[Ready2Transform]

My last old thread is here: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8280.0

New thread title because, at least in my life, I do think things come in seven year cycles. Seven years post BD seems to have given me a new normal that is much more in line with the old normal as I've felt since all of this started. I rarely think about xH or his family anymore, and I have a hard time remembering "the good times" as much as I do the bad. A lot of the trauma has eased and I feel a sense of control again. I can easily focus on work and hobbies when I'm doing them, and I don't obsess over triggers. I'm still tiptoeing toward a new relationship, but if it manifests, I know I will have less I'm projecting onto my potential partner than I did a year ago when I first tested the waters with him. We are still very good "friends" for now, and I am grateful to have him in my life.

The vital statistics: BD July 2011, BD #2 November 2011. D'ed June 2013, no settlement yet so no final decree. He married OW March 2015. They now live in two different states, which are both different than mine (and I don't just mean psychologically! But that too  ). Clinger until September 2012, NC except for the divorce until October 2015. Sporadic contact (3 month cycles) until January 2018 when he has ramped up contact considerably. I am no longer standing.

Anjae had asked on Mitzpah's thread why I've continued with the nearly 90 emails between us since January. Short answer: clear up the remaining one issue we have, get the decree issued. That should all happen by June, I'm hoping. Once final decree is issued, I hope to officially put it all behind me. And by all, miraculously, I do mean everything. I feel I have my closure. Of course most of those emails from him are repetitive and self-serving, but that too has helped me put this all to bed. He is the same as when he left. But I'm not.

I thought about not starting another thread, but something occurred over the weekend that bears noting. My friend performs in a soul band at a local venue once a month or so, and I frequently attend. The crowd are usually more my dad's contemporaries than mine (and the last few times I've taken him as my wing man), and I like to people watch while I take in the music. I never expected to see any of xH's family at one of these events, but lo and behold, I spied one of his aunts on the dance floor. I held a grudge against her for being so complimentary to xH and OW from the very beginning of their public outing as a couple, but I really didn't have any of those feelings revisit me that night. I didn't expect her to recognize me (if she did, she did not approach). I didn't go out of my way to avoid, and I am proud of myself for not being petty.

But since she wasn't the usual aunt who went to dance events, I decided to google the other one later (maybe she passed away?). There were no accounts of her demise, but I did find an obscure recent article about the entire family! My xH's oldest uncle was a semi-famous songwriter in the 60's. There have been documentaries and biographies written about him, and there was never any shortage of family trying to get their 15 minutes of fame with talking head and contributor status. Long story short, this article spilled all the tea about the family's horrible mental health and abuse history (the aunt I had been searching contributed most of it, I think), which went even deeper than what I'd known about. Those skeletons were packed in tightly! It answered a lot more questions than what I'd even been asking all these years, but corroborated enough of what I knew to be true to not give me any reason to doubt this new stuff. Truly, it validated that nothing that was happening had anything to do with me, and was heritage-wise, unavoidable on some level. Sad. But not sad is that the Universe delivers right what you need at the right time, in the strangest way possible! Magical.

So back to me and living life with potential. Lots of yardwork this past weekend. I'm the most physically fit that I've been since this all started, and I marvel at how easy some tasks are that used to be devastating to take care of alone (or even with my dad's help). I'm glad there's no longer an "outcome" I'm waiting for because that makes each thing that unfolds every day its own miracle outcome. Even having ANOTHER stray cat adopt my home as its sanctuary is sort of sweet (though I am the last person that needs more cats). I just know it's reflective of how peaceful things are now. And they will stay that way.

 

[Wonder no more]

Great update Ready.  You sound good and I love your outlook on life.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you! And it's so good to see you again! You were very much an early inspiration to me.

[Watcher]

Attaching Ready2Transform

[stillbaffled]

Well, I'm sure glad you decided to start another thread and stick around! 

Thank you for sharing the stuff about your MLCer's family.  Very interesting.  It certainly must validate a lot for you. 

I appreciate you being willing to continue to offer advice and encouragement here, as well as sharing your own journey. 

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you Watcher and stillbaffled for being here! And for your kind words. I'm not doing anything more than what others here did for me. I would have been so lost without the virtual shoulders to lean my head on.

[Velika]

R2T love your thoughtful insights. Thank you!

[Searching4Answers]

Truly, it validated that nothing that was happening had anything to do with me, and was heritage-wise, unavoidable on some level. Sad. But not sad is that the Universe delivers right what you need at the right time, in the strangest way possible! Magical.

So very true. When we stop trying to control things, they usually unfold perfectly. Letting go and trusting that process is not easy but it is very rewarding.

I'm glad there's no longer an "outcome" I'm waiting for because that makes each thing that unfolds every day its own miracle outcome. Even having ANOTHER stray cat adopt my home as its sanctuary is sort of sweet (though I am the last person that needs more cats). I just know it's reflective of how peaceful things are now. And they will stay that way.

Peaceful is a wonderful state to be in. I find myself very protective of my peacefulness now a days.

You sound great R2T!

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you V and Searching! We all know letting go is the most transformative part, but boy can you not do it until you're ready! The day comes for everybody, I think. But one minute before that, it seems impossible. If you still feel that way, have hope! It comes.

[Onward]

Thank you V and Searching! We all know letting go is the most transformative part, but boy can you not do it until you're ready! The day comes for everybody, I think. But one minute before that, it seems impossible. If you still feel that way, have hope! It comes.

You sound really good, Ready. Thanks for the inspiration. I'm not on the board much any more, but do come in to catch up on folks. Boy did this little comment resonate with me. There is a tipping point. It can take a long time, but when it does -- the way forward is far more enticing than looking back. 

[LearningIamOk]

R2T, I am glad you got a glimpse (or an eyeful) of what your xH's family is truly like. I think if someone let the cat-out-of-the-bag (no aspersions on your kitties) about my xH's family, I would get some real answers also. I do know that he comes from a long line of cheaters. Not his dad, but his brother, uncle and grandfather.

I do get a bit angry when I hear that he is taking his OW to plays and comedy shows. Something he would never do with me. But I also hear that she is just awful to him. Why he stays is beyond me. Maybe that's all he thinks he's worth.

I am glad that you have your guy still in the wings. I am glad you are still open to the possibility of a new relationship.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi R2T,

Nice update and interesting about your Mid-Lifer's family... I got to experience some of the Bat-Snot crazy in my Mid-Lifers family first hand so I know what you mean about seeing things a bit differently with the information at hand...

UM

[theheartknows]

Hi Ready2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ready2Transform]

Onward, Learning, Ursa, and theheartknows!!! So glad to see you all, especially in knowing how long we've all been here and how far we've come. xH continues to check in (apologizes sometimes for not doing it more often, as though he's 'missed' a contact and I've been waiting!  ). I don't think much about him or his life. Been having fun times with my tiptoeing-toward-something fella. Spent a lot of time last weekend with his dad (a complete 180 from my NPD xFIL) and we hung out with one of his childhood friends. It feels so comfortable and low-pressure right now. I have a lot of mental freedom to just concentrate on my career and where I want to go with that. Such a huge relief after so much stress for so long. Dad's healing well still and has been back to almost all of his physical activities. We went to a record show a few weeks ago, which is a huge passion of his that he hasn't pursued in a very long time. It's good to see him back to his old self (for the most part). The other day he mentioned that he feels xH will eventually "off himself" and that he "has come to terms with that."  It sounds kind of cold to say something like that to me, but I was able to take it with a grain of salt because of this experience where I learned to respond not react. Truthfully, I know my dad is just one of those people who can't empathize with something he hasn't experienced. He has his own unresolved stuff and I'm sure that plays a role. I've tried to explain to him in the past that our experiences with this are different, but I don't know that he gets it. As a "non-fixer" now, I know it's not my job to make him see what I mean. It's my job to accept that he doesn't, and not let it be a sticking point in my own growth.

[calamity]

Hi R2T,  Yep 7 years cycles...this year does seem different.  In a good way.

[Ready2Transform]

Calamity!!! Somebody break out a bottle of wine or something, we got a full on reunion up in here! 

[LearningIamOk]

It does seem to be a reunion on here.    We Old Timers/Veterans do have a significant bond. I love to see the names of the people I started with and know that they are doing well.

R2T, you are doing especially well. I also see many on FB. Who would have thought, in the beginning, how well we would be doing?

Calamity, do you have a current thread?

THK, I would love an update. How is your job going?

I am so happy for you R2T that you are having fun with your fella and that you are seeing what normal is. I wonder if someone could figure out why we all chose such broken people to be with initially. Maybe Anjae has a theory.

I get on here from time to time, but if anyone would like to PM me, I would love to hear from you. I can't see the subscriber's side since I gave up mentoring. 

[stillbaffled]

I truly enjoy seeing all you old timers/veterans drop in and post an update.  Seven years.  Wow.  I'm midway through year three and still trying to get the MLCer's possessions and stuff off my property! 

[calamity]

I'm midway through year three and still trying to get the MLCer's possessions and stuff off my property! 

My x never took his stuff.  Well it's my stuff now.    You see, the 'stuff' was part of the old h and he left it along with his wife, daughter, pets, etc.  Tip:  rent a storage locker in his name, put his possessions in it, inform him where they are and forget about it.
Yes R2T, 7 years, class of 2011. 

No Learning I do not have a thread--maybe it's time.
 

[Anjae]

Another happy to see you happy and having fun with your male friend.

Maybe Anjae has a theory.

Not really. Some of us were teenagers when we got together, like Ready2, myself and others. At that age, I doubt it had much to do with broken, more with attraction, someone we click with on several levels. In my case, a well read, cultured young man, so different from the boisterous, drinking, taking drugs party type that many teenagers are, prefering reading and the arts to it.

Which, of course, only goes to show how much MLC changed Mr J. Party boy? Drinking? He never done such things when he was a teen, not because he couldn't, but because it wasn't him, and he got into those in his mid 30s?

On the other hand, I have learned on the Medical Neuroscience course I am doing on Coursera, that live experiences changes the nervous system (brain plasticity is the capacity of the nervous system to change). So, we may not have chose someone broken, they may had got broken with life experiences that happened afterwards.

Or there may already be something there, caused by life experiences, but that only was brough forward with the stress and depression of MLC.

Genes, like the nervous system, also alter with life experience. And it can be the same, the genes could had been affected with MLC stress and depression, or something was brought forward by it.

However, the brain (that includes the nervous system, and extends to the gastrointestinal system (that also has neurons) is very complex. This week I will be learning more about long-term depression nd long-term potentiation.

I am viewing it more not as broken people, but with people that suffered brain alterations (no, not on the frontal lobe, that is a different matter), chemical, electrical, neuron level, etc, probably caused by too much cortisol (stress), adrenaline, and a lack of minerals and vitamins - stress and adrenaline would erode those. Homonal factors may also be at play.

The main problem with MCL is that MLCers carry on with MLC lifestyle. While they carry on with it, they are not doing their brains and bodies any favours and the crazy keeps going on.

Later weeks of the Course will have lectures on addiction and the brain. The course is very difficult, with many (too many?) brain things to study. Maybe by the end I will have a better understanding of a few things I was already familiar with, and a new of things I was not familiar with.

Not certain if this, somehow, answered your question, Learning. but I hope to have some more  elaborate thoughts that may apply to MLC once the course is over and I have had time to process the gigantic amount of information we are learning.

