Author Topic: MLC Monster A view from the other side - Various Fog stories  (Read 66469 times)

Offline Sunny

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MLC Monster Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #140 on: November 17, 2013, 02:51:23 AM »
an unshowered selfish pig who drinks far too much.


Sounds like H!!  ;D ;D

Offline Disneyme

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #141 on: November 17, 2013, 04:58:13 AM »
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but reading the stages of MLC over and over on different websites I had a question that I guess only can be answered by the recovered MLC'er.

The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it? Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do? Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.

I wonder if the counseling with him and the kids may make it worse since he feels validated by saying how I made him feel and that the problems the kids have are because I don't help them transition into his new world. They usually don't hold the MLC're accountable for his actions. They force the kids into accepting the situation.

Offline limitless

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #142 on: November 17, 2013, 06:33:53 AM »
DM,

Quote
The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it?
I think it can be triggered by an event.  But, not necessarily.

The MLCer will remain in Replay until challenged either externally or internally.  (Hitting rock bottom).  As no one truly knows another person's rock bottom - I don't think you can really see it from the outside.  (What YOU or I would see as "rock bottom" may not be so for the MLCer.  It's amazing how low they can go...and not hit rock bottom).

Quote
Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do?
  I have read a few examples of this - but I think this is rare.  MLC "recovery" isn't like turning on or off a faucet.  Conway describes it like waves coming to shore from far off at sea.  Many times it is a gradual process - with attempts to return to Replay activity - to avoid hitting rock bottom and having to face one's shadow.

Quote
Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.
Throughout the crisis - I believe things are said or things happen that may make the MLCer "think."  But, during Replay, the MLCer will run and avoid.  The "moments of clarity" occur when the MLCer is alone with his thoughts (even if he is in a crowded room - he still can be alone with his thoughts, by the way) - and he will start to think.  But, thinking about it is too painful and he is in denial - so he goes back to Replay to "fix" that feeling and make it go away.

As Old Pilot has stated, many times, the MLCer has to go down many, many cheese-less tunnels before facing his issues.

I think we all are curious how "recovery" comes about.  If you read actual MLCers' accounts of leaving the tunnel - even they can't describe it very well or very clearly.

As for counseling "making it worse."  It gets worse (before it gets better) regardless.  If he goes to counseling to justify his actions (or not) it is not within your control.   Let it be.



M -56,  ExH - 63 (56 at BD)
M - 33 years (do the last 3 years count?)
D - 26, D -22, S - 22 (all at home w/me)
BD 5/29/2010, Ran away from home - 8/15/2010,
Found out about affair - 2/11
H asks for divorce - 8/11
H filed for divorce 10/11
Announced "new" girlfriend 12/12 (3rd OW)
Divorce final 06/13 (I decided to finish it)
Dumped OW 9/15 (After 4 years)
Seeing OW#1 again
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Offline Trustandlove

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #143 on: November 18, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
I think Limitless has it right.  I can say from my own experience, many, many years ago when I got my life into a huge mess aged much younger than an MLCer, that coming out of it appeared to others around me as sudden, but that in reality it was several years.

I pushed on and on with the route I had taken, I'm don't remember anymore the exact things that happened, but at one point things that people had been saying for years started to sink in.  I still didn't think that I could change anything; I was totally convinced that I had made my choices and that was that.  Then the big thing -- that I didn't want to hear "I told you so".   I was embarrassed about my life, but brazened it out.  Then finally the thought that "I'll face the I-told-you-so; they were right".   From then it was quick, and that is what people on the outside saw. 

Oh, and btw, by then no one said "I told you so". 

Maybe it was the reverse of what our MLCers experience going into the tunnel; we don't see the turmoil before BD; others didn't see the turmoil before I came out.  And even then it wasn't all roses right away; I had quite a bit of fixing to do, but then I just got on with it. 

The dangerous thing of course is to look at the timeline for me back then (6 years) and think that because that is what I did, that my MLCer will do the same, or should do, or whatever.  Each journey is individual. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:57:26 PM by Trustandlove »

Offline Searching4Answers

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2013, 07:54:47 AM »
I think Limitless has it right.  I can say from my own experience, many, many years ago when I got my life into a huge mess aged much younger than an MLCer, that coming out of it appeared to others around me as sudden, but that in reality it was several years.

I pushed on and on with the route I had taken, I'm don't remember anymore the exact things that happened, but at one point things that people had been saying for years started to sink in.  I still didn't think that I could change anything; I was totally convinced that I had made my choices and that was that.  Then the big thing -- that I didn't want to hear "I told you so".   I was embarrassed about my life, but brazened it out.  Then finally the thought that "I'll face the I-told-you-so; they were right".   From then it was quick, and that is what people on the outside saw. 

Oh, and btw, by then no one said "I told you so". 

Maybe it was the reverse of what our MLCers experience going into the tunnel; we don't see the turmoil before BD; others didn't see the turmoil before I came out.  And even then it wasn't all roses right away; I had quite a bit of fixing to do, but then I just got on with it. 

