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Author Topic: Mirror-Work Resources: Mirror Work & Paving the Way  (Read 46071 times)

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Offline HeartsBlessing

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This concerns placing blame and anger totally on OW, instead of directing it toward the SOURCE-the WAS

This sermon caused some controversy on the thread it was posted on-but it was necessary-I didn't want to offend anyone, and still don't-it was part of the lessons I learned-and anyone can still learn from this-don't get "stuck" in misdirected anger, learn to face the actual SOURCE that started this whole mess: the WAS



Now, one other thing, and this is based on many posts I have seen:

Why do you ladies place ALL the blame, and direct your anger at OW? I'm just curious about that-or maybe that is something you have to learn about--at first, I was angry at just the OW, but then the Lord made me realize the fault laid with MY HUSBAND-HE was the one who started this, not her.

She carried some of the blame once she found out he was married and wouldn't let him go-I don't believe she KNEW until he was ready to break it off-I believe he set her up to reject him and it backfired on him!

But you see, the total BLAME for the whole situation getting started laid on HIM-and so HE needed to be the target for my anger, NOT HER. Sure, she might have known or not known, he was married, and still tried to hang on, but you have got to see where IT ALL STARTED FROM-THE SOURCE WAS THE WAYWARD SPOUSE! That's who started this whole mess.

And the brunt of your anger needs to be directed toward HIM-see what I'm trying to tell you?

The WHOLE fault for starting this lays with the wayward spouse-and you must face that--just like I had to. Your husbands CHOSE this path, and when you direct ALL the blame on OW, and put NONE on him-you are defeating the purpose and living in denial-reality MUST be seen for what it is-they have committed the MOST selfish act there can be:
breaking their marriage vows and putting the marriage asunder in the losing of their committment. And you have EVERY right to be ANGRY at your MLC spouse!

Work through your feelings, reach forgiveness for your husband and OW-then let it go, as you can't change the past-you must now look to the future, that is one thing you CAN change.

Don't allow this to wield power over you-you've got enough on your plate as it is.


More on understanding OW and MLC'er-and what they think they need from each other

This is a partial quote of mine from another thread-it might help to answer your question:


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But when all was said and done, I DID overcome-and see OW in a different light than I did before-and without hate and resentment in my heart toward her--she is to be pitied rather than hated, because her problems are much bigger than ours will ever be.

We are learning what we need for this life, while OW stumbles along in the dark, never understanding why she cannot be happy with what she is doing with married men-using them for MONEY and MAINTENANCE.

You still think this is all about sex? Think again-sex, most of the time has NOTHING to do with it-it is only used as a "weapon" a last resort to try and keep the man--mostly what the OW is after is the MONEY she can get from a man-and if that is the ONLY thing she gets she can be happy with that-she only uses her sexuality to try and keep them, and most of the time she will get dumped like a rock, always being left behind.

I'm not saying they are ALL not interested in sex, but think about it--it is true that some will be happy with just getting MONEY from the married men-as they are concerned with THEMSELVES, and not the man-and the bad part is that when the OW is finished USING the man-she will dump him and walk away without a second look-as he has served his purpose with her-she has found something she considers "better".

The description above is the OW's idea of "True Luv"-they have NO idea what love really entails-and so they equate it with "using".
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I recall posting one time that "neurotics attract neurotics" and that is VERY true in MLC-OW has problems, the MLC'er has problems and for a time, they meet needs within each other.

OW is not looking for anything EXCEPT what SHE percieves SHE needs-and the MLC'er is doing the same thing with her.

Most of the time NEITHER one is aware they are "using" each other-until the affair begins to dissolve.

I understand, too, that is NOT always this cut and dried and black and white, but it IS an underlying reason OW takes up with men that look less than desirable-they are not so much concerned with that as they are with MONEY and MAINTENANCE.

One of the first things OW tries to find out is how much money they have and have no shame about begging them out of it, because she perceives that as "being kept", and ultimately that is what she is after.

She has NO interest in really pursuing a committed relationship, she is just as selfish as the MLC'er has become while deep within the tunnel.

When the affair dissolves, she is outraged because her "meal ticket" has just gone out the window, and she engages in "pursuing behaviors" mostly for that reason.

And, of course the she refuses to take her half of the blame-ALL the blame goes on the married man who up and left her--high and dry--she is ANGRY because he is no longer there to "keep her" in the lifestyle she is accustomed to.

I am convinced this is NOT all about sex-it is about selfishness, using and obsession. On both parts.

Yes, the affair meets some needs, but disregards others-and the "caring, love and intimacy" that helps a relationship get off the ground and grow is NOT there.

Theirs is mostly built on deception, and "what's in it for me?" routine, and both don't care who they hurt.