Sorry for the highjack, Ready2. I am also going to post this on my thread, so that I ca have it at hand for future reference.

[LearningIamOk]

Continuing the hijack, R2T. 

Anjae, I should really post on your thread, but this was easier. That is some interesting information about things altering due to life experiences. I guess things just wear out like a car with a lot of use and minimal maintenance. I will look forward to hear what else you are learning and you take on it.

[Ready2Transform]

A good Abraham-Hicks quote for the day that reminded me of all of us here:


The content of your vibration equals how you feel right now. And whether you’re thinking about the past, the present, or the future, how you feel right now — as you think about the past, the present, or the future — is your life. And it’s a precious, fabulous, creative life that you are not wanting to squander in a place of resistance. Your life is right now.

Lawyer is drawing up all of the documents for me that I'll need to finally be done. Yay! It took years to both physically and emotionally get here, but it happened. Trust the process - for the LBS.

[Nas]

Banked.

Awesome quote, R2T!

[Ready2Transform]

I know they may be a little too woo woo for most, but I've found (thanks to a remarkable fellow LBS who turned me onto them) Abraham-Hicks to have been integral to my healing since 2015. Lots of audios on YouTubes, books, and emails. We all find what works best for reforming those neural pathways that were blown apart at BD.

[kikki]

Lawyer is drawing up all of the documents for me that I'll need to finally be done. Yay! It took years to both physically and emotionally get here, but it happened. Trust the process - for the LBS.

Woohoo, that is fantastic news Ready.  What a very long haul, but nearly there.

[limitless]

Hey Ready,

Really great news!  Happy to hear this.  The quote is divine!

This is what I call success....A RECONCILED YOU!

Hugs,

L

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you both so much! You have been pivotal on my path. <3

[Anjae]

Lawyer is drawing up all of the documents for me that I'll need to finally be done. Yay! It took years to both physically and emotionally get here, but it happened. Trust the process - for the LBS.

Wonderful news, Ready2.  You've made it. 

[Ready2Transform]

Anjae, I will be happier when papers are in hand and stamped, but well on my way. I know I don't have to tell you that! Someday you'll get the same benefit. Hopefully soon.

[Anjae]

Anjae, I will be happier when papers are in hand and stamped, but well on my way. I know I don't have to tell you that!

No, you don't. 

Someday you'll get the same benefit. Hopefully soon.

Strangely, I seem to have lost any interest in papers. But, of course, that may change.

[Thunder]

Hi Ready!

Another 2011 member at peace.  SO good to hear! 

Hope the financials go smoothly.   

[LearningIamOk]

R2T, so glad things are coming to a close for you. You have dealt with all of this so well, and with great humor. Bravo!

[stillbaffled]

Hi Ready!

Another 2011 member at peace.  SO good to hear! 

Hope the financials go smoothly.   

2011?!?       A medal of honor should come with it! 

[Ready2Transform]

Just a quick update that lest anyone think you can actually get closure, none of this stuff has come to pass yet. I hadn't realized how long it had been since I'd last posted. Really brings it home. On my second round of paperwork with a new mortgage company due to xH's manic behavior with the old one. Went a little over a month without hearing from him and it was bliss. Apathy *does* come. Hopefully it will be done before 2019.

[Anjae]

Hopefully it will be done before 2019.

Truly hope so.

I also love when I don't hear from Mr J/don't have to contact, which is most of the time. Such peace and bliss.

[Ready2Transform]

Hopefully it will be done before 2019.

Truly hope so.

Thank you. I know you feel my pain. I think the biggest frustration this round is seeing how laid back my attorney is about it. That's one of the bad things about letting things sit; people won't make you a priority. There's no big money to be made on it after all of this time, so there's no motivation for them. Sad but true.

I also love when I don't hear from Mr J/don't have to contact, which is most of the time. Such peace and bliss.

I find myself tensing up when I know he's going to just drop me a one-liner. I made a special folder to filter his emails out so I don't have to look at them when I log in. To think, I used to pray for contact. Be careful what you wish for.

[Nas]

I have a special folder that I filter H’s emails to as well. I barely check it now since he never contacts and doesn’t reply to any emails I send. But when I do check it, i tense up a little.
It’s sad how so many years can pass and they still have an ability to cause difficulty in our lives.

[Anjae]

Not sure it is a case of letting things sit. Even if I didn't had a lawyer right from the start, I have been having one for over 11 years. Nothing got sorted so far.

MLC and the MLCer can pretty much frustrate everything and everyone.

I have made a folder for Mr J's e-mails years ago, but I have actually kept the more recent ones on my general correspondence folder - think at a point I decided Mr J was no longer special/different, general correspondende was fine. My in-box barely has any e-mails. I have folders for pretty much everything. Same with my professional e-mail. I can't deal with a crowded in-box.

[calamity]

Hi Ready,
Re:  closure.  I'm not sure there's any such thing.
After years [3,4,5?] I've had 2 contacts with x in the past few months, 2 emails.  The first was meh.  The second, the minute I saw his name my heart started pounding--I had a panic attack that was very difficult to get under control and it was hours before I was calm. 

I was furious.  With myself.  I'm still puzzled why I reacted so differently as there was no apparent reason.
I wish I could be bothered to explain the emails but it would be a waste of time for me and the reader.  Enough to say, he's not happy and it's still mostly my fault and why don't I pity him [it was about $$$, bane of the mlcer].  Pathetic of him but quite validating for me.
PS  For the first time in all the emails since 2011, he used my name in the salutation as in 'Dear Calamity'--I giggled when I noticed because, a few years ago I would have been thinking, He used my name!  He said 'dear'!  He still loves me.  He must be coming home.

[Ready2Transform]

Nodding, completely! I guess this too is a stage. When there's a lot of emails I get more casual about it, but when there's a span, I'm anticipating it now. Once in the spring xH told me I was going to "make him homeless". The next week, he went on a cruise to the Bahamas (I saw on FB when I was checking for his "homeless status")! The B.S. never ends. And agreed, there are so many things he's said that I don't bring here to the forum lest I get a lot of empathy for him or false interpretation that he's rounding the proverbial tunnel. He's not. But a few years ago, I would have absolutely thought he was.

[Anjae]

Re:  closure.  I'm not sure there's any such thing.

Maybe there is. Closure is an alien concept for a Portuguese, so, it is not something I ever looked for.

Enough to say, he's not happy and it's still mostly my fault and why don't I pity him [it was about $$$, bane of the mlcer].

It has been years down the road, he is not happy, and it is your fault. Phew. Right. MLCers. They leave to because they are not happy, they are certain they will be happy in their new life/with OW/OM but they remain unhappy. If only they manage to understand they are the only common denominator.

Mr J started using Dear Anjae in his 2016 e-mails. Can't say it brough any other change(s) in him. Still deep in Replay after 12 years.

[LearningIamOk]

Hi R2T! I also hope you get things wrapped up before 2019.

I never have any contact with my xH. My D35 quit working for him this past summer (due to the staff accountant in his office not xH). I get no reports at all now, but I got very little to start with from her. Only that she despises the OW. LOL All my kids do.

At any rate, I don't get flustered anymore when I hear his name or drive past his office. Haven't seen him in over 2 years and that has been bliss.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you, Learning! Just more confirmation of how life moves on to a much better place. I have no doubt your kids will never warm to the OW. I'm still kind of shocked that the OW's kids in my case had no problem being grown and living with my xH. He is "grandpa" to their kids.    I just take for granted they must be just like their mother. Anything is acceptable if $$$ is involved!

[Ready2Transform]

A friend of mine's divorce was finalized this week. He is an obvious MLCer. She stood for over a year, maybe a year and a half. I commend her for it because she was the one (think I mentioned them a long time ago) who had encouraged me to file in 2012 as fast as I could and was dismissive of standing. I had known them both when we were young, and they had married after reconnecting in their 30s (neither left a spouse to do so). He did all the typical MLC things. OW1 was a younger woman he was in a band with. There was apparently another OW (or many) somewhere along their "tour route" from 2017. He was back with my friend reconnecting and living together for over a year. She found out about the latest OW when she went on vacation with her mother. He dropped the wife off at the airport, and picked up the OW (old girlfriend from 17 years ago he'd rekindled with on FB, she divorced her H for him), took her back to their house and slept with her in their bed. Sent her horrible threats about their dog while she was in another country and could do nothing (the dog is fine, and the court awarded him to her). When she was home, he didn't understand why they could keep living together while he dated the other girl in another city (same one my xH ran to!). He wanted to tell her all his plans just like xH did with me after the affair was outed, like they were best friends. She had him removed by sheriffs once she asked him to leave and he refused. Long story short, he filed some continuances after moving to the new city with OW, but she was able to have her day in court, get her house and her dog, and start her new life. But she still can't believe this is a THING. I am not shocked at all by the things she tells me he does (of course, he still wants to talk as he is a classic clinger). They went to the house after court and he wanted to hug, go out to dinner before he left for his new home, hang out like old times. She said no and he broke down, told her he missed her all the time. Same story we all know. But she's done, so she sent him on his way and I could see from FB the xMIL (my neighbor's daughter, ugh) and new gf OW were already cozy and he was putting on the FB "front" and playing like he was bitter. So DON'T believe everything you see on FB. I have a front row seat for this one as I will still be living near his family and of course hearing from my friend what new crazy things he does. But I don't think it's a story that's over, even if she's no longer technically standing.

[LearningIamOk]

UGH! I am so sorry that your friend is going thru this. Why do so many think they can be friends while being with an OP? I will be interested to hear from you how this plays out.

[Ready2Transform]

She just keeps reiterating how surreal and insane it is. Can't argue there! She's at that place we all were where, in her words, here's this person you are so angry at that you want to kill them, but they're a big mess and you totally feel sorry for them and want to help. For kind, healthy people, this is an impossible situation. I really do hope he gets his head right, but from the look of where everything is right now, it's gonna be awhile. He's in full on limerance with the OW, which we all know they can completely compartmentalize from their feelings of attachment and neediness with us when they are clingers. It's so strange to see it up close from the outside.

[kikki]

here's this person you are so angry at that you want to kill them, but they're a big mess and you totally feel sorry for them and want to help.

That sums it up nicely.

Very interesting to have the birds eye view of it playing out in front of you, but not tugging at your own heartstrings.

[Anjae]

Best that they are friendly with us than nasty evil monster.

Friends is a little different, but remember that they see us as being the same as them. Therefore, in their minds we are to be friends regardless of OW/OM.

I never wanted to kill or to help Mr J, aside from when he said he was depressed, and the help was "go see a doctor". His mess, his problem.

Which lead to a lot of drama because he wanted my help to do "this" (whatever this was). Early on Mr J used to say he couldn't do "this" without my help. I told him his issues where his problem.

Maybe it wasn't smart, but...

Your friend does not believe in standing and is filling for divorce, so, I don't think it makes a difference if her MLCer crisis will be long or short. She is done.

The MLCer's lunacy, of course, is not different if the LBS stands or does not stand.

[LearningIamOk]

The MLCer's lunacy, of course, is not different if the LBS stands or does not stand.

This is the truest statement about MLC that I have seen. The freak show goes on no matter what. 

R2T, I hope your friend will be in a better place soon. Even if she has divorced, it's still a roller coaster ride of emotions.

[Ready2Transform]

She was actually a stander for awhile, so she does *believe* in it, just not anymore. Her situation hit that point.

