Author Topic: My Story Newbie Looking for Support and Advice  (Read 1595 times)

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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My Story Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« on: December 26, 2017, 12:10:22 PM »
Hello!  My BD was 10/29/17.  I found out today he had been planning this for several months but didn't want to tell me until after we got back from vacation visiting our son.

What I do know:

I rcvd a call from H that and he said I love you but I am not in love with you and I want a divorce.
He came home later to face me and tell me there was someone else but that is not why he was leaving me.  I was mean and miserable, I withheld sex, I ignored him, didn't clean enough, didn't cook at home enough, etc, etc.  and he has been unhappy for years.  I will admit, I am not perfect and sometimes I was naggy and b*tc#ty, but not for our entire lives together.   We hardly ever fought.  I was totally blindsided.
He left and moved in with OW.  To this date, he still tells me he didn't leave me for another woman.  The OW is totally the opporsite of me.  She dresses provacitively and has tats and piercings but is our same age.  I am a professional woman and I like to dress casually, but nicely.
He went to 2 counseling sessions but only to help me because I needed the help. 
For 3 weeks, he didn't communicate hardly at all.   In the last 2 weeks he is making time to communicate almost daily via a phone call and visits 2 to 3 times a week.  He originally started coming over to do chores around the house and fix things.  Now there is no more chores, so he is coming over to eat leftovers.

Things that he did that are out of character for him:

Buying and wearing Harley Garb on a daily basis.  I recall a conversation with him about 6 months ago after buying his HD where he advised me that he was approached in a restaurant by a gentleman and they started talking because he was wearing a HD hat.  He said he felt respected.  He did buy a HD but he had been planning on doing this for years.  It was his retirement present to himself.

When he left, he left his dog behind.  He loved his dog.   Now he hardly talks about her.

He has almost non-existant communication with our kids.  He used to talk to our son and daughter in law daily.  Now only a few minutes a week.  He hardly reaches out to our daughter or inquires about our grandson.  He is also avoid my parents even though they want to accept him no matter what has happened.

He is drinking more and spending more time gambling.  So far, he has not exceeded his allowance for these things.

He announced he is moving but doesn't know for sure where.  Maybe to Missouri to follow the OW.  Maybe to S Carolina so he can ride bike year round.
He announced he is not happy with his current job and wants to work somewhere else.  He told me he wanted to go work for HD and I told him to apply and move.  He didn't.
He just seems unhappy most of the time and sits playing video games on his phone.  If you talk to him, he doesn't hear you at all.
He has a lot of concerns about his father getting older and suffering from mild alzheimers.   This really bugs him.  Right about the time the affair was getting underway, a coworker died suddenly from a heart attack.

I have read and read and read over the last few months.    I think he may be in a MLC but how do I know for sure?  I don't want to pigeon hole him into this only to make me feel better.  How do I know if it was truly an unhappy marriage like he claims or if it could be MLC.

What do I do from here?  Right now I am standing and plan on doing this for as long as I can.   He no longer wants a divorce because he doesn't want me to loose healthcare, but he is still with the OW.

I am open to advice and suggestions.   D

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »
I don't know if it is going to make you feel better in the long run...but there's nothing in your post that DOESN'T sound like MLC.

Online OldPilot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 12:33:06 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

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Online Thunder

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 01:47:07 PM »
Samp, he is like a poster child for MLC.

Everything he is doing is right from the check off list.
I'm really sorry you are going through this.  It's very hard and it takes a long time for them to come out of it.

All I can suggest is take care of yourself, have NO relationship talks with him and protect yourself, financially.
You never know what kind of mess they can put you in when their in this crisis.  They get pretty crazy.

Samp, just know you did nothing to cause this, no matter what he says.  All lies he made up in his head! It not about you or your marriage, it about him and his crazy crisis.

You can't fix him or hurry it up.  It's something he needs to get through.

May I suggest, if he's living with his ow he should not be able to come and go at your home.  He should be calling you first to see if it's ok.  He is no longer living there and needs to respect your privacy.

Keep reading all the articles and stories on here.  They will help.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 02:22:57 PM »
Hello and welcome, sampsed.

Agree. Not much more, if anything, you can do.

You are already prepared for the situation to last a long while.

Hard and weird it may be, it is true, your husband didn't left for another woman. He left because he is MLC. OW come with the territory. She is a symptom, not the reason.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline barbiedoll

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 02:38:33 PM »
Hello Samp ... there is nothing that does NOT sound 100% MLC. All of it. So, welcome, you will find much support and advise here . Keep reading and posting and we will help wherever we can. I absolutely agree with Thunder . He should not be coming and going from your home as if he lives there . He is living with another women, so things need to change accordingly . He cannot have/do both. For now, just read and comment as you like but boundaries will be something to consider. Take good care of yourself in all ways . welcome!
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 04:15:05 AM »
Hi Samp,

It walks like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, poops like a duck, and if cooked tastes like a duck.... There is a 99.95% probability that, yep, it's a duck.....

I can't add to what the other have said before but they are giving you good advice. The fact he is living with someone else means that, by default, he has given up the rights to come and go as he pleases... This is NOT Hotel Hunnybunch where he can get a home cooked meal (which he complained you didn't do enough of) and whatever else .....

Anjae is also correct in that he didn't leave you BECAUSE of OW... She is a symptom of his crisis and nothing more.....

Make SURE that you are financially protected. If he does go off and quit his job, what will you do? He doesn't want to quit because then you'll loose healthcare... today... Tomorrow, he may very well change his mind... You'll need to think about what steps you need to take in the event he decides to toss it all overboard.... and plan accordingly. there is a concept about living like they are not coming back (in other words, going it alone) and this is something that you may wish to consider in the shorter, rather than the longer term.. This is really not something that can be put off because it could very quickly become too late... Mid-Lifers are about as predicatble as the path of a tornado... and just about as destructive if they get spun up....

Keep posting and you will find a lot of people with stories that are so similar they'll take your breath away.... they will also be able to help you as needed offer support or, if nothing else, a shoulder to lean on and a place to rant/vent where people actually DO understand what you are talking about....

So, for the first basics:

1) Make sure that you are eating to the extent possible and healthy... Chocolate 24x7 is probably NOT going top be a good idea but neither is starvation... A lot of us went through a period where it was virtually impossible to keep or choke anything down... The LBS diet is famous.
2) Sleep - This is hard.... Sleep is vital to our physical well-being but it is also when we became vulnerable to our own minds. I won't go into the nightmares that plagued me for a while but I found out that I was not alone, this was not something that only I had happen, and that it does pass... in time.
3) Exercise - getting some sort of physical motion, bei it going for a walk, hitting the gym, whatever, is also crucial for maintaining one's equilibrium and balance.... It may sound callous but the best thing H could have done was to leave the dog... Doggie MUST go out a certain number of times every day so that forces us to go outside whether we want to or not....
4) Water - I know it sounds absurd but making sure that you are hydrated is also very important....

Self-care is hard at first but it is crucial.....
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 07:07:12 AM »
Thanks everyone.....

H came over for leftovers last night.  He stayed and watched about an hour of TV and we had opportunity to talk...but not about us...we just talked about things in general.
When he left, he asked for a hug and I allowed him a hug.  Not romantic at all.  Just as I would give a good friend leaving.  I have made up my mind that although he may have tore down our HOME when he left, I am going to rebuild a new home with or without him.  Right now I am laying a foundation and I am trying to incorporate him from a friend point of view.

As far as him coming and going.  He has always advised me in advance of when he plans to come around with one exception.  I made last minute plans to pick up my grandson and I invited his parents to come visit.  He relayed the message but then also showed up himself.

As for this week, he is planning on stopping by Sat evening to help me clean up from Christmas and take down the decorations.  He volunteered and he has been using small jobs around the house as reasons to stop by it seems.   I would appreciate the help even though I really wouldn't need it.
He asked that my D28 and family be allowed to come over on Sunday and he join us to watch his football team.  Originally he had been planning on going to her house but then asked last night if we could all come to our home.  Since it is a family thing, I don't have a problem with this at all.
He gave me permission to invite his parents over on New Years for Pork and Kraut when I invite all my family.  This has been something we have been doing.  His parents came to visit on Thanksgiving because H and sister in law didn't do anything.  In years past we invite both sides of the family because we have the home that is functional to have multiple guests visit.

This is where I am at for me:

I have started counseling for me and I will continue as long as I need.  My sister has become my rock and is there when I need an ear but I don't want to burden her either.
I have already started looking at me and found some things I don't like and my counselor is helping me implement plans to work on these to make permanent changes so I can deal better in the future with adversity.  I already feel my confidence levels rising.  She is also working with me to rebuild me as I address the good and the bad of me.
I started a work out regime almost 1.5 mos ago and I have stuck with it.  Today was terribly cold in PA and I was going to avoid my walk, but H called to tell me that there was no wind and despite the bitter cold, if I bundled I would be safe to walk.   Actually he was right and I appreciate his support.  I walk at least an hour a day and it adds up to between 3 and 4 miles.   I was extremely overweight and thus far I have lost 40 pounds all through exercise and smart food choices.   I know I have to take care of myself...not only for me but for our pets and my children and grand children.  I want to stay healthy and happy for all of us!  I still have another 76 pounds to loose and I am planning on it taking a year or more to reach my goal.
Everyone says work on you.....I am trying but I always feel like I am not doing enough.   I am constantly looking for more I can work on.  I would love to ask H what else he thinks I should work on, but I worry that doing so would put undo pressure on him.  Thoughts?   Should I even worry about what he thinks at this time?
I am trying hard to get into a mindset that the marriage as I knew it was over.  I love H and I want him to be happy.  If that means he has to leave me to be with someone else to be happy, then I want to eventually be the one who can truly support him.   In order to do that, I know I have to come to terms with the end of the marriage and I have prepare to move forward.   The part that is holding me back is that I can't get WE and US out of my head.   I think to the future and I still envision him and I having a life together and that is what I need to put behind me somehow and concentrate on what I need to do for me.  I was doing well moving in that direction and then he suddenly started to come around.

As for health care, that is not tied to his current job.  If he quits, healthcare continues.  He is retired law enforcement so the healthcare we have is with the position he retired from.  If he quits his job, the only thing he will loose is additional life insurance and his fun money.

I have not yet consulted an attorney.  I will be doing so after the holidays.   I was going to go do it about a month ago but I was an emotional train wreck and now I feel strong enough to actually go and talk and get the info I need.

My concerns right now:

Is it normal for him to come back for the visits so soon?   Part of me wants to be hopeful, but I know there is no hope as long as he is living with OW and right now I see no moves in him moving away from that situation.   Part of me is full of fear that he is playing games.  Basically stringing us both along.  I feel in my heart that he is probably not being honest with her at all about coming for visits but I honestly do not know that for sure.  It is just my gut feeling.

How should I handle visits in the future.  You talk about boundaries....what would be a good boundary so we can continue to have communication and get to know each other again  but also so that he is not abusing the privilege of visiting me at home? I keep these visits purley platonic and I have no plans on allowing them to escalate should he try.  Thus far, he has not tried.  It is just as 2 friends visiting.   Should I address with him that I don't feel he is being honest with the OW and he should be if he hopes to have a future with her?  I don't feel like it is my place as his wife, but technically I really am no longer his wife and as a woman thinking about another woman, he is treating her unfairly.   That rustles my feathers.   Friends tell me it is none of my concern and let it be.   

thanks again for all your help and support!   D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 08:35:35 AM »
Hey Newbie, you sound just like me!  I have also been afraid of labeling it just to make myself feel better.  This road sucks, but there are plenty of growth opportunities.  I am still very much a newbie too.  In the beginning I took 100% of the blame.  Well, because he blamed me 100%!   It's been very hard to shake that off.  But I have come to a place where I own my part of it and am working very hard to better myself.  As far as I can tell, he doesn't own any of his part of it which was quite a lot!

 Lately for me, it has been best to have as little contact with him as possible.  Obviously, because we still have yet to go through the process, and we have kids, we still have to have some contact.  I try to stay as unemotional as possible and communicate through email.  This is very tough and I have dreams about him every night.  I just have to have faith that I will get through this.

 My goal is to reach a point of forgiveness, both for myself and for him.  I don't want to hang on to anger and bitterness, but I know that will be with me for awhile.  I'm trying not to be hard on myself in any way (he does enough of that for both of us!) Stay strong and do something kind for yourself everyday.  (((hugs)))
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 05:17:59 AM »
Yesterday was interesting. H sent me a text letting me know he wanted to stop by the house to pick up more leftovers. Told me he would be in and out before I was home. I was fine with that and told him so.  When I got home from work, his car was in the driveway. Walked in expecting to see him and he was there with his brother eating pie and making sandwiches for tomorrow’s lunch as planned.  FYI. His brother has been out of the area for 4 years and we bought this house only 3 years ago

I held my calm and welcomed brother home and was a hospitable hostess. The two of them walked the property said goodbyes and left

This morning I nicely confronted him as to why he brought his brother around. His reply.  I wanted to show him our house. He had never seen it. I showed him the land we own and talked to him about the boundary dispute we have with the neighbor. I advised in the future he check with me before bringing guests to the house.

What I don’t get is why bring your brother to see the home you left and have no intention of returning too

Second interesting event, H advised my sister that I am his friend and that is all it is going to be now and for awhile. He also told her he needs to leave the home of the OW and live on his own but doesn’t know when. He still plans on moving away but unsure when. OW is not happy that he plans to move away in the future.  He can envision his future with the OW but he can also envision his future without the OW.  He had no regrets for what he had done. Lastly the OW does not know he is visiting but he doesn’t care if she finds out because he is never gonna he pinned down again.

Wow is all I can say.  That is a lot of info that he shared with my sister. I am assuming he knows she is sharing with me.

Is it wrong that none of this is surprising based on my research. Is it wrong that I still hope for the day he finishes his journey even though I  know it may be a long time coming?  Is it ok to still have controlled visits?  He comes over occasionally for supper and some movies?
Am I on the right course of action to support him but not enable him?
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online Thunder

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 05:56:17 AM »
First off let me congratulate you on your weight loss.  Awesome job!

Samps, I hate saying this but right now your H is not your friend.  They all try this.  They blow up the marriage, walk out, live with ow's, then think we should be their friend??
It's only to look like the good guy so they can cover their guilt.  See..look we are still friends, I didn't do anything wrong.  She's not upset.

But they did do something wrong.  They just don't want to own it because they know what they are doing is unkind.
True friends are not unkind and go out of their way not to hurt us.

I'm not saying you shouldn't treat him friendly, but there is a difference between friendly and a friend.
Friendly is how you treat a cousin or a co-worker.

I'm having a hard time with him coming over for leftovers.  He no longer lives there, those are not his leftovers.
Let his ow cook for him.

I'm glad you see how unfair he is being to both of you.  Most hate the ow and could care less about her, but she is human being too.  Granted a screwed up human being but you both deserve respect.
If he is living with her and see you he is cake eating.

Please don't allow him to have the best of two worlds.
It will never give him incentive to change, or miss you.  He'll have both of you.
He needs to know you are not an option, you are his wife....or you are nothing..no friend and I would tell your sister that.

As far as talking to him about the ow I wouldn't do it.  It just gives her power.  Act like she doesn't even exist.  If he brings her up..sorry but I don't care to hear about her, she is nothing to me.

I personally think you are doing good for being in this such a short time.
Keep taking good care of yourself and do things that make you happy.  Let him do his own thing.

I too walk for an hour every day and love walking in all weather.  You just have to dress for it.   :)

Hugs
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 07:25:36 AM »
Sampsed,

LISTEN TO THUNDER!

She is SO correct in all of that stuff.... the cake eating, the "We can be friends giving the OW/OM as little head space as possible.. (I mean, seriously, why allow someone like that to live in your head rent free?)
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 07:28:53 AM »
Please don't allow him to have the best of two worlds.
It will never give him incentive to change, or miss you.  He'll have both of you.
He needs to know you are not an option, you are his wife....or you are nothing..no friend and I would tell your sister that.

What is the best way to do this?  I have already given him permission to have controlled visits.  Meaning he makes arrangements ahead of time with me.

I agree with what you are saying but I also spoke one thing and I need to handle this in an appropriate way so I don't look like I am wishy washy or going back on my word.  Yet I don't want to lie or deceive him as that is not my way.  In the past, I have handled things very straight forward and he accused me of be controlling because of this way of dealing.

My previous habits tell me to just tell him he left he can't come back but at the same time my heart says that him coming back is a way of getting to see the new me that I am slowly becoming.  The new and improved me.  Is giving an ultimatium the right way?   Tell him you can only come and see me when you are done with her?  I know that would make me feel better but is the right way of handling him in his current mindset?

Help please!
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 07:31:15 AM »
I agree with everything Thunder said!  I think you are doing fantastically.

One thing you said concerns me: "I am constantly looking for more I can work on.  I would love to ask H what else he thinks I should work on, but I worry that doing so would put undo pressure on him.  Thoughts?"

I would not ask H what you should work on.  That sounds extremely unhealthy for you.  And are you working enough on being kind to yourself?  You deserve to be treated well.  Do you get a mani-pedi on occasion? A massage? Treat yourself to a nice lunch with a girlfriend? You are already "good enough".  You don't have to jump through his hoops.  Decide for yourself what you want to improve and work on that, but be gentle and kind to yourself.  This situation can send our self esteem into the gutter, but that is an illusion that eventually we will come out of.


  I too have lost some weight (although gained a bit back over the holidays) and still need to lose around another 40 lbs.  One thing I've noticed for me is that I am no longer eating to stuff my feelings.  I ate a bit too much holiday goodies, but I don't have that urge to just massively overeat to numb myself.  It's different now.  Just wondering if you are experiencing something similar?

You are doing beautifully!  I live in upstate NY so I experience similar weather as you.  It is cold out now!  I want to walk again, but haven't yet figured out where I can handle it between the ice and the cold. 

Lots and Lots of (((((hugs)))) to you - you are doing great!
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Online Thunder

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 08:31:53 AM »
Oh no samps, never give him ultimatums.  Just statements like "As long as you are living with ow, I won't be your friend."

Something like that, but no not giving him ultimatums. 

Maybe.."The more I think about it you are living with someone else now so it is disrespectful to us to keep seeing us both.  Maybe coming to the house is not a good idea"

Word it anyway you want.

I hope you get the point.  Just letting him know you won't be disrespected.  No more back and forth.
He made a choice so let him live with it.

He won't like it, may even get angry, but it's his consequence for moving in with ow and leaving you.
He doesn't get both of you.  He'll get over it.

I just wonder how his brother felt about him showing off the house, while living with a gf.

You can always talk to him or meet him on occasion but not at your home.  If he wants to talk tell him sure let's meet somewhere.
Then show up lookin' great and be friendly and kind.  Or if you want, ask him out for coffee, occasionally.

I know this sounds harsh but he needs some boundaries.  He has none right now.  He has a w and a gf, how great for him.

Samps, I know this is hard to do because part of you still wants to see him, but he needs to miss you also.
Just make statements you can live with. 
Only you know what they are.  Think about them.
I don't want to tell you what to do, these are just suggestions.

You will gain more strength as time goes on.  Take baby steps.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 10:35:11 PM »
Sampsed,

I am so sorry to be unpopular and disagreeable with my amazing mentors, but given how early you are from Bomb Drop I do disagree with Thunder regarding visitations and boundaries--she mentioned baby steps and these are valid for changing visitation and setting boundaries also.

As of now your MLCer is displaying typical Clinging Boomerang behaviors--so don't mistake his actions for reconnecting or something like that.

I love Thunder's script suggestions, but I would save them for later use. Standing and doing what I am suggesting is a very delicate balancing act because there is going to be some allowed cake eating at this point and you don't want to send the message that you are okay with his actions and yet right now while he is still early in the tunnel and close to you it is a prime time for you to Pave the Way and start rebuilding the foundation that will be your Us.

One of your challenges is that you will eventually need to step back from this and as you said go back on your word--hopefully not literally as you need to be careful how you phrase things. But right now, in just my opinion, it is very important to re-establish a positive relationship with him and you do that through active communication. Yes, he should let you know if he is going to come over...though does this apply if you are at work? My husband would spend time in our home while I was at work--thinking I could not tell he'd been there and thus that I did not know. I felt he needed to maintain his connection with our house as home and secretly encouraged this behavior--later when his MLC progressed this was a privilege I removed.

