Author Topic: My Story It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.  (Read 920 times)

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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My Story It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« on: May 10, 2018, 11:03:09 AM »
So, like a good girl I'm starting a new thread.


Here is my old sad thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?action=post;quote=666878;topic=10081.150


Here is the TLDR version of events:
I am 28, a military spouse, a 2nd-year law student, and have recently been accepted into the Air Force ROTC JAG program.
My husband is 30,  an officer in the Army. He is severely depressed. He has low testosterone. He is not on medication. He is not in counseling. He is exhibiting all the signs of MLC.

He dropped the divorce bomb in 2017 for the first time. We worked through things. Then he dropped it again in in March of 2018. This time around he found himself an OW, whom I lovingly call "the barracks wh*r^" behind his back. She is 21 (and looks 5 years older than I), flightly, uneducated, frumpy, unattractive, and lives in half a country away. My husband flew her out and most likely had sex with her. Currently, he is carrying on an emotional affair with her long distance. The OW may or may not have a new boyfriend. I think she's trying to make up her mind between two men and my husband is in hot pursuit.

He is determined to make sure that I am okay. As far as I know, I still get all his benefits if something happens to him. He is deploying to Syria on May 27th, 2018 and will be gone for 9-10 months. He lied to his family and told them that he will be gone a year. He does not want anyone there when he comes back and he expects to come back even more messed up than he already is. He plans to never contact his mother or any other family member again.

We had sex last night for the first time since he asked for divorce and now he's running back to her at full speed.

Objectively speaking, he doesn't care whom he runs to. He tried Tinder while he was dating her. He opened a new Facebook account and is looking for women there. But he did update his picture to them together.

I will be filing for divorce around the day he is due back. I have to.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2018, 11:05:17 AM »
Last replies from my old thread:

How do you jump from leaving money in the account to buying an engagement ring.  I think you are going to damage your ankles with all of that jumping to conclusions.
Easy. Two weeks ago he was looking at cheap engagement rings on his phone. Obsessively. Their price? Just shy of $300 after tax.

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You are very early days and all over the place, which is completely normal.  Your amygdala must be working in overtime.  Yes, it is interesting to know what they are up and most of us spied whether we admit or not, but you will get to the place where you really don't want to know what is going on.
Yes, and I suspect that this time will be somewhere around August 1st, 2018. Can't wait.

But you know, if I hadn't snooped, I may have gone back on getting rid of the lease. That would have been a catastrophic mistake. Snooping, in a weird way, is my reality check.

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I think you have a couple of blessings that maybe you aren't considering.  You are embarking on an exciting new adventure that will keep you busy and engaged.  He is going to a scary, distant place where he will have a lot of time to think about his life and his choices.
Yes, I have thought of that. Hence the dilemma I expressed to Thunder. I will be fine. I'm pretty sure he won't be. I still don't hate him enough to be okay with the later.

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Instead of morbidly thinking about who should get his death benefit (if I'm reading that right), how about forgetting about him entirely and focusing on you and making a date with yourself for a year in the future to reassess where you guys stand, and until then, just free-floating in space, finding peace, finding yourself, and determining your worth. 
I am not this nice. I do not expect him to sign the promissory note or send it. If I did, I would have never written it. Also, tomorrow I am taking out a second insurance policy on him in case he lied to me.

What I wanted was to make sure that he stops talking to me about himself in terms of how much money he is worth for risking his hide. The message, although clumsily delivered, seems to have gotten through.

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You are so young and don't have kids and mortgages and massive joint debt.  Do you ever look at some of us older ones who have been dealing with this a long time and ask yourself whether you still want to be doing this in 20 years.  Still pumping air into that old, tattered tire every time it goes flat.

Give yourself the year.  Have fun, be mysterious.  Do you.
Honestly? I want to lovingly slap every one of you and yell "What are you doing!? Get the F&CK out! You are worth so much more than this!!!"

Guess I love you guys more than I love myself.  ;D

But I am on a forced timeline. I have until he comes back. Then I have to file regardless of what I might want. That's the beauty of my plan! When I wrote it out, I was angry and hurt, and in a much darker place than I am now. This plan keeps rolling no matter how I feel or whether I want to backtrack. Every time I think of reneging, I check up on him and get back to following my script.

What do you mean, it serves you right???  Ah no, you did nothing to deserve this.
I was soft. Lesson learned.

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I think Mort is right, he just freaked out the he was with you, intimately, so he is running.
They get scared of those feeling for you.
Maybe I am the most egotistical woman in the world, but I do believe that this man is in love with me. I know he's messed up. I know he's running. But it is me whom he's concerned about. In his own way, he is making sure that I am okay. He and I will eventually go and get his my.pay password updated so that I can log in. If he lied to me about the benefits, he wouldn't have agreed to go do this - all that information is there.

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Just try not to say anything.  I'm sure she wants this to bother you.
Show them different.  The Queen is not bothered.
It's possible though she doesn't know.
Actually, I think he thinks that I don't know. I think she doesn't think so either. She blocked me on Facebook the minute they started texting--she actually sought out my profile and blocked me (a friend helped me figure that out). They think they're stealthy. He thinks that he can lie to me whom he talks to on the phone or whether the call originated from him. Pfft! Please! These are not bright people.

Also, he told me that she doesn't know about his Tinder excursion... and she definitely doesn't know about last night.

What use is that to me? Lordy! Who knows!?

I just texted him to send me the papers. I gave him my new email with my maiden name on it. Don't intend to be home till about 11 p.m. I have to work on my paper and I have a divorce support group meeting. I will be coming home looking like a million bucks: I'm wearing a romper and tan heels that make my legs look incredible (last time I have worn it, a classmate who's a natural body builder stopped me to tell me that I looked "stunning").

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Will you please start a new thread, Diana?  Thank you.
Will do!


I get the feeling that control might be your 'thing'...good for decisive action and self-discipline but an Achilles heel in this kind of situation because it sucks you into trying to game out the unplayable and control the unknown.
Oh, go with the feeling!

But it's a mixed bag, isn't it?

I took action fast. Looking back, everything I decided to do about the divorce and have done up to now was 100% correct. I may not be able to interact well with him (yet), but I have been spot on when it comes to what to do about him and about my situation.

I shudder to think where I would be if I didn't bully him into giving up the lease, if I didn't block his cards, and if I didn't go to see the divorce lawyer.

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Let it be if you can't let it go. CYA. Keep your emotional tinder dry and see how you feel in 6-9 months.
It's early days so don't feel you have to run at all the fences simultaneously.
But you really don't have to hate him even when you hate what he's doing.
I'd be better of hating him, honestly. My fear is that I will somehow end up with him living on my couch and me taking him to his VA appointments. In perpetuity.  :-\

Online Treasur

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2018, 11:21:21 AM »
Control is a mixed bag, Diana - really good for some stuff but it can be a way of hiding from other stuff. (I am, of course, Ms Pot possibly introducing myself to a younger Ms Kettle...!). Knowing which is often about making a little space for self-truth and chewing before jumping into action. 3 mins, 3 days, 3 weeks. The universe is giving you at least 9 months now that you've triaged the 'clear & present danger' stuff.

Why do you have to file the day he is due back?

PS Love the new thread title  ;D
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 11:22:28 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 11:51:29 AM »
Welcome to you new thread, Diana.

You know a lot can change in 9/10 months.  Maybe see how he acts over the next 6 months or so?  There is no rush, you will be busy too.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 12:04:46 PM »
Control is a mixed bag, Diana - really good for some stuff but it can be a way of hiding from other stuff. (I am, of course, Ms Pot possibly introducing myself to a younger Ms Kettle...!). Knowing which is often about making a little space for self-truth and chewing before jumping into action. 3 mins, 3 days, 3 weeks. The universe is giving you at least 9 months now that you've triaged the 'clear & present danger' stuff.

Why do you have to file the day he is due back?

PS Love the new thread title  ;D
Oh, I fully admit that you are right. And I did want to sleep with him. Sex definitely wasn't as good as I remember, but my chastity belt was beginning to pinch a little. Now I wonder if there is a way to use it to my advantage or if there is any reason to sleep with him again (I may have an opportunity next week).

Right now he's running around getting the paperwork done for me. I think he may have gone back and forth between class and his office several times.

I'm still triaging here, actually. I have a whole grocery list of things that need to get done before he leaves and even more after he goes. For example, I'm almost done consolidating our joint credit card debt. Once that is done, I am freezing his credit. I do not want him taking out another credit card while we are married, and I am terrified that he will give her enough information that she might.

He also had a flight to Chicago show up on his phone feed showing that it is my scheduled flight. I did no such thing and I checked the credit cards - nothing. However, I am now wondering about my checkbook that was sitting in the same drawer as my jewelry. I worry that now I need to check my debit account statement... and since that is my main account, it'll take a while.

It's fires. Always fires.

And now I have to ask myself whether sleeping with him again will make him more pliable or whether it's just something I want because this man and I have had pretty good sex for the past 9 years.


Now, about the divorce. It's simple: jurisdiction.

He will not file now because he has no money to file with and he's really not thinking about doing it either. In his mind, apparently, asking for divorce is as good as going out and getting a divorce.

I cannot file while he is gone because he has to be served with the paperwork and that cannot happen in Syria.

It's not to my advantage financially to file now or while he's gone (even if "while he's gone" was an option).

He will probably try to file when he comes back. Only at that point he will be living in one state and I in another. The divorce laws in the state where I go to school are to my advantage (better than my wildest dreams, actually). The laws in the state where he is stationed are to his advantage. There is no preference on which state to file in - it's whomever files first. Clearly, I intend to file first.


Welcome to you new thread, Diana.

You know a lot can change in 9/10 months.  Maybe see how he acts over the next 6 months or so?  There is no rush, you will be busy too.
Thunder, unless I read that girl wrong, he will be coming home to nothing and no one. He will have no house. His car will not run. And I will leave in his account exactly what he is entitled to by law: 1/2 of his paycheck after the debt payment. I'll be amazed if his cellphone will be working by that point.

If he ever chooses to crawls back to me, it will be then. Sometimes I think that's what I want. But I also know him. He will not contact me when he's overseas. I don't expect to hear from him even once unless there is an emergency. So, do I really want to be his last resort? Do I want him running back to me because he has nothing else left?

No, I have to file. If something changes, then he needs to convince me not to go through with this. If not, at least I'll be okay financially.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 01:50:37 PM »
So... Holy God, update! I'm so sick to my stomach that I am I doing my best right now not to vomit.

I don't know where to begin. Beginning, I guess?

It all happened in the span of less than an hour.

He searched for me on Facebook. Then he searched for his sister. Then he searched how to block accounts. Then he changed his name on Facebook. Then he blocked two accounts. I used my main account and saw that he indeed blocked me. I then used my mule account and found him with no problem. Then he searched for the option to delete his account. And then he deleted his account. Between blocking me and deleting his new Facebook account a total of 3 minutes has elapsed.

I refreshed the timeline again and saw his phone feed. Some of it is a mixture of what I searched for and what he searched for... But there is one thing I know I never searched for: Assisted Suicide.

We own no guns. My husband is not a violent person. If he was to take his own life, it'd be with pills.

He did not use Chrome to search for that, if he did search for it - I would have seen it. But if he used another app like Wikipedia, it'd still pop up on the feed.

So, I don't know if he actually searched for it. I know that I didn't.

My first instinct is to go home and wait for him. I don't know if I'm overreacting.

So, yeah, here I am.

Offline Unraveled

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 01:59:04 PM »
There is a significant difference between assisted suicide and suicide.  Does he have some terminal illness (I'm guessing you could tell by looking at him if he really wanted assisted suicide)?  You definitely need to calm way down.  He may not have even typed it.  Maybe he was curious on behalf of someone else.  I would absolutely not mention it to him.  He's just cycling. The Facebook stuff is probably just trying to keep you from figuring out what he is up to.  This is just like the ring thing.  Looking at rings and having some stupid fantasy is not the same thing as about to propose.  If you don't stop this your cortisol levels are going to go through the roof and then you'll have all the problems associated with that (including weight gain).

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 02:09:12 PM »
I may get a slap on the wrist for this, but I think it's important because your spouse is so young AND currently military. "MLC" as we believe it to be shares a lot of symptoms with other disorders, but is not something that happens to people in their 20s (we sometimes do talk about the "quarter life crisis" happening then, but that's almost less popular in the mainstream view than MLC is!). That can actually be good news because in your spouse's case, he may be treatable, especially for his depression. If it's bipolar (which often starts being symptomatic in a person's 20's), medication can regulate things. Or talk therapy can help if he is open to it, in order to get a plan going to help him function better. If it's PTSD, that's also something that can benefit from services the VA offers. My next door neighbor presents a LOT like my bipolar/MLC xH, but is neither of those things - he's PTSD from Desert Storm, which was triggered a few years ago when he became a police officer. He's thriving in treatment now.

Have you thought about reaching out to the VA for some information? I know you probably don't want to report anything due to how it may affect his career, but I know my neighbor's wife has benefited from being active in his treatment and keeping herself in the loop.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

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Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 02:49:27 PM »
There is a significant difference between assisted suicide and suicide.  Does he have some terminal illness (I'm guessing you could tell by looking at him if he really wanted assisted suicide)?  You definitely need to calm way down.  He may not have even typed it.  Maybe he was curious on behalf of someone else.  I would absolutely not mention it to him.  He's just cycling. The Facebook stuff is probably just trying to keep you from figuring out what he is up to.  This is just like the ring thing.  Looking at rings and having some stupid fantasy is not the same thing as about to propose.  If you don't stop this your cortisol levels are going to go through the roof and then you'll have all the problems associated with that (including weight gain).
So, before he commissioned, he was a field medic. There are plenty of assisted suicide websites that tell you how many pills to take and the pills can be obtained over the counter. He had suicide prevention training, so, he would know this.

You also haven't seen him last night or this morning. He was scaring me. Much of what he told me isn't new. The depression. The fear that his old self is gone. The belief that he is not a good person. The desire to be forgotten. The desire to be alone.

"Finish line," now that's a new one and he wasn't talking about it in the long term. He's not mine anymore, I know that, but this is different.

The odds of me gaining weight are slim to none - I stop eating when I am stressed.  ;D

I may get a slap on the wrist for this, but I think it's important because your spouse is so young AND currently military. "MLC" as we believe it to be shares a lot of symptoms with other disorders, but is not something that happens to people in their 20s (we sometimes do talk about the "quarter life crisis" happening then, but that's almost less popular in the mainstream view than MLC is!). That can actually be good news because in your spouse's case, he may be treatable, especially for his depression. If it's bipolar (which often starts being symptomatic in a person's 20's), medication can regulate things. Or talk therapy can help if he is open to it, in order to get a plan going to help him function better. If it's PTSD, that's also something that can benefit from services the VA offers. My next door neighbor presents a LOT like my bipolar/MLC xH, but is neither of those things - he's PTSD from Desert Storm, which was triggered a few years ago when he became a police officer. He's thriving in treatment now.

Have you thought about reaching out to the VA for some information? I know you probably don't want to report anything due to how it may affect his career, but I know my neighbor's wife has benefited from being active in his treatment and keeping herself in the loop.
I begged him to get help. I knew he needed it for a while. He refuses because it will ruin his career. Most of our fights this past fall were about him getting help.