She's doing okay. We spent a girls' night out a a few Saturdays ago, and it was fun. Her divorce is final. Her hearing was not what she hoped, but she got her house and her dog. And her freedom!

Her xH lied on the stand. She asked him later (because he's a clinger, so she has plenty of opportunity!) why he did that, and he gave the most honest answer any MLCer ever could: "Because I wanted to win!". So there you go. Why ever even thinking of trusting him again. But I was amazed at how calculated he openly admitted to being.

He of course wanted to go out to eat and hang out after their divorce before he went back to OW's state.    Same old same old. She told him to get the hell out. But like I say, she's a bit of a softy, so she does answer him when he (frequently) corresponds.

She also already has a new beau. The first boy I ever kissed!  I was a bit shocked. She has already gone to visit him two states away, and he's stayed with her once. He has...issues. Not MLC, but I wish she had someone who was more of a clean slate. That's why I think the whole "high school sweetheart" thing is such an MLC cliche. It's comfortable and familiar. She's known him for 30 years, he knew her H, it's all less scary than someone new. We're all hurting and healing in our own ways, I guess. Good luck to her.

I would tell the tale of my former flame who I also saw at said event (the one I saw post-Hoss and tried to rekindle earlier this year) but it's just a sad MLC farce. Work in a few more married women for him, one of which I thought was a friend of mine, but both who stalked me on social media (gag) and you have an R2T who is super triggered. It's just like xH and OW at the beginning, and I can't believe it. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to heal, I guess? Not really. I would be more grateful to not have to ever deal with anything like this ever again. But clearly, I still have healing to do. So I work through the emotions and anxiety of it and keep going. It's all we can do.

[Anjae]

He of course wanted to go out to eat and hang out after their divorce before he went back to OW's state.   

MLC normal. 

Mr J's anwer was to his legal lies was "because I want to get rid of you". Win, lose, didn't seem to matter. He lost, never got his court divorce. However, I think the real anwswer is that he didn't want to be divorce, just to annoy me and cling in a different way.

She may be having a little bit of crisis helself. Or in shock, or just trying to get some solace. If none of them is married/in another relationship, even if it is a bit daft, don't see much of a problem. It will probably not last, or be a bit (or a big) drama, but if it is just the two of them, let them have their fantasy.

[Ready2Transform]

No crisis for her. She recognizes that she's just trying to figure out where her life is going. She's addressing fertility issues as well and is feeling out whether she wants to have a child on her own at this stage, foster or adopt, or let that go (she's 46). Her family all live in other cities too, so she's still trying to find home. All things we are all super familiar with that aren't overnight decisions. Normal life things for healthy people. Everyone has baggage, but like you say, without having families and marriages attached to it, it's just normal life things to figure out. One of the things I'm slowly accepting to is that there's no "there" to get to. It's all the journey, and change will continue to happen too. Not super comfortable at the moment. But real life.

[Treasur]

The MLCer's lunacy, of course, is not different if the LBS stands or does not stand.

This is the truest statement about MLC that I have seen. The freak show goes on no matter what. 

R2T, I hope your friend will be in a better place soon. Even if she has divorced, it's still a roller coaster ride of emotions.

I think we all - or those of us who are done - recognise that strange combo of 'wow, surreal' plus working out what your new sense of 'home turf' means. Normal stuff but coming out of a not very normal chain of events. And after a lot of destruction you didn't choose. Feels very different from the choices you made in your 20s....I think you are right though, R2, that we look at the idea of plans and 'there' rather differently bc of the things we have learned now. And I hope your friend finds the joy of NC soon with the ongoing lunacy!

[Anjae]

In our mid 40s or later, or even a little earlier, we have baggage. If there aren't marriages and families involved, why not live life the way we want to? We may even bang with our head on the wall, but, hey, it is called life.

Our choices, plans, views on life become so different from when we were late teens or 20s. On the other hand, things can become much lighter and go with the flow.

This is the truest statement about MLC that I have seen. The freak show goes on no matter what. 

Always. The freak show must always goes on, no matter what. 

[Nas]

One of the things I'm slowly accepting to is that there's no "there" to get to. It's all the journey, and change will continue to happen too. Not super comfortable at the moment. But real life.

This.  I hate it, but it's true.  I've never been someone who likes too much change.  I had a chaotic childhood and I like to know what's coming next.  I like stability.  MLC is the opposite of that and that's why I think it's been harder for me than some.

[LearningIamOk]

One of the things I'm slowly accepting to is that there's no "there" to get to. It's all the journey, and change will continue to happen too. Not super comfortable at the moment. But real life.

This.  I hate it, but it's true.  I've never been someone who likes too much change.  I had a chaotic childhood and I like to know what's coming next.  I like stability.  MLC is the opposite of that and that's why I think it's been harder for me than some.

R2T, I have also, only recently, realized that there is no "there". I am also content now to just go with the flow. Too many variables in life. I don't stress about the future like I did. So much has worked out that I once thought were dire events. I am pretty proud of myself for sorting it all out.

I also don't think that rushing in to find another person to be with is a good plan. I had wanted to do that early on, and my oldest sister, and greatest mentor told me that I was in no shape to do so.    She was right, of course, and I waited 2 1/2 years before trying to date. Good thing too, because I wasn't about to settle for broken people just to have someone in my life. I also learned that life by yourself can be very good.

Life does keep changing, R2T. Thank God it does.

[Ready2Transform]

Happy Thanksgiving, Learning! I aim for that level of contentment. I know it will come. All of this does minimize the things we all so innocently used to view as worst case scenarios. I guess that's good? LOL.

I gave my friend some advice awhile back that was really meant for myself in terms of new people. She was worried she'd never be able to trust again. I said, "You won't! As far as a man is concerned. But you'll be able to trust YOURSELF, that if the red flags come, you'll do what is right for you. You'll set boundaries this time. You won't settle just because it's easier than going." The illusion may be gone, but something more real is within us now. And THAT is worthy of trust. To the future!

[LearningIamOk]

Happy Thanksgiving to you also, R2T!

Yes, the trust thing, as far as men go, is gone. My boyfriend and I have been together for over 5 years and I don't trust that one day he just might get up and go. I like that we have separate homes.

The red flags, should they appear, will definitely not be ignored. I think you gave your friend very sound advice. You are a true friend to her. I hope she understood you.

To the future!

[Ready2Transform]

Just a general check-in. It's been awhile!

My friend I referred to in my last post is likely MLC. She hooked up with a married guy in December (but he's separated!! Except that he's obviously not...) and immediately went so limerent that she was impossible to be around. We were at a club where he was (we were there 15 minutes before he actually told her he was there, and this was after they'd already hooked up at her house that evening.  ) but yet she thought he was so into her (he's not). She got super drunk like a college girl and it was embarrassing, plus she couldn't drive her rental car home (she'd wrecked her own car texting and driving) and didn't tell me she expected me to drive (also drinking, so nope). We Ubered home because Prince Charming had to obviously get home to wifey after dong drugs in the parking lot? Who are these people? Oh, he's my UPS guy! So I ship through FedEX now. 

Same night Uber driver (super nice guy that I enjoyed waxing philosophical with! Angels everywhere) drops her off, then me, then I start getting nasty calls. Seems she'd left her house keys in the rental car...which was still at the club, or rather, on the street where it will likely get towed (all of this my fault for not driving while intoxicated). Told me she hates me. Ended up Ubering to the car and driving it back herself. Next day she apologized and said she was cutting the guy off because he was making her crazy. Last I checked she was still liking his "art" on Instagram. 

I showed her that his wife had an FB page with their picture together and their kids' pictures all over it, and she felt it must mean the wife doesn't use FB often.  The guy's not lying. So there's that. No filed divorce on the docket either. It pays to have a friend like me that's a master sleuth, but all of that is worth nothing if you won't listen.

She's also taking up hobbies left and right, and still talking to her xH who is also MLC. I expect them to get back together at some point.

She was very responsible and Type A before. She's got no life direction and has fertility problems (47 now, and likely not going to be a mom, which is all she wanted). So the recipe for disaster certainly has a full list of ingredients.

We're still friends...but I keep my distance. 

Seeing more and more women in MLC. Taking it deeper in working on my own childhood issues. My dad has been great with having the uncomfortable conversations I need. It's resolving things, but it's hard. It's not that I want to avoid therapy, I actually like the idea of it, but I feel less inclined the more I am just willing to talk about things when I need to, and do the self-care/mirror work on my own.

On that front I mentioned on another thread that I've been revisiting the "limerence" work of Dorothy Tennov, Helen Fisher, and Joe Beam. The latter has some great YouTube content now for anyone interested (Marriage Helper is his non-profit). It will help understand the OP/MLCer relationship, but also if you're the type who tends to have limerence toward new dating interests or feel a lack of detachment from an absent spouse, I've found the stuff is good for that too. I was absolutely limerent after BD in a way I later thought was codependence, but I had never been that way before. I just really think it was a trauma response. Little bit of it with dating post-standing too. I feel a ton better by recognizing it, and the childhood issues that likely caused it.

MLCer? No talkie since September, but I think he's filed bankruptcy, judging from some paperwork I got from the mortgage company (not a shocker to me, from some of the banks that had contacted me in the last year). But he tried to hack into my business website on Valentine's Day (using credentials we used to use when he was working with me a decade ago) and ordered a magazine (something only he would want) two weeks later on one of my accounts. Had to go through a lot of drama with canceling a debit card and making sure outstanding charges were paid, but no harm otherwise. So still very much "out there" apparently! And feeling as entitled as ever. Nuts. But I feel great!

[Anjae]

If I got it right, your friend is having an affair with a married guy who goes to clubs and does drugs and who told her he is married.

Not sure which one of them is crazier.

I think we all have infatuation/limerance when we first fall in love with someone. It is a normal chemical reaction. Then there is acting on it, if a viable relationship between single people, or not acting on it, be it because one or both are married or because it is just a warn, nice fantasy.

My time has been more and more for reading the types of writers and poets I used to read, photography, art, writing, watching selected movies and tv shows, studying languages and history, etc. And walks when the weather is good.

MLC, aside from something I know happened, was a million years ago.

Regarding limerance, I don't think it lasts 5, 7, 10 or more years or survives years of joint daily life. MLC problem seems to be more the fact that even after limerance/infatuation many MLCers remain with the alienator, or may find a new one with whom they spend years on end.

[LearningIamOk]

 

Who are these people? Oh, he's my UPS guy! So I ship through FedEX now. 

Thanks for laugh and the tale about your "friend". Truly MLC.

[terrified_in_TN]

...

Regarding limerance, I don't think it lasts 5, 7, 10 or more years ...

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

 

-T

[Ready2Transform]

If I got it right, your friend is having an affair with a married guy who goes to clubs and does drugs and who told her he is married.

Not sure which one of them is crazier.

He told her he was "separated" (I might have left that out) and she has been victim of MLC affairs, so she knows intimately how wrong it is to do that to another woman. But you believe what you want to! Her: MLC. Him: Garden variety jerk that is a perfect partner for something like that. Though I don't think he had/has any intention on sticking around.

I think we all have infatuation/limerance when we first fall in love with someone. It is a normal chemical reaction. Then there is acting on it, if a viable relationship between single people, or not acting on it, be it because one or both are married or because it is just a warn, nice fantasy.

