Author Topic: MLC Monster A view from the other side - Various Fog stories  (Read 69328 times)

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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MLC Monster A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« on: November 01, 2010, 08:56:27 PM »
After much thinking I have decided to put mself out there.
I am in the unique situation of having been on the other side of the fence. I was the one who walked away.
I did not suffer MLC.  I was severely depressed.  Severely, but the more I read about MLC the more I can relate what they do to what I did.
I was a vanisher.  My MLC is a clinging boomerang.

So to start off I see so many people worrying if its MLC or depression or a breakdown or...
It doesn't matter. 
No really it doesn't.
Even though I wasn't MLC I recognise alot of the script they use as my own.  Pretty scary hey?

Everyone is unique but everyone is also the same.

The only time it will make a difference is if there is no depression involved, and all the cases I have read here so far indicate depression of some sort.

So whether it is MLC or depression treat it the same way.

As I wander down my path and read what others say I flinch, physically and mentally as I realised that was me.  Thing was H and I never dealt with it properly and now 9 years down the track his fears raised their head on top of his MLC and we need to deal with not only his betrayal of me but mine of him.  A big ask but not impossible.  I did not cause his MLC but I contributed to the breakdown.

So here it is, I am going to try and answer any questions you have.  This is my perspective and unique to my situation.
If you don't want to ask it here PM me and I will post a reply here without names attached.
I will do my best.

(Edit for typo)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 03:26:16 PM by Hope Floats »
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 09:12:03 PM »
Did you take the girls with you?   How did you balance this with H if you were a vanisher?  Did you get an apartment? 
How did you spend your time?   What did you do?  Did you entertain thoughts of OP?

You said you were gone for 9 months and knew you wanted to come back after six?  What led you back?   How did you approach H?

How did you come out of the depression?  Postpartum right?  My friend had it only for a couple months but it was bad....she said she felt like a shadow of her former self

So nice to have your perspective SL....thanks for being open
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.  ~Oscare Wilde

M 33
H 33
Married 9 years
3 children (D8, D3 and S7months)
BD-Spring of 2009 EA
H Filed 09/2010

Offline LettingGo

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 09:49:36 PM »
OMG... Shantilly... you are really putting yourself out here... I promise you are safe. I just know it... just tell what you want to tell. (((hugs))) to you, and thank you...
"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

-- Will Rogers

The softest of stuff in the world penetrates quickly the hardest insubstantial. It enters where no room is...

Lao Tsu

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 10:13:16 PM »
I took the girls with me.  Part of me knew that they were the only thing that was keeping me in reality at all, making me get up in the morning to look after them.  at the time they were 3yo and 6 months.
I fled 10 hours away.
But H was persistent and altho he had every right to he did not ask the courts to force me back.  Instead he would drive up and see them.  This fact alone when he slipped into MLC is the reason as much as OW may insist he WILL NOT give up his girls. EVER.  She will lose him if he thinks she is threatening his girls.  Didn't stop him being monster in the begining but once he left he settled pretty quickly with them.
I lived in a house by myself and went to work.  I advertised for a baby sitter and was luck enough to find a really good one.  She was very supportive of me.  More like a grandma LOL.
When not working I cried a lot.  I remember going to visit him but that is all.  MIL was there and she told me how much like a wild animal I was.  In fact I was so bad the H locked the doors and hid the keys to keep me from driving away.  I don't remember that although as the speak it it rings true.
Shortly after that episode and realising how dangerous I was to myself and my girls I sought out help.  I was popped onto medcation and had to try several meds before one worked.
While by myself I thought mainly.  I learnt how to sew and started making things.  I was not one to go out a lot.
I thought continuosly of H.  He was a good man and still is.  we had problems and I had a big problem.
Once the fog started to lift  I really realised MY mistakes. I was still relieved when he started dating as it took the pressure off of me.
I was not ever interested in dating.
What led me back?
I loved him even though right at the beginning if he had dropped dead in front of me I would have stepped over him.  Once the depression lifted real feelings came back.  the meds helped me.  Without the meds I would have killed myself eventually I KNOW this.
Hmmm How did I approach H?
Well it was near Xmas and I headed down deciding i was simply going to ask.  When I got there there was a woman who using body language only declared H was hers now.  I was truly upset at that point and went to back off.  But H knew me well and prodded me till I spilt what I had been going to do.
He came back a week later and asked me to do some things to prove myself which I did.  i asked one thing of him and he did and we started a new life together.  It was hard at first and I was jumpy and feared losing him.  H was never one to talk.
Over the years he would make a comment and it would make me sick inside and i would try and explain that is not how it was but he never understood.
The thing is H is more understanding now when it is H not the alien or monster.
He can see how horrible in the head it is.  now I can't say to him I know how it is.  I can empathise with him and even let him know I understand a little.
When he left he used the excuse that he had been waiting 9  years for me to leave again.  It was a factor but not everything.
People tell me I shouldn't wait and that what I did shouldn't be held against me.  It shouldn't be held against me but I know how lonely I was, how alone I felt, how unloveable I was.  And I want to be there for him.  Without the pressure.
If he were happy I would put my hands up and say enjoy your life.  I love him that much.  BUt I see where he is, and know he can't help it.  He will get there eventually but in the mean time I will make me the best person I can be and if he sees me as a beacon that is fine by me.
No matter how good I thought the relationship was it was broken, if it weren't broken I wouldn't be here.
If we are to have a future together then it must be new.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 10:20:22 PM »
Thanks LG.
I think this will be helping me as much as anyone.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline LettingGo

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 10:34:14 PM »
Shantilly, you get the unofficial prize this year as most helpful and transparent... I hope it helps you to say all these things as they are difficult, yet comforting to read for us. How we wish we could put our arms around our loved ones (whom we love to hate, with all of our own baggage!) and say "I LOVE YOU, NO MATTER WHAT!". Thank you for being so brave! Love to you.... :)
"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

-- Will Rogers

The softest of stuff in the world penetrates quickly the hardest insubstantial. It enters where no room is...

Lao Tsu

Offline HeartsBlessing

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 01:51:39 AM »
Quote
Thing was H and I never dealt with it properly and now 9 years down the track his fears raised their head on top of his MLC and we need to deal with not only his betrayal of me but mine of him.

You may have contributed to his breakdown, but you didn't and don't deserve what happened, Shantilly.

Tell me, how do you think you betrayed him?  Was there another man?  I didn't see any indication there was one in your initial thread.  That would have been the only way you would have betrayed him.

It sounds to me like your body underwent a change after the six month old daughter was born; possible body/brain chemistry going out of balance.

The reason I comment thus, don't wish to hijack, but, my mother's body/brain chemistry went out of balance within 3 months after my youngest brother's birth(her third child), and she ran away; but didn't do what you did.....she left home for three days; swam the Warrior river to the middle, climbed out onto a rock; and sat there, naked as the day she was born, waiting on an answer from God.

The third day, hunger, loneliness and fear drove her back home, and she followed the fence posts to our house.

This was the early 70's; she committed herself; the doctor put her on lithium; and shock treatments.

I was 4 years old and still remember the events of the day she ran away.

Sorry again for the hijack; I can't even begin to imagine what you went through; to hear my mother later describe what she could remember was terrible; depression, feeling of worthlessness, wanting to run away and never come back.
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline True to myself

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 02:07:44 AM »
Shantilly

You are so brave and thanks so much for sharing this with us. Before my H left he told me that he felt nothing for anyone or anything. He also talked about wanting to throw himself in front of a train.

When you haven't been there, you can't possibly comprehend. Did you feel 'nothing'? I just can't imagine what that feels like. I've felt low before but nothing like this.

Another thing, my H seems to forget what sort of person I am. We are in the middle of finalising a separation agreement and he ALWAYS completely trusted me. Now, he seems to think I am trying to trick him out of money, etc. It couldn't be further from the truth. Although I think OW is probably feeding him ideas ...... it's just so sad that it has come to that.

Again, thanks so much for sharing. I'm trying so hard to understand what H is going through and I don't recognise him in the slightest. I am even starting to forget the man he ever was ..... I only remember this one, which is tragic. I am at a point where I'm not sure if I want to carry on standing and that scares me slightly. I feel cut off from the whole thing now.

xxx
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:10:16 AM by True to myself »

Offline Love being on higher grounds

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 03:37:33 AM »
Wow Shantilly, you are such a brave and kind person!

I know this will not only help me but MANY others, THANK YOU!!

hugs and love,
L
2 years since he left... divorce was filed a year ago, nothing going on right now. Seems like he and OW are done...will take some more time! Seems comfortable being around me and the girls. Relaxed without her, but does not want me...or anyone else...all that matters are his daughters...

Devoted wife and mother.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2010, 07:37:13 AM »
Oh HB there is another type of betrayal.
Really there is.
Oh man after so long it's still hard to talk about.
When I was so down I was extremely vulnerable and my Mother is extremely manipulative. My mother told me that H had touched the girls inappropriately. Now I NEVER believed it but it was one more thing incouldnt cope with. My mother set into motion terrible dealings and I refused to follow through with any of it because i didn't believe it but still had to do various things cos the complaint had been made.
When I rAn I ran to their place first and therein lies the betrayal. I know now I should never have gone there but I was lost and confused. I lasted a few weeks and then fled from there as well.
So yep sometimes I fear the damage is too great. But oddly enough I think he has forgiven me recently for that because monster never bought it up it was other stuff
Any way my sitch feels
Scarier to me becos I left and now he has left me so the fear was even greater
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline LettingGo

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2010, 07:48:05 AM »
Wow, Shantilly, you are carrying your own guilt for the betrayal with your own Mother. While I don't have anything like that in my sitch, I do recognize that my LOYALTY lay with my Mother all the years of our marriage... that I went to HER with my problems, considered HER opinion above my husband's and placed her on the pedestal of "all knowing and wise" AND took on her worst attributes. Needless to say, I have felt my own guilt over this and had to forgive myself for it even as I asked my husband's forgiveness for not honoring him as a husband. Regardless of his shortcomings, he deserved my LOYALTY. He sure has it now...

You have already learned this lesson, so now you will forgive yourself for being human.  :)
"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

-- Will Rogers

The softest of stuff in the world penetrates quickly the hardest insubstantial. It enters where no room is...

Lao Tsu

Offline HeartsBlessing

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 12:35:56 PM »
Quote
When I was so down I was extremely vulnerable and my Mother is extremely manipulative. My mother told me that H had touched the girls inappropriately. Now I NEVER believed it but it was one more thing incouldnt cope with. My mother set into motion terrible dealings and I refused to follow through with any of it because i didn't believe it but still had to do various things cos the complaint had been made.
When I rAn I ran to their place first and therein lies the betrayal. I know now I should never have gone there but I was lost and confused. I lasted a few weeks and then fled from there as well.

Doesn't sound like a "betrayal" to me; it simply sounds like your mother was trying to break down the marriage at that time...and she almost succeeded, because SHE was the one who couldn't let go of YOU.

I left my family of origin behind, and did what I was supposed to do, but my husband was the one who didn't make the break with his mother/family...and his mother was extremely manipulative and controlling; telling my husband I was having an affair when I wasn't, and a whole host of other things to try and break up our marriage.  It didn't work; but the issue of making that kind of break came up in his MLC; interestingly enough, during his MLC affair.

Running home to mother because of manipulation and control; is something that has to be broken within one's self, as when one marries they must "break" the ties that bind and strangle; and parents who won't let go of their adult children need to grow up themselves.

You DIDN'T betray your husband in these actions; your mother took advantage of your weakness and vulnerability; and she will account for these actions when the time comes.

You may see it as betrayal; but I see is someone who was unable at that time to break the hold of someone who was controlling and manipulating...and one who couldn't let go of you; that was VERY disrespectful of your mother toward YOU as an adult.

Stop blaming yourself for the web your mother was weaving of deceit, lies, control and manipulation.

You are still blaming yourself; but as you grow through all of this; you will see that although you had your part in this; your "conditioning" was the fault of your mother...as it was all you knew at that time.

As you learn another way of dealing; the guilt you have will dissolve away; and the child you were will become an adult; if that makes sense.

I had to deal with being controlled and manipulated, by my parents AND my husband.  I made my stands when it came to my married life, resulting in my dad refusing to speak to me; and that lasted until his death in 1994...Dad couldn't control me so he refused to have anything to do with me to "punish" me for my "behavior" toward him.

Yet my husband's control of me was dealt with during his MLC...and my husband accepted my boundaries, whereas my dad did not accept, and chose to walk away from a relationship with me.

This was NOT a betrayal of any sort; it was me standing up for what I believed in.

Anyway, plenty of food for thought; cut through your guilt, and see the situation for what it really was; changing what you can, and letting the rest go, last of all, forgiving yourself for being human; picking yourself up out of the dust, dusting yourself off, and go ON; leaving this all behind.

You cannot change the past, only the present, and make the future a better one.

I hope this helps you. 
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2010, 07:50:13 PM »
Thankyou it did  sometimes the outside opinion is exactly what is needed.
Your mum HB was amazingly brave to commit herself.  It's the bleakness inside.  No words can describe it truly.  THe things you loved so dearly mean nothing less then nothing even as you wish it were different.
That's the twist, you want it different but you can't.  Not that you won't, you can't.  And so you start trying to do things that will make you feel even fear is better then nothing.  Even anger.
I for a short while stole things from shops.  Stupid little things because I would FEEL something fear and then TRIUMPH becasue I put i over someone.
It didn't last long thank god.  But when I hear about celebrities who got caught stealing I go AHA.  They lost the buzz from the small stuff and just kept needing to get a feeling.  Has nothing to do with the items, generally you don't care about them its the "feeling", you are alive.
You guys have all seen it.  All of you.  The empty hollow look, as if they'v checked out but worse.
Or the flat look as the monster comes out to play.
You know why its flat?  because part of them is in conflict, the monster feels alive when he sees pain its a triumph (feeling... see I can do something...) but the person you care for is in there trying to stop, you may not believe it but we are.  And the monster doesn't want to stop becasue it feels.  Someone else is hurting not just them. And so the eyes are flat becasue the monster doesn't want oyu to see, but you do anyway, when it slips and the torment you see i ntheir eyes is there.  we have seen that too unless you have a vanisher.
I was a vanisher, I ran from H.  To PROTECT him.
I would imagine me killing him in all sorts of ways and the idea of that feeling of power... 
Often a vanisher vanishes because they see you at risk from them.
They see that you are strong and will live without them.
The vanisher goes through the same things as a boomerang you don't see it though.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2010, 08:19:51 PM »
SL
I have to say that your insight is such a blessing...you really do an EXCELLENT job of explaining these feelings....it's a real understanding....and something I need to here because I have such a hard time relating to what depression might feel like.....
All the things you're saying make sense with my sitch...H said things like
1.   It's hard.....when you don't feel for so long and then you feel something (referring to OW R..yuck...but I think more about a feeling then her)
2.  In Jan when I was pregnant....the WAY he looked at me was NUTZ and scary...I really questioned my safety at times...and I kept my distance...so I didn't become part of his obvious confusion....It was all in the eyes....resentment...really
3.  THe part you say about the eyes always gets me...they are so dead....so lifelesss....real dilation of pupils...I could pick these eyes out in others now and ....well...it tells so much....they ain't kiddin when they say eyes are the windows to the soul....When So lately I've had some strong intution when I look into my H's eyes and I do it often if he approaches me....and its that he's telling me "HE CAN'T STOP" through his eyes....now this may sound hokey but this is consistent and strong intution and you saying it tonight validated something I've felt from him.....like he's in there screaming through his eyes....the other time I saw this look in our R was when I was in labor and it was going on really long and I was really starting to suffer (cuz I"m one of those crazy nuts that refuses meds) and the look in his eyes seeing me suffering was the same....

So thank you SL for providing perspective....and for sharing with others your journey...it shines some light on the truth of what we need to see...to recognize...to  be more compassionate....

How was your R with your children during that time?   How did it change?  I know this is probably a hard topic so whatever you're comfortable with.....How did depression influence or change your R with the girls?
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.  ~Oscare Wilde

M 33
H 33
Married 9 years
3 children (D8, D3 and S7months)
BD-Spring of 2009 EA
H Filed 09/2010

Offline BraveNewWorld

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 08:38:21 PM »
Hi ShantillyLace,
                         Thanks for your insight. It feels helpful to me because I'm a husband whose wife is preparing to leave me, so it is interesting to read a woman's perspective of leaving. I think that I can see elements of depression in my wife too. She sleeps a lot for one thing. She has OCD and takes what I've been told is a fairly high dose of anti-depressants already, but they don't seem to help. She can say negative things about herself ( when she isn't saying them about me ). She has had breakdowns before - first crisis started a week after we got married.

In many ways she is the polar opposite of who she was, and in other ways I see exaggerated traits of the person she was too.

My wife wants to have the kids with her for 50% of the time - though right now at home, she doesn't spend too much time with them. She is far closer to the youngest son, and I'm a bit concerned that the older one will not get enough attention - so I'm trying to engage him as much as I can right now.

She has also suggested to me that I should find someone else. Told me that our neighbor commented that she had a friend she wanted me to meet! What!? Of course I have no eyes for anyone else right now. She has also told me that she intends to find a new husband eventually.

Her urge to leave has waxed and waned over the past year and a half until now it seems to have hit a peak.

I'll read over your words again. Thanks for writing them. Thinking of you in your current crisis.

holdingon

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 09:08:47 PM »
Ah thanks B and HO
For me when I told my H to get someone knew it was partly out of guilt, partly believing I didn't deserve them and partly really believing that H deserved to have someone who would really love him and make him happy.  i genuinely believed I couldn't do that anymore.
Buggy at first I was withdrawn from my girls even though I had taken them I was going through the motions at best.  As time passed I became a better mum and realised i could love them. 
I would interact with them more and more.  They don't remember much due to their ages but I try to be very careful with how I  behave round H and OW.
I don't like the fact they see OW so much but in the last couple of months I have noticed a marked change.  He brings them home more.  He isn't as qick to whisk them over there and the stuff she buys them he is now seeing as "crap".  Not all of it is but  it is crap when it causes fights.  I recently added a boundary stating that toys that they were given from her had to stay there.  My reasons were simple
1) I am trying to declutter and things from her I couldn't I don't want to cause conflict and be seen as the bad person.
2) If she buys it it should stay there for them to enjoy,well for me its also a matter of don't use me as your dumping ground I have enough trouble keeping the house respectable so don't add to it.  Let them deal with the pile up of things.

whoops off topic. will halt now.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline leftylulu

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 09:21:47 PM »
Thank you ShantillyLace for the wonderful insight you are giving us from what you went through. I have a vanisher and I have always felt he did this to protect me from himself. He would never intentionally hurt me. I saw him about 4 months ago and he looked like death warmed over, it spooked me. That kind of reaffirmed to me that it is exactly what he is doing, protecting me from himself. He does have OW but I know all about her and it's not love it's just a tool to keep him from himself. I hope that he can snap himself out of this. He has had dead eyes for quite sometime before he disappeared for the third time. He's been gone now for 9 months but I'm into this crisis a little over 18 months. I pray nightly for his safe return but I have been doing my own work on me. I am finding out some interesting stuff about me. This has brought out the worst in me and now it's starting to bring out the best in me. What a blessing in disguise.

Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 07:09:06 AM »
THanks SL
I was going to take the same stance if the buying toys gets NUTZ...part of it is triggers and part of it is that I hate clutter and I've done a lot to minimize it since I"m now a single mom and can decided what I want to keep and what I want to throw away without any outside opinions....so if stuff starts coming in I can't promise....if not used that it will be thrown in a bag and dumped at goodwill...so we'll see where it goes but my intuition told me to respond and you validated that....thanks so much SL you are so a wise LBS....like so many here...I Think your experience with depression is probably helping you to be very wise throughout his MLC....
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.  ~Oscare Wilde

M 33
H 33
Married 9 years
3 children (D8, D3 and S7months)
BD-Spring of 2009 EA
H Filed 09/2010

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 04:53:11 PM »
Oh Buggy I made all the mistakes, begged pleaded, angry, fought ultimayums.  It has only been about 2 months that I have dropped the rope but even then I think I still have one  tiny thin thread of it... not holding it up but just holding it.
But it has made me think and self reflect and much of what I had buried when I left is raising its head and needs my attention to forgive myself.

With the girls being given stuff I forgot to add No 3.
They fight over it, terrible fights and so I don't want that here.
As son as a fight happens I pop it away and ask H to take it back... they can deal with it if it happens over there.