And therein lies the problem. If he gets treated for whatever he has, he will not be able to deploy and he will be kicked out of the service in a few years for lacking that deployment patch and hitting the "up and out" wall. I cannot go talking to anyone behind his back - it's just not my choice to make.

If I have to, I will get him committed, but that would have to be a last resort thing.

Sadly, I do think that he is treatable. However, he cannot even go to see a therapist on his insurance because the military would require that therapist to report back every red flag, and my husband has A LOT of those. Aggression, emotional withdrawal, indifference to his own life--he doesn't even need to have suicidal thoughts because he's a giant walking red flag with or without them.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »
Totally understood. Mine was an army reservist for six years, inactive ready reserve for two. Activated during Desert Storm, but his unit worked it where he served stateside (at his unit in our city even). When he would travel yearly with them for their two week duty in San Diego, he would have an episode. Of course back then, I was a very young girl and had no idea what all of it meant long term. But in hindsight, I see he likely had shown some signs of something and in order to keep him enlisted, they pulled some strings to keep him out of longer term active duty. I guess in that regard you'll have the benefit of his unit also being with him day in/day out, and you will no longer be the only one who is seeing how he presents. They can keep a mask on some of the time, but not 24/7. I think that's also what happened with my neighbor and why he is no longer able to be a police officer (or work at all - he is on disability).
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 03:18:59 PM »
Totally understood. Mine was an army reservist for six years, inactive ready reserve for two. Activated during Desert Storm, but his unit worked it where he served stateside (at his unit in our city even). When he would travel yearly with them for their two week duty in San Diego, he would have an episode. Of course back then, I was a very young girl and had no idea what all of it meant long term. But in hindsight, I see he likely had shown some signs of something and in order to keep him enlisted, they pulled some strings to keep him out of longer term active duty. I guess in that regard you'll have the benefit of his unit also being with him day in/day out, and you will no longer be the only one who is seeing how he presents. They can keep a mask on some of the time, but not 24/7. I think that's also what happened with my neighbor and why he is no longer able to be a police officer (or work at all - he is on disability).
And that is what worries me too. He has never been gone for more than a month in a field situation. Sure, there was Basic, AIT, OCS, BLOCK, but those were not straight field problems and lives didn't depend on him.

He had two weeks in the field before Christmas of 2017. He was getting yelled at. He was freaking out that the people he works with are incompetent and will end up getting soldiers killed when they deploy. A Sgt. he liked died of a heart attack in his home within a day of his retirement. I was in another city taking finals. He came home for one evening so that he could go to the funeral and when we talked on the phone he broke down crying and told me that he can't do this job anymore.

What will he be like after 9 months?

I get that there will be people there watching him. I do. And that may well keep him alive. But if he goes off the rails, it will be very bad and very public. He won't be killing or raping anyone, but I can imagine him doing anything short of that. And if he mages to not do anything crazy, I dread to see what will be returning home. He knows it too. And he basically said that he's not planning to get help even then: "there's plenty of crazy captains running around - I saw them and no one pays any attention."

Online Insecurity_08

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 02:13:48 AM »
Oh, I fully admit that you are right. And I did want to sleep with him. Sex definitely wasn't as good as I remember, but my chastity belt was beginning to pinch a little. Now I wonder if there is a way to use it to my advantage or if there is any reason to sleep with him again (I may have an opportunity next week).

And now I have to ask myself whether sleeping with him again will make him more pliable or whether it's just something I want because this man and I have had pretty good sex for the past 9 years.

I get this. On one hand I don't want to be sleeping with someone who is also sleeping with someone else (probably anyway, I'm not 100%, but I have severe suspicions). On the other hand I miss it so badly and it was good. As far as I know anyway since h was my first partner. It's only been 2 months since BD. And I cannot imagine it lasting for months and months without having anything physical. And since I don't want to date anyone else for now. That is what I choose to do.

But you know what you might regret somethings that happened the other night. But don't defend yourself for your choices (my therapist told me the same thing).

Online Treasur

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 03:51:03 AM »
From what you say, Diana, your H is undoubtedly loopy (technical term  ;D ) and I would guess the strain of deployment will probably make that worse not better. The affair stuff hurts so it confuses our perspective as a spouse, I think. MLC does mimic/include a lot of other disorders and mental illness - any chance your H is less MLC and mentally ill? Any past history of severe depression, bipolar etc? If so, does that change your perspective at all?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 05:30:18 AM »
So, I just have adventures after adventures!

My husband came home. I asked him politely about the assisted suicide thing (I lied that it showed up on my feed). He was surprised and said "absolutely not." I'll choose to believe it for now, but I will keep an eye on him.

He again looked upset that I looked like I was going on a date. He seems really preoccupied with that as of late. Told me that I should tell someone where I'm going so that if something happens to me people know where to check.  :o

Then he kept fussing about how I need to eat more. I told him that I was going out to dinner but he still tried to feed me tomatoes off his plate (like with his fork). I ate one and it made him seem happier.

Then I got a call from a credit company to confirm the applicant identity. Since the loan is in my husband's name, I had him confirm. He looked truly horrified when he heard the number. That was a very subdued man by the end of it.

Then we ended up taking again. He truly believes that I was not family oriented and too career oriented. He doesn't see me driving to see him every weekend, cooking him meals, setting up his house, making sure that everything he needs is bought/arranged/taken care of. He doesn't think I was doing any of those things for him.  :o

I got angry and yelled at him for being an idiot. And yes, I actually explained why he was being an idiot. He seemed subdued and looked a little guilty.

What I found most interesting about that interaction is how eager he is to tell me things. He claims that he cannot talk to me, but when he wants to talk about something that matters to him, it's me that he will be talking to. Without being prompted, he told me how much he hates social media and how bored he is in class that they have to do for work. He said that he made a new Facebook account today (lies, he made it a couple of days ago) and that he deleted it today because he just couldn't stand being on Facebook and seeing updates of everything that people eat for dinner or every time their kid farts (not sure if true, since he deleted it immediately after blocking me). Point is, even though he did not feel he could tell me the whole truth, he wanted to tell me something. It's like he needs to talk to me, like those weeks with no communication were lonely for him. So, in spite of non-stop texting and calling the OW is not meeting his social needs? How interesting!

We said "bye" on good terms and I took off for my MeetUp GAL thing. Half way to the restaurant, a car decided to merge into me at an intersection. I attempted to avoid and collided into a median barrier. The driver sped away instead of pulling over and exchanging insurance information. I called my husband and told him to come get me. I don't know why. I expected him to say "no." Instead, he asked where I was and said that he'd be on his way. Afterwards I called 911 and filed a police report. I got another call from my husband telling me that he'd be getting gas and then he'd be there. (A play-by-play? Really now?)

He arrived promptly and we ended up sitting in his car together and talking. The police cruiser was parked behind my car and we were waiting for the tow truck to come get me off the median.

We talked about what he's going to do when he comes back - he doesn't know yet and he doesn't think that there will be anyone waiting for him. He thinks that he'll just "figure things out." I told him that if he was willing to to to individual counseling and talk about his issues - all of them, I'd be willing to do the legwork to find him a place. He told me that he'd think about it, but that he didn't want to go to someone like our marriage therapist because he really didn't like the guy (probably because the man looked at me with the same expression that everyone else does: "that poor woman.")

Then the conversation went on to the OW.

1. She claims she is a nurse. She's 21 and prior service. She may be working in the medical field, but she is NOT a full nurse. I told him as much and he looked like he did the mental math for the first time on that subject.
2. She has a boyfriend and he and she were and are together. She came to see my husband while in a relationship with another man. I decided to treat this revaluation like I would if a friend told me this. Basically, I told him that he is a wh*r^ and morally bankrupt for doing what he's doing to that man. I asked him if he thinks that the other guy knows about him. It went something like "yes, you don't know him and you owe him nothing, but you should have enough respect for yourself and for other people to not do this to him and to walk away from this situation." He again looked like he never thought about this and said that she and he will need to have a talk.
3. I told him that he needs to stop trying to buy his friends--that he is good enough as is. If he wants to, we can go out or set him up an online dating profile, but what he's doing is nonsense.

We talked about our relationship some more. He told me that he often felt emasculated by me. I asked for examples and he gave me some. I mean, he's not wrong. But there's just one big problem:

Me: "Romeo, why didn't you say anything? All you had to do was tell me that I was being hurtful - I would have stopped and apologized on the spot."
Him: "I like to keep things to myself."
Me: "Then how in God's name are you supposed to have a relationship with anyone if you don't ask for what you need and bring up issues as they come up?"
Him: "I guess you can't..."

And then I sincerely apologized for everything that was my fault and gave him a hug and a soft kiss on the lips. To my surprise, he was kissing back.

I asked him if he wanted to apologize for anything and he said that he was sorry that he was such a difficult person to be married to and that he was very volatile.

Me: "Well, that's kind of the problem, isn't it? People don't change in their essence, not really. I am the volatile one - always have been and always will be. I get angry, I blow up, and then I apologize. I can't change who I am. All I can do is make an honest effort at making my outbursts less frequent and less volatile. I'd like to think that I have done that since we got married."
Him: "You think so?"
Me: "Yes, I do. You don't?"
Him: "No, I really think you have. You grew up a lot over the years."
Me: "Thank you... but this is the problem--I am the one with a quick temper, not you. You have always been incredibly calm and mellow. Your anger and your outbursts are recent. This is not part of your personality--it's part of whatever is hurting you. I can deal with someone who's volatile, so that is not the problem. The problem is that it's very hard to witness your outbursts when I know that they happen because you are hurting and I can't help."

He decided he wanted us to go to a coffee shop and spent some time looking up the coffee places near us. After my car finally got lifted off the curb, we assessed the damage (still drivable, but insurance company will have to take care of the undercarriage damage and the damage to the front bumper) and went to get a cup of coffee. We sat outside, shared two cookies (he ate most of both), and talked some more. I said that these past few days have been the best time I had with him in a long time. He agreed and told me that he felt the same way. I said "that's because we're actually talking."

All in all, we had a good evening. I promised I'd eat something when I came home and he sat with me to make sure I ate. He's sleeping in the other room now, so, I gave him a hug good night and asked if he has anyone who will be sending him care packages to Syria. He named off a couple of buddies (who are flakes, by the way), but did not mention the OW. I asked if he'd mind if I sent him packages. He said that he would like that and thanked me.

I checked the text and call logs before I went to bed and was surprised to see that even though he was on his phone, he hasn't texted her once when we were together. He did send her two texts last night after he went to bed, but they were not answered until this morning.

My friend finally received my texts about the car accident in the wee hours of the morning (I had some trouble getting signal at this intersection, so, I'm not surprised). He asked if I wanted him to call... and even though it was 4:30 a.m., I said "yes." I knew that hubbie was awake, so, I went and had that phone call on the landing. I made sure to say nothing that would make him angry, but based on my end of the conversation, he has to have figured out that I was talking to a guy who knows about my situation and who likes me enough to call at 4:30 in the morning.

After that call, he and OW were texting each other furiously. But when he left his bedroom, he did not take his phone with him, which is a big change from earlier. He seemed to want to talk to me--about literally anything. He even came into my bedroom under the pretext of touching one of the cats. When I came into his (we were moving and talking), he made sure to tell me that he's texting his male co-worker. I looked at him and told him that he doesn't have to tell me whom he's texting and he seemed embarrassed and a little hurt. Also, he's been calling me by my full name this morning, which he knows I hate... so, jealous?



So... all in all things are going far better than I could have expected.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 07:32:47 AM »
From what you say, Diana, your H is undoubtedly loopy (technical term  ;D ) and I would guess the strain of deployment will probably make that worse not better. The affair stuff hurts so it confuses our perspective as a spouse, I think. MLC does mimic/include a lot of other disorders and mental illness - any chance your H is less MLC and mentally ill? Any past history of severe depression, bipolar etc? If so, does that change your perspective at all?
He is extremely depressed. But he also has low testosterone. So, I'm really not sure about what is going on with him. But something isn't right about him - that much I do know.

What do you mean by "does it change your perspective"? In what way?


Oh, I fully admit that you are right. And I did want to sleep with him. Sex definitely wasn't as good as I remember, but my chastity belt was beginning to pinch a little. Now I wonder if there is a way to use it to my advantage or if there is any reason to sleep with him again (I may have an opportunity next week).

And now I have to ask myself whether sleeping with him again will make him more pliable or whether it's just something I want because this man and I have had pretty good sex for the past 9 years.

I get this. On one hand I don't want to be sleeping with someone who is also sleeping with someone else (probably anyway, I'm not 100%, but I have severe suspicions). On the other hand I miss it so badly and it was good. As far as I know anyway since h was my first partner. It's only been 2 months since BD. And I cannot imagine it lasting for months and months without having anything physical. And since I don't want to date anyone else for now. That is what I choose to do.

But you know what you might regret somethings that happened the other night. But don't defend yourself for your choices (my therapist told me the same thing).
I have the same difficulty. I never slept with anyone else.

But yes, I do suspect that he has no idea what he wants anymore. That is very good for me.

He's also very jealous. He has never been jealous of me before. But me not being home and getting a ton of texts/calls is starting to bother him. A lot.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2018, 07:48:10 AM »
Diana,

Sometimes the jealous comes from their own conscience. He may be thinking you're doing the same thing he is.

The only thing I would caution you about is, don't try to make him jealous.  It can backfire on you.
It could end up giving him the go ahead because he'll think ...why not?  She's doing it too type thing.  Taking some of the guilt away from him.
Let him own his guilt.

I always made it clear to my H as long as I was his wife, there will be no one else involved.  Just to let him know, as long as he is my H, he should have the same respect for our marriage.
If he wanders off in that direction, then he can sit with the guilt.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Insecurity_08

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2018, 07:54:22 AM »
I have the same difficulty. I never slept with anyone else.

But yes, I do suspect that he has no idea what he wants anymore. That is very good for me.

He's also very jealous. He has never been jealous of me before. But me not being home and getting a ton of texts/calls is starting to bother him. A lot.


Mine has never been jealous. Maybe this one time I saw a glimpse of jealousy on his face. We were at this festival a hot actor came up to me and iedereen a beer. He was gone and I told my best friend. Gosh he is taller then I expected and as hot as I thought he was. H overheard and his face turned afterwards he starting talking about what an arrogant guy he believed this man to be.

And maybe this other time when a friend who used to have feelings for me started talking to me on chat in the beginning of my R with h. “I see on FB you did started dating him ...” This guy was always flirty with me. So at the end of our conversation I said I’m going to go now my BF just arrived. And he said “don’t do anything naughty   ;).” H saw this comment pulled me close and initiated sex. Like he taught if I want her to do anything naughty, I will get her to. These were the only two times during our R. That I saw some kind of jealousy.

Also h he knows I sent a lot of texts with my best friend. So when he sees me texting now. He suspects it’s with her.

So I’m hoping in time I’ll might see some jealousy again. When we are a bit farther in this and he thinks it’s a man I’m texting with. Or it maybe even be really a man, but not someone I pursue to date.

I also find it funny that your h said that he wants to know where your at. If something should happen to you. Quite similar as what mine said regarding having the cops at our door no  ;)?

