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Author Topic: My Story Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....  (Read 3786 times)

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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My Story Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« on: November 24, 2017, 01:07:42 AM »
New thread time and perhaps an opportunity for reflection.  H and I actually had an R talk last night that was initiated by me but not planned.  The conversation left me feeling flat and frustrated at how long this process is.  There was nothing particularly negative said but I heard him say, once again, that if we got back together, people would think I have rocks in my head.  I just said “so you keep saying”.

He picked up on a change in mood that I would have thought was subtle but it wasn’t to him and he asked me about it.  I just told him that I was tired and sick of things being complicated.  To be fair, he probably left the conversation feeling a little flat too because I did share the realisation that I came to on the weekend about the fact that while I have options, they all suck.  I also said once again that this limbo situation that we are in is not likely to have a long shelf life.

I also talked about OW and asked if she knew that the kids would never have anything to do with her.  He was pretty quiet on that and said that he figured that if she did move to our town, they would have to choose whether or not they would want to have a relationship with him (and presumably her).  I told him that if she did move here, they would see it as him making the choice to have a relationship with her over them and that they would never want to co-exist.  I probably overstepped here and it felt a bit desperate on my behalf.  I am not sure how it landed on him.  He may have thought that I am wrong and they will come around.  I guess it doesn’t matter, he’s the one that is going to have to test that theory.

I asked him about the Xmas plans with his parents because they had sent a ‘save the date’ text to the kids but then cancelled that because the date didn’t work with the rest of their family.  They haven’t sent another text but I have heard that they are thinking about moving the get together to boxing day which is also the day I had mentioned to H as the day I might go and visit them.  I therefore wondered if they had agreed to this and were expecting me.  I asked H how they felt about our situation and he said that they are still frustrated at our ‘happy families’ act.  I expect that they would be more comfortable if I wasn’t there so I suggested that H work out the details and take the kids.  I am not looking forward to that day because I already feel punished for his bad behaviour.  I will work toward turning that around and maybe making alternative plans for the day.

Last night’s conversation made me realise how those sneaky expectations have been growing because I was disappointed at the lack of forward movement.  It hurt to hear H still contemplating a future with OW and describing it in terms of ‘taking it slow’.  He told me that she is not too happy about the amount of time he spends with us but he is not planning on changing that.  Overall, I think that they are perhaps in an OK place right now.

H seemed to hover after that conversation and make the type of small talk he does when he is temperature checking me.  He has also called me 3 times today which is very unusual.  He had a reason for each call but a pretty loose one.  He had a boozy lunch planned with his male work colleagues and told me about it yesterday.  I asked him if he was going to one of the friends’ micro-brewery’s but, when I looked at his face, I quickly changed that to a strip club.  He laughed and told me about the fairly derelict place they are planning to go.  We had a bit of a laugh about some of the sorry sights he might see but agreed that they would have a good laugh. 

One of the phone calls was to explain why he’d sent me an email about his Grandmother’s inheritance but had just written 'FYI' on the email.  He explained in great detail that he had written an email telling me that the club was as ordinary as he imagined it would be but then thought that was a bit wrong to talk about a strip club in the same email as his Grandmother’s inheritance.  He then spent another 15 mins chatting with me and ignoring his friends.  When he called later, it was to tell me that he is not going on a ride with his Harley club tomorrow but will be doing a call out shift at work to make some extra cash for the family.

He also made a point of telling me that he'd been in a foul mood all day and was drinking mid strength beer because he knew himself well enough to know that it wouldn't take him much to get drunk today and that the mood he was in was not likely to make him a happy drunk.  I got the distinct impression that he was trying to be the good guy tonight which I guess I am grateful for.

A couple of months ago, I was reading an entry from an LBS who was listing the things she would like in her next relationship.  I copied the text because it resonated with me and now I can’t remember who I copied it from so I apologise in advance for not quoting properly;


So now, I think about my ex-boyfriend a lot. I would want to marry a man like him. We had our problems, but we were young, who didn't?

- I could talk to him about anything.
still find myself pouring my thoughts out to him
- We had arguments, not fights, that got resolved before we went to sleep at night. He absolutely hated drama, and never created any. We very rarely fought, this was probably a problem
- All of my friends liked him, and he liked them. Didn't try to run any off.
- He wasn't the jealous type. Quite the opposite, he loved it when guys looked at me. He would tell me that they were jealous of him.
- He never tried to make me jealous.
- The relationship wasn't all about him. It was a partnership and we had to work together to make it work.
- He knew how to compromise.
- He could control his temper, and rarely ever got angry. You had to work hard just to piss the guy off. He was that easy going.
- He didn't yell, insult, put down, or demean when he was angry. Not once did he ever call me "crazy", not even in anger.
- He didn't bring others into the mix to be controlling or manipulative. Or to make me feel like people were against me (no negative advocates, or flying monkeys)
- He wasn't a liar.  (pre MLC)
- He could admit when he was wrong, and actually would say, "I'm sorry" He had his ego in check. 
- He could accept "No" for an answer.
- He put "us" first.
- He was loyal. We broke up, and got back together. That's when things went south.
(N/A)
- He respected and appreciated my time and efforts.
- He did the little things.
- He didn't take himself too seriously
.He has a great sense of humour but is also very sensitive to critisicm
- He didn't care what others thought of him. He currently cares too much about this but also claims not to
- He had my back (something the XH never had), and didn't throw me under the bus (which the XH did constantly to save himself and/or make me look bad).
- He was polite, and had integrity.
- He didn't invade my privacy, and gave me space when I needed it. And vice versa.
- He wasn't jealous of my relationships with my friends.
- He wasn't my biggest critic, and hiding it behind the guise of "trying to help me."
- He wasn't invested in holding me back or keeping me down. The opposite, he encouraged me and was my biggest fan.


I need to stop there, but the list goes on. I want to find another one just like him. I miss having someone like him in my life. And if I'm lucky, I won't let another like him get away. 


When I read this list I found myself thinking, no wonder I can't let this guy go, he ticks every box.  I am grateful to have this version of my H even in MLC.  It is very easy to be around him.  If anything, he puts me on a pedestal.  It makes this a very frustrating wait.

I am reading a brilliant book at the moment and highly recommend it to everyone.  It's called "The Shadow Effect" and is written by Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson and Debbie Ford.  It is not just about the MLCer, it is very enlightening and useful for our mirror work too.

Epic post, with nothing new, over  :)

Last thread http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9268.0
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 01:11:35 AM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 06:53:45 AM »
Well Hope,

Sometimes one does have to wonder what it will take for these Mid-Lifers to figure out their stuff... If they ever do.....

My Christmas planning is somewhat similar... Christmas Eve, the kids and Mid-Lifer then on Christmas Day, she does a runner and takes the kids to visit her mom (SIL is out of town this year) and, as was the case the last couple of years, I am not invited which is fine for me... ...
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Offline Reallytrying

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 07:19:19 AM »
Attaching. So sorry you are back in this sense of limbo.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 07:42:59 AM »
Attaching hope. Hmmm - my husband checks just about every box on the awesome boyfriend list. He was a great guy - now - depressed and selfish with no empathy.
But still worth going through all this crap for.

Just curious on your signature line. Does your H have the same OW he had when he left the first time?

Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 11:56:31 AM »
Long, slow process for sure. Agonizing especially around the holidays. It is interesting how honest your H is about OW. Maybe honest isn’t the right word—maybe just that he’s willing to discuss it? I do wonde if he has any concept of how hurtful that is to you. I’m sure he does on a level. This is the time that detachment really comes in handy. He’s working through something and you are seeing it first hand. It’s progress for sure. But excruciating. Stay strong.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 03:28:35 PM »
UM - Glad you are ok with W doing a runner to her mom's on Xmas day.  It is amazing what we get ok with isn't it  :-\. I think that I would really enjoy the day if I did go to MIL's but I would also get the 'so close but yet so far' feeling too which I am already sick of.

Schratz66 - sounds like your guy is also lucky to have you if he's worth it after all this. To answer your question, this isn't the same OW.  This one is totally different from OW 1 (or whatever number she really was).  OW 1 was all about herself and her career and she kept H at arms length.  I think that's part of what made her attractive. 

This one is all about H and has been offering to move to our city since May.  Even H described her as a bit stalker-ish before we split.  She knows his movements ALL the time.  I think this version comes with a lot more guilt and she will be a lot harder to get away from because she is an integral part of his job.

H was more committed to the first OW and tried to get people used to her.  She had more control over him and he was prepared to be publicly seen as her boyfriend.  This time, he was contemplating breaking contact with her before he left (and had tried), was saying that he'd wish he'd never met her and that IT wasn't about her but is also won over by her devotion (I think).  The night before I saw an email from her declaring her love for H, I saw a drunk text from him to another woman.  I asked H if OW knows about the other woman and he claims that she does.  Lord knows what she is telling herself that makes him worth it to her.

KIT, I think he does know that its hurtful to me.  That's the impression I definitely got the other night.  I think it scares him when I look worn out.   Most of the time, I look like I couldn't give a crap about what he does which is a huge relief to him but probably also keeps him a bit stuck, unless she is adding pressure from her end.  I get the impression that she does and then backs off because she knows she's pushing him away.

I don't really hide my feelings because I have learnt that he can see them anyway and I have a strong desire to be congruent.  I am happy when I am with him so that's why it looks like I couldn't give a crap.  Every now and then, like the other night, I am not.  It is what it is.  What will be, will be.

S14 is going through a rough patch at the moment and one of his friends called me to tell me that he is planning to run away with another friend tomorrow.  His schooling is not going well and he seems to think he will be a billionaire by the time he is 16 so school is unnecessary.  He has been making money on the stock market lately so his head size has inflated a little as a result of that.  It is challenging keeping his feet on the ground.  We are very relaxed parents but I am tightening the boundaries a little right now to remind him that the fences are there for his protection and he will only get treated like a child, instead of a teen, if he wants to act like a child.

Not surprisingly, H is a lot softer on him than I am.  Even S14's friend told me that she thinks he is taking advantage of me.  The 2 most important males in my life are doing the same thing so there is some mirror work there for me for sure.  H is taking S14 and his friend to the river tonight for a camp out which means that the running away plans will be thwarted. S14 and I are normally very close and he seems to have become less angry over the last couple of days so I think his plans had probably changed anyway.  Our intel (from his friend) helped us to work out that he was going to run (ride) away to the river block anyway so I was tempted to let him go out for his ride with his friend and when he didn't return at the agreed time and presumably didn't answer his phone, we would drive to the river.  I am fairly confident that he would decide it was a really bad idea about 1 hr into the ride and would return home, possibly never telling us what he'd planned to do but having learned a lesson.  Risky, I know but it was a calculated risk. 

D15 may finally have some success on her job search, she is doing a trial shift today at a really cool urban wear store and is super excited.  It is the type of job that every kid in high school wants because of the clothes and shoes that they sell so that will be a nice turn around for her if it all goes well.  Up to now, she has really struggled to land a job which is really weird because she is so  polite, organised, well spoken, warm and intelligent.  I felt like the first place that called her in for an interview would probably hire her and it looks like that might be the case.  She is a big believer in things happening for a reason and this would be her pick of all the jobs she could possibly get so my fingers and toes are crossed for her.

D18 is at a schoolies festival this weekend to celebrate the end of school and exams.  She feels like she is coming down with tonsillitis though so I feel so sorry for her because she has been looking forward to this forever.  I may have to go and pick her up before the festival ends on Sunday night.  Other than that, she is still driving despite getting her licence disqualified for speeding because she entered a safer driver agreement which extends her probationary period by a year.  The whole experience cost her over a $1000 so I think the lesson has definitely been learned there!.

I got my nose pierced yesterday.  That is my little act of rebellion.  Can't wait to show my parents and in-laws  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
Be careful with the nose piercing H&F, sounds very MLCerish.... ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2017, 07:40:52 PM »
Be careful with the nose piercing H&F, sounds very MLCerish.... ;D

I know right!!  I am just getting started.  When I first saw your warning, I thought you had some medical horror story to share  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Seekingpatience

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 02:15:51 AM »
Hi  hopeandfaith  :)

 nose piercing eh? Getting badass!... ;)

Attaching with peace and strength

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2017, 05:13:03 AM »
Welcome to your new thread h&f!

H  is still unsure " if we got back together people will think you have rocks in your head"
Silly H doesn't realize WE ( LBS) don't care what people think!!!

(Hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline serenity

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 10:25:12 AM »
Following along h & f,

I think you're doing amazingly and I bet your piercing looks really pretty.

Sad to read your H continues to say idiotic stuff but hopefully he's still progressing

X

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 11:00:30 AM »
Following Hope 😊
Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger

Offline No expectations

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 02:19:46 PM »
 Following along, Hope.  Love the idea of a new piercing!  I've decided on a couple new tattoos.  Just need to find the time.
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2017, 02:27:06 PM »

H  is still unsure " if we got back together people will think you have rocks in your head"
Silly H doesn't realize WE ( LBS) don't care what people think!!!


Yawn!  Wake me up when you want to say something different H.

Serenity - I do like my nose piercing.  It is delicate and pretty and both of my girls are in the process of getting one too so it's meaningful to us as well.

Noex - hope you find the time for your tattoo's.  I read about them on your thread.  Girl power  ;D

I didn't see a lot of H over the weekend because he worked and took S14 away camping.  The camping expedition was just what the Dr ordered for S14 and H sent me videos and pictures of them attaching an old 2 stroke motor onto a really old little boat and then boating around a tiny dam.  Real 'boys will be boys' stuff that got them out in the sunshine and being creative instead of planted in front of their devices.  H stayed until after 11pm last night and was vague about his work plans for this week so that probably means he is going to OW's town.

I was just reflecting on the fact that I am not following any of the 4 agreements at the moment and I have a pretty strong desire to hurt H or at least be snarky at the moment.  I got a text from an energy healer this morning that I have been going to see saying that she'd been thinking about me which is funny because I had a dream about her last night.  Me thinks it might be time to make an appointment so that I can get my little ducks in a row a bit more.  This funk is definitely sticky even though intellectually, I knew to expect it  ::)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 04:52:32 AM »
Following along, Hope.  Love the idea of a new piercing!  I've decided on a couple new tattoos.  Just need to find the time.

The tattoo idea has occurred to me too a lot lately. I got a VERY nice Phoenix done a couple of months after the house was sold and I had to move... And I have been thinking about a couple of other motives...
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 01:35:17 PM »
Attaching, H&F.

I, too, have been eyeing a new tattoo (a small one). Love the idea of a nose piercing.

I'm sorry that things feel like they are in limbo again. I think the funk is making the rounds. Take care of yourself.
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 05:41:44 PM »
Handpuppets,  I have noticed that the funk is making the rounds.  Kinda comforting really but I don't wish it on anyone else either.

UM, the tattoo thing seems to be really popular and I can definitely see why.

Bit of a rough 24 hours in my household.  S14 ran away from home late last night but luckily, D18 noticed him gone within about 15 mins and we were able to find him within an hour.  He had been dropping hints earlier in the day so I asked him if he was planning to run away and he convinced me that he wouldn't because its stupid, too far, no money etc etc.  He also told me that he had fantasised about it and would have probably headed for the hills rather than our block.  I found him on an unlit country road heading to our block.

He had a terrible day at school yesterday and earned himself 2 detentions.  He basically got kicked out of every class he attended and was disrespectful and arrogant - even when he text me to tell me about it.  H got a phone call from the school and I rang them also to talk about S14's grades and teacher selections for next year.  He is not on their radar as a problem student despite the fact that he is trying very hard to get on the radar! The year level coordinator was going to follow up and have a supportive conversation with him today but I have decided to keep him off and take a day off work as well.  He has been grounded and his phone and computer have been taken away from him.  He was warned about this and handed them over without a fight.

I am grateful that the drama of last night, which included being found by the police before I found him, seemed to crack his tough exterior and I got a tearful but more available version of him when we got home.  He is sounding very depressed and confused but he has started talking to me so I will keep that going.  I have been doing some research online about what other support is available and will share that with him too.  There are a lot of good websites available that also have forums and web chat options.  I think this will be a good first option for him because he is not yet ready to ask for help.   The similarities between S14 and H are too numerous to mention and even the management of the 2 situations have similarities in so far as making sure that S14 has some space, privacy and his feelings are validated.  My need to ascertain his safety by grounding him and taking away his computer etc is actually isolating him at the moment but I need to really get the lines of communication open between us and metaphorically hug him hard.

H is away at the moment and isn't supposed to be home until Friday.  He was very available yesterday and encouraged me to call him if I needed him at anytime - even when he was locked in the simulator.  He asked if he should come home today and I discouraged it because I know that S14 DOES NOT want to take any advice from H.  H has since text me to say that he is coming home on the first flight tomorrow morning.  I don't want S14 to be aggravated unnecessarily so I will try to help him see the love in the actions without feeling compelled to take advice from someone who is clearly not walking the talk.  Its kinda like watching a train crash in slow motion and I am walking a fine line between letting it play out but also protecting S14 and throwing H a few tips, which he always gratefully receives.

