[KellBell]

I am 41 and my husband is 43. He is going through his MLC currently. BD 7/2/21 moved out 7/8. The whole ILYBINILWY and an added bonus of "I don't want to be a dad and I don't want to a husband." He actually said that to our kids mind you...completely nuts. Our kids are 23, 23, 18 and 10.

I have filed for divorce. But what I wanted to post about are the personality traits of our spouse. In the beginning I would have swore my husband was a great spouse, father and person. But since going to therapy and really doing some in-depth soul-searching, I've realized a lot .

1). My H is immature (Peter Pan syndrome if you will). We started dating when I was 15 and he was 17. Dated through high school, had the twins one month after I graduated, moved in together and married all within the next month. He came from an affluent family and never had to really work or earn anything. We both went to college, worked and took care of the twins for about two years. At which time it was decided that I would stay home and take care of the kids while he worked. I loved- I mean LOVED being a stay at home. I was in my element. I'm a caretaker by nature and really felt I was contributing to our family by doing all the house and kid stuff. I raised the kids and welcomed two more. Continued to be a stay at home mom. I loved taking care of my H.

My H works for the family business and decided to work from home about 18 months ago. He just didn't feel like going into the office anymore. Worked from his recliner for 12-14 hours a day. Basically getting up to eat (a meal I cooked). Definitely depression. Then his dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Our twins graduated college and our middle was leaving for college. Definitely triggers.

Anyway- when he was hit with his midlife crisis he was unable to deal with it due to his immaturity. He can't communicate- not deep conversations or debates. He's easily riled when someone disagrees with him. Especially if our adult children take a stance different from his own. I cooked for him, cleaned for him, did the laundry, raised the kids (although he was there for the fun stuff and around). Basically i realized that he was stunted as a teenager and unable to 'adult'. Because I did all the heavy lifting adulting. He has no close friendships - because he lacks the desire to put in the effort. All the friends we had were my friends and friendships that I fostered and nurtured. Don't get me wrong- he can budget and run the business very well, but emotionally he is just immature. I never realized it until now because I forgave so much. I forgave and overlooked so much because I loved him and loved our family.

Now after some of the shock and hurt and pain is subsiding and I can start to think again...I'm seeing that he was really just ill-equipped to handle this phase of life. He has moved a state a way to work in that branch of the business. Ready to prove himself to his brother/business partner. He also has low self esteem which probably brings it's own set of issues. But he's off in another state ready to start over and in his words "chase my past and find all things I missed out on."

No affair. Just selfish and immature. I really was the go getter, roll up your sleeves and get dirty in a crisis kind of wife. Any hardships or difficulties in our marriage were waded through mostly because of my efforts. So now he's there. And I love him, but can't do this. He needs a reality check. It probably won't help, but I also realized I need someone in my life I can count on and that won't quit on me.

He's super focused on work right now and setting up his 'new' life there. Texts the kids maybe once a week. No phone calls or face time. Has been back twice to see them- the last time for 3 hours. I honestly think he doesn't know how to parent without me there to facilitate. Kind of pathetic. I worry for him. Starting over is hard. And right now it may seem like and adventure, but once the dust settles and reality sets in....I think he'll have a rude awakening. He still texts me to help him through the most mundane things and to talk like we are friends. I don't want to be friends. And I wouldn't be friends with someone else if they treated me like this. I think he texts me because I was his rock, his person and now he doesn't have that. He'll need to learn fast i suppose.

Anyway- that 's my story. But my original thoughts were...do MLC have a similar personality traits? Like if we did an honest inventory of our spouse and our relationship....what underlying traits are there? My H is probably a severe case and everyone saw it but me...because love blinds. But I was wondering if low self esteem and narcissism played a part in those spouses that walked away during the crisis?

thoughts?

[Ready2Transform]

Definitely my first thought is that you sound GREAT! I mean, I'm sure this doesn't feel great. Quite the opposite. But you've got such an amazing handle on the situation, and on maintaining your and your family's stability. It's wise that you've filed as that will protect your financial future (which is not a bad thing, even were he to cycle back). I know for my xH, I took the load of life management and just allowed him to "be", which did not serve his maturity. He said after he left and was living at his mother's, "I know I'll have to start paying my own bills, which is a hard pill to swallow." What grown man says that, y'know? That's maybe what you'd think being out on your own for the first time. But even when he had his own apartment when he was 19-24, he couldn't keep up with his bills and often I'd either handle his budget or loan him money to get utilities turned back on. He really never moved past that.

[Standing Strong]

Wow Kelly,

You have the bull by the horns!! Wooooo!!

It is a shock to see things as they really are. Big terrible shock...... but you finally get to really "See". That's a pretty awesome thing.
I think you're right and he's in for a BIG rude awakening at some point. Such a shame.

Tagging along for the next exciting episode   

-SS

[barbiedoll]

Welcome Kelly .  In many many ways you have described my H and my marriage.  I have been with him nearly 40 years and would also swear on 10 bibles that he was the best husband and father in many many ways . And I do mean the absolute best.  He has returned from his walk on the MLC wildside and in doing years of therapy , I am so shocked on what I have discovered about the way he thinks and functions. I always knew "something" was not all together right, but honestly I never saw so many things .

My husband is also very emotionally immature . He was raised in an extremely abusive home and has "trauma-based " thinking . I realized that developmental trauma as a child has crippled him emotionally and he never fully matured as a man his age should. He told many lies ( I thought he was the most honest man I had ever met) . Hearing the phrase "lying by omission" was a concept he never heard of and disagrees with. I was so shocked I wonder how many "omissions" have there been over the years? . I have noticed many fundamental "knowing" ...he simply missed.

y. He can't communicate- not deep conversations or debates

.

Niether can my H. Its all very superficial . He has a deeply avoidant attachment style ...so any truly deep conversations that "might" make he feel criticised or "wrong" he will avoid at all costs . Of course this means I solve all the problems, carry the full weight of the relationship and he is my superficial passenger in life. And I never saw any of that?  . He can avoid problems like no human I have ever met. There is not one problem that he cannot make worse.  Is it any wonder he blew up, had a breakdown and destroyed everything? He had decades of issues to spew...all that he avoided and never dealt with.  I believed him when he said he was "fine" ...not always , but he would never be anything but "fine". He was far from it.  But , honest to god..I worked full time , have 5 kids and was BUSY . If he said he was "fine" ( for decades} I believed him. Wrong, he was never fine. He hid it all like a warrior, until he couldn't.

He also has low self esteem

.

Yes. mine has almost zero self worth . No one would ever ever see that in my H. The absolute opposite is what he puts out into the world. I am told he carries extreme shame issues that he has kept hidden from me and likely from himself . I recently came across a Pastor called Tim Fletcher and he addresses the issue of shame in CPTSD , addiction and childhood trauma .  This is where I finally found some answers about my H .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfr-jBjQ9Wk

My H also had trouble parenting. If he says anything to any of my daughters he immediately searches my face to see if " he said the right thing" or I approve. He NEVER one time...not one time , disciplined a child in this house. The discipline he endured as a child was so extreme, so abusive that he could not be an adult and learn to discipline. He could only barely say "no" to them if I pushed him to do it. Made him look like a great dad and I was the "meanie".

My H came from an extremely abusive background. He is stunted in many many and only now do I fully understand much of it. On the flip side , he is an extreme "people pleaser" ( now I know what that is about) and he did EVERYTHING for me . He was incredibly good to me as a result and my kids had the best ballet room ( his garage), homemade Barbiedoll cases and every kind of "thing" you can imagine. They travelled the world, treated very very well and was the best "fun dad" ever. He made tons of money ( work addiction for distraction, validation, acknowledgment that he was "good" ) and he was a "family man". So, I did not see many many things . But he has never been an adult . If I left my husband , I am 100 % positive he would never cope . He would be in big trouble. It is a struggle to live with these damaged men in many many ways. He has deep shame issues and if he is unable to deal with that , nothing will change for him. 

