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Thank you so much for putting it that way. Yes, she must be not only angry but scared. Hurray!
Yup, completely predictable and clear to see all is not well in her/their world or why would she even give you a moment's thought?

I know I would have told another LBS to not answer but when it happens to you, it's so unnerving. I got shaky, disbelief, confusion, monkey braining.
It's like a psychic attack really, Milly, and it isn't normal. It is abuse and your body and mind responds accordingly. Normal grown ups don't rant by text and call a virtual stranger a c**t, and we've all spent years not receiving this kind of abuse from anyone probably.

Sunbathing on my balcony with coffee and toast. I've already dropped S13 at school 30 minutes away....had a great conversation with the main coach about how to feed S better to get his physical strength up, which the coach said will also help his concentration.
Sounds lovely. Great idea for your son's wellbeing, maybe not a bad idea for you too. Let the toxic crazy people spin and shout and abuse each other...while you and your kids stroll along on the sunny side of the street with a fine cup of coffee and your head held high.
Thank you so much Trust, Treasur, HF, and CLG. Great words of advice and words that give me pleasure. Thanks for grounding me and making me realize how much more superior I am for not answering her.  Only a year ago, I would have answered immediately, I would have spewed back. So great I counted to 3 and came here to ask you guys.

Trust, as you say, how do they have our numbers if not because they're watching us (the OW that is).
Treasur, sorry you got nasty messages, too. I will print and keep in the 'for evidence' folder. I do like what you say about her trying to prove herself publicly having failed. I'm enjoying that thought!
CLG, glad it proves she's an affair down. It helps to see it in writing though. I guess that's the upside of it!
HF, great words of comfort to me. When I wrote to her almost 3 years ago when H brought her to our home town, I was scared, desperate, and losing my H. Thank you so much for putting it that way. Yes, she must be not only angry but scared. Hurray!

I know I would have told another LBS to not answer but when it happens to you, it's so unnerving. I got shaky, disbelief, confusion, monkey braining. And since I have had basically NC with H for the last couple of months, I don't know what he's up to, what he looks like, how undercooked he is. Although I guess he did monster me two or three weeks ago with the emails about D.

So couldn't sleep until 3am last night. Monkeys in my brain. What does it mean? Told myself first no expectations,  but I also had feelings of glee, fear, and felt totally destabilized. Told myself make no assumptions.

Probably doesn't mean anything huge, but it is movement. What it tells me is they are fighting. I know they've fought in the past, my IC tells me they probably fight all the time as this kind of R is based on fighting and making up. But OW message shows great anger so that has to have been a whopper fight. That pleases me immensely. Surely I'm allowed to enjoy their bad schmoopie times.

What I also think, without having any expectations, it that their R is possibly heading to another break up or a definite breakup. My friends in London told me in February that H is getting sick of her. They do tell us that between the MLCer knowing there is no future with the OP and actually getting the strength to leave them, takes lots of time.

Sunny here this morning. I have lots of work to do. Sunbathing on my balcony with coffee and toast. I've already dropped S13 at school 30 minutes away, took his tennis bag to his tennis school, had a great conversation with the main coach about how to feed S better to get his physical strength up, which the coach said will also help his concentration. Let my doggie run around the tennis school like a rabbit. Ran a bit myself (like an old lady). Came home and here I am on the forum.

Will give myself another 30 minutes at the most before I get to work at my desk.
I will update if I get any new info.
Our Community / Re: Thread 29 - Voyage of the Stardancer
« Last post by Trustandlove on May 20, 2018, 11:37:55 PM »
I just remembered a bit more -- another one of those female MLCers told me that when she "woke up" many years later, she realised that had she known then what she knew now she never would have left; she realised she had had her head up her backside and had been living in, or wanting, a fantasy. 

But her H gave her an ultimatum after a year and a half or something, so no opportunity.  She remarried, to someone who I think had also been an MLCer -- she told me that he also has said that if he had known, he never would have left his own family.  (I don't know his situation in detail, this is just from one conversation with her). 

