Author Topic: My Story D&J 4 or 5?  (Read 1426 times)

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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My Story D&J 4 or 5?
« on: April 09, 2018, 10:11:13 AM »
I cant remember which thread # this is, but there have been a few. Thunder I never thought about the idea of an open house.  I'm really shocked that by her actions yesterday.  Once I began to stay away from her, quit pursuing her, and she figured out that I was making plans to leave, she nearly came full circle and now wants to be kind to each other.  I was floored when she said she loved me.  I know I have to get away from her either by her leaving, or me.  My kids have 6 weeks left in school, really 5 1/2 as the last week is 2 days of wrapping things up.  I would like to get them through school if I can, before we make a move.  Both kids have said if I move they want to go with me.  I keep telling the kids what's going on isn't their fault, and that their mom loves them.  My 13 year old daughter said "dad you can stop saying that, if she loved us she wouldn't disappear all the time".  I tried to explain to my daughter that's because of me, not her, but the kids are looking at it as we are all her victims.  I know deep down she loves her kids, she was a terrific mother for 13 years.  I'm just at the point where I don't even like being around her really.  I realize this new found kindness is following the MLC script.  If she would stop monstering on the kids, I could probably live with her as a friend, and see where this goes, but I doubt this new found peace will last long.

Previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10000.0
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 10:20:31 AM by Thunder »

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 10:47:38 AM »
I guess option 3 (which is very unlikely to work IMHO based on her current behaviour but you might tactically want to offer it and even document that you have) is to take her BS as if you believe it and say 'ok, as you've said, you're obviously struggling and the kids are the No 1 priority, so if you make an IC appt in next week and commit to getting regular IC help as they advise, stop any contact with OM, we sleep separately and if you can behave more calmly with me and the kids, we can give it a month and review where we are...but if you can't commit and stick to that, then I'll have to look at different options to protect the kids'.

If it isn't a full-blown MLC, if she isn't so emotionally disordered that she can only think of herself...you could propose it. I suspect - even if she says yes - she won't stick to it and you'll need to go to your next best option which should be based on L advice and your kid's best interests.

The trick DD - and I think you're getting to this point now, tough as it is - is that YOU choose the options and boundaries, putting your kids first, followed by your wellbeing and your family finances. No joint decisions, no waiting for her to decide, no words without actions. The potential impact on your kids and you is too serious now. The needs of the 3 outweigh the needs of the 1 IMHO.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 01:03:12 PM »
I think your right.  Tomorrow may be another story, but I actually enjoyed my day at work today and found myself laughing a few times.  Of course I still had moments of sadness, but nothing to the extent that I was. I think I am getting stronger in some regards, which is allowing me to finally start taking a stand on things.  It helps to know that there are other women who are interested in me too, gives me some feeling of still being a man.  I think one of the hardest parts was wondering how she could go from me with a good job, good credit, a home, 2 cars, college education, to a guy who is bankrupt and essentially has no car.  I wondered where I went wrong.  I am on my way home from work now, my daughter is on her way home from school, well all be getting home about the same time, it will be interesting to see how the night unfolds.

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 01:06:55 PM »
Wishing you well, DD. This whole thing is so volatile. The minute by minute, hour by hour or day by day person we go home to is just insanity!
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

Offline 20thcenturygirl

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 03:05:29 PM »
Quote
I realize this new found kindness is following the MLC script.  If she would stop monstering on the kids, I could probably live with her as a friend, and see where this goes, but I doubt this new found peace will last long.

Is this part of the "script" - my H has started being nicer and more communicative suddenly.  He is still not himself but he is being more cooperative - still depressed and being strange to our daughter. 
Is this just normal then?  I had begun to think that maybe because I am no longer getting the monster all of the time he wasn't really in MLC.

You sound like a great Dad, Devastated.  I am so glad you are getting stronger too. 
H 62
Me 51
BD October 31st 2017
Three months of confusion & coming & going
Left Home December 28th 2017
OW living the life with him January 31st 2018 - met her whilst walking dogs, and it is really, really an affair down!
He denies she exists

Offline OffRoad

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 03:17:03 PM »
One of the things someone posted here (I think it was nah's son who said it) was they the MLCer wasn't looking for someone better than the LBS, they were looking for someone worse than themself. Believe it. What decent person would  have an affair with a married person?

You didn't cause this, you can't fix it. You can only do what is best for you and your kids.

When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Rosetintedglasses

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2018, 04:42:13 PM »
DD

Glad to hear you getting stronger. Try to tell the children your W is unhappy inside, rather than unhappy with you as you haven’t said or acted in any way to make her like this. It’s not their fault and it’s not yours. She is unhappy inside herself.

Hope the kindness pledge keeps up, I like it
Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - Oct 2016
BD2 - May 2017
ILYBINILWY - June 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017
EA with same MOW Jan 2017 until ?
Left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents

Online Helpingme!

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2018, 07:48:43 PM »
DD
I would tell your kids their momma is fighting issues with herself. Nothing too do with you.
Off-road said it right, they are looking for someone as miserable as they are, that's hard too find my friend. Yep, they are usually at the bottom of the barrel.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 12:42:31 AM »
Quote
Is this part of the "script" - my H has started being nicer and more communicative suddenly.  He is still not himself but he is being more cooperative - still depressed and being strange to our daughter. 

Yes - it's part of the process rather than the script.  The script refers to the uncannily similar language and sentence structure that all MLCers seem to use.

MLCers cannot stay in full monster mode for ever and there are blue periods in the replay stages. Blue periods are where they either go quiet or become civil and almost "normal" . However they do not last long and soon return to monster in the early stages. Eventually monster dwindles as the replay stages progresses and there is a new " normal" which is still not your original pre BD spouse but at least monster is fading...

Remember there is nice monster, angry monster, sarcastic monster, devious monster - all kinds of behaviour that is out of the norm for your spouse that creates havoc and upset is monster.

DD -  Her breakdown is interesting and you should see it for what it is at a surface level only.  Yes it does give insight into her crazy MLC mind which, remember, is more than likely rooted in severe depression. However you should realise that everything she does or says is transitory and that arriving at any agreement is not going to happen.

Nevertheless I fully appreciate your dilemma having had a stay at homer who was adamant that he was staying but fully expected to have his own life including OW is soul destroying.  It is almost impossible to think that you would have to make a decision such as selling the home etc...  I think you are right - if you sell do it so that you can move in the holidays.  The less disruption you can cause for your children the better; God knows they have witnessed enough already.

You have to take control in the house though in the meantime.  Do not be fooled into any R talks - she may now try to do that to manipulate you. Decide what you want to do for now ie take your bed back and then work on that. One way to do it is to move her stuff out of the room (I did when I put H in the spare room), change the bedlinen and turn that into your space.

She won't like it but as she has now acknowledged that you have been making plans, she will sort of expect it.  Be prepared for more monster and when she does stand firm , look her in the eyes and say " I'm sorry you feel that way, but this is my house and I will decide where I sleep. You chose to leave the marriage - you can leave the bed!"   Repeat ad nauseum when she blusters.  She'll get the message.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 05:55:14 AM »
Wow great insight into her mind.  Your right that there are several different monsters.  I have seen her be devious and tell me she was going to her girlfriends, when in reality she went to the OM, she had the strangest sly look on her face that gave her away (completely not the pre-MLC wife).  Then there is the weird sex monster, she can't get enough sex, or attention all of a sudden.  This has resulted into a sexual harassment investigation at her work, her boss is under investigation, the executive director under investigation, and the OM is a co-worker (this certainly wasn't pre-MLC wife). Then there is the all out rage monster where she gets angry, yells, throws a tantrum, usually about stupid stuff like me falling asleep on the couch.  In 13 years I have never known her to be any of these ways, she has even lost her best friend because she has changed so much.

Last night was interesting.  I have a finished basement with a 70" tv.  I have started spending my free time down there the last two days, and its driving her nuts.  She kept making references about how her feet and calves hurt (if you remember I used to rub them nightly).  She also made a comment about eating out too much (I used to make dinner nightly).  She also got upset that when me and the kids did laundry we didn't clean hers.  I can see where she is starting to realize maybe I wasn't so bad, or at least provided services she took for granted.

I like the idea of telling my kids that mom is unhappy with herself.  My 13 year old daughter and I took a car ride last night because she wanted to talk.  She told me she has been seeing the counselor at school, and there is a group of teens who meet weekely called kids in the middle.  She said it was for kids whos parents were divorcing or going through issues.  She asked if she could go, but not tell mom, because she was worried mom would get mad.  My W gets made when any of us discuss this with anyone.  She got upset with me notifying the kids teachers, so the teachers could look for signs of them starting to fail.  She also got upset because I discuss this with my sister.  At the same time I've seen her messages where she tells the OM all kinds of lies about me and the kids, as well as talking to other friends.  Anyway, my daughter told me that she knows mom is cheating.  I told her that I didn't know that for sure (even though I do) and that no matter what mom and dad both love her and her brother.  She told me that she knew, and that she has lost all respect for her mom.  She told me I was an amazing dad, that she loved me, wanted to live with me if I move, and that she will still love her mom, but she doesn't trust her, or believe anything she will ever say again.  I was floored.  Naturally it made me feel good, but the insight my 13 year old daughter has is amazing.  She also told me that she was tired of her mom being mean to her and her brother, and that she was going to start giving it back to her mom.  I explained the idea of monstering, and that getting mad and giving it back would just result in more pain for my daughter.  I told her if things are too bad, and she can't take it anymore, that we will move.  She said she has talked about this with her little brother and that her brother is peeing his pants because he's scared to come out of his room, afraid that his mom might yell at him for something.  This is a terrible situation.

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 06:08:08 AM »
That is so sad, Dev.  About your son being that afraid of her.  It just breaks my heart.

I told you before, kids are not stupid.  Your D knows what's going on.

I think it's great you are doing nothing for her.  Just let her see no one is going to cater to her anymore. 
No more leg rubs, no more washing her clothes or cooking for her.  Nope...none of it.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 06:48:28 AM »
I think the medicine Im taking must be kicking in, or I'm coming to terms with reality, because the last few days I have felt stronger and able to ignore her.  Two months ago I begged her to stay, followed her around like a puppy dog, and was doing everything I could to nice her back into the relationship (all the mistakes).  I look at her now and she is so depressed, sad, and angry all of the time.  Since coming home she told me how hard it was to live at her friends, how hard it was to be poor, and how hard it was to make it on her own.  This gave some inspiration too, because it made me realize everything wasn't going good for her.  When this first happened she was on cloud nine, happy as could be, while I say at home and cried.  I couldn't understand how she had no response and didn't care, now the roles are reversing and her worlds falling apart.  It appears the initial thrill of cheating has worn off, maybe because I know about it and am making plans to move on, and she has become super depressed, vicious to the kids, and just a mean person.  I feel bad for taking comfort in her pain, because I care about her, but its soo nice to see her cheating world isn't roses and rainbows anymore.

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 06:56:22 AM »
DD, so glad that strength is building! It's weird about the seeing any glimpses of their demise, isn't it? Like, I don't want my W to suffer, yet I want her to really FEEL what she has really done. But mostly just to wake up and start becoming the person that our kids deserve.
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 07:21:09 AM »
As hard as that is to watch, they NEED to feel the consequenses of the actions and choices, other wise nothing changes.