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2018, 08:15:19 AM »
I think if the jealousy comes naturally, good!

I just wouldn't do it deliberately.

I remember one time we took the dogs to a dog park.  Now usually everyone is very friendly and talk to each other.
Well this one guy kind of stuck himself to us as we walked around, nothing too unusual.  But after awhile my H walked off in another direction with one of the dogs, which again is not unusual.

When we finally got back with each other he said he just couldn't stand how that man was follows us around so much...well following YOU around.   :o
I was a bit taken back because he got jealous for no reason.  But I rather like it, it showed he wasn't quite as disconnected as I thought.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Insecurity_08

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2018, 08:23:05 AM »
I think if the jealousy comes naturally, good!

I just wouldn't do it deliberately.

I remember one time we took the dogs to a dog park.  Now usually everyone is very friendly and talk to each other.
Well this one guy kind of stuck himself to us as we walked around, nothing too unusual.  But after awhile my H walked off in another direction with one of the dogs, which again is not unusual.

When we finally got back with each other he said he just couldn't stand how that man was follows us around so much...well following YOU around.   :o
I was a bit taken back because he got jealous for no reason.  But I rather like it, it showed he wasn't quite as disconnected as I thought.

That’s why I would like to see it too. To see this whole we are just friends bubble burst. But no I wouldn’t do it intentionally. And if he were ever to ask I would say the same as you do. As long as we are married I won’t date!

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2018, 08:35:48 AM »
Yep, I drove that home a few times.  He would make some silly remark about..oh, you must have been with your bf, huh? (kidding of course). 
I just said..Nope no bf, I'm married, I don't date other men.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 09:08:52 AM »
Actually, I was very upfront with him.

I told him that I never wanted divorce. I told him that our relationship is not unfixable. I told him that I will be fine whether we stay together or not. I told him that he thinks that he makes all the choices, but that is not the case: if he wants to come back, he has a window of opportunity, but it is closing and closing a lot faster than he might think.

He insisted on knowing what it is that I'm doing with the guy whom I keep seeing. I looked at him like he was insane and told him that I was married and that I am not dating anyone: "Romeo, you asked for a divorce a month ago. We are not legally separated. No paperwork has been filed. What sort of man would want to date me right now? I'm not in the habit of picking up trash."

And yet he keeps asking every day.

I also told him upfront that I did not think it would be healthy to start a relationship until a year after divorce is finalized. He replied that I was probably making a smart decision.

But he's still jealous. He's still making comments about texts. My phone was blowing up at breakfast and it was driving him nuts... and yet he insisted on sitting with me downstairs at the kitchen nook for over an hour.

To him, I'm still his. Actions have consequences. He's now living the consequences of his actions. The images he creates in his head are of his own making. I simply choose not to hide my texts or calls. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2018, 09:32:07 AM »
Well, then you have done nothing wrong.

You can't stop him from thinking what ever he wants.  You know, after awhile it gets old.

I finally, after my H kept bringing up a bf I started agreeing with him.  "Yep, I was with my bf again.  "You're right, you caught me, I was with my bf again."

Of course it was said sarcastically, and he knew it, but he finally stopped.

I did this with a few other things too.
Like how if he couldn't find something it was.."I can't find such and such, where did you put it?" or "What did you do with it?"  I DIDN'T EVEN LIVE THERE!
I defended myself enough times where I finally played along.  "I hid it on you so you couldn't find it."  "I'm not telling you, you're just going to have to find my hiding spot."
Stopped that too.

It's dumb game playing but sometimes when they say stupid things, just agree with them.  At least it stops any arguments.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2018, 09:54:31 AM »
Well, then you have done nothing wrong.

You can't stop him from thinking what ever he wants.  You know, after awhile it gets old.

I finally, after my H kept bringing up a bf I started agreeing with him.  "Yep, I was with my bf again.  "You're right, you caught me, I was with my bf again."

Of course it was said sarcastically, and he knew it, but he finally stopped.

I did this with a few other things too.
Like how if he couldn't find something it was.."I can't find such and such, where did you put it?" or "What did you do with it?"  I DIDN'T EVEN LIVE THERE!
I defended myself enough times where I finally played along.  "I hid it on you so you couldn't find it."  "I'm not telling you, you're just going to have to find my hiding spot."
Stopped that too.

It's dumb game playing but sometimes when they say stupid things, just agree with them.  At least it stops any arguments.
Oh, these are not arguments. He wouldn't permit himself to do that. These are jabs and snide comments: "What do you and that guy do together anyway? Do you like go hiking or do you just sit around. Yeah, that's what I thought - you probably just sit around" or "Wow! Your phone is really blowing up! Must have been some dinner you've missed!"

This is very out of character for him. He was never jealous of me before. Also, he knows that he cannot make demands of me, and I think that both makes it worse for him and moderates his behavior. See, if he lets this escalate into a fight, he'll know that I know that he's jealous, and he can't have that happen, now can he?

At the same time, the more jealous he gets, the more he fusses over me. Today he asked that I pick up some cat litter. I said okay. Then I demanded that I make a shopping list. I took out a piece of paper and wrote down cat litter. Then I'm like "what else?" So, he insisted that I put protein powder on the list because he believes that I "need it." That's it. That's the whole list.

After I drank the shake he made me, he became upset that I wouldn't eat a protein cookie, so, he decided to count the exact amount of calories I had that morning and when he saw that it was 300 he decided that it'd be okay.

Yesterday he told me that we grew apart because I am too career-oriented. So, today at breakfast I asked if he would read a case in his spare time. (It's the most gruesome case I could think of with the most unfair judicial outcome I've ever read.) He said that my cases are boring and that he doesn't have the time. So, I sent it to him anyway and told him that he didn't need to read the dissent, although the dissent is arguably the best part, because it's the opinion that I really wanted him to read. What did he do? Read both the opinion and the dissent and then texted me that he agreed with dissent.

I'm home till 3 today, so, he told me that he will do his best to make it home for lunch (Um... did I ask him to? No.). I know he has no idea why I had him read the case. Good! I want him to finally see who the woman he married is and that kind of message comes across a lot easier when you don't expect it.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2018, 07:15:57 PM »
Diana,

You could just say.."Actually we do both, sometimes we go hiking and sometimes we just sit around.  Depends on our mood"

"Yes my phone is blowing up.  Maybe I did miss a dinner, you're probably right."

The other thing you could say is "Please don't worry about me, I'm feeling very health right now, I like my weight, but thank for your concern.  I'm good"

Just suggestions.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2018, 07:20:49 PM »
Diana,

You could just say.."Actually we do both, sometimes we go hiking and sometimes we just sit around.  Depends on our mood"

"Yes my phone is blowing up.  Maybe I did miss a dinner, you're probably right."

The other thing you could say is "Please don't worry about me, I'm feeling very health right now, I like my weight, but thank for your concern.  I'm good"

Just suggestions.
These are very good suggestions. Can you tell me why you made them? (I'm actually really curious what you are thinking.)

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2018, 09:10:48 PM »
Diana,

I honestly think for the most part they have "pity parties" for themselves.  It's a victim thing.

When you stop playing these games with them they realize you are no longer playing into them.


With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2018, 10:09:52 AM »
Diana,

I honestly think for the most part they have "pity parties" for themselves.  It's a victim thing.

When you stop playing these games with them they realize you are no longer playing into them.
Well, I followed your advice, and OMG did sh!t ever happen!!!

But let me backtrack. I continued doing what I was doing: switching between pulling away and making him jealous vs. showing him affection and concern. I started changing between the two at the drop of the needle. By the time he leaves, he won't know which way is up.

Since Friday was my pull away day, a guy friend and I were texting each other non-stop. Of course, he reciprocated by texting his OW. Upsetting? Yes, but I planned on it, so, it's that whole "actions and consequences" thing again. So, I had my friend give me a call and strategically placed my phone on the coffee table where he sat. When the call came through, he saw the display and read the name out loud with a question in his voice. I ignored him and picked up.

I let him hear as much of that conversation as I wanted him to hear: (1) that I'm grateful to my friend for calling early in the morning, (2) that my life is beginning to resemble a Latin American soap opera - a husband with a mistress and the mistress has a boyfriend, (3) that he spends all his mistress-free time checking under every cushion for my imaginary boyfriend, and (4) that I'm really excited about my friend running a marathon.

Then I went out to walk the trail behind our house. The phone call lasted an hour and I was still on the phone discussing the latest superhero movies (something my husband and I used to do) when I came home. I opened the front door sat down and started picking rocks out of the soles of my running shoes, still talking to my friend. Romeo got SUUUUPER pissy. He started yelling that I need to close the door before the cats get out and things like that. I told him to go away, finished my call, and went inside.

We had dinner that he made us - meatloaf. I kept texting. So was he. But we were talking some. He's upset that I told my friends about the divorce since I was the one who asked him not to tell anyone. I said that I told a few close friends and that I didn't see a big deal of it. Then he suggested I go buy bread so that we can make meatloaf sandwiches for lunches. I said that I didn't feel like going since I'm not really eating carbs. So, in a couple of minutes he offered to go together and suggested that we buy beer too. We went and I made him drive while I texted. (This is something that he used to do before I found out about the OW).

Since I have now successfully friendzoned my husband (that's right, I beat him to the punch), he tells me everything:

1. So, she claims that she doesn't have sex with the other boyfriend.
2. She claims that moving jobs to where he's at wouldn't be hard.
3. She's still on the fence. He told her about the debt (but I suspect not everything) but she doesn't care (yes, but she didn't spend any money when she was here either, wait till she learns how much he'll have left in divorce).
4. He told her that she has until July to make up her mind.
5. She promised to email him, write him letters, and send packages when he's overseas (I wouldn't hold my breath, if I was him).
6. He claims he doesn't love her but if they start living together maybe he will.
7. He claims she knows about his anger issues (I doubt it - certainly not about their extent)
8. While she was here, if they weren't out eating, they were getting wasted (so, even if she knows about his anger issues, she's apparently okay with him drinking those away)

At home, he ended up drinking about half a 12-pack of beer. I took a few sips from him... and then I followed Thunder's advice. First, I went into the kitchen to work on my paper. He was a little off about me not staying back to watch Dr. Who with him since he offered to wait. Then, when he again made a comment about my weight, I used the language that Thunder suggested. Then I went to take a shower and didn't think much of the conversation.

Well, on the way downstairs, I asked if he thought it was hot inside because I was thinking about turning on the AC. So, naturally, he began with a snide and condescending tirade about how I'm always cold... and I just went off on him. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I got so tired of his hypocrisy and that is exactly what I told him:

1. I am tired of him making condescending comments about my weight
2. I am tired of him making snide comments about how I'm always going out to see some guy
3. I am tired of him making snide comments about everything, actually, while claiming that he is offended by the way that I talk to him
4. I am tired of getting to a point where I think "hey, maybe this is a nice human being that I can talk to" only to have him go back to acting like a turd because he suddenly realized that he's been amiable for too long

This argument went on for a couple of hours: we'd butt heads then go to our separate corners. He claimed that this is why he can't talk to me and that he hasn't been able to for the last 3 years. That is not true. In his mind, the last 1.5 years is 3 years and the happy years of our marriage are condensed (for example, he remembers the first 3 years as 1 year). Yeah, no mental health problems to see here. Move right along!

We went back to our separate corners one last time. After a while, I decided to call him and see what happens, so, I yelled "Hey, Romeo, the paper I'm writing is due tonight and I am passing out! Please, come sit with me." And... he came! No sighs. No objections. He came, sat down across the table, and began entertaining me with YouTube videos and small talk. He was still texting her, sure, but he was having a good time with me too. Then we started talking about military. I think he's beginning to realize that I have a lot more first-hand understanding now than before and that I am now someone he can talk to about these things. He enjoyed my ROTC stories. We b!tched about the same issues. Then he offered to bring me a Halal MRE to try (they're super-expensive but apparently the best you can get as far as MREs go).

I finished and read him my 20-page paper. He thought it was boring, but listened. The topic was Global Climate Change and U.S. National Security. But I also think that he was a tad intimidated because even though national security is something that he has learned, what I was reading to him was going over his head. I think our disparity in education makes him more insecure than he'd like to admit. But he told me "good job" and I submitted the paper.

Somehow, and I have no idea how, we ended up in the kitchen hugging. He told me it was a good hug and kissed me on the lips. I asked him what he was doing and he did not understand the question, so I clarified that he never kisses me on the lips. He looked sad and kissed me on the forehead. I pulled his head down and kissed him gently on the lips... and he started making out with me. We were just standing in the kitchen and kissing for a long time. Then he wanted sex again. I turned down the kitchen sex and told him that if he wanted to do it, he could come upstairs and left. And you know what? He did!

So, here is the weird part about what happened. When we were having sex, he was kissing me more than he did during sex in the past year or so. He was again obsessed with leaving marks on my neck--aggressively so. He told me that no one else can have me and then backtracked and said that he doesn't care what I do. He tried calling me his "s!ut" and "wh*re" again. It's something that he started doing since November of 2016. However, this time around I just laughed at him and told him that I wasn't his anything. He kept trying and kept getting the same response (one time he even tried telling me that I will always be his s!ut--again, I laughed at him). This lasted good 30 to 45 minutes and then ended because he couldn't ejaculate. That's right! Unless he hasn't had sex in a long time (like the first time we did it), he cannot ejaculate unless he can call me his s!ut or his wh*re.

Look, I know this may be TMI, guys, but this is bloody weird, no? I really want your opinion on this.

After we finished, he was super angry and super aggressive with me. Told me this is probably the last time he and I will have sex. I said "Look, I enjoy having sex with you, but your behavior afterwards is frankly inappropriate. Whatever guilt, anger, and remorse you have to work through, do it. Because while I like having sex with you, I have no wish to deal with the way you act afterwards." This went on for a while and ended with me tucking him into his bed, giving him a peck on the forehead, and repeating the same message in a kinder tone. He looked at me like a little kid when I did that. Later that night, he was snoring so badly that I came into his room to fix his pillow. He again seemed happy that I was checking in on him, like a little boy.

I checked the phone logs the following morning - he neither called nor texted her after we had sex. He only resumed texting in the morning after he woke up.

Since he was up, I asked him to help me take my overnight bag and briefcase downstairs. He thinks that I am going to stay with friends or a boyfriend--I never told him anything, but this is what he assumes. Still, he did with zero complaints. (Before he would have b!tched to no end.) He told me to have a good time and that if something happens I can always call him. (Looks like he WAS listening in on my 4:30 a.m. conversation on Friday morning! I'm thinking of making those a once-every-couple-of-days thing.)

And have a great time I did! I went to graduation ceremony, 3 graduation parties, and a friend's birthday party. Didn't get back to my in-law's house till 12:30 in the morning.

My husband? He texted her all day yesterday, so, if his coworker came over then he was being a very poor host. There were no calls between them. I noticed that there's almost never any calls on weekends. (This man is a fool if he thinks that she's not sleeping with that guy.) He woke up at 2 a.m. sent her 3 text messages, drove to work, and then drove home. I thought it may have been a work emergency, but he got no texts or calls from anyone. I think he has trouble sleeping. He's been waking up at odd hours of the night all week.

It's now almost 11 a.m. where he's at and at least noon where she's at, and the best I can tell, she still has not gotten back to him.

