[Dragonfly33]

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12008.150

I just wanted to clear my part regarding the NC since some seemed to be offended by this topic. This is just my opinion and I mentioned this a couple of times already. Some people here can do well with continuing to have contact with their MLCer in a healthy way. What I mean about "healthy way" is that you are capable being caught up in a crazy rollercoaster of emotions yourself while being friendly/civil with the MLC spouse. And I totally respect that and in fact I am amazed how they do it because from my experience I couldn't do it. When my xH was still living with me, I was a total wreck psychologically and emotionally because I cycled a lot and I had a lot of expectations. When they weren't met, I was frustrated and or furious. And even at the start of my MLC journey, when I moved out from our home, my xh continued to contact me telling me how he loved me but also doing the opposite. That wasn't healthy for me because I was hurt a lot. I was constantly in the confused state and it affected my work and my mental health.
Some advised me to keep my distance and reduced contact which probably at that time was a good thing to do. However, I didn't listen. I followed my feelings. I was so enmeshed in the MLC situation that both me and my xh were actually in a limbo. After I kicked out my xh and he stopped contacting me (because he was busy with a new supply), after a long while of no contact, only then I realized what a crazy rollercoaster I was in. I slowly learned to accept that I couldn't control him nor the situation he was in. I started to accept that I couldn't influence his actions. He would do whatever he liked whether I was around or not because he felt entitled to do those things and he was just not capable of being a loyal and honest husband to me. When I got the card from him this year on my birthday, I knew I cannot be in contact with him still because even just that card, it sent me back into limbo land. It took me a month to find my composure again that I worked so hard to achieve.  So I know, for me personally, NC worked well. But that doesn't mean that everybody should do NC. Like what Treasur said, we should respect the decisions of others.

As for the newbies, I think they will find out along the way what works for them. I've had people telling me the same thing that NC is the only way when I was a newbie. And I didn't follow their advise. I continued my way until I realized in the end what worked for me best.

As for my xh, he wasn't a bad man. I don't think so. He had good qualities but he wasn't the God sent husband either. He did a number of things in the past that weren't very respectful towards me. And for me NC is drawing my boundaries that he crossed so many times. NC for me is respecting myself finally and making a point to my xh that I am not an option that he can always come back to when feels like dumping all his sadness that he himself caused. NC for me is valuing myself this time and not letting him treat me like the OW while being in a relationship with the OW. That's why I am not responding to my xh anymore. I think one very important factor to consider here is, we don't have children. I think with children, that would be very hard to do. If I had children, I don't think I could go total NC with my xh, for the sake of my kids. But since I don't have, I don't see it necessary anymore to stay in contact. But then again that's just me. It doesn't mean that this is a rule that everybody should follow after all, even if we have similar experience it's still different in some ways.

[UrsaMajor]

Attaching

[Dragonfly33]

 I also needed that non interaction to heal. That also can change. Although we are all seeking answers and guidance we are all adults and hopefully if you come to this forum you read enough to know that we all as individuals are not cookie cutter and nor will be our situation or MLCers and we can look at each LBS situation and stories and take what we need and connect where we can , but  in the end we all do what we want ( IMHO)

I can totally relate to this Madluv. In the end, nobody should be judged here whether or not they do NC. I think it's really very individual. Nobody should feel being invalidated for continue to have contact with their spouse while healing.

xycf
I can understand how you feel. I was there myself when my friends and family insisted on not having contact with my xh at the onset of the whole MLC show. They were almost upset and sometimes angry why I continued to answer him. But at the time I wasn't ready and I didn't know what was best for me. I was so blinded by having the idea of saving my marriage. And it was hard to heal for me. But that doesn't mean that what you are doing is wrong. I don't think there is a right or wrong way here to deal with our MLC spouse. I think we have different ways of dealing with it and what worked for some may not work for the others. Like what Madluv said, we are all adults here and we are all capable of sifting through what works for us.  Thank you for sharing your insights. It's important for me to see and read what others experienced. This forum helped me a lot by reading the stories of others and to understand that I was not crazy after all and others experience the same thing and not just me.