This was the answer S&A provided to my question-and I brought it here for additional help in "letting go" of the resentment and ill-will that is sometimes transferred to the OW alone:



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Why do you ladies place ALL the blame, and direct your anger at OW?
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I have done much thinking on this for two years as the Gnat has been so central to my story, though as you say...just a symptom.

The main reason is because it is easier to hate her than our H. We are emotionally attached to H and arent to the OW so it costs us less pain to focus our hate on her (for whom we do not care) than on our H who have done a heinous thing to us. Our H's betrayal is very personal as he was the one who promised to love, honor, cherish us and forsake all others. He knew our heart and did it anyway. AHHHHHH

This is hard to bear.

Secondly, though I realize this is sexist, I think the media at least has portrayed men as being highly controlled by their sex hormones and on some level they cant help it (lame I know...they can help it...) Somehow I think we tend to think the OW should know better and it is an offense to treat a female sister like this.
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline HeartsBlessing

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This is concerning CYCLES

A "cycle" starts when the same behavior is repeated over and over for a period of time and there is NO end to it-it "circles" in other words. And the person repeating the "cycle" must have help to break free from it.

Something HAS to give when a cycle starts, someone's behavior has to change or a confrontation has to ensue.

For example:

Say a man has OW, but wants his wife too seeing them both because he is too weak to decide what he wants. The wife states her stand on it, and he promises to get rid of OW. But he ignores what she says and lies to her so he can keep right on seeing OW AND his wife, too-"fence-sitting" is a better word for that or "cake-eating".

After giving the man a reasonable period of time-usually a week, the wife then needs to change her behavior toward the man, "cutting him off", "going dark" AFTER telling him ONE MORE TIME where she stands.

In effect, the change of behavior SHOULD break the "cycle".

When it doesn't break, something is wrong-the wife MUST stick to her guns and NOT allow him to see her at all-"cycles" are difficult to break when the wife lacks the strength to enforce her stand. IF he moves on, she has lost nothing, but allowing for human nature, most of the time, the man will go on and dump the OW, coming back to the wife, knowing she means business, and won't allow him to get away with this.

You see, people will do what we allow them to get away with, and when the SAME problem crops up AGAIN and AGAIN, it begins what is called a "cycle" and a change in behavior is called for to break it. And that change MUST be solid, no waffling-self-respect is at usually at stake.

In MLC, there are certain times when this will work, and you must know when those times are.

I've seen several cases here of "cycles" and some them continue on and on, because the LBS lacks the strength to make a stand, afraid of being willing to lose all to possibly regain the MLC'er.

As long as the MLC'er is waffling between the wife and OW, it is a good time to break a cycle.

It might try the patience of the LBS, but in the end, unless the MLC'er goes nuts and chooses OW, it should work.


There are other "cycles" to look at, in the cases of disrespect-controlling and manipulation can be stopped.

It calls, again, for a change in behavior-reacting in a way that the MLC'er does NOT expect, and refusing to take anymore.

My husband used to control me with anger and threats when I confronted him, and he used to say things that would "shut me up". If he didn't want to discuss something he used to say hurtful things to me, so I would withdraw and say nothing else to him. And this cycle was going on while he was in his MLC-I stopped that cycle by changing my behavior and reactions to his hateful statements-the next thing he did was threaten to leave, and I, instead of crying and begging like I did before, just cut him loose, and invited him to leave if that was what HE wanted to do.

He's never repeated that behavior again, and that was the only "cycle" I got stuck in.

The bottom line is, you have to overcome your FEAR, and make a stand against what you know is WRONG, not worrying about what might happen, just knowing your self-respect is at stake, and being strong enough to stand.

If he really wants to leave..etc, he will do what HE wants to do, and there's NOTHING you can do about it. But you cannot become a "doormat" for him to walk on. You must be resolute and strong without becoming soft. And you don't have to put up with wrong behavior. It CAN be stopped, point-blank.



This is a Q and A from LSL, asking me to further define what must be done during a cycle

This does MORE explaining and helps to further your understanding.

LSL,

Now, you are making MY brain hurt! LOL!

Just kidding.


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HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE THE CHANGE NEEDED. IS IT BOUNDARIES, 180'S, SOME COMBINATION?
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When you commit to a course of action-the "consequences" of that action no longer matter-you are letting go of that.
Making your stand is NOT considered 'punishment'-that is up to the Lord to "punish" people by causing them to reap what they sow.

You are simply deciding what you will and won't tolerate and taking steps to CHANGE that situation, through actions and/or confrontation. It is the equivalent of saying "NO MORE" and not backing down.

