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I am sitting here with my mouth hanging open. Can somebody be really be so self absorbed that they forget their mother was in a wheelchair? Wow!
Interesting thread here.  Something that I've pondered is this:  how many marriages reconcile after the MLC spouse has actually married the AP?  When this happens I wonder if the MLC spouse just gives up trying to get back to the marriage.   

What I see with my H is that OW holds tremendous power over him and will not let go until he becomes her H.   My H is so addicted to her and how she makes him feel sooo good in the bedroom.  He is emotionally very weak so just follows her lead for fear of losing her.  Even if she leads him right to the altar he would go along with it.   Once there he might wonder wtf? But still go along with the marriage and do his best to make it work. 

Those reconciled or attempting to reconcile - has your spouse actually married the AP and then returned? 
Our Community / Re: Wondering how best to move forward
« Last post by barbiedoll on Today at 06:40:13 PM »
I too have much resentment over the pain inflicted on my daughters and I wish with all my heart that they never knew about the OW. It is a massive blow to daughters and to see them weep is part of the memories. He believed they were "adults now " and would want him to be happy, they will come to accept this and "divorce is not the big deal it used to be...happens everyday". He did not see their pain...I did. I am not sure how they truly feel in their deepest thoughts, if they respect him, if they judge me or if they still harbour anger. They now say they just want me to be happy. I have applied my detachment skills to the relationship  my husband has with each of his daughters. It is his job to do that repair work ...not mine.  Not to mention his relationship with 3 son-in-laws that have definitely judged him

Yet throughout the first 20 uses of her life, he would have done anything for her and her sisters.

YES! It is husbands entire life was about these girls. He always always put them ahead of himself, looked after them, made sure they were safe and he just loved to surprise them with trips or treats. He was a good family focused father . And then he became someone else. My youngest daughter will always have the picture of me and her at her university graduation. She will always have that memory and the card signed only by me.

The dog is indeed an odd thing to do for a man that travels ! Leave the dog alone for extended periods of time? That is strange .  Is he in fact living alone?

We do have many similarities ...don't we ?  Onward we go...

Our Community / Re: Replanted and Growing 2
« Last post by Azioni on Today at 05:55:03 PM »
He went for first appointment yesterday.  Says he likes the guy, so thats a positive. First step on a long path.
Our Community / Re: Three Drawers
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 05:23:59 PM »
These are the things I need to forgive and I’m not sure how long it will take or how to do it.

It will take as long as it will. It may sound silly, or simplistic, but it is the only way. How, I do not know. Each of us will find the way(s) to it. It will be different for us all.

They are soul-changing wounds much deeper than life-changing MLC fallout like money or divorce or possessions.

They are. They are horrible, difficult, hurtful, and leave a big wound in our soul. Even if, at least for me, money is a huge wound.

Being treated like nothing, and a marriage and 18 years being nothing, is definitely a nagging Drawer 3 Toxic Ghost for me and I'm not sure why I can't shake it off.

Because it were 18 years of your life.

Of course you aren't nothing. Nor was your marriage. Nor even to your real husband. The MLC creature is not your real husband.

So, I've been trying to imagine why anyone would cut you dead and erase you in silence.


What’s the hardest thing for you to forgive?

Disrespect, the lies, physical violence, cleaning the bank accounts, refuse to give me money when I needed while loaded and leading a luxury life.

OW (1 and 2) I don't really care about. Money is the one thing that made/makes the big difference. I know this does not sound very kind or nice, but it is the truth.

Tresur, you are doing what I, and others, have done. You are rationalizing, or trying to, something that is not racional/logic (at least not for us). Not that long ago a friend told me "Not everything is/has to be logic, Anjae". I replied I knew, but it would be much easier if everything was racional/logic.

It would also be much boring, but that is another matter.

MLC is also an emotional crisis. MLCers run on emotions - often on HS is written than the MLCer is dead and has no emotions, but, in fact, many of them are a whirlwind of emotions, usually contradictory ones.

MLCers are angy, enraged even, people. That is not lack of emotions, it is excess.

But still it gnaws at me and I don't know how to get rid of it?

You don't have to know. Not now, at least. Allow your self time and latitude. Be kind to yourself. Don't rush or press yourself. Be it for LBS or MLCer, MLC and its consequences is a marathon, not a sprint.
Our Community / Re: How do I deal with the rapid change of Love to Hate?
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 05:03:16 PM »
This is quite the journey. 

Indee it is.

Hope the lawyers can help you.

Many MLCer lose sightof what makes sense, including when it comes to the kids. And, of course, the MLCer will often, if not always in some cases, disregard the LBS opinion.
Our Community / Re: It's OK to Not Be OK
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 04:57:03 PM »
Loved the  multi-colored Flintstones friends, Offroad. I have lots of those. They're really cool, and we can always meet a new one every day.

