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Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.  (Read 902 times)

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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My Story Reconnecting Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« on: January 11, 2018, 08:09:58 PM »
Last night we started with the therapist from the Gottman Infidelity Research Study. Number 1 of 30 sessions. We went for dinner 1st .. I was anxious.. very anxious in fact.  I remember very vividly looking at my hand on the knob of the very 1st therapist we saw....knowing, that this I so bad for me, I should not be doing this. I ignored myself . A lesson very well learned and never will I silence myself again. Within a week of BD ( I no longer love you, trying to leave for years etc) he wanted to go to counselling . WTF?.

He believed that "I had a lot of issues " and he had every right to be happy . She ( the counsellor ) asked him to commit to 3 months of counselling and not abandon marriage until then . He refused.."nope.. been years trying to do this". She asked him why is he is marriage counselling if he has already decided?  No answer .. silence. Said he never should have married me.. it was only for the kids. She asked him to take a vow of fidelity ..until he moved out. Oh.. " this is not about other women"...he laughed .

But , of course, he was already deep into an affair. He sat like a teenager ,all sprawled out , arrogant and extremely insensitive . He was not human ..not the human I have known since I was 13 . He said one shocking traumatic thing after another. Something died in me. She asked him when he was leaving ?..he said "i am really busy at work..I will be gone as soon a the phone stops ringing "...and just laughed like a lunatic. This workaholic was "too busy" to even leave me . Strike 1. This was a very awesome counsellor.

She settled on him..question after question ( at one point she winked at me ) She knew. He was enraged because " why are you on me ?"  And not her ? She asked to see me alone ... she told me straight up..identity crisis . I had no clue what was happening to my life but this counselling caused incredible harm to me ...I should have listened to ME and refused. But of course I was desperate. HE insisted on going...beyond any explanation as to why. She asked him repeatedly .."do you know you are with a marriage counsellor, what do you want to achieve ?". He never had an answer .

I finally quit a it was intolerable torture chamber with this unpredictable angry stranger. He told me I was a "quitter ". HMMMM? . At dinner last night I was nervous ... going to counselling filled me with anxiety all day as it is apparent to me it is a trigger . Finally took 1/2 an Ativan , He asked me at dinner " whats happening right now , babe". UGH. I just have to say it, I need relief... I just blurt " are you going to say anything in there that I don't know ? Are you ? ... I am just checking my blind spot".  WOW.. pouring tears, physical ball of pain up from the belly button..i feel it across my chest .. my tears are so impacted into my body.. they should hit the wall across the room. I am so endlessly astounded by the depth of this unpredictable pain... NO, no no no... babe, no. Nothing .

I have nothing to say ...no no.. But I am gone. It is so embarrassing to be this person, to type it .. to know it is still inside.

I really liked this counsellor, lovely and compassion all over her gentle face. I just felt her care. She told us how truly courageous we were and did we know that ?  So, we are video taped as part of the study and really it was spent with the "history" and her describing the study. She talked about homework , commitment and the "process of change " that we would be talking about. What did we want? What does a "good" marriage look like " etc...

She wanted a commitment of 15 hours per week in communication or together without anger, contempt or argument .. this is the minimum studies shows to create and maintain intimacy .   Ummmm?  I can see.. we have never had 15 hours per week for "undivided" attention... I think he cringed. Our "homework"  to establish a "pre-plan" as to how we will secure 15 hours ...etc etc..   oh my . He is now away for 2 days.. working. We are also to review our lovelanguage ... we forgot . Back next week.

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9293.0

« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 07:16:43 PM by Thunder »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 09:12:04 PM »
Thank you for your deeply moving post, Barbiedoll.

I, personally, don't think a marriage counselor will help because it is not your marriage that is in trouble, and if you fear he will sabotage and traumatize you during the counseling sessions, you should not go to them.

She wants you and your husband to commit to 15 hours a week. Please forgive my gauche question, but just how much is she charging you for you to be uncomfortable and get nowhere?

Offline bvFTD

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 09:21:34 PM »
If you are willing, perhaps think about making an appointment with a neuropsychiatrist just to see if you can make sense of bomb drop in a fraction of the time the marriage counselor wants you to commit to.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 09:44:17 PM »
I felt every inch of your pain during that post barbie, I could also see myself doing the same thing one day.

The counseling is a wonderful idea.  Even if we thought our marriages were good, we are starting all over again with a new man and woman if we have both done our inner work during and after the crisis, and really need a new marriage base.  If nothing else, it makes us mindful of the other person and commits actual time to them instead of always putting things off.

I love Gottman's work and truly believe that this could be the making of a new and wonderful marriage for you both.

As horrible as it was to feel such grief, you can feel safe in the knowledge it obviously wracked him to the core to think you would be so worried about anything he divulges.

The program will be wonderful and I expect wonderful posts over the next few weeks about the amazing journey this is for the two of you.

His crisis may not have been about your marriage but the new relationship is.  I do hope your H is getting some personal counseling for his FOO issues as this parallel therapy would be invaluable to him.

He loves you barbie, I can feel it in my bones ;)

Many hugs to you both :-*
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Online Treasur

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 09:45:19 PM »
First of all, Barbie - I love, love, love this thread title!

And I disagree with bv actually...I think you and your H are two battered folks who love and respect each other and want to build a strong different kind of marriage. A new kind of intimacy from the flames. I also think that both of you are showing tremendous courage and a real 'in your boots' commitment to each other.

The trigger? Understandable....but please try to remember that it was your Shadow H sat in those past counselling sessions. It doesn't sound like your H would laugh like that now, or lounge back like a pompous a$$hat who is so busy and self- important. Now, he is the H who noticed your anxiety and asked about it and listened to you. Who is probably as frightened as you sometimes. And you're not the same shocked, bewildered Barbie either...you are stronger and wiser and you've learned a lot along the way.

And 15 hours? Easy....a full day at the weekend plus a couple of evenings....it's about being present with each other I think...maybe a chance to do something different together, play chess, go dancing, learn boxing!

I think you're right and you are ready now, Barbie.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:48:46 PM by Treasur »
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online FaithWalker

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 09:49:22 PM »
Attaching

Your feelings are tangible, I can feel them myself when I read along with you.  I hope that this study helps you both.  Very curious about this study.
M-39
H-42
S-17
D-15
S-12
Friends for 7 years before dating
Married for 14 years
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniversary
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged to her 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Engagement off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Joined POF within the first month back


Link to my journey: 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9711.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Never become a container for bitterness.  Bitterness is a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes -- some things have to break all apart so better things can be built."

Online Whyus

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 10:23:56 PM »
Great title Barbie, made me feel good just reading it knowing all that you have been through.
I agree with SF. Your H is a different man now and loves you, that is clear to all of us here and you know it too. It will be hard work for you both but worth it all in the end.
You will be just fine Barbie, both of you.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 02:56:32 AM »
Quote
I, personally, don't think a marriage counselor will help because it is not your marriage that is in trouble, and if you fear he will sabotage and traumatize you during the counseling sessions, you should not go to them.

She wants you and your husband to commit to 15 hours a week. Please forgive my gauche question, but just how much is she charging you for you to be uncomfortable and get nowhere?
.
bvFTD....

The marriage counselling I was referring to in my initial post was the time period of BD... and how I experienced that. I am affected by the residue of that memory and how traumatising it was to me. It is true...it has been my experience to NEVER be in counselling with these fruit-trucks while they are in crisis ...it almost killed me and now I am afraid of counselling. It was a huge regret to be trapped in a room with monster who appeared to love  audience while he spewed his shadow-sh*t all over me .