Me? I gave my mother-in-law a card and a giftcard for mother's day. She seemed a little sad that I signed it for her son. I always do, but I think she's starting to catch on that I am the only reason that she ever gets a card and a gift for any holiday. She and I are going to the movies later. Then I will have dinner with her and my father-in-law. Then I'll go chat with a good girlfriend about everything that's been going on. We'll be eating ice cream and gossiping.

And you know what? I'm starting to truly pity him. I'm living life. It's not the life I wanted, but I'm living it. He is adrift.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2018, 10:18:55 AM »
Well, one small correction! Logs were slow to update - they've been texting since 9 a.m. But everything else I said doesn't change - I am starting to pity him. She seems to be all he has. And he barely has her.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2018, 10:08:48 PM »
Aaaaand Crazy is looking at engagement rings again! Now I know why it's called an MLC Roller Coaster Ride.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 08:35:02 PM »
Update:

So I'm home again. He's nice, he's cordial, he's quite sweet, and physically affectionate--and he seems to truly enjoy it.

However, he continues to maintain that he has no girlfriend. When he texts her, he tells me (without me asking) that he's talking to someone else.

I need help. Is he cake eating or is there more to it?

I am honestly beginning to worry that this man is trying to pull something behind my back. I don't know what it is. If I was a betting woman, I'd say that his goal right now is to keep me funneling all the money toward the credit card debt. That's all he seems to talk about and he doesn't want me to get a place of my own. He'd rather I live with my in-laws. He expects the debt to be paid down to nothing so that he can move in with her as soon as he comes back.

Granted, I've anticipated this, and there are A LOT of things that he doesn't know yet (going to the lawyer was the best thing I've ever done!).

However, I'd like an opinion. Am I paranoid? Is this a man who simply doesn't know what he wants or is this a man who is trying to pull one over on me?

Online Treasur

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2018, 10:56:13 PM »
Perhaps both, Diana?
When they keep returning to an issue like a dog with an old bone, it's a clue that it's on their mind (or what passes for a mind LOL), but they cycle. So quite possible that both magically disappearing debt AND no clue what he wants are both true. Your plans and choices are about protecting yourself regardless as I think you are planning to do.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Whyus

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2018, 11:48:26 PM »
I dont think that your being paranoid at all Diana... you have ever right to be suspicious.
He is cake eating big time and you are serving it to him on a silver plate. OK, you like sleeping with your H, I totally get it. Thats all good and perfectly natural but by sleeping with him your actually sleeping with his GF and HER BF and whoever else those rodents are sleeping with.
You are Aware of this but a Little reminder shouldnt hurt.

Look after yourself, your sounding good just dont make him "too comfortable". Hes getting the best of both worlds, its working out perfectly for him. Why should he stop? He has a good Thing going.

Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 44
W: 44
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28. Trainings partner. Still together
2 Sons - 18 & 19
2 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Filed
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0
T10. http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9547.0

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2018, 12:54:02 AM »
And that, my dear ladies and gentlemen, is what's keeping me from sleeping tonight.

Perhaps both, Diana?
When they keep returning to an issue like a dog with an old bone, it's a clue that it's on their mind (or what passes for a mind LOL), but they cycle. So quite possible that both magically disappearing debt AND no clue what he wants are both true. Your plans and choices are about protecting yourself regardless as I think you are planning to do.
I understand why he would be dwelling over $45,000 of debt. I do. That is not confusing in the least. However, his insistence that I basically manage his money like a housekeeper is beginning to worry me in light of all the facts. Let's take a look at those, shall we?

How he acts:
1. He texts and calls her non-stop.
2. He is looking at wedding rings (albeit cheap ones).
3. He feels the need to tell me which one of his friends he's texting when he's texting her.
4. He sneaks around to call her when I am here.
5. He created another Facebook account and she seems to be the only person he added.
6. He tells me that he's planning to live with his co-worker when he comes back except that he really doesn't like the guy all that much.
7. When I refer to her as his girlfriend, he looks me in the eyes and tells me that he does not have a girlfriend--they are not a couple, according to him.

What he wants:
1. Me to live at my sister-in-law's while she's out driving her truck--this essentially means that I will be condemned to singlehood for 9 months or more
2. Me to use all the money that he makes to pay down the debt in excess of the scheduled payments (Excuse me buddy? I'm your wife and I have the right to use that money to pay for what I need.)
3. Me to not come to see him when he returns from deployment.
4. Me to expect nothing of him after he comes back from deployment--the way he talks, he believes that he will have no financial obligations towards me after we file for divorce. Actually, he doesn't think that he'll even need to show up to the court hearing--he expects me to get all of this done for him. No, no, no! I'll file, but his a$$ is going to be doing his share of the legwork.

When you put these two sets of facts together, it doesn't look so good, does it? I would have felt safer if he told me she is the love of his life the minute I got home.

Yes, I can attest that he texts her a lot less when I am home. Last night he was texting her non-stop into the wee hours of the morning. He's in a different bedroom and could be doing same thing tonight, but he's not. A part of me would like to think that when I was gone he was anxious, needy, and lonely... and that may well be true, but it is too little to quiet the suspicious and scared voices in my head.

I dont think that your being paranoid at all Diana... you have ever right to be suspicious.
Yes, I do. Also, it is never a good sign when I cannot sleep. I don't believe in premonitions, but my fight or flight instincts have always been spot-on. Same thing was happening to me physiologically for days before I figured out that I need to block his credit cards. I slept like a baby after I did that.

While I was staying with my in-laws these past 2 days, I slept great. Now, I can't sleep a wink.

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He is cake eating big time and you are serving it to him on a silver plate.
Yes, I am. However, he has no intention of prolonging this situation and he seems dead-set on divorce when he gets back.

So, I'm not sure how much of that is cake-eating on his part. If I saw more uncertainty in him, I'd feel better.

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OK, you like sleeping with your H, I totally get it. Thats all good and perfectly natural but by sleeping with him your actually sleeping with his GF and HER BF and whoever else those rodents are sleeping with.
You are Aware of this but a Little reminder shouldnt hurt.
Oh, I am aware. However, he's been STD tested recently because he is due for deployment. After he leaves, I will go and get myself checked out at my doctor's just to be on the safe side.

Love the "rodents" comment, by the way.

But based on the number of texts/calls they exchange, does the boyfriend even exist? I keep a healthy dose of skepticism. If he does exists, then my husband truly believes that she is not sleeping with this boyfriend (yes, he is a moron). If he doesn't exist, at least a causal one will materialize while my husband is deployed. This girl does not have a single picture of a guy - any guy - on her Facebook. Her relationship status and any other information are unfilled. As far as the world knows, she is a blank slate. Even if she decided that she wants my husband, until he returns she'll be seeing as many people as she wants. "Rodent" is exactly what she is.

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Look after yourself, your sounding good just dont make him "too comfortable". Hes getting the best of both worlds, its working out perfectly for him. Why should he stop? He has a good Thing going.
Whyus, nothing is working out for him, actually.

Look at what I got out of him:
1. The credit card debt has been consolidated with a loan in his name
2. He agreed to give up the lease
3. He provided me with all the paperwork I need
4. Tomorrow or the day after I will get him to give me the access to his financial statements--insurance, survivor benefits, pay stubs, etc.
5. He has left me in charge of all his income and has asked me to put him on a bi-weekly allowance
6. He has made no attempt to go see a lawyer and expects me to file in the jurisdiction where I was going to file anyway

He is in for one or two rude awakenings before he goes and a couple more after he comes back.

In the end, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Tuesday evening he and I are going out to a brewery together. He's been so excited that he had been checking out their weekly selection on his phone shortly before I got back. I hate that brewery because they mostly have IPAs, but I promised him an unlimited tab--as much booze as he wants. I will be the sober one again, so, we'll see how much he'll slip up. Even if he does not, I expect to have some use for what comes out of this evening.


I'm pretty certain that no matter what he's attempting, it's not going to interfere with anything I want because I am still doing everything as planned and getting out of him everything that I want... Maybe the anxiety I am feeling is coming from the fact that I still love him and the idea that he wants to use me and manipulate me on top of cheating on me is more than unsettling. Maybe it's the uneasiness of how simple it is for him to look me in the eyes and lie. Every time I think "avert your gaze, don't make me despise you more than I already do," but those cold glassy eyes are fixed on mine...

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2018, 07:48:51 AM »
Diana reading your last few posts, there is so much going on with you two, it's hard to hit on everything.  But I am reading it all.   :)

One thing I just want to say is it seems you two talk a lot about this ow and your relationship.  I know it's hard not to but I think both should be stopped, in my opinion.

I would make no reference to her at all.  I wouldn't want to hear anything about her, whether she's a friend or gf.  It just makes her important and gives her power she doesn't deserve.  If he brings her up in any way just tell him you don't care to hear about her, she is not important to you.
Maybe even stop following what he is looking at or who he is calling.
I mean you already know he texts her and that he is looking at rings, so there really isn't anything new there.
Maybe just take our focus off him as much as you can.  Again I know it's hard.  I couldn't do it for the longest time.

About the debt.  You never know what he is thinking.  I would just concentrate on YOU getting out of debt so you don't need to deal with that in the future.  If it benefits him, I guess it just benefits him.
It's so unfair because he caused the debt in the first place, but not much you can do about it now but pay it off, you already blocked him from using them.
Hopefully he doesn't try to open another one, huh?

I also agree, you use what ever money you need.

With cake eating is, he can only do that if you allow him to, Diana.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2018, 08:30:35 AM »
Diana reading your last few posts, there is so much going on with you two, it's hard to hit on everything.  But I am reading it all.   :)
Thanks! It's a soap opera, I know. Problem is that I have no idea what the hell is going on between the two of us. Any ideas?

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One thing I just want to say is it seems you two talk a lot about this ow and your relationship.  I know it's hard not to but I think both should be stopped, in my opinion.
You are right. I am going to do that.

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I mean you already know he texts her and that he is looking at rings, so there really isn't anything new there.
Maybe just take our focus off him as much as you can.  Again I know it's hard.  I couldn't do it for the longest time.
No, there isn't. You are right, of course. But while I will follow your advice and stop talking about her, I do need to keep following what he does. Like I said, it keeps me from believing him and it keeps me from going soft.

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About the debt.  You never know what he is thinking.  I would just concentrate on YOU getting out of debt so you don't need to deal with that in the future.  If it benefits him, I guess it just benefits him.
It's so unfair because he caused the debt in the first place, but not much you can do about it now but pay it off, you already blocked him from using them.

So... here's the thing about the debt--I don't care about paying it off. I will not keep this debt in divorce--it will all go to him. Seriously.

See, he spent almost $300 to get his Barracks Wh*re a plane ticket. I spent $150 to go see a very well respected divorce attorney.  ;D

What he's thinking will determine whether I not I make more than the minimum payments on the consolidated loan... although, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I shouldn't be making more than minimum payments regardless of what his motives are.

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Hopefully he doesn't try to open another one, huh?
Oh, hon! I'm freezing his credit before his a$$ ever gets to the airport! I will write the login and password to the three credit agencies in a little notebook and leave it in the storage where I will leave his stuff. By the time he gets to those things, I would have filed for divorce and any debt incurred after that point is separate debt.

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I also agree, you use what ever money you need.
I intend to. I'm getting a place to live and paying for my bar prep class.

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With cake eating is, he can only do that if you allow him to, Diana.
I kind of have to allow it until the evening of his departure, unfortunately.

But I guess my question is whether you think it's cake eating in the first place.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2018, 08:39:37 AM »
Your situation is so different (mine was too).  In a "normal" cake eating situation they would be seeing the ow and you, but he really isn't.
He only texts her.
Is that truly cake eating?  I suppose it is because he's hanging on to both of you.  He's not letting her go, but still being around you.

In a normal cake eating situation you can say, as long as you are seeing this ow I will have nothing to do with you.
So do you now say, as long as you are in contact with her, I will have nothing to do with you, or won't be your friend?  I suppose so, but you don't have much time before he leaves so does it matter at this point?  IDK

If you really think in a D you would not be responsible for the debt, then just pay the minimum, but check with a lawyer first.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 08:43:51 AM by Thunder »
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2018, 08:49:01 AM »
Oh I'm sorry you said it would be joined debt.

Well still why pay his half off?  Let him pay it.

The only trouble I see with this is, IF he doesn't pay his half they can still come after you for the debt because it's a joint credit card, and they don't care where they get the money from.  Their ruthless.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2018, 11:28:32 AM »
Your situation is so different (mine was too).  In a "normal" cake eating situation they would be seeing the ow and you, but he really isn't.
He only texts her.
Is that truly cake eating?  I suppose it is because he's hanging on to both of you.  He's not letting her go, but still being around you.
And here is the problem, isn't it? This morning, he got upset with me because I called OW his girlfriend. He told me that I was being a b!tch because in doing that I was, apparently, gloating that he had no one. I hugged him and apologized because it is not how I meant it.  ::)

Then we went to the gym and worked out. He lifted with me and chatted. His phone stayed in the locker. The reason I stopped lifting with him around the divorce bomb is because he was always on that stupid phone in between sets. This time around he even called me an "athletic lawyer barbie."  ::)

We went grocery shopping and he chatted with me all through the trip. He went out of his way to buy only those things that I can digest (I react poorly to xantham gum, so, shopping for anything that's not fresh produce is a chore). He wants my attention. I don't know how else to say this--it's kind of obvious. But at the same time he's discussing plans about how we divide up the stuff and never see each other again. Um... $hit-for-brains, if you never see me again, then this companionship is done. DUH!

And yet there is no normal cake-eating behavior here. It's... "cake eating light"?

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In a normal cake eating situation you can say, as long as you are seeing this ow I will have nothing to do with you.
So do you now say, as long as you are in contact with her, I will have nothing to do with you, or won't be your friend?  I suppose so, but you don't have much time before he leaves so does it matter at this point?  IDK
See, I would, except that I have nothing to gain by doing that. He will be gone 9 months. His only contact with her is phone or text. They don't even care enough to Skype and actually see each other. So... why not give him as many nice memories with me as I can while getting him to do everything that I need him to do?

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If you really think in a D you would not be responsible for the debt, then just pay the minimum, but check with a lawyer first.
So, the way the debt works, is it will be split 50/50... and there is substantial debt that he's not even thinking about because he doesn't see it as "joint." Let's say that if I pay down enough of the consolidated credit card loan, he will get to keep that puppy and still owe me for the difference between the two loans. I just have no incentive to pay more than I absolutely have to.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2018, 11:39:37 AM »
Diana, why did you bring up his ow?  Try to pretend she doesn't exist.

You know when he talks about dividing things up and never see each other again, just agree with him.
"Ok, we'll have to do that."  Then just drop it.  Don't say another word.  Talk about something positive, change the subject.

The more you talk about it, it's going to become real to him.  You know..planting seeds.   ::)
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2018, 11:56:27 AM »
Diana, why did you bring up his ow?  Try to pretend she doesn't exist.
Well, that was earlier in the morning before I read your reply. I've been in and out all day. Heading out again... to talk to a military lawyer this time  ;D

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You know when he talks about dividing things up and never see each other again, just agree with him.
"Ok, we'll have to do that."  Then just drop it.  Don't say another word.  Talk about something positive, change the subject.