There's actually a further definition of it (I continue to learn) that is classified more OCD than "love" or "in love". Disruptive thoughts up to 85% of the time that aren't controllable by the sufferer. Lexapro has been named a possible treatment. Something chemical that is intriguing to me, from a study perspective.

My time has been more and more for reading the types of writers and poets I used to read, photography, art, writing, watching selected movies and tv shows, studying languages and history, etc. And walks when the weather is good.

Yep. Feels good, doesn't it? It finally really hit for me. I have a new music project with a couple of guys. and the weather has broken enough that I'm back to a few walks a day. Can't wait to start gardening!

Regarding limerance, I don't think it lasts 5, 7, 10 or more years or survives years of joint daily life. MLC problem seems to be more the fact that even after limerance/infatuation many MLCers remain with the alienator, or may find a new one with whom they spend years on end.

It definitely doesn't. I think that's why so many of them cycle through people. Nothing we don't already know! They want to "feel good" at any cost to keep from "feeling bad". They'll get someday that you have to go THROUGH those emotions. Or not!

Who are these people? Oh, he's my UPS guy! So I ship through FedEX now. 

Thanks for laugh and the tale about your "friend". Truly MLC.

HA! And right after I posted this there he went down my street. Can't escape 'em!

It's frustrating because she's a well educated, interesting person with a solid family (doesn't really fit the FOO issues mold, unless you count that maybe they've done too much for her?). But it can really hit anyone.

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

She should up the quantity of beans in her diet if she wants a flighty tummy. Otherwise, that Disney dream ain't gonna happen! 

[Anjae]

A MLCer and a garden cheater variety. Bright future ahead. Not. 

The complex limerance stuff is above my pay grade. It sounds like normal teenager in-love to me, but, who knows.

It does feel really good. I had done things before, like all those courses on Coursera. Now I am back to my usual interests.

Mr J had OW1, who didn't last much in the open and OW2 who lasted 10 years. They seem to be back together. Most MLCers seem to stick to one or two OW/OM. At the moment, I am not really that interested in what they are up to in those crazy long relationships.

Mr J's OWs are well educated, interesting and with a solid family. He is well educated, interesting and even if FIL had his issues, it can hardly be said it was a troubled family. Think MLC is far more then FOO issue/problematic families. It really can hit anyone.

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

 

If your ex-wife says so ... who I am to disagree ... 

[terrified_in_TN]

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

 

If your ex-wife says so ... who I am to disagree ... 

She should up the quantity of beans in her diet if she wants a flighty tummy. Otherwise, that Disney dream ain't gonna happen! 

Bwahahahahhahaha 

-T

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

It really can hit anyone.

This part, I go back and forth on. I tend to believe that something unresolved from either childhood or early adolescence that simmers for long period of time erupts upon the dawning of a new crisis.

The MLCer rather than face reality or try to deal with the issue, runs and attempts to break the pain by going back to the age of the issue- thus the actions and thoughts of the teenager.

Of course, I have no data, no statistics, only the qualitative remarks and stories by those on the forum. So, my opinion is simply an opinion.

However, there is something about the MLCer in crisis. I know we often throw out the term Narcissist and the actual diagnosis is very rare. But the MLCer does become very self-focused and no action seems unreasonable as long as it appears to benefit them.

Yet, the LBSer is resilient and even though equally hurt and crushed by the MLCer, they manage to pull themselves out by intentionally focusing on themselves. The LBSer begins to do things for themselves, but it intentional and works towards healing.

Its strange that the actons that serve to cure the LBSer is the poison for the MLCer.

And it is all because the MLCer acts to avoid reality and the LBSer confronts reality.

So based upon what I have read and surveyed, I don't think MLC can happen to just anybody.

((((Ready))))
 

[Ready2Transform]

Ooh, I'm feeling that. Gonna sit with it some. Thank you, Ready Sr.!

[UrsaMajor]

...

Regarding limerance, I don't think it lasts 5, 7, 10 or more years ...

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

 

-T

Right!

And they are NOT supposed to require any work or maintenance to keep them either! It is all just supposed to be Cotton Candy clouds, puppy dogs, rainbows and unicorns running around farting glitter.... And if it isn't, then something is wrong with us and the R and they have to blow everything up and leave....

T, are you SURE we weren't  married to the same person? Or maybe just long lost twins separated at birth or something?

If I got it right, your friend is having an affair with a married guy who goes to clubs and does drugs and who told her he is married.

Not sure which one of them is crazier.

He told her he was "separated" (I might have left that out) and she has been victim of MLC affairs, so she knows intimately how wrong it is to do that to another woman. But you believe what you want to! Her: MLC. Him: Garden variety jerk that is a perfect partner for something like that. Though I don't think he had/has any intention on sticking around.

Ah yes... the "Player" and the Mid-Lifer.... Sounds identical to STBXW and her (very short-lived) OM.... He saw, he came, he left (and went back to his W and kids... )

I dunno Anjae.  According to my ex, those "butterflies in your stomach" feelings are supposed to last forever.

She should up the quantity of beans in her diet if she wants a flighty tummy. Otherwise, that Disney dream ain't gonna happen! 

Or more frequent trips to Taco Bell....

[Ready2Transform]

Ah yes... the "Player" and the Mid-Lifer.... Sounds identical to STBXW and her (very short-lived) OM.... He saw, he came, he left (and went back to his W and kids... )

My gut is telling me this is the predominant type for female MLCers (in competition with our "overseas catfish" types). No doubt this guy is gonna fit the bill. And by bill I mean, he's gonna cost her some money first (already she had to buy his drinks!).

Or more frequent trips to Taco Bell....

[LearningIamOk]

However, there is something about the MLCer in crisis. I know we often throw out the term Narcissist and the actual diagnosis is very rare. But the MLCer does become very self-focused and no action seems unreasonable as long as it appears to benefit them.

Yet, the LBSer is resilient and even though equally hurt and crushed by the MLCer, they manage to pull themselves out by intentionally focusing on themselves. The LBSer begins to do things for themselves, but it intentional and works towards healing.

Its strange that the actons that serve to cure the LBSer is the poison for the MLCer.

And it is all because the MLCer acts to avoid reality and the LBSer confronts reality.

So based upon what I have read and surveyed, I don't think MLC can happen to just anybody.

((((Ready))))
 

I think that's a really interesting observation that the MLCer's self focus is poison, but the same self focus is healing for the LBS. Dr. Ready you might have a new self help book in the making.

[Treasur]

She just keeps reiterating how surreal and insane it is. Can't argue there! She's at that place we all were where, in her words, here's this person you are so angry at that you want to kill them, but they're a big mess and you totally feel sorry for them and want to help. For kind, healthy people, this is an impossible situation. I really do hope he gets his head right, but from the look of where everything is right now, it's gonna be awhile. He's in full on limerance with the OW, which we all know they can completely compartmentalize from their feelings of attachment and neediness with us when they are clingers. It's so strange to see it up close from the outside.

The MLCer's lunacy, of course, is not different if the LBS stands or does not stand.

This is the truest statement about MLC that I have seen. The freak show goes on no matter what. 

R2T, I hope your friend will be in a better place soon. Even if she has divorced, it's still a roller coaster ride of emotions.

Wanted to bump Ready's thread up bc as Nas reminded me, there is a lot of good useful learning in it 

[Nas]

Yes, it’s a treasure trove...pun intended 

[UrsaMajor]

Yes, it’s a treasure trove...pun intended 

"Treasure" or "Treasur" ? <snort>

[Nas]

UM, you’re lucky I don’t know how to insert GIFs.
 

[UrsaMajor]

Sorry for the hijack R2T - I guess we have now bumped your thread WAY up the list so maybe you'll stop by and tell us what is going on in your world?

UM, you’re lucky I don’t know how to insert GIFs.
 

You mean because I'd get one like this?



 

[Nas]

Well played, UM. Now I need a hand clapping gif. 

Hi, R2T!  Hope you're well.  And hope bumping this thread way up gives lots of newbies a chance to read your inspiring story. 

[Ready2Transform]

HA! Don't you guys start having fun without me! 



Get yourself a cuppa and prepare to get bored! 

This summer has been the first in a long time where I can honestly say the depression has stayed at bay. My ADD has also been managed really well. These are two lifelong issues I've accepted that I will have to stay on top of, and that's okay. I'm not quite at my goal weight, but I do think I'm more physically fit than I've been in many years. The physical and mental combo make accomplishing tasks so much easier. My hair is growing back in from the chronic telogen effluvium I've struggled with (which also helps me emotionally). I'd started getting really into wigs though just in case, and now I have a wig fetish. I've got some music projects going with friends so I expect to be putting my collection to good use when we get performing. Career is still my main focus and a big source of my identity (creative entrepreneur), and I'm more comfortable moving forward without getting a side job for now.

I have gotten some home projects tackled that were in desperate need. New hot water tank to go with the new furnace (2016) and A/C (2018). Cleaned out some overgrowth in the yard and have started some little projects that can continue into autumn. The little things really make a visual difference and keep my momentum going. I don't try to get it all done in one day anymore. I had some dead limbs earlier in the year that were going to need trimming, and mother nature did me a square and took them down herself (amazingly without hitting anything in their path). Dad and I got to work with his chainsaw a few weeks ago and got that cleared out of the yard, so I can sit around my burn bowl without worrying I'm going to get taken out by a tree. 

Only downside of summer was my dad's 12 year old dog suddenly took ill a few weeks ago and passed away. I really bonded with the little dude when Dad broke his hip in 2017 and he came to stay with me, and though I think he's around in his own way, I'll miss seeing him. My dog has been a bit depressed that his "uncle" no longer comes for visits when Dad is here. 

MLC? Oh, yes..that's what you're actually here for.  Really nothing of note, other than seeing it EVERYWHERE. My music buddies have some red flags, but I've laid down the law that I'm an amateur marriage counselor and advocate, so I will not be enabling any bad behavior. My friend that was hitting her MLC after divorce is still pretty much there. We haven't really talked in a long time, but she's on a trip in Europe with her stepdaughter (ex-stepdaughter? Her xH's grown daughter), and my dad thinks that's a big sign that she's still standing. I kind of do too, even though I saw her xH just bought a house with the new girlfriend in another city, etc. I do not offer my opinions, as it just is what it is. Support where you can, but also where people ask you too (and leave them to be if they don't want your advice!). Detachment is a gift in itself.

Edited to add one more thing regarding MLC:

I don't really do much "research" anymore, but I have revisited a few limerence-oriented podcasts and forums over the last 6 months or so. I found there were still some areas I needed to heal in regards to the affair. I am not encouraging anyone else to do that, but rather, listen to your intuition as to where you need healing, and do what you feel you need to do. Once I was *done* again, and reached a deeper level of understanding, it was easy to let it go and lose interest. One big takeaway was really feeling, at this point of objectivity, how immature those infatuations are and how much more reflective and mature we become as LBSs. It really isn't a match, and makes it seem now more pointless to try to triangulate into their drama while the affairs are going on. I hope that helps me going forward in new relationships.

[Nas]

So sorry to hear about your dad's dog. 

Otherwise, all sounds good and like you still pretty much remain my #goals, lol. 
Thanks for updating!

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you. I have to say, it feels REALLY good to not have the specter of my xH's MLC bubbling below the surface of everything. But I did find this gif that seems to perfectly sum up his crisis. 



