[bluerose]

           Here we go again.


Previous thread:  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9851.0

[Rising Phoenix]

Coming along with you again blue rose xx

[bluerose]

    I dont want to do this anymore!! Lol

[Rising Phoenix]

The thread blue or the journey? Xx

[nah]

    I dont want to do this anymore!! Lol

  

I wish we could just keep one long @ss thread bc every time the conversation starts to get good, we have to start a new one...

Thank you Bluerose for keeping the all time best thread going.

[bluerose]

 Your welcome and im glad it helps those who need it. The journey. I dont want to do tbe journey anymore.

[Milly]

Me, too, completely sick of this journey.

[bluerose]

     Yeah, i think im real close to not standing anymore. I dont think that i have any love or compassion for him any more.
       I have been having a reoccurring dream for about 2 weeks now, that he comes to the house and tells d13 he wants to talk to me. I dont go. Monday night they had an argument that ended with him texting her. Its on my thread. One of the texts says tell your mother to call me. I will talk to her. I havent and wont. He is not telling me what do.

[Rising Phoenix]

I’m sick of the journey aswell. I’m still waiting for indifference so I don’t give a damn. He not a husband or a father, he is a *** for the treatment of his children. It’s his loss, no b days or xmas or sons prom next year or daughters in 3 yrs, no attendance at marriages or grandchildren he will see. It’s just you know that a piece is missing at these milestones and that he isn’t bothered that he is missing xx

[Rising Phoenix]

What’s you thread called blue rose? Xx

[bluerose]

Snuff 2

[nah]

This is a quote from Nas from the previous thread...  I wanted to respond but we needed to start a new thread.

This isn't the situation with my H, but for those of you where your H became a vanisher because of pressure from an insecure OW, I often think that even though you can't see it, the resentment must build and build over the years.  The more the MLCer is forced to give up to appease the OW, the more I'm certain that at some point, they will grow to resent the OW and blame her for how they feel.


At some point, they have to realize that what they did was supremely sh*tty and cowardly and then they feel guilt and shame and they can't reconcile those feelings because they vanished and now they can't talk to the LBS about it, so it just compounds and they have to keep trying to smother the knowledge that they're sh*tty cowards to keep it out of their mind.

When they felt like crap in the marriage, they blamed us.  When they continue to feel like sh*tty cowards for vanishing and causing way more damage than was necessary, who are they going to blame?  Not themselves.  Who made them vanish?  Who pressured them to do such a sh*tty, cowardly thing?

It might take a long time, but I really do believe in those cases, they will come to blame the OW and the resentment will cause the relationship to implode.


I believe this to be so true in many cases.  It's difficult for many LBSers of Vanishers b/c most just do not know what's going on.  Sure that's a good thing in some ways but also it can eat at us that they just danced off into the sunset and started a new awesome life.  Easy to imagine b/c of our shared history,... we did dance off and we did have a awesome life.  BUT... there was no guilt, there was no baggage, I didn't steal him from his real family... I would never do something like that.... what kind of person would?

An insecure piece of sh!t.... that's who.  They are messed up every single time.  I'm lucky enough to have space yet also have had many people approach me with stories of how pathetic the "girl" behaves,... how sick so many people are about how my ex-husband has "changed"....

The Leaver himself has leaked to me how his new life "makes him sick".... then he turned around and married her.... why?

He doesn't know what else to do.  He made his bed and he's too weak to fix it.  Yes, I do think the resentment will build to the point that it will explode.  I also think this is common for many of the vanishers. 

[Schratz66]

Attaching

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Along for the journey. 

I wonder if I'm a vanisher.  I don't give husband a chance to see or talk to me.  I've made 0% of an attempt for him to see me. 

But, HE can figure it out. Man up!!!!

•shameless plug• I'm trying to post again so please go over to my thread 😊

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Nah I think you have a great point.

What hurts the most is thinking I got all the hurt and pain and he has a wonderful life free of responsibility. 

I'm sure he's heard how good I look and how good I'm doing from mutual friends.  I hope this makes him think that the women he tried so hard to destroy not only survived but thrived.  OW had him convinced I was a weak, raging lunatic. 

I read somewhere that vanisher pay close attention to us, we don't realize it.  I pray that's true. 

[Nas]

Along for the journey. 

I wonder if I'm a vanisher.  I don't give husband a chance to see or talk to me.  I've made 0% of an attempt for him to see me. 

Very interesting.  Mine vanished a few months after I stopped contacting him completely after I was diagnosed with cancer.  He vanished, but did I vanish first?  Maybe in his perception, but he is the one who left me and started a whole new life.

My female cousin who had an MLC (I had a great conversation with her that is documented in one of my earliest threads) left her H, married OM, divorced that OM and then left the state with a second OM.  Her children were early 20s and teens at the time and they stopped talking to her...and she viewed it as them turning their back on her.

The perception of these folks is so messed up.

[Treasure]

Attaching x

[nah]

I read somewhere that vanisher pay close attention to us, we don't realize it.  I pray that's true.

I read that many years ago but thought, "oh no, not mine, he avoids me like the plague....not only does he not pay attention, he works very hard to pretend I don't exist"

How wrong I was....

Last year when we met several times for financial reasons... we had hours long lunches once a week for about six weeks.  Now we barely met between BD and divorce, and when we did it was all business.  I begged, pleaded, all that crap to meet weekly after BD, nope he wouldn't do that.... but now here we were chatting normally like nothing ever happened.

He knew who I was seeing, who I was no longer seeing, he knew places I had been, things about my work  ,...

He knew EVERYTHING about my boyfriend.... where he went to school, where he lived, who his friends were,... what he drove 

Finally I asked him if he was keeping a notebook and he stopped....

I was floored with all the things he knew,... this was about 3 1/2 years after BD and he knew every step I had made from week one.

Oh yes, they are watching...

So make sure you live big and loud, so you can savor the deliciousness of them eating their hearts out.

[Ro828]

I am one of those LBS who fight having thoughts that my X is living an awesome life with OW because of his vanishing act so I really appreciate your perspective Nah.

"The Leaver himself has leaked to me how his new life "makes him sick".... then he turned around and married her.... why?

He doesn't know what else to do.  He made his bed and he's too weak to fix it." 


I would like to know why also. How can they easily leave their wife but can't leave the OW.  My X didn't show weakness when he up and left me, bought a new house with her and basically built a different life.   It doesn't make sense. 

(I hope my X's new life "makes him sick" because the beauty he aligned himself with is riddled with issues.  If he couldn't deal with me who doesn't have a third of her issues what makes him believe he can deal with her.)

[stillbaffled]

Thanks, BR, for getting us started on this next thread. 

I wouldn't dream of missing it. 

[If_only]

Attaching on this new thread!

[Rising Phoenix]

I read somewhere that vanisher pay close attention to us, we don't realize it.  I pray that's true.

I read that many years ago but thought, "oh no, not mine, he avoids me like the plague....not only does he not pay attention, he works very hard to pretend I don't exist"

How wrong I was....

Last year when we met several times for financial reasons... we had hours long lunches once a week for about six weeks.  Now we barely met between BD and divorce, and when we did it was all business.  I begged, pleaded, all that crap to meet weekly after BD, nope he wouldn't do that.... but now here we were chatting normally like nothing ever happened.

He knew who I was seeing, who I was no longer seeing, he knew places I had been, things about my work  ,...

He knew EVERYTHING about my boyfriend.... where he went to school, where he lived, who his friends were,... what he drove 

Finally I asked him if he was keeping a notebook and he stopped....

I was floored with all the things he knew,... this was about 3 1/2 years after BD and he knew every step I had made from week one.

Oh yes, they are watching...

So make sure you live big and loud, so you can savor the deliciousness of them eating their hearts out.

I don’t know how my h would be watching. He has nothing to do with his family or friends, his family don’t communicate with me and the children either. He doesn’t do social media, he doesn’t speak to our kids, s15 and d13. Ow stalks my social media so I have deactivated it. H only has ow and her friends as he no longer speaks to ow parents either.

I feel he no longer knows anything about his kids or who they are which was evident in a b Day card to d13 which was more for a 5 yr old.

I find with vanishers there is not much to report so I don’t update my thread that much so I don’t get replies much on my personal thread. I am so glad of this thread. Xx

[Rising Phoenix]

I would like to know why also. How can they easily leave their wife but can't leave the OW.  My X didn't show weakness when he up and left me, bought a new house with her and basically built a different life.   It doesn't make sense. 

(I hope my X's new life "makes him sick" because the beauty he aligned himself with is riddled with issues.  If he couldn't deal with me who doesn't have a third of her issues what makes him believe he can deal with her.)

Ow certainly has more issues than me but would she doesn’t have is kids, apparently it’s quiet at hers and he can do what he likes when he likes. Ow also has time to stroke his ego and pander to his needs such as warming his slippers! That’s obviously where I went wrong, I can cook and I didn’t warm his slippers! Xx

[nah]

RP-  you are really early in the vanishing game.

Time will tell with yours. 

[bluerose]

    You didnt warm his slippers. Well that explains everything. The coward accused me of laughing at a poem he wrote me when we were dating. 20 years ago. Yup, we all had this coming to us because of those sane and rational reasons.

[nah]

I say this all the time but it really would be refreshing if just one of them said, "I'm a selfish pr!ck and I just want to runaway like a child"

[Rising Phoenix]

For them to say anything nah would be something. Not even a kiss my a**e xx

[Yellowroseoftexas]

I'm loving this thread. 

I'M LIVING AS LOUD AS A SMOKING HOT 54 YEAR OLD WOMAN WHO IS THE BEST SHE CAN BE CAN LIVE.  Not a bad life.   

I have never felt a need to revisit people and places that are no longer part of my life.  End of chapter and I move on.  This could be viewed as a vanisher I suppose. 

[nah]

I'M LIVING AS LOUD AS A SMOKING HOT 54 YEAR OLD WOMAN WHO IS THE BEST SHE CAN BE CAN LIVE. 

Love this.  Nothing sexier than confidence. 

[Rising Phoenix]

Vanisher is still vanished. I had the amended divorce petition which was wrong and had to be sent back again so I emailed a rant. Told him to get his s**t together and sort it and contact his kids.

I felt stupid after.
Has anyone else emailed then felt stupid after?

I felt stupid as I know I won’t get a reply and he will dig his heels in even more. 😠

[Tyks]

I felt stupid every time I contacted..   Still do.

Pick yourself up and carry on.  There's nothing you can do about it now

[nah]

We tend to monkey brain more than the average LBS when we have contact b/c we have so little.

I agree with Tykes, there's nothing you can do about it now anyways.

Honestly, unless you overly viciously attack every single contact, it's a small little speed bump, that's all.

The first six months post BD I was so very proud that I stopped 98% of the messages that I wanted to send to him.  I often typed and erased, or hand wrote and ripped it up.  However a few did get by and of course once we talked he said to me, "why would I want contact with you anyways, all you do is use me as a punching bag"

Was he fire trucking serious? I truly honestly thought he would be surprised how much I didn't do... I could have gone to their work (like another boss's ex-wife did) and thrown a tantrum in front of everybody.  I knew where they lived and did not even drive by....not once.  I knew where his band was playing every weekend.  What stopped me from showing up with a tribe of angry friends?  Believe me, I had to hold my friends back.  I could have sent hundreds of messages a day, instead we went weeks without one message. 
Yet he STILL tried to point his finger at me that I was being "bitter and needed to get over it" ... Yes, at less than six months post BD, that is what he said to me.

What a d!ck.

Fast forward four years.  He initiated a touch and go.  I was mostly friendly but I admit I gave him way more jabs than I did in the early days.  When I found out our daughter was making their wedding cake; I ripped him up, down and sideways.  Guess what he did?  He contacted me just a few days later like it never happened. 

So don't sweat the small stuff.  In general, they will or will not contact according to THEIR needs.  A few blips of anger isn't going to change the game one way or another.

[heroIam]

We tend to monkey brain more than the average LBS when we have contact b/c we have so little.

 In general, they will or will not contact according to THEIR needs.  A few blips of anger isn't going to change the game one way or another.


I believe in these two statements wholeheartedly.  These ring very true for me.  So, best thing to do with contact (some great advice from ReallyTrying) is to stay neutral to positive.  Takes practice.

[MsMedfly]

ME TOO!!!

I would always feel like a total idiot when I was forced out of no contact.. Now.. Not so much..

I pick and chose IF I respond... Nine times out of ten, I say absolutely nothing!! Puffy rarely says anything that requires a response. He's typically ranting about our son.. and I just ignore and delete...

INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT.. Need to see what ya'll think about this..

I'm four years in, three since BD and divorce.. I've moved on, long ago and am in a fully committted relationship with my Duke...

Last week my son informs me that his dad has asked him to attend family counseling, with him, the OW, and her children.... Apparently, they are having issues (insert shocked face) and are in counseling....

