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Author Topic: My Story Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...

j
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My Story Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#10: January 31, 2024, 02:35:07 PM
I don't think it is possible for someone to push another into crisis - especially not a loving spouse. I hope I didn't give that impression when I said that our needs often cause pressure - or that our (reasonable) distraction elsewhere  - created the crisis.  I don't think that at all.  I think it is a lack of certain emotional coping skills that causes the crisis. The root is often childhood trauma/FOO. So it is more like an accumulation of things causing a collapse. You know, like a bridge with a 'fault line'  that finally collapses under the sheer weight of (emotional) traffic.

In healthy, balanced relationships we understand the ebb and flow of life. That sometimes we share our partners with others - those dearest to us in times of need (in the same way they have given it to us in past). Yes, sometimes that support takes time away from our spouse, but that's a very normal occurrence (I think of all the friends that dropped everything for me in the wake of BD - how my family 'walked' with me for months and months). Yes, you are a good daughter. I expect you are a good wife too. Most of us were living with a depressed spouse quite a while before BD. But it is a hallmark of this type of crisis that they do not communicate their needs and often we only see this more clearly in hindsight. That's why it's a bomb. For us, it comes out of nowhere.  You can't fix it, no. But you didn't break it either. Try not to blame yourself, it's not your fault.

Thank you so much for this... it brought tears to my eyes as I read it. The despair I've been feeling over the past few weeks has been gut wrenching. I've lost 30lbs in 6 weeks and have only been sleeping every other night. I am seeing a therapist and have some medications, which is helping a little. I also joined a gym and have been leaning on my closest friends and family.

In retrospect I had absolutely no idea what was going on with him, and with my mom and then the third BD I was so distraught I completely lost it. When something like that happens it's easy to self blame and ruminate. Sometimes I think if I'd seen it and been more sympathetic I could have put it off a bit longer, but it likely would have eventually happened anyway. I have to remember that in those last weeks he was completely devoid of empathy and not the same person. I never thought something like this was possible. I miss him terribly.  :'(

And thank you for your lovely comments about being a good daughter and wife. I've been questioning my place in the world and thinking about what's next. It helps to see that kind of support. I'm so very grateful.
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j
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#11: January 31, 2024, 02:48:00 PM
. The root is often childhood trauma/FOO.

I know we say this a lot here at HS.  And it is true in a lot of MLCers.  But not always.  Busy Bee, a recovered MLCer here, stated she grew up in a happy home with family in tact she she had no explanation for why she had a MLC.  It just happened. 

So facing the shadow.  The demons?   If the MLCer doesn’t even know what caused it.  Yet they worked through it.  What’s really going on as it can’t all be FOO.

There were people in his family that had some addiction issues (not everyone), but he was working a program and other than that he seemed to have a normal upbringing. I do know he has a lot of shame for some reason. He kept mentioning that he didn't want to blame himself for anything anymore. That's when he started blaming me. And with the loss of faith it's almost like he let something loose he had been repressing for a long time. It was unrecognizable to me.
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H
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#12: January 31, 2024, 04:37:53 PM
The loss of faith is a big and deep issue that came along with my W's MLC too.  When someone's entire spiritual / world view changes, everything changes along with it.  When the "rules" and standards that a couple was living by are no longer agreed upon it causes a division down to the core of a relationship. It's a deeply painful and frustrating experience.  I'm so sorry you're going through this!
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#13: January 31, 2024, 11:50:18 PM
First of all, I am very sorry for the loss of your mother. What a hard few years you have had. And dealing with the aftermath of someone’s death as you doubtless still are is hard too, even without what your h has done. It’s very normal after a significant bereavement to feel as if life has been upended, to feel exhausted and not quite like oneself even when other things in life are ok….and of course that is not what is happening for you right now, is it? So, please be very kind and realistic with yourself about how you feel. It’s a hard time on the back of hard times….but this time too shall pass….but you may find you have to metaphorically triage how you use your energy for a while, and intentionally take extra care of the basics right now. Go small, slow and steady, baby steps, a day at a time for a little while. Avoid anything that makes you feel much worse unless there is an overpowering reason to do it. Ask for help from those who care about you where you can. And if anything makes you feel 1% better - doesn’t matter what it is as long as it is not harmful to you or others - do more of that. Your job right now is simply to outlast this hard season of your life until you get to a calmer, sunnier shore, that’s it.

Imho, folks come here asking about MLC primarily for two reasons. Or a blend of both. Either looking for hope that if it’s MLC there is a path they can plot towards a predictable happier outcome soon. Or to try to regain some sense of their own reality, that they are not crazy or to blame for something they find completely inexplicable. It sounds as if right now you are looking more for the latter?