The dangerous thing of course is to look at the timeline for me back then (6 years) and think that because that is what I did, that my MLCer will do the same, or should do, or whatever.  Each journey is individual. 


Thanks Trustandlove  ;) This is the impression that I get from my H and it makes a lot of sense to me. It just so frustrating to not be able make our MLCer 'get it'.
We all do damage. Character is determined by how we repair it.


BD - December 2012
OW1 confirmed - December 2012 on-and-off for 34 months and counting (still refers to her as just a 'friend')
Wants to live like roommates - November 2013
I moved out - April 2015
H is still checking the anchor

Offline riverbirch

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2013, 04:22:13 PM »
For me it was almost losing my husband for good. He ended up having a revenge A and started acting awful towards me. He was deeply depressed and didn't care about anything anymore. I was kicked out of my home, landed myself in jail a couple time(charges dropped) and while I was living out of my home I started reading about affairs. It showed me what and why I was doing what I did.

Almost losing everything is what snapped me out of it real quick. He had even filed for divorce and I had the papers ready to sign but I couldn't do it. I texted him and told him I didn't want a divorce on the day, I was suppose to sign them. I no longer wanted anything to do with the other man and vowed to straighten out.
Me 51
H (whatever he is) 53
D for financial reasons March 2012
Started seeing massive change over the summer 2012
Left end of October 2012
Started coming home thanksgiving 2013
Home now. March 2014
Believe ow is gone
Probably going through this for years
OW discovered Oct.23,2013,old GF from before we met at the age of 16!
Left again Oct. 20 2015
Came back two weeks later
Still here 01/17 not done yet

Offline Braincell77

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #146 on: December 22, 2013, 04:09:16 AM »
O
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but reading the stages of MLC over and over on different websites I had a question that I guess only can be answered by the recovered MLC'er.

The "awakening" or "turning point" during replay that pushes them out of the tunnel, has anyone ever said something triggered it? Do they one day just wake up and think what did I do? Or did someone say something to make them think, did they have something terrible happen like sickness or death of someone, was it the OW/OM saying something? I'm just curious how it comes forth, since it may never happen also.

I wonder if the counseling with him and the kids may make it worse since he feels validated by saying how I made him feel and that the problems the kids have are because I don't help them transition into his new world. They usually don't hold the MLC're accountable for his actions. They force the kids into accepting the situation.

My cousin is very high up in the chain for the biggest UK mental health charity. We have spoken and he believes that a big shock such as death or illness in the family or maybe getting in a dangerous situation during replay can cause the brain to 'ping back like an elastic band'.  There is then the guilt and realisation to deal with so it will not always be apparent for all to see.

In regards to the mortality comments on another post, my W is 34 and has become convinced she will be dead by 52 as her mum died at that age. She has verbalised this at least 5 times in the last 5 months. So rather than trying practical steps to prelong her life she is now smoking more,drinking more,smoking weed and mixing all this with AD,s. Am I missing something?????
My god this ride is bumpy but imagine the relief when we get off!

Offline OldPilot

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2017, 05:14:52 AM »
Here is a series of threads starting here  of  denjef31 who also navigated through the fog.

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412.0

Offline OldPilot

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Re: A view from the other side - Various Fog stories
« Reply #148 on: July 29, 2017, 01:05:13 AM »

An insight into the thinking of a MLCer..interesting read with a twist at the end


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939#Post1968939

I don’t know where to begin. Jan 10th, 2009…I walked away. Packed it all up, H came home and I told him I was leaving him. He had no idea things were wrong even though the last three – five years I told him things were not right. I told him November 2008 that I was looking for my own apartment and hoped to be out on my own January 2009. He didn’t believe me or hear me or wanted to comprehend. My brother ended up passing away December 2008 so much more added stress which took me out of state to tend to funeral and what not.

The 3-5 years prior I had gained a lot of weight. Our marriage was based on common interests and activity. The verbal abuse of my weight gain and the nagging became tiresome. I had even resorted to triathlons to drop the weight to no avail. I became the pre-WAW, withdrew, started putting money away so I could leave. During this time I did not know at the time, but I was having an EA which then turned into a PA in Sept 08, which I am currently in and starting to come out of the fog.

In the past year I have filed for D in June, lived with OM and H. Back and forth four or five times. The last time I moved back to H, he was doing the groveling, begging and telling me he loved me, all common things NOT to do. I was back in the “night mare” and decided it was time to get out of all this. Last Friday was mediation day to “settle”. SHIAT, too easy. D is just too damned EASY. I feel I have put 110% into marriage with a self centered person. I TOLD him things were not going well. I TOLD him we needed counseling. I TOLD him if he didn’t pay attention to his wife, she would be gone. I TOLD him if he told me one more time if “you don’t like it you can leave” that I WOULD leave. I NEVER nagged, that I know of. Maybe I should have. He told me he has changed. He wanted to show me. He wanted me to give it an honest shot. I just couldn’t with all the “whining and groveling” he was doing. I’ve been in IC most of my married life trying to figure out what my problem was. Why wasn’t my marriage working out? My fault? Why do I truly feel that I haven’t done everything I could possibly do to save my marriage? Even though I DID the work? I went to the IC. I read the self help books on trying to save the marriage. WTF??