One of my music project friends sent me a big MLC spew over the weekend. He's had some script-ish behavior in the past, so I'm not completely shocked, but he really went there, trying to get approval from me (of all people, oblivious to how this might be a trigger) for why he is justified in seeking affair partners outside of his marriage (don't actually think any exist, but he certainly wants them to. lol). He's recently lost his long term job, cut contact with his son, and is doing everything he can to blow up his marriage for no reason. Bingo card filling up, for sure. I let him have it and he cut me off for a bit (talking this afternoon as though the whole thing didn't happen). He's tearing into random people on the internet as well (fond memories of xH's behavior). Seriously, what is going on?!

[Nas]

Oy. Sometimes I wonder if having already been exposed to MLC, we now just attract them. 

[Ready2Transform]

Law of attraction 101: where attention goes, energy flows. DANG IT. My own fault. If MLC forums bring me more MLCers, I need to point myself toward more Keanu Reeves forums, STAT! 

[UrsaMajor]

Oy. Sometimes I wonder if having already been exposed to MLC, we now just attract them. 

I tend to think that it is really that we now RECOGNIZE them for what they are instead of just thinking that the person has a screw loose......

[Nas]

Law of attraction 101: where attention goes, energy flows. DANG IT. My own fault. If MLC forums bring me more MLCers, I need to point myself toward more Keanu Reeves forums, STAT! 

Keanu is my favorite. I’ll keep sending positive Keanu vibes your way, but only if you promise to tell him all about your awesome pal Nas and introduce me 

[Treasur]

I met him once at a party in LA...had no idea who he was bc I hadn't seen Speed as I had been busy travelling with a new job.
My gay friend was trying to do face signals and waving at me lol...I was oblivious though. I remember him being a nice guy and we talked about not liking LA much and he said he liked mountains as I recall.

[Nas]

Oh my gosh, amazing story, Treasur.
I just love him.  He's an example of someone who has handled multiple life tragedies and sad circumstances with a lot of grace. 

[Ready2Transform]

So cool, Treasur!! Agreed with Nas, that guy is just the archetype for class and authenticity. And cuteness.

I tend to think that it is really that we now RECOGNIZE them for what they are instead of just thinking that the person has a screw loose....

YUP. I was telling my dad that if I didn't already have the script, it would all seem so flaky. But knowing it what to expect, you can almost predict the weird actions and cycles. BAH! Enough though!!

[LearningIamOk]

Hi R2T! I agree that since we have the MLC playbook, it does make it easier to spot the ones heading for, or already in a crisis. I think you and Nas are onto something with sending out Keanu Vibes. I will have to see if I can create that as well. 

I am also sorry about your dad's dog. They all stay for such a short time. I just finished reading A Dog's Purpose, and I thought it was wonderful.

Summer is flying by. I managed to have my old pond torn out and a new one put in its place. We had a wicked storm and the tree limbs spared the pond, but damaged some of my fence. I can deal with it. And, my boyfriend and I went to visit with Stayed and her H for a weekend! We had a most enjoyable time.

[Ready2Transform]

The pond sounds wonderful! And I'm jealous you got Stayed time. How wonderful that we all got lifelong friendships out of this. Tis the season for the lemonade from these lemons for sure.

[Ready2Transform]

Today is the 8th anniversary of xH packing up a small amount of wares into a few totes and driving off into the sunset to his mommy's house. Gut wrenching at the time, but a happy day for me today. Coincidentally it's the same day my dad had left his second wife 8 years earlier than that. We call it our personal independence day.

I had a talk with my band friend before rehearsal last night. Without bringing up midlife crisis at all, I was able to validate his support for his wife's depression treatment and them working on things together. He knows where I stand for sure. I passed along some supplement info too. All I can do is say, "You might look into...". It's my mantra now. It feels good to not be an enabler of bad behavior. Our stories help people.

[UrsaMajor]

It feels good to not be an enabler of bad behavior. Our stories help people.

And if the stories don't help, a 2x4 to the back of the head might.....

[Father5]

   I know what you mean.

   I dated one person then I realized I wasn't ready and it was a mistake. But what did me in was when I figures out she blew up her family. She hadn't talked to her 16 yr old daughter in 3 years. She looked me right in the eye and said it was for the best. Needles to say i am done try to date anyone at the moment. That scared the crap out of me !

[Ready2Transform]

It feels good to not be an enabler of bad behavior. Our stories help people.

And if the stories don't help, a 2x4 to the back of the head might.....

  Tongue-in-cheek of course. Unless we're taking a field trip to Home Depot.

   I know what you mean.

   I dated one person then I realized I wasn't ready and it was a mistake. But what did me in was when I figures out she blew up her family. She hadn't talked to her 16 yr old daughter in 3 years. She looked me right in the eye and said it was for the best. Needles to say i am done try to date anyone at the moment. That scared the crap out of me !

UGH! It really is a mine field out there of possible (or likely) MLC. It's easy to be repelled by it when you're healthy. But it never ceases to be shocking to see it outside of our own marriages. Run!

[Ready2Transform]

Seven year cycles indeed. I realized just a little before midnight that it was seven years ago I was served with my d papers. What a wacky trip it's been. And now I also know that there was, for at least a time, a "spy" watching me here on HS for my xH and/or OW. And to think, I felt forgotten back then.  My only hope is that some of the information about MLC managed to soak through. I really don't care about the invasion of privacy - it is, as they say, what it is.

I never would have thought I'd reach apathy, but I truly have. There is still part of me that is resentful for my youth wasted. I'm allowing myself that selfishness. I know logically it wasn't "wasted" and that there were happy times in there, but it's helping me resolve to create the life I want now and set healthy boundaries with anything that threatens that.

[Nas]

Wow, time flies when you're having fun, right? 
You continue to be my #lbsgoals.

[Ready2Transform]

Wow, time flies when you're having fun, right? 
You continue to be my #lbsgoals.

  Oh the joy if it all!

And thank you, but there's still plenty to work on to get me to #lbsgoals status! It'll  get there.

[Anjae]

Interesting. Can't say I ever noticed seven years cyles in my situation.

No spies on HS for me. Which is good.

[LearningIamOk]

He served you with D papers and then sent a "spy" here to watch you? Talk about crazy. The MLCer doesn't want you in his life, but he's interested in what you're doing. I guess that's a "normal" MLC behavior.

[Savoir Faire]

MLCers want to move on but the LBS has to stay put.  I wonder what's fair about that

Going over to the Keanu Reeves website and see if i can attract a lovely man like him

[Ready2Transform]

Interesting. Can't say I ever noticed seven years cyles in my situation.

No spies on HS for me. Which is good.

I'm still kind of shocked I had one, but I'm so glad I know now and not back then. I would have freaked out! Now I'm kind of glad. As another LBS said to me, I know now that OW was fully aware of info regarding MLC and had a good background from all my posts as to who she was getting. It's on her what she puts up with.

He served you with D papers and then sent a "spy" here to watch you? Talk about crazy. The MLCer doesn't want you in his life, but he's interested in what you're doing. I guess that's a "normal" MLC behavior.

I'm almost leaning toward it was OW sending in the spy. That was around the time I was getting the hang up and 'silent' phone calls from her work place, plus her D was in progress. I think they were both nervous one of them was going to bail and go back to their spouse, and he hadn't lived in her city long enough to make her comfy he was there to stay. Plus he was such a "blurter" that, as the same LBS mentioned, he would have almost forced himself to say something to me about what he knew at our hearing. He definitely didn't act like he knew anything. And he had NO poker face, so I can only assume he was out of the loop.

MLCers want to move on but the LBS has to stay put.  I wonder what's fair about that

Going over to the Keanu Reeves website and see if i can attract a lovely man like him

Fair? In MLC? That will be the day! Please report back with Keanu info. I don't care of it's the John Wick version or "Ted" Theodore Logan at this point. He's still my best prospect!

[Ready2Transform]

From Terra over on the Shock Sis thread:

My question is for both you and also Anjae, NYM, and anyone else (former or recovering MLCer or otherwise) who has a bone to pick with the dynamics in the dialogue here.

While in MLC or during your recovery or return from the crisis, did people pick fights with you in real life, offline, the way some are doing here?

It's not having a bone to pick for me, other than not seeing why things escalated to a level that they did. I didn't perceive it as people picking fights. But I will say that yes, I had to deal with my $h!te. It was uncomfortable to have to be accountable. My father in particular, who is my closest friend and the person I refer to most here, was eager to blame everything that happened during my crisis years on my xH. For awhile, that was fantastic! But you can't change what you don't acknowledge. And so there have been hard days, even with my dad. He has pointed out my flaws, my mistakes, and the things that make me uncomfortable. I've had to work to change the perception I've left with some people, and others I've had to just let go.

Thick skin or not, did/do these “tough love” or criticism conversations help you in any way?

Yes. I was very sensitive my whole life, moreso during crisis, and post-MLC I've learned that it was a choice. I could wallow and feel sorry for myself that I was being "victimized" by others' criticisms or opinions of me, I could stand up for myself with my new voice, or I could set a boundary where it was suddenly super easy to not even give a damn. The me of ten years ago would have not answered this question for fear of judgment or retribution. Now, it is easy to voice my thoughts without any investment in how they are perceived. A total win.

Is this “tough love” or criticism approach something you have always had as your basic nature? Or is it something learned as a means of speaking your own truth and standing up for yourself, either in your own MLC or during your healing process as LBS?

Being more straightforward and vocal, even when it involves conflicting opinions, is more post-MLC. I was opinionated but repressed growing up (would be beaten if I expressed myself too much or stood up for myself), so I'm sure in a way this *is* my true nature I would have always expressed, had I not had that boundary placed over me. It feels more natural now.

And which is it? Did you learn this coping skill during MLC? Or did you establish it only as LBS and not during your own MLC.

Not LBS related, but I can't say it was learned *during* MLC. I think the work comes after, when you are whole and putting your life back together. It's a LONG process, and if you are anything like I was, you think it's over before it is. I really thought I was out in 2012. Maybe being an LBS delayed certain reintegration aspects, but the last year has been like a gradual eye opening that is another layer of the onion removed. I don't think I'd ever be defensive about it again, because who knows? Maybe I'm still not done. Maybe it's a lifelong journey and I'll just trust the process.

[Reinventing]

Here's an interesting article from an OW on their obsession with the LBS.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d891d6de4b0d2694652c58e

[Ready2Transform]

Here's an interesting article from an OW on their obsession with the LBS.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d891d6de4b0d2694652c58e

EEK! And she was writing that 7 years after the affair ended (weird synchronicity with my thread title, but also, why was all of that still so detailed?!). I have to admit I definitely spent my time online figuring out who I was dealing with (those that know me well know I became my own private investigator at times), but the intensity and the interest definitely wears out eventually. I feel like I need a shower now.

[Treasur]

Funny, but questions on another thread about healing and a conversation with a friend about someone he knows with a sex/drug addicted wife (one of those so extreme you wouldn't believe it stories but not an MLC one), reminded me today that part of healing is to get ones own 'yukometer' back. Bc I think for a while we forget what normal is for us when life gets infected by not normal for an extended period of time.