Present day counselling? Has to happen..or you have to walk away. That is my opinion. NEVER could I deal with him or the PTSD on my own. Others do, I am aware of that. As far as the cost  ( I am into this mess for over forty grand now) the Gottman Institute pays 50%. Felt like I won the lottery. The 15 hours is time spent together outside of the hour of counselling...

Quote
If you are willing, perhaps think about making an appointment with a neuropsychiatrist just to see if you can make sense of bomb drop in a fraction of the time the marriage counselor wants you to commit to.
.

No. This is not something I would ever consider . No.

Thank you everyone ...I sure do appreciate everyone. You are like gold to me !

Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Tyks

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 03:29:30 AM »
Yay, you syarted a new thread lol

15 hours of communication? Per week? Holy, now I can see why my marriage went for the sh!tes lol.

Seriously, awesome!! I think that this new counselling is just what the doctor ordered :) you go girlfriend!!
Me 48
Him 48
22 years together - Married 20
BD1 - August 26, 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD 2 - August 28, 2016 - OW discovered EA - Kicked him out - currently separated
D15 D18

April 2017 - Legal Separation Agreement
August 2017 - I filed for divorce

Online Treasur

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 04:36:04 AM »
But surely 15 hours is about being 'present' and engaged with each other...not necessarily big talks or earnest activities...if I think back to my M before MLC started to brew, we did that pretty easily actually.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 05:21:13 AM »
I am very happy you like and feel safe with this counselor barbie!
(hugs)
31
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 12:38:35 AM by OldPilot »
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline FamilyIsMyGoal

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 06:23:46 AM »
Thank you Barbie!  So, just to be clear, that first paragraph was about BD in 2013?  But you are now going through the Gottman Institute?  I totally get the PTSD, as we have discussed.  You are my hero! 
Divorce Bomb August 6, 2017
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
Physically separated - he's 15 miles away
Two Teenage boys
Me: 54
H 58
OW? I don't know - probably plural

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 06:27:48 AM »
I thought about 15 hours a week when I read this. That's just about 2 hours a day. It was so easy before. If I had that type of "homework" (and a willing husband) I think it would mean paying closer attention to our time together.

I am thinking, even when we would go outside and do yard work together, we might not be talking but there was this peace between us.

It has been said that after MLC, a marriage can be even better than it was before and I think that is true.

I am amazed that you are receiving help from the Gottman Institute for they are world renown for their work.

One of the many things I used to think, was that we could have gone anywhere in the world, we could afford to see the absolute best therapists available to save our marriage, but he had no interest to do so.

Barbie, I know how difficult this is for you. Thank you for sharing with us with such openness. Many people who have reconnected are not able to continue posting, and I understand that. For those that do, it is incredibly helpful to me to hear your stories.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline Clara 12

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 09:32:21 AM »
I feel your pain when reading your story and wanted to say it really is a gift to all members to be allowed to follow your journey in such detail.

X
Married - 1995
BD1 - March 2016 - ILYBINILWY
BD2 - Jan 2017 - Left
BD3 - May 2017 - OW discovered

Offline Mae

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 10:16:10 AM »
Barbie you've already gotten to page two on your new thread.

You are incredibly brave and honest and open in your posts.....much more then me.

I love your thread title too, brilliant I want to steal it but I'm committed to sticking with "The Sun Pts 1, 2, 3....." (might put a nod to your title in brackets though....that ok?)

I've never read a description of your first MC session before......it was really sad and I can understand why there is a lot of residual shock and trauma.

I hope you are both able to get a lot out of this study and the counselling sessions.
Me: 49
H: 40
S18, D15
Together for 19 years
BDay in 2004, 2011 and now March 5 2017
Ran away on 5 March BD
No OW
Returned home 'underdone' 1 July 2017.
Left again 22 October 2017.
H - Medicated & Zombie Like is NC

Offline MCSINME

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 02:48:44 PM »
Barbie:
I am sorry that there is such a bad trigger from your first MC episode.
My MLC H and I started with Gottman Theory in our original sessions when MLC started.
It was a failure, FOR US, because he was not in it - did not do his homework, did not turn toward me, did not want to spend time with me and all we did was argue during the sessions.  BAD!  Still going to the same MC, but she's given up on Gottman, and is trying to get information about his EA/PA and commitment to him to cease.  It's been a few weeks because of holidays and FIL illnesses, so I'm really excited but really scared to hear what I don't want to hear or to hear more lies.

I digress, however, because now your H has turned toward you, cares about you and you'll be growing together in your "new and improved" marriage.  BTW:  There is a free app for Gottman "cards" you can get and they have open-ended questions to ask and things to do together, depending on your love language...

I can't wait to hear how great the counseling goes.
M56
H57 - Live-in MLC
Met 1984
Married 1990
MLC Began after major move 12/2016
BD#1 EA 5/17 Found by accident, denial, lying
BD#2 EA/PA 11/17 Found by accident, still Denial and lying.  Currently at least one ow (39)

S16, S19, S22

"but those who have hope in the LORD will renew their strength.  They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint"  Isiah 40:31

Offline Anjae

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 04:34:49 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Barbie.

Looking forward to read more about how the new MC is going for you and your husband.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 12:37:27 AM »
She wanted a commitment of 15 hours per week in communication or together without anger, contempt or argument .. this is the minimum studies shows to create and maintain intimacy . 
Sounds like what they advocate on marriage builders.

Offline Mitzpah

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 08:49:01 AM »
Barbiedoll,

Really enjoying what you are able to tell us. Thank you for being so brave to put all that pain out there.

I think you have a great counsellor, she is absolutely right, you are two incredibly brave people!

Following along and cheering for you!!

It was so easy in my marriage to have 15 hours weekly together, the way she  recommends... Some of it was spent sailing, part working on the house or cooking together, part driving places where we would talk and talk... I miss that.

We still talk lots when he comes over but there is the easy intimacy factor missing :'(
M 56
H 56
S 25
S 24
D 22
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 09:18:54 AM »
15 hours would have been easy for us back in the day.

But I'd say for the last year or two...we may have gotten that much time...but it was spent watching tv, going to cinema etc...so not very intimate I suppose. Half the time I tried to do other things, he would have his head in the phone.

Anyway it is a good thing to remember, for when/if the time comes. To make sure you are spending QUALITY time together, vs QUANTITY.

Offline Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2018, 03:44:44 PM »
Good for you Barbiedoll, thanks for sharing 😊.

Rose 🌹
Me-46
H-46
S-13
D-11
Married 1999
BD1 - Oct 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
Physical affair with MOW Sept 2016-Jan 2017
Emotional affair with same MOW from Jan 2017 until now - due to geography!
Tried to work through it living as a family and not telling anyone! Not easy with a lying cheating monster, he left Oct 2017 to stay with his parents and 'isn't putting a time limit on it'

Offline No expectations

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 09:52:56 AM »
Hi Barbie,

Welcome to your new thread.  I'm so glad to read your thread title.  I really hope this MC with your H brings you closer, and able to work through things together, rather than separately.  My MC says if we can get to a point where we really feel the pain of the other, we know that this will never happen again.  Not that H and I are there, but I do understand what she means.

Thank you for being so brutally honest and open about your feelings, Barbie.  It must be so tough, and yet somehow cleansing, to share it all with us.  But we are all here, wanting the best for you.

Big hugs!
Married 10 1/2 years, together 17.  BD 9/2016, 2nd BD 10/16.  H moved out 10/16.  2 AS's from my first M.  Me 55, H 49.  OW 23.

