[Schratz66]

Well, I think I finally arrived at the acceptance stage and quite frankly instead of the peaceful feeling I expected it feels like a fresh death.

Old thread  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11104.msg751852#msg751852

Quick recap.
BD June 2017 via text - OW is High School Sweetheart - first year almost no contact, second year more regular contacts and I got my hopes up just to face reality now. He is gone, has been gone and while still confused, he might be gone forever.
Until now I bathed in that lovely pink bubble of denial and hoped and hoped and dang I am all out of hope now. Not sure what caused this sudden realization but it's here and its raw and cold.

I is now that I feel I stand at the graveside of my M and wonder what to do now.
What do I want to do with my life ?
Will I be lonely forever ?
I don't want to date and I do not want anybody else in my life, and I do keep busy and have friends, but I miss having my person. My ride and die buddy, my sexy H that still gave me butterflies after 17 years, my shoulder to rest on - I miss him dreadfully and I miss the intimacy of knowing somebody so well that they've become a part of you.
Where to go from here - I have no idea, so I will just linger and figure things out one day at a time.

Thank you everyone for still riding along this long and windy road that nobody knows where it leads to - I appreciate everybody on this forum more than I can ever say

[UrsaMajor]

Attaching

[Whyus]

Where to go from here - I have no idea, so I will just linger and figure things out one day at a time.

Schratz, i am so sorry that you feel like this but it is perfectly normal. The reality can be overwhelmen and you see Questionmarks everywhere. Please dont "linger", Keep rolling, Keep your head up and soldier on. You will be just fine, you are strong.

[3longyrs]

I truly do know how you feel Schratz...These are the times when you must have faith,have faith that Gods will will be done no matter what it is...

[AlvinTheMaker]

Attaching... 

Idk if I'm at the same stage as you, but "feels like death" strikes the chord big time.  Be kind and gracious to yourself.

Alvin

[Treasur]

It is normal, dear girl.
And it does seem to work a bit like a funeral first. And feeling like a widow. Which sucks, feels weird and is very difficult to explain in RL.
But we will walk with you and this time will pass, I promise.

[3Boys4Me]

With you Schratz, I’m at the same place, same timeline, same emotions, same stage, and yes, it feels like a new death. Maybe though, this is your LBS bottom, from where the good stuff grows. That is my prayer for you.

[Thunder]

S,

I don't think Acceptance is a bad thing, not at all.  I believe it has to happen for your healing to really begin.

It's facing reality, no longer fooling yourself, and maybe the feeling of it like a death is because you had to ditch those rose colored glasses finally.
It's more the death of your innocence, which I honestly think we all have to do eventually.

The innocence your marriage held is gone.  The is the one thing all these MLCer's take from us.

You are going to find your way S.  I have no doubts about that.  You are a strong woman.

Hugs

[KeepItTogether]

S--acceptance is a very important, albeit painful, part of this journey. But I have found that once we feel that pain, it is easier to move forward. Change is painful. Hoping there is a bight rainbow at the end of this metamorphosis. I know there is.

[SteelSpine]

Wow, yes.
When you get to that point in grief where you say “This happened.  It really DID happen.”
And then you face the grief head on, with open eyes.

I am sorry for your loss.

[FearNot]

I'm so sorry that you are suffering. I know this is painful and seemingly never ending, but it is a step in the right direction of your journey. It does have to happen and it's not a bad thing, just a really difficult thing to work through, but you will. You will get through this and heal. It might be baby steps, but they are moving forward. Go at your own pace S66. God does have a plan, we don't always know the in and outs of it, or why it doesn't align with what we want for that matter, but He has a plan for you and He's got you covered!!  Big Hugs!!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN

[xyzcf]

For some of us, time doesn't seem to make a difference in how we feel, how much we miss them and how we are still attracted to them.

Acceptance that I feel this way and that there is NOTHING wrong in feeling this way is how I live now. He is still very much a part of my thoughts and I see him as well......so what is there to do but accept that I do not know what is going to happen in the future and try and live each day in a place of contentment.

I have tried many many things to block him out of my thoughts, it is just not going to happen for me.

Seems a bit cruel that we cannot just shut the door and walk away, heal and resolve whatever feelings we once had...but MLC is such a bizarre situation to be in...especially when they pop up in your life...and you can feel that connection even for a moment again and you know, they feel it too!

Holiday time makes it all more acute.

[Maleficent]

Schratz, continuing to walk this long and lonely painful road with you.  It does feel raw and cold, but I look at those who traveled before us, and they are at a better place in the journey than we are now.  Both of us need to peek at the sun a little more and look for those rainbows.  Hugs.

[Milly]

Schratz, I was thinking about the title of your thread, and I'm going to agree that acceptance feels like death. Reaching the acceptance place is needed, though. I'm kind of there at the moment, and am relieved to be here, but it is a sad place too, because it's a place with very little or no hope. It's a place of having to let go of the dream of our Hs coming home. And it has nothing to do with whether our Hs wake up or not, it's to do with us, we reach a place where it's all over. There will be mourning at this point. I'm at this place now, too. I'm grateful to be at this point, I'm hoping if I get through this mourning stage, I will be freed up of my love/waiting for H. I'm hoping this will be where my co-dependency might end.

I have no magic solutions to feel better, just wanted to share my thoughts. xxx

[stillbaffled]

Continuing on your journey with you, S66.  I'm sending support and encouragement.  The way through is tough and sometimes I wonder if there is an end to it.  I just keep moving forward and living one day at a time.  Maybe that's how it will always be.  I don't know and I try to just stay present in each day and live it to the fullest. 

[FamilyIsMyGoal]

Hi Schratz,

I've been away for awhile but am so glad to be here now and read how you are doing.  I think you are so incredibly strong.  Good for you to get to this stage.  I can imagine it's tough (I'm not quite there yet) but so brave of you.  I like what Milly said, that "it has more to do with us, we reach a place where it's all over."  You are amazing and strong!  Just keep doing the next right thing for yourself.  xoxoxo

[Schratz66]

Thank you everybody for still coming along with me - I cannot say how much your words of support and wisdom mean to me.
I think these MLC know when we are getting to a better place where we try to heal.
They must smell it in the air....

Had another friendly chit chat visitor at my desk again this morning - no reason...just stopping by.....he still cannot look me in the eyes, but it's no longer the dead shark eyes it was before so I guess his guilt is wearing off. Still as clueless as ever on how these stop-ins affect me but today's wasn't as bad as others.
I haven't fled to the bathroom yet and hopefully i wont as I have a job interview this afternoon and I don't need to show up as the red eyed Goobly Gook.

Still no clue why he feels the need to stop by - other than to see I am still where he left me or to prove to himself what a great guy he is since he can be amicable with me, but in the end I will never know nor does it really matter.

D came home for Semester break and we decorated our Christmas tree and have been making homemade gifts and it has been nice to have company.

I hope everyone here is able to get some joy out of the Christmas season no matter how small - my daily joy is to look at my daughter and be grateful she is alive and well and that we have a roof over our head, food in the fridge and money in the bank.

[barbiedoll]

Be proud Schratz of who you are and who you are becoming . You are indeed as strong as women come and I admire how you have walked this incredibly painful path. And still you are on your feet and doing what mom's do. I know you have suffered and I am so very sorry. Christmas will have some hard moments but there is a new year on the horizon and great things come to women just like you .

Yes, stops to chat could be for many reasons as you stated . I also would find that incredibly painful but your actions prove you are getting stronger and stronger . We have many similarities . I remember being at work at getting an email from him to my work computer. The truth is ..I made my co-worker ( a great friend) open it and read it . My hands just shook and indeed end up in the bathroom just a mess. I went zero contact ..never ever called him, saw him, answered him or responded . I just could not have anything to do with him , the shock was that deep. So, you can tolerate visits to your desk ...I am in awe of how you manage it . YOU have come a long long way my friend.

[Seahorse]

Acceptance - yes, what a strong word.
So powerful and so necessary.
Attaching S66.
Sending Hugs

Sea

[Schratz66]

Last Day of work until New Years and we have Ugly Christmas Sweater Day and a gift exchange and I was all Ms Positive Pants and was going to have a great day as MLC normally skips Fridays at work. Should have known....first thing I see when pulling in is his truck which means he is heading to OW for Christmas straight after work.
Why that still hits me like boulder smashing me to the ground - I don't know. But it does and I blame the holiday hormones or something as I am sitting in the bathroom at 8.04 am with my Christmas Sweater crying bitter tears of loss and love and grief.

I just want to go home or run away or crawl in that cave

[Milly]

Oh Schratz I’m sorry. I know that pain you’re feeling. Nowadays when I have confirmation of my H going to Ow, I tell myself ‘good! The more time they spend together, the more my H’s OW becomes annoying the more they fight. And I no longer believe their Christmasses are lovey dovey. When you have years of Christmasses one way (with us) where they loved Christmas, there’s no way they don't compare or feel nostalgic. Even if they have a pleasant Christmas, I think we become an elephant in their room.

I hope you wore your sweater into work and let good people surround you with cheer and laughter. Shake it off, Schratz, or imagine swinging a giant dustbin lid on your H’s face when he comes to mind. That’s what I do. Mine is a big stainless steel round one.

[Seahorse]

S66 -

Your post made me so sad for you.
We try so hard to put on a "happy face".  It sounded like a great start of a day, only to be ruined by what you saw.  I'm so sorry that you got sad seeing his truck in the parking lot.  It's amazing how these things hit us when we think everything's under control.

I hope that the rest of your Friday goes well, and that you don that Christmas Sweater like nobody's business!  You're the queen, whether you feel like it or not. 

Hugs,
Sea

[Treasur]

66 - no way round it, loss and grief just sucks. And jumps up and smashes you round the head out of nowhere sometimes. I get it. I hated the grief, really hated it, hated the me doing it, so I am not going to BS you about it.

I heard a podcast say that it isn't just the loss of the person....a betrayed spouse listed over 120 things that he thought he had to work through grief about after a long marriage. And they reconciled but he had still lost those things anyway......grrr. But he also said he thought he had to look at his losses honestly in order to know he was actually grieving and accepting and making peace with.

But here is what I learned is also true.
It feels like it might but grief will not kill you.
It is possible to have grief and a kind of low key calm of small pleasures in the same day.
The grief is about the last chapters of acceptance....but after acceptance comes new hope for different things. Like spring after winter. It always comes.
This break of time is a gift for you. No need to see his fake smarmy pathetic face. No need to pretend anything to anyone actually. You can do as much or as little as you want...just try to keep on with that hunt for small pleasures bc they turn into a snowball of peace and even joy with a little time.
And how Christmassy is that right? X

[Schratz66]

Milly - you made me laugh out loud - and I shall picture that trash can lid now.....thank you so much

Sea - thank you so much

Treasur - as always you are so wise and I know wisdom comes from pain and loss and I very much appreciate your view of things. And of course it's not just the person we grieve, it is all our aspects of our lives that no longer are.

Back out of the bathroom now - tears wiped off and mascara reapplied - head held high with my ugly Christmas sweater and I am trying to stay in the moment surrounded by fabulous co-workers and great food and many laughs.

[Seahorse]

S66 - Great recovery!
Have an enjoyable pre-Christmas day with your co-workers.

Save that trash can lid for later!