[Dragonfly33]

Thank you Ursa, I don't know until now how to do that.   

[Treasur]

And well done to you. Dragonfly, for being able to see and express your own needs and healthy boundaries so clearly. That’s a big step too, isn’t it?

Put simply, there are probably two main reasons for minimising contact imho. When the emotional and psychological effect is too much to live with easily. And when someone’s behaviour towards you is abusive, threatening or way past your own normal boundaries. In my case, at different times, it was both. Probably the first came first, then the second. And the second was more clear cut for me….call me picky, but it’s not ok with me for you to threaten my life or send the police to my door bc I ignore a text message (having ignored me for weeks/months at a time) and then want my emotional support or to ‘chat’ to me. Errrr, nope. And like you, Dragonfly, no kids either so that made some of my choices easier to act on.

I don’t have to hate someone, or be angry even, to say Errr, nope to what they bring to my table….I just have to have a clear sense of what is ok in my life and what is not, just as you described. If the other person doesn’t much like it or has the sadz, well how they process and deal with that effect of their own behaviour is their business, isn’t it? Mine is saying Errr, nope lol

[WHY]

• I think it depends on the type of person the LBS is.

• I think it depends on the type of MLCer you have.

I can tell you one thing.  Living with an at home low energy wallower is brutal.  I for one am a strong believer in that this type of contact is not good for the marriage you're trying to save.  So much damage is taking place on a daily basis and the wonderful marriage you once had becomes some sort of distant memory.  It takes it's toll on the LBS who may not even want to reconcile at this point given the damage.  And it's not good for the MLCer either because I believe they get stuck in the tunnel and make no progress in their journey.

I believe part of the no contact/limited contact path where the MLCer can be out on their own and left to their own devices, is actually a good thing for the LBS, the MLCer, and the marriage/reconciliation.

Now as for no contact vs limited contact.  Jury's still out.  I guess I'll find out.  But RCR says higher chance of recon with contact vs vanishers, so for those standing for their marriage, I would probably bet limited contact is better, IF you can deal with the emotional trauma. 

If you asked me 6 months ago, I was in the 100% no contact group because thats what I needed to heal.  Im now in a place of detachment where I dont think that's necessary anymore because Im standing for myself now vs my marriage.  I'll probably settle on bare bones contact which would hopefully be better for the MLCer to help them in their journey, as well as leaving a door open to a greater chance of recon if it ever comes to that.

HS has saved my life.  But Im in disagreement about the thesis here that we should hold on as long as we can, drag out any D proceedings etc.  The faster they get on their way the better (ONCE THE LBS IS READY FOR IT), and the faster they can hopefully find their way home (just one man's opinion).  This at home wallower stuff that persists for years is life force destroying.

[Dragonfly33]

I totally agree with what you said Treasur. If our mental health is at stake, it's work to take a distance even if it's not permanent. I am shocked that your xh did that to you. I thought all the time that he just vanished. And yet here you are, I don't sense any resentment from you, even after what he made you go through. That is my goal. I was always my xh's emotional support especially when he went through depression. He couldn't open up to his family about it or his friends. They know he had a burn out but I was the one who saw through the whole depression/burnout. And even after cheating on me, I was the one supporting him emotionally instead of him to me. I was easily sucked into his orbit. Since we stopped contacting each other, it helped me a lot to go back to myself, work on my own issues and feelings. And I think I am finally tired of being in that situation. The fear of living alone is slowly fading. Maybe for me NC worked because I was codependent. I was like a drug addict.

Maybe one day we will contact each other again, who knows. But for me it's not necessary anymore because we don't have kids and I decide not to stand anymore. It's just me.

[Treasur]

I’m not naturally given to anger about things I can’t control, Dragonfly. A lot of my friends wanted me to be angrier bc they thought it would be energising….I get that, it just seems not to be how I’m cut….but sadly there is a lot of truth in the idea I think that depression is anger turned inwards. Looking back, I think I had so many other overwhelming emotions - fear, grief, shock - that I didn’t have space for anger too lol.