HOLD ON A MINUTE....  I was in counseling for over a year and PUFFY WOULD NEVER SHOW UP!!! He refused....Wouldn't show up for marriage, family NONE OF IT..  Then filed for divorce behind my back... BUT YET... Is attending therapy with the ow and HER KIDS?!!! They aren't married, not even living together.... ?

But yet, they are in therapy???!!! S says it's because they are trying to work things out and her children have major issues with Puffy... Again, I would be shocked but I'm a former LBSer.. Nothing shocks me anymore!!

I won't lie, I was PISSED when s told me this... His pos dad wouldn't show up to family therapy with his own son and at the time, his own wife... BUT will for this home wrecking hoochie? They are both homewreckers.. but still... Who does this?

Never mind, I know the answer.. MLC... That's the only explanation... Healthy people don't act like this!!

[Treasur]

Does your son want to do that? And why if the 'issues' are about OW's kids and your XH, or is your son involved in their 'family' set up?

Completely understand your feelings. The free gift from it? Think of how much time/cash you saved in pointless family therapy with an MLCer. And obviously his great new happy...hmmm, not so much.

[Rising Phoenix]

ME TOO!!!

I would always feel like a total idiot when I was forced out of no contact.. Now.. Not so much..

I pick and chose IF I respond... Nine times out of ten, I say absolutely nothing!! Puffy rarely says anything that requires a response. He's typically ranting about our son.. and I just ignore and delete...



INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT.. Need to see what ya'll think about this..

I'm four years in, three since BD and divorce.. I've moved on, long ago and am in a fully committted relationship with my Duke...

Last week my son informs me that his dad has asked him to attend family counseling, with him, the OW, and her children.... Apparently, they are having issues (insert shocked face) and are in counseling....

HOLD ON A MINUTE....  I was in counseling for over a year and PUFFY WOULD NEVER SHOW UP!!! He refused....Wouldn't show up for marriage, family NONE OF IT..  Then filed for divorce behind my back... BUT YET... Is attending therapy with the ow and HER KIDS?!!! They aren't married, not even living together.... ?

But yet, they are in therapy???!!! S says it's because they are trying to work things out and her children have major issues with Puffy... Again, I would be shocked but I'm a former LBSer.. Nothing shocks me anymore!!

I won't lie, I was PISSED when s told me this... His pos dad wouldn't show up to family therapy with his own son and at the time, his own wife... BUT will for this home wrecking hoochie? They are both homewreckers.. but still... Who does this?

Never mind, I know the answer.. MLC... That's the only explanation... Healthy people don't act like this!!

Thing is he doesn’t break no contact, I do usually to something to do with divorce or to try get him to be amicable or see his kids.
So annoying, tw*t  features never did any decorating or a lot of housework or take me fishing and would never let me on a motorbike but has decorated ow Home from top to bottom and now fishing and motorbike riding with ow. Prob never out of his sight! I knew I shouldn’t of emailed as the social media quotes went off the scale. Apparently I abused him in our marriage! Wtf! He is obviously playing matyr. My friends and family laughed and said after 3 yrs she still has no idea who he is! Xx

[Tyks]

Ms.  M that is just nuts.  And you know what?  It drives me nuckin futz when I hear that the d!ck is doing all those things that he wouldn't do with or for me. I just don't get it and I don't think j ever will

[nah]

HOLD ON A MINUTE....  I was in counseling for over a year and PUFFY WOULD NEVER SHOW UP!!! He refused....Wouldn't show up for marriage, family NONE OF IT..  Then filed for divorce behind my back... BUT YET... Is attending therapy with the ow and HER KIDS?!!!

Who does this?

Never mind, I know the answer.. MLC... That's the only explanation... Healthy people don't act like this!!

Just months after The Leaver left, I heard through the grapevine that the girl was trying to get him to go to couple's therapy...
for THEM!!!   

Can you imagine the look on the therapists face?  "Ummm.... yes, my married boyfriend has a wife of 28-yrs... and yes, that's longer than I have been alive,... but, he needs to be told that he needs to pay more attention to ME".... 

Anyways....

You know what?  Them going to therapy or vacations or stupid concerts or whatever it is that the ow wants DOES make sense.

Especially the vanishers....

Again, it's just more of the same.  Actually when they do these things it just cements the original theory that they are just simply big fat cowards.

Pre-bomb drop, something was stirring inside them undetected by us.  Their depression grew and since they are master avoiders, they dumped it all on us and ran away. 

They found someone as broken as them, someone pathetic enough to hook up with a married man. 

Once they were in, they were in.  They had to move their morals to justify their actions not just to others, but to themselves.  How do you do that?  Well, the only thing that can justify this kind of destruction to your family is for "happiness' and "Love", right?  Isn't that the reason they left? 

Now that they are "all in", they are stuck.  They can't push back against the emotional blackmail that the ow heaps on b/c then they would have to admit that the ugliness inside them had nothing to do with us after all. 

On top of all that crap, the ow will push and push and push to prove she is "better" than us.  Look at their love.  It is so big she can make him do all the things we couldn't. 

I call bullsh!t. 

If our husbands hated counselors, or vacations, or whatever it is that the ow is making them do when they were with us, then they still hate it now but they have no choice, ironically b/c of their choices. 

As a LBS I can do or not do anything I chose b/c I'm not a big fat phony liar. 

Sucks to be them.

[Tyks]

Thanks,  nah.  You always seem to make the day a little brighter

[MsMedfly]

And Nah wins again....!!!

Completely and totally... sucks to be them...  And I'm so grateful that I'm not the one that is living on his drama wheel any longer.

S wants nothing to do with the "family" therapy.. and has no intention of ever being involved.

I'm still laughing... You cannot make this stuff up and they give us such amazing material.. I think I might need to make a career change and become a stand up comedian!!

Well.. It is, what it is... I'm just thankful that it's not my circus, not my monkeys..

Happy Taco Tuesday Ya'll!!

[Shocked]

I think that would but a satisfied smirk on my face if they need therapy already life is not so terrific in Lala land!!!

[nah]

Since we can't find our husbands....

What amazing things have you done since he disappeared?

I sold my way too big for just me house and bought a 125 year old disaster of a house to rehab....

And I go on vacations without planning where to stay.... He would never do that. 

[Rising Phoenix]

Fab nah!
I have decorated my whole house which I would never of attempted and he didn’t do even though very capable. Put up a fence in my front garden and took my kids on holiday for the first time on my own.

Doesn’t sound that great really, but I am damn proud I can wAllpaper and change light switches and sockets.
Am hoping to learn to ride a motor cycle as always wanted to. Xx

[Nas]

Well, I moved by myself from the frigid northeast to a beautiful little town down south, got a gorgeous apartment overlooking an amazing salt water pool and outdoor kitchen area.

I started to feel a little better about myself.  Standing on the moving walkway at the airport on my way to my new life, I saw a business man in a nice suit stop at the end and just stand there the whole time I was on the walkway.  I figured he was waiting for someone or just stopping to figure out where his terminal was. When I finally got to the end, he said, "You are gorgeous."

I worked at home in my new apartment, so I spent my lunch hour in the pool.  I found an amazing new hairstylist who was funny and had the best southern drawl and wanted to hook me up with some of her firefighter husband's single coworkers as soon as I told her I was ready to date. 

The apartment complex had a 24 hour gym, so if I couldn't sleep, I worked out.  I was getting into the best shape of my life.  I even got hit on one day while picking out avocados at the grocery store (granted, it was a guy I had no interest in talking to at all, but still...)

Of course, within 6 months I was diagnosed with advanced cancer and had to pack everything up and move back to the cold, cold northeast. 

But hey, it was a great 6 months by the pool.

[CallingHeart]

Love this question, so here are my thoughts:

- I packed up my car and my dog and took a solo tent-camping trip to Carlsbad caverns. I still recall this trip and think - wow! I did that!

- I continued with karate and obtained my 2nd degree black belt status. wow! I did that! (this was big for me. I almost quit because karate was tied to BD and for months I couldn't go and would sit in the car in the parking lot, sobbing and not actually going in to class).  My instructor would drive me there and she was so sweet. She said I was doing a great job just getting myself there and she was OK with me practicing cryrate until I was ready for the rest of it. LOL.   

- I presented at a major healthcare conference. wow! I did that!  I have an amazing job and the project I worked on was singled out as a big success.

- I've decorated for and attended the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year birthday parties of 5 great nieces and 2 great nephews. awww! I did that! And I have enjoyed a lot of family time I may not have been as available for.  One of the twin boys loves his Aunt CallingHeart and loves me to hold him when I'm around. I don't think we would have this closeness if ghost was there too.

- I've drastically improved my credit score and I've been approved a HELOC and started improvements to the downtown townhome.  cool! I did that!

- Cleared a strip in the hill country property to start the process of getting electricity up to the clearing to the camper.  hmmm! I did that! now what?  (this is a slow process but I'm not really focusing on it too much it's work!! and I'm ok with camping w/o electricity... until it gets too hot in the summer )

- Reconnected with a group of about 15 girl friends from 20 years ago.  fun!  I did that!  I now meet monthly with them for dinner and bunco.  They have beautiful homes in the burbs and I'm hosting the next gathering in downtown.  Last night I told them to lower their expectations for the next meet up and we all just laughed and laughed!! Then I came home and looked around and realized I have a beautiful home too.  It's just vertical  (3 story) but it's lovely and they are looking forward to the adventure downtown next month.

- I'm so much busier now and feel like my life is full.  There is laughter and good times with family and friends. 

[Treasur]

Wishing my vanisher would re-vanish gently but...

- went skydiving (LBS numbness means no fear at 15000ft!)
- went kayaking in Florida
- haven't cooked for months
- burn scented candles constantly (as OCD risk man has gone)
- moved to my little house by the sea and wake up to the sound of waves and seagulls
- sold and cleared two houses on my own
- survived a car accident and cancer surgery

Not bad now I look at it actually!

[nah]

Doesn’t sound that great really, but I am damn proud I can wAllpaper and change light switches and sockets.

Never done switches and sockets myself.  That's pretty awesome.

Am hoping to learn to ride a motor cycle as always wanted to. Xx

I have thought of doing this too.  Now is the time.   

Of course, within 6 months I was diagnosed with advanced cancer and had to pack everything up and move back to the cold, cold northeast. 

But hey, it was a great 6 months by the pool.

I live in the northeast too.  Damn this spring sucks.  Nas, I pray you get healthy and back to the South and go get those firefighters.

- Reconnected with a group of about 15 girl friends from 20 years ago.

After reading about the five regrets of the dying,.... I did this too.  What a blessing to have old friends back in our lives.

- went skydiving (LBS numbness means no fear at 15000ft!)

WOW!!

- survived a car accident and cancer surgery

Not bad now I look at it actually!

Double WOW!!

[Milly]

I ran my family winery completely by myself and saved it from going bankrupt, got my D through high school and into university in the UK, gave her a big (70 kids) 18th birthday party (summer after BD), drove by myself from Italy to Northern Ireland where my mother had moved 8 months before she died. I wanted to salvage some of my mother's stuff before my sister threw it away or gave it away, sold and moved out of a large home into a small apartment, resolved numerous financial problems, created a job for myself, learned to stop controlling everyone, I can now buy scented candles and flowers because OCD H is not here, and I do buy the most scented ones I can find just because I CAN!

More things I do for me: get facial treatments, buy lots of make up, pretty underwear, lots and lots of creams and brushes and things for my bathroom, flowers or a plant every week, something new to wear about once a month and anything I fancy that I can afford. No more denying myself treats. No more overdoing for anyone not even my kids. Laundry dirty? Do it yourself, because when I did it for all of you and folded your clothes and put them away like a 5 star hotel you all accused me of being a control freak and a manipulator!

I'm definitely thinking a lot more about me now.

[Shocked]

That is a big question!
I sold my family home, quit a great job, and moved two states way. Got a new job, new home and am working hard at meeting new people. Celebrated a significant birthday on Monday. What wears me out the most is fighting off being lonely and acting like having a MLC XH just like any other D. Hiding the deep scars and pretending I’ve moved on.

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Learned not to be afraid (not sure why I was so scared to be without him).  Feel 100% adult. 

Decorated (probably over decorated) my townhouse girly and frilly.  Estrogen overload. 

I'm most proud of holding my family together when I was hurt and wounded beyond belief.  My children saw a strong mother who they could depend on.  A woman that had hell  unleashed upon her and she withstood the storm.  I found God. 

[Milly]

Like Yellow, I feel 100% grown up now, I certainly wasn't when I was still in my marriage. But I didn't know it at the time. I thought grown up was about age.

I also have over done the frilly, girlie and am absolutely loving it.

[nah]

What wears me out the most is fighting off being lonely and acting like having a MLC XH just like any other D. Hiding the deep scars and pretending I’ve moved on.

