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1
Our Community / Re: Love & Hate
« Latest by marvin4242 on Today at 01:12:36 PM »
JB: I think the basic principles you refer to are sound, they are a very good high level view of what is going on at MLC and a good guide to start with. I personally have a more complex view of MLC. It is a psychological fracture. It is a MAJOR psychological event. It has no "process," no simple rules, no timelines and no guaranteed recovery. The person we knew falls apart in a sense and is swimming in a world of pain, anxiety, confusion and disassociation. I used the analogy of someone lost on a hall of mirror elsewhere, where everyone else is just a two dimensional cardboard cut out. We all become objects to the person in crises, they retreat into a state of narcissism as a mode of coping. Action and consequence decouple and they construct realities to deal with the pain. And the normal functions of memory are no longer really at play.

With that in mind to me the idea of "standing up" for oneself is really not relevant. That is different than protecting oneself, whether its from going NC or dark, or detaching, or GAL or all the ways we must separate, take our focus off ours MLCer and try to heal and move on. I am five years out, really have not been looking at my wife's behaviour, and have been living my life for easily four of those years now. So my reaction is very different, I feel a lot of empathy for her and the whole thing was kind of sad for me. I could tell the pain and turmoil she was in. This in NO WAY accounts for or excuses her behaviour, but her comments really did not hit me if that makes sense.

I would not suggest anything like this for newbies or for people who are not yet fully detached and have their full boundaries up. I was sharing to show how it is easy in the early days (and by early I mean years) to still try to ascribe positive or hopeful motivation to actions that we can not possible comprehend.
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Our Community / Love & Hate
« Latest by JohnnyBravo on Today at 12:34:45 PM »
Nas, you must have forgotten to write something, because that was much less dark than I was expecting. :) Seemed very practical to me.

The only other aspect is if you believe the idea that the "real" spouse is imprisoned inside the MLC. That persona may hear things and remember them, but in the here and now, it's irrelevant. (I think that's one of the reasons why I prefer polite responses when appropriate vs. the truth darts.) But in any scenario, if someone is being a jerk to you, standing up for yourself is always the right answer.

(Well, maybe not if you've been pulled over by the police...)

Sorry you had such a crazy experience, Marvin. But it sounds like you handled it smoothly. And happy birthday!

JB



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Our Community / Father's Day Continues
« Latest by Standing Strong on Today at 10:35:02 AM »
Oh yeah..... when the mind is overloaded, absolutely.

(For me) the 1st year was full of that.  :)

I agree with Torn, when that happens getting away and focusing on something like walking was very helpful (for me).

-SS
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Our Community / MLC husband's real issues
« Latest by Nas on Today at 07:30:43 AM »
I think regression does play some role early on, but I would caution against thinking too much about it.
I'll share this with you: before and around BD, my former husband played a song called "Bent to Fly" over and over and over and over. The lyrics are about a young man leaving home.
He ranted endlessly about how he had wanted to go away to college and his mother made him go to a college within a few hours driving distance of his childhood home. And he vacillated between being over the top angry about that (decades later) and commenting that it turned out to be good because his father died just after he graduated from college and he had all those years closer to home where he saw his dad more. There was a thought process going on there that I couldn't have had any real idea about and still don't.

His affair partner is a woman he went to high school with - not an ex-girlfriend, just someone a grade below him who shared friends in common and he knew all through school.
The day he left me (after being an emotionally abusive live in for way too long) he was humming "Bent to Fly" the entire time he packed his things. He had a brief stint of moving home to his childhood bedroom before quitting his job and moving over 1000 miles away with his affair partner. For several months at first, he lived in a tiny apartment on a college campus, across the street from a fraternity house - it was the college he'd wanted to go to but didn't because his mother didn't want him to. It's the college his girlfriend (OW) did go to.