I am grateful that he is stepping up in the only way he knows how and I am super proud of myself for not taking the MANY opportunities to throw truth darts.  For example, S14 said that it broke his heart when he left last night and when I told H, he said "so why did he do it then?"  Good question H, I woulda thought you might be able to answer that one  ::). S14 also said that he just needed to go and that he thought he would feel better but now he feels trapped again at home.  He said that he can't make any decisions but the ones he does make are all bad and self destructive.  S14 can see the similarities between himself and H and is worried about it.  I told him that the major difference is that he is supposed to be going through this now and not when he is 44 and it blows up his family.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 05:06:11 AM »
Sigh, parenting teenagers, it’s great isn’t it 🙄 I went down this road with my boy, similar age. He’s lucky he’s got a good mama there for him (and dad, who despite everything, and being in another state sounds like is doing the best he can too, and working with you), you’ll get him through. Maybe enough of a wake up call to get H in a new headspace re his family, would be a welcome byproduct of difficult situation 😊
Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 06:10:07 AM »
I am so sorry h&f!

There is no doubt in my mind that s14's acting out is all caused by his father!
Amazes me that "dear old dad" can't see it!  Good that you withheld your answer from H by phone but I am thinking that maybe a face to face once H is home might be good!
His actions are not only affecting himself they are affecting all of you!
S14 is proof of that!
He (H) has been at this a long time and actions have consequences! I know you can present the "facts" without pressure or blame!  Think about it!

Maybe its time maybe its not, only you can decide and I count on you knowing when it's right! 

You are the strong safe consistent presence in everyone's life!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 06:23:22 AM »

You are the strong safe consistent presence in everyone's life!
(hugs)
31

Which is another good reason to make sure you look after yourself too, h&f  :)
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 10:44:46 PM »
Glad your son is safe and sound.  Communication is vital and I understand why he sees too many similarities between himself and his father and is worried about himself.

I was wondering if a little more distance between himself and his father may be beneficial, as the mixed messages his father is giving by dropping in all the time whilst sleeping with another woman would be extremely confusing.  His father is a terrible role model for him in so many ways and I can see why your son wants to be nothing like him.

"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 04:47:54 AM »
Thanks for your support CLG, 31, Treasur and SF.  Big hugs to you all.

S14 seems to have settled down and the extra attention seems to have drawn him back toward us.  He had Tuesday and Wed off school but went back today without incident.  He was left unattended a few times on Tue & Wed and didn't take the opportunity to run again.  I still asked D18 to keep an eye on him tonight while I went out and she agreed.  She came home with a T-shirt that she picked up at a work product night for him which said "I am right where you left me".  S14 has a hearty sense of humour and loved it.  Its a surfie brand too so it's suitably 'cool'.

S14 seemed quite happy when I got home after work yesterday.  H had been there since lunch time and I was really hoping that S14 wouldn't have had to fake being ok to avoid having a 'deep and meaningful' with H.  He looked genuinely comfortable though and enjoyed an evening watching his favourite Netflix series with us.  He is on track to get his phone and computer back tomorrow and has coped with his grounding and consequences really well.

31, I was prepared to have a frank conversation with H last night but the opportunity didn't present itself so it can wait.  I am sure an opportunity will present itself soon enough.

SF, a wise friend said that he might be lashing out because I won't.  That was a lightbulb moment for me and makes me more aware of the impact our situation has on the kids.  Having said that, S14 seemed to genuinely enjoy H's company last night so I think he would have preferred him there overall.  He just needs to know that its ok to be angry and disappointed in someone you love and by spending time with them, it doesn't mean that you support their actions.

I have a sneaky feeling that OW might be coming to town for the first time this weekend.  H is going to a 4 day cricket event and has told us that he is going with friends but he also went out and bought a new rug and lights for his room.  My spidey senses are a little heightened right now.  My suspicious nature thinks that he has stepped up so well this week with S14 to soften the blow of having the skank in town.  MIL and FIL are also coming to town and H just told me that they are coming over on Sat morning to see me for my birthday.  I wonder if that's all they are doing.  My tolerance for this situation is already very low at the moment so it is a very risky time for him to hurt me more.  If she does come, I will be praying for it to combust in a very big way.  Things that look great for her from the outside often end up working out that way  ;D

This will also be the 2nd weekend in a row that we haven't seen each other much.  Maybe he is avoiding me to appease OW.  He has also mentioned taking the kids to visit his parents on the following weekend so that would make 3 weekends.  In between all this is my birthday and our anniversary.  He is normally tucked safely away interstate so that I could have burrowed and licked my wounds in peace.  Not so.  Apparently he is around on Wed and since he comes over every other night that he is in our town, he will probably come over then.  I dare say we will go out for dinner, which I am sure will be very nice, but just not the sort of nice I want  :-\. Tired Tired Tired.

I went to a lecture on finding your purpose tonight.  This speaker was an author who has been a 'purpose and meaning' researcher for a number of years and was sorely tested when his 20 year old daughter died suddenly 7 years ago.  He was great to listen to and I came away with a stronger resolve to make next year all about me.  I am making some plans for a quiet night in with my best friend on New Year.  That will be a great start.  I HATED last New Year because it was everything I hate in a night out.  I am also about to try out a new app which really helps you work out what makes you tick.  Kind of like a digital life coach.  I'll be sure to share details if it seems to help.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 05:13:20 AM »
Isn't puberty great?

And you have not only one kid who's really there, you have an old guy that should have been long since done but has decided to go for a rerun....

I am glad that S stayed put and that he seemed to be OK when you got back.. that is a good sign...

Thinking about it, that T-Shirt is quite appropriate for one that the Mid-Lifer would like the LBS to wear... How ironic...  Just shouldn't be TOO cool...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:14:57 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 05:17:33 AM »
Sounding good h&f!

You are right, sweet son needs to learn how to handle his emotions, he is learning because of you and d18!!!  You are doing great showing him what's right!

Interesting turn if H is really bringing OW "out and around"  as hard as it is it must happen before anything can end with her!

sigh, I can hear your tiredness!!!
(hugs)
31
 
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 10:59:43 AM »
I’m happy S14 is Home and safe. That is always so hard. We want to protect our children from everything. But this may be a wake up call for everyone. We often need these reminders. Even if they scare the bejeezus out of us!

You are doing this H&F. Your tiredness is proof! Hugs

Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 12:43:09 PM »
Glad to hear S14 is home and relatively safe. And I can hear your tiredness too. This too shall pass. *hugs*

Related... I think Sunday's upcoming full moon in Gemini is illuminating our sphere of SELF, and how we approach life and relationships. A reminder that our relationships with ourselves is EVERYTHING and to re-center on ourselves as an avenue towards/within significant relationships. Definitely need to refocus my time and attention and start the new year looking squarely forward.

“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2017, 02:41:36 PM »

Thinking about it, that T-Shirt is quite appropriate for one that the Mid-Lifer would like the LBS to wear... How ironic...  Just shouldn't be TOO cool...

It would actually be a good T-shirt for H to wear too cos he ain't movin real fast.  To add to that, there is a picture of a door on the  back of the t-shirt and a little sign that says 'pub'  ::)


Interesting turn if H is really bringing OW "out and around"  as hard as it is it must happen before anything can end with her!


It will be interesting and considering it would be 2-3 days before my birthday - also brave stupid.  Mind you, maybe he is wanting to blow something up so that someone makes a decision.

I do need to be mindful not to make too many assumptions.  D18 told me last night that H had asked her to go to the cricket on Sat with him but she said she didn't know if she could make it.  By the time she got back to him, he'd arranged his best friend to go but was prepared to cancel him and take D18.  If OW is coming, it would be Sun and Mon.  As Handpuppets so rightly pointed out, Sunday is a full moon and H, as a piscean (? spelling), tends to feel those [Insert evil laugh].  I am semi-prepared so the shock factor has been removed which is a very good thing because that is when it is hardest to respond and not react isn't it.


Related... I think Sunday's upcoming full moon in Gemini is illuminating our sphere of SELF, and how we approach life and relationships. A reminder that our relationships with ourselves is EVERYTHING and to re-center on ourselves as an avenue towards/within significant relationships. Definitely need to refocus my time and attention and start the new year looking squarely forward.


This full moon fits exactly with where I am right now.  I will stand at your shoulder looking squarely forward HP!

Next year =  ;D 8) ;) :)

 
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2017, 03:40:40 AM »
THIS full moon is going to be a humdinger... 1) It is a Supermoon, 2) 6 hours before it is full, Mercury goes retrograde until the New Moon 2 weeks later...
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2017, 04:10:24 AM »
Ok peeps, I need some help.

I have just found out that H is taking OW to the cricket this weekend in our city.  I think this is the first time that she has been here. There is a good chance that she is meeting the rest of his family...the same people that are coming to wish me a happy birthday tomorrow morning.

So far, going to H's rented room has been a comfortable experience because it is un-tainted by her.  She has not met his really nice housemate or his cute little dog.  She has not slept in his bed and gone for breakfast in the cafe that H and I have been to for our little dates.  She has not been on his Harley, which is now conveniently parked at H's place when it normally lives here.  H re-positioned it last week under the guise of having it close by for the Harley ride that he never went on.

No wonder I have felt a withdrawal.  They have obviously been planning this little romantic rendezvous for a couple of weeks so I am sure OW has been all lightness and joy and definitely not pressuring H.  What hurts is that H bought new lamps and a new rug for his room so that they have better lighting.  He cares enough to still try and impress her  :(.

I have therefore drafted the following email because I am sick of hiding my pain.  I don't really care if it pushes him away.  Where's he gonna go?  I won't send it until tomorrow morning so that I can see if I still want to.  I really want the opinions of my friends though. Some of you have thought it is high time for a bit of truth but maybe this is too emotional - Do I even care.

Your thoughts would be super appreciated.

It’s a long time since I’ve sent you an email but you are probably not surprised to be getting one.

Obviously the kids and I know that OW is coming over this weekend.  It didn’t take much figuring out because of your recent home improvements and the vagueness of your ‘going to the cricket with the guys’ lie. 

I find myself wondering if the rest of the family are coming to meet her this weekend and if so, why bother coming to see me for my birthday.  S14's friend confirmed her visit so it seems that me and the kids may be the last to know of your plans and, following on from that, your intentions?

I am sure you are trying to ‘manage’ things so that you minimise the hurt, but you suck at it.  A fact you know well.  So much so, that I am wondering if your actions this week in being there for S14 were to soften the blow for this weekend.  Were they actions designed to fill the tank so that when you make the withdrawal that this makes, everyone still thinks you are a good guy?  I second guess my interactions with you now and I am not sure if you genuinely care or you are manipulating things to keep things comfortable for you.

I am determined to focus on myself and where that takes me but while the door has been left open between us, it still feels like you are cheating on me and it has felt like that all along.  I have been unaware of any visits by her up to now and have been comforted by the fact that she hadn’t met housemate, girlfriend or dog, she hadn’t been in your room and that bed, she hadn’t been on your Harley, she hadn’t been to *favourite cafe*.  Everything felt just that little bit cleaner in my head even if it wasn’t true.  Now, especially with your ‘nesting’ to make it nice for her, it feels very tainted and dirty.  I feel humiliated that if I ever see housemate again, he might pity me or wonder if I really know what’s going on.

I was hoping that you might ask me what I wanted for my birthday and I was going to tell you that all I really wanted was to go to lunch on the Harley.  A few weeks ago, that would have been something I feel you would have been delighted to do.  Now, not so much.  It was a clever re-positioning of the Harley too. I think the pressure of my upcoming birthday and our 20th anniversary is taking an emotional toll anyway but to have this happen within 2-3 days of those things feels especially hurtful.  You knew the timing so you must be incredibly naive if you thought you might just be able to slide that under the radar.   

Just in case you are telling yourself that I am not hurting, this email is to tell you otherwise.  I get sooooo frustrated when I hear you say that you don’t want to hurt me again.  It would be such a noble statement if you had, in fact, stopped hurting me.  Every single day that you are confiding in another woman - probably about OUR son and having your needs met, hurts me.  Whatever you are going through and our separation would hurt so much less if that, which you seem to try and make inconsequential, were not happening.  Surely your monkey arms are about ready to fall off.

Am I to read this maiden voyage to our town (that I am sure she is just thrilled about) as your way of being unable to tell me that you are moving ahead with her?  Did you feel like it was time to throw her a bone because of all the pain she has faced in ‘waiting for you’.  Did you just need a break from hurting her for a while and H&F seems to be doing ok cos she is such a strong chick, plus, she probably won’t find out so I will get a breather?  DO NOT do me more dishonour by making me the last to know if you are planning to formalise your relationship with her.  If you already have, DO NOT humiliate me anymore by having me and the kids be the last to know.  You are free to go H.  You have been all along.  So many of the comforts of home but with a girl on the side.  On what planet is that ok?  How did that become my life??


Thanks in advance  :)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2017, 04:31:17 AM »
Too long. Even I was skimming it after a while and I'm not an MLCer.

They don't have the attention span for all those words.

And you also are jumping to conclusions about his intentions. Just stick to the facts and what you feel, not what you think he feels.

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 04:46:15 AM »
I think your email has put all of your feelings down on paper and let you get out how you feel, but I don’t think it’s one you would send - like you write a letter to someone telling them how you feel but don’t send it. I think we are currently in very similar situations with our H’s - I think they have both been very close contractors, told us all the right things, when we are with them they seem genuine, and we do nice things together, but they are still typical MLCers and being deceptive too. Do you think if his current headspace includes having OW come here your email will have an affect on him? Would silence have an affect on him - is he expecting a reaction from you? I think you thwarted a visit from OW previously when you were away, could your email have the same outcome? So many questions!

Are you feeling ok, or has it thrown you off balance? You strongly suspected this - was that your spidey senses or was the evidence mounting. Very sorry this is happening this week, this should be your special week of happy celebrations, not this rubbish. Thinking of you, you are super strong, and this next curveball will pass soon, I am guessing you are very disappointed though, understandably so, big hugs x
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 04:50:34 AM by CanLetGo »
Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 04:46:24 AM »
Totally second GIG.

Many assumptions about his intentions and actions. 

Why do you feel the need to confront him about this?

Can you let it run off of your back?  Why do you care what he does with her?  Can you get yourself to a place where it is not important? 

Enjoy your birthday.  Keep it about you for you.  Can you let him walk into his own walls? 

Sorry that you are hurting so bad. 
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 05:15:59 AM »
You guys are so awesome.

I am a bit of an essay writer aren't I.  He is coming over tomorrow morning to see D18's new nose piercing.  Presumably while his parents are here.....why?  I thought you were copping $hit for playing happy families?

Maybe I can just wait behind the front door with a plank of wood.  Way more effective than a wordy email  ;D

I can't remember if I mentioned that S14 is going to the cricket with his friend on Sunday.  S14 has promised to "peg a full can at her head" if he sees her.  All I see is my little boy being on guard and forcing bravado all day in case his dad breaks his heart again.  Attaboy H - super duper parenting again  >:( >:(
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 07:14:05 AM »
I'm sorry, h&f

Is it a time to show your feelings with silence or actions more than words, detaching more than engaging with the rollercoaster?
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 01:17:59 PM »
IMHO, I wouldn't send the email. It would only give him and OW power/energy in this case. If you have to say something, just tell him that you are disappointed that he choose this weekend (your birthday) to be an @$$hole. (He can figure out the rest.)

Much light and love to you, H&F. This part really really sucks.
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline Reallytrying

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 01:25:54 PM »
Hi. I understand your frustrations here but I wouldn’t send that email. This is one of those times where the best revenge is to have a fabulous birthday focus on yourself and how special you are. Let him stew in his own guilt about his choices.
Happy Birthday!

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 01:53:19 PM »
I agree with the others on not sending. Believe me I am queen of over-sharing with an emotionless Mlcer. But silence is golden. Sometimes my sole motivation to not send a text or email to my H (when I reeeeeeeeeeally want to) is the fact that not hearing from me makes him feel even worse about his actions. I know. It’s petty. We don’t have to be saints ALL the time.

Hugs—I know this is excruciating. Happens to me every weekend as I’m in the middle of doing something fun. It hits me like a ton of bricks—“wonder what H and OW are doing tonight.”  It sucks. I’m so sorry. You know you deserve so much better. We all do. Hugs
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 05:24:07 PM »
I'm sorry he is going to spend the weekend with the OW but he is having an affair with her and it should be what any LBS would expect? 

It seems you minimize any action your H takes, putting it down to his MLC or some other excuse.  When he does act exactly like an MLCer, you are surprised by it, hurt and if you look back, your first reaction is to draw attention to yourself so the spotlight is back where it should be.  The email is such a thing. In the end, the MLCer is not happy with the affair relationship but for now he is like a smitten young man in love and does have those feelings for her.