Why pretend MLC divorce is like any other divorce?  I often tell it like it is and I'm surprised how many people respond with something like, "sounds like a mid-life crisis"... of course The Leaver is over the top stereotypical.

Shocked, I think you are at about 2 1/2 years, right?

That's still so early to "move on",.... I also pretended for a long time.  It's been five years for me and I still sink now and then.  New job, new house, new life... it's a big deal. 

I think as a group, we are amazing.

[Yellowroseoftexas]

I also pretend that I've moved on.

Very few people I come across understand MLC.  Try to explain but most, especially family think he's just a womanizer. 

I'm also embarrassed.  I know I shouldn't be, but I am.  Still wonder how much do I not know about what he did.  Wonder about what he's doing, especially on Saturdays. 

Am i only one tired? I miss my husband so much and want this OVER.  4 years and I still love this man with all my heart. Not sure that part is getting easier. 

[nah]

Very few people I come across understand MLC. 

I never initially mention MLC.  I just state facts and let them come to their own conclusions.

I'm no longer embarrassed, I say it with confidence and a smile, "My dumb @ss husband of 28 years, seemingly out of nowhere, started acting strange, and just left.  He was cheating on me with a girl our daughter's age and now they are married."

I'm not kidding, 9 times out of 10 the person I'm talking to will mention Midlife Crisis.  Several times that person will say something like, "I knew a guy like that...." and tell me a close version of what The Leaver did.

Hey, my husband was on a Sugar Daddy website before, during and after Bomb Drop. 
Am I embarrassed? 
Hell No.  He did it, not me.

Sure, I miss my husband and I accepted the fact that I will always love the man he used to be.
We had a great life, a really great life.  If it wasn't so good then all this crap would be so much easier. 

Sometimes I think the blessing and the curse of having a vanisher is we remember them as they were.... if they were in our faces everyday we probably wouldn't love them as much.

I really don't know though, b/c mine has always been very low contact. 

[Treasur]

I never initially mention MLC.  I just state facts and let them come to their own conclusions.
I'm not kidding, 9 times out of 10 the person I'm talking to will mention Midlife Crisis.  Several times that person will say something like, "I knew a guy like that...." and tell me a close version of what The Leaver did.
Yup

Sure, I miss my husband and I accepted the fact that I will always love the man he used to be.
We had a great life, a really great life.  If it wasn't so good then all this crap would be so much easier. 
So true

Sometimes I think the blessing and the curse of having a vanisher is we remember them as they were.... if they were in our faces everyday we probably wouldn't love them as much.
And true again...although it's a useful reminder that they are in crisis when you have a little exposure to the WTF who does this? or the alien version, IMHO. Helpful reminder that it wasn't about me or even our M...if it was, there would be no need for the bats$it crazy for so long after they run away.  

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Sorry if I brought the mood down.  Wasn't my intent.   

You guys are right.  Husband was a monster at the end.  He would have danced a happy dance over my dead body. 

Anyone have any knowledge of The Far Country for the vanisher? Do they remember us?

[Tyks]

They remember us everyday and that is why they are low contact or vanishers. They can't face us due to their guilt for f-ing everything up!  Besides,  if they talk to us or see us we may just see that their new shiny life ain't so shiny at all 😂

[Yellowroseoftexas]

Tyks  I hope you are right.

 I'm hurting so bad right now.  I think because he's a vanisher all I imagine is a wonderful life free of the horrible nagging wife.   I'm so tired of feeling used up, forgotten and unloveable. 

Tonight I feel God has forgotten me.  I need hope.   

[Rising Phoenix]

I think Tyks we all imagine they have a wonderful life. I think I have lost hope but also because I have changed. I’ve had to.

I also don’t think I can live with the insecuriroties if he did come back again. Who’s he texting? What’s he up to when I’m at work? Is he meeting her for lunch? I’ve done that 10 times and tbh made me ill.

The cheating and lying was bad enough but for me I feel cutting his children dead is the worst and the fall out and mental health issues my children have had as a result, I can’t put them through that again.

Friends and family say that I need to date but I’m not ready and wonder if I ever will be. The hurt runs too deep. Perhaps when divorced finalised I may feel different but who knows.

Some days I just want some form of response or communication but I get nothing. Although according to ow with her posts if I do email him, he has a daily battle with me in his head due to my abuse so still way into ge tunnel. I wonder when she will ever meet the real h as from what I can tell h hasn’t surfaced yet but then what do I know as vanished for 10 mths. I do wonder if he ever loved me as never been a romantic man but when she wrote him love letters he wrote them back. Was sexy talk in texts! Not what I got so perhaps he has found real love. He did say couple times when he had returned it was all fake and did what he thought he was supposed to but then was he just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. Personally didn’t want to hear anything. Not his mate but sometimes treated as his mate or a relationship councillor for his relationship with her!

I do feel sad that I think one day he may reach out to his kids and they don’t want to know him anymore and he misses not just b days and xmas but prom, college, poss university, marriage and grand children and I think well tbh he actually doesn’t care. Xx

[Treasur]

The toughest thing about a vanisher is all the unanswered questions and the assumptions we make about their new 'happy' life. And then they pop up and we get a dollop of monster, which often makes us wish they would vanish again ironically, and we see or hear things that suggest their new 'happy' is not all that. Too many stories here for that to be uncommon. They may no longer care about what they've lost...or they might care but blame you...or they might care and pretend they don't because it hurts. In the end, if the MLCer is ever going to be an emotionally healthy adult again, they will need to make piece with the price of their 'happy', particularly the price they forced on people who loved and trusted them.

It takes a tremendously long time - and even more difficult if your children are hurting - to get to the point of realising that their new life doesn't matter because it isn't our life. The universe isn't fair and that sucks. But also there isn't a limited amount of happy, where if an MLCer looks like they are getting 'more', that means we are inevitably getting 'less'. Some things are too broken by the MLCer to ever be repaired and that includes their relationship with their children sometimes. That is their burden...but the LBS and the kids get to reform their family and keep those things which can't be bought or sold.

[heroIam]

Seems most here with vanishers are pending a D or divorced. 
This has always concerned me.  Since last contact over 2 weeks ago, I've heard nothing.  I don't know how to categorize my H.  Vanisher, touch and go, semi-vanisher?   

It is so easy to create scenarios in the head of the life that they have 'over there'.  I notice this more often in the spring/summer.  Thoughts of them on tropical vacations, one big happy family going to bbq's, camping, etc. etc.... i just torture myself and begin to dig that rabbit hole.....

Why wouldn't I or anyone think different about creating scenarios about 'over there'? We were just put in this situation with no say in the matter.   Bc when i asked him at BD, why.....his response was bc OW likes fishing and camping and a certain football team.  Wow, ok.  So that's what I think they do most of the time 'over there'.    

Then I just say 'Stop' to myself.  I don't know what's going on over there......and I need to put that focus back on me.  My decision is to stay put and live my life while in this ridiculous situation. Bc he's the one who chose to be in it, he can be the one to choose to be out.  I never wanted a separation, I wasn't even given the opportunity to have a say in it.

I remain grateful that he hasn't bowed out of the financial responsibility though. At least for now.

 

[Milly]

Treasur, great post. Hero, everything you wrote is how I feel too. It really sucks doesn't it. But as Treasur said, there's consequences for their 'happy' and of that I am certain.

[Treasur]

The most simple consequence for my XH is that, because of his choices, he has 20 years of his own life that he will never be able to look at without shame or feeling it was all a worthless horrific mistake, depending on his mindset. I can't imagine how peculiar or disorientating that would be. Every photo, every place, every song, all those small little flashes of association with friends, events, concerts, all those bits of yourself. It's a bit like mental suicide really.

He still could have left but if he had treated his life, marriage and me with care and respect, he could have kept part of it unpolluted still. But that wasn't the choice he made, He turned our life into something dark and insane, and p**sed all over every bit of it. I have no idea how anyone makes peace with that and it would be hard to live with such a big bit of your life erased.

I can feel sorrow and perhaps a little doubt, but no shame or remorse or hatred. I'm sure there will be a time when I can look at these things and smile. Even now, painful as it is, I am grateful for most of the moments of those 20 years. XH? Not so much.

[heroIam]

I agree Treasur.
I've learned though to have compassion for my H.  I also take full ownership of my shortcomings in the breakdown of our marriage.  I don't blame him for everything.  But I do blame his choice to lay down with someone else and continue to choose to be with this person. (don't know for sure if OW still around)   This is a deep cut that will definitely never go away.  But I know if I'm ever to reconcile, i have to find a way to make peace with it within myself.  I suppose even if there is no reconciliation, it's important to make some peace with it, otherwise it will slowly eat away at my spirit.

[Rising Phoenix]

I haven’t made peace with it, don’t know if I ever will. I think I’m putting a lot on the divorce. I don’t want the divorce but have no choice in the matter but as it’s going through I suppose I am pinning my hopes on that it will give me closure and peace in some form.

I can see my short comings in our marriage but working, raising a family with one child autistic and a husband on shifts I didn’t have as much time to give my h but instead of working with me and discussing any issues he had, he ran.

He ran to ow who with no children gave him all the time he wanted and boosted his ego. A vile woman who believes she had every right to my h and myself and the children have none. A woman who regularly abuses me via social media that my children can see and h does nothing about it. H has become a weak man, a man who would of died for his family bit now thinks of them as dead to him. A man who said nothing will come before his children but now puts himself and ow first. So no I have no compassion for the man he became.

I do wonder if he sits there at night thinking of us and what we are doing or what his children are up to or even if he thinks of their health! Probably not.

I have asked him to be amicable, to be a parent, to contact his children. We get nothing.

All I know is, I deal with the fall out of his actions and the impact on my kids 24/7. When your daughter weeps hat she has had to grow up to quick and that he has broken something inside her that will never be fixed you begin to go between love and hate. I love my h who he was but hate the man he is now. I can never forgive his actions towards our children or his parents who have not seen or spoken to their only grand children for over 3 yrs as it was too stressful for them. Stressful? Should of been in my shoes.
No I didn’t want the divorce but if it will give me closure and peace I welcome it in a painful way. May sound daft but it is the only way I can describe it. Xx

[heroIam]

I realize some of you deal with monstering and also have kids to raise.  I cannot even begin to imagine the difficulty and strength needed for that.  I do know in some cases divorce is best.,,,unfortunately.  But some need to go that route to protect themselves and their kids.

It's a shame how they can just destroy families by their selfish actions. 

[Rising Phoenix]

Sorry hero, I didn’t mean to sound bitter xx

[Treasur]

Don't think you sound bitter, RP...and if you feel bitter sometimes, that's ok too.

In my post-D experience of 4 days now  ...it closes down a last little bit of inconvenient uncomfortable residual 'us' hope for me, because he is no longer my H. My commitment to a H is different than to an XH. There is a bit of peace in that. Closure? Not so much, not sure divorce makes a big difference for my emotional recovery which is a separate activity. I'm hoping that when/if the financial stuff is finished it will be another bit of letting go with full NC.

Even after more than 2 years, I still find being where I am as bewildering as I did post-BD. It is simply too insane to realise that your spouse of many years is unrecognisable and unreachable by love or logic, that someone who loved you for years can act this way with no regard for the damage to you or your life. Slowly adjusting to that is an internal job. I'm not sure that external things like legal stuff provide the big mental shifts as you go along. I think each of us figure out what divorce means to us, even if it is just an absence of Ls or less paperwork!

[Rising Phoenix]

I think your right treasur, I am hoping for more peace and let go than I will actually get. I still sit here thinking I don’t believe this.
I suppose 3 yrs of cake eating did not help mine or the kids emotional welll being. Just before he vanished, I had asked him if he loved her and all he would say is there are feelings but he doesn’t know if it is love. I asked how he knew he loved me and he replied it was the only thing he was sure of. I asked what he loved about me and he said anything and everything, then he was caught having a coffee with me and then vanished. Removed Netflix from the kids he was paying for and started divorce and then changed his phone no so not even the kids can contact him. That’s the hardest bit I am trying to come to terms with.

While we are still in divorce and financials, there is still some form of connection.

Has the divorce being finalised made any difference to your xh treasur? Xx

[Treasur]

Has the divorce being finalised made any difference to your xh treasur? Xx

No idea, RP. I've heard nothing from him since it was final. I don't know why he wanted it as he's never said. I don't know what he expected it to give him so I have no idea if he feels it has delivered it.  Obviously it was important to him and he was obsessed with wanting my 'permission' to break his promise (ha ha) and apply for the Absolute before the finances were approved by the Court. He didn't need it legally and I kept saying the same thing; that it was up to him if he kept his word or not, I was just following L advice. He threw a bit of a tantrum and decided to renege on his promise. No idea why. He certainly has kept accusing me of 'stalling', despite the facts of course, and in one spew raged that I was hoping he would change his mind (even though I'd said and done the exact opposite for well over a year.)

