[xyzcf]

I believe I know what this panel of my trusted advisors is going to say: don't sell your CA house and escape to the country and buy chickens, a flatbed and a sheep - yet.  Slow your breathing and your steps and focus on what you can control and your own healing. Stop trying to figure him out. Detach, get some space, go no contact unless about kids. Is that right?

Helpfully I have three diff friends coming out to stay with me in March. And a trip planned with kids in early April to Bentonville, Ark to see my best friend in all the world. I will have lots and lots of girlfriend/margarita time.

It's a great thing to have people that we can run ideas by and obtain a variety of thoughts and views. I question though if we are actually giving "advice" that is useful to you in your situation. Actually can we even do that ( or any of your friends who you will be sharing your story with) since none of us have walked in your shoes, or are we projecting our own situation by advising you what to do based upon what happened in our own personal story?

It's easy for us to become "lost" in the monkey braining that goes on...exhausting too as we wait for the next text or email, the next visit, the next bit of information that we find out about and the ideas we form in our heads about what they are doing.

We are not there to see what they are up to, and what ever we think is happening may or may not be true.

All the advice isn't going to solve what is really the main issue....what do you want for yourself and for your family? When in a crisis, he's not giving you straight answers nor making any attempts to work at saving your marriage...I wouldn't expect him to at this stage.

It's hard to explore and examine options for our lives. We are not on the course that we were before they left. People will give you all kinds of opinions, and it's ok to weigh them...but it really comes down to this.

What do you want for yourself and your family? Taking him out of the equation for it is unlikely he's ready to work on your marriage...as is often said, actions speak louder than words.

You want to be sure that whatever decision you make is because it is something you have carefully weighed, not something that the majority of people think is right for you, but what you come to realize is right for you.

Most therapists will not give their opinion of what they think you should do...good ones anyway. Their job is to work with you so you can discover for yourself what fits. Their crisis causes many huge adjustments in our lives. What we think is "fair"..that they should take responsibility for their children's welfare is rarely the case...they are off in their own world getting their jollies in many ways that do not include responsibility for a family.

Who they were before the crisis, a good father, a loving husband is no longer who they are now and it is hard to see that clearly.

I will continue to encourage you to take your time, to slow down, perhaps stop sending him ultimatums. He is not in the picture presently and has not been for several months. You are taking care of it all..and doing so remarkably well.

Life is a risk. We can never be 100% sure that it will turn out the way we had planned, yet we still need to plan to make our lives work.

Whatever your own plan is, once you can sort that out, will be the right one for you. For today anyway....not to say that your plan cannot change in the future.
It's hard for me to explain my thoughts here...just a few observations from following your thread. My own perspective which may not be anything close to how you perceive things.

[amazinglove]

Thank you all!! All perspectives welcome and gratefully received!!
Xyxcf thanks for giving me such good questions to think about.
My husband was a great and faithful man before this. Our bond was, I thought, unshakable. So much has happened in the last 5 months it’s hard to see any hope presently but there is still love. So I guess there is some hope.
I am going to work on detaching and healing. I need to be in better shape when he gets back here in 5 weeks. He will be with his sisters after this week and has a minor surgery planned so galavanting will be on pause.
I am starting to solidify my needs, my goalposts, my bare minimums, so that when he shows up I can at least articulate what I need in order to try.
I agree about ultimatums but the thing is he has pushed me so far past my actual limits that I am like one argument away from filing for divorce. And I don’t believe he has the coping skills or emotional strength to put the work in to heal this. The bone is broken.
So my plan is to focus on me. I will break contact unless it’s about kids.
Lots of prayer, long walks, good music, reading, hard lemonade going on over here.
One question that occurs to me- do you think we give our spouses more of a break when it comes to cheating bc it is accompanied by such evidence of a complete mental breakdown? Mine has been manic, ranting (repeating same phrase over and over) constant sobbing etc. he never ever cried before this. So I wonder where is the line between compassion and holding people accountable.?

[WHY]

I have so many thoughts here.  XY nails it when saying most of us can’t offer advice because we’re tainted because of our own situations. This is so true.  You need to do what YOU have to do and take everything with a grain of salt. 