It's part of the crisis and something you can not and should not stop.  You can be kind, but you can not take their consequences away.  They have to deal with them all by themselves.

Dev, your W is starting to realize what she wanted wasn't happening, instead she is about to lose her family.  That fear is real because you are now getting stronger.  You will eventually do what you need to do for your family, not her and she may just have to deal with it to start getting better.

With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline gman242

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 07:51:33 AM »
  I tried to explain to my daughter that's because of me, not her, but the kids are looking at it as we are all her victims.

I've been trying to sneak in a reply for quiet a while. I think you've touched on this in several places.

I know as spouses, we weren't perfect, nobody was.. but did you disappear for days, night and hours? Did you yell and scream at everyone telling them, they made you miserable and you deserve whatever it is you're doing?

I know the answer is the no. In no way did anything you do, justify what is going on. I know in your heart of hearts, you blame you (which you shouldn't, I know, easier said then done) but to your kids, you should kindly place the blame where it belongs, on your W. Your daughter is right, you're all victims and as an adult, you can deal with this, get your bearings and move on, but to you kids, they are 10 times the victims you'll ever be.

I think when I realized that, I found my strength. It took a while, I won't lie, but a mature, solid person who loves you and respects you, wouldn't be doing this and they wouldn't be dragging the kids through it either. Sure, things don't work out, but you try, honestly, to fix things and go through due process and save the kids from what collateral damage you can.

At this point though, it's an MLC and it's an all out war that's on your shoulders to be stable and pass that on to your kids.

It's hard not to care, not to comb through everything and find some little thing that could have been changed to prevent all of this and the truth is, it doesn't exist. Two people have to want to fix or have the relationship. You held firm on your end, she went off the rails. It's her, not you.

Depending on how old your kids are, I would be honest with them and not shield them from the truth. I would be neutral in tone, simplify just give them the facts and allow them to explore their feelings with you and respect and validate any decision or feelings they have. It's not your job to protect both them and their mom from each other. But you need to be the role model too and not bad mouth your W.

It was important to me that my son was allowed to see things as they are and that he was allowed to develop his own thoughts and feelings and that i also respected them. Like you said though, kids are smart and they already have it figured out. it will be worse later for them to find out you lied to them (even if you thought it was in their best interests), because right now, everything is lies and betrayal to both you and them.

That's just my opinion, take it or leave it, but at the least, please don't say "it's because of me" either to them or yourself, because it simply isn't true.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 07:55:45 AM by gman242 »

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 09:04:16 AM »
I agree 100% with what Gman said.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 05:32:33 PM »
Everything you guys said makes sense.  I thought she was being a little too nice today then she told me she is done with the OM.  Believe it or not she said that she asked him and another co-worker to go to lunch at work and they said no, that she was under investigation, and it wouldn't look appropriate LMAO.  First off I can't believe she actually said this to me, but the fact that the OM won't be seen in public with her tops it all! This explains why she has made her way back home.  I can't believe this, no one in their right mind would say something like this to their H.

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 06:12:30 PM »
You did say in her right mind.  :)  ::)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Whyus

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 10:53:53 PM »
Oh Dev, it Looks like you are starting to see the real Picture unfold before your eyes...
Just Keep on breathing and protecting those Kids. You will be just fine mate, believe me.
So, now the burning question. Have you got the bed back yet?? You really Need to do this, for yourself, for the Kids and for your W. She Needs to see that your a man who wont put up with her $h!te any longer. It will do her good in the Long run...
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 11:48:13 PM »
Quote
First off I can't believe she actually said this to me, but the fact that the OM won't be seen in public with her tops it all! This explains why she has made her way back home.  I can't believe this, no one in their right mind would say something like this to their H.

Exactly and this is why you forge forward with your life and leave her to it.....   Do not believe for one instance that she is done with OM - MLCers are very good at saying one thing and then doing the complete opposite within a heartbeat!

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2018, 05:43:16 AM »
Whyus, I think I have the bed back.  I have slept in it the last two nights.  The problem is I think I was actually getting stronger sleeping on the couch.  The last two nights I've been in bed she has been snuggling against me, wrapping her legs around me, and being loving (maybe she is half asleep and thinks I'm OM LOL).  Sleeping on the couch I felt there was a clearer division between us, and I was actually sleeping without the aid of sleep medicine.  The problem with sleeping in bed with her is it confuses me.  I forget for a moment what is going on and I hug back, automatically say I love you, and slip back into what was our normal pattern.  When I wake up fully it dawns on me that this is all still going on, and nothing has really changed.  I still want my family together, but I have started to develop a strong opposing feeling of wanting to be away from her.  If you all remember I could barely make it to work, or through a work day a few months ago, my job was in real jeopardy. The last few weeks I have actually looked forward to going to work, have been getting a lot done, and they have stopped approaching me about my issues at work.  I have even found myself laughing at work, which I haven't done in 6 months.  So, I know things are changing for me mentally, which could be the result of my medicine finally kicking in, but I'm somewhat afraid of being so close to her again in the bed.

As far as the OM, I still cannot understand her attraction to him.  When they first started seeing each other I discovered a note from her to him saying she was dissatisfied, that she thought he would be different, romantic, and do things with her in public.  Here we are 6 months later and he still doesn't want to be seen with her.  If I told her I didn't want to be seen in public with her, but I wanted to shag her late night anyway, she would smack me in the face and walk out the door.  Her chasing him, giving him what he wants, and allowing herself to be abused is not her.  I guess this isn't really my problem anymore.  I guess I need to be looking for a way out.  She is definitely clinging to my finances and house as she has nowhere else to go.  Last night she was talking about getting botox for her forehead wrinkles.  I'm thinking how are you going to do that when you cant even get an apartment.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2018, 05:49:29 AM »
Do whatever works for you, DD.
But I'd make sure that you're not paying for her botox  ::)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2018, 07:00:11 AM »
I agree, what ever makes you more comfortable, do!  You have the bed back but not by yourself.  Not so good.

She apparently thinks nothing of cuddling up to you.  No feelings there.  It's really sad.  Any woman KNOWS what that does to a guy, so don't let her fool you.  She's trying to make you weak.

So as much as we hounded you to take back your bed if it's really better to sleep on the couch alone then fine, better than sleeping with her like that.  Hopefully she isn't going to hound you about being on the couch.    If she does..remember just..."whatever" turn around and go back to sleep.  Ignore

This is all about you and the kids now, Dev. 
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline The Navigator

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2018, 07:06:06 AM »
DD,

Really sorry you're facing this.  I've cut and pasted the following from your very first thread:

Quote
Since the end of January we have been living in the same house, have the same bank account, have sex on a regular basis (the sex is better than ever), and spend our free time together going on dates, hanging out with the kids, and just laying in bed talking.  It's weird because it's like nothing has changed, except she says that she still wants to live separate, raise the kids, and live in the same house for at least the next two years.  She is also sporadically talking to the OM.
Script.

I could have written it during my own situation and probably did.


Quote
Her friend also told me that J admitted to not having an orgasm with the OM, that he had health issues which prevented him from getting an erection sometimes, and that she has only had an orgasm with me
The exact same was so in my situation.

We also did everything together.

Very likely an MLC.

What was her upbringing and family environment like?
Bomb & Separation: 28th January 2008
Moved in with OM for 5 months
EA/PA persisted from 2008 to 2010
Kids: DS ( 8 ), DD ( 7 ) confirmed mine with paternity tests
Another DS born April 2017
MLC lasted 6-7 years

Online Helpingme!

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2018, 07:15:29 AM »
DD
I agree with Thunder. I remember telling Thunder my W was using her body and womanly charm too suck me back in.
I didn't even think my W had that in her too tease a man. Oh well, wrong again.
DD, I slept on that couch too,  just made it easier. As Thunder said, she then ask me too come back too bed, ha.
Do what makes you feel good. All that matters.
I remember telling Thunder it felt like my W was having an Affair with me, DD all sounds familiar and thinking back. Was she using me as OM,  probably so.
As you said, it's majes you sick why they let someone use them like that. They are not themselves DD. That is not your W as you know her.
I feel for you my friend. Thus stage is so hard. I got 2 small comforters on our bed DD. It's a King bed, but made it seem like 2 doubles. She may sneak over and snuggle up, but just wrap up in YOUR covers and turn your back too her.
It will get easier DD. Just hang in there jeep going.
You said work us better, that is a sign you are moving on.
Botox??? Lord help her. Just a temporary fix. Please dont waste you money on it.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2018, 07:19:53 AM »
DD,
W saying she didn't Orgasm with OM. Ha. I think they are all the same. Crazy ass Fruit Bats. All I said was Oh really, sounds like you picked a winner!!

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2018, 07:20:52 AM »
Botox for the forehead wrinkles....Mine wants that too. And a tummy tuck....and a breast augmentation.....and....the list goes on.....
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2018, 07:25:06 AM »
Hi DD
My ExW did all that. She even sneaked out once on our anniversary for a romantic lunch. I felt confused. Then that evening I cycled "she may just want some time but i can deal with this while she works out how to leave him" and then the next day i dound out she went out for dinner with OM and spent £80 on a it too. Guess who'd paid for lunch?It took another 6months for me to understand the term about MLC wears masks.. Once I understood when she was with me she wore the mask that I knew and heard all the things I wanted to hear. But is was just BS. Its all script. The boob job was another expence along with paying £75 and hour for a PT at the gym. She earns £110 per week. Pure Madness
You have come along way in a short time mate. Well done for that.
DW

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2018, 07:27:46 AM »
Helping, what a good idea.  2 blankets, one for her, one for you.  Or use a sleeping bag.  ha ha
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2018, 07:46:34 AM »
One of the first Things w done After BD  was Swap our King Size Quilt for 2 Single quilts. That was Evil and chewed me up bigtime...
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2018, 07:51:02 AM »
Thunder, I wrapped completely up like a sleeping bag, ha.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2018, 08:12:26 AM »
 ;D

Good thinkin'.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2018, 08:19:52 AM »
I like the separate blanket idea.  I think she is putting on the charm and telling me she's no longer interested in the other man because she's afraid of losing my funds.  I am up for a $10,000 raise next month, My Chief told me I'll likely get it even though the last few months have been rough, he understands that my performance the last few years has been meritorious.  On top of that I have picked up a part-time teaching job at a local university that will pay me an additional $1600 monthly for teaching 1 night a week.  This means I'll probably be bringing in an additional $2000 more a month than I am now, all extra cash, and she knows it.  I think the affair may be losing its luster too because its out in the open at work, and at home, and shes sees I don't really care anymore what she does.  I know she has been super depressed, and like I said that feels good lol.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2018, 08:57:50 AM »
Dev, it's too bad you told her about the raise and the extra part-time money.  She will definately be nice now but please don't let her fool you.