Take a breath. You know who you are. Truly you do, most of us do. Warts and all lol. You know what is in your wheelhouse as a person, as a wife, a daughter, a friend. What you could imagine yourself doing in certain circumstances. And what you could not. It’s important to trust that regardless of what anyone else might say. And really important if they have an agenda that is served by your confusion or doubt about it. So, take another breath, and remind yourself of who you know you are.

Again jmo but, regardless of the reasons why, folks who do what your h has done and is doing have an internal black hole. A kind of neediness. And usually in a long term relationship, with hindsight, we see a million ways - big and small - in which we kept that hole filled and provided a kind of scaffolding. It is not at all uncommon here, as others have said, that the metaphorical lid blows off these people at a time when life circumstances mean that the LBS’s energies are needed elsewhere…a troubled child, a sick parent, a demanding job or even an LBS illness. Something that means it’s not all centred on them. Something that requires deep difficult adulting in a marriage. But something normal in the ebb and flow of a shared life. And poof, they implode. Or explode. And usually run off to try to find something else to hang their happy hat on while, perhaps unconsciously, rather resenting the LBS’s ‘failure’ to keep that show on the road. Just like you said he used to be close to your mother ‘until her needs became too much for him’? Think of it like that, just like that….the fault did not rest with your mother but the lacking capacity in your h, that ‘her (understandable) needs’ were ‘too much’……..

All of which is to say that you are no more responsible for this than you were responsible for your mother’s illness. You have done your best with both situations, but there are simply things in life that are beyond your pay grade and not in your control and not your fault. Your h had a bunch of choices he did not choose…..and that’s about him, not about you. He may find it easier to believe what he is saying right now, he may even believe it….but that does not make it true or accurate. Like a guy with a tinfoil hat who comes up to you in the park shouting about aliens….his truth does not need to be your truth, you simply have to accept that, for reasons beyond your comprehension, he is a shouting man in a tinfoil hat.

So, the most important thing right now is to focus on getting some stable solid sane ground under your own metaphorical feet. It sounds as if you have support from people who care about you and some professional support, that’s good. Have you consulted a lawyer about your rights and obligations where you live? You don’t have to jump into action but, not unlike you did when you were caring for your ill mother, information can be useful. And you are probably going to have to keep reminding yourself that your h is not in the pool of resources that can help you right now….thats a strange thing to process after a long shared life, I know, but at a simple level, the one who is hurting us can rarely be the one who helps us heal. And imho vice versa.

It is a time to dig deep in caring for yourself with the same grace, kindness and commitment that you have shown in caring for others. And for many of us, that takes a bit of getting used to, doesn’t it?  :)

Sadly, based on anecdotes here, and your h does sound pretty textbook MLCish, things will possibly get worse and more incomprehensible before they get better. Big BDs tend to be followed by a series of smaller BDs, one WTF after another bc these folks have usually hidden some muck under their life rug before the lid blows off. And they have become accustomed to compartmentalising and lying and blaming and avoiding. In a sense, the LBS is playing catch up for a while….affairs, missing money, addictions, all kinds of weird stuff can come out in the wash. And that can be deeply shocking too. There’s a kind of surreal level of entitlement in folks like this post BD, a rage almost and an Instinct to gaslight people as a distraction from rather ugly realities which can be very disorientating to deal with. Which is another reason why legal advice is a good idea tbh.

I remember that the slow process of acceoting some of the reality of the spouse in front of your nose was a deeply painful process. Bc it makes no sense and bc, of course, one does not want to see it. One of the most useful phrases I remember tripping over was in a podcast by a psychiatrist who specialises in dealing with personality disorders….she said ‘well, who does that?’ It helped me hang on to my own sense of what was normal for normal people and it helped me gradually adjust to the reality that people who could do what my then h was doing were profoundly ‘off’ in some way that was beyond my comprehension. Who does that? A person who is deeply disordered for reasons I can’t get was usually my answer…..but it taught me to slowly change what I expected to see and that helped me get some solid ground under my feet. (Similar circumstances to yours with family illness and bereavements)

Which is also why that sense of solid ground under your own mental feet is so important. Even if it just starts with a square inch.  ::)
Do whatever you need to do to build and protect that bit of ground. Trust who you are. Teach yourself to see what belongs to you on your side of the street and what doesn’t.  What you can control and what you can’t. Rinse and repeat.

What do you see as the priority for action for you right now, my friend?
How can we best support you?