At the time I made my decision to leave my H, I had gotten WLS (weight loss surgery). OM was telling my how wonderful I was and beautiful I was w/o the surgery. Even tried to talk me out of the surgery. GEE who am I going to turn to? The H that has conditions of weight on the marriage or the OM that is full of compliments no matter what?

What brought me here? I was at a bookstore looking for a book on how to deal with the emotion of a divorce. What was next to that book I wanted? DR! I picked up DR and found the section on a WAW and just started BAWLING my eyes out and that has brought me to this forum.

There is NO OTHER person that I will find that will have the same common interests, activities, views on life, etc.

As it stands, I am living in another state with OM. I had no where else to go because H shut all credit cards off and closed checking accounts and wasn’t giving me spousal support. He wouldn’t give me any money till we saw the mediator and it was all in writing. (My option was to live with H or to opt out and go live with OM for I have NO family or friends in the area) If I ordered spousal support through the court that put us into litigation instead of mediation. All that’s left for D to be final is to get a listing of the assets, VIN #’s on vehicles, check to the mediator and our judgment will be typed up for us to sign and for it to go to the judge.

How do I work through all this? How do I get my H to give me one more shot? I will be calling for phone coaching.
_________________________
Me: WAW/MLC 41
H: 42
M: 16 yr T: 20
Me: EA/PA started Sept 2008
D: Anytime, just need to sign papers
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939&page=1



I first posted this about a week ago in Newcommers. First Post (I don't know the best place to put this and don't want any confusion.) Since then I have been reading everything I can and processing.

For those of you that know about "why they run" can you provide more sources of information? I am desperately trying to figure out and as fast as I can, how and why and how to come out of being the runner AGAIN. I DO want to work on this with my H, but I don't want to run again.

The "fog" has been lifting from my current status since I have FINALLY been able to have separate time way from both H and OM. I do know I need to leave OM and I will. I am just trying to gather the funds to get me back to CA and in a month to month apt, close to H.

H doesn't know I want to get back together but the funny thing is, I believe our mediator does. She is dragging her feet on typing up the judgment, then again she did tell us she was taking a vacation.

I had a crappy IC. She was helping me to do the "push" of getting out of the marriage.

How do I get my H to do the 180 and go dark? I need him to stop being so passive. I need him to read DR but I don't know how to go about it.

Not sure what other information I can give.


Edited by Jasmine (03/28/10 05:27 PM)


Originally Posted By: Lostforwords
Jasmine,

The solution for any problems starts with the first step.

What is you first step?


My first step is to contact H and let him know I want to work on things. The reason not to? What you and Kimmie Lee have pointed out, the conditions of the marriage on the weight loss. Still trying to evaluate my R with H. As you said, unhealthy.


Quote:
Therapists are a fickle bunch. Some agree with the patient completely such as the first few that my wife saw. The agreed with any she said and looked for problems outside the patient instead of addressing the patients problems.


I whole heartedly agree. Red flags every where on this one.

Quote:
Welcome to MLC board....we do things different here, but I think you might like it:)


Thank you! I find you all to throw 2x4's and I need them.

Snodderly, Thank you.

I am 41. M passed away when I was 5. F remarried when I was 9. F passed away 5 years ago and I was estranged from him. Yep, daddy issues. Lost immediate family connections when F remarried. In the last few years, searched them all out and have reconnected with them.

"Ran away" from an old life (dad and step family) when I was 21. Met H. Ran away from him 20 years later.

Daddy Issues
Abandonment Issues
Self Esteem Issues

I know I cannot expect H to do all the work but he needs to do some of it. I've been in IC for over half of our M lives. I jumped up and down screaming we both needed to work on us prior to running from the M.

I really want to believe he is doing 180. No texts, emails or phone calls in a week from him. I have not contacted him either.

I am really working on myself.



Thank you Trent.

I whole heartedly agree on ending the A. I WILL do this first.


Originally Posted By: TrentC


I want to make sure I understand the situation.

* You filed for divorce and are living with OM.
* Your husband wants you to come back, but is displaying all of the behaviors that we tell people not to do. (Crying, begging, etc.)
* You want to work on reconciliation.
* You have been doing IC but your husband has not. There has been no MC.


YES. MC came "a little too late" a year ago this May.

I don't think H would do Retrouvaille. I know he would do a 1-1 with Michelle. I am planning on a DB phone coaching sometime this week for just myself.

Question: Should I move back to our rental house with H? It's a three bedroom. Will stop all D proceedings which would help both of us financially. I just don't want to do this and then RUN again and put us both threw another slew of emotional rollercoaster rides. I guess that's the chance I take!


