[xyzcf]

The reasons he gave for wanting to end the marriage really had nothing to do with me,

Thank you Thunder.

I totally believe that MLC is NOT a marriage issue, so what am I to apologize for?

We were married 32 years. The one time he responded to my question why..he said I was "too intense and I talked too much". That was my divorceable offence.

I'm now taking full accountability of even the slightest of mistakes never voiced aloud.

A healthy relationship would be one that any "mistakes" made would have been explored and apologies given at the time...to look back over 20 years and identify each wrong word or action doesn't make any sense to me...relationships need work, we did it for 32 years, we resolved issues all the time throughout those years.....until MLC hit and then there was no room for my input....none at all.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Whoa.... Let's roll back the talk quite a bit as I see talk about forgiveness and other stuff creeping in....

Making an apology (or not making) is about one person, in this case LBS.

Accepting or rejecting that apology is the act of another person, in this case MLC. And it results into forgiveness or unforgiveness. But that is not in hands of LBS, so why even  discuss it (apart of maybe acknowledging that withholding forgiveness is same as drinking poison and hoping other person to die).

If we allow this talk to protrude to cover both sides making both actions, then this talk has no limits, and turns into another endless talk.

But let's focus on just what the LBS can control. Our apology.   Did you apologize your past mistakes (as I'm sure the process has made you aware of perspectives and approaches you never thought). Yes/no, and why?

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I have started to post and then deleted again. I really thought things through. I don't think you need to apologize at all. The number of mistakes and issues you have done over the course of a 20 year marriage is huge. Are you going to try and identify each one and apologize for each omission? Your own confession with your wife as a priest?

In my opinion, and this is one hundred percent Ready intuition, no research, no evidence at all, from the MLCer's point of view, your apology would only serve to justify her actions and mindset.

My advice is that now is not the time to apologize. Either thank her for all the good times and your children or nothing at all. Focus on you and the children. The less you talk to her now, the better for both of you.

Be good to yourself,

((((Ready))))

[AlvinTheMaker]

Ready - Maybe the bygones should remain bygones, but at least my life has proven time and again that unfinished business easily comes back to bite your ass  at later life (having a good reminder of that with tooth that should have been removed some 35 yes back). None of the mistakes that happen in normal marriage make a life sentence - unless we allow them to become as such in our heads (that is a trap I think some have fallen).

Assuming this goes the same way as it has gone with few testballs I have thrown so far,  W not responding to apology in any way (silent way to reject apology, or maybe fear of responding in effort not to engage, or something else), what is the worst that can happen?

If I withhold my apology, then I'd be drinking the poison for acting in way that is ungenuine to me. That does not sound smart to me. If I go ahead with my apology, then I'm cleaning my side of street and can move on with life. End of story.

If I would begin thinking W's side (which is not my business) she does not even need my apology to forgive. Or to come up with new reasons where I failed. But the act of  receiving apology may change unforgiveness (drinking poison and hoping other to die) into forgiveness over time ( it could be positive if she allows it, but it is her task). And she definitely does not need to respond to apology (though it would be good manners).


And true, W's not my priest... But she is the one I have offended randomly with my "misbehaviour". She has right to walk off, say stop or set up whatever boundary she wishes in order for not to receive my apologies (and then my role would be to honor that boundary). But is is not my right or task to set up such boundary for her behalf.

Maybe this makes sense, maybe not....

Alvin

[Ready2Transform]

If you've got it in your mind you're going to do this, then you're going to. I am one of the I'm sure many who apologized pre- and post- divorce to my spouse for any and all transgressions I could think of. Some in a bargaining panic, some not. 9 years out from BD, I absolutely should have just kept that to myself or taken it into the healing process as I've done everything else. Even *he* apologized for some things (sorry, not remorse - important). My apologies helped confirm to him that he was doing the right thing by leaving me, and though he was "sorry he hurt me" - he regretted nothing. Still does not, even though his life is wack. Even if it's "for you" - I can guarantee there will likely be some shock and disappointment at how they receive these apologies. It doesn't make you look like a good guy - it allows you to be the fall guy. But...do what you have to. There's learning in all of it.

