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Our Community / Re: The Dawn holds the heaviness of the Night
« Latest by Thunder on June 23, 2021, 03:14:17 PM »
Mitzpah thank you, I just wanted to say I so agree with you (and xyzcf).

I am very apposed to NC with you MLCer, unless they are being physically or emotionally abusive.  It depends on your situation, which is different with everyone.
Especially if you have young children.
There is no blanket solution for everyone.

If a person needs to go NC for awhile to regroup and get their sea legs under them, that's fine, but I do not think NC is a great idea for a long time, unless you no longer care about reconciling.   

I had a few people tell me to cut my MLCer off when he was going through his crisis...but he was not being abusive nor was there anyone ow involved.  It just sounded wrong to me.  He was a confused Wallower.  So with the exception of about a week, I kept communications open, but only by him initiating it.

So read the advice and make your own choice.  We will support you either way.
There will be members supporting NC and others who do not support that.
Do what is best for you.  Sometimes Dim or Dark are better choices for you.

Oh and welcome Jo.  You have found a soft place to land here.
Our Community / My Moving On Story Pt. 4 - New Horizons
« Latest by Thundarr on June 23, 2021, 12:55:04 PM »
Greetings all.  It's been over a month since my last post (hard to believe I used to post multiple times a day in the early days) and a lot of things have transpired over the past month, both good and bad but mostly good.

Starting with the bad, GF and I decided to call it quits at least for now and just be friends for the immediate future.  I think it was a combination of both of us jumping in a bit too quickly and neither being truly ready at the time.  As I've stated before it was for opposite yet same reasons as she had not been in a relationship for a long time and I was just coming out of one.  We still communicate every other day or so and have never had a cross word so maybe things will come back around but I'm not holding out hope.  I am surprisingly very much enjoying being single and free right now with no intention of dating anyone anytime soon, if ever.  Shortly after we broke things off my line of thinking was that this was it for me and that I never planned to date or be in a relationship again.  Now.......not so sure but not anytime soon.  The me-time has been great as has spending more time with my kids.  I also have been taking more time to do the things I enjoy and turning down extra on-call shifts at work so I'm not over-working myself.  Proud to say I think I'm doing all the right things and mostly proud of how well I handled the break-up and that I didn't make any big mistakes that would make me seem weak or clingy.  I've also taken the opportunity to truly work through the break-up with XF and feel that is mostly out of my system.  If I do end up dating or in another relationship, with former GF or someone else, at least I'll be a fully healed and more optimal version of me.

Which brings me to my recent health scare.  I had been having cancer symptoms for a couple months and when  my doctor finally got me scheduled with the specialist he stated that he wanted to get me in for tests ASAP so they were scheduled for the following week.  After a rigorous two days of testing and probing it was determined that I do NOT have cancer so we now look at other possibilities now that the bad ones have been ruled out.  I have to say the past couple months had me doing a lot of thinking about planning for my kids and my mother's welfare after I'm gone but now that I have a new lease on life so to speak I actually have to make future plans with me in them, lol!  At any rate it was a very sobering experience and made me do a lot of thinking about the hard truths of mortality and where I am in life as well as how I want to be remembered.  NOT having a midlife crisis as I came to the conclusion that I'm happy with my life and life choices and where I am in the world but I can definitely understand how someone would be driven to make drastic changes if they weren't.

Peace to you all.
Our Community / Rebuilding after Hurricane MLC
« Latest by Curiosity on June 23, 2021, 12:32:09 PM »
This is so helpful - I think we often struggle with the swinging pendulum effect. For example, we learn to detach and to be independent… but if we get into a new relationship or reconnect, how do we find a way to form healthy attachment and interdependence? We learn to not blindly trust someone the way some of us did with our spouses… but we also need to be able to trust our own judgment and the people around us who are trustworthy. We learn to observe and to be aware without over analyzing and holding expectations. Similarly, we learn to not be judgmental but we still have to use appropriate “judgment,” and it helps to think of this as discernment or evaluation, as others have said here.

For my part, I have tended to veer back and forth between clinging and angry detachment, placing preconditions on any theoretical reconnection, even when said reconnection seemed miles away. I have had the belief that even if we reconnect, it’s not really a new relationship because we have this history. But putting it in perspective, letting the history be background and letting the current situation guide my words and actions… it’s been a recipe for so much more calm and happiness. Even having gotten out of the habit of structured meditation, it seems like the mindfulness, the ability to be present in the moment, is something that has come with the mirror work of all this. And the compassionate communication bit has really been at the heart of it. It has benefited my relationships with family, friends, and with myself too - the benefit to my relationship with my W is only a part of it.
Our Community / Love and insanity
« Latest by Tornup on June 23, 2021, 10:52:10 AM »
Old pilot- More good information. I am like a sponge as all others in trying to heal and move on. I appreciate all the information.
Our Community / Cleaning Out the Garage
« Latest by Dumbfounded on June 23, 2021, 10:45:54 AM »
Thank you all.  It is so wonderful to come here and see the support because IRL I am getting "well, church is for sinners and she is a sinner and church is where she belongs".  She is also a psychopath according to my IC who I should limit contact with so there is that.  Is she repenting, is she sorry, is she looking to make amends? BIG, FAT NOPE.  I shall let the church go about the task of reforming this sinner without me.