She's made the best of it, but said that the regret does cross her mind every day, even if it isn't debilitating. 
Our Community / Re: A New And Different Growing - Where Will It Lead? II
« Last post by Trustandlove on May 20, 2018, 11:33:43 PM »
Just quickly, Anjae,

I don't think we chose broken people.  My H and I weren't teenagers, but we were relatively young -- mid 20s.  He had his insecurities, I thought that was what made him human.

I think things happen that change them; they may or may not learn to deal with adversity along the way; I used to think that my H had never learned because he had always been so lucky in everything.

It's all of that and more.  And the traumas that happen along the way, the way they feel about themselves, the way they can (or cannot) get people to enable them, and so on. 

I agree that the longer they carry on that lifestyle the worse it is for their minds and bodies; they do more damage to both. 

Just concurring with the advice to ignore, ignore, ignore.   Just to not engage, do not even acknowledge such behaviour. 

I had one communication from OW4 I think it was; a text sent to me meant for my H "by mistake".  As if she would have my number to even make a mistake with......

I ignored, didn't ask my H, didn't do anything.  That relationship broke up very soon afterwards.

Our Community / Re: Thread 29 - Voyage of the Stardancer
« Last post by Trustandlove on May 20, 2018, 11:27:11 PM »
Hi, Ursa,

I'm glad everything with the launch went well, and it is wonderful that you have such a great group of colleagues, that really makes a difference in our lives.  And I think the idea of exploring ordination is great.  I do think that you do a great job of being true to yourself and showing a good example to your children. 

I have been thinking about things; what I'm writing harks back a few posts, where you say "she should have thought of _____ before she went ahead with divorce", and those things -- I'm not quoting directly or judging, just trying to place this.

I have been trying to put my thoughts into words, not particularly successfully.  I have written and erased a number of times! I hope it is OK to post this on your thread; please let me know if you think it should be elsewhere!

What I think is that so many of our MLCers, when they peek out and say, for example, that they might want to try counselling or many other things, is that at the time they really do mean it, but when they go back and say that too much has happened, or that nothing has changed, or appear again to blame it on us, the LBS, what I think is going on is that in reality they can't forgive themselves, and hence believe that there really is no way that we would forgive them.  It would well be that someone your W has talked to has told her that you wouldn't really forgive, that you would make her suffer for her transgressions.  Or simply that "that train has left", and that there is no way back. 

I'm not saying anything about what you would and wouldn't do, what you should and shouldn't do -- please don't interpret it that way. I also don't think it has anything to do with how you have behaved until now. 

I think they see and hear through those lenses -- so what we do and mean isn't heard or seen as we mean it. 

I know I have even tried to tell my H outright that I am on his side, that he would be forgiven.  He just doesn't believe it, and it's nothing to do with me.  He takes anything at all that I say about accepting responsibility as me wanting to make him suffer.  He even takes the fact that I don't have someone else as "refusing to be happy", and "not accepting reality and not moving on". 

Once, early on, he asked if I could forgive him, I said of course, and he seemed to think about it, then later said that there were "too many resentments".  At the time I thought that he resented me, with hindsight I see that he just couldn't see how I wouldn't resent him. 

I remember just a few years ago asking "what is it going to take for you to see that I am on your side??"; it just went nowhere, and that was during a time when he seemed to be coming forward.  And I have years of experience in walking the tightrope between holding my ground on my beliefs and speaking the truth about his behaviour, and on the other side letting him know that I am there. 

This may even be more the case with female MLCers; whether we like it or not society expects mothers to behave in a certain way, and judges women more harshly for transgressions against their family, or at least judges them differently.  Men get trashed for not supporting their families financially, women for not being there physically day in day out, that kind of thing. 

I think that it may be that fewer female MLCers appear to "return", because they feel that men are less likely (than the other way around) to forgive either an affair or any emotional betrayal.  I do not want to say whether or not that is true, but it may be something that women feel about themselves, that they are the emotional custodians of a relationship and therefore transgressions wouldn't be forgiven.