[KellBell]

Don't get me wrong- I was a complete mess for three months. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, spent countless hours scouring the internet for what the heck was happening to my H. I found that going to therapy for me, self reflection and an open mind helped the most. Open mind- in the sense that I tried to look at the situation from an outsiders point of view with no bias. That's a tough pill to swallow. I realized my own faults and how I contributed or enabled my H to be this way. No one is perfect and although we all feel like the victim...we have to be open to the idea that we did or allowed behaviors that contributed to this. And that sucks.

My H is a good man and I do love him. But when faced with a crisis...you get to see the real person. And in this case, mine quit on me. He couldn't handle it so it was easier to run away. And it wasn't even my crisis. That's the crappy part. He's having the issue and it's going to follow him...depression, anxiety, low self esteem...those aren't locational. And it doesn't matter where you are, you will have stressful situations and reality to deal with. So I'm not sure really what he's thinking...only that he was unhappy and stressed at home (which was amplified by midlife crisis triggers). And that mixed with midlife regrets and nostalgia became too much.

I wonder if spouses going through MLC are just not equipped to handle the crisis so they try everything and anything OR they just don't want to so they lash out. Like a fight or flight response. What's sad is that I really think underlying personality traits are magnified when in this situation. And although our spouses coasted through life and marriage being a relatively great spouse...when faced with a personal crisis they just can't and crumble. It's really hard to self-reflect and be accountable. For many of us wives...we were the accountable and grounded ones carrying the marriage. We never forced them to face a crisis alone. We didn't want them to have to. And now when they need us the most (which is so obvious to everyone but them) they push us away, hurt us or blame us. It's sad. Because they quit on us and our marriage when we never would have. We were their biggest supporter, their partner, their caretaker...and it's utterly gut wrenching to have that so carelessly disregarded.

Anyway, I may seem like I have it all together but far from it. i just know I need to be strong for my girls. Set a good example and try to navigate all this. I'm not sure I will ever get over it. It really sucks. I miss our family, my friend, my person. But I also know that we grow the most during the most painful moments. So I just gotta take it one day at a time.

It also helps to know that these are their issues. Not ours. And we didn't do anything to deserve this. This is a complete reflection of them not us. And although we love them (flaws and all) we need to see that we deserve better. Whether that be by moving on, trying to work through marital issues with boundaries and therapy, feeling and knowing that they are truly sorry for their actions (and trying to make amends and be better) or just loving and caring for them from the outside of marriage. Whichever path your relationship takes...just know that you deserve better and shouldn't have to settle. You don't need a partner that quits on you, causes pain or disregards you. And I know - sometimes that's the hardest pill to swallow.

[MadLuv]

For many of us wives...we were the accountable and grounded ones carrying the marriage. We never forced them to face a crisis alone. We didn't want them to have to. And now when they need us the most (which is so obvious to everyone but them) they push us away, hurt us or blame us. It's sad. Because they quit on us and our marriage when we never would have. We were their biggest supporter, their partner, their caretaker...and it's utterly gut wrenching to have that so carelessly disregarded

IMHO the fact that we are strong is part of the issue. They are dealing with low self esteem, regret, identity crisis…….My XH told me once that the fact that I was happy, that I could handle anything and everything just made him feel worse about himself. I became  the constant reminder he is a failure. IN HIS MIND, not due to ME or anything I said or did.

This is why if there is a OW/OM they often affair down. To feed their ego, but they need to build themselves up. They use bandaids and outside sources to try and fix themselves rather then face themselves. It truly is not you!!! It is them and only they can fix them. Hardest thing to knock into my brain. I spent a long time not flushing the swirling water of the toilet bowl of my life. Everything you said I have said. It is all so script for us all.

[OldPilot]

Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[KellBell]

The really sad part is I know right now my husband is throwing a tantrum. He's got grand ideas of being able to adult on his own and his own ego is fueling it or maybe it's his desperate need to feel control when he's obviously struggling. I'm honestly not sure he will be able to find another person. Partly because I'm his rock. And even though right now he's pissy and wanting distance...I do feel like common sense will set in, he will hit rock bottom or just hate being alone and come back. I'm filing for divorce so he knows there are consequences. And I kind of do hope he tries to date and find someone else because that will be a reality check on its own. That he has a lot of baggage and I was willing to tolerate and love him...baggage included. A lot of women won't. And he's easily frustrated and upset when he gets push back. So the first time a girlfriend pushes back or wants something deeper...he'll get mad but have to face facts. Most women don't put up with damaged me. Not women of substance or support. Sure he could find someone who just wants his money...but even then. I'd just have to feel sorry for him.

 Either he'll realize what he lost or not. And/or he'll come back and make a concerted effort to change and be better. But if and when he does come back- I'll have myself in order. I'll know what I want, what I'm willing to tolerate and what it will take to earn back a place in my heart. All of that will need to be communicated and as the LBS we need to be in a place to be able to express and be confident in our stand. And the only way we can do that is if we see our husbands flaws and our personal flaws that enabled him to be this way.

It's a crazy web we weave...for sure.

[marvin4242]

Hi Kelly, as others have said welcome to the board. You sound like you are in a much better place than a lot of us were this early in the process and that is a credit to you.

I do want to point a few things you said in the last post that may be red flags. Take it as you will or ignore it as you want.

I'm honestly not sure he will be able to find another person. Partly because I'm his rock.

This may both be an indicator of what led him here and if he is ever to find his way out and you two reconcile I would suggest that this is not the relationship that you may want. He should be his own "rock" and you two should be supporting each other after you take care of yourself. This suggest a degree of dependency. What do you get out of being his "rock?"

he will hit rock bottom or just hate being alone and come back. I'm filing for divorce so he knows there are consequences.

Do you really want him to come back just not to be alone? And I am a little concerned about filing divorce so he knows something. That decision is purely yours, you should do it because its something YOU want or YOU need, not in order to do something to him. Besides not being a good idea for you it assume he is anywhere where consequences matter. I think that ship already sailed, no?

That he has a lot of baggage and I was willing to tolerate and love him...baggage included.

One of the few upsides of this experience is we get a chance to breathe and re-examine "the way things were" win a new light. It may be an interesting question to ask yourself why you were willing to do this. What was in it for you?

Either he'll realize what he lost or not. And/or he'll come back and make a concerted effort to change and be better. But if and when he does come back- I'll have myself in order. I'll know what I want, what I'm willing to tolerate and what it will take to earn back a place in my heart.

This is a great view and place to be, but unless I am misreading it it contradicts the things quoted above. No?

[Nas]

Hi Kelly, following your thread and you're getting great advice and insight.

I see some small similarities that I wanted to comment on.

I'm filing for divorce so he knows there are consequences. And I kind of do hope he tries to date and find someone else because that will be a reality check on its own. That he has a lot of baggage and I was willing to tolerate and love him...baggage included. A lot of women won't.

I agree with what Marvin said that filing for divorce should be for you, to protect your family's financial well being, but not to show him consequences, because honestly he probably can't grasp the concept of consequences.

On the subject of his baggage and finding someone else, this may surprise you, but this thought may have already crossed his mind - I was really extremely puzzled by the fact that for at least a year before BD, my former H kept saying how lucky he was that I "put up with him." Not saying it to me - sweeping statements on social media about his amazing wife who "puts up with me." The last birthday card he gave me literally said, "I love that thing you do, you know the one...keep doing it" and then on the inside it said, "Putting up with me."

I now see that not only was it true that he saw me as his "rock" who "put up with him," that was an unhealthy and unsustainable dynamic. As Marvin said, in a healthy relationship there's interdependency, not just one sturdy rock. 
I believe my former H was actually keenly aware of what a difficult person he was to be in relationship with and was contemplating for some time whether anyone else would cater to him the way I always had (in my mostly subconscious attempt to be the perfect wife/rock so that he would always need me/want me and never leave). He was not looking to grow as a person or do any adulting on his own, he was looking to be "put up with" and taken care of like always, and he indeed found someone to "put up with him." There's broken people everywhere, and people will put up with an awful lot to get a desired benefit, be it a sugar daddy or just a warm body next to them at night.