Sea

[Treasur]

And there you go, 66, well done you 

[FearNot]

You go S66! Way to bounce back! Big Hugs! I can kinda hear the clang of that giant lid connecting when need be!!

[Schratz66]

If you need proof that MLC are looney - picture this.
H is spending Christmas with OW and her family and yet at 930 am he thinks about me and sends me the generic Merry Christmas schratz66!!!

Why not either be all in with her or leave her ?

He is still stuck between two chairs - neither all there nor here.

It has to be exhausting to them.

Me, I know who I love and who I want to be with and that hasn’t waivered in 25 years. It’s the one thing I’ve always been sure of.

[Seahorse]

Yes S66 - That's MLC!!

They want what they want, and expect that it is normal and okay.
A bit of self=focus on his side - thinking of you evenjhough he's left you.
Pretty typical, I think...

Hope that your day was wonderful and that the text this morning didn't throw you too far for a loop.

Sea

[FamilyIsMyGoal]

Such entitlement, right?   It's all about who he wants contact with and not about who he could be hurting. You are awesome Schratz, so strong!  It takes a really strong person to be able to go through this with love in your heart.  You continue to inspire me.

[Schratz66]

Not much new to report other than I am glad the holidays are over. Same bland, generic greeting at 9 pm on New Years eve to have a Happy New Year - first one he wished me in 3 years...of course for a second I thought why isn't he with her on New Years eve...then I remembered that it doesn't really matter where he is as long as he is still not with me.

Finished another 5k and the my biking group ladies and I have booked our next girls trip in April....D is heading back to school for her last semester and I am still focusing on staying in the moment, appreciating all my blessings and rediscovering my faith.

[3Boys4Me]

Thanks for the update Schratz! We’re you running and biking before BD, or are those things you have taken up since? I love to hear about how people have incorporated GAL activities!

[FearNot]

Congrats on your 5K and cheers to booking another! Having something to look forward to helps! Your doing awesome S66!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN

[Schratz66]

Thanks Fear...
3Boys - I did not take up running or biking until recently...as a matter of fact - I was not a fan of exercise at all - but I had to find something to wear me out physically and make me concentrate on physical pain rather than emotional pain. So, when I am riding up hill and my lung hurts and my legs want to fall off, at least my heart and soul is not hurting. And biking I could take up without being in shape....now we have a Thursday evening biking group of 5 ladies and we ride about 15 miles and then go out to eat - it's a lot of fun.

D is back at school and as always the first few days of being alone again are hard to get used to. And so the monkeys are running free range and dragging up past conversations about him wanting me in his life and him loving me and blablabla and none of it matters as long as he is still with her...…
Heavy heart but hopefully tomorrow things will be easier again...….

[Finding Joy]

Schratz, Your words are so relatable.  What a great outlet for you!  Why do these MLCers often say these things while still with another women.  Crazy.  Haha, I don’t have that problem, mine always tells me he doesn’t love me.  I’m not sure which is worse.

Anyways, I hope you have peace this evening.

[Schratz66]

Strangely I am struggling more now that the holidays are over. Could be stupid Valentine’s Day and all the hype coming up or could be being alone again.
Could be seeing his truck again at work each day.

I do try to stay busy but how do we ever get rid of this loneliness, the yearning for our person...

[Milly]

Oh, Schratz, I hear you. It is so hard to stop that lonely feeling. But January, post Christmas does make it so much harder. Accept that it's this time of the year and it will pass.

Your very clever idea to bike to stop the heart pain by covering it with physical pain was brilliant. Your girlie group of bikers is wonderful. You are doing so great. Give it more time for your heart to forget a bit more, and for your wonderful activities to make you feel good about yourself. My experience has shown me that whether I tried or not, the passing of time kept easing my pain. It will happen to you, too. That yearning feeling will gradually fade. And I'm not associating to the MLCer. It has nothing to do with whether the MLCer will deal with their crisis or not. Whatever they do, eventually we will hurt less. That is a good thing.

Keep doing what you're doing. You'll get there.

[FamilyIsMyGoal]

Wow Schratz! A 5k and biking!  I'm so impressed!  For me, the no contact has been easier to handle.  I can pretty much do that we just communicate when necessary through email.  Also the fact that he is a mega-monster helps as well :-).  So please give yourself credit for the fact that you are dealing with seeing him or his truck often and you are handling things really well despite that.  When I find that I am dealing with my MLCer overly much for some reason, it sends me into a bit of a tailspin.  So I think you continue to be awesome!  Don't underestimate the trauma we have been through.  I'm pretty sure we all have PTSD, so be gentle and compassionate to yourself, you so deserve it!  xoxo

[Schratz66]

Thank you Milly and Fam,
I do hope it is just the time of year and I do hope that with more time this loneliness will pass just like the gut wrenching pain eased with time as all the brilliant LBS on here told me it would. Of course it still hurts, but its more of a chronic, low level sadness most days with occasional gut wrenching flare ups.
Fam, i do believe we truly have been traumatized and have PTSD.
I also firmly believe in the mind - body connection and that too much emotional pain can manifest itself in disease, which I really do not want, so I keep trying and trying to let go and let God. Some days more successful then others and I really do think that once I can find another job away from him and the truck, I could let go a little bit more.

A friend of mine said that she thinks that I have to actively become friends with MLC to show him what he is missing. I always reply when he contacts and I mirror his style, but I am not ready to keep contacting him to try to strike up a casual buddy friendship. 

D settled back in at school - her final semester and she is so excited to graduate in May. On a sad note we just found out that the other grand-rat has a tumor as well and only weeks / months to live. So many losses these last few years it makes you not want to get attached to anything any more.

[KeepItTogether]

Can I join you please on the "I hate Valentine's Day" parade? OMG. Hearts everywhere. I want to puke.

About actively pursuing a friendship with H? Hmmmm. I agree that closing him off is not productive. But I am not so sure any kind of pursuit is good in the MLC realm. You can be kind and patient and loving in response to him. But otherwise, let him be. Reach out to him only if you are genuinely guided to do so. For me, it was reaching out to H on the anniversary of his grandmother's death. I knew it was a very difficult day for him so I reached out. And then let him be as you have been doing. You need to heal too.

Hugs friend. 

[Maleficent]

Schratz, Just following along and thinking of you and the loneliness and sadness you express.  Outwardly, though I think you are doing admirably and I am envious of the girlie bike group (but I never had the balance to bike.  I am using yoga for the same physical focus you mentioned to drive away the thoughts). 

I agree with KIT, just take it slowly and respond graciously as you have so as not to pursue.  But, nothing wrong with those heartfelt reasons to express human caring.  Your instincts about not becoming a casual buddy seem sound. 

I am sorry about grand ratty and I understand how you feel about attaching to anything now.  Will D move closer to you when she graduates?  Can you plan a nice way to celebrate her graduation that can bring you both together with joy? 

[Schratz66]

Thank you KIT and Mal - I appreciate your wisdom and yes, I will reach out for his upcoming birthday with a casual Happy Birthday but nothing more.
Sometimes it seems like we make little progress but it is in the small things I notice that I am moving along.
Saw his truck again today and ran into him in the hallway and he just said: How have you been and I just answered I've been doing good and kept walking. The same co-worker that suggested purposefully pursuing a friendship with MLC happened to watch the brief encounter and said it seems we are both awkward and walking on egg shells.
I just replied, i didn't create the awkward and walked away.
 
Long story short - as a codependent previously I would have monkey brained and thought of ways to make things unawkward. Possibly reaching out and apologizing for the awkward situation.
Today - when the thought hit me....I just thought - I did not create the awkwardness, I have done nothing to contribute to the awkwardness and it is not mine to fix. Yes, the fixer in me wants to fix it, but no, new and improved schratz won't let her. I have nothing to apologize for and I do not need to reach out to him and explain away awkwardness. So, some times I can see small little steps to growth within me.

Mal - D would like to teach in the school that she is interning in which is 3 hours away and I would love for her to do that because she loves the kids and the rural setting and all. We do plan on having a nice graduation and a fun mother / daughter trip this summer...she just cannot decide where she wants to travel to

[KeepItTogether]

Well I for one am so happy you opted NOT to apologize for the awkward encounter. I mean, it is awkward. You are married. He cheated. and now you are separated. If you are comfortable with that situation, you may need to have your head, or heart, examined.

I have many awkward encounters with H. They are all pretty superficial. And then sometimes he goes in for a hug and I freeze. B/c maybe we haven't hugged in a year. Oh, and he has a girlfriend. And right, we are still married. LOL. My point is, it is going to be awkward until it isn't. I'm glad you gave your fixer self a break form that. And what good advice for me too b/c I often apologize to H for stupid things I had no control of. Fixer  party member over here too.

You are absolutely growing my friend. It's hard to see when we are so close. But I have seen much detachment in you over the last year. Hugs friend.

[FearNot]

S66- Realizing that the awkwardness is not yours to fix is a big step, I think!! Nothing easy about changing the patterns of fixing that seem pretty much hardwired into us "fixers". Kudos to you my friend! Well done!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN

[Schratz66]

Not unpacking in Pity land, and I know I will be just fine....
Just some days it still hits me like a load of bricks that the one person that I had known for 25 years, the person that I trusted more than anyone, the person that I would have laid my life down that he would never hurt me, the person that I thought had integrity and courage.....that that person betrayed me in the most cowardly way - it still boggles my mind some days and today is one of those days that I wonder how I could have been so wrong about him.

But back to the regularly scheduled program of focusing on finding another job. Looking forward to another 5 k event tomorrow and then next Friday off to see grandrat and D.

[Thunder]

It's ok S, I think that after shock does hit us sometimes, doesn't it?

Like wtf happened?  Then it goes away.
It has to be one of the most confusing conditions ever!  Even though I rarely think about it anymore, I know I will truly never understand it.

Good luck on your race!   

Hugs

[Acorn]

today is one of those days that I wonder how I could have been so wrong about him.

I beg to differ, Schratz...
It’s not that YOU were wrong about him. 
He is so wrong about himself right now. 
He won’t be right about himself until he wrestles with his issues and resolves them.  It’s all in his hands.

In the mean time, Schratz will keep running her 5Ks and literally move forward.   Hugs.

[xyzcf]

You were not wrong about him. Every one of us could say the same thing about our spouses...how it was impossible to ever consider that they would do this.

MLC. It is real and it is the reason why they are so unrecognizable.

Hard for us to "believe" this because in many ways they "appear" normal and function well in life.

I get to see my husband, I actually spend time with him and on the surface he seems sort of normal but then I see, I see things about him that are just so darn unusual and strange.

Something happened to them Schartz....it is a tremendous loss and our grief for once was is very normal.

The thoughts are bound to come into our minds....when I read all the stories I have read over the years, and have people in real life who are also experiencing this, I know without a shadow of a doubt that MLC happened. We are unfortunately the collateral damage to their crisis.

[Treasur]

today is one of those days that I wonder how I could have been so wrong about him.

I beg to differ, Schratz...
It’s not that YOU were wrong about him. 
He is so wrong about himself right now. 
He won’t be right about himself until he wrestles with his issues and resolves them.  It’s all in his hands.

In the mean time, Schratz will keep running her 5Ks and literally move forward.   Hugs.

