[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi Pacman,

You are getting great advice from others.   I have come to accept that my own difficulties may have contributed to my W's MLC but wasn't the primary cause.   All I can do is focus on my life and my own healing while letting my W figure out her life.   Do be kind to yourself and take things one day at time.  It will get easier.

HF

[Pacman]

Hey Pacman,

You are both the same age right? 50?

If that's the case, it could be a few things. It could be MLC. That is the tail end of the age group for MLC, but it is possible.
One thing that you mentioned that caught my eye was perimenopausal..... that is very interesting to me.
It seems a bit late for that also, it should be full-on menopause right about now. That can have very similar behaviors to MLC.
Which one is it? We don't know,

I would ask if she has trauma in her past, specifically teens or younger? I would also ask if she has abandonment issues (did her parents divorce in her youth?). Any history of MLC in her family? Some of these may be known, and some could be unknown. I learned at lot about mine during her MLC and I thought I knew everything about my W. Is she having drastic memory problems? Is her personality "flipping" on the turn of a dime? Any monstering? Shark eyes events? Dressing like a teen. Hanging out with teens (or 20's). Reversion to earlier periods in time? Being stuck on issues from her past? These are indications of MLC. Not everyone gets them all, but they will have a combo of sorts. If you aren't seeing any of these, and she is in the present..... then that could be an indication that this is solely menopause.
R2T is so right, you will find a way to categorize it as time goes on as you see and experience more. It's also almost universal for every LBS to question "is my MLC'er having an MLC or is this something else?". Happens all the time. It's also a question that each LBS comes to answer themselves.

I know you're beating yourself up about the drinking. I wouldn't. You know this wasn't a good thing, you will have to forgive yourself and move on from it. Actually you'll have to face all your shortcomings, deal with them, improve, forgive, and move forward. Can't change the past, just be the best you can, improve and move forward. If she's in MLC, she's going to have to do the same. It's not easy, but it has to be done.

So you think you may have been in MLC yourself? This is also very interesting..... and to me, if this is the case.... it supports her being in MLC (IMO). How long do you think you were in it? What were your behaviors while in it? Withdrawn? Irritable? Angry? Depressed without admitting it? IF these are true...... then you could have been kicked out of it because she was going into it (that's also fairly normal, not typical, but normal). There are a lot of male LBS's who believed they were in something before their W was. That just catches my eye.

April was BD, so you're 5 months in. Not time for her to slow down yet, and contact will only prolong her descent. There is no catching them in their fall Pacman. As much as we want to save them, fix them, help them....... they don't want it. We only make it worse. This isn't about you, it's about her. She isn't dong this to hurt you or your family. She is damaged. She will have to fix herself. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. Time will tell.
 
Now is the time to work on yourself Pacman. It's going to be ok, no matter what happens, it's going to be ok. You're going to be connecting dots for a long while. Deep breath and let the mind work out all these things and your emotions. Not a time to act on these things, they are going to churn until they are resolved. You will have to master yourself. You'll have to choose how to work on yourself: How to improve. Find the shortcomings, deal with them, wipe them out. If you were in MLC, figure out what put you there, deal with those issues. Now you get to build the best version of you. She'll choose to return later, or not. You may have an influence on her, but can't choose for her.

So much to face in the opening months and 1st year. A tough road, but you'll get thru it. In time this can become a great blessing if you let it. There is much opportunity.

Keep writing, all that energy, emotion and thought needs to be released. Sometimes the only way to work out something is to vent it, and the issues are legion. 

Be gentle, go slow, deep breaths. Take care of yourself. Learning how to operate alone is a big step. Detachment is not easy but necessary.

-SS

She had febral convulsions as a child and nearly died.
She definitely is not living in the present.
Definitely perimenopausal when she started the affair.
Her first husband cheated on her and she walked away.
My mid life crisis ....I did get angry was withdrawn and depressed.