You are allowing him to visit the house even though you are gutted by what he is doing?  H&F why would you disrespect yourself so terribly?  This man may be nice to you but he is going very willingly spend the weekend with OW, has bought her tickets, wants his friends, family and flatmate to meet her, purchased cozy stuff to make her feel at home and is going to be intimate with her, and you still act like he is a sick little boy who need a fixer in his life.  He isn't two, he isn't suicidal, he is just a complete a@@ hole.  He has more problems than MLC and maybe a big step back to look at this ridiculous situation would be a good thing.

Take back your life and self respect H&F. You can be kind to an MLCer and then there is plain foolishness.  If my H wanted to come here all the time while he was sleeping with his current OW, taking her on lovely holidays and dinners, buying her gifts, my answer is NO, NO,NO.  He could visit our Son somewhere else, a cheater like this is not welcome in my house, why is your H allowed to do anything he likes in yours?

Sorry if this is harsh  but something needs a drastic change, your kids need to see a mother who doesn't put up with an emotionally abusive man and not an enabler.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 09:08:37 PM »
I didn’t send the email but ended up saying some of it in a conversation which ended with “I need some space, this is not working for me” - which it isn’t.  The conversation was pretty low energy and contained quite a lot of truth darts but was more factual and less emotional than the tone of my email (I think). I feel ready to end the experiment I was running.  Letting him be close initially seemed to provide a boost in the right direction but it also aggravated the OW beyond belief and in turn, created a big problem for him. 

He has obviously chosen to reduce his discomfort and her nagging by hosting her in our town.  No great surprises there really.  Interestingly, he was quick to correct me when I suggested that he was ‘nesting’ by buying things to make her visit more comfortable.  Apparently it has nothing to do with that. 

He said that he hadn’t told me because he knew I didn’t want to talk about her and he didn’t want to talk about her either.  The whole reason for the conversation was because S14’s friend thinks that they are supposed to be meeting up with them at the cricket tomorrow.  This is not something I was going to let happen after the week that S14 has had.

H told me that there was no plan to meet up with S14 – he said he wouldn’t do that.  OW is also not meeting the rest of the family this weekend.

The rest of the conversation confirmed that H is stuck and “can’t see a pathway back”.  I did say that the runway lights have been as bright as they are ever gonna get but he wouldn’t see them if he is looking out the back window.

He confirmed that he has done nothing about his issues despite being unhappy and also, increasingly short fused.  Once again, as his friend, I have showed him where the water is but this horse is still happy to die of dehydration right next to the trough.

The only way that I can see to get what I want, which is a new beginning with or without H, is to distance myself for a while.   His progress turned to cake-eating and so I must respond accordingly.  I am thinking that I am going to tell him that I don’t want to see him until Christmas.  That will mean that he will need to see the kids by taking them out or taking them to his place.  This week is a great week to start this because he is around more than usual (instead of interstate) so the consequences will be felt immediately.  I also need the space to focus on me and grieve the birthday/anniversary days.

I want to thank all of you for your quick and caring responses.  I suspected that you would all say the same thing and had decided not to send the email before I read many of them.  It was just nice to read all the reasons why I shouldn't.  They will be re-read a lot over the next few weeks if my resolve weakens.  Even though it sort of seems like a knee jerk reaction, it didn't end up being that way.  It was more of a logical consequence of the actions, that SF so rightly pointed out, require such consequences.  I know that I would have said exactly the same things to many of you.

I feel so grateful to be part of such a beautiful community of people who don't have to care but do.  You guys set the bar higher for me x
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 09:19:25 PM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2017, 03:38:02 AM »
Had a bit of a 'ho hum' day.  I went to my parents house with D15 which was good.  S14 went to the cricket with his friend and there were no sightings of H.  S14 text him to see if he was there yet at one stage but H told him that they were having a few drinks with his room mate and his girlfriend.  A double date... how sweet!

S14 told me that H's best friend left him to hang out with other people yesterday because H got angry at someone.  His best friend is not the type to abandon a friend so H must have been pretty bad.  Hope OW can take that all away for him because I sure as $hit won't be helping anytime soon.

D15 told me that she had stalked H's Facebook page overnight and 'angry' reacted to a love heart OW had posted in reaction to one of H's post.  Nice one D15.  Must be a little unnerving for OW because H does play super dad so it's not like he has abandoned them.  Probably lots of reassuring H that she is prepared to wait - bless her heart.  That love heart was posted the day after H spent ALL night with his wife being very touchy feely and ignoring OW desperate texts for over 12 hours.  He either told her a bunch of bull$hit, he didn't lie and she just didn't mind his accidental fumbling with his wife of 20 years or it was a combination of both.  Needless to say, it was helpful reminder of how ludicrous this is.  I do forget that he is not normal way tooooooo often.

My current plan is to text H on Tues morning with something like this "I don't think we should see each other for a while.  I am happy to leave the plans for Xmas day as they are.  If you would like to change them, please let me know".   I know its a bit vague but at the same time, he has been spoon fed up to now so I don't think it is necessary to spell it out.  I am interested in others thoughts on this though.

I am picking Tues so that;
A)  I have a few days to cool down and make sure that I am responding and not reacting.
B)  It doesn't look like I am being spiteful and trying to ruin his love fest.
C)  He doesn't realise the impact of what he has done while she is in town and therefore put all his eggs reactively in her basket.

It is also the day before our anniversary and he is probably planning to come over on Tues night after work as normal so that would put a stop to that.

Do I need to put a little more clarity in that text or is it short and sweet enough?  He is a bit of a clinger but he also always respects my boundaries.  If anything, he becomes a scaredy cat.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline serenity

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2017, 10:26:40 AM »
Hi H & F

If it was me at this stage I think I would tell your H what you really think. I've done it several times now. I've gone all guns blazing and sent long, ranting messages to him. He's read them and answered them in detail and even sent me second answers!

I'm not saying it made any difference but sometimes I just think we are too kind to them, too considerate and too accommodating.

I would step away and let the pair of them have each other. I don't think he's being fair to you here and you are quite far along in all this

Sorry I know this sounds harsh and please ignore me if you wish but it's what I would do a this stage!

Maybe it's time to change it all up!

X

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2017, 10:58:18 AM »
H&F,

Why would you tell him what you think the two of you should not do?

Why not just:

I do not want to have any interactions with you until Christmas as planned.

Short, sweet, strong and full of YOUR boundary. 
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2017, 02:25:36 PM »
Thank you Serenity.  Saturday's conversation was a barrage of truth darts which left nothing unsaid.  I was writing in my journal last night and realised that it seems he just ran out of energy to deal with this so he decided to try and frame his mess like a conscious choice.  I tipped a whole lot of cold, cleansing water over that heap of lies.

1P,  I will tweak the email so it's less 'we' and more 'me'.  I already mentioned that I needed some space when we spoke on Sat but I just hadn't decided how that need was going to play out.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2017, 05:29:06 AM »
I am a little late to your recent "MLC party" h&f but I am glad you did not send the email!
Saying what you needed to say is always good....saying what you "think' you should say is more like a threat and a threat to a MLCer is useless, you know that!
honestly, the real issue here is the two of you were " back together" you understood what he had gone through and he "returned"   but truthfully he returned before he was done.  He is still completely in crisis. 
If it was me I would (and did) choose to continue as I had been.  Quiet about our M and no R talks.  No OW2 discussion.  No ultimatums.  No questions.

The time does come when we (LBS) decides to stop being quiet and that is always a personal choice!  Only you can decide if the time is now!

(hugs)
31

Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2017, 02:04:21 PM »
I feel like if I don't add some distance between us at the moment, I am condoning the behaviour.  I know that he is not my dog to train, but it kind of feels like dog training. He has been privileged to be able to spend as much time as he has with us.  He upped the ante with OW, so I will withdraw.  It may not have been his decision to have her here but he needs to be accountable for what he does.

I know this distance is going to hurt him and I know that it might result in a violent swing in her direction.  That will feel awful for me but not unexpected.  I think he needs to be made aware of the fact that I am now prepared to hurt him to save myself.  Up to now, his needs have surpassed mine.  I have always been a "I'll get to my feelings later" kind of gal.

I know it's not about me.  I know he didn't set out to hurt me.  I know he hadn't made me any promises.  I know hurt people hurt people. I also know that I've had enough of that.  He hurt me, he knew this would hurt me and I am not prepared to look the other way. Ignoring it, I feel, makes me too much like her - in light of her red heart Facebook post after he spent the night with me.    In her defence, I did the same thing in April when I thought he had been out for dinner with her (the missing dot incident) and then I let it go and we went out for lunch.  That same week, I approved the purchase of his Harley.  So yeah, can't really throw stones there.  But I can change the cycle and I think the cycle needs changing.  It does for my wellbeing too.  He's not a little boy.  It's H&F boot camp time  ;D.  Wish me luck.

I haven't sent the text yet.  Not sure if OW is still around.  I will send it in the next couple of hours and let y'all know if there is any response.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2017, 01:30:48 AM »
Well I sent H a text mid morning that said “Morning, I need some space so I don’t think we should see each other for a while.  I am happy to leave the Christmas plans as they are.  If you would like to change them, please let me know”

He responded 25 mins later with “Morning, I don’t want to change our Christmas plans. I understand you wanting space but I do need to see the kids. Quite frankly apart from that I don’t firetrucking know what I want!!!! Sorry for the delay in responding I have just been in with (boss) having a catch up! I’m over Work and everything at the moment!

I didn’t respond at all, which was very unusual for me and a little bit difficult but I feel good about it.  Just to embed my ‘doing things differently’ thing, I went for a walk today at lunch but went round the route backwards  ;D

Now I shall go off and meditate. I did a meditation last night and added some affirmations as they came to me.  I sent love to myself, H and OW and it felt good.  I did it again today and I will do it again during my meditation.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2017, 01:45:49 AM »
Sounds perfect h&f - said what you need politely, ignored 'Mr IDK what I want' (not your job), stepped off the rollercoaster. Sometimes NC for a bit is just what we need. Enjoy your peace x
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 01:55:51 AM by Treasur »
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2017, 01:57:57 AM »
I am already enjoying my peace  ;D

I did feel like texting him back and telling him that I do know what I want and this is NOT it!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2017, 05:16:49 AM »
I agree totally with your plan of action h&f!  It is time to put your needs before his!
You are sure now that this is what you need and you are acting, good for you!!
No matter what, you are what is important now.  You don't need to tell him, he'll either figure it out or he won't.  He needs to become the man he is meant to be, you deserve no less than that!

Sending you strength to wait for him to respond the RIGHT way!!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2017, 02:10:43 PM »
They have no idea what they want! So text book. Yes leaving him to it is the best. Great job H&F!
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline Mae

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2017, 07:50:34 PM »
Yes such a typical response.
Me: 49
H: 40
S18, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Medicated & Zombie Like is NC

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2017, 08:45:19 PM »
Nice message H&F....nice message. Proud of you.
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2017, 02:57:07 AM »
The day after our last text exchange was my birthday and our anniversary (yesterday) and I woke up to a text from H which had been sent at 4.19am.  It said "Happy Birthday H&F x.  Believe it or not, today is tough for me as well  :(. Are you at work today?"

I replied with "Well you certainly win the award for the first birthday text!  Thanks x.  I know today will be tough for you too.  Yes I am going to work".

Later in the day, I get a text from the kids telling me that H is picking S14 up from school and will be going to the house to see the kids.  I got home just before 5pm and he was still there  ::).  There was about an hour of small talk amongst the family until I ushered H into our room to talk.  Not surprisingly I started with "this is not what I meant when I said I didn't want to see you". He apologised and said something about meaning to leave before I got there but he wasn't quick enough.  Sure thing H!

I was pretty cross actually and I told him that he put me in an uncomfortable position.  He definitely was not thinking of what I wanted.  We actually had another R chat which was a bit similar to the one on Sat in that he got both barrels for hurting me.  I told him that he needed to manage the kid visitation better and that we couldn't be friends while he was in contact with her.  He stopped me and said "just to be clear, if she is not in my life, can we be friends?"  I said yes.  He then said something about having to start from scratch and I told him that I wouldn't have it any other way. 

He also started to say something and then stopped himself.  I pushed him to speak but he didn't want to.  I said "don't manage me H, this is the $hit that needs to change" so he said something about the fact that it shouldn't have taken this sort of boundary setting to jolt him out of his stupidity.  That's not actually what he said but it was something similar that made me respond by saying that I didn't think so either.  I did clarify that I was not doing it with an expectation of any result and that I thought it may result in him running off and getting engaged to her (ok, maybe that was a bit dramatic) but I didn't care.  He knows that I am not doing this for any other reason than I am fed up with his cake-eating and waffling.

The kids and I went out for dinner without him and we are back to plan A which is not seeing each other until Christmas.  Once again, he has been shown the way, albeit with a bit of  "::), we've had this discussion too many times now H". He asked me why, if he did the work to come back, would I take him back.  I told him that if he did the work, that would be one of the reasons but then I got bored with that part of the conversation too and said "why don't you do some work and then come and see me".

Facebook somehow came into our conversation and I mentioned that I have deactivated my account because I didn't want birthday and anniversary messages making me sad.  He said he thought I'd blocked him.  It had only be deactivated for 2 days and he'd already noticed.  I also cited the love heart post of OW's as a reason for me to come off Facebook because I was embarrassed at how trashy that would have looked to our mutual friends.  He mumbled something about coming off Facebook and I said "if you can't even shut down your Facebook when you say you've been wanting to for ages, what's the chance of you cutting contact with her?"  He asked me to show him how to do it and he did it right then.  He also deleted the app off his phone as an extra measure.

I also shifted responsibility back to him a lot more and told him that I had actually been sending all 3 of us love in my meditations because I realised that I had been sending a lot of mis-directed anger her way.  I told him that I was calling myself out on the fact that a lot of my behaviours had been as needy/desperate as hers and I also told him that it wouldn't matter how needy she was because she never would have had a chance if he hadn't given her one.

After all that, I actually think he walked out feeling better than he had when he walked in.  I am guessing that is because he got attention. Even negative attention from me was enough of a fix. This blast of truth darts has been a long time coming and when I told him that he doesn't get to do what he did and have 'this', he said he knew that.  Finally, someone is making him accountable and I can tell that feels better to him.  I am uncomfortable about the fact that his actions are still so 'other generated' however he is in crisis so unless there is some sort of magic spell cast over him, that would only change gradually.

I actually had a nice meal out with the kids after that and I feel good having got all my angry out too.  I was a little bit surprised that the dude couldn't even go 1 day without breaching a boundary.  He's always been good with boundaries.  Maybe he can sense my dwindling patience.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:00:45 AM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2017, 03:25:04 AM »
Oh my, h&f...go girl...there is something rather lovely about striding into the field of 'zero f**ks given', isn't there?

Hmmm...I wonder what, if anything, your H will figure out and do all on his own now? I liked your 'why don't you start on your own and then come and get me' bit! (And isn't it an amazingly bizarre MLC conversation to have when you need to spell out 'that's right, H, if you want to be my friend, you need to stop having a relationship with an OW'  :o)
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2017, 03:49:00 AM »
Oh my, h&f...go girl...there is something rather lovely about striding into the field of 'zero f**ks given', isn't there?

There most certainly is  ;D

I acknowledged that it seems like an abrupt rule change from me but said that it probably should have been like this right from the start.

H did delete his Facebook app which might be all the 'doing' he can manage for the next 3 months  ::)

In his defence, I have allowed him to spend time with me while he is with OW so why wouldn't he?  No wonder our families are frustrated with us.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2017, 03:53:35 AM »
Tbh, h&f, it has taken me 2 years to get to the 'zero f**ks' field and I had a (mostly) invisible MLC spouse who evidently showed no interest or concern about me at all....sloooow learner...so I think you've done pretty well  ;D

On a serious note, I think it takes the (infamous) time and we all get there when we get there.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2017, 04:01:31 AM »
H&F,

1-Happy belated birthday.  Happy belated anniversary.

2-Nice to see you holding your boundary.  Keep that line in the sand drawn, it is hard, but you are doing it.  Winds will come up to try and muddle it up, but keep it there. 

3-Nice movement out of your h.  I would look at the whole Facebook thing as a kind of present. A little one, but one none the less.  Not expected, not anticipated, but when given, made you happy.

4-Keep on keeping on.  Your shoulders seem to be rising my friend and you are getting taller by the day.  It is wonderful to read.

Hugs to you.
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2017, 06:28:34 AM »

Happy Birthday and Happy Anniversary!
Applaud!  Applaud! Applaud!

The time was right and the right words were said to him!!Well done!
He felt your anger.  It shows him you care enough to be angry!

None of this would of or could of been done any sooner h&f!
 
Love the meditation direction change!  I remember changing my prayers from fixing things to guiding the OW2 to "see the light" in what she was doing, some time later she ended it with my H.