That said.  I have an at home wallower that filed for D but can’t seem to leave, yet won’t stop destroying me legally and financially and wanting to take the kids, the house etc.  It’s been mental torture and incredible suffering.

But I’ve read and learned so much here and always wondered about cake eating if I ever ended up in that situation.   So perhaps I’m a little more objective. 

My thoughts on cake eating is that they only do it so openly because they can, and they know you’re not going anywhere.  Otherwise they’d be underground and denying everything under the sun (at least for the clingers/boomerangs). 

Now you saying cake eating is a boundary to your H is fine.  But 1)what are you going to enforce it with.  And 2) are you actually going to go through with enforcement?

And I just really ask because 3) what do you hope to achieve when setting this boundary.   Really think about these 3 questions.   Because if your goal is actually to stop your own pain, I doubt that temporality preventing H from seeing OW will achieve this long term.  Because he will go back.   or go underground, or OW2.  With more lies and deceit.  And promise the world yet do the opposite.  It’s what they do. 

I think you need to first figure out if you’re going to stand or not.   That’s totally up to you and you alone.   My only $0.02  is that when you say things like you’re one argument away from D, then IMO, you’re not ready to make that decision.  People told me that you just know when you’re ready for D and it was so true.   It’s a much less emotional decision or a response to something that happened.   You won’t be driving yourself crazy, debating if you’re doing the right thing etc.   You must know. 

So I don’t think you should make the decision to stand or not stand right now, or D or not D etc.  give yourself time.  You’ll know when you’re ready.  The decision will be made for you IMO. 

You can however try a short term band aid to try stop your bleeding/pain by setting a boundary.   But again.  Truly ask yourself why you want to do this.   Are you trying to save your marriage by influencing your MLcers behavior.  Or trying to slow down your bleeding so you can buy some time before you know if you’re willing to stand or not.  Because trying to influence your MLCer will never work.  Threats, ultimatums.  Forget about it.  Never gonna work. 

But slowing bleeding?   I could see how this could work in the short term. 

For example, you could tell your H he is not welcome in your home or not welcome as part of your family while he is with OW.  That you would like him to be, but that its not an option while he’s seeing OW.   RCR had some good vids about her H and you should watch them to figure out the right wording.  I can’t recall exactly. 

He may agree to no OW, come home, promise the world, then seethe.  But what are you going to do about it when he breaks that boundary, which he will.  I think RCRs husband left 7 times!?   will your H checkout again and not sleep at home while OW is back on, or OW2, and respect your boundary?  Because what are you going to do when he doesn’t voluntarily leave?   Any can you handle that pain again even if he does?

Because if he defies you and you can’t get him to leave the house.   The boundary was worthless and just causes you more pain.  And at that point, for me personally, and this is just MY opinion, I would set a final boundary and file for D if he doesn’t respect it. 

Which at the end of all this, is the likely outcome if your H does not respect your 1st boundary.  But at least you bought yourself the time you need to just “know” if you’re ready to D. And can tell yourself you gave H a chance and gave the marriage a chance (even if deep down you knew it was never really an option unless H genuinely respects your 1st boundary and you’re willing to deal with the ongoing pain of back and forth).

Remember the boundary is that no sleeping at home or part of the family as long as he’s seeing OW.  But he could chose to see OW and not sleep at home / be part of the family and he would be respecting your boundary!!  And you would need to be ok with this. 

 Otherwise you should be setting a different boundary.  That you’ll file for D if he doesn’t stop seeing OW.  Which you know he most likely wont stick to long term.  And you would need to be ok with all outcomes like D (which I don’t think you’re ready to make that decision).

The choice of boundary depends on what you hope to achieve. 

I’m so sorry you’re in this position.  It sucks.  But MLC is brutal.

And I reread my message.  It’s a little all over the place (on my phone at 2am and I’m exhausted).  I hope some of it helps. 
. 

