[Hopeful5]

Personally, I would not call this a gift from God - because it actually feels evil to me - and like you say our innocent kids suffer and God would never do that. But I would say that there is an amazing opportunity for growth here and there will be purpose from the pain.

I agree with you here. This is pure evil. There's no way around it. Even so, I believe God is big enough to use this pain to bring about something beautiful.  I'm still processing all of this, so please forgive me for saying that this ugly and painful situation is a "gift" from God.  I know that God cannot give anything evil. But He is bigger than all of it.

[AlvinTheMaker]

So my question is, is it common for MLC'ers to hang around in a completely broken relationship for several years, or do they typically reach a limit and then ask for a D?  I absolutely do not want to be the one to ask for a D.  I want to preserve my relationship with the kids and show them that I'm a rock, and keep them from having to deal with a D, or any of the BS that goes along with it as much as possible. 

Even though things are broken I would assume that if we could be somewhat civil, then a broken 2 parent household would be better than a full divorce (??).  I don't know. I'm willing for all of my beliefs on this to be challenged. 

IMHO it is not common, but not unheard solution either.Relationships are complex and messy at worst, and basically you two need to define what works for you  two.

Is it better for the kids? You might want to observe and listen how they feel about this. And you might want to sit down and look within your needs too. The kids will learn looking at you two, and what is happening now is not teaching what healthy relationships are alike. It is teaching power of abusiveness and unhealthy attachment. It is good to acknowledge there are number of joint/separate living options for couples and families beyond divorce and traditional marriage. But those should always be mutual consent based, not one forcing it all

As a word of precaution, what she says now may change in heartbeat. Whether this is MLC or other mental crisis, the main issue is that she is not loving herself and is seeking happiness from external solutions. It is somewhat guaranteed that when current approach stops giving her the high, she will move trying next solution.  Emotional affair (EA) will surely come as no human is island and everybody needs somebody (another adult) to connect (even many LBS get to this alley). The crisis will end only when she understands it is all about her.

I would recommend you read "Breaking the Cycle" by Marriage Foundation. It is about 300 page ebook, and it is one of those books that made me originally choose standing (though I no longer stand). It is pretty much about situation you describe.

Also "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" by Xavier Amador should prove helpful. It is about effective communication solutions (used and developed by mental healthcare professionals) when other person refuses to communicate hard topics. If nothing more, it will make you a lot better at communication - which is good skill to have regardless of what happens.

Hope this helps to navigate stormy waters.

Alvin

[Hopeful5]

Is it better for the kids? You might want to observe and listen how they feel about this. And you might want to sit down and look within your needs too. The kids will learn looking at you two, and what is happening now is not teaching what healthy relationships are alike. It is teaching power of abusiveness and unhealthy attachment. It is good to acknowledge there are number of joint/separate living options for couples and families beyond divorce and traditional marriage. But those should always be mutual consent based, not one forcing it all

Yes, they're starting too see through the fog of my W's BS.  She says I'm controlling and control our family with our emotions. They're seeing me calm and in control while she's an emotional roller coaster. The've told her that they feel like they're always walking on thin ice around her.  Her emotions are controlling our family. It's not adding up for them...

She's lost her faith, but tells the kids that she's the most "Christian" person she knows. All while being entrenched in unforgiveness, bitterness, and selfishness. She's full of accusation & condemnation.  It's not adding up to them...

She blames all the problems in our family on me, while she tears apart our family with her behavior and words without any remorse or empathy for anyone else.  It's not adding up to them...

I'm realizing that whether there's a D or not, she'll most likely always be embittered against me and work to turn the kids against me. This is a really bleak and frustrating thing to accept.

My strategy is steadfastness, stillness and calmness. A tree is known by its fruit and If I'm going to have a good relationship with my kids I'm going need to play the long game here. I'm refraining from speaking negatively about W to them. My kids come to me with the negative things she's said about me. I feel like I have to defend myself and balance out her accusations against me, but other than that, I'm keeping my mouth shut.  They're smart and they're putting 2 and 2 together.  I'm not at all what she's making me out to be. My kids all love me, and remember our family as being a good up until 1.5 years ago. Her false narrative won't change that. At least I hope... But I still do fear that she will embitter my kids against me.  This is my main fear that I wish I could let go of.

[AlvinTheMaker]

But I still do fear that she will embitter my kids against me.  This is my main fear that I wish I could let go of.

Sadly it is a thing you do not control. Nor does your wife. It is a choice your kids will make.The best you can do is be their dad, be the person they know and trust.

If you feel your W is blacklisting you systematically,, you can contact local child welfare/ social worker and share your worries. They can help organizing your kids tools like age appropriate counselling to navigate these muddy waters. There is lots of professional help available for your kids too, you do not have to struggle it all alone.

Alvin.

[Hopeful5]

But I still do fear that she will embitter my kids against me.  This is my main fear that I wish I could let go of.

Sadly it is a thing you do not control. Nor does your wife. It is a choice your kids will make.The best you can do is be their dad, be the person they know and trust.

You're completely right. This is something that I'm coming to terms with -- Albeit a very tough one. If they choose bitterness and resentment then that will be a tough road for them to travel, for themselves.   But, I really see them clearing their heads of her fog of negativity and beginning to see things clearly. 

My W is broken. I am too in many ways. But, I'm choosing a path of forgiveness and desire reconciliation. She's not and her choice has a massive effect on our family. It's as clear as that, honestly.