You have reached your limit and now he knows it!

Again I say well done!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2017, 03:53:51 PM »
Wow. Great conversation! The FB thing is great too. All good stuff.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline Mae

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2017, 05:11:29 PM »

Great movement from your H HnF.....that has been a long time coming, what a pleasant surprise on your birthday. Good you have stuck to your boundaries. Sounds as though his time with OW is coming to an end if not already ended.

This is a good update from you.
Me: 49
H: 40
S18, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Medicated & Zombie Like is NC

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2017, 07:51:51 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement all.

I am certainly not holding my breath for him to break up with OW and definitely not thinking that if he does, it will be the end of her.

H has respected the boundaries for the rest of the week and text me to ask me what my movements were this morning because he wanted to see the kids.  As it turned out, he only saw D15 and has taken her for a ride on his Harley.  I considered being out when he arrived and then out again when he left but that is probably not a feasible practice to keep up.  Instead, I was home when he arrived, knowing that they had a limited time frame for a ride, and will be out when they return (thanks to D15 letting me know when that will be).  That will stop him lingering around because no one else will be home and D15 has to get ready for a party.  If he thought the boundaries were loosening this morning, he will probably realise that they haven't when he returns.

He also sent a group text yesterday with a funny dog you-tube video.  Normally, that would be guaranteed to get a response from me but I didn't reply.  Neither did any of the kids.  He sent them all mushy goodnight texts last night (fairly early) and when he arrived this morning he looked like hell.

I was agreeable by text and in person today so he definitely knows I am not being petty or just angry still.  I think that would probably be easier for him if I was because it is more likely to pass.

I was thinking about the "we would have to start again" comment he made the other day because something I read on another thread reminded me of it.  I think this is an important middle step because I am not sure if he might have felt pressure to return to the marriage if he broke up with OW.  I can now remember a number of times that he has said something similar which makes me think that he knows he is not marriage material, so whats the point in breaking contact with OW. Especially since, up to now, H&F did not appear to care.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2017, 10:55:46 PM »
I was disappointed again yesterday when I heard that H did introduce OW to SIL and my 2 older nieces - Traitors!!  Should have known that SIL would have been right on board with meeting her and welcoming her into the family.  They are probably Facebook besties now and ring shopping together  ::)

My middle niece (the anorexic) one rang me today and I screened the call and then went out briefly to take D15 to a friends house.  When I got back, she was here.  I haven't seen her in a month or so and she told me that she was here because she was having a 'freak out' and didn't know what to do with herself.  She is almost at her goal weight and has also come off an anxiety med in the last week (that she should have been off ages ago) so she feels like she is permanently on the verge of a panic attack.

She still needs to eat all meals under supervision and did have plans to be with her boyfriend but thought she might abuse him more than he could tolerate so she came here.  Her mother is ....you guessed it....at the river with her boyfriend.  In her conversation she mentioned that everyone is dropping the ball around her because she is getting 'better'.  I am happy that she considered our place a safe haven for her.

The kids are going to H's place tonight for a barbecue.  It will be their first meal ever at his place.  They are not in a hurry to go and I don't think they will be there too long.  D18 is driving so they have the freedom to leave whenever they want.  S14 has decided he would rather go to a carols event instread.  Reality is biting fairly hard for H now.  He even had lunch with the above mentioned niece today because she works at a cafe that he goes to for a coffee after his run.  He must have gone back to have lunch with her.  I set her straight on a few friendly OW facts because by now, I am sure everyone is taken in by her syrupy sweetness.  She now thinks "she sounds like a psycho" and H looks a bit more like a fool for entertaining her.  Me gossiping about how the situation really is probably makes no difference to anyone but it made me feel better. 
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2017, 01:27:26 PM »
My gut feeling is you haven't given your husband anything to lose. I mean you are taking a break, but he knows that is only until Xmas and that is kind of like saying you are just taking a vacation, nothing more. What does he have to lose by continuing on like this with you and OW?

I think these MLCers need to have their fears stoked. They need their security blanket taken away and dangled in front of their eyes beyond arm's reach.


Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2017, 02:47:21 PM »
GG,

You have me laughing so hard with the picture of the Peanuts character having his blanket taken away!

Thanks for that today.

You are right, when you have no fear of losing anything, you have no respect for it.
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2017, 08:32:11 PM »
It came to my mind yesterday because I had a discussion with my H yesterday (initiated by him) about how he wants to feel secure and I'm not doing what he wants to make him secure and I told him I did want him to be secure but his actions have undermined my own security. I was not willing to bend to what he demanded. I held onto the security blanket and just told him that I wished he could have it back but his actions were making it difficult for me to do that.

The bottom line is these MLCers want it all, with no accountability to anyone and no regard for anyone else. It's unrealistic. They are often walking all over two people (OW and LBS) to get it. It's not just us.

HB says that drawing boundaries on the OW relationship is not going to work. But there are boundaries we can draw that are going to make the OW less attractive. For each person that might be something different, access to their kids, financial, friendship, whatever.

What we have that the OW doesn't have is something that is known to them, something they see as a guarantee, their security blanket. They took it for granted. They don't want to lose that.


Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2017, 01:35:51 AM »
My gut feeling is you haven't given your husband anything to lose. I mean you are taking a break, but he knows that is only until Xmas and that is kind of like saying you are just taking a vacation, nothing more. What does he have to lose by continuing on like this with you and OW?

I think these MLCers need to have their fears stoked. They need their security blanket taken away and dangled in front of their eyes beyond arm's reach.



I didn't really do it for him, I did it for me.  I think he senses that and is worried.  He may well think that he just has to wait out the break but then again, that's a pretty big risk on his behalf.  I plan to continue not being his friend while she is in the picture so that will continue beyond Christmas.  I think he knows that.  I haven't really been able to stick to that up to now so I thought a 3 week goal initially would be good for me too. 

He has booked holidays from 5 Jan for 1 week and then 3 weeks from early Feb.  I know he would want to go to the river over that time and he knows I won't allow OW to do that.  The kids are back at school for his 2nd lot of holidays so they couldn't go up mid-week anyway and D15's 16th birthday is Jan 10 so they won't go up for more than a few days then either because she wants to sit her drivers license test and will most probably have to work.  It wouldn't surprise me if those are his mental dates for getting rid of OW so that I will go with him.  That's what happened last time anyway.

Apparently 11 Dec is Facebooks most popular day for break up messages.  Its something to do with not having to buy Xmas presents.  We can only hope can't we??

GIG, it sounds like you are in quite the commanding position with your H.  Keep up the good work and hold tight to the blanky!

BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2017, 03:20:52 PM »
Just copying a discussion from the discussion thread on Detachment for my own record.


My best guess is that with 2 weeks+ NC, my stupid ice shield has walled up my heart...and with no interactions it hasn't been melted with love, empathy, or compassion.

Generally when this started to creep in, he would pop up and sorta...melt it down again. But it feels like it went up faster this time, and the longer he is away the more solid it gets?


I can definitely relate to this.  Since I have asked for space and not seen H, I am finding the same thing.  I found this when I went overseas for 3 weeks too and I didn't really like it because I seemed to lose compassion and saw H's antics in the same way that others see them.  I pride myself on seeing beyond someone's bad behaviour and this felt a little bit 'bitter' to me.  This time, I am seeing it a bit differently.  What if the bitterness is anger that needs to be felt and worked through. I have a lot of suppressed anger I think and while I am not overtly angry, I am definitely in 'pi$$ed off Elf' mode (plagiarising Treasur from another thread.  Thanks Treasur  ;D).  When I hear H's voice over the phone I am irritated to the max.

People have often asked me how I manage to stay so compassionate and loving toward H and I have wondered if I am just one of those lucky souls that is able to go to Agape love without going through the messy stuff.  I actually think that might be what my ego has had me believe so that I would tolerate this situation far longer than I should have.  Clever little ego.  My defences against actually grieving are awesome.  I believe it is a parallel place to the chasm of liminality and my fingernails are all just about ripped out.

Having said that, there is a small voice that has been telling me to let go because the bottom is actually only a foot below.  The fear of falling into something unfamiliar and out of control has stopped me from actually looking over my shoulder to see that.  I am now seeing this emotional phase in less of an all or nothing phase (i.e love or hate) and more of a spectrum, where hate is at one end but I don't have to go there. 

I am trying to convince myself that I will have the strength to speak my truth when H next decides to sweet talk me and that I can learn to do that with love and compassion.  I have learned that I can stand up for myself quite well if someone tries to step over my boundaries from an angry place.  My best defence is anger so I can meet them there and go toe to toe quite comfortably.  When someone steps over my boundaries gently, i.e charming monster, I am powerless.  I know I am being duped but I can't respond with anger because I don't want to risk being wrong about their motivations and being mean.  Too trusting I think?


My dim period continues without challenge but then again H has been away most of the week.  He is home tonight and I heard him say something about catching up with D15 so I will find out more about that and avoid contact there too.  The weekends are the hardest to manage for sure. 

Even though it's only been about 10 days since I initiated this boundary, there have been a lot of shifts in me.  I actually feel like I am living as if he is not coming back for the first time ever and it's kind of accidental because I have always lived like he is coming back.  Logically, he is probably closer to the end of this than ever before because he is actually now feeling the consequences of his actions and because time also keeps marching on.  I also feel more resigned and accepting of the fact that he may never change because I am finally allowing myself to see how 'big' his lostness is.  It's over my head and it's outta my hands and that kinda scares me but also helps me grab my popcorn and head home.

D18 went out with him on Wed night and he ordered pasta for dinner which is highly unusual.  In fact, when I first found out about OW I used pasta in an analogy.  Months before BD she had made a pass at him and he told me that he'd set her straight about how much his marriage meant to him.  I was furious and said it's like she went to the kitchen of the pub they were all at and changed his order from a salmon steak with steamed veggies (his favourite) to a greasy Alla panna (his least favourite).  Her arrogance over what he might like astounded me.  D18 knew about this and although he ordered a seafood pasta in tomato sauce, she was still surprised.  He also mentioned that he'd had beer for dinner on the previous 2 nights.  From a distance, it is sounding like H is going to push that mask on his face with all his might and console himself with the fact that:
a)  he broke 'it' beyond repair (too late to do anything about it now!)
b)  he is doing H&F a favour by honouring her wishes (because she hates him now  ::))
c)  OW deserves a chance for all her persistence and support
d)  everyone in his messed up family are right behind him.

The whole thing just makes me want to gag really  :-\
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2017, 04:18:04 PM »
H&F: Glad to see an update from you.

I am in the same boat as you regarding being irritated lately when I'm interacting with Mr. HP. I feel like I've lost my patience with him. At the same time, this process is not linear; it's a spiral. We come back around on the anger and grief but hopefully we have progressed along the spectrum.

Even if your H comes up with reasons to put the mask back on, he cannot out run this forever. Hoping for your sake, that he is brought to his knees sooner rather than later.

*hugs*
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2017, 12:09:20 AM »
Do you think it would help if I take a bat to the back of his knees?

There is a lot of anger on the board at the moment I think.  I’d like to think it is healthy and we will all use it to propel us forward into better things or ways of thinking.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2017, 12:21:57 AM »
Do you think it would help if I take a bat to the back of his knees?

There is a lot of anger on the board at the moment I think.  I’d like to think it is healthy and we will all use it to propel us forward into better things or ways of thinking.

Might not help him...you on the other hand... :)

I've just found myself in an angry patch too. IDK...I wonder if it's about the march of time or if the holiday season rubs our nose in the current reality somehow? If the frustration and anger and exasperation is a more comfortable alternative after a while to sorrow. If we just get to a point where we run out of good will steam.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2017, 03:28:44 AM »
Only if he's too tall ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2017, 05:12:18 AM »
Personally I think the anger is very healthy!! It was a stage I avoided also but it came and it was good for me.  Honestly I don't know if it propelled H or not but things did change. Maybe they would of anyway (as maybe he was to that point??) 

Not sure but I was better because of it!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2017, 10:18:17 PM »
Vent time!!

H continues to spiral toward hell and is making sure his kids see it.  A$$hole  >:(

The annual family xmas party was yesterday which is something that I have been dreading for a while because it is the first family event that I have been excluded from.  It got to me on Fri and I was teary.  I think this caused the kids to rally and 2 of them decided not to go.  D18 decided she would still go because she already had plans to go out with her cousin afterward for their first drink together since D18 turned 18 and Niece's anorexia.

H decided to take D15 out for lunch beforehand because she wasn't going and just had to tell her that he hadn't eaten since breakfast the day before.  He had, however, been drinking and said that you can't do both (too many calories).  He had also told me that same thing in the 10 mins I had seen him before he took D15 but I chose to ignore it.  I was disappointed that he had to share his dysfunction with D15 because he knows she worries.  It's almost like he is not getting a reaction out of me so he is trying to see if anyone at all can save him. 

I didn't see D18 until today after she finished work and I asked her if she'd had a nice time....NO.  She had a huge fight with H who stormed off and walked back to SIL's house before attempting to drive home (presumably).  The rest of the group consisted of SIL and my 2 traitor nieces and one of their boyfriends.  D18 put holes in H with all her truth darts but it sounds like he was well entrenched in a drunken pity party and surrounded by his favourite conspirators. 

At the Xmas party, niece won a short holiday for 8 people in Feb so they set about planning this escape.  MIL cheerfully suggested that, as H has holidays then,  he can invite OW and SIL can go with her boyfriend as well as the nieces and their boyfriends.  D18 was standing in the group of this conversation, literally standing there!  MIL's suggestion was met with an enthusiastic yeah by niece which faded when she realised D18 was standing there.  D18 thinks that MIL knew exactly what she was doing and this was her way of forcing D18 to grow up and accept that H is finally happy.

The kids are planning to go to MIL and FIL's with H on Boxing Day but I have told D18 how much I would like her not to go.  I am obviously going to leave it up to her and love her no matter what she chooses but I made sure to point out how it basically goes against everything that Christmas stands for and probably appears complicit in this charade they call family.  I will be pretty surprised if D15 and S14 want to go after they hear about MIL's behaviour yesterday.  They already know that I was dreading being left of Boxing Day.

Another delightful little piece of news is that apparently SIL and anorexic niece are coming to have Christmas with us.....the Christmas that I locked down to the 5 of us!   LIKE HE!!.  I am just going to let the dust settle a little over the next day or so before I decided how I handle contacting H to say that it's them or us buddy, take your pick.  He has already text D18 to say sorry today and say that he will fix 'it' but can she please keep last night to herself.  OMG dude, hit the bottom already  >:(

Wonder if I should just see what happens about Christmas Day.  He probably won't say anything and it will just be a beautiful surprise.  I could open the door with a big wide grin and say "where's my birthday present bit@h?"

Obviously I need some help being godly here people.  Remind me how to be a good person please
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2017, 10:44:39 PM »
Little bit of healthy bi$ch is just fine...helps with those boundaries!

God doesn't want you to be a sap...just to not let the crazy darkness eat you too. So, hence the recommended weapons of calm detached kindness and healthy love for you, your kids and then anyone else in line with what's left!
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2017, 02:59:22 AM »
You would do well to keep away from all of your H's family, they all sound toxic.

Your H has a much greater problem than MLC and that's with alcohol.  Until he deals with that he will be tempted by any woman who crosses his path.  His mother is an enabler and the rest of the family sound pretty crazy too.  Stay away H&F, things could get really ugly during the Christmas season.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2017, 04:33:37 AM »
H&F,

Just want to zero in on one thing:. You told your D18 how you do not want her to go on Boxing Day.

Why? 

Why are you expressing your expectations on your D?  Did you raise her the best you could?  Does she need to protect your feelings?  Does she need to be involved in what is happening with your h? 

What happened with your MIL, from my opinion, was absolutely torrid!  Do you truthfully think anyone would act differently unless they have worn the shoes? 

Maybe you need to try and take a few moments and recenter yourself.  Are you transferring your hurt to the relationship your kids have (or do not have) with their Dad?  They will only ever have 1 true Mom and Dad.  Treasure it, hold it tightly.  Make it grow, for you and h, whether he does or not.

Hugs
1P
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2017, 02:38:41 AM »
Just want to zero in on one thing:. You told your D18 how you do not want her to go on Boxing Day.

Why? 

Why are you expressing your expectations on your D?  Did you raise her the best you could?  Does she need to protect your feelings?  Does she need to be involved in what is happening with your h? 


The kids do not want to hear about or accept OW but it is clear that H's family is supportive of her and the means by which she came into the family. Both parties have a right to their feelings but H's family apparently feel the need to force their views on my kids. 

D18 and I have since had another conversation about this and I offered to phone MIL and talk to her about a way forward which includes respect for each others views.  D18's feelings about OW have been made crystal clear since Sat night so if MIL does the same sort of thing again, D18 will know that it is intentional and that they don't care about her feelings. 