"And once the storm is over, you won't remember how you made it through; how you managed to survive.  You won't even be sure if the storm is really over.  But one thing is certain; when you come out of the storm, you won't be the same person that walked in...that's what this storm is all about."

"The trick is to enjoy life.  Don't wish away your days, waiting for better ones."

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 08:52:09 PM »
This is a post from MLC VS ALCOHOLISM started by Never. For my purposes , I changed alcoholism to addictions in general , such as gambling. Its all self medicating ( including OW) that is used by people in pain. I wanted to also have a copy on my own thread, so I copied here too.

Good conversation Never...I am following along although ( initially) I thought it really did not apply to me. Took a peak anyway , and, well here I am. My husband is not a drinker ...al ALL. I have never seen him drunk, never seen him drink more than 1 beer at a social event and he always says " should not have drank that "..feels crappy . He was raised by an extreme violent alcoholic and he has 4 severely addicted brothers ...addicted to alcohol, drugs, porn, gambling..all of them. They have all been divorced ( several times) and I probably hold the record for the # of sister-in-laws that I have had. Now, all 4 live alone, almost reclusive and just spend time self medicating . My husband was the "different " one, the last man standing so to speak , no addictions ( well, likely workaholic...but we never see that as a negative initially) ...he was as clean as a whistle and I often wondered why that was. There is no alcohol in our home... ever. I am also a non-drinker. Not for any specific reason, just never occurred to me to drink. I was raised in a non-drinking home...but alcoholism was rampant in family members. I never aw my mother or father drink. My father is an Adult Child Of An Alcoholic ( ACOA) and I see many of his scars. Funny as this may be... I have NEVER been in a liquor store or a beer store in my entire life. I have 5 daughters... all of them non-drinkers.

For 5 years prior to bomb drop ( 2013) a gang of us went to the casino and for dinner once a month. It was fun, a social night out ...maximum cost was 100 bucks each..sometimes you win sometimes you loose. No issues what so ever . You can imagine my shock ... total devastation , to discover my husband in a casino almost daily when he was out of the house in MLC crazy land. Online banking . Once I realized I could set up "his" bank account and visa online and watch the activity ... everything changed. The shock ..to this day happen whenever I see that bank logo. I never financially monitored my husband ...ever. We used 1 bank for everything ...all banking was done from here and I paid all the bills etc. However, the institution that held our mortgage and credit line was separate and rarely ( very rarely ) did I look at it. No one needs to see their mortgage balance daily...do they? I never looked at the line of credit... EVER  because "we" never used it . I never even opened the monthly statements ..they just stacked up. UGH UGH !!!!. Had I opened them ... life would be so different...but I never felt any need . He said he never used the credit line and I believed him...totally. Of course. The credit line was attached to "our" debit card . Except, I never knew this and I had no debit card . ( I found it hidden in his desk) . Close to unforgivable here . I saw him ( online) at 4 casinos in 1 night ... and knew he was not " the last man standing... the good one". I printed off bank records 5 years back... and I have been sick about all of it . Seems a gambling issue back atleast 5 years prior to BD in 2013 . Thousands and thousands and thousands... gone. What man ( in their right mind ) stacks up debt for HIMSELF in this way? Like there is NEVER a day..when it has to be re-paid? Like there is NEVER a day...you will be caught ? NEVER?   I will never get it as long as I live... but that is what happened. I confronted him... he lied . Of course he LIED. I printed off 150 pages , laid them on the table ... and he lies, squirms , minimizes, feels "entrapped " WTF??? , balmes our "lifestyle" , tells me I am money hungry, etc etc . Spoken like a true addict . I went home , changed the locks, packed his sh%t, locked up the credit line, cancelled our joint visa , called a lawyer and hoped he would die. Catastrophic to me. To this day.. it has never been adequately addressed...UGH. That all makes me a big loooooser. His behavior makes me so many negative things ??? I have been working on that delusional thinking .

Present day : In the past 4 years , I have caught him in a casino 1 time. And his reasons for being there were absolutely ridiculous. Never have I caught him near a casino again. So unless he is robbing banks for casino money, falling into a casino while out for a walk or being dragged in by aliens...it has only been once. It is not something we are able to talk about. He leaves the pile of bank printouts on his desk ( 4 years???) and he has attempted 2 or3 times to "go thru it". He has never ACTUALLY done it. For those who have followed my story, this has been a huge HUGE issue. I have decided to "detach" from it and leave it alone at the advice of therapists that tell me "i might break him if I continue to push". Not so sure about that. The last discussion had him slam the back door so hard he smash the door frame and all the trim , the glass... all of it yelling " I don't know what I did with the money !   Then he couldn't breathe. So, I have left it alone...but it does not leave me alone. I think of it everyday. So many unilateral decisions...not sure why he has me at all. I am not sure how trust is built with this unsettled. And I have made that very clear ... VERY clear. He has gone so far as to finally ( 6 months ago) agree that it is incredibly wrong to not be accountable, he will go thru it and track that money and that I do deserve an explanation. Never has that happened . I am told shame is a very dangerous emotion and to "let it be". ( easy for those to say that do not have to do it)

He plays on-line poker. Hides it. He will go 4-6 weeks and not touch it at all , and then a frenzy of hours of playing. All hidden and not to be talked about ..ever. I can also track that but I can "feel" when he is there . I have found a way to look at the site , so I know. I have never mentioned it. There is NO money involved...it is a game only. He has been madly playing lately...but it had been over 5 weeks since he touched it...so I am confused by all of that . Gambling is a progressive disease, so I have read. So what will this mean in the future for me? It is a massive problem that I grow resentments and anger around. He has NO access to money..he has to go thru me for any money ...even coffee money pops up on my phone. HIS idea. He turned in all bank cards , credit cards etc to me 4 years ago and has NEVER asked for them back. He has zero access to his own business account... HIS decision and never has he asked for his card back.

It really is not even about the money anymore ...it is about honesty, trust , vulnerability and fear ...about what it means in the future. Addiction is a very scary word and gambling is a big one. I have no clue if he has discussed this with his therapist or not. It is about a loss of respect for him. He has sat thru more conversations with our daughters about the time our grandchildren should be allowed to play computer games , evidence of addictions in kids that are constantly playing games online ... it is talked about here all the time. And yet... that is exactly what HE does. I do not know how he can say anything about it to grandchildren..but he does. I just stare at him..he knows what I am thinking. There is something in the brains of addicts that is wired differently..it has been shown in MRI's of traumatized children . His "developemental" stages in childhood were interfered with by extreme abuse . But what does that mean for me? My children? My marriage ? Is he a ticking time bomb?  I have no idea at all, but I do know he goes to great lengths to hide it . And if I asked him ..he would ( and has ) lied. And how has he actually managed to stay out of a casino because trust me ... a lot of money was spent . I just stay in confusion and distrust about all of it .
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2018, 02:40:20 AM »
Good morning fine people...4 a.m. as usual for me and I am up and at it. Insanity that I am so sick of and unable to change. Regardless, gives me a bit of alone time in front of the fire looking out at the ice and snow. Rather lovely at times. Maybe the non stop snow ploughs woke me up..I always feel like "something" woke me up.

I have had a revelation of sorts ...many even two. It offers more understanding of reactivity and triggers ( not the solution) but more understanding of "why" these happen and are utterly destructive. I am seeing some reasons or explanation for my husbands triggers and have felt some compassion for him...and that is a good thing.

