[LisaLives]

http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/episode/index/id/366/Narcissism#watchonline

I have a theory that more than a minority of MLCers are narcissists or have other PDs, but narc is the one that goes most unrecognized.  Borderlines generally can't hide it that long.  This is a great program that was posted on another MLC forum. 

The two most salient point are at the end of the second part where they say that empathy is the opposite of narcissism.  And that is totally the crux of MLC/WAS--how can they not see the devastation?  And at the end of the third part they talk about the worst thing that can happen to a narc is to see themselves for what they are--the descent into depression or liminality as RCR terms it...  Good stuff...

[Buggy31]

LL
I really know my H is in MLC but I also have come to feel that he also has a PD.  Although he is his opposite in many ways I have come to accept that he exhibited PD too.  So I'll have to read the article but what you posted resonates......really

[LisaLives]

I am not saying they're not mlc, only that I thibk that what makes people susceptible to mlc is a pd, and I think narc spectrum disorders make one particularly vulnerable.  A narc believes they are perfect and entitled to a charmed existence.  So when certain challenges present, they have a harder time overcoming them...  Just a thought...

[Stillpraying]

LL,
Thanks for posting this.
My MIL phoned me last night to tell me it was on but I have yet to watch it.  Will do so later tonight as I'm off to get the boys from school in 30 mins.

Heres another article that you moight find interesting:
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2007/06/your-narcissists-self-esteem.html

I have had a particular interest in this PD since my Social worker friend identified she thought H might have it and also RCR picked up on it in her coaching on my thread.

I was going to start a discussion about what the MLCer's characteristics were before MLC as mine seems to have had many of the NPD traits before MLC.  I do still believe he's been in MLC 3-4 years now but some of the things he's shown our whole married life are:
Name calling, controlling, looking after his own personal belongings very well but not paying the same respect to other's belongings.  Always wanting to 'upgrade' everything that was his at the financial detriment of the family. The excessive need for affirmation.  The sense that I was to make him happy, as that was my purpose.  (Interesting that he never once asked what he could do to make me happy.)  Denial of responsibility. (if I don't deal with it - Bills etc it will go away). Jealousy and envy.  Lazy work ethic (would take a sickie but then go and play in the band the evening of the same day as he couldn't let THEM down, never mind his family needed him to provide for them).

The above may sound like a long picky list as I am very analytical but it's something I'm thinking about at the moment as it affects my stand.  Is this man simply going through a crisis (yes!) but will he become less self centred and be able to empathise and focus on the needs of others in addition to his own after he get's through the crisis (if ever)?

I'd be interested if other's had 'difficult' relationships before the peak of MLC hit and if they've looked back and think maybe there was a PD all along. 

[LisaLives]

SP, This is what I have struggled with the whole time.  If you ever want to chat, let me know.  I have read a lot about narcs.  The term "emotional vampires" is so fitting, isn't it?   

I know my H is having some type of MLC.  I also know he was a narc before and narcs seldom get better--when the major characteristic of the disease is that you know there is nothing wrong with you--it makes it hard to fix anything...  And that is why I struggle so much with standing--and defending him--he may get through the crisis, but if he's still a narc, well, he's still a narc and I am out of supply.   

One of my best friends told me MIL was a narc about two years before BD and told me that I did not have the psychological toolbox to deal with her the way I would have to since she was going to be moving here to help take care of my kid.  And even though all my psychologist friends knew forever that all H's family were, it was only after BD that I started to figure him out.  Many people from narc families have "fragile narcissism."  And with this variety, you can believe you had a good marriage if YOUR personality type is generally giving and people pleasing.  Of course many people have traits that lead themselves to "inverted narcissism" and the codependency that is associated with wanting to be with a narc type.  So you can be in a narc relationship and be happy for a long time. 

I could write lots, but this program was great.  Lisa 

[Stillpraying]

LL,
Yes, it would be good to chat.
I'm back from my meeting (over the road) and the kids are in bed so I think I'll watch the program.

It is dissapointing to think they won't change like other MLCer's can.  I do beilive God can help anyone change if they want to but that's the issue If THEY WANT too.  H says he doesn't have an anger problem.  He's just passionate!   I guess it's passion when you call your wife names and tell your sister you could have easily broken her neck and not felt any remorse just because she was at your former home helping mind the kids
I can't be dicorced until next year so my stand is by default at the moment.  I'll take it slowly while I learn more about PD's and H.  I don't need to make any huge decisions now anyway.
Sp

[Buggy31]

Darn it ....wasnt able to watch as my computers down and can only use d9 iPod.  I'd love to chat too as you've brought up some really interesting points with some knowledge.  I don't know much about PDA but they are in his immediate family from the little I do know.  Right about the time I felt something really wrong with him I started to become very aware that something was wrong overall...funny how in denial I was but mine was the personality of very protective committed man.....but to extreme.....really...unable to be anything that was outside that.  Father same way.   Unable to break routines.....highly obsessive....same with father...I am interested in this for many reasons but an important one is understanding this mental health history for my kids.

[LisaLives]

Bugs, You are spot on, there are so many things I want to break for my kids.  Even my son started talking the other day about the fact that he feels like "D needs me to make him happy, and I feel like that's not my job..."   Ding, ding, ding, winner, winner, chicken dinner...

This program came at the right time for me because I have to stop the vampire habits before they become a part of my kids.  It is all the emotional theft that creates a new generation of narcs.  If their parents steal all their esteem and emotions and happiness, it leaves a big gaping hole that they then have to fill with someone else's supply.  Narcs do not know empathy, can not teach empathy and do not have appropriate boundaries. 

Oh I could go on, but here is an interesting article for anyone who thinks they may be dealing with bigger PD issues than just MLC... 

The Emotional Injury of Distorted Boundaries
Abandonment issues are fused with distorted, undefined personal boundaries.

Published on June 21, 2010 by Claudia Black, M.S.W., Ph.D. in The Many Faces of Addiction
 
Edited to remove article and make a link to the source instead. Please do not post full articles written by others; post a link,; those writers are looking for traffic and often their work is copyrighted.

[Stillpraying]

Thanks for poston LL.  Also just watched the SBS show.
Very interesting and I can see H's FOO issues have had a lot to do with it.
SP

[Stillpraying]

http://www.narcissismcured.com/Intro_from_Kim.html