[forthetrees]

For me there´s a huge disconnect between asking for time and immediately going off on a one week get-away with ow. If someone really is considering working it out, I would think that they would use the time to be by themselves for a deep introspection. Remember, look at actions over words. If you discounted his words, the actions of leaving to spend time with her speaks volumes. If you are still on the fence I´d ask him to explain what his request for time really means- time to do what?

A while back NPR interviewed an author, Finn Murphy, who blew up his family with MLC behavior. He described as taking a match to his family. He was a long haul trucker and wrote a book, The Long Haul. Here´s the bit from the NPR interview:

MURPHY: So I was on - living on Nantucket Island as a high-profile businessman and citizen and community activist. I was actually chairman of the county commissioners on Nantucket. I was a police commissioner. I was the airport commissioner. I was on the board of the chamber of commerce. I was a successful person, married, living in a small town. And, well, what happened is I got into a relationship with a woman who wasn't my wife. And my life exploded. Or probably more accurately, I took a match to my life and blew it to pieces. And so Nantucket is not a place where that kind of thing is going to be unnoticed or uncommented upon.

And I moved to Colorado, and I called up an old driver friend of mine who started his own trucking moving company. And I said, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing now with my life. But I had always kept my commercial driver's license just because. And so then I went back out on the road because I didn't know what to do - completely lost. And you know what? There's a lot of us out there - a lot of drivers who are like that. And I knew I'd have plenty of company.

I salute you for not being his uber lift to LAX. The curious thing is that he seems to blame you for his feeling of being emasculated because your job is the one carrying the family but he´s willing to dump his family to be a boy-toy. It does not add up. How is that going to fill the self-esteem hole he has dug? You don´t have to commit to a trip to Turkey this far in advance. If it all goes to $hit before then do you really want to vacation there? Bottomline, protect your health.

FTT

[KayDee]

The curious thing is that he seems to blame you for his feeling of being emasculated because your job is the one carrying the family but he´s willing to dump his family to be a boy-toy. It does not add up. How is that going to fill the self-esteem hole he has dug?

Was thinking the exact same thing. Where did the muffin cooking dream of a wife go?

Also, note of caution about what he says he will or won't do regarding finances and childcare. You cannot trust him at the moment. You must put your needs and your kids first. Don't rely on what he says. Too many stories here (and from my own book) that says they forget what they say, drop it when it has consequences for them that they don't like, or can't afford or, the OW prods them to do otherwise.

You are not pathetic for giving this situation space. You are wise. You have your hand on the tiller now and you can decide things at a time that suits you.

And just a note about LOVE - he doesn't love himself, how can he love anyone else?

(((hugs)))

[marvin4242]

He said he loves me, he will love me forever, he does not want to lose me or this family. He said he is asking for some time to figure it out. He is leaving here Monday and he is flying to meet her in Barcelona.

I know this is probably what you want to hear, but all of this is confusion, fog and means nothing. It is standard script. Want to know something? My wife, in all sincerity, said to me that she just wanted one year and she would be back. Right before she flew off to go spend some time with her "soul mate." Seven years later (and after many many changes and alterations and infinite confusion) she is still with him, but no longer as happy with him (she has been staying at our house now for well over a year without him but is going back in 2 weeks to see him again), and she never used the "time" to heal or figure anything out. She just kept blowing things up.

I am only sharing this so you can make clear headed decisions about where your limits are and as much as we all hope and wish things to be true I would urge you to try to not fall into your own fog of wishful thinking. A very good guide that has served me well is this: ignore the words and watch the actions, they are much closer to reality. The words are NOT matching the actions.

[amazinglove]

thank you for the replies! you are so right about the actions not matching the words! And also I am so grateful to be reminded ab all the inconsistencies here. You all are such a lifeline for me.

I've told him tonight that today- our wedding anniversary - has to be our goodbye.  I was not bluffing, I would not bluff with him. You all have warned me repeatedly that with MLC'ers that does not work. But I said that we had a true love and that I cannot share him with another and he has to go on with his life and I will mine. I was not rash, I was not angry or emotional, It was just very clear in my head. I felt my heart lift and a peace immediately afterwards.

We can discuss paperwork maybe before he leaves. I will think about how best to broach this.

I said that our problem is not a dead sex life, or my personality/control  or anything else, it's that you don't want to be the person you were anymore. You want to be someone else. And I loved that other guy. He agreed. He wants to be someone else - I think he really hates himself - but at the same time, is narcissistic enough to want to keep me in his back pocket.

He literally was romantic with me this am and then booked his plane ticket to leave. And he is going directly to her. That was a wake up call for me let me tell you.

He is in there now reading to our son. He is lovely with him (mostly) and our kids do adore him. Now that he knows he is leaving he is really throwing himself into it.  I will not stop him coming back in April but I might not stick around while he's here. Maybe I'll go to NYC again or go see friends in London. If I'm honest, I still have some hope that he might come back truly repentant, but I also know that the man he is now I do not respect or want, and he prob cannot do the work he needs to do to come back. Altho I still have some hope in my heart, I am willing to lose him because the way I see it, unfortunately, I have already lost him.