Now my MLCer was not living with the alienator for the first 4 weeks after he left and so for that very brief time there was not the conflict of living with another woman that you now have, but after those 4 weeks my MLCer did live with her and continued to do so every time he left home throughout his MLC. My MLCer also did not move out for 6 weeks during which I was able to do a lot of the initial Paving the Way which you are now doing while he is living with someone else.

I appreciate that you are concerned for the alienator. The first time my husband left his alienator he was not going to tell her and I told him he needed to be a man and at least give her the respect of letting her know he was breaking up with her and told him to go to her work and do it. He vowed to never do that again though and so I had to just accept it after that when he left her by sneaking out. But at least I had my initial say and I think she knew that first time was because of me. As for worrying about her not knowing that he is coming to his house...she is choosing to be with a married man and that sort of worry comes with the territory. Let her lie in the bed she is making. Statistically affairs are doomed to end, don't try to help it succeed even in the tiniest way. And if it is because you are being noble and want him with her if that is what makes him happy... This is not the relationship that is going to be a joyful one for him in the long run. It is starting as an affair and that means problems. Wish for him to meet someone else when his relationship with you has truly had its closure and he is more right with his Self. Affairs are conflicted relationships with a lot of jealouse, break-ups and arguments--and one of the biggest topics of argument is that you exist. That's good, not bad.

I personally think it can be better from a Stander's view and goal when the MLCer and alienator are cohabiting. He's less likely to be looking for other alienators and is in deep with the conflict since they are living together.

You are very early in MLC and it can go in several directions. For now, I actually like what you are doing... supposing you will be able to step back from it when the time is right--and that is another challenge, when is it right. I stepped back and then forward again a bunch of times in testing and wondering, but it worked out in the end. I think you are right that with the changes you are making--and so quickly--what you are doing gives him the chance to see and experience your changes.

I like that you are in counseling and that you are so motivated in your Mirror Work. Keep it up! My love was hypnotherapy.

HUGS
RCR

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2017, 12:26:18 AM »
Welcome to the club Samp, you'll get plenty of good advice here.

It is normal for the MLCers to visit us regularly.  My H visited the week after he left to have a spa bath ::)  I told him that he would not be doing this again, so the next week he came to iron a shirt :o  I told him again that while he was making very poor life choices, he would not be ironing his shirts at my home.

He eventually got the message.  Boundaries are for you.  If you find it difficult with him in the home, visit with him elsewhere.  If you starts talking about the OW and this bothers you, tell him you will not have her name mentioned in front of you.  This way you are protecting yourself from Hurt.

You're doing remarkably well for a newbie.  The mirror work is imperative, I did so much I thought I was gonna fall into that mirror ;D 

My H left after 18 months and he has been gone for three years now.  He is still deep in replay and has an OW who visits most nights of the week.  I have no doubt one day he will hit rock bottom.

You will get the hang of how to treat him over time, so take those baby steps, make mistakes and learn from them.

Most important is that you learn how to be happy by yourself and live your life as if he is never coming back, so that if he does, you are a whole an independent woman for him to get to know again.

(((((((Hugs)))))))
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2017, 06:31:12 AM »
Glad you found  us!   Sorry you needed to!

Congratulations on your weight loss and your vision of becoming healthier!!
That is the most important thing right now, become healthy for you!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline FearNot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2017, 07:48:55 AM »
Hi Samsed,

I am new here also! I don't have any advice to really offer, as I'm just beginning my journey as well. Just sending <hugs> and thinking of you.
M 46
H 39
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/17

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2017, 12:40:06 PM »
Thank you everyone for the love, support and advice provided.

Today has been a good day.  We had a few texts last night while I was taking him Mom to see our grandson.  Today, nothing, but I am not surprised.  He is off today and probably has OW company.

For me it has actually been a very good day.  I made lists of things to do...got them done and then treated myself to a sushi lunch.  I didn't bother asking friends because none of mine like it so I went alone and I was surprised at myself.   I chose to sit facing the center of the restaurant so I could see everyone.   I didn't get nervous or panicky at all.  I was very much relaxed and confident and I enjoyed myself.   Was so afraid I would sit there alone feeling like a looser, but I didn't   It felt great!  It was empowering!  I will do it again.  My next goal to tackle is going to a movie by myself. 

Came home and should be cleaning right now but decided I have all night to putz around so I did some reading and checked in on the responses.

I realize that one day I will need to set boundaries and I am preparing myself for that.  Right now he is being respectful of "making an appointment" to come to the house.  Only time he disrespected this was bringing his brother up. Honestly, he told me he was coming, just the bro was a surprise and he explained he was running late because they stopped to visit a friend on the way here.   Not making excuses but we talked about it and he understands where I am coming from.

Not to be disrespectful to all the vets here and especially to RCR, but you see him as a clingy boomerang.   I don't see that and from your experiences, i wonder what you are seeing/feeling that I am not.  If he is clingy, is there something different I need to do or still follow the same protocol?

He comes over but this only started about 2 weeks ago.  When he is here, we only talk about general stuff.  Although he recently did start to make better eye contact and has been telling me about things he has been doing and people he has been seeing.  We have some mutual friendships and when he runs into them, he updates me on how they are doing.   He has a lot more time on his hands for social run ins than I do.  During our visits, I sense no neediness from him at all. Definatly nothing romantic at all.    He sits apart from me and we will watch TV or enjoy a meal together sometimes.   He has helped with some chores but only things that he knows requires additional help.  i.e.  winterizing the pool and carport, putting up and taking down the christmas decorations, prep work for Christmas meal.  I am already pretty self sufficient and i was prior to the BD.  That was another complaint.  He was not needed.  The kids were grown and they no longer needed him and I could take care of myself and I had my businesses so i didn't need him.  Also i didn't appreciate and respect him either.   Ugh.   I did love, appreciate and respect him, but I honestly did not say it as much as he needed to hear it.  I am the type of person who does NOT need kudos for doing something.  My own internal report is satisfaction of doing a job and finishing it  I will admit, it is a fault of mine to not recognize via thanks what others do.  Something I really need to work on.   This is not just in my personal life, but in my business also.   My long time employee knows this of me and she is the one that will tell me...make sure you say thank you to so and so for stepping up today or congrat so and so for a job well done.   Enough of me rambling....

Back to my original question....H's calls to me  almost daily but it seems like he does so out of an obligation.  Like he is obligated to check in with me to see how I am doing and if I need anything and to give a quick update.   Texts are few and far between and here again are informative only.  Occasionally we have a few fun blurbs back and forth but mostly just an exchange of info.  Visits for the last 2 weeks have been about 2 to 3 times and at least one of them there is other family present.   I feel like the visits are more out of boredom so he is not sitting alone at the OW's house while she is at work in the evening.  On days she is off, I feel like I don't exist to him.  No calls and no texts at all and sometimes this actually is a relief because it really gives me time to concentrate on me and me only.  I don't think to the call or visit and worry that I said or did anything to push him away.  This is something I really need to get over and I will with time and experience.  I never had to worry before what i said to him....why now....because my world was turned upside down in 30 seconds of time and now I know our relationship is not the same and I worry about not only what I say but also how I deliver it.   I don't want to destroy what precious bonds we may have left right now.   Would like to use them as the start of a new foundation!

Legal Info:  In the State of PA, until there is a divorce or a post nuptual contract in place, I can not prevent him from entering the house as long as he is NOT abusive.  Thus far I have not seen that.   

H is definatly not the strong man that used to be my rock and go to.  He was never a man who needed to rely on a woman like he is with the OW.   We always vowed to each other if we ever were not happy we would honestly split and live on our own for at a least a year.  This was to avoid the situation that H is currently in and to keep our own self respect.  We saw too many other people do what he is doing now and we both agreed it would never happen to us.   I was totally shocked when he moved in with the OW immediately.  His reasoning is that she provided unconditional love and appreciates and respects him and provides for him emotionally  that I did not and also she needs him.  He is paying $100 a week rent while staying there and she is in need financially and he can help her out right now.  Also he says he can't rent an apartment for $400 a month.  This is true...with expense it would be double but he can afford it.  He would just have to cut back on the gambling he has taken up recently.

Once again that for the support and feedback.   I am taking to heart everything that is being shared with me.   D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2017, 03:43:45 PM »
Sampsed,

You are very early in this journey and so I am not saying that he is a Clinging Boomerang, only that right now he is behaving like one.
The first year sees a lot of ups and downs as an MLCer cycles and as the LBS and MLCer figure out the confusing dynamics of the new situation. His behavior is Clinging Boomerang due to his frequent visit schedule--even though that is new, it's so frequent and for random reasons that this is beyond a simple Boomerang who may be around more to see kids and is more neutral. Your MLCer does not need to be showing neediness--that may come later for a Clinging Boomerang. the two of you are able to communicate well--he talks to you and appears to be interested in being in your company even if he is being platonic. This may be how some Boomerangs are, but the further toward Distant you get on the Contact Spectrum, the more aloof they will be around you. I sense an eagerness in him that has to do with your presence. Sure he might just sit and watch TV and not seem to interact from your perspective and that is how it can be--especially so early in MLC.

Do what you are doing. I like that you are really focusing on you and yet not blocking him out when he is trying to engage--and this may not seem like he is engaging, but that is relative. For a normal (non-MLC) person these behaviors might not be attempts to engage, but for an MLCer he seems quite interested.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2017, 04:07:28 PM »
Like RCR said, for now, your husband's behaviour are those of a Clinging Boomerang. His contact type change, or may not. Impossible to say at this point.

Mr J was the ultimate clinger after BD, and had keep being if I hadn't come back home and gradually cut him off. At a point, it become impossible for me to deal with his drama and clinginess. And anger.

But, even if he had been quite nasty at BD, he was always around. He would call, text, send e-mails, be on the flat. Bring things. And after I come back home, for a while, he would send me CDs and magazines.

He also did something similar to Savoir Faire's husband soon after he left. We went to cut his hair on his regular barber and, instead of heading to where he was living, come by the flat for a shower. I told him he was not going to do that again.

And he become very, very upset one early evening because I didn't let him watch me got dressed. He was like "I have seen you dressing for 20 years, why can't I see it now?" I told him now things were different. He was upset, but didn't leave and waited in the leaving room.

Mr J engaged a lot and was very interested in me, talking to me, see me (too much?) after BD and for months on end. If it was up to him, he would pretty much lead a life with me, while also leading a life with OW1 and then OW2.

He was always happy and willing to go out with me to social occasions, to come by the flat, etc. But I was not happy, nor able, do deal with his two lives. He could also become very angry, violent even, so, it was not good for me.

RCR is right, the more a LBS becomes contact distant with a Clinging Boomerang, the more aloof they become/be towards us.


Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2017, 05:57:42 PM »
Thank you....that makes much more sense to me now.  I appreciate you patience and extra explanations as I meander through everything and try to make sense of it all.

OMG...want to hear something funny....about when his visitations were starting, he came by and took a shower.  Never told me but when I got home, I noticed a towel had been moved, the shower floor was wet as the bath scrubby.  He had told me he was buy earlier in the day and put the dogs out for me so I didn't have to make a special trip home.

The same day, he returned here later and brought back some tools.   He had taken the tools out sometime to fix something (I am assuming for the OW) and brought the tools back and put them away in the tool room.  That was also the first night he actually stayed around after fixing something else.  Not long, but he didn't run right off either.


He also told me when he came up this past Tuesday that he got here early and laid in bed with the dogs to watch a tv show I had recorded and tried to take a nap.  I wasn't here so I didn't care.  Plus it is the only way to give all three dogs attention.  They can lay around you in the bed....they can't all sit on your lap in the lazy boy.  LOL

Thanks again everyone!   This site is finally making me feel like I am not alone.  My family is awesome, but they don't have time to research and understand more what he is going through and what we all (my entire family) is up against for sometime to come!   Appreciate everything!   D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Anjae

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2017, 06:26:45 PM »
Families and friends, unless they have already dealt with MLC before, don't understand much of what is going on.

Like minded people like LBS do.

Clingers do the most bizarre things.

Kikki's one used to cook food and either deliver it in person or leave it by the doorstep. He was already living with OW, but keep doing it.

At a point, because legal things needed to get sorted out, Kikki also cut a bit, if not a lot, of contact with her husband. But he was super glue clinger.

Needless to say, when contact was more cut, he become more aloof.

However, endless years of dealing with a clinger will be too much. Like RCR said, at a point you will need to step back from this. Unless, of course, your husband comes out of crisis before you need to give that step.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online moc

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2017, 09:30:26 PM »
sampsed: 

Back to my original question....H's calls to me  almost daily but it seems like he does so out of an obligation.  Like he is obligated to check in with me to see how I am doing and if I need anything and to give a quick update.   Texts are few and far between and here again are informative only.  Occasionally we have a few fun blurbs back and forth but mostly just an exchange of info.  Visits for the last 2 weeks have been about 2 to 3 times and at least one of them there is other family present.   I feel like the visits are more out of boredom so he is not sitting alone at the OW's house while she is at work in the evening.  On days she is off, I feel like I don't exist to him.  No calls and no texts at all and sometimes this actually is a relief because it really gives me time to concentrate on me and me only.

This is totally clinging boomerang and this is what my Crisis Queen wife does.  I don't engage her and she sends me texts or calls to check in.  Its like their squirrel brain can't handle the silence between their ears.  They kind of do feel obligated more like the child on the playground that checks in with the parent to make sure they are still there.  You are about at the same time as my BD.  Boredom is probably most of it at best.  When my Crisis Queen calls, it is typically during lunch or just after.  I pretty much NEVER engage her with calls or texts.  That is her job.  I only do so for information or emergency purposes.  Do the same.  Go NC for yourself, not to change your H.  Enjoy the peace that it brings as I agree, it is a relief of the stress to engage and concentrate on you and what you want and need that only you can provide. 

Take care girl.
~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2017, 11:42:29 AM »
How often should I post here?  Right now I feel like this is a great release for me just to type something.

Originally H was supposed to come over today to help put away Christmas decorations.   For some reason the plans changed and what is frustrating as he didn't want to address it with me.  Be a man and say...hey...I won't be over today.  I don't need an explanation.   Just a straight forward can't make it.   Ugh.   Anyhow....he volunteered to help dismantle the decorations and put away tomorrow.  I declined.   Although it will be tough, I am getting it done today. 

Tomorrow he is planning on meeting our daughter here for Football so that will be a half day event.  Monday I have family from both sides coming over between for lunch and supper.

I want my house back in order today.  Don't want to take time away from family tomorrow to do it.

I responded to him that I hope he doesn't get upset, but I would be getting it done today as planned.  No response.  This is typical  When he doesn't want to address something, he just doesn't answer back via text.  If you are talking to him.   He goes silent.

Soon after he called regarding our gas points.  We had 70 cents per gallon to be used today.  I didn't need a full tank and neither did he.  We met and both topped off our tanks to take full advantage of the discount.  He paid for the gas in full and I offered to reimburse him my share and he declined.  When leaving, he said I will see you tomorrow and off to his car he went.  Just like it was a business transaction.  Since we were in public, I never expected anything less.  He only gives hugs when we are in private.  aka at the house and never with anyone else around.   This probably needs to stop.  Opinions?   If he can't give a friendly hug anytime or anywhere, then it probably shouldn't happen privately either.

Right now he is responding to my pictures I posted of the family going back 8 years.  It was a photo collage of our kids and dogs but it also had pics of us and our activities at our mountain cabin.  I included a statement that stated good times at the cabin.  He responded via text saying Yes, I agree.  Good times.  Amazing because he told my therapist that he has been miserable with me for the last 15 years.  Ugh!

I also posted a pic of the backyard trees with todays snowfall on them in snapchat.  He was chatting about how pretty they but he likes them best in the spring.  Spring has always been his favorite season.

Lastly, I had to send him pics of our mailbox that the local plow truck took out today.   He told me it would be easy to replace and suggested a new one instead of trying to repair the door of this one.   I asked him if he wanted to help me pick out a replacement.   Crickets!   No a word about it at all.   I was hoping that tomorrow when he was here he could help go online and find a suitable replacement.   Not a biggie.  I will just find one that I like and I can replace it myself since it is only a few screws through the bottom into the post holding it.  I don't like the one we have now anyhow.   So now I get one that I like!

Is it sad that none of his actions today really brought about an emotional reaction?   I was not expecting him to show.  It would have been nice to have help but I am not surprised that he didn't show either.  I was surprised that he chose to respond to the pics but that emotional over it.   I am happy he recognized we did have good times.  However, I also realize that in 10 minutes he could be thinking just the opposite again.   Never had any good times.

Right now I only hope and pray that he continues he journey and deals with he demons and heals as quickly as possible.  Would love to see him happy again!  I know I can't help him but I need to make sure I don't interfere with his quest either.  That is my biggest fear right now.  I do something that causes a pause or regression in his journey.

Time will tell!   I'll just keep tackling life one day at a time!   D

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Anjae

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2017, 11:47:11 AM »
How often should I post here?  Right now I feel like this is a great release for me just to type something.

Whenever you want and when feel likfe it.


Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online OldPilot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2017, 01:28:26 PM »
How often should I post here?  Right now I feel like this is a great release for me just to type something.

Whenever you want and when feel likfe it.

Also when ever you are not sure what to do or want to pursue him,
Post here.

Online moc

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2017, 05:07:03 PM »
sampsed: I agree with Anjae and OldPilot, feel free anytime, daily, etc. that you want to journal your experience.  We are all here for you.  I might be about the same BD time as you but I have already been here before with a previous MLCer1. 

I want to give some advice, take it as you will

Be a man and say...hey...I won't be over today.  I don't need an explanation.   Just a straight forward can't make it.   Ugh.   Anyhow....he volunteered to help dismantle the decorations and put away tomorrow.  I declined.   Although it will be tough, I am getting it done today.

Ah, please don't expect him to  MAN UP.  He is chooses not to.  Not that he is incapable, but it is making his squirrel brain run.  I say for you, go NC as much as possible.  Let him pursue you.  Turn your emotional back on him and let it run off as it it does not affect you.  Remember ACT AS IF.


I responded to him that I hope he doesn't get upset, but I would be getting it done today as planned.  No response.  This is typical  When he doesn't want to address something, he just doesn't answer back via text.  If you are talking to him.   He goes silent.

Please don't ask him about any feelings.  He cannot access them right now.  Don't expect anything.  Expect nothing from the MLCer.  Stand on your own and take charge.  It is your house, own it!  They cannot process well in their fog brain.


Just like it was a business transaction.

Because for him, it is easier to keep the feelings buried so it is a business transaction.  Just say thank you and move along since he paid for the gas.  Take what you can from him with no expectations.  Not easy I know.


Is it sad that none of his actions today really brought about an emotional reaction?

Sad yes.  Be once again he cannot access those emotions right now that are buried in his fog.  He is doing things right now out of guilt. 


Right now I only hope and pray that he continues he journey and deals with he demons and heals as quickly as possible.  Would love to see him happy again!  I know I can't help him but I need to make sure I don't interfere with his quest either.  That is my biggest fear right now.  I do something that causes a pause or regression in his journey.

I think we as LBS all hope that our MLCers don't stop in the tunnel and deal with their issues.  You might hear some clarity every now and then to how they are not sure on the path they have chosen.  I heard this from my MLCer Crisis Queen one day saying she did not know how she got US into this mess.  Just listen, and keep that mantra going of: "I am sorry you feel that way".  Sure we all want to see our MLCers happy, and yes THEY must do the work to find the happiness within themselves.  No, you can't help him as much as you would like to.  When you are not sure what to do, do nothing or come here and post.  Most of the time, just live your life for you.  He is living his life for him and let him firetruck it up.  Keep your head up and stay strong.

~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 06:35:24 AM »
Hey Sampsed,
Welcome to this amazing place. For a Newbie you are in such an amazing place. My first months I was a total basket case in shock and denial and utter despair.
It’s kind of funny that your H complained you didn’t cook enough but now keeps coming over for left overs.

Does his family know that he left you? Just wondering as he entertains them at your house.
I’m not sure I would be comfortable with him using my house as his entertainment pad.
He made his choice, so if he wants people over, he can have them over at his new residence with OW.

And please don’t fall for the line that he is living with OW because it helps her financially.
Obviously she was fine before he came along.

Please, please, please do not ask him what else you can change about you. You need to change for you - to make you a happier person. Do not change for him.

Post here as often as you want to. Texts I wanted to send to my H i posted here instead.
This place was and still is my lifeline.



Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 07:45:29 AM »
Thanks again for all the info, support and clarifications.  I am learning a lot for sure.

