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Our Community / Re: IIWII: 80/20 Is Enough
« Last post by Lioness on Today at 12:53:29 AM »
I like this version much much better! Straight and clear! Good for you T!
Our Community / Re: IIWII: 80/20 Is Enough
« Last post by Treasur on Today at 12:23:06 AM »
OK, on further reflection...v2 (although I want to shorten/simplify before I send it later today). For some reason, I'm just done with playing fair. What's he going to do...Leave me? Cry? Shout? Blow up my life?  :)

And I know I'm about due for a new thread but I'd like to finish watch gate first if poss!

Dear Mr T

Thank you for sharing your feelings. I’m sorry you feel that way. It is odd how the watch has become such an emotional trigger for different people now.

If I understand your overall position, you continue to want a divorce after 20 years free from any obligation to explain, be honest about your actions so you can apologise or have the discomfort of talking about my feelings. You would like me to help you omit the facts about the watch because you don't want to feel embarrassed in front of your solicitor who does not know the truth. You want to move on and feel that you still have the right to ask me to empathise with your feelings and prioritise them. I can see that this is an emotional issue for you, even if I’m not clear on to/for who or what you feel penitent about, only that it doesn't feel like it's about me.

My overall position is that the chain of events regarding the watch were a function of actions and lies by other people. I had no control over them and they are not my responsibility; I was simply a collateral victim because it is my watch. The same is largely true for the chain of events since October 2015; I was simply a collateral victim because you are my husband. I have been manipulated by months of lies and deprived of my right to a voice in both situations.

I can’t make anyone else tell the truth, but I can refuse any responsibility to cover up for their actions. I feel I was very restrained in my response to the watch situation and events creating it. I think my reference to a ‘third party’ was a neutral way of presenting the facts. I appreciate your prompt actions in retrieving the watch. My emotional issue right now is that the watch feels like a microcosm of the wider mess. I am tired of lies and confusion. I am tired of watching you act as if only your needs matter. I am tired of being silenced about my own life and marriage, and the lack of mutual empathy and respect.

So, we have an impasse. You want your divorce and the right to handle it as you see fit and to hide the facts. I am forced to accept your right to divorce me in the way you have but don’t want to hide the facts.

I don’t know what to do about that other than to take a short ‘time out’ to both think about the issue, and return to it on Monday by email.

Our Community / Re: Newbie Document: Help with Ideas
« Last post by GonerinGhana on Today at 12:17:14 AM »
I agree about the timelessness aspect. I found going through some of the links in the original post was like a "refresher" course of sorts. So it isn't just useful for newbies. For example, the one that talks about the hills and valleys that the MLCer is passing through. It's a good reminder of how cycling works and how even though I can envision a better future for the both of us and have expressed that to him, he is not able to see that right now.
Our Community / Re: Newbie Document: Help with Ideas
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 12:16:05 AM »
I answered your questions regarding purple/status by PM. They pertain to issues/ways of atributing purple icons fromwhen I was a mod and are not for public discussion. If you want, you can then share light on them.
Our Community / Re: You can't make this stuff up ... Book 3 ... Chapter 2
« Last post by Milly on Today at 12:10:30 AM »
Never, so very pleased for you about the rental. This is just wonderful news. Money, an income coming in to compensate for your H's lack of one. How great!! A bit of good karma coming back to both you and your H. Nice that he cleaned it up so that the young couple loved it!

Regarding you being arrogant, I found your D's comment very interesting. I'm putting myself in your place and just like the others have said, our over sense of duty telling us that we need to sort all our family's problems comes off to our family as us presuming we know better than them what they need. All we wanted to do was to relieve them of their problems, but it didn't, or in any case they aren't grateful for it, they are just annoyed at us butting in. Good of your D to point this out. I'm going to remember this for myself.
Our Community / Re: Newbie Document: Help with Ideas
« Last post by hopeandfaith on Today at 12:05:48 AM »

Basic advice must be simple, direct, include hope and have valuable key info and protection.
Nicely sated—though not a specific item, I am adding this to my list as a personal reminder.