I suppose some clue will be if he sticks to the financial agreement he signed or wants to saddle up for another battle. If all he truly wants is "to be done with all this" as he's said, then he will let my L lodge the agreement and be done. If he's really happy and excited about his new freedom as a divorced man, or his plans with psycho watchgirl, he'll want to focus his energy on his new life/wife and let every last link to the old go. If he doesn't, then obviously some part of him still wants to be angry, blame me and fight. Like Don Quixote. But I'm way past trying to mindread his thoughts or feelings because it's impossible and it doesn't change the reality of how things are.

[Tyks]

Hey,  RP. My divorce was final Feb 12. I have not heard hide nor hair from xh with regards to it.  Why would I though?  He vanished without a care in the world. 

When I had him served with the papers back in august I got a really sad email from him...  For what I have no idea.  He went on and on about how he did not regret our time together, but he did regret how it ended.  But true to classic avoider fashion he did not respond to the court so the divorce just went through.  That is the one and only time in almost two years that I have had any kind of acknowledgment from him. 

Does the divorce bring closure?  No,  not really.  I still think of him and what he did every morning when I wake up,  throughout the day and before going to bed.  But I don't miss him anymore.  My thoughts are tied to how could he,  etc.  I am at acceptance but I have not forgiven.  I can't seem to get there yet.

What has the divorce done for me?  It has made me a completely free woman who is able to move on and date if I so choose.  I am not tied to him at all.  Thankfully my kids are old enough to deal with him on their own.  I don't know how guys with small children do it. I would be an absolute basket case. 

This whole mess gets easier.  The way I cope is to put it out of my mind as much as I can.  He walked out on a pretty good life.  Were there problems?  Looking back now,  yes of course there were.  Were they fixable?  Of course they were.  Cowards run.  They don't want to face their own demons.  As everyone says here it has nothing to do with us. 

I am now excited for the future.  I have been dating a very sweet guy since February (now that I think about it our first date was on the day that my divorce was final,  unintentionally).  I now see how we should be treated. He listens to what I have to say.  He often brings me flowers.  He is excited to see me.  He appreciates who I am and he feels lucky to have me.  He also compliments me often by telling me how beautiful I am. 

I miss my old life.  There is no question.  My family is broken.  That is what makes me sad.  But I believe that I am going to have a shiny new life lol.  I want the new and improved version of my old life.  I believe that we will all have it.  It is just going to take "time"

[Rising Phoenix]

Thanks Tyks, I am at the how could he. I miss my old husband but I don’t miss the stranger he has become.

I am hoping at some point I meet a nice man that treats me well. I think that’s what we all want when you have no sign your husband will ever emerge from the hell he is in. Just sad he took us with him. Fighting my way out and forging a path for my kids to follow.

I am still waiting for mediation 2 mths after I had my initial. I have no idea why the hold up. Either avoidance as he will have to face me or something up his sleeve. Awful to think my once loving husband may have something horrible up his sleeve but that’s how ow rolls and now how he rolls.

I think that’s it, once the divorce is final although very sad there is some form of freedom. I’m not interested in dating till my divorce is final. I have no idea why. I don’t fancy dating sites either but that seems to be the main way to find a man. Although I don’t really want to find one, I want to just bump into one. Wow that’s sounds a bit Lala land fantasy but I don’t want to settle for less than I deserve.

Your guy sounds lovely Tyks with flowers and as you say someone that listens and appreciates you and he is damn lucky to have you. Glad he sees he is. Xx

[MsMedfly]

Let's see.. I'm in the middle of reviewing my littles for the AP exam so I have ZERO time to do anything, but school!

So... It's more like what haven't I accomplished in the past three years?!!! I'm a mission.. TO LIVE, PERIOD! Without excuses or regret.. He tried to take that from me.. Sadly, he lost!!

 I just celebrated my third Independence day (aka bomb drop)... I reward myself every year... This year I splurged on new Troy Burch sandals...  


Just hold on.. It's gets SOOOOOO MUCH BETTER!! And yes, the new shiny life.. It's the GREATEST!!!

[nah]

I've been so busy, I saw this a few days ago and wanted to comment.

Seems most here with vanishers are pending a D or divorced. 
This has always concerned me. 

Yes, I noticed this too.  I think the vanishers seem to Divorce or pending for several reasons.

The vanishers seems to have a need for a full clean break.  That's why they vanish in the first place (plus guilt,... etc, it's all tied together).

They think a divorce will help that clean break.  (It really doesn't but they tend to be rather stupid, aren't they?)

They seem to want to show the perception that they are more decisive than the clingers, boomerangs, wallowers.... that is just more of the smoke and mirrors... it's just a show.  A divorce will help with that show. 

I think these divorces also are a factor to why the vanishers have less reconciliation.  Again, it's the LBS.  Once most get divorce and hasn't heard a word, we assume it's over and move on.  We tend to be a "catch" out in the midlife dating world (most of us have been under glass for 25+ years, so "less miles on the chevy"... if you know what I mean).  Many of us find another relationship and the MLCer realizes that we are no longer an option.

Since last contact over 2 weeks ago, I've heard nothing.  I don't know how to categorize my H.  Vanisher, touch and go, semi-vanisher?   

2 weeks? 

That's barely a sneeze in the vanishing world.

I haven't heard from The Leaver since before Christmas, but I know he's out there, getting ready to pop up like some kind of infection that just won't completely disappear.   

[Nas]

I've been so busy, I saw this a few days ago and wanted to comment.

Seems most here with vanishers are pending a D or divorced. 
This has always concerned me. 

Yes, I noticed this too.  I think the vanishers seem to Divorce or pending for several reasons.

The vanishers seems to have a need for a full clean break.  That's why they vanish in the first place (plus guilt,... etc, it's all tied together).

They think a divorce will help that clean break.  (It really doesn't but they tend to be rather stupid, aren't they?)

They seem to want to show the perception that they are more decisive than the clingers, boomerangs, wallowers.... that is just more of the smoke and mirrors... it's just a show.  A divorce will help with that show. 

Mine is showing he's just much more of a coward by vanishing and changing his phone number without divorcing. Or maybe he's just a true narcissist and so diabolical that he was able to almost 20 years completely suppressing all narc traits and hiding it amazingly well. (I know narcs can hide it, but to be a narcissist on the level he seems to be now, it would be impossible for something not to have slipped out over the past two decades.  But really, the only explanation that makes sense for someone to disappear the way he has at the time he has is that he's a narcissist and he chose to cut me off completely because I have lost all my value as a source of supply.)

I think these divorces also are a factor to why the vanishers have less reconciliation.  Again, it's the LBS.  Once most get divorce and hasn't heard a word, we assume it's over and move on.  We tend to be a "catch" out in the midlife dating world (most of us have been under glass for 25+ years, so "less miles on the chevy"... if you know what I mean).  Many of us find another relationship and the MLCer realizes that we are no longer an option.

At this point, if I didn't have cancer, I would be finding someone else. I'm ready to have someone good in my life.
Every silent day that passes,
every day I deal with chemo side effects and know he's living a new life,
every time I remember how I didn't have kids because he didn't want them and now he lives with a woman who has 3 kids
every time I see him trying to get this one particular woman's attention on Twitter, tweeting using lots of exclamation points as if he hasn't got a care in the world,
every time I see him praise another woman on Twitter about how classy she is for raising money for breast cancer,
every time I think about how I'm destitute in part because of his financial infidelity before he left and how he spent over 2 years insisting he had every intention of paying me but then never did and ultimately disappeared,

every time I think about those things and many others, I realize that this is who he's chosen to be and the sad reality is there's almost no way back from where he's chosen to go. 

Since last contact over 2 weeks ago, I've heard nothing.  I don't know how to categorize my H.  Vanisher, touch and go, semi-vanisher?   

2 weeks? 

That's barely a sneeze in the vanishing world.

I haven't heard from The Leaver since before Christmas, but I know he's out there, getting ready to pop up like some kind of infection that just won't completely disappear.   

I haven't heard from mine for 9 months and it's dawned on me that I probably will never hear from him again.

[Rising Phoenix]

I've been so busy, I saw this a few days ago and wanted to comment.

Seems most here with vanishers are pending a D or divorced. 
This has always concerned me. 

Yes, I noticed this too.  I think the vanishers seem to Divorce or pending for several reasons.

The vanishers seems to have a need for a full clean break.  That's why they vanish in the first place (plus guilt,... etc, it's all tied together).

They think a divorce will help that clean break.  (It really doesn't but they tend to be rather stupid, aren't they?)

They seem to want to show the perception that they are more decisive than the clingers, boomerangs, wallowers.... that is just more of the smoke and mirrors... it's just a show.  A divorce will help with that show. 

Mine is showing he's just much more of a coward by vanishing and changing his phone number without divorcing. Or maybe he's just a true narcissist and so diabolical that he was able to almost 20 years completely suppressing all narc traits and hiding it amazingly well. (I know narcs can hide it, but to be a narcissist on the level he seems to be now, it would be impossible for something not to have slipped out over the past two decades.  But really, the only explanation that makes sense for someone to disappear the way he has at the time he has is that he's a narcissist and he chose to cut me off completely because I have lost all my value as a source of supply.)

I think these divorces also are a factor to why the vanishers have less reconciliation.  Again, it's the LBS.  Once most get divorce and hasn't heard a word, we assume it's over and move on.  We tend to be a "catch" out in the midlife dating world (most of us have been under glass for 25+ years, so "less miles on the chevy"... if you know what I mean).  Many of us find another relationship and the MLCer realizes that we are no longer an option.

At this point, if I didn't have cancer, I would be finding someone else. I'm ready to have someone good in my life.
Every silent day that passes,
every day I deal with chemo side effects and know he's living a new life,
every time I remember how I didn't have kids because he didn't want them and now he lives with a woman who has 3 kids
every time I see him trying to get this one particular woman's attention on Twitter, tweeting using lots of exclamation points as if he hasn't got a care in the world,
every time I see him praise another woman on Twitter about how classy she is for raising money for breast cancer,
every time I think about how I'm destitute in part because of his financial infidelity before he left and how he spent over 2 years insisting he had every intention of paying me but then never did and ultimately disappeared,

every time I think about those things and many others, I realize that this is who he's chosen to be and the sad reality is there's almost no way back from where he's chosen to go. 

Since last contact over 2 weeks ago, I've heard nothing.  I don't know how to categorize my H.  Vanisher, touch and go, semi-vanisher?   

2 weeks? 

That's barely a sneeze in the vanishing world.

I haven't heard from The Leaver since before Christmas, but I know he's out there, getting ready to pop up like some kind of infection that just won't completely disappear.   

I haven't heard from mine for 9 months and it's dawned on me that I probably will never hear from him again.

Not heard from mine in 9 months except one email to say he is happy to take kids out and always has been but then never contacts them and changed his mobile no so no one can contact him.

Mine is divorcing me for initially unreasonable behaviour that I didn’t listen to him and ow did ( no mention of him falling into another woman’s V@g!n@) but after 10 returns and his complete personality change I had found my back bone and fought back so now 2 yr separation and he pays. I don’t see why I should pay for his divorce.
I still have down days and in my mind all the time but mainly how could he and I don’t believe him or who is he!

I think he has gone through every phase before vanisher, clinging boomerang to clinger, touch and go to cake eater then vanisher.
I was hoping the karma bus was coming from ow social media last week but doesn’t look like it now. 😠
I think your spot on nas, done too much to recover any form of reconciliation. H has hurt our kids beyond words let alone me.

Nah, I love the way you say it as it is. Xx

[DianaDeBelflor]

Hm... I haven't heard from mine since April 14th, when he texted me to let me know that he met with his sister (after avoiding her like the plague) and lied to her that he is going on a 12-month deployment.

Haven't heard from him since. We will see each other when I go home in May, but I doubt he will contact me in the 9 months that he's going to be deployed.

Does this count as a vanisher?

[needinput]

Diana, your H could go through different phases as RP mentioned above or he could just maintain one phase. I think most vanishers have an on-and-off communication style but with much longer time period between contact. You will be able to better differentiate the styles in retrospect.

[Nas]

Diana, It's hard to say since it's only been a short while since your last contact. 
(p.s. just a little note, is your username your real name? If so, you might consider changing it as this is not a private forum.)

I was reading through this thread and thinking how many of us have vanishers who didn't start out as vanishers.

I think if mine had vanished right away, I might not be questioning so much still 3 years on.

Also, if he hadn't vanished right after I got cancer, making it look as though he ran because I became "defective" (or more defective, in his eyes) or something.

And if he hadn't shared a few details of his "secret" new life in our last actual text conversation in late May and then acknowledged my birthday for a change this year and then immediately disappeared. If he had been monstering or cruel or we'd had some big blow up, it might make more sense.