Just some feedback:

MOC - When I said it provoked no emotion....I meant I didn't have an emotional reaction.   I went to the gas station not expecting anything more and using up all our credits so we didn't loose them back to the gas provider.   When I left, it went as I thought it would  I didn't get upset or cry or angry.   Days and weeks ago I would have cried all the way home.  Honestly, I was happy he called and agreed to jointly use the gas points.   If not, one of us would have used them and forfeited a portion and that would have been more upsetting given that gas went up 10 cents yesterday!

Schratz66 -   Yes his family is well aware that he left me.   That is all I know...I don't know what his parents know and it is not my place to tell them.  They are elderly and have loved me for years so I will continue to assist them when I can.  He is not in a position to want to help them right now.  He has been distancing himself from them for years.  His sister was their primary caregiver and she just left for Fl until spring and his brother just moved in to their home to help for now.  He agreed to stay there for 6 mos or until he finds a job that may take him out of the area.   I will continue to help them when I can.  Like inviting them for holidays so they are not alone or taking them to see their great grandchildren.   My MIL does not understand why this is happening and she is upset by it.   

As for helping her financially....I know it is just an excuse.   She has never ever had a long term relationship in her life and she is 50 years old.   Three failed marriages.  Known to have suffered physical abuse and drug abuse in the past and reportedly very free user of alcohol.   Sadly, she cried to my parents about 15 years ago and my parents took pity and tried to help her out of a bad situation.  She took advantage of them.   I believe she is doing the same with my H right now.   Crying the blues and he has such a good and big heart that he allowed himself to be sucked into her situation.   My H has admitted to others (not to me) that she is a good woman but he won't say if he loves her or if it is just lust.  He told the same people that he doesn't know if there is a future there or not.  He can take her or leave her and right now he is happy there with her but if she gives him crap, he dosn't have to put up with it.   One time he is moving with her when she sells her house and move and the next minute he is going his own way.

He told me that she is a good person but he knows that one of these days he needs to go out on his own.  I support that 100%.   He really needs to be on his own to figure $h!te out.  Without contacting either of us.   Right now he just seems too weak to do that.   That is what is so odd.....he was never a weak person who needed to lean on anyone.... not even me.   Now he can't leave her  YET.


I promise everyone I will not ask him for info on me.   I have read and learned and realize that I wouldn't get an accurate answer anyhow.   LOL

Right now I am trying to work on the detach, let go and surrender.   This is all confusing to me.   I think I understand it but here is my take on it...please correct me if I have it all wrong:

I need to let go emotionally.  Learn to not react to things he says and does.  Like yesterday when he changed plans...I didn't allow it to upset me.  I still pursued my plans and got my stuff done.   I know I don't have this down, but I am getting pretty good about just listening and taking from the conversations what I need and letting the rest go.

While emotionally remaining neutral, I can still at this time have contact and support him as needed through contact that he initiates.  We can talk, text and visit.  I just need to let him start all of this....correct?  I just need to make sure these touch and goes do not violate anything that I am not comfortable with and set up these boundaries as needed to keep me physcially and emotionally safe and sound.  i.e.  let me know in advance when you are coming to the house and don't bring guests like we already talked about.  Also he told me 3 times to date and find someone else and I told him 3 times I had no intention of doing that.  After the 3rd time, I told him i was tired of hearing it and he needed to understand that dating would be my choice and at this time I have no need for a man in my life plus my concentration is on taking care of me and I didn't need to date someone to do that.  I asked him to stop encouraging me to date and he agreed and thus far has respected my wishes and has not brought it up again.

Now what I need help with is understanding Monster  To me this describes a mean and nasty person.   Thus far, I have not seen this from H.   I have seen guilt, shame, quietness and avoidance. Big time avoidance.  He is not going out and tothe parties/bars from what I have seen.  He actually told a friend that he won't go out with the OW around here.  We are in a small town and we are both well know and he said he won't disrespect me by taking her out here locally.
 He has bragged to my sister that he is being pursued by other women but he is not going to be a $l*t and sleep around.  (little bit of an oxymoron)   He is drinking but does it at home as he has always done.  He just seems to be doing more of it on a regular basis.  He can't afford a DUI.  He has a CDL and that is his new career at stake.   He still uses some common sense.    Will I know if Monster comes out?  Will it be a mean, nasty version of H or could it manifest in another way?

Any info and advice is highly appreciated as I try to navigate this new adventure!   Thanks!   D

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 08:05:40 AM »
I haven't had a lot of direct Monster (benefit of a passive-aggressive avoiding silent vanisher  :)) but I think with the 'quiet' ones...Monster comes out when you put pressure on them to deal with reality they don't want to, or if you challenge their feeling of control by saying no to something or a boundary they don't like. And sometimes Monster is more indirect...petty things they do rather than what they say.

My STBXH went into Monster by text last year when, after he announced 'divorce is the only option', I asked him about furniture/house stuff...he turned into loopy ranting text man for about a month (about 9 months post BD). Then another version 12 months post-BD, again about removing his possessions from the house, and he stole my watch. And indirect raging Monster threw the £3k watch in the Thames about 15 months post-BD (he's ashamed now but says he felt 'angry at me' after seeing his L to file for divorce  ::)). And quite a lot of indirect Monster in the first 6 months of the divorce process, so 15-20 months post BD maybe? It always felt to me that Monster was a combo of rage and self-pity, and came out when me or circumstances rubbed his nose in the practical reality of the consequences, if that makes sense.

Hope that helps, samp x
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2017, 05:21:47 PM »
H came to watch football today and visit with D and grandson.   He seemed almost normal.  He was still very attentive on playing games on his phone and watched some of the football game and occassionally caught the grandson in some of his antics.  Just content to sit in the lazy boy and chill.  He was not drinking today...he stuck to water and he didn't text.  Just played games.

He did notice some small decorative changes around the house and actually approved of them.    I was impressed that he picked up on them.

When he was leaving, he grabbed the garbage and recycling and took it to the bins for me so I didn't have to go out in the cold to do it.  He also wanted fresh cans for when company comes tomorrow.    He also knows that all of the family on both our sides was invited over tomorrow.  He wanted to know when food was going to be served.   I informed him...then I also told him my parents would be there and he said ok.  He has been avoiding them.   As he was leaving he said he would be back tomorrow for pork and kraut sometime during the day.  He also told me to heat up the basement living room so we have enough room for everyone to sit and watch parades/football/etc.   Lastly he walked out the door said   Luv ya and hopped in his car and took off.  Later he sent a text thanking me for having him and telling me he would wear the right shoes to finish putting away the christmas decorations that have to go to the outside shed.

I am doing very well.   I am learning quickly to expect the unexpected from him and just roll with it.  So far I have been very good at controling my emotions in front of him.  He has only seen me cry 2 times.   One was the day of BD when I was in shock.   The other was a day I shared some personal health info with him at the advise of my therapist.  She feels that I was in a depression prior to the start of H's MLC.     We were both so self absorbed that we didn't take notice to each others pain.    I knew I was going to cry that day and I prepared him and told him to just listen to my words and not even look at me if he couldn't handle my tears.  He listened that day and confirmed some things along my timeline.  I was able to apologize and atone for the errors in myself I recognized.   He accepted it.   Now I hope that one day he can find the same peace that I found within myself and that peace will help me move forward.

Thanks everyone and have a Happy and Blessed 2018.   D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 05:28:23 PM »
Good day until tonight.  Now I am confused.

I had the famiiles over today.  Most people arrived around noon to eat.  H arrived around 250.  He said Hi to my dad but avoided him.  Talked to my Bro in Law.  When everyone left he stayed for an hour.  Watched some football and we talked about safe topics.  At one time, he offered to get me the code for the gym at his old work place.  It is still available to be used by retired employees and their families.   He told me if I get questioned by anyone to just tell them your husband is retired from there.   Shock...he referred to himself as my husband.    We talked about an issue we are having with the bathroom door.  He said something about me replacing the door with the barn door we had talked about in the past.  I replied to him....do you think WE should still go ahead with those plans and he replied YES. 

He was picking on my about having saggy pants due to my weight loss while we put away the Christmas decorations too.

When he left, he asked for a hug and gave me a peck on the cheek.  He then told me he was thinking about getting another vehicle before the end of the month because he feels like he is driving junk and neither of us deserve to drive junk.  I used to work at a dealership so I offered my services if he needed help shopping.  I told him he had to follow his instincts and trust himself to do the right things when buying another vehicle.  I validated him by saying he had to do what was in best interest.

He hopped in the car and as he was closing the door, he said luv u and drove off.

Later he text me the code to get to the gym and told me to call him in the morning and he would help me
getting in the door as it is tricky until you get the hang of it.    He let me know that he had gotten called into work tomorrow and gave me his schedule and destination and then said good night.

A tad later my sister let me know that he was texting her while he was texting me.  He told her we are just friends and he can never forgive me for something that happened back in 1991.   Our son was born in 1991....he told me that shortly after S was born that I told him to not touch me and that I coudln't stand him touching me.  He says he has never forgiven me for it.  I don't understand this.  For one thing, my therapist told me I was most likely in a postpartum depression based on how things were described to her.   Second, I don't ever recall saying his   but I can not confirm or deny...it was just way too long ago.   Since that time, we had touched and been intimate many times...including multiple times while he was having the affair based on the time line he provided.   In the last few years, he has struggled with LOW T so things were not once as they used to be but we still had intimate moments and shared love and loving touches.  Why is it that I am only now just hearing of this

I just don't get it....is this really MLC or is he just that unhappy and has held it in for years and is only now letting it go.  That is what he told my sister. 

Per him   "I love your dad, and your mom and 30 year's plus is a lot but it's the best thing for us both, and there are things that you and others don't need to know and I can't let go of,,, but I stayed for my kids and they are both on good places there life's and it's time for me to be happy and for D (me) to find herself again"

I just don't get it.   What am I to think?

 He says he never told me I was making him unhappy because he didn't want the drama or fights that would come with it.  My therapists (who met with him 2 times) said he is a conflict avoider.

I thought things were going great and then he tells her this while at the same time texting me and helping me get free access to the gym and sharing schedules and just chatting in general.   He shared this with her and didn't share any of this with me.   Of course, I am sure my sister was prodding him with questions and he was providing info to her. 
Is this an mlc affair or an exit affair just so he could get rid of me.
  If he wanted rid of me and I make him so unhappy, why is he now coming back to visit and talking and texting and opening up communication again after the first 3 weeks of no communication?

I just don't know what to think  Confusion is starting all over again.   I was sure I was on the right path following everyone's advice.   Now I don't know.  Is it possible he was just unhappy all these years even though he never showed it until now?
 If he was that unhappy..how did he not show it and be miserable?    Prior to him starting the affair, we were in a pretty good place.   Only a few months prior to the BD did I take notice to him not being as happy, starting to drink a tad more and sitting around playing video games more.  It was the end of summer and he was suffering from gout pain and that is why I just wrote things off as him being moodier than normal.   Winter coming on and it is his least favoirte season, gout flare ups putting him in pain....ugh... Help please.....Am I crazy or is this still MLC?
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online bluerose

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2018, 06:24:05 PM »
   Your not crazy. We all go back and forth about it really being mlc or if they were really unhappy for all these years. What does your gut tell you?

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2018, 06:27:15 PM »
I thought for sure he was mlc but now I wonder. If he had been unhappy for last 16 years plus he did a great job of covering it up
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 01:18:25 AM »

A tad later my sister let me know that he was texting her while he was texting me.  He told her we are just friends and he can never forgive me for something that happened back in 1991.   

I just don't get it....is this really MLC or is he just that unhappy and has held it in for years and is only now letting it go.  That is what he told my sister. 

Per him   "I love your dad, and your mom and 30 year's plus is a lot but it's the best thing for us both, and there are things that you and others don't need to know and I can't let go of,,, but I stayed for my kids and they are both on good places there life's and it's time for me to be happy and for D (me) to find herself again"

I just don't get it.   What am I to think?

Is this an mlc affair or an exit affair just so he could get rid of me.
  If he wanted rid of me and I make him so unhappy, why is he now coming back to visit and talking and texting and opening up communication again after the first 3 weeks of no communication?

I just don't know what to think  Confusion is starting all over again.  Am I crazy or is this still MLC?

You're not crazy. We all doubt it. As bluenose says, detach enough to trust you logic and gut instinct. You're confused because IT MAKES NO SENSE...and it makes no sense because YOUR H IS IN CRISIS AND EMOTIONALLY DISORDERED. He probably does mean what he's saying and believe it to be true right now. Others might believe what he says too. And he has to justify his actions somehow, right? But just because he says it does not make it true or mean that YOU should believe it.

And you might need to set up a boundary with your sister on what she should/shouldn't tell you or what you will/won't discuss with her maybe? Part of the LBS challenge is protecting our sanity from the bats$it crazy stuff...observe it but don't let it in. And seriously...who blows up their life and changes their character on the basis of something that happened 16 years ago???
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online OldPilot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2018, 09:04:05 AM »
I thought for sure he was mlc but now I wonder. If he had been unhappy for last 16 years plus he did a great job of covering it up
It really does not matter if he is in MLC or not for what YOU DO.
The advice for the LBS is still the same.

So what if he is permanently depressed?
What are you going to do differently?

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2018, 01:23:38 PM »
First of all, thank you everyone for talking me down off the emotional, confusion ledge.   You are right.   I would not walk out on our marriage because H upset me 15 to 20 years ago.  If things would have gotten that bad, then if I was going to leave, it would have been a true separation while we work on things.  I would never have left him for someone else and moved in with someone I had only been involved with for a few months.  That is me.   Him......I don't think this is normal  Not at all but I lost my bearing and left emotions get the best of me and I started to assume responsility again for something I can't say for sure I did.  I was in self pity mode and doubting myself.

Met with my therapist today.  She is telling me to plan on H never coming back.  That is what H told her and per her H's action show he has no intention of ever trying to reconcile.  She advised me to GAL (which I have been doing) and to cut off communication unless it was in regards to family. She said I already lost him and I need to cut him loose and not be there for him.  Why is he visiting?  Why does he want to be friends and then leaves to go sleep with her?   Why can't he live on his own and work on our marriage?  He has no intention of doing that.  He is with the OW as a convenience to get rid of me.    She said he has issues and that is why he had the affair and why he moved out.  In his mind the marriage is over forever.  She does not see his contacts as anything other than friendship.  She was brutally honest with me.  I know she is only looking out for me...but what she is advising is contradictory of what is advised by RCR and the info on Clinging Boomerangs.  I asked about a midlife crisis and she said he is being selfish but she doesn't see a crisis.  She sees issues that he has and only he can deal with them.  She has only sat with him 2 times.   1 time was when we went in jointly and 1 time was when he went alone and basically told her that I am a good person and I don't deserve this but he can't forgive me and he wanted her to help me get better.   The therapists told me today that he accused me of being cold and that we have not had physical interactions for years.   That is just not the case.   She was picking out lies today but feels he is doing it to protect himself.  She advised that she feels he is throwing me under the bus to other people and in particular the OW and his other confidents.

My sister believes I should consult an attorney and move forward with legal separation.  She says I should continue to be nice until we work out all the details.  She feels that by doing this, I would be forcing him to look and see what all he has to loose.  Worse case scenerio we would have something legal in place before he looses his feelings of guilt and changes his mind about settlement.

They are both in agreement that he needs to learn how to miss me.  I asked about reassuring him that I would be there in the future.   My therapists feels if I can handle his visits and calls and texts that I can allow it but to do it in such a way that I am not expecting him to try to resume our marriage in the future.  I should not be doing it to make me feel better.  She also said that I need to not pick up when he calls.  Wait and call him back later and not to answer texts immediately either.   Let him wait.

My confusion is still there.  I need to trust my gut but I don't know enough about MLC vs unhappy marriage to tell the difference.  So many things place him in the MLC bucket and I have been sucked into that hole with him for right now.   Other things don't fit the bucket.  For example....I have not seen Monster.   He has never apologized for anything other than ruining my life.  That came on my birthday in a text that said "Happy Birthday...sorry I ruined your life"   He admitted to  avoiding issues with me and he said he didn't leave me for the OW.  He left me because I was not there for him emotionally and she was.  I didn't appreciate or respect him and the OW did.   He is being a bit selfish but he is still providing money so I can pay all the bills and take care of the household.  When I was short at Christmas, he gave me money to take care of the things I needed.   He just helped me get the free gym membership and he gave me his discount coupons for groceries that he got from his employer for the holidays.  He could have easily gave them to the OW.   He comes to visit and help with things at the house, but then he leaves and goes back to her.   He will occassionally say I love you or luv ya and occassionally give hugs when he is leaving and other times he doesn't.

I thought the reassuring was a good idea for now.  Let him know that I am willing to be totally forgiving and work with him on piecing our marriage back together over time.   Let him know I can be his friend and be his best friend again.   We have made headway on talking about things in general.   I have avoided talking about the relationship and totally avoided talking about her.   I don't want him to think I condone the affair because I don't but I am willing to allow him to be separated and find his way.  I have never come right out and said I am opposed to it except for on BD when I told him it wasn't right that he went to live with her asap.   The only issue is that he is not working on himself as long as he is with her.  She is getting most of his attention.

I think I have decided at this time to continue with the niceness and reassure him.  Now that the holidays are over....wait and see what direction he takes.   He may totally stop visits now or he may try to continue.   Only time will tell.

My heart says that although he has chosen an OW at this time, I don't think it is what he heart wants.  He has not confessed his love for her and has repeatedly said he doesn't know if there is a future or not with her.  However, he won't leave her either.   I don't think he knows what he wants.   I don't know if he will ever want me again or not.  I do know that as long as there is an OW there can never be an US.    I don't want to give up hope that there could be an us in the future if I am patient and give him time.  What is a person to do when there are so many options and they all seem to be right.
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 01:30:37 AM »
First of all, thank you everyone for talking me down off the emotional, confusion ledge....Him......I don't think this is normal  Not at all but I lost my bearing and left emotions get the best of me and I started to assume responsility again for something I can't say for sure I did.  I was in self pity mode and doubting myself.

Met with my therapist today.  She is telling me to plan on H never coming back....She advised me to GAL (which I have been doing) and to cut off communication unless it was in regards to family. She said I already lost him and I need to cut him loose and not be there for him....In his mind the marriage is over forever.  ...but what she is advising is contradictory of what is advised by RCR and the info on Clinging Boomerangs.  ...She sees issues that he has and only he can deal with them.  She has only sat with him 2 times.   

My sister believes I should consult an attorney and move forward with legal separation....forcing him to look and see what all he has to loose.  Worse case scenerio we would have something legal in place before he looses his feelings of guilt and changes his mind about settlement.

They are both in agreement that he needs to learn how to miss me.  I asked about reassuring him that I would be there in the future.   My therapists feels if I can handle his visits and calls and texts that I can allow it but to do it in such a way that I am not expecting him to try to resume our marriage in the future.  I should not be doing it to make me feel better.  She also said that I need to not pick up when he calls.  Wait and call him back later and not to answer texts immediately either.   Let him wait.

My confusion is still there.  I need to trust my gut but I don't know enough about MLC vs unhappy marriage to tell the difference. 

I thought the reassuring was a good idea for now.  Let him know that I am willing to be totally forgiving and work with him on piecing our marriage back together over time....The only issue is that he is not working on himself as long as he is with her.  She is getting most of his attention.

I think I have decided at this time to continue with the niceness and reassure him.  Now that the holidays are over....wait and see what direction he takes.   

I don't want to give up hope that there could be an us in the future if I am patient and give him time.  What is a person to do when there are so many options and they all seem to be right.

First of all, please recognise that you are still so early into a very confusing and painful situation. Of course, you're not sure what to do. Your therapist and sister are advising you...and you feel that advice conflicts with what RCR says and you're not sure if it's MLC or not.

Old Pilot says somewhere that, MLC or not, what an LBS needs to do is often the same...particularly in the early stages. I see that there are some similarities between what your sister and therapist are saying, and solid LBS advice. And I see that some of this advice goes against your wish to be nice, reassuring, patient and supportive. I'm going to suggest that the advice has some common themes though:

1. Your H is not thinking about your needs or interests, so you have to. If it's MLC, nothing you do or say will make a difference to his path...but it can make a big difference to yours...and you can avoid making it worse. If it isn't MLC, you still need to put you first. Just because you don't see monster yet doesn't mean you won't....right now, you've probably given him little to monster about...but when you start saying no or having new boundaries, you might see him react differently.