I don't say this to scare you or discourage you. I just know I recognized a bit of my early post-BD self in your words. And I felt hesitant to post about this, but since you seem to be on good footing so early on, I thought it might be just a helpful word of caution. It's easy to think they're looking through the same lens as us, but they're not. Getting yourself set up for a life with or without him, as you seem to be doing, is the best way forward, because anything can happen - knowing you and your kids are okay no matter what comes is key.

[barbiedoll]

There's broken people everywhere, and people will put up with an awful lot to get a desired benefit, be it a sugar daddy or just a warm body next to them at night.

.

Absolutely 100% true. They will always find someone ( with a different lens) who thinks they are gold.

[MadLuv]

On the subject of his baggage and finding someone else, this may surprise you, but this thought may have already crossed his mind - I was really extremely puzzled by the fact that for at least a year before BD, my former H kept saying how lucky he was that I "put up with him." Not saying it to me - sweeping statements on social media about his amazing wife who "puts up with me." The last birthday card he gave me literally said, "I love that thing you do, you know the one...keep doing it" and then on the inside it said, "Putting up with me."

I have that same card from my XH and he in fact found a OW that put up with more. One that lost both her parents at a young age and wanted to just live a better life style and is putting up with and frankly enabling him. Allowing him not to address his issues and grow. Exactly where an avoidant wants to be….for now!

[KellBell]

Thanks for your responses. I should clarify that I'm not filing for divorce to teach him a lesson. I'm doing it for me and for my children. We are first and foremost right now. Our security and our lives. I think one day he will realize he messed up and left something great. Do I care if he ever realizes that? No. But thinking it helps me cope just a little bit.

I also realize now that I took care of him and 'put up' with him because I am a care taker. And i don't like tension or fighting. It was always easier to just do it or take care of it rather than ruffle his feathers. And also because I loved him. We were childhood sweethearts and I fell in love with that immature kid...he just never grew out of it. And not all because of me and my catering. I also know that I like to be depended on - it gives me a sense of self worth. Which is something I'm definitely going to have to work on.

I am well aware of my flaws and parts of me I need to work on.

I also know that he could very well find someone else. And I am ok with that. It will hurt but we can't be together the way we are right now. Or maybe ever again. So I'm accepting of that as a possibility. And that's another reason for the divorce. It's a way of protecting me. If we were still married- I would personally feel obligated as his wife to help him, give him another chance, try to work on things. The divorce will give me a clear tangible legal separation from him. IT's something I need to process all of this.

My husband is emotionally immature and entitled. Part of his upbringing I suppose. He never had to earn anything. OR work for anything. Money was handed to him. A career path was handed to him even after he dropped out of college. His parents consistently bailed him out of any negative situation And he went from them and their house to me. And I somehow filled that role. Giving him my love without him having to earn it or work for it. A home and a family without him having to work for it. A marriage that he didn't have to work at. Believe me- I totally see my flaws and mistakes in this. I can't believe I did that. Or that I put up with that. But like I said - love blinds a lot. He was my first real relationship, my first of a lot of things and I honestly didn't know how off things were. By researching things and talking to people, I'm seeing that I was not in a healthy relationship.

My husband and I separated when were 21 and 23 and the twins were just 3. He didn't want to be a dad and do the family thing. We were separated 5 months before he came back. Saying he realized what he was throwing away and that he missed his family. Looking back- I honestly think he just couldn't hack it on his own. And his parents- for once- called him out on his crap and refused to help him. So it was easier to come back to the girls and I.

My H doesn't have any friends. None. One high school buddy that he calls every once in a blue moon. But no friends. I honestly don't think he is capable of a healthy relationship- not even a friendship. He doesn't like to be disagreed with. He doesn't try to see other points of view and he can't accept responsibility for anything negative. He's very negative and bitter- partly because of his self esteem issues. If he tears people down and points out their flaws then they come down to his level and he feels more like equals. And I think I was his rock because there was literally no one else. No one else to talk to or go to or confide in. By default. I know wives are supposed to be there for their husbands...but I was all he had. Like I said- definitely some baggage.

All this being said- I do want him to be well. I do want what is best for him. And right now, I think letting him figure stuff out on his own is the best course of action. No one can tell you need to change. You need to decide for yourself you need to change. Or at least self reflect. I know this is going to be a really difficult time for him. He is coping and numbing with alcohol and weed. Staying busy with work so he doesn't have to process. I want him to make friends and have support out there. It worries me the most that he is going through this with no one. He is overweight with no hobbies. Literally a workaholic. He has placed all his eggs in the work basket. He is dead set on using this chance to prove himself to his brother. To prove his worth. In reality he doesn't have to. He is an equal partner. It was handed to him with him not having to work for it...so maybe knowing that lowered his self esteem even more. I don't know. But i do know he is shooting for the moon with this plan. He setting an unattainable goal and that coupled with no friends, no family, depression, low self esteem, emotional immaturity and everything else...it all just boggles the mind.

It will definitely be a learning curve for him.

[Zion]

Um WOW!!!! You are lightyears ahead of most LBSs even a few years out.  Maybe because you have been his Mother and you were 100% aware and are now ready to leave that roll behind.  Take care of yourself and find a few path and maybe a true partner.

You are on the right path with your intensions!

The below shouldn't be your focus, though it shows your heart, as well as your tendency for saving him.  Taking are of himself, so he can show up for his family is HIS responsibility.  Taking care of yourself and doing some work around why you put up with his behavior and lack of partnership should be your goal. 

Kelly sounds really really BADASS!!!!

All this being said- I do want him to be well. I do want what is best for him. And right now, I think letting him figure stuff out on his own is the best course of action. No one can tell you need to change. You need to decide for yourself you need to change. Or at least self reflect. I know this is going to be a really difficult time for him. He is coping and numbing with alcohol and weed. Staying busy with work so he doesn't have to process. I want him to make friends and have support out there. It worries me the most that he is going through this with no one. He is overweight with no hobbies. Literally a workaholic. He has placed all his eggs in the work basket. He is dead set on using this chance to prove himself to his brother. To prove his worth. In reality he doesn't have to. He is an equal partner. It was handed to him with him not having to work for it...so maybe knowing that lowered his self esteem even more. I don't know. But i do know he is shooting for the moon with this plan. He setting an unattainable goal and that coupled with no friends, no family, depression, low self esteem, emotional immaturity and everything else...it all just boggles the mind.

It will definitely be a learning curve for him.

[Curiosity]

Kelly, I’m so impressed with how you’re navigating this. I see a lot of familiar things - not just in my own story but in several stories here… an MLCer who never fully grew up, who seeks validation yet always on some level feel like life owes them more than they have; an LBS who avoids conflict, who is a fixer and a caretaker and who happily takes on the role of the grown up. Sometimes we think they’re a little immature when they’re young, but they’ll grow out of it - and of course a lot of people do. And of course every story is unique in many ways, but the common elements are pretty remarkable.

The single most important thing I have done in this process was to turn my lens inward; to look not at how I contributed to the crisis, but at how our marriage really was and at how I really was. The second most important thing was to realize that my frailties didn’t make me a bad person but they did represent things I would be happier and more fulfilled if I changed… and then to actually make those changes.

No advice to add - you’re doing all the right things as best I can tell!

[UrsaMajor]

Na ja Kelly,

It will happen sooner or later to him.....



Better to happen when you are NOT acting as either parachute or cushion...

[KellBell]

Something interesting....

I talked to my therapist today who mentioned Grass is Always Green syndrome. And after looking into it a bit...I can safely say my H definitely possesses a lot of those characteristics.

We have upgraded houses about every 5 years in our marriage. This last time (5 years ago) we built a beautiful 6,000sqf 'forever dream home'.