Edited by Jasmine (03/28/10 06:34 PM)
_________________________
Me: WAW/MLC 41
H: 42
M: 16 yr T: 20
Me: EA/PA started Sept 2008
D: Anytime, just need to sign papers
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1968939&page=1


Lostforwords:
Thank you for your kind post and addressing some very important issues. No, I have NEVER stood on my own. My insecurities thinking I "could never make it on my own" have always taken over.

The thing about the OM I didn't know/think he was the OM once I left the M. Now that I am coming out of the fog, I do and I am REALLY SEEING THE LIGHT.

JTB:
THANK YOU for taking the time to respond.

I really HOPE and really WANT LBS to want to change. I think he knows he SHOULD change and do the work, but I cannot be sure for I am trying to go dark on my end and work through my crap. Whether or not we get back together, I really hope that we have BOTH worked through our issues and can have healthy, happy two sided relationships.

1st: Thank you. I am not saying I have a strong backbone and can handle the spousal projections but I invite it for I hope I can help those that I trying to find answers as you all will be able to help me.

2nd: This has been my stalling tactic. I have been searching and analyzing my goals.


Edited by Jasmine (03/31/10 12:47 AM)
Crushed:

Thank you for your honesty. If you still have what you typed up to slam me, feel free. I will do my best to be as informative and helpful as best I can. This is very vivid and fresh in my mind. You can even pm me.

My best advice is what DB and DR is telling you, don't beg and plead. The sooner you can go dark the better. To show that you and the kids have moved on, the better.

journaling:
I truly believe my sit is different than the stereotype. I cannot recall when but at some point, several years ago, I believe my H started his MLC and his OW was his road bike and mountain bike. He decided to better himself and not involve me. As he was getting fitter and fitter I was just existing. I would still surf, kitesurf, mtn bike, hike and camp with him, just not at the TOP level as him. He wasn't happy that I was doing things to the best that he thought I should have been doing. He wasn't happy that I was just out there doing things.

As I went along on him being my athletic coach, I would get hurt. I broke the glassed in fin off in the back of my upper thigh. Trip to emergency room

I crashed HARD mountain biking and had a nice chunk taken out of my calf. Again, a trip to the emergency room.

Kite Surfing....pretty dangerous sport at the time...I was scared and all I heard was, "more time on the water the better you get."

Road Biking...I didn't feel safe out on the road. I didn't have the skills.

Vicious cycle. For me to the be the ULTIMATE wife, I needed to be his ULTIMATE buddy. I did these sports, some because I LOVED the sport, some because I LOVE him. When I got injured, It took me a while to regain my confidence and I was turning to food to "comfort" me.

Through out the years, I just ate and ate to keep myself not being able to participate. Then, I had my ass ridden because I couldn't participate and now I needed to wear a heart rate monitor and we would download my workouts weekly and he would evaluate me. I tried my best to participate and couldn't. The last 3 years I had heard him utter the ugly words, "if you don't like it, you can leave." UGH...Bu bye....

I helped build OUR business with sacrifices of no car and riding the bus to work our first couple of years together. I even agreed to move into an apartment above his parents house to save money to get our own place. We were married for 16 years and lived there for 13. The money we "supposedly" were to save went to traveling and expensive toys. I am taking responsibility for not standing up and saying this isn't right but he was bringing in most of the money and I felt that was how it was.

I am taking responsibility for so much in this. I wish he would do the same. He couldn't explain to me why he would say "if you don't like it you can leave" and then I finally did. His explanation for the fitness stuff is that he was more concerned about my health more than anything and that he wanted me to enjoy these sports as much as him and that meant being at his level.

OP, Mach, and Cat,
Thank you for your posts, the kind words and the links to archives. I've been doing my damnedest to read everything and absorb everything as fast as possible.

I am a tad confused on reading some other people's stories. They want their WAS to come back and work on things and to live under the same roof. Isn't that what I should do? I know I am trying to find myself but I also want to save my my marriage. Shouldn't I be doing this work under the "marital home"?

Maybe some answers to what was asked of me above and definitely some more journaling:

I am angry about the fact as to where did I go as a person? What happened to the independent, strong willed, ambitious woman that I was when I met my H?

H had a goal and life and already knew what he wanted for himself career wise. The agreement was build his business first. Get him successful and then to work on my career. Throughout the years, we both became comfortable in the daily grind and we traveled a lot, where I should have been going to school. He started to become more and more successful and I felt I was being left behind. He brought home the big checks, where my paychecks were hobby money. H became more successful and needed me to be the bookkeeper not to mention it was tough for me to hang onto my personal clients while we traveled so much.

H became the sole money maker and THAT’S where I surrendered myself esteem and my self worth. Money is control and I allowed myself to be controlled by the money that was coming into the marriage. A spiraling depression set in where I was also suicidal. That is also where I believe he felt H had to take control of me as well and I THANK him for that.

While in the EA with the OM, he was boosting my ego and my self esteem. My driving force to pick up and leave. Imagine that. At that point again, I was spiraling into another depression and was looking to check into a depression facility. Depression facility or leave the situation that was bringing me to this breaking point?