If I were you I'd put that money in your account, not a mutual account.  If she wants any tell her you put it in a savings account for the future because you don't know if you guys are going to make it and you may both need it to move.
Then see how she acts. See if the niceness continues.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2018, 09:01:21 AM »
I agree with Thunder...hide the cash  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2018, 09:13:03 AM »
DD, I have money hid at home. Yes, hide it, and don't tell her.
I think once we find out about the Affair it does kill the fun for them. Ws  OM was scared too once I found out. He didn't want her anymore.
Don't let her get too you. As I said my W faked it pretty good for 6 months. Once she seen I was seeming too be ok, off she went.
Stay your course my friend. It's going too be awhile.
Even after OM moved back in with his W, I know fantasy was still there.  Remember, they ACTUALLY think OM care a for them, and they think he is Romeo, they can't just drop the feelings in a day, or a week, it takes awhile. My W compared OM too a guardian angel, Lord help her.  Once it's just fantasy left, it does burn out quickly. Just hang in there and keep going as you are.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2018, 10:11:48 AM »
Yes, I have a separate account that the money will be deposited in.  Things are getting dangerous again, she just called me on her lunch break to talk.  She is literally at work with the OM right now and was telling me what a loser he is.  She hasn't done this since her fake turn around in January.  She is obviously trying to use me as the OM now.  She even told me she came home because she missed her family.  I'm glad I started feeling better the last few days or this would really have played havoc on my mind.  I'm worried though that I will fall for it at some point.

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2018, 10:16:33 AM »
Yes, I have a separate account that the money will be deposited in.  Things are getting dangerous again, she just called me on her lunch break to talk.  She is literally at work with the OM right now and was telling me what a loser he is.  She hasn't done this since her fake turn around in January.  She is obviously trying to use me as the OM now.  She even told me she came home because she missed her family.  I'm glad I started feeling better the last few days or this would really have played havoc on my mind.  I'm worried though that I will fall for it at some point.

You are so much more aware now. That should help you from falling for it. You are doing great, brother!
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2018, 10:27:06 AM »
I agree Dev, you are sounding so much stronger.

You won't be fooled again.
Like I said if she asks about the extra money and she is getting none of it, THEN see how nice she is.

If she remains nice then it wasn't the money.  If she gets all bent out of shape, then it was.
You'll know.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline BBhelp

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2018, 11:02:55 AM »
The fact that you are cognizant of the fact that she is trying to work you means you are getting to a better place.  She is trying to change the narrative because the old one was not working.  New tactics come into play whenever we start to figure them out...so just keep your eyes open and your heart closed for business for a while.

You are starting to see her "Angles" now...keep it up.

BB
First Thread:  Back After A Long Break http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8080.0

Random Thoughts From Hard Earned Lessons: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8194.0

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
Shes given me access to her phone and stated that she blocked him on facebook.  I don't get her motivation now, I don't care if she blocked him or not.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2018, 06:31:28 PM »
Maybe you should have handed her phone back and said.."I really don't care anymore."

I think the truth is Dev, she wanted and expected more from him and he rejected her, so you are the best option FOR NOW.

I hate saying that, I really do, but I believe is she still in her crisis and will be looking for OM2.
Just don't be sucked in.  She's not done yet.

Keep being strong.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2018, 06:06:04 AM »
Soooooo I get confronted by my boss yesterday who said the office received information that I was suicidal, homicidal, and doing drugs.  I was asked what was going on.  I asked who made the accusation and they would not tell me.  I said I guess you would have to ask the person making the accusation, because I'm fine, and not doing drugs, so I have no idea what they are talking about.  I was sent to take a drug test, which I am not worried about, but someone now has it out for me.  I told my W and she was floored because she realizes me losing my job will result in her and the kids not having a place to live.  Apparently she confronted the OM and he said it wasn't him, but she believes it was him.  She also believes, if you all remember, that he was the one who sent her bosses wife the letter saying he was having an affair with my W.  She thinks this because the investigator into the sexual harassment case at her work told her that the OM was the one who initially made them aware of the case.  It sounds like she has attracted an insane person that we all have to deal with now.  She told me over and over last night she was sorry.  She also told me this morning she was sorry for everything.  I am so tired now.  My job was starting to go really well and things were starting to look up, this is insanity.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2018, 06:11:18 AM »
Im so sorry for you dev but you shouldnt have anything to worry about... take the test, prove your clean and move on.. simple as.
Yes, he was certainly an AD  :o. What a tool and what was your W thinking? (stupid question, sorry).
It seemed to have shaken your W up for now which cannot be a bad side effect.

Nice to see you evolve mate  8)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2018, 06:20:21 AM »
You know you could always take him aside and let him know what is going on, or just ignore it.  You're good.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2018, 06:30:35 AM »
DD - first of all I'm sorry for the WTF insanity (remember that bit in my own life!)

Can't remember - does OM work with your wife? Do you know him personally? Does he have any other ways of contacting you or knowing about your life?

Do what you need to do at work to show this is groundless. I'd be tempted (without going into the details) to explain to your boss that your W is not well currently, has some new friends who seem to have created a drama at her workplace, that this is nothing to do with you or your kids and you intend to stay out of it.

And then I'd do that...block every possible link or connection to OM or W's new friends, be very careful about how you and your kids use social media or who you talk to etc...and you may now need a clear boundary with your W about how she intends to remove OM from her life (which might mean she needs a new job) as this is now a threat to your family's wellbeing...and that isn't acceptable.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2018, 07:32:34 AM »
The drug test came back clean today and they asked me again why someone would make these accusations.  I told them I don't know, ask that person.  They asked if I was suicidal, or if I was homicidal and I said no. If you recall I am a federal law enforcement officer in the United States, so they have to ask these questions, I guess.  my W realizes she made a huge mistake.  The OM does work with her.  She now knows that he was using her to try and get her boss fired, so he could take his spot, that he was only interested in sex with her (didn't want to be seen in public), and that he is probably the one now coming after our family.  She made the suggesting of quitting her job, and taking whatever she can find, just to get away from him.  She actually hugged me this morning and told me she loved me.  The problem is, he wasn't the only OM.  If you recall she met up with her childhood friend, who is in the military, before he was shipped off to Iraq for a year.  This happened about 2 months ago.  They had a one night stand and he also ignored her after that.  What I realize, and she seems to forget, is that she has been on the hunt for more than just the guy at work.  I think you are right Thundr, I am the OM right now, and she wants to be with me until she finds OM to me being OM lol.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2018, 08:00:17 AM »
Well, if it comes to it, you may need to tell them about the situation on your W's work, just so they know.

Maybe the idiot will knock it off now.
Is your W's job anything important, I mean does she make good money?  If not, maybe switching jobs might not be a bad idea.
What do you think?
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Whyus

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2018, 08:13:44 AM »
If I was a lae enforcement Officer i would have totally Ruined om by now ;D 8)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2018, 08:28:15 AM »
She did say she is willing to quit her job now. She does make decent money, she also works for the federal government in the US. It appears she might be serious about cutting ties with this guy, but he hasn’t been the only guy, so it doesn’t really matter to me, I guess.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2018, 08:37:48 AM »
OH no, I just meant to get away from the OM so he leaves your work alone.

She can find another OM anywhere so it doesn't matter where she works.  If it's a good job then maybe wait and see if this blows over and she drops him.

She may need that job when she moves out.   ;D ;D
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2018, 09:54:15 AM »
If I was a lae enforcement Officer i would have totally Ruined om by now ;D 8)

Whyus I get it, and many in my position would, but I've never been that guy.  I always took pride in the fact that I did things right, was fair to people, didn't lie, cheat, steal, or dishonor the profession.  I never beat anyone, or mistreated anyone, and it's actually saved me from getting killed a few times, when people on the street knew me as fair.  I always took pride in the fact that I could tell me son I did things right.  As tempting as it is I'm starting to see I don't like the person I've become in many aspects.  For instance, following my W, calling the OM, all that stuff I feel was still a mistake, and not a good example.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2018, 10:22:50 AM »
Aw Dev, I am so proud of the kind of person you are.  Law Enforcement is lucky to have you, and your kids are blessed.

Don't ever change.  Always be an example for your kids. 

Big Hug!!!   :)

wth is wrong with your W?  Oh yeah, she's in a crisis.   ;D
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2018, 10:32:55 AM »
DD - without dishonouring your role or integrity - it sounds as if the priority is to protect yourself and your kids from a man who is disordered. Completely get the point about multiple/potential OM...so let's ignore the affair issue.

What would you do if a disordered person was waging this kind of vendetta against you and your family otherwise? What are your options? Can you take advice at work so at least it is documented there? Or do you need to escalate this via police or a L with the support of your boss or whoever it is knows who did it? (I ask because sometimes the disordered folks don't disappear just because their first efforts don't work.)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Whyus

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2018, 12:44:55 PM »
If I was a lae enforcement Officer i would have totally Ruined om by now ;D 8)

Whyus I get it, and many in my position would, but I've never been that guy.  I always took pride in the fact that I did things right, was fair to people, didn't lie, cheat, steal, or dishonor the profession.  I never beat anyone, or mistreated anyone, and it's actually saved me from getting killed a few times, when people on the street knew me as fair.  I always took pride in the fact that I could tell me son I did things right.  As tempting as it is I'm starting to see I don't like the person I've become in many aspects.  For instance, following my W, calling the OM, all that stuff I feel was still a mistake, and not a good example.

Just to clear this up... you know that i was joking right??
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2018, 05:45:40 PM »
Whyus:

Yes! We all knew you were joking and had so much fun with the idea. Laughter left the house when our spouses did so I really appreciate LBS jokes so much. I think I have a permanent frown and scowl and heartache so anything to make me smile is welcome.

Devastated: As we all say, it is so very hard to realize that the Love of your Life is sick and gone. The realization is almost too much to bear, but you will, for now you must look out for your children.

I had almost 30 years of True Romance with my beautiful husband. How lucky I was.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2018, 05:57:49 PM »
Devastated:

You said you told your superiors after they asked you to take a drug test because someone accused you of exhibiting unbalanced behavior that they would have to confront the accuser.

As I have repeatedly said, I think it's very important to tell the truth. Now is not not the time to be stoic, silent and take it. I think many of us are suddenly dealing with spouses who suddenly fell ill with serious psychiatric or neurological disorders.


Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2018, 06:13:02 PM »
Because they have become sick and disordered, they have attracted like. 

We do not protect our loves by getting out the broom and sweeping alarming behaviors away, or by closing our eyes.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2018, 09:31:55 AM »
Whyus, I knew you were joking.  All good advice.  My Chief told the reported that they had to come in and write a formal complaint.  They were supposed to do it today, no one showed.  My W is convinced its the OM and she is pissed.  She has been extremely nice to me and the kids the past week.  She took my daughter out shopping last night for summer clothes.  when she talks about the OM she scowls.  It's essentially like he is now the target, and she is ok with us.  I fully expect this to shift back to us as the targets, but currently enjoying the non-monstering state she is in toward us.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2018, 09:40:36 AM »
I don't know Whyus, you sounded pretty convincing to me.   ;D ;D ;D

Nah, we knew you were kidding. (kind of)  ha ha

I'm glad they were a no show, Dev.  Just proves your point.  It was a bogus accusation.
Maybe this is your W's way of making up for what he did, guess no one knows but I'm glad she is treating you guys nicely right now.