The more you talk about it, it's going to become real to him.  You know..planting seeds.   ::)
Actually, that's exactly what I've been doing. I also told him that a lot of the details will have to be ironed out later and that my offer still stands: I will help him find somewhere to live if he agrees to go see a shrink. He's joking around about it for now, but that offer may become more attractive to him as the time goes on.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2018, 12:09:52 PM »
Oh, I get it.

Well, good luck at the lawyers.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Anjae

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2018, 07:52:33 PM »
Why bring up OW and say she is his girlfriend? She is OW, not a gilfriend.

What is going on between the two of you is that you are both behaving like silly kis. He is having a crisis, so, that is to be expected. But what is your excuse? You are making him jealous on purpose, you toy with him, etc.

Why? He is about to leave to Syria. He may, or may not return alive. He may return, but with mental and/or physical damage.

I don't recall any other LBS so bend up on money as you are. And so worried to make sure to get another life insurance on their spouse. And very few engaje their MLCer and toy with him/her the way you do. 

You're all over the place, playing games, you don't understand MLC (or a life/identity crisis) and rather than read and learn about it, you do silly, absurd things.

Like thinking saying you help him find a place when he returns you will help him find a place if he goes see a shrink. That is not how things work with a person in crisis.

You are one of the few LBS who does not have to worry about her MLCer for a few months. So, why such behaviour, why such rush, why don't allow things to be smooth, be calm, be quiet until he leaves?

If he is cake eating, so are you. You are using a friend to pretend that you have men interested in you. That is a petty, high-school game.

Maybe the problem is that you are 28 and quite immature. Maybe you like to play those games. Maybe you like to mess up even more an already messed up man that has lives depending on him.

I don't understand you nor can I see what all your fuss is about. Your husband is a teddy bear MLCer compared with most of our MLCers. He will be away, leaving you plenty of time to do what you think you may need to do. And to think.

Cut the drama, Diana. You aren't helping him or yourself. You are just creating more mess and more drama. Certainly you can calm down and tone down for what, more 10 or 13 days?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2018, 08:57:04 PM »
Why bring up OW and say she is his girlfriend? She is OW, not a gilfriend.

What is going on between the two of you is that you are both behaving like silly kis. He is having a crisis, so, that is to be expected. But what is your excuse? You are making him jealous on purpose, you toy with him, etc.

Why? He is about to leave to Syria. He may, or may not return alive. He may return, but with mental and/or physical damage.

I don't recall any other LBS so bend up on money as you are. And so worried to make sure to get another life insurance on their spouse. And very few engaje their MLCer and toy with him/her the way you do. 

You're all over the place, playing games, you don't understand MLC (or a life/identity crisis) and rather than read and learn about it, you do silly, absurd things.

Like thinking saying you help him find a place when he returns you will help him find a place if he goes see a shrink. That is not how things work with a person in crisis.

You are one of the few LBS who does not have to worry about her MLCer for a few months. So, why such behaviour, why such rush, why don't allow things to be smooth, be calm, be quiet until he leaves?

If he is cake eating, so are you. You are using a friend to pretend that you have men interested in you. That is a petty, high-school game.

Maybe the problem is that you are 28 and quite immature. Maybe you like to play those games. Maybe you like to mess up even more an already messed up man that has lives depending on him.

I don't understand you nor can I see what all your fuss is about. Your husband is a teddy bear MLCer compared with most of our MLCers. He will be away, leaving you plenty of time to do what you think you may need to do. And to think.

Cut the drama, Diana. You aren't helping him or yourself. You are just creating more mess and more drama. Certainly you can calm down and tone down for what, more 10 or 13 days?
You know very little about me. And you have no right to talk to me that way. I appreciate your input. I do.

But I live with a man who has a mistress, who has the ability to absolutely financially ruin us both, and who has caused me more than enough pain and anguish for me to think that, yes, after all I went through I'd hate to have all his survivor benefits go to some chick who has never mopped his vomit off the floor or held him while he cried hysterically for 5 hours straight.

He lies to me. Daily.

When he tells me the truth, it is horrifying. Today I learned that he thinks he is an alcoholic and that when I used to drive home on Sundays, he'd go out and get booze so that he could get drunk.

Today he drank 9 beers, 3 of the expired but he drank those anyway, and God only knows how much vodka. And you know what? He's barely drunk. I am scared to think about how much he has been drinking. Today he threw me onto the bed, pushed me, and threatened to break my jaw.

And he also promised me that he would talk to me tomorrow about going to therapy.

I have nowhere to go and no one to turn to. I left my whole family 7 years ago to be with him. I have not spoken to my parents since.

So you know what? The end game is to get him help. And if I can't do that then to at least make sure that I will be okay because if I am not, then there are 2 very old people on the other side of the world who will starve if I don't send them money. And I happen to love them.



I guess what I am saying is go f&ck yourself.

Offline RainbowGal

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2018, 10:07:02 PM »
Today he threw me onto the bed, pushed me, and threatened to break my jaw

I don't know your whole story but this is already so over the line I need go no further.

 MLC or no MLC.You have more years ahead of you then most of us here.

 Protect yourself legally and physically ASAP.Get away from this guy.

“One's dignity may be assaulted, vandalized and cruelly mocked, but it can never be taken away unless it is surrendered.”-Michael J.Fox

.

 


« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 10:08:05 PM by RainbowGal »
Me-52
Wife-56
T-28 years
M-November,2010
3-furry four-legged loving canine kids
EA begins-Jan,2011
Mini BD-April 1,2011
EA goes PA-Sept 2011
ILYBNILWY speech-Oct 2011
PA with alienator 20 years younger confirmed-early Nov 2011
Moved in and out 8 times since PA BD date

Reconnected November 7,2012
Reconciled,2013

 And my destination makes it worth the while
Pushing through the darkness still another mile
I believe in angels
Something good in everything I see
I believe in angels
When I know the time is right for me
I'll cross the stream - I have a dream
-ABBA

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2018, 10:57:33 PM »
I wish I had never read or replied to that post.

I went downstairs and told him to get out. We got in an argument. He went upstairs. I took the phone from his hand. He tackled me to the floor and choked me wrestling-style. He finally let me go. I got up and yelled at him. Then I slapped him and took the phone again. At this point, he threw me onto his bed and began choking me and punched me in the ear.

He told me that he is suicidal, that I have never been there for him, that he just wants to go to Syria, and that he has no one.

At this point, he may go sleep in his office.

The divorce is imminent.

He promised to go to therapy.

Well, there's something.

Online Insecurity_08

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2018, 12:30:44 AM »
I wish I had never read or replied to that post.

I went downstairs and told him to get out. We got in an argument. He went upstairs. I took the phone from his hand. He tackled me to the floor and choked me wrestling-style. He finally let me go. I got up and yelled at him. Then I slapped him and took the phone again. At this point, he threw me onto his bed and began choking me and punched me in the ear.

He told me that he is suicidal, that I have never been there for him, that he just wants to go to Syria, and that he has no one.

At this point, he may go sleep in his office.

The divorce is imminent.

He promised to go to therapy.

Well, there's something.

I'm sorry this had to happen to you. My dad was an alcoholic. Actually became an alcoholic around the year he turned 40. Since I now know a lot about MLC. I think my dad had an MLC too. Unfortunately he could never quit the alcohol. And 17 years later (December 2017) he passed away due to over abuse.

Anyway my dad never got physical with us or with or mom. There was only a lot of emotional abuse. Until the day mom said she was going to get a divorce. She didn't want to, still clearly loved him. But the alcohol problem was just getting to much. That day he also tried to choke her. He didn't remember one bit of it the day after. My mom was lucky she hit a chair and he had to let go then. Otherwise who knows what would have happened.

The day my dad passed away, my mom died a little bit inside too. Even though they were divorced for a few years already, she never stopped loving him. Never had a new life partner either and is not planning to.

I'm a lot like my mom, that's why I sometimes fear this thing with h will linger on for a long time. And also my h isn't suicidal right now, but considering his meltdowns a few months ago. I fear he will get at that point someday. I won't be there for him anymore. And nobody will be. And then I get similar news as my mom did and die a little bit inside.

Anyway I know a little bit of how this must feel to you. All the conflicting emotions. Knowing he is not that man but turned into that man. Having to divorce him, even though in your heart you don't want to. I wish you lots of strength!

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2018, 03:36:12 AM »
I wish I had never read or replied to that post.

I went downstairs and told him to get out. We got in an argument. He went upstairs. I took the phone from his hand. He tackled me to the floor and choked me wrestling-style. He finally let me go. I got up and yelled at him. Then I slapped him and took the phone again. At this point, he threw me onto his bed and began choking me and punched me in the ear.

He told me that he is suicidal, that I have never been there for him, that he just wants to go to Syria, and that he has no one.

At this point, he may go sleep in his office.

The divorce is imminent.

He promised to go to therapy.

Well, there's something.

I'm sorry this had to happen to you. My dad was an alcoholic. Actually became an alcoholic around the year he turned 40. Since I now know a lot about MLC. I think my dad had an MLC too. Unfortunately he could never quit the alcohol. And 17 years later (December 2017) he passed away due to over abuse.

Anyway my dad never got physical with us or with or mom. There was only a lot of emotional abuse. Until the day mom said she was going to get a divorce. She didn't want to, still clearly loved him. But the alcohol problem was just getting to much. That day he also tried to choke her. He didn't remember one bit of it the day after. My mom was lucky she hit a chair and he had to let go then. Otherwise who knows what would have happened.

The day my dad passed away, my mom died a little bit inside too. Even though they were divorced for a few years already, she never stopped loving him. Never had a new life partner either and is not planning to.

I'm a lot like my mom, that's why I sometimes fear this thing with h will linger on for a long time. And also my h isn't suicidal right now, but considering his meltdowns a few months ago. I fear he will get at that point someday. I won't be there for him anymore. And nobody will be. And then I get similar news as my mom did and die a little bit inside.

Anyway I know a little bit of how this must feel to you. All the conflicting emotions. Knowing he is not that man but turned into that man. Having to divorce him, even though in your heart you don't want to. I wish you lots of strength!
Well, according to him, I was the catalyst for what happened. I guess this is a nice way of saying that I asked for it?

Online Insecurity_08

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2018, 04:08:16 AM »
Well, according to him, I was the catalyst for what happened. I guess this is a nice way of saying that I asked for it?

You are not, but I'm sure you are well aware of that!

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2018, 05:55:02 AM »
Well, according to him, I was the catalyst for what happened. I guess this is a nice way of saying that I asked for it?

You are not, but I'm sure you are well aware of that!
I am. I am very aware of it. I am also aware of the fact that now my chances of dying have gone up exponentially.

http://www.thehotline.org/2016/03/15/the-dangers-of-strangulation/

I contacted my friend and gave him my full address here along with my information and his. If he doesn't hear from me every day, he will contact authorities.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2018, 10:01:33 AM »
Well, here's what happened this morning:

Last night after he went to bed, he went straight to texting her and he texted her first thing in the morning. On his way out to formation, he, like I said, told me that I was "the catalyst" for this.

However, he came home a lot more remorseful. He said he needed a hug and almost started crying.

He agreed to see a shrink of my choice when he comes back, but he's hoping for a relationship with the girl he's been texting. She knows some of what has been going on with him. This is why she is not getting into a relationship with him. Yet. He didn't tell her about last night (of course). He only told he that he will seek therapy. She knows about some of his anger issues and to some extent she knows that he is suicidal. He said he told me more than her: namely that he hopes to die in a firefight on deployment.

At the same time, he thinks that deployment will help him get the anger "out." Basically, he believes that deployment will cure him of his rage. But he agreed to therapy nonetheless. Even drugs.

He also promised to give up drinking. Last night he had vodka on top of 9 beers. He believes that not drinking will keep him from getting violent... and that could be. But a memory came back to me this morning. At the end of 2016, he dislocated a guy's jaw because the guy came up behind him and scared him on purpose. This guy was a co-worker. They were both sober. The leadership swept the incident under the rug.

I believe him in that I believe that he is sincere for now. I recorded my conversation with him. If I have to get him help through commitment hearing then so be it.

He apologized to me. He asked that we go take a nap together. I told him that I couldn't sleep... so, I sat and stroked his head. I spent two hours sitting next to him and stroking his head while he slept.

He said he's not sure what he wants anymore, but he thinks he needs a clean start with her. She's easy to talk to, apparently. But she still has her boyfriend and so, as far as he believes, he has no one. And what am I to do? A stupid thing, apparently, where I go out of my way to make sure that this man is getting help.

After what he did, there is no way for him to go talk to a military shrink. Last night he committed a felony. The military will not care whether I choose to press charges - they will do it for me and the military shrinks are not bound by the same confidentiality agreements. Funny... a year ago I wrote a research paper on this very subject for a domestic violence law class. Basically, right now I am looking for private insurance for him.

He told me that I was kind to him and that he doesn't deserve kindness from anyone. Maybe he's right. I think I'm just an idiot.



My throat is swelling and I've become hoarse. Bruising on my chest, arm, and neck is minimal... So, I guess I am still going to trivia night like nothing happened.

Offline needinput

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2018, 10:14:01 AM »
"He apologized to me. He asked that we go take a nap together. I told him that I couldn't sleep... so, I sat and stroked his head. I spent two hours sitting next to him and stroking his head while he slept."

Diana, none of this should be happening. You need to put boundaries in place now. He thinks he can punch you and then nap with you after apologizing?

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2018, 11:04:21 AM »
"My throat is swelling and I've become hoarse. Bruising on my chest, arm, and neck is minimal"

Diana, once they have gone that far, they will go further and you may be lucky he leaves you alive next time...and there will be a next time.
He got NO consequences for what he did.

Hon, you need to get as far away from him ASAP.
I'm sorry,  He is a loose cannon, Diana.

I thought this when you talked about the rough sex.  That's anger, not passion.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Phoenix

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2018, 11:43:14 AM »
Diana,
This is not about MLC. It is about violence, addiction and mental health issues. You need to remove yourself from harm's way right now. The statistics on these situations are grim and even more so for men in the military due to other risk and stress factors. I know you know this.

If you can't work within the military structure, contact a domestic violence organization. I understand you are concerned about the potential career fallout for your H if he seeks assistance, but that can't be the priority. Not only should you not be around him under these circumstances, but he is a risk to himself and also a potential risk to those depending on him when he's deployed.

You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, but you can save yourself. Your H clearly needs significant professional assistance but you have been a target of his violence and are therefore not the right person to be orchestrating help for him, confronting him, or telling him what he's doing wrong or needs to change. It can backfire on you and result in harm to you, him, or both. Murder-suicide is all too common in situations like this and military personnel and families are at particular risk.

You can rationalize or you can take action. I hope you choose the latter.

Sending you strength,
Phoenix
Married 24 years
Together 30
D (young adult now)
BD 2010
He is a vanisher
Divorced 2016

Offline strawberry

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2018, 01:03:48 PM »
Aside from what he did to you, which you should absolutely not let slide, regardless of how much you love him.....as a veteran, I am appalled that you would let him deploy knowing his mental state.  Honestly, I don’t care that he puts his own life in danger, but he (and you by not reporting to his command) are putting other service member’s lives in danger.  That is unacceptable, especially from someone planing to become a military officer herself.  You need to not only consider your own wellbeing, but that of the men and women who will be in danger by serving next to someone that is clearly unstable.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2018, 01:48:01 PM »
Diana,

I hope you take all this advice from a caring perspective.  Not as attacking you, not at all.