Every conversation with him ends in a very predictable way. So now that we have "homework" and discusssions that we "must " have it is so frustrating I could easily go to ragetown and have a party . He feels " attacked, jumped on, $h!te on, entrapped. Wants to suspiciously know what "i am digging for or chasing" . Feel everything he says is wrong and he will always be wrong so why bother ?" Feels like I have "it all figured out, so why bother talking ?. And the big one " If I say anything , it goes off the rails and it all gets worse" . Then he is silent  ( other than this long list of complaints about my" presentation". This is WORD FOR WORD how he describes his father. He sees me as a "male" apponnent who is looking to manipulate and control him and he does not listen to "talk"...he listens to strategize , to find the trap, hypervigilant defensiveness,extreme lack of trut that this is just a conversation etc ...  and has to repeat the entire conversation to prove "what I did wrong" in my "presentation". I am practically a monotone version of dainty Dinah and unrecognizable to myself. His work is to "change me"  ( and I do need to change some hing) ...but the fact is, he is responsible for those internal reactions that he has yet to resolve. And I am not sure he ever will ... because he is 100% positive it is my fault and "nothing to do with his childhood".  Sad.

Quote
If your partner hasn’t yet done the work to distinguish between their past and their present, they may be subconsciously reacting to you as if you are their parent or as if current struggles are actually past struggles. This can be very confusing for both of you.

How might you know if your partner is transferring feelings from childhood onto a present-day situation, or onto you? Their reaction may be much bigger than the situation calls for, but not only that — their reaction will also have a feeling of intense or deep emotion and they won’t quickly recover from the upset. You might sense that something else is going on, something deeper or complex, given the level of hurt your partner is showing. You may feel that a great misdeed is being attributed to you, and that despite your apology and explanation, noting seems to lessen the hurt for your partner. They are stuck in the hurt.
.

http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2015/04/being-in-a-relationship-with-an-adult-child-of-an-alcoholic/

I always believed it was "projection" ...but I clearly see it is actually "transference" . This is a massive revelation to me . He is a deeply damaged Adult Child Of An Alcoholic and I swear he has every characteristic. All of them.  My own therapist told me several weeks ago  " all of your husbands pain and anger does not belong to you Barbiedoll "...it is bubbling to the surface now and it is about his dad, sexual abuse , abandonment etc.   My husband rejects that...but I can see , he is not all that sure.

A goldmine for me to have found this ...clears up so many things. Horrible attempt to do "homework" last night and I just walked away...firetrucking bullshat!  I am his father ...ZERO question about that .  And is this not part of what MLC is ... resolving childhood hurts, trauma , abuse and pain.?   UGH!

So, revelation # 2. His silence, withdrawal, disengagement, avoidance....the most massive rage filled trigger for me. It is the calm before the BD...as I ( me and my body) believe " something bad is coming". He is going to say something something horrible and I will die . Intense fear. He is my mother ..the stonewalling, rejecting , "guess what I am thinking" always angry mother ... waiting to punish with silence because " I simply do not matter enough to fight with ". My mother could visit for 2 hours and not say ONE SINGLE WORD!. Killer anxiety ... who is she mad at now? what did I do wrong? This is her punishment for some crime . It is a huge trigger...HUGE, to sit in " rejection and silence ". I get extreme hot flashes and all kinds of physical things start to happen and if I loose control ... I am goes to disappear in rage. I am trying to be responsible for my own reactions....and that is firetrucking the hardest thing! I have to stop the conversation , walk away, not own his $h!te . "toughen up " .  And then it is a sh%tshow. I understand the dynamic but it is beyond my control. Off to 2nd counselling appointment today The article that I linked is fascinating.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 03:21:58 AM by barbiedoll »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Online Treasur

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2018, 03:30:06 AM »
ooh, Barbie...matching transference set...no wonder it's tough for both of you, and how brave you are both being individually. It's a really useful link...my best guess with my H is that as his crisis brewed I represented his controlling/unloving parents, then he's become rather like his father and ow is rather like his BPD mother...not sure I'm anything now other than an audience member with popcorn now LOL  ;D
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Never say never

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2018, 03:40:55 AM »
Barbie, I haven't read the article yet but am excited to do so.   I have always felt that my husband is seeing me as his mother (whom he hates) and OW as the mother he wanted as a child.  That is what is so crazy.  There are times when he snaps out of it, but for the most part, he is rebellious 17-year-old who is going to do what he wants when he wants regardless of the damage it is doing.

Now, of course, since he's not here, he is with his fantasy mother. 

You are doing some very tough work there.  I hope your results are amazing because you are trapped, sadly, with so many of your own demons :( :(

Remember, the only way out is through ... like I need to tell you that ;D

Offline 31andcounting

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2018, 04:38:56 AM »
This is absolutely wonderful barbie!

Tough work for you both but so necessary to become two healthy adults!!
Your effort amazes me!

(hugs)
31
Hurting people hurt people :(

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2018, 04:40:15 AM »
Transference is the NUMBER ONE reason to get out of the MLCer's way. My H has all kinds of transference going on and since MIL is around she often plays herself in the childhood drama as well. H plays FIL with OW as MIL. He plays FIL with OW or me as himself as a child (and MIL jumps to my defense). He has played himself as a child with me as FIL. H plays FIL with MIL as herself. He even occasionally plays FIL with me as MIL. There was even a time when I thought he was playing himself as a 2 year old child and OW was MIL.

I can only compare it to the program "Wife Swap." It's like you are being expected to step into someone else's shoes but you don't know the rules.

I know his childhood was so awful that really I consciously just avoid him when I sense he is reliving it because I feel I don't want him to associate me with that part of his life. I prefer to stay ME.

Two things especially trigger it and I especially avoid them-him speaking his native language (and more specifically the dialect) and MIL+food/meals which for some reason are like fire to gasoline.

Two years ago the first sign something was wrong is he started talking about how he wanted me to say two words in his language that he had never ever even mentioned before (we had moved in with MIL two months prior). He is obsessed with having OW say these two words, has even told me that it is the most important thing to him. In fact, the first thing that attracted to him was that she said one of these words when she came to his clinic (and it was a perfectly normal thing for a patient to say to a doctor). He occasionally even goes into a trance like state and talks like his father and gets angry and demands I say the words to him (I refuse because first of all it would be inappropriate for me to say this word to anyone because of my social position in his culture and secondly because I am not putting myself in his childhood). MIL has told me she used to say these words to his father to stop his abuse of her. It's ALL ABOUT THEIR CHILDHOOD.

I think if you can find out anything about your spouse's childhood from your spouse or other family members it is invaluable to help avoid these situations because you can recognize them when they start.

FIL wasn't an alcoholic but he was a drug addict.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 04:56:06 AM by GonerinGhana »

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2018, 06:51:00 AM »
Barbie, once again, your sharing of your pain and experience and the article is very much appreciated. There are no signs that my husband's family were alcoholics, but I am convinced that something happened to him as a child.

In the last 2 therapy sessions, my therapist has said much the same as the article did.

Quote
If your partner is ready and willing to do the work of helping and healing themselves, they’ll do it. It cannot be rushed and you cannot do that work for them.
I can only tell them that when their partner is ready to do the work, they’ll do the work.

My husband is still running hard, and until he stops and looks inward, nothing will change.

She has taught me some techniques, to "turn down the volume" as she says and they really work...basically getting me out of the fight or flight mode that became the norm. I think the difference for me is that I do not see my husband very often whereas you are subjected to your husband every day...and thus of course there would be triggers, even ones that we do not recognize.