The actions you take depend upon the situation faced-I outlined two different examples of making such a stand in my last post.

Most situations are NOT so different, LSL, and the "bully's" reactions are usually NOT that different, unless he/she is totally twisted, and/or at the "point of no return"-or is determined to leave forever, anyway. OR, even, they IGNORE the LBS actions, and just continue their unacceptable behavior-in THAT case-you either ACCEPT it or NOT-your choice all the way around. There are some "die-hards" that will NEVER see what they are doing to hurt themselves and others-and of course that is covered in psychiatric disorders. They are beyond help-and you cannot help them, and MUST just let them go totally-getting on with your life.

What behavior you are standing up against determines the changes that have to be made in the LBS-this is "solution-based" thinking-it DEPENDS on what you are facing, LSL as to what you need to do. IF one thing doesn't work, try something else-each person is different and it might require a combination of things to bring about a desired result. No one can decide that for you-it is always YOUR choice-and you know your husband better than anyone else.


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IS THE ONLY "SOLID" OPTION IN A OW-CYCLE AN ULTIMATUM -
or ARE THERE OTHER OPTIONS LBS HAS TO PREVENT WAS/'caker' "FROM GETTING AWAY WITH"(NO CONSEQUENCES) THIS BEHAVIOR ?
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There are several possibilities the LBS can use, and the only three options are:

1. Ultimatum, which in the case of MLC won't work unless the MLC'er is READY to give OW up, and is attempting to CAKE-EAT.

2. Going dark without saying a word, but the WAS won't "get it" so a confrontation IN THE CASE OF OW is usually necessary BEFORE going dark.

3. Just tolerating the situation, and going on endlessly for years, allowing the cycle to continue-had to throw that one in-it is the LEAST desireable option, but one that is usually chosen because fear dictates the actions of the LBS.

I, quite honestly, don't see any OTHER ways of handling this type of situation WITHOUT a confrontation of some sort-the LBS has to come to the point of deciding what he/she will and won't tolerate and take action-and that course of action is UP to the individual who is on the receiving end of this.


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WILL ONE KNOW WHEN THIS WILL WORK
- IS THERE ANY INDICATION AS WHAT THOSE TIMES ARE?
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I had my insight and someone to guide me in this, LSL-but your own intuition is your BEST indicator--use the tools you have been given through DB, self-help books, the Bible, and this messageboard to help you-that is what they are here for-for one thing.

On the other hand, watching the situation is one of the BEST indicators as to when the BEST time is to confront-I can't exactly explain it, but YOU WILL KNOW-it goes back to your intuition-and the "cycle" that develops will become so clear even the person involved within CAN'T miss it unless they are totally BLIND, or choose to be. Depends on, again, what each of us are willing to live with and tolerate. If you're not satisfied with a situation, CHANGE it, taking the steps necessary to do so.

Again, when you take a course of action, you LET GO of what the consequences may be(spouse goes on and leaves, etc). But understand we are human and there is so much even WE will tolerate before something must be done, and each of our tolerance levels are different-what is totally UNacceptable to one person may be totally Acceptable to another-each one of us are different-those differences must be taken into account.

In short, we each KNOW, deep within our hearts what we can and can't live with.


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DOES THE "STAND" MEAN ASKING SPOUSE TO LEAVE?
OR DOES IT MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS (ex.BOUNDARIES) FOR DIFFERENT CYCLES?
DOES IT MEAN WAS LEAVE IN CASE OF OW?
DOES THE STAND DEMAND A CHOICE ON THE WAS,
WHERE THE LBS HAS TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH CHOICE RESULTS/CONSEQUENCES?
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That is totally up to the LBS-different circumstances call for different courses of actions-again it DEPENDS on the circumstances-and when you KNOW the options you have, you can make a choice that "fits" within those options.


In MLC, there DOES come a time when you will have to "be willing to lose all to possibly regain him" and the circumstances ARE differing.

In my own case-and I know I've told this story before-I was attempting to hold my husband accountable for OW, plus his behavior, and I triggered a tantrum in him--now, in the past he'd always controlled me through anger and threats, and that had always worked then, but not at the time I confronted him.

He threatened to leave me because in his words "You won't shut up", and I released him-telling him if that was what he wanted to do, do it, but don't threaten me with it again-and I never raised my voice-I had learned TWO lessons that day-the first was to stay quiet in conflict, and the second was the "being willing to lose all to possibly regain him" lesson.

He threatened me with other stuff(no physical violence, though--that line had been drawn YEARS before) and I just kept putting the decision to leave or not to leave BACK on his shoulders and was calm about it.

He never left.