H always would complain we had too much stuff so I think that may be why it makes its way here,  too bad reality is with 5 young kids there is stuff they can deal with it.  I don't want anymore.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 03:27:21 PM »
Hmmm,
MAy add something to this I read in the MLC script about the one
"It will all go back the same way"

I have to admit, it is a genuine fear.

It took me months even after realising I wanted to go back to get the courage up.  The idea of it reverting to the old was paralysing.  I didn't want the old back.  I wanted  the love and caring but not other parts of it.  So it still took agaes, and I was receiving help and was on meds so when your MLCer says that it is a GENUINE fear.

NOw him walking away this time was for different reasons.  One of the reasons was he couldn't bear to lose me.  Odd hey.  But he couldn't bear to go through it again and his depresion didn't let him see I loved him.  I was also taking him for granted so that didn't help.

Other stuff as well.  Lots of other stuff.

Now Hamp I knew about H and the fact he was dating and getting a life.

I knew.
I lived over 10 hours away.  I never talked to H except to put the girls on the phone.  And still I knew.

THe girls would tell me little things.  Mutual friends would try and talk to me.  I KNEW.
I kNEW when he stopped crying and moping around and started to GET A LIFE.

I was RELIEVED when he first started dating as it took the pressure off of me, later on when I was myself again I didn't like it at all.  But when I first left he could have dropped dead in front of me and I would have been HAPPY.

Hello I was contemplating ways to kill him off.

Knowing he was miserable put pressure onto me and i couldn't handle pressure.  I felt I was drowning trying to keep him happy.  Once he started making himslef happy I was able to oncentrate more on me and then was able to become well.

So just cos your WS doesn't talk to you or carry on or give you any signs it doesn't mean a thing.  They will know.

It doesn't mean they will come running back because they have other fears to face.  Rational or irrational does't make it any less daunting to deal with.

And believe me just becasue I KNOW what it is like it doesn't make it any easier to deal with.  It makes it harder in its own way becasue I keep thinking well I did this, and
No 1 he isn't me
and
No 2 he isn't getting any help

BUt we know.  We know if you are moping around and we hate that.  Partly guilt, partly because we think "Oh yeah I did the right thing look at what I was involved with."

Still didn't stop me making lots of mistakes becasue he is a clinger and I was a vanisher.  And what I know now is that it makes it a damn sight more confusing on how to respond with them in your face all the time.
When they are out your face you may iss them and wonder what the hell happened but you have no choice but to move on in the end.  In your face is crueller in its own unique way.

I know those that have vanishers would give their right arms for the contact but it isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Love being on higher grounds

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2010, 03:51:57 PM »
WOW and double WOW!

SL,

you just gave me some much needed hope!

My H has said those exact words too...with adding, that is why I just cant take that chance!

thoughts??

hugs,
L
2 years since he left... divorce was filed a year ago, nothing going on right now. Seems like he and OW are done...will take some more time! Seems comfortable being around me and the girls. Relaxed without her, but does not want me...or anyone else...all that matters are his daughters...

Devoted wife and mother.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2010, 04:00:41 PM »
Oh yeah that added bit.  I just can't take that chance.
Said that too.

And then when you want to take a chance because you have changed and they have changed and you look back groaning at what you said wishing you had just kept your mouth SHUT.

So there is that too, embarrasment, pride fear of rejection because if YOU have done the right thing you will have a life and they  will sit there going "where will I fit in?"

And then you take a leap and do it anyway.  Because you know there is still a chance that they love you and you did all the right things for them and yourself.  But it takes ages to do that.  It took me months to gather up the courage and ask for reconcilliation AND he was going out with someone.

There is hope but you can't hang on.

Tell me if there is a noose around someone's neck choking them do you hold onto the rope or pick up the knife and cut it?
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2010, 06:33:29 PM »
SL
I agree the constant contact has its own issues.  I really enjoy NC...it helps me move forward...It also makes what has happened psychially and emotionally feel like a more realistic physcial manifestation...in other words..this may sound harsh...but it feels like they are gone...cuz they are...it feels like they are dead...and in many ways they are psychilly dead....and like LG said a while past in one of her threads...what would you do if you lost your spouse to death..because that is what we have to do....accept we don't get all the outward sympathy and cheese platters and flowers..we get the quiet looks of sympathy....and whispers....and such....

I like the rope analogy..my therapist said if someone is drowning in an emotional ocean one of the worst things you can do is grab on...just like in real drowning...the best thing is to get control of  yourself...tread water carefully...sustain energy...maybe..just maybe your MLCer will see this and look to you and try it themselves....maybe they will save themselves...watching the LBS save themself.
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.  ~Oscare Wilde

M 33
H 33
Married 9 years
3 children (D8, D3 and S7months)
BD-Spring of 2009 EA
H Filed 09/2010

Offline BraveNewWorld

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2010, 08:43:54 PM »
SL,
     I've been reading this thread again. What do you think caused your depression? Maybe that's a naive question, but did you have a trigger? Why were you so angry at your husband do you think? Do you think you can explain some of that, or is that how depression works?

My wife told me that there were times when she wanted to stick a fork in my head! She told the OM that she sometimes hoped that I'd die in a road accident.

Those, I think are the statements that confuse me the most because I don't know what a person would have to do to me before I'd feel that way about them ... and so I think ... God, I must have been hideous to live with ... but I wonder how!?

I know that there were some things that she wasn't happy about, but I listened and did what I could to fix them. Anyway ... it feels like a waste of energy reviewing it. I can recognize where I would be more careful in a future relationship if I ever dare go there.

I think there are definite elements of a depression in my wife. She is edgy and negative. I think she has had strains of a depression for a long time, and given her history ... to be honest it is understandable.

You seem to have had similar feelings. Did you reflect on that when you got better?

Hope you're doing well.

holdingon

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2010, 04:34:39 AM »
Quote
I've been reading this thread again. What do you think caused your depression? Maybe that's a naive question, but did you have a trigger? Why were you so angry at your husband do you think? Do you think you can explain some of that, or is that how depression works?

I have lived with depression for many years.  A lovely inheritance unfortunately.  BUT I slipped control with D13 when she was born, and Post partum set in.  I fought it, hid my thoughts I was terrified that I would lose my H and my daughter and that I would be put away.  So by the time D10 came along I was absolutely ruined and really fell apart.  I was mad at him in part because I was dying inside and he couldn't see it (UHH Hello I was hiding it BRILLIANTLY) and also in part because I saw it as him renegging on a promise he had made many years before.  I was living in a town I hated doing a job I loathed (small town not many jobs) no family and had never really been able to make friends.  No internet LOL He had promised we could move after 5 years and when the time came he wouldn't so I was simmering in resentmet as well

Quote
My wife told me that there were times when she wanted to stick a fork in my head! She told the OM that she sometimes hoped that I'd die in a road accident.

Yeah it's true unfortunately by the time I left H I loathed him, planning ways of killing him (which scarily enough I could have done quite easily without any suspicion) I would have been relieved if he had died.

Quote
Those, I think are the statements that confuse me the most because I don't know what a person would have to do to me before I'd feel that way about them ... and so I think ... God, I must have been hideous to live with ... but I wonder how!?

NO not at all.  Everything is warped i the mind of a depressed person.  You know that molehill you step over it is Mt Everest worse then Mount Everst as it has no hand holds it is a glass Mount Everest covered in oil.  Thinking is not possible, you know how you are in a room and you have one person talking to you then another joins in talking over the top of the other?  Like kids trying to get your attention at the same time and you can't hear any of them?  Well it's a thousand times worse in your head.  What you should be doing as mother, wife, daughter, employee/employer trying to juggle them all as they all scream at you and its spinning. 
Everyone says here how MLC is spinning you have no idea how apt that is.  It IS spinning, blurred, noisy confusing.  And when that last thing hits and you snap it may not be anything much.  It maybe simply a bill that is going to be late.  A brthday or it could be major.  And suddenly you run and there is silence as you run.  When you stop running it starts up and so you run again. 
I was lucky I was aware of depression and went to a counsellor and trid many different anti depresants till one helped stop the screaming and I could function.  I kept busy and I was a hostess at a nightclun, working nights sometimes from 4pm till 11am the following day.  I was even luckier that I found a lovely lady who "grandmothered" me and my daughters.


Quote
I know that there were some things that she wasn't happy about, but I listened and did what I could to fix them. Anyway ... it feels like a waste of energy reviewing it. I can recognize where I would be more careful in a future relationship if I ever dare go there.

The thing is both parties are at fault.  I did try and approach H but he would tell me to build a bridge and get over it.  Still hate that saying to today.  He couldn't hear what I said till it was too late.  I would say something and be dismissed.  I felt if I could't get him to hear me about the small stuff then how was I going to get him to hear me about the big?

Quote
I think there are definite elements of a depression in my wife. She is edgy and negative. I think she has had strains of a depression for a long time, and given her history ... to be honest it is understandable.

Ok here is my take on it reading many things.  If you didn't see it coming, if no one saw it coming if there is a total personality change then it rings of depression.  A walk away spouse will make plans.  Someone will see it.  The affair when you find out you will be the last to know in depression/MLC no one knows family ad frieds are floored tehy hide it so well.  They will stash money, they will want their share.  Depression whether MLC or just depressoin is insidious because we hurt we LASH out we hurt you for many reasons
- yep to make you hurt as we are hurting so so badly
- to drive you away as we think we are going to really really hurt you
- to drive you away so you don't hurt us
- to hurt us because then we actually FEEL it.
- we don't think we deserve you wedon't like us we don't believe you could.

They go to others becasue those others don't really know them that is SAFE. they can be however they want and the OP doesn't know the truth.



Quote
You seem to have had similar feelings. Did you reflect on that when you got better?

Sadly enough I didn't reflect enough once we reconciled.  In fact we didn't discuss it and was buried, a recipe for disaster.  Most likely a rather large part as to why we are here.  So do the work I know I am mean and harsh on it but if you don't want the cycle to happen again do the work now even if it means losing them.  Because losing them a second time hurts more then you could ever know.  I came back to him forever but we didn't deal with the crap and it built in him it wasn't the only reason but in the end it is a big factor.  I still feel we aren't done and I know he feels it too. (clinging boomerang) but we have so much to wade through.  We have actually started dealing more with my sitch NOW then ever before.  I think as we deal with his feelings on it I deal with it too and understad more of what he needs.  Yo need to deal with it.  You need to do the work now so you are strong enough to deal with the stuff that follows, ignoring it won't work.  It is easier to figure it out early on and risk them going then then having years together and having them walk then.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline justkeepmoving

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2010, 05:38:39 AM »
SL,
  Thanks so much for sharing your own experience with depression.  You have described my H a tee.  He has done everything you have described.  Know one new he was so depressed and had made his mole hill into a mountain and just wanted to get off.  He hid all that he was feeling so well and when he left so abruptly everyone was floored not just me.
  He made absolutely no plans to leave, no stock piling of money, no place to go except to a friends apt. and packed only one bag.  He just needed to RUN.
  You're right too when you say that the OP doesn't know what is really going on with him or the sitch.  But I am sure that when she realizes that he is the same mess he is as when he left me she will drop him like a hot potato as she has no vested interest in him.  I'm not sure he will turn to me at that point but until he bottoms out he will not face what he's doing or what he's done.
  I've stepped out of his drama and on my own journey.  I know who I am and what I want.  It's all so sad that he doesn't.  He thinks he's happy but he looks like sh*t.  He knows I'm here as I have always been but he may not like what he sees.  I'm not the same person.  I no longer NEED him.  I am so strong and independent.  On a true path of healing.
  Early on I thought I was depressed but now recognize that I was just very sad.  I don't have the demons that he has and I thank God for that !!

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2010, 11:41:41 AM »
Sad and depressed two different things hey. Wouldn't think it but it is.

I get sad now when things get thrust into my face. A pic of him laughing holding her. Thanks young Ds. And I have doubts about things and then he'll say something and it will remind me where he truly is. Putting on the mask doing what is expected and part of me sees the smile and goes thank god he is smiling. 
We run, we do things that feel good at the time and then as we move through the depression we feel guilt for those left behind.
I do know this it takes a very special person to stand and think to try again.
Altho his leaving me left me breathless and in unbearable pain I would not have given up those extra years even if I knew that he would leave.
I love this man. I will do this for me so that when he grabs on I am able to withstand it all. I have not fully let go or fully detached but I am getting there.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline BraveNewWorld

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2010, 07:36:13 PM »
Hi SL,
         Just wanted to say thanks for posting answers. I imagine it is painful for you to revisit those times. I'm glad you recovered.

In my case I absolutely didn't see this coming. We were trying for a baby even a week before the EA began. After the EA began her personality changed literally overnight. We're entering mediation, but to my knowledge she still doesn't really have any plans for where to live. She has a vague idea of a place she can rent ... but as she says she isn't going anywhere until custody is arranged. Maybe that counts as a plan. She isn't a great planner to be fair. If it was me, I'd have a checklist ready and boxes packed.

Have you read or watched Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban? There are monsters in that book called 'Dementors'. JK Rowling suffered from depression earlier in her life and I read that she developed these characters as an embodiment of how depression felt to her. They literally suck the soul out of the vulnerable ... physically weak and emotionally damaged people. Everything turns icy when they appear. They're quick to act. The way to combat them is with the most positive memories you can make.

I think if my wife is depressed, and still grieving her dad, and her childhood. Sometimes I think she is almost paralyzed by her feelings. When all of this started ... the EA, the instant threats of divorce, the monstrous things she was saying ... I think I entered a depression too. I've had some very dark thoughts. Somehow, thankfully ... I've pushed myself forward and now I want to be strong for my children. But my wife felt/feels like a 'Dementor' to me at times ... just a turn of phrase can suck the soul out of me.

Early on and a few times since then, my wife has said things to me like 'you deserve better than me, how can you love me?', 'I can't give you what you're looking for, and you can't make me happy', 'I've spent my whole life feeling worthless'.

I really see parts of your description in her.

In our history she had a similar episode to mlc just a week after we got married. Something of a personality change. It took a year of therapy and a prescription of anti-depressants ( for ocd ) to overcome that. Then she had another ocd episode a couple of years later ... I think triggered by post-partum depression. That increased the dose. It is quite high now, and I think it may be the case that it can't be increased any more. That's a concern.

Maybe space will help her. It's a mess. I feel strong enough ( today at least ) to rebuild my life without her. But it feels like such a missed opportunity for us and for our kids.

Another question. When and how did you feel love come back for your husband? Did you find that confusing? How did you know your feelings were real?

Thanks so much for your writing and your answers.

holdingon

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2010, 08:10:22 PM »
Oh yeah the dementors apt description.

My H never saw it coming.  Not at all I can still see his face as he realised I was going. I ran. Just ran blnid to my parents which I shouldn't have and then ran again from there they hadn't anticipated that either.
Feelings can paralyse don't doubt it, never doubt it.
When did i feel the love come back?  Well for me I had started meds.  It took several months to get the right ones and in that time i was running didn't want to talk to him.  I was actually terrified of him, looking back though  knew I was terrified of what I could do to him ad so was projecting.

After I was able to start thinking again without being overwhelmed I examined feelings, it took a little while I was relieved to learn he was dating, no pressure no pressure yippee.

I thought about the good and the bad and realised the good outweighed the bad I was about 6 months in from leaving him, I started thinking about going home and then the cycling started, the what ifs, what if its the same?  What if he takes me back for revenge then dumps me?  What if what if what if?  The fear.

 still didn't talk to him no till after Xmas and then decided I would approach him.  Almost didn't.  Glad i did because although he is gone for now I wouldn't give those extra years of love we had.  He can't take away the joy I had in those years, my only regret that we didn't deal with it properly but I think god is giving me another chance.

I deal with things here and then H comes ad asks me a question about what we talk about here (he doesn't know I am here it just coincides) .  He has abandonmet issues and really who can blame him in the depths of depression.  Things forgotten come up.  I journal alot on this site.  Not just to whinge but to sort stuff out to get my issues straightened out. To get the questions that will need to be dealt with out.  Not to forget it.

I look at MLC and I see MAJOR depression, things they do or say I did or said.  Most will work their way out of it with or without help they will come out of depression, I reckon and this is just from reading that the MAJORITY of those that come out will look back to the one they loved when it all fell apart becasue the emotions aren't dead it has been put on ice and stays there until they come out.

Trouble is if it takes years then the LBS often moves on.  And that is ok.
It is hard to wait.  I have been there and still find it hard to wait. 
take the time to deal with yourself, take the time to gird your loins for when they come back they will want to escape it (me) ot face up to it, but don't be like me and H, deal with it so you don't face it again.

The second time is so much worse.

You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline HeartsBlessing

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2010, 09:11:51 PM »
Shantilly,

My heartfelt thanks for the sharing you are doing; and I pray that you will heal within yourself as you continue to share your experience.

No EVER sees this coming, regardless if they remember their parents going through or not.

This is an individual trial that is faced by the individual alone.  The Lord had shown me that it wouldn't have mattered if I'd seen it coming or not; it would STILL have happened, based on the individual issues each person has with themselves, wounds suffered from childhood forward.

The only way to avoid a MLC is to have settled the issues/aspects within, and have already learned the lessons one was set to learn....people tried to teach me long before his MLC; and I didn't understand until I finally got it during his MLC.

In your postings, you have confirmed so many things the Lord had shown me during his MLC; and the fact that if the problems that caused the MLC aren't faced, plus the aspects....it is a setup for a second round of MLC..it would come in only a matter of time.

AND the second time would be MUCH worse than the first; I'd seen that when the Lord was cautioning me to help my husband at the times I was needed to be there for him.

He said that if he didn't get through completely; we'd go through again; and the second time would be worse, because the issues and aspects would be more deeply ingrained, MUCH harder to face, than the first time, if that makes sense.

What generally happens is no one can "fix" another; if the issues aren't settled before Mid Life; they will come back during the transition that becomes a crisis.

My husband had issues I was unable to "fix"; he had to do this for himself; I had my own issues that he couldn't fix...I had to fix myself.

But, there CAN BE issues that are too painful to face during the tunnel; and these are faced afterward...it is only a matter of time before these issues come to the surface.

The final issue my husband had "set aside" during his initial tunnel was one that bit him pretty hard; and in a way, it was an extended period of crisis; yet, a different kind of tunnel for him.

It was bad, at times, because it seemed that the changes I'd made during his initial crisis weren't working at all....and I had to show some deep anger toward him for his actions toward me during that time.

In fact, things finally got so bad the Lord had to intervene and allow him to break his ankle to bring him down upon his face...nothing I did was making any difference, and I was seeing it clearly.

It was coming down to a choice I might have been forced to make...making him leave because he was refusing to carry his weight within our financial situation.

I prayed to the Lord to do whatever it took to bring him down; and the Lord showed me something would happen to bring him down; and instructed me to prepare for this.

After he went down, he saw, for the first time in his life that I could survive without him....I was paying all of our bills on my own without his help...and that rattled him in a way that wasn't shown to him in the initial crisis.

Back during the initial crisis, I didn't make enough money to survive on my own; although I could have found a way, if I'd been forced to..but I wasn't...so my husband had had the impression that I needed him financially...I believe that was some of the "pride" he'd had leftover from the initial crisis; pride that led him to his downfall this time.

When he saw that I honestly did NOT need him; that was one of the factors that turned him around in a completely different way in this go around....and it brought him forward to this secondary ending.

I cannot say with any certainty that I had anything to do with what happened this time; God worked His Will within our lives; and took care of us at the same time....and brought me to the fruition of a promise made to me long ago.

This secondary tunnel was NOT my fault...I'd done all I was supposed to do the first time around.

It was my husband who didn't face it all the first time.

Stayed once said she thought all MLC'ers come out with issues that are being settled on an ongoing basis, and she's right...as I recall, my husband was still settling issues within himself for the first two or so years.

Yet, this final one; the issue of his parent's divorce that brought forth a 7 year old child; was the most painful within him...and it was SO painful; he was unable to face it within the initial crisis.

I think he tried to run from it, but there was no more running to be done...it cried out to be faced.

So, my point is, what you don't face WILL come back to be faced; if not during the initial crisis, then afterward, or even years later....but it will return until faced and settled; even if it takes an extended amount of time to do so.


Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline Mamma Bear

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2011, 11:13:29 AM »
   Yeah I especially like when the MLCer tells us any insights gleaned : from when they were in that stupid fog filled tunnel. :o Where there is apparently no conscience or consequences for bad behavior.