Acorn is quite right.
How can anyone know the damaged bits of another unless they share them with us? Your h is lost to himself right now. You were right and normal in your love and trust and liking for him based on the man he was then. It is not wrong to trust and love imho or to adapt when things change.
What matters now is how YOU get and stay right with yourself. Let him go with God and your prayers while you stay right with you, my friend. And you are doing just fine. X

[Milly]

Oh, Scharatz, I've felt just like you so many times: today is one of those days that I wonder how I could have been so wrong about him. It took me a very long time to realize that the person I met at first seemed like a good man. We didn't knowingly choose to marry bad people. They appeared good when we met them. We are not stupid. This MLC can make us question our capacity to judge a good man from a bad one. But our Hs were not bad when we met them. Their issues developed over time and then something caused the crisis to occur. We all have little damaged bits about us, but that doesn't mean we will destroy others because of it. Our Hs are profoundly damaged. We don't know if they will ever heal because only they, the damaged one, can provide the cure. But that doesn't mean that we could have known that this would happen.

Have a great race. Blank out your mind of the MLC stuff and just focus on your now. Smell the flowers.

[Maleficent]

Schratz, Right there alongside you, although not on the 5k.  Hope it went well!

The others all spoke more eloquently than I can, but just wanted to say hello and echo their thoughts.

Treasur's sentence spoke volumes to me today -

How can anyone know the damaged bits of another unless they share them with us?

[FaithWalker]

Hey S66!  I'm sorry to hear about the grandrats, and the squirrel.  So sad.

I've been missing you all and trying to catch back up.  It's so crazy to me that March is right around the corner.

You definitely didn't make it awkward, he did.  So yes, it's not up to you to fix it.

[Schratz66]

Thank you again everybody for your responses and Welcome back Faith.
Not much has ben going on - had some good weeks just running, doing 5ks and enjoying time with my friends, applying for more jobs and just living life as best as I could. D did retake the big exam and passed and so now we can start looking forward to graduation in May.

Last week my mom was admitted to the hospital in Germany for suspected fluid in the lung, which turned out an incorrect diagnosis - they ran all kinds of tests and the matter of the fact is that from 30 years of heavy drinking her heart muscle thickened and her heart is getting weaker affecting her lung. While in the hospital, my brother (who normally has no contact with mom) decided to show up and visit her with his newest girlfriend.
Of course he is still married and of course his wife is unaware and he put my mom in a horrible position, because she was an LBS and started drinking because of the entire OW situation with my dad and here is my brother flaunting his newest conquest and expecting my mom to be happy about it.

Currently debating if I need to fly overseas to see my mom - my brother says yes, my mom says no because there is nothing new wrong with her - they are just adjusting her medication for her heart. It has been a very emotional few days to say the least. So, then today - during my lunch break, I check the oil in my care because it is old and burns oil and I like to stay on top of it. I guess MLC saw me from afar and yelled if I had trouble with my car. I just shook my head, closed the hood and went back to my office.

And this is where it happened. For the first time in almost three years since BD - I got mad. I am angry. Truly and honestly angry at MLC. How dare he ask and pretend to care if I had car trouble? He had not cared if I even had a car, if I had food in the house or if my D is even still alive for three years and he has the nerve to casually ask if I have car trouble. Remember when I was always envious about those LBS that were angry because i thought it would be easier....well, I am angry now. Angry at the way he left, angry at the selfishness, angry at him lying in November about things coming to a head with OW (which of course caused expectations in me),  angry about being thrown into this survival mode that none of us asked for.

But, if I look at it this way - I must be moving forward, healing and doing something different for this anger to appear. Not sure I like it - it still gives him too much space in my head and I do not like being angry. Hoping it is just a momentary flame of rage that will settle back down to me just living my life while he is doing whatever. I am not sure he will ever deal with his issues, so chances of him returning are pretty slim to none, but I have found a decent way to spend my days and enjoy life.

Thank you all for still hanging with me.

[Thunder]

Sorry hon, but sometimes this anger needs to come out.  I believe it is perfectly normal and healthy.

What he has done to you was unkind and you did nothing to deserve it.
I'm glad you shook your head and left.

It is none of his concern if you are having car trouble, is it?

Good for you.

[Maleficent]

Hi Schratz,
Good to hear from you- I had been wondering how you were doing.  And, I'm with you on the anger. It has come late to me as well. But, there's something to be said for necessary anger when they "pop in" when we least expect them- not there for any of the tough awful things and then they play Mr Nice Guy.  I am not comfortable with sustained anger, but I cannot get rid of it right now- just like grief bursts, I am having anger bursts. I think it is one of those necessary stages of recovery.

 And, I'm sorry about your mom and her health problems. I wish she weren't so far away from you. Maybe you could try to get over there and see for yourself. Sending good thoughts.

Congratulations to your D on her exam.  Great news!

Take care of yourself.

[Treasur]

Took me a long time to feel angry and stay angry. I didn't like it much but I agree with others that it is part of the healing process. Imho, there are two types....a kind of rage that you want to direct at them and a kind of FU feeling which is fuel for detaching more and focusing on your own life. I found writing letters (never sent) and raging at him in my head while doing something physical was a good safe sane way of getting the first out! The second type helps you see how useless and pathetic his 'faux' concern is and that you deserve so much better. It helps you see the current reality. All healthy to feel. Normal.

Sorry to hear about your Mum. And your brother sounds like an MLCer with the normal 'Me, me' insensitivity. Is he?Sorry if so. Don't know what your relationship is like with your Mum, but would you feel better if you planned a visit? Maybe not a hospital visit if she says it's not an emergency, but a nice one for both of you to look forward to? What does your gut instinct say about it? Or is there something else you can do for your Mum that will add to her wellbeing or happiness long distance?

[Whyus]

Sorry About your mam …. its a shame that your dad sent her Spinning and that your brother doesnt see that he is doing exactly the same Thing.
You have every Right to be Angry and that can be a good Thing if used correctly. It can certainly help with healing  .

[FaithWalker]

Sometimes anger propels us forward where we might have otherwise felt stuck.  As long as anger isn't a permanent residence but a place to reside temporarily.  I did go through an angry phase about 8 months after the D was final.  I did not want to see him when he came to get the kids, and since we were living with my B's family, I left with the excuse that I was driving around checking out house listings for our upcoming move out on our own.

[Schratz66]

Thank you all for your kind responses. My mom is out of the hospital and Germany is on lockdown so no incoming travel is allowed. I hope and pray that we will all stay healthy through this virus and that I will eventually be able to see her again. Poor D five year long hard work and dream of walking across the Graduation Stage for her Masters degree has been ruined by this virus as well. She is devastated and if the schools remain closed she will not even have a job now. She had to move back in with me as the college down closed down all student appartments and I try to be positive about this entire Virus mess but I do understand her frustrations.

Meanwhile I came to the conclusion that all MLC are just a bunch of NitWits…..honestly......had not heard from my MLC since November when he said he missed me and wanted me in his life and how the R with OW is about to collapse and Blablabla……..four months later I get a 2 am email: Are you and D okay ? My reply: Not really, but we will be. No reply from him for two days and then this: Your email (it wasn't an email - it was 6 words) was confusing. Has something happened ? If not I am sorry to have bothered you schratz.

What the...…..Not sure where he got confused by simple 6 words...NitWits…...and at this point, I just do not care any more about walking on egg shells. I was still refrained in my reply which said: You are not bothering me. A lot has happened and is happening but there is no need to worry about us as I am sure you have enough to worry about with your new family.

I wasn't trying to be b!tc#y, but you cannot just care about me and D once a year and then expect a complete run down of what is going on in our lives or pretend to care. Dang - that just rubbed me the wrong way and I am not sure if it is detachment or what, but I am not in the mood to play games any more and pretend everything is just rainbows and unicorns. If he wants to take that as me being difficult - so be it. Who cares. It's not like he is truly concerned about me or D.

Anyhow.....I just hope that all of you are staying safe and healthy in these crazy times. Love to all of you

[Seahorse]

Schratz -
Following along.
It seems, to me, that your H was probably restless with guilt and felt obligated to reach out?
2am??  Who does that??
Probably a little of his own monkey-braining.

Take it for what you believe it to be.
Let the anger settle and work through it as you are able.
I also agree that it's a normal phase; as long as you don't get stuck in it.

I'm sorry about D's graduation and job.
This stupid virus has certainly disrupted schools and employment.
I hope that your mother stays safe given her weakened heart.

Hugs,
Sea

[Finding Joy]

Schwartz-I have had those feelings before and have been there for many months.  Yes, it is the beginning of detachment and moving forward.  Of course it’s not linear, but it shows you are getting your feet under you!

[Thunder]

Dang S, kind of put the ball back in his court, didn't you?   

I'm glad you are at the point where you can stop walking on egg shells.  That is detachment.

Well I'm sorry about your D, but just both of you and your mom stay safe.
Your D will be fine, she is young and has a bright future ahead of her.

Hopefully they find a vaccine that wipes this virus out!

Hugs

[KeepItTogether]

Ah yes, the 2am guilt-mail. "I'm sorry to bother you." I've received that one too. Always the martyr.

I like the way you put it--that they up and left our lives and stay away without any care. And then expect a complete list of everything that has happened b/c it suits them at that time. It is ridiculous and I too am at the point where I just don't care if H is informed or not--only if it somehow affects S. But yes, considering H's feelings is something I have had to force myself to stop doing. Not easy b/c we did care about them for so long. And still do in some respects--well the old version of them anyway. Current versions are mindless, selfish a$$hats.

Sorry about D. So disappointing. This virus is forcing us all to adapt in ways we never thought we would. Like MLC, I like to think it will make us stronger.

You are doing great--happy your mom is doing better too.

[Schratz66]

Next email from MLC after I said he need not worry about us but worry about his new family...…..
'Ok, now I am worried. I can't stop worrying like a switch...What is going on ? I hope, so hope you are both healthy'

Really ?? We could have been in the hospital for the last 3 years and he wouldn't have known, but really Now, he can't stop worrying...…
Just wow. He has lost his mind clearly.....

Unbelievable

[xyzcf]

A slightly different opinion. Because they had a crisis and left us does not mean that they stopped thinking about us or indeed stopped caring about us.

Checking in during this time of uncertainty isn't something to be alarmed about. It's not a contrived thing.

Whatever has happened to their brains and hearts, what we can never understand or fathom and what causes us incredible pain....there is something of their original "goodness" still within.

I know we debate all the time as to whether they know what they are doing or not...and that is not the reason I am writing this. But we did not totally disappear from their lives...even those vanishers...we have no idea what goes through their heads.

I am sorry that he hurt you S and we are already under enough stress...but many are and will reach out.

I guess if we don't want to hear from them at all, then we make a resolution to discard any communication without looking at it.

[Maleficent]

Hi Schratz, good to hear from you and I am glad your mother is doing better. I hope that you can see her soon.  And sorry about your daughter's graduation setbacks - only bright spot is that she is now home with you and that must be a comfort.

The 2 a.m. email was just another unbelievable moment.  Alongside you. Not at 2 AM, but I've been getting some of those guilt-ridden "how are you" text messages lately as well. I would like to believe as xyzcf says that there may still be a memory of goodness left in them, but… My head keeps spinning, too, best not to think. Hard to keep looking away from them when they pop back into our lives when unexpected. Glad you are starting to detach.  You do sound good.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Sorry to hear about the graduation. My son is like your daughter and devastated. He will finish his BS in Biology in June.He was looking forward to the ceremony and celebration. My youngest daughter finishes her BA in graphic design this summer and could care less about the graduation ceremony.