There is a simple truth I think that life doesn't need to feel like this....and that some things are just not healthy or happy ways to live. We each have our own individual 'yukometer' of course, but yup, this article isn't how I'd like to live or the kind of person I'd feel comfortable being. Seems to me that being able to own our own 'yukometer' without needing to persuade others to feel the same or excusing the yukness  is a big part of healing 

[UrsaMajor]

Here's an interesting article from an OW on their obsession with the LBS.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d891d6de4b0d2694652c58e

EEK! And she was writing that 7 years after the affair ended (weird synchronicity with my thread title, but also, why was all of that still so detailed?!). I have to admit I definitely spent my time online figuring out who I was dealing with (those that know me well know I became my own private investigator at times), but the intensity and the interest definitely wears out eventually. I feel like I need a shower now.

I had the same thought R2T after reading the article...

[Treasur]

A horribly textbook different kind of ow story here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7561927/Heartbroken-events-planner-killed-end-affair-married-man.html
A rather troubled and manipulative young woman, an unfaithful married man lying to her about their future, presumably a traumatised LBS and maybe kids, other people normalising an affair as a healthy normal relationship, nobody involved really seeming to think much about the damage caused to anyone from a whole bunch of dysfunctional self-centred choices....just horrible and makes my yukometer bounce into the red zone. Compassion does not remove the yuk feeling.

[Nas]

R2T, thank you for sharing your answers to terra’s questions from Shock and awe’s sisters thread.
I have my opinions on that whole thread, which I won’t share because no one is being respectful about dissenting opinions about any aspect of that situation.

Your response here proves that interesting and informative discussion CAN be had about this and other topics.

[Ready2Transform]

Funny, but questions on another thread about healing and a conversation with a friend about someone he knows with a sex/drug addicted wife (one of those so extreme you wouldn't believe it stories but not an MLC one), reminded me today that part of healing is to get ones own 'yukometer' back. Bc I think for a while we forget what normal is for us when life gets infected by not normal for an extended period of time.

There is a simple truth I think that life doesn't need to feel like this....and that some things are just not healthy or happy ways to live. We each have our own individual 'yukometer' of course, but yup, this article isn't how I'd like to live or the kind of person I'd feel comfortable being. Seems to me that being able to own our own 'yukometer' without needing to persuade others to feel the same or excusing the yukness  is a big part of healing 

YES!! Getting your brain back is the BEST reconciliation. We do suspend our personal integrity for a bit (or rather shift it onto those "for better or worse" vows - not without its own nobility, but certainly the mindset change and the cognitive dissonance it causes is a toughie to overcome). Even having friends who are MLC and/or having affairs - my modus operandi is to distance, not fix 'em, and protect my thoughts and personal codes first. Never losing that again.

Urs, LOVE IT!!!   

A horribly textbook different kind of ow story here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7561927/Heartbroken-events-planner-killed-end-affair-married-man.html
A rather troubled and manipulative young woman, an unfaithful married man lying to her about their future, presumably a traumatised LBS and maybe kids, other people normalising an affair as a healthy normal relationship, nobody involved really seeming to think much about the damage caused to anyone from a whole bunch of dysfunctional self-centred choices....just horrible and makes my yukometer bounce into the red zone. Compassion does not remove the yuk feeling.

Absolutely. So sad and needless! I'm glad this article focused on it as a mental health issue (for her - funny how they really gave the husband no responsibility in this for leading on a disordered young woman, but that's the society we live in). How sad for her family, who seemingly did all the right things in the situation. It sounds from the sister like she may have cried wolf before, which as we know from the histrionic OWs around here is not an unusual personality type for the MLCers to take up with.

R2T, thank you for sharing your answers to terra’s questions from Shock and awe’s sisters thread.
I have my opinions on that whole thread, which I won’t share because no one is being respectful about dissenting opinions about any aspect of that situation.

Your response here proves that interesting and informative discussion CAN be had about this and other topics.

Thank you, Nas! And feel free to share here if you want. We all grow from discourse (even when it's not just confirmation bias). I miss that about the forum.

[Anjae]

What you story. 

[KeepItTogether]

Thanks for your brutal honesty. My sister and a close friend form school are both on the tail end of their respective MLCs.  Funny, they were pretty much oblivious about MLC until now. Thankfully both are doing the work, though my sister vacillates between admitting her crisis and not. And I, like you, have taken a hands off approach to both.  No easy task!

SMH that OW cyber-stalked you on this site. Strange that all that "happiness" just wasn't enough for her.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your insights. And I love your outlook on life. I agree with Nas--you are definitely my#LBSgoals.

[Nas]

Y'all just inspired the title of a new discussion thread, lol...

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11163.new#new

[Ready2Transform]

YOU GUYS STOP IT!!  I hope my story can help. It's NOT perfect. Not by any means. Got a long way to go. But one foot in front of the other.

[Ready2Transform]

So good! Abraham Hicks 2020 %u2014 Leave The Past And Start Fresh (NEW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J864Tm2jnI

Only 15 minutes. Easy to listen to while you do something else. Don't let the title fool you - there is a ton of good info here on drilling down into how to get past hurts and beliefs that are holding you back from achieving what you really want and freeing others from the responsibility of changing.

[Ready2Transform]

Another powerful one that I needed to hear today, and maybe you do, too. "Don't Give Your Power Away To Anyone!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h8ZjkGvE5c

[Ggg4life]

These are great.  Thanks, Ready. 

[Ready2Transform]

Should probably change the thread title! Nine years ago today was not bomb drop, but it was the day he finished packing (wanting me to keep him company while he did it), packed up our only car, and headed off to live with his parents, like every nearly-40 year old guy whose off of his meds does. 

I'm not going to tell my story again. There are plenty of threads full of minutiae. But I will tell anyone who is new and looking to Trust the Process; not the MLC process - the GRIEF process. You deserve respect, and no matter how your situation resolves, I hope no one ever takes focus off of that for you again.

I've traversed a lot of inner and outer challenges since 2011, and they've returned me to the 'self' that I was prior to all of this mess, and a lot more. I joked with my father yesterday that I'm essentially the grown version of myself in junior high (he did not argue). I've turned my interests into my career, but ultimately I'm still passionate about those same things that make me me. It was very hard to see through the fog of anything other than my spouse's MLC fallout for so many years. But trust - the fog does and will lift. Don't give up - on YOURSELF!

I thank God, I thank my dad, I thank my pets and nature and the supportive world around me, and I thank all of my friends like you who were with me in my darkest times. There really was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Marriages and families are valuable. It is honorable to try to save them. It is what we vowed to do. But it is not failure when it doesn't happen. No other person is worth more than our connection to the Source we vowed to - remember that. Take them off of the pedestal and let them learn how to do this themselves. That's the kindest thing you can do for all parties, when it isn't possible to have them committed. Save your kids. BLESS you who have kids amidst this. Focus on their futures, and don't hold yours back either. The time goes faster than you expect it to, and you can't get it back.

Big love, hugs, gratitude, and hope to you all. You matter.

[Little Wing]

Thank you R2T

that is a beautiful post that makes me feel quite proud!

LW

[Ready2Transform]

Big hugs LW!!  You have so much to be proud of. Keep stepping. Know that the path will continue to meet you with places that feel better. You are a pillar of strength, but love yourself through it.

[HeartTattoo]

I will tell anyone who is new and looking to Trust the Process; not the MLC process - the GRIEF process. You deserve respect, and no matter how your situation resolves, I hope no one ever takes focus off of that for you again.

What a fabulous post, Ready! I hope every Newbie & those still hurting read this. I think when I joined there was too much emphasis on the MLC process--trusting it, wondering how long it would last (apparently forever for some of them). 

I joked with my father yesterday that I'm essentially the grown version of myself in junior high (he did not argue).

Seems funny, but then again, Not. Those of us who M'ed young, M'ed a HS sweetheart, were M'ed a long time--we've had to dig deep. My symbol is a silver spoon ring I bought as a teenager. I've worn it on the ring finger of my left hand ever since I quit wearing my wedding ring. Digging yourself out of coupledom is hard.

It was very hard to see through the fog of anything other than my spouse's MLC fallout for so many years. But trust - the fog does and will lift. Don't give up - on YOURSELF!

Yes, Yes, Yes!

There really was a light at the end of the tunnel.

And that light is ours!

Hugs,
HT

[xyzcf]

Great post Ready2transform.

Take them off of the pedestal and let them learn how to do this themselves. That's the kindest thing you can do for all parties

It is inevitable really that we move forward, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly and we transform. Some of that is also developmental. I am 65 and had  been really healthy all my life....now, I feel like physically I am falling apart..I still exercise, eat reasonably well, practice yoga and before COVID had an active social life...but my body doesn't get the message...and for the first time, I know that there are a limited number of years left..yes even at 65. I have already had 2 good friends die...and have had had some health issues myself.

And so living in the moment becomes really important and being grateful for all I have.

I do think that some of my "discontent" has to do with my age.....I wish I was a teenager again..the world was my oyster.

One thing that I think was not a good thing for me is I had stopped working in 2007, moved to Hong Kong and was discarded in 2009. I have not worked since...I have volunteer work and did have a 2 hour a week job until COVID hit..there were many reasons I didn't go back to work and at the time, I did what I thought was best but if I could go back, I would have gone back to work for I always enjoyed it.

Working would have given me a purpose...I just did not realize that and the years slipped away. Perhaps when a vaccine is available, I can be hired to immunize.

The years actually seemed to drag by, but indeed, they pass quickly.

[Ready2Transform]

I am so happy to see you both here, HeartTattoo and xyzcf!

I joked with my father yesterday that I'm essentially the grown version of myself in junior high (he did not argue).

Seems funny, but then again, Not. Those of us who M'ed young, M'ed a HS sweetheart, were M'ed a long time--we've had to dig deep. My symbol is a silver spoon ring I bought as a teenager. I've worn it on the ring finger of my left hand ever since I quit wearing my wedding ring. Digging yourself out of coupledom is hard. [/quote]

I *love* this. Like a totem. Individuating again, even when you never considered yourself (and I still don't) "codependent". You build a life *together*. That's not dependence, it's a team. But our completeness as people is still underlying.

Working would have given me a purpose...I just did not realize that and the years slipped away. Perhaps when a vaccine is available, I can be hired to immunize.

My heart leapt at this last part. If I could take my experience of knowing and learning from you over all of these years and put it into one word, it would be "nurture". You have this underlying energy of being such a giver and healer, even through the screens we know each other on. I know we collectively will inevitably be back to a new, more solid normal during COVID recovery, and I could absolutely see you being part of that process. I believe age is just a number, but I hear you. My father has several years on you, but he too longs to be back on a career path, for much the same reasons. The fall he took off of his roof a few years ago brought mortality to him in a bigger way that he kind of refused to contemplate to that point. It took a few years of really sitting with it and going from outright depression to getting his mojo back, so to speak. Now, he's regained a lot more vigor, clarity, and determination. I think his best years, honestly, are ahead of him. The way will present itself for you, I believe that.

[xyzcf]

Thank you ready for sharing that story of your father. I was so enjoying my 2 hour a week job as a nurse and another 3 hours a month that looked like it was going to develop into something else, using my background in health promotion and health prevention....staff and management referring to my knowledge and appreciative of what I had to bring to the organization.

I did not realize it at the time, but I was in a severe depression for a few years after BD and really did not cope well..not a surprise for those of you who knew me back then.

I feel the need to share tonight, and this may sound like I am spoiled and whiny and unappreciative...initially I was told not to work by my lawyer until a settlement had been reached for it would have decreased the amount of maintenance that I would get. The settlement provided me with adequate financial resources that I did not need to work, and indeed any income would be paid back in taxes due to the tax bracket I was in...I know, a "hard place" to be when most of the people on the site have struggled so much financially and lost so much.