Offline rememberer

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2011, 11:43:42 AM »
Luvyourself, and Mammabear,

I discussed that with my counsellor/therapist. The way she explained it is they often don't remember these things because they were 'not consciously there' to begin with. It shows that the emotional connection is very surface and not of a deep nature. Like if you were to look back at your life and try and remember all the most meaningful events-they would be the ones  where you were the most emotionally connected on a deep level to another. This just exemplifies that the relationship with the OW is 'fantasyland' and very surface. We often forget surface things very quickly because we were not emotionally invested. This person just distracts them from their real issues, keeps them from being alone which they are often frightened of, and provides the 'high' to keep the depression at bay.

Offline Ibelieve

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2011, 02:04:41 PM »
I hate fog!   :) So hard to see when driving! ::)

LY, do start your own thread, would love to hear more. Let us know here and link it.

Remember, Thanks so much for sharing you insights from your Therapist. It helps so much when you or anyone here shares that
personal info. Thanks~
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 02:10:47 PM by Ibelieve »
M 51 - H 50 /  M 21 yrs
No kids/ 1 dog
BD 11-13-10
Separated
Live w/OW for 2 years
As of 12-2012 no longer living with OW.
6-2013 told me he would like to come back.

Offline zinger

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2011, 12:29:42 PM »
Remeberer--I loved the explanation your therapist gave to memories needing an emotional connection.  My H has always had a HORRIBLE memory--about everything really.  He is one of those conflict avoiders and i wonder how much of his general lack of memory about things was that he hasn't really ever been very emotionally present in his life.  It is an intereting theory--has anyone done any reading or research on this phenomenon?

Offline Mermaid

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2011, 01:44:32 PM »
It is an intereting theory--has anyone done any reading or research on this phenomenon?
There are loads of books on this subject. Any book by António Damasio, for example, "The feeling of what happens" (a neurological basis) or Timothy Wilson "Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious" ( a psychological perspective).
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Offline hampc0cv

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2011, 03:53:35 AM »
The fog thing is what I have trouble with.  I can't believe that someone can not remember what they have done to the lbs or what they are doing to the lbs.  I just sometime think do we just say they are in a fog because we are not getting what we want and that is our way of saying they have a problem and is isn't just that they do not want to be with us anymore and we are sugar coating it so we are able to deal with it better. 
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Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2011, 06:09:05 AM »
The fog thing is what I have trouble with.  I can't believe that someone can not remember what they have done to the lbs or what they are doing to the lbs.  I just sometime think do we just say they are in a fog because we are not getting what we want and that is our way of saying they have a problem and is isn't just that they do not want to be with us anymore and we are sugar coating it so we are able to deal with it better.

My goodness Hamp no...they are NUTZ...read through the threads...BIZARRO behavior that indicates fog...they are OUT OF THEIR MINDS...it has nothing to do with the LBS getting what they want.  I think for most LBSs if we didn't see evidence of the FOG and just observed their crappy antics most of us would be done with the R.  THe fog, for me, has helped me to see that something is very WRONG with H and his behaviors are symptoms of whatever that is.  There is no excuse for their behavior but we can't ignore the fact that people in MLC are VERY sick...it's an emotional sickness...I am more compassionate to the fog whenever I find myself moving through ANGER and DEPRESSION.   I have not experienced the fog of MLC but I can feel how "out of it" you can be in depression. SL has a great understanding of the fog as she suffered from postpartum depression.  It changes who you are .  THese are not BAD boys/woman they are SAD.  Don't get sucked into believing their script Hamp...it's BS...and they contradict themselves constantly.  THey are in MLC and they are whackadoodles...lost...in a fog.

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Offline Dontgiveup

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2011, 06:16:51 AM »
Hamp

Here is part of one of the articles that discusses that.

Midlifers are not always aware of their actions. There is an awareness within each moment, but a global absence of awareness; this only becomes clear later. Driven by emotions, Midlifers are moment and self focused and often unable to link consequences and understand the relation of their behaviour to the external world. Their memory becomes fuzzy; though they may be aware of their actions during each present moment, in clarity they may not recall what takes place during fog and vice versa.

Large chunks of time are holistically blank. There may be a memory of certain events within those chunks, but the external relation to the world is lost. Events are not linked solidly to other things and thus may have no chronological placement. Time is a tangled string that rather than linear.

Offline LisaLives

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2011, 07:22:25 AM »

Maybe we should start a thread on fog stories, but since I am living one at the moment, I thought I would share.  My H maintains that he is totally unable to plan his semesters until August 15 and December 15 every academic year.  That alone is absurd because everyone knows that academic calendars and conferences are set years in advance.  So, surely he ought to be able to tell me at the very least which breaks he plans to see the kids...  But, the fog, I guess, makes that impossible.  So, in light of his planning handicaps, I sent him a note telling him that I wanted to buy theater tickets for the year, so I gave him four evenings that the boys would be on dates with me, and one weekend--not a holiday weekend, or any school off days which is our agreement (but being the b%^&* I am sometimes, it is his semester break, I checked, but since he won't tell me, I just did it in spite because sometimes in this journey you just got to get a little dig when you can).  And what did he do, he went all monster and told me that if he comes in, I will have to surrender my tickets and I have no right planning anything without communicating with him first... 

A year ago, I would have got all mad, but instead, I said, "of course dear, I have only waited three years to see In the Heights, but if you come into town, I will gladly turn over my $200 tickets to you, that seems most sensible, and something anyone would do in that circumstance."  I won't and it's not likely he'd do it, but seriously, the man is whacked...  I have heard MLC equated to a marcissistic temper tantrum, and in monster moments, they are not even the 17yo, they are 2!
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Offline BraveNewWorld

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2011, 08:14:13 AM »
I'd value a thread on the fog too.

I have a friend that is a priest and a graduate psychologist. When I first talked to him about what was going on, he told me that I was likely 'situationally depressed'.

I remember years ago wondering how a person could ever feel so unhappy that they would be compelled to kill themselves, when a girl I vaguely knew at university took her own life. And in this I know. In the small dark hours of the mornings after bomb drop, I got an answer to my question I think. Time has helped with that, thankfully.

The past two years, especially at work, have been a slog. I feel like I've had to work twice as hard to accomplish ordinary things. I've felt that I can see myself working but that I can't understand why I'm finding it so hard. Only in recent weeks, since my wife moved out, have I been able to make better progress at work and at home. So much neglect of our home in the past couple of years. [ It was making a move to paint a neglected room that prompted my wife's final decision to leave ]. I've been busy just cleaning it.

I know that my emotional state in this is a continuum, and prone to change, but I have had more moments of clarity lately - where taking the next step can be easier.

That's my only understanding of a 'fog' of depression. In my case I wonder if mine was more of a light mist than a 'real pea souper' as they say in the UK.

If you look back on this thread, I posted a message from a woman that I had contact with that came out of a MLC. She'd walked away from her family and in one of her messages she said to me that my wife 'won't know where she is' when she comes out of this.

I second the idea of a thread on fog.

Offline Dontgiveup

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2011, 08:47:02 AM »
I probably shouldn't have been, but I was caught off guard with an e-mail that my friend showed me from his ex-wife several weeks ago.  She was expressing regret and used the word "fog" to describe the last 3 years of her life.

Describing her marriage to other man (in which the divorce is now final) she said that during the wedding, she was there, but she didn't want to be, or know why she was.....yet she did it.


Offline hampc0cv

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2011, 09:18:27 AM »
BNW, I feel the same way about my work.  i cannot concentrate and feel it takes me twice as long  to get things done.  Why is it that this happens to us.  I feel like i am stupid and can't wrap my mind around anything.
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Offline Buggy31

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2011, 10:12:05 AM »
In my sitch I know my H really well..to well in fact and when he does stupid things...actually in the midst of doing them..you can see a look in his eyes that says..."I don't know what the F I'm doing."   I know it very well and I even here him give an annoyed sigh when he comes into the house and has to kiss the kids good bye or he'll say "OHHHHHHHH GOD" ....as if someone else's a** is dragging him out the door...probably is...as if he HAS NO SAY in what he's doing. 

I see this especially when I can muster up the energy to look good.  That kills him...really..he just looks mad cuz I think it reminds him he could lose me easily...that I could move on...he even stated this as a fear but it doesn't stop him.  He talked to me about this during the MLC a bit when the affair ended for a little while.  He said he couldn't stop himself.  It's hard to believe and scary but something to it...there is a part of them that is asleep and I think this is really a process that makes people face the parts of themselves they would continue to deny and supress if not faced. My .02
Pain is not a punishment, pleasure not a reward.  ~Pema Chodron

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2011, 12:32:20 PM »
Something that helps me better understand "the fog" is equating it to a temporary multiple personality disorder.  Often times we see so many different personalities within our MLC... Some days it's monster, other times it's a child we see and others a complete surprise.  ??? I have to continue to remind myself my H is in MLC when I get so angry at his behavior.  Sure there are times when I doubt his having a MLC but then he'll do something that's so off the wall Wacky and constantly contradicts himself that there's no way he's in the right frame of mind.  No "normal" person would do such a thing to those they love.   :o :o  My .2 cents worth anyway.

For the record I would LOVE a "locked thread" specific to the topic of Fog.

Much love to you all.

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Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2011, 12:40:26 PM »
Bringing some stuff over from other threads will see what i can find on threads
Why do they flee?
Because they feel they have to otherwise they will die or do something stupid.
Because they have sat on the feelings trying to deny them for the longest time because despite what they have said and how they act they do care.  they really don't want to hurt you which is why they stay.
They can't talk because they don't understand it.  They think you will leave them and they don't want you to it isn't until the last straw it snaps and is all twisted and they blame you and bolt.
It isn't you.

Imagine
Imagine you are in a deep fog and everything you see is shadowy and muffled.  when you step forward to get closer you realise there is a chasm between you and the people on the other side.
Imagine every so often the fog lifts and you see the others and you are able to join in properly even though the chasm is there.  you can talk to them and understand.
Imagine the fog closes down again.
when you turn around to escape there is a sheer wall that goes up, no hand holds just a sheer wall which even when you try to scale leaves you exhausted and upset because there are no hand holds.
You are afraid to move because the ledge is narrow and when you move stones fall and you can't hear them hit the bottom.
And the people you love are still living while you feel stuck on this ledge terrified to move.
They don't know, they don't see the ledge and the fact you are stuck.  You get angry because WHY can't they see it.  Why can't they see you are stuck.  Why can't they see that you are on this ledge as they expect you to do so much.
The only way off the ledge is to move sidewards but you can't see what is there.  you don't know if there is a ledge there really.
Imagine this, imagine that you can't see a way to escape.
And then the fog lifts and you see a tunnel and man it is far better than that tiny ledge you are standing on so you run, straight into the tunnel.  trouble is the tunnel stops its a cave and you know to really escape you have to go back onto the ledge and feel your way along the scary edge and see what is there or you stay in the tunnel.

Some people stay in the cave and some people peek out of the cave many times before being able to step back out onto that ledge.  With each movement out of the cave you move further along the ledge and then you will find the bridge that was there all along but hidden by fog.

Imagine and maybe just maybe you can understand why they flee, they have been standing on the edge looking at the chasm in fog by themselves feeling alone and terrified and the cave they flee into as awful as it feels to us is a place they can regroup and retry.
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2011, 12:47:48 PM »
I must apologise again, I just don't see errors on the phone and by the time I realise they are there it is too late!
So I am very sorry for any messes.

being broken has nothing to do with you.  we may blame you but it has NOTHING to do with you.

I was broken because of depression, I was pretending everything was fine and no one knew I had a problem.  I was screaming inside though.
I felt splintered into pieces.  loving and hating my H.  Unable to cope with the smallest of things.
So broken describes us perfectly.  we are in pieces.  Most of the time the only thing that holds us together is the spouse and family but eventually like I said it all gets twisted up and we see it as the others fault and if we can just escape it will get better.
I supppose you can look at it like one of those jigsaw puzzles, you know the ones, they have no picture to look at, have extra pieces thrown in, printed on both sides and no edges.  So tell me where do you start?
But lets make it MORE interesting for everyone involved lets throw in extra pieces that will fit and make the picture slightly different but still ok and MORE pieces that don't belong at all but seem as if they could fit.  But you really don't know because you have no picture to go by just trying to get things to fit together.  And you know what sometimes you get half way through and realise a piece is wrong which means the rest of it just won't go together and you have to pull it apart and stat from that wrong point, not the beginning mind just that point.

I really am trying to explain this in a way that may help.

Sometimes people start the puzzle and get stuck and leave it never to go back to.  Sometimes it takes along while for it all to be pieced together especially if one of the pieces you thought was ok turns out to be so totally wrong.  And sometimes it flows more easily as they are better at puzzles

Does this make sense?
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Offline good4me

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2011, 03:42:05 AM »
Sl

Before my H said he wanted a separation and decided to move out I accused him of cheating. He had become distant and not affectionate-our lm went to maybe once a week and it seemed like it was always me initiating. H swore he was only drinking. He said that me accusing him and snooping was pushing him to leave. I have thought about the things that had happened before he left and wonder if maybe I escalated the problems and put it in the MLC fast track by my actions. Checking phone call list,snooping in his wallet and car...talking to his assistant-she was blowing up his phone. He told me my jealousy was causing us problems and he didn't trust me.  Remembering conversation we had about us and our marriage. Told him that I loved him and we could work through any problems he/we were facing. He said he didn't love himself -he was fat old and hated his life -wished he was dead. Hated his job and he missed his family.Marriage was hard and he missed his friends. I countered with he could change jobs and we could move anywhere he wanted to start a new career. He always could see his friends but he worked alot and I wanted him to spend some time with me too. Then H ends up with new friends and not home much. Here starts the drinking and coming home late. He kept asking what happens if I dont come home-what happens if I come home drunk?? I told him we would deal with that if it happened.
Looking to see if there was any way I could have handled this differently. What can I learn from this? How will I work with these situations when H wants to come home ? Will I be strong enough mentally and emotionally to face his issues as we grow and learn together ?
I made a choice to finally let go, because I can't stand the pain, it's time for my last tear to fall and smile again.

Offline hampc0cv

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2011, 12:10:29 PM »
good4you,

Your h sounds like mine did before left.  He started drinking more and staying out later and later.  I asked him if there was someone else and he said no then he made the remark right before he left that he didn't even want to come home anymore.  The next day he left.  no warning or nothing.  Just left and took some clothes.  already had a friend to stay with and then I caught ow at friends house with my H.  It was down hill after that.  He even cried like a baby when I caught him.  Also when he left.  I don't know if it is MLC or not but I know it is not normal for him to act this way.  I also wonder if I had handled things different if it would have made a difference but I don't know.  All I know is he will not contact me and I haven't seen him since December.  We are now divorced and it kills me everyday to be reminded of it.  I love him and want him to come back.  All I can say is hang in there and keep praying and maybe out H will eventually see the light and want to codme hom.  Hugs
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Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2011, 02:42:16 PM »
Sl

Before my H said he wanted a separation and decided to move out I accused him of cheating. He had become distant and not affectionate-our lm went to maybe once a week and it seemed like it was always me initiating. H swore he was only drinking. He said that me accusing him and snooping was pushing him to leave. I have thought about the things that had happened before he left and wonder if maybe I escalated the problems and put it in the MLC fast track by my actions. Checking phone call list,snooping in his wallet and car...talking to his assistant-she was blowing up his phone. He told me my jealousy was causing us problems and he didn't trust me.  Remembering conversation we had about us and our marriage. Told him that I loved him and we could work through any problems he/we were facing. He said he didn't love himself -he was fat old and hated his life -wished he was dead. Hated his job and he missed his family.Marriage was hard and he missed his friends. I countered with he could change jobs and we could move anywhere he wanted to start a new career. He always could see his friends but he worked alot and I wanted him to spend some time with me too. Then H ends up with new friends and not home much. Here starts the drinking and coming home late. He kept asking what happens if I dont come home-what happens if I come home drunk?? I told him we would deal with that if it happened.
Looking to see if there was any way I could have handled this differently. What can I learn from this? How will I work with these situations when H wants to come home ? Will I be strong enough mentally and emotionally to face his issues as we grow and learn together ?
G4Y
Sorry it took me so long.  I've been busy with work and family and checked in only on my phone really so sometimes I don't see posts.
He's pushing you to see how you would react.

Kinda like my D13.  "what would you do mum if I...."

You handled it well. In your H's case maybe you could state if it comesup again.

"H this is your choice, I can't control what you do."

I can't remember if you have children or not if you do.  I would add (and this is just me as I don't drink at all) "If you do want to get drunk maybe we could arrange for you to stay the night at xxxxx so the children aren't affected."

If he does come home drunk and you don't like it.  Pop him on the couch or spare bed.  this is something I haven't had to deal with.  Dearheart brought the girls home once because ow was drunk around them..  She has been tipsy but this was drunk and he didn't like his daughters exposed to it (he's a non drinker as well).

At this point nonchalance is your best friend.   
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Offline StillStanding

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2011, 02:43:55 PM »
I've been rereading some of the older and stickied threads, and I was wondering if there was a thread anywhere that discussed people coming out of the fog? What it feels like, how they look back on time spent in the fog?

If there's an existing thread, maybe it should be stickied or combined with the About MLC resources thread?

EDIT: I was looking right at the MLC return stories thread and it didn't register.

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=237.0
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 06:42:46 AM by StillStanding »
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Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2011, 02:26:02 AM »
Copied from LG's thread
Ok they are not babies, lost children or teenagers and yes they are in crisis.

BUT they are misunderstood and they are lost and they are not functioning.
And this I stand by.

As a person who suffers depression I will stand by this.  I am trying to figure out how to put into words.
So I will ask a question.

How many here fantasise (when in a normal not grieving state of mind) of hurting themselves?  I don't mean in a suicidal way but just hurting themselves?

Ok, Now for me I have to be aware of my behaviours, I mean REALLY aware of them.   I am a biter or cutter.  Which means under stress (and for me it tends to be just as I am starting to slide into deep depression) I will BITE myself or take a knife and cut.  There is a scientific explanation apparently to do with pain releasing endorphins relieving the stress.  BUT really WHO in their RIGHT mind does it?  No one, you see it as wrong and silly and all the normal reactions.
But I would drive down the road last year and imagine digging the knife into my skin and twisting.  I would fantasise about biting CHUNKS out of my arms.  Now because I am AWARE of my problem I recognise it as a problem, as an indicator BUT up until the age of about 28 I didn't.
I didn't see it as a problem or an indicator.   And the thing is I still don't always recognise it straight away.  I don't, it takes a while for me to realise what i'm thinking about and why.

Now I am the one to control it BUT sure as hell if I didn't have the LOVE and SUPPORT of people around me I wouldn't have made it as far as I have.
I can't love Dearheart out of it, but I can love him through it.  I can support him even if I don't like what is happening.  There is something going on inside destroying the people we love and care for. We need to love ourselves, to heal and to move forward with our lives. To be strong for us, but in being strong for us and showing grace under pressure we give our MLCers something to look to, to aim for.  If people just kicked me to the kerb well...

Depression or this crisis can't be loved away, they will do what they will do.  I don't believe in leaving anyone though, whether MLCer or normal depression.  Their behaviour as insidious as it may be, may not be able to helped.  They don't recognise it as bad.  Just like I didn't recognise biting as bad.  And I had seen programs about it too, but, I saw it as it didn't relate to me.  I don't approve of what dearheart does and he knows that.  he certainly didn't approve of my cutting.  But knowing his love was there gave me the strength to move through the worst of it.
the thing is I had to do it myself just like your MLCer has to do it for themselves.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is a person in crisis is still lost and they will do things that defy logic (which is why normal loving mothers kill their babies with PPD).  They are lost and they are NOT stable, they are NOT logical.  You need to look after you but they are SICK just not in a "traditional" manner.  In this way they are worse then a teenager or child as they know they are an adult.

treat them with grace and respect and they may learn how to treat you right at least.  There is nothing lost by treating a person on crisis or depression "nicely" because it may be the thing that helps them learn something, and this is from experience.
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Offline xyzcf

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog stoy
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 12:03:46 PM »
Thank you Shantilly.... I believe what you say....truly...what is happening to the MLCer is real....all I can do is love him unconditionally..he will know that I am sure...and build my life....we are legally separated now....technically married but he doesn't see me as his wife.