He has NOT repeated this particular behavior again-and at one time it WAS a bone of contention between us-I had ALLOWED it for many years, but no more-I had made my stand, and he responded to that stand by STOPPING the behavior-I didn't give him the SAME reaction I had given over the years-I had changed the tapes.

Now, remember the decision I made at that time was NOT made ahead of time-it was made in a split-second, because the tantrum and threats were made UNEXPECTEDLY-I did NOT know what he was going to do until he did it.

But, you see, I was guided into holding him accountable, and I was "pushed" until I did it-the Lord would NOT allow me to back down, as the "old" me would have done before-I could NOT revert back to "old" behaviors-it was placed within me to confront and I did-but you see, WHEN I did I "let go" of the consequences of my actions-leaving them to the LORD to work out.

If he HAD left, there was NOTHING I could have done to stop it-and I knew that, too, even BEFORE I confronted-but I had to be READY to accept whatever the result would be-it was up to my husband whether he stayed or went, not me.

All these things passed through my mind that day, but I settled myself afterwards, knowing I had done all I could, but I wasn't willing to let him manipulate me anymore-I wasn't a child, and neither was he-and he DID respect me a great deal more after that.


Now, concerning making him leave in the case of OW DOES have its advantages-it causes him to "miss" the LBS, and OW has the burden of meeting ALL his needs, not just some of them-and she doesn't know him the way the LBS does, and so he becomes dissatisfied with the affair and it burns out--UNLESS he is determined to start over anyway-again that is BEYOND the LBS' control--everything comes down to being willing to LET GO of controlling ANYTHING concerning another person-because really, we don't OWN anyone except OURSELVES, and all things happen for a reason.

The STAND CAN mean going through with what the LBS has said he/she will do if certain conditions are not met, and that is NOT control-the WAS has broken their marriage vows, and the LBS has the right to demand a choice, but in MLC, that can happen only when the MLC'er is CAKE-EATING.

Do NOT make your stand UNTIL you are READY to live with the consequences of what you are saying you will do-that is WHY I say you CANNOT waffle-you must stand strong and be willing to go through it.

Otherwise, the cycle will definitely repeat itself, and the time will be lengthened to ensure you learn the lesson and "get it" right.

One more thing, even if the WAS REFUSES to leave-you can STILL make your stand and go at least "dim" on them-refusing to have much of ANYTHING to do with him/her-and sticking to it, getting on with your life.

Though I talked my husband out of leaving when I found out about OW, and he treated me terribly, I ended up going totally "dim" on him, and that sent him the message that he could LOSE me-I was calm, quiet, but firm that this had better stop-but I never threatened him or said anything that indicated I was going to leave-I just had very little to do with him for awhile-and he got the message, loud and clear.

But, deep down, I hurt so badly that it was unreal-but that did pass, in time, and I felt I was doing the right thing, and knew it for sure when I observed him coming back toward me later on.


Whew, Lord, I hope I have explained this in a way that will help you ALL to understand how this works--I KNOW how it works having been there before, but explaining it in a way that is understood is hard, but I think I got it right.
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline HeartsBlessing

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This concerns FORGIVENESS

I forgave OW-without speaking to her at all-I had my instructions-and I knew I could forgive her without seeing her-and I did that.

I also forgave my husband long before he asked me for forgiveness for ANYTHING he did.


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I actually feel I am ready to forgive - as a generality: tho suspect [as in my autumn leaves analogy], forgiveness-to-the-point-of-no-anger-anywhere may be a long time coming. But maybe it isnt true forgiveness so long as there is any drop of anger left?
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The FEELINGS, however DO still have to be worked through-I remember being puzzled when I made up my mind to forgive, but yet I still felt angry, betrayed, hurt--etc.

I drew on somone else's wisdom to help me-because I was taught that when you forgave someone-the feelings automatically went away, and they weren't doing that.

I STILL had to work through my feelings-when I forgave, I just committed not to bring it up-released the offending party to the LORD to handle, because HE will make sure they "reap what they have sown".

You see, although they might ask the LORD for forgiveness, and He DOES forgive when they ask, the NATURAL consequences of the actions are not stopped-they STILL have to experience "reaping what they have sown." Because, whatever a person does, good or bad-it ALWAYS comes back-and not always in the same form it has gone out-most of the time it is worse.

I have observed my husband reap hard what he has sown-and that has actually lasted all this time, plus the fact he has had to LIVE with what he has done to our marriage--I, on the other hand, have not. Yes, everything he did affected me, but I didn't do what he has done, and don't have to live with the betrayal of self and marriage vows.

I learned to separate the behavior from the person-having never learned that before in my life.

No, I don't and won't ever feel that I did anything so bad I DESERVED this-what I had to look at and eventually reality hit me from both sides during my journey-was the fact that I had turned a "blind" eye to most things in our marriage, and he took advantage of that--I had MORE invested than he did, when the balance should have been more equal.