So in early days I watched him doing a complete rewrite of his life, erasing me, choosing instead someone he knew before me, making the choices he wished he'd made before he met me. It absolutely crushed me in ways I won't describe because I don't want to remember those feelings, honestly. But I'm sharing with you to say I understand, and that no matter what, it's not about you. He was with you back when he was young and he may look like he's trying to take a "do over" but it's not a reflection on you or the life you had with him - it's a purely pathologically self-absorbed tunnel he's in where he can only see himself.  It took a while for me to see that it wasn't about me and his actions weren't at all normal (my therapist at the time said it sounded like a complete breakdown - it's normal for people to have regrets from time to time, but this is something more akin to psychosis).
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Our Community / Re: Love & Hate
« Latest by Nas on Today at 07:11:44 AM »


Well shockingly she spent most of the time ignoring me, and then started throwing very pointed and unpleasant jabs at me. She kept saying things like how I am going to spend my birthday with the "misses" and even at some point when I decided it was time to politely excuse myself she said "yes why don't you go home to the misses."

...

My main point here is this: someone else may think this is about "jealousy" or how its a sign she is waking up, etc etc. I personally do not believe any of that, that would be a waste of time. I believe this is about her fantasy/delusion being shaken. I imagine she believes she is so great that I would always be in love with her, be there always. So the idea that I may choose not to spend time with her may shake that. And that is what she is reacting to. Its not a sign of anything other than another indication of the state she has been in since all this started. It means nothing, analyzing or reacting to any of this is a fools errand.

A jealous woman is such an unappealing thing - the first part, where she requested to meet up only to ignore you in large part, and then was making the jabs about "the mrs" did strike me as green tinged, but in a "my ego is bruised" kind of way.

BUT...
I'm in full agreement with you that it's all still a part of the fantasy/delusion. (Fair warning, I've been having a black hole of the soul so I hope I don't bring you or anyone else way down to where I am - I'm going to try not to be too pessimistic here  ;)) I was thinking recently that the thing that I've personally found most hurtful about all of what's gone down is the way I was treated like an inanimate object, some *thing* that he acquired, like all the other *things* that he uses to validate his "importance" or "specialness" as a man. And when a thing ceases to make him feel special anymore, or rather, when it ceases to make him appear uniquely special to others, it's disposed of: technology, cars, designer labels...me.  With all *things*, there's eventually an upgrade that promises to reflect better on him.

Now, that's what I think about MY situation - enough about that. When I read your updates and the updates of many others, I think something similar but different. I still believe the spouse in crisis interacts with the LBS as though the LBS is merely an object, or sometimes maybe a character in their fantasy world, one that should be pliable and moved around at the in-crisis person's will. But...

I imagine she believes she is so great that I would always be in love with her, be there always. So the idea that I may choose not to spend time with her may shake that. And that is what she is reacting to

Just a thought: this may be her reaction during times when she's feeling relatively okay or good about herself. The ego gets dinged because you are supposed to be the man she always knew, the one who treated her like she was special. How could you not be making her feel special anymore??
Then I imagine there's times where she doesn't feel so great about herself and in those times, instead of a sort of arrogant "believing she's so great you'll always be in love with her" she likely feels a jolt of self-pitying (or maybe just sad without the self-pity, who knows) "oh f**k, I used to feel special with this man and now I don't and what if I never have that again?"

Either way, as you say, it's all about her and her feelings and how you make her feel (or don't make her feel, as the case may be), but nothing about you as an actual human being with needs and feelings. I think I'm just repeating a version of what you already said, but I say this for all LBS reading along: (Until there's UNDENIABLY CLEAR signs of some form of remorse/amends for past behavior) Analyzing words and actions is an endless hamster wheel, because the LBS does not matter to their in-crisis/WAS spouse except in terms of what they make the in-crisis spouse feel at a given moment in time. And what purpose the LBS serves in one given moment, or what feeling they elicit, may differ at another given moment. It may be petty jealousy at one moment, foot stomping tantrum-y obstinance in another moment. The only constant is that it's all about them.