My H always took us on bigger and better vacations, newer and better cars, toys etc. It seemed like a routine cycle. In looking at that - I think it was 1) because of his entitlement issues 2) because he was always in search of something better...and by searching for something better it was a project that for him to dive into and research. Partly because it gives him a mission or something to control...I don't know. Hard to explain.

So is probably shouldn't be all that surprising that low and behold right on schedule...year 5 in this house and he decides it's time for something better. Only where do you go when you have financial security, a beautiful home, and wife and kids that love you? Well...you see if starting a new life could be better. A life that is more focused on 'me' rather than 'us'. He is definitely in the research/project phase of the move. He has a fully furnished rental house for year. Looking at real estate and planning to buy a house when the lease is up. He's busy getting his car registered there and getting a new state license. All the normal relocation stuff. So definitely in the 'project' phase of finding something better. I just wonder how it will be when all the relocation stuff is done and it's time to 'set up a life'. Make friends, date, find happiness... Right now he is a workaholic and drinking a lot to cope. But eventually he is going to have to 'set up life' there or he's going to fail. And since he's a habitual quitter when things get tough...that kind of worries me. Mostly because I care about him but also because he is the father of my children and they deserve a dad that can figure his sh@t out. Guess we'll see.

Anyway... I thought that was really interesting. Especially since the kids and I have recently talked about how it felt like he was always searching for better with all the moves. I will say this is where the midlife crisis comes in. Because a rational and logical person would not think that starting over by yourself, cutting out your family and kids and leaving your life behind sounds like fun or something better.

Anyone's husbands have GIAG syndrome or glimpses of it in their marriages?

[KellBell]

I have a question regarding minor kids. I get that this is his thing to figure out and I'm giving him space to do that via a divorce (lots of reasons precipitated that). I don't talk to him unless it's about scheduling a visit. I have full custody at his request.

So my question is...do I send him photos and videos of the kids OR no? Like we went to the pumpkin patch...or halloween is coming up or she's in a volleyball tournament this weekend.

Not sure...like I want to because these were annual things that he took part in, but also I don't want him to feel anymore shame or regret.

thoughts?

[Rollercoasterider]

Yes, send him photos and /or videos of the kids.
He should feel shame and regret when it's self-created. You sending pictures doesn't mean you're creating the shame and regret. Yes, it can be overwhelming, but it's of his doing. Don't shelter him from his self-created shame.

[UrsaMajor]

I still send xW pictures of things that the kids and I are doing (I take the pics so am not in them) and I am nearly ABD + 5 years and have moved forward with my life. I do it to show that the kids are not simply sitting behind their screens (computer or phone) when they are with me as she has often hinted at, that they are taken care of just as well, if not better with me than when they are sitting at her house watching TV or playing on their PCs....

Maybe it is the wrong thing to do - some might consider it passive-aggressive - but for me it is a way to keep xW informed about what is happening with the kids when they are with me. What she feels as a result is outside my realm of control.... Not my circus, not my monkeys...

[rosetintedglasses]

I would be mostly focused on how it makes ‘you’ feel.

Whether he is guilty or not how do YOU feel sending these pics and having him (or her, UM) in your headspace?

I would always consider his reply to this and how it effects you.

 If he doesn’t reply how will you feel, if he replies with a thumbs up emoji how will you feel, if he replies with ‘thanks so much’ or ‘ok’ or ‘I miss them’ or something angry or something about him with OW how will you feel? Will he be in your head? Will you think about his response/lack of response for days? Is it having best of both worlds - being with OW and not missing out on what his children are doing? Will he really feel shame at this stage? Is he not still thinking he has made a good decision and this proves it as the children are still happy?

Interested to read RCR’s reply as I have not been doing that and it makes me feel better not including him. The children aren’t doing fun things to prove to him they are ok they are doing it as I am giving them a good life and I don’t need to prove that to him or keep him in the loop about it. (I can see that it is different for a father LBS.)

I do remember feeling like that Kelly and yes he is missing out big time but that’s his choice, for now.

We are all in different situations but I’d focus on how you feel now. You can’t ‘nice’ him back.

I am off to think through following RCR’s advice now so thanks for posting!
Rose 🌹

[KellBell]

I am curious of the day to day life of an MLC-er. For my H, he works 7:30-5 M-F. He is a co-owner of a family owned business and seems to be keeping his crap in order at work. A little work obsessed right now and then drinking a lot when he gets home. Lives away from us so not entirely sure of what he does on weekends and weeknights, but when he does talk to his kids he's usually at home cooking dinner or working on his laptop.

So my question is- do most MLC-ers keep it together enough to function fairly normally?

[Disillusioned]

This was definitely my experience. No one, outside of me and perhaps my 7 year old D at the time, would have known there was anything going on.  She kept a workplace affair a secret and worked her way up the ladder there. She also took care of the death of her mother and never seemed to blink an eye. I think they are extremely adept at compartmentalizing, as it is typically a skill they learned early in life. I, on the other hand, could barely keep it together!

[OldPilot]

All threads merged - try to stick to one thread until 150 post - thank you for your cooperation.

[Imgood]

Attaching!

[One day at a time]

I am curious of the day to day life of an MLC-er. For my H, he works 7:30-5 M-F. He is a co-owner of a family owned business and seems to be keeping his crap in order at work. A little work obsessed right now and then drinking a lot when he gets home. Lives away from us so not entirely sure of what he does on weekends and weeknights, but when he does talk to his kids he's usually at home cooking dinner or working on his laptop.

So my question is- do most MLC-ers keep it together enough to function fairly normally?

I think it depends on the person. My MLCer became a bit of a workaholic too and a few months after he left the house, he moved abroad and managed the whole move/paperwork on his own (I would've done all that kind of stuff when we were married) and has kept the same job for the last 3 years so he seems to be keeping it together...

There are other aspects of his life that are way off.. Or at least for me and other people who know him. Very radical changes in his life that if anyone told me 5 years ago this would happen, I would have laughed out loud and tell that person that he/she was totally crazy.. And yet, here we are. It's not so much the day to day, I haven't seen him since he moved abroad and have no idea what he does but it's around a number of actions over the past few years that have turned him into a person I don't recognize.

I think the best is to leave your H to it. He will do what he will do, there's not way to save him or protect him from himself. You really sound like you are in a great place so keep focusing on you and your kids.

[KellBell]

So here we are 11 months out from BD1 and 5 months from BD2. H is still living a state away in a rental. I filed for divorce but am still standing.

We had a decent talk last night. Lots of "I'm a loser. I really f-ed up. Maybe I'll just die." etc. I didn't blame or placate just listened. I really realized what a crappy place he is in. And although I have already detached...I'm really starting to feel confidant in my decision to let him be. I am at peace knowing this is his issue to work out. I could sense his insecurities and one thing that really hit me - was he said "I truly want to feel appreciated some day. I'm going to work on that and do good things before I die." I know he's talking about work and finding his worth and value in the company. It's just so heartbreaking to hear him or anyone for that matter...feel like they aren't worth anything of value.

Anyway- just thought I would post and confirm what most of us already know. And that is the fact that MLCers are really broken. I hope my H can find what he is looking for.

[MadLuv]

I just spent the last year having those talks and it got me nowhere. XH just moved in with someone he is living in fantasy world with. While I carried his emotional baggage. Worried for his safety. His peace of mind. Worry about your piece of mind. Easier said than done and all those on here that advise me are probably thinking……helllooooooo. That’s what we said!!!!

It takes a lot to walk away from someone you love, but they aren’t the one you love right now. If it is meant to be. If they find themselves and you are still open to a R then maybe then. I try to remember that I could never have walked away from XH or my family. I can’t live with or have a R with someone that doesn’t value me as much as I value him. It’s so very hard to let go. So HARD

[KellBell]

Torn up- I completely agree. I know i will never understand why he did what he did. But I will always care for him. It makes it easier to know he's not just being an A$& and that he really is having issues. Doesn't take all the pain away but makes it a tiny bit bearable. AND the mean part of me is like...yay...your life sucks too! Welcome to the party jerk.