[A Life Unimagined]

I am so sorry you are going through this. We are all on a journey we did not want nor did we ever imagine, but here we are. This forum, thank God, has offered me the comfort and answers I need to continue to put one foot in front of the other. My MLC husband dropped the bomb on me on August 28, 2024, and moved out of our home on October 16, 2024. I found out shortly before Christmas that he has also been having an affair with a 23-year old intern he hired (he's 54 years old). Since then it has been a whirlwind of unimaginable pain, anxiety and grief for me, my children and our extended family members who all loved him very much and, up until bomb drop, regarded him as a pillar of morality - a loving and devoted husband and father with unwavering principles. So I get it...I know you are going through excruciating pain and I hope my thoughts on this can help you.
 
"How do I take my heart off the table?"

Although possible, it is certainly not a process that happens overnight and it's definitely not without additional pain. Due to overwhelming anxiety that was jeopardizing my health, I had to accept that my marriage and life as I knew them were over. I had to accept that the man I was married to for 17 wonderful years was "dead" - he was not coming back. This strategy helped me to protect my precious memories and separate them from the MLC version of this man that now has a warped view of our history and is doing everything can to taint those memories. I made the conscious decision not to hate my pre-MLC husband for all of the hurt his MLC twin was causing. So I laid my pre-MLC husband to rest, going through the typical grieving process a widow(er) experiences.

I removed any and all pictures of him from my phone, downloading them onto a USB-stick that I have placed with my children's photo albums. I took down our couple photos from around the house, keeping only those of him and the kids that are in each of the children's bedrooms (they should keep memories/mementos of their father), and I unfollowed (although still connected with) him on social media so that I do not see any of his posts/content. I then packed away his clothes and stacked the boxes in a spare room so that I don't have constant reminders each time I get dressed. I didn't do these things out of spite or anger - I did these things to protect my peace. I did these things to minimize the anxiety, pain and distress. I did these things for my mental and physical health because my children deserve one healthy parent - one who can be fully present FOR THEM and to help them deal with THEIR grief and pain.

I took my focus off my MLC husband (and marriage), and decided to focus on my kids. The children are the ones that suffer the most in this situation and coming to the recognition that life MUST continue for them (with or without my MLC husband) is what really helped me to heal and move forward with my decisions. 

What you choose to do in the end will become clearer to you as you detach and your heart progressively "comes off the table". You can and will build a better life with your children. You WILL become stronger, more independent, more resilient, and more confident in yourself as a woman and mother. Your children will admire you for being the loving constant in their lives, and the reward of their unconditional love is something NO ONE and NOTHING can ever take away from you - EVER.

I wish you all the best and know that you are not alone in this. God bless you and your children.

[Treasur]

Lots of wise words and questions for your reflections from other posters.

The common underlying thread seems to be about taking the time and space to really consider what you want and what you and your kids need, and the various options you can see you might have. That sounds easy, doesn’t it, but most of us know all too well that our honest answer initially is some version of I Want What I Had and Not This followed by some longer term version of How Do I Get That and Not This Eventually 

And of course that sits uncomfortably with the current This Is Actually Happening Right Now and I Don’t Know What To Do and I Need A Plan feeling…..
So it’s not easy at all.
And, as xyzcf rightly says, what really matters most is how you see your current situation and what you feel able and ready to do - or not do - based on the information currently available to you. So it’s truly not a one size fits all thing.

Imho giving ourselves the time and soace to let our own thoughts and feelings bubble for a bit before we choose a path that works for us best is useful, wise and often deeply uncomfortable. It tends to raise questions that are about more than just what we want or need, questions about what we believe or assume or expect. And why. And how those shape our own lens on the current situation, and our own behaviour and actions. Or not.

And again jmo but there is a difference between Want and Need.
Which also can take a little time to prise apart.

Again jmo, but it can also be useful to pull your timeline in closer. To focus more on what you want and need Now, and Next, and perhaps After That rather than trying to preguess months or years down the line.

If you had to say what you and your kids need now, what would that be? For the next few days? Or the next couple of weeks?

There’s a truism in life that when we don’t know quite what to do, it is often worth doing not very much. Allowing time and events to inform us, letting things come rather than hunting them down. Letting ourselves settle a bit, letting ourselves tune in to our own deepest instincts and judgement with less doubt rather than being hoiked around by events that distract us. Some of us found that limiting interaction with events for a while, and therefore our spouse, was necessary in order to feel that. Others didn’t. You know best what will work for you, I suspect.