As close as I have come to depression I still realize that mine is "normal" as I am responding to situational grief...my feelings and emotions are normal for such an event......his, who knows? For he doesn't let me in at all to his world...all I can do is observe the changes in his behavior and pray for his healing.
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Offline HeartsBlessing

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog story
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2012, 06:03:32 PM »
MLC FOG=DEEP MENTAL CONFUSION WITH NO CLEAR DIRECTION IN SIGHT.   

Not to mention things are "covered over" with a "veil" that can be PERCEIVED as thick or thin, it all depends on the person going through.

The fog overlays one's perception, and "skews" it, much like what happens when one is driving or walking through a fog that's not easily seen through.

Sounds are perceived as being 'closer' or "father away" again, depending upon the PERCEPTION of the one going through.

PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING DURING A MLC.  It may not be YOUR perception, but this very aspect plays a huge part in the midlifer's journey through the tunnel...there are times of fog/confusion, times of clarity, times of living in the past, the future, and the present.

Even if you knew exactly what they were going through, and what their daily pain and the way they were dealing with it were like, would it help you personally?   I can tell you from experience, AND from the vantage point of having been a Transitioner at one point on my OWN journey, the answer is NO, the requirements of the journey would be the same, and the aspects surrounding the journey would NOT change.

This is an aspect of the crisis that I never asked questions about when it was me; I know what 'mental fog' is,  from a common sense point of view, and the deep confusion it can cause; but knowing what this was and is didn't change ONE thing for me or anyone else going through.

Unless one has figured out a way to stop the mental confusion before it begins within themselves, EVERYONE has had bouts of confusion from time to time within their own minds; and if you remember that aspect, you KNOW what the "MLC FOG" is all about; only to a much greater scale of your own confusion.

The LBS gets a real healthy "taste" of it when their world is rocked from one end to the other; and their lives shatter in pieces so small these will never be recovered.

It gets worse, as the actions of the MLC'er gets worse, as the shock deepens the confusion within the LBS; and their own actions become more confused....trying to play fair, when there is NO real way to do this without being torn apart emotionally...and the worse the MLC'er's actions get, the WORSE the "mental fog and confusion" gets within the LBS.

Now, tell me once again how you don't understand what the MLC'er is experiencing when you watch seriously confused actions that are often matched by the deepening confusion of the LBS???

I KNOW, I was THERE, TOO.

The more questions you've all had answered, the more you seem to have; and you don't need to know every little thing there is to know, and honestly, you will NEVER have everything you THINK you need in the way of answers.

The only answers you really "need" are the ones you already have within yourselves..and you will find these as you walk forward as individuals, not as a collective group.   All in all, to reach the end, you'll each find your own perspective, your own way to wholeness and healing.

The tools have been written out; explained, and offered...what you do with them is up to you. :)

These were the aspects/Hallmarks that pointed the way toward what was happening to the MLC'ers, the life's lessons that are to be learned by BOTH people going through a journey that occurs at different times for the MLC'er, and the LBS, not to mention, the vast amount of spiritual lessons, and aspects that can also be learned from this.

My suggestion is always thus:

Get the understanding of what's going on, then get on your journey; a term that most of you seem to HATE, or have to come to HATE hearing.  :)

In my EXPERIENCED opinion, from the place I stand in now, that all of you have yet to reach,  it's a VERY FITTING TERM to what this part of your lives ARE, and have BECOME for the moment....ALL of life is a "journey" of one sort or another.

The MLC/MLT, well, it's just ANOTHER phase in this MAIN journey from BIRTH to DEATH.

During our lives, we do go through many births, and many deaths; with the main physical birth at the beginning of our lives, and the main physical death at the end of our lives.

In between, you NEVER stop learning, and you never stop walking a JOURNEY; it's ongoing, always having something to catch your attention so you can learn what's needed to get on to the next phase...and the only time you stop walking and learning is when you're DEAD. :)

Much to love to all,
HB
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline RivenIN2

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog story
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2012, 10:43:31 PM »
I love this thread! It reminds me to stop worrying and start moving on the path of my own journey and yes I to hated that word. It in many ways means I must confront fears that I would rather just leave alone, but I know I must face and defeat in order to move forward. I too remember the FOG of MLC, and now I wear the shoes of the LBS. In some ways it makes me ask less questions but your right in saying that it really does not matter for the LBS, just remember to learn, detach, and grow on the journey and things will get better.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - my fog story
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2012, 11:33:12 PM »
When we fight it, it makes it worse.
For us, worse for us
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2012, 03:29:13 PM »
You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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You must do the things you think you cannot do.

Offline Shantilly LaceTopic starter

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You must do the things you think you cannot do.


Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #60 on: July 04, 2012, 12:25:08 PM »
The link in this quote reference will take you to a great article, I Love You, But I’m Not In Love With You at Project Happily Ever After, Alisa Bowman's blog. Alisa has said that this post receives more comments each week than any other--and it is from 2009. I recently selected to have the system notify of new comments and thought this one was interesting. I responded to it. As of today (4 July 2012) this comment can be found near the bottom of the first page of this post, but as more people continue to comment, it will eventually be buried and to read it you may need to scroll through pages of comments by date.

Over 3 years ago I walked out of my marriage of over 20 years but have not divorced. My husband did not want me to leave and was deeply hurt at the time. Me pushing for a financial settlement then is a huge deal to him. Although I ended the relationship I have never entertained another relationship and began to wonder if I ever would. A couple of months ago I found out he was in a relationship. It was then I understood that I had in fact shut down and that the reason I had not bothered to look for anyone else was that I still loved my husband. I was not prepared for the pain and anguish knowing that I really did still love him and he had now moved on with someone else. I told him several times of my true feelings and asked to give things another chance. He said he has moved on and if I had come some months ago it would have been different. I think he’s only moved on since she’s come into his life. He must be more keen on her than she is of him. They don’t always seem to see one another on weekends and meet with the frequency that you would expect within the first year of a relationship. Being the love of his life all those years it came as a shock that he could shift his feelings to someone else he has only known a matter of months. I wonder if he truly loved me really or we would be together now. I guess I have this belief if you have a deep love for someone it remains inside and you have the desire to at least try. Although when we first separated things were acrimonious and I shut him out later that changed and things became amicable. We continue to be friends but find it difficult being around him as I still have feelings. Its very difficult when you feel like a wife but are treated like a friend. He has told me he has moved on and still loves me but its different now. He says he has forgiven me for the past but hasn’t forgotten which is all a bit cliched for me. I could also keep bringing up stuff but see this as pointless because as I see it Love is all there is and you cant love and resent. Resentment just chokes the love so you dont see it anymore. Last night I went over and told him I still loved him and I was finishing things I cried as spoke. It was so difficult for me. He said I was brave and reaffirmed he had moved on. He gave me a hug and kissed me and it felt so natural but so unatural to have to leave knowing I was no longer his wife to him.

Offline Bewildered

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2012, 02:49:12 PM »
An author who is quite well knows MLC story?
http://mensightmagazine.com/columns/manhood/chapter14.2.htm

Bx
No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which one is true.”
Strength is when you have so much to cry for but you prefer to smile instead. - Andy Murray

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. -Marilyn Monroe

"The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power." - Mary Pickford

Offline FindingJules

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2012, 12:43:08 PM »
I just tripped across this thread....it was SO helpful to read.  I see my H having SOME thoughts of MAYBE entertaining the idea that I'm not as awful as he might have thought....though I also see that he is VERY far away from admitting what he has done is wrong and that he will want to come back.  So....I needed some encouragment.  This is the place for it.  I have always thought that we had a SOLID marriage for 16 years (which of course is why the BD was SO shocking)...but I also thought that solid foundation would be what would eventually get us back together.  Reading within these posts that 2 years is just really about the "norm"....I have some time to go.  And...with the help of a friend, I am REALLY working on detaching so that i don't insert myself and screw up H's progress toward the MLC finish line.  I'm setting goals for myself each day and reporting to her (my friend) my progress, or she's checking in with me about that progress.  The goals are related to Body, Mind and Spirit.  It's a great way to pick up a new hobby...that hobby being myself!

Thanks for compiling and sharing all of this great support....I think at the end of this, i can tell people I've run a marathon....or maybe that new 100 mile run I have been reading about...It certainly will feel like it!
H - 40
M - 41
Married - 17 yrs
Together - 20 years
Divorced - May 2013
S - 14
D - 13
S - 9
BD - 3/11/12
Filed 7/18/12

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2013, 01:35:54 PM »
I have just read this thread from start to end , it has been so helpful to read someones story who has seen it from the other side . Thank you so much .  :)

Offline UKStander

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Hope Floats and I begin to understand....
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2013, 01:03:07 AM »
Thankyou it did  sometimes the outside opinion is exactly what is needed.
Your mum HB was amazingly brave to commit herself.  It's the bleakness inside.  No words can describe it truly.  THe things you loved so dearly mean nothing less then nothing even as you wish it were different.
That's the twist, you want it different but you can't.  Not that you won't, you can't.  And so you start trying to do things that will make you feel even fear is better then nothing.  Even anger.
I for a short while stole things from shops.  Stupid little things because I would FEEL something fear and then TRIUMPH becasue I put i over someone.
It didn't last long thank god.  But when I hear about celebrities who got caught stealing I go AHA.  They lost the buzz from the small stuff and just kept needing to get a feeling.  Has nothing to do with the items, generally you don't care about them its the "feeling", you are alive.
You guys have all seen it.  All of you.  The empty hollow look, as if they'v checked out but worse.
Or the flat look as the monster comes out to play.
You know why its flat?  because part of them is in conflict, the monster feels alive when he sees pain its a triumph (feeling... see I can do something...) but the person you care for is in there trying to stop, you may not believe it but we are.  And the monster doesn't want to stop becasue it feels.  Someone else is hurting not just them. And so the eyes are flat becasue the monster doesn't want oyu to see, but you do anyway, when it slips and the torment you see i ntheir eyes is there.  we have seen that too unless you have a vanisher.
I was a vanisher, I ran from H.  To PROTECT him.
I would imagine me killing him in all sorts of ways and the idea of that feeling of power... 
Often a vanisher vanishes because they see you at risk from them.
They see that you are strong and will live without them.
The vanisher goes through the same things as a boomerang you don't see it though.
This, and many other things in HopeFloats story have helped me this morning - thank you. I've read several books now on depression and got an inkling of what goes on inside the person's head but we can't ever truly understand it fully I think until we've been there. I did get there a little bit during part of H's MLC. I began to rant and rage at a friend - truly. I couldn't believe I did it, and was so embarrassed after. It was so trivial, too. I had hoped to speak to her and I got a text saying she was at a friend's house... I saw red. Because I needed to talk to her so badly. The monster that spit back in fury was not me. But I got an insight that day into what depression (I suppose I had it a bit) could do to a person. You feel awful. And the anger is desperate, and you loathe yourself after for being so needy.

But HopeFloats, you are making me realise that whenever I get down because I think of my H having a ball (freedom, bachelor pad, new girlfriend, no burdens of house upkeep etc etc) he really isn't. And when I think he doesn't miss me AT ALL, well, I just don't know, do I...  I don't think love of 20 years can be turned off like a faucet, can it?

I am reading your story with interest. Thanks so much for the brave sharing. An MLC on top of an MLC...  That's brutal. 

UK S
BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 11/12, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. Now living with OW since Sept 14. In Feb 16 he said he 'just needed the money'. I think I have to frame this within a divorce, for protection and to know I can keep my home. So I've initiated. It's slow moving.

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 07:34:40 AM »
I had a very strange evening yesterday , I had been reading this thread about Fog stories . My door bell went and on the other side of the door was my father who I have been estranged from for some time . To cut a long story short he has always suffered from depression and over the years had pushed away the people who tried to help him by various mean someone of them worse than other. I made the choice to distance myself some time ago for my own well being .

He said he had heard about H leaving and wanted to see if I was okay . For some reason I found myself telling him the whole story and because of his history he understood completely what H must be going through .

He explained how angry he used to feel to see other people happy and how it used to make him resent them , that he would push them away because he really needed to talk to someone on his level.

He explained how paranoid he became that nobody cared no matter how much they showed they did, he just thought they were lying "why would they care for him"

He described the feeling of watching himself and thinking "that person can not be me because I am smiling "and that he did not know how to be happy or how it felt to be happy because he was dead inside. I mentioned Hs dead eyes and he said that is because he feels dead inside .

He totally understood the running away because he said H associated all of this anger and resentment with me , our home and our life when all that would happen is that the unhappiness will return and just keep getting worse until eventually something has to give .

It was very strange My F has not been that clear and calm in years , not the eveing that I had planned but an interesting one .




Offline Filled with faith and hope

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2013, 07:46:33 AM »
Interesting CallanG. I heard the same from my own father too. He left me , my sister and my mom many many years ago. I can say he suffered from MLC. My father said, it is very hard for him to watch that this is happening to me . Though my own father experienced the same, I tried not to tell him all the stuffs. Everything is extremely painful . Actually my father cried more than my mom. I hate to say this but hey dad, see how karma works? Joke.
Let your hopes not your hurts shape your future.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2013, 08:04:12 AM »
Whether Karma or the old saying, "God works in mysterious ways," I think the experiences you've both had are fascinating, and I'm glad for you both that it has triggered your fathers to open up and reach out to you.  I have found this time has healed so many other relationships, that it gives me hope that reconciliation of so many things and relationships is possible.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Faithfully Yours

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2013, 08:35:01 AM »
I had a very strange evening yesterday , I had been reading this thread about Fog stories . My door bell went and on the other side of the door was my father who I have been estranged from for some time . To cut a long story short he has always suffered from depression and over the years had pushed away the people who tried to help him by various mean someone of them worse than other. I made the choice to distance myself some time ago for my own well being .

He said he had heard about H leaving and wanted to see if I was okay . For some reason I found myself telling him the whole story and because of his history he understood completely what H must be going through .

He explained how angry he used to feel to see other people happy and how it used to make him resent them , that he would push them away because he really needed to talk to someone on his level.

He explained how paranoid he became that nobody cared no matter how much they showed they did, he just thought they were lying "why would they care for him"

He described the feeling of watching himself and thinking "that person can not be me because I am smiling "and that he did not know how to be happy or how it felt to be happy because he was dead inside. I mentioned Hs dead eyes and he said that is because he feels dead inside .

He totally understood the running away because he said H associated all of this anger and resentment with me , our home and our life when all that would happen is that the unhappiness will return and just keep getting worse until eventually something has to give .

It was very strange My F has not been that clear and calm in years , not the eveing that I had planned but an interesting one .

Callen,

Thank you so much for sharing this. I firmly believe that God puts things before us when we need them the most and yesterday was a really bad day for me. I saw a picture of H with the OW and he looked happy. He didn't have the cold dead eyes and he had a glow to him of sorts. Anyway, it made me sick inside and I thought about it and obsessed even the majority of the day yesterday. Last night I had to see him about kid stuff and in person his eyes are just as dead as ever. I can see right through him and I think he knows it. Your Father's insight has made me feel so much better. I now know it is not in my head and pictures can be very deceiving.

Thanks again. Hugs to you.
Faithfully Yours :)

"Sometimes we must give up the life we planned for the life that is waiting for us". ~Joseph Campbell~

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2013, 08:55:22 AM »
Glad that is has been helpful, he also said what is said on here so many times that you cant tell someone they are depressed they have to find out for themselves .

It helped me a lot because it confirmed a lot of what I think that H is going through and that he is not ready to admit that he is depressed yet.

Offline Lost

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2013, 10:15:44 AM »
CallanG,

Thank you very much for sharing this, this is so helpful to understand depression, and why they need to push away the LBS!

Lost
 

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2013, 11:02:49 AM »
CallanG,

What a great insight you have been given!
I hope that this helps heal your relationship with your father too.
It is encouraging for me to see this and gives me hope that one day my h. will recognize his own depression.
Thanks for posting
M 56
H 56
S 25
S 24
D 22
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2013, 12:55:34 AM »
My Father called me again last night, this is the most we have spoken in a normal way in many years. It feels like his depression has lifted and he is seeing clearly for the first time in a long time .

I explained that H had re written a lot of our marriage stating that it had not been happy for a long time and that he can not remember what it felt like to be happy . H also mentioned the thing about remembering something that we laughed at or a time that we were happy but seeing it in the third person if that makes sense .

My Father knew just what he meant , he said that you remember something and you can see yourself laughing but you can not equate that feeling to yourself because in a way the depression blocks all of that which lead us back to the fog .

He also mentioned the fact that your personality can split and you become someone that know one knows and the worst side of you comes out and hurts the people who are trying to help , but deep down the old you is desperate to stop it but can not do anything .

It is nice to sepak to someone who does not look at me as if I am mad when I tell them that H is not himself at the moment .

Offline LoveMeMyself

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2013, 07:08:42 AM »
CallanG,

    I have been reading right along with the others.  I just wanted to say "thanks" for sharing this information....it truly helps us to know as much as we can about this stuff.  It is especially nice to read/hear from someone who is willing to share what they experienced......as you said, "It is nice to speak to someone who does not look at me as if I am mad".........something we have all experienced.
 
     My exH has stated many times throughout his MLC that he is suffering from depression.....he has been under a doctor's care throughout this entire situation.  He knows he's depressed.......but he uses this as an excuse for the things he has done.....and speaks of it as something he will always have to deal with.  He claims he inherited it.  The thing is.......I've never witnessed this depression in the 6 years we were together.........as he claims he has always suffered with depression.  So, I can't help but wonder if this will always be his excuse/reason......and will never realize the true issue/problem lies within himself. 

    Thanks again for sharing such insight.

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2013, 07:26:49 AM »
LMM

I think with my Father when he was depressed he would blame everything on everyone else which is what MLC's tend to do, he would also rake up things from the past . It is only now that he seems to be out of a spell of depression that my Father is able to talk about it kind of admit that it was something in him that made him feel paranoid and blame everyone else , but he does say that the depression changes your personality so maybe things that they do in this state are due to the depression.

I would certainly say that my H behaviour at the moment is due to the depression and confusion within him , it does make it any easier to deal with but it goes a way to explaining some of it . 

Offline rosemary129

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2013, 03:46:04 AM »
Dear CallanG ,

It's so nice you post your father's story . It gives me hope . I read a lot "fog"story from MLCer . Every time I read , I become more compassionate about them . But when I face that Monster directly , I can not detach with my rational mind . I react with my feelings . I feel like I have two persons inside me . One is very sad & angry but the rational one try to override the emotional one . There are struggling constantly .
So , did you father tell you how he can come out of the fog ? Was there a so call " Awakening " ?
ROSEMARY

Offline calamity

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2013, 06:15:21 AM »
Quote
One is very sad & angry but the rational one try to override the emotional one . There are struggling constantly .

And this, Rosemary, makes you perfectly NORMAL.  :)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2013, 07:17:51 AM »
CallanG,  I might of missed reading it but did you say or do you know, Did your father take AD's or did he just work out of the depression?   Just curious?
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2013, 01:33:59 AM »
Rosemary, my Father depression has been going since around the time I was born , he has had several spells of normality in which he is a totally different person so I would say he has had many awakenings but alas he has always drifted back into a depression for one reason or another .

His depression stems form his M dying when he was 15 and his F remarrying pretty much straight away he was never able to accept the OW and for a long time he did not realise he was suffering from depression he said he just felt angry and ill and projected a lot of that onto my Mother. The divorced when I was 11 and he said he regrets that to this day some 30 odd years later .

He did say that to start with he felt physically ill all the time , tired , restless, angry , sad and then he sprialled out of control as the fog came over him, he has done some awful things during his life but I think I understand a bit more now that he was not always in control of what he was doing and that he was desperately clinging on to stop these things happening .

31 he has been on mediacation for many years and if he comes off them he becomes a monster pretyy quickly so he is resigned to taking them for the reast of his life .

One thing he said last night is that he could never have spoken to anyone close to him as he became paronoid that they were the enemy and that he resented the fact that they seemed stong and happy , so he could understand why H spoke to someone else and also someone else who is pretty mixed up herself, it goes with what is said on here and what my councellor has mentioned that at the moment H feels safe with someone who is also not very stable .

Ironically he also said that the grass is not always greener but when you are in a deep depression you are convinced that the fantasy will be .

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2013, 02:21:22 AM »
Hi Callan,

I think your posts have been wonderful. So helpful and informative with details of your fathers' depression.

I feel sure this will help a lot of standers on this forum to understand and also ease their own pain a little, because if you understand a problem it is easier to cope with.