I was going to quote the same thing you did RCR.  I loved what Anjae wrote.  I am still here, 5 years on and having been through 2 BD's and 1 reconciliation.  I find the advice timeless and very useful.  I once heard someone say the same about the AA materials. I also find it has a nice balance between general and specific.  I suppose interpretation very much depends on the reader.   
I struggle to add my 2 cents on what could be added for newbies.  I agree that 'less is more' too.  Hope was so very important to me in the early days and this site gave me that so thank you.
Our Community / Re: One year in, Divorce on the horizon
« Last post by Whyus on Today at 12:04:42 AM »
After work yesterday I drove to a localstore. As I was parking Ws car backed our 2 cars away.... She saw me and waited in her car for me to get out... I stayed put and after 2 minutes she drove off. I didnt feel like it so I justed ignored her. Wonder how that felt W!

S19 came to town last night, hes staying at mine until Sunday. I was out playing pool with K and he joined us for a while. Once we got home he asked me if I have had contact with W lately. I told him that we had a disagreement concerning the Dogs on Saturday which resulted in her blocking me and that we had spoken earlier and she seemed cool again.
He said that she hasnt contacted him in 3 weeks, not even a WhatsApp! He said that she has often told him that once she gets a new car she can visit him. Since she has the car she hasnt even written, he was disapointed at her commitment and lies again but hes more or less done anyway...

K and i cooked whilst S19 tested with much delight my new Guitars... he a great guitarist, better than I am but dont tell him that. After we had eaten S18 and S19 went to S18s room and prepared a Shisha. K and I joined them and we had a good laugh, it was great having both home at the same time.

I popped in to see MIL on Wednesday. She had picked up Ws D papers from BILs last week (W lived there for 10 months but hasnt contacted them since moving out in December!!! BIL and SIL are more than dissapointed) I asked if W had picked her papers up, she said that she was there for a couple of minutes, took the papers and left. She also said "I dont see her anymore and I dont care anymore, im fed up of chasing after her and im not going to. She knows where I am".
I told her that im sorry that it has to end this way and I never wanted it to but she has left me no other choice. She said that she knows that and knows that I had done all that I could to save our M and then I left...
W seems to be going more into ME ME ME mode since having her own flat and new car!! This will end in tears for her and I cant seee OM distracting her for too much longer.
Not my monkeys!!!
Our Community / Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Last post by hopeandfaith on January 18, 2018, 11:39:45 PM »
H text me on Monday morning to let me know the one of his female work mates had finally lost her battle with brain cancer  :'(. I hadn't had a lot to do with her but she'd made a big impact.  The type of lady that you immediately trust and tell your life story to.  She was the flight attendant manager and her husband is a pilot with the company too so they literally know everyone.  Both have always been supportive of H despite his antics and very supportive of me.  It was nice to have people on the inside that knew the real story.

The funeral was today and I decided to go. H couldn't because he is interstate.  Once again, I am sure that everyone knows the juicy stories that H is the subject of and many may have been surprised to see me there but I held my head high and got on with the job of paying my respects.  You could almost say that there there are 2 levels of staff in this airline; the classy pilots and flight attendants and the ones that give the industry a bad name.  The classy ones always intimidate the other ones a fair bit and I have always been claimed by that group, as I was today.  This was nice because...guess who I saw there??  The 'almost ow' who drunk texts with H.  She's the one that also works with ow interstate.  I met her at the end of 2014 when H and I were reconciling and he took me on a trip with him that she was also on.  He told me that she was really supportive of us getting back together but it took me 5 seconds in her orbit to work out that she definitely was not happy I was there.  4 years later and she is still the standby girl.  Gotta admit that it gave me a bit of a jolt to see her there.  Probably gave her just as much of a jolt.  Hopefully she is thinking, "why won't this wifey ever go away"  ;D.

I signed the condolence book from H and I and told him about that when I got home.  He thanked me for doing that.  I find it curious and very nice that H is so willing to be associated with me. He is still speaking to his work wife about coming to the river.  Our next river trip is also planned with the base manager in our state.  News travels very fast in that company so H knows he is making a statement.