What is killing me the most right now is being dark when I feel I shouldn’t be. I have never told H the why’s to my behavior. I just recall him so upset and distraught when I left the last time. All he wanted to do was talk. I would hear NONE of it. Some words that he uttered to me as I was leaving that probably had the shift in the fog were, “You need to stay and work on this. You will do the same thing in another relationship and you will keep doing it till you work this out.” WTF did that come? Was he really trying to work on himself?

H text me yesterday and asked If I have heard from the mediator. I had not. Last we left it, she was to type up the judgment. I am to have an attorney look it over and then we sign the papers. His text was, “I want to get this over with as soon as possible.”

Facebook incident Monday: I had H blocked from my wall because I was sharing pics of where I was currently and what I was doing. No pics of the OM but I didn’t want to hurt H any more than I have. I ended up cleaning up my FB, weeding out everyone but family and a couple of good hearted friends. I had a lot of the bad seeds blocked and thought why block just unfriend. I ended up unblocking H. That same day, he is never on FB, he changed his marital status to single and looking for women. That just threw the dagger into my heart. STILL I am NC with him and it effing hurts!

There is no handbook on marriage and the trials and tribulations. I married for life I don’t know who this person is that is my skin. Where did this person come from? The whirlwind has just been so messed up. I never looked at other men and never wanted to be with any one else. MESSED UP.

Currently, I have a NASTY inner ear infection and I have an appointment with an IC next week. The inner battle I am having is taking its toll. I am still waiting on some $$ that I had as a deposit on my last rental to move back to CA. I need first and last month’s rent and some small move in costs.

I SO want to break NC and call H for a date or just to talk to him and to talk this out.

Quote:

I am still a bit confused as to who is having the crisis here, you or your H. Or both.


As I am doing the work I am thinking we BOTH are having our MLC!

Quote:
Personally, I think that your first step is to work on yourself and worry about the M later. If you D and reconcile or if you don’t D and reconcile, you have still reconciled and honestly, that can’t happen until you have both made some changes.


I am starting to see this to being the best option as well

Quote:
Why are you dark?


I am trying to do the work and not drag him into my drama till I have a clear head of what I KNOW what I want. I don't want to play the emotional games of the back and forth and back and forth. I want to sit down with him and honestly be able to communicate with him my wants and needs. He does need to know and I will relay this to him.

Quote:
Jasmine, one other thing, and not trying to be mean---why the sudden change of heart? Seriously...


Nothing mean taken...an honest question...this hasn't come on suddenly...I wanted to be a cake eater. One fulfills lifelong goals and the other was just helping me to feel better IN THE MOMENT. The honeymoon phase with the OM has long since past and I was able to see his true colors unfortunately at the cost of my M and my H's feelings. BTW, the OM was having a MLC too.

Thank you very much Cat and OldPIlot. Thanks to all of you for giving me the condensed version of goal setting and listing the questions to ask myself. I was feeling a bit overwhelmed with the information in the book.


Edited by Jasmine (04/02/10 03:17 PM)


journaling and info:

Quote:
“coming out of the fog”


There have been so many "WTF" moments all I can do is laugh till I cry. My lack of judgement and self esteem is more apparent with OM than it was when I left H!

Rico Suave, aka OM, swept me off my feet. Remember, he too is in a MLC. I am 16 years younger. I look just like his STBX. I've done the same FI (financial infidelities) in my marriage that she has done in theirs. He promised me the world. I was the most beautiful person he has ever met/seen. His profession is my "dream" and that's what we had in common. Well, I don't like his profession, it's not what I thought, nor do I like how he conducts his business. He's an opportunist and has co-dependency issues. Great combination he and I!

My attraction to men is the "Alpha Dog" so to speak. Well, the dominating controlling personality is bull$h!te. I believe when Mr Suave was pursuing me he didn't really see the "real me". The strong minded, independent person (now that I am coming out of the fog) and not the little push over that he "thought" I was.

I got myself into a situation that is not good. He knew I was financially strapped and he "will take care of everything". HA, he has no money. He took care of everything up to a certain point now he's asking me for money. Because of the finances, I am living in his vacation home till I get the $$$ to get the hell out of here and this situation!

Please be careful on cutting your WAS off on finances. We get into a state of mind where our backs are against the wall and will take any sort of help to get out. OM secluded me. I have no cell service where I live, I have to drive 15 mins to get service, there is a land line that I do use and lots of people know where and who I am with. When I would get into my car and leave to make phone calls the "controlling monster" would take a ride into town with me, so no phone calls.

Right now, he helped move me out and decided to put all my stuff into storage for me with his own lock and key. He said he only had one key.