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 12:13:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

R
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#14: February 01, 2024, 12:32:18 AM
Quote
In a sense, the LBS is playing catch up for a while….affairs, missing money, addictions, all kinds of weird stuff can come out in the wash. And that can be deeply shocking too. There’s a kind of surreal level of entitlement in folks like this post BD, a rage almost and an Instinct to gaslight people as a distraction from rather ugly realities which can be very disorientating to deal with

Yes, I agree. This was my experience. And gaslighting leading up to BD.
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T
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#15: February 01, 2024, 01:18:34 AM
Just nodding along in recognition -- my experience was also that things kept coming out in the wash, as treasur says.  And also that the big BD came after my attention was "diverted" by children with special needs. 

I'm sorry you are going through this, but this forum is a great place to be, there is good advice here.  Treasur has written beautifully about it.
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j
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#16: February 01, 2024, 06:55:11 AM
What do you see as the priority for action for you right now, my friend?
How can we best support you?

I woke up this morning and read this... thank you for posting. It makes me feel less alone. I think that is the worst thing right now - the rumination and self blame that is keeping me from moving forward. I'm trying not to internalize everything, but there is some truth in a lot of the things he said. I know there are issues we should have worked through long ago, but for him, it's "too little, too late."

Bringing up things long past, arguments or petty things that I've apologized profusely for, or even mannerisms of mine that I didn't know bothered him. Then there are the things that I know are ridiculous. For example, last year I fell down the stairs and bruised my back pretty badly. He had friends coming that weekend and had to cancel. He accused me of throwing myself down the stairs to isolate him.

I spend a lot of time trying to rationalize what happened, which I know isn't healthy.

Along with the hurtful and vile words I've heard:
"I don't want to be married anymore"
"I just want to be alone"
"Our marriage is a failure, let's just let it fail"
"I don't love you romantically anymore"
"I'm not attracted to you"
"If I knew what I know now I never would have dated you"

Which, after 23 years, makes it easier to assume MLC is a big part this.

I know it isn't realistic, but if this is a MLC a part of me sincerely does hope there is a future with him, but based on the emotional shutdown and the way he isn't communicating at all unless I reach out I doubt it's possible. Do they ever come back from this? The other night he told me he wants to be single. So I'm left processing the soul crushing spew and wondering if I'm to blame for my marriage ending. One thing that keeps running through my mind is when he said he no longer wants to blame himself or "squash" his feelings, and unloaded all the reasons why he's been miserable for 20 years.

The internal black hole makes sense. On some level he's always been looking for something more. At one point, we were moving around so much, we lived in 5 states in 6 years. We moved back to my hometown to help my mother two years ago, but I guess he wasn't done. He also mentioned multiple times that I'm a walking crisis (I can't handle stressful jobs, minor health issues, etc.) He mentions these things and says he doesn't want to deal with my BS anymore.

I don't think he's had a physical affair, unless he did on one of the rare business trips he took. There is a part of me that wonders if he reconnected with or met someone online a few months ago (when his behavior really started changing). I also want to mention, and this may be TMI, but he got angry after being intimate before he left - that's when he made the vile comments about being embarrassed to be seen with me and taunted and mocked me about my weight. It was almost as if he'd betrayed someone and wanted to hurt me. The sad fact is, he moved across the country, and because we don't have children, I may never learn of these things. Maybe it's a blessing.

I don't want a divorce, but I have consulted a lawyer. I have him on retainer for when the time comes (we agree to postpone until the spring). I have a pretty good idea what my rights are. The challenge for me is deciding if I want to prolong this situation and risk losing anything. My husband is a high earner, and has always been trustworthy, but you never know.

I guess the biggest struggle for me right now is deciding if this really is about my flaws (again, there is some truth in what he's said), or if it truly is MLC. If I assume he did reconnect with someone and that it's MLC it's easier for me to process, but there is always the possibility that he is just done with me, for whatever reason. The possibility that I am to blame for ruining my marriage kills me. But it does comfort me to hear it sounds like textbook MLC.

I am working on things I can control, and doing my best to take care of myself, but I'm still very distracted trying to rationalize what happened. It's all consuming. Are there tools to try stop this negative thought pattern?

And based on my story, should I have any hope?


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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#17: February 01, 2024, 07:47:39 AM
I’m going to treat you like a grown up, albeit a rather wounded one right now, and respond to your last question first.
Based on anecdotal evidence here, very few marriages survive this scale of destruction. Partly imho bc MLC goes on for a long time - years not months - and leaves a lot of damage to be repaired. Partly bc the very things we LbS have to do to survive it changes our lens on what we are prepared to work with and what we are not.
But some do. A few. I don’t know if yours will be one of them. Neither do you. And tbh reconciliation is not an easy path either for either party. The good news is that the toolbox you will develop to survive this will be just as useful either way.