But no, it was him starting to initiate contact for no reason in the spring, sending me pics of my dog, then opening up a tiny bit, then me getting sick and then...poof, he's gone.

I replied to his birthday text the day after he sent it with just a "thank you" and then, as all the advice says, I left him alone and didn't contact him at all.  So I have no idea when he actually changed his phone number.  I think it was sometime in the fall but the fact remains that I haven't heard from him since my birthday 9 months ago and he did change his contact information.

I do wonder if the death of one of his old high school buddies in September (opiate overdose) caused him to spiral and start replay all over again or something. Who knows.

[Treasur]

Well, Nas, I guess you can always contact him via Twitter right? The public nature of that is a practical consequence of his choices, I guess.

But please slap down the bit of your head that is saying 'he vanished because I'm 'defective'...no, he vanished because he's defective.

[DianaDeBelflor]

Diana, It's hard to say since it's only been a short while since your last contact. 
(p.s. just a little note, is your username your real name? If so, you might consider changing it as this is not a private forum.)

I have a hard time figuring this man out. When he dropped the BD, he said that he wanted to be friends with me, but he goes on to treat me the way he did a year ago - ignoring and being hateful when we are in contact. He acts as if I was the one who hurt him.

(LOL No! Diana de Belflor is the pretty lady in my avatar pic - she is an entirely fictional character)

I was reading through this thread and thinking how many of us have vanishers who didn't start out as vanishers.

I think if mine had vanished right away, I might not be questioning so much still 3 years on.

Also, if he hadn't vanished right after I got cancer, making it look as though he ran because I became "defective" (or more defective, in his eyes) or something.

And if he hadn't shared a few details of his "secret" new life in our last actual text conversation in late May and then acknowledged my birthday for a change this year and then immediately disappeared. If he had been monstering or cruel or we'd had some big blow up, it might make more sense.

But no, it was him starting to initiate contact for no reason in the spring, sending me pics of my dog, then opening up a tiny bit, then me getting sick and then...poof, he's gone.

I replied to his birthday text the day after he sent it with just a "thank you" and then, as all the advice says, I left him alone and didn't contact him at all.  So I have no idea when he actually changed his phone number.  I think it was sometime in the fall but the fact remains that I haven't heard from him since my birthday 9 months ago and he did change his contact information.

I do wonder if the death of one of his old high school buddies in September (opiate overdose) caused him to spiral and start replay all over again or something. Who knows.

Sounds like someone who pops in and out. Not a boomerang, per say, but not a vanisher either. Do you think you'd be happier if he just vanished? I'm beginning to suspect that I might be.

I'm also 90% sure that he will stop all contact with his family. If he changes his phone number, he will never let them know. Going forward, whatever contact I will have with him will be more than what his mother will have. Isn't it sad?

[Nas]

Well, Nas, I guess you can always contact him via Twitter right? The public nature of that is a practical consequence of his choices, I guess.

But please slap down the bit of your head that is saying 'he vanished because I'm 'defective'...no, he vanished because he's defective.

Thanks Treasur.  Yeah, I meant that's what he is thinking about me, not what I think about me. 

As far as Twitter goes, I'll admit it did piss me off this weekend (as I was battling chemo side effects) to see him tweeting with all kinds of exclamation points as if he was having a blast for himself.  But still, watching him try to get this one woman's attention has been sort of amusing.  I'm not sure what his intent is because it's not outright flirting or flattery, he's more continuing to try to show her that he's "on her side" in this twitter war she's in with another woman. (Both women are like d list media personalities, not well known outside of their local areas.)

So it's kind of interesting to watch. He works for a very important employer now (as he seems to be very proud of and thinks somehow it makes him important) and this very important employer follows him on Twitter. And yet he doesn't seem to have a problem tweeting to this woman and calling her rival a word most people would say is the most despicable word you can call a woman. I actually just sort of felt sorry for him when I saw that one, because it is just so bizarre a) that he's so invested in commenting on this feud between two women he doesn't even know, and b) that he would show such disrespect towards a woman and use that kind of language even knowing it might show up in the feeds of all the "super duper important" people he works for.

[20thcenturygirl]

So how do you define a vanisher?

I have a horrible feeling mine will be if he goes through with his divorce.
 BD was October 2017 and he left after Christmas.  He has been travelling around on permanent vacation with his OW since.  I saw him at an event for our daughter but other than that a couple of phone calls and e-mails to do with finances but he has never asked how I am let alone what I am doing!

Is this early days and too early to tell?

 

[nah]

So how do you define a vanisher?

Need InPut worded it perfectly....

Diana, your H could go through different phases as RP mentioned above or he could just maintain one phase. I think most vanishers have an on-and-off communication style but with much longer time period between contact. You will be able to better differentiate the styles in retrospect.

There are very few real true vanishers on this forum.  I think there might be 2 true LBSers of real vanishers that follow this thread.  A true vanisher completely disappears without any means of contact.  Years will go by and the LBSer really has no idea if their spouse is dead or alive... zero contact.

Like Need Input wrote, most of us on here have on-and-off communication style... I can message or call my ex-husband right now, and he will answer.  Still, I have not had any contact for about 4-5 months now, and that is normal for us. 

Its much too early for you to determine what kind of contact you will have with your husband and contact could change anytime.  I have had more contact and real conversations with The Leaver years after our divorce was final.

[CallingHeart]

From what I've seen on here there's a spectrum of vanishers

I'd call mine a "True Vanisher".  Ghost describes him because thoughts of him haunt me.  Not in a bad way, but in a way that someone who was abandoned by their spouse would be haunted.  I wonder if that ever goes away.  I'm not sure it will.  Zero contact for years.  No phone contact, no email, no text.  He flipped the "done" switch and blew up our marriage with BD.  He filed for divorce a year after BD & it went fast  (but then again it was my attorney who took the swift action once his divorce was filed).  There are some small clues about him as I still have online access to his bank account. But from his perspective I was cut from his life.  A very clean break for him.  firetrucking vanisher   

Then there are the low-contact vanisher types.   They seem gone, but there is the occasional contact / anchor check. 

[Tyks]

If my xh and I didn't have a 15 year old there would be absolutely  no contact.  Contact is rare even with our d15. If I called him right now or texted him he would answer.  I asked him about that once and he said he was worried that something was wrong with the kids lol.  Our kids are 19 and 15 and very capable of contacting him themselves

Zero communication.  He left and he was done,  period. 

[CallingHeart]

Every now and then I sign his email on the local wine bar email list. 
This little wine bar is walking distance from where we lived while married.
They keep a sign up list in the foyer by the restrooms, so if Im bored while waiting....
I figure an email from them can serve as an occasional reminder... 

[nah]

I figure an email from them can serve as an occasional reminder... 

Communication with the vanishers is a special kind of dance, isn't it?

That's actually a good idea, CH, since your vanisher is extreme.

Let's face it,... no communication = no relationship.  Now I'm not talking a few weeks, or even a few months,...when I still wanted a relationship with The Leaver, if we started to go to about 4-5 months w/o communication, I would sneak something in.  Nothing too drastic more like a "happy birthday" or a nice note on Father's Day.  On Christmas I sent him something his grandmother made and he left at the house, and yes, sometimes I "mistakenly" butt dialed him (that one weirdly worked, we talked for like an hour b/c he called me back).  I believe the first few years they cycle too, so a little anchor check on our side will sometimes work, and sometimes not.

This kind of communication will NOT work if it is overused or if it's all about sending "truth darts".  It will only work if used sparingly and with very low expectations.   

I believe this is why many (not all but many) LBSers do get to decide how the story will end.  Even though The Leaver was very low contact, as time went on our contact was easier and more friendly.  I feel if I attacked him too much and too often he would have ran harder.  I wasn't perfect, though, and many times my games backfired.  Still over the years, he did seem to draw closer to me very slowly. So slowly that over time I didn't want to play anymore.  I know without a doubt if I called him right now, he would meet me for lunch this week.  Problem is, I just don't want to.  The early days, that's ALL I wanted, just to see him, talk to him, try to reason with him.  He wasn't ready. 

Now I'm done.

[Treasur]

I think I feel now, simply, that nothing my XH might conceivably say would serve me at all. It's sad to lose someone you loved this way but there is a point for many of us, as Nah says, when it just goes too far and for too long.

[nah]

I'm not sure about everybody else, but I didn't get the typical "monster" that many LBSers talk about...

We don't have many conversations with the vanishers, and maybe that's why...

Mine did the typical "ILYBINILWY" and things like I'm good at making HIM feel guilty or I made everyone hate him.  When I responded with I can't make anybody feel anything, he basically shut up.

He never called me names, never said he never loved me or anything like that.  In fact, HE more than once blamed himself,... said we had a great marriage, great memories, I was a great wife and mother but HE changed, He is F'd up in the head, that HE needs anxiety meds, etc.

So as strange as this sounds, yes, he cheated, abandoned, divorced me and married her BUT... he never attacked me personally, never called me names, never talked sh!t about me behind my back other than when cornered he will say, "WE were on a different page".  Most people say he just doesn't say anything.

So I really don't hate him, as strange as this sounds I b/c we had so little "bad" interactions (we very rarely fought, he just disappeared), so neither one of us said anything that we could never come back from, the image of sex with another really doesn't bother me like it does to many others (maybe b/c I now have done more than him in that department), it's just that we are different people.

Five years of different experiences.  He's no longer someone I am proud to be connected to,... he lost his job, his integrity, his swagger, his confidence.  I see him as a coward, kind of old and boring.  He seems afraid of his own shadow, letting this young pathetic girl lead him around.  I like a man with a little edge, someone I can count on, someone with confidence, someone that is a bit of a challenge. 

So for me, it's not the things he did, even to me.  It's the person he has become.

If I thought he was the same man, I probably would still be standing.

[Thunder]

You know nah, your H sounded a lot like mine.  Never Monstered or called me names, etc., I would bet if he hadn't found this girl he possibly would have come out of his crisis and been ok.

Having an alienator in their ear just complicated things so much.   

[nah]

Yes, but mine was the type to find someone, if he didn't find this one, it just would have been another.

He was in a band, big boss with money, and access to many women.

Even this alienator he has, she's never said a peep to me.  I've seen her twice, she just turns her back and looks at the ground like she's afraid of me.  .   She's not as crazy as some of the ones I read about on here. 
Of course, she's pathetic, they are all pathetic, just not over the scales like some of them.

I stil have a strong feeling, he's not done.  There will be more drama in the future,... I can feel it.

[Thunder]

Hey, mine looked nah, trust me.  He is also a very good looking guy who women are always checking out.  He should have had no problem getting women, it just never happened for what ever reason.  Maybe wrong place, wrong time  idk

But it could have turned out completely different.

More drama in the future  Ya think?   

[Treasur]

I'm not sure about everybody else, but I didn't get the typical "monster" that many LBSers talk about...
We don't have many conversations with the vanishers, and maybe that's why...

Same for me, xh said nothing much but that he felt nothing, was ill and wanted me not to give up on him/us....and then announced that divorce was the only option by text. I only recently got a bit of monster spew linked to his divorce. Mostly he's said nothing to me about anything. I assume he's said little or more negative things to others.

Five years of different experiences.  He's no longer someone I am proud to be connected to,...
So for me, it's not the things he did, even to me.  It's the person he has become.
If I thought he was the same man, I probably would still be standing.

Less time for me, but you've put your finger right on how I feel, Nah, as you often do. When I stopped believing that the man I knew was still in there and looked at who he is now...standing made no sense at all to me.

I'd like to mourn my H gracefully...just need XH to stop d!cking around and go away. 
It's funny because there was a time when I wished my H cared enough about my existence to cling or even monster...until I met monster.

[nah]

I'd like to mourn my H gracefully...just need XH to stop d!cking around and go away. 

Time will tell... mine just keeps popping up. It’s been a few months, so he’s due.

Lately, I stay generally neutral, just to see what he will do.

Kind of like a MLC experiment. Must be the scientist in me. 

[Milly]

I'm a bit like Thunder, I think that if my H had not crossed paths with this very determined OW, he might have got through his crisis. My H too is very good looking and worked away every week since we married but never ever cheated before. In fact, I heard through his first lady lawyer, who used to go out with him and friends in Milan his work town, that all the women looked at him and couldn't believe he would be alone and not make a move.

I feel I'm at a point where how I behave right now might determine where my H heads next. I just posted so I won't repeat here.

[Shocked]

Thanks Nah for your comforting words! I have not had any contact since my Ds graduation last May. Even then I never saw him and he left early so not to interact. Is he a coward or avoider or a vanisher? He’s still in Lala land. And I’m better off not hearing about his crazy.

[Nas]

Thanks Nah for your comforting words! I have not had any contact since my Ds graduation last May. Even then I never saw him and he left early so not to interact. Is he a coward or avoider or a vanisher? He’s still in Lala land. And I’m better off not hearing about his crazy.