Enjoy it while you can, but no expectations.  You know the drill.   ;)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline rsa

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
I know you cannot control you MLC wife, but please encourage her to hang in there with her current job unless she has another one just a good lined up.  You don't want her to be out of work if she goes down the path of divorce as she could then attempt to burn you for spousal support/alimony.  They get very greedy when they are in MLC.  Mine makes almost as much money as me and wants spousal support.  It defies logic in my mind.  W left the marriage, spends more than she makes because MLC cannot control their spending, and W  wants the responsible one, me that has 100% custody of the kids, to pay spousal support to continue W new lifestyle?  In my mind W is asking to take money away from the kids.  It will be fun watching how this works out in my pending divorce. 
Married 19 years
Together 21 years
M – 51
W (MLC) – 44
D – Now 16 (BD 14)
D – Now 18 (BD 17)
BD1 – Nov 2016 ILYBINILY
EA (OM1) – Nov 2016 to April 2017 (W wanted PA)
BD2 - May 2017 W left without D's
BD3 - July 2017 OM2 (on/off multiple break ups initiated by OM)
Aug 2017 filed for divorce so "I couldn't move away with kids".
March 2018 - Proceeding with divorce.
Ready to move on.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2018, 06:45:06 PM »
Update... Job is now forcing me to take a psychological evaluation.  Wife has not been talking with OM, she actually blames him even though we don't know who is making the allegations, but I did catch her creating a profile on a dating website.  So, it appears she has gotten over the OM, but is seeking out another man.  What I have failed to mention is my beautiful wife probably won't be so beautiful much longer.  She has uncontrolled diabetes with blood sugars over 500.  Although she is in her 30's, she is already experiencing some pretty severe pain.  I signed on to take care of her, even if she loses her legs.  My sister says that I am winning the lottery as I won't have to take care of her when shes sick.  My daughter is begging me to move.  Just a few weeks of school left.  My W is still clinging on to me and the house, despite looking for another man.  Am I wrong for wanting her to find another man and move out?  What's really sick to me is her dating profile didn't even mention her kids.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2018, 07:15:53 PM »
Dear Devastated Dad:

Everything will be okay. You may not realize it, but your wife disrupting your stable, happy little world traumatized you and your children. I think you have behaved admirably and honorably, but the shocks we have been forced to endure take their toll.

We all know it is your wife who sorely needs mental status testing, but fine, your work is probably a little concerned by your grief and just wants you to get this little routine evaluation over with.

After you get over this little hiccup then you can step back, reevaluate and deal with your wife whom you love so very much. But first, please clear your mind, enjoy your children and nature that is all around you by taking walks without your phone if you can, and be calm and strong.

If your work asks why it appears you haven't been sleeping or have been distracted, please let them know you are very worried about your wife.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2018, 08:24:33 PM »
If they want you to take the psych eval because of more allegations and not because you are distracted, exhausted and heartbroken, then you know that someone has embarked on a campaign to assassinate your character. It started with accusations of drug taking then escalated.

I am sure you know which reason it is. I am asking you to please let work know.


Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2018, 04:21:17 AM »
It is at the point that someone is out to destroy me.  My w believes it is the OM and has since stopped talking to him, but I did find her on a dating site, so this tells me she still doesn't want her family.  I guess she is only back living with us for financial reasons, but doesn't appear to have any love for me, which is hard, because some part of me still loves her.  I know she is hurting to some extent also, because she stayed up all night, then went to work.  Maybe she is grieving the loss of the OM, I'm sure its not the loss of me.  I will say everyone who said letting a MLCer come home and live was a mistake, is right.  Everyday is painful as it is a reminder of what is being lost.  The monstering is terrible as well.  There are a few more weeks of school left for the kids, at that point I may try and leave, as I can't take this anymore, serve her an eviction, then sell the house.  She says she wants to live together until the credit cards are paid off.  That would require at least a year, I don't believe I can make it that long, especially through another holiday season at the end of the year, last Christmas almost killed me, literally.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2018, 04:35:08 AM »
Dev, it surely cant be that diffecult to find out who is trying to destroy in this day and age. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear....
As for your W, im really sorry that she is back home and on Dating sites. She is clearly checked out and still in Replay. Sometimes ending an Affair too quickly can backfire....
I hate that my W is with OM, I hate this guy with such a Passion you cannot imagine!!!! BUT, the thought of them not being together and W being "Single" and out with the happy meal gang is even more sickening. I would rather she had one MLC Affair than 20 One night stands any day...

Stay strong and try and Keep away from your W. She is home now, make the best of the Situation and find a safe Zone/room in the house where you can escape to. Lock it if you have to.. All the best.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2018, 05:53:02 AM »
Whyus,
 They won't tell me who the reporter is.  We are pretty sure its the OM.  I am surprised at my W's response toward the OM.  Although she clearly doesn't love me (she is on a dating site), she did care enough to get angry and stop speaking with him thinking he is the one who initiated all this.  I don't have anything to worry about, it's just troublesome to have someone out to get you.  I think my W is more suddenly concerned about the kids.  She knows if I loose my job she will be responsible for taking care of them on her salary, a very difficult task.  Maybe she is more concerned about having to take care of them, I don't know.  I am trying to distance myself from her mentally and physically, but am finding it difficult.  Obviously with her being on a dating site she has no respect for me, but everytime I see her, I see the old W and want to take care of her.  The mentally draining part for me is that I fluctuate back and fourth.  There are times I want to be with her and see her, then there are times I cant stand being around her.  I am all over the place mentally again, but I  am making it to work, which was a nearly impossible task a few weeks back.  I don't see an end in sight either, which is difficult.  I have to wonder how dating will work when the people she wants to date find out she is living at home with me and the kids.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2018, 05:58:55 AM »
Have you told her that you know about the dating site?
To me, that would open up a conversation about boundaries and suggesting that she needs to move out.
Clearly she has no interest in you, the kids or your M, so you really are just a free room and board with plenty of spending money.
This is not healthy for your kids at all.
Don't worry about the eval at work or who reported you - could be OM, could even have been your W - who knows.
Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2018, 06:35:08 AM »
Isn't it unfair just anyone can make an accusation like that, but you can't be told who did it?
How in the world do you defend yourself from lies. if you know nothing?

Oh well, I'm sure you'll be just fine.  Maybe they can tell you afterwards so this person can get in trouble for lying to them.
I mean look all the time this is wasting for you and them.

I'm kind of the same mind as S66, I'd have to tell her you know about the dating site, even if she Monsters at you (which she does anyway), she will know you know what she is doing....and maybe she'd leave. 
If she gets mad you snooped on her you can just say...yes, I did and this is why.   But that's just me.   :)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2018, 06:45:44 AM »
She is aware that I know about the dating site.  She says were not together, that we are living strictly as friends, so the kids can remain in their schools, keep their friends, and we can pay off the bills.  This is the same thing she said last Nov when she BD'd me.  If you recall she told me last November she would move out by this May and have the bills paid off.  Obviously that has not happened.  When she first made that statement things were hot and heavy with the OM.  She was in love and thought she had found "the one".  She said she was head over heels for him, he was so nice, he listened to her, he was the man of her dreams.  This was the same time that she essentially left me and the kids.  Her things were here, but she wasn't.  I remember asking how she could be so happy, while we were so sad, and she didn't care.  She said horrible terrible things and told me to get over it.  Now, the other show has dropped and she caught the OM in all kinds of lies.  She also realized that she was a booty call and the OM didn't really want any kind of relationship with her.  Then there is what I am going through at work.  She has become sad, can't sleep, and monsters at the kids. She has parked herself here, is pretty clear she doesn't want any kind of relationship with me, but doesn't have any plans to leave.  Now she is saying she will stay until the credit cards are paid off, which will be at least a year.  This is why I feel when the kids are out of school I have to take the leap and move.  Once I am in an apartment maybe I can get an eviction and sell the house.  Maybe I'm looking too far ahead and should go day by day.  I think I should take her at her word that we are done.  When people are done then they can move on right?

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2018, 07:36:11 AM »
I might be tempted, DD, to say that you and your kids are under threat now because of her recent choices. If she is looking to date, then she is simply risking inviting other strangers into your lives who might hurt your family and that is not acceptable. If she's doing that, perhaps she needs to go so the only risk is to her. (If she wasn't lost in her own crazy, this would be blindingly obvious of course)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2018, 07:38:24 AM »
I so agree with Treasur.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2018, 07:43:23 AM »
Devastated:

Once you get the psych eval over please consider filing for divorce. Your wife is using you and the kids. I doubt very much she'll pay off the credit cards; more likely, she"ll rack up even more debt that will have to be split upon divorce. You shouldn't be burdened with her debt. They can't control themselves.

Your children want to move away from her. Why should their desire to move be delayed until she reaches her selfish goal of cleaning up her her own mess?

Offline OffRoad

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2018, 08:28:57 AM »
Is it possible it was your wife who made the claims and is saying it was OM as a way to deflect any thoughts from you that it could be her? Maybe I shouldn't bring that possibility up, you do have plenty on your plate. I'm just thinking if she has her own mess at work, it is not beneath an MLCER to try to take the LBS down with them. The " my life is miserable, your should be, too" syndrome. Plus, if you are this evil person, she is justified in her actions and can take the kids. And, if you are this evil person, she wasn't really cheating,  everything wrong with your marriage was because of crazy you.

When this all went down, that was my first thought. An MLCer trying to prove her LBS is the problem. I hope I'm wrong, but keep it in mind, just in case.

When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2018, 08:35:31 AM »
DD
As a loving reminder...I know this all seems completely insane and like something just flipped your universe upside down.
There will be a time for untangling whys...but right now, it will be easier and more productive to put that to one side and just focus on the practical what and how stuff.
You are clearer and stronger than you were just a few weeks ago, DD. Focus on what YOU CAN protect and control. Do that and it will make you feel more in control too.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2018, 09:00:03 AM »
I have been wrestling with leaving for weeks now.  At one point I had her out of the house, and mistakenly let her back in.  Everyone is miserable, especially the kids.  I think I have to move when they get out of school.  I know you all say not to leave the house, but she isn't going to leave, and there appears to be no way to make her leave.  She isn't being "mean" toward me, the monstering appears to be toward my daughter now, who she feels isn't respectful to her.  My daughter said she knows her mom cheated, and everything is the way it is because of her mom, so she has lost respect for her.  I told her I didn't know anything about her mom cheating and she said dad I'm not stupid, don't lie to me too.  My W is miserable, it's written on her face, she is sad and depressed all the time now.  Like I said this is interesting because just a few months ago she was jumping for joy with her new found love.  The only real out I see at this time is to move into an apartment with the kids, file for her eviction, and hope I can get her out of the house.  I offered to give her a deposit and first months rent on an apartment and she wouldn't take it.

Online Helpingme!

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2018, 09:08:51 AM »
DD, if you tell her she needs too leave, is she saying no??
I hate Ser you and kids go. But it may be only way atm. I would pack all her stuff up, and tell her too leave.
If it's last choice, then you go.

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2018, 09:16:39 AM »
She isn't being "mean" toward me, the monstering appears to be toward my daughter now, who she feels isn't respectful to her. 

They demand respect without earning any of it. They lost that respect themselves. They have to earn it back. I see it in my 2 older boys. They are losing respect for her. My oldest at a quicker pace, but still trying to love her through it. It's sickening some of the things they say to or about our children. But this is one of the clearest signs of the alien.
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2018, 09:21:29 AM »
Gosh Dev, I guess if your D can just make it through the next few week, avoiding her as much as possible, and your lawyer AGREES you CAN definately evict her, than maybe leaving with the kids until this can happen may be the right thing to do.