She feels she is better prepared to handle it immediately by leaving the room or coming home but is willing to give it another try because she doesn't want to make a big deal of it now. I would prefer her to not be put in that situation again at all but I respect her wishes.  I can potentially have that conversation with MIL after Boxing Day if need be - or not, if we just don't wish to pursue a relationship at all

I would have spoken with H about this in the past but its not his responsibility to smooth this out for me.  He absolutely is not capable of dealing with the stress of it either.  D18 told me that he said "apparently I have to take my children out to lunch now if I want to see them".  He is pretty heavily stuck in victim mode and this has just been confirmed by his best friend during a long phone conversation.

He was very tight lipped about OW and is possibly also being told that H's happiness is just on the other side of his kids acceptance of OW.  Bf did say something about H wondering why everyone just couldn't be happy and I told him that we were getting the impression that we were to blame from his family too.  Bf has known the family for years and is very disappointed that I have been discarded.  I also told him a few home truths about H's behaviour around us and the concessions that I have made in an effort to influence him toward healing. 

It's funny how one minute everyone seems to be telling me to stop playing happy families and then the next, I feel like we are getting the blame for not playing happy family.  I can't win.  H's bf is pretty tired of his victim behaviour and said he will keep him in his peripheral vision.  He knows without a shadow of doubt that I have done all I can to support him and knows how much I love him.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2017, 03:40:29 AM »
In a rare display of impulsiveness, I have just sent the following email to H:

Hi H,

I feel the need to reach out and tell you that are still deeply loved by your family.

I feel like I have copped heat for playing happy families for so long and now that I am not, I am getting the impression that I am to blame for standing in the way of your happiness because we are not playing 'happy family’ enough.  In other words, by not supporting all your choices it may seem as though we are not supporting you.  As lost as you seem to be right now, I hope you can still connect to the part of you that knows the opposite is true.

I am proud of the kids values and their increasing bravery at telling you how they feel, which you have always encouraged.  We will always be your truth tellers and the truth is, you are living in a reality of your own making. 
Family is everything to me and I will support the kids relationship with you in any way that I can.  They are very worried about you and the number of destructive choices you are making - which you seem to want to display to them.  Why?  Why would you want to load the kids with that much worry?  Why would you risk jeopardising your relationship with them?

Niece seems to think that her and SIL are coming to our house for Xmas lunch?  You haven’t mentioned anything so I am assuming there are crossed wires there.  If not, it’s probably important to mention that I am not comfortable with that because I am not prepared to change the compromise I made with my parents and I am not prepared to lie either.  Let me know if that changes your plans for the day. If it doesn’t, we’re looking forward to hanging out with you and having a chilled out day at home - and hoping to start with an egg breaky!


xx


It felt right.  We shall see how I feel about it in the morning!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #78 on: December 18, 2017, 03:50:05 AM »
And you my cyber friend, IMO, are a great mom.

Keep up the good work.  It is hard as heck, but you are doing it.

Hugs and shoulders,

1P
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2017, 04:02:28 AM »
Thanks 1P.  I am so very grateful for your hugs and shoulders  :)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2017, 04:15:46 AM »
Sometimes a loving truth dart is what we need to send...even if we don't know if it will even hit the dart board, let alone stick. It wasn't a rant or mean..just a bit of real.  :)
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2017, 04:34:03 AM »
D15 is sleeping over at a friends house and just text me a copy of her text exchange with H.  She is giving him the cold shoulder and I was a little surprised and then she tells me that it's because he is at her house and she thinks that's why he's not calling her. 

Guess I won't be getting a reply to my email tonight then  ;D.  Awkward!! 

Wonder if he is going to sneak off the to the toilet to read it.  I hope she somehow sees the first line at least.  That there would be a lil bit of karma because I have had to read the same thing written by her while lying next to my husband.

I totally knew he was in her town tonight because BF just told me that he had tried to contact H over a work matter but his plane had just landed there.  Funny that I forgot and also felt compelled to press send when I would normally sleep on it. 

BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2017, 06:40:52 AM »
You went with your gut h&f!  That is always best!

You and only you are the reason your kids are strong and healthy right now!  H is doing everything possible to make them sick!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2017, 01:30:14 AM »
H responded early this morning with the following email.  Apparently he was still at OW's house according to D15 who spoke to him later in the morning - still at her house.

Hi H&F,

I know that I am (deeply loved) and I want to find peace and get out of my head space. I find it difficult to understand this reality and I am not having a great time of it.

I am extremely proud of our children as well and I want to stop my destructive ways.

SIL did ask about coming up which put me on the spot a bit but I will tell her that it's just us. I too just want to hang out with you guys and start with eggs.

I never could respond in writing very well!

H (full name)


I responded with "You did ok!  :)"

Few things to be grateful of there I guess
a) he responded pretty quickly
b) there is nothing in there that really makes me  ::)
c) he knows its him - that's something, even though he is not at the stage of doing anything about it yet
d) he is going to handle Xmas

The oldest niece text me today asking to catch up after Xmas again.  I just feel too bruised to respond but I think I will accept her invite.  I know I can't trust them at the moment so I will keep that in mind.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2017, 02:05:51 AM »
Actually, that reads to me like a pretty positive glimmer...there's a good sniff of humility there. Of course, it may disappear as quick as it came...and actions speak louder than words...but more positive than not and him doing something about the SiL thing (if he does) is a good baby step.

A tiny Christmas gift for you, h&f?
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2017, 02:33:46 AM »
The humility is a pretty consistent feature of his crisis.  I knew it wasn't about me in 2013 and told him so.  He kinda agreed but thought it was about US.  This time, he knows its not even that.  He tries REAL hard to convince himself that the marriage is damaged beyond repair but he is not even convincingly putting all his eggs in her basket this time.

My reaching out and reminding him of our connection and my version of our truth acts like a truth dart and doesn't make it easy for him to get entrenched in his alternate reality.  There is no doubt that we are getting further away from each other at the moment.  It's probably necessary for both of us. 

I can vouch for the fact that if issues aren't properly faced in the MLCers crisis, the crisis will rear its head again.  This time around has seen a lighter dedication to the OW however it is still early in the piece so its impossible to know if it just hasn't gone there yet or if it never will.  This OW is definitely the complete opposite to the first one so there are clearly different issues being faced within H.  She will be a whole lot harder to get rid of though and H is glued to the path of least resistance.  While the OW thing has seemed less of a feature this time round, H and I have both gone to a new level of pain that we didn't get to before.  There is no hiding H's crazy this time so hopefully it will be dealt with properly this time.

Has anyone on this forum met anyone or know anyone who has said that 2017 was a great year and they will be sad to see it go?  I have not met one person who has not absolutely had it with this year.  Not sure if I posted this in an earlier post but I read on Facebook recently that "2017 has been like a scooter to the ankle".  Someone quickly added "followed by stepping on Lego".  I just love that analogy.  Nothing will take you down quicker than a scooter to the ankle ;D.  We, my friends have been dodging scooters and lego all darn year!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2017, 02:36:24 AM »
Agree about 2017 completely  :)
I'm aiming for a 2018 that is more like enjoying the ride on the scooter or building something amazingly fab with the Lego...
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2017, 02:46:10 AM »
OMG Treasur, you are just taking control of everything now woman!  You are the poster girl for making lemonade out of lemons.  I immediately picture myself flying, wind in my hair, off to new places on my scooter.  My lego creation, well, that is just gonna get bigger and bigger as the year goes on.  Thank you for that,  I am going to tuck those images away with me for use in times of stress.  Scooter and lego are going to be my new power words!!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2017, 02:49:07 AM »
Quote
I just love that analogy.  Nothing will take you down quicker than a scooter to the ankle ;D.

Unless it is stepping on a Lego in the dark!

Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2017, 03:51:00 AM »
UM  ;D ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2017, 06:03:00 AM »
UM  ;D ;D

I have a 10 year old boy who LOVES Lego.. I'm talking from experience!  ;D
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #91 on: December 22, 2017, 01:40:40 AM »
Had a bit of a weird week.  I would describe it as feeling like a shaken snow globe.  I keep changing my mind on whether or not I want to change my new nose piercing or not.  I want the gold one not the silver one but I shouldn't change it for 6 weeks and its only been 4.  The amount of times I have changed my mind about this indicates that I should not be in charge of any significant right now.

Throw in an interesting perception from my friend and I am a little confuzzled.  She thinks I am too controlling over this situation and that I might be cutting my nose off to spite my face with my rules.  She pointed out that the only person that is probably happy with the way things are is the OW.  It made me think.  Despite my promise to myself that I would stay cool and not try not to react to OW contact etc, I did exactly that.  I reacted big time and I made it all about her.  There was an element of punishment in there too.

The benefit of the time that I have had on my own is that I have been forced to focus on myself and I have grieved more than I ever have.  I have been angry and I have processed feelings - which I think is good.  I have also come to realise that its really not about me or her and that no matter what either of us do, this is going to resolve (or not) in its own time.  This is one of those things that is drummed into us and we get it intellectually, but it just takes a while to understand.

So where does that leave me now?  It leaves me understanding that there are cycles to this process and it might be time to allow the moving toward cycle to happen a little bit.  I am comfortable with the overall position that I have taken in regards to not allowing 'H&F only' time while he is still in contact with OW but I might relax my rules a little otherwise.  Today I had an opportunity to do that and I took it.

H text me last night to see if I am going to use his spare cricket ticket to take S14 to the cricket.  The cricket oval is pretty much the last place I feel like going given that there are still OW germs there  ::). H is not going because he has a concert to go to.  This is the concert he bought tickets for about a month ago and he invited D18.  D18 is sick so H said that he had 3 spare tickets and wanted them used (1 concert and 2 cricket).  He then text me again today to tell me that he needed to come and pick up the tickets from home.  I told him I would be home all day except for when I needed to pick D15 up from work.  He asked if he could pick her up and I said "yeah sure, that will be a nice surprise for her".  He was really happy with that.

When he arrived, I was bright and cheery and he stayed for 2 hours.  He asked about our plans for Xmas day and asked if he could do anything to help.  He is now in charge of buying lavish breakfast materials.  He told me that he is really looking forward to Christmas Day and I said I was too.  The way he said it sounded like it would be like a big drink in the middle of the desert.  Tomorrow he has plans to take S14 out with his friend to a trampoline park and will then take D15 out for dinner before having her for a sleep over. He left to go to the concert by himself and told me that he'll see me tomorrow.

This situation could be a whole lot worse, he could be in OW town or she could be here.  He continues to put the kids first on his weekends.  I am seriously not looking forward to the family driving off without me on Boxing Day but I will get through it and will be waiting on a call from my friend who is going to try and get us a super duper Boxing Day deal that sees us heading to Bali for 4 nights within the next couple of months.  This can be my Christmas present to myself because H probably won't get me anything.  He spends the equivalent amount on his yearly cricket membership and then spends a whole lot more on beer once he's there - not to mention the emotional trauma of that particular event  ::). So I think I would definitely deserve 4 days of poolside massages and general pampering.  I might have to make it an annual pilgrimage  ;D
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 01:43:37 AM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #92 on: December 22, 2017, 03:06:58 AM »
Fabulous update Hope, you sound great. Wishing you and the whole family a lovely weekend and a happy Xmas 🎄🎄🎄. Hope you get the Bali deal 😊
Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2017, 03:26:56 AM »
As usual you have talked yourself back ""to reality" and you are correct in your actions I feel!

Live in the moment!

Time is your friend!

Darn right you deserve 4 days poolside and all the pampering in the world my dear friend 😉
(Hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #94 on: December 23, 2017, 04:27:24 AM »
A few observations.  H spent another hour here today in between dropping off S14 and picking up D15.  Once again, he was super happy to be here and we had a lot of laughs in the short time frame.  It's weird that whatever mood I can be in seems to drop away when he is around. 

I was a little moody before he arrived because he'd text me to tell me that he'd hidden a Xmas present for the family outside earlier in the day because he didn't have his key.  He asked me to wrap it for him.  It is a ski tube for behind our boat and I got sad because I won't realistically be seeing them use it unless our circumstances change.  I can't take our ski boat out on my own because I need help launching it and doing the heavy stuff.  H would do that for me, but he would have to drive almost 2 hours each way to do it.  What am I gonna do, get him to come and launch the boat and then sit on the river bank while the kids and I play in the boat until he helps me take the boat out of the water.  There is no one else that I could ask to help me either so it looks like another casualty of this crisis  >:(

I may have an idea though.  The kids have asked H what his plans are for New Year.  The river is his favourite place to go.  Last New Year, SIL and my niece and her boyfriend joined us and it was really horrible for a number of reasons.  SIL has no need to hang off us this year because she got what she wanted and is now in a relationship with the tail she was chasing last year.  My niece is still going up but FIH's family (H's work friends) will not be going so it seems a bit limp this year.  I have stayed right away from the conversation about New Year because I assumed that H would go to OW's town or she might come here (she is not allowed in my boat or camper though >:().  H talked to D18 a bit more about it and it seems that they might be organising to go. 

If that ends up happening, I may go up for the day on Sat so that I can have a ski and see the kids use the tube.  I am not going on Sunday because leaving in the early evening on New Years Eve would just feel lame and lonely and would drive home the sadness of this situation.  Things might change though so I won't count those little chickens yet.

H also asked me if his Harley T-shirt had arrived yet?  Apparently he ordered a t-shirt on line almost 2 weeks ago and gave our house as the delivery address.  The mood I was in 2 weeks ago might have seen be burn that sucker if it had arrived then  ::) He also talked about his housemates new soundbox and said that it wouldn't be hard to install one near our T.V.  Still dreaming of a future at home H?  I notice that he's pretty quick to snatch up any opportunity I create for family time and we'd be back to full weekends together in no time if I let it happen.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #95 on: December 24, 2017, 03:24:04 AM »
Had Christmas with my folks today which was nice.  When I picked D15 up from H this morning he asked if he could stay on the couch tomorrow night.  I said yes, unconvincingly.  I am looking forward to him not leaving on Christmas night but it will make it a little hard to watch them all go off without me the next day.  H wants to leave pretty early so that was his excuse for asking to stay tomorrow night. 

Thankfully, I think he has to work on Wed so it will only be a 1 day trip with the kids.  I have got some cool things lined up to watch and read and I might try and get to the shops to change the size on the shirt I bought dad for Xmas.  As with most things, it is probably gonna be way better than anticipated.

It is not lost on me that I have gone from spending no time with H to letting him sleep on the couch within a couple of days.  I think I have more realistic expectations about the cyclical nature of this beast now and understand that there is probably some sort of toxic little thingy going with OW that this little sleepover may even feed into.  He's a long way off being relationship material to me and that's getting more and more ok with time.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #96 on: December 24, 2017, 03:29:30 AM »
Merry Christmas H&F!! 

Still burn the Harley T-shirt if it arrives, I will come over and help ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline Seekingpatience

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #97 on: December 24, 2017, 07:57:32 AM »
I will bring marshmallows.  :)


Good health, peace and hugs. Roll on 2018!  :)

Offline Mae

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #98 on: December 24, 2017, 08:38:35 AM »
Hope you have a lovely Xmas day with your family H&F and even enjoy your 'alone' time afterwards.
Me: 49
H: 40
S18, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Medicated & Zombie Like is NC

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #99 on: December 25, 2017, 04:10:17 PM »
Thank you for your Christmas wishes.  I spent a fair bit of the day thinking of my friends around the world and wondering how you were all going.

Our day was lovely.  H was here by 8am and we did presents and then he cooked us a lovely breakfast.  We planned lunch for about 3.30pm and spent the time in between sitting outside in the lovely weather and chatting.

FIL and MIL sent an early Merry Christmas message which I was grateful for and then my brother and his husband Facetimed us from the UK.  When they heard that H was here they wanted to say hello so the Face time ended up including all of us and lots of laughs.  My beautiful brother demonstrated the true spirit of love and forgiveness on Christmas Day and H was absolutely delighted.  Later on, we were reflecting on the year (delicately) and H thanked me and said that this day was his favourite day of the year.

It did take a turn for the worse when S14 went to his friends house to visit and ride his new bike and then decided to stay against our wishes.  He then started texting H about the fact that we don't have a real family anyway now so what's the point.  I then tried to call him and he wouldn't take my call.  We decided to drop it rather than go over there and make a scene in front of his friends extended family.  I will talk to S today.

H was gutted but I was cross.  IMO, S14 is entitled to what ever feelings he has but he is accountable for how he expresses them.  I strongly suspect that he pulled the 'fractured family' card because he was having a good time at his friends house and didn't want to come home.  S14 is still on a really long leash considering his behaviour lately and it seems that it may be a little too long.  S14 had no concerns going into yesterday and had even suggested a family movie for the evening (which we all ended up watching without him).  He can be as cross as he likes at his dad but he impacted my Christmas Day and acted like a selfish brat when he wouldn't take my calls.  I then saw snapchat messages of him riding down the middle of the road at about 11.30pm last night and he is NOT allowed to do that.  So yeah,  we are gonna have words today  >:(

H ended up being a bit stern with S14 over text last night because he could see I was being disrespected. I think he is planning to have it out with S14 sometime soon and by 'have it out', I mean let him lash out and be heard.  There is not much H can say to defend his position but he can demonstrate the need to 'man up' a bit and invite a conversation when someone clearly has a problem with you.