Sounds like quite a coward to me. 

[stillbaffled]

Thanks Nah for your comforting words! I have not had any contact since my Ds graduation last May. Even then I never saw him and he left early so not to interact. Is he a coward or avoider or a vanisher? He’s still in Lala land. And I’m better off not hearing about his crazy.

Sounds like quite a coward to me.

He's a first cousin to my MLCer!  I've had one text message since last August.  He asked if he could go on my property to get something he wanted! 

[nah]

Is he a coward or avoider or a vanisher?

He's like the rest,,, He avoids and vanishes b/c he's a coward.

A cow-void-sher.   

[Rising Phoenix]

Emailed the twat to say divorce papers ok to send and if I didn’t hear from him regarding the remainder of his belongings I will need to get rid of them as work to be done on shed roof. I also wished him well for his future and I hope it is everything he hoped and dreamed it would be. Ow Facebook response according to daughter within minutes was “ life is amazing when you don’t surround yourself with pieces of s**t”.
So what do I do now? I am sick to the back teeth of it. Xx

[nah]

So what do I do now?

Haha.... smile and go on with your day knowing that you taking the high road is obviously driving her insane.

[ChrissYAH]

"mine' is also a vanisher, my daughter and her boyfriend went to see a comedy show this evening, my D's boyfriend saw the loon there, the min he saw my sil to be he ran off and disappeared. was def there with his hag, why disappear if you haven't done anything wrong? 

[nah]

why disappear if you haven't done anything wrong? 

Exactly.  That's his problem.

[Treasur]

Stay away from FB even secondhand, RP? Too many crazy folks use it instead of having a real life...

[Rising Phoenix]

I don’t do face book but the kids do. They try to have a peek and see what their father is up to but mainly they got awful quotes. My sister want to comment but I won’t let her. No point as that what the Slapper wants is a reaction from me and I won’t give it. Xx

[needinput]

Emailed the twat to say divorce papers ok to send and if I didn’t hear from him regarding the remainder of his belongings I will need to get rid of them as work to be done on shed roof. I also wished him well for his future and I hope it is everything he hoped and dreamed it would be. Ow Facebook response according to daughter within minutes was “ life is amazing when you don’t surround yourself with pieces of s**t”.
So what do I do now? I am sick to the back teeth of it. Xx

The OW just confessed that she is a POS and put her sick state of mind on a display. Everytime I read something like this coming from the OW's mouth initially shocks me and makes my blood boil that such people exist on this planet but then if she sees nothing wrong with contributing to destroying a family then there is nothing surprising about her words either. These OWs are mentally sick - a nice match for our MLC H's. I am confident one day when the MLCer "wakes up", he would want to puke. I highly doubt the MLCer will achieve his eternal delusional happiness.

I used to have so much anger after BD because I felt the OW stabbed me (the innocent wife) in the back and I felt like she was ripping apart one of my organs but I couldn't protect myself in any way. After she found out I knew about her, she kept manipulating my H to divorce me but in very subtle ways and my H was oblivious to her actions. I felt so helpless. I never hated another human being in my life. I had so much hatred towards her I wanted to cause her pain. I felt that all the pain she caused me, she deserves to feel one day.

I am glad I never contacted her while I was furious because she needs to be treated as nonexistent. The relationship with the OW will explode by itself one day but it takes time. Do not acknowledge her existence.

[Rising Phoenix]

I have acknowledged her in the past but not this last 10 mths other than to say I don’t blame her any longer as she believes the lies he has told her and was in the dark more than me. I placed it firmly on him. I do blame her aswell as it takes 2 to tango but was not giving her the satisfaction of letting them know that.

My sil has said not much I can do about her posts and ignore. Easier said than done when I can’t stop kids looking. I try to just laugh it off when kids say something. S15 says it’s cyber bullying and to get my solicitor to send a letter but I don’t want to as she will then have the reaction she craves.

Just need be patient and get to mediation and see what he has to say for himself.

Sil has offered us a holiday in her caravan so that is good and she has not spoken to h for 15 yrs as he holds a grudge for a long long time!!

He has been informed the kids want to change their surname so he won’t be happy about that but that is their decision. I will go with whatever surname they want which at the minute is my maiden name and they already have that as double barrelled surname. S15 says he sees no one with the surname of his father so why keep it. He has a point. Xx

[Shocked]

https://youtu.be/h-rRgpPbR5w

I’d like to hear all your reactions to this YouTube video.

[Rising Phoenix]

I think it’s goid for lbs but I don’t think it would get through to a mlc brain xx

[Bewildered survivor]

I used to have so much anger after BD because I felt the OW stabbed me (the innocent wife) in the back and I felt like she was ripping apart one of my organs but I couldn't protect myself in any way. After she found out I knew about her, she kept manipulating my H to divorce me but in very subtle ways and my H was oblivious to her actions. I felt so helpless. I never hated another human being in my life. I had so much hatred towards her I wanted to cause her pain. I felt that all the pain she caused me, she deserves to feel one day.

I am glad I never contacted her while I was furious because she needs to be treated as nonexistent. The relationship with the OW will explode by itself one day but it takes time. Do not acknowledge her existence.

needinput

This is where i'm at now re OW.  I have not contacted her any way which i'm proud of.   What gets me through is that I have planned exactly what I will say to her- but not until i'm in a stronger position and their sick fantasy life is blown apart. It will feels so good then.  I dont plan to say anything nasty - in fact I would thank her and say i prayed for her as she is a broken person (that would get to her the most).  I refuse to engage in any games although sometimes I wonder if she thinks im scared. The only thing is protecting my kids from meeting her- that's why shes so angry.  What I can see is she is ruining it all for herself- by plastering and flaunting things on FB is not going to win her any points with his family or for his business reputation or anything else.  How humiliating for him?  At this point they are both trying their best to provoke me- he actually rang from her phone number from their holiday without withholding the number- almost like he wants me to contact her.

I hope your right and it does blow up in their faces- yes it takes time but I pray every day that today will be the day!

[Rising Phoenix]

I pray that also. The qualities are every day. H has managed to reduce his maintenance. I did the ultimate no no and rang him at work. He refused to take my call. I really want to send his mairemabace back and tell him where to shove it but unfortunately I need it. Xx

[Treasur]

The emotions re ow/om are understandable but tbh, I've always seen how much space ow has in my head as a measure of my own emotional health. Partly because I can't do anything about it and have never seen ow as the root cause of my then H's behaviour or free will. Partly because most ow like drama and 'lose' if we refuse to play, and actions speak louder than words. Mostly because I'm too fine a human to wallow in a disordered pile of poo. It serves me better to just say 'no, not my circus.'

[Rising Phoenix]

H has finally done his mediation but wants separate rooms. I have said no as takes longer and costs more. Too much of a coward to face me. Xx

[Rising Phoenix]

So I emailed because I can and I actually got a reply!
“I have stated all along I would love to see them but you told me they despise me and need to be left alone, which is what I did. You also said it has to be their  decision to see me but at no point have they asked. I am trying , although you don’t see it , to do things with as little argument as possible.

I would gladly see them but I am all too aware our differences seem to prevail which puts even more burden on them, you are all too quick to say I have ditched them, you couldn’t be further from the truth but we always seem to come to loggerheads and it becomes about us again, they would need their own time.
At no point have I got angry about them changing their name, to be honest that is up to them and who am I to dispute this.
Money has been a problem as I am now up to nearly £5000 in solicitors fees .

Please see it from my point I don’t know what to do about presents, whatever I try doesn’t seem to be the right thing even down to the cards being inappropriate or told the bank account I set up has a time limit.

I honestly don’t know what to do with regards to K and G as everything I do seems to be wrong and this is said with all sincerity. This is why I thought Mediation would help so we can't get embroiled in our own issues.

If the children do want to see me I would love to be there and you should not be doing this on your own but it has to be achievable and has to be about them not us.”


Well that was a surprise but also it doesn’t sound like him at all so I wonder if he actually replied or ow did. Any thoughts? Xx

[Rising Phoenix]

My reply, sorry it’s long.
Xx

At no point have I said I want to discuss us since you made your decision in August.  I may have in the past but I haven’t this time.  There is no us as you have made your decision. I didn’t say they needed to be left alone but they are hurting and it may take time for them to reply but yes they do feel you don’t want to see them and how are they supposed to contact you when they have no phone no for you. I wanted you to keep trying or just turn up somewhere where we were and go from there.
I know solicitor fees are high but I have asked you to speak to me to try and save fees as they are horrendous as are mine.
No I didn’t want this but it is what it is and I have accepted that.
All you had to say was I can’t do a present yet as money tight but will get something when I can and I would of explained that to them.
I didn’t want it to be this horrible. I don’t want to try and change your mind as futile. I just want happier kids.
I booked mediation to try to get things sorted but again you don’t want to even look at me and it’s costs an extra £48 a session and takes much longer. I really can’t afford that. I have had to buy a new cooker that is still sat in the dining room as now need new electric box apparently. I have had intermittent hot water since before Xmas as I need a new boiler and had to get a new washing machine. I buy reduced food most of the time. £48 as you know is a lot.
As for the differences I only see you not wanting to lay eyes on me or our kids and cut us dead. I know that is prob how it should be for me but breaks my heart for the kids. I don’t want arguments. How can I see your point of view when you won’t even speak to me. No your right I don’t see how things are for you but how can I with no response to anything.
All I wanted to do was speak to you and try salvage some form of normality. I was hoping save fees by coming to agreements and then just formalising via solicitors instead of how many emails between them. Only ones that benefit are the solicitors. Certainly not us.
I’m glad you feel you made the right decision as the last thing I would want is to be married to a man that I can’t give what he wants and would only make him miserable. Why would I want that for either of us. I do hope you are happy and I am sorry I couldn’t give you that. My focus is the kids and as I say to salvage something to make life easier for them.
Xmas and b Day was hard here and I was sincere when asked if you wanted to see them xmas day. As I thought perfect opportunity to build a bridge. The xmas cards did say an end date, honestly. We panicked a bit. G bought manga books off amazon and K’s  was on games. G writes stories in an app for people to read. If I could turn back the clock and have it as when you used to come round and spend time with them I would but I know that will never happen.
I feel at some point we need to see each other and talk. Clear the air and move forward positively. I understand if you don’t want to do that.  I will leave with you.

Thanks for replying. I do appreciate it.

[nah]

RP, how old are your kids?  Are they old enough to have a relationship with their father w/o communicating through you?

[Rising Phoenix]

Yes they are but they won’t as he hasn’t bothered with them and changed his tel no. S15 and d13. They won’t make first move as they have tried alot during last 3.5 yrs and he is either busy or ignored them and finally changed his no so they can’t evrn if they wanted to. They won’t email him as they don’t see why demoted as they call it to an email to their own father. Xx

[nah]

Well if he changed his number than they have a good point v

[Rising Phoenix]

My son once contacted via Xbox as he was online and his father immediately went off line and has since blocked the kids from being able to contact on Xbox or PS4 also or ow has as she is now apparently a gamer. H wants kids to chase him but they have in the past. If he was with ow he would ignore a call or text until she not about. Why? The kids do not see why they should have to resort to an email to once again be ignored.
I don’t know why I can’t just let go and ignore his no interest in his kids . I think it’s because of something a friend said. Her husband dropped dead at 45 and left her with an 18 mth old and 3 yr old. She said her kids have no choice in not seeing their father and their father did not choose to leave them and never see them again and yet here is a man  my h who chooses not see his or makes it difficult to see them. Who puts an awful ow before his children. Is his life that wonderful with her that he doesn’t need his kids. Xx

[Rising Phoenix]

Any thoughts on why he replied? Is it cuz I hit a nerve? If he wants to never have anything to do with me why reply? Or is it really a reply about kids. Thrown me. It is extremely rare I get any reply. I 3 replies to any emails in 10 mths xx

[Thunder]

Rising, just reading his reply it does sound like it is about the kids.

I hope somehow he can try to contact them, for their sake.

I'm not sure why it is important for you to face him and do this without Mediation.
I mean I get the money part but why not just email, or mail him what you would want or expect in a settlement and have him give you his response in an email or letter?

It would keep the emotions out of it and give you a starting point.
Also you could ask him to give the kids his phone number if he wants to talk or see them.  Let him decide.

[Treasur]

A simple first step does sound like suggesting he text the kids' his new phone number, assuming he has their numbers still? Step yourself away from having to fix or coordinate it. If he calls them or asks them to text him, he does. If he doesn't, it's just Mr Sadz word blah 

[nah]

I honestly think it’s as simple as they cycle as much as we do.

Sometimes I want to respond to him and sometimes I just don’t.


Plus RP, and this is just a guess....

My vanisher wanted to avoid and disappear... I think yours was forced

Yes, like the rest of them, yours is a coward BUT,... it seems to me yours was given an ultimatum, so he probably tosses and turns at night bc he WANTS both worlds.  Of course he will play victim and justify his actions. I don’t think you heard the last of him.