But resentment? Oh I had loads of that! I stomped around like a resentful toddler for quite a few years lol. It all felt so unfair bc, well, it was. And it did seem as if the person paying the price - literally and figuratively - was me while my xh and ow tripped off into the sunset as I lay bleeding out in the rubble of my life. I was Rosie Resentment with go faster stripes ha ha.

Your comment made me muse this morning on when and why that changed. And indeed how much of that resentment is left. The best way I can describe it is that, a bit like you describe, there came a point when I just didn’t want to be that person anymore bc tbh it didn’t feel like me. Did those awful things happen? Yes. Were at least some of them done intentionally by my xh and others? Yes. Did I deserve them? No. But I think as I started to slowly heal, my normal factory settings came back, I suppose. Life is good but not always fair. Humans can be delightful and I like them, but some are mad, bad, selfish, stupid and dangerous. The rubble was real and whether my xh/ow were happy or not did not change or fix one bit of my pain or distress. And above all, I felt better the more I felt like me as opposed to PTSD me I suppose.

But I feel a lot of what my xh did to me and my family when life events made us at our most vulnerable was, for me, unforgivable. I don’t have to put much energy into that…it’s the same bit of my moral brain that judges those who abuse children or hurt animals. I don’t get it but I accept it happens and I find it unforgivable and inexcusable. I don’t have to hunt those kinds of folks down and beat them up, but they are not my kind of people. They are people imho to stay far away from if possible….and the reasons for their behaving that way do not change the effects of their actions on others. So, now, I suppose I think well, you do you….but I think your take on you makes you a poor quality and rather destructive kind of human, so I don’t think much of your choices and am happy to move away from them.

I spent 20 years or so of my life really liking and loving the person I used to know as my h. I had no idea that he was even capable of doing some of the things he did. Or how he feels about any of that. But I chose not to hate someone who I’d liked so very much bc that didn’t feel good to me either. I think tbh the resentment also eases the more they move into your rear view mirror, the more the damage becomes something that happened as opposed to something that is still happening, if that makes sense? The more you build and create and tidy up a life that has nothing of them in it, I suppose, where you own your own s$it good or bad. It stops being about them or what they did (eventually). I don’t feel much resentment now - I can be triggered lightly into moments of sadness or fear or loneliness or even a memory of the bewilderment. My life now is different and far from perfect. But I think I see my xh as someone who feels ok creating tremendous damage to others to get what he wanted - whatever that was - and I don’t like people like that. I see them as dangerous actually. And a bit stupid. As I’m writing this, I realise that my biggest residual feeling about my xh is a kind of distaste….on a bad day, that could almost be contempt which is not a wolf to feed so I fight that if it pops up lol. Imho he was foolish to throw away good solid love and respect as he did…and unforgivably cruel in how he did it. We both lost a lot but, now, I think he lost more, much more than I did. I suspect the karma bus really shows up by these kinds of folks having to live with the truth of what they choose to become….but that’s not my circus.  With time, truly, I think I see him now as a rather unpleasant stranger in a train lol. I don’t know what happened to him but it didn’t make him a better kind of human, whatever it was!

[MadLuv]

Treasur- I agree that they are not better and  for me in some small ways that validates that it really wasn’t me but him internally

Dragonfly- my daughter also went NC with her Dad 3 months ago. She recently said “ It's not that I'm not speaking to him out of anger. I'm not speaking to him because I do not want the type of relationship he is willing to offer” I think that sums it up. That doesn’t have to mean forever, but it can or it can mean for now.

[beyondblessed]

In my understanding and viewpoint, NC is for the benefit of the LBS and our own well being and stability.  It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ostracizing the MLC.  The terrible choices the MLC does has already done that.  If this is what helps you, DF, then do it.  This is all about you and your growth and moving forward.  His role in your present day life ended because of his choices.  Now you get to choose what's best for you and your path to peace and happiness.  Y