I don't see that as a level of crazy intensity. I see that as passionate and ambitious. You want to know all you can about the things you love, do them well and do them right. What is wrong with that?

For me there is a difference between wanting to know all I can about things I love - say a band I discovered, and author, a director, an artist, and going crazy/overboard with running and EMS. The latter I see as excessive, and maybe even a strange need to prove something. To ourselves of others. The wanting to know everything about an intellectual/cultural issue is personal, and often, internal. The second is external  and a bit show off and a call/need for attention.

"Gifted" is a bit silly to use. I also prefer multi-faceted or renaissance soul.

To be a specialist is boring and does not allow for different interests.

Quality girls don't like drunk guys chasing them. Nor guys who chase several girls. I get the drink may allow a shy/more introverted guy some guts, but it is not appealing. Don't go the drinking route again. Not sure I understand why the neurologist wants to get you off the AD. What does she things it will happen/how will it help you?

I was thinking Renaissance...actually it's only relatively recently that we compartmentalise things so much - 17th/18th century saw it diverse passions as a plus!

It was still seen as plus in the XIX century and at least first half of the XX century. Heck, it was still a plus in the 1980s. Problem is now there are too many things/too much information. It makes things more complicated.
Our Community / Re: Mixed messages and bread crumbs of hope?
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 04:39:34 PM »
Mort, I would call those things you listed "I want you in my life, but also want to lead a MLC life", not breadcrumbs. Those things are typicall clinger "I don't know what I want, but I really want a new life, but I also want you, but..." stuff.

Kikki's (she is an old timer that does not post much anymore) husband used to bring food, going so far as leaving it at her doorstep. Like Mr J, he was a über clinger. Except Kikki's husband was one for longer than Mr J because Kikki remained closer to him for more time than I did (they have kids).

I remember November 2017 Mr J bought and send me a CD single from one of my favourite bands. He would also buy and send me magazines and other CDs. I had already left, he wanted a new life with OW1 (except he didn't because he had said more than once he wanted to be friends with me and still be on my life, providing I was not his wife/allowed him to lead his MLC as he wished).

Never mind one year later he was already with OW2 and had run to court, saying I was the worst wife on earth among other very nice things.

And lets not mention the "Would you like to meet on a hotel bedroom? I know this is not the way of sorting things out, but if you want to, I will do it", said February 2008 when he broke with OW1. My answer was "No".

So, what  do these guys want? I think what Mr J wanted, the MLC life, OW/OM included, and the LBS. And the LBS has to approve of whatever crazyness they do/want.

So I guess in reverse...if we completely detach and then need to leave bread would do things like pick up their favourite candy when you seen it, or invite them out to the park with you and the kids (expecting a no, but happy for a yes), drop them a text their favourite band is in town...remaining detached and unaffected, expecting nothing from these things...but leaving them out there as a sorta trail back in. An excuse for a nice conversation or what have you.

Maybe. In me personal experience that didn't happen. When I completely detached I no longer wanted to leave any breadcrumbs. Plus, Mr J had got to deep into MLC, had been too nasty, and I was in a different place.

Our Community / Re: Three Drawers
« Last post by Mae on Today at 03:59:38 PM »
Hey Treasur,

Maybe you don't try and eradicate 'the gnawing at your soul'....maybe it's just a case of acknowledging it's there, you may wish it away or do everything you can to minimise or eradicate it, but alas it persists.....and just 'is'. Maybe in accepting your life as it is now, painful and yet hopeful, not what you imagined it might be and yet full of possibilities unseen, full of memories that are perhaps now scarred......this is life, you may never reach a sense of peace and closure, it may always feel 'off centre' and 'skewed'. For now there's gnawing but it's only a small part of your life and there are a great many 'other' things that make up your life too.
Our Community / Re: Crazy Train to Nowhere - 3
« Last post by Reallytrying on Today at 02:45:03 PM »
D also mentioned that OW texted H “where are you” followed by several texts with angry face emojis. She commented that it didn’t seem like the most mature communication. She saw him reply that he was at the store with her but she didn’t see anything further of their conversation. When he was bringing her home she asked if he was going to stay until I got home. He said no he was just going to drop her back. He commented that I probably wouldn’t be back for awhile because he knew from my call that I was a good distance from home.
She told him that she had stuff for him for Valentine’s Day so could he come in to grab those. She gave him the candy that we had gotten him and they began to watch tv. He stayed here several hours after that (including at least 2 hours after I got back). It’s odd that he initially seemed to be in a hurry and instead relaxed and stayed there until quite late - latest he’s been around in months.
Sometimes I wish I could know what was going on in his head. Other times I think that might be scary 😱
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