2. Detachment is key for most LBS and it's really hard to do. And harder if you have a live-in or see them a lot or get into R talks or find yourself still trying to find solutions for their problems. Your sister and therapist are both saying in different ways (and I know it's so painful to accept) that your old M is over and you need to live as if your H is never coming back. He might, he might not, you might not want him to eventually...but here is where you are, like it or not, and the future is unknown.

3. What that looks like practically is that you make choices because they are good for you WITHOUT thinking about his thoughts, feelings or responses e.g. you go out to dinner with a friend to enjoy a nice evening NOT because you want him to wonder where you are or with whom. You pick up his call because YOU need to arrange something practical NOT because you think he'll be upset if you ignore the call. 80/20 where you are the 80...and it takes most of us a while to break old partnership habits of being a team. GAL is less about partying and more about you focusing on your needs and priorities.

4. Your H has made some choices. There are real life consequences of those for him and you. His are his business. You can only manage your own. Don't go for divorce or legal separation to get him to feel or do something, but consider what is best for you. There are quite a few folks who say that securing finances early can be helpful. What do you need practically? And what do you need emotionally? Breathe, don't rush, give yourself time to think calmly. If this is MLC, it's a marathon not a sprint...and you can't 'nice' them back because it isn't about you. Having said that, you can be a calm lighthouse, stick to your own values and be friendly without being a friend as well as putting you first.

5. Standing is more than waiting. Paving the way is different from rolling out a red carpet over s$itty bits. Detachment and GAL are about you, not your H.

I hope that helps x

BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online OldPilot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2018, 03:49:02 AM »
First of all, please recognise that you are still so early into a very confusing and painful situation. Of course, you're not sure what to do. Your therapist and sister are advising you...and you feel that advice conflicts with what RCR says and you're not sure if it's MLC or not.

Old Pilot says somewhere that, MLC or not, what an LBS needs to do is often the same...particularly in the early stages. I see that there are some similarities between what your sister and therapist are saying, and solid LBS advice. And I see that some of this advice goes against your wish to be nice, reassuring, patient and supportive. I'm going to suggest that the advice has some common themes though:

1. Your H is not thinking about your needs or interests, so you have to. If it's MLC, nothing you do or say will make a difference to his path...but it can make a big difference to yours...and you can avoid making it worse. If it isn't MLC, you still need to put you first. Just because you don't see monster yet doesn't mean you won't....right now, you've probably given him little to monster about...but when you start saying no or having new boundaries, you might see him react differently.

2. Detachment is key for most LBS and it's really hard to do. And harder if you have a live-in or see them a lot or get into R talks or find yourself still trying to find solutions for their problems. Your sister and therapist are both saying in different ways (and I know it's so painful to accept) that your old M is over and you need to live as if your H is never coming back. He might, he might not, you might not want him to eventually...but here is where you are, like it or not, and the future is unknown.

3. What that looks like practically is that you make choices because they are good for you WITHOUT thinking about his thoughts, feelings or responses e.g. you go out to dinner with a friend to enjoy a nice evening NOT because you want him to wonder where you are or with whom. You pick up his call because YOU need to arrange something practical NOT because you think he'll be upset if you ignore the call. 80/20 where you are the 80...and it takes most of us a while to break old partnership habits of being a team. GAL is less about partying and more about you focusing on your needs and priorities.

4. Your H has made some choices. There are real life consequences of those for him and you. His are his business. You can only manage your own. Don't go for divorce or legal separation to get him to feel or do something, but consider what is best for you. There are quite a few folks who say that securing finances early can be helpful. What do you need practically? And what do you need emotionally? Breathe, don't rush, give yourself time to think calmly. If this is MLC, it's a marathon not a sprint...and you can't 'nice' them back because it isn't about you. Having said that, you can be a calm lighthouse, stick to your own values and be friendly without being a friend as well as putting you first.

5. Standing is more than waiting. Paving the way is different from rolling out a red carpet over s$itty bits. Detachment and GAL are about you, not your H.

I hope that helps x
Great advice!!!

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 01:58:10 PM »
Your therapist said to plan that he is not coming back. That is similar to the advice to live your life as though they are not coming back. I personally would not say to specifically plan that they are not coming back, because that seems to me that it is about believing they will not and forget about it even being a possibility (regardless of probability). Live the life you are in now and for now it is a life in which your husband is not at home. Don’t sit around waiting, keep living and get on with things that need to be done rather than putting them off until a possible future reconciliation.

Her advice to cut-off communication—No Contact—is common and as you have already seen from the differing advice, it is controversial.
I have a few articles on No Contact:
No Contact
No Contact: Clearing Up the Confusion
No Contact: More About Contact Limitations
The No Contact Boundary: Beware


Basically, I am extremely wary of overusing No Contact in the beginning—which is most definitely where you are. I used it sparsely in the beginning and only because I needed space to continue my healing—so it benefited my Mirror Work and Detachment. I put a time limit on it and communicated it to my MLCer—the time limit was 4 or 6 weeks (it’s been 12+ years, so I can’t recall which specifically). I will admit that I suck at No Contact and broke it about 2 weeks before it was supposed to end.
Later in MLC the purpose for it may be very different, for now focus on how to use the tools for where you are in the journey.

Is this MLC?
You are describing MLC textbook behaviors and using them to question whether it is MLC, this is common for LBSs to do. Ex. he says he can’t forgive you for what you said 26 years ago. That is part of rewriting history and it is common. Maybe it upset him at the time—given what you said it would be understandable—not that you said something wrong given your possible state of mind. He was not being sensitive or understanding (or realizing) that and had he been, maybe (only maybe) he would not have been so sensitive and taken it personally. Who knows! You may think this is not rewriting since it happened; what he is rewriting is the affect that had on the next 26 years. He is telling you that he faked your life together and that is BS. Long Term good, strong, happy, stable… marriages don’t just end because one person has not been happy for the previous 26 years!
Of course, there is the confusion that MLCers and non-MLCers alike will deny MLC—so we can’t fairly use that is a trait of MLC!
You therapist doesn’t think he is in crisis, but acknowledges he is being selfish? How does she define being in crisis? Many and possibly most therapist dismiss MLC—some may say they believe in it, but what they believe in may be different than how we define MLC.
Forget tests and checklists and consider my definition.


Quote from: Midlife Crisis Definition
A normal life event—midlife transition—that has escalated to crisis levels of emotional and mental turmoil. Denial and attempts to avoid the transition yield crisis which manifests through avoidance, regression and depression and in the context of a marriage often includes infidelity and separation. MLCers react overtly with outward destruction; whether intentional or not, an MLCer hurts other people in significant ways.
Now consider that along with these:
Key Components of a Midlife Crisis
Depression—covert & overt
Avoidance of self-reflection
The urge to escape & abandon
Infidelity
Blaming or projecting (denial of responsibility)
Cycling mood, personality and life decisions
Time—MLC lasts a few years or more

Note that I did not say those components are something to check off, they are just common, some don’t blame or blame less, some seem more certain and don’t cycle (I do wonder of they are more Distant Contacters), most have an affair of some sort, but not all…

MLCers typically do not know why they are doing this and must fill in that blank with made-up ideas—like not being in-love with you and being mad at you for past sins—known and unknown. They meet someone else and it must be love—especially since they are willing to leave or risk their marriage. What all this means is that MLCers are not credible sources of information—at least no literal information, though what they tell you can still be revealing.
Most MLCers will deny that the affair has anything to do with their leaving…WOW, that’s quite a coincidence. Mine told me he was leaving me for her, but that is rare, most say she has nothing to do with it and personally I find that pretty absurd. She is just a symptom and not what this is about, but superficially and with what is literally happening the affair is often a major driving force for why this is happening now—and many would find someone else if it weren’t this one.


Quote
[My sister and my therapist] are both in agreement that he needs to learn how to miss me. I asked about reassuring him that I would be there in the future. My therapists feels if I can handle his visits and calls and texts that I can allow it but to do it in such a way that I am not expecting him to try to resume our marriage in the future. I should not be doing it to make me feel better.
Your therapist is not really contradicting my advice at all. I encourage contact, but I do not encourage you to be the initiator of contact—let him come to you and you get to be the responder. I also think it is extremely important that you only do this if you can handle it—as she said. And no expectations is something you need to apply now—plan for all scenarios, but do not expect.

Quote
I thought the reassuring was a good idea for now.  Let him know that I am willing to be totally forgiving and work with him on piecing our marriage back together over time.   Let him know I can be his friend and be his best friend again.   We have made headway on talking about things in general.
This can be confusing. Reassuring can be a great idea, but remember that everyone is different. Some MLCers are so set on their exit that they are not in a mindset to be wanting out, that they don’t want or need to hear about how you are Standing or forgiving, or love them or don’t want a divorce and that you will take them back someday…to some this may be like beg-n-pleading, or a sign of weakness, BUT to others it is a welcome relief—even if they did not know they wanted to hear that. Mine wanted the reassurance and so I used it—it is more likely that a Clinging Boomerang will be receptive. Either way, telling them you are Standing or that you want to reconcile or will be willing to reconcile, that you forgive… It’s not something to do more than once in a short period—it is at times acceptable to restate after a few or several months since they may think you have changed your mind. For now, let him know you are there for him, but keep the meaning vague. Instead of telling him you are willing to work on piecing your marriage back together—something that is so far out in the future to not be valid yet—just let him know that you don’t want a divorce and that you don’t feel that this is the best way to solve your problems. If he files for divorce or mentions it, you can tell him it is his divorce, not yours. Those are not things you need to repeat or hammer home, just say them once with a strong, but gentle voice.
Figure out what you want and then be consistent—if you are not consistent and are confused, he may use this to persuade you toward what you don’t want and perhaps what you don’t believe is right. If you are firm and unwavering, he may at least stop trying to convince you that his way is the best or the only way. He may not agree, but it can be an agree to disagree sort of thing. But there is a bonus to knowing what you want with strength and confidence. MLCers are confused, they don’t know what they want, they feel guilty and their world is falling apart around them. But if you appear to have it all together—strength, confidence—when your world is falling apart too, WOW what are you doing that is working. You become a credible source—he wants some of what you’ve got; you become an attractive force.

And about what Treasur said…AMAZING! Print out her post and keep it for reference.


Offline Schratz66

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 05:19:35 PM »
RCR is there a link anywhere for your story and timeline?

Sampsed,

Treasur said it all and there isn’t anything I can add.
Most therapists do not believe in MLC, but I would think at least he or she would recognize your H being in crisis. I don’t think I like her categorally saying he is gone and won’t come back. Nobody knows what happens in the future.

But for now he is gone and I know it’s hard to accept. I’m 7 months  past BD and some days I am still in denial - it all takes time.
We will never know the why the MLC do or say the things they say.

What I would suggest is to just follow your gut. Dont let him visit or come over because you think it will show him that you are standing.

Do what is best for you. If something is too painful or makes it harder on you, then set a boundary.

The only one you need to worry about right now is you.





Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2018, 11:39:54 AM »
I just wanted to offer some more support Sampsed.  I think you are doing great and getting excellent advice here. 

You have a very long marriage, and I think it's often hard to know where we end and our spouse begins.  Our lives, our spirits, home, financials are all so entangled together that it's hard to know if you are taking care of yourself or him.  Be gentle with yourself.  This is a super rough ride.  You are doing great.  Try to focus on yourself and your needs as much as you can.  Lots of love and light to you!
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2018, 03:16:50 PM »
Hello All  Thanks again for the kinds words and support.  Last couple of days have been emotionally rough for me.   I allowed my emotions to take over and I didn't focus where I needed to focus.   Today I was meeting with a client and all I could think about was H   I  left my office for an extended lunch....bawled by eyes out then picked myself up and said enough is enough.   I read and reread posts and advise on the forum and some info on the Website.   

After getting back to the office, my H stopped by to use the computer.  This i something he did daily prior to BD.   I have to sit at a computer all day long so I don't have one at home.  Tablets and phone only.  He would stop by to surf the next, do online banking shop etc.   This is only the 3rd or 4th time since BD that he actually stopped by the office.   

He did his business on the computer and then stayed to talk about 10 minutes and left.

My partner feels like H doesn't know how to communicate with her anymore.  They used to talk daily.  Since BD, he has only talked to her about 6 times and she feels like he is walking on egg shells with her. She has had to start the conversations or he would ignore her too  H was always very social and could talk to anyone about anything.  Now he suddenly can't talk to a long term friend.  I believe some of it is fear because she was cheated on and and she has a very strong opinion on the matter.   Her feelings are kick to the gonads and run away, he doesn't deserve you and don't you think for a minute that there isn't someone better out there for you.

After he left the office without a good bye...I figured I wouldn't hear from him again.  Low and behold he called a few minutes ago and wanted to talk about getting some items of our sons across the country.   We chatted a few minutes and then said good byes and he said he will call tomorrow sometime.

I am learning to keep the convos short and sweet and I am trying to be the one who cuts them off.  Tonight I had a great excuse....I had to call for oil delivery.

Yesterday was a different story.....yesterday he called in the early AM and talked for an hour.  Called back 2 hours later and talked another 15 mins.    Later in the day he tried to get my sister to go to lunch with him.   She didn't and called back later to see what he wanted.  He wanted to tell her that he can't ever forgive me and what I did was much worse than  his affair in his mind.  She offered to lunch with him next week and he declined saying he didn't want to wait until then.   LOL

Last night he was texting me tat that he found online and liked and we talked for another 30 mins.   

I am learning what a rollercoaster ride is.   He is happy and chatty one day and then today he hardly talks and is more reserved and when he called tonight he sounded like he was already for bed and that is 2 hours away.   

I can handle this and I am going to be a much better person because of it!  I know I will have some moods today and I have a great bunch of employees and friends who help me through them so he is none the wiser.

Now I am going to get a massage because I can!  No other reason that that!   

Thanks again for all your help and support!    D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline FearNot

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2018, 03:52:30 PM »
I can handle this and I am going to be a much better person because of it!  I know I will have some moods today and I have a great bunch of employees and friends who help me through them so he is none the wiser.

When you can't stand on your own lean on those around you! It's the only way. No one can do this alone. As hard as it sometimes can be to reach out, it has to be done. That is one area that I really struggle with, but am trying to get the hang of. It is so tough to be vulnerable. So glad to hear that today is a better day for you. Hang in there!! Enjoy your massage. Self care is crucial  :) ( Easier to preach it than do it  ;))Hugs!
M 46
H 39
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/17

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2018, 07:10:48 AM »
Oh it is quite the Roller coaster!  Especially in the beginning.  THey are lunatics, and if you try to make sense of it, you will drive yourself crazy.   My H laid into me one day about a week after BD (and after I had written him a letter begging him to reconsider) in a most brutally emotional way possible.  I had never ever seen him like that.  Pure venom and hate.  Two days later after a half assed apology, he wanted to hug and hold hands and be great friends, etc.  Now I know this cycling is typical, but when it happens to you and with a person you feel like you know like the back of your hand, it is truly unbelievable.  Many hugs to you and I hope you enjoyed your massage!  Continue to take care of yourself one day at a time.
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2018, 08:19:09 AM »
Sampsed,

You are doing amazing and have caught on in such a short time. Keep up the great attitude and self care. I love it.

Hugs
Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline cowgirlslayer

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2018, 10:34:48 AM »
You are doing great! These mlcers keep our heads spinning. It makes it easy for us to doubt ourselves, our decisions and even if they are in mlc!!

This board is great for bouncing off ideas and getting information.

We have all been through some form of what you are dealing with. We are all at different steps in our journeys.

Stay true to yourself and take of yourself. Your H isn't going to right now. He is incapable of it. It's not that he doesn't  - he simply can't.
M-48
H-42
D-12
Married 17 years - together 20
BD - 7/17
ILYBINILWY - 7/17
Asked for Divorce - 9/17
Plan on divorcing and selling home  - 1/18

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2018, 03:57:44 PM »
Today was another day at the amusement park.   He called this AM and I was unable to answer the phone.  I called back and he didn't answer.  Eventually he got in touch with me but we only had a few minutes to talk since I was getting ready to go to the office soon. I gave him my work schedule and let him know it had changed due to a schedule change with one of my employees.  H ended the call with a LUV YA  TTyl.

Around 1 pm he called to see if he could go to the house to let the dogs out.  I informed him I did that when I was changing offices earlier.  He replied....I'll let them out again, I need to stop by for some food.  (we have a freezer full of food that I won't eat and I want it gone before it goes bad)   In the meantime, I came home from the office and H is here driving OW vehicle.   He was talking about a new car so I thought he got one.  Nope...he had to take the Ow'S DOGS out of the house tonight while the realtor was showing it.   So OW is driving our vehicle.  Not to happy about it but I missed my chance to set the boundary about I don't want to hear anything about that other life.  Darn.

While he was here, I realized I left my glasses at the gym.  He called to find out where to pick them up at and offered for me to ride along while he went into to pick them up.   When we came back, he said he had to go and walked out the door without looking back. 

A short while later, she sent me a text of his work schedule and also wanted to know what I was doing tonight.   ( He knew I was going out again because I didn't pull all the way into the car port when we got home from the gym.)  I told him no specific plans other then running to the store. 

He chatted a few mins via text then I told him I wanted to get going.   I decided to go for a mani.   He told me to drive safe and let me know when I was home.    Per his request I did, then he also wants pics of my mani.


For the last 2 mos, he has not inquired into where I am going or what I am doing and never asked for a pic of anything pertaining to me.

It is like on big circus act after another......EXPECT the UNEXPECTED is my motto right now. 

I am not reading anything into this.   There are no positive signs as far as I am concerned...just more and more confusion.   Thus far he has been nothing but nice and it is scary because I am waiting for the Monster that everyone else seems to have to deal with. 


My concerns are what is he going to do if OW's house sells.....he told me that he didn't know where he would live or he would follow her to Missouri to live with her daughter out there or he would move to S Carolina because he can ride his HD to the beach down there.  Guess it is time to visit and attorney and get some finances in place even though he is not ready to deal with it.....thoughts?   

Thanks for listening and letting me share.  It feels good to get it out of my system. 
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2018, 03:02:50 PM »
You are doing great Sampsed!  Yes, protect your finances for sure.  Do you have access to all information?  Do you pay the bills, do you know how much is in all the accounts, etc? 

I interviewed three lawyers.  One was a free consultation and that was what it was worth.  I then had two hour long consultations for which I paid $300 per hour for basic information about our local laws with another attorney that has a good reputation.  Those were very informative and well worth it.  Finally I had a consultation with a lawyer I loved!  That cost another $300 and she does mainly "collaborative divorce" which I learned about and what I hope to do. 

So get as much information on your own personal finances if you haven't already.  And my advice is to start asking around about who is the best lawyer in your area and start thinking about getting a consultation.

 A little trick; if you meet with lawyers and decide not to go with them, your H still won't be able to hire them because they previously met with you.  So my H can't hire any of the three lawyers I met with.
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2018, 05:17:11 AM »
Journaling:

Yesterday was relatively borning.  He called in the AM and we talked.  He ended the call by saying he would call back later...then he said maybe he would talk to me later and maybe he wouldn't he didn't know.  He said Luv ya and the call was over.

I never heard back from him and I never expected to hear back from him.  I had plans and I did what I wanted to do when I wanted to do and I didn't sit around pinning for him.   I had a very nice relaxing day and got some things accomplished.

This morning he called when I was at the gym.  Actually he sent me a text to see if I was up.  He was at work and had no one to talk to so he was looking for someone to pass the time with.  When he got my auto message that I was driving he called to see where I was going and what I was doing at 5:30 am.   I kindly replied I just got the gym.  We talked for about 15 minutes until he arrived at his next destination.  Then he said....maybe I'll call you when I leave this store.   I knew he wouldn't.   By the time he was done, there would be others up and around for him to talk to and I would be of no use to him.

If he contacts me later great....it is an opportunity...if not....I have things to do today and I am not waiting around for him to call or text or stop by since it probably is not going to happen.

Visits this week were limited to one stop at the office and one stop by the house to pick up food that I didn't want to go bad.  I would never have seen him the day he came by the office if we hadn't closed early due to the weather.   He was planning on getting to the house and getting gone before I would have normally left the office.   He seems to be back to avoiding seeing me or communicating as much now that the holidays are over.

I do have an issue but right now it seems small and I don't know if I should make a mountain out of molehill or let it slide for now and wait and see if it happens again.

When he was by the house on Friday, he was driving the OW car and the OW was driving our car.   This bugs me.   If she is in an accidcent in our vehicle, we can be sued.   Also I didn't like the fact that he drove her vehicle to my home.  He could have come for food on other days or times.  Granted, he planned on me not ever finding out about it, but I came home early.