Anyway, just a ramble with my coffee here (and I probably forgot to say part of what I initially came here to say). Wishing you a fabulous, peaceful birthday.  :)
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Our Community / You Can't Touch This
« Latest by Tornup on Today at 06:44:42 AM »
My XH is not on social media and his OW has me blocked. I have never seen her in person or them together. It is a huge blessing in disguise. I think I would have to completely get off of social media if that were not the case. In some ways not seeing it also probably hinders a bit as well on recovery. What you don't see than doesn't seem as real. A relationship that was started under a veil of lies and destruction of a family would however never not be a bit of a trigger. Period!
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Our Community / Father's Day Continues
« Latest by Tornup on Today at 06:13:16 AM »
Many times!!! Those are the times I drop everything and out my ear pods in and walk my street listening to music. It is the only thing that works.
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Our Community / Love & Hate
« Latest by Tornup on Today at 06:10:53 AM »
My first instinct was pure jealousy. You’re not where she left you. How dare you!!! , but like you I have come to realize there is no point in trying to figure out or analyze their behavior, because as long as it is not rational behavior who knows what any of it means.

She clearly didn’t see your undying devotion for her and she did not like it. No one wants to lose the love and admiration of someone. Even if… they don’t return it. It’s a hard thing to find. I do think she see’s that, but apparently still not grown enough to express it or embrace it now or may never.
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Our Community / Re: Love & Hate
« Latest by marvin4242 on Today at 04:16:38 AM »
I have generally decided there its not useful to document much that happens because its all noise. I do not believe that MLCers, who are disordered, have much motivation, rhyme or reason for what they do and any and all external behaviour analysis is just us projecting our wishes and hopes on them. It may be normal initially but hopefully we all move on from that and no longer even really look.

But I wanted to share this little bit as an illustration. My wife reached out to me for us to have dinner on my upcoming birthday with a mutual friend. She knows very well I am in a relationship with someone else, and she is here with me. So obviously it is much more likely I will spend time on my birthday with my partner, and the fact that two of them will not be meeting means this is not likely. So I thanked her for her offer and declined. But she did want the three of us (me, her and our mutual friend) to go to dinner some other time, which we did.

Well shockingly she spent most of the time ignoring me, and then started throwing very pointed and unpleasant jabs at me. She kept saying things like how I am going to spend my birthday with the "misses" and even at some point when I decided it was time to politely excuse myself she said "yes why don't you go home to the misses."

Obviously I said nothing (truth darts imho are not useful, may make us feel better, but they are simply cruel and don't really do anything). I smiled, excused myself and left as my friend was staring at me across the table wide eyed. She and I had a chat the next day where she said "well I am never doing that again!" I even asked her for a reality check to see if I have not noticed something about myself and she confirmed that it was all her.

My main point here is this: someone else may think this is about "jealousy" or how its a sign she is waking up, etc etc. I personally do not believe any of that, that would be a waste of time. I believe this is about her fantasy/delusion being shaken. I imagine she believes she is so great that I would always be in love with her, be there always. So the idea that I may choose not to spend time with her may shake that. And that is what she is reacting to. Its not a sign of anything other than another indication of the state she has been in since all this started. It means nothing, analyzing or reacting to any of this is a fools errand.
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Our Community / Father's Day Continues
« Latest by 5hilmerton on Today at 04:10:57 AM »
Do you ever have the day, week....where your thoughts just jump from one thing to another???
Lately i have not been able to stay focused on too much.  If i am reading i am thinking about something else and must read the same sentence or paragraph over and over.  If i am writing i find myself writing what's in my thoughts and not the topic i should be writing about. Thank goodness i read before i push send.

I am not thinking about H or what he's up to, it's really everything but.  Not to say i do not think about H but he's not my first thought or what's clouding my mind. I feel like lately i just cannot let all that is around me happen and then move on.  Another early morning here with me just trying to calm the brain that does not allow me to shut down and rest.  I wonder if this my way of keeping a lid on a boiling pot.  I don't feel angry just concerned about everything and everyone around me.

Just my early morning ramble
5hil

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