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Author Topic: My Story STANDING BRAVE  (Read 1646 times)

Online LionessTopic starter

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My Story STANDING BRAVE
« on: December 16, 2017, 09:42:11 AM »
I guess I really need to start a new thread.

Previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8839.msg632439#msg632439

I have been on HS now for 18months and what a journey it has been! I find myself here often when my brain is monkeying at 3 am in the morning, when I am lonely and afraid. The many stories I have read here and the connections I have made a long the way have been the most consistent and positively healing thing over the last year and half since BD. I am so grateful that this forum exists and I hope my story one day helps at least one person here.

I decided to call this thread: Standing Brave, because it's about standing and it's about my attempt at being brave while I re-configure my stand. It's about me finding a purpose for myself, and accepting that my H is truly gone. For those who have been following my story, you probably know that my H never actually talks to me or acknowledges my presence and existence even though he skypes with S5 and S2 who live with me full time. So I know that "closure" is not in the cards for me, nor that my H . As things stand and have been for a year and half now, my H decided that he was done with our marriage, and that was the end of the discussion. Not once did I actually get to know why and what we were supposed to do after his decision. We never talked about how to deal with the fact that we had young children or that we were due to move overseas so I can pursue my Phd. Before I could make sense of what was happening, my H was with an OW and it was not his fault if he "fell in love so fast"! The next thing I know, I was thrown in a chaotic and painful frenzy when I was still nursing a 6 months old, and planning an international move. What followed, well, is contained in the last three threads on this forum. I understand my marriage is over, it breaks my heart every day, but I accept that it is. I raise my two wonderful babies alone, in England, with minimal financial help from h. He skypes witht he kids regularly and it is only through these Skypes, which I have consistently facilitated (the Family Court judge was rather pleased with me on this  ::) ::)) that I get to know how my H is doing.

So as I approach the 2 years mark of the cluster bomb that was my BD, I find myself more reflexive of the reality of my life: if there is one thing I have learned is that no matter what happens with my marriage (or whatever this is), I need to learn two things: to stand for myself and to be brave.
Standing: The way I see standing is that for me it's about honour, self respect and valuing one self. While it supposes that one's life is on hold in the hope of salvaging a marriage, I don't see it in that sense. Standing for me is first and foremost about honour: I chose to marry this man, I loved him with all my heart and i promised him that come hell or high water I would not leave him. I promised to honour him and to honour what we had together. Now, I understand fully that our marriage is not anymore. But my promise does not have to be nulled and void. I will continue to do my best to respect H, and to honour him by raising children who will love him despite all the pain he has brought into their lives. I will not remain married to him because it hurts my heart in unimaginable ways, and it is a pain I am simply not equipped to handle well. I have decided to divorce him as a way to protect my heart and to give myself a chance to breathe and look forward to a different future. I know that my H would not have had the courage to divorce me, so I am freeing him and freeing myself of this unhealthy rope that binds us. I have faith, that one day, definitely not soon, my H and I will meet again and hold hands. But that day is not today and my H is in a dark place, a place that brings darkness into mine and my kids life and I need to stand out of his way, I need to stand into the light.

Bravery: I have never had a life that one could call easy. I was born and grew up in a country that was at war, I lost my family in unspeakable ways at a very early age. I have had to be brave in times when I would have preferred to close my eyes and simply die. When I met my H and saw how he looked at me and how he held me in his arms I felt I was finally home. I learned to be less afraid, I learned to trust. It was a new country, with a new language and different customs. He was my shelter and with him on my side I grew into a strong and confident and smart woman and it felt like he was the glue that kept my worlds together. He was the only man who ever made me feel like I wanted to have children with. He was my home, my best friend, my love. When he exploded 18 months ago, after 10 years together, I thought my own life was going to shreds. I was knocked down badly, even though I worked so hard not to show it. A year and half later I have come to a point that once again, I must and shall be brave, to pick up the pieces of my life again and rebuild.

I must be brave and accept and thank my H for giving me those wonderful 10 years of peace and love, and most of all, for giving me these wonderful children who are the best thing that has ever happened to me. I must be brave and accept that my H gave me the best of what he could give me and that is all. I often wonder if he is mentally unwell or if he just turned into an @$$hole over night but whatever it is, I must be brave enough to accept it even if I cannot make sense of it. I must and will be brave to imagine a life in which I may raise two boys on my own, with no way for me to quantify their dad's input. That their views on the world and on life will depend mostly on how bravely I navigate this life I am dealt with terrifies me to the core but that is my life and there is nothing i can do about it. I was privileged enough to be able to pay for a good legal representation and to ensure that I at least live with them 95% of the time. That has been an incredible gift from the heavens and I feel so blessed to at least not be embroidered in another interminable custody fight with an irrational mlcer. Still, I must be brave and soldier on, not let any of this hold me down. I must be brave as I try to finish this PhD and find a suitable employment that allows me to raise my kids in a decent way. I must be brave in finding a way to learn how to concentrate on my school work despite my H's daily emails. I must and will be brave.

For the upcoming year, I pray for more courage, for patience with my H and for kindness towards him. I pray for a good health for myself and for the boys and I pray for time. Time to breathe, time to find my way. Time to stand brave, to stand in the light.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:41:45 AM by Thunder »

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 04:12:51 PM »
Lioness, I'll be continuing on your journey with you.  You have shown amazing braveness and strength, and I like your determination to rebuild a good life.  Also, your gratefulness for what your H used to mean to you and for these incredible gifts that are your children jumped out at me.  I can imagine that finding gratefulness may be essential for us to heal from this experience.
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online moc

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 05:30:22 PM »
Lioness: you write so eloquently and as I sit here tonight, I am not as brave as you are.  Your are gracious and have much love within you.  I am not at that point but would like to be one day.  I know this was a journey for you and you sound healed with your babies.  I look forward to reading your words as they were just an inspiration to me on this dark day.
~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 08:42:36 PM »
I was hoping you'd start another thread.  I will be continuing on with you, Lioness.

Did H come over for the boys' birthdays? 

After all, tomorrow is another day.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 09:21:12 PM »
Thank you Puzzled, Moc and Still for your presence!

I just realized that my title actually says "Threat instead of Thread"  ;D ;D ;D Ah sometimes our hands type things we obviously feel on some subconscious level!

Still, can an admin please help fix this? I can change it on a post by post basis but would like to change the original title please help!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 09:23:39 PM by Lioness »

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 09:30:32 PM »
Journaling:

One of the toughest thing to wrap my head around is the nature of my H's MLC. My H is in a very special category of MLCers. He is not a vanisher, but he is not a typical clinging boomerang either. He is what you can call a "deeply incommunicative wallower". He doesn't really disappear, he emails me every day or so to let me know what time he will be calling the kids and to confirm that it is ok with me. Every time. I think I have spoken or posted about how these communications are the weirdest things I have ever seen. They all start the same way, consistently "Hello Lioness", whether it's an initial email or it's the 7th reply of the day. It took me time to know how to deal with them but once one of the forum members taught me the power of "Ok, that sounds good", I have mastered the art of replying to my H without sending my heart into a cycling episode, or literally rolling my eyes right back into the head!  :'( :'( :-X :-X . These communications are never about how the kids are, what they do or anything. Those are rarely if ever asked. I can tell when he is cycling too or when he is on an upswing episode: sometimes they are cocky sometimes they are sad. Obviously, since they are the only communications I have with him I used to spend so much time overanalyzing them. Now I don't and for the last few months, six or so, I have learned to limit them, mostly the number of replies I offer. I mean there is so many times one can confirm call schedules that happen at the same time every week. I know there are a other LBS who ignore completely their Hs emails but I can't because of the kids. So I read him but it took me time to learn how to manage them.

My H was here in the UK a week ago, to visit the boys. He was upset that I refused to invite him to their birthday party (I told him to organize his if he wants). Because we rarely see each other, I realize now that distance really helps. Even though my heart is still quite attached to this man, my reality, my every day life with the kids, pretty much has no space for him. A few crazy things happened when he was here:

** The day H arrived to pick up the kids, I asked my babysitter to take the kids to him downstairs. I still find it really hard to be in the same place with him. When the sitter arrived, H handed her an enveloppe with a card in it and £50.00 cash and wished her a Merry Christmas. She came back in and showed it to me and the card was to wish her Merry Christmas and to thank her for "helping him connect with his children"! OMG, this man who took me to court for "Child abuse", and who I still go above and beyond my will ensure that not only they can talk to him daily even though it is so disruptive, but that they actually hear nothing but good things about him (I am not the monster he wanted me to be), suddenly feels the sitter is the one to thank for his kids being able to connect with him? Ughhhhh....needless to say I never received a Chhristmas greetings card! Are you kidding me? But because MLC is MLC, there was no point in me picking up the phone to yell at him. I filed that in things that hurt my heart and my brain but over which I have absolutely no control.

** Then two days later, in the afternoon, I was at a bus stop near my house waiting for the bus when I sawH coming my way - I had not seen him since he arrived as the kids were handed by the babysitter. When he saw me, he started walking super fast and walked behind the bus shelter past me! I looked his way and he started signallinng that he was in a hurry, really like he didn't want to say hi! Then he yelled "I am rushing to get S5"! I said well you can say hi to me, I don't bite!" I smiled and he said hello but literally running off! I have to admit that as much as I understand that communication has broken down between us, I truly don't understand why? We have been apart for 18 months and he still couldn't have the courage to look me in the eyes and say hello? My lord what happened to this man? As usual, at first I felt like it was about me - I must have been such a horrible wife that even if i am raising this man's children on my own, he still doesn't see the need to act polite and conciliatory at the very least! But then come to think of it, this isn't about me! What the firetruck! That same evening, my sitter saw him  as he was dropping off the kids. I was coming in and apparently when he heard my voice he run off so quickly. Nanny said he was flustered! So either I am a monster or there is something deeply going on here that I cannot quite grasp!

** Two days before H was due to return to Canada, his biological dad passed away. The way I found out was so bizarre that I still can't quite understand what is going on with H. So I was due to get the boys on Sunday but that morning I was stranded in Belgium and wanted to call tell them that I would be home late and that the nanny was going to be the one home. I emailed H to ask to Skype and I only get this as a reply: Sorry, we are in church. Now, if you have been following my story you know that my H is more a New Agey type of spiritual person. He never went to churches unless my aunt was visiting as she is a devout catholic and h would just drop her off at church for mass. But that is all as far as I know. Prior to BD, my h paid $10K to attend "a human spirit warriorship" retreat led by a mormon woman turned budhist "teacher". So when I heard about him being in church I thought what on earth is going on now? But I didn't ask anything. An hour later I get another email (my H looooves emailing) to say that they are now out of the church and that I can call. Then 15 minutes later, he emails again to say that he was in church with the boys because his father passed away and he wanted me to know in case S5 asks any questions! That is how I found out. After the third email of the morning! You cannot make this stuff up!

I called a few minutes later and asked S5 I asked if he was around so I could offer my condolences. He didn't want to be on camera but I asked him what happened and that is when I found out that it was his bio dad not his adoptive dad (who raised him). I asked him if he was going to attend the funeral and he said that because his bio dad is Muslim they had to do the funeral right after he passed. I asked if he wanted to leave the boys earlier and he said he would bring them at the agreed upon time. And that was all the conversation.  I felt so sad because this dad never gave him closure and his mother never wanted to see him ever again. When we got married, my h was so torn because he wanted to invite him to the wedding but he didn't want to hurt his mother (45 years after they split, his mother still never wanted to see him. and I believe in this complex trauma is where my H's MLC took its roots). Anyway, I am glad I was able to "speak" to him even so briefly. It must have been the first time I was able to utter words that were kind and measured to him, without going into a tailspin myself. The next day he emailed to say that he caught a bad bug and wanted to know if the kids hadn't caught the same thing. They were fine so I told him so. I left it at that. I wished I could tell him he isn't alone - I know his family probably won't understand what the bio dad's death means to him - but given how things are between us, I put down my "fixer hat" and let things be just as they must.

Two days ago he emailed the following "Hello Lioness, How were the boys since I left Sunday? (I noticed that S2 is becoming more aware of my absence, when I leave, i..e more difficult for him)".  So there are three kinds of potential answers to this. Answer #1- No $h!te, what do you think Sherlock? Are you stupid? Answer #2:  Dear H,  the boys are absolutely devastated to see you go back to that basement studio you live in in Canada. They ask about you, especially S5, every day. S5 wonders if we will ever go back to "our home with daddy". Please stop this nonsense, tell me you are not losing your mind or at least you know something is wrong and you want to fix it for the boys. Tell me there is no other woman whistling in your ears that you are better off away from these beautiful babies we made. Tell me we are not forever forsaken. Answer #3, which is the one I sent: Hello H, thanks for checking in. The boys are both doing great! (Then I go yell and scream in my pillow and cry myself to sleep).

We leave for Canada in two days, the boys will be spending Christmas with h and his parents. I am dreading not spending Christmas with my children but i have reached out to friends to tell them that I anticipate a tough holiday period. So I was invited to spend Christmas with two wonderful friends who I consider family. I will leave the kids in Canada and go south to the US to be with them. I think considering the craziness of this life, I am lucky that I have people I can reach out to and who have known me long enough that I don't have to feel awkward about them. It's a true blessing. So even if I will miss the boys, I know I will be well cared for and that brings me a lot of joy.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 10:12:05 PM »
Hello Lioness,

J/K!

Yes, your MLCer is very bizarre.

Good to hear a post from you.  Does H know that you are there when he skypes the kids?  Maybe he just assumes that you are always gone and that the nanny is always there.  Who knows in that mixed up brain of his.

I hope that your travels are safe, and that the Holidays aren't too difficult without your precious babies.  I pray that the time goes quickly before you have them in your arms again!

(((HUGS)))
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 10:56:00 PM »
My timeline is similar, and some of my reflections too. I really like your thoughts on Standing and Being Brave in the insanity of this. Like you, I decided to recognise the man who was my H is lost but to try to find a way to let go that honours the vows I made to him. Like you, I decided to try to be brave enough to work with what I have while treasuring what was lost. I have wondered sometimes if, rather than failing to save my H, God actually protected me by removing him from my life...or at least for now.

None of this is easy, and I can't imagine how much harder it is with small children. Or being without them at this time of year, even though you are giving your boys the gift of time with their father (or someone who looks like him  ::)) I hope that your time with friends is at least a chance for you to feel cared for and looked after too.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 12:10:19 AM »
Hello Lioness,

J/K!

Yes, your MLCer is very bizarre.

Good to hear a post from you.  Does H know that you are there when he skypes the kids?  Maybe he just assumes that you are always gone and that the nanny is always there.  Who knows in that mixed up brain of his.

I hope that your travels are safe, and that the Holidays aren't too difficult without your precious babies.  I pray that the time goes quickly before you have them in your arms again!

(((HUGS)))

Thank you so much Faith! Well it is true that the nanny is often home when he calls as I am still at work. Butthe H i know would have brought 2 cards because he would have known that the nanny only knows when to put the kids online because I let her know! Anyway I just hated that he was "playing favorites" with someone he doesn't even help me pay! But what am I doing trying to make sense of this man's behavior !
Ps: yesterday I was home when he called and he told S5 that he really liked the star we have on the Christmas tree! He usually rarely comments on anything in the house!