I came to the conclusion that all MLC are just a bunch of NitWits…..honestly......had not heard from my MLC since November when he said he missed me and wanted me in his life and how the R with OW is about to collapse and Blablabla…

Well, I can agree with you that all MLCers are not noted for making wise decisions. It's like if they all played Let's Make A Deal, no matter what door they picked, they would always pick the loser. That would be easy, but I think the raw emotions of anger and fear- especially fear, drive them to such irrational decisions. Deserting families, getting involved with other people, disappointing their friends and families, all creates a person driven by guilt and fear. A pursuit of eternal happiness that can never be found let alone sustained for any lengthy period of time.

In many ways, it is like they go to war with themselves and when the troops first go into battle, everything seems great, but when you look back at the destruction around you, it is really hard to determine a winner or loser amongst the carnage.

That is why it is important for you to think and live as if he is never coming back. You are not his shadow, but he can become yours as he is not even close to being a man or father at this time. Keep the good you felt for him alive by doing what is best for his family. You are now the rock of the family and you will ensure that you thrive in his absence.

((((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs))) and congratulations to your daughter on her degree.

Ready

[Schratz66]

Thank you xy for your words - I do think they still care - it is just odd that under every day circumstances they suppress the caring but now seem on high alert. And while I feel like I am beginning to detach some days - moments like these show me that I have still so far to go and I am keeping my promise to always reply to him when he reaches out as he has with me.
Thanks Mal for understanding the head spinning and not being able to look away - shows us that we are still hoping even just a teeny tiny bit that maybe this is not the end. Just hang in there my friend.
Ready - I am sorry for your son missing out as well - my daughter never dreamt of a dream wedding but always of her graduation - but it's just one of those things where there's not much we can do about. You are hitting the nail so straight on with the picking a door and it's always the wrong one - and it is always the wrong one because they are still not realizing that the prize is within them. And my MLC has always been easily guilted by his family and always been in fear of disappointing people - I called him the great fence rider jokingly, but that's what he always has been. Never wanting to disappoint and yet, by never making any firm decisions he disappoints everyone and himself all around. He does not know what he wants any more today than he did 30 years ago or three years ago when he left. I am sure at the time he thought he did, but like you said, they are chasing the eternal tail and it will never end.

On the bright side with this virus I have noticed more parents spending outside time with their kids and each other. More people on their porches just talking across the street like in the old days, so yes, KIT - it will make us all stronger and I hope that a lot of people will realize what truly matters and what doesn't. Not counting on our MLCs to see the light, but......

Everybody stay safe and healthy

[xyzcf]

And while I feel like I am beginning to detach some days - moments like these show me that I have still so far to go and I am keeping my promise to always reply to him when he reaches out as he has with me.

This word "detach" what does it mean really? I do not believe that I can ever totally "detach" and I am ok with that. My love for him continues but it doesn't hurt me as it once did.

Each of us will determine for ourselves what is right for us. Perhaps with "practice" contact no longer shakes our world like it once did.

Like you, I reply when he contacts me. At times I will initiate contact, a birthday greeting, a joke I think he would enjoy.

I do not see any "harm" in doing this. It is who I am and who I want to be.

He is a human being. A broken human being. What he has done, he will live with the consequences of that.

I wish this had never happened to us but it did and I had to find a way to accept and survive and find joy again without denying the love we once had.

You'll get there S...you have come so far.

[UrsaMajor]

This is one of the great HS debates - what IS "detachment?"

Some people seem to think it is not caring about the Mid-Lifer (what would really better be termed "indifference.")  I think RCR defines it more as unhooking your (the "royal your" here and not your specifically XYZ) own emotional state from that of the Mid-Lifer - detaching yourself from their Rollercoaster - so that your emotional state is not dependent on THEIR emotional state.

I tend to agree with that definition because then it is possible to still have feelings for the MLC'er while not allowing those feelings to rule our lives because they are not reciprocated by the MLC'er towards us.

The opposite of love is NOT hate. Hate means that you still feel something. The opposite of love is indifference....

[Evermore]

This is one of the great HS debates - what IS "detachment?"

Some people seem to think it is not caring about the Mid-Lifer (what would really better be termed "indifference.")  I think RCR defines it more as unhooking your (the "royal your" here and not your specifically XYZ) own emotional state from that of the Mid-Lifer - detaching yourself from their Rollercoaster - so that your emotional state is not dependent on THEIR emotional state.

I tend to agree with that definition because then it is possible to still have feelings for the MLC'er while not allowing those feelings to rule our lives because they are not reciprocated by the MLC'er towards us.

The opposite of love is NOT hate. Hate means that you still feel something. The opposite of love is indifference....

For myself I am aiming to put my H in the same 'place' in my mind that I put my kids. When they are grumpy and difficult or have tantys or have occasionally said they hated me, I take no offence and don't take it personally. I know they were just being upset or overwhelmed toddlers or ratty teens. I didn't/don't like all their decisions, but I accept that they're their decisions to make. It doesn't affect how I think of them, our relationship, or myself. It's a 'stepping back' or 'zooming out' and seeing the big picture type of feeling. When I can manage to put my H in that same 'place' in my mind (just loving him as he is right now and accepting that he's off doing what he thinks will make him happy even when that makes me so unhappy) it really does feel far more peaceful. I can love him from afar and wish him well on his journey. It's when I am 'zoomed in' on what he's doing and how f*ing crazy this all is and how very hurt and sad I am and how much I miss him, that I just swirl around and around and feel like I'm down in that pit that is so hard to climb out of again. I don't manage it for long stretches at a time, and often slip back into the 'zoomed in' pit. But it is slowly, with determined practice, getting easier to 'zoom out'. 

[FearNot]

S66,
I think xyzcf, UM and Evermore have said it well  . Nothing I can really add.
I am sorry to hear about your daughters graduation, and all the others that are facing that huge disappointment. Perhaps you can have your own celebration of sorts. I know it won't be the same but it is truly worth celebrating! I hope your mom is doing well, staying healthy and in a good mindset. This is such a challenging time for our seniors as well!
I think it's pretty cool to see how some are reconnecting, creatively occupying their time and being reminded of what is truly important in life. Stay safe and healthy 

Big Hugs N Prayers,
FN

[Maleficent]

Hi Schratz, Have not heard from you in awhile- everything okay? Did your daughter finish up her program? Hope all is well.

[Thunder]

Hi S!

It's been awhile since we heard any kind of update from you. 
I think of you often and hope you are doing well.

I hope this means you are just busy with life.   

{{Big Hug}}

[Notinlimbo]

Attaching. I hope you are ok.
Attaching so I’ll be notified if you do an update.
Xx Not

[FaithWalker]

Thanks for resurrecting this!

Schratz, we miss you!

[Schratz66]

Wow.....and I apologize for being gone for almost a year from this forum, but I had needed time away from thinking about MLC all the time. Here is just a brief update. Really not much has changed......I spent last summer riding a total of 5000 miles (7500 km) on a road bike and just enjoyed being outdoors and feeling the sun on my skin and being at peace. Still working in the same building as MLC, however, during CoVid we were able to work from home a lot and only ran into him once. That one time a coworkers who witnessed the run in said he was 'smitten' with me and clearly looked for interaction.....he told me about his mother not being well and his brother falling down drunk and becoming paralyzed and how unhappy he was with work. I just gave pleasant answers and went on my way.

I lost my mother late last year and it has been a difficult few months. Somehow he found out about my mother and wrote several long emails and I just replied briefly and politely to all of them. It was the first time since BD that he even asked about my daughter which was odd.
This year will make 4 years since BD and last month was the first time that I did not wish him Happy Birthday because quite honestly I was just not wanting to deal with overthinking and reading into everything. 10 days after his birthday......he emailed me saying he just read an old love letter from me and wanted to die. He said again he hated work and things with OW will come to a head soon (remember - same story almost 2 years ago and it never did come to blows). I just asked why he even kept the letters and he said he kept everything because it means something and he would not throw that away. I just replied that I hope he wasn't going to die and left it at that.....he replied he hopes I don't either.....

Sounded to me like an anchor check since he didn't hear from me for his birthday and while he sounds a little bit more like himself - he still has no idea what he wants in my opinion. Of course I still love him, but I have no expectations at this point of him coming back.

Just wanted to check in and let Newbies know that we are never completely off their minds no matter how long ago BD was.

I hope to see some of my timeliners on here still so I can check on them and see what's going on. Love and Light to all

[barbiedoll]

Schratz!   How wonderful to see your name !  I am grateful for your update and you sound confident , calm and full of acceptance ! I know ( and remember) how very difficult this road has been for you .   But here you are still pedalling forward ! I always knew you would ! So happy to hear from you !

[beyondblessed]

Schratz....you sound fantastic!  I am so happy you are continuing to move forward in growth and acceptance.   I'm sorry to hear of the passing of your mother.  I hope (and I am sure you do) you have the love and support of family and friends to ease the loss.

You are handling the brief interactions with your H very well.  Detachment is a wonderful feeling.

[Treasur]

I am sorry too for your loss. Lots of dark days for lots of folks this past year, and grief is tiring so I am so glad to hear that you have been taking care of yourself and enjoying your bike adventures. Hopefully, with more to come soon. 

I had a good day here too, out in the sunshine weeding and prepping my allotment for almost Spring. Who needs a gym lol?

You sound like a different woman, 66, and we are all thrilled to hear it. Your h...not so much  ....but as UM might say, not your farmyard and not your cow poo, right?

[Nas]

Schratz, you sound well and I'm so glad to hear it, but very, very sorry to hear about your mother. 

[xyzcf]

I am very sorry for the loss of your mother. It is a very hard loss, the loss of our mothers.

Glad to see your update. That's  lot of cycling! I imagine it feels so freeing. Do you belong to a cycling group or is this something you do on your own?

I keep telling myself that I need to cycle, I have a bike but somehow never seem to get up the nerve to get on the bike. The thing I enjoy most is golfing and I really hope that I'll be out again soon. I belong to a league of about 80 ladies and they are really a great group of people.

Just wanted to check in and let Newbies know that we are never completely off their minds no matter how long ago BD was.

I totally agree with this. I also feel they are very confused in their head. Impossible to figure out. As you seem to be doing really well, you accept and build a life of your own that is peaceful.

COVID threw a big wrench in my life.....the biggest being unable to cross the border to my family. Psychologically this has been very difficult for me but I am trying to have patience until I can see my daughter again.

I am very pleased to hear that you are well 

[Seahorse]

Schratz - nice update, and I also am sorry for your loss.
H is “smitten” by you eh?
GLad that you don’t put too much weight into that thought - actions speaking louder than words and all.
But, it must be nice that it appears that way.

Perhaps he is slowly getting through his crisis. 
Time, as always, will tell...

Keep posting...

Sea

[stillbaffled]

Good to hear from you, S66. 

Life does, indeed, keep right on moving and it's our choice to move along with it, or stay stuck.  Five thousand miles would indicate that you're moving along pretty well! 

Drop by when you can.