But money as they say doesn't buy "happiness"....

When I am in my "nurse's role" and am using my education and experience to do something I was really good at, I am energized. I was fortunate to have found a career that I loved...every job I had, the people I worked with and the satisfaction I had from my work.

Mr xyzcf has gone on to be highly successful and work is his drug of choice...he's 66  and there is no "retirement" in sight for him..because the buzz he gets is way too hard to give up...

I liked that buzz too and yes, there can still be opportunity for me, especially now that the depression I experienced is somewhat resolved.

Our daughter seems to also have that same excitement and works way too many hours but she excels at what she does.

Thank you for your kind words..and as you said through the screen I can feel your understanding of where I am coming from, and that is a beautiful gift to me..thank you.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you ready for sharing that story of your father. I was so enjoying my 2 hour a week job as a nurse and another 3 hours a month that looked like it was going to develop into something else, using my background in health promotion and health prevention....staff and management referring to my knowledge and appreciative of what I had to bring to the organization.

Sounds like a perfect fit, and I'm not surprised at all you received proper accolades and validation of your abilities.

I did not realize it at the time, but I was in a severe depression for a few years after BD and really did not cope well..not a surprise for those of you who knew me back then.

It's not, but that's not a judgment. I'm sure many of us, I know for sure myself included, were clinically depressed for an extended amount of time. That's the thing we know about depression from all of our MLC studies, too - it likes to trick you into thinking it's not happening, telling you all of your feelings are "the way it is". It's why the MLCers won't listen, but we're not immune, either. I hit rock bottom leading up to my bankruptcy. I just couldn't keep the plates spinning. Even though I'm in a better place now, I am still considering some therapy, because maybe I'm in a better place to admit and face things and sort them out than I would have been in those darker times when I wanted situations to change instead.

I feel the need to share tonight, and this may sound like I am spoiled and whiny and unappreciative...initially I was told not to work by my lawyer until a settlement had been reached for it would have decreased the amount of maintenance that I would get. The settlement provided me with adequate financial resources that I did not need to work, and indeed any income would be paid back in taxes due to the tax bracket I was in...I know, a "hard place" to be when most of the people on the site have struggled so much financially and lost so much.

But money as they say doesn't buy "happiness"....

Big hugs! So much you've said here is so important. #1, MLC is the great equalizer. If we've seen anything it's that it doesn't care where you come from, where you're going, how many kids you have or don't, how long you've been married, how true your heart is. It hits like a tornado! Everything is relative, and no one should feel any shame for what they have or don't, what their settlements are or aren't. It should never be a suffering contest, because we have ALL suffered.

#2 is the reality of divorce, that even when you "win" by society's standards, there is always loss. Lawyers are strategic and have very clear cut goals, which is what they're hired for and why they're not therapists. Even with well meaning advice like this, you still had to sacrifice something you wanted, which isn't fair. You should be able to count on your life partner to do the right thing without having to prepare for them not to. 

When I am in my "nurse's role" and am using my education and experience to do something I was really good at, I am energized. I was fortunate to have found a career that I loved...every job I had, the people I worked with and the satisfaction I had from my work.

I hope so much that you can return to it soon. And not just with the "fingers crossed" approach, but with the nod that it's safe from our great scientists!

Mr xyzcf has gone on to be highly successful and work is his drug of choice...he's 66  and there is no "retirement" in sight for him..because the buzz he gets is way too hard to give up...

I liked that buzz too and yes, there can still be opportunity for me, especially now that the depression I experienced is somewhat resolved.

Our daughter seems to also have that same excitement and works way too many hours but she excels at what she does.

Not bad traits to have inherited. And that's not to make light of the cost with Mr xyz, as balance is important, too. Clearly! If something costs you everything, that cost is too high, and certainly, I'm sure you were not asking him for all or nothing. These extreme choices really are the hallmark of a bigger issue - or avoiding a bigger issue people don't want to turn inward and face.

I realize how lucky I was to know from almost the beginning of my life that I wanted to be creative, mainly in music and audio, but there was so much room within that to also build a life. Sometimes I've had tremendous success and other times I've been a total flop, but it's such a huge part of my identity that I just accept the ebbs and flows without ever thinking of changing course (as with my former marriage). I realize my xH did not have anything he felt that way about, despite trying anything and everything. He still seeks a path he will likely never find, and it really does make me feel bad for him. I would not want to be nearly 50 still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

Thank you for your kind words..and as you said through the screen I can feel your understanding of where I am coming from, and that is a beautiful gift to me..thank you.

Thank YOU for that. And big hugs, always, friend.

[Treasur]

I joked with my father yesterday that I'm essentially the grown version of myself in junior high (he did not argue). I've turned my interests into my career, but ultimately I'm still passionate about those same things that make me me. It was very hard to see through the fog of anything other than my spouse's MLC fallout for so many years. But trust - the fog does and will lift. Don't give up - on YOURSELF!

This was a lovely and very timely post for me, Ready.
Funnily enough I was chatting yesterday to a new neighbour chum (who is stumbling through some big life challenges, trying to protect her kids and feeling a bit numb from years of depression and FOO stuff) about whether there is such a thing as a Core Self. (She sees it in her kids but isn't sure she has one....)
And of course psychological opinions differ on it.

My experience fwiw is that it does exist. Bc in my darkest times, I felt the absence of it enough to doubt I'd ever find it again. So logically, if there was a lost self feeling, there must have been a self there before to lose right? And that lost self was so much bigger and deeper than basic GAL type stuff. Finding her again....or more accurately perhaps feeling her come back.....was the real source of my (slow and ongoing) recovery. I couldn't really do much with my life until I had a Me to do it with if that makes sense. 

My core self (aka Babe-ish lol) is not very different from who I was at 6 or 16 or 36. I might deploy her in different ways wearing different hats with different people. She was hidden away for a while bc she was just overwhelmed and frightened by a world that made no sense to her and that seemed to despise her. But she is much the same as she always was and I am profoundly grateful that she came back. I like her and I trust her.

PS and fwiw I agree with you about xyz as a nurturer and healer.....the world needs healers right now of all shapes and sizes, and I hope xyz that you find a place to use yourself in a way that honours all that experience, skills and tbh the kind of love that good nurses have in their bones.

[Acorn]

Thank you, Ready, for sharing your perspective after all these years.  We could do with more such updates!

You said:

But I will tell anyone who is new and looking to Trust the Process; not the MLC process - the GRIEF process. 

I echo that wholeheartedly.  I am yet to grasp what ‘Trust the MLC process’ means, anyway.  And that’s even after having been an observer of a stay-at-home MLCer for many years.   

Besides, how can you trust someone else’s process over which you have no control?  So, you are absolutely right — trust our process.  Work through our own sorrows, focus on making every day count, and reap the benefits.  Sit on your hands, watch MLCer, waste precious time you can’t get back, and forfeit personal growth. 

May I be so bold to say, ‘Never mind the MLC process.  Trust work you put into yourself and your children, and the benefits thereof.’

The following quote played on a loop in my mind.  It was a rather sobering message for me when I was practically a single parent.

If you bungle at raising your children, then nothing else you do really matters."
--Jackie Kennedy Onassis

[Ready2Transform]

Hello Treasur and Acorn!

My experience fwiw is that it does exist. Bc in my darkest times, I felt the absence of it enough to doubt I'd ever find it again. So logically, if there was a lost self feeling, there must have been a self there before to lose right? And that lost self was so much bigger and deeper than basic GAL type stuff. Finding her again....or more accurately perhaps feeling her come back.....was the real source of my (slow and ongoing) recovery. I couldn't really do much with my life until I had a Me to do it with if that makes sense. 

Absolutely makes sense, it could not resonate more! All of it. That "come back" feeling is everything. It's going home again. I feel like we are on the same page with the MLCers of the loss of this identity (and I still feel I had my own crisis, but certainly nothing like my xH's), but I wonder for at least some of them, if that path back to self is just permanently gone. I may be projecting too much onto them. Maybe it's a discomfort or wounding of the core that sets this all in motion? Will we ever know? Luckily, it's not necessary to know. But it would be interesting.

Thank you, Ready, for sharing your perspective after all these years.  We could do with more such updates!

You said:

But I will tell anyone who is new and looking to Trust the Process; not the MLC process - the GRIEF process. 

I echo that wholeheartedly.  I am yet to grasp what ‘Trust the MLC process’ means, anyway.  And that’s even after having been an observer of a stay-at-home MLCer for many years.   

Besides, how can you trust someone else’s process over which you have no control?  So, you are absolutely right — trust our process.  Work through our own sorrows, focus on making every day count, and reap the benefits.  Sit on your hands, watch MLCer, waste precious time you can’t get back, and forfeit personal growth. 

May I be so bold to say, ‘Never mind the MLC process.  Trust work you put into yourself and your children, and the benefits thereof.’

YES! It's so dangerous to apply absolute thinking to enigmatic things. We could even parallel COVID to this right now, since it too does not seem to behave the same in everyone. If we made assumptions (which, I hate to say, in some countries we still are) that if you catch it, you'll likely be asymptomatic, or just have flu-like symptoms which heal in two weeks, then it's back to normal - it would become even a larger crisis. If we hope for the best but plan for the worst physically, economically, and socially, we mitigate some of the damage or at least aren't shell shocked and can act quickly.

Realistic contemplation leads to realistic choices and a more solid reality you live in. Ignoring any issue and pretending it will go away on its own, to me, is a sign of our own possible childhood wounding where maybe things came up that took our power? Was kind of the case for me. And certainly, who wants that for their own kids now? They need a stable parent. It's not making light of how difficult that can be to become in the face of this, but we have seen more parents than not here on the forum who, 3-5 years down the road, are happier and healthier because they got through those uncertainties with determination to keep life sane for their kids, no matter what their spouse was doing. My hats off to all of you who made it through, and those who are making it through. You guys are superheroes!!

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Always a pleasure to read your post and the keen insight you bring to the LBSer.

there is no "retirement" in sight for him..because the buzz he gets is way too hard to give up...

I liked that buzz too and yes, there can still be opportunity for me, especially now that the depression I experienced is somewhat resolved.

Great line, it is interesting in the similarity but glaring in one difference; for Mr. Xyzcf, his buzz is about his own success whereas you get the buzz from others success. So no matter what, he takes and you give. Always admired two big things in you Xyzcf, your powerful faith and how well you stick to your moral code.

But I will tell anyone who is new and looking to Trust the Process; not the MLC process - the GRIEF process. You deserve respect, and no matter how your situation resolves, I hope no one ever takes focus off of that for you again.

Gosh, do we all seem to move as we grow. I spent a lot of time on trying to understand the MLCer. To become an expert on MLC so I could help the LBSer. However as time has passed, this isn't about the MLCer. It is about helping the LBSer. That's who I respond to and that is who I am trying to help.

Marriages and families are valuable. It is honorable to try to save them. It is what we vowed to do. But it is not failure when it doesn't happen.

Oh my, when I got divorced, I couldn't come back to the forum as I felt like a failure. It took five years from the divorce to almost being remarried to return to  the forum. I was very nervous since I was remarrying. Wow, what a stander. I was so happy in the responses I received. I slowly began to unite two different extremes; I can grieve the death of my marriage, but celebrate the reclamation of my life.