[Ggg4life]

Alvin-

I'm in agreement now is not the time she wants to talk.  For me, before ex left... After giving him the chance (like we do) to stay and work on it (not understanding the beast we were dealing with), I had to accept he was going freely.  He's not a prisoner. I told him I forgive him for feeling he needed to destroy the family in order to be set free.  I said, I'm sorry you felt you couldn't talk to me or desired to work on this marriage. I'm sorry you didn't value us enough to stop.  I'm sorry if I failed you in this marriage, however I am not saying I accept blame for your affair, cruelties, etc.  Those were done without regard for our marriage.  It was your free will to abuse or love us.  I wish you would have made better choices, but you are forgiven. Not approving or condoning ANY of this.  You'll have your own crosses to bear.  I wish you well.

Forgiveness was for me to release the bitterness, etc.  Yes, on my journey it would surface again in my emotions.  Then I would be reminded did I truly want to be free and forgive? Or was I controlling outcomes? It's a choice and a process.   I remembered in our marriage all the times he lovingly forgave me.  Who was I not to set him free that way.  As I knew if I wanted forgiveness from God, it would start with me taking ownership.  I believe no marriage is perfect.  It can be a culmination of bad choices that they use as an excuse.  There is no excuse for any of it.  The fact is the mistakes still happened. The manner in which they dealt with them are not on us.

IMHO, If my teen daughter did something horrible by poor choices to someone including me, I would still love her and forgive her, even if I don't approve of what she's done. At that point, it's her mess to clean up. Her accountability to deal with. It's not my problem to get stuck in her mess. Only she can work it out.  My boundaries in love are set, but I will not enable or approve of bad or destructive behavior.  Then it's on me. 

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but it's my truth.. Sometimes,life is the best teacher no matter how old we are. 

[forthetrees]

Since then h was (and still is) conflict avoidant, he only brought up his list of slights on the way out the door. I thought them over and apologized for the ones that I thought were valid. When I say avoidant I mean things that happened decades ago that only came to light upon BD and the months after. So yes, I did apologize b/c I did not know until that point that those things had caused him harm. Of course had I known when they happened, I would have apologized then. No, he did not apologize for anything. I was surprised in the moment of the conversation when I said my apologize and then got dead air. He has never since apologized either. I like to live without regret and I try not to cause others harm so an apology on my part allows me to be in congruence with my values.

To thy own self be true.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

but at least my life has proven time and again that unfinished business easily comes back to bite your ass  at later life (having a good reminder of that with tooth that should have been removed some 35 yes back).

The hardest point I had to accept, to acknowledge was that there would always be unfinished business between myself and my ex no matter what. I sought and wanted permanent closure. The end of the road, the end of the chapter, to erase the dangling modifier and make the sentence complete. Ten years down the road, still unfinished business, a project that will never end.

I am a man of action. Decisive and to the point. You spoke of control, and you are right, we only control ourselves. The hardest thing is to control ourselves to do nothing.

In the end, Alvin- it is your choice. if you want to apologize to your STBX, go for it. The question you posed to the forum was if I apologized for my mistakes in the marriage and my response was no, I did not. Not at the time of the divorce. Years later, we both acknowledged and apologized to each other and it really meant something- at least for me. However, it did not bring complete closure- it just made things a lot easier.

((((Ready)))))

[3longyrs]

Did you apologize your past mistakes (as I'm sure the process has made you aware of perspectives and approaches you never thought). Yes/no, and why?

I did Alvin...I tried to apologize to my w in the beginning after the last bd before she moved out,but as we now know,she wanted no part of it...I went through my own transition before my w's crisis,did and said a lot of things that I needed to atone for ...I said things to friends,the kids,others in the family and after a while of learning through this process I saw that it was needed for ME...

Only after my wife made the turn toward home did I try again...and it was excepted as hers to me was...They will not be receptive in the beginning of the crisis because no matter what you say gets twisted to fuel that rebellion...Only after they begin to look inside will they ever hear a true apology...thats my opinion ...

[Thunder]

Alvin, you asked..."Did you apologize your past mistakes (as I'm sure the process has made you aware of perspectives and approaches you never thought). Yes/no, and why??

My answer was:

Did I apologize to him for anything?  No
I never felt I did anything to apologize for.  I did not want this divorce, he did.
Was I a perfect wife, oh heck no.  He was not a perfect husband either.
I made a lot of mistakes in our marriage over the years, but I already apologized for them at the time.
He made mistakes too.  That was all in the past.

But you know everyone is different.  Alvin if you feel the need to apologize to her then you should.
At this point it is entirely up to you how you want to end things.