I remember my husband saying that I had "always done what I was supposed to do." And post-journey-I realized this to be true. Wasn't a bad thing, though-he never really had to worry about me-and that was PART of the problem-he'd started taking me for granted, and when I found out about OW, for the first time in 15 years, he experienced FEAR-because NOW he had crossed the line that should NEVER have been crossed-and he had to face that he might actually LOSE ME.

Everything he had ever done to me in that 15 years flashed before his eyes-I remember him speaking of it and apologizing over and over. But those things had been forgiven a long time ago and weren't worth re-hashing--this I knew, but I listened anyway.



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Most people probably won't have the insight & guidance you have had, HB, when speaking directly with your H about this. For myself, I know if I had let all my blame & anger show at the beginning when it was very raw, there would be no way back. This is why it is so important to me, to make the decision to never throw destructive emotion at either of them.
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You couldn't anyway, it wouldn't change a thing-your husband HAS to know how you felt about what he did, and that is different from "throwing destructive emotion".

It is very, very hard to separate the actions from the person-OW had NOTHING to do with you, but yet you were extremely hurt, and that is understandable. You can think all you want to, but it is what you DO that will impact the situation. And the words spoken must be chosen carefully, because two things in this life cannot be taken back:

A moment in Time
A spoken word


I forget who told me that, but it is true-and I know, during this, there have been many times I have had to bite my tongue, and if I HAD to speak, my words were chosen carefully-because to lose control, totally, could mean the end-and I would have brought that upon myself.

The Lord protected me while I was ignorant, but when my eyes were opened, it fell to ME to be careful-that's why I gave ALL control to Him-but it still took me time to be able to do that. And He has continued to direct my steps since then. And will always do so for the rest of my life.

I have been extremely fortunate that He sent me help-no, make that BLESSED. He sent me help because I was obedient to Him in all things. People often think that serving the Lord is "boring" "no fun" and we are uptight, judgemental people. That thinking comes from dealing with people that have CHOSEN to be that way.

As I have grown in my walk, I have realized that the Lord DOES have a sense of humor-I have experienced it as I've grown closer to Him-and he doesn't want us to walk in condemnation of ourselves-that does NOT mean we can "sit on the fence" and serve both Him and the Devil.

It simply means we are to do the best we can to walk in His light, serving Him to the best of our ability, making an effort to stay out of sin-we know right from wrong-being willing to give ALL control to Him, so He can help us.

In short, we must develop a relationship with the Lord, not just pay lip-service, and do good works. We must have faith, and belief in Him, and be willing to follow in His steps.

It has been said, and the bible says this, that the Lord's people are a "peculiar" people, and I find that to be true. I am a humble person, taught to love and help others, and my ACTIONS speak louder than anything I could ever say, and somehow, people actually DO see Him in me.
There is something different about me, and it has been remarked upon before-but I didn't understand what they were talking about until my own understanding came about.

And I have seen this same thing in other people.

I, myself, have continued to be obedient to Him in all ways, all things, and I don't find it "boring" at all.

He has brought me through SO much, and brought me to the level where I now currently stand.

Jesus never said we would have it easy down here, but He DID say HE would be WITH us during our trials, and He would never leave us. He will help, but we must ask-if we ask not, we have not.

I would not have made it through, if the Lord hadn't been with me this whole time.

I think I got carried away. But the Lord is SO good to me.
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline HeartsBlessing

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This is concerning Acceptance

My husband started into Acceptance back in March-breaking the stage of Withdrawal. I was told very little, but he did confirm that his MLC started in October of 1999.

After I forgave him, he did NOT want to discuss it anymore, and left me very hurt and confused. I managed to get through the hurt and confusion and kept going.

I would figure most men or women going into the Acceptance, stage, will go into it in "steps". At least my husband did.

From a spiritual point of view, it was a battle he had to fight on his own-I could only stand by and watch him.

He made a final split-similar to the one I had seen 6 months before on his exit from the tunnel with the same-aged "children" (a 4 year old and a 15 year old)I had seen then.

Sometimes, he'd start his day as the "4 year old" and end it as the "15 year old"-my son was seeing the SAME personas I saw.

Even though he was into Acceptance, he STILL put me through a great deal of stuff-and there were things he had to work out on his own. The temptation was placed before him to return to things as they once were when he was in "Replay", and thank God he didn't return. I was there when things were placed before him, but I had my instructions not to interfere and keep my mouth shut no matter what I saw and heard-this went on for eight days, and I witnessed alot of things during that time, in "speed-dial" fashion.