Anyway...I'm in full on growth mode. Focusing on my kids and myself and doing what's best for us while their dad figures his stuff out. It does get easier with each passing day. Faith and strength are all I have right now...so onward we go.

[Curiosity]

Just to chime in on this… my W moved back in, said she didn’t want to be separated, continues to say that our marriage is her priority. And still, every once in a while (and a bit more in recent days), I get this apology: “I’m sorry I’m such a mess.” There’s a lot of self-pity and wallowing, but ultimately, they have to own up  to the mess. It’s not who they are inherently, it’s what they choose to do. And if they want to not be “a mess,” they can choose to act in responsible and caring ways. In some ways, it tugs at your heart because this is someone you love who is clearly struggling. But it’s also frustrating because the solution is  in their hands, and they are too scared or weak or ashamed to actually take action.

[KellBell]

It's crazy how some days you can be ok with detaching. Let them be them and figure their crap out. Then for the tiniest moment...worry, love, anger and hate creep in and you feel yourself losing it all over again.

ughhh.... day by day. Really wish we could just fast forward through the holidays...feel like it's going to be a rough one.

[Thunder]

Kelly the holidays can be very rough, especially the first ones, and I'm sorry.  All we can do is get through them, they do get easier.

But maybe the best thing to do is do something different for these holidays.  Make different traditions.  Change it up from what you and your family used to do.

Feed the homeless dinners, change how you do gift giving, maybe change were you always go, what you always do.  Maybe your family will have ideas.  It does help.

What ever of is Kelly, make something new that you H was not part and it will help you miss him less being there.

[KellBell]

I'm at a loss for the kids. I'm good with detaching and figuring out my feelings. But what he's doing to the kids is so unacceptable. He texts them once every few weeks. No phone calls or facetime. He moved a state away for work. During his last visit (over a month ago) his visit lasted a whole three hours. I'm just at a loss. Not really expecting advice...just venting and feeling sad for them. Especially our 10 year old who was especially close to her dad. It's been so rough on her.

Ughhhhhh. I hate this

[UrsaMajor]

This is just SO "MLC for Dummies - how to follow the script" with regards to the kids... Male Mid-Lifers seem especially prone to this as they seem to view everything associated with their "former" life as "the cause of their problems" so they just walk away... kids, spouse, work, everything....

Then, when they build this happy new life that they want and find out - Oh shock! - NOTHING HAS CHANGED and they are STILL just as miserable as they were before - the guilt sets in and they withdraw even further OR they finally begin to extract their head from their .... fog.... and may try to reconnect... but, the fact of the matter is, no matter how fast or how far they run away, there they are...

It is sad for the kids....

[KellBell]

You would think with my H a state away that I could detach more easily. I know that this person is not my H, not the one I married. But damn his actions hurt to the core. Just so much nonsense and craziness...no way of understanding which is usually the first part of processing. I just need to get away from him. And stay away from him until he figures things out.

He hasn't mentioned wanting to do anything with the girls for thanksgiving. Which really hurts the kids. Especially when his narrative is that we are divorcing and loves his kids oh so much. Yet he doesn't talk to them , text them or call them. Maybe a quick generic text every two or three weeks. Rarely visits and is really just an ass. Ughhhh. Last night our youngest was like "It's like dad has no emotions. He's not happy. He's not sad. He's just nothing." Which says a lot when a ten year old can see that. Speaking of our youngest D- she recently had to write an opinion essay for her class and it was titled "Not every Adult Should Be a Parent". OOOF! All the kids and myself are in therapy. But still- just makes me so angry that his actions  are hurting the kids. And he's just so lost in his foggy tunnel that he can't see it or doesn't want to see.

Anyway, just a rough week.

[UrsaMajor]

Nothing to add/advise.... Just

[MadLuv]

My XH is a state away also and is touch and go.
Texting with kids here and there. In total escape, but no happier.
This song really resonates with me when I am at a loss. We cant fix them!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eHbNU9WuVgw

[KellBell]

Just as I thought. H isn't going to make it back to see the girls for Thanksgiving and I'm to blame in his twisted narrative. Thank goodness the girls see right through it. Can't even imagine what the next few years is going to be like if this is the amount of effort he's going to exert. So sad.

[Nas]

I’m sorry, Kelly. It’s so hard to understand their choices, but it shows where his head is at that he can’t seem to make the effort to see his kids. I hope you and your girls have a nice holiday planned for yourselves. ((Hugs))

[KellBell]

Thanks Nas

He texted me today saying the reason he didn't schedule anything with the girls is because I told him to stop talking to me, that I was too busy. I am busy, but he's referring to two weeks ago when he was drunk texting me at midnight and I had an early morning. I told him I had to go- busy day tomorrow. And that turned into 'Stop talking to me." It's really like talking to a child sometimes. Hear what they want to hear. Read what they want to read.

Frustrating.

The girls and I are headed back to my hometown to see my family (mom, grandparents, brother etc.) It will be a nice few days. It's always nice to get away for a bit.

[Nas]

I’m glad to hear you’ve got a nice holiday planned.

And yes, the twisting of our words can be crazy making if we give it too much energy. He’s trying to justify his actions by making you yo blame - you know the truth. Scheduling time with his girls has nothing to do with what you said or didn’t say to him… That is just a desperate reach on his part to justify his behavior.
Alcohol adds a layer of madness too - I hope the drunk texts don’t become a regular thing. Remember the rule of 3 (wait 3 weeks/dats/hours before replying to any messages that don’t require an immediate response) when replying to him for that very reason that he will use your own words to justify himself and gaslight you. Exactly 5 years ago, my former H had already been living 1000 miles away with his “new family” and his whole new life for 6 months when I moved to a new state to start a new life for myself, and he actually drunk messaged me repeatedly, and I responded every time, which gave him ample opportunity to twist all my responses. He was desperately grasping at straws - and even said my moving (to a less expensive area to get back in my feet) proved I “never loved him.” 🙄
They either project like crazy or just plain don’t make sense.

[KellBell]

Yep- I'm done with the texting games and had done really well until that night. Moment of weakness I suppose.

It's not hard to detach when he acts like this. Just frustrating and sad.

[UrsaMajor]

He texted me today saying the reason he didn't schedule anything with the girls is because I told him to stop talking to me, that I was too busy. I am busy, but he's referring to two weeks ago when he was drunk texting me at midnight and I had an early morning. I told him I had to go- busy day tomorrow. And that turned into 'Stop talking to me." It's really like talking to a child sometimes. Hear what they want to hear. Read what they want to read.

"I am sorry that you feel that way. We both know that is not what I said."

[Treasur]

an added bonus of "I don't want to be a dad and I don't want to a husband." He actually said that to our kids mind you...completely nuts. Our kids are 23, 23, 18 and 10.

From your first post.....
Bc that is exactly what he is doing, isn’t it? We say here not to believe much they say.....bc so much of it is lies, projection and just nonsense tbh.....like his recent text about it all being your fault  . But there are times in the midst of the crazy BS when their f’ed up truth gets vomited up  What’s remarkable of course to a sane adult is how they whine about the inevitable and predictable consequences of their own choices.......
Nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with your kids. All him. And his inability or unwillingness to see that if you choose X you also choose X consequences....if you don’t much like them, choose differently, right? Nobody else’s job to tidy that up for you but you.

A little helpful reminder for your sanity, just in case you need it 

[MadLuv]

Ahhh, the old that’s not what I said. That’s not what I meant m. We have all heard it. Some how they can always turn it on us, can’t they?  Cant make sense of nonsense !

[Nas]

He texted me today saying the reason he didn't schedule anything with the girls is because I told him to stop talking to me, that I was too busy. I am busy, but he's referring to two weeks ago when he was drunk texting me at midnight and I had an early morning. I told him I had to go- busy day tomorrow. And that turned into 'Stop talking to me." It's really like talking to a child sometimes. Hear what they want to hear. Read what they want to read.