[Anon]

Schratz - nice to read your update and even nicer to read that you have been GALing for more than a little while now.     Your bd was just a day or 2 before mine in June 2017.   And your h sounds like he’s pretty much where my h is almost 4 years later,,,, still nowhere cooked.   I love how you handled your last encounter with him!   

Re: your friends comment.  He could well be smitten with you but if he’s still in MLC, that trumps all else.   My friends have said similar things and get all excited, but they are thinking he’s normal and if he’s acting smitten that means he’ll be back soon.  But we know better this far out from BD.   Without deliberate actions it is meaningless.   One day you may see those deliberate actions so hang in there and keep living your life packed with things you love. 

[Maleficent]

Schratz,  Missed you. So good to hear from you.  You sounds amazing.  In a much better place than last year.  Am still a bit behind you in terms of time and recovery, but so happy that you are finding peace. We both crept around that abyss together. 

Agree that we are never far from their thoughts, despite the distance.  And regardless of "smitten" or not, yours may seem to be remembering some of the good parts of your life together.  More good than bad. 

Am so sorry to hear of your mother's passing.  Not sure we ever truly heal from that loss.... Hugs.

[Milly]

I'm really sorry for your loss, Schratz. Thank you for coming to update us on your life. Well done on all your cycling last summer.

[Seahorse]

Anon and Schratz - I'm right there with yo on the timeline, only about a month earlier.
...  Not that this means anything about where our H's are...

Sea

[UrsaMajor]

Hi Schratz,

I have merged your old thread with this one for sake of continuity.

I am SO sorry to hear about you mom's passing.

As far as H being "smitten..." all I can say is "let him be smitten.... "

[FaithWalker]

Great to hear an update S66!  I'm so sorry that you lost your mom this past year.

Putting on miles on the bike, I am jealous!  I would love to learn to ride a motorcycle but with my eye issues it's definitely not a good idea.

As for your MLCer, sounds like he's cycling a bit.  Interesting that he's reading your old letters and that he mentions your daughter.

Just keep letting him cook and you do you.  (((HUGS)))

[FearNot]

I am so sorry to hear about your mom's passing! You sound good! Nice to see you again!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN

[Philadelphiagirl]

Hey 66, really good to read an update from you. You sound great. I'm really sorry to hear about your Mum. Take care, PG xxx

[Notinlimbo]

Hi schratz.
I also took at least a year away from the forum. I was obsessing about mlc and it wasn’t healthy.

I’m the one whose husbands ow is his ex from 1984.
It’s now six years since BD. Ow hasn’t left her partner. H hasn’t got anyone. He’s no use to me as he still wants her. I’m very sick of it but the thought of someone else in my life is stomach churning.

Your doing well. Keep it up. The lack of contact between you two is a good thing for your sake but in the contact your having your doing well.
Xxx. Notinlimbo.

[Schratz66]

Thank you for merging my threads UM and thank you all for your kindness regarding my mother's passing. I missed all of you, I really have.
Today, monkey wrench out of nowhere. The leadership in our agency decided to move some offices around and yes, you know it, MLC office was moved onto my floor. As calm and collected as I seemed and felt most days, this throws me....to be forced to see and hear him on a daily basis will be hard. Within the first few minutes of the move, he was already over here wanting to be chatty.....of course I was polite and replied in a courteous manner as I would with anybody else but did not ask any questions nor did I elaborate on anything.
Send me positive vibes if you have some spare ones laying around....on the bright side I have another job interview next week - hoping to be able to get out of this building.
My friend and I just signed up for our first in person race of the season .....5k run, 4 mile kayak and 10 miles trail riding on the bike.....running is the hardest part because well, I am old and lazy....lol.....but to be ready we have to run daily for the next three weeks......
I will read up on everybodys story and hope all are hanging in there ....this truly is not for the faint of heart and remember when I hated the word 'time' .... now like all of us old timers it's the best advise I have...it just takes time.

[FaithWalker]

I'm so sorry that he got moved to your floor.  That has to be very hard.

Sending you good vibes on the job search!

[xyzcf]

Oh dear, that is not an easy thing to deal with.

I wonder, we do everything we do to avoid them and then something like this happens.

After 10 years of living "abroad" Mr xyzcf landed back in my city, a place he swore he would never come to. At one point I thought about moving..you would think after all this time it wouldn't matter but it does. It was easier for me when he lived in another country.

I hope that you can find another job although it makes me angry that you are the one that feels the need to leave.

And yes, they will find every excuse they can to be chatty, when it suits them. There seems to be no recognition that this is uncomfortable for us and to stay away.

of course I was polite and replied in a courteous manner as I would with anybody else

That is how I am too. I think too, because he lives here now, if our daughter visits (well not now of course) it's for such a short time that to only see her 50% of the time she is here doesn't sit well with me..so he is included and he's happy to hang out in my house when she is here.

[Schratz66]

I have to admit him being moved to the same floor as me was very difficult for the first few weeks. Just hearing his voice and seeing him threw me back quite a bit and tears were shed and breakdowns were had. It's been 2 1/2 months now and while I did get a few job interviews - unfortunately nobody can match my pay and I have to look out for my retirement so quitting is not an option. On the bright side though I am getting back into the being able to accept and not let it get under my skin and just focus on me and my work.
over the last 4 years - the in between contacts has always been a few months....yesterday I was eating lunch in the breakroom and he walked in to get a drink and just made a general remark to other people being in the room. I did not respond as it was not directed to me and was just a general small talk......well, sure enough.......5 hours later  his email...... " I knew you would loathe me eventually - hope you are well - I will make myself sparse if it helps'
Sigh....eye roll.....really ? Your pride get hurt? Hours later I just replied that i did not loathe him but that he seems uncomfortable so I try to stay out of his way and asked where he got the idea that i loathed him.......he said "I guess just being paranoid"
So, i am assuming it was just another anchor check......just like the birthday omission on my part...it is almost like he needs to make sure I still respond to emails and that I am still 'in waiting' somewhere.
My original thought was to write him that if he was blissfully happy and living his best life why worry about anybody loathing him.....then i heard UM say in my head....that is manipulating because i just want him to say that he is not blissfully happy....so, i just went with the basic i do not loathe you....
of course then the mind goes into overdrive about the Why and all that and then yet again i hear UM in my head explaining that we cannot taste the color green......lol..
Trying to get back to my Zen of accepting and not expecting........

[Seahorse]

Schratz - Great to hear from you again.
I'm so sorry that your H has been moved up to your floor, but it sounds like you've handled the interactions perfectly.
Great that we have eachother, and that you immediately thought of UM before you spoke/emailed.

Keep up the great work.

[Milly]

Nice to read an update from you, Schratz. Agree with everything Sea said. x

[UrsaMajor]

Channeling the Bear.... <grin>

Sigh....eye roll.....really ? Your pride get hurt? Hours later I just replied that i did not loathe him but that he seems uncomfortable so I try to stay out of his way and asked where he got the idea that i loathed him.......he said "I guess just being paranoid"
So, i am assuming it was just another anchor check......just like the birthday omission on my part...it is almost like he needs to make sure I still respond to emails and that I am still 'in waiting' somewhere.

[Schratz66]

Thank you all for still hanging in with me.....

Apparently my Zen has walked out on me and I am riding the struggle bus once again......
I guess when they cycle we cycle or I am just slowly losing my sanity.....back to Why would he care if I loathe him if he is deliriously happy with her....why reread old love letters and let me know he reread them....it's all bat poop crazy and I hope I am just twirling down for a couple of days to soon again be flying high above the horizon.
I have been so tempted to just send him an email saying yes I loathe him and list all the reasons why but i won't because a) it would break him, b) he wouldn't understand it and c) I couldn't take it back when I am less unsettled.

Dangit - I miss my mom...no matter how old and no matter how complicated your relationship with your mom is - she is always the one person that makes you feel better just hearing her voice.
Better find my bootstraps so I can pull myself back up off the floor and keep on making the best of each day

[in it]

He's just trying to keep you emotionally right where he left you. For what he has done it would be perfectly normal for you to loathe him. He has a hard time understanding why you don't.You cannot make him understand. I simply would stop responding or replying to him. It's not doing you one bit of good.
It's normal for you to feel angry,  don't allow him to confuse you.
Your quote with the meme Ursa posted with "Bingo" is exactly what the deal is.
You aren't losing your sanity, my favorite is they can only drive you crazy if you hand them the keys. Have some compassion for you.
Write the email in a document then don't send it..get it out.
Find your zen again.

[Kimber]

Write the email in a document then don't send it..get it out.

Stuff like that helps. It's why I sometimes write it out here too.

I have routinely been called "mean" throughout this for calling it like it is. As though my "mean" words somehow outweigh true, heinous actions.

[stillbaffled]

S66 -- sure does seem like he's checking to make sure you'll be hanging around waiting.  I can't imagine what that must feel like as I'm in year 6 and my MLCer avoids me at all costs. 

Sorry to read that a job change just isn't looking good right now.  You've obviously found your bootstraps if you've continued to be able to work in the same vicinity as your MLCer.  Sending virtual support that you'll indeed, once again, get up off the floor!

[in it]

Well Kimber they tend to look at you as "mean" when you tell the truth or cannot be manipulated or controlled.  Or when you finally make a stand or say that dreaded word.
"No"
They don't like boundaries. If you get monster due to setting one? They do not respect you. You have to respect yourself enough to have nothing to do with them. You have to value your peace over their nonsense.

Only you can decide when you have had enough.

[beyondblessed]

Schratz....he is just trying to bait you into playing into his saintly victimhood.  Ignore his bs and cry for kibbles.  Any attention beats no attention at all with these sorry sacks.

[in it]

I gotta agree with Beyond Blessed Schratz
Really he's not worth the time and energy it takes answering him back or thinking about it.
Don't take the bait.
She's right, positive or negative from you, its still attention.

[xyzcf]

Hi Schratz,

He is doing what MLCers do. You have not been erased from his mind just like you cannot erase him from yours. And that is ok and quite natural when you have spent many lovely years together.

You have been able to "accept" this for some time, and there will of course be a wobble from now and then, especially since you have to work in the same building.

Continue to move along as you have been doing.

For the record, I disagree with what beyondblessed and init are saying to you. It is typical bitterness directed towards the relationships they had with their spouses without any understanding of the MLC mind.

 His brain is still perplexed and confused and perhaps it will always be that way. You have always shown him compassion and caring and that is yours to live with.

Do what your intuition and heart tells you to do. Not because you are trying to entice him back but because he is someone that you spent many good years with. He changed dramatically, as they all do and it is always hard to try and figure out what happened to the man you once knew.

If it hurts you too much, you can of course block him from your life but the reality is, your job is a good one and if you can learn to deal with him without it causing you too much disturbance, you will find that each time gets a little bit easier.

Trying to get back to my Zen of accepting and not expecting........

You can do this again. You know that you are going to encounter him and making that as easy as possible will help you a great deal rather than letting anger and bitterness block your feelings and emotions. It really is ok to be wobbly and normal. You will get out of that state again as you have before.

[OffRoad]

Interesting choice of word. Loathe. It's not anger or hate, but more of a disgust. That you would find him or his actions disgusting. Fairly accurate, though, like he knows that is the reaction most people would have to his actions, and he very much wants you to tell him that no, he doesn't disgust you.