Things began to go much better after that eight-day period, but I was still puzzled from time to time-as he STILL went back and forth briefly through differing stages in the coming weeks--except "Denial" and "Replay".

In describing how this stage works, it is like "shutting" or "closing" doors after brief revisits with each stage except "Denial" with no going backwards into what was going on before-the temptation is simply there, but not taken. And, like the other stages it is slow-going, and severely tries the patience of the sane spouse that is trying to keep things leveled out.

And ONCE each stage is "revisited" and the door is closed-they can NEVER return to what once was.

I saw mine emerge totally from MLC itself around two weeks ago, but am still observing changes as they keep occurring.

Some of his "old" personality is there, and I feel "awake" in a way I never was before, but there is some new changes there, too.

Sometimes, my frustration is evident, and I want things I know I cannot have, as I know I cannot change him, but I'm attempting to accept the things I cannot change, knowing I must keep going on, being here if he needs me.

I also realize this has changed ME in a way I haven't ever been before-and my old wounds have healed, and I won't ever go back to what I was once before.

Only time will tell how it goes now. I'm still being guided by the Lord in how to deal with new developments as they arise.

Now, whether he comes and speaks to me of this a final time, I won't know unless the time comes-but the rules in this game are still the same: the answers will come from HIM and not ME-and as willing as I am to help him, he must help himself, regardless if I'm allowed to help or not.

But I know, deep within my heart, I cannot help him if he doesn't allow me to.

Take care.

I do know he's NOT exactly the same person I once knew---that much is evident. But there is enough of the old for him to be very familiar to me. And I must adjust once again for a final time.

More Q & A's from LSL concerning Acceptance

LSL,

Look backward in this thread most of these questions have already been answered-look at page 3 and 4-I describe Acceptance in those posts.

I will answer these questions in short-form:


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When an MLCer enters ACCEPTANCE is he/she completely freed from all the other stages?
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Yes. Once they enter the final stage of Acceptance-the "doors" are closed, forever, and they can NEVER return to what was.


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Are all those other connections severed so that it is a clean break and then the Acceptance begins?
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Acceptance is entered in stages, LSL, as I have explained elsewhere on this thread-severing those connections forever is but a part of this. But, yes, once there is a clean break-the final stage of Acceptance is entered-and there is NO going back to what once was.
The changes that are demanded from a MLC'er continue to take shape and form.


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Can we recognize this entering into acceptance, or only in hind-sight?
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Depends upon how spiritually "open" you are-some things will be recognized physically-they become more peaceful and relaxed and voice their acceptance of things.

Some things are shown in a spiritual manner-we were unable to rebond spiritually UNTIL he passed through the final temptations and the "doors" were closed forever to him-this was a battle I was allowed to witness as it took EIGHT days to finish, and I could say NOTHING, but I watched-it was necessary for me to be there as my presence along with the Lord's; helped him to overcome this final battle-the Lord knew what He was doing when He placed me with him-we were out on the road when it occurred.
So I did know when he entered the final stage of Acceptance.



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You mention thes "splits" - how does this work - what does it look like?
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That again, is described on page 3, LSL. What happens, happens as they are on their way out of the tunnel.

Their personality "disintegrates" into several people-it is kind of like a psychiatric disease-schizophrenia, Three Faces of Eve...etc.

You will see many people within, personalities you have NEVER seen before-and you will recognize YOURSELF in some of them-as normally, we pick and choose how we are "packaged"-and did this a long time ago, when we became adults-or so we thought we did.

Each personality comes forward to be seen and tested-plus there are children who are mixed up within, too-the products of childhood wounds, second adolescence, etc.

You never know who you are going to see at any given moment, and it is hard to keep up with, but the bottom line is you MUST accept what you see-no matter who is showing.

You will see "flashes" of the OLD, "flashes" of the "new", and it is an internal struggle.

The best way to react is to accept this split and be patient-no matter who you see.

For it is at this time they will choose what they will keep and what they will throw away-and come through as mature adults for the FIRST time in their lives.

IF this doesn't complete-they WILL recycle-I saw it happen with my husband-description, page 3.

Normally they should complete this internal battle, face their final fears, bottom out and come on out of the tunnel-beginning the start into the stages of Acceptance.

My husband took a detour-bouncing into Withdrawal instead-description page 3.


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Do you see these children chronologically until all issues from these ages are resolved?
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Not necessarily, LSL-I only saw TWO children-one was 3 or 4 and one was 15.