"I am sorry that you feel that way. We both know that is not what I said."

This.

Although, from experience, when they’re drunk it doesn’t really matter. It’s almost like they remember the conversation a certain way and there’s nothing you can say to change their mind. Even with text exchanges, mine would delete written correspondence and insist what he “remembered” was the only truth. That’s why before he vanished  I kept all conversation to email and text that I could save, and didn’t engage or respond when he was drunk.

Good for you for setting a boundary and not engaging in his texting games.
Hang in there.
xx
Nas

[KellBell]

What I don't get - is why doesn't anyone else see how crazy he's being? Or do they see bits and just aren't questioning it. Like the girls and I are completely floored by his words and actions. And  I get that he can sway the narrative anyway he wants with other people. But just his actions alone are hard to understand.

He left his family. With only a suitcase. Didn't take anything and doesn't want anything including us or the dogs. Moved to CO and doesn't visit or talk to his kids. Wants to start over.

If anything it's freaking childish and immature. Who just walks away from 23 years without wrapping things up. There is a way to dissolve a marriage and get everything in order. Running away wasn't it. That in itself is crazy and not like him.

I reached out to his old high school buddy that he still talks to on occasion and just asked him to look out for him since we were no longer in the picture. And he said that he seems fine. Seriously? So weird. Anyway...just another question to add to the many I suppose.

I never would have imagined all this craziness in a million years.

[Treasur]

I never would have imagined all this craziness in a million years.

Well, you’re preaching to the choir here lol bc we have seen it and lived through it.  and that changes ones lens overall I think. I find it much easier to accept the reality of crazy WTF than I used to  And avoid it like the plaque tbh 

I suspect in RL others (most) make assumptions that someone did the necessary normal adulting behind the scenes unseen by them like a more normal end to a marriage or they (some) buy whatever superficial story the MLCer is selling eg grew apart/twu lurve left me no choice/deserve to be happy/horrible spouse  Takes a while for the crazy to ripple out perhaps? And they often discard old folks for new shiny ones who don’t have a prior benchmark, I suppose, or who have very low standards or equally disordered ideas on normal....

[MadLuv]

And he said that he seems fine. Seriously? So weird. Anyway...just another question to add to the many I suppose.

oh, it takes a while, but it starts being noticeable. My own kids said he seemed fine. If he keeps going down this road it is harder to keep the make on. It takes a while, but I get messages from old friends and co-workers that ask what is up with him now.

[Nas]

And he said that he seems fine. Seriously? So weird. Anyway...just another question to add to the many I suppose.

oh, it takes a while, but it starts being noticeable.

Or it may not. There's a few things to consider. One, people see what they focus on even if it isn't there or isn't what they think they see. What appears obviously "off" to the LBS may seem perfectly normal to others.
And two, people are just not invested in the relationships of others (For good reason, it's no one's business really and non-codependent people with good boundaries know this). If you think about the couples you know who have broken up, it's more than likely been a mere blip on your radar. You might feel bad for one or both parties, you might lend an ear or support them, but it's not something you spend any amount of time thinking about or taking steps to try to "fix."

Social media especially would have us all thinking everyone cares about our relationship, what with all the likes and superficial "Aww, you guys are so cute" type comments when someone posts a photo. But in reality, it would be weird if others were that invested in or involved with our relationship. I love my friends very much, but when/if their relationships end, I don't feel any obligation or desire to try to intervene. I support them, and everyone knows I wouldn't cheerlead for anyone having an affair, but I also wouldn't take steps to stop an autonomous adult from doing anything.  There's just SO much that goes on between two people who are intimately involved that no one outside the two partners can know. It would be honestly overstepping for a person to actively intervene in the breakup of a couple when we can't know what has, is and will be shared between just them.

By the same token, look at the flipside: we wouldn't want anyone interfering in a new relationship we're just starting - trying to either obstruct it or push it forward - or trying to force us to be with someone we don't want to be with. It's the same thing when a relationship is ending, no one should be actively participating in any part of it. Recently my former trainer gave my phone number to a friend of his without asking me if he could. This guy called me out of the blue and then started texting me, even after I very politely declined a date. Then my former trainer, knowing I'd already turned the guy down, sent a text to both of us inviting us to go out with him and his wife. I contacted him separately and made it clear he better start respecting my boundaries. It was honestly obnoxious and weird. Anyone that invested in someone else's life or relationship status is suspect, imo. And this is not at all the first time I've been in this situation in the past years, though this one was an extreme overstep.
Now, if this guy had intervened this hard when my former H was leaving, I might've at first, in my broken despair, been okay with it, but looking at it with clear eyes, it would've been equally intrusive and weird.

It's so hard early on to feel like we're seeing a level of crazy that we could never imagine and yet no one else seems to see it. It almost makes us feel crazy - in fact, I know it did for me. The truth is others probably do see it, but it's not affecting their lives and they don't feel it's their place to investigate what's happening and/or step in. And that's actually a good thing, because, again, in "normal times" we don't want to be surrounded by people who interfere in our personal lives. Also, any outside interference in the case of MLC will likely drive the MLCer even further away, so it's a blessing in disguise that others don't get involved.

[OffRoad]

My XH can look normal to others for long periods of time. He knows how to put on the mask, and most people have no idea how he ended the relationship. Also, that's what being "the bigger person" often does for you. No one knows unless they happened to be there during an episode of "YOU have caused me to be an unreliable, lying, gas lighting, stealing, cheating abandoning person, I have no fault in this at all". So if no one knows what happened, and the MLCer acts vanilla normal around the rest of the world, everyone thinks they are "just fine".

And maybe they are. Maybe they will be "just fine" as long as they don't have anyone around them who knows who they really are and/or what they have done to get where they are. There are a lot of disordered people out there who only take on Flying Monkeys as acolytes. That is where "detachment" comes in. Where you can look at what they are doing or saying, know that it just really is about them and not you, and think "Huh. How about that." Not get upset that they are doing crazy things, not care that no one else notices or cares, just working your way down your own path and giving yourself distance from the crazy train so you don't get run over.

You are being the strong and sane one for your girls. Take care and hope your Thanksgiving goes well.

[HeavenlyFocus]

I know with my W that she compartmentalizes her life and tries to hide some of the dysfunction from others.   I empathize with you as this will be the first year that my family will apart over the holidays.   Hang in there and I hope you and your kids enjoy your trip to visit your family.

HF

[KellBell]

We had a wonderful Thanksgiving with my family. Loved spending time with them, especially my grandparents. Something special about going 'home'.

Husband didn't text the girls until they texted him just before bed. Guessing it was a 'I'm not going to text them- they can text me' type of thing - which he has been doing a lot of lately. Anyway, we all just shook our heads at his replies. They were so impersonal and weird. To my D18 he texted

Happy Thanksgiving
Hope you had fun
I had steak and crab
love
dad

exactly like that. Like who texts that way!? And it sounded like my ten year old was typing it. Just crazy. Anyway, happy to be home today and watching football with the girls and decorating for Christmas.

[KellBell]

Talked to H lastnight via text. Had some financial questions which led to the kids which led to us. Something he said stuck with me all night. He said I've been exhausted for a few years. And since July (when he moved out) even more so...Every day is a struggle and it takes so much effort to just get up each day.

My heart breaks for him. But I know I can't fix him. I told him I'd always be here and that he doesn't have to do this alone.

But I just thought how true it is the MLCers are broken. And even though at times it just seems like a nice excuse to behave like an as$...they really do have issues and are hurting.

[marvin4242]

My heart breaks for him. But I know I can't fix him. I told him I'd always be here and that he doesn't have to do this alone.

But I just thought how true it is the MLCers are broken. And even though at times it just seems like a nice excuse to behave like an as$...they really do have issues and are hurting.