Me getting away from OM is more than just, "I am done with you, we are breaking up." I need help doing this. I have to move two cars out of state, get bolt cutters to cut the lock on storage and pack up a U-haul. I have mentally left him, haven't been having any P contact in over a month plus he is back and forth in two states for work wise. AGAIN, a runner. AGAIN, I am trying to face my fears, get a backbone, not be a runner with OM either.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I consider him a great friend, even after all of the above. No matter the bashing on this that I am sure is due to come my way, this is MY phase and MY steps of getting out of MY fog. I KNOW deep down it's a "sick" friendship. It's the physical breakaway that is going to cure me of this thought process.

Originally Posted By: cat04

Even if you are not running from him, are you running TO your H?


I AM doing the work first to get back to my H. Right now, I am afraid H will just shine it off as ANOTHER emotional roller coaster ride. I need to show him first by physically leaving OM and I need to tell him by continuing to do the work on myself and prove it to him with what I speak. I have ran from H 5 times and OM 4. Just packed it all up and left. I am the master of running which is quite shameful in itself.

I am stalling big time on my contacts with the mediator and I am thankful that she is the type, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. H could have called her office himself and asked what he needed to know but he didn't. He asked me to. I did, left a message with her and she never got back to me. That's how she is. I know it, but H doesn't.

You are in no way asking too many questions. Your questions really make me look deep at myself and honestly help me to gain my strength and momentum.


Edited by Jasmine (04/03/10 09:50 PM)


How has this been different from the way you left your Marriage ?
I ran from H 5 times and OM 4 times. This time I actually am preparing myself for communication with OM.

The way you decided to leave your Marriage ?

communication

Do you feel that this was a choice that you made?

A conscious choice to end your marriage ?

Or was this a burning desire to act on what you felt was missing in your life, and that you felt your spouse was not giving to you?

Those questions run into one another. It was a choice I made, SEVERAL years ago to leave my marriage. I had told my H things were not working and that we needed some help. He didn't hear it or wanted to. I tried to express to my H that I wanted a career and wanted to go back to school but travels wouldn't allow it. So, the next step, put up the walls of not working on the marriage, to just exist, and start to get things rolling on my end on what I needed done. I needed to put away money for my move. I needed to finish up business obligations. At this point in my life, OM was a friend. My EA started in 2007.

During this point, we are living in a 2 bedroom apartment above my IL. My H's job sites were close to home so I became a prisoner. EVERYONE knew where I was or what I was doing and would report back to H not on purpose just general conversation. IL, the construction crew, the neighbors, etc. I needed something for myself. It was MY turn to pursue my career, my schooling, my interests but I had surrendered so much control to H that by then it was too late. I became insecure and mousy. H was used to making all the decisions and when I finally made a decision it was too late, he already decided for himself what we were doing or what I was doing. Because he was the money maker, I allowed that control.

I have had oppurtunity to speak to several MLCers that have come through the tunnel, and all of their stories, while being different, still have the same aspects to them.....

That they knew what they were doing was wrong , but that they could not change the path they were on.

That this destruction HAD to happen for them to see that what they were missing did not come from the outside. And to look inside of themselves was NOT an option until what they felt was causing their unhappiness was removed from their lives.

I did not know that what I was doing was wrong till the day I left. By then, I was literally psycho woman and no one could talk me out of anything. I had the right brain left brain fighting me. YES, wholeheartedly agree this HAD to happen for me to take a good look at myself. H said the same thing. That this had to happen for him to see what he was doing to me and how selfish he had been behaving. I truly believe he is changing as well.

Jas....YOU are on a good path right now for you....

THANK YOU! I feel good but depression is now starting to get the best of me. I am doing my damnedest to fight it.

And once again, please say if you are overwhelmed.

Not overwhelmed. You ask me deep questions that energize me, give me strength and motivation

Have a great Easter...

Thank you. You too

Trustingfaith,
Thank you! I am so glad your H is coming out of the fog. It's a wake up call of emotional drainage. Lot's of ups and downs. Lot's of "aha moments". Lot's of WTF moments. And because of all of this, I know I have mentally left OM, I run to his arms for hugs and just bawl my eyes out. He thinks it's because of me leaving H and M but it's just because I need someone to just put their arms around me and say I am going to be ok. Right now, I really wish it was my H. But I have to earn those arms that are a state away.


WOW! Lost, what an amazing point you just made to me. Cat, thank you for the extras. You both put so much into perspective.

I am SCARED to live alone. I have NEVER lived alone but I know I need to and I know I WANT to heal myself.

Easter Sunday is a tough day for me, our first "date" was on Easter 20 years ago. I text H: "Hi. I am just thinking of you and dog on this day. Hope you both are well." Yeah, I heard nothing back since and I expected that.

Tomorrow is my first apt with IC. Depression is coming on hard and strong. I am really trying to diffuse it the best I can. I am going to bring in the DR book and show her what I am working on.

BTW, I am working on detachment. It works with OM.

Goodfight, Thank you. It's so hard to think of living alone but it's going to be the best therapy for me and I know it, actually I am looking forward to it. I wish you luck in all of this. I am sorry for your H and all the hurt he has caused you. I know I am sorry for all the hurt I have caused my H.