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 12:15:39 AM »
It's a funny MLC gift when they do things that are just so bizarre, so unnecessary and so not in reaction to anything we've said or done...like a little reminder that a) they are bats$it crazy and b) never was about us  :)
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 12:41:15 AM »
Exactly Treasur! So very true, but it is hard not to look for "our fault" in this! I mean I am certain I wasn't a perfect wife, no one is! But we had a good relationship, we had young children, we were planning an international move because he was really for me doing this PhD in a prestigious institution and i had just gotten him through graduate school in a programme he liked. We had always been supportive of each other and we were beyond helpful with each other.
We had issues for sure but we were generous, understanding and really kind towards each other in our marriage. While he was on the self absorbed nature (a writer and man of ideas more than I was really ) he was never the kind to "intentionally" be selfish! So yes, even two years in I really can't to seem to find enough of a strong reason for this kind of behaviour let alone of the cluster firetruck BD created! At BD he said he never wanted to marry me in the first place, that he suffered emotional abuse in the marriage and that he wanted to leave many times before but I wouldn't let him go! And then that he just stayed out of pity for poor me who had no family but him! So somedays I wonder : what if all of that is true and it really is about me? What if I am crazy as he says, that I was abusive and that he had had enough of me!  But then I think, wait a second, no, it isn't! This is not about me! I was a good wife, I respected him and his space, I yelled often after frustration had built up but even then why wouldn't he at least try marriage counselling? Wasn't our life worth that chance? Weren't the boys deserving of him trying to work out some arrangement that would be less traumatic?

While at times it was hard to find what it was that was my fault and what wasn't, I am now only learning to find things about us that I need to hold on to. Things I know were true. Your posts and reflections on that has been very helpful!

Quote
I have wondered sometimes if, rather than failing to save my H, God actually protected me by removing him from my life...or at least for now.


Yes, Very much this! A long time ago, I had a breakup with a boyfriend in my first year of university and I was heartbroken! Like I often did back then, I went to see Sister C, the nun who used to run the Catholic high school I had attended and who is like my spiritual guide. I remember her telling me that sometimes God has to forcefully remove things from your life when he knows they may hurt you but you aren't equipped to remove them on your own. At the time it was a boyfriend I really had fallen hard for but who didn't treat me right. This time though this theory just doesn't fit! Last night I was sad and read a card Sister C. wrote to me when I left my home country for Canada 15 yrs ago! I am not sure why God would give me a husband, make me feel settled and loved, give me a glimpse of a family life, to then take it all away! What could possibly be better than that which H and I had and the dreams we held for our family? It just doesn't add up!!!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 12:58:20 AM by Lioness »

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 12:51:59 AM »
So somedays I wonder : what if all of that is true and it really is about me? But then I think, wait a second, no, it isn't! This is not about me! So I am now only learning to find things about us that I need to hold on to. Things I know were true. Your post and reflections on that has been very helpful!
We all do...but a bit of detachment helps us see that it just isn't our crazy but theirs...if it was ours, our M would have felt different and we would have been able to stop the crazy train  ;D

I am not sure though why God would give me a husband, make me feel settled and loved, to then take him away! It just doesn't add up!!!
I wondered that too...why God would 'let' my H destroy so many good things? My simple instinct now is that God isn't in charge of the destruction, that maybe he is trying to help H fight his own demons and that God took my broken H away to protect me from a darkness that I couldn't do anything about, that would hurt me more and break my ability to still feel love for my H. I do believe that when I have felt God's hand in small moments of grace, they have always been recognisable by their fruits...they give love and kindness and compassion, not the anger and fear and destruction of MLC.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 01:30:27 AM »
Quote
I wondered that too...why God would 'let' my H destroy so many good things? My simple instinct now is that God isn't in charge of the destruction, that maybe he is trying to help H fight his own demons and that God took my broken H away to protect me from a darkness that I couldn't do anything about, that would hurt me more and break my ability to still feel love for my H.

I certainly do believe, very strongly, that divine forces (and my mother's spirit) are protecting me and the kids from drowning with my H and the darkness he is dealing with. Because there have been miracles after miracles in our lives over the last 18months that aren't just random. For starters that I was able to leave Canada with the boys, legally, was nothing but an act of God. That the boys seem happy and adjusting to this is another blessing. So yes, we are protected. I have written here before about my ambivalent relationship with God, but I am more and more being drawn to this idea that a supreme force exists and is wrapping its arms around me and my kids.

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 03:14:04 PM »
I also can relate to feeling that there is divine intervention in our lives.  I strongly felt that God tried to prevent me from experiencing such great pain (by breaking H and me apart when we first dated).

Reading about your H's behavior, it is quite striking that he so blatantly avoids you.  Giving your babysitter a Christmas card and thanking her but not you?  Trying to run away when seeing/hearing you?  What is behind this -- feelings of guilt or knowing that after facing you, he would not be able to sustain the image he built up of you being Beelzebub himself disguised as a woman?  Also, it will be interesting to see if his bio dad's death will have a perceivable impact on his behavior.

Wishing you a lovely stay with your friends in the US!
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 04:21:22 PM »
Reading about your H's behavior, it is quite striking that he so blatantly avoids you.  Giving your babysitter a Christmas card and thanking her but not you?  Trying to run away when seeing/hearing you?  What is behind this -- feelings of guilt or knowing that after facing you, he would not be able to sustain the image he built up of you being Beelzebub himself disguised as a woman?  Also, it will be interesting to see if his bio dad's death will have a perceivable impact on his behavior.

Wishing you a lovely stay with your friends in the US!

Thank you Puzzled! Well I don't really get it either. While I believe he has built a version of our story in which I am of course the devil's older sister - and I must admit I still harbor so much grudge against him about it - I still find his inability or unwillingness to communicate with me  all the while ruffling around people whom he knows I am in very close contact with really perplexing ! I mean he knew the babysitter would tell me! When he was rushing to get past me, it was clear I could see him! I feel like he doesn't want to communicate with me but he still needs me to know what it is he is doing! I mean he emailed my aunt a little while ago that the kids are in good hands with me. He must have known that she would tell me! Or not, MLCers minds are hard to decipher!

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2017, 05:29:18 PM »
Have a safe trip over across the pond, Lioness. 

I am glad you have friends to spend Christmas with.  I hope that you can find some peace and joy in Christmas, even though you are away from your lovelies. 

Sending good travel wishes your way. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.

Online moc

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2017, 07:28:32 PM »
Ladies, I just want to say thank you for your words on this post.  I was reading along today and sorry to jump in on your thoughts.  I appreciate the following:

I have wondered sometimes if, rather than failing to save my H, God actually protected me by removing him from my life...or at least for now.


My simple instinct now is that God isn't in charge of the destruction, that maybe he is trying to help H fight his own demons and that God took my broken H away to protect me from a darkness that I couldn't do anything about, that would hurt me more and break my ability to still feel love for my H.

So I am sorry to tag along and comment I just want to say thank you for putting this honestly out there on the forum.  That has really helped me today with my MLCer wife.  That I can change the "H" to "W" for myself and repeat and repeat it to me.  Thank you so much!
~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 09:56:26 AM »
Wow Lioness. The nanny gift is truly crazy. And yet it does seem to fall in line with their need to be the good guy. See how nice I am? I’m giving nanny a thoughtful gift. My guess is he could care less what she does for the children and is more than well aware of all you have done and continue to do for your boys. He just cannot express that to YOU bc you are the reason for all that is wrong and unpleasant in his life right now.

I know how frustrating and hard it is to watch all of it though. To see them behave somewhat normal while treating us like we are the anti-Christ. It’s hard not to take that personally. Bc it is personal to us. Add in the holidays and our emotions are on high alert. So give yourself leave to be sad. I know you do that. Your strength, compassion, fortitude and grace astonish me continually! Whenever I feel overwhelmed and think there’s no possible way to get everything done, I think of you—with 2 small children all on her own. Amazing and inspiring.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 04:51:01 PM »
Ladies, I just want to say thank you for your words on this post.  I was reading along today and sorry to jump in on your thoughts.  I appreciate the following:

I have wondered sometimes if, rather than failing to save my H, God actually protected me by removing him from my life...or at least for now.


My simple instinct now is that God isn't in charge of the destruction, that maybe he is trying to help H fight his own demons and that God took my broken H away to protect me from a darkness that I couldn't do anything about, that would hurt me more and break my ability to still feel love for my H.

So I am sorry to tag along and comment I just want to say thank you for putting this honestly out there on the forum.  That has really helped me today with my MLCer wife.  That I can change the "H" to "W" for myself and repeat and repeat it to me.  Thank you so much!

I agree!
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 09:20:31 PM »
Wow Lioness. The nanny gift is truly crazy. And yet it does seem to fall in line with their need to be the good guy. See how nice I am? I’m giving nanny a thoughtful gift. My guess is he could care less what she does for the children and is more than well aware of all you have done and continue to do for your boys. He just cannot express that to YOU bc you are the reason for all that is wrong and unpleasant in his life right now.

I know how frustrating and hard it is to watch all of it though. To see them behave somewhat normal while treating us like we are the anti-Christ. It’s hard not to take that personally. Bc it is personal to us. Add in the holidays and our emotions are on high alert. So give yourself leave to be sad. I know you do that. Your strength, compassion, fortitude and grace astonish me continually! Whenever I feel overwhelmed and think there’s no possible way to get everything done, I think of you—with 2 small children all on her own. Amazing and inspiring.

Thank you KIT. Yes, my H is absolutely hellbent on denying the reality of his treatment of me and showing everyone just how amazing he is. And at times I think he actually fools me too. I mean, every other day I think, my god,  LOOK AT such a wonderful man who loves his children and wants to be connected with them (that is what I hear and see in people's eyes when I tell them he calls every day), this is just about you Lioness: you are the bad person, the wrong one, you are the reason he couldn't be with you. He loves EVERYBODY ELSE except you. I have never experience such raw rejection in my life.

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 10:01:59 PM »
JOURNALING:

It has been incredibly hard for me the last few days, I think partly because I have a tendency to experience trauma long AFTER it has happened and I was still dealing with H's last visit and the rejection - just sheer rejection I felt and saw in his eyes for me, perhaps even contempt of who I am as a person, as a mother and it's now slowly sending me in a small tailspin. My lord, I am hurt, in ways I have never been hurt before: to the core of my being. This man is actively making me question my self, my own memories of what my marriage was like every day and I am afraid I am slowly giving in, finding fault in my ways and just taking the blame.

The upcoming trip is also making my soul literally paralyzed. We leave tomorrow for Canada and I will have to communicate with H so that I can speak with the boys. I will see them in that family's home, enjoying Christmas without me, and knowing that this is how my boys will grow is like having your soul crushed over and over again. I never once thought that this is the life I would have, that I will be asking friends if I could go hide my pain in their fun and happy-filled homes so I can breathe a bit before I continue to carry it, for ever. But this is what I have become, a wandering ball of sorrow, and the saddest thing is that I, at some level, actually believe it is my fault what is happening to my boys and what's happened to me. I don't blame myself, I somehow just have internalized so much of what H said that all I can think of is, well, obviously I am the only person here who does not seem to get along with a man who gets along with everybody, who loves his children and whose family and friends find sane enough to believe all the things he tells them.

Yesterday was also our wedding anniversary, 10 years, 2 beautiful babies and he wouldn't even tell me, to my face, that we were done. I replayed the chaos of BD and realized that he never actually told me we were done, his mother did, when I called her crying the day after I found out he had been cheating. She said "He said he is done with you Lioness, and that you can go to England if you want but you cannot take the children". I remember starting to shake, right there right then, that him and his family were going to take my kids away. I remember the day after when I called his other friend, who literally refused to believe me when I said he had been cheating. He said "Lionness, you have to accept that he is done with you and that this doesn't change anything". I remember the shame I felt, every time he or his friends said that I was unable to "accept" that the marriage was over. I still feel something deeply painful when I read about "accepting the separation". I relieved these moments last night, I cried like never before and I am asking God or whomever deals with humanity's tears: Why? What is it about ME that makes this happen and how do I get rid of this pain? how do I stop worrying that my beautiful boys will end up just like their father? I mean isn't it this way, by broken families and unresolved issues, that our own MLCers started?

My boys, my lovely babies: how on earth am I going to raise two black boys, in this world full of hatred and bigotry and terror, without a solid father-figure and protect them from ending just like many other black boys: either dead or in jail before they even reach adulthood? How will I be both strong and fragile enough so they can be balanced? How will I do so when their father is nothing but a screen presence, without any input in their discipline? When he is not there to see them grow, go to their games and their plays, cheer on them? I was at my S5 nativity play the other day and he was beautiful and had memorized his line without even my help. I couldn't help but miss his father on his behalf, when I saw parents shuffle around to take pictures of their kids and their kids all beaming with pride. I can't help but cry when I realize that S2 won't know what a man does in the house, he has never seem one cook, bring flowers, kiss or treat me. All they see is me, hustling every morning to get them out of the house, or rushing them to finish their dinners. Of course I am strong, and they will know it. But how will they know how to breathe, if I cannot show it to them? how can I show it to them, if I cannot do it myself? And most importantly, who will take care of me so I can take care of them too?

I don't often get anxious, I rarely allow myself such things really - but lately, anxiety has been creeping in on me slowly. What's going to happen to my babies if I get sick? What if I fail at school and lose the only income I have? What if, what if, what if? What if I really can't mentally stay strong enough to take care of them - after all H said I was crazy at BD and that he was worried about me and what would happen to the boys if I go full mental - even though I had been married to the man for years and had never had any panick attack during that whole period, suddenly he is questioning my ability to take care of the kids. But what if he is right, what if this - me fighting to raise the boys on my own and do my studies - what if this is a battle that I have already lost and I am simply delaying the inevitable to use the words my H wrote to me after BD to say that we separating was meant to happen anyway. Oh my heart aches in a million ways when I think about all of this. Basically, what if he knows me better than I know myself and he is right, I am nothing but a ticking bomb of an explosion waiting to go off, at some point? What if he is right?

Self-doubt is a seriously horrible thing to have and I don't remember having this much self-doubt before. I don't remember question the very core of who I am, what I believe in and what I can and cannot tolerate. A friend told me yesterday that with time all this will clear but as that Anne Murray song says :
"All my friends say I'll survive
It just takes time
But I don't think time is gonna heal this broken heart
No I don't see how it can if it's broken all apart
A million miracles could never stop the pain
Or put all the pieces together again"

I know that somehow I will continue to live, that maybe I may even find it in me to fall for someone else again but I don't think my broken heart will ever heal. I have lost people before, too many that I can't really tell, and I know that one's heart does not really heal. It gets patched up over time, one learns tricks to appease the soul, but one cannot heal really. Losing my H, losing the dreams I had for us, losing a father for my children (if one more person says "oh but lioness, he still loves his children, (i.e he just wants a divorce from YOU)", I swear I am going to lose it), losing myself, I don't think I am ever going to heal and be strong and trusting and loving and whole again. My faith is so shaken, my core is lost. I am heartbroken, there is just no way around it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:12:25 PM by Lioness »

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 11:39:00 PM »
Lioness, my darling girl...first I am sitting here holding your hand quietly and saying I know, I know it hurts and I know it's frightening and I know you feel lost in doubt and that you feel vulnerable and wounded. I know.

I want you to remind yourself, just for a moment, that last year life - at your H's hand - threw you a life-altering OMG motherf**ker of a trauma. It just did. No matter the whys and wherefores, it just did. Life punched you right in the face and threatened everything that matters most to you. It just did.