It's clear to me that he is planning a future with someone, and he's excited about it. While I was away in NYC he started to make plans with her, and since he knows he will leave Monday and has an ending in sight, he's like a diff, much happier man.  I'm starting to feel more and more that our steps from here on out are not designed to be taken together. God help me, I really meant it when I said I was letting him go.

 I cannot tell you enough what a good man he used to be. The best one I knew. It's in honor of that guy that I've been as forgiving as I've been.  The man in front of me now is like a shell, a pale imitation of that glorious specimen of a man I once had, and whose children I now raise. I will send him in peace, but honestly, I doubt he'll ever find it on his own.

I am working on my own healing from here on out.

thanks for your wisdom as ever!

[UrsaMajor]

Just as some additional food for thought, his Moscow Mule might not end up as rich or supportive as he is currently dreaming. With the current world geopolitical situation, she could very well find herself on the wrong side of Putin's government or the wrong side of the Sanctions Regime. In either case, her life (and therefore his as her boy-toy) will dramatically change.

Personally, I think you are VERY wise to be putting up a firewall between you and him (and by default her).

His problem is NOT that he "wants to be someone else"as it is that he has a deep-seated loathing of who he really is that has been drummed into him from outside somehow (FOO issues). He has never learned how to sooth himself or confront/exorcise/banish his own internal demons, having instead covering them over with the bandaid of external validation. That works for a while but at some point, it doesn't. Even the best spouse int eh world can not keep plastering that wound over because it just keeps getting deeper and deeper and more infected until it reaches the core and blows up. However, instead of really working on himself and learning how to love himself, he is turning to the next Band-Aid provider. As long as he keeps turning to the next Band-Aid provider and doesn't do the work needed to heal the rot at the core, he will not EVER find happiness or relief. He will continue to be "that guy" that he hates because, hey, until one does the work needed, no matter how fast and how far they run, there they are... They can't outrun themselves (although some literally die trying).

It is easier to blame others, find fault in the external world, with the LBS, than it is to really look inside at the issues that are causing their pain, because, to do that means that they have to take responsibility for themselves, for their actions,and for the consequences resulting from their actions.

[Treasur]

He said he loves me, he will love me forever, he does not want to lose me or this family. He said he is asking for some time to figure it out. He is leaving here Monday and he is flying to meet her in Barcelona.

I know this is probably what you want to hear, but all of this is confusion, fog and means nothing. It is standard script. Want to know something? My wife, in all sincerity, said to me that she just wanted one year and she would be back. Right before she flew off to go spend some time with her "soul mate." Seven years later (and after many many changes and alterations and infinite confusion) she is still with him, but no longer as happy with him (she has been staying at our house now for well over a year without him but is going back in 2 weeks to see him again), and she never used the "time" to heal or figure anything out. She just kept blowing things up.

I am only sharing this so you can make clear headed decisions about where your limits are and as much as we all hope and wish things to be true I would urge you to try to not fall into your own fog of wishful thinking. A very good guide that has served me well is this: ignore the words and watch the actions, they are much closer to reality. The words are NOT matching the actions.

I have to agree. This was my experience too. My then h ummed and awwed, lots of declarations then silence then lots of sadz for about a year I think. My memory of those times is still a bit fuzzy, but it was awful and awfully confusing. I had no idea what was going on. And of course there were a lot of things going on with his ‘I need space and time, please don’t give up on us’ that I did not know about. But he did keep blowing things up, regardless of his words. And reader, turned out he married her lol.

The only difference in my situation from Marvin’s is that I have no contact or information about his life now, by my choice once we were divorced and he was married to someone else. So I have no idea if it worked out for him or if he is any happier or mentally healthy than he was when he blew up our life. No idea at all. I live as if he died tbh.

And why tbh I think the best thing most of us can do is work with the cards we have in our hand and do what we need to do to keep our own head above water. To accept the actions we can see rather than the assumptions and words I so wanted to believe bc the actions made no sense to me at all. But that included, for me, really letting go of his role in my life and mine in his bc that is what his actions brought in reality. Just a sample of one though 

[KayDee]

I have to agree. This was my experience too. My then h ummed and awwed, lots of declarations then silence then lots of sadz for about a year I think. My memory of those times is still a bit fuzzy, but it was awful and awfully confusing. I had no idea what was going on. And of course there were a lot of things going on with his ‘I need space and time, please don’t give up on us’ that I did not know about. But he did keep blowing things up, regardless of his words. And reader, turned out he married her lol.

Mine too, I'm afraid. I have had the Uber Sadz and despite what seems like a lot of awareness that it is him, that he needs help, that he is utterly ashamed of what he did, he still keeps on blowing things up. In other words, ditto.