Yesterday, I had to go to the eye doctor to get some drops. The owner of the store has always been quite obnoxious and she loudly spoke about how my "ex" (and I never refer to him as an ex) had been in a couple of months ago and had bought these amazing glasses and that he travels all over the world and yet still buys his glasses there....telling this in front of other customers and she would not stop! That was a trigger for me (as well as it being totally non professional for her)...all I wanted was to get an eye infection treated, I wasn't prepared to have a discussion about my husband yada yada.....fortunately, these things don't throw me so much anymore...yet I am still sensitive, even after so many years.

I have found some peace in the therapy I am doing. Yesterday, a yoga instructor who has known me for several years approached me and said this: "You look different, as though the fragmented parts of you are coming together  as a whole."

She was so correct and it amazed me that she could see this on a physical level. Our lives Barbie were totally shattered and for years I have been existing but not whole. I feel like a jigsaw puzzle of 1000 pieces...and some pieces seem missing and I never was very good at jig saw puzzles anyway.

Thank you as always for sharing with us. Sending you peace today.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline islandgirl68

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2018, 03:11:34 PM »
wow, Barbie  :) I'm glad you are sharing your experience.

xxx following along xxx
Me: 33
H: 35
S16; D10; D7; D3
Together 17 years, Married for 1 year
BD: 4/25/2017 (EA, FA)
Returned home and reconnecting

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2018, 04:35:53 PM »
So, therapy session # 2 went to sh$t. It was me, I lost myself in a trigger and his endless ..."I am not heard, she interrupts ( put her to death... he screws wh*r^s) , she tells me I am wrong ( disagrees) , her "presentation" makes it hard , she attacks etc etc ... It is not "safe" to talk. Ha Ha!  I guess I am the only one expected to take risk ..on a cheater . But he will risk nothing. He tells me nothing about his counselling because I am not "safe"..

Lost it and left . Simple. I am so incredibly reactive to this word "presentation".  And he has been asked to pick another word... I guess he "forgot".  Presentation ...hmmm. How I present myself causes him to be silent.  Blame . No NO .. not blame!!   Indeed, this is blame. Presentation...like shopping and avoiding the bashed in cans. They do not present as well. Presentation... he describes me in a masculine way. I am a man that he cannot talk to ...nothing womanly and feminine that he can notice...puts me into another dimension of trigger- rage . I am suddenly in the parking lot smoking before I even made a decision to leave.. instantaneous. It is shocking . Ten minutes later she invites me back in... and I go cause now I am an ass. So firetrucking pissed off I cannot catch my breathe . I talk about transference ... he says " well, this is a new diagnoses".  She starts to ask him about compartmentalization... yes, he is extremely good at it. All over the map. He does not necessarily believe that it is all about his childhood ...he has dealt with most of "that".  It really is just Barbiedoll's presentation is not "safe". I said no more . No point and I was dangling on the cliff of mental snapdom...so, done. I had read an article to the therapist about transference .... and when we got home , he asked me to read it to him. WTF??? . No. Then he made supper, emptied the dishwasher , re-filled the dishwasher and started some laundry . WTF x 10?.  He came into the den and said ..' I think we will go away for the weekend... we need a break. Would you like that ?" .  Now that is a compartmentalizer at work ! I told the therapist I would let her know, if we will be back.   Homework:  Communicate thru writing . I guess that is "safe".
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2018, 06:03:02 PM »
Sounds horrendous Barbie, I would have walked out too, I was getting anxious just reading your post.

It seems your H is out of the tunnel but still not fully accountable for his actions and there is still blame on his part.

His love language seems to be Acts of Service?  He is obviously feeling guilty.  Take the weekend away with him and try to stay calm if you can.  He really does need to stop blaming, open up more and readdress his FOO issues.

Maybe a private talk with your counselor regarding his FOO issues ma be beneficial?

It's slow progress, but you will get there in the end.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Offline MCSINME

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2018, 06:19:59 PM »
Barbie:
Sounds like you're both having a horrible time, and for that I am so sorry.  I don't understand much about transference, but assume I will with time.

I hope you both get away and can spend quality time together.

Hugs to you,
MCS
M56
H57 - Live-in MLC
Met 1984
Married 1990
MLC Began after major move 12/2016
BD#1 EA 5/17 Found by accident, denial, lying
BD#2 EA/PA 11/17 Found by accident, still Denial and lying.  Currently at least one ow (39)

S16, S19, S22

"but those who have hope in the LORD will renew their strength.  They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint"  Isiah 40:31

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2018, 07:47:35 PM »
So sorry Barbie.  :(
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Offline Anjae

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2018, 07:59:01 PM »



I am so sorry, Barbie.

I don't understand much, if anything, about transference.

What I have noticed is that therapy always seems to bring more problems for you and your husband.

Do you really think therapy is worthy?

Going away for the weekend seems to be a good idea. Both of you need a break from therapy and all the hard work.


Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2018, 09:19:09 PM »
I am going to tell you all my version, my story and how I truly see this... up close and personal. When my husband initially returned he walked around naked. He said he felt so free, so OK with who he was. He had nothing to hide anymore, he was who he was ... and it was good. He told me he realized he no longer "had to react " like he always had to certain things..anything. He no longer had to "feel" the way he felt all his life . He could see things so clearly and knew his purpose again. He knew things that happened to him "were not his fault ". He was relieved he would never be his father. He was entirely different than who he had been ... and different than who he is today. He was full of energy to "fix" his marriage, his mistakes , to "pull it out of the fire" and make it right. He was curious about emotion and felt some emotion for the 1st time in his life. He read non stop . He spoke to a crowd of 150 people and had them weeping ( honest to god he could be a speaker) .. he cried and ask for forgivness in front of all of them. He journaled, he dialogued , he watched videos... he wanted to go to church. He talked openly about sexual abuse... drove me to the exact spot it happened . He told me he would never give up ... ever .

He underestimated the damage . He underestimated the time it would take. He was diagnosed with 2nd stage cancer in his kidney and 5 surgeries later ... he started to heal. His brother died. His father died . I was diagnosed with PTSD and hospitalized. He was 56 and un-employed as he quit his job during his "crisis". We were struggling and I could not work . His children ... all women... had mixed reactions to who he was and who he I now . He slowly ... slowly lost his zeal to fix such an insurmountable catastrophy. Now has a "growth" on his thyroid ... but it is a " secret" how he feels about that . He is a locked box .. says " I am fine". Those are trigger words to those of us that have heard that many many times... when nothing was fine. His actions caused a massive sever in our extended family ..because the OW was "in the family". It will never be recovered. Neither will the 100,000.00 or more that is missing . Four years and he refuses accountability or explanantion. I do not like how that makes me feel ... about ME. I matter .