I think this is an important insight sometimes, and something I definitely try to keep in mind when I can. But never at my expense and never without holding them fully responsible for their actions and decisions...

[KellBell]

Marvin4242

Definitely not excusing his behavior! Just gives me a little more insight to how he is feeling. It kind of just makes the whole situation even more sad. hard to explain.

[KellBell]

journaling

I'm only 6 months out from BD and although I've come a long ways (I'm not completely confused anymore...I know it's a MLC, it's not me or our marriage or our kids, these are his issues, his problems to figure out. I understand more in the sense that I'm not completely blindsided. I know this is not the person I married. I'm not sure who he is. I'm not sure he knows who he is.) I still feel overwhelmed. More so for my kids than for me.

I can honestly say I don't know this person. The person I married and loved would not do this, say these things or inflict so much pain. So I'm grieving the loss of my husband. My person and my friend. In a lot of ways it feels like he died. It's a very strange dynamic. Because as I'm grieving, I'm also pissed as hell that he would intentionally hurt our girls, so nonchalantly and without reservation. From my perspective- he just walked away. Told them he doesn't want to be a dad anymore. Moved away. But it's more like he put them on a shelf. And every few weeks he reaches out via text to play 'dad' with them. It's the weakest and smallest effort above NO effort. His texts are lame and short and superficial. And it's infuriating because he told them he doesn't want to be a dad- so just don't then. Leave them alone. Quit reaching out. It's confusing and irritating to me so I can't even imagine what it's like for the kids. My older three girls are just done. And it's palpable - he would have to be deaf or stupid not to sense it when he talks to them. ughhhh.

My therapist suggested no contact. Not to force anything or for his benefit. But for me. I can't continue to care and give and worry and wonder. I was doing great with detaching as a wife. But not as a mother for my girls. Especially for our youngest. I was trying to coordinate and facilitate the holidays and really its just to the point where he's going to be a disappointment either way. He can't function as a father right now- not even in the smallest ways so why push it. My girls are better off with him just being gone- out of the picture. Sending random stupid texts every few weeks. Because eventually they are just going to quit responding. They are adults. They have no obligation to him. So as of yesterday- I'm done. Christmas can come and go with or without him. And the girls and I are ok with that. I thought that Thanksgiving would be hard- the first holiday without him. But honestly it was fine. We had a great time. And the loser that he is- was sitting at home by himself. I'm sure he was 'numbing' all day.

I think the thing that gave me this final push into NC was he texted complaining about how lonely he is, how hard his life is, money stuff etc. And I was thinking to myself- what a jerk. Your life is crappy, 100%. So bad you wish you would die some days (all his words). And even still- you would prefer that life over a life with me and the kids. WTH!? Even in my darkest days following BD- I never wanted to die. Let alone feel that way on multiple occasions. So screw you, dude. My worth is more than that. I deserve more than that. I want better than that. And not just for me but for my girls. I want someone who chooses us, who values us, who lives to be with us.

That realization coupled with my therapist's advice was really what I needed this week. I am a caring person by nature. I want to help and fix and please and just make things better for everyone and everything. Small things. Big things. Help in anyway I'm able. Not just with my husband, but with friends, family, community, clubs, strangers etc. So not being able to fix or help him was really hard for me to accept. But I have.

I also went to lunch with a couple of friends today. And they were just blown away by everything that has happened. Like jaws on the table gobsmacked speechless shocked. And honestly somedays I am too. It's all just so unbelievable.

Anyway- just thoughts I have tonight. Proud of myself for making the hard decision to go NC and to stop worrying/wondering. His path, journey, issues- whatever you want to call them. But my friends today reiterated that I'm a good person. I have worth and value. And that it isn't diminished in anyway by my H or his actions. I knew that in my heart but to hear someone tell you that - it's really what you need sometimes. Because the amount of damage to the LBS's self esteem is horrifying. I've also realized how much my girls are watching my example. They are so proud of me for my strength, grace and fortitude through all this. Which is crazy because I felt like such a failure and some days struggled to even shower. But in the middle of all this chaos I've sold our homes, gone back to school (finishing my degree and graduating in May), have made career goals and life goals, single parenting, coaching volleyball, got a job, focusing on my well-being and health (have lost 60lbs)...it's been a crazy 6 months. But I'm so much more focused on my kids and myself. And that's huge for me.

 

[Nas]

I think the thing that gave me this final push into NC was he texted complaining about how lonely he is, how hard his life is, money stuff etc. And I was thinking to myself- what a jerk. Your life is crappy, 100%. So bad you wish you would die some days (all his words). And even still- you would prefer that life over a life with me and the kids. WTH!? Even in my darkest days following BD- I never wanted to die. Let alone feel that way on multiple occasions. So screw you, dude. My worth is more than that. I deserve more than that. I want better than that. And not just for me but for my girls. I want someone who chooses us, who values us, who lives to be with us.

 

I think sometimes the two opposing statements I bolded above are the hardest thing to wrap your head around when trying to get your footing.
Yes, a person who is truly severely depressed will come across as though they don't care. It's not personal - anhedonia is not personal. I don't know your husband or if he's truly depressed, but if he is, he's not choosing being miserable over being with his family. The depression takes over completely. He's not "not choosing" you guys. He's just not choosing anything, period, if that makes sense.

BUT, what's also true is you deserve to a life where you are not tied to the choices and behaviors and needs of another. He may be depressed and need help and if so, I truly hope he chooses to get that help. But in the meantime, since you have no control over whether he chooses to do so or not, all you can do is choose to live your life forward, practice self-care and continue to make good memories for yourself and your kids. Which is what you seem to be doing. 
You sound like you're making good, practical choices, and this early on, you really do seem very admirably logical and clear headed.
xx

[KellBell]

A couple of things to note...

My H called one of our oldest D last night and was going on about how I should take all the girls to Rose Bowl to cheer on Utah. We live in NE. So she was confused. But he insisted saying I loved Utah and go Utes. She called and was like What? since we don't really watch any team but the Huskers. I mean we have football on and always root for the underdog because who doesn't love an upset. But weird. Then he texted me a link to buy tickets to the game and said Go Utes!  The only thing I could think of was 1) he's obviously been drinking and 2) I received a full ride to Utah when we were in high school, but I got pregnant with the twins and decided to decline the scholarship and stay closer to home so the parents could help with the babies. Have never looked back or regretted that decision. Not even sure if all the girls know that story. So I wonder...has he really regressed back to 18? Is he thinking I'm loyal to Utah? So weird.

And then this morning he texted me "I think I forgot my brother's birthday. It's tomorrow right? Or is it today?" Ummmm- his brother's birthday is 11/5. He's never forgot it. I didn't answer and he texted  "I don't know where my head is and why I can't remember this." So weird.

I was also thinking about past regression. And if he did regress back to late teens/early 20s...that's strange since we were together. We've together since we were 15 and 16. But on the other hand it does make sense. Maybe he's living out the bachelor dreams he never got to live because we had kids so young. He was ahead of me in school two years. He did go to school in Colorado but only lasted a semester before he failed out and came home. He couldn't cut it on his own. Didn't like it. Maybe now's he's trying again and trying to make it work this time. Not sure.

Anyway...just some thoughts. MLC is definitely a crazy ride.