Wanted also to comment of UM's last post. A great, if not devastating, description of how people who don't like themselves can behave. Always seeking outside validation to feel whole, and perhaps in midlife fracture it becomes an accelerated addiction. I also believe the crisis person does not like how they see themselves reflected in their spouse's eyes. They know (deep or not so deep down) that their behaviour is despicable - many want to smash that mirror. Then they need to find someone that says 'you are such a good person'.

And thank you for resurrecting the moniker Moscow Mule. Churlish of me, I know, to chuckle at a nickname, but we can't be angels. My friend has nicknamed my H's OW - The Lifeboat. The Lifeboat in search of a drowning man. Yesterday, my friend downgraded this to a pedalo. In the end, OW's legs will get tired, I suppose.

[Reinventing]

Altho I still have some hope in my heart, I am willing to lose him because the way I see it, unfortunately, I have already lost him.

Yes, this took me a long time to grasp. He was already gone.

It just took time for my head and heart to catch up to that.

[amazinglove]

I just wanted to add in regards to the OW, sure, she may be in his ear, and it’s all infuriating, but in the end you will realize it doesn’t matter. He’s responsible for his choices. That includes the choice to leave his children again after two weeks, as much as you want to shield them from that pain. The only way to protect kids in these situations is to try to help them see that it’s not about them, none of it is their fault and that you can’t control other peoples actions but that other peoples actions are not a statement about who you are. Kids identify themselves as their parents, there’s no separation for them. if someone says their parent is bad, it means they are bad. If they perceive their parents to be bad, they perceive themselves to be bad. You can help them see that his actions aren’t a reflection of them, but you can’t do anything about his actions. he’ll have to live with the fallout of that, of leaving his kids to go try to find some part of himself in another human being.

this was SO helpful to me. you have no idea. thank you!

[amazinglove]

I'm sitting here next to a blazing fire looking out at a pounding rain on the windows. One of my favourite places to be. I had two meetings cancel today so I thought I'd give an update.

H left yesterday. it was a tough goodbye for all of us. He cried more than the rest of us though. I woke up this morning and when I remembered he was gone, my first reaction was relief. Having said that, it was very clear to me that I still have deep love for him (more than I thought I did)  and I wish him out of this pit he's in (of his own making). I do have some compassion for him though, I really do. He is miserable. I have never seen a sadder person.

We had a really productive conversation on Sunday. We were running errands (he got new tires for the car) It was non-confrontative but it was v honest.  He knows that I have been pushed past the limit of behavior I can accept and that altho I love and wish him with us, I am unwilling to continue as his wife, divorce papers or no. He expressed doubt, fear, regret, all the emotions, but he still got on the plane. I did NOT take him to the airport.

He has been messaging me almost from the moment he left. He now says he feels strange being there with her. Maybe that's because she is the Prince of Darkness in a human body? Whatever. I hope she sees him texting me and gets angry. Anyway, I am keeping contact as close to zero as I can. I refuse to engage or update him on our lives here while he is with her. And if his mental fog lifts even slightly (which it appears to be doing)  that's a good thing, for him, and for the kids for sure - and maybe for us. Maybe.

These MLC timelines are tough to get around tho. I hear you, people don't just 'snap back' into place. I believe it. Even if he IS able to walk away from her, which is still prob unlikely I guess, what shape does he 'come back' in? It's a completely totaled car. I have no idea how that even repairs. Or honestly, if I want to be a part of that. There is so much here at the beginning of 'how can I get him back?" and then you go thru so much with them and you're finally like, 'could I ever live with them again/take them back?" And don't get me wrong,  I know I am not there with him (he's not even asking yet and may never) but I can see it, I can feel it - that is going to be a question for me at some point.

He tells me he loves me almost constantly now. He calls me 'hon' again in messages. He gave me most of what is in his bank account. He turned over all his stocks to me 'for the kids' future'. There is no monstering going on - altho I'm geared up that that could change when i push back hard on something.

Also did anyone feel like their MLC spouse had like slipped 20-30 points in IQ? What IS that about? Honestly, he seemed so dumb! I felt like he was helpless, powerless, constantly confused, forgetting everything, I looked at the eight stages book again last night and it seems to track with a kind of regression - bc the person who was here was like a teenager more than a man. A teen who has never been a parent, thought of his own comfort first, and had no idea even how to parent. It was really weird. He loved on the kids but it was more like a big brother. It was so strange to observe. He was a VERY attentive and active dad - a really good one- prior to this or maybe it wouldn't be so crazy to see.

You all always remind me about detachment and focusing on myself, that which is in my control - and as the only sane parent my kids have.  That remains my goal. I am making plans for the kids' spring break in early April and I have my sis and a gf coming out here from NYC end of March. One of my best friends (in Sydney) may come out in March too. I pushed forward a minor cosmetic procedure (one I've been wanting for years) to early March as I didnt' want to do it while he was here.All good things.

I will look at real estate/houses when I'm out visiting my friend in Bentonville, Arkansas in April. I am ready to leave California in 2025 and start over in a new locale. This former NYC/London glam girl now wants a truck, chickens and a sheep.

God has good plans.