He is without question... back in the "tunnel" and I say this with much shock and fear. Well, actually ..not all that much fear . I will be 100% fine no matter what happens .. and I sure do know that . After an insane session, seeing that "look" in his eye, blaming and crazy -making logic and defensiveness... I saw crazy again. He denies many of the things he already accepted about himself.. now saying many opposites . He is arrogant, self righteous and so so  disrespectfull.   Its ok... I have seen it before. He came home in silence and as all good avoiders do...he made himself busy to stay clear of me and any further discussion. Then he went to his desk . I suspect he did not hear me coming thru the dining room.... and there he is playing online poker . You have never seen a screen disappear so fast in your life . And then ... I walked away . He followed me . It was a $h!te show after that ... the rage that came out of him was actually scary . Ever argue with an addict ?  Do NOT BOTHER . It is not gambling, its a card game... it calms him down , he is not hiding it ( he has been hiding it for 18 months ) , it is not addictive.... and on and on in a fury. So sitting right beside a stack of unexplained credit line withdrawals ... you sit and gamble ? Calmly ... "is that what you are doing ...is it ?".    Yes Barbiedoll... who knows everything, I guess that is what I am doing ... or that's how YOU see it and that's all that matters , that is all that has ever mattered  etc etc " .  " well, how do you see it H?" .. in a flat monotone whisper so not to firetruck with my "presentation". "YOU tell Me... you have the crystal ball, you know it all... you tell me ".    Yes... welcome back ass&ole. ... oh, I mean monster . Suddenly his is digging thru my purse... wants the paper I read to the counsellor about "transference.  "If its important to you... I better read it " he says.   I looked at him... and out me mouth I whispered " I am going to blow this all to rat $h!te, I am going to blow this up in a way you have never seen in your life " ... and I went to bed. He sees his counsellor tomorrow ... " I will tell him everything if it will make you happy" . he says. Keep walking Barbiedoll... keep walking . I am in trouble here again...but calm , yes very calm as a matter of fact. That is what has his attention. I know what I will not tolerate, I know my snapline is very close.... and he knows it too. These men have layers of hidden issues, pain, deep shame , addictions .. all to be kept hidden. I am not a "hide things kinda girl". UGH ! . So now he is down there reading about "transference"... or gambling. I just don't care right now ... at all.
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2018, 12:38:52 AM »
Goodness Barbie4, you are having a hard time with your H.  I know how strong you are but take time to be good to yourself and distance from him if you have to.

Your H is out of the tunnel and has hit rock bottom but is still putting the pieces back together.  I found HB's post on the six stages of MLC and post it here so it may help you to get through this horrible time.

ACCEPTANCE

The Mid Lifer has navigated through five stages of his/her Mid Life crisis by now, and begins into the final stage--Acceptance.

Now, Acceptance is entered in "Stages" Three, to be exact.

Stage ONE involves the disintegration of his/her personality, the "veil" is lifted showing the Mid Lifer EVERYTHING, no holds barred, and he/she realizes for the first time just how much damage has been done to their marriage, lives and spouse. The spouse will be surprised to see "children" surface, as well as "flashes" of the "old" personality, "new" personality, good AND bad personalities. I have described it as similar to schizophrenia, Three faces of Eve, etc.

But, I promise they are NOT crazy, this is what is MEANT to happen, for the Mid Life Crisis extracts a CHANGE, and the disintegration is a part of it, as they are FORCED to look at every facet of their personalities and make some permanent changes. The key to helping them through is to ACCEPT what you see as it comes forth, and don't ridicule or shame them-you will see little kids picking their nose for example--I saw this happen. They will apologize for everything under the sun, and try really hard to make up for the damage; for a little while.

Now during stage TWO of Acceptance, will come the temptations to want to go back to what they came out of. The silence of the spouse is most important during this time-all you can do is be understanding and patient with them as this MUST happen and they MUST come through alone.
They will SEEM to be going backward, but aren't, this is necessary for them to move forward.
It is during this time they will "revisit" ALL stages of the Mid Life Crisis except Denial and shuts the "doors" to each stage PERMANENTLY one by one, never to return.
If they give in to temptation OR get spooked by their final fears, they WILL run BACK into the tunnel a little ways. But they can only run back as far as the doors have NOT been closed permanently; most of the time they just run back as far as WITHDRAWAL, but will continue the process to come out once they feel "safe" to continue. So, they must be allowed to come through WITHOUT interruption, no matter what happens.

Stage THREE involves the "archway" I spoke of in the Stage of Withdrawal-all this time the Mid Lifer has been coming across this open field toward this Archway, where his "final fears" are located and he finally begins to face these fears in full-he may come out of the tunnel and face them BEFORE he/she shuts the door to Depression/Withdrawal or afterwards. But he/she will have to face them, nevertheless, before he exits to begin his/her complete healing process.

It takes awhile for the Mid Lifer to get settled down, even after he/she comes out of stage three of the Acceptance stage-they will experience a final "rebelling" before they settle down for good.

It is much like a teenager who has passed into manhood/womanhood-there are still final changes that must be made, especially for the one who has done so much damage during the crisis itself.

But if he/she can settle everything within themselves, their lives should be marked with a sense of peace, instead of the anguish they have known for as long as they were within the crisis. And they will have learned many things concerning life, and will be changed permanently as they will NEVER be the same, ever again.

Not certain on how long it takes to complete, I just know it takes awhile to get things settled once again-possibly 6-9 months or so, and I'm just guessing.



I really don't know what else to say Barbie, I feel so much for you.  I hope your H keeps going with his renewal and that HB's acceptance explanation helps a little.

Sending huge hugs for strength.

(((((((Hugs)))))))
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.80 (Denjef's thread)

Online Whyus

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2018, 01:15:31 AM »
Im so sorry Barbie. You have been through so much...
Ive just read the last 2 pages or so and wanted to suggest that going away for the Weekend is a good idea, then I read more and thought "firetruck going away with him for a Weekend".
After reading SFs post (I had obviously read it 3-4 times before) im a Little confused. It makes good reading but when it happens it must be a nightmare watching somebody go back into the tunnel. Does this mean that we can expect another OW/OM and just accept it as it has to be done? How much are we supposed to take?

I can understand how this could be a jobstopper for alot of LBSs who have already seen so much and are already on the "last Chance"!
What a horrible Situation, i send you all the spare strength that I have left (I unfortunately Need to Keep some for myself).
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2018, 07:14:10 AM »
Thank you all and I have read everything that is said to me. I have posted very little "drama scenes" over the past year or two as it still remain embarrassing to some degree , what I have tolerated . That is about ME and I do know that many LBS struggled with " what the hell is wrong with me" that I have put up with shattering lies, less than transparent behaviors, sneaky ragefull and blaming spouses. Why have I tolerated the deepest human betrayal of an affair? Why? Is it that I lack self esteem, that I somehow deserve this, that I have an extreme abandonment that will tie me to this no matter what? WHAT is wrong with ME is a question that all of us ask ourselves. I am no different . HS is some ways "keeps" us justifying why we stay...it does. It explains in ways that we can "justify" looking the other way because this behaviour is "normal" . It pulls on us to be compassionate , it can gives us an excuse to keep staying in the intolerable risking our health...in everyway . It almost makes us failures if we "quit" ...even if quitting is by far the wisest thing to do. There are women "standing" in someone elses bull$h!te for 6, 7 ..8 years , or more. HS can enable us to do that ..always have us wrestling internally with being a good "stander" or being a "bad " quitter. Sometimes we support each other with "detach" from the fact he is screwing every wh*r^ in town, blew the family fortune , gave us an STD and his children will be in therapy for the rest of their lives with FOO issues we allowed happen to them. HS can become an addiction of its own ...where we come when we need to be told how strong we are, how we can "do this" or interpretations of the inanity we cling to . It can create co-dependant behaviors in women that are trying to save families that the other is sabattoging and tearing down brick by brick. We are told not to "react" to the emotional stabbings that explode our souls and see ourselves as "less than " if we allow human emotions to be seen... we "screwed up". There is applause to be given to heros spouse and I say that with a gratitude and a sincere knowing that this place saved my life .. and that is the truth. BUT , it also has a side that we need to question ...if we are truly doing "mirror " work. ... That is where I am . I understand "standing" as noble and loving and and a rare gift of time to those who have been injured and lost their way . I was a proud stander and I have told my husband ..he received a gift out of my anguish. But.... and there is always a but..we do come to a crossroads when we realize we have not truly been listening , not truly heard ourselves. I am at the "snapline" and I am happy and peacefull about that . I am strong enough now ( thank you HS) to really walk into my future with or without him . I can feel it is my heart and it is utterly fabulous !
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline GonerinGhana

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2018, 07:43:39 AM »
I think any forum is a sum of its members. You can say what you want about HS, but I think it is important to distinguish between the shared behaviors and advice that seems to get passed around in the forum vs RCR's or even HB's articles. I learn a lot by reading about others' experiences with their MLCers, but I think a lot of people are handling the situation badly and  if I were to follow what some of my peers here are doing and advising I would not be in a good position I sometimes feel like reading the forum can play with my mind. And at that point I go back to HB's articles and search for her old posts here and they help keep me on track, because her articles at least in my case are spot on and she has not failed me yet. One has to remember what is posted in this forum is not professional or necessarily even good advice, so one has to take it all with a grain of salt.