I know a few female MLCers in real life; in all cases the men "waited" (rather than stood) for no more than 2 years before embarking on new relationships, in all cases the MLCers "came to" a lot later, and regretted what they had done.  One has since died, so the children are of course with their father, so it is moot.  I can't say what would have happened, because none were given the opportunity to return, I think in those cases the men's pride may have been too wounded, but again, that is just a few people. 

One case is particularly sad, as it was the father (the LBS) who was the more family-oriented of the couple in the first place, but once he started a new relationship the family that they had fell apart completely, as his new partner had her own children.  The MLCer in question has a new partner; their girls are now grown but from what I see it's had a very detrimental effect, even though the female MLCer says that "everyone is fine".    This MLCer used to invite me out, and tried to see if I would agree with her; funnily enough, since I told her in no uncertain terms that I didn't, she stopped contacting me....

I hope that all made sense; I am not trying to say anything about you or your behaviour, from what I read you have bent over backwards and worked overtime to be there for your kids in every way.  I also know you have been here before. 

Milly, yup has ow written all over it...sorry that you've received such nastiness. I got anonymous death threats and nasty letters for over 18 months, off and on. My best not respond at all. Block the number. Print them out and file them and/or let your L have a copy in case you need them as 'evidence'....but do not engage with pigs in mud because they like it and are better at it. See it from as distance as just another bit of evidence that ow is not a sane, healthy decent adult, nothing more. Almost definitely it's her reaction to the dropping of the L case...and her opinion of you as a wife, mother and human is a) irrelevant and b) not reality or about you. I suspect she is just p**sed that her L attempt to attack you and 'prove' herself publicly has failed spectacularly so she is coming back for another go at provoking you. Like a fart of disorder. Do not let her do so, do not feed the crazy people.  ::)  ;D

Your H probably didn't know she sent them but will also probably not care or believe you or might even blame you for receiving them. (I know, loopy  ::)...but that's what my H did, and ow is trying to triangulate you in their drama so you win by shaking your head and refusing to feed her.) Too sick, too stupid, too insane for you to even waste a minute of your precious Milly-ness on it IMHO.
Our Community / Re: More Good Wolf for a Good Life...
« Last post by Treasur on May 20, 2018, 10:49:43 PM »
Can't tell you how much it means to share my progress and know that someone is cheering me on.  :)

Beautiful morning here, misty sunshine and the sound of waves and seagulls as I sat with coffee in my courtyard garden here. I'll miss the sound of this garden as the chapel is a little further from the sea. I don't sleep much still, my little bit of LBS fallout, but I really enjoy seeing the sun come up as the day starts fresh so it's a funny kind of gift too.

Focusing my energy on the new has created another phase of letting go of the old. I really want to leave a lot behind me when I move into a new space. Some things still make my heart clench a little, of course, but some things make me smile too and feel grateful for them which is nice. I am in a much calmer positive place than I was even a few months ago. Just need XH to stop d*cking around with the last bits, or more likely for me to circumnavigate his d*ckery so he has no choice left but to go away as he wished.  :)

As some of you might remember, his aunt - his enabler and owner of the posh houseboat he's been camping on for free for over 2 years - was my friend before I even met my H. Over 25 years of friendship. She comes from the same FOO pattern, of course, so her decision to cut me dead too isn't a surprise but it has made me both sad and angry. Chelsea Flower Show is being advertised as it starts soon, just around the corner from the houseboat, and she and I often used to go together. It was one of 'our' she's been on my mind. It's hard because she is 74, albeit a fit glamorous 74, and I have to accept that our friendship is collateral damage too and that I won't even know if she is ill or when she dies. And I loved her as my friend and playmate for many years in her own right, part of my inner tribe. So, I felt the need to let go and say goodbye to her too with this email. I expect no response but I needed to say it.

Dear C

I feel as if you have cut me out of your life which hurts after a long friendship. I don’t know why although I understand the situation must have been difficult for you as Mr T is your nephew. Still I do feel I have been more sinned against than sinning! Mr T has done a lot of extreme and extraordinary things which few people know about, like a bad horror film. It wasn’t a ‘normal’ divorce, C, not even close. It has been a rollercoaster of insanity, too many shocking crazy things to share with anyone actually. And at the same time, I survived the loss of my parents and my own cancer surgery.