My initial thoughts are to let it go since it only happened one time.   Should it happen a 2 nd time, then I should set a boundary.   Thoughts?    Boundaries are new to me and I don't want to overuse and abuse them for small petty things.  Should I nip it in the but now or wait and see?

Response to FamilyIsMyGoal

I am aware of all the bills and the accounts.   This is something he has never ever worried about.  I did go for an initial consultation with an attorney.  I liked her and she has a great rep in the area.  She would also do a collaborative.   Right now neither of us is seeking a divorce.  In fact he is the one that went from asking for a divorce to asking for a legal separation to not talking about it at all right now.   He does not know I had a consult with an attorney yet.   One of these days I need to tell him.   I need to do it for me.  Although he can not be honest with me.  I owe it to myself to be open and honest with him.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2018, 09:23:52 AM »
Open and honest-ish, I would humbly suggest works better with bats$it MLC?

I have never lied to my STBXH and I have kept my word on agreements when he has not and been fair and acted with integrity when he has not. However, there are plenty of things I have chosen not to share. Why? Sometimes because it might initiate a convo I don't want to have or one that will be pointless or upsetting for me. Sometimes I don't want to set off a chain reaction or prefer to save my powder for a more important issue. Sometimes because I don't want to give away control over my needs/interests or be waiting for a response. Sometimes, often, because he simply isn't interested or seems capable of any POV but his own.

It makes one think quite hard about one's own purpose or intent in communication. If you don't want a divorce, and it was info-seeking and contingency-planning for you, why would you tell him? I think the golden rule is not to mention divorce or lawyers if you don't want to set that hare running in their head...unless you have decided on a course of action. So why "do you need to do it for me"? What will you gain bearing in mind that you are no longer dealing with your normal H and he won't care much about your needs or perspective?
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2018, 09:53:36 AM »
Thanks for the insight.  It gives me something more to think about.   You are absolutely right.   I know my options and unless he brings it up....I'll just work on lining things up and gathering info in case I need it later.

I have so much to learn about H now and his thought(or lack of thought) processes.   Appreciate the help in keeping me grounded and on the right course right now!     D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2018, 02:42:37 PM »
If you don't want a divorce, and it was info-seeking and contingency-planning for you, why would you tell him? I think the golden rule is not to mention divorce or lawyers if you don't want to set that hare running in their head...unless you have decided on a course of action.
YES! YES! YES!
If you don't want a divorce, don't talk about it. It's great to see a lawyer, but it's none of his business right now.


I do have an issue but right now it seems small and I don't know if I should make a mountain out of molehill or let it slide for now and wait and see if it happens again.

When he was by the house on Friday, he was driving the OW car and the OW was driving our car.   This bugs me.   If she is in an accident in our vehicle, we can be sued.   Also I didn't like the fact that he drove her vehicle to my home.  He could have come for food on other days or times.  Granted, he planned on me not ever finding out about it, but I came home early.

My initial thoughts are to let it go since it only happened one time.   Should it happen a 2 nd time, then I should set a boundary.   Thoughts?    Boundaries are new to me and I don't want to overuse and abuse them for small petty things.  Should I nip it in the but now or wait and see?
This is so familiar...but it was not the alienator's car he showed up in, it was her daughter's truck he was driving! I thought it was hilarious because he was still trying to deny that he was having a relationship with her (he told me he was going to have a relationship with her, but once it became physical he tried denial for a short while.
I ignored it. I saw it as valuable information about what was going on and left it at that.

Sure, you could drop it now and say something if he does it again or you could drop it for now and not only say something but go the extra step of adding a boundary that he is not to drive her car to your home. I would advise that you not take that extra step right now as it is showing him a button he can push to get at you. Letting him know it is rude to drive his #$@&'s car to his wife's house is one thing, but don't give him fuel he can give to Monster.

In early MLC pick your boundaries carefully-you don't want to be the rule-maker setting all sorts of rules because that may be what draws Monster out. In later MLC, yes this would be something to set a boundary against, but when I say later I am talking a few YEARS away when there is serious cake-eating going on. People think what they see in the beginning is cake-eating and it is all relative. The beginning stuff is so much less cake-eating as to not hit my radar as cake-eating after having gone through the later stuff.

Online Mortesbride

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2018, 03:03:19 PM »
In early MLC pick your boundaries carefully-you don't want to be the rule-maker setting all sorts of rules because that may be what draws Monster out. In later MLC, yes this would be something to set a boundary against, but when I say later I am talking a few YEARS away when there is serious cake-eating going on. People think what they see in the beginning is cake-eating and it is all relative. The beginning stuff is so much less cake-eating as to not hit my radar as cake-eating after having gone through the later stuff.

Can you elaborate on the difference between beginning cake eating and what you are talking about?

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2018, 03:18:23 PM »
Hello sampsed, and welcome!  I am off work for the Holidays and don't go back until Tuesday, so I've had some time on my hands and just got done reading your thread.

Lots of great advice in this thread.

Just wanted to let you know that I am reading along.  I'm sorry that you are in a place where you had to seek us out, but am glad that you did, since we are all in this situation we never wanted to be in.

You are doing great for being so newly on.  I didn't find this place until 9 months after BD, so not sure how well I did things in the beginning.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2018, 01:06:19 PM »
Journaling:

H did call back yesterday but only for a short few minutes.   Nothing today but I don't expect anything today and tomorrow.  My DIL informed us that the OW is Sat, Sun, Mon and Tues and that explains why H is not texting or calling.  H is also off Mon and Tues.   I have suspected in the past when she is around that he doesn't reach out to anyone....not even close friends and his kids.  He also doesn't take calls from most people either.

DIL had a long convo with H last week and called to infom my D of the following:
1.  He claims he left me because I didn't keep the house clean but she told him that the place he moved into is a dirty pig sty and he tried to deny it.  Home is for sale and realtor pics are not nice.
2.  He tried to blame me for our house not being clean and DIL told him to stop blaming me.
3.  He is paying the OW $100 per week rent and she is hiding the money somewhere in the house.  If OW ever upsets him enough he is going to find the money and leave her.  (a lot of trust here both ways)
4.  When he dog sat while I was away, it was the best nights sleep he had in a long time and he misses our bed.
5.  DIL wanted to know when H was going to visit S and DIL and he replied not for a long time...at least a year.   Originally we had planned on visiting our son 2 times a year while he is out of State.
6.  H has to get a new vehicle because the one he is driving now is crappy and neither of us should drive a crappy vehicle.  Here again, we had planned to drive our older Honda until it died.  Suddenly this vehicle is not good enough for him.   DIL believes it is not good enough for the OW.  We have a new Toyota and H decided to let me have it because I drive more than he does.  He only has about 4 miles a day to and from work.   All was good until H gave me the Toyota and H decided to keep the Honda.
7.  When OW is around, H will answer the phone when DIL calls but will not answer when D or S call.  While she talks to him, she can hear OW in the background being rude and snippy about who he is talking too.  When DIL says something she hears there is usually a sarcastic sound or comment directed toward DIL.
8.  S advised DIL that his father is placing the OW before him and S is to the point where he will not put up with it.  Says he doesn't need his father if he is going to be like that.  S will not play 2nd fiddle to OW.  (son knows of the OW reputation because he went to work with OW's daughter)
9.  H talked about moving to Missouri to live with the OW and her daughter and her father out there.  D will disown him if he chooses OW and her family over his own.
10.  He told DIL that he left me because I was unhealthy and also because I said something to him prior to 2001 and he should have moved out and left me way back then.
11.  H told DIL that he doesn't like our daughter because she is hard headed and gets an attitude like me.
12.  H told DIL that OW is afraid he is going to leave her and return to me.   OW doesn't know that he comes to visit and calls and texts me.  Glad he is being open with her (yes...total sarcasm  LOL)

This is all so frustrating.  H was always a family man.  Now he can't talk or text his family.  Either by his own choice or due to the OW.  He has to sneak around to do it.  My own daughther tells me she will text and it will be hours later when he responds when the OW is off.   When she is not around, then he responds right away.   I feel so terribly bad for the kids.  My grandson always adored him.  Now my D tells me grandson acts like he is afraid of him and runs away and cries when he gets too close.  I go to visit and GS charges me and plays with me the whole time.  This is what the 2 of them used to be like.

I know there is nothing I can do.  They are now grown adults who had a good relationship with H and now it is going down the tubes too.  I have tried to explain to them to not take it personally.....they are.   All I can do is be there to help and support them thru this too.

My sister is a nurse at a large local hospital and she works with someone who has worked with MLC in people before. (she has a background in one of the PHYs and interned with someone with a Doctorate and studied MLC)  When my sister was explaining what all we were going through, she pinpointed MLC before sister even asked about it.  She said it sounds like he is in a really bad one.  ( I don't know if there is a way to tell)  She warned because of his law enforcement background to keep an eye on him.   He is at higher risk for suicide (very scary)    She reiterated to sister that there is nothing we can do.   Take care of ourselves and wait for him to come around.  She also said that he keeps coming to see/call/text me he doesn't want to let go of our marriage yet but he probably doesn't even realize it.   He also warned sister to leave him alone and to quit challenging him.  She told sister that he doesn't hear you and you are wasting your time right now.   She said most of the time, they come through it and sometimes not.   Basically, everything that I have read on this site.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2018, 08:39:57 AM »
Journaling:

I overslept today and was unable to get to the gym.  The old me would have been freaked out and thought my entire day was ruined.  The new me....regrouped...I couldn't make the gym, but there was no reason why I couldn't go for a walk on the nature trail.  So that is what I did.  I hit the trail at 6:30 instead of the gym at 5:30.   I got my 3  plus mile walk in and still got to the office on time.   I just gave up my reading time this AM...that is ok.  I can read tonight!  I guess I really needed the extra 1.5 hours of sleep.

Last night was a tad rough.   Found out that H has been dissing my daughter and DIL to other people.  This is upsetting.  He loves both these gals and they can both be frustrating but he wouldn't dis them to anyone else like he has been doing.  They actually found out from each other.  I advised both of them to not cave to the drama and not take it personally.   Time will tell.  My heart breaks for my kids.   They may be grown, but they are getting stuck in something that is very hurtful to them.   My D has gone to the point where she is blocking H and won't accept calls or texts from him for now.  She is doing it for herself. 

Surprisingly, I rcvd a text from H this am.  Wished me a great day and hoped I had a good work out.   I responded to him that I walked the nature trail and I would make it a great day and I encouraged him to do something for himself today that he would enjoy.  Surprised because he is off and the OW is also off.  Typically I don't hear from H when OW is around.   From things I am finding out from others, I have to believe that the OW is very carefully monitoring him and his actions.   I find this very funny because he tells my sister that he is never going to be controlled or pinned down and yet that is possibly what the OW is doing to him.   This is the life he chose!

As for H.....I feel terrible for him.    The actions he is taking and the way he is treating family is not his typical self.   I have learned not to take it personally and I am spending all my energy on me.  I can tell a big difference in me too.  Today I stood in front of the mirror and realized I am very happy with me.   I am still over weight but I have made such changes and I can see and feel the difference.  My confidence is way up.  I am starting to really enjoy how I look and how I feel physically.   I feel the changes from the inside out.    I am positive and with less doubt as each day goes by.    I hope this is the same release that H will find once he faces his demons and deals with them.   I hate seeing him hurting, but I know he has to face this himself.   I am going to stay and support him.   I still love him with all my heart.  I know who he is now is now who he really is.

Now my question....I have been reading the distance/pursuer.    I believe in the past I was more a distance.   Going back to our first dates....H was the one who pursued me way back then.   He used to be an extrovert and always the one to be the life of the party and start and carry all social conversation.   I am more of an introvert.  Happy to attend a gathering but instead of leading a convo, I like to sit back listen and get involved only when I have something to say.   I don't need to talk...I am great at listening and responding only when needing too.

Given this info.....should I still stay the distance and let him pursue?   I think that is what I was getting.....but I also had myself a little confused.

Right now, I don't call him unless there would be an reason for me to call that couldn't wait for him to call.  I don't email him.   The majority of times, I don't text him either.  I only respond after he reaches out to me.   Is this the way I should be dealing with him at this time??????  Keep letting him pursue?????  I only respond??????

The only times I reach out to him first is for things that need dealt with.  For example, when he gets mail....I will send him a pic of the mail so he knows what is there.  Usually he tells me to open it to see if it is important or junk.  Or if there is something with the kids or the house that he needs to know about it.    Sometimes it is extremely difficult going without communication.   He was the person I shared things with for the last 34 years.   I miss being able to share things...good and bad with him.  I have to have faith that once this journey is over, he will come back and be a person that I can once again share with.  This is my hope for the future.
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Medusa

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 06:08:25 AM »
Attaching to get caught up between packing boxes!
_____________________

Married 29 years. Divorced 12/7/16.
BD March 2013
D24, S22, Canine
Moved out November 2013
Bought townhouse for him and OW December, 2014
Mediation began April, 2014, completed June, 2015; round of mediation completed August 24.
My status: done and indifferent
____________________

That's was some f*cked up sh!t! I don't ever have to do that again!

Why are you holding on to that? How is it serving you?

One does not make the trip to he!! And back without acquiring transferable skills!

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2018, 07:58:23 AM »
Journal Update:  Tuesday night I rcvd a text and a few snaps.  He never shared his work schedule like he normally does  On Wednesday am he reached out and apologized for not telling me he was taking off Wed and Thursday.  Not much more.  Last night I had to reach out to him regarding helping with the dogs today since I had an unexpected trip out of town.   He was unable to help but did reach out to his brother and he is going to help me.   We continued to text on and off for the next hour and then I told him I was gonna go and get ready for bed.   It was just a general convo.  He hoped all was well with me...he asked about the grandson eating my Chili....he told me about his aches and pains and his car troubles etc.

He advised me that his arthritis is acting up and his knees are killing him for the last 3 days.  Nothing is helping to take away the pain right now.  I know when he is in pain, he can be very grumpy and irritable.    Glad the OW is getting to deal with this side of him.  When he hurts...he only wants to sit around and not do a thing.....if she had plans for their time off, it could prove very interesting for them.   

I now have another question....how do you know when you are detaching?  From experiences, do you feel different?  I feel right now like I do not care as much about when he is gonna call or text or what kind of mood he will be in.  I am focused on just rolling with the punches as they may come.   Whatever it is, I feel like I can handle it right now.  I attribute this to my own frame of mind that nothing can now get any worse than the day of BD.   Don't get me wrong, sometimes a memory will still make me cry like a baby but I am bouncing back muck quicker.  I noticed I am laughing and smiling more and starting to get back into the swing of things with my career and putting more effort into just relaxing.   Sometimes dreams keep me up in the middle of the night but I noticed the last few nights that I was controlling them better and even when half awake I channeled my focus away from H and onto something more positive and I drifted into a better sleep faster. 

  Sometimes he seems more upbeat and sometimes more calm and subdued.   My H is still not yet monstering.  He is talking bad about other people he used to be close too (family members) but he is spreading this around to several different people.    He is no longer visiting like he did on the holidays.  He is keeping in touch pretty much daily with calls and or snaps/texts.   Sometimes they contain notes like love you or xoxo and other times not.   I don't read into any of the messages.  I know he could only be playing games.   I am concentrating on making each contact positive and reassurning for him.   Being nice and just listening to him.  Contacts are pretty much informational.   Not sharing any info other then general chit chat.   Is he still acting like a clinging boomerang or is it still too early to tell?

I am not reaching out to him for the most part.  I am letting him call and or text me.  Occasionally if I get a great sunrise/sunset pic, I do share that via snap.....sometimes he responds and sometimes not.   I have always shared these and he shares also when he gets a great sunrise or sunset pic he can snap.   I feel like I am the natural distancer....I should still allow him to pursue...correct?   I am trying to make sure I follow the process correctly.   I am confused with the distance/pursue because I am more the distancer and it talked about doing the opposite but then not doing the opposite and I have it all jumbled up in my mind now.   It is already a mess so I just want to confirm I should still allow him to initiate contact for the most part.

Look forward to hearing the different opinions!    D

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2018, 12:55:30 PM »
I don't have any expertise on the distance/pursuit, but I just wanted to say I think you are doing great!  You are my hero!  For being so new, you are detaching beautifully in my opinion. (((HUGS)))
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline Medusa

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2018, 01:07:59 PM »
It certainly does sound that you’re detaching nicely, Sampsed! You’re not pursuing (hooray!) and you say you’re not getting as upset by things. That’s detachment, it doesn’t mean yo feel differently about him; rather, you aren’t letting situations control your emotions. Your ability yo shift your focus is excellent. Lots of us had a hard time with that in the beginning!
_____________________

Married 29 years. Divorced 12/7/16.
BD March 2013
D24, S22, Canine
Moved out November 2013
Bought townhouse for him and OW December, 2014
Mediation began April, 2014, completed June, 2015; round of mediation completed August 24.
My status: done and indifferent
____________________

That's was some f*cked up sh!t! I don't ever have to do that again!

Why are you holding on to that? How is it serving you?

One does not make the trip to he!! And back without acquiring transferable skills!

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2018, 02:34:18 PM »
In early MLC pick your boundaries carefully-you don't want to be the rule-maker setting all sorts of rules because that may be what draws Monster out. In later MLC, yes this would be something to set a boundary against, but when I say later I am talking a few YEARS away when there is serious cake-eating going on. People think what they see in the beginning is cake-eating and it is all relative. The beginning stuff is so much less cake-eating as to not hit my radar as cake-eating after having gone through the later stuff.

Can you elaborate on the difference between beginning cake eating and what you are talking about?
Here are a few articles that may help. Let me know if you need me to expand or have more questions--I wrote the main cake-eating article several years ago and so I may have refined my ideas since and perhaps I need to update and explain better...or not, so let me know!

Cake-Eating
This is my original article on cake-eating--make sure to read through to the second article in the series.

Establishing Reassurance
This is the first in a two-part series. This first part does not talk about cake-eating, but I feel it is important to understand before going on to the second article of the series where cake-eating is discussed.

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2018, 09:20:04 PM »
Sampsed,

Regarding Pursuit & Distance
I understand your worry as like you, I was the Distancer. The main message is to give space and let the MLCer dictate contact, but is that a mistake if that is how ou were before?
No, not really. Prior to MLC was your being a Distancer an issue in your marriage? Long before my husband's MLC he complained that I did not do things with him and he was right. I would come home from work and head straight for my office--as a writer I did that work after hours and during the 2 years before Bomb Drop I was completing my MFA in writing. He was so excited for me to graduate so I wouldn't always be in my office; this confused me a bit because I'd been in there before I started Grad School just as much as during! I quickly realized I had been neglecting him and changed. But I did have that challenge regarding contact since I had been the Distancer originally.
It turns out that I had nothing to worry about because with a Clinging Boomerang he maintained contact. So far you have a Clinging Boomerang, so contact should not be a problem, just be open to his contacts rather than Distant. To some the act of distancing yourself gives the appearance of not caring, so your MLCer may be (have been) under the impression that you don't care about him--at least not as much as you should. Mine was shocked when I said I did not want to divorce him if he left--he thought if he wanted out, I would just be fine and agree to split up. Do what you are doing and continue to let him pursue--this should not be a problem since he is doing that.

Now about being an introvert...me too. I am an extreme introvert and I think it made Standing a bit easier for me because I was not lonely, for me the alone time was solitude and I embraced it.

Wanting to be in control and not controlled by others is a classic MLC script and you have discovered the irony: they get an alienator who controls them. This is the stuff about MLC that has always made me laugh. Some of this stuff is just so absurd that it is hilarious, so learn to laugh. Read Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward, it can help us to understand what might be going on behind the scenes in the affair.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2018, 03:10:18 AM »
Thank you everyone.  I really appreciate the info feedback and support.

H has told me he is afraid of rejection and I have always responded to his contacts and tried to show him I am there to support him.   He tells me this goes back 15 to 20 years to something he is telling me I did but something I don't recall.  I know this may be a deep fear, but I know now that he has not always allowed this supposed incident to dictate his life.  We had close contact and he was not rejected by me in those years.

 Since there has been no monster, there have been no fights....always just general chat since I have avoided asking questions, the conversations are sometimes short.  For a man who used to be able to talk the pants off the moon,  he doesn't have much to say right now sometimes.   Last night while chatting I asked what he was having for supper since it was supper time and all I got was don't know yet.   End of that convo which mostly happens very quickly  I was never a chit chatty person so right now I struggle to keep convos going and they tend to be short.  I have been trying to let him guide them and he gets to the point where there is silence so they are done.  Last night was one of these convos.   Three hours later he wished me a good night.  He wanted to know which office I was working out of today and I shared that info.  My sister wants to know why he wants this info.    I don't know.  It is no government secret so I share the info.  I responded in kind with a good night with a hugs emogi.  He wrote back Hugs.