Online Whyus

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2018, 07:48:19 AM »
Wow, Another Great honest Post Barbie.
I have sometimes felt like a quitter for Shopping my stand but ist the right Way för me and thats all that counts
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Online Treasur

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2018, 08:09:13 AM »
I think, Barbie, that your honesty is about being Real. And your 'snapline' could be a breakthrough for you, wherever it takes you.

Each of us figures out the 'standing' and 'how much is enough' thing individually as we go. For me, I've been profoundly grateful that I haven't dealt with some of the face-to-face stuff others have or the constant MLC watching. I've also looked at some of the stories of reconciliation and wondered if it's worth it to even want that, if the truth is that - and I'm just speaking for myself - my H will never be the man he was even if he recovered. That he is sullied somehow. So, IDK if he will recover or what kind of man will come out the other side, but it will be someone who has done the things he has done regardless of whether he's with me or someone else. Hard to live with for him; hard to live with for a spouse.

HS has, like you, helped me not lose my mind. And it has helped me stand up again. And it has helped me to decide that my beloved is mentally disordered, that it explains but does not excuse, but it allows me to feel compassion for someone I love and have loved for 20 years. That's a different choice from living with certain behaviours or repairing a relationship after them IMHO.

I hope that this therapy is a sort of 'unplugging' for you, irrespective of your relationship, that the timing allows it to be part of your healing x
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2018, 09:24:47 AM »
Following along Barbie. Just caught up. So sorry that you are having a tough time. But it seems to be getting better. I know it's hard too look at it like that with all the struggles still there.
Wishing yall the best and sending you strength.

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2018, 10:18:15 AM »
He was here this morning when I woke up...even though he had a 7 am meeting on a construction site . I thought he would be long gone...I slept in the spare room. He made coffee, said good morning and as he does  he "checks the temperature or the mood"... he rarely gets that right. He believes if you talk and have coffee and la la la ...all is well again. Another " Storm passed". He most certainly does not have that right either. But , what I have noticed about me ...is the state of "fight or flight" passes now, I am not stuck there for days. I have thanks god for that numerous times...because that was pushing me closer and cloer to the edge. I had no anxiety , I was calm and not angry. I am ok. ( again God...thanks for seeing me ) . I want to say...that I haved loved my husband in ways that push me forward to feel that again. That is the dangling carrot for me ...I want to feel THAT love , that safety , that security again. I want that. That is why I stay . I stay because I can glean some understanding and I can fill with compassion some days .. for him. I understand him just a tiny bit more everyday.. and I know " he is living his life as a result of all of lifes experiences " and for him...they have been very very bad indeed.

In therapy yesterday ..just such a sad sad moment. He said to the therapist " I am a good man ... despite everything I have done a good job , I have always done my best always . I have done all the best of me to my daughters , I have not hurt them and they are awesome and they love me ...I did a good job no matter what . I did a good job as a husband ...I have majorly screwed up... but I am GOOD". Oh my... saw a tear trickle. She asked me about that ... she asked me if I "thought that was true of this man sitting here ". This is where his soul is dying of starvation, this is the constant need for praise, affirmation, acknowledgement .. this is now the little boy in the big man costume waiting waiting waiting... for me to feed the broken parts of this child. "Yes .. he has done the most awesome job in so many many ways...he has. He is all those good things he sees in his rear view mirror ...yes he has been good. He has much to be proud of ". Filled with choking compassion for him and 30 years of memories of true sacrifice a good man and father does. I always always remember loading our van with 4 little girls to go shopping for work boots for him. He desperately needed boots. We came home with 4 snowsuits ... and no boots , and he was so content with that . For weeks he asked them..."how do you like your beautiful new snow suites ?, Are you warm? Do you like them?' ...just to feed himself the affirmation that he is "good". He is... at his core GOOD. And I have never lost site of that . Never. He has so desperately lost something of himself ... and he hurts me. So, there is the endless battle for me . Or LBS . We know who they are , who they have been and with can physically experience such compassion , warmth and hurt for them. But... they hurt us. He hurt me..in ways that may well be irrepairable . I guess.. which is bigger . The hurt or the compassion, grace and understanding ? Which is bigger to me ? That decides the status of standing ... for me. And right now... its even . They are both equally "big".

When I feel judged by others about staying with a cheater .. I can soothe myself by saying .."you just don't know the snowsuit story ... and many memories exactly the same".
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:34:42 AM by barbiedoll »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2018, 11:21:20 AM »
You are so right Barbie. Nobody knows or understands why we stay. Not even close family. Only we knkw what is real and just how good it was. Alk the how good it was!!! Is whats keeps me going.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2018, 02:11:01 PM »
He is... at his core GOOD. And I have never lost site of that . Never. He has so desperately lost something of himself ... and he hurts me. So, there is the endless battle for me . Or LBS . We know who they are , who they have been and with can physically experience such compassion , warmth and hurt for them. But... they hurt us. He hurt me..in ways that may well be irrepairable . I guess.. which is bigger . The hurt or the compassion, grace and understanding ? Which is bigger to me ? That decides the status of standing ... for me. And right now... its even . They are both equally "big".

When I feel judged by others about staying with a cheater .. I can soothe myself by saying .."you just don't know the snowsuit story ... and many memories exactly the same".

This resonates BIG time for me.  I think I am really good at the compassion for him part but not so good at acknowledging the part where he hurts/has hurt me.  I think that's why reconciliation is so dang hard.  You are right there with all the triggers being reminded of it all the time.  Over in standing land, we can glorify their good bits when we don't see them everyday.  We can heal over a bit too.  You never really got that chance.

I really see you going over new ground now Barbie.  Not that I necessarily saw you 'recycling' or anything.  Things take a while to process but you just feel like you are really getting to the base levels of the onion  ;D
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D17, D15 and S14

Now offering Coaching to LBS at http://clarebrownlifecoach.com.au/
40% off for Hero Spouse Members

Time to pay it forward!

Online 1trouble

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2018, 02:25:03 PM »
When I feel judged by others about staying with a cheater .. I can soothe myself by saying .."you just don't know the snowsuit story ... and many memories exactly the same".

Very Powerful stuff thank you x
you NEVER know how strong you are, until being strong is the ONLY choice you have"

As long as your husband is still alive, God and the Universe, have a thousand ways to bring him back.

It all begins in your mind.
What you give power to has the power over you.

IF YOU LET IT!!

Offline Anjae

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2018, 03:57:44 PM »
I'm sorry Barbie. I truly do not know how to help you anymore.