You existed before your H and before your M and before your boys. And Lioness has some fight in there, just like your name suggests. So, it's time to fight for your treasures and protect your cubs. I don't know if your H is in MLC, or an a$$hat, or depressed...right now, that's not the most important thing, and time will tell so it's ok to let that be for a moment. But his opinion of you is not germane right now and it won't help you, it's toxic - if he's in MLC, it's not about you, if he's an a$$hat, that's not your fault either. But your opinion of you is relevant and it can help you and your boys.

Someone said that depression is about the past and anxiety about the future...and as an LBS with kids, you have enough on your plate to deal with in the present too. I don't know what will happen with your H, neither do you, or what kind of father he will evolve into. But I see you getting beaten down by a whole bunch of 'what ifs' which aren't real and haven't happened yet...there are a lot of fine, good black boys and men out there who are testaments to fine, strong mothers who taught them pride and boundaries and self-respect and grace. I don't know how you will build a structure for life and a support system for you and your boys...but I know others have and I have absolute faith that you can. I believe in you, Lioness - by contrast, I wouldn't trust your H's judgment on what day of the week it is!

No, I don't think big wounds disappear as you say...I think we survive them and, as we slowly heal, the scars fade and we build up layers of new skin. Your instincts are sound, Lioness - spot on - you know that your job is to find a way to breathe, punch the doubt in the nose and show your boys the important lesson of how you deal with adversity gracefully. Small steps lead to bigger steps...but keeping your H's voice out of your head is the key right now...other people can support and encourage you, but right now, he is like a virus and you are going to do what you need to do to build a big protective bubble around you and your boys. He is a broken, disordered man right now and you can't fix him but you also can't let his crazy in either. It isn't your crazy and it was never about you or even your marriage.

I've read your words and I hear your spirit, Lioness. I know you can do it. Now, you just need to trust that you can too. We're here, and we will walk with you and your boys x
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 11:41:30 PM by Treasur »
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 01:25:51 AM »
Lioness, I can feel your pain and am here, too, to hold your hand and walk with you.  When reading Treasur's eloquent post, I was nodding along.  Every sentence is spot on.  This is NOT about you, Lioness!  Your H is currently a mess, no matter how well he may fool others.  A "normal" separation, even if only one person wants it, looks differently, I'm sure.  If it were, he wouldn't let you move across the Atlantic and blatantly ignore you or literally run away from you and report you to child protective services.  He would firm up terms that spell out custody arrangements and be involved in schooling decisions etc.  He would be willing to PAY adequately so that his boys are well taken care of while their mom gets her PhD.  Please try to shrug off his voice and words, they rather describe him, not you.
Lots of hugs to you!  You are lovely.
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2017, 02:06:13 AM »
Thank you Treasur and Puzzled. I appreciate your kind words and your reassurance. I am a mess I think. This morning I went to drop off S5 to school and realized that most parents had brought flowers and christmas cards to give to the teachers to thank them. I of course have none of that. I felt awful, like my kid is going to be known as the one whose mom is a single mother. The one who isn't involved in parents' things, the one whose mother is always rushed!

I felt terrible that I simply keep up with all that "normal" families do, that my kids will be isolated as a result. I know this is more in my head, and that in a couple weeks it will not matter at all. But this nagging feeling that I just won't be able to pull it off is killing me! Even though in my head I know I am doing well and that my kids are happy and adjusted and well behaved, in my heart well it's another story.

I will try to keep reminding myself that H does not get to DEFINE ME, and that his opinion of who I am doesn't matter. He is the one who is a coward, while I am alone in the trenches of early childhood parenting. He is the one who was cruel enough to call child services and sue me for child abuse when I was trying to stop my breastmilk from drying up so I can nurse my child until he was at least 1 year old. Please tell me that somewhere in this universe or the next, there is a vengeful God who will venge me, who will help me rise from this pain and stand strong. I am 37 years old, raising two young boys on my own, without no reliable strong income and a husband who clearly enjoys mental torture.

I am tired of hurting, I am tired of being strong. I want to crawl in my bed and sleep and dream of sunny and beautiful places and of my kids happy and playful. I want this man gone from my life, or at the very least from my head so I can start again without him hovering over me. I understand a father is important but OMG I can't see how an MLCer dad is in any way shape or form an advantage for the kids. The other day, after I told S5 that I didn't have money to buy him this one toy he wanted, he asked me if I wanted him to talk to his dad to give me money. I said no, and I was sad because I realized that he does know what is really going on.

Yesterday my best friend and her parents came to visit me: they live in France and they made the trip so we can have a "home Christmas" before the boys go off to Canada. I see all these friends around me, loving and supportive and I panic that I will disappoint them if I fall apart with this MLC. Obviously the continued stonewalling in our communication H and I, or whatever, is overwhelming me. I am wondering if I need to be the one making efforts to tell him about the kids etc but at the same time dealing with his stupid emails which will result in any increased level of "child-focused" communication will send me in a tailspin. When I told my BFF's mom that I find it hard to deal with H and his "un-communicative communications", she asked me if I try to be "nice and tell him things about the kids as a way to help with communication", and I felt slightly that she was saying I need to "set aside my feelings" but the kids need me more than they need him at the moment and at the moment I need myself sane. It's hard to know how to navigate this. I am just so worried of falling apart!

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2017, 02:27:35 AM »
I felt awful, like my kid is going to be known as the one whose mom is a single mother. The one who isn't involved in parents' things, the one whose mother is always rushed!
Pfft - a (married) friend of mine calls it the schoolyard mafia, and always feels bad that she doesn't have time or skill for baking cakes or making elaborate costumes...you're a busy woman, f**k 'em

I know this is more in my head, and that in a couple weeks it will not matter at all. 
Quite right...ride the cycle, it will pass

I will try to keep reminding myself that H does not get to DEFINE ME, and that his opinion of who I am doesn't matter. He is the one who is a coward, while I am alone in the trenches of early childhood parenting. He is the one who was cruel enough to call child services and sue me for child abuse when I was trying to stop my breastmilk from drying up so I can nurse my child until he was at least 1 year old.
Seriously, what kind of sane adult parent does this? Bats$it crazy MLC, that's who. Wouldn't trust his opinion on anything right now, let alone you.

I am tired of hurting, I am tired of being strong.
And maybe the 'gift' of the boys being away is that you can crawl into bed. You're understandably exhausted. Take the time for a bit of sleep, food and simple self-TLC

I see all these friends around me, loving and supportive and I panic that I will disappoint them if I fall apart with this MLC.
They won't be thinking that way and you won't fall apart - or not for long before you get up again

but the kids need me more than they need him at the moment and at the moment I need myself sane.
Yes, a thousand times yes...so that's your No 1 job right now
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Philadelphiagirl

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2017, 04:03:04 AM »
Hi, just sending you love and support. My wedding anniversary was yesterday. I know how difficult this all is. You are incredibly strong and are looking after your boys so well. I am the school parent who is disorganised but I have just let it go. I am on my own here and so can only do so much. We should be able to rely on the ML'er for at least help with the kids but we cannot rely on them for anything. Take care of yourself over Christmas, next year is going to be our year! Take care, Phillyg xxx 

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 08:23:33 AM »
Thank you Philly. I hope you are doing well too. Well this afternoon was a bit of a disaster as I forgot that since it was the last day of school, there was no after school club. So I was at work when I got a call that my kid was waiting for me to be picked up. Ughhh....it just feels like nothing is working out right today. But, thank God it is over and done. As you say PG, next year is our year! Merry Christmas friend.

Offline Tyks

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2017, 09:29:47 AM »
Lioness, it is just a cycle because of the holidays and your upcoming trip.  Let yourself feel it and then pick yourself up and carry on.  Continue faking it if you must.  In the long run you have won.  You fought for custody and you won.  You are a winner-winner!!!
Me 48
Him 48
22 years together - Married 20
BD1 - August 26, 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD 2 - August 28, 2016 - OW discovered EA - Kicked him out - currently separated
D15 D18

April 2017 - Legal Separation Agreement
August 2017 - I filed for divorce

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2017, 09:37:35 AM »
Thank you Tyks, for visiting my thread and for reminding me of this VERY IMPORTANT detail:I fought for my kids and I won. I won.
Yes, I can see how this is a phase, I can see how crazy it is and yet I can't seem to stop it this time. It is so weird. My mind is here and there all at once.

Offline Velika

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2017, 10:21:23 AM »
Lioness, I can deeply relate. I think there is a ton of pressure from people who just do not know and can't hear us say how very unwell and/or disordered our former spouses are. They don't understand how we have to protect ourselves and just what we have dealt with, and the ongoing trauma of dealing with someone whose interactions are almost reptilian.

I actually feel (and you know this) that you — and many of us mothers — are dealing not with divorce but abuse. Therefore, the advice is not correct. If your ex had beat you severely, your best friend's mom would not be giving you this same advice. However, because the bruises are not evident, you are being asked to do something that I think is ultimately not in anyone's best interest, which is to pretend that abuse is okay, normal, and something that is the victim's responsibility to manage.

My therapist told me that when someone won't own the shame of their crimes, then the victim ends up bearing the shame. This is most often recognized in case of rape or sexual harassment, and less so with other types of abuse. Our exes have done such a good job of shocking us and in this vulnerable state putting their shame onto us that we now have a hard time disentangling from it. What is worse, because of the children, they have our heart in a vice grip.

I would really like to become someone who is vocal about emotional abuse and find a way to speak up that shows just how creepy these perpetrators are. I feel disgusted with your ex and mine, as you know, and for the cowardly and disgusting way they have treated us.

As time goes on, I feel even more affronted by how they have treated our children. I would like to know of one mother whose ex regularly beat her who would be told that it was her responsibility to hide this crime and mistreatment from the children.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2017, 11:48:22 AM »
Dear Lioness:

I want you to know that some LBS have wound up in psychiatric facilities and some, tragically, have even taken their own lives. My heart broke into 3 large pieces while I was bedridden in shock. It was so painful that I almost took myself to the hospital, but decided not to leave the kids after their dad had already abandoned them.

What we experienced was so shattering, such a complete shock to the system, and deeply traumatizing because we never saw it coming: No warning, no sirens sounding to alert us to take cover from the impending bomb blast. But what is even worse is that we don't get the "All Clear" because the bombs continue to rain down over and over again. We just have to put on our armor and take the hits.

Please, pay no attention to your sick husband's ravings. The man who comforted you and loved you so very much is gone. And please, ignore the blowhards who know nothing about our situations and deign to give us advice. They have no idea how tough we were just to force ourselves to get out of bed and eat something so we would have the strength to fight for our kids and yes, for our terribly ill spouses.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2017, 03:38:06 PM »
Oh L, sounds like a lot of us are having some major cycling right now.  It goes with the time of year, and then on top of that you have the stress of your upcoming travel and being away from your kids.

As for your beautiful, sweet, black babies, they will be okay!  They have you!  There are tons of black men who have grown up without a Dad and turned out just fine.

I came across this article a while back and had saved the link.  Maybe for just such a post as I read today?  I hope it helps.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/when-kids-call-the-shots/201606/boys-without-fathers-3-myths-3-miracles

Here are a couple things that stood out to me if you don't have time to read it right now.

Quote
3 Miracles Of Children Raised by Single Mothers

1. Men raised without fathers are equally successful in life

The history of the United States is filled with stories of single mothers raising successful men. In fact, it dates back our first president, George Washington to President Obama. You can also find endless lists on-line of inventors and innovators, Olympic athletes and musicians who were raised by single mothers. 

2. Men who grew up without fathers can be outstanding parents 

The men featured IN A PERFECT WORLD... quietly grew into and embraced their role of dad. In fact, it is their history that fuels their determination to honor and love their own sons and daughters even more. 

3. Man raised by women are often more sensitive and attuned emotionally

In my twenty-two years of leading therapy groups, I’ve discovered that men and teenage boys raised by single mothers are frequently more sensitive to the feelings and needs of others, and more mindful in relationships with women.


Quote
Growing up in ideal circumstances doesn’t guarantee happiness. IN A PERFECT WORLD… reveals that the “who’s missing” isn’t as important as “who’s there.” After all, everyone faces obstacles in life; health complications, sudden tragedies, divorce.  IN A PERFECT WORLD… drops the labels and proves that with the right support, role models and love, any child can succeed.

Hang in there my friend.  This is a stressful time.  Sending lots of (((HUGS))).  It is not YOU.  I know, I have said the same things that you have said and I still swing back and forth with doubts and uncertainties.  But your H is definitely running from himself.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2017, 04:06:36 PM »
Oh Lioness I could feel your pain and angst in every sentence! Being sad is painful. Bring string all the time is exhausting. Thinking we have to be everything to our children all the time is overwhelming. Add in jobs, household duties, and everything else life throws at us and we are ready to check ourselves into the looney bin. But, the good news is, feeling this way is normal. I mean, it totally sucks. Don’t get me wrong. But we have all feltbthis and we keep going. YOU have kept going. You have done everything for your boys including facilitating communication with their defective dad. All you’ve done and continue to do comes from such unselfish love that your boys feel and have always felt from you. And they will be better MEN for it.

Huge hugs to you my friend. You are amazing!
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2017, 07:59:23 PM »
Lioness:

If you can, take your husband to a neurologist or neuropsychiatrist. A few tests is all it takes to figure out what went terribly wrong with him.

bv

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2017, 10:00:54 PM »
Please, bv. I know this is an important issue for you but asking LBS - who can't even get their spouse to return a phone call or see children - to 'take' their spouse anywhere for a medical investigation is impracticable and almost unkind in some situations.

Lioness - sending you a big hug and hoping you get to recharge your batteries over the next few days.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 04:52:38 AM »
Lioness,

I like your name - I know you live up to it!

Just wanted you to know that I am reading along and cheering you on.

Our self esteem takes a great big hit at BD and we often struggle to pick up the pieces, so take your time and use the next few days to self soothe and remind yourself of what and who you are.

((((Hugs))))
M 56
H 56
S 25
S 24
D 22
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 06:32:08 AM »
Oh how I love you guys and how I feel so very lucky that you are there, listening and holding my hand in this painful journey!

KIT - YES, so many times I feel like I am failing my boys, that I am not good enough for them. I know I am doing my best and one of the hardest things I have ever done is to still facilitate contact with their crazy dad, very much knowing that he really has absolutely nothing to offer them at the moment. Maybe he will, one day, give them something of himself but at the moment he is not able to do so. And it hurts my heart!

Bv - I don't have that kind of power to make my H do anything really.

Treasur - Thank you for speaking out for me friend. Most of us have absolutely no power over our spouses, so I don't really know how one can "take them" anywhere. I mean, the man is not my property, he lives in another country, doesn't speak to me and he runs off (see previous posts) when he sees me. How the firetruck am I supposed to take him to see any doctor anywhere?. And most importantly, who's going to look after my boys while I spend my energy and time shopping for the doctor to cure whatever it is my H suffers from?

Mitzpah - Thank you.

Journaling:
I think I don't give my boys and their resilience enough credit and I really should. Despite all they have gone through over the last two years, despite the constant moving and despite how little time I have to be with them, despite all their father's $h!te, when my head is clear and not clouded with pain and sorrow, I can see that my Kids are truly amazing. They are happy, well adjusted and get along quite well. S5 looks after his brother and they really both seem ok. No behavioural problems, none that I see anyway. S5 is always trying to make sense of what is going on between me and his dad, and S2 is well, still unaware of it all. But they both really love us, me and their dad, and they are dealing with all of this the best way anyone can: by letting it unfold on its own.