After a few days of no contact, H initiated a text chat yesterday which was really long and funny and then another one today that went on for quite a while.  This is one of the things, along with his regular phone calls, that I really missed.  He seems to have had a good week with his fitness and non drinking so it sounds like he is hanging onto this upswing fairly well.  We have tickets to see our favourite comedian tomorrow night so that will likely be another great family night.

It's 43 degrees here today (109 in farenheight) so we're melting a lil bit.  Thinking of my friends on the other side of the globe who are no doubt freezing a lil bit  ::)
Thats so cool cp.
My MIL has been a rock too, she understands me. She has "Tolerated" W since we split because she is her Mam and is afraid to loose her. She still Cooks for me and the Boys sometimes. She has tried talking to W but she just blocks her, MIL is ashamed of her.
Our Community / Re: Newbie Document: Help with Ideas
« Last post by Rollercoasterider on January 18, 2018, 11:26:38 PM »
Thanks so much for all your input. I am making a list of the things to ad or check to see if they are already there and maybe highlight them some more. Some of these may simply come through as links to documents on those topics and some may include a short paragraph…I haven’t got that far yet. I know I said it already, but I want o highlight again that this is something I am thinking of offering as an incentive for subscribing to the blog…so not necessarily for the Newbies Read This thread in our Resources section here—though the starting document is from there. I am doing this now because I want I t for someone who just put in an Ask a Question. She gave little info and I just want to direct her where to go for more and offer some general advice. I do that regularly, but if I have a document, then I don’t need to retype the same basic stuff over and over.

Some comments
This is a general document and the advice in it needs to be generalized for the wide MLC/LBS audience. What works for one person will not work for another, but some things are universal—like detachment and protecting yourself (in various ways).

Divorce is a legal and sometimes religious matter and I don't think that it should be given as advice at all unless you know the person's specific situation.
Advising every new person to divorce as a general piece of advice would be wreckless in the extreme; you need to know more about the individual situation for that sort of specific advice. And this is a site about trying to prevent divorces, so it does go against the goal—though I do get that it can be a protection that can aid in reconciliation in some cases.
There may be good reasons to being temporarily divorced, but may be just as many good reasons to remain legally married—health insurance being just one.
It’s also important to respect someone’s beliefs regarding marriage/divorce. Covenant Keepers are about remaining legally married through their Stand and to suggest they divorce for protection will be considered an insult to some—as well as confusing coming from a site for Standers.
Let’s not use divorce as a Standing Tactic—doing it to save the marriage because you will protect the assets from the wreckless MLCer. Use it as a protection—sometimes you need to do it to protect yourself and your kids.

31 is divorced. So is Thunder that, despite being reconciled since she is no longer married, is not allowed a pink icon. Everyone is desperate for reconciliations, they happen, but because MLC caused a divorce, the two people whose relationship is saved aren't don't get recognision.
WHAT? I have never said anything of the sort. Why would it make a difference—reconciled is reconciled (dark purple) and reconciling is reconciling (light purple).
Maybe we need to put the save the marriage mantra aside and go for the save the relationship? Because, without a saved relationship there is no marriage, regardless the couple being married or divorce.
I guess that this is the same things for me—to me a saved marriage is a stable one which means the relationship has been saved. The legality of it is not what I am considering. Think back to the questions I give for newbies to see if this place is right for them: Are or were you in a committed marital style relationship? Marital is an adjective that modifies the word relationship, not a legal term. This is not to say that legal marriage is not of interest—one of my goals is to reduce the rate of divorce, but it is for a couple to decide whether they want or need to make their marital relationship legal and technically a couple can be married without the marriage being legal—I knew someone who was widowed who married a widower and they just had their priest marry them so it was recognized by the church—this is not uncommon for some older couples with (or without) adult children.

Basic advice must be simple, direct, include hope and have valuable key info and protection.
Nicely sated—though not a specific item, I am adding this to my list as a personal reminder.
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