I did buy a book on questions to ask to start convos.  I came right out and told him I want to play a question game with him.  I pick and choose out of it fun questions and when we are actually talking and there is a long pause, I pull out on of the questions to fill the space.  Last one we did was What super power would you like to have and why?  We both chose flying.   My was convenience and to save time and to get over fear of heights.  His was the same.  His was to go and see our son anytime he wanted.  I think Ty being across the country is really hurting him.  Especially now that he used his vacay time on his OW and can't/won't go to see his son next month.  That's an example of stuff.  I don't use the questions designed for deep introspection.   Another one was talking to a famous person, live or dead...and if you could be born in any other time period what would you choose?   etc

As far as distancing prior to this....I always saw it as independence.   If i wanted to do something...I did it.  I asked H if he wanted to be involved but I didn't seek him out for his opinion.   I can see where not running things by him and just making decisions was an issue for him.  I could see where he thought I was controlling.  I wasn't.   I just made up my mind and did things.   Going forward, I am working on keeping him more informed of my ideas and asking opinion.   Just like our mail box was recently wrecked.   I know he won't go shopping with me for a new one.   However, I have already determined when he visits next to get him t online shop and get his opinion on which replacement to buy.   Me being overly independent I think is not good.   I need to incorporate him into my decision process and make him realize that his opinion is very important.   At one time, he would have outwardly shared his opinion without me asking.   That is not currently my H.   I have to actively invite him to participate in things like this now and encourage him to stand up for what he desires.  I can see this as child like behavior.  I have to help him to build his confidence in his decision making abilities again....just like we did for our kids growing up. 

Is it ok to reassure him with phrases such as I am here for you,  My love is unconditional, your a good man,  stay positive-you got this, don't hesitate to reach out to me when you need me, concentrate on taking care of yourself, do something for you today, and when he puts out love yous to respond with i love you too?


Being more introverted, I have found that I don't mind solitude.   The first few weeks, I welcomed company.  Now I am good.  I actually enjoy getting home at night and getting peace and quiet after being around people all day.  It is just me and the dogs and a book.  Don't get me wrong, I will welcome back his company.  However, I am doing okay alone for now.    Before I would come home and he would be here, but looking back, I realize now he was here physically for the last six months but not emotionally.  He was happy then to sit with the tv on and spend time on his phone.  Little did I know it was texting the OW in between playing video games.   Now I find what I miss the most is someone to talk to face to face when I do get moments of weakness and want to cry.  Sometimes I just need someone to listen to me when I need to blubber out my feelings and not keep them in.  My sister is there for those self pitty modes I occassionally get into.  Usually they are triggered by a fond memory and I need 5 mins to get it out of my system and move on.

I am really concentrating on me and keeping busy.  I just purchased Louise Hay 21 days of mirror work ebook and it comes with a meditation guide too.  Gonna give it a whirl.  Also, I just started plans for a GALintines day dinner.   So far I have enlisted 3 others friends who have no valentines dates for a variety of reason.   One is in an off and on relationship, one is married but husband works, one is working on keeping a long term relationship alive after she started to deal with personal issues....and I am looking for more.   We are going out to a local restaurant on Feb 16th for an evening of fun with other ladies.   I am looking forward to it.   Will be a great distraction.

I will also be purchasing the book rcr suggested and delve into that this weekend.

Last question...my biggest fear is forgiveness....will H ever learn to forgive himself for the affair and will he be able to let go of the issue from years ago that he is holding against me?  Is this part of the tunnel travel or is this something that will have to be faced afterwards?

Thanks again everyone.  So glad I found this forum and this site.  It is really helping me with me and facing issues of myself and understanding H's issues for now.    D




BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online sachat3

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2018, 04:14:23 AM »
Hello
I really don't know how to help you with the way of advice or anything like that. My partner left my house 8 weeks ago today actually so it's all new to me too.

However j would like to say if you ever fancy a personal chat to rant rave whatever....I'm here for you!

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2018, 08:35:48 AM »
Help!  Need advise!

H just advised he was on vacation for the last week to Missouri and loved it there.  He also is in love with OW now and she treats him well.  OW is selling her house and when it sells he is moving with her to Missouri.  He needs to get away from here is what he said..   (avoidance/running)  The move would take him 14 hours from home and family.

I feel like I have been gut punched.  I have read all the articles and blogs but this is the first he admitted to loving her.  H said that OW treats him very well.  This move will take her closer to her Dad and one of her Daughters but would take H away from his entire family.   Mom/Dad still alive but in late 80's / early 90's and he is not dealing well with their aging.   His daughter and 2 grandchildren.  One of which he may never meet.  His brother and sister but they are transient anyhow.  Sister lives between FL, PA and MA and brother just returned to the area after 4 years out of the area and is looking for a job that will keep him on the road.   Son is also planning to return to this area but not for 4 to 8 years once he finishes professional school and residency.  He is currently living in AZ.

My D is extremely upset.  She has a 16 mos old and another one due in August and she feels like he is choosing her family over his own family and right now he is.  She is loosing her Dad, the man she looked up too, while at the same time being emotional from pregnancy hormones.  I have have the extra worry because her pregnancy is high risk and she is only in her first trimester.   This is a mess.

Please help me get grounded again.   I know the odds of the affair lasting are slim.  I know it could be awhile before her house sells.  I know he is in the infatuation stage.  I have been trying to be reassuring to him since he has been staying in touch via visits, text, snaps, calls.   He called me just a few minutes ago to tell me that he has a check for me from the sale of a car.   He wanted to be able to drop it off at my office.  I told him go ahead.  I wasn't there.   I left due to crying but told him it was due to my stomach ailment which he found out about earlier today.  (local bug going around)

Right now he is not telling me this stuff.  He calls my sister and tells her these things so she will tell me.   I don't let on to him that he is telling me.  It is not her place to tell me.  It is his place.  When he calls and texts I act like I don't know about these things.

So....what is everyone's advice on the best way to proceed given these circumstances?  Should I still be nice and reassuring?   The house has been on the market for 4 to 5 mos and has not yet sold due to its condition yet at the same time, someone could offer to buy it tomorrow as a project home and they could be out of here in a month.


I am open to any and all thoughts and advice based on your experiences and also how to trust the process of the MLC.   

thanks everyone!    d

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2018, 10:00:52 AM »
Sampsed,

I have some ideas, but consider what others say as well. I think your MLCer needs to know that you know about this upcoming move.
 This then gives you a better platform for Planting Seeds that are about the affair.

In the beginning, I first made sure that I worked on myself so that he looked toward me as a credible source of information. Then I carefully set about plating seeds about that nature of an extramarital affair--doomed, high conflict, controlling, jealous of spouse...
 So on one occasion, I told Chuck that I knew they fought a lot--I may have added that it was about me, but other than that I left it that simple. On what was probably a different occasion (you don't want to dump all this on at once--that would be less credible as your agenda would be more clear) I told him that affairs don't last--totally doomed. Fortunately, he did not bring up the fact that my Dad was the OM and remained married--it's rare, but does happen. My MLCer just believed me--even when he tried to deny; I spoke clearly and without emotion--like a clinician reporting stats. The emotion I did show might have been more laughter at his thoughts and actions--highlighting the absurdity. So if he said something about how they were soul mates I might have muffled a snigger or even a more clear laugh and possily followed it with a you know... that's not true you know... that's it will not last... Basically pairing it with a statement about how he knows because that comes off as a fact rather than you saying I don't think... which is something he could then refute.

You know the odds of the affair lasting are slim and you have already seen or heard about conflict--that list you wrote from post #57 showed classic alienator issues. But what he s saying and doing are classic. As you said, he is still in the in-fatuation stage and at times he really believes this is his everything. The hormones running through him are making his tastebuds more sensitive and food taste better, colors are more vibrant...everything is enhanced with a feel-good sort of glow. To him this feels like his emotions,
 but it is chemically based. The irony we might notice is that he also feels the conflict and yet those feel-good chemicals still override his inner voice that at other times might be able to overpower--but not in MLC.[

As for being able to forgive himself... I think that might be a function of your forgiveness. If he feels it from you and confidence in him from you, that can facilitate those in himself, toward himself.

Offline Medusa

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2018, 12:02:44 PM »
Sampsed, this kind of thing is, indeed, a gut punch. So prepare yourself for the worst. He might do this—plenty of others have.

I am in complete agreement with RCR about working on ourselves. This is how we survive and detach.

Remember, too, that this is what he thinks he’s got to do and MLC is not a process that can be stopped. When we can step aside and allow them to have their crisis, we gain our strength and can become a beacon to them. See, yours is boomeranging and clearly hasn’t let go. They do pay attention to us and, as RCR demonstrated, once she got herself in the right place, she could plant seeds (which worked).

So what do you do? That’s your call. Personally, I’d be nice but not necessarily reassuring. Gee, honey, it’s awesme that you’re going to move so far from your family to be with someone you’re infatuated with and treats you nice.  ::) I would certainly be nice about it but do nothing to give him the slightest belief that I aporoved in any way.

Remember, MLCers are basically children/teenagers. They want what they want and part of what they want is for us to feed their guilt. Sometimes we have to. Sometimes we do have to be a b*tc#.
_____________________

Married 29 years. Divorced 12/7/16.
BD March 2013
D24, S22, Canine
Moved out November 2013
Bought townhouse for him and OW December, 2014
Mediation began April, 2014, completed June, 2015; round of mediation completed August 24.
My status: done and indifferent
____________________

That's was some f*cked up sh!t! I don't ever have to do that again!

Why are you holding on to that? How is it serving you?

One does not make the trip to he!! And back without acquiring transferable skills!

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2018, 12:08:37 PM »
I tried to call him...he didn't answer so i sent the following texts along with his responses:

Me:  I was just told you were in Missouri this past week.  Let me say it is your life but what you do still affect me so pleae keep me in the loop of your major changes.  I need you to be upfront with me.  I am the one person in the world who loves you unconditionally and always will.  You can tell me anything anytime and I will not be judgemental.  Honestly, I don't like the separation and i believe the affair you are in is disrespectful to all three of us.  Yes....I said all 3 of us  That does not mean that think any less of you s the man I have loved for the 34 plus year.  The man I proudly call MY husband and MY best friend.  Now...

Did you go for vacation or was this fact finding and job hunting because you are preparing to move.  If you are preparing to move...we really need to settle things with an attorney.  It is an agreement separating assets and assigning responsibilities.  I really appreciate you not filing for divorce a I can not afford health insurance.  This just provs how wonderful of a man and a husband you are.  Another reason why my love for you is unconditional.   Please let me know how we should proceed.  I appreciate it.

i would prefer to talk in person.  Let me know when and where.  Love Always.....me

H:  We will talk more in person and text
Fact finding

Me:Ok  Thank you.  You are right.  We need to talk and settle things.   i love you and I will let you go as long as you know 100% in your heart and mind that this is the thing that will make you happy.    Doesn't mean I will love you any less.  I want you to be happy and if this makes you happ for now then so be it.  If you love something set it free.....you know the rest.  (and not the one about hunting it down and killing it)

Just know that statistically extramarital affairs are prone to fail.  I am your best friend talking.  Not a scorned woman like you may think.    It would be easy to be angry and nasty.  It is hard to forgive and love you thru this but it is for the better.   I will be the one to help you and support you anytime you ever need help.  I won't ever turn my back on you.  Ever.  I will always be you first real love and we gave each other 34 plus years of great memories.  Always remember the good.

Hoping to stay your bestie in the future!    Me


Please know that I was trying to avoid the legal issues but we are complicated.  Several homes and i have a business so sadly it needs to be addressed especially if he is moving many states away and in an unknown time frame.

I am not giving up my stand and I hope it doesn't sound like that and I hope I didn't say too much wrong to come across as being begging and pleading type of convo.   I said what was in my heart and I wanted him to know I don't like this but I am being supportive of him finding himself and his way.

I will continue to plant seeds and i will continue to allow him to determine how and when we will communicate.   I don't think this will have an immediate bearing on anything since the home is not yet sold and moving is not imminent.   I hope it is something he will bear in mind when the affair starts to fade and he is in need of a friend.   I do want to be the one he can rely on in the future.  This the foundation I am hoping will help to mend the fences of our marriage in the future if we have the opportunity.


Would love to hear feedback  and advice.  Right now I need to go for a walk and get all my anxiety out of my system so I can have a good night!

Thanks everyone for listening to me when things went sideways today!   
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online Mortesbride

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2018, 12:33:57 PM »
Please don't take this wrong, we all do it at some point in the beginning but you got to hear this...

From now on stop saying you love him and all that.

You told him about 6 times that you are still on the leash. He can do whatever he wants and you are going to be sitting right where he left you.

Try and keep any further discussion polite, casual, but unemotional.

Second you just fed him insults to hit you with later ''I will not be judgemental'', ''you don't think less of him as a man'', ''capitals MY = possession'', ''you said it was okay as long as it made me happy'', ''not a scorned woman''. Those can easily be turned back and flung at you during a monster fit.

''This proves how wonderful of a man and husband you are'' ...while he is having an affair and secretly moving?! He knows that statement isn't true..so it makes you look like you are faking it (lying) or in denial.

Please understand I am not saying this to upset you, I am really trying to help. But all those text told him is that even though he has snuck off, is secretly moving away, he is treating you with disrespect....that you are still basically begging him to stay in your life and you are right where he left you.

This is when it gets hard. Letting them know the door is cracked, but stop showering them with love.

A lot of advice says that we can't shorten a crisis, but we can delay it. They need to feel change...they need to feel uncomfortable...they need to feel the loss of control..or they will just keep doing what they want.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2018, 02:34:25 PM »
thank you.....I appreciate your feedback and I am not offended.    i responded out of emotion instead of sitting back and taking it all in.  I failed and I can now see where I failed.  I reacted out of emotion for sure and did it while I was basically in a melt down.   I boogered things up pretty bad didn't i?????

This weekend  I am working on the legal stuff and gonna try to wrap my head around it.   He told me he would call me tomorrow morning so I need to get my self together between now and then.  We won't talk about anything but general stuff tomorrow.   The weather, his day at work, etc.  He will be working and I won't talk about R especially while he is on the road.   Not that it would upset him, but I don't think talking at work is the right place to do things.

Thanks again for your feedback and honesty.   I am still so new and learning.  It means a lot!  I am very open minded and trying to get a grasp on all of this.  It is not easy at all!   

Keep it coming please....I will not be offended by anything anyone has to say.  I am just trying to take it all in and learn from my mistakes for the next time.   I thought I was doing grand until today.    I lost it!   

Please keep the advice and feedback coming so I can keep improving!   d
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:43:26 PM by sampsed »
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2018, 11:19:09 PM »
Sampsed...first of all, we've all done this, a moment when emotion takes over and we react or prod our MLC spouse. Some if it is probably the mindf**kery of dealing with a (not) spouse but still thinking of them as they were. The good news is that while they are in Replay, nothing we say (or text) makes a big difference to them...like one of those cartoons of someone talking to their dog and an empty speech bubble for what the dog hears! And I know you were trying to 'pave the way' and translate RCR's advice, and you are so new to this. So, it's done, don't beat yourself up, let it go....and learn from it.

I read your post but felt nervous about responding because I felt uncomfortable and didn't want to say the 'wrong' thing...but Morte, god bless her, is absolutely right. One of the simplest 'signs' when we are not yet detached is the disparity between lots of words from us and very few from them. That is what pursuer looks like - I know because I did it too! (probably why I felt uncomfortable) This version of your H is not your 'bestie'...you can be polite and 'friendly' in your interactions but he is not your friend right now. He is someone who is making choices for himself that will create financial and emotional chaos for you...so your point about 'keeping me in the loop' and 'needing to settle things with an attorney' is the tone you need, keep the rest in your head and heart but don't say it to him.

His response suggests 2 things to me (other than he's an MLC idiot planning to relocate and burn his life after an A of a few months  ::))...'fact finding' means he is planning to move and his 'text/talk' response is that he expects to control that communication and it will be more of a statement than a discussion probably.

So, your job now is to take your control back...over you, and over the things that matter. I found the only way to do that was to build a big 'calm the f**k down and think' space of time....3 hours, 3 days etc...and for me to choose when/if/how I would respond to him wanting to talk. So, because he says he will call you tomorrow morning...you are anxious and busting your bits on legal stuff...but he might not call (they lie and change their mind) and if he does, you don't have to say or do or talk about anything you're not ready to! Build in buffers...if he calls, hear him out but commit to nothing, say "I'll take some time to think about that" etc. And DO NOT talk R at all...he's running off to Missouri with an ow, there is no R to talk about now, just legal and practical stuff.

And are you looking at that kind of stuff for YOUR needs/interests or doing it thinking about BOTH of you, so accidentally tidying his bit of the mess too? Detachment is truly hard after a long M and you're still in shock...I found that I had to train my brain to go from WE to ME and HIM, and that started with detaching practically before I got even close to detaching emotionally.

Your MLC H will screw you over, blame you and make you dig your own financial grave if you let him. He isn't the man you knew and he will not keep his promises probably or priorities your interests. So, you have to prioritise your own significantly more than you think about his, if that makes sense.

Have you taken L advice? And are you following it? I think D is not currently on the table, more a legal separation? Respect your H enough to see it is his crisis, his mess and his monkeys. Respect yourself enough to see that you can't help him, he doesn't want your support but you are collateral damage and you need to help yourself. Give him less of yourself so you can give yourself more.

Please don't beat yourself up though...truly we all fall over as we learn this...and it is hard, really hard. It is possible to treat an MLC spouse with calm grace...and to love them silently...but only with some detachment. It took me about 18 months...and a series of WTF MLC horrors...to get there. What a slow learner, right!  ::)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:22:59 PM by Treasur »
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Rollercoasterider

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2018, 11:25:38 PM »
You did not I boogered things up at all. What you did was normal and nothing to worry about. If you were to keep doing it with every conversation, that would be different.
It is so common for an LBS to do something that they think will mess things up totally--what comes to mind is an all-out screaming vent at their MLCer--maybe it is more likely with Clinging Boomerangs, but often the MLCer doesn't even recall the argument (or at least the emotions) within a day or so.
You are going to mess up plenty of times, but likely not in a big way. The STanding Actions are a lab experiment that work differently with each MLCer and you need to try things out and gauge the reaction/response within your own situation.

I did notice a few things in that text.
First Mortesbride is right. I felt I could sense a light tone of reassurance with your I love you's but she is right that there were too many and an MLCer will not interpret such things as I will. I also thought you got the message that you love him in other ways that felt more pushy ex. Doesn't mean I will love you any less. Though it was good that you made light of the set something free cliche.

Telling him or even asking him to keep you in the loop is going to smack of butting into his life which he may interpret as control or just as an obstacle to his goals or just an invasion of privacy, so avoid doing that. If he had been keeping you in the loop and you praised or thanked him for it, that would be more covert.

...i believe the affair you are in is disrespectful
In my previous post I mentioned we know type of statements. This is in contrast to saying I [ithink[/i] or I believe. By saying that you believe the affair is disrespectful, you are not actually making an irrefutable hard factual statement that it is
disrespectful, you are merely offering you personal opinion. Let's face it, you already know that he knows he is being disrespectful, os it's not even a stretch to make the statement that he knows this.  But you can make you/we both know statements for things that are less clear as well--they work like a form of hypnosis because they may slip past the MLCers detectors and into their subconscious where they are seeds that grow.

Complete agreement with Mortesbride regarding the wonderful man statement. That was just laying it on too thick. Though he may be a wonderful man, he is not presently being a wonderful man and as Mortesbride said, he knows that. I've read your posts here and don't think you are in denial at all, saying that sort of thing may certainly make you seem like you are in denial, willing to do anything (rather than what it takes) including lay down on the doormat to get him to come home. I know that is not you, but how we say what we say is very important.

What I really felt was that this was just too much at once--or in a series. Say some of these things over time and when you try to build him up, do it in a way that is honest. I believe in you stands on its own as a statement, you can weaken it with specifics--and how you did it was not honest since he's not being wonderful. Don't tell him things like you trust his judgment or that you will let him go if he's certain this will make him happy. Letting Go is the next stage of release after detachment; you need to let-go and that does not mean you are changing your mind about what he's doing being wrong or what you want or about Standing.
 It often becomes an agree to disagree sort of thing--even when you don't agree to it...you at least accept that you each are in different places regarding what you think needs to be done.