I landed in Canada yesterday afternoon. The flight was long and exhausting but the boys really behave well. This time S2 had his own seat, because up until he was 2, he was traveling on my lap. This was nice as I was able to rest my legs when he was sleeping. S5 is an amazing traveller, he listens to me and doesn't wander off. I now know what to prepare for them, when and how much to feed them and who to rely on among my fellow passengers to help if I need to. I had emailed H two days before all the flight information, and told him I would only contact him if there is any last minute change or an emergency since I am traveling with two young kids and have no time (you would think this is something anyone would know, but H doesn't. The last time we came he emailed 7 times checking where we were, it really is hard to deal with someone who lives in another reality!!).

Anyway, when I landed, customs took a long time as there was a long line up of people! And then I was asked if I had the right to travel with the children alone! I had a brief second of panic of course, but I told the customs officer that I do since they live with me in England and that I have custody. I always travel with a copy of the Court Order too just in case. Oh man, who knew that this is how I will be spending my adulthood, trying to defend my self as a mother! I get to the luggage carrousel, with one baby strapped on me and another on my hand, both tired and cranky, and as I wait for two suitcases to come, I briefly check my phone and H had of course emailed! The man is unable to remain firetrucking calm and waiting for me to come out with the boys. He said this " Hope all is well.....I am at arrivals". I was dismayed of course but ignored. I asked a nice gentleman to help me put the bags on the cart and took S5 to the bathroom and then we headed for the Exit.

H was waiting outside. S5 run to him and I was trying to find a spot to stop the cart as there were a lot of people and S2 had seen him and was crying for him. As he approached, I said hello but he didn't reply. Maybe he didn't hear me, I don't know. I used not to say anything to him but as I said a few months ago, I have decided to be polite and courteous towards him, whether he replies or not. The boys were so excited to see him. I had a baby carrier and S2 in it, on me, and after I gave him the baby, I folded it and I was trying to put it in their luggage. I told him they are tired and he asked if they had slept and I told him S5 had not. I was calm and composed.

I was struggling to put all their stuff in the suitcase, and to close the suitcase as the zip was slightly jammed. H kneeled to help me but then then he told me off to just leave it the way it was. I was tired but it would have been ridiculous to leave the luggage half open!!!! It's a valuable baby carrier and I didn't want anything to fall off. He seemed in a hurry to take off as usual. I decided to open the suitcase and rearrange the carrier in there and the whole thing took less than one minute. But he was like, yeah, the car isn't far, I will just take it like that. Meanwhile he was holding the baby, and S5 and the suitcase and I don't know how he could have done so with a half open suitcase. So I just said, "can you please let me breathe?" He went quiet, and I put everything together calmly, closed the luggage and put it on the cart nicely. I gave a hug to S5, told him I will call the next day. S2 refused to come to me but I gave him a kiss and after that they left. I was so sad and overwhelmed and tired and grumpy after a long flight and I felt like I just couldn't go on raising children with a man who couldn't have enough heart to see that I was tired and just trying to make sure all is well before I leave my kids. He hesitated before they left, seemed like he wanted to say something to me but then left. No thank you, no merry Christmas, no nothing. He did not speak to me a single kind word after I brought him the boys. Instead, all that came to his mouth was to chase me off as fast as he could.

I stood there after they were gone, wondered really if I will one day make sense of all of this. If I will be able to put a name to what is going on between us. I felt tears coming, but it was the wrong place. I sad down at a cafe, wrote to my best friend about what had just gone on. She reminded me what you would all say if I had posted on here, she said, it's almost over, next time you see him he will be giving you the kids back. I felt better, had a G&T and a slice of pizza, waited for the bus to take me to a friend where I am staying until my flight to the US tomorrow. I was drained and confused but I am not hopeless. I know there are people who agree with me that there is something off with this man and I just hope that whatever it is, I am stronger than "it".

My friend and I had a wonderful evening at home, we forgot to eat and just talked. It is good to be in that zone. Then when I went to bed, I checked my emails and what did I find? My H's email, this time asking this "Hello Lioness, When would you like to Skype with the boys?"! I mean, the man wouldn't let me off the hook EVEN when he has the boys! I had just arrived, I am exhausted, I told S5 I would be Skyping, I had told H in my pre-trip email that I would be emailing him to let him know when I can skype, I had not disappeared off the surface of the earth, the kids are not leaving to be in a jungle with no internet, why oh why wouldn't this man let me catch my breath first??????

Online Mortesbride

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2017, 02:19:48 PM »
One word..

''Control''

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2017, 02:44:24 PM »
Oh, Lioness, there's a lot off with this man!  Rushing off with your/his kids after a trans-Atlantic flight through several time zones and not even greeting you or saying good-bye or thanking you for bringing over the boys?  Why are many MLCers so rude to their spouses?

When reading about your arrival in Canada, I was reminded of how H started to treat me in the year before BD1.  When we relocated to Germany, H found a job in another city and we saw each other only on the weekends.  D9 was a preschooler at that time and since my work was part-time only, it was usually D and I traveling the 5 1/2 hours on trains to see H since we could often already leave on Thursday instead of Friday.  It wasn't easy to travel for so many hours with a preschooler, D would want to move around a lot and be entertained.   In H's city, we would take the tram from the train station and H would meet us at his tram stop.  He would greet D exuberantly, utter an impersonal sounding "ah, hi" in my direction and walked ahead with D.  I would follow, pulling the suitcase, feeling like I was D's nanny.  I talked to H a couple of times about how this made me feel and was surprised that we had such a conversation in the first place.

There is this ignoring behavior on the one hand and, on the other, this trying to stay in touch/pull you in that I do see in my H as well. Crazy...

Hugs to you, and wishing you a very good stay in the US!
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 05:59:14 PM »
One word..

''Control''

I am afraid you are right Mortes. The question is, why??? The man has no love for me, or any other interest so why the need to control me??? 🙄 I know why MLC duh!

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2017, 06:59:35 PM »
Lioness,

I am in awe of your strength and togetherness getting two young children and luggage successfully across an ocean and through two airports!   :o 

I am so sorry that your MLCer is so far out in the stratosphere.  I think you dealt well with the craziness of it. 

I hope that your flight to the US goes smoothly and that you'll have a chance to post so that we know you're safely ensconced with dear friends.  Sending support. 
After all, tomorrow is another day.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2017, 07:55:03 PM »
Treasur:

Many ill spouses on this site consented to see marriage counselors (MC) or therapists (IC), or were hospitalized under psychiatric order.

So do not tell me to refrain from suggesting LBS take their sick spouses to a neurologist when many of them are already under care, some for a couple years with no improvement.

What do any of you have to lose?

bvFTD

Offline Velika

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2017, 10:04:43 PM »
Please, bv. I know this is an important issue for you but asking LBS - who can't even get their spouse to return a phone call or see children - to 'take' their spouse anywhere for a medical investigation is impracticable and almost unkind in some situations.

Lioness - sending you a big hug and hoping you get to recharge your batteries over the next few days.

Treasur, I actually think that seen within a certain framework she is making a good suggestion.

Many of us are so traumatized and pummeled by bomb drop (and I put myself in this category) that even though we "know" on some level our spouse is unwell, we struggle with our own perceptions, which we feel we can no longer trust.

I think there actually is a window for some LBS in the early stages to protect themselves and their children with some attempt at medical diagnosis. However, in order to do this, the LBS must step way, WAY back and see this situation for what it is, at their most raw moments, and take control in an empowered way.

It is an almost Herculean task, but if the LBS feels strongly that a medical event may have occurred (and especially if bomb drop coincided with another medical change and there is a family history), there may be some steps he or she can take to increase the likelihood that their spouse may receive help. This could include asking to see a marriage counselor who is also a psychiatrist; finding a lawyer who has experience in divorces that possibly involve mental illness; reporting personality and behavior changes to family in friends with support/feedback of medical professionals.

I feel in my case there was a window to at least protect my son. I think if I had pursued a private investigator to look up OW I would have discovered she was a former prostitute. This in turn may have convinced some of my former spouse's family to listen to me that something was wrong with him and allowed me to be more strategic legally.

Also to add, some people with more wallowing types have a spouse who seems somewhat aware that something is wrong. There may be some windows to seek help in an informed way, especially if the LBS is aware of the symptoms of other, similar conditions.

I think often on this forum we are talking about a "cure" and what can be done to strategically protect ourselves. Any of these moves are unlikely to stop MLC behavior unless there is a specific diagnosis with a treatment. This is in fact true with bvFTD's husband, who does not accept his diagnosis. However, the diagnosis helped bvFTD to protect herself and her children in a smart, informed, compassionate, and empowered way.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2017, 10:25:09 PM »
Journaling:

Well I may have just been BD'd again friends! After what I thought was a wonderful day with my friends and a really nice skype chat with the boys, I just received an email from H saying : "I wanted to let you know that I met someone and that the boys will have an opportunity to meet her during the course of the Holiday. I wanted to let you know first before S5 or anyone else brings it up. Safe travels and let me know when you will next be available for Skype with the boys."

I don't know what and how to feel about this.

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:32 PM »
Treasur:

Many ill spouses on this site consented to see marriage counselors (MC) or therapists (IC), or were hospitalized under psychiatric order.

So do not tell me to refrain from suggesting LBS take their sick spouses to a neurologist when many of them are already under care, some for a couple years with no improvement.

What do any of you have to lose?

bvFTD

Velika/bv

I understand your points, but I think it matters to be sensitive too to the reality of individual situations before making some suggestions. Perhaps save this kind of advice for those kind of situations rather than adding something impossible or another thing to 'worry' about would be more respectful is all I'm thinking.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2017, 11:11:34 PM »
Journaling:

Well I may have just been BD'd again friends! After what I thought was a wonderful day with my friends and a really nice skype chat with the boys, I just received an email from H saying : "I wanted to let you know that I met someone and that the boys will have an opportunity to meet her during the course of the Holiday. I wanted to let you know first before S5 or anyone else brings it up. Safe travels and let me know when you will next be available for Skype with the boys."

I don't know what and how to feel about this.

Well, I guess the first thing is that your H is a coward and a manipulator, right? Very MLC, I'm afraid. I'm sorry - what a s$itty thing to do and a s$itty bit of timing, Lioness. MLCers only think of themselves and what they want...but by communicating it like this, a bit of him knows it's a s$itty inappropriate thing to do.

Whatever you think or feel right now, try to breathe and not react emotionally...this is about your boys not how much of a p***k your H is. Other folks here with small children will advise you better...my small comfort is that your boys are so little that 'Daddy's friends' won't register much compared to presents, Santa and the festive sugar rush.

Only you know how you feel about it. Did you suspect before now? In terms of what you think...most MLC spouses have affairs, it is part of running away and self-medication. Your thinking, I guess, will be focused on your boys. You've been side-swiped here and I guess you might want to think about future boundaries and any legal/custody issues.Do you need to take L advice in a phone call if you're concerned?

Sending you the biggest hug in my hug bucket xxx
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2017, 12:24:34 AM »
So it is 3 am and I am up, I cannot sleep. My mind is racing and my thoughts are everywhere! I cry, then I feelstrong, then I feel like I should have seen this coming and prepared for it. I have just tried to call H and beg him not to introduce the boys to OW until I am ready to help them through it. It is late and he did not pick up of course so in a way maybe that is a good thing.

Legally, you can't stop someone from introducing his children to a new partner. And I do not want to sound desperate even if that is what I feel. I don't know if I am hurt by the way he treats me, by the fact that he cannot muster the courage to let this marriage end first, or that he drags my kids into this craziness too. I don't know what I am supposed to feel.

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2017, 01:13:45 AM »
If you can, try to emotionally detach from the situation.  What hurts you most about it?  That there is an OW on the scene or that she may form some relationship with your boys?

This announcement may very well be just another of your H's attempts to get a reaction from you.  Since it is out of your control to keep him from introducing your kids to his new friend, I would not discuss it with him at all and try to not give it much thought.

In the big picture, legally, you have all trumps in your hand:  You have full custody of your children.  You will shape their views and behavior so much more than your H will.  Also, if their dad wants to include another person (who has opinions and needs) in the little and precious time that he is able to have his kids, it will only backfire on him.  His connection with the boys is already hard to maintain as it is -- having another person in tow will not help.

In addition, we do know how MLCer relationships look.  They are not capable of being a loving, stable partner.  We wouldn't want them anyways in their current state!  And: If he were sane and happy in his new relationship, why treat you the way he did at the airport?  Why no "thank you", no card in the UK?
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2017, 01:39:11 AM »
Lioness - DO NOT CALL HIM
because
a) it gives him power to not pick up and will make you feel frustrated and helpless
b) there is nothing you can do to control or change it right now, and if he does pick up, he won't care and he won't do what he says
c) you need time to feel, then get to the thinking bit so whatever you do or don't do is from your head, your strong places and your boys

Legally - you have full custody right? No concern that he will try to keep them? Do you have anything in the agreement about who your sons can be introduced to or not? And what do your sons understand about your M? If you want to do anything at all, I would suggest a short email cc to your L that says you are disappointed that he is doing this without a prior conversation with you and it raises concerns in your mind about his commitment to future healthy co-parenting in your sons' best interests.

And then , Lioness...without hurting your boys...I would go as cold and dim on Mr A$$hat as you can and think about what new boundaries you will put in place when you are back with your boys in the UK.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2017, 01:58:36 AM »
Lioness,

I am sorry. My h. did a similar thing, my kids were much older (18,17 and 16) In fact when he wrote the e-mail, my children had already been introduced to her. I think he wrote it because he knew it would get back to me sooner or later. :(

You are right, there is probably nothing you can do to prevent him from introducing them to her - from my experience, the ow tried her hardest to forge a relationship with my kids and for a while it seemed that it worked - she gave gifts, she offered to take my d. to a hairdresser friend of hers, she tried to strike up conversations with each kid according to their interests/hobbies - it was painful to watch.

Now, at seven years post BD and almost seven that they have been subjected to her presence in their father's life, they have precious little to do with her, there are no bonds formed at all. They will often go months on end without seeing or speaking to her. They have asked their father to spend time with them, without her and her kids and for the most part, he has complied.

I realize that with smaller kids, like yours, it is more complicated, however, you have full custody and they will not be spending too much time with her. I would just pray that she treats them well.

Hang in there, Lioness - you are strong, you will prevail! Here in Brazil, the English expression 'Mother Bear' is translated into 'Lioness'  ;D   So, I have no doubt you are in the winning spot here!!
M 56
H 56
S 25
S 24
D 22
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2017, 01:59:40 AM »
Thank you Puzzled and Treasur for talking me down the ledge!! Well it is 4:45am and I have not closed my eyes one second. But I did not call him again. And since I used some internet phone thing, he doesn't know it is me calling.

Treasur - yes I have full custody of the boys, a British court order stipulating that the boys live with me  and are lawful residents of England and Wales. So there is no chance in hell that he can keep them and attempt to form some "family" with this OW. I could write what you are suggesting just as a way to put things on record but I feel like even that is giving him something of mine, a little bit of power from me to him. I might keep that reference though to "concerns about his commitment to healthy co-parenting" in my folders somewhere because I feel like I will need it at some point soon 🙄.

And yes tighter boundaries - they are coming!

Puzzled - I think I am hurt that he has another woman, that he feels the need to keep discarding me. I am not at all threatened by a potential relationship with the kids, first they are too young and second they don't live near by. Also, well, they are my kids, whether or not they choose to like her, they aren't hers.