You, of course,  must follow your own path, but man its so hard when you are in a workplace where seeing him is a sometimes thing, and he doesn't have the decency to allow you to be your own person without trying to insert himself in your trying to be your own person. It's got to be all about him, still.  I suppose telling him that you don't think about him enough to loathe him wouldn't be quite proper..... 

I do not envy you at all. Hugs!

[Treasur]

I sit somewhere in the middle on this, 66.

You are responsible for how you manage your own cycling or emotional blips. I can see you are using the respond not react, and trying to not get engaged in pointless conversations. What else are you doing to take care of your own (normal) emotions?

I do agree with xyz too that there is a difference between dealing with monster and mr sadz, and that these folks are sometimes confused rather than malevolent. Hence these kind of anchor checks when tbh I think they are looking for some kind of reassurance. Your choice entirely as to whether you want to provide that, of course, and worth remembering that you are really not responsible for his feelings of discomfort or shame (bc I agree with OR that loathe is an interesting word). And that your response may well make no difference at all!

When in doubt, often a neutral response or no response is likely to be most helpful for you. A ‘sorry you feel that way...i’m just doing my best with how things are and focusing on work’. (Which is Acceptance really, isn’t it, and what you are doing?)  Acknowledge but don’t defend or explain or get pulled into an emotional exchange. Tbh treating him a bit like a rather thin skinned coworker you don’t know much or hang around with? Detached.

[Sam I Am]

66,

It is great to get an update from you despite all that is/has happened!

Sorry to hear about Mom.   

Hope you get your zen back.  You seem so much stronger!  You know to just let him flit and flutter around.

Sounds like he wants a pity party and you didn't give it to him! 

Take care and stay in touch! 

Sam

[3Boys4Me]

Love this update! I too have been away from the forum for about a year or so, this is the first thread I’ve read and it’s so lovely to see the posts from many that all experienced BD about the same time (mine just a month before yours). You sound great. Strong. I admire how you are handling yourself even though you feel wobbly. Your H sounds confused and fully in MLC, though definitely anchor checking or even touch and go - but that’s his issue, not yours brave girl. Keep riding.

Glad I stopped by! Xox
3Boys

[terra]

Schratz hats off to you and standing ovation for your ability to weather his presence in your workplace. That’s commendable and testament to your grace and strength, so *good on you*. May every workday be held in some natural and universe-bestowed protection.

I do agree with in it a bit here; I’ve been through a handful of this or that ex reading old love letters and letting me know they’ve been read again. It’s “nice” and it’s also manipulation. There’s some advice and example current on the board about this does not change anything, does not mean anything, is not reason or cause to adjust your expectations. And yet I also agree with the counter-advice and will say that only you know what and how this works for you.

I have written love letters to h even in his life with ow, which is now going on 4+ or even 5 years. Long enough that I have to let go and fully release him to what he chose. Last summer he sent me something in kind and really, I think all it did was confuse me and break my heart a little further.

This summer I think I’ve concluded that apparently maybe my heart needed to be broken further. I don’t know why that would be true except that the further and evidently final breaking means there is nothing left to harbor or protect or preserve, so, from here the only way out is up. I don’t wish it on anyone and I also don’t mean to be a downer on your thread — but I’ll offer here that the way out and up does feel liberating and much lighter.

I’m attaching here with you if I haven’t before, and am definitely rooting for your workdays and path forward to feel and be clear, steady, self-authoritative, and emotionally protected. You know what is of value in your whole story and being. Honestly I’m hopeful that your h gets off the crazy train and comes around free and clear to you and that he will repair. It’s never clear to me whether or what is really likely or supposed to happen, so I will just tell you, I’m praying along that your life and peace of mind, minute to minute every day and night, will be well. (((HUGS)))

[terra]

Oh what I meant to say and instead sidetracked,

Love does persist, especially when it’s of the unconditional kind. That’s why those letters are written and why they are saved and read again and spoken about.

It’s beautiful that they existed at all and still do, and that they are read and received again and acknowledged in the times that the recipient needs to absorb them again.

That’s beautiful.

At the same time, if it doesn’t realign or result in what we intended when we wrote them in the first place, it hurts.

It hurts so much, and what good is that?

Sometimes the good is that we the writers or we the recipients have a second look at something really, really valuable. And maybe in the second look, we understand that either a) that was younger times and we didn’t know enough to know how it wasn’t going to work, or b) clearly we knew even in younger times that there was something here eternally worth keeping and maintaining.

If we’ve dropped the lead or reins on something good, maybe we can pick those back up again and restore the right path. This is the hope and maybe both parties feel that. If so, it’s up to someone to take charge and start realigning. If he left, if he’s the one re-reading, he might not understand but it’s up to him to set the intention clearly and with authority and consistency. Up to him, not you.

Other times it is just a looking back and the person rereading those old/younger letters of love and worth is still going to follow its own course, whether anyone likes that or not. This is the confusion and despair, and it’s why any of us might tell you to leave it all be and don’t put any stock in it at all.

That this stuff comes up for you in a workplace scenario, just... power through and know that we’re rooting for you every step of the way, every day. (((HUGS)))

[Schratz66]

Thank you everybody for your support and love and great views......that's why i have always loved this forum and needed it.....everyone of you is so greatly appreciated for taking the time to respond.
Loathe was an interesting word choice.....and I think it is telling about himself...quite frankly it would not surprise me if he loathed himself and it was projection ...just like the email about having read the love letter and wanting to die. Which is interesting because the first few years he did not show any signs of realizing how cruel he had been ...so maybe he is moving along somewhere or maybe not...gotta find my who cares attitude.
From the get go I always responded to any emails he had send as he always responded to any of mine. Now, i have not initiated any contact for the last 2 years, but will gladly respond any time he takes the chance to reach out. It cannot be easy for him and no, i am not a door mat but I am always open to keeping contact alive when he chooses to reach out as tough as it is.
So - maybe, just maybe...okay - let's be real - my wobbling might have to do with the 4 year mark of BD coming up for me and I will never forget that day as long as I live. Hoping once the date is passed I can get back to smoother sailing seas for myself.
So glad it is Friday and I get a reprieve for a couple of days. Weather is supposed to be perfect so biking and kayaking and lake swimming are on for tomorrow and one can forget everything else for a while.
My mantra shall remain to realize what will be will be if God chooses for it to be but it is not up to me.
I must make the most of each day that I have and not dwell in the past nor fret about the future but just be in the now.

Thank you again for stopping in and blessing me with your wisdom and love.

I hope everyone can enjoy their weekend

[xyzcf]

So - maybe, just maybe...okay - let's be real - my wobbling might have to do with the 4 year mark of BD coming up for me and I will never forget that day as long as I live. Hoping once the date is passed I can get back to smoother sailing seas for myself.

This is "real". I still have difficulty in the days before BD date and probably always will. Many others do too. As I wrote in my previous post to you:

"You have not been erased from his mind just like you cannot erase him from yours. And that is ok and quite natural when you have spent many lovely years together."

"The “Anniversary Effect”, is a collection of disturbing feelings, thoughts or memories that occur on or around a date that marks a significant event. You could be feeling sad, irritable, anxious, emotionally shutdown, or unable to sleep, and a quick glance at the calendar will help you to connect this emotional state to a traumatic event.

As with many psychological phenomena the anniversary effect happens for a reason. Research shows that our brains store painful, sad or traumatic memories in an easily accessible way so that we can be reminded of, and warned off, the dangers to protect us from something similar happening again. For example, a driver involved in a car crash will have memories that provide information about what the driver should be afraid of, how she or he should see those situations, and how to feel and what to think in those circumstances. The anniversary of the crash will trigger these memories causing you to, in a way, have to live through some of those difficult and painful experiences and emotions again."

https://theawarenesscentre.com/what-is-the-anniversary-effect/

This is a real phenomena and doesn't mean that you have not detached or healed...rather it is an understandable reaction to a traumatic event. Knowing that helps to put it into perspective.

Glad the weekend is upon you! Have a good one.

[Maleficent]

Schratz, So good to hear from you. You are doing so well with having to work with him and see him so often. Cannot imagine, for me it would be a daily trigger, yet you are showing grace and strength. 

Yes, "loathe" a strong word, so many meanings - disgust, hate, recoil. I do wonder about their self reflection and capacity to feel what we lived. Is it easier for them to compartmentalize, by giving it a name, or do they feel any remorse for the impact of their bevaior? But, that would be as UM says, like "tasting the color green." Not sure the knowledge would help with healing. And perhaps, that needs to be our standard now, not that any of us will truly "heal."

Am sorry about the recent anniversary and the effect that had- so normal, appreciate xyz's explanation.  I once thought of anniversaries as good events, yet, with time, so many more sad ones.

Anyway, popped on mostly to say hello.  Living in the moment along with you, a few steps behind you.

[Schratz66]

I survived the BD anniversary - xyz - it makes me feel much less of a failure if even calm rational women like you still get irked a tad on that date. Mal - thanks for checking in.
Still weeble wobbling a bit about missing my mom but I do believe that is normal and I just try to cry when I feel like it and keep going as I can.
Currently busy training for our very first real triathlon that involves swimming, cycling and running. My frenzied exercise Mojo from last year has disappeared but I am determined to cross the finish line to say I did it. 
MLC emailed a couple of days ago to give me the heads up about some work place changes.....and ended with 'miserable again' ...I so badly want to say that we know being miserable does not change by changing women, want to ask what happened to his happily ever after with OW...but I just replied thanks for the heads up ... restraint is still tough and I am not nearly as detached as I would like to be. Some days I even feel guilty for actually still loving this man.
Better days ahead and back focusing on what i can actively do to make each day the best it can be.

[Thunder]

S, don't you dare feel guilty for still loving him.  I don't think that is anything a person can control really.  Doesn't make you weak.  You didn't leave him, you loved your husband.
I would expect most of us did/do, if we are being honest....and that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Acknowledge it, accept it and move along.

You are doing so good, I can't believe you are doing a triathlon.  Wow, I'm impressed!  When is the event?
You are certainly not standing still!

I'm sorry you are missing your mom, hon.
 
{{Big Hug}}

[UrsaMajor]

I think I would have had a VERY difficult time biting my tongue and NOT saying something...

I mean, he did a runner to go find his "Happily Ever After" with OW and he's miserable.... so running away didn't help change anything... IMAGINE my surprise...

[beyondblessed]

I think I would have had a VERY difficult time biting my tongue and NOT saying something...

I mean, he did a runner to go find his "Happily Ever After" with OW and he's miserable.... so running away didn't help change anything... IMAGINE my surprise...

Ditto.....the rearing of the ugly head of those pesky consequences 🤷‍♀️  They certainly can try to run from themselves, but they can't hide.  What isn't unearthed, stays buried and continues to fester.

[Schratz66]

Time just flies.....Triathlon finished.....was not dead last....lol....I take that as an accomplishment but darn it was brutal. We had an athlete that has done 30 triathlons in 30 states and said this one was top three in difficulty. Most participants were under 30 and like pros....meanwhile....me over here with my two friends getting close to retirement age....lol. Unfortunately my older friend who is a triathlon slayer  had a horrible biking accident and ended up in the emergency room with broken nose, broken eye socket, head wound, broken sternum, cracked skull.....thank God she is on the mend now and wants to do it again next year.