Statistically affairs are know to fail
Tru, but people in in-fatuation think they are going to be the exception--and since exceptions exist, they may be right and can convince themselves. Keep it to I/you/We both know type of statements. Citing stats actually feels more desperate than really knowing yourself and so it reveals your personal agenda.

This really is a tightrope act. Be supportive of him by believing in him--and often you will show this through actions without saying it. You are not being supportive when what you are really doing is supporting the infidelity--though you package it by saying you support his choices. Do you really? Being there for someone when they need you does not have to mean you are being supportive of the stupid things they are doing. Support the person, the individual, that core person within.
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Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2018, 11:38:29 PM »
One of the things that (slowly) occurred to me as I stumbled along, about the difference between loving the person and hating their behaviour, was about Respect.

My H has/had the right to make choices for himself, which includes the right to completely destroy his own life and make really rubbish choices...respecting him is about me stepping back enough to let him carry his own consequences, and learn from them. Or not. I might be 'right' about my opinion of what he should do; I might not...but respect is seeing that it isn't my opinion that counts most. It's hard to respect someone who looks like a self-destructive idiot and who doesn't show you respect...but it is a gift of detachment too.

Respecting me though is also about carrying my own monkeys, taking responsibility for my own actions and consequences...blaming my H for some things he has done to damage me or steal or lie, sure, but not for how I feel about it or what I do about it.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2018, 11:46:42 PM »
Hello sampsed...Treasur, MB and RCR are giving you some great advice!

I just wanted to encourage you.  My MLCer moved several States away for a girl and it literally lasted 1 month.  Things fell apart pretty quickly and he moved back here again as fast as he possibly could.

M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2018, 12:14:14 AM »
And, of course, the 'believe nothing they say and only 50% of what they do' principle....the gap between MLC cup and lip is a big one.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2018, 11:54:38 AM »
Thank you everyone.  I am taking everything to heart and I try to read and re read several times for things to settle into my crazy brain right now.   I take no offense to anything said.  I felt it was all out of care and concern....again....thank you for all of it.

Today so far has been 3 phonecalls and a text.  1st one was 42 minutes early this am.   We were talking about weather, his trip today, D's pregnancy and tests she is going for etc.   Suddenly in the middle of me telling him how bad the wind was blowing the snow off the roof, he says.....I wanted and should have told you about Missouri but I didn't want you to worry and I know you would have worried.   I responded calmly by saying...I don't think we should talk about this while you are driving.  He said it won't upset me.   I then said, we have to assume the worse...you are moving and we need to get things settled with an attorney.  He then said (my name)  I don't know what I am doing yet.  I am being honest with you.  I really don't know.   I told your sister stuff yesterday because she was bugging me....so I just told her all kinds of stuff to let me alone.       In my mind.....all I could think was your lips are moving so you are lying.   I allowed him to finish and then told him to ignore my sister.  He can block her if he doesn't want to talk/text her.    Per my sister...he starts half the conversations.   She blocked him on her phone yesterday too.    Those 2 tend to put more stress on me than everyone else combined.   My sister has promised no more conversations with him at all.   After this we continued to talk until his first stop.   At the end of the convo....he almost said Love you when he was getting ready to hand up.   He didn't so I told him to have a good day and he said he would try to call on his way home.

Surprisingly, he called again....this time we talked for 39 minutes while he was between stores.   Just general stuff.

On his way home he called again.  This one was due to someone we both knew locally passing away.   He thought I knew about it already and wanted to know if I knew what had happened and when services were.  I didn't.  I hadn't been on the computer all morning to get any news.  Our grandson was here so he got to talk to him a few mins.  I also shared some pics of him while he was here with my D's permission.   Once again when ending the call, he seemed to almost say love you but stopped himself.  I told him to have a good day and he responded...as soon as I get my schedule for tomorrow I text you.  I said ok.

He said something today and this is the 3rd time he has said it and it is not normal for him to say it.   In response to something he said   It is what it is......almost like....I can't do anything about it so whatever.   He said this today pertaining to D being upset with not calling and checking in last week to see grandson.   A week or 2 ago he said it in regards to us being separated.   He said   it is what it is.   I don't recall what the 1st time was about.   He was never one to just accept status quo if he felt passionate about something. It almost felt when he said it today that he was giving up on the relationship with D.   When he said it in regards to the separation, it was almost like he didn't care about us being separated and there was nothing he could do about it.    I know it may be none of that....that was just my gut feeling and I kept those feelings to myself.  Just making note now of when that statement happens, he tone (which was very flat) and what it was in regards too.

Two hours later...he shared his schedule via text. When he does this, I thank him and then share my schedule for the following day with him too.   This is about 7 hours earlier than he normally shares.  Typically he waits until the end of the night to share if he shares it at all.  Almost feels like he is waiting for me to ask for it. 

Today he seemed diifferent.  Almost the old H.  Convos were smooth and natural and flowed.  He actually showed concern and asked questions about me and D and Grandson and d'S pregnancy issues.   He told me they are texting because D currently has a problem with him.  I told him....at least you are texting and working on it and let it go at that.  This is where he dropped the line....it is what it is.

Scares me because I know this is only temporary.  Today I felt like there was an ulterior motive to it and that motive was to get me to let my guard down.   I am not.   I have put up a temporary wall around myself right now until I can get myself more detached from everything.   

Yesterday realization really hit home and I know what I have to do now.  It is almost providing closure because I know what has to be done now.  I need to prepare myself for him moving out of State and I need to push forward with the legal issues even though I was trying to let them on the back burner and wait and not bring them up to him.  Should he up and move, I need to have POA's  and assignment of collateral in place so I can continue to take care of the finances.  Due to almost everything being joint, i am still taking care of all the bills so I know they are paid.   I have put holds on the credit card accounts for right now.   I can not change the locks to the house yet and I can not remove his name from the joint accounts but we have auto deposit so I move all the money to another account as soon as it desposited and I am paying bills from the 2nd account now.  He doesn't have a check book and there are no debit cards for our joint accounts.   As for my business accounts....they require 2 signatures for everything and I have all the checks and they are kept in the safe at my office.   So I am fairly confident in the money situation for now.   He may be spending all his money, but he has not touched any of our money set aside for bills and I have been squirrling cash away in my parents safe in case there is ever an issue and I need money fast. 

I find it very funny that a man who is planning on quiting his job and moving in the future is not putting any money back for the move.  Additionally, he wants another vehicle and needs a downpayment and he is not putting money away from that right now either.   He used to be really good at squirrling money away for things he wanted to do.  It was nothing for him to save $1000 a month to have a nest egg or for a purchase.   When our son moved x country he gave them $4000 to help with their expense and purchase of furniture there.   Not so right now.  I know this because his account he uses is also joint with my name first so his monthly statement comes to me and at the end of each month he only ever has about $200 in his savings account.  What he puts in it each week, he moves it back to his checking and spends it....most of the time it appears to go to gambling since the withdrawls are all made at the places with the slot machines are located.   Maybe he will hit it big one of these days.   LOL 

As for me...I have my wits about me today.  I have my brain working again vs my emotions and I feel much much better at tackling things.  I learned a valuable lesson yesterday.  Don't act on emotions   Wait....wait a day or 2 or 3 and then respond instead of reacting.   Write it...read it...edit it....submit here for review and corrections from those with experience.    I reacted and I am learning from it.   I will get this down eventually.  Hopefully sooner than later!   

Take care everyone.  I have a busy afternoon planned.  I gotta do some on line price comparison for some home improvements I want to do plus get a mail box to replace MY damaged one.   I have 5 episodes of knightfall to watch on this cold snowy day and I want to get a walk in sometime before the sun goes down.    Check in with you all tomorrow!    8)

Thanks for all your feedback!  Love it!    D
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Treasur

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2018, 12:55:53 PM »
Sam...look at that for a comeback  :)  your head is showing you all the sensible things to do and you're doing them.

It is what it is...for me has been a phrase to drag myself into acceptance of what I can't change or control, a healthy tough thing. Reading it as you described how your H said it...and you know him best and his tone of voice...it doesn't sound as if he was trying to manipulate or play you. It sounds the voice of depression, as if he can do nothing but endure how things/he is right now, as if he feels like a helpless victim of something. It isn't the voice of a man in love skipping off happily into a Missouri sunset.

You must trust your own instincts - and 100% still look after your own interests financially - but my gut says to go slow on the assumptions you're making or the plans you think he's making. Ease back, try to not be part of the pressure, go slow and as still as you can. He has no plan, just a compulsion to run and hide I suspect.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2018, 07:16:32 AM »
I am more than confused as ever...

He is moving...it doesn't sound a man that is moving
He is in love with the OW....it doesn't sound like a man riding off happily
Do what you have to do to protect you....slow down

Here is part of a text my D shared with me from H:

I want to be part of my grandchildrens lives.  I know this whole thing is hard on you and it's not easy for me.  I know things will never be the same and it is what it is.  I'm not overly proud of it because I don't like hurting people I love.  But your mom and I both needed this.  And it's a new chapter in both our lives.  It's up to you if you allow me to be part of yours.  And posting $h!te on instagram it isn't a way to get my attention and keep me in your life.  Don't post $h!te for the world to see.  If you have a problem with me text or call.

This to her doesn't sound like a man who is ever considering a possible comeback....ever.  At least not to me.

Things in bold are things he has been repeating.   As for my D and her issues...since this all started H has been sporadic in answering calls and/or responding to texts from her.  When he left D was temporarily living with us so she has been emotionally involved since the very beginning.  he didn't communicate or visit for or the grandson for the first 3 to 4 weeks after BD.  That really hurt her.  She felt abandoned and then on top of it for the first month she saw me running through my emotions.

Last night H sent me a video on Instagram.  I don't use instragram and I do not really understand it.  I sent him a text stating I couldn't open it because I don't know how to use instagram and he knows this.  He wrote back and said that it is ok, he will explain it to me sometime.   A little later he sent a text that said good night sleep tight.   I missed it because I had already dozed off.  When he does this, my typical response is good night.  Hope you sleep well also.

As for today so far.....H called this am and we spoke for 30 mins.  About a week ago I mentioned I needed my roots touched up.  Today he asked when I wanted it done and stated he might be available one day this week  to come over and touch up my roots.   I was sort of shocked and said ok.   Will see if he actually follows through.  There was no mention of calling again later and I don't look forward to hearing from him.   I have said it before, the calls sometimes feel like it is an obligatory call just to touch base.   No real feel to the calls most of the time.  Other times I feel like he only calls because no one else is available.  He has called everyone else on the list and I am the last one he can call since no one is available.  Many times on these calls, when someone else calls, he disconnects to talk to them.   Today was one of those days.  He seemed more distant, compared to yesterday.

He wanted to know when i was exercising today.  I couldn't tell him at the time, so I sent him a text later advising him when I planned to head out.  He gave me a thumbs up

Also near the end of the call, he said...I am at my store..I gotta go Babe.  I was again shocked.  He has not used any terms  of endearment since BD.  He has not hardly used any of my nicknames either.  He has been referring to me by my real name only.  Occasionally in a text he would use a pet name....but that only started in the last 3 weeks and is not consistent.

I just don't know what to believe right now.   I think it is my brain telling me to not believe aka not have expectations that he could be opening up his thought processes and reconsidering us.   Honestly, I feel like I am getting played.  Like he is trying just enough to stay in touch but I don't know what his game is.  I don't get it.

   He seems to tell everyone else something different than what he tells me.  He tells others:   He loves her, He  loves Missouri and is moving there, this is a new chapter in his life, things will never be the same, he is never returning to me,  He needs to get away from here, he can't do things here because of his respect for me (meaning he can't take her out to local restaurants and haunts), he wants to retire in S Carolina, I don't want a divorce cuz I don't want her to loose healthcare.   

He tells me...I honestly don't know what I want,  if I ever come back it will be sometime in the future after I take care of me,  there is a very slim chance I will ever come back but I can't say it will or won't happen - not right now, I want to move to S Carolina to get away and if it is a mistake, I will be back, I don't know what I am going to do when she moves to Missouri - I don't know where I will live then, I want a divorce (3 times) before telling me he only wants a legal separation for healthcare reasons only - he told others this for weeks before telling me.

(Please understand these are things that he has said since BD...not all were recent...they have been over time)


Ugh!   I just got to let it all go and move forward one day at a time.  How do I do that without doing something to hurt his journey forward?   I am good with working on me.  I actually enjoy it.   Both physically and mentally.  I have a life and I keep living it.  I am good with time alone.  I sometimes actually get irritated when people stop by without letting me know they are coming.  I relish my free time right now to do what I want to do when I want to do it.  If I don't want to wake up shower and dress on the weekends....I don't.  I don't have to if I don't want to.   I am doing for me.

So what are my best next steps?  Continue with the legal separation?   or wait to see what he has to say on the matter?  How long do I wait?   I almost feel like he is trying to avoid the attorney meeting. Initially, he said he wanted to go together and I asked him to pick and date and time and he has not returned the info per my request (this was about a month ago)
  When I suggested we move forward assuming the worse, he changed the subject yesterday after he said what he had to say.  This is when he gave me the Honestly, I don't know what I want right now speech.

I don't talk R when we do talk.   I am giving him his freedom.  I don't call him and I only start a text in regards to things he needs to know...i.e. mail of his that came in the mail or the occasional info from the kids.  Other than that, I allow him to start communications.    I am not asking him to help with issues here at the house.  I don't even tell him about them anymore.  I just deal with it myself.

So...what should I do now?   I am just so confused as to what actions to take next.  Do something- proceed with the attorney without him  or be patient and do nothing and let things play out for the next few weeks?   Thoughts and opinions please!  Your advice means the world to me!  It helps keep me balanced right now while I struggle with all this new crazy crap!
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online Mortesbride

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2018, 12:18:21 PM »
Well that is a whole lot of monkey braining on what ifs and maybes.

Definitely MLC crazy talk through all of it to be fair.

I would say though that next time he says ''But your mom and I both needed this'' or if he says to you ''We both needed this'' I would calmly and politely say ''This is not what I needed.'' and leave it at that. It would really annoy me if mine started to say that to me or my kids. It is kinda like when they say ''We decided on a divorce'' and you are to say ''No, this is YOUR divorce. I do not want one'' or something to that affect. Gently reminding them that it is THEIR CHOICE, not what you wanted...but that you will not fight them.

In terms of what to do next, well you are the best to decide that. It might get messy after he moves trying to get all the separation stuff through. If you want to continue with separation then it might be best to encourage it along before the move. That is something only you can decide.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2018, 04:44:29 AM »
I agree with Morte... when my mid-lifer would say anything with "We..." I would simply say that it was NOT "we" and there was no "We" in the decision (or whatever else it was).....
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2018, 05:19:00 AM »
Yesterday was pretty much drama free.   A few texts here and there during the day.  Most pertained to nothing.   D heard very little too.

However, last night, it was brought to my attention that H has started up communications with his ex GF from high school  This is the person he dated prior to us dating.   We did not start dating immediately after their breakup.  There was time in between.    He told me way back then about her and why they broke up.   Nothing major as I recall.  They just didn't click.  They were cordial with each other but not friendly.  Too long ago to remember all the details but I don't think they were dating long either.   Only a few months.  They exchanged class rings but never more than that back then.     We were all classmates and I didn't particularly care for her but I didn't really know her either.  She ran with a totally different set up friends and our circles didn't overlap at all.  A few classes now and then, but that was all.   My H and I started dating in April of our junior year of school.   There was never any interference from the XGF.  She had moved on in her life back then too.  I never thought twice about their prior relationship.  Until now. 

About 2-3 years ago, my husband said to me that XGF had just started up FB and I should check it out.  I recall him telling me that she didn't age well based on the pic she put up.   I checked it out back then and agreed with him that the pic was not the most flattering.   She didn't have much info on their.  I don't know much about her.  Seems she may have been divorced with a teenage daughter.   Not sure since it didn't mean much of anything to me. Nothing more was ever said.  I never friended her on FB.  We were not friends before so it meant nothing to be FB friends now.

Now I guess they have swapped phone numbers and are talking.  She is living about 2 hours away.

This could just be old friends talking or not.   I don't know.  Seems odd that they start to talk now of all times.   Not several years ago when she started to surface on FB.  I know there is nothing at all I can do about this other than hope it does not escalate and he has multiple affairs or returns to her now that she is also available.  It just hurts that they start talking now of all times.   

I know we have a mutual friend who probably shared with XGF that H and I are separated and he is not on the market.   ugh.  Always something new.

So what will today bring.  I feel like I am watching a soap opera but it is not very entertaining right now.   I want this show to stop!  I know it will eventually and I hope for the best and I am preparing to accept the worst.

Hope everyone has a good day!   
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2018, 08:54:41 PM »
It is fairly common for the MLCer to contact old girlfriends looking to rekindle their relationship.

All you can do is distance yourself and wait.  There was a reason it didn't work out the first time and the reasons still stand.  The MLCer is a different person to what they usually are, so don't be too surprised if they do start something.  It will mean nothing in the end, OW's are a symptom of the crisis and not the answer.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Online moc

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2018, 10:34:54 PM »
I have heard that the damaged MLCer have to go back and re-live, grow-up and mature.  The MLCer is emotionally stunted back where they left off so I am not surprised that your H might go back and see WHAT IF.  But like SF said, she is a symptom of his DIS-EASE within his CRISIS.  The MLCer cannot hold their masks or feet in more than 1 world for very long.  It wears them out.

I have seen this in both my MLCers.  MLCer1 XW, rolled back to her hometown to "party", have friends, etc.  She has made her bed that she has to lie in.  She is emotionally stuck in teenage schmoopie land from one OM to a different OM.

MLCer2 Crisis Queen has tried to re-live with ex-friends from high school.  This has not panned out for her but she texts more than any teenager I have ever seen. 

They are all in crisis and we must let them fall on their face, a$$es, etc.  Let them firetruck their own worlds and we can get out the popcorn and watch.  Try to remove yourself as much as possible.  Take care.
~ avoiding the Damn Foolish Idealistic Narcissistic Crusade ~ MLC

~ MLCers: one fruitcake short of a Christmas

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2018, 04:05:09 AM »
Thank you for that insight.  That helped make sense to me.

Yesterday I rcvd a few texts in the am from him regarding my damaged mailbox.  He ended up calling me after he left the store to tell me about the mailboxes.

He started off by telling me to get the cheapest one possible and get two in case the plow truck takes it out again.  Then he started to tell me how to replace it.  Then he said I should have just picked it up tonight and came over and did it for you.   I told him I would take care of it.

We talked about the weather today and he told me to call him if I have problems with the snow blower he would come and help.  Told him I got it.  Not to worry but if there was an issue, I would call.  He said it 2 or 3 times during the convo.

He then told me he had a great nights sleep last night and it was the 1st one he had since October.  I started to say I am sorry to hear that...this is what you chose and he cut me off to tell me he hoped I had a good nights sleep.

He then said he was at the grocery store and had to go.  Good night...sleep tight...luv ya  bye...I'll probably talk to you tomorrow.   I got out a bye...juv ya and he was gone.

Question:  Is it ok to respond with luv ya when he says it first? or should I withhold   This type of luv ya is more like a brotherly/sisterly type luv ya when you hang up the phone.  Not a deep   I LOVE YOU or anything of the sort.
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2018, 05:23:43 AM »
Quote
Question:  Is it ok to respond with luv ya when he says it first? or should I withhold   This type of luv ya is more like a brotherly/sisterly type luv ya when you hang up the phone.  Not a deep   I LOVE YOU or anything of the sort.

Not sure there IS a "right" or "Wrong" answer to this... Of course, I have never been confronted with anything like this so, assuing that I EVER heard anything remotely resembling a "love you" from my Mid-Lifer, I'd be in such a state of shock they'd have to call the paramedics to zap me so my heart would restart...  ::)

It does have a bit of a "throw-away gap-filler sentence" feel to it though....

I guess it depends on how you feel about it... What does your tummy tell you? Did it feel OK? Then go ahead... Did you want to say <Blech!> afterwards? Then maybe not...

UM
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2018, 05:35:45 AM »
UM

What does this mean?   It does have a bit of a "throw-away gap-filler sentence" feel to it though....

He doesn't always say these things.  Sometimes he does...sometimes not.  He left here one time and as he walked away he actually said I love you.  Sometimes he texts Love you, luv u, xoxo    sometimes nothing at all.   Just never know what you are going to get out of him or when.   