As planned, H stayed over (in S14's vacated bed).  A goodnight cuddle got a bit amorous again but we both stopped it going all the way.  H muttered something about not wanting alcohol to be a factor and I wholeheartedly agreed.  I could do without the complication.  I was surprisingly ok about it otherwise though.  He also said something last night about not being able to move away from his family and he wasn't talking geographically.  He told me that he had struggled all day not to touch my arm and put his hand on my knee etc.  I could tell he was struggling with that all day and I was too.

We chatted briefly this morning about what he was going to tell his family because S14 decided not to go to the FIL/MIL Boxing Day  gathering.  H said that he would just tell them the truth - it's all on him.  I said that 'we' had felt the sense that we needed to 'get over it and move on' from his family and he said, "well that's not coming from me".  I sort of felt the need to defend what might be said about S14 and his disrespectful behaviour.  I told H that I had not been looking forward to today but didn't harp on about it. 

H clearly wanted to talk last night but it is always me that talks so I changed that up and there was a lot of silence.  OW did not come up at all and he managed any contact with her yesterday very well.  We had his phone wired up to the bluetooth speaker so it was face up on the table all day.  He didn't duck off with his phone at any point in time either so that was good.  As hoped, she did not exist.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 04:14:53 PM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Online moc

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #100 on: December 25, 2017, 07:45:11 PM »
h&f: good to see that your H stood up for you regarding S14 behaviors.  Teenagers rebel, just like our MLCers.  But that was honorable of your H to step up.  I agree that the text from S14 was his true feelings and your H should have been gutted.  But sorry that you were disrespected in the process.  You did great today!
~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #101 on: December 26, 2017, 03:20:40 PM »
Why do bad behaviours get rewarded  >:( >:( >:( Grrrr.

Kids sent me a video of a massive white pointer shark that swam around their boat yesterday while they were out fishing.  Scared the crap out of everyone and you could hear the adrenaline in their voices.  The water was really calm so the footage is really quite good.  My oldest niece sent the footage to the news channels and they want to interview them and are willing to pay for it.

When I saw the footage yesterday, I could see my SIL and the tail she has been chasing for a while, my kids, H and my traitor nieces.  All having a beautiful, and now extremely memorable, time.

Meanwhile, S14 didn't go on the trip because of his behaviour the night before and he is very angry to have missed out.  He was a complete ar$e to me last night and left to go on a bike ride and didn't come back.  He eventually text me to say that he was staying at his friends house after he missed his curfew.  He is not allowed to stay at his friends house and he was not allowed to ride his bike without his helmet but he did both and I am somehow the enemy.

What did I do to deserve this? I think I should start behaving like an entitled creep because life seems to go better for those people  :(

It is taking everything I have to try and sound excited via text to my D15
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #102 on: December 26, 2017, 05:31:43 PM »
Just letting a little bit of evil out  ;D

I forgot to mention that I had a 2.5 phone conversation with SIL's ex husband last night.  It was nice to chat to him and he has a new girlfriend and is taking it very slowly with her.  SIL doesn't appear to be too happy about it and is still telling everyone that he abused her. 

Just in case any of you thought that the Karma bus had run out of gas, be reassured by these fun facts that it is just busy:
a) SIL doesn't know that BIL has access to her emails and can see all the emails going back and forward between her and her cousin (her lawyer).  SIL is now going for the jugular financially and BIL will suffer greatly but he does have a little ace up his sleeve (other than forewarning)
b) The lawyer is representing SIL for free but has offered to dummy up a very large legal bill for SIL - she put this in writing  ;D. BIL's lawyer said that he can't use the emails unless they go to court but if they do, look out!!
c) SIL claims to be poor but spends hundreds of dollars in fuel going to see the man that probably gave her genital warts as well as buying all their groceries and a case/carton of beer each trip - which is sometimes twice a week.  Might I add, he is a very wealthy land owner and also an electrician so he not only has a LOT of assets, he has cashflow.
d) SIL had an irregular smear result.  Turns out she has genital warts  :o :-X. I googled it.  Apparently they cause a discharge, burning, itching and bleeding.  Sorry for the graphic info folks. 

Ok, burn me in hell now  8)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #103 on: December 26, 2017, 05:49:52 PM »
Just letting a little bit of evil out  ;D

I forgot to mention that I had a 2.5 phone conversation with SIL's ex husband last night.  It was nice to chat to him and he has a new girlfriend and is taking it very slowly with her.  SIL doesn't appear to be too happy about it and is still telling everyone that he abused her. 

Just in case any of you thought that the Karma bus had run out of gas, be reassured by these fun facts that it is just busy:
a) SIL doesn't know that BIL has access to her emails and can see all the emails going back and forward between her and her cousin (her lawyer).  SIL is now going for the jugular financially and BIL will suffer greatly but he does have a little ace up his sleeve (other than forewarning)
b) The lawyer is representing SIL for free but has offered to dummy up a very large legal bill for SIL - she put this in writing  ;D. BIL's lawyer said that he can't use the emails unless they go to court but if they do, look out!!
c) SIL claims to be poor but spends hundreds of dollars in fuel going to see the man that probably gave her genital warts as well as buying all their groceries and a case/carton of beer each trip - which is sometimes twice a week.  Might I add, he is a very wealthy land owner and also an electrician so he not only has a LOT of assets, he has cashflow.
d) SIL had an irregular smear result.  Turns out she has genital warts  :o :-X. I googled it.  Apparently they cause a discharge, burning, itching and bleeding.  Sorry for the graphic info folks. 

Ok, burn me in hell now  8)

Well, thank you so much for updating us on what the Karma bus has been busy with, but I'd say it's the Karma train in her case!  BAHAHA........

Genital warts......seems there is some justice floating around. 

She doesn't know he has access to her emails.   :o    I hope he comes out smelling like the proverbial rose. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #104 on: December 26, 2017, 08:41:10 PM »
I’ve seen the footage, omg, terrifying! Your D18 is one very brave girl!!!

Sorry S giving you a hard time, teenage boys can be tricky, but normal I think! Wonder if he regrets it now, would he have liked to be part of the action?

SIL awful re her settlement, BIL lucky he can see what is going on, not many would have that opportunity.

Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #105 on: December 27, 2017, 04:00:49 AM »
That was my famous SIL being interviewed. My girls are being interviewed by Sunrise (morning news show) tomorrow morning. Quite the storm in a teacup.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Offline Reallytrying

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #106 on: December 27, 2017, 07:41:08 AM »
I couldn’t help laughing at the genitalia warts. I’m sorry S is acting the fool. Hopefully this is just a phase and it will be behind you soon. Now I’m curious to see this footage.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #107 on: December 27, 2017, 05:33:30 PM »
RT, If you google "shark stalks family boat" or anything similar, you will see a fair bit of footage about it.  I just googled it and there was one in Perth and New York but they aren't the right stories.  It might depend where you are googling from but when I did it, the whole first page was related to our story.

The girls did a fine job on T.V this morning.  We were up at 5am to meet the camera crew.  A good fun experience for them but not so much for S14 who "won't have a bar of it".  I haven't seen him since our fight on Boxing Day.  He has been adopted by his friends family it seems.  I spoke to him yesterday briefly to say that we need to talk today.  He has agreed but I don't think he realises that H will be part of that talk.

S14 text H on Xmas night saying that H was probably drunk and texting the 'marriage and family ruiner'.  He was super cross that he missed out on the shark adventure but I think that is mis-directed anger because S had the opportunity to go.  He was the one that went into communication lock down.  H showed me the text and asked me what he thinks S wants.  S actually says that H needs to 'fix this' in the last line of his text so I re-iterated that.  H then said that the kids will never accept OW so there is no future with her.  Interestingly, he didn't really appear sad or sorry for himself when he said that.

He then followed that up with an apology for being a firetruck-head and hurting everybody and said that I REALLY didn't deserve that. He told me that there was never anything wrong with 'us' and all he wants to do now is be with his family.  I told him that I could tell and that was part of what made it hard for us to accept his actions.  He so obviously loves being around his family.

He asked if S had an expectation that we would get back together as soon as OW is gone and I told him I certainly hadn't painted that picture.  I told H that while she is a point of focus and certainly not making things better, we have bigger issues.  I basically said that I would not enter into a relationship with him while he was so self destructive.  I also told him that their contact pours weedkiller over the whole family.

H is definitely in strong 'touch' mode and I wondered if he had some sort of break up with OW - possibly even instigated by her but D15 saw a text from her yesterday which was informing him of her movements and it had 2 x's.  She also saw him texting another woman that he has been known to drunk text and she got some x's too. 

He bought D15 home from the Boxing Day family gathering and she was in a pretty bad mood.  She was running late for work and the dog was jumping all over her trying to say hello so she kicked him.  If you knew my D, you would know that this is the last thing she would do.  That just hit me in a sore spot (cos I feel like a kicked dog lately) and I asked H what was wrong with her when he came inside.  He was unaware of anything other than her concern about being late for work.

My sore spot resulted in a sob fest (which never happens) and H got both barrels from me about S's most recent behaviour and the fact that the shark experience had driven home the fact that I was abandoned because it was the first really cool memory that I was not a part of.  I ranted about wanting run away and definitely not wanting to be a good person anymore.  I was SOOO angry and he just came and grabbed me and held me. 

I then had to take D to work and he offered to do that but I said I wanted to get out of the house.  He was supposed to be at work but offered to come with me.  I also had to go into the shops so we ended up going out for lunch as well.  We then came home for a coffee and thats when the conversation above happened.  He said he had been wanting to talk to me and that he wanted to continue talking to me even if it would be difficult.  I told him that I have never been afraid of a difficult conversations.  He ended up staying for dinner and leaving at 10ish.

He is going up to the river for New Year and really wants me to come.  I told him I would probably come for a day but he wants to set our camper up for me and told me that he doesn't care what anyone else thinks (his family will be there).  I told him I would play it by ear but I am not planning to be there for New Year.  I know life is short but I also feel there would be plenty of time for that if we don't rush things now.  I also know that I will probably still be talking about OW and her contact in 6 months so I am preparing for the long game again.

Talk about a rollercoaster ride!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #108 on: December 28, 2017, 04:50:54 AM »
Oh h&f he is right there!  He is so ready to pull the trigger and go for it....YOU are handling him and his ending very well.  You know exactly what it will take before you are all in and what he needs to do.  He loves his family, he loves you!  He needs to courage to do it.  He is not unsure of what he wants he is unsure of himself.
He knows all of this is because of him, that is scary but he acknowledges and I feel understands.
Your kids have had enough and they are not afraid to show it!!!  Upsetting for you but I truly feel this is a good thing and they deserve to let their feelings out. 

You amaze me!!
Sending extra strength!
(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline Notinlimbo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #109 on: December 28, 2017, 02:25:59 PM »
Hi H & F
Things seem to be going well I agree 31.
It worries me though that H & F hubby is not quite like a lot of the other h here.
Both in the length of the affairs(relatively short), lack of monstering...

Sorry  H& F but have you looked at love addiction? It could be useful.  For when you two get back together :).
Note i said when not if (lol).I know there are psychologists who specialise in this. There was one at where my H used to go for his IC. And that's in your city.
Xxx not. ( just putting my 2 cents in for once)

My only other comment is that if he won't go  to a counsellor at least you might have more idea what your dealing with
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 02:32:11 PM by Notinlimbo »
Me 59
H 57
D 25
BD March 15
OW ex from 33 years ago PA

Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #110 on: December 28, 2017, 03:20:41 PM »
I'm on the same rollercoaster ride, H&F. Here's to hoping that this will be your last time around.

H sounds like he is trying to do his best and you are handling it with grace and compassion all while honoring your own feelings. Keeping my fingers crossed that he continues to move towards you and the kids.
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #111 on: December 28, 2017, 03:46:23 PM »
He is not unsure of what he wants he is unsure of himself.

Nailed it 31!  But then again, you know my H pretty well by now.

He is trying to clean up a little over the last couple of days.  He's had a run each day and hasn't been drinking.  He got drunk everyday during our recent dim contact.  He probably has grand plans to start the New Year off fresh and I almost feel sorry for him because I know that will be a whole lot harder than he thinks.  I would not be surprised to see another drop after that, especially if he does decide to end it with OW in the next few days because there would be all sorts of withdrawal going on.

Last night was pretty brutal.  S14 came home but not before trying to run away.  He literally got out of his friends car and ran up the street.  Their D16 (who is a sprinter) had to catch him.  This was because he saw H's car when he came up the street.  S came inside and went straight to his room but we followed him.  He lost it and called H a wan&er (might be an Aussie word) and said "look what you've done" while pointing at me.  Tears are streaming down my face by this point because his pain was palpable and his voice was half man/half child.  The power behind it was quite shocking though. 

Pure hatred came out of S14's mouth so H asked him if that's it, does S14 want to never speak to H again?  S14 went silent.  Broke my heart.  H asked again.  S14 said "it's up to you".  We left him alone and came into the kitchen to talk.  It had become very obvious that he was trying to back H into a corner by issuing that ultimatum.  I told H that he is trying to fight for his family in the only way he knows how and that S definitely does want a relationship with his father.

H spoke of OW again and said that he has tried to shield the kids from her as much as possible and that this had given her the $hits because she has no access to H when he is with us.  I told H that I had NO sympathy for her because she walked herself right into this mess.  I let rip on her a bit which is odd for me.  I also said that if she ever saw us together, even silent footage, she would understand that she has much bigger problems than the kids.  He asked again if I think that OW is his biggest barrier with S14 and I said "100%".  He knows that 'family time' is available to him unhindered if OW is gone but I also pointed out that it would only be available to him if both of us are single, or back together.  Obviously no other partner would tolerate the time we spend together.  Just felt like throwing that in there in case he is looking for another OW.

H decided to leave because it was clear that S wasn't going to come out of his room until he did.  He has since told me that he went home and had a long talk with his housemate and partner about the situation.  I am glad he had an outlet.  I managed to speak to S again and I told him that I could see him fighting hard for his family.  I told him that he has had a strong influence on H and that H and OW are very much on the rocks.  I also pointed out that it is not as simple as that and OW will still be around for a while.  I talked a little bit about the 'long game' because S firmly said to H "you are either in or out, no in-between".  He can't just come 'in' either because I have a say in that.  I also pointed out to S that while it looks like H has chosen her, she feels that he has chosen us.  We all know that she has been wanting to move here since May but has so far only managed 1 visit.  He has not spent any weekends with her in her town either.  H's family has always been the greater pull.

Both in the length of the affairs(relatively short), lack of monstering...

Sorry  H& F but have you looked at love addiction? It could be useful. 

This has come up and I did look it up for the very reasons you mention.  It didn't quite fit the bill but then MLC doesn't either. There are definitely more ticks in the MLC box than the Love addiction box.  The fact that the Love addiction appears to be a 'thing' now seems to fit with the MLC profile of personality disorders that appear that weren't there before.

I am going to check it out again though and I would be very interested in the name of that IC you mentioned.  For H or for me.  If he does go to IC, I agree that it needs to be someone with addiction as their specialty because H is dealing with a few of them, with a side of depression.

Thanks for your support HP.  Hope your rollercoaster ride doesn't make your hurl  :)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 03:51:40 PM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Notinlimbo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #112 on: December 28, 2017, 08:14:04 PM »
I'm so sorry about what happened with S. It must be heartbreaking for you and for S.
Xx. Not
Me 59
H 57
D 25
BD March 15
OW ex from 33 years ago PA

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #113 on: December 28, 2017, 09:37:14 PM »
S is so much better today and was even gracious and interested with his sisters about the shark thing.

He didn't speak to H when H came by today to pick up D15 to go the river.  I have convinced him to come up with me tomorrow though so hopefully tensions ease.  S has agreed to stay up there for the duration of H's stay which means that he will be staying with H.  There is potential for things to flare because SIL and her family will be there and we are staying at her boyfriends block - which we have been going to LONG before he became her boyfriend.  S is a little territorial.

H is starting to get under my defences with his charm.  We were chatting when he came over to pick up D15.  I am being very vague about my plans for this weekend and have not committed to anything more than a day trip.  H asked me to pack a bag, just in case.  He also asked me what time I am coming up in the morning and I said I didn't know, he asked me not to dawdle.  He definitely knows how to make me feel wanted. ARRGGHHH
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline serenity

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #114 on: December 29, 2017, 12:06:52 AM »
Hi h and f,

I think you’re handling this all brilliantly. You’ve obviously sparked your h’s interest and got him wondering!


Keep up the good work. I do think you’ll prevail in the end. These ghastly other women just hang on to any shred of hope by their fingernails!