I can see that you are still (understandably) at the stage where you are struggling to not place undue weight on his words and attempts to blame you. Easier to see the BS from the cheap seats over here lol. But to help, I want to pull out one example, when you fell down the stairs. I want you to take a breath, take a moment, and think who on earth would say that? Even conceive of it?, how weird a pov is that? (Unless you have a history you have not shared yet of dramatic self harming bids for attention or Machiavellian levels of manipulation - which you probably don’t) would that have been amongst your first thoughts if the roles had been reversed? Or to be more concerned about changing your social plans than any possible injury your spouse might have suffered? Don’t get me wrong - I’m not suggesting you obsess about his mindset in that moment - I’d just like you to take a step back far enough to see how weird and how uncaring and self centred a pov it was.

I would also encourage you to trust your instincts about the possibility of an ow/owomen. None of us want to think that, most of us initially come up with reasons why it’s not the case. But sometimes when a duck quacks like an unfaithful duck, the simplest reason turns out to be true. It may not be….but imho it would almost be surprising if someone with your h’s recent sense of neediness and entitlement were not having some kind of external affirmation. And his behaviour is pretty MLC textbook, and affairs sadly are part of that textbook. The truth tends to come out so I wouldn’t snoop for it too much, just be prepared for it. If it is so, I don’t know how that would affect your attitude to potential reconciliation. And tbh they always affair down so sometimes hook up with ow types who bring their own dysfunction to the party….which can mean that any conversation with your h is also being influenced by the agenda of an unseen third party…and it can be a good reason for divorcing sooner rather than later from a financial PoV. And sadly a good reason too for STD testing, sorry.

This stage of the MLC game sucks, there is no way past that.
But we will be here anyway, however you decide to approach it.
But please start letting the BS wash over you and down the plughole. Whatever shame there is to feel, whatever lies have been told, whatever cruelty and devaluing has been unleashed, it isn’t yours. There is nothing  earth shatteringly wrong with you, dear girl….but a husband who thinks his wife threw herself down the stairs to limit his social life is more than a bit ‘off’. Jmo.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

j
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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#18: February 01, 2024, 10:50:34 AM
This stage of the MLC game sucks, there is no way past that.
But we will be here anyway, however you decide to approach it.
But please start letting the BS wash over you and down the plughole. Whatever shame there is to feel, whatever lies have been told, whatever cruelty and devaluing has been unleashed, it isn’t yours. There is nothing  earth shatteringly wrong with you, dear girl….but a husband who thinks his wife threw herself down the stairs to limit his social life is more than a bit ‘off’. Jmo.

Thank you, Treasur, for the thoughtful and candid response. I absolutely know he's crazy for thinking I could do such a thing. To add to the crazy, he has said he fell out of love with me when it happened (but he said it multiple times blaming other scenarios). And yes, if it had happened to him, I would have been there at his side and forgotten about it after recovery, rather than seething with resentment six months later. I know he's not right in the head.

As for the ow/women, after talking to friends and family with more experience in cheating, I am fairly certain there is something going on. There was a shift in seeming sad and conflicted and saying things like "I don't want to lose you" or "I just want everything to be okay" to "I'm allowed to make mistakes" or "I may come back with my tail between my legs." He would also say things that were out of character, like "you denied me pleasure" or "this is just one of the many ways you crushed my dreams." Those weren't his words and I know it. After that he became narcissistic and started vilifying.

Once it got really bad, I couldn't take it and responded with horrible things, too.

I am taking care to protect the financial assets we share (luckily most of it is separate).

The reason I say I may never know is that I don't talk to his family anymore, nor am I on social media. And I don't plan to be, until I feel comfortable. It is highly likely that in a few months, once I'm employed and in a place where we can sell the house, he will have to come back to help me with it. He did pack up everything of his and put it into storage, "disentangling" himself from our life together, so he will probably take care of that at the same time. If I do find anything out, it will probably be then. Somehow it comforts me that they affair down (probably because there is a fair chance it will eventually blow up on him), but I do dread the idea of him bringing anyone with him. It's likely a certainty, so maybe I should buckle up.

I sincerely thank you for the response. I'm very grateful for the support.
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 11:34:40 AM by jmnab »

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Confused and wondering if I should have any hope...
#19: February 01, 2024, 11:50:51 AM
You are very welcome x

As my gran used to say ‘don’t trouble trouble until trouble troubles you’ in terms of worrying about him showing up with ow down the line if you end up getting to selling the house.

You have enough to focus on right now now and no way to know yet how things will unfold. My then h was a vanisher by that point….i packed everything up, could barely get him to sign the estate agents paperwork  ::) And if he did? Well, you can always just say No to anything that you find unacceptable, right? If there is an ow, she is in his life….you are not obliged to allow her space in yours  :)
So, focus on what’s in front of you right now. You can deal with tomorrow’s troubles when and if you need to later!
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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