I am not letting myself read into it at all.  We said this to each out for over 30 years everytime we hung up the phone.   Maybe it was a slip....maybe not.    He seemed to hold back from saying it the last few days we talked and last night he didn't.


This is just all a big mess....but I am riding along.   I am working hard on taking care of me and I am doing a bang up job at it.  Last night I prepared the snow blower all by myself and when I had questions I reached out to my SIL vs  H.   I think h was a tad put out when I told him last night I had everything ready just needed the snow.  He knows I am capable....but I think he expected me to reach out to him.    I can't as my first line of help....he ran away....I need to use other sources of assistance for now until he decides in the future where things go.   I got this.  It is sometimes hard and sometime easy....gets easier as I go on and increase my confidence.

For example....I want a taco salad and the place that makes the best in the area is where we used to go together at least 2 times a month.    I have made up my mind, I am going there alone tonight for a taco salad.  I had people volunteer to go with me but I really want to do this alone to prove to myself I can do it.  Next time I'll invite friends to join me.

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2018, 05:48:18 AM »
UM

What does this mean?   It does have a bit of a "throw-away gap-filler sentence" feel to it though....

He doesn't always say these things.  Sometimes he does...sometimes not.  He left here one time and as he walked away he actually said I love you.  Sometimes he texts Love you, luv u, xoxo    sometimes nothing at all.   Just never know what you are going to get out of him or when.   

I am not letting myself read into it at all.  We said this to each out for over 30 years everytime we hung up the phone.   Maybe it was a slip....maybe not.    He seemed to hold back from saying it the last few days we talked and last night he didn't.


This is just all a big mess....but I am riding along.   I am working hard on taking care of me and I am doing a bang up job at it.  Last night I prepared the snow blower all by myself and when I had questions I reached out to my SIL vs  H.   I think h was a tad put out when I told him last night I had everything ready just needed the snow.  He knows I am capable....but I think he expected me to reach out to him.    I can't as my first line of help....he ran away....I need to use other sources of assistance for now until he decides in the future where things go.   I got this.  It is sometimes hard and sometime easy....gets easier as I go on and increase my confidence.

For example....I want a taco salad and the place that makes the best in the area is where we used to go together at least 2 times a month.    I have made up my mind, I am going there alone tonight for a taco salad.  I had people volunteer to go with me but I really want to do this alone to prove to myself I can do it.  Next time I'll invite friends to join me.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh... Not knowing what level of communication you have with your Mid-Lifer makes it a bit of a minefield to navigate when asked for advice  ;)

Like you said, it was the brother/sister kind of thing... Maybe as you said, a slip of the tongue.... Something that he would say out of habit rather than out of really meaning it.  That is what I meant... sort of like them calling you a Pet Name accidentally...

The whole "asking for help" thing is so bizarre... It is as if the Mid-Lifer would like us to realize we "need" them and when we show them that we are perfectly capable of dealing with things without them, they seem to get upset... Another loss of control that they experience... That very well could be a Male Mid-Lifer thing for the most part although my Mid-Lifer has occasionally said that if I needed help with the kids, I could call her... Ironically, I do as well or better than she does in many cases...

Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2018, 09:00:59 AM »
UM,

Thanks...I didn't think you sounded harsh.  I just didn't understand what you meant!  Thanks for clarifying for me.


Our conversation varies.   For for the 1st month...nothing...an occasional text.  At about 1 month, he started to call and text more often.   Then he started to come by the house and help with things.  Then he started to visit just to watch TV and hang out.  Then he started to come over for meal and leftovers during the holidays.  He was up to 2 to 3 days a week.  Since January 1st, he has stopped by my office 1 time and came to the house 1 time so visits have stopped.  I have also gave up telling him about things that need done at the house and just handling them myself.

He is still calling me about 5 - 6 days a week except when he is on vacation.  He is dropping me texts pretty much every day.  They vary in the amount and what they are about.   He recently also started to reach out on instagram (within the last week) and he has been using Snap to communicate. 

Most of the time we talk about what I call nothings.  Weather, work, family, etc.  I don't ask him questions like what are you doing, how are you feeling, etc.  I do ask him about health things...like his arthritis, gout etc just to show him I do still care about him feeling physically better or if he had a cold, ask him how that is improving.  Occasionally he will ask me what my plans are and I tell him.  I don't volunteer unless he asks.   I used to ask him to dog sit so I could get away and I don't do that anymore. 

Sometimes it feels like I am talking to the H of yesteryear and sometimes I feel like he is just reaching out because he feels obligated to touch base.   I try to let him lead the phone calls and conversations.   

I am just rolling with the punches right now.  I no longer expect to hear from him.   When I least expect it is when he makes contact.  Like last night....never expected a call near bedtime and then the phone rang.   Who knows!   

BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #91 on: January 19, 2018, 05:12:31 PM »
Journal Entry:

I stepped away for a few days.  I was getting information overload and I need a few days to digest everything coming at me.

Not much has changed the last few days.   H stopped by the office today to use a spare computer.  He didn't need to.  He let me know he sent money to our son and he had to use the puter to do the transfer.  He didn't.  He has an app for that.   Yesterday he told me he was stopping by to use the computer to do some renewals.  This I understood.  It requires copies of insurance cards that I have on file plus H would need to print the State forms.  He didn't do those at all.   He also informed me that he was going to get some groceries for D to make him supper tonight when he when out to  visit.  He came by at 15 minutes prior to closing.  He spent 5 mins on the puter and stood in my door way and talked to me for about 10 mins.  As soon as I got up to get ready to leave, he raced out of there.  When he got to the door, my partner yelled to him....nice talking to you...he replied Yep....by Partner, bye dog, bye me by nickname.   He doesn't do that often at all anymore.

Tonight he went to visit D and grandson.  D called and told him it was a good night.  H actually interacted with D, SIL and GS and stayed almost 2 hours.  In the past, he didn't  hardly talk.  He would stay on his phone for the whole time and watch TV and not enjoy the benefits of going to visit.  He also offered D some money to help pay a bill that just came up and advised he wanted to come back next week and visit too.   Last week our D went off on him because he wasn't spending quality time with GS.   Something hit home this week.  Hope it sticks for their sake.

Wednesday he was supposed to stop by to dye my hair( his call)  H did show up but did so before I got home.  He picked up the mail and went to visit his parents before I got home.  He called me later in the night and also sent me some FB videos and some texts.  Odd this about this night, when he first called he asked if I was home yet and I replied yes.   Later in the convo I informed him I wouldn't eat supper until I got home due to it not being done yet.  He said to me....are you still at the office.  I replied no....I meant when I get home from my meeting.

Thursday he called me 3 times.   At one time he told me in the middle of a conversation...I gotta go...I'll call you back soon.   He hung up.   I believe the OW called him and he disconnected our call.   If that was the case, it is a win because he used to lie to me about who was calling him.  This time no lie, just I gotta go.  I prefer that over his lies.   I knew he was lying because when he called me back and I asked how Joe Blow was doing he would say good, but when he hung up on me he told me it was John Dear that was calling him.   He couldn't keep his lies straight.

Pretty bad when I consider him not lying a good thing.  LOL.
As for me...I am doing well.   I got a lil bit of anxiety when he came to the office today, I with a few deep breathes I calmed down and he did as I expected.  He kept his distance from me.   Didn't come into my office...stayed in a safe place at the doorway between offices.   Had some courtesy chat and left.

My tears and sad times are less and less and my confidence is soaring.  I got this.   I am holding onto hope and I know in my heart I still love H but I do know that now matter what the future holds....I got this.  The good the bad the ugly....bring it on!
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online Kitty

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #92 on: January 19, 2018, 07:55:57 PM »
Attaching

You are doing fantastic! I wish I was at that stage. Right now I seem to be wallowing a bit.

((Hugs))
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 11.5
No kids, no pets
MLC started 2015(??)
1st. BD 12/3/17 - H wants separation
12/21/17 - Separation agreement signed
2nd. BD 12/22/17 - I find out about affair after H told me there was no OW
12/22/17 - I moved out

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2018, 08:48:34 AM »
I find it utterly amazing how things can be vastly different all the time.

Yesterday and today we had very limited contact.  Yesterday he called to ask me to confirm some directions for him.  This is the 2nd time he did this.  He has mapquest on his phone plus a professional GPS in his vehicle.   Follow what it says.  He wanted me to confirm that the route chosen by the GPS was the best route.   I helped him out.  We talked a few minutes more then he reached his stop and that was all for the day.

Today, he called when he was about 20 minutes from returning to the depot.  We talked for 18 mins.  He told me about his car problems (nothing major).  We talked about the walking I did yesterday and today.  He suggested a new route and I tried it and liked it.  We laughed at a situation he ran into yesterday.  A few other things and we were done.  Who knows what will happen later today.   I have plans and he is off for the next 2 days so that means limited contact too.  He can't call during the day because the OW is off.  She works 2nd shift.  He usually calls me in the AM.

He also called D today since he had a stop only 10 mins from her house and invited them to come see him at the store and let Q sit in the big truck.   They were floored but happy and went to visit him.   I am so glad that he is renewing his relationship with D and GS and SIL.   He needs to spend as much time with GS as possible.   If he moves, the D and GS will be devastated but at least they are mending some fences now and making some memories.

I did notice that for the last week when we talked about our home, he referred to it as my place and my issues and he made suggestions and called around (without me requesting) to get info.  He did volunteer to come to help fix.  Just told me how he would fix them.   I didn't ask him for help either. 

 My gut tells me he is distancing right now and I am letting him do it.  When he calls....I talk.  When he texts...I respond.

I read somewhere that men are fixers.  Let them fix.   My dilemma...should I ask him or let him volunteer.  Right now it seems like he is trying to avoid situations where we are alone.  He will stop by the office when he knows my partner is there.   Won't come by the house when he knows I am here.  I don 't want him feeling guilted or obligated to fix things.  Prior to this...he just showed up and did things.   Now he seems hesitant and I don't want to ask him for help if he doesn't want to offer....or should I and if he declines, just accept it as is.  Ugh....trying to deal with someone you can't understand is infuriating sometimes.

Right now my way of thinking is I gotta tackle things on my own.  If he moves, he won't be here to help.  I should just keep that in mind and figure it out on my own now.

Opinions?  Love to hear them all!
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online sachat3

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2018, 10:18:38 AM »
I don't know if this is right or wrong but for me, if my ex offers to do something. I let him. But I don't ask him too. For example today mine did a skip run for me. He offered. I never asked. I need my walls plastering in the house, he has offered but I won't ask.

I find that way, he probably gets to feel useful without pressure.

Online Kitty

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2018, 01:11:15 PM »
I let H help with the initial move and putting together the first couple big things for me. After that I started refusing help and doing it myself. That was one of the reasons he asked for the separation, so I could become confident in doing things myself.

Since your H isn't like that, then I would take all the help he is offering. Just as long as he doesn't monster about it later. Then I would decline any help he offers.
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 11.5
No kids, no pets
MLC started 2015(??)
1st. BD 12/3/17 - H wants separation
12/21/17 - Separation agreement signed
2nd. BD 12/22/17 - I find out about affair after H told me there was no OW
12/22/17 - I moved out

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Online Mortesbride

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2018, 03:56:13 AM »
For what it's worth... every time I do something 'he would have done'...mine goes a bit nuts and starts trying to find a way he can 'make himself useful to me'.

Example: I got tired of waiting for him to hang my wallpaper, so when he took my little one out, me and a friend hung it up.

Reaction: He was stunned, kept going on and on about how nice it looked. Then promptly decided to take all the stuff in the cupboard to the skip RIGHT NOW even though I'd been hinting about it for a few weeks. Think there was something else he did that night but can't recall now.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2018, 05:19:02 AM »
I am on the other side of the fence...

My Mid-Lifer won't ask for help but she will "drop hints." The problem there is that I no longer respond to "hints" because, when I did, it was invariably wrong (seriously, at the end, if I changed a light bulb the replacement (that was a carbon copy of what was already there) was too bright or not bright enough...  :o

If she asks explicitly, I'm glad to help but I am just NOT going to get caught up in mind reading again.

In your case, if he offers without being asked, sure, why not. If you can do it yourself, then you can decide if you'd rather do it or if you want to let him do it...
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 10
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
No legal action to date

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline bipolared

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #98 on: January 22, 2018, 09:33:51 AM »
If he offers I would take the help.  But if it is something you can manage or get someone else to help you with, I would do that.  For me, it was nice to have that feeling of accomplishment and to rely on myself b/c lets face it, they are not reliable especially the farther in they go.  And while we should never do things with their reaction in mind, his was usually pretty satisfactory when I did it on my own.  Just an added bonus.
I'm not looking for my other half because I'm not half a person.

Online Kitty

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #99 on: January 22, 2018, 09:38:11 AM »
My H always reacted positively when I was able to accomplish things myself. He said that I needed to work on being able to do things myself more often which will help my confidence. Which is why I never understood all the "I need to know you're going to be okay, so I'll take care of you as much as I can." back when I first moved out.

Can you say coo coo for Cocoa Puffs?
Me 37; H 41
Together 20 years; married 11.5
No kids, no pets
MLC started 2015(??)
1st. BD 12/3/17 - H wants separation
12/21/17 - Separation agreement signed
2nd. BD 12/22/17 - I find out about affair after H told me there was no OW
12/22/17 - I moved out

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way for you to become what you are meant to be." Kylo Ren - Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #100 on: Today at 03:48:22 AM »
Good morning all....Journaling today:

Sunday, H called after visiting with D and talked for 15 mins.  Have not heard from him via phone or text since then.  Yesterday morning, he included me in a snap he sent out of a breakfast cassarole he made.  It looked good and I responded telling him that.  Nothing else since then.

The ow has been off for the last few days per the DIL.  This explains the limited communication not only with me but also my D and DIL.  D was complaining last night that H reached out to her to visit and when she tried to set up times and dates he was very short in his text responses and there was lags in between.  We all see this when the OW is around him.   He doesn't engage in phone or text conversations with anyone and if he does he is very short in his answers and takes forever to get back.   I can only guess she is hovering and monitoring.  At least I hope she is.  I would rather imagine that is the issue vs him being totally engrossed in her and not paying attention to anyone else but her for 3 days.    Is that bad of me?   I hope she is doing things to make his living with her more difficult. She must be working tonight because he is trying to go see D tonight.

As for me....I am still doing me.   I am reading and trying to learn and be better.  My attention span and sleep is getting better and better all the time.  Right after BD, I hardly slept and I found it difficult to concentrate.  I find I am finally getting back into work and sleep is getting better which of course helps my concentration.  I also make sure I spend at least 1 hr a day exercising.  Which I look forward to!  This crap with him not communicating right now realy doesn't bother me like it used to.  I take things minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.  I know tomorrow night he could reach out to me or he may not.  Who knows?  I have things to do and I don't wait around for that call, text, snap, etc.  When he reaches out and it is convenient, I respond.  Sometimes immediately and sometimes later on.
 
Yesterday I sat and cried but I didn't cry over sadness for me or dreams I felt I lost when H left.  I cried for H.  The more I learn about MLC, the more I realize he must be living in pure HELL.  I feel bad for what all he is going thru.  I know there is nothing I can do but I would love to wrap my arms around him and tell him everything will be okay.  Just take care of himself.  Right now he is avoiding seeing me alone so I know this is something I can't do either.  I hate the fact that he is hurting, but I know that eventually he will face things and move forward and I hope and pray after wards there is an   for us  I worry for him!   I want want him to be OK eventually and no longer be in the emotional and mental pain he is in.

Based on something he told the DIL, we believe he is dealing with abandonment issues with his parents.  He said to DIL,  why should I do anything for my parents....they didn't do anything for me.   About 1,5 years ago, he asked his parents to loan him money to buy a MC with a promise to pay them back in a few weeks.   A friend was selling his and he needed time for the loan to go through.  His parents wouldn't loan the money to him because they didn't feel they needed to help him.  They had GAVE money to his brother and sister when they had issues and H asked for a short term loan not a gift but he was told you have a good job and a wife that works, you can take care of yourself.   This bothered him.  He said I was the good kid and did all things right and they can't help me out but they can help out the bro and sis that didn't make the right choices.  We had talked about this and I know this hurt him.  But we eventually got him a bike...just not the original one he wanted.   I wonder if this wasn't the start of him  going into MLC and it took time for him to get to where we are now.   He is no longer the good kid in the family.  He visits his parents but not regularly and he doesn't do much to help them out either right now.   He is sort of avoiding them too but he had been doing that for some time.

Now, I have another question:

My H told me that the affair started about 2 mos before BD.  He also told my IC the same thing and she confirmed yesterday.  Is it normal in MLC that he move out and move in with someone he barely knows?   Background, this OW has been an acquaintaince for about 20 yrs.  Our kids went to school together and if we saw each other in public we were courteous to each other.  On her social media you can see where she likes to hang with people with HD mc so I am guessing this is where the connection started sometime mid summer.   I say this because the beginning of the summer all was very good with us.  We had just bought a new pool and was planning for a deck and balcony.  Planning to buy him a new truck and planning on building a garage with a workshop for him.    Right about the time my son was leaving to move x country is when things started to get weird.  H started to store his HD at a friends house,  H was very distant when we had the going away party for S and DIL.  He drank too much and went to bed very early and missed a lot of the friends he had invited over.  My parents noticed he was not stopping in and talking to them when he mowed their lawn and at a family gathering in Sept, he claimed he was not feeling well and sat in the car while we enjoyed a meal.  H decided in early Oct that he was going to leave and move in with the OW but had to take 3 weeks to get his affairs in order.  Move clothes, etc.  I have read other situations and with them it all seems like the OW had been around for awhile.  Not so with my H.

So is this type of decision normal?  My guess is you will all say YES, but it is something I just can't understand.  I personally can not imagine moving in with someone I barely know, but that is most likely the MLC he is dealing with.  He feels when he is with her....and he didnt think he felt when he was with me....correct?

Still trying to get a grip on all of this and understand it.   Love to hear what everyone else thinks or what your experiences were.
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online Mortesbride

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #101 on: Today at 04:31:41 AM »
Actually I have seen several of these stories where they have only known the alienator for a month or two.

My guess is she let's him drink and 'doesn't expect anything' but whatever she gets in return (be that ''oh you are so amazing I left my wife for you'' ego boost, or money, or sex, or whatever dysfunction she was looking for).

These relationships do tend to have OW who are jealous and controlling. How can she not be? If you knew your husband had left his previous wife for you, would you not be leery he would do the same to you? Wouldn't you feel insecure every time he talked to the woman he was actually married to? There will always be that seed of distrust between them. He will not fully respect her because she was happy to get involved with a married man, and she will never trust him because he cheated on his wife. But right now it is early and they are in 'tru lurve' and it is so romantic blah blah blah. ::)

Don't worry, it won't last long (if at all). He can't text you guys because it probably sets her off angry or whiney with insecurities. Take that as a positive sign that it is as F'ed up as you thought.  ;)

You can't imagine moving in with a stranger, or cheating on your husband, or acting like an idiot...because your cheese is firmly on your cracker.  8)

Offline sampsedTopic starter

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #102 on: Today at 04:47:00 AM »
You can't imagine moving in with a stranger, or cheating on your husband, or acting like an idiot...because your cheese is firmly on your cracker.  8)..

OMG   Thank you for the early morning laugh.    I am still chuckling about it.

Quite honestly, I don't think she knows he talks to me.   I have called him 2 times when she was around and I didn't know it an he didn't answer.  He called me back about 10 minutes later...always from the car while he was running an errand.   This past weekend, my grandson was playing with my phone and accidentally facetimed him.  He called about 3 minutes later and guess where he was.   Sitting in the car again.   This time he talked to GS for about 30 seconds then had to go.

I know he is deleting texts as soon as he gets them.  He asked me to send him some info one time about 2 weeks ago and I did.   About 20 minutes later he asked me to send again because he "accidntally" deleted the info.   

This leads me to ASSUME that he is hiding the facts that he calls and talks to me.   

Thanks again for the laugh...great way to start my day.   LMAO
BD 10 29 2017  Moved out same day to be with OW
BY 1966
H BY 1966
Married 32 years
Together 34.5 year
D - 1989 Married with 2 children, living locally
S -  1991 Professional School living across Country  - Still relies on us for support

Online sachat3

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Re: Newbie Looking for Support and Advice
« Reply #103 on: Today at 05:01:03 AM »
Yes I think it's plausible that they have only known each other a few months. But as has been said, that will only lead to a massive blow out. The faster something moves the faster it fails!


 

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