Those of you that have followed me from the beginning might remember the odd leaving tomatoes on my desk by MLC the first year (2017) ....guess what....it's so bizarre it actually makes me giggle now .....he stopped by my desk this year (4 years in) and handed me a bag of tomatoes......
They truly are batty, aren't they....lol...
4 years ago I saw it as a sign of hope and interpreted all kinds of feelings into it...this year....it's tomatoes, he thought of me and he remembers that i like them. No fantasies of return, no why, no cray cray - so despite the healing being slow at times, i guess we do learn and move forward in our own way.
My daughter just shook her head when I told her.....
Heading up to see my daughter in a couple of days to help her paint her classroom for the upcoming school year. After the work is done we shall have massages and pedicures and a nice dinner....it will be nice to spend time with her.
Also have a girl trip coming up to kayak and bike and enjoy nature and then another cycling event at the end of the month.

Summer is zooming by so fast ....I hope everyone is enjoying every minute of every day ...oddly enough the last few weeks our own mortality had me thinking how we might not have much time left and we need to take advantage of the time we do have.

Thank you for tagging along and all your wonderful support over the years.

[beyondblessed]

Huge congrats, on finishing the triathlon.   That is truly an accomplishment of which you be proud.  I'm also sending prayers and healing vibes for your friend.  What a scary situation 😥

And congrats on seeing the gift of tomatoes, as just that;  a thoughtful gift from a friend.  At the very least, he thinks enough of you to remain civil.  Not all of them evolve to this level, so I'd call it a win.

And, as for our own mortality, I completely agree.  Regardless of where any of us stands on the matter of MLC, our days are numbered, just as anyone else's.   It is our responsibility to live them to our best and fullest capacity, whatever that looks like to us individually.

[Treasur]

My goodness, 66, what an awesome achievement to even cross the finishing line! Go you!
And yes, sometimes a tomato is just a tomato  ....very true, and it made me chuckle 

[OffRoad]

That is so awesome! Congratulations on just going out and doing it, and a second congratulations for finishing it.

[Standing Strong]

Wow, that is so awesome and inspiring 

Taking life by the horns  Love it

-SS

[UrsaMajor]

Tomatoes....


I think your D's reaction was the best... just shaking her head and moving on ...

[FaithWalker]

Their behavior is so bizarre sometimes.  I occasionally get random "gifts" sent home with the kids as well.  A container of soup, homemade cookies, etc.  I just sort of shrug and enjoy them or dump them out, depending on how we feel about the offerings at the time lol.

[MadLuv]

The gifts… my X who travels saved the coffee pods as he alway used to and when he came to pick up some of his belongings he handed the to me with trembling hands. No bag, just loose coffee pods.

It does just go to show that you always cross their minds. There is some comfort in knowing that I think, because with everything they have done you can feel like you meant nothing to them. This assures us we actually did and still do.

[Thunder]

Tornup, of course they don't forget us.  They spent a good part of their lives with us.

No more than we will ever forget them, even if we never saw them again.

Just don't take anything from these random gifts.  Could be alleviating a little guilt, or it was just a nice thought on their part.  Who knows? 

[stillbaffled]

Way to go on that completed triathlon, S66!  I hope you gave yourself a big pat on the back! 

[Schratz66]

My Goodness - already 4 more months passed since I posted last.
So much going on.......last post was about tomatoe gifts and finishing the Triathlon. The end of August was my final Cycling Race - 100 km - finished in 90 degree weather...it was truly brutal.....since then I have not been able to do much. My GP thinks there is a heart issue that I need to get checked - which I failed the stress test and just had a heart CAT done and then both hip joints are damaged which makes every move incredibly painful. Thankfully it is winter now and not much outdoor season missed and I am hoping to be back at it next year.



You guys have been with me 4 1/2 years and know how badly I had wanted to find another job that would not involve being in the same building as MLC. Guess what....YUP........this little ole lady god a new job 2 months ago. Still with a state agency so I will not lose any retirement and I kept my salary. This was sooo exciting for me and I love moving about my new space freely without any lurking......such a great stroke of luck.

On the MLC front - odd remain odd because, well, they are aliens......earlier this year was the first year that I did not acknowledge his birthday. So, a clear sign that it bugged him was the fact that he in return ignored mine.....I just giggled because such childish games he plays.

On my last day at the shared work space he asked a question and I answered as I would answer anybody else. Of course hours later he privately emailed me asking if he upset me as I was so cool and if he did he did not mean to. I did reply - nope not upset but wondering why it mattered to him if I was upset with him or not if he is living happily ever after with OW. He said I answered my own question on why and he still thinks and cares about me and promised years ago to let me know when he was sure and he still wasn't sure. No reply from me.

Weeks later- a short email.....hope you are well.....simple reply from me.....I am and I hope you are living your best life.
He replied with poor pity him is staying home most of the time and has no life and blablabla

Last week an email that he knew I was trying to distance myself but he thought I should know.....his mother is in the hospital.....I am thinking that woman did not care about me our my D for 4 years and why do I need to know if she is sick or not. But, as I would respond to anybody else, just briefly said that if he needed anything to let me know. Immediate reply of how he has no help and thank you and I helped so much with his dad.  I did not reply.
The next day....email about his mom possibly having to go into a rehab facility to regain strength and he just needed to vent and he trusts me with his life.

For the Newbies........they do think about you...

For me.....trying to get a grip again distancing while he is in poor pity me state and who knows what is going on with OW as quite frankly he doesn't care. I shall keep responding in the same way as I would to any acquaintance with empathy and kindness but not reaching out.

So, back to me.......my brother and I have been staying close to each other since my mom passed for which I am grateful.
Christmas will be small as always in the last few years....my daughter is coming in with her boyfriend and their two cats and I am looking forward to that.

I hope everyone is still staying safe from CoVID and keeps moving on down the line.

[UrsaMajor]

Schratz,

If I may, I would suggest applying the Rule of 3 of responding to xH's Pity Party e-mails...
There is blood or someone is dying - 3 minutes
Something regarding kids or finances - 3 days
Idle chit chat (including pity party invitations) - 3 years - if ever....

You changed jobs to get away from him. Now, instead of lurking around he is e-mail bombing you.... does that serve you in any way? Probably not but it does keep you attached to him (or him to you....)

He made his choices when he decided to engage the OW. He released you from all responsibility of dealing with his crap (in other terms, he fired you form that job and replaced you with OW).

Let OW deal with him... That is why he brought her on-board, isn't it? If she isn't fulfilling his expectations as a partner, well... that is NOT your farm, not your cows, and not your BS to clean up....

You have a life to lead and an Acorn to watch over (Ice Age reference) that does NOT include participating in his Pity Party....

He said I answered my own question on why and he still thinks and cares about me and promised years ago to let me know when he was sure and he still wasn't sure.

[Kind18]

Listen to Ursa’s advice. 3 mins, 3 days, 3 years (if ever).

Not your circus, not your monkey 

I see your comment saying that you’re trying to re-distance from him because he’s in pity party mode. Here’s an “ah-hah” moment for you to ponder - perhaps the only reason you are now having to re-distance … is because you let the distance get too small 

Go and live your amazing life. Ain’t no-one got time for pity party emails from a grown adult 

[beyondblessed]

Schatz, you sound great!  Poor pitiful him said he promised" you?  Seems to me he promised you many other things in those pesky little M vows that he never kept.

[Sam I Am]

Hey 66:

congrats on doing for you...especially getting the new position!  That is awesome!

Keep that focus!  Hope you are feeling better in the spring when it is time to get back outside again! 

Physical woes stink....you got this!

Take care! 

Sam

[barbiedoll]

I am always thrilled to hear from you!  So happy you found a new job because I recall how much you wanted that ! Fantastic !  . And still he finds a way to drop in and out of your life . Yes, aliens. But I know you can handle this and not let it become anything to spend too much time on. You do sound like a whole new Schratz ...strong and mighty !

[FaithWalker]

Merry Christmas Schratz and Happy 2022.

Congrats on the new job, that's fantastic!

I have been suffering from hip pain since I pulled my gastrocnemius muscle on the other leg playing volleyball summer of '17 or '18.  I babied the pulled leg and now my other leg has terrible hip pain.  It's hard for me to sleep comfortably at night.  So I feel for you on the hips.

I hope that you can get back out there and physically crush it!

[Schratz66]

Thank you all for your comments and of course Ursa is correct...I did let myself get pulled back in, because I thought he 'needed me'.....no he didn't...he just needed to feel sorry for himself. New Years Eve his mother passed away and as much as I tried to feel something - I had no emotions whatsoever - except that it is hard for anyone to lose their mother.
Of course for a moment I threw my own pity party about how unfair that he keeps dragging me along and then I was....wait a minute, sister......he cannot drag you along unless you let him....so, back on my feet and looking forward and not clinging to whatever speck of hope is still in my heart.
Still loving my new job and so grateful for it.
We are awaiting a big snow storm today so I am curling up with a cup of tea and will catch up on everyones storyline here.
Everyone stay safe and know that I appreciate every single one of you.

[FaithWalker]

and then I was....wait a minute, sister......he cannot drag you along unless you let him....

Exactly!

Still loving my new job and so grateful for it.

I smile every time I read about your new job.  I can't imagine how tough it was to be in the same place that he was.

We are awaiting a big snow storm today so I am curling up with a cup of tea and will catch up on everyones storyline here.
Everyone stay safe and know that I appreciate every single one of you.

Stay safe and warm!  We appreciate you too S66.

[Schratz66]

UGH - UGH - UGH

He just emailed me that he wants to see me. His mothers Christmas Village goes to my D.

I am freaking out and have no idea how to reply.

That family shunned me and my D for the last almost 5 years and now because nobody else wants it my D should get it ?

Here is my mental panic state:

I do not want anything from that Family
I am  not sure I can step into his mothers house where so many happy memories are...the house that he and I were supposed to make our own one day.
I am afraid that I am not strong enough and that this would break me all over again.
Of course I would have expectations going there and I am certain he has no clue what this would do to me.

I need logical advise from someone please......

I am a mess

[UrsaMajor]

Take it and sell it... 

[Treasur]

Or just say No, thank you.
Or ask your daughter to contact him directly to arrange pick up/delivery if she wants it.

It’s a ‘hoover’ attempt, 66.
He could send it to your daughter or contact her about it if he needed to. No need for your involvement at all. Not your family, not your circus, not your stuff. So, he has another agenda which involves seeing you for some weird reason - like the saying about Greeks bearing gifts  .....and it is unlikely to offer any benefit to you particularly if it makes your body feel so squirmy. Jmo.
If it was me, i’d Just say No, thank you. Or if appropriate, ask your daughter to do so.

[Nas]

Does your D want the village? You don't have to go to his mother's house, even if she wants the items. There's no reason you should have to, especially if it makes you uncomfortable. You have agency here, you can do what makes best sense for you. Just because he wants to see you doesn't mean he gets to see you.

[Schratz66]

Thank you my logic warriors....
I am still a blubbering mess so I forwarded his email to D to see fi she wants it and told her that I'd have him get in touch with her if she does.
She will be torn because she loved that Village but hates him for how he broke her mother.
Does this ever end ??
I swear they have no clue what they have done and how it affected anybody else.


Thank you for your quick help and pick me ups....

[Thunder]

Hi 66,

I agree, your body is giving you the answer.  I'd stay away, but that's just me.