Kids should not have to live with her abuse, it effects them very negatively, as you already know.   ::)

I would just make sure your lawyer knows you can do this for sure.
If she files and wants money from the house, she could possibly ask for half the equity, but again make sure of everything before you make any moves.

Write your questions out so you don't forget anything, lawyers charge by the hour, as I'm sure you're aware of.   :o
Mine always liked how organized I was during that hour.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »
DD - you own the house right? Why not just put it up for sale?

Or, another option is to start (legally and non-angrily) making it less easy and pleasant for your W to stay as a 'roomie'? Reduce access to things she likes and expects - money, internet, cars, your time etc - really make it like she is a paying lodger who is 100% responsible for herself?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2018, 10:33:38 AM »
Treasur I had that idea too, but I think Dev is worried she won't let people in to see the house and not keep it clean to spit him trying to sell it.
Am I correct Dev?

I thought the same thing, make it as uncomfortable for her as you can.  Do nothing for her, give her half the bills, no giving her money, car, Internet...what ever you can take away, take it away.
Is she on the dating site by her phone, or computer?  Shut the Internet off unless she wants to pay for it.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2018, 10:42:57 AM »
Treasur I had that idea too, but I think Dev is worried she won't let people in to see the house and not keep it clean to spit him trying to sell it.
Am I correct Dev?

DD could choose to arrange with the realtor that only DD is involved and he could make sure the place was clean. As I understand it, legally it is his house right DD? Having said that, if you divorce I guess it might be seen as a marital asset so you need to make sure you are clear about any L advice you've been given.

Just seems a better/easier option for DD to control than leaving a house he owns, probably when she will stop maintaining or paying bills in a fit of MLC pique, and then trying to evict her legally IMHO.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2018, 10:48:50 AM »
I completely agree with you, Treasur. 

Devastated has a hard decision to make.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Anjae

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2018, 02:22:59 PM »
Or, another option is to start (legally and non-angrily) making it less easy and pleasant for your W to stay as a 'roomie'? Reduce access to things she likes and expects - money, internet, cars, your time etc - really make it like she is a paying lodger who is 100% responsible for herself?


I would check this with the lawyer. DD's wife is still is wife. Depending of local law, since they are married, DD's cutting her access to things, or making harder for her, may come back to bite him. She is still his spouse, living in the marital home.

We tend to forget the law/don't know the law when advising some things.

It is one thing to ask her to leave, it is another to cut, or reduce, her access to things. Regardless of the house being DD's. Again, different things.


DD, you are not the first LBS to have a live-in MLCer. Nor will you be the last. I think you need to think about/find aways of not only preparing, but also manage, to live in the same house as your live-in MLCer.

Those of us with a MLCer that left probably aren't much help for you. You need to ask those with live-in MLCers how to deal with the matter.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2018, 07:26:56 PM »
Anjae, I didn't mean cutting crucial things like food, hot water or heat, I just mean things that are not essential like Internet access.
A person can live without Internet access.  There is no law that says you have to provide Internet access for your spouse.

It's not like she doesn't have a job and can't pay for something like that herself if she wants it.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Anjae

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2018, 07:47:07 PM »
Then, the law is different over there. Internet access is a basic right here. A spouse cannot cut/restric my access to it.

Crazy Mr J, at his worst mania, wanted to cut everything, water, gas, electricity, landline phone, internet, etc. Of course he was not listening to any legalities, two friends had to talk him out of it.

Sure, she can pays for it. But will she? Will that make her leave? Or just bring our more nasty? And if she pays for it and stays in the house? What difference will it make?

DD's situation is something I would like to see more with live-in MLCers post to.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2018, 06:32:37 AM »
In the UK - one spouse cannot kick out another unless there is clear emotional or physical abuse.

One of the reasons for providing grounds of divorce is "unreasonable behaviour" 

A friend of mine whose H (now I look back) was in MLC and (it would seem 15 years on still is....) cited the fact that because my friend was a musician it made his life a living hell as he hated music!   It mattered little to the law that he was benefiting from her earnings but he was unhappy and she was "behaving unreasonably".  And so she ended up leaving the marital property which was originally his before she moved in; She did get half of the equity but only if she surrendered her half of the joint possessions!!!   The only thing she was allowed to take was her beautiful grand piano.  (Mind you - that cost more than all of the furniture) 

You may wonder DD what this has to do with you. What I am trying to get at is that the law will only work for those people who work it.  Being nice and kind doesn't cut it with an MLCer.

However if she continues to live in then listen.. MY H never left (5 years on). I established separate rooms and boundaries.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2018, 01:12:54 PM »
Looks like were in a "sort" of reconciliation. We met today, after I met with my bosses, and I told her the allegations laid out against me.  She stated the only way those allegations would have made it to my work is from the OM, because she shared them as concerns with him.  She stated she had no proof I was doing any of the allegations, but had suspicions and shared them with the OM.  She is furious at the OM as she sees this as an attack on her children (yes the ones she abandoned 6 months ago) and their way of life. I'm sure she also sees this as an attack on her home, as she will have nowhere to go if I loose my job.  I told her I was tired of all the drama, and was ready to move on with my life if she didn't want her family back.  She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

Offline same33

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2018, 01:19:56 PM »
She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

Yeah, well we all want our "normal and sane" spouses back. How's that going???....jeez...
M-44
W-41
S12, S9, S7
Married 9/25/2004
13 years of marriage
BD#1- December 22, 2014
BD#2- January 2, 2018
Standing for my marriage

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2018, 01:33:48 PM »
That's kind of where I am at.  Why in the world would I want to live with you if were not a family?  I don't need a roommate, especially if I sell the house (which is in my name only) and get the equity.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2018, 01:48:00 PM »
Exactly!
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2018, 10:30:45 PM »
She stated the only way those allegations would have made it to my work is from the OM, because she shared them as concerns with him.  She stated she had no proof I was doing any of the allegations, but had suspicions and shared them with the OM. 

She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

That she sees it as down to OM is helpful; less helpful is that she isn't taking the step of seeing her responsibility for creating this chain of events. Are her suspicions based on anything concrete, DD, or just part of crazy MLC-like rewriting of reality? Whatever happens, I think you need to keep clear in your mind - and in calm discussion with her - that she caused this...she chose to have an OM, she chose to share those concerns. Don't ram her nose in it every day but don't deny the reality either IMHO....too easy for you to go along with her 'big bad OM' story which is no different really from a 'big bad DD' story is it?

So, that's what she wants...the 'see where things go' plan. What about you? She seems to see this as a default plan that she doesn't have to actively 'earn' by repairing anything she broke...but you might feel differently. And, if you do that, what are your conditions for it other than no OM/men? And how long would you try it? And how would you still have a contingency plan that keeps you, your kids and your money safe because right now your W is no longer trustworthy or predictable, so today's plan could change next week?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2018, 12:11:52 AM »
Quote
She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

Typical live in script.  My H didn't want a divorce and wanted to see where things went but he didn't want to be a friend and he certainly wanted to be free to do his own thing.

Rightly or wrongly - I refused to sell the house and to move.  The house we have we had both worked hard to get and I was essentially paying 80% of the bills so that H could work from home. 

I too had challenges with work accused of something proved groundless but it was a young girl (and not OW) who just decided to get back at me.  That combined with my own therapy treatment for my post BD PTSD meant that I couldn't even contemplate facing a house move.

So H stayed, although he did have a boat and then, motor home outside of the home in which he stayed almost every night from 1 yr into crisis until 8 months ago. (Just passed 5 year date).  However he was still around almost 24/7.
H also worked from home and, ironically, refused to move his business but wanted to force me to sell the home!  I am not quite sure how he thought he could sell the home but not move his business.

The reason I am telling you this is to show you that this situation is not new and you have to decide what you can put up with, what you can tolerate - how you can heal with her in the home all of the time.

That said, She is still in replay and therefore is very very likely to find someone else. Whether she leaves or stays is unknown and what I strongly recommend is that you continue to detach from her shenanigans and LMC speak and go dim or dark on her.

She may be just having a thinky time at the moment. It is quite common for high replayers to have blue/ thoughtful periods and yet it doesn't mean that she is at the end of the tunnel.  Her anger at OM is ultimately guilt and anger at herself but that doesn't mean that she will choose to reconnect.

Her asking to " see how it goes" is not commitment of any kind and reconciliations are not built on " seeing how it goes" - that's experimenting.   You are not an experiment.

So you have the right to choose what you want.  If you can tolerate her still being at  home and in room mate situation (which BTW is MLC script), then go dark and keep any communication short, bright and breezy.

If you cannot tolerate this - then you will have to seriously consider selling the house and going for formal separation. 

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2018, 03:19:44 AM »
I've now caught up with this thread and all I can do is to shake my head....

All the accusations coming into work, Mid-Lifer blaming the OM (I do recall you saying that your Mid-Lifer threatened to destroy you in thread 1 or 2) and my reply was to get in touch with your security officer and tell them what was going on.  I am sorry to say that NOT doing that has bitten you in the a$$..... The question from your superiors asking why someone would make these kinds of accusations had a VERY simple answer - "My wife is having an affair, possibly multiple affairs, and is potentially pursuing a separation/divorce." Once the drug test came back clean, the other accusations would be pretty well tossed aside as more unsubstantiated hearsay promoted by a bitter STBX.... Again, that is personal experience talking except my xW WAS pursuing a D. DIS did a little checking into HER background as part of MY check and guess what they found? She was bankrupt, was smoking pot, had made suicide threats....Projection anyone?  Since I was half a country away and the D was already in the court system, my clearance was maintained and nothing further was said...

Your answer about asking the accuser was evasive and LEO's do not take kindly to that.... Having had to deal with DIS, FBI, and NIS Agents in my military times in DC as well as my civilian life directly thereafter, I have had enough experience to know that they are looking for answers and if you make it difficult, they try all the harder. By telling them the whole story straight up, it usually made things MUCH easier.

I am tempted to nominate your Mid-Lifer for an Oscar award for Best Non-Supporting Actress.... "Oh, it is all OM's fault." I call BS. Loose lips sink ships. If she would not have been flapping her gums in the first place, OM (assuming it even was him) wouldn't have had anything to accuse you of. If she wants to see who is responsible for attacking her family, she needs look no farther than in the mirror....

Quote from: Songanddance
Quote from: DevestatedDad
She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

Typical live in script.  My H didn't want a divorce and wanted to see where things went but he didn't want to be a friend and he certainly wanted to be free to do his own thing

<.....snip.....>

That said, She is still in replay and therefore is very very likely to find someone else. Whether she leaves or stays is unknown and what I strongly recommend is that you continue to detach from her shenanigans and LMC speak and go dim or dark on her.

She may be just having a thinky time at the moment. It is quite common for high replayers to have blue/ thoughtful periods and yet it doesn't mean that she is at the end of the tunnel.  Her anger at OM is ultimately guilt and anger at herself but that doesn't mean that she will choose to reconnect.

Her asking to " see how it goes" is not commitment of any kind and reconciliations are not built on " seeing how it goes" - that's experimenting.   You are not an experiment.

So you have the right to choose what you want.  If you can tolerate her still being at  home and in room mate situation (which BTW is MLC script), then go dark and keep any communication short, bright and breezy.

If you cannot tolerate this - then you will have to seriously consider selling the house and going for formal separation.

THIS! SO much truth in so few words...