[amazinglove]

As a mother, and the daughter of divorced parents - I would say do not worry about her being able to alienate your kids from you. if you are present, and you are calm and kind and do not speak negatively about her (while she trashes you to them) you will always, always keep them on side.

Kids don't actually want to hear anything negative about a parent, and they look to actions not words, always. If the other one parent,  who is not trash talking - is instead, modeling behavior that is consistently kind, and even more importantly shows up for them, they will never turn against you.

[Hopeful5]

As a mother, and the daughter of divorced parents - I would say do not worry about her being able to alienate your kids from you. if you are present, and you are calm and kind and do not speak negatively about her (while she trashes you to them) you will always, always keep them on side.

Kids don't actually want to hear anything negative about a parent, and they look to actions not words, always. If the other one parent,  who is not trash talking - is instead, modeling behavior that is consistently kind, and even more importantly shows up for them, they will never turn against you.

This is VERY encouraging to hear, thank you!

[Hopeful5]

Well, I guess I can say I finally got the official BD.  W said she doesn't love me --- In front of all our kids.

She also said in front of our kids that I'm not worth respecting and that I can't do anything right. 

This is all so sad and unnecessary.  There's not a single problem in our marriage that can't be worked through.

I'm assuming that now that this has been said openly (my kids already knew without her saying anything), that things are going to get more interesting from W.  I'm wondering if she'll be asking for a D next...

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hugs Hopeful5, it is hard hearing it like that.

And hugs to your kids.It is sad when kids need to witness the insanity of this all. Support them and help them navigate throughout the storm in age appropriate ways.

Alvin.

[Treasur]

Well, I guess I can say I finally got the official BD.  W said she doesn't love me --- In front of all our kids.

She also said in front of our kids that I'm not worth respecting and that I can't do anything right. 

This is all so sad and unnecessary.  There's not a single problem in our marriage that can't be worked through.

I'm assuming that now that this has been said openly (my kids already knew without her saying anything), that things are going to get more interesting from W.  I'm wondering if she'll be asking for a D next...

I hope you know….but just in case you have forgotten…. 
Just bc your wife says or even believes something does not make it true.
She may no longer love you, but it is not true that you are not worthy of respect and can’t do anything right. Tbh that sounds like pretty classic projection.
What kind of ‘good’ mother or decent kind of human says things like that out loud and in front of their children? (Spoiler - a very angry one who feels it’s ok to lash out and blame others)
This behaviour is not about you, your kids or your marriage. It is not caused by you, your kids or your marriage. And it can’t be fixed by you, your kids or your marriage. This is about your wife’s issues and her way of dealing with how she feels about them.

You can’t control what she says, thinks or does.
But you, and you on behalf of your kids, do have the right to protect yourself from being exposed to this kind of rage and emotional abuse. (Bc that is what it is)
One can have compassion, based on what you have said about her own early life history, and still protect yourself, still refuse to soak it up and still refuse to buy what she is selling.

But you might need to reframe the narrative in your own head first.

She may have been a good mother and wife before, but she is not now. You (and your kids) are not the problem and therefore not the solution either but you are currently collateral damage to a very angry self-centred troubled woman who seems unwilling or unable to regulate her own emotions or behaviour.

And you do have choices on the spectrum from sucking it up to divorce. And those choices may be shaded by your honest judgement of how much damage the current situation is doing to you and your children.

We understand that you do not want to be the one that formally and legally pulls the plug on your marriage, but imho it’s also useful to acceot that right now, your choice is between this version of a family life and a separated/divorced parallel life where you and your kids get some part of living which is not living like this, not a choice between this and a magic step back to how things were before.

And if you are standing in the hope that this is MLC and your wife will ‘recover’? How much collateral damage are you prepared to allow you and your kids to be, bc anecdotal evidence suggests that this could go on for another 5+ years which would be until your kids are all grown up, even if it happens? Is that acceptable to you as a way for your family to live as they mature into young adults?

And what evidence is there, if any, that your wife is taking any consistent action to manage her own feelings and behaviour, bc of course nothing will change unless she takes steps to change it? And you don’t control that. No amount of steadfastness or compassion or words or silence or niceness or hope or wishes or love controls that.

I am so sorry bc I understand this must feel like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

In the short term, while you consider these things, all I can suggest is that you put in place some consistent boundaries on what you will suck up and what you will not. That you learn to close down this kind of interaction, walk away, interact much less, change the story in your head and stop excusing or justifying any of this kind of behaviour. That as soon as the rage appears, you and your kids remove yourself from the room stating clearly that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable. That you can discuss it together when/if she is ready to talk more calmly and more civilly, that you can even do so with a professional third party present if she would prefer, that you are prepared to listen to what she has to say if she is prepared to talk to you with some civility and basic respect. But not like this, not exposing the kids, not with this kind of anger, not ever again.

If it continues tbh, for your safety and your kids’ wellbeing (bc there are some disturbing red flags in what you have written in the past), you may need to take more formal legal steps to get her removed from the home. And you may need to take some legal advice on your options even if you are not prepared to file for divorce.

Bc imho you need some firm boundaries now on this kind of behaviour….its not ok, and it’s not a good healthy way to live for you or your children. You all deserve to feel safe.
The way to do that is usually to focus on the behaviour, not the causes of it or the person or feelings behind it or the possible solutions to those causes.
Just the behaviour.

I think you are seeing an IC? If you have not already done so, talking with your IC about how to put some protective boundaries around you and your kids from this kind of behaviour would probably be helpful. Jmo.