Both you and your husband have seen several professionals and they also weren't able to help you. Your situation is beyond my skills.

Still, agree with Savoir Faire, your husband is out of the tunnel and in what HB calls Acceptance.

An MLCrer behaviour is not normal. It is normal within the context of MLC. Nothing is MLC behaviour is normal.

GG, the forum is for shared journeys/opinions. The articles, RCR & HB, provide a frame. However, they do apply to every situation.

HS desclaimer leaves it clear posters aren't professionals. And even if they are, they are not posting in a professional capacity. However, RCR and HB also aren't professionals. They are not trained therapists or health professionals. 


Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2018, 05:16:03 PM »
SF..

Quote
It seems your H is out of the tunnel but still not fully accountable for his actions and there is still blame on his part.

His love language seems to be Acts of Service?  He is obviously feeling guilty.  Take the weekend away with him and try to stay calm if you can.  He really does need to stop blaming, open up more and readdress his FOO issues.
.

Thanks very much for the "acceptance " post... I honestly do not think I have read that before.

I believe at times that if a person is very reliant on compartmentalization...they have not given much thought ( if any at all ) to the issues that ought to keep him awake at night. I have seen it time and time again..where I have been full of anxiety or worried and "expect" ( stupid expectations) that he is horribly stressed out , and yet when I ask him ..he often says " I never even think about that ". WTF? . I am not sure full accountability is realized when you just bury it somewhere in your brain and rarely think ( or face ) it. Just an observation that I have seen over and over. Perhaps this explains some of the lack of forthought in MLC.
His LL is actually extremely high in words of affirmation and physical touch... One of mine is acts of service...and he is a "people pleaser"...to no end .

MC...thank for the support .

Quote
I don't understand much about transference, but assume I will with time.
.

My husband has ACOA Trauma Syndrome and it really is all about transference ... I am finally getting that thru my brain. This short video is the most brilliant description I have ever seen .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZKto4SYts

Anjae

Quote
What I have noticed is that therapy always seems to bring more problems for you and your husband.

Do you really think therapy is worthy?
.

I have asked myself this question. Yes therapy stirs up all the sh$t that settles to the bottom...being avoided and unresolved. I don't want it there waiting to come to the surface some day ... Not for me. I want it out by the "roots" ..so the saying goes. I do not want to live in years of resentment, unknowns and fear. You know " you have to walk thru it ... ". Not ignore it. My opinion.

Whyus..

Quote
firetruck going away with him for a Weekend".
.

This just made me have such a laugh .. yeah been there and back again ..now back to the firetruck part . lol! .. But in learning to take care of myself I will go. I will go because the couple that we would go see live on a comfy old farm and I enter such solace and peace there ...I cannot describe. And my lady-friend there has been a gift from god thru this entire journey . I just am very excited about her company and her long chats by the fire with Jasmine tea. So, I will go...for me .

Quote
Does this mean that we can expect another OW/OM and just accept it as it has to be done? How much are we supposed to take?
.

This was my HUGEST FEAR  ... another affair?  I am supposed to line myself up for more of that ??  .   But now.. honest to god I rarely think about it that way at all. I am still struggling with his affair.. I would be a liar if I said different. But, if my husbands intention is to have another affair , if he is so screwed up to ever throw himself on that sword again... nothing , and I do mean NOTHING will change that . ZERO. I found out about his 1st affair by such an extreme fluke .. I believe I would find out again. Plus now I know the signs and to never doubts my "gut" again. And I do know the exact outcome if he should ever do that again... there would be no question. So, no part of my brain ever feels that fear at all. Thanks for your gift of strength !

Quote
That's a different choice from living with certain behaviours or repairing a relationship after them IMHO.
.

I think this is very true .

Quote
I hope that this therapy is a sort of 'unplugging' for you, irrespective of your relationship, that the timing allows it to be part of your healing x
Modify message
.

The most important word in this statement is "irrespective". Yes. For me I am healing. Inside of me ... no matter what another person does, thinks, says or belives . I am my biggest priority. Slowly I am learning that . Thank you .

Helpingme

Quote
Wishing yall the best and sending you strength
.

Thank you... I am piling up some strength here from all of you ! I do appreciate !

Hopeandfaith

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Over in standing land, we can glorify their good bits when we don't see them everyday.  We can heal over a bit too.  You never really got that chance.
.

My ( his actually) crisis was at warp speed. Time and time again my therapist reminds me to "slow down", I do not need to heal as fast as he broke. I was on my own for a total of 93 days... mirror work? Adjustment"  ?   No. I believe I was in emotional shock, and then he was back. I try to do my healing at the same time as grieving , at the same time as re-connecting with a massive trigger?   It is a sh%t-show . How could it not be?    Thank you .

my dearest Anjae...

Quote
I'm sorry Barbie. I truly do not know how to help you anymore.
.

But YOU do!  Healing begins the moment we feel heard . Its like magic...and endlessly you have listened . I thank you for that.
And so appreciative there is never any frustration . Right ?







Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline barbiedollTopic starter

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  • Gender: Female
Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2018, 05:24:14 PM »
I think this is worth a watch , by all of us . Not just those with husbands that have ACOA Trauma Syndrome.  It is all about FOO issues no matter what the exact nature of them may be. It's about how they surface later in life, how they are played out as adults and blamed on spouse . Its about MY life ... this is my husband 100% per cent .  Transferance is alive and well at my house . Not sure how anyone can "help " with this Anjae . This will be HIS lifelong struggle and his responsibility to work on. I get to decide if I want to be the passenger on that ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZKto4SYts
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Anjae

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  • Gender: Female
Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 06:12:36 PM »
I have asked myself this question. Yes therapy stirs up all the sh$t that settles to the bottom...being avoided and unresolved. I don't want it there waiting to come to the surface some day ... Not for me. I want it out by the "roots" ..so the saying goes. I do not want to live in years of resentment, unknowns and fear. You know " you have to walk thru it ... ". Not ignore it. My opinion.

I understand your point of view. It wouldn't work for me. Not because I would brush it aside, but because for me, things are said once, maybe twice, then life is to be lived without keep picking the scab, dig deeper. Different people need/respond/have results to/with different ways.

But YOU do!  Healing begins the moment we feel heard . Its like magic...and endlessly you have listened . I thank you for that.
And so appreciative there is never any frustration . Right ?

Listen I can do. Right.

Thanks for the link.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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  • Posts: 2077
  • Gender: Female
Re: Dear Future...I Think I am Ready Now.
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 09:41:00 PM »
I can soothe myself by saying .."you just don't know the snowsuit story ... and many memories exactly the same".

This
The 'snowsuit stories'...years of those moments...are part of the dissonance for LBS and MLC alike aren't they? How can we reconcile our spouse as GOOD and also face without flinching that they did the things they did? How can they?

One of my deep sorrows for my H - irrespective of what happened to us - is that he has rewritten his own life story. He will never be able to say truthfully, as he could for 18 years, that he was a loving faithful husband and a truly good friend to others who never chose to lie, steal or deliberately hurt people who cared about him. He was...but that's no longer the whole truth. Making sense of that is hard for both, I think.
BD - Oct 15, mostly silent vanishing husband, diagnosed with severe depression in Dec 15 & seeing psychiatrist/on ADs since then
OW since Apr 16, maybe earlier?
H filed Jan 17.
80/20 strategy for me in 2018

"her soul is fierce, her heart is brave, her mind is strong." R.H Sin
Grace is...Elegance, good will, unearned blessings, a prayer of thanks and how to address a duchess.
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg


 

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