I feel confused by all this, the timing of this announcement, his recent trip to the U.K., his behaviour there, the death of his bio dad two weeks ago, it just seems all over the place! I don't know how he is able to handle all of this and keep a job and be there for the boys. So in a way in my head I think maybe this OW is just another thing to get me to react because he clearly needs to maintain some rope between us, even if a very negative one!

I have a flight to catch in a couple of hours and even if I am deflated about my trip now, my friends are all excited to see me and they are throwing a party for me and i am still going to try and enjoy this time and before I know it the boys and i will be back in the safety of our home in England.

Online Mortesbride

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2017, 02:11:15 AM »
Well I have kids your age. (7, 5, 2) And realistically he can introduce them...but they won't see her as anything more than a stranger really. I think they are only there for what... 2 weeks? So again..they will forget having even met her most likely.

I think his play here...is more to stab you in the heart and sabotage your holidays. He was ignoring you at the airport as punishment for something (being late off the plane...wearing a green sweater....his own guilt about OW). Mine does passive aggressive crap like that...even a little before MLC.

The skype thing is because he doesn't believe your story...he is using your skyping to the boys to check in on you. (Control)

Now he has emailed about other woman so whatever plans you have made..he now knows you will be to busy obsessing and hurting over OW to enjoy yourself (you know in case you came all the way over here for a new man or whatever  ::) ).

Treasur's point about concerns to co-parenting is brilliant. I would absolutely do that. You may never need it...but you may be glad to have it.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2017, 02:32:06 AM »
Oh Mitzpah, how reassuring to read your experience! It is always good to realize that no matter how awful you think your particular circumstances are, there is always someone out there who has gone through the same thing. It doesn't make it any easier but one feels less alone! Thank you for sharing with me.

Quote
I realize that with smaller kids, like yours, it is more complicated, however, you have full custody and they will not be spending too much time with her. I would just pray that she treats them well.
Hang in there, Lioness - you are strong, you will prevail! Here in Brazil, the English expression 'Mother Bear' is translated into 'Lioness'  ;D   So, I have no doubt you are in the winning spot here!!

For now I feel like whoever this OW is, she hasn't been around much. And I will keep an eye on the boys and likely ask the lawyer to draft a letter on the care of the kids when they aren't with me if necessary. But all that will come in time. I pray that this woman is a good presence in my kids life. Though I doubt my h is able to choose someone good at the moment.
Thanks for the Mother Bear reference, made me smile! ❤️ ❤️

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2017, 03:09:59 AM »
I could write what you are suggesting just as a way to put things on record but I feel like even that is giving him something of mine, a little bit of power from me to him.
This x 1000...your instincts are spot on. He wants power, control, drama and significance...give him nothing back in your reaction that feeds it.

I feel confused by all this, the timing of this announcement, his recent trip to the U.K., his behaviour there, the death of his bio dad two weeks ago, it just seems all over the place!
This x1000 too...bats$it crazy...you stay on the sane bit of the sidewalk!

I have a flight to catch in a couple of hours and even if I am deflated about my trip now, my friends are all excited to see me and they are throwing a party for me and i am still going to try and enjoy this time and before I know it the boys and i will be back in the safety of our home in England.
Fab PMA...enjoy the love and support of your friends...and silently plotting how life is going to get uncomfortable for H with some new 2018 boundaries!
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2017, 04:32:23 AM »
Journaling:

I am sitting at the airport and I am realizing that a) I have not slept a single minute last night, b) this feels like another BD - a mini one but a BD nonetheless, with all the heartache, the confusion, the self-blame all over again, the "is there something I could have done better", etc. I am tired, I haven't been able to drink even a sip of coffee (when I am sad or anxious my stomach doesn't actually feel hunger, and I just feel heartbroken.

It's not like the news of the existence of an OW is a great surprise. Not all. I knew it would happen one day so here it is. On the one hand, I am not sure what to make of it: I mean, I have been really good at processing all this $h!te since BD and I am still not ready to be in any relationship, let alone introduce my kids to a potential special friend. How on earth is my H already there? How on earth is anyone who wants a relationship with him think this man is solid hubby material? On the other, I am like ok, maybe he has met a lovely woman who loves him and give him all I was never able to give him.

My lovely friend where I was staying last night and I had a long chat about all of this stupid MLC and she said what you all have been telling me over the last couple of weeks. Now I know why I was particularly anxious this season - I could feel, even so subconsciously, that something else was coming. My intuition usually does not lie. He was acting all shady and strange and my heart was all unsettled by his behaviour. Here we have it now.

When my head is in the right space, I know that whatever this relationship, it has little bearing over my life, at least not in the immediate. He is still married and from the look of things he does not look like he is speeding things up to get the damn divorce done and over with. He does not look like he wants to get the pension and child maintenance all sorted and done with faster - or maybe now that he does not have to hide the relationship he will speed things up. Either way, on the non-emotional side, I am done and I know I don't want a man like the one he is and seems to have become. I would rather die alone.

On the emotional side of things, I am not sure how I feel: I am hurt because I feel that officializing this liaison and introducing the boys somehow gives him the legitimacy he needs to continue acting like he didn't blow our life into small pieces. I feel like he is discarding me even more, and it hurts as I also realize that he won't be helping me with the boys. On the other hand, I feel like it might not be such a bad thing since maybe him being with another woman might keep him away from us a bit and give us a room to breathe me and the boys. But then I feel like emotionally, I am the quintessential big fat loser, slightly still pinning for a man who couldn't give a rat's ass about her! How pathetic is it that my self esteem is so little that I would still spend so much time thinking about a man who couldn't care less about me?

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2017, 05:42:02 AM »
Oh, Lioness - the stuff is all so confusing isn't it? Both the weird thing they become and all the contradictory emotions we have too. And of course it feels like a mini-BD...it is just one more WTF wet fish in the face. I felt exactly the same in June when I found out about his secret OW domestics, even though I knew someone was in the mix.

And you're tired so you feel a bit sub-par too.I lost 4st in 3 months because stress goes to my stomach too.You are sounding remarkably sane and balanced...eat something small, get a bit of sleep too.

Just going to rehash MLC 101 for you (and me):

1. How out of character is this stuff for the H you knew before BD?

2. There is NOTHING you could have done to stop his crisis

3. It is HIS crisis and it was never about you...remind yourself of the bonkers things he's done as a man and parent that have nothing to do with you or your actions.

4. The 'I'm not ready, how can they be' question....we are sane, healthy adults who choose not to use other human beings as feel-good medicine; for MLC spouses it's a compulsion and an escape not a healthy connection with another person.

5. MLC spouses lie to everyone, including OW. And a lot of OW are not the brightest or most healthy kids on the block either. At best, he's conning her. Most likely, it is a 'come and join my party of the disordered...bring a bottle and your own s$it'!

6. Yup, you have good instincts...and if you can stay detached enough, your intuition will often tell you what logic doesn't.

7. Little short-term practical impact on your situation as it is now, you're right...and no point wasting energy on 'what ifs'. I don't know what "I'm done" means to you. Probably you don't yet either. Let it sit and muse on things like boundaries, money and divorce but don't feel the need to jump into action either way.

8. MLCers fake their own legitimacy - based on 'me, me' and lies - if they didn't, they couldn't look at their face in the mirror. And if he doesn't act as if he sees the reality or impact of his behaviour, a harem of perfect OW makes no difference.

9. How much is he helping with the boys right now anyway? MLC spouses are usually crap unreliable parents or like having an extra dysfunctional teenager with bad table habits.

10. You have lost your H and that is a loss to be mourned. MLC H, by contrast, is no prize at all but a surly, power-freak, lying, cheating man-child who has run away from his family. You are pining for your H while having to protect you and your boys from MLC A$$hat...not an easy balance for any of us. You are not a big fat loser...your MLC H is though. You are a strong Mother Bear fighting for your boys, protecting yourself and deciding what to do about a H who has lost the plot and blown up your family. Nothing pathetic about her at all.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2017, 06:22:24 AM »
Treasur:

You called me unkind and disrespectful toward LBS simply because I suggested they try to get their spouses to see a doctor. Okay.

"Detaching" or stepping away from the MLCer is all well and good, but AFTER LBS take care of very important business, such as making a doctor's appt. for their spouse; safeguarding bank accounts and credit scores; calling financial advisor in case spouse decides to ransack retirement accounts; divorcing immediately, hiring a PI to investigate spouse's "new friends," particularly when MLCer wants custody, and telling friends and family of sick spouse what he is really up to. Now is not the time to be stoic and watch the train wreck.

Some LBS have lost it all because of their understandable paralysis and futile attempts to understand why their spouse suddenly turned cruel and callous, but if you have PROOF of spouse's destructive and crazy behavior, LBS and their children will fare much better in court than ill spouse who can "mask" their sickness, infuriatingly leading others to conclude that WE are the unbalanced and overly emotional party in denial.

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2017, 06:35:56 AM »
Treasur:

You called me unkind and disrespectful toward LBS simply because I suggested they try to get their spouses to see a doctor. Okay.

"Detaching" or stepping away from the MLCer is all well and good, but AFTER LBS take care of very important business, such as making a doctor's appt. for their spouse; safeguarding bank accounts and credit scores; calling financial advisor in case spouse decides to ransack retirement accounts; divorcing immediately, hiring a PI to investigate spouse's "new friends," particularly when MLCer wants custody, and telling friends and family of sick spouse what he is really up to. Now is not the time to be stoic and watch the train wreck.

Some LBS have lost it all because of their understandable paralysis and futile attempts to understand why their spouse suddenly turned cruel and callous, but if you have PROOF of spouse's destructive and crazy behavior, LBS and their children will fare much better in court than ill spouse who can "mask" their sickness, infuriatingly leading others to conclude that WE are the unbalanced and overly emotional party in denial.

BV - this is my last comment on this issue, particularly on Lioness's thread. You may absolutely be right that there are times when getting this diagnosis could help. I am absolutely not calling you unkind or insensitive; I think you are just trying to help people understand a factor which you know more about than many of us. I'm just suggesting that it is not so helpful to advise it for any LBS thread whose current situation means they have ZERO legal power and ZERO influence over their spouse's medical consultations. And particularly if their pressing priorities are less about their spouse's health or health in the context of a legal process, and more about other issues.

It is difficult for all of us to remember the specifics of individual stories, I know, but sometimes while we mean to help and support, we might inadvertently give people advice they can't use or makes them feel bad because it doesn't fit their situation. I've worried that I've done that sometimes when I'm seeing things through my own emotions about my own situation.

I am sorry if what I said hurt or offended you. That was not at all my intention and I will refrain from commenting further on the issue so as to avoid doing so again. My apologies. And to you, Lioness, for momentarily hijacking your thread. :)
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Thunder

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2017, 07:45:33 AM »
Lioness,

I love the rehash of MLC 101 that Treasur put out there.  Good stuff to remember.

Also I agree with the others, he will not have the kids for that long, so not much harm can be done.
Just put him out of your head for now and enjoy your trip!  Enjoy your friends!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:48:34 AM by Thunder »
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2017, 10:12:05 AM »
bvFTD, I don't know if you have read my story from the beginning but I really mean it when I say that I have very limited powers over what my H can and cannot do. Just to recap for you, after he BD'd me 18 months ago now, I managed to get a legal permission from him to move with the kids to the UK. I can see that there are so many things that are wrong with him but even when we were dealing with the courts over custody, I could not find any ways to raise any concerns over his mental capabilities. A) I am a very educated woman, and I know that the best best way to look crazy is to accuse an ex spouse of being one. It doesn't matter what words you use or who you tell, it's a slippery slope and sometimes grief mixes with factual errors and you just look like you just don't accept that your spouse has fallen out of love with you.
B) I don't know what country you live in but I know in Canada and in Europe, you cannot technically make anyone go to the doctor, let alone a neuro-psychologists or psychiatrist. As far as I know, these are specialists who can only be seen after referral. It is a tiring process and for most people just an impossible fight, especially if one is also looking after children.
C) In the event that one does actually find out that their spouse has a neurological impairment, fighting them in court on that basis is the hardest thing. In most countries, mental illness does not qualify for losing custody of one's children. It's really really hard to lose one's children's custody. Often judges will order therapy after therapy but still maintain contact between parents and children, unless of course there is clear abuse.
D) For having gone through the Courts in the days after BD, I can say that it is very different from trying to get your former spouse to seek help.

I understand that you really want to help but honestly I don't know how one can force a spouse to seek help - unlike protecting one's children or financials of the house, which you don't need his permission or cooperation to do, getting your former spouse to seek psychiatric evaluation actually supposes that either they agree to cooperate with you (which was not my case and certainly does not seem to be the case with many MLCers around here) or that they have gone truly bonkers and dysfunctional that the police or anyother social worker would take them to seek help. Which, again, is not the case often here. So I really, truly don't see how one can get their spouse psychiatric help UNLESS THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. As LBSes here, most of us are trying to find a little bit of safe and firm ground after major trauma, so, how on earth can one find the strenght to do that AND still find ways to get their spouses who want nothing to do with them to cooperate.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I have seen you post this same thing over and over on many threads and it always felt like beyond the need to be right, you really don't see or try to see the hard places we find ourselves in. And it is unfortunate, because really, all we seek here first and foremost, is understanding, a hand to hold. Someone to hold space for us so we can breathe, before we can stand up and rise again. Most of us come here because we are strong, smart but heartbroken people. We seek understanding, we seek not to feel alone. We seek not to feel stupid, since our MLCers have done that number on us already. We are not responsible for what our ailments our spouses have, please stop making us (and I speak in plural here) that we need to fix or help fix it. While getting a diagnosis would probably help clear some of the dark clouds in our heads and hearts, it would not take away the pain and it certainly would not change the work we still have to do for ourselves: how to find our own paths in the middle of destruction and chaos. How to rise strong, for our selves and our children for those of us who have them.

At this point, pardon my anger, but what on earth does it really matter if my xH is suffering from some unknown neurological affliction? What does that change to my heartbreak, to the confusion and pain in my kids eyes, to the fact that I am still alone in raising two boys, with no money, no help, no nothing? What, on a very practical level, does that help me achieve? Ok, so I may be able to say, well, he is not an @$$hole, he is just sick - but my best friend whose dad is a chronic drunk and drug user knows her dad is sick, he even tries to get help some time, but she is still heartbroken and she is still afraid of a life without a good man, she is still mending the pieces every day.

I welcome all help, and I love knowing that there is a community of people who want to help me navigate the hardest time of my adult life, who care enough to listen to my confusions about divorce or no divorce, about my own self-esteem or not, about a crazy man who's driving me insane but for who I still have an emotional attachment. But you really aren't helping me bvFTD, you are just telling me to add another responsibility to my long list of things to do, you are telling me that if I was strong or wise enough I would seek help for my H, you are telling me that I got it wrong and that I have power over a man who my hearts of hearts know I don't have any, you are confusing me, you are hurting me by not seeing that I am a victim of circumstances way beyond my control, you are, by telling me and others over and over about how we need to take our spouses to see special doctors, telling us it is our responsibility to fix what is broken in our lives. And that, my dear bvFTD is insensitive at best, cruel at worst. Perhaps others are ok listening to that option on their threads, but I am not ok doing so.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2017, 10:53:43 AM »
Continuing to journal my pain away....

I am posting this from my flight to California. This whole internet during flight is amazing, I am able to catch up with friends, email and post here. If you probably cannot tell, my brain is still monkeying itself since last night's revelation. I briefly slept in the plane and had a tea and some crackers (plane food is sooooo ridiculously expensive!). I am still tired and a bit in shock but I can tell that this cycle will not last too long unless I allow it. So i will talk about it today, I will journal all about it today but tomorrow will be another, new day.