You did the right thing, no need to get involved.  If it's something your D wants that's fine, but let them figure it out between them.

I hope you feel calmer now.

Hugs

[xyzcf]

Does this ever end ??

In my world, I manage my response to him better. I accept that he doesn't want me in his life. I would prefer that we were still married and still had our family unit intact. I don't get a vote.

I choose to have contact with him and for me, this has allowed me to desensitize so that it doesn't faze me. But that took years.

It is vital though to be able to calm one's nervous system from the disruption that is caused when they contact us. I think that can be done, for me that works.

For others, not opening any emails or sending his emails to junk and eliminating any contact seems better.

I swear they have no clue what they have done and how it affected anybody else.

I think this is quite true. Then of course, we have never told them perhaps nor even if we did, they'd look at us like a deer in  headlights. Their lack of empathy doesn't allow them to understand the depth of the pain they have caused us.

They do still think of us and in some ways we are still important to them. Perhaps your daughter had expressed that she liked this Christmas village. Because there is such limited communication between us, and the communication is so superficial, we don't always understand the meaning behind their actions.

The reality is, healing from the way our marriages ended probably will take a lifetime. But we learn as well, what makes it easier for us to do so.

I think you could ask your daughter to contact him directly if she is interested in getting this Christmas village. You don't have to respond to him at all if you do not want to.

[Schratz66]

Thank you Y.....my D always loved the Christmas Village and I messaged her that it is hers if she wants it. She was concerned it would hurt my feelings if she gets it, I told her absolutely not - it is just that I cannot be the one to pick it up.

She is not sure either if she can handle seeing MLC. Her anger still runs deep - she has said she lost her mother and an entire family at BD. Sure, years later I am back, but she is right...for almost a year after BD I was a complete mess and not much of a mother to her, so I understand her feelings.

I often thought about explaining to MLC what his actions had done to us, but then just like you said, he would be incapable of understanding as somehow they can control their emotions with their brain rather than their hearts.

[xyzcf]

I know, my daughter lost her mother for a very long time.

I don't know how that could have been less traumatic, it took me a long time and finding the right therapist to heal.....the thing is S66, your daughter did get to see the reality of real emotions and feelings...and that you can recover from them and that is an important life lesson.

Because throughout life, we are all going to get broken in some way or another.

Now, whenever my daughter reaches out, I am totally focused on talking to her. She is 37 years old but she likes to bounce things off me...and even though she has a relationship with her father, it's not him she will turn to when life hurts.

We did nothing wrong S66 and our daughters are very aware of that. So even if they lost us for a little while, they are extremely happy to have us back again.

[Schratz66]

so true Y...my daughter and I are closer than ever now and I also fully focus on her issues whenever she calls.
And it is because of her that I cannot take a chance to see him in these circumstances as I am not sure what it would do to me and she deserves better than for me to break all over again. I did not respond to his email as I really don't know what to say and until I know what or if to say anything I will leave the mail sitting in the inbox. I always responded to all emails and he has done the same so .....maybe I will just say....it's not a good idea...

[JohnnyBravo]

I choose to have contact with him and for me, this has allowed me to desensitize so that it doesn't faze me. But that took years.

It is vital though to be able to calm one's nervous system from the disruption that is caused when they contact us. I think that can be done, for me that works.

For others, not opening any emails or sending his emails to junk and eliminating any contact seems better.

I had a brief phone call with my wife over the weekend, and it has set me abuzz, hamster wheel spinning, etc. But I feel it is important to build this kind of strength if we are going to reconcile, or even if we don't. I don't want to send everything through a lawyer if I can handle it myself. (i.e., we still have to deal with 2021 income tax.) So, I remind myself that I'm still new to this, and that very few people here are completely at ease with contact (or just have quit cold turkey), even after years.

[xyzcf]

You do exactly what feels right for you S66.

That is the difference now..there is no need to try and "please" them. We relate to the people in our lives who are able to tell us what they feel/think/what they need from us...not random messages about a Christmas village.

You are enjoying your life in your new job and peace and calm. You and your daughter are close, she knows she can rely on you and that is important.

If you feel that any contact from him is unhealthy for you, you may want to tell him, this is your boundary, not to contact you about anything in his life anymore.

As I said, I continue to allow his contact because it doesn't unsettle me the way it once did.

Johnny wrote:

But I feel it is important to build this kind of strength if we are going to reconcile, or even if we don't.

For me, it was important that he doesn't scare me anymore...for indeed these intense feelings that we experience really are an over responding fight/flight/freeze mechanism that has become "normal" due to the trauma caused by their betrayal/abandoment/rejection.

I didn't want him to be able to have that affect on me. He doesn't monster so I don't have to deal with any kind of abuse. It also allows me a window into who he is now...and that reaffirms to me that something is very wrong.

It is important to me that we can still enjoy our daughter, a broken and dysfunctional family for sure but I think my being open to him helps our daughter as well.

It all depends on what you want...finding peace for myself and my daughter was my the ultimate goal.

He's also very much a clinger and always has been so he never really "goes away"...quite fascinating really from a psychological view.

[Schratz66]

Johnny - I am one of those people. that is not fully at ease even years later....I had to work in the same office with him for 4 years after BD and after a while I was ok seeing and talking to him regarding work issues if I had to. Going to his mothers house and not being out in public (which is somewhat much safer) - I am just terrified I would fall to pieces and profess my love and feel like a fool yet again.

Sure if reconciliation was at stake, it would be different, but I do not think that is on the table at all....

[Schratz66]

Well, I talked to my daughter and she was furious that he even dared so nonchalantly to pretend it's completely normal that she would get the Christmas Village. She does not want it because his entire family shunned her as well as me from BD....however, she wants me to explain to him why she does not want it.

My opinion is he would not understand and I do not want to sound pathetic. I am sure he sees it as a great gesture to give her the Village.

My question - do I just not answer, do I just say "Not a good idea", do I say "I cannot see him as long as OW is in the picture"  or do I say "It would be more appropriate to hand it down in your current family", do I say "it's too painful to see him"....

No longer shaking or blubbering, but still trying to find my peace of mind back on how to handle the situation best

[xyzcf]

There are so many ways to say No.

From reading your thoughts, it feels like you want to use this as an opportunity to say something to him. That is fine if there is something you want to say...that you perhaps would have said to him if he had not contacted you about the Christmas village...does that make sense.

Do you want him to know "I cannot see him as long as OW is in the picture" or "that it's too painful to see him".?

Would you have said either of these things spontaneously if he had not contacted you?

You have many choices S66, none are the "right" response unless it is something that you want to say to him.

You can also ignore his email completely or just respond "no thanks".

It all depends upon the level of contact that you will allow with him.

I know that this brings up a great deal of emotions, that his family dismissed you and your daughter..I would also feel, "no thanks"...I don't need anything from you or your family.

It's hard because we are really programmed to answer people but not at the expense of our own well being.

[Nas]

"I asked D, she does not want it, thank you anyway."

I can understand why your D does not want to respond to him herself, but it puts you in a position to have to speak to him on her behalf - which doesn't sound like something you want to do.
So now you've been asked to be a go between to your H from your D, and then a go between from your D to your H - two adults. Since your D was not asked directly, I can understand her saying to you, "Tell him I said no." But to ask you to explain why is asking you to put yourself in a position where you're feeling anxious and uncomfortable - that's something I would talk about with your D, about why it's unfair to ask you to verbalize her feelings to your H on her behalf. Since you two have a really good relationship, this might be a good conversation for the two of you to establish your individual boundaries going forward.

You can also choose to not respond at all, or to wait a bit until you've had time to mull it over more.

[beyondblessed]

Schatz, I can totally empathize with your overthinking a response to him, as you've spent years prior walking on eggshells so as not to outwardly offend him.   But let's remember, he had choices and made them freely, with no thought to anyone but himself.  Now, years later and seeing the grass is really fake on the side he's planted himself, he continues to find ways to hoover and keep contact...all still on his terms.

Keeping all of the above in mind, this last attempt really has/had absolutely nothing to do with you, per se.  It was a gift extended to your D....but through you, or better known as hoovering/triangulation to see exactly where you are at...still on the shelf and coming when he calls or living your life, without regards to him.  Your daughter was rightfully offended and declined.  That's all he needs to know.

[Treasur]

however, she wants me to explain to him why she does not want it.

I think you might need to explain kindly to your young adult daughter that one of the things you have learned is to not take ownership of things that don’t belong to you? And the long term cost we see in MLCers of failing to learn to speak for ourselves rather than avoiding it?

Which imho leaves two choices bc your daughter, understandably, does not want this rather tainted gift.
She communicates to him for herself by herself excluding any involvement from you that she does not want it and why. With appropriately low expectations of any constructive response from him.
Or you send a short factual email, something like ‘Spoke to daughter. She doesn’t want it, so no thanks’. Same low/no expectations.

Can’t help but think that he is metaphorically throwing spaghetti at the wall now as you are no longer to be found in that old work space  Wonder what he’ll come up with next lol.....

[Zion]

The village no longer holds sentimental value to your D, and that is a message that should come from her.  Explaining someone else's feelings to an MLCer is too much pressure on you. 

"I ask D and she doesn't want it".  Pretend it is an offer of something neutral...or an offer to go through someone's clothes they no longer want and have bagged for donation.

 

[Schratz66]

Thank you all. XY - I am ok with his 4 emails a year just checking if I am still responding....is there something I want to say to him that I wouldn't say if it had not been for the village...honestly...I am not sure I have anything to say to him while he is with OW. He cannot have both of us. He would also never come right out and say he is no longer with her as he would think (rightfully so) that it would create expectations that he 'chose' me. his game would be to act as friends and then see, but......do I take that risk.....I do not think I can in person.

Nas - thank you so much - you are so right - I could not possibly explain my daughters feelings and that is something she should do and I will talk about that with her next time I see her. She was so hurt and it was a second abandonment from a father figure in her life and made her question so many things about herself. But - it is hers to own and find a way to express. I cannot do it for her.

Thank you beyond - I agree - he could have just reached out to her, but I think he was afraid of her reaction while he knows I always repond in kind (or sort of)

Treasure - I think you are right - it has him somewhat at a loss to no longer be able to see me at work and know that I am alive and well and hear rumors or not. He now is completely in the blind and it will be interesting to see what's next.

Thank you Zion. There are so many emptions attached to that village......I like your idea to pretend it's worn clothes or something similar.

Thank you so much all ...such wonderful wise people that know what it's like ... my appreciation is deep.
I feel my peace of mind coming back
Thank you

[forthetrees]

Perhaps more neutral is to say that you let know D know and she´s going to take a pass on the offer. The neutrality of that doesn´t open the can of explaining why but conveys she thought about it. Saying she doesn´t want it carries a negative emotion whereas take a pass is more in the realm of meh.

[UrsaMajor]

Schratz,

Not to be harsh but it isn't your job to explain to MLCxH why D doesn't want the village... If anyone, that is really her job. Understandable if she doesn't want to / can't in the situation but it's not your circus, not your monkeys....

I might even be more non-committal than FTT - "I let D know about the offer."

But, since this got out of control REALY quickly, you need a new thread... Yesterday there were 140 posts and today 160+?

[Schratz66]

You are correct Ursa (you always are) ...this did escalate....

New thread :  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11884.new#new

Hope I am doing this right - it's been a while...lol