My brother and family are here this week. So loads of hugs and hanging out while trying to work and get ready for the big road trip.  I am totally exhausted.

LB has been picking up contact with the kids so the outlaws must be headed North soon.  Always a good time when the outlaws are in town.

A friend and I were having a drink on the deck last week and my friend (also a lawyer) took a sip of her drink and looked at me and said - guess what the SPQ is doing? I said oh Lord, what?  She said studying for the bar exam.  And we both laughed ourselves out of our deck chairs.  Suckin fumes baby.       
Our Community / Rebuilding after Hurricane MLC
« Latest by Treasur on June 23, 2021, 10:43:23 AM »
Judgment vs discernment for me, Marvin, same point, just different words.
Aka by my grandmother (insert Manchester accent if able) as ‘not being so open minded that your brains fall out’  :)
Our Community / 7 years already?
« Latest by Dumbfounded on June 23, 2021, 10:18:40 AM »
Some of the best advice I got during the whole miserable divorce process was "nothing is forever".  And it is true for both the good and bad.  The only thing you can really count on is change.     
Our Community / BRAND NEW MAN 12
« Latest by Dumbfounded on June 23, 2021, 10:10:29 AM »
This is exactly why I don't date. I don't understand how I would find the time to devote to another new person.  I am thinking that three Tuesdays from now for a few hours is not going to work for most people looking for a relationship.   
Our Community / Rebuilding after Hurricane MLC
« Latest by Nas on June 23, 2021, 09:52:13 AM »

As far as the topic of NVC is concerned, I’m not sure we can explore the topic deeply in a forum setting.   I’d say it’s enough to introduce the topic and, who knows, one or two people may decide to dig deeper on their own. 

This is what I took from your post on the subject, that it seems like a worthwhile personal endeavor to learn more about NVC, and it's applicable in all human interaction, be it in an intimate relationship, friendships, the work environment, etcetera.
No one communicates perfectly all the time.  I too saw pieces of myself in your list of NVC traits; likely we all did to some degree.  I tend to have preconceived judgments about certain things, and especially when it comes to myself.
But one thing we all crave is connection - so something that helps improve communication in all my interactions is definitely worth exploring.

I have the book on my wish list (along with others that you and others have recommended) and look forward to eventually grabbing a copy.

The next part is why I found your post so valuable. I actually talked through the idea that "well if I don't use judgement how do I make decisions? How do I protect myself?" And my therapist helped me differentiate between JUDGEMENT and EVALUATION. Which is what I read in your post (please correct me if I am wrong). She laughed at me and said something to the order of giving up judgement doesn't mean we accept everything and can't say "this is not ok." She helped me realize that I could evaluate without emotional reaction, figure out each person and situation more clearly, then make decisions from the evaluation.

Marvin, we were cross posting so I almost missed this, but it's a great point.  As someone who is preconditioned to evaluate my surroundings at all times, I have realized that sometimes it looks like judgment on my part when really it's self-preservation.  But sometimes I was judging and justifying myself by calling it evaluation, which was my own issue I had to learn to (and am still learning) to work through.

Very interesting distinction, thanks for bringing this up, guys.
Our Community / Re: Rebuilding after Hurricane MLC
« Latest by marvin4242 on June 23, 2021, 09:42:12 AM »
As always a great insight and distinction. I will share that due to my FOO I had been around a lot of judgement, and had developed their lens of "judging" everything and everyone. It was so strong I didn't know that I was doing it. It was almost an autonomous response.

During my primary therapy I started to realize how much judgement was shaping ALL my views and interactions. It was keeping me from connecting, seeing people, and was part of my "black and white" thinking which is such a common part of being in certain disordered families. So as part of letting go of that black and white thinking I committed to letting go of ALL judgement. Boy that took a while. But I discovered HOW MUCH it changes EVERYTHING. I was freer to see things, to be more flexible, to be more empathetic, and I no longer see success vs failure, winning vs losing, friend vs enemy. It was like blinders were taken off and I have more than 2 choices.

The next part is why I found your post so valuable. I actually talked through the idea that "well if I don't use judgement how do I make decisions? How do I protect myself?" And my therapist helped me differentiate between JUDGEMENT and EVALUATION. Which is what I read in your post (please correct me if I am wrong). She laughed at me and said something to the order of giving up judgement doesn't mean we accept everything and can't say "this is not ok." She helped me realize that I could evaluate without emotional reaction, figure out each person and situation more clearly, then make decisions from the evaluation.

It is such a much freer way to exist. And eventually I may come to the same conclusion about something or someone whether I use judgement or evaluation, but I know my decision will not be reactive, will be in the present, and will most likely serve me better when its from evaluation.

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