Look forward to meeting you this weekend. Hope this sunshine lasts!

Take care.

X

Offline Lost

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2013, 03:55:32 AM »
Dear Callan,

Thank you very much for posting this insight into depression. It is so horrible to notice all these generations 'passing' on divorce and depression like disease, it is shown in so many studies, and so also the lower percentage of mariages working our for children of divorce'.

And your father's depression 'only' from his father remarrying very quickly after his mothers death, but it is just kind of the same thing for children, this is so sad that the MLClers really don't get the deep trauma this causes the children, mostly because when they see them the kids play 'happy children' so they are more loved. Shutting in fact their emotions inside, and as we know that certainly is no good thing for relationships....

Hope this insight gives you and us all more strenght to hold the stand and break the pattern!
Thanks again
Lost

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2013, 07:23:02 AM »
CallanG, thank you for sharing your father's insight.  It really helps me to understand better.  My H has childhood "issue" that has caused an underlying depression his whole life I think, at least since the age of 10.  He is seeing that "a tiny bit", gone to the Dr. was given Ad but will not take them, going to handle all of this himself :(  It makes so much sense when you said he can't handle being close to me and family because we are sure and strong and happy.  My H told me just this week that " Everything is crystal clear for you"  not I get what he was saying, thank you. His OW have always been women with things going on, divorce family trouble.  I'm too sure of myself and too much under control for him right now.  But without the AD's I wonder if it will ever change for him?
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #82 on: May 07, 2013, 03:33:31 AM »
Hey 31 , my councellor also made a very interesting point last week . My H never got on with my Father he thought he was weak and blamed all his problems on everyone else and never took anyones elses feelings into account . He also resented that for many years my Father always turned to me and caused me all sorts of problems . My councellor feels that another reason H would not talk to me when his despression started is that esentially he has become me Father the one thing he would have hated to admit .

Gave me some food for thought .

 :)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #83 on: May 07, 2013, 07:43:28 AM »
CallanG, That is very interesting. I do see some of the same with my H, things he complains the loudest about in others is exactly what and where he is right now and has been for several years. Things about his father specifically.
Hmmmm
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2013, 06:28:45 AM »

Hi All , I had another Loooong chat with my Father last night and thought I would share some of it . I hope it makes some sense we covered a lot of ground.

We started talking about H avoidance of coming to the house or being able to deal with me . My coucellor has the theory that H can not handle the emotions he feels and know he cannot hide anything from me and therefore can not hide that he still has feelings for me .

My father agreed with that but also added that he can understand why H does not want to come to the house , he said that when you are in a low state of depression that although you are striving for false happiness, ie OW , drink, spending to shut out the pain and feeling of being lonely  you also find it incredibly hard to do things or be around things that remind you of a time that you were truly happy , they make you angry you resent them because they stir up real feelings when you would rather block them all out . In essence they know that the escape tactics , OW , Drink ect wont make them really feel anything .

His example was myself and my brother, we remind him of the only time in life that he was truly happy before he messed it all up and that was with my mother . In a way he resents us because he associates that with true happiness which he is desperatley trying to block out because it makes him feel things . Does that make sense, if it helps he has not spoken to my Brother in years and tried his best to allianate me .

He explained it in a more simple term , he used to love playing golf with his 2nd Wife , this was a match made in hell and doomed to fail. But for a short time they were happy and played golf all the time . When it started going wrong and Depression took hold he could not play golf , it stirred to many real feelings which caused anger and resentment , so he drank instead . Has not played golf in years .

He said the saddest thing is that you run away from the thing that had always made you happy but because you are depressed it makes you angry and sad, you waste time searching for false happiness only to realise often to late that it was there all along and that the feelings that made you angry and sad were inside you .

We also talked about the periods of over activity or long periods of sleep. I remember when I was young my Father seemed to always be asleep or tired and that has continued through his life. He said he often uses sleep as an escape , while he is asleep he does not have to think or feel. If sleep is not possible ie you are having to try and cover the depression then its the opposite its rushing around like a mad thing again anything to stop you feeling .

I do know this feeling when I became depressed after BD, I was either rushing around doing odd jobs or falling asleep during the day and yet sometimes if I needed to focus on something I could not do it , because if I allowed my mind to focus enough to do that the pain was there and I did not want that so I spend a lot of time in a fog to escape the pain . I could only watch things that did not require me to concentrate if that makes sense and sometimes I would realise at the end of a programm that I had no idea what had happened.

When I remember more I will post it .

Callan





 

 

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2013, 07:28:25 AM »
CallanG, thank you for posting.  I have always felt as though my H "keeps himself" so busy, almost to the point of exhaustion just so he doesn't have to think about things or to avoid.  I guess that is his way of dealing with the depression.  We had a short time of tired/sleeping, but usually it is constant "doing".  Makes me crazy as I know he won't settle anything within himself until he slows down or stops!
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2013, 07:59:40 AM »

31 , Mine has done both aswell, when I look back to last year at the weekends he was either up really early and out doing stuff or he stayed in Bed for ages and then got nothing done all day . At the moment I think he is going through a manic stage , he also appeared over happy when he visited the house recently. It mush be exhusting trying to block out your thoughts and feelings all of the time .

I am lucky in a way , I can go home and cry or sleep or show my emotions in any way I want . He is with OW and must have to try and put on a front for her and his work collegues I am sure at some point exhaustion must hit them and the mask will slip .
 

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2013, 12:37:21 PM »
CallanG, thank you, it is so good to get that insight.  And great that your father can articulate it so well now. 

This may well explain why my H is avoiding our house like the plague now, and even not contacting kids.  And then the flip side -- going to gigs, sports matches, other high-adrenaline activities.  And of course trying to twist it and blame us for not calling or whatever. 

Offline Chrysalis

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2013, 03:05:51 PM »
Hi CallanG

Thanks so much for posting.  It is really interesting to hear what your father says.  I do keep wondering just why my ex doesn't want to have much contact with his D, who was definitely the apple of his eye and who he fought so hard to keep in his life after his divorce from her mother.  Trying to shut out the memory of the happiness he felt at spending time with her may well explain it.

C
xx


Offline Anjae

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2013, 05:51:31 PM »
Thank you CallanG. What your father says echoes what my cousin who had MLC said and somethings Mr J has spoken of here and there.

Mr J is the champion of busy/run. He himself says that he cannot stop because if he does he will think of what he has done/is doing and he will not be capable of keep going and is not capable of facing what has happened.



 
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline rosemary129

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2013, 02:38:02 AM »
Dear CallanG,

Thanks for sharing ! I have a question . If your father already knew that the happiness was always there in the past & within the families , why they still ran away ? Why not consider going back ? Is it very hard to find his way back ?
ROSEMARY

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2013, 02:53:57 AM »
Dear CallanG,

Thanks for sharing ! I have a question . If your father already knew that the happiness was always there in the past & within the families , why they still ran away ? Why not consider going back ? Is it very hard to find his way back ?

Hi Rosemary

My Fathers depression has been very very long term , most of my life I have experienced him blaming all of his problems on other people, be it my M , his 2nd Wife, his work collegues literally anybody else but himself. I think that it taken him this long to realise that his problems are within himself . I think he has manic depression which never really goes away , whereas most MLC seem to suffer from clinical depression .

He has said that the desire to run is very strong , that you are really running away from the fear that the problem is inside and for him he has just kept running .

Hope this helps

Offline SpecialK

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #92 on: May 26, 2013, 06:02:04 AM »
Thank you for posting this insight CG, it' really shouted out at me and confirmed if you like what I already know/believe.  Apologises for repeating this but ...... ;)

In December 2011 my ex had made plans to move back into the house at the end of Jan 2013.  At that time he knew his work contract was coming to an end and needed to somewhere to live.   I asked if he wanted me to move out, but he stated he didn't.  I asked what about his Son as one reason he left was because of him and I reminded him of him telling me that his son and I couldn't be in the same room together.  He replied we would see how he went and if it didn't work out they go out when he had him.  How this would I have worked I've no idea as his Mum (Scary Bird) wouldn't have let him come to the house if I was there - I'm such an evil witch  :) and she would have have made life hell.

During the time we had been apart I saw so many changes in him; sometimes he'd be happy, others sad, withdrawn and exhausted.  When I saw him in Sept - Dec 11 it was a slow withdrawal, each time I saw him (his choice) he got worse.  In the December the week before he went to Australia for Christmas, he came over.  He wanted to see me and ask what I wanted for Christmas.  When he arrived he was awful; looked exhausted, withdrawn, snappy, a sense of anger around him and could hardly talk to me.  He did take me out for dinner and that's when he briefly talked about him moving back.  He also said I could be a little more enthusiastic about it.  When he went to go I gave him his Christmas present, he hugged me said thank you and said he hadn't got mine as he didn't feel 'Christmasee' and off he went.  Honestly the whole evening he was motionless; it was like getting blood out of a stone.

The following Tuesday I received a Christmas card from him which had 'To someone very Special' which had two penguins on it cuddling, inside was 200 euros for my holiday.  On the Friday he called me from the airport after he'd checked in - he sounded relaxed and a bit more of himself.

Then came along Miss Wales (who he tells me he meet on the plane) and everything changed........  I became someone who he hated/disliked and he wanted me out.  He issued the date to move out of the house via email.  I moved out in June 12 and now have my own little place.

I know he suffers from depression (or SAD) and as someone who has suffered from it I know how it makes you feel - numb like all your feelings have been cut.  My gut tells that he was in a unhappy place, and Miss Wales came around at the right time, who lifted him, make him feel happy again.

Who knows, I haven't seen him him for over a year now and nc since Sept. 12.   Tomorrow is his birthday and it will be the first time since I've known him that I won't be acknowledging it.  The more and more I let go, the better I feel in myself and I have or rather feel I have more insight/gut feel into the situation.

Does this make sense?  Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong place.

Thanks again CG for sharing



SKxxx
Special K xxx

Offline cherryblossom

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2013, 07:52:59 AM »
CallanG thank you so much for sharing your father's experience and thank you to your father for being able to share this with you, in the first place.

It really helps me understand my Dad, who avoids me.  I used to think that he didn't love me but I understand that if his experience is like your Father's that I am a stark reminder of the happiness he discarded - I look so much like my Mum too that I guess it is even more poignant for him.

It also explains why my H would spend so much time sleeping.  I saw it that he was just letting life drift past him, whereas he was trying to shut out the pain of depression.  My H has had some realisation about what your Father speaks about - the searching for false happiness.  My H says he thought that everything around him was wrong - his job, me, our R and then he realised that he was just unhappy with himself.  So sad  :(

Thanks again for sharing this :) x
“None of us can heal in isolation. Healing is best done in community” Anne Wilson Schaef

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves - Viktor Frankl

Offline UKStander

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2013, 03:15:42 AM »
Hi Callan, Special K and others

I have a father story, too...  Mine went downhill in mid-life (when married to my lovely M) and one day announced he was leaving. No preamble, no nothing. He took his LP records (it was that era!) and that was that. She almost never saw him again. He immediately demanded a divorce - she reluctantly granted it, but she didn't know what we now know.   So, he gave up the journalism career he loved and became a furniture salesman in Croydon.  The thing was OW (his second wife) was pregnant, so he really had no choice. (I was 5 years at the time.) Also, OW had money of her own and my dad was flat broke (they were living in rented accommodation - never saved up to buy as he always spent what he had on lavish gifts etc).

He went downhill thereafter - and it's a story I've only become aware of in recent years. He drank. Mornings, lunchtimes, all the time. To blot out the pain. He was relatively OK with 2nd wife, I think - she wasn't horrible - but at 80+ it was clear he couldn't really love any other person properly. As he got sicker, he tried to commit suicide. He was in a psychiatric ward in his 80s. But too late then for any cure. They diagnosed it as manic depression. I would never have guessed at the 'manic' side. 

It was all caused apparently by his father who used to run him down publicly and beat him. And his mother tended to side with his father . . .

Anyhow. How that helps us, I don't know, except it's another case study!  But, Callan, your father's desc of why he has to run, are very helpful.  So they kind of are aware of happier times...  Even as they do the pretend happiness. 

I understand it but I still have to get my head around it, if you know what I mean.  Daily.

UKS
BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 11/12, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. Now living with OW since Sept 14. In Feb 16 he said he 'just needed the money'. I think I have to frame this within a divorce, for protection and to know I can keep my home. So I've initiated. It's slow moving.

Offline SpecialK

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2013, 03:29:09 AM »
My ex has a very unhappy childhood: his Dad Nd stepdad were abusive alcoholics, his Mum ice queen who is devoid of emotion who should have never had children.  My ex 'falls in love' very quickly but I truly believe its a mask - it takes away his true feelings for a while.  He also drinks heavily, suffers with his bowels and stomach - has a hy thingy ulcer (sorry can't spell it) and at his own admission very insecure. 
Special K xxx

Offline Bewildered

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2013, 04:36:38 AM »
UKStander

You must have know he was in a crisis when he choose Croydon as a home?? place to work??!!!!  :o :o :o :o ;D

No seriously I don't think MLC depression is new its as you say not something people knew very much about - a very new area really of diagnosis - whilst people knew in mid life some people tried to hold on to their youth so the red sports car - bimbo and spending spree's etc  the real problem behind was not something that people understood - now of course they are sorting this die out but the how to fix ? is the issue as the Why seems to be wrapped up in some none developed emotional issues they could not deal with - pointing to I am reading  about how their brain processed emotional turmoil so could be neglect/hurt perceived or real/anger/confusion/etc. then their individual personality plays a part - but what the later information on emotion non development in children is saying  is that the younger the chid is when emotional growth is halted or repressed or neglected - for example - my sister has some strange ways of behaviour that are at all like mine - I found out at the age of 18 months to her being  - 2 1/2 my mother was ill with a severe virus or something they didn't know was in and out of hospital was weak and unable to car for us both. I was nearly 4 when she got ill and nearly 5 when she got better - my Grandmother took care o f us - my sister and I but I don't remember, nether does my sister but I feel this effected her because of her age and not me because I had age on my side/already developed understanding of my relationship with my Mother  and my sister didn't
therefore - some emotions have been suppressed in her and its showing now - if she is angry or upset with you - she says nothing she stops talking to you wont talk to you - and when you try to help/find out she pushes you away but I feel she expects you to keep trying - its so exhausting !!!!
Think she is having her own MLC no OW just a painful transition but has gone very quiet, spends a  lot to time on her own .... and can be quite nasty and angry - acting very superior and doesn't care who's feelings she hurts - latest example which i know you will appreciate.
She went to to her hairdressers - been going to the same man for 12 years and made an appointment with another stylist and sat opposite he previous hairdresser and said nothing - he then as she left said Have i upset you and she looked confused and said No - I just made an appointment and I can go to whoever I want? which he said of course just wanted to check if i had done anything wrong - she walked away .... so MLC????

Yes just accept the process and time will fix it is my motto !!

B x
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Strength is when you have so much to cry for but you prefer to smile instead. - Andy Murray

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. -Marilyn Monroe

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Offline Anjae

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2013, 08:10:33 PM »
Thank you for telling your father's story, UK Stander.

How that helps us, I don't know, except it's another case study

Case studies help us understand better what we are dealing with. They also tend to show us a repetition of patterns and outcomes.

One of the things the stories many here have told about people that have been on the other side say is that the MLCer is not happy. Many never recover their happiness and some end up trying to kill themselves or are diagnosed with mental illness.

For me MLC depression is more like Bipolar Disorder, formerly known as Manic Depression. MLC, at least for High Energy MLCers, has two poles: depressed and manic.

My ex 'falls in love' very quickly but I truly believe its a mask - it takes away his true feelings for a while. 

This makes sense.

No seriously I don't think MLC depression is new its as you say not something people knew very much about - a very new area really of diagnosis - whilst people knew in mid life some people tried to hold on to their youth so the red sports car - bimbo and spending spree's etc  the real problem behind was not something that people understood -

Agree, it is not new, it just wasn't understood.

now of course they are sorting this die out but the how to fix ? is the issue as the Why seems to be wrapped up in some none developed emotional issues they could not deal with - pointing to I am reading  about how their brain processed emotional turmoil so could be neglect/hurt perceived or real/anger/confusion/etc. then their individual personality plays a part - but what the later information on emotion non development in children is saying  is that the younger the child is when emotional growth is halted or repressed or neglected -

What you're saying correlates with what I've been learning in the Genetic course. They talked about how a stressfull environment could cause prenatal, childhood or adolescence change in genes, altering things inside the person.

In many cases the changes are not visible for many years and in some they never surface because, like in MLC, they require a trigger.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Niek

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2013, 10:46:48 PM »

 if she is angry or upset with you - she says nothing she stops talking to you wont talk to you - and when you try to help/find out she pushes you away but I feel she expects you to keep trying

Just like my H and his siblings.

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #99 on: June 04, 2013, 01:30:49 AM »

Hi All

I thought I posted this yesterday but I must be as mad as H.

My Dad gave me another snipit about depression and association . We were discussing why H cannot come to the house .

My Dad remembered a day when he was with he 2nd W . He woke up feeling out of sorts and a bit down , they took the dog for a walk to a local woods. They had an okay time nothing out of the ordinary happened but for a long time after that he could not face going to the same place without feeling a sense of panic.

He also said and I may have mentioned this before that when he was despressed the thought of being around places that he new had made him happy made him depressed. Now this may sound like it contradict the other example but that seems to be the nature of the beast that depsression is .

 

Offline SpecialK

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2013, 09:36:01 AM »
I appreciate this may not be the right section to post..... I finly feel I'm coming through my own fog.  I have suffered with depression on and off for years, and it's likely I will have AD's for rest of my life, but I can live with that.  Depression is an awful illness; for me it makes me feel numb, nothing excited me of makes me happy.  I have gone through stages of not wanting to be with anyone, sleek to anyone.  Just shut myself away.  Time as we know is a great healer.

I truely believe I have turned that corner; let go of the chains I put myself in and I feel free.  This time last year I was a mess; my ex had kicked me out, gave me my leaving date via email.  I lost my job in January and I almost lost my Mum

Now I have my own home, started a new job in March for a fab company and my Mum pulled through.  For all of that I am truly grateful.  Ex no longer fills my thoughts in the way he did -  yey !  And (hopefully) I have let go of tarot.

 Tarot was my escapism, my reassurance, I allowed it go rule my life.  It made me unhappy and disappointed in myself.  Nothing has really come true - last three occasions I was told he would be back (by three different readers) - if he is I can't see him!  I have been td he's unhappy (wl I didn't need to pay someone for that) and his relationship is domed - yeah right.  It's early days and I'm not out of the woods but I feel differently about it. 

Once the fog starts to clear, you start to see things as they really are.  I am learning to forgive myself re the past - it's gone and there's nothing I can do about it but I now the opportunity of a better future.  I'm really not sure how I feel a about ex anymore, I don't miss him.  Not so long ago I would have jumped at the chance to see him - not anymore :-)

xxx



I'm sat here in local pub enjoy the bit of sunshine. a glass of wine Sand reflecting - as you do.  When my ex and I first got together it was a month before Christmas.  My Christmas and New Year plans were already in place.  We spent Christmas Eve and Christmas morn3  Inga together - he showered me with loads of expensive gifts whereas I just got him token presents.  When it was time for me to go he seemed withdraws but insisted he was OK (I was spending Christmas Day with my ex husband, we were very good friends at that time).  I later discovered he ranted about the situation to his ex (the mother of his son). 

Shortly after he admitted to me that he always down the first few months of year.  He cried a few times but couldn't tell me what was wrong; it also effected him sexually.  I didn't give it much thought to be honest; at that home I didn't know how I felt about him. 

He was supportive when my Dad died; he came to my Dad's funeral which must have been hard for him given that he'd never met my family and my parents live in Spain.  After the funeral he took himself off on his own for a while and then the day after the funeral we all went out for something to eat - during that time he called his son, afterwards he was tears, again couldn't tell me what was wrong only that he needed to be alone.

I know he wants to be liked to the point he 'buys' people.  He is very insecure and cannot hold down a relationship longer than 4 years. 

Before he meet Miss Wales he was going to move back into the house; I told what I wanted with regards to my own home - he told me to give him 2 years (he would help me - he always said
he would always look after me).  Then he said that we would probably end up in the same nursing home together.   A few weeks later he meets Miss Wales, everything changes and I become the evil witch.

xx

« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 01:32:48 AM by OldPilot »
Special K xxx

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #101 on: July 09, 2013, 08:33:02 AM »

Hi , I hope it is okay to put this here. I have been reading a book called "Shoot the Damn Dog" a memoir of depression by Sally Brampton. I have not finished it yet but it is an amazingly honest account of her spells of depression and how it made her feel . A real eye opener as to how people in the fog feel and that they have very little control over it .