His actions showed me the children-and I thought I was going crazy until our son said the SAME thing. We just kept being patient with the children-and YES, they would show up on his job. LOL

The 4 year old liked peanut butter on his pancakes. And was impatient, hustling and rushing-practically dragging whoever was with him along-not sure what he was in so much of a hurry for, I just ran with him, and so did our son. LOL

The 15 year was totally laid back, in no hurry- complained constantly, never happy with ANYTHING-possessed a HUGE appetite for sex, and checked me out constantly-I looked the part of a teen-ager and he was definitely attracted to me, sexually. But he also talked a great deal more to me, too, he was MORE open than I had ever seen him-and all that was packaged in the 15 year old.

I can NOT tell you what he managed to work out, other than job, family, and accepting himself-the other things I have NOT been shown-it is NOT for me to know-if the Lord wants me to know, He will have my husband tell me, and that may be the final key to getting totally out of this-and shutting the door on my end of it.

I am having some vague stirrings about that, and yes, there are some things I know, but-I cannot tell anything I know...yet. I cannot have Satan dabbling in this ANYMORE-and that has happened before when I didn't keep my mouth shut.

I can talk about the past all I want to, as it is set in stone-but what's coming, I cannot until it completes.


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How do you know when this splitting is done? (is it a hind-sight?)
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Depends again on your spiritual perception-his reintegration was slow, but steady. You will see him "come back together" into a changed, more mature, person-the immature traits you knew before his entrance into the tunnel will be gone, burned out of him.

The changes will continue, and you will see more and more as time goes on-he must be let go totally this final time to allow his changes to finish-he will come out of the storm during this final stage of Acceptance, and while he is still changing, but the changes will complete themselves-in time AFTER the exit from the MLC storm. He will take care of any unfinished business during this time-relationship repair, asking for forgiveness, finally "getting" the damage he has done-or he should, to close this out completely.

That last part was what the Lord has given me to say-I don't exactly have that final experience-I'm only as far as him coming out of the storm, and he is still in the "changing" department, completing his changes. 
 
 
Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline HeartsBlessing

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May 19, 2010
As an added note, I don't think I realized just what a busy lady I'd been back at that time....I do realize that I got VERY longwinded writing these posts. :)

Is ok, though, will make for some interesting reading  I would think.  Incidentally, the final sermon on Acceptance explained more of what a person could see when and if the MLC'er gets that far.

People's comprehension/understanding will not ALL come together at the same time, each person sometimes has to read, re-read and maybe read some more, and ask a thousand questions before they "get" what they have to get.  :)

Please be patient with people that take various amounts of time to get what they need to do or even fight and argue about what they are having to learn...always remember where you came from, and remember that someone was patient with YOU, when YOU were in that same place.

Having compassion can go a long way toward helping someone that is deep within their misery; it is heartbreaking to see someone that has just had the bomb dropped on them...and knowing you were there once, too.

I always tried to NEVER forget where I came from, I answered many questions over and over and over and over until I saw the "lightbulb" come on, and they got it...then, you know, there were ALWAYS MORE questions..there always is, as not only the initial "getting it" has to be done, but LEARNING the aspects and many other things of this crisis need to be done as well on an ongoing basis.

We that have gone before are the guides that leave that trail of "breadcrumbs"..bits of information that helped in each of our individual situations.

Although, the circumstances of the crisis may be similar, no two people are the same, nor will their crisis be the same either.


Something to remember and oft repeated again and again and again. 

Always remember, too, that each person's journey, whether the marriage comes through or not, is ALSO different, as we each have our own issues, baggage, and wounds that must be healed within us.  These are brought out during the spouse's MLC, and sometimes brought out once AGAIN when/if the LBS goes through that same change themselves, triggered by the spouse's MLC.

Only when we come through successfully, whether with or without our marriage, will we be equipped to experience life at its fullest.

I came through his MLC WITH my marriage, but if my journey hadn't been taken to wholeness, things could have just as easily turned the other way, losing my marriage anyway, mainly because the "old" me wasn't going to work.  Regardless, and even though I completed the journey, this was ALWAYS a possibility I STILL had to face throughout this crisis, as my husband held the decision of whether or not he would return to our marriage and keep it.
Believe it or not, when going through my transition, I held the SAME decision within my hands, and decided to keep what I had.

Each individual person has that SAME power, regardless of how powerless you may THINK you are.

Those of you who are hurting now:
Work through your anger, misery, hurt.  Accept it, forgive the person that wronged you, forgive yourself for being a human being; pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go on into the healing process...in time, you'll need to use that experience to help others come through what you've already been through.

Believe me, you can reach the place I stand in now.

I look back over 8 years now since I went through the misery of his MLC, and from where I stand now, I can tell you, it was worth EVERYTHING I went through.  I walked the journey of a lifetime, becoming a better person than I was before through the lessons I learned.
I didn't become perfect(I only wish, LOL), but I became more confident, more settled, more tolerant, more loving, more sensitive than I had ever been.

