gap.” In a very abstract, visual way, we can then see ourselves as standing in a gap between their worlds and ours, bridging the two, and this is where being the lighthouse or attractive force comes in.

The author brings up that subliminal comes from the same root word, referring to “a threshold between consciousness and the unconscious portions of the mind.”

An interesting note from this chapter, which I will quote in full, is this: “Inner ground shifts, and because the base is not firm a person can be easily influenced, pushed and blown about. A sudden happening will make a more than normally deep impression, like an imprinting. More malleable in liminality than otherwise, a person may carry the effect of such imprintings through the rest of a lifetime.” This seems to suggest that during liminality, we can have a strong impact on our MLCer. Let’s make sure that we use this to our advantage, but also that we do it with love, kindness, and without any thought of controlling them.

The author also introduces in this chapter the idea that a person lives the first half of their life presenting a face to the world, a persona, and the second half after midlife transition, becoming themselves.
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Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.  ~Mark Twain

Once a woman has forgiven her man, she must not reheat his sins for breakfast.  ~Marlene Dietrich

The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.  ~Ghandi

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Re: Book Recommendations
#9: June 10, 2010, 02:06:56 PM
Chapter 2: Burying the Dead

The author here talks about how we all know about MLC happening, but just think it won’t happen to us. The theme of this chapter is separation.

Quoting: “As the midlife transition begins, whether it begins gradually or abruptly, persons generally feel gripped by a sense of loss and all of its emotional attendants: moody and nostalgic periods of grieving for some vaguely felt absence, a keen and growing sense of life’s limits, attacks of panic about one’s own death, and exercises in rationalization and denial.” He goes on to say sometimes the cause is obvious but sometimes it is not. Or even if a cause seems to be obvious, they keep looking for another cause, something deeper.

He mentions that typically the midlife falls between the ages of 35-50 and usually is at age 40. There are some features of it that are the same for all: “persistent moods of lassitude and depression, or feelings of disillusionment and disappointment either in life generally or in specific persons who have been formerly idealized; youth’s dreams of happiness and fulfillment melt away or are rudely shattered; death anxiety steals in, and a sense that time will run out before one can get down to ‘really living’ is frequently reported…” He then mentions physical aging and aging of children, who have more independence now.

During this period there is a lot of what he terms “restructuring” of the person and personality underneath them. He describes here how there is a breakdown of the “persona, a psychological structure that is the approximate equivalent of what Erik Erikson calls the psychosocial identity, accompanied by the release of two hitherto repressed and otherwise unconscious elements of the personality: the rejected and inferior person one has always fought becoming (the shadow), and behind that the contrasexual ‘other,’ whose power one has always, for good reasons, denied and evaded (the animus for a woman and the anima for a man)

Jung believed that a prolonged journey could lead one to finding themselves. He himself reinvented himself during his MLC. During this time, they make a shift from a “persona-orientation to a Self-orientation.” In other words, they become individuals for the first time ever, and are not just a reflection of their family, upbringing and societal roles.

He divides this transition into three stages: separation, liminality and reintegration.

He then spends a good deal of time talking about Hektor from the Iliad which is fascinating, but I’ll spare you the details. Basically, he’s a hero that goes into battle and dies, knowing ahead of time that he will, despite his wife begging him not to leave her a widow, because he can’t get away from the role that his people have put him in. He’s a hero because they say he is and he can’t not be a hero. He is essentially stuck in the first half of his life, never having attained individuation.

He states that a crack must appear in order for the crisis to begin, a moment of “conscious realization” to begin the separation that occurs in the beginning of the crisis. He goes on to say that a person may experience a crisis or critical defeat at midlife and not go into crisis, they may maintain the illusion that nothing is wrong, thereby propping up the corpse of their identity. He claims that if this happens, a certain “stench” can be detected and it becomes obvious to those around them. This is an incomplete separation from the earlier persona identification.
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Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.  ~Mark Twain

Once a woman has forgiven her man, she must not reheat his sins for breakfast.  ~Marlene Dietrich

The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.  ~Ghandi

 

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