Callan

Offline Anjae

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #102 on: July 09, 2013, 04:19:22 PM »
It is ok to post it here. Could you be so kind to provide a little more info on what she says about the depression fog?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2013, 01:24:15 AM »
Hi Anne

Her depression started after she returned to full time work after 10 years , she said it crept up slowly when she realised that she was strugling to cope . It was then made worse by the death of a close friend .

She talks of the feeling of disconnection from everyone including her Daughter, the loss of enjoyment in anything . Her love was her garden and she started to feel that even that was her enemy and was mocking her when it became over grown .

One of the other things she talk about is her total loss of control over anything , and that sometimes she had to hurt people or push them away to feel that she had any control over anything .

She describes despression as like being under water all of the time ,nothing is clear anymore and you mind plays tricks on you .

One of the things that she did say is that it helps if people do talk to her when she is feeling like this and not just try and ignore the situation.

It does confirm my feeling that although we feel like our MLC's have all the control that they feel like they have none at all .


Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2013, 06:03:21 AM »
CallanG~ wow I see my H in that information :)
it is him to a T.  I do wonder if his depression has only been throughout this crisis or his whole life?  I tend to believe it has been ever since his childhood abuse, but maybe not.  How do you ever know?  thanks for sharing.
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Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #105 on: July 10, 2013, 06:47:42 AM »

No problem 31, the book is a real eye opener it has made me cry a few times because her desperation to get better is so sad .

Offline panda

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #106 on: July 10, 2013, 12:03:14 PM »
Not sure if this belongs here but I thought I would share with you what happened to someone I know (not sure why I didn't do it earlier).

They had known each other for years, really settled relationship until child arrives (who was planned) and H went a bit crazy when fatherhood arrived - couldn't cope.  Sent him acting all weird and W kept asking what was wrong, he pulled away, distant etc , as suspected, PA was found out - all signs were there - disappearing, secretive etc.  His background was an only child, pressure to be perfect - he also has a very challenging career dealing with some very difficult situations.

So, he moves out.  W goes dark and H about 9 months later is complaining that 'he is stuck in the wilderness unable to see where he is going', rocking, very scary.  W did not think he was capable of holding down his job based on what she witnessed.  Then, he wants back into the marriage after BUT did this with OW still waiting in wings - (so an early return?).  W asks him to go to counselling and asks him how sure he was that the reconciliation would work - he said he couldn't make promises.  The mistake she feels she made is that she never went to counselling with him.  Later, 2 attempts to drive his vehicle off the road, bit of a meltdown - divorce is started.  However, even when divorce is final, says he wants his family back and how he regrets everything.   It ends with a 'no' in this story but that was because of W's decision. 

Anyway, they keep in contact because of child.  But the same script was there, blame, projection, heavy drinking (anything goes), secretive, clothes, hiding/spending money at the beginning.

Now he is a very changed man.  She says she does not recognise some aspects of his personality and he kept up with alot of his hobbies that he started during his 'crisis', which she describes as being very alien to the person she knew and was married to.

He is with someone else now, but the circumstances described, from what I have been told, it isn't a fulfilling relationship.
BD Dec 11
BD Feb 13 - OW discovered
Moved out Nov 13 to live with OW

Offline alwayshope

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #107 on: July 10, 2013, 12:08:01 PM »
Callan - I cry sometimes when I remember the pain I have seen my H exhibit... now he only shows me monster, but I think mostly because I do not invite him around anymore.  That is self-protective, and maybe I should, but right now, I just don't feel I can.  Anyway, I was remembering when he was here for dinner one day after his mom left the country, he showed me some ugly, but when I asked him how he was?  Well.... he just shook his head, hung it down... and replied 'lost'.  And then 'I don't feel good on the inside anymore'.  My heart broke.  That was a glimpse into the reality of what he is struggling through, and I cannot allow myself to lose sight of that.  If I do, my compassion will go out the window.  I must distance myself for protection, but I must remember the struggle, I must continue to pray for him, because he is lost.  So lost.  Thank you for sharing!

Offline Songanddance

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2013, 12:13:55 PM »
My H has said repeatedly that he feels as though he is broken. He has said that he is confused and lost and doesn't know how to see his way. My D 22 has clinical depression and says that when she is going down it is like being in a big dark hole and she cannot see!
She says the blackness is all enveloping.
I am very convinced that H feels the same.

Offline alwayshope

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2013, 12:18:54 PM »
I wanted to share this!  I went to the RMM conference (I recommend it for all of you, next time they come around!!!), and I bought a few cd's.  One of the cd's is a testimony, high school sweethearts, married looooong time (forget exactly), 2 daughters in their last 2 years of high school, he was on top of the world career wise, but was doing a lot of traveling and their marriage just fell apart.  He wanted somebody to enjoy this life with him, etc... enter OW.  They did divorce, and were apart for 10 years (or more?).  At that point in time, his life began to unravel, lost his job, couldn't find one, etc... over time the relationship with OW unraveled as well, and they did end up divorcing.  However, the weekend that this man married the OW, the wife's sister had a dream, and this is what it was: she dreamt that she saw her sister's H getting married, and then saw him traveling down A LONG, DARK TUNNEL WITH DEMONS REACHING THEIR HANDS TOWARD HIM... at the end of the dream, she saw him back with his wife and their girls.  Struck me... the tunnel?  It's the real deal...

Offline Anjae

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #110 on: July 10, 2013, 12:33:35 PM »
Hi Callan,

Thank you for writing some more about her book.

It does confirm my feeling that although we feel like our MLCers have all the control that they feel like they have none at all .

MLCers have no control upon anything or anyone. That is why they try to be so controlling. Thinking her garden was her enemy because it become over grown …talk about being lost and depressed…

Panda, the story you told may not be MLC. It is not uncommon for a man to have an affair, and feel a bit lost/depressed, when a child is born. It is also not uncommon for the wife (or a LBS) to be the one who says no.

...she dreamt that she saw her sister's H getting married, and then saw him traveling down A LONG, DARK TUNNEL WITH DEMONS REACHING THEIR HANDS TOWARD HIM... at the end of the dream, she saw him back with his wife and their girls.  Struck me... the tunnel?  It's the real deal...

Oh yes, the tunnel is the real deal!
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline trusting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #111 on: July 10, 2013, 01:39:06 PM »
Quote
However, the weekend that this man married the OW, the wife's sister had a dream, and this is what it was: she dreamt that she saw her sister's H getting married, and then saw him traveling down A LONG, DARK TUNNEL WITH DEMONS REACHING THEIR HANDS TOWARD HIM... at the end of the dream, she saw him back with his wife and their girls.  Struck me... the tunnel?  It's the real deal...

Yikes!  That is a scary picture, although sounds about right.

I have never experienced major depression or anything like that myself.  I have heard and read plenty about it and know that there is the idea that they have no choice about some of their behaviors.

I will admit I really struggle with this idea, maybe because I have never felt that way myself.  I know that they have no choice about having a crisis. I get that. However, I can't imagine that they don't have any control over choices they have made.

No need to debate on this.  :)  I have "discussed" it a lot with other LBS (who don't agree with me).  I just struggle with it and know I may always, even if my husband does return.

Offline alwayshope

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #112 on: July 10, 2013, 02:01:49 PM »
Trusting - I totally get what you are saying.  It's so hard to KNOW for sure, isn't it?  In the return stories I have heard, the H always says that although he is lost in the fog, he knew what he was doing was wrong, just couldn't find his way out... Maybe when our H's return they can help shed some more light!

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #113 on: July 10, 2013, 02:11:00 PM »
Quote
I know that they have no choice about having a crisis. I get that. However, I can't imagine that they don't have any control over choices they have made.

This is a really great way to put it, and no debate here on that.  I oved that baby, AH, and it seemed fitting here - let's just hope these guys come out of the tunnel without a diaper full of more drama.  ;)
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Songanddance

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #114 on: July 10, 2013, 02:15:20 PM »
Trusting - yep agree but from my D's perspective when depression first hit her like a ton of bricks at 16 she ran away for months, drank, slept from couch to couch, touch and goes at home, was vitriolic about and to the counsellor we got her and didn't really return to the family per se till she was 18/19.
When she ran away I was given some very sound advice by my boss who had no children but was very empathetic...she said "keep the lines of communication and the door open"
I did and a transformed but utterly adorable young woman returned and now I have the best relationship with my D who has been incredibly insightful into sitch with H. My little psycho analyst  has had the guts to say to H - that he needed to leave and sort his head out however long that took. She would always love him  but she hated his actions and needed to have space from him.

Funny it wasn't until I have written this that I realise that that advice is so applicable now and for the last three months I made no parallel .....   

Offline BB64

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #115 on: July 10, 2013, 02:47:43 PM »
I was depressed for a very long time. 7 years all together. Chilhood issues of child abuse, not only upon myself but upon my brothers, too. I think that was actually the worst part; witnessing abuse, although it was on a different level to the one I was subjected to.
I was paralised by anxiety and negative thinking, so much so that I became agoraphobic.

I wouldn't say I was in a tunnel per se, but it does feel like your mind is stuck in a time warp, in fact, I find it hard to remember certain events which occurred during my depressive state. I was lost in time as I had nothing to refer to. For example: A fire errupted a few houses down from me.
My neighbour and I spoke about it a few months after it occured. I remember saying that it had happened 3 months ago. She looked at me in shock and said: No it didn't, it was over a year ago!

Also, one thing I would say is that my mind was pretty much broken, I knew that and believed it could not be fixed, that I was a 'freak', that no-one or nothing could fix me and that I was doomed to stay that way.

It wasn't until my H came back from a stag do abroad with his friends and said:
''I wish we could go away together''
It broke my heart to hear him say that.

I looked at him and said:'' I am so sorry. Come, on, let's get me out of this house''
And we did. I was petrified, I hadn't been in a car for years, the further I'd got was up the road, walking my dogs.
That day, we went everywhere, I could not be stopped.
This was 3 years ago this month.
I am now of course wondering if that was what triggered my H's MLC.
My new found freedom :-\
'Nothing worth having comes easy'
BD oct 1st 2012. 2 teens- 2 Dogs. Together 16 years, not married. No OW in sight. Foo issues a go-go.

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #116 on: July 10, 2013, 03:16:42 PM »
Having dealt with my own tendency towards depression, and having fallen a bit deeper at a few points in my life, I do know that when you're in it it colours everything.  The world really does look completely different, and if decisions are made based on that view they may very well be very bad ones. 

I remember saying to my H a few weeks or months into this that had he considered this (this was way before I knew anything about MLC), that I did know how it coloured everything.  My H has admitted to bouts of panic, not loving himself, and so on -- at various points during this journey.  But it's a scary place -- so he doesn't go there. 

Offline calamity

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #117 on: July 10, 2013, 04:51:47 PM »
...Panda, the story you told may not be MLC. It is not uncommon for a man to have an affair, and feel a bit lost/depressed, when a child is born. It is also not uncommon for the wife (or a LBS) to be the one who says no...

I understood that the birth of a child is one of the triggers of mlc.  It makes sense to me.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #118 on: July 11, 2013, 01:48:14 AM »
I had my S not long after my Dad died and was diagnosed with depression (although not as deep as some) 6 months later. H wasn't very supportive and totally pre-occupied with work and I could not have maternity leave as we couldn't afford it. So bingo - brief fling on my part for 10 days.
Not excusing myself or H but H has at least acknowledged this week that he now realises that he was not there when I needed him 15 years ago. He says he can't forgive me though......and now he's in MLC - god knows what is going through his mind,,,

Offline phantomstep

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #119 on: July 27, 2013, 08:34:21 AM »
 Thank you for this thread ! I read just about everything on this thread and everything is so eye opening . Everytime I read something new on this site seem like more eye opening than before.

My W seems like she is making it a little easy to think that she is going trough MLC , just by recent conversations I had with her.
I know she is not aware that she is going through it , but some of the things she says match up , like just yesterday we were talking about her getting that apartment in a couple of weeks and she said with tears in her eyes : " I know I will probably wake up in a few months and regret what I'm doing"  ( wow ).

Anyways , Just wanted to say that this thread is very helpful , just like the rest of this site....
Me: 37
W:33
S6
D9
BD: April 13 2013 - "Just want to be friends", " You should get a girlfriend" (WTF?!).
Moved out: 8 13 2013
Alienator discovered: 12 24 2013

Offline RivenIN2

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2013, 06:34:48 AM »
Just a thought for those of you that get stuck analysing this for are they/are they not MLC? During my time here and before I have noticed that many issues are similar and the advice here works for more then just MLC. There are many techniques for dealing with a non responsive or negitive spouse that will work even if it is not MLC.


Dont get caught over analysing your situations and using that as an excuse to stop reading the info here, just read everything before making any decisions, you never know what might help.


Just my 2 cents......

Offline Slow Fade

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #121 on: July 28, 2013, 06:41:26 AM »
Quote
the advice here works for more then just MLC
I agree Riven, I found what I had learned here very helpful when dealing with my Mom after her stroke.......it would have been a lot harder on me if I hadn't been learning about how to deal with MLC. It has applications on so many levels........
Married 18
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Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #122 on: August 28, 2013, 02:15:03 AM »

Just thought I would share something a freind of mine said , she has been suffering badly with depression and she said that it scared her that a some points she can not even feel anything for her children (and she dotes on them) . She said at times the only thing that stopped her running away was the fact that as her Husband travels alot there is no one else to take care of them .

Callan
xx

Online serenity

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #123 on: August 28, 2013, 02:59:21 AM »
Thank you Callan,

I really think that was a very valid post and another insight into this awful illness.

Just also like to say, for the record, what a brilliant, wonderful, kind and patient friend you are to me. Look forward to seeing you very soon, my lovely friend. I'm so grateful to this site for bringing us together!

X

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #124 on: August 28, 2013, 07:40:24 AM »
Callan~  I remember vividly my H saying (often)  "I just want to feel something"  can't imagine how awful and scary that would be!
Serenity, so nice that you two get to meet up :) enjoy!
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Online serenity

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #125 on: August 28, 2013, 08:28:13 AM »
Hi 31,

I hope you too, have managed to meet up with other LBS's from this site. It's been the best thing ever for me. I have lots of lovely friends, but none totally understand, so I hope you're lucky enough to have someone near you?

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again, my H says he wishes this was just all a nightmare and that he could just wake up and it's not real! How awful to live in their distorted world with no feelings.

X

Offline Dr. NO

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2013, 08:17:28 PM »
Recently I read a book  --- Many lives, Many masters.  Found it very useful, brought peace to me and felt liberated.  The book is written in 1988.

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #127 on: October 03, 2013, 03:02:21 AM »

I have posted often about my Fathers depression , he seems to have slipped in to a really dark spell again and his behaviour can only be described and strange but when he tells me what he has done he does not see anything wrong . He is living in his own reality at the moment which is where most of our MLC'ers live .

Here goes , this one is very strange but he does not see it . He has become obsessed with his own death, he has arranged his funeral and given me all of the details . He has also dug up his pet dog that passed away 2 years ago and put the remains in a basket in the attic. Part of his funeral plan is that he wants to be buried with the dog . Alot of people have been utterly gobsmacked by this , he thinks it is normal.

His depression and weird behaviour has been building over the last few weeks , and over the weekend he attended a 70th Birthday party for his ex wife (not my Mother) infront of a large table of people he started and argument and would not let it go, he then would not leave until he had finished his meal even though everybody else felt uncomfortable. He has now fallen out with everybody at the party. He feels that he is blameless in all of this .

On the day of his ex wifes actual birthday he harrassed her with petty demands for apologies even though he had cause all of the trouble and then ended the calls by calling her a $l*t .

He sat telling me this last night looking quite pleased with himself and almost proud . I was speechless to say the least , but in his reality he sees hmself as the victim and nothing at the moment will change that .

After telling me this he then started to tell me that he had been in hospital last week .  I was suprised as I knew he had been on holiday last week , it turns out he was actually talking about two months ago , again his reality is warped and his memeory is twisted .

I hope this gives some insight once more of how distorted the mind becomes with depression . I read an article a few days ago that called depression "The garbage truck" it comes along and dumps all of your bad memories , insecurities and anger in your mind on a constant video feed whilst blocking out all the good stuff in your life . Only when the garbage truck leaves can the good stuff start to come back .

Callan



Offline jos1.9

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #128 on: October 03, 2013, 03:08:59 AM »
Very interesting to read that Callan.  I know the bit about the time sounded familiar.  My H has said that things that happened months ago seemed like only days ago.  I have read somewhere that time is not linear to a depressed person - like a ball of string instead of the string being unravelled in a straight line the bits of string touch at different places in the ball.
Interesting that your father picks a fight with people around him.  This is what our H tends to do when they monster.
A good insight into the depressed mind. Thanks for posting.
1968 H and Me born
1992 Married
Ds born 2000 and 2006
May 2013 H left us
H continually stated that there is no OW
January 2014 H filed for Divorce
January 2014 H alludes & infers that there IS an OW
April 2014 H issues DECREE NISI
May 2014 H makes OW public
H continually states that OW R began December 2013
H asked for over a year to come home but asked in monster mode and I refused.
August 2016 H issues DECREE ABSOLUTE

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #129 on: October 03, 2013, 06:40:01 AM »
Oh my gosh CallanG, that is just terrible.  So scary isn't it? Such and awful sickness depression is.  Is he still on meds or had he ditched those?  How I hope H does not go there again, but I guess always a chance.
(((hugs)))
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Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #130 on: October 03, 2013, 06:48:25 AM »

Thanks 31, I think my Father is still on meds, but when he gets a bad bout the red mist decends and he is almost out of control .

I do see some of the same behaviour in H at the moment but not quite as extreme if that makes sense. The difference between my H and My Father is that I can see in the internal battle that my H is having because of what he has become. I can almost see different personalities fighting it out in him , and I do beleive that he hates feeling like this .

I think that my Father prefers to feel like this because then he does not have to feel anything . He will end up alone because he keeps pushing people away with he is awful behaviour and in the end people can only take so much .

Callan
x

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2013, 09:02:19 AM »
:(  That is so sad.  I hope this episode ends quickly for him without more incident.  It is absolutely frightening the power of the mind to work against us.  You are an amazing person to be able to view this from such a place of non-judgment.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #132 on: October 04, 2013, 01:35:05 AM »

Thanks R2T, I think with my Father I have come to realise that he is what he is and therefore you just have to go with the flow . If you fight it its mores stressful . Much like dealing with MLC , it is best to step back and try and let them work through it.

I think that dealing with my Father for so many years has helped me see My Hs behaviour for what it is , but its harder to step back when it is your H and the hurtful comments seem to hurt so much more . I think I am realising finally that he has to sort all of this in his head and I really can do nothing to help him .

Callan
xx

Offline Songanddance

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #133 on: October 04, 2013, 08:07:55 AM »
This reminds me of an interesting story from a female colleague whose father has just died. In short it is clear he had MLC - left his wife of 25 years, vanished, married but my colleague never met her (she was apparently younger than my colleague his daughter but they D'd some years later)
Her father developed dementia which made him angry the whole time and my colleague said that she never really reconciled with him but he put all his affairs in order. He wrote the eulogy and insisted on every detail including where he wanted to be buried and how! This was a year before he passed. Her mother sadly committed suicide ten years after he had vanished as he had taken all the money and left them with nothing. My colleague said that the eulogy stated that he had no regrets in his life but he was sorry that he had treated "Her" so badly but it had to be done. The her is an exact quote and my colleague was never sure if it meant her mother, the OW or herself.
Very Sad but my colleague is one of the most upbeat and positive Christian people I know so it's not all doom and gloom.


Offline CallanG

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2013, 04:11:52 AM »

I was talking with my IC yesterday about how H has no idea how his behaviour impacts on other people, all he cares about is the space imediately around him .

She told me of a client who was severly depressed and had attempted to kill herself several times and one of these attempts had been in front of her children . It was only when the fog of depression start to clear several months later that she had any idea of the impact that it would have had on her children , until that point it never evern entered her mind .