Read and heed.....

She stated the only way those allegations would have made it to my work is from the OM, because she shared them as concerns with him.  She stated she had no proof I was doing any of the allegations, but had suspicions and shared them with the OM. 

She still wants to live in the same house, be friends, not see anyone else, and see where things go lol

That she sees it as down to OM is helpful; less helpful is that she isn't taking the step of seeing her responsibility for creating this chain of events. Are her suspicions based on anything concrete, DD, or just part of crazy MLC-like rewriting of reality? Whatever happens, I think you need to keep clear in your mind - and in calm discussion with her - that she caused this...she chose to have an OM, she chose to share those concerns. Don't ram her nose in it every day but don't deny the reality either IMHO....too easy for you to go along with her 'big bad OM' story which is no different really from a 'big bad DD' story is it?

So, that's what she wants...the 'see where things go' plan. What about you? She seems to see this as a default plan that she doesn't have to actively 'earn' by repairing anything she broke...but you might feel differently. And, if you do that, what are your conditions for it other than no OM/men? And how long would you try it? And how would you still have a contingency plan that keeps you, your kids and your money safe because right now your W is no longer trustworthy or predictable, so today's plan could change next week?

And this too......
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer is initiating D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #94 on: April 20, 2018, 07:44:58 PM »
How do you figure you are in a kind of reconciliation?
Because she is telling you she wants to live there and wants to see where it goes ?
She is just telling you anything you want to hear to keep her cozy set up.

A reconciliation would be here admitting her issues and begging for forgiveness and wanting to work in your marriage.

And she never considers what you feel, she just assumes you want her back.

Think about what you want and need. You deserve a fully committed spouse and not some casual maybe, possibly, could be Blablabla.

Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2018, 07:57:23 AM »
How are things going, Dev?

With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2018, 04:39:29 PM »
Things are as muddy as ever. She is still living at home, we have separate rooms. I’m still dealing with work.  She 100% blames OM at this point. Last night she got angry again because I talk to my sister about what’s going on, and because I talked to that other girl after W told me she was done and leaving. I told her again that I would pay her deposit and first months rent, she refused and said maybe we need to go to counseling. She said sorry, that this was all her fault for having an affair. I am  pretty depressed after last night. My sister says if W moved then I will begin to heal, but until then I will struggle. Kids just have a few weeks of school left.
There was also an incident between W and daughter on Sat night. I was outside cutting grass when they both came running out of house. Daughter was crying, wife was furious. Apparently W called daughter a bratty b*tc# and my sweet innocent daughter to her to truck off and gave her the finger. Wife snaked daughter across the face. Things are certainly not peaceful.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2018, 05:41:55 PM »
I'm sorry Dev,

What do you mean your w snaked her across the face??  Like scratched her???

If that is the case then she is physically abusing her, which is domestic violence.  Please don't allow that.  Call the police, they can remove her from the house and solve all your problems.
That may be what is needed to get her out of there.

Your D needs you to stand up for her.  If you don't no one else will.  Your W is sick and your kids are suffering.
Please report her, Dev.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2018, 07:24:25 PM »
I meant to write smacked, she smacked her across the face.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2018, 08:01:03 PM »
Dear Devastated:

Water under the Bridge, but it would have been best for you to up front with your superiors when false allegations were lodged against you. Please stop believing her lame excuse that OM was the source of the campaign to bring you down. Everything centers around your wife.

Next: Once you realized the little boy was urinating in his pants it was time to get them out of the house into temporary lodging while you figured out what to do. But still it's so hard to admit that your wife is the cause of your son's pain.

Now, your wife has abused your daughter.

Your wife wants to stay in the house for her comfort, and in a panic has offered to get counseling.

Take her up on her insincere offer and insist she accompany you to the appointment you will make for her with a neurologist or a neuropsychiatrist while you take steps to save yourself and the children from her.

Your children are counting on you.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2018, 08:13:48 PM »
And yes, the time to get her out of the house was when she was menacing and physically assaulting your daughter, but we can understand the shock your family must have been in so your immediate reaction was to comfort your child.

I hope you are taking careful notes on your wife's behavior. Consider surreptitiously taping and filming her.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2018, 08:19:59 PM »
Another thought occurred to me:

You said you informed the school counselors of your situation. If the police can't do anything after the fact, perhaps the school can inform social services that your wife is out of control.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2018, 08:39:52 PM »
You think the offer of counseling is insincere?

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2018, 08:46:48 PM »
I don't really know. Let's see if she will go with you to see the neurologist/neuropsychiatrist.

Please don't waste your time and money on a counselor.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2018, 08:52:41 PM »
What is a neuropsychiatrist

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #105 on: April 23, 2018, 09:10:47 PM »
Devastated:

Neuropsychiatry investigates the link between mental illness and disorder in cerebral function. This branch of medicine preceded psychiatry and neurology. I think the two branches are reintegrating, finally.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #106 on: April 23, 2018, 09:46:51 PM »
You can also consider a neuropsychologist, Devastated. I just want to stress that I don't think therapists or counselors, whether marriage, individual or court-appointed or whatever else kind of "helping" professional our spouses see, has a clue what they are dealing with when our spouses walk into their office.

I took my husband to a neurologist.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2018, 03:00:57 AM »
Dev - this situation is escalating out of control and you have to be more accepting of the fact that it is not going to get better unless you are more proactive.

I did nothing when my H assaulted my teenage son - nothing.  My S (18 at the time) admits he goaded and taunted H but my S was right I should have done something.  I now have to live with my S's memory and anger at me that his mum did not stand up for him or protect him (even though he was an adult)  I was away at the time of the incident.

Your situation is worse - you were there. You didn't see it but you had the opportunity to do something and you still do.  Your children are the most important.

You have made the offer to give your wife money for rent - she has refused to consider it.  You have been tolerant of her claims that she is "offended" for you about the work situation which could have left you unemployed!  And now she strikes your little girl. 

How much more proof do you need that you need to act?   How much more proof do you need that she has to be out of the house.

Your children need to feel safe in their own home.  She is the one who has pushed all the buttons - she is the one who has had an affair, struck your daughter and made your life in your  home almost unbearable. If you can get her out then do it.  It doesn't have to be forever but you and your children need space away from her and that doesn't mean you moving out.

I gather you are a policeman -Let's say you are called to an incident where a woman struck a child - would you arrest her? I venture to bet yes especially if you knew that that person was demonstrating erratic behaviour.   Would you report this to social services - Yes because the welfare of the child is paramount.
What's the difference ?  Your heart is ruling your head here Dev.

You are at liberty to take up BVFTD's suggestion of course but taking your wife to anyone still means that you are dealing with her and not the situation for your children and that is far more important. 
 



 

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2018, 04:11:15 AM »
Truthfully, I wouldn't take your W anywhere.  It's not going to help her or change her.  She in Monster mode and isn't going to come out of it any time soon.  It's only going to get worse.

I'd work on getting her out of the house as soon as possible, after slapping your daughter. 
That to me is the most important thing, not taking her to a doctor.  That's unimportant right now.  She's nuts, that's all you need to know and go from there.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Helpingme!

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2018, 04:43:54 AM »
DD. I agree with Thunder and Song, right now your W is off her rocker.  I wouldn't take her anywhere but too the local hotel and drop her off. Sorry, JMO.
DD,  as Song said, I think you are letting your heart control your decisions.  You need too act now before something else happens. Protect your kids DD. This is the main thing.

Now, if you want too look up some doctors for your W. That's fine. When's she's out of the house, trust me,  she will try and come back. Then give her info too doctor's and tell her go get some help. She probably won't care, but that's not your problem.
DD,  your kids need too be #1 priority over EVERYTHING else.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2018, 04:51:37 AM »
Listen to the advice DD, I wanted to write the same... You HAVE to get her out of the house ASAP... protect your D, your W can take care of herself. Not your Problem.... stay strong, now you have a legit reason to evict her... All the best. im sorrry that ist come to this... Give you D a hug from us.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #111 on: April 24, 2018, 04:52:30 AM »
DD - I have to agree with everyone else that it is a time to protect your kids and use your head not your heart. Tough calls to be made but you're the only one who can make them, I'm afraid.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #112 on: April 24, 2018, 06:17:06 AM »
I spoke to the local prosecuting attorney and they won't prosecute a mother for slapping her child open handed on side of the face for back talk.  They did offer to issue a restraining order, if my daughter is willing to testify as to what happened between her and her mother.  I am hesitant (as always) to have her testify against her mother.  I told my daughter about this last night and she responded "I don't know dad".  I know she wants to leave, but she is hesitant about talking against her mother to officials.  Since then things have been relatively quiet.  We are in this weird state where no one in the house knows what to do.  As I said before I cannot legally kick her out, without my daughter getting a restraining order, so I am stuck with her for the time being.  If my daughter won't testify as to what happened I think I only have the option of doing nothing and seeing what happens, or pursuing the counseling route.  I say counseling because it appears to be the only thing we haven't tried yet.  Everyone in the house, including my W, realizes the situation is out of control.  She has admitted to everything, but still monsters.  She has apologized profusely, but right now I just don't trust her.  I fluctuate between wanting to slow things down and fix them, and letting it all fall apart and leaving.  6 months into this mess and I am more lost and confused than ever.  Mentally I was doing ok for while, now I feel myself going backwards into depression again.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #113 on: April 24, 2018, 06:26:01 AM »
OMG Dev, that would be you and your kids out!  If a restraining order is in place she has to leave the house.
I guess at this point, I would try to convince your D that it would get her mom out of the house and that's what she wants.  The abuse would stop.

Yes, her mom would be upset but when she comes out of her crisis she won't hold it against her d.  She knows she's acting aggressive she just can't control herself right now because she's in Monster mode.

Also if you think for one minute counseling will help your W, you're wrong.  It will accomplish nothing.
Only the kids would benefit from counseling...or you.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2018, 06:30:57 AM »
DD,

If you want your daughter to not only lose faith in your mother but also in her father, then you are right, do nothing. She will then feel like she is doing something wrong and turn her pain inward and be set up for a life of self hatred and depression.
And I am asking this with love and concern for your situation, but when is enough enough for you ? What does your wife have to do to get you to realize she is a danger to you and your children?
What kind of counseling did you have in mind ? Marriage counseling ? Your wife doesn't even know if she wants to be married, so that is useless. The only counseling that I would even consider is family counseling with the kids.

Quote
I fluctuate between wanting to slow things down and fix them, and letting it all fall apart

What are you going to fix ?????????? Your wife's craziness ???? Her crisis ????? --- you cannot fix this DD.
Letting it fall apart ??? - It already fell apart months ago when she decided to cheat and run off.

Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2018, 06:38:10 AM »
Maybe specialised anger management classes for your W? Although if it is MLC, unlikely to get through to her until the consequences get bigger.

If your D won't do that, DD, then you are going to have to play serious underhand hardball, document EVERYTHING  and act decisively. Broadly speaking from here, it seems like you have three choices:
1. With your D's involvement, get a restraining order requiring her to live elsewhere for x months. Or if you're 'lucky' and she threatens you, you can file the restraining order. Or you could threaten her that this is something you might need to do unless the two of you can reach an agreement.
2. Make living in your home feel very uncomfortable for your W in whatever way you can without breaking the law...ignore her, no domestic support etc
3. Tell her that the situation is unsustainable, she refused your first option, and that you are selling the house and maybe filing for divorce so she needs to move out or you and the kids will. That you need to protect the kids from her current behaviour and will do whatever you need to do to achieve that.