[Rising Phoenix]

Thanks everyone, I have asked him to give Kids tel no and emailed to do financials but I don’t think he is allowed to have any contact and I do wonder if avoiding me as it’s easier for him. He won’t give Kids no as ow wont like it as she has taken out a phone contract to monitor his every move. She has done this before so he secretly had an old phone he used to contact me and kids on. I don’t know how we can be at loggerheads and argue as not seen or spoken to him for 10  Mths!

I do think I’m still a threat to her from what I’ve been told of her fb quotes as if I wasn’t she wouldn’t need to bother. I came off fb and don’t do any social media. I was sick of it.

Getting a response has made me feel quite ill and tearful today. My head is banging. If he is happy see kids then fine but I can count on one hand how many times he has rung them in 3 yrs, I want him to face me to see me and look 👀 to his eyes and see what emotion if any is there and because while he doesn’t he keeps this image if me as the big bad wife. oh well we shall see. Xx

[Treasur]

Well, I guess that's his problem and choice - he contacts his kids or he doesn't right? But if he whines again, you can honestly say you've done what you can and it's up to him. Isn't it extraordinary how controlled some of these guys are by ow? I'd never have treated my H that way....having said that, maybe now I know he's a lying cheat...

[living with Hope]

To me it sounds like he is still the victim, blaming you , them and not looking inward.  I think you got a response because the kids must be some kind of nerve and he needed to project the self hatred away.

I have a vanisher that his OW is telling anyone who will listen how I am have poisoned the two kids against him.  My kids are young adults and decided on their own at their own timeline when to have gone no contact with him.  I have one child who sees him still and that child sees him for all the wrong reasons (milks his Father for money, is terrified his Father will kill himself if he doesn't see him ...)And we all tend to pay when that child spends time with his Father.  He becomes secretive and moody or he throws nonsense at us out of thin air or he slowly lets us hear the details and it ends up hurting our feelings somehow.

I would rather the kids at this point as much as i want them to have a Father. I want them to have a Father who is giving, kind and put his children first.  Not one that only sees when his OW is gone and he is alone. Not one who doesn't seem to take any interest in their lives and doesn't say things that are twisted truths that start issues within the family dynamic. 

He lost his connection to the last child when I stopped trying to keep the family unit together.  When I let the kids choose for themselves. 

[Rising Phoenix]

I agree lih
Although a polite email it was still my fault he doesn’t see them and the kids fault for not contacting him and that it is better to have s father that is interested in them . I need to let go of trying to be the fixer, as I think it was either nah or thunder said.

I wonder if I class email as a touch and go 😂😂 prob not.

I’ve decided I need replace my car and IM CHOOSING ONE FOR THE FIRST TIME,  MYSELF ON MY OWN THAT WILL BE MINE! YIPPEE
AND IT WILL BE BRIGHT RED! 😍😁👍

[nah]

I would call it an “anchor check”. Funny how they are all so similar that we have terms for their behaviors.  Kind of like when monkeys eat bugs off each other and we call it “grooming “. 

Congrats on the car, I bought my first car by myself when I was 48 yrs old.   

[living with Hope]

I have not had any contact with my vanisher in gosh...I have lost count.  I saw him from accross a giant hall in the fall and that is it in two plus years.  He has a relationship with one of 3 young adult kids. 

He is in a serious relationship and as far as I am aware the one child has refused to meet.  He wants that child to keep his interaction with him hidden and a secret. We are not divorced and we have no separation agreement.  I figured this OW would not stand for this as this one refuses to be hidden and wants her rightful place as the Queen bee.

But so far, nothing. He just stalls and wastes money so I stopped pursuing a year ago.

Well the latest news out of his camp is trickling out and the OW has waged a full out campaign to make him the victim and me the evil, pathetic woman who loves him and is waiting patiently for him to return.   I have turned his children against him and that I do it because I can't have him.

I don't care what she has to say as we don't run in the same circles. But now she is trying to friend my friends on social media and spreading these lies to them.    Some are not interested and some are amused.  But a few have listened to her out of curiousity and now they are questioning why I haven't "moved on" and seeing validity to her points.  When I push back put it on him also...why is he not divorcing me, why did he stall each time I tried to get an agreement, why does he not see his other two children and why does he see the one?  I was told to be realistic and how it looks to the outside world. grrrrr....

I don't know how to answer this questioning anymore.   I am not standing.  I loved him.  He didn't love me.  I tried to help him, I tried to keep my marriage, he didn't want to.  I got the message loud and clear.  I am stil processing all that I have been through.  My heart has been shattered many times over during this whole ordeal.  It is still healing.   

I honestly leave the man alone. I don't contact. I don't say anything about him unless it is family or  like 2 friends.  I have accepted that my marriage is over.  I am not happy about this as I did mean my vows and loved him very, very much. I still miss him at times. As I should after a 30 year relationship.  I see him as having died except he is living.  I mourn a ghost. That man does not exist I don't think.

I don't understand how he keeps being a toxic entity in our lives or why he should be.  His girlfriend should love all the time he spends with her without a crazy ex bothering them.  I guess it doesn't matter - complete no contact vs crazy nagging ex wife it still bothers someone.

Frustrated over here. 

[Rising Phoenix]

Absolutely living,
I am the evil wife who abused him, broke him, I am not a normal mentally functioning parent, I am a classic text book case of parental alienation, I only wanted him for his wage packet ( I worked full time till kids then part time and raised kids) I took out bills in his name and run them up, I was unreasonable for packing his belongings.

According to the ow I am a monster! So she keeps stating on social media. I’ve never commented on social media about her.

Mine has finally decided to divorce me but as nah said it may poss be ow ultimatum. I have left him alone other than odd emails to try discuss kids and divorce to save me solicitor fees. 99% of time I get no reply. I have not chased since last bd, I have not begged and not even said I love him or miss him. Purely divorce and kids.

I wonder if that upsets him that I don’t and made his bed?
Again I think it was nah or nas said smile and know my silence to her posts are driving her insane.
I do nothing. Xx
 

[Treasur]

Gosh RP, well we all are aren't we? What an evil bunch we are, bwahaha! I even made my XH feel distressed when he hadn't spoken to me for months but 'had' to file for divorce, so he felt really angry with me about it.....

[Nas]

Has anyone heard from BrenRoss lately?  I was thinking about her because she was so active on the early vanisher threads and I know in her last posts, she was dealing with a lot.  I hope she's okay.

My Timehop app just reminded me of the last birthday card H gave me in August 2014. (It's not my birthday but I guess I took a picture of the card after BD.)

The card says "You do that one thing. You know? That one amazing thing? I love the way you do that thing."
And then on the inside it says:
"I call it 'putting up with me.'
Happy Birthday (...and keep 'doing it')"

And then he wrote, "Happy Birthday, Love, H."

Less than a month later he was on his way to Affairville with OW via Facebook messages.

And now 3.5 years later, I have cancer, he doesn't care and I don't even know his phone number.
Funny how things change.

He joked a lot about how I "put up with him."  He even wrote it on Facebook: "I'm so lucky my wife puts up with me and I love her for it."
He certainly had his issues, like literally refusing to eat in a seafood restaurant no matter how many other people wanted to have seafood - he hated the smell and refused to be around it.
I thought because he joked about me "putting up with him," he realized how often he "needed" to have things a certain way and appreciated how often I did the LBS version of compromising (i.e. giving the MLCer their way).

I'm coming to the sad, scary, heartbreaking realization that H has become a narcissist and this is who he is now. Pre-MLC, he was definitely needy and selfish about things like not being around seafood, but he didn't exhibit any real true NPD traits. 

I wouldn't say he has true NPD traits even now, but NPD is literally the only way to explain a man who would vanish and have no empathy for me while I have advanced cancer.  I mean, I don't just have a cancerous mole that needed to be removed (not to say that's not scary and no disrespect meant to anyone who's had skin cancer or anything like that), but I have an aggressive and advanced form of cancer for which there are not a lot of treatment options.  The likelihood of me dying of this is very high, and H just doesn't care.
He's done with me, he has a suitable "replacement" and so he. does. not. care.

What screams NPD to me is that he doesn't even care enough to pretend he cares. (I guess he did at first, when he told me he'd ask his team at work to pray for me.  But at some point after he sent me the text on my birthday, he stopped caring about even trying to look like he cares.)

He certainly did not seem even close to a "true" NPD for the first year or two after BD, but now I really can't come up with another valid reason for his choice to completely let me go and burn the bridge beyond all recognition.

[nah]

Nas,

Just my opinion and it’s a sorry @ss excuse, I don’t think it’s bc he doesn’t care, in fact if he was “meh” about it, he would contact you so he wouldn’t look like a grade A humongous @-hole.

He’s scared to death to face you, and face mortality.

I’m so sorry he’s being such a prick.

[Nas]

He’s scared to death to face you, and face mortality.

That's what I have wanted to believe.  Afraid of his mortality, maybe, if he somehow thinks I'm dying.  Afraid of me - he has no flipping reason to be.  I was as calm, cordial and kind as could be for all the time leading up to my diagnosis, even when he was being so frustrating and financially hurting me.

He sent me a text on my birthday, a month and a half after my diagnosis. There was no indication then that he was going to disappear.  Something obviously changed for him after that.

In October, he changed his Fakebook cover photo for the first time in 2 years...to a picture of a building he works next to that was lit up pink for breast cancer awareness. He must have been seeing breast cancer stuff left and right in October. But I didn't hear a word from him.

He tweeted to a female sports figure in January that she was "as classy as they come" for raising a ton of money for breast cancer, which he called "a great cause."  He'd already changed his phone number at that point and we hadn't had any contact in many months.  Mind boggling.

[1trouble]

Nas

Its not NPD its Avoidance

There is a personality disorder called avoidant personality disorder your H may be exhibiting this whilst in crisis, he may be a total avoidant but from what you posted I don't think he is.

I use to call my H and avoidant personality because when faced with anything uncomfortable or hard (even before MLC) he would run away....my therapist explained to me that a real avoidant runs and doesn't look back, someone who avoids difficult stuff temporarily isn't a total avoidant so it wasn't my H and TBH, even though he has cut himself off from you atm and is showing some traits, I don't think its yours...

I know given what you are going through this is going to sound really screwed but I don't think he can face whats happening to you, and given what he's done, in crisis, he feels he has no right to contact you or reach and more importantly, I guess, he probably justifies his no contact as being for the best......, bad, selfish and very wrong thinking ..... I know   

But, personally, I think, the pink picture he posted and the reach out to the celeb are ways of "connecting" in his head albeit remotely, to whats happening with you and shows on some level (a MLC one) he does 'care'

I don't blame you if you wnt to go off at me for that and come back at me....but I just think in MLC their brains don't function at a 'normal' level and their are no 'normal reactions, even to things that should wake them up.

We read stories on here and elsewhere of MLC'ers 'woken' up because of shocks, or because the LBS walked away or was getting on with their lives, or divorced the MLC;er or threatened it.............and it sort of creates and expectation that if something happens in our story or we meet someone knew or we file for divorce etc...they will start to come out of it, start to feel...its not that simple and I think the cases where this has happened were just a fluke or coincide with the chemical imbalance subsiding IMO

I don't know what your H was like before crisis, I know mine was the sort of person who could either deal with the original crisis situation, ( if it was sudden) in an exceptionally cool calm way BUT after would run OR if it was some rubbish that we knew was coming like health stuff, ops etc. he would 'run' before or just after (when I say 'run' I mean drugs years ago and years and once he kicked drugs it would be drinking a bit too much )....

Obviously, the observations I make about your H is from a distance and not knowing the pre MLC person but also what I have observed in my own H in MLC and the research I have done on this

I think they all, even in the middle of this have at times. some level of feeling and awareness but then the fog comes back in, at the times they feel its very acute.  I think your H is being very cowardly (aren't they all?!) and cannot reach out to you, through acute guilt and shame and you could be right it might be the fact he is frightened of his own mortality
BUT also he wants to stay where he is............NOT because he is happy but because its easier and I believe at this point in his crisis (like mine) the status quo is the easier option.
They don't have the strength, will power or mental power to do anything else but stay...
AND
The energy they had at the beginning is gone and whats left is total apathy.......
Busybee says there is a dark period they enter  and I totally believe she is right, this is later in the crisis and its when they cut themselves off from everyone and immerse themselves in their 'new life' because they just cant do anything else and cant cope with the guilt and shame of their old life.....but even in the midst of this, there is still a pull to their 'real' life ......even if they do nothing about it..make no mistake, even if we cant see it they are tortured .....
 