Growing is always a good thing, attitude is the most important thing, as it doesn't matter WHAT you face, it is the ATTITUDE you have while within.
Each one of us learns to endure, learn what we need to learn, and come out better than we were before. 

You're going to be ALL right, no matter what happens, and there will come a time when you will SEE that with a certainty...regardless of what happens or doesn't happen.  Marriage or no Marriage, you'll be FINE..and a success for having GROWN through this opportunity that is also called your Spouse's MLC.

May God be with you all.

Much love,
HB :)

Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

Offline StillStanding

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Re: Resources: Self-Focus & Paving the Way
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »
For people who have some way of reading ePub-style ebooks, I've compiled a bunch of articles from James Messina, including the above articles, into an .epub file.

Link does not work - deleted - OP


Here is the list of included articles:

Tools for Anger Work-Out

Eliminating Passive Aggressiveness
Handling Resentment

Tools for Communication

Improving Listening Skills

Tools for Control Issues

Developing Detachment
Eliminating Manipulation
Letting Go of Uncontrollables and Unchangeables

Tools for Handling Loss

Stages of the Loss Process

Tools for Personal Growth

Accepting Personal Responsibility
Becoming Vulnerable
Building Trust
Developing Patience
Handling Guilt
Handling Insecurity
Having Fun
Overcoming Perfectionism
Preventing Burnout
Self-Affirmations
Self-Esteem
Spirituality in Recovery
Stress Reduction

Tools for Relationships

Creating a Healing Environment
Goal-Setting in Relationships
Handling a Fantasy Relationship
Handling Fear of Rejection
Handling Forgiving and Forgetting
Handling Intimacy
Handling Relationship Barriers
Helping Another Recognize the Need for Help
Improving Assertive Behavior
Overcoming the Role of Victim or Martyr

There is software for the desktop that can read .epubs, most notably Adobe Digital Editions:

http://www.adobe.com/products/digitaleditions/

These can also be read by iPhones and other smartphones as well -- that's why I originally started the project, for offline access to the articles.

Finally, there is a website called Bookworm (http://bookworm.oreilly.com/) where you can upload .epub files for viewing in a standard web browser.

I'm slowly adding other articles from the website to this .epub, and will post a final version when it is ready. The copyright information at the bottom of each articles states that it is okay to redistribute the articles for educational or noncommercial uses; I plan to send a copy of my completed .epub to James Messina for his approval as well.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 06:02:42 AM by OldPilot »
Me: 45, Her: 40. Married 16 1/2 years, together(-ish) 20.
Status: BD 8/25/09, she moved out 8/28/10. No talk of D.

Every day is another chance to get it right.
http://www.vachss.com/mission/behavior.html

"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin

Offline StillStanding

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Re: Resources: Self-Focus & Paving the Way
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 04:51:36 PM »
Me: 45, Her: 40. Married 16 1/2 years, together(-ish) 20.
Status: BD 8/25/09, she moved out 8/28/10. No talk of D.

Every day is another chance to get it right.
http://www.vachss.com/mission/behavior.html

"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin

Offline StillStanding

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Re: Resources: Self-Focus & Paving the Way
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 09:54:10 AM »
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:14:37 AM by StillStanding »
Me: 45, Her: 40. Married 16 1/2 years, together(-ish) 20.
Status: BD 8/25/09, she moved out 8/28/10. No talk of D.

Every day is another chance to get it right.
http://www.vachss.com/mission/behavior.html

"Counting days won't buy us years" —Wings by HAERTS
"Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past."  —Lily Tomlin
"When we commit to our lovers, we implicitly promise to forgive them. There is no other way we can live with someone for better or worse or until death do us part." —Dr. Frederic Luskin

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Resources: Self-Focus & Paving the Way
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2010, 12:44:38 PM »
RCR,

More than likely you have already written about this somewhere. Maybe you could link it up to this  for an answer.
I just want to point out to there seems to be some confusion when "paving the way" runs into your boundaries.
The Boundaries IMHO should come first. Before you worry about paving the way.
You can not drop your boundaries to pave the way. I do not believe that will work.
If you want to move this to a new thread that is OK but I thought that some people might need a reminder.

Offline RollercoasteriderTopic starter

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    • The Hero's Spouse
Re: Resources: Self-Focus & Paving the Way
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2010, 05:15:46 PM »
I don't think I have addressed it specifically, but it is a good topic for the Newsletter and I will start thinking about coming up with something.

As for Paving the Way, it is also important to note that you re Paving the Way regardless...but what are you paving it with, and of course you it's not the Way home if it is paved with negativity.

 

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