The only person who can break this stuck pattern now, DD, is you, I'm sorry but that is reality. Like others IMHO I think you should be more upfront at work about your W's issues and behaviour in case things escalate more. You've done nothing to feel ashamed about - it's your W's s$it show. You can't fix it as 66 says, it's already blown up - the best you can do as a father, and maybe even as a H, is to reduce the collateral damage where you can.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 06:41:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2018, 06:46:22 AM »
Dev,

I have to agree with everything Schratz just said.

You can not fix her, Dev.
Also I don't understand why you can get the restraining order for your D.  She's a minor.  The don't usually let kids take those ro's out.
It's usually the parent who has to do that to protect their child, with the input from the child to back to up.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #117 on: April 24, 2018, 07:21:54 AM »
DD,  I think your W would have more respect go you when she comes out of this, if you did protect your daughter.
You have too be strong DD.
I would take any and all measures you need too get her put of the house.
DD, you can't help your W, a therapist cannot help her right now either. She has to want to help herself, then a therapist may do her some.good.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #118 on: April 24, 2018, 07:31:04 AM »
Quote
I am hesitant (as always) to have her testify against her mother.  I told my daughter about this last night and she responded "I don't know dad".  I know she wants to leave, but she is hesitant about talking against her mother to officials.

Of course you are but this is denial on your behalf.

Quote
Since then things have been relatively quiet.  We are in this weird state where no one in the house knows what to do.
Of course they are because you have all hit an impasse and the only one who can do anything is you.  You are the adult here - your child shouldn't be placed in the situation of having to control what you do next unless she is a young adult and she's not!  All children hate to do anything negative against their parents - that's human nature but it's your job to see that such an event will never happen again.

Quote
I said before I cannot legally kick her out,

It is your sole name on the deeds and it is your house - correct?  Not quite sure how the law applies for you but I know that in UK - no spouse can legally kick another if they are joint and co-owners.   If one spouse's name is on the deeds and land registry then they can remove the other from the property

Quote
I fluctuate between wanting to slow things down and fix them, and letting it all fall apart and leaving.

 I agree with the others - you CANNOT fix her Dev.  You just can't.  She has to fix herself and the toxicity of her behaviour has to stop affecting the children.
Dev - you are in denial my friend  in not accepting that you have to take control for your children. You may think that you are not in denial but your shock and possible PTSD from all of this is affecting your ability to think clearly and so parts of you rejects the need for action because you want to slow down and recover from this.  I am so sorry to say that sadly things do not get better until you become proactive and start fighting for what is right for your children.

You are the only grown up in your household right now and your genuine children need to feel safe, protected and loved - that is their right!   Focussing on your W only perpetuates the opposite for them.




Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #119 on: April 24, 2018, 08:00:41 AM »
I agree this has to stop.  I guess her reaction the other night, saying its all her fault, suggesting counseling, and saying she wants to fix things is what makes me think she may have changed.... some.  This all happened after the incident with my daughter, so I thought maybe she realized she was wrong.  Yes my daughter is a minor, but they won't issue a restraining order without daughter expressing what happened.  As far as kicking her out, yes the house is in my name, but where I live in the US, state law does not allow you to kick someone out once they have established residency unless they break a lease, have a restraining order, or so on.  I hear you all overwhelmingly saying she has to go, I don't disagree.  I am trying to convince my daughter to do her part, although I hate to be that parent that turns kids against the other parent.  The kids have just a few more weeks of school left too, which would make us moving easier also. 

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #120 on: April 24, 2018, 08:21:11 AM »
Is there a friend or family member your kids can live with until school is out? They're not safe at your home. Let's talk real - you're not going to file the restrainer order, you're not going to evict her. You're going to wait until she leaves you. This is exactly what my father did. I have permanent damage to my jaw from the slaps and punches I took throughout my life from an unhinged mother that I feared. Your W knows what she can get away with now, and will likely escalate. If she wasn't falling all over herself to find out why she did it and fix herself, she doesn't care, and she definitely won't change.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #121 on: April 24, 2018, 08:27:55 AM »
Ok, DD...so it sounds as if you are 100% clear that the current situation is not acceptable. Big step. And you're hoping that your W's recent words are a sign that she sees that too and believes that counselling will help.

Ok, test it out before jumping into other actions....give her a week and see if her behaviour towards the kids gets better. You don't need to tell her you're doing that, just give it a week and watch. It will be an easy yes/no bit of data. (Meanwhile, let your D process how she feels and see if the restraining order becomes an option.)

Take your W at her word and ask her to take the first step in the next week of scheduling a counselling appointment for either herself or both of you as she thinks best. See if she does. Again, an easy yes/no.

While that is going on, use the time to tidy the situation up at work and make a plan on how you can move you and the kids elsewhere and put the house up for sale. Take L or financial advice if you need it, but sketch out a plan. Don't tell your W or kids, just make a draft plan and get the info you need.

Review how things are in 7 days. W's behaviour better towards kids? Yes/no. Counselling appointment in the diary? Yes/no. If the answer to the first is no, it's time to start moving your plan c into action or going with the restraining order plan b if possible. If the answer to the first is yes, but the second is no, then you will know that your W's words mean nothing but you might have a little more do-able time to consider the detail of plan c. Make sense? (So easy to say from the outside, I know, but I wish someone had grabbed me by the logical dangly-bits in my first few months post-BD when I couldn't tell up from down  :)....take it if it's useful, if not feel free to bin it!)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #122 on: April 24, 2018, 08:36:50 AM »
My dear Dev, you are not turning your d against her mother.  Her mother already turned against her by being so abusive that she dreads coming home from school every day.

If you stay until the kids are out of school, then are you and the kids moving out or are you selling the house?
I'm not sure which you meant.

With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #123 on: April 24, 2018, 08:40:37 AM »
Devastated:

I do believe some people have misinterpreted my suggestions. They keep saying I am urging you to take her to a doctor before helping out your children.

As you recall, I suggested getting you and your children out of the house into a Residential Inn while you file for divorce and look into doctors that can help your wife. I also like the idea of your kids staying with friends.

I don't think people on this site understand that we just can't kick out our spouses from their OWN homes! If she is willing to leave then great! But if she's not we have to take steps to remove ourselves. And confronting a sick person is the worst thing you can do because she may lose it and lash out.

Please consult with your attorney on what you can do, Devastated. Ask help from the school. Let others in Real Life know what you are dealing with. It's great you spoke with the prosecuting attorney.
Perhaps your daughter will change her mind so you can get a restraining order.

And I really don't understand why you are being discouraged from urging your wife to seek medical help. LBS: She is his wife and the mother of his children. After the kids are safe, he just may wish to do everything in his power to make his troubled wife feel better, if she is willing.

I can tell you that knowing the reason behind my H's disturbing and uncharacteristic behaviors made all the difference in the world to my children.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #124 on: April 24, 2018, 08:51:06 AM »
Bv
I don't think it's an either/or. I just think a number of us see DD caught in an 'old habit' of prioritising his W's needs and actions first, and waiting in a sense for her to decide or change her behaviour. It's unlikely that will happen quickly if at all. It's understandable and many of us have done just the same which is why we see it so clearly from the cheap seats. The situation is serious and the risks are significant for the children and for DD's job. His W is actually pretty clear on what she wants - to stay in the house as 'friends' with no requirements or ultimatums or deadlines from DD as long as she says sorry after she behaves badly or blames it on OM in the case of his job.  So I think what we're all encouraging him to do is find that last inch of strength that will make him act to prioritise his kids and his family's wellbeing, and see supporting his W as further down his mental list in the short-term.

It may well help him and his kids later to have an explanation that makes sense. In the short-term, removing themselves from exposure to her ongoing anger and irrational behaviour will help more IMHO.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #125 on: April 24, 2018, 09:01:37 AM »
Of course I wish to help her, I believe my W is in there somewhere.  Right now there is no OM, I told her I can't live with another man in our lives, and any further seeing him, or anyone else will result in me and the kids moving.  If I leave with the kids there is no way to make the mortgage payment.  The house will go into foreclosure, I will loose my security clearance, and ultimately my job.  I supposed this is something I will have to accept.  Ideally she would leave, I could sell the house, me and the kids get apartment, and all my credit cards would be paid off and I would have equity money to pay rent the next few years.  It doesn't appear, unless my daughter goes against her, that the ideal situation will take place.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #126 on: April 24, 2018, 09:09:58 AM »
DD,

I just want to say that we are not ganging up on you, please know that. We are here to support you. Only you know what the situation is really like and only you can make these decisions for you. We are just here to give you food for thought and things to think about. All in the name of love and support and I do not want you to feel like we are bullying you or condemning your W. These are tough decisions and only make them when you feel right about it.

Me 50
H 49
AD 20 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline BBhelp

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #127 on: April 24, 2018, 09:18:23 AM »
DD,

You, LIKE I WAS, seem stuck in trying to keep this mess under wraps so that this is not so embarrassing for your wife.  I did the same thing, made excuses, hid behavior, and helped her cover her trail constantly.  It was SUCH A WASTE.  First of all...everybody knew something was amiss...kids talk, parents & teachers gossip, watercoolers always share.  So the reality I thought I was hiding...was actually less embarrassing then the stories flying around.  Stop trying to manage her crisis.

Sit down with your superiors and tell them what is going on...you are embarrassed but shouldn't be.  Your wife has gone off the deep end and she will take you with her if you give her the chance.

I like treasur's advice around a plan...because it has some pro-activity to it.  But you need to realize that the plan that gets her out for right now is the one that will come to pass.  Counseling is not really an option right now.  Been there did that too...and I was hopeful that since she asked for it it would be a big step too.  She used it as a forum to tell me all the things I did wrong and all the reasons she was justified in doing whatever the heck she wanted.  Massive fail.  My wife and I did counseling and it worked...but she was not even close to where your wife is right now. 

Your kids are watching you DD, and they are asking for help...these are crucial moments in their development and the decisions you have to make will have benefits or consequences for the rest of their lives.  You sound like you have gotten some legal advice and that is good...you have shared what you cannot do...what plan did they suggest.  Because there is a way around what you are going through...you are unfortunately not the first rodeo rider.  If it is selling your home and paying down your debt...then make a plan for that.  Just don't let this bus steer itself off of a cliff...and inaction will get you to the bottom of that cliff.  Protect yourself and your kids...make a plan...execute a plan.   

Don't let your anguish become your kids baggage DD.  You can do this.  It is scary, it feels final, it feels like you are cutting out your own heart...but you need to understand that this tough step is the first step towards health and peace for you all.  There will come a day where your wife will thank you for being tough and protecting your kids (Mine has untold amounts of times).  You want to help her...then help your kids...and let her fall flat on her face.  I know you feel she is still in there...and she is.  But the wife you know and love would NEVER want you and your kids to suffer at her hands...so know that and do what THAT lady would want.  Ignore this impostor right now...she is not the woman you want her to be right now...and the best help you can give your missing wife is to let the impostor destroy herself.  It is the toughest thing you will ever do...and it can pay the most dividends in the end.

You Can Do This.