But I do think there is some truth in that ‘when you know, you know’ moment about big choices you might make. And tbh with the ‘if you still feel confused, then your spouse is not in the useful repairing anything place’ irrespective of what they say. When you know that words and actions don’t match even though you wish they did.

Trust what your gut says in your calmer moments. Both about what the situation really looks like to you and about what you need given how you see it. And that it’s ok too to change your mind as time and events and priorities change. 

[amazinglove]

You are the most wonderful group of people! Honestly, I am just amazed by the generosity of spirit here, the willingness to share and go back over painful memories in order to help someone else and the sheer wisdom on offer! there are not enough words for me to express my gratitude.

I woke up this morning to plaintive what's apps from H ' hi hon how are you? how are kids? i love you. i miss you etc etc."

I was going to ignore. But then i decided not to let that lie stand.

I replied "this is not love. what you are doing is not love. what you have broken, what you are still breaking, i'm not sure it's fixable. you know i am in tremendous pain but other things matter more. Another woman's feelings? That is not a husband. That is not my husband. I don't want him. My email is really how I feel. I took my time to write it. Pls don't contact me again until you are away from her. I will update you on anything important ab the kids. I need time and space to heal and move on."

And as I wrote it, I realized it was the truth. The words just came. My old marriage really is dead and I need to mourn it and move on from it. The pain is big, because it was a big love and it's ending is like breaking the sky.

 I realize that there are two possibilities - but both are good outcomes. He does the emotional work needed to repair this $h!teshow (which will take a miracle of God I admit) and we rebuild stronger than ever, or I stride ahead on my own with my gorgeous kids and see all the good plans God has. 

Either way, as someone wiser than me said, it will be all right in the end, and if it's not all right, it's not the end.

[Dragonfly33]

Amazing you reminded me of being in your situation. I know how difficult and confusing it is especially when they try to manipulate you by saying those words you want to hear. My exh was just like that. Suddenly he would text me telling me how much he misses me and loves me but his actions were totally different. Like what Treasur said, you will just know what to do when you are ready. I changed my mind so many times believe me. I was in terrible pain because what I wanted was my old H. But he was gone and he wouldn’t come back anymore. That person was dead. Be kind to yourself. I would not wish this situation to anyone not even to my worst enemy. It’s just brutally painful.

[Treasur]

What you may come to see is that, right now, your words to him will prove to be as futile as his to you. Sorry. I know that makes no sense either probably.

Actions matter more than words. His and yours.

I wonder what would have happened if you had gone with your first instinct and just ignored his text……

Given his track record, I’d start planning now what you will do - or not do - to SHOW your boundaries as opposed to TELL your boundaries when he ignores them. Or indeed ask as you essentially did here. Bc if I were a betting woman, I’d bet he will and that he will use contacting your children as an easy gateway. These folks like centrality and attention, and, like small kids, tend to act out to get it. 3 days max I’d bet lol. Sorry.

[xyzcf]

One thing that I am sure of, it does not matter what you say or do not say, what you send in a message or any things that make sense to you that you think he might listen to you...it will not make a difference in his crisis.

We want to be heard. We want to feel like we have tried. We feel we should have some say in all of this. We speak our minds until there comes a point when the realization sets in......if it is better for you to withdraw any type of reasoning communication, then do so...if it feels right to you to send him your thoughts, then do so. Because he is out of the country, you have not had much face to face time with him.

Each person's story is different. No two are alike, no two relationships are alike, nor belief systems, not our own childhood teachings.

Take what you feel is helpful and disregard the rest.

You are doing the best you can. You have been successful in your life, in your work, as a mother, as a wife.....perhaps you approach your marriage ending in a similar way to other aspects of how you deal with situations that come up in life...yet nothing has prepared us for this. So sometimes we are going blind and we learn..yes we learn what works for us and what doesn't.

But as I wrote in my previous post...what do you want for yourself and your family? When you are clear aboiut that question, you will know what you will do to get to that place.

[Reinventing]

Amazinglove,

I'm glad you spoke your truth and it felt as the truth coming from you. Sometimes we need to say it, to call it out, even if it doesn't change what they do.

Kudos to you.