Hugs

X

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #115 on: December 29, 2017, 06:12:42 AM »
Man h&f sweet son is a good kid!  He is trying so hard to figure out how to deal with the mess his dad has made!  A growing son looks up to his father and your H has destroyed that!  sigh!

Keep your information vague and to yourself!Get to the water when you want to get there!

Happy health in 2018!
(hugs)
31

Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2017, 11:03:01 AM »
I am glad you let it rip on the OW. They need to hear it bc they truly don’t get it. Which is amazing to me!! The level of cluelessness is astounding sometimes. And then as you pointed out, that any OP seems satisfied with being held (and treated) in such low esteem speaks volumes on their emotional condition.

But still I know it’s all very hard to deal with. We still feel so discarded—it’s so difficult not to take it personally. So do hard. And to somehow muster love and compassion when they do the DUMBEST and most self centered things really requires the patience of a saint.

My heart aches for your boy. He is reacting as any boy would. He misses his family. You handled it perfectly and  are doing great. But yes, my heart aches for you too...and all lbs especially. Hugs
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #117 on: January 01, 2018, 02:48:23 AM »
Well I wasn't expecting that!

I ended up spending New Years with H and the kids as well as SIL and nieces and boyfriends etc.  It was the same gang as last New Year with the addition of a new female - more on that later.  I vowed I would not do a repeat of last year (at the river with the same people).  It was the only thing I did know.  Besides that, I had no plans because I was waiting to see what the kids were doing.  D15's friend bailed on her at the last minute so all of the kids wanted to be at the river.  The idea of that made me very nervous so I just played it day by day. 

I have previously held a boundary (not verbalised) that I would not spend a night at the river while H was with OW.  I had even thought that I wouldn't go up for the day during one of his longer trips because I wouldn't want to drive away from our camper and usual holiday set up because I would feel like I was missing out and therefore feel punished.  The sleeping arrangements are the next factor.  I thought it would upset me too much to be there and not sleep next to H.  I'll admit that the first night, I struggled.  H slept in his swag and I slept with S14 and the girls shared the other bed.  There was room for him in the camper the next night but given the alcohol consumption, D15 encouraged me to not bring it up.  Good point I thought.

I focused on being grateful for the bigger picture and the things that were right (within the wrong) in this situation and not what I still lacked.  I was grateful that I was spending it with my family, that H wanted me there and wasn't with OW and that overall, he's getting closer.

The last NY we spent together while separated was a disaster because I kept catching him texting OW.  They were on breakup number 433 by then but the pull was still strong and he was still acting like a guilty sneaky teenager  ::)

Lord knows what is going on there but I felt no such weird energy from him and zero weird phone behaviour.  D15 said she used his phone quite a bit and never saw a message from her either.  He didn't seem like he was pining or anything and really enjoyed his time with me.  It was so weird that there were 2 other couples there but, besides the sleeping arrangements, we were more connected.  Because our finances are still joined, he just takes his wallet whenever we go anywhere.  He bought all our food (including chocolate for me  :-*) and we made morning coffees for each other like normal.  We hung out and went for walks or drives together.

Our dog got into a fight on day one and was bruised and battered last night so I had him on my lap.  When dinner was ready, H got me a plate of food so that I didn't have to get up.  He was happy to do that sort of thing in front of the others and he was also happy to give me a couple of New Years hugs when he went to bed.  He went to bed at 11.30pm so my party animal of a H didn't even see the New Year in.  He had been steadily drinking since just before lunch so it didn't really surprise me.

I must admit that I freaked out on Day 1 though.  My niece and her boyfriend arrived with another girl who is drop dead gorgeous.  My heart sank.  Beautiful body, beautiful hair, beautiful smile and single.  I then find out that she's 32 - H's favourite age.  I just didn't need that sort of temptation put in front of him because he has even said that he has flirted with people when he know's he shouldn't.  She could have been a really fat chick for all the attention H paid to her though, which surprised me.  I have left them all up there tonight which I am monkey braining about a bit.  S14 and D18 are also there too and they are my security guards.  H would probably be safer flirting with her in front of me than them!

I had a surreal moment and deep gratitude yesterday when H and I had been swimming with the rest of the group but they all left.  I commandeered a massive pink flamingo which was tied to our ski boat and H piloted our ski tube.  We floated off the back of our boat for over an hour, listening to music and having a drink.  The weather was gorgeous, the sky blue and the water lapping and bobbing us up and down gently.  We both fell asleep but not before the stereo played "Remedy" by Adele.  That is the song that H dedicated to me last Dec before we split.  It is our song and we got to listen to it together in this blissful state.  Sooo grateful for that moment.

This stuff is what makes it super hard to cope with the downward cycle that is likely to follow.  I work hard to make it all about me and he gets under my guard within minutes it seems.  My New Years resolution is to be kind to myself for being on the rollercoaster and to keep reminding myself that H is 'part' of my life and NOT my whole life.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #118 on: January 01, 2018, 03:40:58 AM »
Happy New Year Hope and Faith.

What a smile to see you write...a part if my life not my whole life

Seems to me your New Year is off to a great start!

Hugs to you

I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #119 on: January 01, 2018, 05:15:45 PM »
Thanks 1P - Happy New Year to you and every other beautiful person on this forum.

I was just reflecting as I was driving home from my mum's house last night that I haven't been hurt by anyone yet this year  ;D.  It was only 7.30pm so not even 24 hours into the New Year, but I'll take it!

I didn't really mention anything about SIL during my last update because there wasn't really anything to mention.  She was kind of normal although she did make sure to tell me how much of a super mother she is.  She also told me about her irregular smear result  :o - twice.  I resisted telling her that I hoped her warts weren't causing her too much trouble.  She is still entirely selfish but sells herself as the opposite.  H is taking a week of annual leave from this weekend and is planning on going to the river off and on during that period.  She is basing herself there over that period and commuting an hour to work for 3 days.  As soon as she heard that H is taking the week off (which includes D15's birthday on one of her work days), she said "oh, I haven't booked D9 into school care yet so maybe you could have her".  Her boyfriend is a farmer and has a lot of help and flexibility at his property but she would rather ask her brother who is the chief pilot of a national airline to use his week off to look after her daughter.  Niece 9 is throwing monster tantrums when she doesn't get her way and literally needed 3 adults to hold her down last week.  She also already has babysitting lined up with MIL and FIL but they are 3 hours away so she wouldn't see her beloved D9.  Meanwhile Niece 18 is having a birthday this weekend and SIL is complaining that niece hasn't made time for her.  You reap what you sow SIL.  They are voting with their feet.

On a side note, I forgot to mention that H rang me last week during our blow up with S14 to tell me that he'd spoken to his mother and explained a little more about why S14 hadn't visited them on Boxing Day.  He said "I made it very clear that S14's behavior has got nothing to do with you filling his head with anything and that you are being very supportive to me, as I am to you".  I hadn't really thought about that but I was glad that he said that and stuck up for me.  I ended up ringing MIL later that day to thank her for my Christmas present and I also filled her in a bit so she knows that I also had a fight with S14 so it wasn't a case of me and S14 happily bit@hing about the rest of the family.  S14 is very much back to funny self and has a really good time at the river.  He is still there with H but is coming home today.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline handpuppets

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #120 on: January 01, 2018, 06:12:42 PM »
I focused on being grateful for the bigger picture and the things that were right (within the wrong) in this situation and not what I still lacked.  I was grateful that I was spending it with my family, that H wanted me there and wasn't with OW and that overall, he's getting closer.

Right there with you H&F. I think this is where I get stuck too. And it was starting to become a theme (thank you, Universe!). So I am going to try to focus on what vs. what I lack in my relationship and see if that helps me move forward in my own work.

It sounds like it was a nice New Year's, that you were in the moment and that H is moving closer and closer towards you and the family.

(Your SIL sounds like a real piece of work. Yikes.)
“Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” -Anne Lamott

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2018, 05:25:54 PM »
Meanwhile Niece 18 is having a birthday this weekend and SIL is complaining that niece hasn't made time for her.  You reap what you sow SIL.  They are voting with their feet.


Niece text me on Tues and asked if I was free to catch up for lunch on her birthday  ;D. She told me that she misses me.  That felt good.  SIL will be there and so will my other niece and D18 so she obviously changed her plans to include her mother (and me).  Wonder if SIL is getting sick of me yet?

H is now on holidays and has gone back up to the river.  He only ended up working 2 days this week and spending 2 extra days at the river with S14.  I am so pleased that they are getting along much better now.  It is interesting to note that while H is at the river, he has $hit phone reception and even if he didn't, it would be STUPID to be caught communicating with ow.  I am not sure if ow is on annual leave too but if she isn't, she can't find weak work related reasons to contact H.

Meanwhile H has been asking me all week if I will come to the river again this weekend.  His housemate and girlfriend are going up and I initially felt embarrassed by the idea of being 'one' of H's stupid pathetic women.  I don't feel quite the same way about it now and almost feel like marking my territory ;D.  I have been vague again because I was half expecting to see a cycle back to ow during the week but that hasn't really happened.  So I am going to go up tomorrow morning with D15 and D18 will join us after work.  All 5 of us will be there again so its an opportunity too good to pass up.  It does feel a bit high risk/high reward at the moment but I am going with it.

On a side note, D18 is now 'talking to' a guy who lives at the river.  He is the brother of SIL's boyfriend so it's all a bit incestuous but they were circling each other last year until D18 decided she needed to concentrate on her studies.  She then ended up going out with a school friend but broke up with him before Christmas because he was super jealous and needy.  Our river trips have revived her friendship with the river guy and he is a much better match for her.  SOOOOO much happier too which is awesome because she was really quite depressed at the end of last year.  This guy is 4 years older so he is more a mental match and he's so much more compatible.  He just won the Young Citizen of the Year Award for his volunteer work with special needs kids.  He's only 22 but he does so much volunteering outside of his day job, which is as an outdoor education teacher.  I am just so happy for her.

Wish me luck.  I really want to come home from this river trip as peaceful as I did after the last one.  I am now on Day 6 of the New Year and haven't been hurt or disappointed yet - woohoo!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2018, 01:13:44 AM »
Journalling:

It’s been a pretty H filled week which has been really nice.  The river trip went really well and then it was D15’s birthday on Wed so there was a birthday dinner with Mil, Fil, Sil and nieces on Tues and then the 5 of us spent the day together on her birthday.  H has been on holidays this week so he hung out at the house on Thurs too and then stopped by today to pick up D16 and S14 to take them to Mil and Fil’s for the weekend.

The more I see him, the harder it is not to want more.  He is great company and super attentive and kind.  He has been doing all the shopping for our river trips lately and because I have left earlier for work each time, he has had to pack up on his own – without complaint.  When I got home from work last night, he had been busy doing the lawns and cleaning up the yard because he knew my parents were coming over today and then he cleaned my car. The kitchen was spotless too.  He seemed really happy to be productive and is trying not to drink.  I think he has only really managed 2 days so far because we have been at the river.

I would not even know that OW existed at all if I hadn’t seen a text from her while we were up at the river.  He had his phone charging on the couch where I was sitting and I saw a message come in that said “how’s your night, silly question, what are you up to?”  I would have loved to have replied, “smoking shisha and playing board games with my housemates and my wife…you?”  but alas!  About 30 mins later, she text again and said “Think I might just go to sleep then, night x”.  D16 took his phone as a torch to go to the toilet later and had a bit of a snoop.  He would know that somebody saw the messages because she accidentally clicked on them so they became ‘read’.  She looked further back to see that he had text her earlier on to let her know he was thinking about her.  GRRRR.  Bites hard to see that.  D16 said that she got the distinct impression from other texts that OW is getting cranky.  I thought her texts sounded a bit flat and pouty maybe.  She also seems pretty desperate because D16 saw a text from her that said “I just love you too much” and a few other needy sounding “you’re so sexy” type texts.  She seems to be a drinker too.

So, it was a useful reminder that he is very much still in contact with her and also providing her crumbs (at least). It’s almost like he is not even having an affair because he is always with us and his phone is not hidden.  There is no weird phone behaviour either so he is getting REALLY good at this now.  He has not asked to sleep over again and he has not told me he has ended it or had any other R talks either.  I think he will tell me when he does end it.  He hasn’t seen her since the Wed before Christmas at the earliest so I think that’s about 3 weeks or so.   He’s spent most of that time with us or at least one of the kids so they really haven’t had any quality time to even really talk.

He has been talking to S14 about getting our financial situation in order and has been looking at river shacks for sale on line.  I remember this from last time and it was about the 9 month mark too.  Quite weird how it seems to have a time line of its own. 

I told him that I am catching up with one of his colleagues (the work wife who was there at BD) on Monday and he sounded pleased and told me that he had invited her and her hubby to the river for our last trip.  He’d told her that I was coming up (a selling point) but they were busy and the weather was super hot too.  How weird, he definitely wants work colleagues to know that we are hanging out and obviously doesn’t mind it getting back to OW.  I get the feeling that OW didn’t know I was at the river this last weekend because he’d focused on talking about the housemates (who invited me to their birthday) and she just didn’t seem that triggered in her texts. 

Lord knows what he is up to and how long this will take to drop off.  He is back at work next week but then has more holidays in Feb.  The next couple of months will be telling because I am not sure what he is planning during his holidays.  I think he has 3 weeks.  I have no doubt that he will be seeing her before then because he can’t avoid Head office.

This ‘so close, but yet so far’ thing is really distracting and makes me pine.  He sure knows how to make himself useful in my life.  He is an acts of service guy and they are coming in thick and fast. I make sure that I notice all of them. He always does the cooking at the river and I always thank him for every meal. He is scoring lots of runs on the board at the moment which, I think, is the best he can do.

I just had the urge to text him something irrelevant because he did the same to me this morning. I never text him for no reason and then just after I sent it, I thought that I wouldn’t get a reply because he is with the kids and he would be keeping his phone out of sight until he can check it privately. To my surprise, he responded straight away.  I wonder if he has some sort of way of only turning her messages on silent.

On an unrelated matter, I am organising a health Expo at work in a couple of weeks and have arranged a speaker from Beyond Blue which is an organisation specialising in helping people with depression.  The speaker rang me today and I had the best chat with him about depression and his own story.  He was basically a cop for years and then went to senior executive positions until he drank himself stupid and literally fell out of a tree and broke his back. He had 3 brain bleeds at the time which affected his frontal lobe and caused him to verbally attack his wife. She left him and he woke up.  He was 43.  I told him about H and we chatted for a while before he said I can call him anytime for more info or help.  I googled him afterwards and was very impressed with his resume and achievements.  Such an Angel to offer help to me and I have no doubt that he would LOVE to help H should he ever express an interest.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
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Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2018, 01:39:47 AM »
Sounding good H&F, at least he is being kind.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2018, 04:58:36 AM »
You do sound good h&f!

I just want to say one thing.....  it makes be very sad that you and the kids are seeing the text messages!  I understand completely, I did the same thing!  I would read his long emails on his Ipad ( at that time he was unaware that his phone and Ipad were synced)  It is a way to "monitor" I guess and you are strong I know.  I was strong too and felt I could handle it and I could and I did!! BUT now that we are reconciled some of what I read won't leave my head!

I understand your thought process truly I do but I just want you to be aware of what I continue to go through.  it is better for sure but I know this will take me a long time to get out of my head. 

Maybe consider "not looking" ?   Just worried I guess :(

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline 1phoenix

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2018, 02:06:43 PM »
Right with 31 on this.

One can never unsee something they have looked at. 

Hugs
I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear — Nelson Mandela

I never lose.  I either win or learn! - Nelson Mandela

For we have fallen from our shelves, To face the truth about ourselves.  "The Gift", Annie Lennox

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Grace makes beauty out of ugly things.  U2 "Grace"

We have all been dealt a hand of cards in this game of life.   Are you going to play or fold?

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." Yoda

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2018, 02:51:47 PM »
I make quite an effort not to look.  If I need a phone for something, I will look far and wide before I pick up his in case there is a message waiting to be seen from her.  On this occasion, it was sitting next to me on the couch when it lit up.  Maybe it was the lack of distinguishable x's or other loving emoji's that prompted me to actually read it.

I knew the kids had then used his phone after me so they would have seen it too which is what prompted a discussion.  I didn't know that D16 had read more messages afterwards until she told me about them.

I totally agree though 31.  I don't want to see stuff because I figure I will know/be told if anything changes markedly.  I imagine that there is going to be plenty of painful waffling between now and then.  I probably will be more inclined to check phone records (only usage) if we get to a point where he is promising stuff but my spidey senses are up.  I haven't checked the phone records in months now - even when I got a "hello H&F  ;D" text last week from someone I didn't know.  I text them back to say I didn't have their number in my phone and asked who it was. I got back "sorry".  I checked to see if it was any of the kids friends - nope.  Could have cross referenced it with the phone bill but didn't really see the value in that, especially because it would have been enabled me to see how much H is in ringing and texting with OW.