[Pacman]

So she tells me she is speaking to AP again "as friends",
I think this is totally disrespectful to our mutual friends as they initially gave a spare bed in the hopes that we would work it out.
Son 19 said to her that AP broke up the family and her response was "no he didn't I did".
I said I was happy for her to talk to me but I have a boundary if she is still talking to him.
She is ambivalent to dealing with any of the reality of this situation.
She is living with mutual friends and living the grass is greener life.
Still has me on joint health insurance and has not dealt with any of the real "hard" decisions.
She is currently driving a car that I'm paying the lease for.
Yeah I know protect myself....everything is documented BUT I don't see why I should have to make the tough choice to force the situation when I'm still standing for my marriage.
Friends say move on, get over it finish it etc but I'm not prepared to do that as a marriage is made or broken by 2 people.
Wanted to come and get some of her stuff 2 weeks ago and asked if I'd rather she did it when I was at work.
Whatever suits you I said...Her gear is still here.

[5hilmerton]

Attaching

[Pacman]

I'm so triggered at the moment.
She has gone out to dinner again.
I can't scratch my a** because if the debts she left plus telling me recently that she is "talking" to him again "as a friend"
Do 23 years mean nothing.....am I not a friend?

[JohnnyBravo]

I'm not sure if they're ambivalent to the situation or just incapable of understanding it. My W could never save money, and seems to think a one-time cash infusion from our divorce will set her up for life. I'm lucky in that regard because we maintained split finances while married.

I imagine your friends will get tired of putting your W up at some point, but I'm not sure any dose of reality is enough when they're still seeing things through crisis-colored glasses.

I'm with you on not taking the initiative to break the marriage. It's not easy.

Hang in there.

JB

[marvin4242]

I'm so triggered at the moment.
She has gone out to dinner again.
I can't scratch my a** because if the debts she left plus telling me recently that she is "talking" to him again "as a friend"
Do 23 years mean nothing.....am I not a friend?

Pacman fwiw I am sorry you are in this place right now. Its completely understandable. It sucks, there is just no other way of putting it or trying to make it sound better. I say this only for you to know its not just you, almost 5 years out I had another one of the same moments, that how can I be so devalued after 24 years. In fact I will write something about it on my thread. Its a very valid question, but sadly the answer is the same one that you have heard: it has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with her.

I also have had the "friend" garbage. In fact my wife even tried to get me and the OM to be friends. The distortions and insanity is really shocking. So as much as you can try to just take care of yourself. It hurts, it may make you angry. Its completely normal and understandable. Just keep reminding yourself this is NOT normal (what she is doing), and take care of yourself.

If it helps for now view her as not someone who is your friend, nor as someone who is capable of have any care whatsoever for anyone else. And try to act with that in mind.

[MadLuv]

The hardest thing to accept is they are unreachable. The decisions  they make are out of the normal and they have lost their moral compass. The fact we can see it clearly, but they are oblivious is maddening. I after 10 months just got to the place of reality and accepting I can’t fix this. It is the hardest thing to sit back and watch someone you love destroy their lives. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this.

[Pacman]

I'm not a spiritual person however a friend is and she tells me that she "sees" my W has convinced herself that it is over.
And that my deceased grandfather has contacted the friend to "say" that he is worried about me and sees me at the cross roads.
I was trying to be positive and work on myself with the hope of reconciliation.
This message has almost taken the wind out of my sails. Plus  I said to my W last Thursday that I'm here to talk to and listen to her but stated that I couldn't be her friend while she was still talking to the AP.
I also said that the person that had the affair was not someone I knew anymore.
She responded with "The AP didn't break up our family...I did".
I told her they both did and that the situation was fixable but that she needed to get in touch with the real her.
She said "I needed you to be blunt with me"
Since then she has not contacted me.

[MadLuv]

Pacman- I have been throwing truth darts for 10 months. We think we can make a difference. Open their eyes. We can’t. I think some of the truth darts do take, but not enough for clarity for them. I know many told me over and over I was speaking to a wall. I believe it now. I think it makes them more frustrated and confused. They already have to much swirling in their MLC heads.

I’m so sorry. It’s devastating that they turn into someone we don’t know and worse someone who is the opposite of who we knew.