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2013, 06:12:34 AM »
Wow, so scary and so so sad.  I can't imagine feeling so low, in such a fog that you did not know that!!!
sheds some light huh?
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Offline calamity

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2013, 08:46:31 AM »
I always come back to suicide when I cannot believe what these people do in mlc.  Parents of young children DO kill themselves because they think their kids will be better off without them.  Depression is unfathomable & strange but nonetheless real.  Maybe others would take this more seriously if it was called midlife depression.

Offline riverbirch

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2013, 12:59:20 PM »
It doesn't enter your mind how much impact it has on others because all you want, is for the pain to go away.
Me 51
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet

Offline UKStander

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2013, 03:16:49 PM »
Hi Callan

Reading your accounts of your father's behaviour with interest - as mine was depressed most of his life, as I think I told you. He ended up in psych unit of hospital at c.80, having tried to kill himself. I think the guilt, of leaving my mother and me (at 50) wore him down in the end, plus the new marriage was not all it was cracked up to be (he drank heavily throughout, which he'd never done in the time with my mother).  Downhill from the moment he hooked up with OW, really.  I wonder how much was chemical and something he couldn't avoid, and how much was FOO issues. His father beat on him, and, so I'm told, his mother often just delivered him into the hands of his father when he'd been naughty. A double whammy. He had no belief in himself, of that I'm quite sure.

I'm interested in how self-belief can just be beaten out of a person at a young age. The extent to which that happens must have some bearing on whether they can ever recover and get themselves up out of the self-imposed hole again. But who knows.  Our H's have us - and we understand more than most. For that they should be extremely grateful!  When they awaken.

I'm sorry we still find ourselves here.  TIme will change things. Maybe our legacy of fathers with mlc means we'll be stronger than most. Maybe that's why we're here….

Greetings and strength to you.
BD June 2011
Affair discovered; three moves out and three attempts at return during 11/12, culminating in "I'm not coming back" statement. Then DIY separation agreement - Feb 14 - which I wouldn't sign. Now living with OW since Sept 14. In Feb 16 he said he 'just needed the money'. I think I have to frame this within a divorce, for protection and to know I can keep my home. So I've initiated. It's slow moving.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #139 on: November 16, 2013, 01:23:21 AM »
I have a friend who has just had an experience with an MLCer but we only just realised it.  A few months ago an old boyfriend contacted her on facebook and told her he had been looking for her for years.  She is single, having been divorced for about 7 years.  He must have made quite an impression on her because they started a long distance relationship and she considered moving to his town.  She has 2 lovely boys but started to get a little disappointed that her boyfriend never seemed too interested in them.  They decided to meet and she reported that he was like a randy high school teenager.  He said "I am going to pay you the best compliment ever" and then told her how many times he had masturbated to her in the intervening years.....NICE  :o :o ??? ???

Ok, so now she is getting a little concerned.  She decides to give it another go and visits his town.  By day 2, she has called friends who also live in that town to come and rescue her from an unshowered selfish pig who drinks far too much.

Not sure on his LBS status but she had been told that he had broken up with his partner a while ago and it was amicable.  His ex partner had a daughter who is grown but had referred to him as Dad and had the same surname.  Doesn't see much of her either.

Thank goodness she escaped.  We couldn't believe that while she is travelling this journey with me, she gets to visit the other side.  He sounded YUK!!!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Offline Sunny

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #140 on: November 17, 2013, 02:51:23 AM »
an unshowered selfish pig who drinks far too much.


Sounds like H!!  ;D ;D

Offline Disneyme

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #141 on: November 17, 2013, 04:58:13 AM »
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but reading the stages of MLC over and over on different websites I had a question that I guess only can be answered by the recovered MLC'er.

The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it? Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do? Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.

I wonder if the counseling with him and the kids may make it worse since he feels validated by saying how I made him feel and that the problems the kids have are because I don't help them transition into his new world. They usually don't hold the MLC're accountable for his actions. They force the kids into accepting the situation.

Offline limitless

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #142 on: November 17, 2013, 06:33:53 AM »
DM,

Quote
The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it?
I think it can be triggered by an event.  But, not necessarily.

The MLCer will remain in Replay until challenged either externally or internally.  (Hitting rock bottom).  As no one truly knows another person's rock bottom - I don't think you can really see it from the outside.  (What YOU or I would see as "rock bottom" may not be so for the MLCer.  It's amazing how low they can go...and not hit rock bottom).

Quote
Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do?
  I have read a few examples of this - but I think this is rare.  MLC "recovery" isn't like turning on or off a faucet.  Conway describes it like waves coming to shore from far off at sea.  Many times it is a gradual process - with attempts to return to Replay activity - to avoid hitting rock bottom and having to face one's shadow.

Quote
Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.
Throughout the crisis - I believe things are said or things happen that may make the MLCer "think."  But, during Replay, the MLCer will run and avoid.  The "moments of clarity" occur when the MLCer is alone with his thoughts (even if he is in a crowded room - he still can be alone with his thoughts, by the way) - and he will start to think.  But, thinking about it is too painful and he is in denial - so he goes back to Replay to "fix" that feeling and make it go away.

As Old Pilot has stated, many times, the MLCer has to go down many, many cheese-less tunnels before facing his issues.

I think we all are curious how "recovery" comes about.  If you read actual MLCers' accounts of leaving the tunnel - even they can't describe it very well or very clearly.

As for counseling "making it worse."  It gets worse (before it gets better) regardless.  If he goes to counseling to justify his actions (or not) it is not within your control.   Let it be.



M -56,  ExH - 63 (56 at BD)
M - 33 years (do the last 3 years count?)
D - 26, D -22, S - 22 (all at home w/me)
BD 5/29/2010, Ran away from home - 8/15/2010,
Found out about affair - 2/11
H asks for divorce - 8/11
H filed for divorce 10/11
Announced "new" girlfriend 12/12 (3rd OW)
Divorce final 06/13 (I decided to finish it)
Dumped OW 9/15 (After 4 years)
Seeing OW#1 again
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Offline Trustandlove

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #143 on: November 18, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
I think Limitless has it right.  I can say from my own experience, many, many years ago when I got my life into a huge mess aged much younger than an MLCer, that coming out of it appeared to others around me as sudden, but that in reality it was several years.

I pushed on and on with the route I had taken, I'm don't remember anymore the exact things that happened, but at one point things that people had been saying for years started to sink in.  I still didn't think that I could change anything; I was totally convinced that I had made my choices and that was that.  Then the big thing -- that I didn't want to hear "I told you so".   I was embarrassed about my life, but brazened it out.  Then finally the thought that "I'll face the I-told-you-so; they were right".   From then it was quick, and that is what people on the outside saw. 

Oh, and btw, by then no one said "I told you so". 

Maybe it was the reverse of what our MLCers experience going into the tunnel; we don't see the turmoil before BD; others didn't see the turmoil before I came out.  And even then it wasn't all roses right away; I had quite a bit of fixing to do, but then I just got on with it. 

The dangerous thing of course is to look at the timeline for me back then (6 years) and think that because that is what I did, that my MLCer will do the same, or should do, or whatever.  Each journey is individual. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:57:26 PM by Trustandlove »

Offline Searching4Answers

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2013, 07:54:47 AM »
I think Limitless has it right.  I can say from my own experience, many, many years ago when I got my life into a huge mess aged much younger than an MLCer, that coming out of it appeared to others around me as sudden, but that in reality it was several years.

I pushed on and on with the route I had taken, I'm don't remember anymore the exact things that happened, but at one point things that people had been saying for years started to sink in.  I still didn't think that I could change anything; I was totally convinced that I had made my choices and that was that.  Then the big thing -- that I didn't want to hear "I told you so".   I was embarrassed about my life, but brazened it out.  Then finally the thought that "I'll face the I-told-you-so; they were right".   From then it was quick, and that is what people on the outside saw. 

Oh, and btw, by then no one said "I told you so". 

Maybe it was the reverse of what our MLCers experience going into the tunnel; we don't see the turmoil before BD; others didn't see the turmoil before I came out.  And even then it wasn't all roses right away; I had quite a bit of fixing to do, but then I just got on with it. 

The dangerous thing of course is to look at the timeline for me back then (6 years) and think that because that is what I did, that my MLCer will do the same, or should do, or whatever.  Each journey is individual. 


Thanks Trustandlove  ;) This is the impression that I get from my H and it makes a lot of sense to me. It just so frustrating to not be able make our MLCer 'get it'.
We all do damage. Character is determined by how we repair it.


BD - December 2012
OW1 confirmed - December 2012 on-and-off for 34 months and counting (still refers to her as just a 'friend')
Wants to live like roommates - November 2013
I moved out - April 2015
H is still checking the anchor

Offline riverbirch

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2013, 04:22:13 PM »
For me it was almost losing my husband for good. He ended up having a revenge A and started acting awful towards me. He was deeply depressed and didn't care about anything anymore. I was kicked out of my home, landed myself in jail a couple time(charges dropped) and while I was living out of my home I started reading about affairs. It showed me what and why I was doing what I did.

Almost losing everything is what snapped me out of it real quick. He had even filed for divorce and I had the papers ready to sign but I couldn't do it. I texted him and told him I didn't want a divorce on the day, I was suppose to sign them. I no longer wanted anything to do with the other man and vowed to straighten out.
Me 51
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet

Offline Braincell77

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #146 on: December 22, 2013, 04:09:16 AM »
O
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but reading the stages of MLC over and over on different websites I had a question that I guess only can be answered by the recovered MLC'er.

The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it? Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do? Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.

I wonder if the counseling with him and the kids may make it worse since he feels validated by saying how I made him feel and that the problems the kids have are because I don't help them transition into his new world. They usually don't hold the MLC're accountable for his actions. They force the kids into accepting the situation.

My cousin is very high up in the chain for the biggest UK mental health charity. We have spoken and he believes that a big shock such as death or illness in the family or maybe getting in a dangerous situation during replay can cause the brain to 'ping back like an elastic band'.  There is then the guilt and realisation to deal with so it will not always be apparent for all to see.

In regards to the mortality comments on another post, my W is 34 and has become convinced she will be dead by 52 as her mum died at that age. She has verbalised this at least 5 times in the last 5 months. So rather than trying practical steps to prelong her life she is now smoking more,drinking more,smoking weed and mixing all this with AD,s. Am I missing something?????
My god this ride is bumpy but imagine the relief when we get off!

Offline OldPilot

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2017, 05:14:52 AM »
Here is a series of threads starting here  of  denjef31 who also navigated through the fog.

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412.0

Offline OldPilot

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #148 on: July 29, 2017, 01:05:13 AM »

An insight into the thinking of a MLCer..interesting read with a twist at the end


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939#Post1968939

I don’t know where to begin. Jan 10th, 2009…I walked away. Packed it all up, H came home and I told him I was leaving him. He had no idea things were wrong even though the last three – five years I told him things were not right. I told him November 2008 that I was looking for my own apartment and hoped to be out on my own January 2009. He didn’t believe me or hear me or wanted to comprehend. My brother ended up passing away December 2008 so much more added stress which took me out of state to tend to funeral and what not.

The 3-5 years prior I had gained a lot of weight. Our marriage was based on common interests and activity. The verbal abuse of my weight gain and the nagging became tiresome. I had even resorted to triathlons to drop the weight to no avail. I became the pre-WAW, withdrew, started putting money away so I could leave. During this time I did not know at the time, but I was having an EA which then turned into a PA in Sept 08, which I am currently in and starting to come out of the fog.

In the past year I have filed for D in June, lived with OM and H. Back and forth four or five times. The last time I moved back to H, he was doing the groveling, begging and telling me he loved me, all common things NOT to do. I was back in the “night mare” and decided it was time to get out of all this. Last Friday was mediation day to “settle”. SHIAT, too easy. D is just too damned EASY. I feel I have put 110% into marriage with a self centered person. I TOLD him things were not going well. I TOLD him we needed counseling. I TOLD him if he didn’t pay attention to his wife, she would be gone. I TOLD him if he told me one more time if “you don’t like it you can leave” that I WOULD leave. I NEVER nagged, that I know of. Maybe I should have. He told me he has changed. He wanted to show me. He wanted me to give it an honest shot. I just couldn’t with all the “whining and groveling” he was doing. I’ve been in IC most of my married life trying to figure out what my problem was. Why wasn’t my marriage working out? My fault? Why do I truly feel that I haven’t done everything I could possibly do to save my marriage? Even though I DID the work? I went to the IC. I read the self help books on trying to save the marriage. WTF??

At the time I made my decision to leave my H, I had gotten WLS (weight loss surgery). OM was telling my how wonderful I was and beautiful I was w/o the surgery. Even tried to talk me out of the surgery. GEE who am I going to turn to? The H that has conditions of weight on the marriage or the OM that is full of compliments no matter what?

What brought me here? I was at a bookstore looking for a book on how to deal with the emotion of a divorce. What was next to that book I wanted? DR! I picked up DR and found the section on a WAW and just started BAWLING my eyes out and that has brought me to this forum.

There is NO OTHER person that I will find that will have the same common interests, activities, views on life, etc.

As it stands, I am living in another state with OM. I had no where else to go because H shut all credit cards off and closed checking accounts and wasn’t giving me spousal support. He wouldn’t give me any money till we saw the mediator and it was all in writing. (My option was to live with H or to opt out and go live with OM for I have NO family or friends in the area) If I ordered spousal support through the court that put us into litigation instead of mediation. All that’s left for D to be final is to get a listing of the assets, VIN #’s on vehicles, check to the mediator and our judgment will be typed up for us to sign and for it to go to the judge.

How do I work through all this? How do I get my H to give me one more shot? I will be calling for phone coaching.
_________________________
Me: WAW/MLC 41
H: 42
M: 16 yr T: 20
Me: EA/PA started Sept 2008
D: Anytime, just need to sign papers
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939&page=1



I first posted this about a week ago in Newcommers. First Post (I don't know the best place to put this and don't want any confusion.) Since then I have been reading everything I can and processing.

For those of you that know about "why they run" can you provide more sources of information? I am desperately trying to figure out and as fast as I can, how and why and how to come out of being the runner AGAIN. I DO want to work on this with my H, but I don't want to run again.

The "fog" has been lifting from my current status since I have FINALLY been able to have separate time way from both H and OM. I do know I need to leave OM and I will. I am just trying to gather the funds to get me back to CA and in a month to month apt, close to H.

H doesn't know I want to get back together but the funny thing is, I believe our mediator does. She is dragging her feet on typing up the judgment, then again she did tell us she was taking a vacation.

I had a crappy IC. She was helping me to do the "push" of getting out of the marriage.

How do I get my H to do the 180 and go dark? I need him to stop being so passive. I need him to read DR but I don't know how to go about it.

Not sure what other information I can give.


Edited by Jasmine (03/28/10 05:27 PM)


Originally Posted By: Lostforwords
Jasmine,

The solution for any problems starts with the first step.

What is you first step?


My first step is to contact H and let him know I want to work on things. The reason not to? What you and Kimmie Lee have pointed out, the conditions of the marriage on the weight loss. Still trying to evaluate my R with H. As you said, unhealthy.


Quote:
Therapists are a fickle bunch. Some agree with the patient completely such as the first few that my wife saw. The agreed with any she said and looked for problems outside the patient instead of addressing the patients problems.


I whole heartedly agree. Red flags every where on this one.

Quote:
Welcome to MLC board....we do things different here, but I think you might like it:)


Thank you! I find you all to throw 2x4's and I need them.

Snodderly, Thank you.

I am 41. M passed away when I was 5. F remarried when I was 9. F passed away 5 years ago and I was estranged from him. Yep, daddy issues. Lost immediate family connections when F remarried. In the last few years, searched them all out and have reconnected with them.

"Ran away" from an old life (dad and step family) when I was 21. Met H. Ran away from him 20 years later.

Daddy Issues
Abandonment Issues
Self Esteem Issues

I know I cannot expect H to do all the work but he needs to do some of it. I've been in IC for over half of our M lives. I jumped up and down screaming we both needed to work on us prior to running from the M.

I really want to believe he is doing 180. No texts, emails or phone calls in a week from him. I have not contacted him either.

I am really working on myself.



Thank you Trent.

I whole heartedly agree on ending the A. I WILL do this first.


Originally Posted By: TrentC


I want to make sure I understand the situation.

* You filed for divorce and are living with OM.
* Your husband wants you to come back, but is displaying all of the behaviors that we tell people not to do. (Crying, begging, etc.)
* You want to work on reconciliation.
* You have been doing IC but your husband has not. There has been no MC.


YES. MC came "a little too late" a year ago this May.

I don't think H would do Retrouvaille. I know he would do a 1-1 with Michelle. I am planning on a DB phone coaching sometime this week for just myself.

Question: Should I move back to our rental house with H? It's a three bedroom. Will stop all D proceedings which would help both of us financially. I just don't want to do this and then RUN again and put us both threw another slew of emotional rollercoaster rides. I guess that's the chance I take!


Edited by Jasmine (03/28/10 06:34 PM)
_________________________
Me: WAW/MLC 41
H: 42
M: 16 yr T: 20
Me: EA/PA started Sept 2008
D: Anytime, just need to sign papers
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939&page=1


Lostforwords:
Thank you for your kind post and addressing some very important issues. No, I have NEVER stood on my own. My insecurities thinking I "could never make it on my own" have always taken over.

The thing about the OM I didn't know/think he was the OM once I left the M. Now that I am coming out of the fog, I do and I am REALLY SEEING THE LIGHT.

JTB:
THANK YOU for taking the time to respond.

I really HOPE and really WANT LBS to want to change. I think he knows he SHOULD change and do the work, but I cannot be sure for I am trying to go dark on my end and work through my crap. Whether or not we get back together, I really hope that we have BOTH worked through our issues and can have healthy, happy two sided relationships.

1st: Thank you. I am not saying I have a strong backbone and can handle the spousal projections but I invite it for I hope I can help those that I trying to find answers as you all will be able to help me.

2nd: This has been my stalling tactic. I have been searching and analyzing my goals.


Edited by Jasmine (03/31/10 12:47 AM)
Crushed:

Thank you for your honesty. If you still have what you typed up to slam me, feel free. I will do my best to be as informative and helpful as best I can. This is very vivid and fresh in my mind. You can even pm me.

My best advice is what DB and DR is telling you, don't beg and plead. The sooner you can go dark the better. To show that you and the kids have moved on, the better.

journaling:
I truly believe my sit is different than the stereotype. I cannot recall when but at some point, several years ago, I believe my H started his MLC and his OW was his road bike and mountain bike. He decided to better himself and not involve me. As he was getting fitter and fitter I was just existing. I would still surf, kitesurf, mtn bike, hike and camp with him, just not at the TOP level as him. He wasn't happy that I was doing things to the best that he thought I should have been doing. He wasn't happy that I was just out there doing things.

As I went along on him being my athletic coach, I would get hurt. I broke the glassed in fin off in the back of my upper thigh. Trip to emergency room

I crashed HARD mountain biking and had a nice chunk taken out of my calf. Again, a trip to the emergency room.

Kite Surfing....pretty dangerous sport at the time...I was scared and all I heard was, "more time on the water the better you get."

Road Biking...I didn't feel safe out on the road. I didn't have the skills.

Vicious cycle. For me to the be the ULTIMATE wife, I needed to be his ULTIMATE buddy. I did these sports, some because I LOVED the sport, some because I LOVE him. When I got injured, It took me a while to regain my confidence and I was turning to food to "comfort" me.

Through out the years, I just ate and ate to keep myself not being able to participate. Then, I had my ass ridden because I couldn't participate and now I needed to wear a heart rate monitor and we would download my workouts weekly and he would evaluate me. I tried my best to participate and couldn't. The last 3 years I had heard him utter the ugly words, "if you don't like it, you can leave." UGH...Bu bye....

I helped build OUR business with sacrifices of no car and riding the bus to work our first couple of years together. I even agreed to move into an apartment above his parents house to save money to get our own place. We were married for 16 years and lived there for 13. The money we "supposedly" were to save went to traveling and expensive toys. I am taking responsibility for not standing up and saying this isn't right but he was bringing in most of the money and I felt that was how it was.

I am taking responsibility for so much in this. I wish he would do the same. He couldn't explain to me why he would say "if you don't like it you can leave" and then I finally did. His explanation for the fitness stuff is that he was more concerned about my health more than anything and that he wanted me to enjoy these sports as much as him and that meant being at his level.

OP, Mach, and Cat,
Thank you for your posts, the kind words and the links to archives. I've been doing my damnedest to read everything and absorb everything as fast as possible.