Still processing everything - I was so sad in the airport this morning, many times I felt tears coming down my cheeks as I walked to my gate. I was slightly getting used to the idea that I have now been officially replaced as the official partner, spouse, whatever you call it. There was a new girl in a town and it isn't me. I could picture them strolling down the streets with my kids there, laughing and being happy and holding hands. I don't remember the last time H held my hand. I don't remember the last time we had a laugh. They would act like it is a normal relationship, she will think he is a decent man who was simply married to the wrong wife and has now found the perfect match. Perhaps even his ED and other issues he had in the bedroom have been suddenly fixed by the new magic woman, and he is now all happy and functional. Perhaps it is really about me, and if only I could disappear and leave the boys with him, my H would be happy. His universe equilibrium would be restored. His parents would meet her, they will think she is much better than me. They will say he deserves happiness. Everything will look like I really was never there, like I was never meant to be there in the first place.
I wonder if she is black like me or if she is white. I don't know why I care. I will wait until S5 tells me. I wonder if she is smart and witty and funny like me or if she is more like him, reserved, discreet, put-together.

To his email announcing that he has met someone, I replied this :"Thanks for letting me know. Merry Christmas to you all". You would think that a normal person would see that as a sign that I have no intention to continue exchanging further on this but of course he had to have the last word and emailed me back a "Merry Christmas to you as well"! Why doesn't he just leave me alone and go and be with this new love and just let me be? I mean, come on!

Offline Velika

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2017, 12:42:32 PM »
Lioness, I think you are getting some great advice here!

Perhaps because I have had some additional contact with bv, I want to say I don't think she is trying to make anyone feel bad with her suggestions. She has said before, she was able to get her husband to a doctor, and he received a diagnosis, but he did not accept it and doesn't return to the doctor. She herself has experienced this firsthand and knows how hard it is!

I think many times this is just advice we can put in our back pocket or use if we are helping another, maybe more recent LBS who can learn from our experience. bv acted more swiftly than other LBS on this forum to protect herself, and this diagnosis (elusive as it may be) helped her.

So now we know, there are other disease and syndrome that can resemble MLC. Is it our job to cure our former spouse? No. Can we protect ourselves with some additional knowledge? Perhaps, yes! Even if we all knew 100 percent our spouses were diagnosed bipolar, we would face an uphill battle, but this diagnosis could help insulate ourselves emotionally.

So many LBS, even ones I know who have truly off-the-charts insane MLCers, will cycle into a space of doubting themselves, their value, etc. Hearing an assertive viewpoint of bvFTD and some other, more forceful or "renegade" LBS can help us gather courage in some moments and galvanize us to protect ourselves, our emotions, our children.

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2017, 01:02:19 PM »
My dear Lioness,

Please don't toture yourself with all these awful scenario's.

You have no idea how happy your H is with this ow and you know nothing about her or if people wiill accept her or not.
I highly doubt people will find them as the perfect couple.
You're most likely looking at 2 very broken people who found each other.

That is nothing to envy.

I hope you can relax and enjoy your trip.   :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 05:26:44 PM by Thunder »
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2017, 01:06:33 PM »
Velika, I believe bvFTD means well. The issue for me is the inability or refusal to read the "room" and decided if the information is worth sharing at that particularly vulnerable moment of someone's life. I mean, she and everyone else knows that my H does not speak with me, does not live in the same country and I was here crying about the recent news. I don't meant to say that everyone who comments on the thread should agree with me but at the very least there is a level of sensitivity that just has got to be there if one intends to behave in a decent manner. How does the idea, once again raised for the xxxxth time on my thread, that I take my H to seek neuropsychiatric assistance fit in with the rest of my posts? I mean either bvFTD really reads our posts and wants to comment and help, or she is just repeating the same stuff over and over again with very little consideration for the particularities of our lives. And that is what I do not like about her comments, this way she has to present this medical testing etc as the ultimate advice to all of us. It has got to take into account what we are already saying, what we are already going through. Otherwise, and I am not saying this lightly but I stand behind my words, it just looks like she is trolling people V. It just does. It has got to stop. I am sorry.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2017, 01:17:39 PM »
My dear Lioness,

Please don't toture yourself with all these awful scenario's.

You have no idea how happy your H is with this ow and you know nothing about her or if people wiill accept her or not.
I highly doubt people will find them as the perfect couple.
You're most likely looking at 2 very broken people who found each other.

That is nothging to envy.

I hope you can relax and enjoy your trip.   :)

Thank you Thunder. In a way i am so glad this happened while I had this flight planned. It put me in a space (literally) where I had to go through all sorts of emotions in a short period of time. That I was not home alone or anywhere where I would have simply run to hide in my bed is a good thing. I land in less than two hours and I can feel the initial shocking factor has started to wear off. I will compose myself and I will eat and rest tonight. The friends I am going to see are really more than friends, they are two women who love me like they are my mothers. In fact they call me their daughter and I call them my moms. They are the ones who look out for me, who help me with the legal fees, and who truly would do anything for me. So I know that I will be in good hands. It will be good to be cared for. I have not seen them in two years so this is going to be good. I won't let H and his broken soul ruin it for me.

Thank you all for helping me get through the day today - I believe I have demonstrated how at least three if not four stages of grief work in a record time. I feel exhausted and drained but I also feel hopeful, I know this is just a bump in the road. I will keep choosing to believe that I am loved, if not by H but by other people who choose to be in my corner. And thank you for reminding me that I got my babies! I tend to forget that no matter what he does, he will never have them. And that is a significant loss!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 01:45:59 PM by Lioness »

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2017, 01:27:31 PM »
Let yourself be mothered a bit, Lioness - perfect medicine x
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Thunder

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2017, 06:15:42 PM »
"I mean either bvFTD really reads our posts and wants to comment and help, or she is just repeating the same stuff over and over again with very little consideration for the particularities of our lives. And that is what I do not like about her comments, this way she has to present this medical testing etc as the ultimate advice to all of us. It has got to take into account what we are already saying, what we are already going through. Otherwise, and I am not saying this lightly but I stand behind my words, it just looks like she is trolling people V. It just does. It has got to stop. I am sorry."

I agree with you 100% Lioness..she is trolling vulnerable people and it needs to STOP.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2017, 07:21:33 PM »
Lioness:

You can direct your anger at me all you want. I can take it. If you feel you are powerless to get your husband to see a doctor, LBS can still protect themselves and their family by moving quickly to call banks and credit card companies to close joint accounts; call financial advisor to warn them that their spouse may decide to drain retirement accounts; to have a PI check out "new friends" should the ill spouse insist on custody; to tell others of the inexplicable and sudden marital breakdown; and most of all, to reassure your children that their observations and perceptions that their dad "looks like Dad, smells like Dad, but isn't Dad," "Dad changed two years ago," "I think Dad is insane," "Dad is in a pit and needs to be pulled out of it," etc., are correct.

bv


Offline bvFTD

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2017, 07:41:06 PM »
I read your posts. I feel your heartbreak. I've read the threads on this site going back to the first page,  but haven't read all the LBS previous threads. I am so sorry if you feel I can't read a room, but that is not my intention right now. I am trying to save LBS from economic ruin and their children from doubting they grew up in a loving and beautiful family with parents who adored each other.

Anyway, take care, Lioness. I will leave your thread. I never meant to upset you.

Sincerely,

bv


Offline Velika

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2017, 07:42:54 AM »
bv isn’t trolling. Try not to forget she has been through what we have. 💛

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2017, 05:54:18 PM »
Journaling

I landed in California yesterday, after what seemed like the saddest trip I have ever made. I was tired, sad about H's recent OW developments, missing my boys, everything. My lovely friends had prepared a room for me, a suite really, so I can rest and sleep. I told them about H's latest and they both agreed it seems as though he "has had some sort of a breakdown" and now "enjoys tormenting" me. I was so tired and really couldn't have a long chat, but it was nice to be reminded that I am among people who've got my back. Because they really do. I am so incredibly lucky because even if I don't technically have parents or siblings, I have, over the last 25 years, made friends who have meant the world, who have held me together. It's a blessing I am ever so grateful for.

I am also tired. Exhausted. Physically, emotionally, in every way. These last three months in particular, with S5 starting primary school, with my own work which is going really slow, with S2 having the occasional toddler sniffles, it's been real hard. And when you add my H, the emotional toll he has taken on me,  the isolation which comes with being a single mom in a highly prestigious and competitive university, the financial worries that just never seem to settle, I am really, seriously tired. Today I spent a whole day in bed. Not worrying, just being there. It seems I have developed weird cold symptoms and my voice is almost gone because of the cough. I have always been the kind of person who, when the stress is high, simply develops physical symptoms as a result. So I know this is related to the stress and the fatigue of the last God knows how long.

Strangely enough, today I didn't think too much about H or the mysterious OW. I am not cycling as I did yesterday. I Skyped with the boys earlier and it was not really too bad: they seemed happy and playful, they are of course with the grand parents at their house (you would think that after putting me through such hardship with the court he would actually have a real home for the kids to go to but no, just like him, they are hanging out at his parents home). It reassures me though because I know they are at least well cared for, eat and sleep on time. His mother does the work, but I don't care since my kids are well and loved. S5 showed me the Christmas tree there but from what I could tell it seemed quiet around, H's sister's kid was not around as he must be spending time with his dad in another province. The call I had the day before H told me OW was in the picture, he sounded a bit hyper, and helping S5 to tell me about what he was playing with in the snow. This time, the mood seemed a bit on the low, and a couple times S5 asked him something and he sounded less excited! It's interesting all these things one can pick up even if virtually. S2 was also very chatty, we sang a song together. I am really finding that I connect well with the boys on Skype now and we can have a conversation. It makes me really happy, even if the sadness is still around down there, to see that they have come through the other side, that I have carried them through the most painful time of our family. I am in awe of their strength.

Once I figure out how to get rid of this weird cold, I plan on exploring a bit more and maybe going for a hike. But even if I don't, I just love that I was able to come here anyway. It's funny how it feels strange to let myself be pampered: they are bringing me soup in bed and I feel awkward about it. No one has done that for me in a loooong time. Did I forget how it feels to be loved?

Offline Anjae

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2017, 07:02:02 PM »
Lioness, I understand how you feel. Please try to rest. Not easy, I know, but you need to focus on yourself. Enjoy your time in California.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2017, 08:40:03 PM »
No matter how detached we feel we are, the revelation of the OW is a gut punch for sure. I even suspected my H was with his OW for over a year and still, when I got confirmation, it was just awful. I did all those things you did—imagining the happy couple, wondering what they were doing, picturing them out on the town. Yep I did it all. Still slip into it every so often. But, remember your H is very broken right now. The only person who will be with a broken person is another broken person. All those fantasy scenarios we imagine are just that. And I’m guessing Treasur and everyone else is dead on in that he is trying to mess with you. Intellectually we know the truth. But alas, out hearts still hurt. And feeling that hurt is the only way through. Only way to heal. I am so happy you are now in my home state  ;D with your friends who will pamper you. Huge hugs Lioness.
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2017, 10:54:11 PM »
Lioness, I understand how you feel. Please try to rest. Not easy, I know, but you need to focus on yourself. Enjoy your time in California.

Thank you Anjae.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2017, 10:59:33 PM »
No matter how detached we feel we are, the revelation of the OW is a gut punch for sure. I even suspected my H was with his OW for over a year and still, when I got confirmation, it was just awful. I did all those things you did—imagining the happy couple, wondering what they were doing, picturing them out on the town. Yep I did it all. Still slip into it every so often. But, remember your H is very broken right now. The only person who will be with a broken person is another broken person. All those fantasy scenarios we imagine are just that. And I’m guessing Treasur and everyone else is dead on in that he is trying to mess with you. Intellectually we know the truth. But alas, out hearts still hurt. And feeling that hurt is the only way through. Only way to heal. I am so happy you are now in my home state  ;D with your friends who will pamper you. Huge hugs Lioness.

Thanks KIT! There is something calming when you know the truth or have a sense of what is going on! It sent me spinning for a bit but I feel I am slowly getting my mojo back. I have no intention of letting this ruin my holidays.
I saw your latest update KIT, Very well done! If you can get through a whole dinner together it really is big! You inspire me!
I am loving being in Cali, and being loved! Merry Christmas my friend. May next year bring us more peace, better health and well, some resolutions to the crises.

Online Thunder

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2017, 06:08:31 AM »
Lioness, I'm so sorry you are going through this.  It was not only hurtful how your H treated you at the airport, but then he hit you with an OW.
That would have shaken up anyone.

I'm glad you get to talk to your kids and they seem happy.   :)

You'll be together again soon. 
How long are you staying?

With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2017, 07:04:06 AM »
Hi Thunder. Thank you for the kind words. I am in Cali until the 30th, and I see and pick up the boys on the 31st. It gives me great comfort to know that I will be snuggling my babies somewhere above the Atlantic when the new year begins.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #77 on: December 26, 2017, 10:37:16 PM »
Thinking of you, Lioness, and the recent travels and mini BD.  Sending you some (((HUGS))) and well wishes for rest and recovery.  I hope that you can get over your ailment quickly and enjoy the time you have with friends in Cali.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2018, 01:25:24 PM »
How are you doing, Lioness? Hope you and your boys are back home safe and sound now x
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2018, 12:47:49 PM »
Thank you so much Treasur and FW! And Happy new year! The boys and I are well and we are back in England safe and sound and I really need to post an update but we are still quite jet lagged! I will post more tomorrow. Thank you guys for checking in! Hope you are all doing well.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2018, 01:41:01 AM »
Journaling

It's about time that I update my thread, so many things have happened since my last whirlwind of a Christmas trip. Thank you all here for helping me go through that brief but painful mini BD again, when H announced that he had met someone and that this someone was going to meet my kids. It's crazy how much the human spirit can endure, I am happy to report that not only I recovered from the news, he added even more BS to it. Read on!

First the beautiful bit: I had a great time in California, connecting and reconnecting with people who truly love me and who'd move mountains to be there for me. Love really heals, no matter what form it comes in. The time I was there, I felt cared for, I was taken out to dinner, I went with a friend to Sonoma for a day trip, I went with another one of my friends for amazing authentic tacos (I am a sucker for those!) and I even met in person another LBS that I had met here on the forum. I missed the boys of course, but I really didn't have a lot of time to feel sad! It was a healing time and I am still feeling energized by that time. I had not had that much time to myself in a long time, so I was also able to think about my work and my own life plans - what's next after the PhD, do I stay in England or do I brace for another move (and an obvious fight with H and his control issues?), do I need a mentor and how do I go about it? Needless to say, it was good to have that time to breathe and catch up with myself. I slept too, oh it was great!

Now, the not so fun bits: My H has been, since the day he told me he met someone else, really annoying! I don't know what he wanted me to do or how he wanted me to react. The day after I landed in California, I received another email asking me when I wanted to skype with the kids. Now, if you remember, prior to the trip I had told him that I won't be seeing them but that i would be letting him know when i could call since i would be travelling. He did not know where I was traveling to. I saw the email when I was still jetlagged (flight from London to Montreal to Cali in just 15 hours can do that to you) and I didn't reply. The sensible thing on his part would have been to send an update on how the kids were doing with the jetlag and all, and maybe politely say to email when I am ready to skype. Besides, I had just seen the boys THE DAY before!!