We are all here for you and your well being.
Sometimes we are too close to see things what observers can see.

Just read your last 2 posts and ask yourself, what advice would you give someone in your position?
If this was some other woman's thread.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2018, 03:03:01 PM »
Update:

After he woke up, I asked him to please, tell that girl everything. Maybe I'm stupid. To me, she's an ugly little wh*re, and yet the idea that in 9 months she may well leave her job and her home town and come be with this man is horrifying. I told him that she deserves to know what is going on with him and that she deserves to make an informed decision. (I didn't say this part, but for the love of God, she's only 21 and she is not married to him - she has nothing with him.)

He told me flat out that she will leave him if she finds out. He said that I hate him and that I want him to be alone and hurting all his life. He said that he and I have history and that I push his buttons - this would have never happened with someone else or if he was sober (Yeah, okay! Sure!  ::)). He said that he already decided that he would go get help and that I have no right to jeopardize his chance at happiness.

It's all about him. He doesn't even begin to understand that this is not about him anymore.

He again became aggressive and told me that I need to leave because no matter what the law says this is not my home because I have friends and family to stay with (his family, mind you) and he has no one. I looked at him and said "You have your OW. Call her. Call one of your friends. Tell them that you need money for a hotel." He said he couldn't do that and he doesn't think that anyone would help. And I asked "Oh, so you expect me to impose on the people in my life but you cannot impose on yours? Just because I have somewhere to go does not mean that this is any less of my home." He attempted to say that he will go sleep in his office. I told him to go. He wasn't going to, of course. Instead he began whining that he likes spending time with me except when I'm like this.

I sat across from him, took his hands into mine and told him "Romeo, the way I see things, this girl is talking to you for one of two reasons. Either she thinks you're going to do something crazy like hurt yourself or someone else if she stops or she truly believes that she can fix you only if the two of you can be together. If it's the later, she needs to know exactly what she's getting into." He looked shocked. (Did it finally sink through? Doubt that the realization will linger for long.) Then he began telling me that she has a boyfriend and that it's looking more and more like he will be all alone when he comes back and will probably stay with his co-worker. (Is that true? Who knows!) I told him that it is out of the question for two reasons: (1) his co-worker doesn't have even a hint of how crazy he is and (2) his co-worker drinks and Romeo cannot be anywhere near alcohol. He said that he was thinking that too and that a studio would probably be better. I agreed and also suggested a furnished hotel, which he though was a good idea.

Then we hugged and he made me iced water for my sore throat. (Aww! How considerate!) He made us lunch and made sure I ate. Since I had nothing for breakfast, I finished the whole meal for a change. He then wanted me to go and watch TV with him and even made sure I had iced water in my water bottle. (What a guy!)

All I had to do was tell him that he will be taken care of and promise that I will not contact that girl to tell her what is really going on.

I asked if he considered medical discharge when he got back, especially if he comes back even worse. He told me that he thought about it and is beginning to lean towards it more and more.


Lessons Learned:

1. She is an object and a possession to him. He doesn't love her - he needs her and he is obsessed with her. He will hurt anyone who threatens or even hints at taking her away from him... So, what is going to happen if she comes to stay with him and then decides that she's not up for this crazy? That "history" that we have together, the history he blames for his outbursts towards me, I strongly suspect that this history kept me alive last night. She doesn't have the same benefit.

2. He is terrified of being alone. Telling him that he is going to be okay and that someone will take care of him makes him less anxious and easier to handle. That is my line from now on.

3. He went through the entirety of the abuse cycle in the span of about 12 hours. He is spiraling and fast.

Replies:

Diana, none of this should be happening. You need to put boundaries in place now. He thinks he can punch you and then nap with you after apologizing?
Actually, when he is told that someone is there for him, he's calmest and safest to be around. I saw that first hand today.

Diana, once they have gone that far, they will go further and you may be lucky he leaves you alive next time...and there will be a next time.
He got NO consequences for what he did.

Hon, you need to get as far away from him ASAP.
I'm sorry,  He is a loose cannon, Diana.

I thought this when you talked about the rough sex.  That's anger, not passion.
You know, I thought the same thing about sex with him for a long time now--long before the divorce bomb. I just didn't want to say anything when I was typing it here the first time around.

I know he is dangerous, Thunder. I also know that I'm not going to get a second time if he comes after me. I need to survive this for 10 more days... And the last 24 hours have been very educational.

Diana,
This is not about MLC. It is about violence, addiction and mental health issues. You need to remove yourself from harm's way right now. The statistics on these situations are grim and even more so for men in the military due to other risk and stress factors. I know you know this.

If you can't work within the military structure, contact a domestic violence organization. I understand you are concerned about the potential career fallout for your H if he seeks assistance, but that can't be the priority. Not only should you not be around him under these circumstances, but he is a risk to himself and also a potential risk to those depending on him when he's deployed.
And that is another thing I'm grappling with right now. What am I to do about him?

On one hand, I know full well how "good" the military is about sweeping these things under the rug or not pursuing the issue with sufficient diligence. I personally know a wife-beater who drowned the family dog in the bathtub and who still shares the custody of his son with his ex-wife. If I report him, how safe will I be?

On the other hand, the troops. If he had been combat arms, I would have reported. He is not, however. His role is a logistical one. He will never give battle orders and the only way he ends up at the front line is if he volunteers to go with one of the deliveries, in which case any IUD or ambush they run into would not have been on his orders (he determines "how much," not "where"). Now, do I expect that he will punch out a colleague at some point? Oh yeah!

Honestly, I expect a phone call of some kind about him. But the fact that he is not combat arms makes me reluctant to report.

Quote
You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, but you can save yourself. Your H clearly needs significant professional assistance but you have been a target of his violence and are therefore not the right person to be orchestrating help for him, confronting him, or telling him what he's doing wrong or needs to change. It can backfire on you and result in harm to you, him, or both. Murder-suicide is all too common in situations like this and military personnel and families are at particular risk.

You can rationalize or you can take action. I hope you choose the latter.

Sending you strength,
Phoenix
Thank you. You know, my girlfriend whom I just got off the phone with told me that I have been thinking about everyone but myself. In some ways, I think she may be right. I will be careful... But if I can get him help - I will.

I did not do this to him, but he joined for us. We were penniless students when we got married. He joined the service to take care of us and at the time I could do little on my end to contribute. Yes, I worked, but the jobs I had barely paid above minimum wage. I don't know how much I owe him, but I do owe him something.


Aside from what he did to you, which you should absolutely not let slide, regardless of how much you love him.....as a veteran, I am appalled that you would let him deploy knowing his mental state.  Honestly, I don’t care that he puts his own life in danger, but he (and you by not reporting to his command) are putting other service member’s lives in danger.  That is unacceptable, especially from someone planing to become a military officer herself.  You need to not only consider your own wellbeing, but that of the men and women who will be in danger by serving next to someone that is clearly unstable.
And this is why this is so hard. I'm still on the fence about whom I should tell and when. Him being in a support as opposed to combat role is one factor that I am definitely considering. Him getting charged with a felony if I tell his command is another factor. If I had the choice of pressing or not pressing charges, I would have felt differently.

If you have other thoughts on the matter, please, tell me. I feel like I have hit a wall.

I also have no idea when to tell his mother. She called me today because he had texted her not to come this weekend. I told her that she shouldn't come and that if she wants to do anything for him she should be looking at private health insurance with psychiatric coverage. I didn't tell her much of anything else, but I think she has a picture of what's going on. I promised to tell her everything after I come back from Field Training... I just can't deal with breaking her heart before I go... She told me to call her if I need her and she will come and get me and that they, she and my step-father-in-law, love me.


Diana,

I hope you take all this advice from a caring perspective.  Not as attacking you, not at all.

We are all here for you and your well being.
Sometimes we are too close to see things what observers can see.

Just read your last 2 posts and ask yourself, what advice would you give someone in your position?
If this was some other woman's thread.
With one notable exception, Thunder, this is how I have been taking it and I appreciate the advice. 

I'd be scared out of my mind for any woman in my situation... And yet remember what I told you? I made my plan knowing who and what I am.

Progress so far:

1. Made a digital copy of the Power of Attorney and hid the hard copy.
2. Obtained a loan to pay off card debt.
4. Opened a new bank account.
8. Obtained a copy of his orders to cancel the lease.
9. Got him to agree to reset the password on his my.pay site. He is doing it tomorrow.

To Do List for Tomorrow:

6. Find storage for his things.
7. Give notice that we will vacate on July 31.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2018, 03:56:15 PM »
Diana, I know time is short, but you are not listening to some of the good advise people are giving you.
Drama should be left completely alone!

You need to stop talking about his ow.  Just stop giving her the importance she does not deserve.  We and you should not care about her.  Not one bit!
Don't tell him to talk to her or explain ANYTHING to her.  Who cares what she thinks or what she knows?  If she gets hurt or is being lied to, oh well...who cares?  She is involving herself with a married man.  If she gets hurt that is on her for making stupid choices.

Why do you care if she knows the truth?

Please try really hard not to talk to him about the ow or your relationship.
Just be light and friendly before he leaves.  Put NO pressure on him at all about anything.

Talk about other things.  The weather, shows you watch, his mom and how she is doing, take some nice long walks together.
Leave anything serious alone.  Let him leave feeling good and calm.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline strawberry

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2018, 04:17:18 PM »
What you are missing here is that this goes beyond MLC, in my opinion.  Based on everything you have described, he’s losing grip on reality, depressed, and becoming violent.  If you think he isn’t a danger to he’s fellow soldiers just because he’s not a combat soldier, you are delusional.  The good soldiers that died as a result of bowe bergdahl’s actions did not die in combat actions, thei died doing an unnecessary search and rescue.  All he has to do is walk off post and innocent people will die for him.  He is not fit to serve.    The depression would be disqualifying alone.  The DV is just an additional issue. The adulatory is also a UCMJ violation.   If you truly care about him, get him help now anyway you can.  Otherwise, spend the next 10 days elsewhere and cut the drama, and hope he doesn’t get anyone killed while he’s deployed.

Offline Anjae

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2018, 04:27:59 PM »
I am sorry things took such and horrible turn, Diana.

You need to remove yourself from the situation/harms way. Mr J was physically agressive when he no longer lived in our flat. I have to end up moving back to our home town, leaving pretty much everything behind, including pets.


Aside from what he did to you, which you should absolutely not let slide, regardless of how much you love him.....as a veteran, I am appalled that you would let him deploy knowing his mental state.  Honestly, I don’t care that he puts his own life in danger, but he (and you by not reporting to his command) are putting other service member’s lives in danger.  That is unacceptable, especially from someone planing to become a military officer herself.  You need to not only consider your own wellbeing, but that of the men and women who will be in danger by serving next to someone that is clearly unstable.

I agree. Both of you have higher responsabilities, not just about yourselves, but also the military and your contry. Your husband is not fit to be deployed, regardeless of not being sent to battle/have a combat role.

It may sound harsh, Diana, but the men and women under your husband are more important than him being charged with a felony. Lifes are at stake, regardless of him being in a support role rather than on a combat one.

Your husband's assaulted you, and, in the morning, you tell him to tell that girl everything? Diana, please get your priorities straight. You are the priority, in case you have forgot. Number 2, the men and women under your husband.

3. He went through the entirety of the abuse cycle in the span of about 12 hours. He is spiraling and fast.
He is. But it may not mean much. Mr J had those cyles, it has been nearly 12 years since BD and he is still in Replay. Don't expect your husband's situation to change just because he seems to be spiraling fast.

2. He is terrified of being alone. Telling him that he is going to be okay and that someone will take care of him makes him less anxious and easier to handle. That is my line from now on.

That is his problem, not yours.



Please cut the drama. It will not help. I know some of us, myself especially, may be sounding harsh, brutal even. But we have been aroun for years, some of us have spouses who have been in MLC for many years, including MLCers that become violent towards us. Trust us, drama will not do a thing for you. Or him. Or his men and women.

Don't talk to him about OW/relationship.

And that is another thing I'm grappling with right now. What am I to do about him?

Report him to civilian and military authorities. In the case of military, both because of the violence and him not being fit to be deplyoed. He is mentally ill.

If you think he isn’t a danger to he’s fellow soldiers just because he’s not a combat soldier, you are delusional.  The good soldiers that died as a result of bowe bergdahl’s actions did not die in combat actions, thei died doing an unnecessary search and rescue.  All he has to do is walk off post and innocent people will die for him.  He is not fit to serve.    The depression would be disqualifying alone.  The DV is just an additional issue. The adulatory is also a UCMJ violation.   If you truly care about him, get him help now anyway you can.  Otherwise, spend the next 10 days elsewhere and cut the drama, and hope he doesn’t get anyone killed while he’s deployed.

All Strawberry said. That is similar to what several of us have said.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »
Diana, I know time is short, but you are not listening to some of the good advise people are giving you.
Drama should be left completely alone!
Oh... I think it has been. After I left the house to call my girlfriend and just get away from there, I remembered something he told me last night after he choked me the second time: "I should have choked you out so that you'd know what it feels like." Then I think back to him reverting back to his "you provoked me" stance. Then I think about him grinning and texting her as I was leaving the house... I cannot reach him. I cannot explain anything to him. He's a monster. Best I can do is tiptoe around him and not be there 99.9% of the time.

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You need to stop talking about his ow.  Just stop giving her the importance she does not deserve.  We and you should not care about her.  Not one bit!
Don't tell him to talk to her or explain ANYTHING to her.  Who cares what she thinks or what she knows?  If she gets hurt or is being lied to, oh well...who cares?  She is involving herself with a married man.  If she gets hurt that is on her for making stupid choices.

Why do you care if she knows the truth?
My mom married this guy after she divorced my dad. They dated for 6 months. He was kind and sweet. He'd come into town with presents for everyone and played with me. We all loved him. My mom was maybe 24 or 25 at the time and since her first husband, my father, didn't work out, she was looking for a stable older man. Well, they got married and say hello to Mr. Jekyll! Turns out that his crazy b!tch of an ex wife that his parents and friends were badmouthing around town wasn't all that crazy or a b!tch. After 7 years of marriage to that piece of garbage--the time when I had to live with my grandparents because the home life was so toxic--my mom was a different person. Most of the problems that she and I have had over the years have to do with the fact that a large portion of her marbles got spilled somewhere during those 7 years. I mean, no, my mom was never his OW, but still...

I've known other abused women. Generally, the abuse gets worse with each successive spouse. A classmate of mine found herself in the cactus bushes, after which she had to have sex with her husband at gunpoint.

I've taken Domestic Violence legal class... I know what choking means. I know how scared I should be and I know that this is something he will do with his successive partners unless he gets help... or at this point it may not matter whether or not he gets help.

So yes, I have the capacity to feel some level of care and empathy for this girl. Maybe she doesn't deserve it. I've decided that what I'm going to do is after I tell my mother-in-law everything, I will give her the young lady's contact information and let her do as she pleases.