BB 
First Thread:  Back After A Long Break http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8080.0

Random Thoughts From Hard Earned Lessons: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8194.0

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #128 on: April 24, 2018, 09:23:41 AM »
I had a very long post typed out but I see that BBHelp has said everything I wanted to and probably in a much nicer way than I.

Read it and then read it again...
Me - 54
MLC - 47
Together 20 years - Married for 17 at separation
S - 11
D - 7
2 Canines (each of us has one)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold and separated - March 2016
Mid-Lifer is initiating D

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #129 on: April 24, 2018, 09:32:16 AM »
As often is the case, I agree with BB's wise hard-won experienced words too...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

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Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #130 on: April 24, 2018, 09:50:32 AM »
I would be saying the same thing about abuse, that you did about an om.

If there is anymore abuse we will move out.  One more slap will not be tolerated.
I'd personally would rather she had an om, instead of abusing your D.

Ready, I'm so sorry to hear about the abuse you got from your mother.  So sad these people can harm their own children.
Dev, please read what Ready shared with you.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #131 on: April 24, 2018, 10:17:29 AM »
Quote
Stop trying to manage her crisis.

This !  Spot on BB. Your whole post is spot on!

Quote
I don't think people on this site understand that we just can't kick out our spouses from their OWN homes!

I do - I tried in the early days but the law was against me.  However it seems to vary from place to place as to what one spouse can do to another and this adds to the confusion.

Quote
And I really don't understand why you are being discouraged from urging your wife to seek medical help.

I don't think any of us are actively saying "Don't take her to a doctor" - we are just saying that from our own personal experiences it is sometimes impossible to push an MLC rope in that direction!  Nobody is disputing that you can't do all you can to recommend they go just that if they don't go you cannot force them.  My H rejected all kinds of suggestions for help that I offered.  There was no way on earth I could have physically forced him to a consultant.  (Not only that with the NHS in the UK , unless you want to and can afford to go private - everything has to go through the GP and, with the best will in the world, it can take forever to see a consultant unless it is a medical emergency ie unconsciousness, fitting, stroke, head injury etc..)

Dev's wife is an adult and she may well have some neurological issues but Dev's priorities perhaps have to be the children before his marriage.
I fully agree that if there is a neurological issue then that can help the children in their understanding, but if she won't go or is not diagnosed as having such issues then this could have taken up valuable time that Dev could have used to focus on protecting and helping his children.

 

Offline Reinventing

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #132 on: April 24, 2018, 10:24:48 AM »
Ideally she would leave, I could sell the house, me and the kids get apartment, and all my credit cards would be paid off and I would have equity money to pay rent the next few years.

From what I remember, the house is in your name alone. You can sell it and that would allow you to do what you said above.

Also, I hope you are recording everything you can. Her apologizing and recognizing she is out of control could be enough and they won't need your daughter to part of the restraining order.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:27:43 AM by Reinventing »

Online Thunder

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #133 on: April 24, 2018, 10:28:41 AM »
Thank you Song, that's what I also meant.

She just needs to be low priority right now.  Maybe down the road, if she is willing, you could ask her about seeing a doctor.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #134 on: April 24, 2018, 11:35:02 AM »
URSA, I did sit down with my security officer as you suggested, and my work has known what has been going on since the beginning.  Unfortunately their response is "don't let your credit go past 180 days late", and "you carry a gun and a badge, so we have to ensure your fit for duty anytime there is an allegation."  For someone who has gone an entire career without even a complaint, this is disheartening as you can imagine.  My lawyer had three suggestiongs

1. wait for something to happen and get a restraining order
2. Move, file for eviction, then sell the house.
3. Put the house up for sale with her in it, but expect problems showing the house, having it inspected, and so on as she doesn't want to participate and will make the process difficult.

I am leaning toward moving, evicting, then trying to sell before I hit the 180 mark.  If I hit the 180 mark I will loose my clearance and just have to find another job.  I don't think the kids or I could handle the mosntering while the house is for sale if we all lived here.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #135 on: April 24, 2018, 11:49:09 AM »
Ok, do you think that is a better solution than getting the restraining order?  That moves her out right away and you wouldn't need to worry about the mortgage payment getting behind.  It also wouldn't uproot the kids.

Well, you have to make that decision, but please Dev do what is best for you and the kids, and your finances.  Don't worry about your W, she will find somewhere to go.  She isn't going to be out on the street.  Plus you already offered to pay 1st and last months rent if she moves out.  If you end up staying in the house you could still offer her that, if you wanted to.

Good luck making a decision.  I'm glad your work knows.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Devastated DadTopic starter

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #136 on: April 24, 2018, 05:15:35 PM »
Just got done talking to my daughter.  She cried and said she wants to move, or have mom move, but doesn't want to hurt her with the law.  She says that no mom should do what she did, but she doesn't want to hurt her mom on the same token.  I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, seems like she is having the same mental battle I am.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #137 on: April 24, 2018, 07:57:59 PM »
All right, Devastated:

No surprise your daughter doesn't want to hurt her mother because she still remembers who her mother used to be.

Also, no big deal about the little credit problem. Don't let your work worry you on that front. All you have to do is let the credit agencies know what you are dealing with! My score was stellar until my husband took ill.

Do not worry about a thing. I also spoke with a bank about our situation and they were very understanding. They suggested I take steps to protect me and the children I hadn't even considered.

These money matters can be figured out later easily. Right now, file for divorce, take the hit on the house if all efforts fail, and regroup. Let your attorney know your wife is ill and the children have to be with you.

You will get through this.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #138 on: April 24, 2018, 08:08:29 PM »
Thank you, SongandDance, for your parenthetical comment about the difficulties in the UK in getting a spouse to see a neurologist. I have heard about the same problems in Australia.

Countries had better wake up and direct their attention to the tsunami coming their way. We warned you.

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #139 on: April 25, 2018, 05:05:14 AM »
Dev, I do understand.  Your D doesn't want to hurt her mom, no matter how nasty she is with her.

You'll just need to figure out the next best plan for you and the kids going forward.  You'll figure it out.
Just keep your lawyer involved with your decisions so everything is on the up and up, legally.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline bvFTD

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #140 on: April 25, 2018, 06:49:16 AM »
Devastated:

I meant to let the creditors know what you are dealing with. Maybe they can modify the payments for you or work out some sort of plan. They appreciate being informed of difficulties people may be having; they just do not like being ignored.

You are in the worst stage of the nightmare where life is chaos, but keep your wits about you, remain calm and strong. Don't be shy about asking others for help. You will get through it.

Take care.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #141 on: April 25, 2018, 07:30:30 AM »
Quote
Just got done talking to my daughter.  She cried and said she wants to move, or have mom move, but doesn't want to hurt her with the law.  She says that no mom should do what she did, but she doesn't want to hurt her mom on the same token.

Of course she doesn't and it's a heck of a responsibility that has been placed upon her shoulders.  Perhaps if you explain that a restraining order can be short-term (or so I believe - please correct if wrong) and that whilst mum/ mommy is in the house you may not be able to stop her from doing anything silly that could hurt her or her brother.  Explain to her that it is a really tough decision and of course she loves her mum but mommy isn't well at the moment and she needs help and that might mean living away from home for a little while . So she's not punishing her; she may in fact help mommy understand that she needs help because everything that mommy is doing and saying is not the usual mommy you all know and love.

I personally think that it is bizarre that the law in your area needs a little girl's approval when she is a minor.  If she were a teenager - fair enough, but she isn't and how can she make such a decision without feeling horrible about it?  It's almost emotional blackmail from the authorities. 

Yet again Dev - it comes down to your actions. You need to lead and if you think that a temporary restraining order is the way to go then you may have to persuade your D to agree.  If however you think that the better plan is to sell the house during the impending holidays and move - leaving W "out in the cold" then do so.
 
Either way it's a potential hornet's nest for you and this is the most awful aspect of MLC - the impact upon the children and the reactions of the MLCer when the LBS chooses to act in the interests of the children.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #142 on: April 25, 2018, 09:10:22 AM »
Quote
I meant to let the creditors know what you are dealing with. Maybe they can modify the payments for you or work out some sort of plan. They appreciate being informed of difficulties people may be having; they just do not like being ignored.

In my experience, they DO like if you keep them in the loop, but they don't start offering alternative payment options until post-collections, pre-lawsuit filing. It's pretty deep into non-paying (passed the 180 day time limit, for sure). They can be pleasant enough with you, but it's still their job to collect as much of your debt with interest as possible, and it starts compounding very quickly. They won't lower payments or settle for a lessor amount just upon request. Doesn't hurt to call and see though. Is there an option for you to receive a consolidation loan from anyone?

Quote
I personally think that it is bizarre that the law in your area needs a little girl's approval when she is a minor.  If she were a teenager - fair enough, but she isn't and how can she make such a decision without feeling horrible about it?  It's almost emotional blackmail from the authorities.

I'm interpreting that it's not her consent as much as it is her testimony. And she's already given DD her answer. As long as it's been now since the event happened and they've continued living in the house with her without DD removing them, is it possible they won't even grant a temporary restraining order now? The MLCer could easily contest it. And then your daughter is stuck living under the same roof with someone who not only abused her, but may be vengeful for the "betrayal". Any child of abuse knows the fear of that. It's what maintains all of our silence. As much as we may hate an abusive caretaker, we still feel loyal to them, because that is how we are wired as humans.

And thank you Thunder for your kind words. I just want people to remember that your kids aren't having the same experience with this as you are. You're fighting for your marriage, but they're fighting for their lives, their stability, and the best shot at adulthood they can have. A lot of people here believe childhood trauma is what plants the seed for crisis, and it's best to be mindful of that when these traumatic experiences happen for them. This will be just another nail in the coffin for you, but it may be a trigger they will be discussing with a therapist twenty years from now in order to regain control of their lives. While you're having empathy for a hurting spouse, remember the real victim in this is the formative years taken from these innocent souls. Save the most empathy and effort for them.

Your daughter has a lot of integrity, and if she is ever asked in a custody dispute if her father pressured her to testify against her mother so he could get the house, she would likely also be honest. Be mindful of that when you continue to press her to change her mind. It really isn't her job to fix this!

In my father's divorces, a temporary restraining order was filed against each spouse at the same time the divorce was filed, that lasted the duration of the proceedings. This didn't happen in my divorce, as I was always amicably standing and didn't request it (who knows why my xH didn't file one, since I was the devil in his eyes!). But you may check with your attorney and see if you could file and do this, thus getting her out of the house and getting the ball rolling. If you don't plan to divorce her, start setting some boundaries. Do something!!

This is the danger of the "wait and see" attitude. Things snowball. And now there is abuse. I speak from experience, because certainly I could have taken the bull by the horns and kept myself safe from some of the financial disaster, but my fingers were crossed he would come back and frankly, I was scared of him. You get into a pattern of accommodation and the eggshells you walk on become normal. But ask yourself what your limit is (and this is for all LBSs). Is it being wiped out financially? Is it being homeless? Being hit? Having your kids get hit? Your pets? Without a line in the sand, the MLCer will just keep drawing their own to test how far they can go until you have no power at all. But by then, you've lost it all.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Songanddance

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Re: D&J 4 or 5?
« Reply #143 on: April 25, 2018, 10:39:59 AM »
Yep - excellent advice Ready2

 

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