I skyped with the kids the day after that email and then I went back to my quiet place. I again skyped with them on Christmas day. Then he emailed again the day after Christmas to ask when I want to skype. Keep in mind that I never emailed him first. I didn't understand why he wanted me to Skype so often, instead of sitting back and enjoying the time with them. I told him I would be skyping with them on Dec 29, and then just meet them at the airport on Dec 31st for the trip back. The day I was due to pick them up, I receive a random email telling me that he found that S5's winter boots don't fit him anymore and asking me if I wanted them back still! I said, sure, please pack them, S2 will use them later on. It sounded like one of those emails I receive from him that are incomplete but that eventually something else will come after them - almost like he wanted me to ask him more about them (like, did you buy him a new pair, could you buy him one etc). But I don't ask anything, or suggest that he provides anything so if he doesn't do something on his own I don't ask.

At the airport, he showed up and he was really strange. The cockiness I had seen the week before at drop off was gone, he looked tired and a bit grumpy. He had forgotten the kids' backpack in the car and texted to ask if he could bring me the kids and go back to get it. I suppose he was sad to see them leave but he also seemed in a hurry. I asked him to help me move all the suitcases (because you know he wouldn't offer in the first place as he was so rushed to get out there, and maybe he thought I was superwoman able to push two carts with one child in my arms and a 5 year old in tow, in a busy airport). I really don't know what happened to my h, he was the most helpful, galant man I know. He was rattled and rushed while he put the suitcases on the same cart (we had three) and as soon as he was done, he gave S5 a quick hug and left immediately. I don't remember if he said bye to S2 who was in my arms!

As soon as he left, S5 said, "mommy, F (HE CALLED HIS FATHER BY HIS NAME FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER) has a sweetheart and they sleep in the same bed at grandma's house". My heart sunk and my knees felt so weak I thought I was going to fall. I later realize, after talking with S5 more, that it was not an "introduction" to OW, she was there at his parents house the whole time (at least according to an account of a 5 year old), that the kids had their own room and he was sleeping in the other bed with her. They went to the movies with her and watched Star Wars, and she had bought him a fidget spinner or something of the sort. He even remembered her name and said she was at grand pa and grand ma's house when they'd left that afternoon and she had been the one dressing him for the trip and changing his brother's diaper. I was sad beyond measure. That this man was not only stupid and lost enough to bring another woman in my kids' life before we are divorced, at the very least, he did it during the first christmas ever alone with them. Ever!

Now if you remember, H told me two months or so ago that he was looking at how he can move to the UK next year. This woman is not the same as the one he cheated and BD'd me with. Clearly, this is a new relationship. Why on earth was so in a hurry to have her not only meet the boys but also play mommy with them? And why are his flying monkeys of parents accommodating such inappropriate behaviour in front of children? In many ways, what saddened me most was that this sent a message to S5 that he wasn't his dad's favorite anymore. That there was someone else in his dad's life with whom he preferes to be. He was heartbroken and he has been nursing that broken heart since we got back. The other day, he was playing with his brother and told him to pack his bag because they are moving to be with daddy at his house. Then he told him that his daddy probably would say no  :'( :'(

When I arrived home in England, and started unpacking the kids suitcase, I found an envelope with a stack of pictures that had been taken with the kids in them during that christmas. Guess what? He had felt that it was important to include a picture of the OW in there! You know? I saw it, cried a bit, tore it apart and threw it in the garbage where I think all of H's shenanigans really belong.  I debated so much writing to him to voice my opinion on all of the $h!te this Christmas,  and even spoke to my lawyer about this but in the end I decided to keep my mouth shut. All my friends, family and lawyer all agreed that it was provocation, that he wanted me to react, etc. I will not give him that satisfaction. Ever. Instead, I have even more tighter boundaries. I will update on what's been happening since in a few hours.

Offline Tyks

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2018, 02:52:38 AM »
Omg, just omg. Why oh why does he wanna inflict pain on you constantly? I will never ever understand this garbage!! The person that we loved and trusted most in the world should never be doing these awful things to us ... in fact, nobody should ever treat anybody like that!

I am so sorry, Lioness. What a BIG FAT JERK!

On the positve, I am glad that you were with your loved ones and were able to get a bit of self care in over the holidays.
Me 48
Him 48
22 years together - Married 20
BD1 - August 26, 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD 2 - August 28, 2016 - OW discovered EA - Kicked him out - currently separated
D15 D18

April 2017 - Legal Separation Agreement
August 2017 - I filed for divorce

Online Mortesbride

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2018, 03:49:32 AM »
Hats off to you Lioness.. you handled that 100 x better than I would.

Pretty sure he would be getting a mini nuke if it was me.  >:(

He is definitely trying to bait you. Checking up with you and annoying you to skype all the time does two things, he gets to see what you are doing, and he might let you get a glimpse of OW to make you jealous. He knew your son would talk about OW so that is why he scampered at the airport. And they even left pictures in your bag to hurt you and expecting you to react. Completely cruel mind games.

But honestly, well done for not reacting.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2018, 04:36:40 AM »
Thank you so much Tyks and Mortes. It was insane as I was jetlagged too so my heart was just breaking. But I figured pretty quickly what their mindfiretruckeries were about and I screamed in my pillow but didn't email or even change the tone when he emailed later on.

Continuing to Journal.

We landed in England on January 1st in the early morning. We were absolutely exhausted and the boys had not slept a lot on the plane, but I was so happy we were going to go back to our little daily routines. The boys were happy to find their stuff and toys and the familiarity of their home. We slept and ate and watched movies it was such a great bonding experience. I even let them come in my bed for most of it because they needed to find me back too after a week away. It was great.

Of course by the time we landed H had emailed ( :o :o :o) to let me know that he had not packed the boots (as I had suggested the day before I picked up the kids) because, he said "you will find that I bought S5 new boots" Bahahahahaha, daddy of the year is taking his job seriously and he wants to make sure I don't forget he is the man! Later in the evening of the day we landed, he emailed again to give me the schedule of when he wants to skype with the boys which happened to be every day of the week!!! OMG, isn't this man busy with his new shiny woman? Why won't he let us breathe? He had just seen the kids a mere 8 hours before!!

I gnored that email for the evening and the next day I told him that the kids are back at school and nursery each and that the times he wants to call them they will not be home (he didn't seem to remember that the reason the judge ordered that we come back around NYE was because S5 had to return to school two days after). I sent him S5 school calendar and I told him to organize his schedule around it. The next thing you know, he sending me a loooong email asking me to confirm all the days and holidays of all of 2018!!! I swear it was on the morning of January 3, 2018 and he wanted me to confirm if he could have them the weekend of 1st of December!! It was surreal. He wanted me to confirm that they will go to Canada in March, then in the summer and then he wants to come and have a birthday party for them on December 2nd, and then to conclude it all he wants to know where we will spend Christmas.

The thing is though, I don't get as startled as I did after BD. He does not scare me at all anymore. He is a broken man who is losing his grip with reality and I am lucky enough that a) I don't live in the same country and b) he doesn't get to mess with the boys as often as he would if we lived closer to each other. I am so glad this is long distance MLC! Anyway, my response to that "uber planning" email was simple and measured. I told him he could have the boys in March (but didn't tell him I am not going, so he will need to pay to come get them and bring them back - that is four trips so it's going to be fun to watch his reaction when I tell him that I can't go because I have a medical procedure during the week he wants them - this by the way was scheduled last december). I said for the summer and winter dates I couldn't confirm yet but will do so later on. He lost it, emailed me to say that I confirm everything immediately since he needs to plan ahead! I ignored the message.

He came back later to ask for skyping with the kids the following week and I decided to apply the new boundaries - told him that since it was hard the last term with his calls at 6 pm when the kids just got home and we are in the middle of dinner and the usual grumpiness of tired and hungry kids, that it's best to call at 8pm during the weekdays to wish the kids goodnight and on Sunday afternoon for a longer catch up. I also told him that since I also need to do reading practice with S5 a few times a week, that it was best if he called twice during the week for good night and then one long call in the afternoon on sunday. He was very upset and he wrote to say that I am "limiting his access to his children". I was still measured in my response, I laid out the kids schedule everyday and I told him that I understand he misses them but that I am doing my best to balance the calls with their other needs and activities. I told him that I was hoping he can be flexible and adaptable and that I was sure we will find a way that works for them and for him. Then I told him that I won't be able to reply to his emails everyday unless it's an emergency, that he doesn't need to send me daily reminders that he will be calling the kids. I said I will be emailing once a week regarding the skype schedule and that was. He said " I am doing my best to email as little as possible" ! Ha!

More update soon.

Online Thunder

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2018, 04:41:29 AM »
Ok, Lioness gets the 1st Hero's Spouse Award of the year!!!   ;D

{{{{{APPLAUSE}}}}

Hon, her threw all that crap at you and you didn't give him or her the satisfaction of a reaction of any kind.
I would bet you SHE put that picture of herself in there.  He may not have even known.  Their pretty dirty that way.  Obviously wants to say...he's mine now.  Pffft!

Who cares, he's certainly no prize at the moment.  Let her have the crazy MLCer.
YOU had the real H that she will never have.

I glad you had fun with your lovely friends and got to relax!   :)

Hugs
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Treasur

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2018, 04:47:05 AM »
I think the nastiness and 'poking' you stuff is done for a few reasons in MLC...they like drama, they want to provoke a reaction from you which justifies their behaviour or reassures them you still care/are there, or they want to control everything because they feel so out of control...or sometimes as I found out from Watchgate, they are just full of anger and looking for a way to let it out.

You, my darling Lioness, were full of magnificence, wisdom and self-control. You're getting good at this...and that is going p**s your MLC H off and make things rather more challenging (for him) as he is a teenager and you are an adult  ;)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 04:49:35 AM by Treasur »
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
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Online Thunder

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2018, 04:53:36 AM »
All those emails were just about control and you didn't allow it.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2018, 07:44:36 AM »
Ok, Lioness gets the 1st Hero's Spouse Award of the year!!!   ;D

{{{{{APPLAUSE}}}}

Hon, her threw all that crap at you and you didn't give him or her the satisfaction of a reaction of any kind.
I would bet you SHE put that picture of herself in there.  He may not have even known.  Their pretty dirty that way.  Obviously wants to say...he's mine now.  Pffft!

Who cares, he's certainly no prize at the moment.  Let her have the crazy MLCer.
YOU had the real H that she will never have.

I glad you had fun with your lovely friends and got to relax!   :)

Hugs

Thank you Thunder! I thought about that you know about the OW? S5 told me she was the one who dressed them up etc so I thought she would have also "helped" pack the kids stuff. Either way, I ignored it all and will continue to do. I am so proud of my self for not responding to their BS. I am not and will not bring myself to that level of pettiness, no matter what they do.

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2018, 07:54:24 AM »
I think the nastiness and 'poking' you stuff is done for a few reasons in MLC...they like drama, they want to provoke a reaction from you which justifies their behaviour or reassures them you still care/are there, or they want to control everything because they feel so out of control...or sometimes as I found out from Watchgate, they are just full of anger and looking for a way to let it out.

You, my darling Lioness, were full of magnificence, wisdom and self-control. You're getting good at this...and that is going p**s your MLC H off and make things rather more challenging (for him) as he is a teenager and you are an adult  ;)

Thank you Treasur!  :-* I honestly think that in my MLC H's case, it is a combination of all those reasons but control seems more prominent. I have known him for almost 11 years and one thing everyone who's ever met him knows is that he is not good at planning, he is always late and he forgets things at a very alarming rate. So him being all up in arms because I am not confirming the December schedule is just plain BS, possibly because he is feeling out of control and needs to find an outlet for that to come out!
I don't think he is anywhere close to being cooked!

Online Mortesbride

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2018, 08:18:21 AM »
Well he is no where near cooked, but he is certainly scrambled.  8)

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2018, 08:22:30 AM »
Well he is no where near cooked, but he is certainly scrambled.  8)

Mortes you are a great punster!

Offline Tyks

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2018, 08:56:26 AM »
I wanna be like you when I grow up, Lioness! I cannot believe that you did not have a reaction. Darn, I just cant get that part down :(
Me 48
Him 48
22 years together - Married 20
BD1 - August 26, 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD 2 - August 28, 2016 - OW discovered EA - Kicked him out - currently separated
D15 D18

April 2017 - Legal Separation Agreement
August 2017 - I filed for divorce

Offline Velika

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2018, 10:08:06 AM »
L you handled so masterfully! Brava!! 💛

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2018, 12:49:32 PM »
Thank you V and Tyks! Honestly I don't really feel that it matters, in the long scheme of things, to fight with h over this recent behaviour. In many ways I even feel sorry for him. It must be so hard to live with such a messed up mind, let alone a broken soul. So I will not add to it by engaging with it. The most important thing to me and my life is my children and they are largely protected. So the rest seems nothing but trivial firetruck ups of a man without a heart.


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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2018, 01:13:56 PM »
Continuing to journal

It has been an interesting week since my last exchange with H. Like I told him, I have kept my word of not emailing no matter what. I have also made sure the boys are online on time. We are now fully recovered and the boys seem to be happy in the routine and structure we have.

There was however one thing that was really hard and I think all this was taking a toll on my health because I have been having difficulty sleeping, with my thoughts racing most of the time. I have discovered the relaxation music on Youtube - thanks to a video Velika shared with me - and it is helping but last week was hard. I was also not often able to do the evening bedtime story time with the kids because my heart just wasn't into it. They watched way too many movies. I feel like it was my way of grieving once more, of accepting that my life is indeed changing before my own eyes.

I had a long chat with an old friend a couple of days ago and it reminded me that I am surrounded by people who in many ways are my "witnesses", who know my story and how it all started and who remind me that none of this was my fault. I may not have been a perfect wife but I and the boys didn't deserve this from h. In a way it validates what I know. That the last two years have been insanely painful even if I am strong enough to live with them, that my boys are resilient and that we will pull through, that I was once married to a kind and gentle man, and that I will find my way back to being grounded again.

H has been quiet since last week too, he emailed a day ago to ask if the "we were online" - I suspect he was on Skype and was impatient if we were slightly late to get online although we put the kids on Skype at exactly 8:03pm!
I am feeling much better focused on my self, and although I cannot really say that I am further along in my detachment from the chaos, I am way way further down than I was three or four months ago.

I am learning a lot about detachment, about what contact and no contact really means. I have also learned a lot from Treasur's approach to emails - while I cannot afford not to read his emails, I can limit them. It's really interesting when you stop and think about what you like and not the MLCer. I created a new gmail account and called it S1&S2's email adress, and I told h to use that one - to me it feels right that if we are communicating about kids only then we will do it through an email adress that is different from my personal/professional email account. Then I put it on my computer at home and do not have access to it until I come home in the evening. This means that during the day I am not going to have to read one of his emails while I am at the department. It means I am controling that little bit of my life, the best way I can. And by not replying so often, I am also sending him a message that I am not available all the time. While I had told him that I wasn't accessing emails often when he came last December, now I am actually following through he can see it at the very least.

I am starting the new year with one goal and one goal only with regards to MLCer: to keep myself and my boys protected even further from MLCer by using strong boundaries, by applying "focused" contact, by being kind and polite in my interactions with him but not intervening in his affairs, and by trying to get my lawyer to get me more child support monies from him. I will go ahead with the divorce because I believe I deserve the older H but definitely do not want anything to do with this one.

Otherwise, I am trying to find my foot again and focus on my work here at school and I have faith that it will work out in the end. He may have broken my heart and robbed my children of their innocence but he cannot, he will not break my will to survive and even thrive. Happy 2018 to you all friends! We got this!