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Please try really hard not to talk to him about the ow or your relationship.
Just be light and friendly before he leaves.  Put NO pressure on him at all about anything.

Talk about other things.  The weather, shows you watch, his mom and how she is doing, take some nice long walks together.
Leave anything serious alone.  Let him leave feeling good and calm.
There is nothing serious to discuss... and I have all the audio recordings I need should an issue arise and I require them.

You... think I should take him for a walk?  :o



Strawberry, Anjae,

I'd be lying if I told you that I know what to do here or what the right thing is. Right now I can't turn or lift my neck without pain and my vision is a little off. It could just be from dry contacts and no sleep or it could be from last night.

I know that what's best for me is for him to leave for 9 months. I will be safe, financially secure, and far, far away from him. By the time he comes back, I plan to be more than protected from him. Hell, I am going to open a PO box so that I do not have to disclose my physical address to him.

I think that it is far beyond MLC. And I do understand that the best thing for me is probably not the best thing for anyone who is deploying with him. But if I report and they don't lock him up in time or let him go too soon, should I be the one to pay that price? Because I will be and God only knows what he will do to me.

Offline Anjae

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2018, 06:03:29 PM »
I'd be lying if I told you that I know what to do here or what the right thing is. Right now I can't turn or lift my neck without pain and my vision is a little off. It could just be from dry contacts and no sleep or it could be from last night.

I understand this. I have been there, after BD, nearly 12 years ago.

Have you been seen by a doctor? If not, please go see one. You may have internal damages in the area you were attacked as well as in your brain or nerves/muscles that connect to the brain.

Are you home or with your friend? Is there somewhere where you can stay at until your husband leaves?

I think that it is far beyond MLC. And I do understand that the best thing for me is probably not the best thing for anyone who is deploying with him. But if I report and they don't lock him up in time or let him go too soon, should I be the one to pay that price? Because I will be and God only knows what he will do to me.

It may not be. Some MLCers do what your husband did. Some of us have spouses who did it and have never done it before MLC. But, it does not matter if it is MLC or beyond.


I am trying to think what you could do that would allow you to report him and be safe. Report and go elsewhere? Like Phoenix suggested, look for some organization that works with domestic violence? For example, one with a shelter for abused women?

After what you wrote, I also understand why you would like to tell OW. But, do you think she would believe you? Did your mum believe what was said about the guy she married? Wouldn't telling OW also be dangerous for you? 

You are studying to be a lawyer. Are there any colleagues or professors you can ask for advice?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2018, 10:26:20 PM »
I understand this. I have been there, after BD, nearly 12 years ago.

Have you been seen by a doctor? If not, please go see one. You may have internal damages in the area you were attacked as well as in your brain or nerves/muscles that connect to the brain.

Are you home or with your friend? Is there somewhere where you can stay at until your husband leaves?
I hope the memories fade after 12 years. I really do...

I have not been seen by a doctor. Which, again, I should know better. I know that even though I did not pass out, I could potentially die of traumatic encephalopathy within a couple of days and never see it coming. This morning I was lying to myself that it wasn't so bad... and for the first 10 hours or so it wasn't. Now it hurts to turn my neck.

I am going to go to Planned Parenthood tomorrow. It will be nice and anonymous.

I could stay elsewhere, but there'd be problems with that.

1. I do not yet have all the paperwork/access that I need from him.
2. If I come back to my in-laws early, I'll have to answer questions. I'll have a hard time fielding them as is.
3. He might get suspicious/anxious. He had been talking big about kicking me out or leaving himself, but it is very obvious that this is not what he wants.

I went out to a brewery for a pub quiz with some guys from my hiking group and had an absolute blast, but I wasn't sure what I'd be coming home to tonight. It's not as bad as I might have thought. Not great, mind you, but not violent and right now I shall take what I can get.

He seems subdued now, at least.

After his little nap in the master bedroom this morning, he decided that that's where he is sleeping again... With me. He woke up long enough to tell me "welcome back" and "did you have a good time" and went back to sleep. I believe that cray-cray is the technical term for this phenomenon.

It may not be. Some MLCers do what your husband did. Some of us have spouses who did it and have never done it before MLC. But, it does not matter if it is MLC or beyond.
Fair enough. MLC or no MLC, he never did this before, but I can certainly expect this going forward.


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I am trying to think what you could do that would allow you to report him and be safe. Report and go elsewhere? Like Phoenix suggested, look for some organization that works with domestic violence? For example, one with a shelter for abused women?
If I do that, I will not finish out this year. I am at 22 credit hours between my classes and ROTC. I may be selling my soul for this, but I think I have to buy myself this year.

Quote
After what you wrote, I also understand why you would like to tell OW. But, do you think she would believe you? Did your mum believe what was said about the guy she married? Wouldn't telling OW also be dangerous for you? 
That's the thing: my mom did not know. His ex wife was not from our town and their married life was not in our town either. Everyone knew only what his friends and family fed them. If my mom had even a hint of trouble, she would have ran the other way.

But will this girl believe me? I don't know. She blocked me on Facebook before I ever learned that she exists. She is carrying on an EA (and possibly a PA) with an emotionally-unstable married man (she may not know the full extent, but come on). This is not what you'd call a nice girl. She may measure everyone by her own yardstick. I think I'm just going to tell my mother-in-law what I am concerned about, give her the girl's phone number, and let my mother-in-law decide whether she wants to contact the girl.

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You are studying to be a lawyer. Are there any colleagues or professors you can ask for advice?
There are. My girlfriend is another law student. She thinks I should stay quiet till he leaves. I will also reach out to a retired colonel who wrote my JAG recommendation and ask him for advice on what to do about my husband and whether I should contact his leadership. That will have to be after he leaves, but I can reach these people if need be.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2018, 10:33:04 PM »
Okay, so this is random, but I just went onto my Google activity page to clear out anything I don't want him seeing popping up in his feed (like my Planned Parenthood search, for example)... and he's looking up anime porn (pornographic Japanese cartoons image search).  :o

Is this like a Tinder alternative for losers with no social graces?  ::)


I FIND SH!T ABOUT HIM THAT BLOWS MY MIND EVEN WHEN I'M NOT OUT LOOKING FOR IT! Jesus Christ!

At this point, his sh!t finds me...

Online Treasur

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2018, 12:26:19 AM »
I've been reading your posts, Diana, but stayed away from adding to what others have said.

The good news is that you are feisty and smart. The bad news is possibly that you are in danger of focusing that on things that don't serve you, and failing to see the serious wood for the trees. Please don't underestimate just how much the shock of all of this is a mindf**k in its' own right. All of us ahead of you remember how it stops even the smartest of us thinking clearly sometimes or knowing what to do, and how exhausting and confusing our own emotions are. It also sounds as if you have some tough family history of your own which will be creating your own habits and mind monkeys perhaps. And from my perspective you are still young and evolving, a lovely work in progress. Some of your anger, actions that look like 'game playing' drama as Anjae said and your responses to your H's behaviour. And every time you find a bit of solid ground, your H brings more crazy.

Your girlfriend said something like you are not prioritising yourself enough and, as an outsider, she seems to be exactly right...so it's time to use that smart head, break it down like any good legal brain does and set some firm priorities. I would suggest that these are, in order, a) your physical and mental safety, b) your financial safety, c) your own life/work/friends etc.....then a pretty big gap before d) your practical obligations with a military spouse about to be deployed, e) your emotional obligations to a mentally ill spouse in crisis and finally (and IMHO so far down the list that you're unlikely to have space/time right now)  f) your obligations to any strangers in his life who are enabling him which includes ow.

Another good thing...the universe is physically removing your H in a couple of weeks by deploying him for 9 months. And you have a new job in another location right? That is a blessing and a real gift of time to breathe, think and decide about things that you do not need to action right now. Any wise service person knows the cost of spreading your resources too thin and the importance of picking your battles.

I don't know you or the history of your marriage. I have made a ton of mistakes in my situation and failed often to prioritise wisely. But I am old enough to be your mother and if you were my daughter, I would want you to use your feisty, smart, disciplined self to put you at the top of your short-term list as your girlfriend lovingly suggested and:

- go to a doctor right now to look after yourself physically and establish an objective record of your injuries

- trust in your deepest gut that no reason is good enough to excuse someone trying to strangle you and no reason is good enough to stay in a situation where you are exposed to the risk of it happening again.

- you are not responsible for making your abuser 'feel calmer'...put simply, you should not be sharing a bed or living space with someone who has physically attacked you. Full stop. Life and mental illness are not black and white, but that is and you need to feel it and say so to your H. What he did was real and it is not ok, never ok. If he won't leave for the next few days, you need to do so.

- you have made wise choices on protecting yourself financially from what I can see, but you are being much more cavalier about your physical and emotional health. Only you know why that is...but you are smart enough to know that in the history of human endeavour, no drunk, addict, mentally ill, violent or unfaithful spouse has ever stopped because their wife has made them feel better, stroked their brow, made them jealous or sorted out their love life with an ow. You are smart; you know this...and you are not responsible for any bit of your H's behaviour, not one bit. He is a mess but he is an independent adult in all his glorious f**kedup-ness...you simply cannot fix him. Keep focused on A, B and C...keep asking yourself 'how does this choice serve ME?'...and if it doesn't, consider doing nothing.

- if/when you feel you have A, B and C appropriately covered THEN with a spare 10%, consider D onwards. I don't know if you should report his mental health and behaviour as a military spouse given his non-combat role, or report him for DV either, but I do know that you need to focus on you first. Don't waste energy thinking about divorce and anything post-deployment...you can get to that when you need to...but if you're choked to death in the next few days or beaten to a pulp or infected with an STD or have a mental breakdown, doesn't really matter does it? And I'm pretty sure that ow's feelings or relationship with anyone, including your H, is not your job. It is a fake bit of twisted control against chaos to think that it is surely?

I'm not sure if your reaction to this will be the same as your reaction to Anjae's post. I can see how tough and smart you are, and I really hope that you will bite the bullet and see that this is not ok, not normal, not ignorable and that you need your fighting energy for you first now. Let everyone else, and everything else, take a ticket and stand in line...and if they don't like it, and some won't probably including your H, f**k 'em.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:33:54 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2018, 08:33:40 AM »
I've been reading your posts, Diana, but stayed away from adding to what others have said.
Thank you.

Quote
The good news is that you are feisty and smart.
You know, when I read this my first thought was "and that is exactly what he stopped liking about me." For the last year and a half, he has made be feel bad about both, in one way or another. If I respond to him sarcastically, then I'm a "b!tch." If I tell him that I'm not really into a certain type of show, then I have a stick up my a$$ (and maybe I do, but some humor is excessively crass, some cartoons are too childish, and some satire takes it so far that it loses its point and becomes stupid--I should be allowed to express that and I happen to like standup, cartoons, and satirical productions as a general rule). If I use big words to build complex sentences, I'm, apparently, "using those SAT words."

I never told him that he was too stupid for me and I never felt that he was, but then again, maybe I didn't have to. He surrounds himself with people who are flaky, immature, unambitious, callous... He is older than them, better educated than them, has more "stuff" than them, is more established than them, and has more money than them. There is nothing necessarily wrong with any one of those things, but when they're consistently together in every person he has around him, it begs a question, no? This is a 30-year-old man whose average friend is around 23, no family, no long-term relationship, hazy long-term goals, unfinished education or education with no practical use (be it higher education or technical education), messy apartment with hand-me-down furniture, and a habit of drinking to excess. One of his buddies is in awe of the way my husband talks and always tells him how smart he is. You can't get that kind of admiration from a Sargent with a wonderful family and a glowing career ahead of him--that friendship didn't work out (but a Sargent who got out of the service to be a full-time pothead is aces in my husband's books). You also cannot get that from a fellow Lieutenant who, along with her husband, tried several times to get closer to us and have us over for dinners. You also can't get that from me--I love, I respect, and I appreciate, but I do not fawn over anyone.

Quote
The bad news is possibly that you are in danger of focusing that on things that don't serve you, and failing to see the serious wood for the trees. Please don't underestimate just how much the shock of all of this is a mindf**k in its' own right. All of us ahead of you remember how it stops even the smartest of us thinking clearly sometimes or knowing what to do, and how exhausting and confusing our own emotions are. It also sounds as if you have some tough family history of your own which will be creating your own habits and mind monkeys perhaps. And from my perspective you are still young and evolving, a lovely work in progress. Some of your anger, actions that look like 'game playing' drama as Anjae said and your responses to your H's behaviour. And every time you find a bit of solid ground, your H brings more crazy.
You know... the fog has lifted.

When he came home remorseful, I though maybe, just maybe it was all a mistake. People snap sometimes and do things that they would have never done otherwise. He seemed so shaken up that I reverted to my default, which is to take care of him. But then he went back to blaming me for what happened and the timeline of the events snapped into place and the picture is so, so clear.

He beats me and tells me that he should have choked me out => Goes back to texting his ex => Tells me I was the catalyst when he wakes up => Comes home remorseful and is reassured and comforted => Gets a "be a better man" talk from his wife and reverts to blaming her for his beatings => Is comforted again and becomes subdued => Does some tending to the wife's injuries in such a detached way that you'd think someone else did this => Spends the rest of the day in constant communication with OW like nothing happened => Looks at some snapshots of porny cartoons and goes back to sleep in the marital bed.

This whole thing is completely outside of normal human behavior and response.

This morning when he came home I was still sleeping. Instead of closing my door and turning the TV on low, he left my door opened and watched subtitled Japanese cartoons at full volume--it's subtitles and Japanese voice acting so turn the TV down!

When he heard me showering, he came in wanting to know whether I was going somewhere. I told him not yet, but I did not shave my legs last night so I wanted to do that. And I thought he left to go downstairs. Nope! I get out of the shower and he's still sitting in the bedroom playing with the cats. He wanted to chat with me. My responses were short. He asked me how I was feeling and I told him that my neck was still incredibly sore. He reassured me that it will pass in a couple of days and told me that the only thing he can think of is more ice water.

Well, looks like someone has completely detached from what he has done! He's at the gym now, thank God!


So yeah, no - the fog is gone. This is a monster.

Quote
Your girlfriend said something like you are not prioritising yourself enough and, as an outsider, she seems to be exactly right...so it's time to use that smart head, break it down like any good legal brain does and set some firm priorities. I would suggest that these are, in order, a) your physical and mental safety, b) your financial safety, c) your own life/work/friends etc.....then a pretty big gap before d) your practical obligations with a military spouse about to be deployed, e) your emotional obligations to a mentally ill spouse in crisis and finally (and IMHO so far down the list that you're unlikely to have space/time right now)  f) your obligations to any strangers in his life who are enabling him which includes ow.
I think I'm there now, Treasur.

The physical and mental safety was not a priority before, but then again, I never thought he'd beat me... Of course, I never thought he'd get a mistress either. Lesson learned!

A wall is up. I want nothing to do with him and I will do everything I can to stay safe.

Quote
Another good thing...the universe is physically removing your H in a couple of weeks by deploying him for 9 months. And you have a new job in another location right? That is a blessing and a real gift of time to breathe, think and decide about things that you do not need to action right now. Any wise service person knows the cost of spreading your resources too thin and the importance of picking your battles.
Well, my school is in another state and, after I graduate, I will be moving states again (to JAG school for 6 months) and then I will move states yet again to go to my first duty station. So yes, I will be worlds away and I think that for as long as I have to give him any mailing information, I will keep a PO box.