I am sure from your viewpoint it seems so self indulgent what your H is doing ..............I know when I have dealt with crap in the last few years like my back fracture and the feeling of helplessness and vulnerability I had and latterly stuff with J when he was really poorly a little while ago......at those times I really felt disgusted with my H ...here I was dealing with REAL crap...and he is living in some stupid "fantasy" schmoopie land ....so I cant imagine how you feel.....

BUT I would not for one minute think he isn't thinking of you, isn't tortured by what he has done and doing and isn't racked with guilt..
(Which of course he should be).....................because I believe by some of his social media posts he is.....cold comfort I know xx

[Thunder]

It,

I believe you nailed it.

Nas, I truly believe everything It just said.  I've thought it for a very long time.

[Still Half full]

Nas I think what 1T wrote is spot on

Reading what 1T said reminded me of something my MLCH said very early on. He was involved with ow and working away.   I'd been being very light with communication, even though I knew 'something' wasn't right, but I got to a stage where texting and emailing wasn't working for me, so asked him to call me. He did but he was an absolute mess, sobbing, telling me he couldn't cope, I didn't really know what was going on so I was caring and calm but nothing got through. We ended the call because he just couldn't speak. It turns out he walked for hours in a strange city in a different country. I was trying to pacify him and he sent me a text saying that if he didn't live second to second, minute to minute he wouldn't survive this trip away. He told me he couldn't think about me and still do his job, so I backed off, we went back to very light 'how's the weather' communications but I could see on social media he was still working and socialising, it broke my heart and I felt helpless

When he got back I discovered his affair, he ran, and I think he is still living his life second to second because if he thinks about me he can't cope

Nas I really think this is what's happened to your MLCH, I think the supporting breast cancer posts are proof that he is aware, but he just cannot face what he's done. I remember when you were still in contact he concentrated on your dog, the easy stuff, the stuff that doesn't make them feel dreadful for how they've behaved. No one could not care that their long term partner is going through what you're going through. A huge group of people here care about you 😊 and we haven't spent a big chunk of our lives with you

I'm not sure if what I've written helps, I hope it does a little, sometimes reading other people's experiences can shine a bit of light on our crazy situations, just like reading 1T's post reminded me of my H's state of mind, I hadn't thought about his trip for ages.

And then sometimes we need to read kick**s posts that make us lol like Nah's 😄

I hope you're coping ok and that the treatment isn't too dreadful, that doesn't sound anywhere near what I want to say, I can't find the right words, but if someone who just reads your posts and is not in MLC struggles to know what to say, I can imagine how hard it is for your stupid, weak, guilt ridden MLCH, no excuses, he should be supporting you, but MLC seems to take their backbones and makes them completely spineless

Thinking of you Nas and sending positive thoughts that you beat this. Keep all your strength for healing and don't let thoughts of your weak H take your strength, he doesn't deserve it

[Milly]

Nas, you are in a particularly unfair situation. You got BD like the rest of us, your H is a regular MLCer, then you got cancer and that didn't make him care any more about you than if you had been a healthy LBS.

This proves even more that a MLCer does not react to the situations that the rest of us do. A 'normal' person would run to be at your side. The fact that your H cannot be with you as you go through this horrendous illness by yourself just shows that he is not a normal person right now.

He's not reacting as any one would. He's not able to come comfort and support you the way a regular friend would. Why? Any one who could, would. Why not your H? He has loved you or he wouldn't have chosen to marry you. Why can't he hold your hand now? Because he's so severely sick, too.

If you took your cancer away, your H is a regular MLCer going through what he needs to go through. He doesn't feel less for you than our Hs feel for us. On the contrary, his posting the cancer ribbon thing, means he's thinking of you, A LOT. He can't face you, because the cancer makes him even more guilty for what he's done. The more problems, pain they cause us, the harder it is for them to face us. The more they vanish.

You have clues that in spite of his guilt, he still thinks of you. His thoughts are drawn to you. That's why the pink ribbon, the supportive words about cancer that he doesn't have the courage to say to your face. But he is saying them online. That means you are in his constant thoughts. That's a MLCer who is following script. Your situation is normal.

I'm so very sorry for your additional burden, Nas. I have told you before. It's just not fair that both this health horror is happening to you and BD is happening to you. Your H is not caring less for you than others. He can't handle cancer. A child couldn't handle cancer, and that's how you have to think of him now. It's not against you. He's useless, powerless, weak even though he may not wish these things. He can't help it.

Nas, you keep fighting, you keep looking ahead and keep making plans for you. You can get through all of the $h!te that is being thrown at you. It's not fair, but you have additional strength. You have shown that by ending up on here. You fight your cancer and enjoy your life, making choices that are best for you because what is best for you is going to be better for your H, too. It's your time finally. Nas, I really believe your H thinks about you every day.
Take care brave girl. Lots of hugs and strength for you.xxxx

[heroIam]

1t.
I believe everything you said.

[Treasur]

Makes sense to me too.
And you know what? With vanishers, we can choose what we think if we don't know. And pick the 'story' that helps us cope and move forward. Like Schrodinger's Cat.

[nah]

And you know what? With vanishers, we can choose what we think if we don't know. And pick the 'story' that helps us cope and move forward.

I see your point but I always encourage to take it one step further.

So common for us to imagine they are having such a wonderful life.  It's probably what we talk about the most.  I can see why we do this,... everything we ever thought we knew was real was suddenly turned upside down.  For a time, I doubted what I thought I always knew was real, I especially doubted myself.  Plus, it just made sense, why would anybody run away from what we thought was good unless they were going to something better? 

I had to step back and think about not what I thought but what I knew.

I don't know his thoughts, or anybody's for that matter but I KNOW my own.

My memories are real, I know this, I lived them, they are in my heart.  I KNOW I loved him, I KNOW I loved my family, I KNOW I genuinely would have done anything for all of them b/c lets face it, I was put to the test and I did everything in my power to keep us together, yes I failed but I tried.  He did not.  He didn't even try.  He ran and hid.  Again, this I know b/c it was a fact.  I offered for him to just talk to me, on HIS terms.... he refused.  His terms were to do nothing.

Who is the well-adjusted adult?

What else do I know?  I know how I behave when I see a once longterm married man with a young blonde that I knew were having an affair.  I was disgusted.  I didn't know but I assumed that other women my age would behave the same way as me.  I was so taken aback when The Leaver and his girl seemed to be accepted in the crowd of wives that were my age.  Were my instincts off?  Did everything I ever knew was wrong?

No, I was right.  They just seemed to be accepted b/c people smile for pictures they know will be posted.

There was so much drama and turned backs, that after time, The Leaver and the girl couldn't take it anymore. 

Do I know that they still have to deal with this kind of treatment with other people?

No, I don't know.

Somethings we might never know, but a good educated guess is most likely on the money.

[Rising Phoenix]

I have asked to talk aswell nah and for him to see his kids or even just contact them but I don’t even get a refusal. I just get ignored and ow posts some rubbish.
It’s sunny in uk and I wonder on sunny days when we would be doing family stuff what he is thinking or doing. Prob a motorbike ride with ow or just playing his game as he doesn’t like the heat.

It is hard to not think they are having a fabulous life but then ow posts quotes on how to heal a heart from trauma and to not talk about trauma is best so I think that tells me he doesn’t want to talk. Or ow is worried he may.

It is easier to imagine their life is fab without us. I don’t think I will even be getting to mediation as he wants separate rooms and I have said no. I don’t know if that’s he can’t face me or ow again doesn’t want him any where near me.

It amazes me how they can just shut the door on 30 yrs of love and memories for an affair down and certainly is for h!

What I try and focus on is what I have achieved by myself that I never thought I would be doing such as decorating and driving to London.

Tbh as h once said to me I can do what I like when I like. Xx

[Nas]

I do very much appreciate all of the insight you all were kind enough to provide in response to my pity party posting last week.

I did believe in the beginning that he was staying away because he can't face me.  But I don't really think that anymore.  Just for example, he just tweeted two things: 1) a retweet of a contest to win a year's supply of golf balls, and 2) a very excited 'atta boy!" congratulations to some local midwestern sports broadcaster he's never even met (who calls games for a team he doesn't even follow), congratulating him on getting his first ever hole in one. 

Life is going along just dandy for him.  He's spending his days immersed in golf and sports and whatever else he wants and he's having a grand old time.  He's getting away with starting over with a whole new life but not divorcing (and therefore not paying) me and can just pretend I never existed.

Wonder if he'll even feel a twinge of guilt this coming Mother's Day weekend.  He's obsessed with golf and baseball and all the MLB players and the PGA players will be wearing pink for breast cancer awareness.  I have a feeling at this point, it won't make him even bat an eye. 

[nah]

A couple of tweets? That’s your window into all of his thoughts?

What about the other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the day?

Things are rarely as they seem in MLC-land.

[Milly]

Nas, my H was, not sure he still is, golf and baseball mad. OW went out golfing with him too, spent weekends in beautiful golf resorts with him, and even created a website where my H would teach tourists to golf while on their holidays in Tuscany. Even before BD, my H spent every day playing golf, spending money when he should have been working and earning for his family, then watched baseball on TV during the night because of the time difference. These are all escape and avoid activities.

His 'atta boy' is so immature. Mine says these stupid things, too. He's pretending, Nas. Don't read into it anything but desperation to seem cool, just like a teen who is insecure.

Listen to Nah. And regarding mother's day, he is definitely going to feel guilty. But he won't do anything to make it better for you. That's what most of them are like. Don't have expectations of mother's day, but don't think that yours cares less than any of the others. Yours is just at an earlier phase. We've all gone through your thoughts.

Nas, it's going to be ok. You focus on what you need each day. We all faked it until it worked one day. Keep pushing on.xxx

[Nas]

My vanisher is such a sh*t.  Today is the anniversary of his grandfather's death.  They were extremely close.
Every year, I get the Facebook "on this day" memory of the photos H uploaded the day his grandfather died.  He tagged me in the post where he uploaded several pictures of his grandfather, including one of me, H and his grandfather and grandmother at our wedding reception.

Today I got the "on this day" notification and when I looked, I noticed the picture of me was not there.  So I clicked on the "view edit history" and it looks like although this is a post from May 15, 2014 (so it just popped up today as a memory), H edited this particular post on April 8, deleting the picture that I'm included in.  All the other pictures are still there.  The coward really wants to erase me.
But for some reason, he left me tagged on the post. 

[Schratz66]

I am so sorry Nas that is a really $h!tety thing to do. At least he could have then untagged you as well. Such cowards.

[Rising Phoenix]

A coward nas. I don’t know how they sleep at night.

I signed his divorce today. I did one last fight for my marriage on Saturday and emailed him saying I didn’t want to sign it but if he was 100% confident in his decision then he would have no problem in telling me to sign it.
I said that he will miss the things only a family can do and miss family b days, xmas, prom, weddings and grandchildren in the future. I said I am a strong woman and he missed it and that I do not fear the future but prefer him in it and I am strong enough to ask these questions. I said what I have achieved by myself and the things he used to do with my safety always in his mind like grab my hand to cross the road and text me to be careful driving if the roads were bad.
I said someone showed me a pic of him at xmas and he had a shirt on that I bought. Funnily enough ow removed or made private all pics of them.

When I email ow quotes come thick and fast.  I’m sure she has nothing better to do with her time. I said is your life everything you hoped and dreamed it would be and within minutes she posted about how to deal with toxic family members and life is amazing when you don’t surround yourself with people that are pieces of s**t.

I told about daughter self harm up her leg but I had no reply to any of it.

I don’t know if he is 100% confident in his decision or just doesn’t give a s**t to even reply, not even about d13!

So today I signed and sent an email with pics of the kids and said we say our goodbyes to you. Goodbye to a father and husband we no longer have. We will always miss you in some way but we will be ok.

Ow seems to have gone quiet.

[Nas]

I'm so sorry, RP.  Your H sounds like he's a real mess and his OW is as crazy as they come.  They're acting like very sick people and it's very, very sad. 

The fact that he doesn't care about his daughter self-harming is exactly why MLC sucks so bad.  How a man can be so self-absorbed that they don't care about anyone or anything else is so hard to come to terms with. 

[Schratz66]

I am so sorry Rising, just sad how they let OW run their lives and appalling how he is indifferent to his own child hurting.

[Rising Phoenix]

I don’t know Schratz66.  She doesnt wAnt him anywhere near me so no kids as means he had to see me. How can another person be more important than your kids!
What hurts my kids hurts me.
Well I got arsy this morn and have emailed that I have had enough and he will speak to me about kids even if I have to turn up at his work. He said he is happy to take kids out the other week but they have not contacted him! Not their hib as he is the adult! So my next email is right I will take them Park, I expect you to attend and I will leave!
Xx

[Thunder]

Rising, it's very typical for some of these MLCer's to put the alienator ahead of everyone else, sadly even their children.
They are not in their right mind.  Their addiction is strong.

Would someone like to start a new thread for Vanishers?   

New thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10151.0