I have recently re-read Wondering's thread and it has been helpful to read that her H had quite a bit of schmoopie contact with his OW until the last dying breath of their liaison.  Way past when he was indicating a return home.  Did you find that too 31?  Did you ever read stuff that was in conflict with what he was telling you or at least indicating that there were still 2 brains operating?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:55:50 PM by hopeandfaith »
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2018, 12:54:14 AM »
Had a great couple of days  ;D

I have been wondering what H has planned for his upcoming holidays and it came up in conversation last night so I asked him.  He said 'nothing' so D16 told him that she was "keen as a bean" to spend lots of time with him. I would be very surprised if there are any plans to have ow come over (especially since it went down so well last time  ::)).

Today I caught up with H's work wife who I haven't seen for about 6 months.  I filled her in on what's been going on and she told me that H had been quite withdrawn and even a little bit mean for quite a while but has begun engaging with her again.  She also told me that....wait for it.....H broke up with ow last week.  There is even more good news  ;D ;D. She has apparently applied for a job outside of his company and has been for an interview.  I therefore ask all my LBS friends to PRAY SHE GETS THE JOB.

Apparently she has been applying for jobs in our town but H has blocked it in some way.  Work wife thought that ow's trip to our town in Dec was a compromise aimed at keeping her off his case.  Apparently the previous cancelled trip cost her quite a bit because it was cancelled on the day she was supposed to fly here.  H had apparently offered to reimburse her but she told him not to worry about it.

I also heard another little story about him leaving her in the lurch one night when he was at a farewell party with other work mates and was supposed to meet her at his room when she finished her late shift.  Instead, he went into town with the work mates, which include the chick he drunk texts, who works for ow.  Awkward at work much???  It sounds like he has been quite the ba$tard to her.

H is due to spend 4 days in the office with her in the next few weeks so a backslide is expected.  Even if she does leave, she would probably still be there then and these things have an annoying habit of dragging out for months.  H is now on Day 6 of no drinking which is the longest he has managed for ages.  He is back at work though so I expect that won't last.  Work wife says that he has ALOT on his plate because he dropped the ball before Christmas. 

He seemed very cranky about going back to work and I think its because he is vulnerable to ow and does not trust himself.  I think this might be why I haven't heard anything about it from him.  I am quite glad that he hasn't invited me onto this rollercoaster.  He might have told me if I was still blocking his access to the family home because that would be the thing that allows him access.  I think I prefer it this way.  I will obviously pretend I don't know anything so it's not a 'thing' when they hook up again.

Work wife has high hopes for him this year and thinks it will be the year that he sorts out his $hit.

I am just grateful for a little relief.  It's always nice to hear that things are as bad as you hope they are and that they are at the breaking up stage.  I didn't get the impression that this is the first time but I am not sure.

Off to pray that ow gets the job she applied for - that is, if that's what's best for all involved.  Don't want to mess with the universe ya know  ;)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2018, 01:04:29 AM »

Off to pray that ow gets the job she applied for - that is, if that's what's best for all involved.  Don't want to mess with the universe ya know  ;)

Happy to share my little NYE yellow karma bus  ;D
I hope she gets the job...and then in a few months realises she hates it or gets fired...but too late for your H to want her s$it back because he is chugging along well as work wife suggests she hopes will happen!
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2018, 01:06:51 AM »

Happy to share my little NYE yellow karma bus  ;D


Why thank you Treasur, that is very gracious of you  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2018, 01:19:39 AM »
You're welcome...and if Morte is driving, it moves at speed I'll tell ya  ;D
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2018, 01:40:25 AM »
I'd love Morte to drive - can't help it if she accidentally runs a few extra ow over in the process ...she's a new driver  ;)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

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Online Mortesbride

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2018, 04:19:37 AM »
What are you guys trying to say exactly?!  :o 8)

Offline Treasur

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2018, 04:28:55 AM »
That we expect you to drive with sass and a good aim!
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2018, 04:31:01 AM »
What are you guys trying to say exactly?!  :o 8)

Uhhmmmmmm ... Maybe ...

Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline No expectations

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2018, 04:46:03 AM »
Hahaha!  I want to ride along on the karma bus!  Hoping it will be v-e-r-y entertaining!  ;D ;D ;D
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline Never say never

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2018, 05:22:41 AM »
Hope, I just read the last several posts of yours and you do sound so good.  Now I think I screwed up my situation because my husband, like yours, was just texting OW and has stopped seeing her :'( :'(

So when my husband comes back home, do I just ignore his texts?  Let him do it?  I guess after five-plus years, I'm still not sure how to play this stupid game. 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you sound amazing and wishing you all the best.

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2018, 10:55:23 AM »
Hahahahaha! WOW that would be great to witness wouldn't it??
Sigh we can dream can't we!

h&f wondering's thread is the right one to read!! It saved me I swear!
Yes I found my h was saying and acting towards me yet I read the complete opposite on his emails to OW2!!
I swear if OW2 hadn't ended it and our adult d hadn't viewed a recent email ( our granddaughter opened it instead of her game on his iPad) my H would of carried on like that for a little not time!!

I'm happy to hear your h has ended it ..... He will be in OW withdrawal again but hopefully not as long this time!
You are doing amazing music friend!
(Hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2018, 07:36:34 PM »
UM, you have made my week, possibly month with that GIF.  I wonder how much coffee and tea has been spat out around the world thanks to you.  If you don't mind, please prefix all of your posts with a warning about not taking a sip of anything prior to reading!

Morte, I am sure I speak for others when I say that I would absolutely hop on that Karma bus right along with you.  We have complete confidence in your driving ability  ;)  Just quietly, I like how the yellow karma bus has gone a bit stealth and is now a black range rover - Nice!!  8)

Never I don't think you screwed up.  I thought your husband was home (I must check your posts) but if he's not, I have no doubt that he will be again.  You can then decide how you want to handle the text thing.  I am taking a couple of things into consideration at the moment to help me decide how I might handle things going forward.  One is Wondering's earlier threads which showed how frustratingly long it can take for them to break contact even though they say they want to be at home.  31 confirmed this in her experience as well.

Also, I was listening to Marriage Radio with Joe Beam on the weekend and in particular, a podcast on the Definitive Guide to Boundaries.  He suggested something that I consider a bit left field.  He had one couple who reunited and the husband made a boundary that about any contact from the OM.  Because of the addictive nature of this, the wife broke the boundary (lightly) and he had to kick her out, which he regretted.  He was then advised to consider a tiered response.  For example, first evidence of contact, you are out for 2 weeks or a month.  Next time, 6 months or whatever you want to set.  I first thought that sounded a bit weak but then I think it might be a bit of genius.  We KNOW about the addictive nature of this so we are setting ourselves up to fail with these MLCers that are coming back broken.  I suspect that my H knows that I wouldn't be 'done' because I haven't been so far.  He does know that I can do a month though.  And, he doesn't know what I will do with my month and I think that would worry hm.  I see it as a mid point between being a dormat and cutting them off.  Worth thinking about I reckon.

31 I would be flabbergasted if this is the last break up with her so I am definitely not holding my breath there.  Its heading in the right direction though.  Wonder if it's gonna start messing with my head if he doesn't tell me in the near future.  That flippin monkey is never very far away is it?
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

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Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #139 on: January 16, 2018, 06:18:58 AM »
WARNING: DO NOT SIP LIQUIDS!

  Wonder if it's gonna start messing with my head if he doesn't tell me in the near future.  That flippin monkey is never very far away is it?

Nope, they aren't.....

Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2018, 01:54:56 PM »
Thanks for the warning UM.  I am literally sitting here with my coffee and toast.  I am grateful that today's fragrance will not be Eau de Coffee  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #141 on: January 18, 2018, 11:39:45 PM »
H text me on Monday morning to let me know the one of his female work mates had finally lost her battle with brain cancer  :'(. I hadn't had a lot to do with her but she'd made a big impact.  The type of lady that you immediately trust and tell your life story to.  She was the flight attendant manager and her husband is a pilot with the company too so they literally know everyone.  Both have always been supportive of H despite his antics and very supportive of me.  It was nice to have people on the inside that knew the real story.

The funeral was today and I decided to go. H couldn't because he is interstate.  Once again, I am sure that everyone knows the juicy stories that H is the subject of and many may have been surprised to see me there but I held my head high and got on with the job of paying my respects.  You could almost say that there there are 2 levels of staff in this airline; the classy pilots and flight attendants and the ones that give the industry a bad name.  The classy ones always intimidate the other ones a fair bit and I have always been claimed by that group, as I was today.  This was nice because...guess who I saw there??  The 'almost ow' who drunk texts with H.  She's the one that also works with ow interstate.  I met her at the end of 2014 when H and I were reconciling and he took me on a trip with him that she was also on.  He told me that she was really supportive of us getting back together but it took me 5 seconds in her orbit to work out that she definitely was not happy I was there.  4 years later and she is still the standby girl.  Gotta admit that it gave me a bit of a jolt to see her there.  Probably gave her just as much of a jolt.  Hopefully she is thinking, "why won't this wifey ever go away"  ;D.

I signed the condolence book from H and I and told him about that when I got home.  He thanked me for doing that.  I find it curious and very nice that H is so willing to be associated with me. He is still speaking to his work wife about coming to the river.  Our next river trip is also planned with the base manager in our state.  News travels very fast in that company so H knows he is making a statement.

After a few days of no contact, H initiated a text chat yesterday which was really long and funny and then another one today that went on for quite a while.  This is one of the things, along with his regular phone calls, that I really missed.  He seems to have had a good week with his fitness and non drinking so it sounds like he is hanging onto this upswing fairly well.  We have tickets to see our favourite comedian tomorrow night so that will likely be another great family night.

It's 43 degrees here today (109 in farenheight) so we're melting a lil bit.  Thinking of my friends on the other side of the globe who are no doubt freezing a lil bit  ::)
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline AleB

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #142 on: January 19, 2018, 04:16:11 AM »
Keep my fingers cross for you H&F! It seemes we have similar situation... Loooong timing, clinging boomerang, drinking H....
Happy to see that your H can manage to stay away from the drinking.... Mine still runs and keep avoiding the problems with drinking.... Seemes to me that he will never give up alcohol....
You give us hope... Still...

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #143 on: January 19, 2018, 04:20:56 PM »
Thanks AleB, I'll check out your thread because I don't think I am familiar with your story.  I think H has dropped the drinking because he knows he should and is probably white knuckling it at the moment.

H came back from interstate last night but didn't come over because he said he was tired. I am also thinking that he would have been drinking the free beer from the lounge and then got an uber home.  I was monkey braining a lot last night because I had seen  the standby ow earlier in the day and started wondering if she had contacted him to catch up.  Since he is always with ow when he is in her town, this opportunity would never really present itself.

I am proud of myself for not checking his 'dot' on D16's phone and for not having looked at the phone records at all this week.  It gets a whole lot harder to look away when I hear he has broken off with ow.  I find myself crossing my fingers harder than normal which is a trap and usually ends up hurting me. 

I have to trust the process and have a little HopeandFaith that even if he caught up with standby ow and even turns her into the new ow, I still think he is headed toward home overall.  It was a good reminder to stay in my own lane.

I am having a few issues with S14 again and they are proving to be triggers for me because he is showing some sneaky behaviours  and arrogant thinking that I have seen from H.  He has lied about going to parties and getting drunk and left the house with his friends and went to McDonalds at 11.30pm the other night without telling me. 

School starts back in a week too so I am expecting a little bit of a war zone.  Fortunately, he has no classes with the 2 friends that he distracts and is distracted by.  D16 and D18 have been feeding me some info about his behaviour but I don't want to throw them under the bus by telling him I know so I am going to use the start of school as a reason for some new boundaries.  S14 has broken my trust on a number of occasions now and is losing respect for me.  Weirdly, I think he is hoping that I will get tougher because otherwise, he wouldn't be feeding this info to the D's.  I have often thought the same for H which helps me not be scared to push back when I need to and not be scared that he will run
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #144 on: January 21, 2018, 04:37:13 PM »
I was really worried to hear that your S14 is struggling so much, and that his behaviour is beyond unacceptable.

The fact he is 14 and getting drunk as well as being sneaky and disrespectful would be a major red flag.  He has an alcoholic father who is the serial cheater and so probably sees his mother as a woman who allows this behaviour over and over again and blames MLC for everything.  No wonder he thinks he can get away with acting this way.

H&F, not addressing the issues at hand could be a really bad idea for a 14-year-old you clearly need some professional help before he becomes a raging alcoholic at the age of 18.

Putting in a few boundaries before he goes back to school is not the solution and this boy needs professional help to deal with all the family issues he is having to deal with at such a young age.

I hope you stick back and have another look at this situation, as is not normal or okay for any of this behaviour to continue.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline MCSINME

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #145 on: January 21, 2018, 05:12:32 PM »
H&F:
FWIW - it sounds like you're doing a great job detaching and distancing from H.
Glad you feel like he's on the route home (albeit circuitous)...

I agree with SF that you need to get help for S14.  It's not easy for you to deal with alone, given that you're his main/only sane parent at this point, so you need some support and guidance to STOP this behavior.

Love to you and hope you can get help for him soon; hopefully before school starts back.

MCS
M56
H57 - Live-in MLC
Met 1984
Married 1990
MLC Began after major move 12/2016
BD#1 EA 5/17 Found by accident, denial, lying
BD#2 EA/PA 11/17 Found by accident, still Denial and lying.  Currently at least one ow (39)

S16, S19, S22

"but those who have hope in the LORD will renew their strength.  They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint"  Isiah 40:31

Offline hopeandfaithTopic starter

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2018, 12:42:01 AM »
Judging from your comments SF, I think I must have portrayed the situation with S14 as being worse than it is.  I don't yet feel like I need professional help because he is still responsive to boundaries I am putting in place.  For example, he wanted to be dropped at his friends house on our way home from the comedy show on Sat night.  I had heard that there was a party on so I told him no even though he assured me that he wasn't going to go to the party.  We argued, he slammed a door and then invited his friend over instead.  They played x-box til late and he was respectful and friendly in the morning.  I am getting all the usual, "the other parents let them" statements and he is getting all the usual "I don't care what the other parents do" statements from me. I told him that his assurances would take time to fill me with confidence given his recent behaviour.  He took that on the chin.

Getting professional help is certainly an idea that I will keep up my sleeve but I feel like I run the risk of unintentionally labelling him as a problem child a little prematurely which has it's own ramifications.  I also have to say that calling H an alcoholic serial cheater is also a premature label although I do acknowledge that his behaviour points to this.  S14, while showing similar traits to H is still on the spectrum of typical teenage behaviour and we all know that MLC can take a perfectly sane and loyal spouse there too unfortunately.

I am also fortunate to have H's support, along with everyone else.  We are all singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of what boundaries need to be put in place.

Journalling....
I had an awesome day today.  I caught up with CanLetGo for lunch and then we went for a walk on the beach.  It was a beautiful day and I felt very fortunate to be able to do this on a Monday.  Feels like breaking the rules somehow  ;D

The weekend was also pretty good.  H turned up on Sat morning to make breakfast having had a quiet night in watching Netflix on Fri night (not out with standby ow ).  We hung out, shopped and then he went for a Harley ride and I did my best impersonation of a domestic goddess.  We picked him up later for dinner and a comedy show so it was a great night.  H was in a slightly weird mood all night and was looking at me so much I actually got self conscious.

On Sunday, D16 and I went to a 1st birthday party which was a little awkward because I saw a lot of H's workmates again.  The 1 yr old belongs to Angel friend (refer earlier threads) and she is a flight attendant with H's company. I hadn't seen some of them since her birthday a couple of years ago when the topic of conversation was how good it was that H and I were back together  :-\.  Nevertheless, D16 and I spent the afternoon talking to the quality flighties.  H was tracking D16's dot and sent us a msg as soon as we left inviting us out for dinner, which we did.  His mood was so much happier.  I have noticed that whenever he goes out with us, he always seem to say that it's the best food he's ever eaten.  It's quite funny.  Obviously, it's our sparkling company that makes the food taste great.

He had been invited to the party but declined because he hated the small talk of the last one we went to there.  He chose to hang out at home with S14 instead. 
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Online CanLetGo

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Re: Just keep swimming, just keep swimming....
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2018, 03:29:35 AM »
‘‘Twas a lovely lunch 😊 we walked about 5km I think, we’ll be able to challenge Brain soon 😂😂😂

I’ve said it before, but without minimising S’s cheekiness, I do think it’s ‘normal’ teenage behaviour, pushing boundaries, testing things out, and I think you do have it very much under control...he’s not been given blessings/a green light to party, he’s getting his wings clipped as he tries to spread them wide...but I do think it’s a rite of passage for teenagers...that is being well managed.

Not surprised H had his eye you at dinner, bet you looked stunning 😊
Me 44
H 47
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014
OW 17 years younger


 

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