Journaling:
I am at a point right now where I don't really KNOW if I want my marriage to work. I am now waking up in the middle of the night with conversations playing over and over that were not nice conversations with H. I know our previous R/M is dead and we will have to start over but the "old" keeps coming up. I am working on the detachment from OM and it's getting easier and easier. WTF was I thinking?

I made contact with H via email and he replied back saying he is confused with all the roller coaster of emotions I continue to display. SHIAT! I didn't want him to feel that. I just wanted to extend a nice gesture of Easter Wishes. I became angry/hurt that he didn't respond. Then I fired back with an emotional email that triggered him. The last thing I wanted was to draw him back into "my drama". He has kept on pushing for the divorce and why hasn't the mediator gotten back to us with the typed up judgment. I got scared that he had moved on and GAL. I am not ready for him to move on to another life. I want him to work on our M but I can't get "us" to that point till I have physically left OM. That time is getting closer and closer.

I know, I know....we need to work on ourselves first. I want us to get to that point to open up the communication with him for him to work on himself and me to work on myself.

First meeting with therapist went well. She won't put me on meds yet. I am tempted to just go to ER for an induced coma of morphine for a few days of rest and turn off the brain just for a few hours!

GF,
I responded in your thread as well.

Yes, I very much missed my husband and our lifestyle. I did NOT miss the mean and nastiness that he had projected towards me though.

I ALWAYS thought about going back but then I was brought back to WHY I left. I did not leave because of OM. I left because our M was pretty crappy, in my eyes not in H's. OM was just willing to help me out.

I did come back to H SEVERAL times and HE did not do work to better himself. He was needy, insecure, whiney, etc. I grew annoyed with the ILY and the "forced" change. He truly wasn't not himself. It was hard for me to be around him while HE is walking on eggshells being totally insecure, yet doing everything HE thought possible to "keep me" from leaving him. That wasn't the change I wanted or needed.

OM became controlling and kept me from having much contact with H. I wanted to contact him. I wanted to communicate with him but when I did, I had a manipulative person "taking care" of me and it wasn't worth the current battle with OM. I was just so happy to be away from H and M.

I LOVED it when H contacted me but OM became jealous and annoyed. The mind frame I was in, I couldn't think or act for myself, I allowed myself to be controlled an manipulated by OM.

journaling and info:
I wished I had gone out on my own and not the OM route. I was desperate to move, I needed help to move and OM saw opportunity. As I am coming out of the fog, man, I cannot BELIEVE I was so manipulated and controlled. More so in the A than in the M with H. Talk about SERIOUS self esteem issues. Currently, OM is getting scared. He is sensing my independence and my fog clearing and is freaking. I have to take this slow on my break from him. My best friend calls him a stalker.

Journaling:

Today is 16th Wedding Anniversary. What I have concluded so far? Both of us are in a MLC. Very down day.

Journaling:

Today I am awaken with new thoughts. BOTH of us are/were in a MLC. BOTH of us need to do the work.

Hard, emotional month so far. H emailed me yesterday regarding taxes. Of course I had wished it was to acknowledge our anniversary, but how do you positively acknowledge that when this past year and half has been so negative?

First email I sent back to him was one liner thanks for the info on taxes. 2nd email, thanks for this thanks for that I will be in town next week and would like to get together and talk. Then I CRACKED...I typed, "I don't know if it's appropriate or not to mention our anniversary today, but it's in my thoughts as you are." Usually I would have had an email back by now, but nothing.

This BLOWS ME knowing both of us are in a MLC and he doesn't. Me being the chaser now. I committed FI (financial infidelity) 2 times. My cry for help. Trying to get H to pay attention to me to no avail. WOW...here comes my whining and sniveling feeling sorry myself.

I need to get out of my current physical situation and start making things happen for me!

JTB,
HA! I didn't realize I was having a MLC till I left the mediator's office after hashing out the settlement, went to the bookstore to pick up a book on how to emotionally handle a divorce where next to that book was Divorce Remedy.....friends have told me I've been in a MLC for the last 7 years, but they didn't tell me that till, NOW and no, I would not have believed them! 7 years was when H's started as well.....very very interesting...

BTW, I picked up the DR book and never touched the other book.


Edited by Jasmine (04/16/10 07:08 PM)

Journaling Again:

Holy Crap! This HURTS! The realization that H is in a MLC and him not ever wanting me back. Knowing, reflecting, reading and experiencing, I *thought* I was a guarantee back into H's life. The tables are turned and I am looking at this M differently and HOLY MOLY, have I got some REAL work to do. Gawd, I am sick to my stomach! Deep down, I felt I was in control of this....not so much any more...


Edited by Jasmine (04/16/10 08:02 PM)

Originally Posted By: trapt

That is a curious statement. The guaranteed part. I think it happens a lot around here. I'm not trying give you a hard time or anything, I actually think you're doing pretty well. This is a positive realization.