As my friend, I thought at least that you would reach out to know I was ok...that you cared about me...but you didn’t. I’m not angry but it made me sad to lose you too as well as my parents and my beloved, even though I assume you did what you thought best.

After a long tough time, I’m fine. I ran away to Sxxxx to escape the threats and find a bit of peace and it did that. I am moving to a new house soon, have a new business, am still slim and sane, and am building a new life with new people in it. Perhaps just like you did after losing Keith but with sadly less support or family to fall back on. I miss all of you, of course I do, and I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to explain the insanity of it all but I’m pleased to have survived it. Grief as you know prunes all of us.

I am well and happy and having new adventures. I wish I could share these with you but I understand that perhaps it is for the best that I can’t, if only for my own safety as Mr T’s behaviour towards me is still quite peculiar and extreme behind his public mask. He is still evidently far from healthy which is sad of course.

But I think of you often and I so enjoyed our friendship. English roses and tulips have your name on them for me, and the adverts for Chelsea flower show. June 11th is a day when I think of you and my father, and smile. Those late nights/early mornings when the birds told us we’d talked through the night again. The sound of your voice and sharing that first coffee of the morning. Helping you find the houseboat and seeing your pleasure in it. Never ever being bored by your company or your mind or your joie de vivre for over two decades.

It would be lovely, even if we can never talk again, to just get an email from you once a year to let me know that you are well and happy because I have learned belatedly that life throws up some tough surprises and that we never stop loving those we treasure. Even in the worst and craziest of life storms!

You were/are one of my treasures and I am truly grateful for you. I really hope that all is well on your bit of the planet and I send you my biggest most honest kisses from here by the sea.


I think there is a strange point in the LBS journey where not only do you stop holding on, but when letting go with grace is almost a relief. When you stop fighting the tides in order to surf new better waves...and that is where I am now and it feels like a good place.
Our Community / Re: Divorce Mediation fast approaching
« Last post by Treasur on May 20, 2018, 10:32:38 PM »'s a tough thing to say, but if your W is in replay still, nothing you text or say will make any difference. The crazy noise in her head is too loud. What you can control is the practical things that safeguard you and your kids the best you can. Focus on that first because mediation with an MLC spouse is rarely an easy, rational or straightforward thing.
Our Community / Still rising
« Last post by Ropeburn on May 20, 2018, 10:28:46 PM »
 I still do not know how to connect  ::) sorry mods tyia

    Still in limbo land about divorce ,thinking probably end up in court. He thinks I don't deserve anything but a place to live  :o,and I should be happy he is going to pay mortgage, I am very happy don't get me worn but that's just not going to cut it.
      I'm not asking for an arm and leg ,I want 300 a month alimony ,until I die (cause I will not remarry) and half his 401k.
     He is getting land we bought together and the boat,truck,4 wheeler..and any guns,bows,etc... I agreed to that my lawyer told me I should ask for more ,but this is what I need so that's good with me.

       Honestly I know i will always love the man I married but this shell of a demon is not him and may never be again . I have gone dark only contact is about bills ,I told him that's all I want right now. I can't be just friends no way .
       I saw a thread on here about sex ,we have had sex many times through this , but the last time I just sensed something was different ,women's intuition?  So I stopped it and asked him to wear protection ,well I guess that request started ww111 lmao. He hollered and ranted so I asked him to leave . Haven't heard a peep since  :-X
     I don't think I was wrong , I want to believe that he is not with anyone ,but I'm not stupid either. So that's where I'm at right now . I have been able to do a little more that just sitting ,still rely on pain meds but I still have my foot ;D. I have been getting out more ,been asked out but no ,I'm still married. I know I'm a cliche a country girl through and through I have high morals and value truth and compassion ,that's just who I am . And you know what I'm a good person in a bad situation that was not of my making ,

     Xoxo RB

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