Always so good to hear from you and the advice you bring.

((((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs))) from the really, really old

Ready

[HeartTattoo]

I am 65 and had  been really healthy all my life....now, I feel like physically I am falling apart..I still exercise, eat reasonably well, practice yoga and before COVID had an active social life...but my body doesn't get the message...and for the first time, I know that there are a limited number of years left..yes even at 65. I have already had 2 good friends die...and have had had some health issues myself. And so living in the moment becomes really important and being grateful for all I have.

I do think that some of my "discontent" has to do with my age.....I wish I was a teenager again..the world was my oyster.

One thing that I think was not a good thing for me is I had stopped working in 2007, moved to Hong Kong and was discarded in 2009. I have not worked since...I have volunteer work and did have a 2 hour a week job until COVID hit..there were many reasons I didn't go back to work and at the time, I did what I thought was best but if I could go back, I would have gone back to work for I always enjoyed it.

Working would have given me a purpose...I just did not realize that and the years slipped away. Perhaps when a vaccine is available, I can be hired to immunize.

The years actually seemed to drag by, but indeed, they pass quickly.

XYZ,

I really feel you on the aging thing. I just turned 67 & ever since my breast cancer surgery & radiation three years ago (I'm doing fine), I have had less stamina & have had other annoying health problems. Having my gym shut down in the spring didn't help & I lost motivation to do things I could have done at home.

We had such long M's & had thought our lives were on a certain trajectory & then WHAM! at or near 60 our lives were in tatters. Health problems are scarier & lonelier without a partner to share the stress. 

I had been away from my nursing career for quite some time & I knew that I would eventually have to find work if (I kept hoping) or when D came. I could not have started a new job during those first two years. I was really in a state of mental/physical/emotional breakdown. Even after 2 1/2 years when I did start a nursing job I still could not focus well & my poor preceptor was so patient that we finally got me fit to return to hospital nursing. But I just couldn't continue the 12-hour shift schedules with my decreasing stamina. Covid has derailed not only plans for some sort of part-time work, but the usual retirement activities like volunteering & social groups. Social isolation & its negative effects are an effect of Covid precautions that we sometimes don't want to acknowledge & are hard to deal with.

I know we see time slipping away, but I try not to lose hope that our social connections can once again resume. And we have HS as a powerful example of how virtual support can be very powerful in our lives.

Hugs, XYZ!
HT

[xyzcf]

Thank you HeartTattoo...nodding my head at every word you said!

HUGS back to you!

[Ready2Transform]

For any of my woo woo friends who like Abraham-Hicks, here's a useful one titled, "THE MORE YOU RESPOND TO CONDITIONS THE LESS CONTROL YOU HAVE": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kAj22YmyE

It deals with a spouse situation, is only about 15 minutes long, and will probably resonate with more than a few of you!

[forthetrees]

Thanks, seems like a blend of yoga´s equanimity and qi gong´s chi energy.

[Ready2Transform]

My "7 Year Cycles" thread has been archived inactive at 13 pages at some point, so I'll just start a new one. Combine with my old one if you want to.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10102.0

Sorry R2T. The last update was a year ago so I archived it in keeping with having threads that are a year inactive being archived. I have merged the two so it will be another year before this happens again <snort!> - UM

This Abraham-Hicks quote this morning seemed like a good one to share:

I Have Complete Control Over My Own Thoughts… You can find yourself in an endless loop where you explain that you feel negative because of the negative behavior of someone else. But if, instead, you take control of your own emotions and you think an improved thought because it feels better to do so, you will discover that no matter how the negative trend got started, you can turn it around. You have no real control of what anyone else is doing with their Vibration (or with their actions, for that matter), but you have complete control over your own thoughts, Vibrations, emotions, and point of attraction.

This month with be the 10th anniversary of BD2 when I finally confirmed the affair my xH had been gaslighting me about since prior to BD1 just a few months prior. It's weird how much has changed since then (except my bathroom, which still needs to be remodeled!  ). I am satisfied that his life with the OW is karma completely of his making. I still have my theories on what happened overall, and they mostly look like my first impressions of the situation.

[Nas]

YES, to hell with endless loops - they do nothing but make you dizzy and nauseous.

Hugs to you, R2T, your compassion and your thoughtful, realistic approach have been a huge inspiration to me and many others!

[Curiosity]

Hugs to you, R2T, your compassion and your thoughtful, realistic approach have been a huge inspiration to me and many others!

Seconding this! All of it, really… getting out of that cycle of loops is one of the most important parts of healing. I still find myself in one here and there, but escaping the constant turmoil is so important. There are so many wise and wonderful people here offering insight, and I appreciate every one of you. R2T, you have chimed in on my threads and have always given me really vital insight.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you both for that! I would not be here were it not for others farther along that paved the way for me. Paying it forward, when I can, is its own medicine.

[MadLuv]

What is that saying….The best revenge is happily move on and let karma do the rest 😉 I will join in others in appreciation for all advise and knowledge you have give me as well. And the bathroom……I have one as well that remains on my to do list. I feel I am going to blame the delay on the amount of BS I needed to flush out before I start a new. Hey, much got blamed on me that wasn’t my fault. I think it is all fair in the end. 😂🤣😂

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you, Tornup! There's no end to the "bathroom symbolism" of MLC.    Way back in my threads is the story of the night of BD2, when while I was screaming at xH on the phone after finding the receipt for the wedding band and necklace (my birthstone!) he'd purchased for her at our favorite antique store months before on Valentine's day, a basement drain suddenly backed up. First time ever. The energy in my house at that moment felt like it literally drew all of the sh*t in the neighborhood and placed it directly under my feet! 

On a later call, I told him what happened and that "there were things more pressing than your drama" - and he got MAD! Like he was jealous of the sewer. I do not miss that. 

[Evermore]

Thank you both for that! I would not be here were it not for others farther along that paved the way for me. Paying it forward, when I can, is its own medicine.

Coming out of the woodwork to agree with the others in thanking you R2T and all the others here for continuing to share their support and learned wisdom even years out (in fact that’s where I find most value I think!).

[Ready2Transform]

Coming out of the woodwork to agree with the others in thanking you R2T and all the others here for continuing to share their support and learned wisdom even years out (in fact that’s where I find most value I think!).

Thank you, Evermore, it is good to "see" you! I agree with you too (thanks to others) who showed that the farther out and more detached you are, the more you can really glean from this experience (no matter what the outcome). I think there will always be processing happening, even after you hit acceptance. As you change as a person with time, so does your history a bit, or at least, how you think of it.

Sorry R2T. The last update was a year ago so I archived it in keeping with having threads that are a year inactive being archived. I have merged the two so it will be another year before this happens again <snort!> - UM

Never an apology necessary! But just out of spite I'll be clocking in once a month with some sort of inspirational quote and/or dirty limerick. 

[Nas]

Never an apology necessary! But just out of spite I'll be clocking in once a month with some sort of inspirational quote and/or dirty limerick. 

😂😂 This thread just officially became where it’s at! 😂😂

During grad school while planning my wedding, I got lazy with my poetry lesson plan and assigned dirty limericks to a group of late teens/early 20s.😂 The results were exactly what you’d think…ah, good times. 😉

[Ready2Transform]

Let's get the party started...

An MLC man from Nantucket
Made a list before kicking his bucket
"Be a rock star, a Priest,
Start my own French milice"
Then he drank too much booze and said, "I love you but I'm not in love with you."    Or something else.

[Evermore]

Let's get the party started...

An MLC man from Nantucket
Made a list before kicking his bucket
"Be a rock star, a Priest,
Start my own French milice"
Then he drank too much booze and said, "I love you but I'm not in love with you."    Or something else.

Well that didn’t work.

How aproptriate.

🤣🤣🤣

[Ready2Transform]

Well that didn’t work.

How aproptriate.

🤣🤣🤣

Spoiler alert:  nothing ever does. 

[Nas]

I haven’t written a draft yet that isn’t NSFW but if I do, I’ll post it. 😉
😂😂😂😂😂😂

[KeepItTogether]

Let's get the party started...

An MLC man from Nantucket
Made a list before kicking his bucket
"Be a rock star, a Priest,
Start my own French milice"
Then he drank too much booze and said, "I love you but I'm not in love with you."    Or something else.

LMAO! Love it.

[UrsaMajor]

OK... Just remember.. YOU started it!

"There once was a Mid-Lifer from Wales (no insult intended to the Welsh, I just need it to rhyme!)
who's Replay was WAY off the Scales,
They spent tons of money,
found their Schmoopie-Honey,
and moved through the tunnel like a snail.... "

Thanks - I'll just show myself to the door now... 

[Nas]

Wow UM, well done - you definitely would’ve earned an A in my class, lol 😂

I’ve been stuck in an infusion chair going on 2 hours and I have chills and nausea and can barely see straight, which I say yo excuse my lack of originality…but here’s the only one I’ve come up with that’s, shall we say suitable for public consumption. 😉
For all the boomerangs and clinging clingy clingers:
An mlc man 🤡 in replay
Says I’ve just got to go my own way 🏃‍♀️
But he’ll still come and go ↕️↔️↖️↙️↘️🔁
While he spends all your dough 💰
Eating cake 🍰 till you take it away

[MadLuv]

Ok, here is my weak attempt!

There once was a MLC’r living in a fog
They left their spouse, kids and the dog
In and out of the tunnel they went
Much money was to be spent
Then the awakening was soon to come
They decided the alienator was dumb
So back to the spouse they came back with a pout
But the spouse had moved on with no doubt

[Flabbergasted]

Hahaha! Love this!

Okay, here’s my attempt (I’m Dutch, so please forgive me if it’s not right):

A midlifer from Amsterdam
Said I don’t even know who I am
So he had some tattoos
Rode a bike and drank booze
While posting selfies on Instagram

His exciting new girl wore a thong
And the age difference didn’t feel wrong
But out of fog he came
And he said full of shame
Now I know I was me all along

————————

A man during midlife in Dallas
Called his wife saying he’s with his mistress
He said in a bliss
“It is what it is”
As he picked his new flame up from school class

[Ready2Transform]

    Oh I love y'all!!!! These are all fabulous!! Isn't it wonderful to be able to smile again?

[MadLuv]

YES, thanks for that. Nothing like humor to get out of your own head!!

[Thunder]

Hey these should be in our "Hallmark cards for MLCer's" thread.  Ha ha

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7947.0

[UrsaMajor]

Limerick writing for the LBS
Is so much fun, I do confess
But we can't let successes
go to our head
You've hit post 150 -
you need a new thread.....

[Ready2Transform]

Limerick writing for the LBS
Is so much fun, I do confess
But we can't let successes
go to our head
You've hit post 150 -
you need a new thread.....

HA!!! Should we switch to haiku next?

Hey these should be in our "Hallmark cards for MLCer's" thread.  Ha ha

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7947.0

I feel like it's time for the graphic artists amongst us to have fun with this, too. And that thread reminded me that the Soulmate Schmoopies cartoons are no longer on YouTube. If anyone ever finds an alternative link, please let me know. Those things were the best! Since the creator of them was also an LBS, I'm sure she probably just moved on with her life. But how I'd love an update to how the MLCer, OW, and her cats are doing. 

See y'all next thread!

[Ready2Transform]

New thread!! https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11866.0