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2018, 01:54:27 PM »
Well he is no where near cooked, but he is certainly scrambled.  8)
[/quote/]

I agree!   

Lioness, you have my admiration!!
M 56
H 56
S 25
S 24
D 22
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2018, 02:42:13 PM »
Ok Lioness, I must join all others in saying how wonderfully you handled this situation. I am sure I would have lost my sh!te a d spewed all over my H. And I have. I like what you say about the older H, bc who we are dealing with are definitely aliens. And yours in particular seems to want so badly to control one thing in his life bc he is otherwise so out of control. Amazing isn’t it that he chooses to try to control YOU? The person he abandoned. But that is part of their script too.

Ok I know we are not supposed to pay any attention to the OW. But really.....who in their right mind would take up with a man living with his parents?  And then choose to stay there when his small children are there? Never mind the fact that these MLCers are extremely damaged, and undatable in their present condition. What a tragic, sad being this person must be. Almost makes you pity them. Almost.

Ok rant over. I’ll end with this: Lioness I think you are my hero! Hugs friend. I know this is excruciating at times, but wow, your boys have one strong amazing Lioness raising them!
Me 46
H 45
S11
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo.

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2018, 11:58:52 PM »
Agreeing with everyone else!  What a great update.  Stay strong, Lioness!  You've got this.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2018, 11:47:38 AM »
Awww....Mitz, KIT and FW, your words meant a lot to me. Thank you for encouraging me, God knows how validation is important in this MLC!

I had a weird last couple of days, where I haven't been able to work at all and all I want to do is sleeping. It's weird but at the same time I feel like my body is telling me that is what I need. I have also been reflecting more on what this new year will be about for me and for the boys. For the first time since BD, I actually feel good hanging out with the kids. The other day I took S5 for pizza after school and I loved being with my little guy. I am not as overwhelmed by grief and sadness when I look in their eyes, although more often than not I feel like hiding from them, so they don't see my face and how lost I must look most of the time. Overall though, we have had a positive start to the year.

School term for myself starts this coming week and while I can't say that I am certainly ready for it, I am looking forward to it and to how reassuring the daily grind will be. I am a bit anxious about how little concentration I seem to have but I figure I will have to fake it until I actually make it. Just like MLC's shenanigans. If I force myself to think that I am doing ok, eventually all will be ok  :o :o :o. I think i am going to throw myself into my work, literally and figuratively and hopefully that will save me, if only to keep me further away to thinking that I am going to be divorced at 38years of age, a single mom and immigrant to a new country yet again and with a burden of an ex-husband who at best is angry and depressed and at worst bat-$h!te crazy, with a particular obsession to Skyping with the children every day of the week even if he actually knows nothing about them or their lives and pays little support. One day, I swear, I will write a book about this ordeal, it shouldn't go untold!

Divorce will be an interesting process, one that I am not sure what it will look like. My lawyer wants to serve H when he will next be here, instead of him receiving the paperwork in Canada. At this point, we don't really know if and when that will be. If he, like he asked, wants the kids in March, I will tell them to come and pick them so maybe then he can have the divorce petition served to him. I don't know though if that is going to happen, given that he will need to fly here, fly the kids to canada, bring them back, fly back to Canada. I doubt that he will want to spend that much money three times a year. I also doubt if he will actually follow up with what he had said about moving to England to be with the kids. I have learned not to trust a single thing H says until I see it in action and at the moment the man is all over the map. Or maybe I am the crazy one and he is a strong, stable genius??  :o :o :o :o :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

On the personal development front, since I have been having some sleep problems, I am thinking of picking up weekly jogging again - it might help ease the tension and anxiety I may have been accumulating I think. I also went to see my therapist yesterday and she recommends to stay the course. It feels like all I do is talk and talk and process what happened with H - I think it is helping me not fall into depression but at the same time I am tired and my head just wants to rest if that makes sense. So I need to bring my body back into motion again, even practice those cycling skills I learned last November. One of the things i am finding particularly challenging is this fear (irrational of course) that something terrible (like an accident or a really bad illness like cancer) is going to happen to me and that my H will use it to take the kids from me or that I will die and leave them with a crazy father and his messed up family. I know it's irrational but oh my god it terrifies me! Please tell me that I am not going crazy and that these fears are justified! Or at the very least justifiable! My therapist says it's normal to fear losing the kids.

Anyway, as to make matters worse, on thursday morning I was taking S5 to school and as we got on the bus the floor was wet and it had been drizzling all morning. The bus took off suddenly and I slid and fell on my knee and while I don't think I have a serious injury I hurt my knee and my upper leg/lower back has been acting funny. I contacted the company and made a proper claim and they are investigating the matter but oh my god it made my fear and nightmare seem so real! So I am still recovering from the shock of that too and today have been feeling a little low. How on earth will I be able to raise 2 kids this young and finish school and deal with h and remain sane? It seems unsurmountable at times and today felt like one of those times.

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2018, 12:34:29 PM »
Hi Lioness,

I totally understand your fears -- the thought of what would happen to D9 if I passed away does cross my mind as well.  Luckily, my parents are close by and D9 feels very comfortable with them but they are getting to their mid-seventies and are no longer that active.  And I know that H is too caught up with himself that he would be able to care for D9's emotional needs.  Thinking about how abandoned D9 would feel if I suddenly disappeared from her life is heart-breaking.

You've handled your H's provocations with OW and attempts to control everything like a pro!   ::) about wanting to set the dates immediately for one year in advance and for including a photo of OW...

Thinking of you and sending strength your way,
Puzzled
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2018, 12:58:58 PM »
Thank you Puzzled! Some days i wonder: I mean I am a pretty strong and grounded woman and have weathered hardship before and i am finding this whole crisis really overwhelming and often impossible to navigate,  how on god's earth is H so ready to move on (or in this case already moved on? How does he rationally make sense of having two little kids who won't see him while growing up? How does he find the strength to attach to someone new?
The mysteries of MLC!

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2018, 01:13:02 PM »
I'm convinced that he is not ready to move on and cannot form a healthy relationship with anyone else at the moment and for quite a while.  I think MLCers run away from themselves and while they may think that they are very much in love and possibly found their soul mate, they are pulling wool over their own eyes.  It'll be a hard awakening!  When reading accounts from former MLCers, it stood out for me that -- when the fog lifted -- the OW really meant nothing to them and that some even felt disgusted by them.
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2018, 01:21:49 PM »
I'm also wondering how my H can let the months and years pass by and not spend more time with his child.  I somehow have the feeling that H is keeping D9 at arm's length although he says that he wants to have her in his daily life. 

We talked about next year's schooling for D9 and it seems to me that H isn't really advocating for D9 and me to move to England although he's been saying all these months that that would be ideal for him.

Maybe it's part of re-enacting the abandonment they experienced as children?
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2018, 01:45:18 PM »
I'm also wondering how my H can let the months and years pass by and not spend more time with his child.  I somehow have the feeling that H is keeping D9 at arm's length although he says that he wants to have her in his daily life. 

We talked about next year's schooling for D9 and it seems to me that H isn't really advocating for D9 and me to move to England although he's been saying all these months that that would be ideal for him.

Maybe it's part of re-enacting the abandonment they experienced as children?

Puzzled our stories are similar and so are our reflections! I don't think your h really wants you guys to move (and for what it is wort I don't think it would be better for you or D to do so now)! But I suppose they say these things more to convince themselves really! Do you remember when I arrived in England my h told me and S5 and everyone else who would listen that he wants to be "closer" to the kids. I believe he even looked for work briefly. Next thing I know he is calling the police accusing me of child abuse and parental alienation! Suddenly left to go back to Canada. Two months ago he emails to ask if I will still be in Englan this summer because (his words) he "wants to look at how he can be closer to the kids"! Two weeks later he introduces OW and together they play mommy and daddy to the kids!
So am not sure they really know what they are doing when they throw these big words out there and I for one don't actually believe anything my H say. I have no trust whatsoever in his ability to make a decision at athe moment. I think you and D9 are better off leaving him to it for now Puzzled! I think our h cannot give us or their children anything really. They have nothing to give. It is the saddest thing ever.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2018, 01:52:32 PM »
Also Puzzled, yes it is a reenactment of child hood abandonment! My h is reanaacting his dad's leaving or rather checking out. Very classic. At the same time he is trying "not to be his dad" hence the obsession with the kids and Skype. But funny enough he actually doesn't fight hard or follow through with the school or anything- it is all very superficial. Like he had to ask me who is S1's main care provider at nursery even though he has access to daily online reports filed by her!!! He doesn't know the books they read, the friends etc. He just wants to be online and see them and tell himself that he is better than his dad!

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2018, 02:42:28 PM »
Yes, it is very sad indeed that they cannot give anything at the moment.  They are like an empty husk.  Maybe it takes all their energy to go through this crisis.

Not sure what motivates MLCers to say things like they want to be closer to their kids and not follow through.  Is it because they want to look good in the eyes of others or because they know that they are supposed to feel that way (but don't really)?  I see it in my H -- he doesn't follow through skyping more than once a week with D9 (although he says he wants to do so), he now avoids talking about how to split up D9's school breaks, and -- the latest that really surprises me -- he doesn't seem eager any more for D9 and me to move to England (even to a separate apartment).

Lioness, you're right, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to be close to my H and be exposed to his shenanigans up close.  It would probably hurt me too much, entangle us in silly arguments, and probably also not be beneficial to D9.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 02:47:05 PM by Puzzled »
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2018, 08:06:38 PM »
L, I have had those thoughts as well, the ones about something happening to me.  I think it's normal.

Sorry to hear that you hurt your knee.  I pray that the recovery is quick and that there are no lasting effects from it.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2018, 11:13:08 PM »
L, I have had those thoughts as well, the ones about something happening to me.  I think it's normal.

Sorry to hear that you hurt your knee.  I pray that the recovery is quick and that there are no lasting effects from it.

Thank you so much Faith. The knee and the hip seem better, I am still waiting to hear back from the bus company about an apology or something of the sort.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2018, 11:14:45 PM »
Journaling.

Things have been quiet with me, the boys and i are slowly getting into a good routine this week. My emotional cyclings are not as frequent as they were before. During the day I rarely have time to think about H really - i am so grateful that there isn't much in my life here in the U.K. that reminds me of him. So I go aboht my day without much thought about him.

Two things I need to jot down:

I have been sleeping better and longer mostly because over the last four or five days I have been putting on relaxing musing which helps me to sleep. It is incredible how 7 hours of sleep can make you feel so much better! I haven't been able to go running (it is raining or too dark or just meh, not fun outside and I am not motivated enough) but it is on my list. But sleeping has been good lately. The strange thing is that both last night and the night before I had dreams of H, weird dreams.
I don't remember the details of the one the night before.
But last night's dream was me receiving an email about him skyping with the kids and when I opened it there was an attached video. In the dream I told myself that he is so strange now that he has to record videos of himself and send them to me. I watched it and he was in his "New" bedroom, there were two pillows on the bed but no OW. He was tossing and turning though and I thought that his room was messy, with clothes and stuff falling off the shelves. I don't remember if he said anything in the video. But what hit me were the two pillows, and the mess around him. The night before was different because i think it was a different dream and i woke up sad. This is definitely a new stage. Not sure what it is or what my subconscious is trying to tell me.

One other thing I want to write down is about S5. While I can say that he is doing well at school and at home, happy and adjusted, I have noticed a big change in the way he behaves towards his dad. Last night he once again called and S5 chatted briefly and then said goodbye shortly after. When I asked him why, he said that he didn't want to talk to him. Three days ago the same happened and my nanny told me that S5 asked his dad if he wanted to watch a video of Star Wars but his dad didn't want to (all S5 wanted was just his dad to be on screen and share something with him), s5 said bye and logged off skype. So clearly S5 isn't too impressed with his dad since they came back. He also told me the other day that his dad "would say no if he asked him to come live near us but in a different house". It is heartbreaking of course but also in many ways, children being perceptive, it shows that he is aware of the emotional unavailability of his father. The man can't even connect with them on his own. He has to call in his family too, on the weekend! His mother and sister and whatever! When they are not online, he stays for a very short time. So obviously he has a problem right? I am not crazy, please tell me I ain't 😳🙄🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Online Mortesbride

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2018, 04:22:41 AM »
Mine has our kids 2 nights a month. Last one he left them with his mom so he could go out.

It isn't just you. It isn't right. And it isn't normal. They are just giant ......bum holes... ::)

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2018, 06:44:57 AM »
Thanks Mortes! I am amazed by how many of these people have to rely on their families to look after the kids EVEN WHEN IT IS JUST A FEW DAYS! Ughhhhh! I can't even!

Offline Puzzled

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2018, 02:02:03 PM »
Lioness, it's interesting that your S5 seems not so eager to talk with his dad these days.  One would assume that there would be a renewed and stronger bond between them, having spent two weeks together.  I think that MLCers are emotionally unavailable to their kids for the most part, being so consumed by themselves/the crisis/the AP, and kids can totally sense that.  I find it so sad to watch a formerly strong connection between MLCers and their kids eroding and see the heartbreak in D9.  I'm glad to hear that your cubs generally seem happy.
Me: 46 (43 at BD1)
H: 52 (48 at BD1)
D: 9 (6 at BD1)
Met in 1995, married since 2000
BD 1: August 2014
BD 2: October 2015, moved abroad

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2018, 08:56:58 PM »
Puzzled yes, they are emotionally unavailable and children - especially those that are very young or very sensitive can feel that and react to it by withdrawing too, in their own way. My H, in many ways has always been emotionally detached- I think when I met him he was already in MLC or he was depressed quite a bit. But over time it became obvious and a strain on our marriage. When S5 was born he seemed incredibly happy though and they had a special bond. Now that is gone and yes it is sad. I know things aren't easy for your D9, she is at such a tender age and her dad not seeming very interested must be so painful for you both. My h is also slowly losing both interest and touch and I suppose that was to be expected. Still, very heartbreaking.

Online LionessTopic starter

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Re: STANDING BRAVE
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2018, 03:13:04 AM »
Journaling

I have been following with interest Treasur's threads and it has made me think about power and divorces, two things that I think as an LBS, scare me but that I need to work on that fear. In many other areas of my life, I am a strong willed woman, not afraid to take on risk, not afraid to believe that if I can dream it I can do it. But when H left me, i think he took a great deal of my power and strength with him. He also made me very afraid of non only him but of men in general. I would like to start taking my power back. Not to be afraid anymore, of him or other men. Of being hurt. I have so much to learn.

On divorce: I don't know why I don't feel scared of divorce. Deep in my heart, I know it has to happen, no matter where it comes from. At the same time, I also know it is not the end of the world with my h, or my marriage for that matter. Should I feel differently? Hmmm so much to think about this weekend.

Otherwise no update: this past week H has been quite regular in following the Skype schedule, although S5 is not so keen on Skype with his dad. I am expecting a bit of monstering in the weeks to come. or may be not, since he is busy with OW, idk. I am very busy at school and i am excited to be back in the busy mode. I have a number of projects I am working on and I am happy to be in this mode. My heart hurts sometimes, and I get overwhelmed still, but when i come home to my boys and I know they are safe with me and that i can take care of them the way I have always wanted to, I feel an incredible amount of gratitude that I can shelter them from MLC. With them here, I feel I can do anything.

I have been thinking about how to extend my stay in the UK post my studies. It's hard for foreigners (non-Eu citizens) to do so, especially with Brexit, so keep me and the boys in your prayers. I would like them to finish they primary schooling here at the very least.  :-\ :-\


 

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