Quote
I don't know you or the history of your marriage. I have made a ton of mistakes in my situation and failed often to prioritise wisely. But I am old enough to be your mother and if you were my daughter, I would want you to use your feisty, smart, disciplined self to put you at the top of your short-term list as your girlfriend lovingly suggested and:
Thank you again.

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- go to a doctor right now to look after yourself physically and establish an objective record of your injuries
Going to Planned Parenthood as soon as I am done typing this.

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- trust in your deepest gut that no reason is good enough to excuse someone trying to strangle you and no reason is good enough to stay in a situation where you are exposed to the risk of it happening again.
Oh you're right - he has no excuse. But I will stick it out until he leaves. If he tries anything again, he will find out just how hard I can fight back and how quickly I can call 911.

Quote
- you are not responsible for making your abuser 'feel calmer'...put simply, you should not be sharing a bed or living space with someone who has physically attacked you. Full stop. Life and mental illness are not black and white, but that is and you need to feel it and say so to your H. What he did was real and it is not ok, never ok. If he won't leave for the next few days, you need to do so.
No... I am not responsible for that, you are right. But I am safer if I do. There is nothing to be gained right now by insisting he gets his skanky wife-beating a$$ out of the bedroom.

Smile. Bide my time. That is what I am doing.

And maybe this is the feisty side of me talking, but I will never again be put out of my own house like I was when he flew his skank down here. I will be leaving this house last. I know this isn't wise, but I need it for my sanity, for my pride, and for my self-respect. He leaves first.


Quote
I'm not sure if your reaction to this will be the same as your reaction to Anjae's post. I can see how tough and smart you are, and I really hope that you will bite the bullet and see that this is not ok, not normal, not ignorable and that you need your fighting energy for you first now. Let everyone else, and everything else, take a ticket and stand in line...and if they don't like it, and some won't probably including your H, f**k 'em.
You know, according to my husband, I'm week and needy. Alternatively, I'm an evil conniving monster.

I'm starting to think that he might be projecting. Just a tad.  ::)

You're right, of course. I will do what I can for him, but I come first. He'll learn that when the time is right.

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2018, 09:25:02 AM »
This is probably too late, but I heard the police department has defensive training for women.

You sound good Diana, and I don't believe you will put yourself in harms way anymore.
If things ignite, you leave the house immediately.

Let us know how Planned Parenthood goes.
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Online Treasur

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2018, 11:07:16 AM »
Diana, I have no right to be, but I'm smiling a little with pride here. I can see the shift and you're worth you fighting for...your H right now, not so much. You must call it as you see fit and for your needs and self-respect...but if there is one more bit of violence, I'm trusting you to call 911 as you say. And if you don't I'll fly over there and shout at you like a good mother, then hug you and feed you cake  ;D
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2018, 03:13:44 PM »
Awwww! Ladies! Thank you!

This is probably too late, but I heard the police department has defensive training for women.
I took martial arts for a year in high school, actually. I'm also 5'7, 155 lbs, and well muscled. He's considerably bigger than I am, but I can and will fight back. I will not have an out-of-body experience like I did before.

That said, I fought back even in that out-of-body experience. There is a nasty scratch on his forearm, which he was boo-boo faced about this morning. I asked him about it because I did not remember scratching him and he told me it was from me. I rolled my eyes and told him that next time I'll try not to fight back when he's strangling me. But I do distinctly recall slapping him in the face and punching him in the groin several times during the incident. Hope those hurt.

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You sound good Diana, and I don't believe you will put yourself in harms way anymore.
If things ignite, you leave the house immediately.
The plan is to go to my car and call the cops  8)

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Let us know how Planned Parenthood goes.
Well, Planned Parenthood, sadly, does not do neck exams. I had to go to Urgent Care. There is considerable swelling around trachea, larnyx, hyoid, and the carotid, but nothing seems damaged although my movement range is significantly reduced due to pain and swelling. The doctor suggested muscle relaxants, but I pointed out that those may not be the wisest choice in my situation and he agreed. I'll be taking anti-inflammatory meds for the next 10 days and he told me that I should be symptom-free in 2 weeks.

TWO WEEKS!? How hard was he strangling me!? Jesus Christ!

I'll be sure to come back for the full medical report. While I asked them not to file a police report, I want the full medical report... for my records.

Also, I shall revisit Planned Paranthood in a couple of weeks for a confidential STI test... Just in case.


Diana, I have no right to be, but I'm smiling a little with pride here.
You have every right and thank you!

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I can see the shift and you're worth you fighting for...your H right now, not so much.
You know, I thought about him a lot this morning. I care about him. I always will, but the way you do about a sick household pet or a demented relative. It's not romantic love anymore.

Sex that he and I had up to now is just that - sex with someone whose body I know very well. He was losing his mind during it. I wasn't.

This morning we had the following text exchange:

Me: "Why were you in my closet yesterday."
Him: "I have stuff in there. Cause I wear your dresses when you're not looking and keep my urine jars in there. Duh!"
Me: "You're too fat for my dresses. Would you like me to move your clothes so that you have an easier time packing it? If not, I can pack it for you in July."
Him: "I'll just put it in the box at this point. You can pack the urine jars. I'm gonna rearrange your sh!t just to mess with you now."
Me: "Ship those to your mistress. She is used to picking up castoffs."
Him: "I'm not fighting with you, find someone else to put up with your temper tantrum."
Me: "It's not a tantrum and I'm not fighting with you. I asked a question. You got stupid. My response is the consequence of that."
Him: "Uh huh."
Me: "If I wanted a fight, I would have said 'refuse.'"

He came home quiet like a mouse and jumpy at every noise. I gave him a hug, which he seemed to have eagerly wanted, and comforted him. (You have to reward good behavior with small children.)

He made sure I had the paperwork I asked for, asked me if I was coming for dinner, and wished me a good time at my volunteer event (I'm off making blankets for the homeless this evening).

Yup! I'm his mommy now! Well, whatever it takes. Right now he wants my approval? I can use it.

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You must call it as you see fit and for your needs and self-respect...but if there is one more bit of violence, I'm trusting you to call 911 as you say. And if you don't I'll fly over there and shout at you like a good mother, then hug you and feed you cake  ;D
Oh I will! Can I still have cake? (After I pass my Field Training, of course)  ;D

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2018, 06:09:05 AM »
Update:

So, I had a very good time last night and got an invitation to a game night tonight. I'll definitely be going because I have absolutely no wish to stay at home.

When I came home, I was still on the phone with a friend. To some extent that irritates my husband, though he will not say it. I've made a choice long time ago that I will not be hiding my texts or my calls from him because I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of and refuse to sneak around to talk to friends like I am doing something wrong. In spite of everything that happened, he continues to try and hide his communication with the OW from me. At this point, I think he's seeking secrecy for secrecy's sake. At least to some extent that seems to be a necessary relationship component for them.

At the same time, he claims that he doesn't care if I sleep with someone else - he just doesn't want to hear about it. While he's doing that, he keeps asking every day when I am coming home so that he doesn't have to call the police to look for me. Last night those questions/comments were so back to back that I finally understood what it meant. He made some comments about me having a boyfriend and then told me to let him know when I wasn't going to come home to sleep so that he'd know not to call the police. So... he asks me when I'm coming home to gauge whether or not I'm leaving to have sex with someone else. Dear lord, WHY!?

After a while I went upstairs to shower and was stunned by what I saw. My bruises are coming in quite nicely! Now I know why my right breast was hurting so much. About a quarter of it is a giant, dark blue-green bruise. I went downstairs and showed it to him. He seemed truly horrified and couldn't even remember punching me there. Well, hon, you did! He apologized again and gave me a hug. I told him that I couldn't believe that he has done this and he said that he couldn't either and added "well, in 10 days I won't be your problem anymore." Yes, because THAT's how it works!

After he was done tooling around on his phone downstairs, he came up and went to the master bedroom where I was falling asleep. He laid down and said something to the effect of "I'm going to be on Pinterest for a bit."

I sat up and basically told him the following: "If you want to sleep here, you can. You can put in your earphones, turn on your YouTube stream (he falls asleep listening to whisper videos on YouTube), and you can sleep here next to me. I really don't care where you sleep. However, if you want to text your girlfriend, you need to go do it somewhere else." He protested that she is not his girlfriend and that he was trying to be nice to me by sleeping next to me because he thought that I liked it. I again reiterated that I did not care and asked: "Do you think it is appropriate to sleep next to your wife while texting the woman that you want to have sex with?" He protested that he's not even sure he wants to have sex with her anymore. I again rephrased: "Do you think it is appropriate to sleep next to your wife while texting the woman that you want to have a relationship with?"

He finally said "no." He put away his phone for a while and we talked a bit. Here's the gist of what he told me:

1. He doesn't think she will make up her mind by June
2. He's irritated that she seems so incapable of making up her mind
3. He remembers screaming at me that none of this would have happened if I had met his emotional needs, but he cannot articulate what those emotional needs are and he doesn't really know what they are, he just came to the conclusion that I will not meet them. Yup! He really said that!  :o
4. He thinks he needs to spend some time with a therapist figuring himself out
5. He thinks that 9 months of forced sobriety will be good for him
6. He believes that deployment will be his chance to sort things out and develop healthy coping strategies

After we talked, he made an excuse to go sleep in the spare bedroom and texted his OW for another hour. I checked because I was curious about my secrecy theory. I think I may be on to something, because he seems to look for ways to create secrecy around their communication when he really doesn't have to. By the way, that means he slept a grand total of 4.5 hours last night, at most.


Personally, I am looking forward to the 27th, when I will not have to leave my own house in attempt to escape all the insanity that I am living with here. I am counting days for him to be gone.

But I do have a very serious question, especially for those of you who has served and deployed: Is he delusional in believing that he will get mentally and emotionally better on deployment?

Offline Thunder

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2018, 04:11:00 AM »
You doing ok, Diana?
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline DianaDeBelflorTopic starter

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Re: It's probably early-onset MLC. He's the crazy one.
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2018, 07:01:27 PM »
You doing ok, Diana?
I am! Thank you for checking up on me! I guess I didn't have any updates yesterday, so, I focused on catching up with the threads where I've been posting a lot.

Husband is getting weird, but like not scary-weird... just pitiful weird.

Yesterday I played a prank of him and he didn't even go off on me. I guess that I should backtrack and explain that I have always been impish, not malicious. When people tick me off, I get even in creative ways... and it's not taking much for me to become irritated with him after he beat me.

He lost his garage door opener in that BMW he rented when he went to Texas. His regular car is at this point a beater that neither one of us expects to work in a year (it's only 6 years old, but that is how my husband takes care of things). Because of the car accident, I am driving a rental. If something happens to it, I am looking at another insurance claim and another $500 deductible. We live in an area with lots of hail. We've had occasional hail this weekend. Ergo, one would think that it'd make sense for my car to be parked in the garage, right? Well, I come home from my morning hike and his car is sitting in the driveway blocking the entrance to the garage. Before, he'd park in the guest parking lot next to our house. So, I go in and ask him to move the car. He starts being an ass and starts playing games about how he's not going to move it, or some other such nonsense. Finally, I say "Alright! I'll move it!" So, I took his keys and drove his car to the farthest guest parking lot in our subdivision. He figured that's what I did. Was he upset with me? Yes. Did he again attempt to remind me that this is the house that he is paying for? Yes. (And I am beginning to suspect that the OW is feeding these lines to him) But he didn't blow up. He didn't throw a tantrum. He even gave me a hug as I was laughing at him. He still has no idea where the car is exactly, so, I wish him nothing but the best tomorrow morning.

After that exchange, I left and went to Panera to check email and post in some threads. I came home only to change clothes to go to a pub. Now, I did put on a sexy dress, but it's not exactly club attire or anything - it's just a dress that I happen to look really good in. As I was walking downstairs, this conversation happened:

Him: "Hi little Dee-Dee! Whatcha doing?"
Me: "Going out."
Him: "In that dress?"
Me: "Yup! In that dress."

After he badgered out of me that I was going to a drinking establishment, he told me to call him for a ride if I get drunk... Yeah, like I ever get drunk. At this point, I am convinced that he's worried that I'll go home with someone.

I had a quiet dinner - salad and a flight of beer samples and messaged with some of the other lawyers who are going to go to the field training with me. I really like them, I think. Then I went to Macy's to appraise my new plates and flatware. I refuse to take with me and continue using the plates that she may have eaten off. Honestly, my house feels polluted.

I got home after he went to bed and got up before he woke up. I had a breakfast scheduled with another MeetUp group. There I met a very nice older gentleman who invited me to dinner this afternoon at his house with his family and friends. I gladly accepted and went home to make potato salad to take with me (usually I am more Martha-Stewart-y than than, but I didn't exactly have much time).

While I was at home, Romeo felt the need to hang around me all the time. He is convinced that I am going on dates and although he will deny it, it bothers him so, so much. In the course of that conversation, it came out that Big Baby thinks that I am dating and sleeping with everyone and anyone. After some teasing, I looked him straight in the eyes and told him the truth - I will not do to him what he did to me because that is not who I am.

We started talking some more... and it came out that He's upset that I didn't play Dungeons and Dragons with him 7 years ago. He really wanted to play it with me and I tried to, but I didn't like it. And he is still upset about that. He... has some serious mommy issues with me.  :o

I told him that I didn't think he minded that I didn't like it: "Romeo, if you had told me that it was important for you that we do this together, I would have kept playing. Just because I don't care for something does not mean that I am unwilling to do it with you, nor does it mean that I will resent you for asking--making you happy was always something that made me happy. But you really, really really had to ask and make it clear."

And this is how I manage him.

I gave him a big hug and kissed him and petted his head. I asked him to tell me about the new D&D world he's building and told him that I will play with him when it is done. We even pinky-swore.

And... this works.

When I treat him like a little boy, he does anything I ask and goes out of his way to talk to me when I get home. I stood him up for meatball subs he wanted to make for 3 days in a row now. So, he's waiting for me so that he can make them tomorrow night. Before I left, he agreed to do all the dishes that got left behind after I made the potato salad.

In general, he goes between loving on me like a little boy and getting super angry and offensive when I get irritated with him about anything. He wants approval. If I get mad at him, that immediately negates anything nice I said or did. I've been listening to him pretty closely and he is so messed up! He cannot accept that the woman who gets angry and says harsh things is also the woman who holds him and comforts him. He truly believes that I am an angry mean person who pretends to be nice for her own ends. The reason he is clinging to this girl so hard is because they have yet to have an argument or a fight. The reason he's so mad at me is because he cannot accept that I am a multifaceted person with a range of emotions--he needs constant affirmation and approval. So, I began giving him just that.

He... he is so broken.


But I had a good time. These people I met are wonderful. They all but invited me for Christmas. One of their sons and his friend bought movie tickets to a movie they have already seen so that I could have company watching it tonight. And it leads me to believe that it's not me--it's him. I am the person whom people like. He is alone. He wanted a different life, but I'm the only one of the two of us who got that. He had to pay for that girl to come and see him. I don't have to do that.

I pity him. I do.

 

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