I am a tad confused on reading some other people's stories. They want their WAS to come back and work on things and to live under the same roof. Isn't that what I should do? I know I am trying to find myself but I also want to save my my marriage. Shouldn't I be doing this work under the "marital home"?

Maybe some answers to what was asked of me above and definitely some more journaling:

I am angry about the fact as to where did I go as a person? What happened to the independent, strong willed, ambitious woman that I was when I met my H?

H had a goal and life and already knew what he wanted for himself career wise. The agreement was build his business first. Get him successful and then to work on my career. Throughout the years, we both became comfortable in the daily grind and we traveled a lot, where I should have been going to school. He started to become more and more successful and I felt I was being left behind. He brought home the big checks, where my paychecks were hobby money. H became more successful and needed me to be the bookkeeper not to mention it was tough for me to hang onto my personal clients while we traveled so much.

H became the sole money maker and THAT’S where I surrendered myself esteem and my self worth. Money is control and I allowed myself to be controlled by the money that was coming into the marriage. A spiraling depression set in where I was also suicidal. That is also where I believe he felt H had to take control of me as well and I THANK him for that.

While in the EA with the OM, he was boosting my ego and my self esteem. My driving force to pick up and leave. Imagine that. At that point again, I was spiraling into another depression and was looking to check into a depression facility. Depression facility or leave the situation that was bringing me to this breaking point?

What is killing me the most right now is being dark when I feel I shouldn’t be. I have never told H the why’s to my behavior. I just recall him so upset and distraught when I left the last time. All he wanted to do was talk. I would hear NONE of it. Some words that he uttered to me as I was leaving that probably had the shift in the fog were, “You need to stay and work on this. You will do the same thing in another relationship and you will keep doing it till you work this out.” WTF did that come? Was he really trying to work on himself?

H text me yesterday and asked If I have heard from the mediator. I had not. Last we left it, she was to type up the judgment. I am to have an attorney look it over and then we sign the papers. His text was, “I want to get this over with as soon as possible.”

Facebook incident Monday: I had H blocked from my wall because I was sharing pics of where I was currently and what I was doing. No pics of the OM but I didn’t want to hurt H any more than I have. I ended up cleaning up my FB, weeding out everyone but family and a couple of good hearted friends. I had a lot of the bad seeds blocked and thought why block just unfriend. I ended up unblocking H. That same day, he is never on FB, he changed his marital status to single and looking for women. That just threw the dagger into my heart. STILL I am NC with him and it effing hurts!

There is no handbook on marriage and the trials and tribulations. I married for life I don’t know who this person is that is my skin. Where did this person come from? The whirlwind has just been so messed up. I never looked at other men and never wanted to be with any one else. MESSED UP.

Currently, I have a NASTY inner ear infection and I have an appointment with an IC next week. The inner battle I am having is taking its toll. I am still waiting on some $$ that I had as a deposit on my last rental to move back to CA. I need first and last month’s rent and some small move in costs.

I SO want to break NC and call H for a date or just to talk to him and to talk this out.

Quote:

I am still a bit confused as to who is having the crisis here, you or your H. Or both.


As I am doing the work I am thinking we BOTH are having our MLC!

Quote:
Personally, I think that your first step is to work on yourself and worry about the M later. If you D and reconcile or if you don’t D and reconcile, you have still reconciled and honestly, that can’t happen until you have both made some changes.


I am starting to see this to being the best option as well

Quote:
Why are you dark?


I am trying to do the work and not drag him into my drama till I have a clear head of what I KNOW what I want. I don't want to play the emotional games of the back and forth and back and forth. I want to sit down with him and honestly be able to communicate with him my wants and needs. He does need to know and I will relay this to him.

Quote:
Jasmine, one other thing, and not trying to be mean---why the sudden change of heart? Seriously...


Nothing mean taken...an honest question...this hasn't come on suddenly...I wanted to be a cake eater. One fulfills lifelong goals and the other was just helping me to feel better IN THE MOMENT. The honeymoon phase with the OM has long since past and I was able to see his true colors unfortunately at the cost of my M and my H's feelings. BTW, the OM was having a MLC too.

Thank you very much Cat and OldPIlot. Thanks to all of you for giving me the condensed version of goal setting and listing the questions to ask myself. I was feeling a bit overwhelmed with the information in the book.


Edited by Jasmine (04/02/10 03:17 PM)


journaling and info:

Quote:
“coming out of the fog”


There have been so many "WTF" moments all I can do is laugh till I cry. My lack of judgement and self esteem is more apparent with OM than it was when I left H!

Rico Suave, aka OM, swept me off my feet. Remember, he too is in a MLC. I am 16 years younger. I look just like his STBX. I've done the same FI (financial infidelities) in my marriage that she has done in theirs. He promised me the world. I was the most beautiful person he has ever met/seen. His profession is my "dream" and that's what we had in common. Well, I don't like his profession, it's not what I thought, nor do I like how he conducts his business. He's an opportunist and has co-dependency issues. Great combination he and I!

My attraction to men is the "Alpha Dog" so to speak. Well, the dominating controlling personality is bull$h!te. I believe when Mr Suave was pursuing me he didn't really see the "real me". The strong minded, independent person (now that I am coming out of the fog) and not the little push over that he "thought" I was.

I got myself into a situation that is not good. He knew I was financially strapped and he "will take care of everything". HA, he has no money. He took care of everything up to a certain point now he's asking me for money. Because of the finances, I am living in his vacation home till I get the $$$ to get the hell out of here and this situation!

Please be careful on cutting your WAS off on finances. We get into a state of mind where our backs are against the wall and will take any sort of help to get out. OM secluded me. I have no cell service where I live, I have to drive 15 mins to get service, there is a land line that I do use and lots of people know where and who I am with. When I would get into my car and leave to make phone calls the "controlling monster" would take a ride into town with me, so no phone calls.

Right now, he helped move me out and decided to put all my stuff into storage for me with his own lock and key. He said he only had one key.

Me getting away from OM is more than just, "I am done with you, we are breaking up." I need help doing this. I have to move two cars out of state, get bolt cutters to cut the lock on storage and pack up a U-haul. I have mentally left him, haven't been having any P contact in over a month plus he is back and forth in two states for work wise. AGAIN, a runner. AGAIN, I am trying to face my fears, get a backbone, not be a runner with OM either.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I consider him a great friend, even after all of the above. No matter the bashing on this that I am sure is due to come my way, this is MY phase and MY steps of getting out of MY fog. I KNOW deep down it's a "sick" friendship. It's the physical breakaway that is going to cure me of this thought process.

Originally Posted By: cat04

Even if you are not running from him, are you running TO your H?


I AM doing the work first to get back to my H. Right now, I am afraid H will just shine it off as ANOTHER emotional roller coaster ride. I need to show him first by physically leaving OM and I need to tell him by continuing to do the work on myself and prove it to him with what I speak. I have ran from H 5 times and OM 4. Just packed it all up and left. I am the master of running which is quite shameful in itself.

I am stalling big time on my contacts with the mediator and I am thankful that she is the type, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. H could have called her office himself and asked what he needed to know but he didn't. He asked me to. I did, left a message with her and she never got back to me. That's how she is. I know it, but H doesn't.

You are in no way asking too many questions. Your questions really make me look deep at myself and honestly help me to gain my strength and momentum.


Edited by Jasmine (04/03/10 09:50 PM)


How has this been different from the way you left your Marriage ?
I ran from H 5 times and OM 4 times. This time I actually am preparing myself for communication with OM.

The way you decided to leave your Marriage ?

communication

Do you feel that this was a choice that you made?

A conscious choice to end your marriage ?

Or was this a burning desire to act on what you felt was missing in your life, and that you felt your spouse was not giving to you?

Those questions run into one another. It was a choice I made, SEVERAL years ago to leave my marriage. I had told my H things were not working and that we needed some help. He didn't hear it or wanted to. I tried to express to my H that I wanted a career and wanted to go back to school but travels wouldn't allow it. So, the next step, put up the walls of not working on the marriage, to just exist, and start to get things rolling on my end on what I needed done. I needed to put away money for my move. I needed to finish up business obligations. At this point in my life, OM was a friend. My EA started in 2007.

During this point, we are living in a 2 bedroom apartment above my IL. My H's job sites were close to home so I became a prisoner. EVERYONE knew where I was or what I was doing and would report back to H not on purpose just general conversation. IL, the construction crew, the neighbors, etc. I needed something for myself. It was MY turn to pursue my career, my schooling, my interests but I had surrendered so much control to H that by then it was too late. I became insecure and mousy. H was used to making all the decisions and when I finally made a decision it was too late, he already decided for himself what we were doing or what I was doing. Because he was the money maker, I allowed that control.

I have had oppurtunity to speak to several MLCers that have come through the tunnel, and all of their stories, while being different, still have the same aspects to them.....

That they knew what they were doing was wrong , but that they could not change the path they were on.

That this destruction HAD to happen for them to see that what they were missing did not come from the outside. And to look inside of themselves was NOT an option until what they felt was causing their unhappiness was removed from their lives.

I did not know that what I was doing was wrong till the day I left. By then, I was literally psycho woman and no one could talk me out of anything. I had the right brain left brain fighting me. YES, wholeheartedly agree this HAD to happen for me to take a good look at myself. H said the same thing. That this had to happen for him to see what he was doing to me and how selfish he had been behaving. I truly believe he is changing as well.

Jas....YOU are on a good path right now for you....

THANK YOU! I feel good but depression is now starting to get the best of me. I am doing my damnedest to fight it.

And once again, please say if you are overwhelmed.

Not overwhelmed. You ask me deep questions that energize me, give me strength and motivation

Have a great Easter...

Thank you. You too

Trustingfaith,
Thank you! I am so glad your H is coming out of the fog. It's a wake up call of emotional drainage. Lot's of ups and downs. Lot's of "aha moments". Lot's of WTF moments. And because of all of this, I know I have mentally left OM, I run to his arms for hugs and just bawl my eyes out. He thinks it's because of me leaving H and M but it's just because I need someone to just put their arms around me and say I am going to be ok. Right now, I really wish it was my H. But I have to earn those arms that are a state away.


WOW! Lost, what an amazing point you just made to me. Cat, thank you for the extras. You both put so much into perspective.

I am SCARED to live alone. I have NEVER lived alone but I know I need to and I know I WANT to heal myself.

Easter Sunday is a tough day for me, our first "date" was on Easter 20 years ago. I text H: "Hi. I am just thinking of you and dog on this day. Hope you both are well." Yeah, I heard nothing back since and I expected that.

Tomorrow is my first apt with IC. Depression is coming on hard and strong. I am really trying to diffuse it the best I can. I am going to bring in the DR book and show her what I am working on.

BTW, I am working on detachment. It works with OM.

Goodfight, Thank you. It's so hard to think of living alone but it's going to be the best therapy for me and I know it, actually I am looking forward to it. I wish you luck in all of this. I am sorry for your H and all the hurt he has caused you. I know I am sorry for all the hurt I have caused my H.

Journaling:
I am at a point right now where I don't really KNOW if I want my marriage to work. I am now waking up in the middle of the night with conversations playing over and over that were not nice conversations with H. I know our previous R/M is dead and we will have to start over but the "old" keeps coming up. I am working on the detachment from OM and it's getting easier and easier. WTF was I thinking?

I made contact with H via email and he replied back saying he is confused with all the roller coaster of emotions I continue to display. SHIAT! I didn't want him to feel that. I just wanted to extend a nice gesture of Easter Wishes. I became angry/hurt that he didn't respond. Then I fired back with an emotional email that triggered him. The last thing I wanted was to draw him back into "my drama". He has kept on pushing for the divorce and why hasn't the mediator gotten back to us with the typed up judgment. I got scared that he had moved on and GAL. I am not ready for him to move on to another life. I want him to work on our M but I can't get "us" to that point till I have physically left OM. That time is getting closer and closer.

I know, I know....we need to work on ourselves first. I want us to get to that point to open up the communication with him for him to work on himself and me to work on myself.

First meeting with therapist went well. She won't put me on meds yet. I am tempted to just go to ER for an induced coma of morphine for a few days of rest and turn off the brain just for a few hours!

GF,
I responded in your thread as well.

Yes, I very much missed my husband and our lifestyle. I did NOT miss the mean and nastiness that he had projected towards me though.

I ALWAYS thought about going back but then I was brought back to WHY I left. I did not leave because of OM. I left because our M was pretty crappy, in my eyes not in H's. OM was just willing to help me out.

I did come back to H SEVERAL times and HE did not do work to better himself. He was needy, insecure, whiney, etc. I grew annoyed with the ILY and the "forced" change. He truly wasn't not himself. It was hard for me to be around him while HE is walking on eggshells being totally insecure, yet doing everything HE thought possible to "keep me" from leaving him. That wasn't the change I wanted or needed.

OM became controlling and kept me from having much contact with H. I wanted to contact him. I wanted to communicate with him but when I did, I had a manipulative person "taking care" of me and it wasn't worth the current battle with OM. I was just so happy to be away from H and M.

I LOVED it when H contacted me but OM became jealous and annoyed. The mind frame I was in, I couldn't think or act for myself, I allowed myself to be controlled an manipulated by OM.

journaling and info:
I wished I had gone out on my own and not the OM route. I was desperate to move, I needed help to move and OM saw opportunity. As I am coming out of the fog, man, I cannot BELIEVE I was so manipulated and controlled. More so in the A than in the M with H. Talk about SERIOUS self esteem issues. Currently, OM is getting scared. He is sensing my independence and my fog clearing and is freaking. I have to take this slow on my break from him. My best friend calls him a stalker.

Journaling:

Today is 16th Wedding Anniversary. What I have concluded so far? Both of us are in a MLC. Very down day.

Journaling:

Today I am awaken with new thoughts. BOTH of us are/were in a MLC. BOTH of us need to do the work.

Hard, emotional month so far. H emailed me yesterday regarding taxes. Of course I had wished it was to acknowledge our anniversary, but how do you positively acknowledge that when this past year and half has been so negative?

First email I sent back to him was one liner thanks for the info on taxes. 2nd email, thanks for this thanks for that I will be in town next week and would like to get together and talk. Then I CRACKED...I typed, "I don't know if it's appropriate or not to mention our anniversary today, but it's in my thoughts as you are." Usually I would have had an email back by now, but nothing.

This BLOWS ME knowing both of us are in a MLC and he doesn't. Me being the chaser now. I committed FI (financial infidelity) 2 times. My cry for help. Trying to get H to pay attention to me to no avail. WOW...here comes my whining and sniveling feeling sorry myself.

I need to get out of my current physical situation and start making things happen for me!

JTB,
HA! I didn't realize I was having a MLC till I left the mediator's office after hashing out the settlement, went to the bookstore to pick up a book on how to emotionally handle a divorce where next to that book was Divorce Remedy.....friends have told me I've been in a MLC for the last 7 years, but they didn't tell me that till, NOW and no, I would not have believed them! 7 years was when H's started as well.....very very interesting...

BTW, I picked up the DR book and never touched the other book.


Edited by Jasmine (04/16/10 07:08 PM)

Journaling Again:

Holy Crap! This HURTS! The realization that H is in a MLC and him not ever wanting me back. Knowing, reflecting, reading and experiencing, I *thought* I was a guarantee back into H's life. The tables are turned and I am looking at this M differently and HOLY MOLY, have I got some REAL work to do. Gawd, I am sick to my stomach! Deep down, I felt I was in control of this....not so much any more...


Edited by Jasmine (04/16/10 08:02 PM)

Originally Posted By: trapt

That is a curious statement. The guaranteed part. I think it happens a lot around here. I'm not trying give you a hard time or anything, I actually think you're doing pretty well. This is a positive realization.


Nothing personal taken. I am just coming out of the fog so bare with me a bit. I go back and forth. I believe all of us in this this sit, no matter what category you are in, all thought our marriages were a guarantee. This is the taking one for granted in a M. The lack of communication we all experienced.

WOW. Just WOW! Lot's of realizations.

Quote:
I know this has to be very difficult, as painful as it seems, IMO this is a good thing. You'll get through this. Focus on what you can control and do your best to keep you mind in a positive place. There is no sense in dwelling on, or replaying the past.


This just SUCKS! I am truly sorry for those of you on the LBS side. I had no effing idea. I am TRYING to stop the replay but I am waking up in the middle of the night KNOWING I am not to blame. WE BOTH are to blame.

Quote:
There is no sense in letting your mind spin about all this at this point either. What's done is done. Focus on moving forward now.


Excellent point. Easier said than done right now. I know I will get through this but what a blow.

I truly appreciate you pointing out certain things.

Originally Posted By: Celestial X 5

I`m sorry you`re hurting and I do feel your pain. What sometimes happens when one S is in MLC, the LBS has no choice but to try and pick up the pieces and carry on. By the time the MLC`er comes out of the fog, it`s sometimes too late for the M to be saved.


Thank you for your kind words. I just feel so overwhelmed. Selfish or not, I was the one in therapy for over half our married lives. I thought it was always MY FAULT. I did my best to get us on the right track ALWAYS THINKING IT WAS MY FAULT due to my past issues. The turning point for me to run the first time HE was in HIS MLC!

Quote:
Too much damage has been done, too much time has passed. LBS learn to live without the drama and heartache, and actually get a second chance to enjoy life once more, and most do.


I understand this all too well now. Seriously, major conflicting emotions here. H was going through his MLC while I was. H put me through so much bs aka drama while he started his MLC, the reason for me to run.

Quote:
My H is in MLC. I`m positive he feels like you do, that he`s sure he has control over our sitch. That if he wanted to, he could have me drop everything to be with him. I worked far too hard to get where I am today to give it up.


DO NOT LOSE THIS! You have worked way to hard to get to where you are. I think us WAS have had a sense of entitlement. Marriage will always be there so let's try the other side of the fence.

Quote:
I`m not trying to give you a hard time either. I do hope you can connect with your H. You have lived and learned the hard way, you deserve true hapiness.


Thank you. As I hope for happiness for you.

I am WORN DOWN! How much MORE psycho therapy do I have to do to truly become a happy person? How much MORE must I endure to have a happy committed two sided MARRIAGE?

Thank you Celestial. Not a fun road that's for sure.

Journaling:
H emailed me back after a half a day goes by to tell me "any day is fine to meet up, just let him know date and time because he wants to make plans." hhhhmmmmpffff...I have to schedule time with him now? I NEVER had to do that. He would drop everything at a moments notice. I LIKE SEEING THIS IN HIM!!!

Still very angry towards him for all the nasty abusive things he said to me in the past. Really hard to think about R while all this is replaying. Time to really sit down and look at the first post to me in what do I want in a marriage, a husband, a relationship.

H ALWAYS had a life with me. He got to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. I was the caretaker, the nurturer. I made everything run smooth for him so he didn't have to lift a finger. If he wanted to go for a mtn bike ride or road ride, I always made sure he had clean bike clothes and he could find them. He would come home, put them and leave me to go "play" with his friends. What's changed now? He has to get all these things in order for himself now? No one to take care of him and make sure everything was done for him? WOW...that hurts.

DMoney,
I have come to terms that my H is in a MLC too. He just isn't the LBS. So I have conflict of how to treat him. As a LBS I like seeing him taking more of a stand with me and that I have to schedule time with him. As me being just a W, it hurts me that I allowed him to use me as a door mat.

Thanks all. I have been reading some of HF's posts. I am trying as hard as I can to get through this. Both of us going through a MLC at the same time. The hurt feelings the hurt words the hurt attitudes. Replay as to why I left keep coming up.

Journaling:
H emailed back and asked "what are your intentions on seeing me next week?" OUCH!

Personally I was hoping he and I could talk about DR and Retrouville. I keep replaying HIS ABUSIVE attitude towards me the last 7 years of marriage though. Him never acknowledging that SOMETHING was wrong in the marriage and not taking me serious when I expressed us going to MC. Wondering if it's just time for us to call it good and both just go our separate ways.

Email first thing this morning from Mediator to call back ASAP. Call her back and we were going through the typing up of the judgment. I will have the judgment by Tuesday to review and then I have to find my own attorney to go over it.

Not going to be a good week when the attorney starts off your Sunday like this.

UPATE:

I was in a mentally and verbally abusive relationship! IT STOPPED. I am a better person now. I didn't deserve it. NO ONE DOES! I did NOT have an affair till 3 months before I physically left my marriage. I mentally left my marriage 10 years ago. He deserves someone who will unconditionally love him and so do I.

Divorced June 22nd. 1 year after filing!

I TRULY wish EVERYONE the best and for happiness.

 

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