Nothing personal taken. I am just coming out of the fog so bare with me a bit. I go back and forth. I believe all of us in this this sit, no matter what category you are in, all thought our marriages were a guarantee. This is the taking one for granted in a M. The lack of communication we all experienced.

WOW. Just WOW! Lot's of realizations.

Quote:
I know this has to be very difficult, as painful as it seems, IMO this is a good thing. You'll get through this. Focus on what you can control and do your best to keep you mind in a positive place. There is no sense in dwelling on, or replaying the past.


This just SUCKS! I am truly sorry for those of you on the LBS side. I had no effing idea. I am TRYING to stop the replay but I am waking up in the middle of the night KNOWING I am not to blame. WE BOTH are to blame.

Quote:
There is no sense in letting your mind spin about all this at this point either. What's done is done. Focus on moving forward now.


Excellent point. Easier said than done right now. I know I will get through this but what a blow.

I truly appreciate you pointing out certain things.

Originally Posted By: Celestial X 5

I`m sorry you`re hurting and I do feel your pain. What sometimes happens when one S is in MLC, the LBS has no choice but to try and pick up the pieces and carry on. By the time the MLC`er comes out of the fog, it`s sometimes too late for the M to be saved.


Thank you for your kind words. I just feel so overwhelmed. Selfish or not, I was the one in therapy for over half our married lives. I thought it was always MY FAULT. I did my best to get us on the right track ALWAYS THINKING IT WAS MY FAULT due to my past issues. The turning point for me to run the first time HE was in HIS MLC!

Quote:
Too much damage has been done, too much time has passed. LBS learn to live without the drama and heartache, and actually get a second chance to enjoy life once more, and most do.


I understand this all too well now. Seriously, major conflicting emotions here. H was going through his MLC while I was. H put me through so much bs aka drama while he started his MLC, the reason for me to run.

Quote:
My H is in MLC. I`m positive he feels like you do, that he`s sure he has control over our sitch. That if he wanted to, he could have me drop everything to be with him. I worked far too hard to get where I am today to give it up.


DO NOT LOSE THIS! You have worked way to hard to get to where you are. I think us WAS have had a sense of entitlement. Marriage will always be there so let's try the other side of the fence.

Quote:
I`m not trying to give you a hard time either. I do hope you can connect with your H. You have lived and learned the hard way, you deserve true hapiness.


Thank you. As I hope for happiness for you.

I am WORN DOWN! How much MORE psycho therapy do I have to do to truly become a happy person? How much MORE must I endure to have a happy committed two sided MARRIAGE?

Thank you Celestial. Not a fun road that's for sure.

Journaling:
H emailed me back after a half a day goes by to tell me "any day is fine to meet up, just let him know date and time because he wants to make plans." hhhhmmmmpffff...I have to schedule time with him now? I NEVER had to do that. He would drop everything at a moments notice. I LIKE SEEING THIS IN HIM!!!

Still very angry towards him for all the nasty abusive things he said to me in the past. Really hard to think about R while all this is replaying. Time to really sit down and look at the first post to me in what do I want in a marriage, a husband, a relationship.

H ALWAYS had a life with me. He got to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. I was the caretaker, the nurturer. I made everything run smooth for him so he didn't have to lift a finger. If he wanted to go for a mtn bike ride or road ride, I always made sure he had clean bike clothes and he could find them. He would come home, put them and leave me to go "play" with his friends. What's changed now? He has to get all these things in order for himself now? No one to take care of him and make sure everything was done for him? WOW...that hurts.

DMoney,
I have come to terms that my H is in a MLC too. He just isn't the LBS. So I have conflict of how to treat him. As a LBS I like seeing him taking more of a stand with me and that I have to schedule time with him. As me being just a W, it hurts me that I allowed him to use me as a door mat.

Thanks all. I have been reading some of HF's posts. I am trying as hard as I can to get through this. Both of us going through a MLC at the same time. The hurt feelings the hurt words the hurt attitudes. Replay as to why I left keep coming up.

Journaling:
H emailed back and asked "what are your intentions on seeing me next week?" OUCH!

Personally I was hoping he and I could talk about DR and Retrouville. I keep replaying HIS ABUSIVE attitude towards me the last 7 years of marriage though. Him never acknowledging that SOMETHING was wrong in the marriage and not taking me serious when I expressed us going to MC. Wondering if it's just time for us to call it good and both just go our separate ways.

Email first thing this morning from Mediator to call back ASAP. Call her back and we were going through the typing up of the judgment. I will have the judgment by Tuesday to review and then I have to find my own attorney to go over it.

Not going to be a good week when the attorney starts off your Sunday like this.

UPATE:

I was in a mentally and verbally abusive relationship! IT STOPPED. I am a better person now. I didn't deserve it. NO ONE DOES! I did NOT have an affair till 3 months before I physically left my marriage. I mentally left my marriage 10 years ago. He deserves someone who will unconditionally love him and so do I.

Divorced June 22nd. 1 year after filing!

I TRULY wish EVERYONE the best and for happiness.

 

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