[Treasur]

It all gets a bit Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?
Imho part of our struggle as LBS is almost like training our brain to accept that two opposing things can be true about the MLCer....that they are an unravelled far from normal mess of a human AND that they are still responsible for their own choices and consequences bc that’s how life works. And how we learn although depressed MLCers of course are running hard to avoid having to do that very thing 

Which is why Nas is probably quite right that he isn’t exactly ‘choosing’ to be as he is AND that you and your kids have the right to live a life which is not driven by his state of mind. Someone else’s unravelling really truly has nothing to do with you other than the extent to which you are collateral damage bc they were your spouse. It feels tremendously personal, of course, but it really isn’t. These little show and tells are a good reminder of that, but I wouldn’t waste a moment trying to figure it out. You can’t make sense if non-sense without feeling a bit nuts 

I was going to respond earlier about your comments about going NC. Unless you have a vanisher....and they seem to be a minority.....it is difficult to be completely NC if you have minor children or indeed before your financial affairs are completely separated after a divorce. Iirc RCR has some good articles about limiting contact though....being Dark or Dim. Others here talk about being ‘Grey Rock’ and there is a useful website called, I think, Out of the Fog which has some good tips for communicating with disordered folks. You did well to not respond to his texts.....what would you say after all, and it’s no longer your wifely job to remember birthdays is it?....but learning a bit more about different ways of handling contact might help you think about how you want to manage your own boundaries moving forward. Bc your youngest is still quite young and you may end up having to communicate as a parent. And bc his crazy is self-evidently not going to magically disappear just bc he ran off to find his new ‘happy’ 

It’s a strange experience, that’s for sure 
But as Nas said, you sound like you are doing pretty well in a weird horrid situation, so well done you!

[Nas]

I think regression does play some role early on, but I would caution against thinking too much about it.
I'll share this with you: before and around BD, my former husband played a song called "Bent to Fly" over and over and over and over. The lyrics are about a young man leaving home.
He ranted endlessly about how he had wanted to go away to college and his mother made him go to a college within a few hours driving distance of his childhood home. And he vacillated between being over the top angry about that (decades later) and commenting that it turned out to be good because his father died just after he graduated from college and he had all those years closer to home where he saw his dad more. There was a thought process going on there that I couldn't have had any real idea about and still don't.

His affair partner is a woman he went to high school with - not an ex-girlfriend, just someone a grade below him who shared friends in common and he knew all through school.
The day he left me (after being an emotionally abusive live in for way too long) he was humming "Bent to Fly" the entire time he packed his things. He had a brief stint of moving home to his childhood bedroom before quitting his job and moving over 1000 miles away with his affair partner. For several months at first, he lived in a tiny apartment on a college campus, across the street from a fraternity house - it was the college he'd wanted to go to but didn't because his mother didn't want him to. It's the college his girlfriend (OW) did go to.

So in early days I watched him doing a complete rewrite of his life, erasing me, choosing instead someone he knew before me, making the choices he wished he'd made before he met me. It absolutely crushed me in ways I won't describe because I don't want to remember those feelings, honestly. But I'm sharing with you to say I understand, and that no matter what, it's not about you. He was with you back when he was young and he may look like he's trying to take a "do over" but it's not a reflection on you or the life you had with him - it's a purely pathologically self-absorbed tunnel he's in where he can only see himself.  It took a while for me to see that it wasn't about me and his actions weren't at all normal (my therapist at the time said it sounded like a complete breakdown - it's normal for people to have regrets from time to time, but this is something more akin to psychosis).

[UrsaMajor]

He's off in the fog

[KellBell]

journaling

I get that the MLCer is selfish and preoccupied with their own life right now...but holy buckets! How do you just NOT care about your kids? Today our youngest fell at school and broke her wrist. After getting her taken care of and home and resting- I texted an FYI text to my H on behalf of our D. She wanted him to know. He hasn't texted her back. Texted me saying "That sucks. What does that mean for volleyball?"

Uh what!? Why don't you call your kid and talk to her? See how she is? Ask her?

Seriously...his crappy behaviors make detaching so much easier. Like what a jerk!

ughhhh. I just can't even wrap my head around how self absorbed you have to be to NOT call or check in on your child. It's so crazy

[UrsaMajor]

And who gives a flying farfinagle about Volleyball in comparison to a broken wrist?

[MadLuv]

I’m so sorry for your D he didn’t do what a normal thinking / caring parent would do. I think we can absorb a lot, but when it affects the kids it’s a whole different story.

[KellBell]

Idk- she is on a special club volleyball team, but wouldn't your first concern be your daughter? How is she doing? Is she in pain? Can I talk to her? etc

Just mind boggling how he still hasn't reached out now going on 24 hours later. Like how lost in the fog are you, dude?

[KellBell]

I had a turning moment this weekend. H texted about something and then mentioned the kids. We texted a bit. And during the exchange (whether it's from the passage of time, the fact i'm not in shock anymore or the amount of MLC research) I could pick out typical replay' excuses. And with each one- I stayed calm and cool. Mostly just shaking my head and texting back "I'm sorry you see it that way."

So many contradictory statements and reasoning that were insane. I stopped the conversation by just saying "I hope with time you have a change of heart. But for now I think space apart is the best thing."

I'm still hurt over what he did to me and the kids. But this conversation helped me see that it really has nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with our relationship. And nothing to do with our kids. He is 'lost'. He has a lot to figure out. And until he quits blaming me and the kids...he'll just continue to be lost. And the person he is now- is not someone I want to be with. I also feel better about the D and feeling like it was the right thing to do in our situation. My H will never feel completely 'free' to live this life he wants away from us unless he is totally free. There would have always been resentment and bitterness. And I also know that if he entered into a relationship while we were legally together...it's something I could never forgive. I love him. I want him home so we can build something better. I guess you could say I'm banking or hoping he eventually comes to and comes back to us. I don't know. But in our situation and for our kids it seems like this is best. If its meant to be- we will find each other again. I'm still standing. And it feels like a huge gamble. I'll just continue supporting from afar and will be here when or if he reaches out. I also know that I will be ok if he never comes to. I've learned so much in these last months and can only assume I will continue to get stronger and learn more.

[UrsaMajor]

You are 100% correct - his crisis has nothing to do with you, your kids, or your relationship...

Taking care of yourself and your kids is the highest priority - if and when he chooses to do the work he needs to do in order to come out of his crisis, then you can decide if the version of H that reappears is someone you really want to have a relationship with or not...

[KellBell]

I know rewriting history is text book MLC behavior, but do they know they are doing it? Are they doing it on purpose so the narrative fits their actions or do they really think that's how it was? And if it's really how they think it was...if/when they come out of the fog, do they realize how it all really was?

Also do MLCers have 'time' issues or easily forget things? Because my H didn't believe me when I said it's been 3 months since the girls have seen you- like he was absolutely shocked. He said "no way! I just saw them last month." And then I texted him some photos a few months ago of the girls after they had their holiday photos taken in October. I framed a few and sent them to him for his office last week. He was thrilled to get them and asked if they were updated photos. When were they taken etc. I'm thinking...ummmm I sent these to you months ago? You've seen them before.

just some things I've been thinking about. I try not to get too focused on the MLC stuff, but some of it is just so crazy. The apathy thing is really throwing me and our youngest D. He really could seem to care less that she broke her wrist, or that we had tornados touching down today. Just bizarre.

[9393roo]

Hi Kelly,

Thought I would drop in and try to answer some of these questions based on my own personal experience.  I'm reconnecting with my H and we are dealing with this very thing.  Trying to go back and sort out what really happened compared to what he "thought" that happened.  It is a very difficult and slow process for him as he did rewrite history, did major gas lighting and projecting.  He tried very hard to keep his MLC compartmentalized until he couldn't.  He is learning how to open the compartments and look at them with a therapist.  We talk a lot now about how I experienced things.  He is mortified that he did the things he did but he is slowly starting to accept and take responsibility for them.  It is mind boggling.

I know rewriting history is text book MLC behavior, but do they know they are doing it?

Yes and no.  My H thought he was getting away with so much but did not realize how much we could see right through him.  In his mind he was getting away with living two different lives.  He did not realize I started to see past his lies. 

Are they doing it on purpose so the narrative fits their actions or do they really think that's how it was?

In his mind I believe he really thought how it was.  I think he convinced himself that the life he was living was ok and he wasn't really hurting anyone. 

And if it's really how they think it was...if/when they come out of the fog, do they realize how it all really was?]

This is his very hard reality right now.  He is doing this slowly.  It is very painful for him to really open his eyes to the damage he caused so many, but especially me.   He often shuts down after we talk about it because it is so hard.  I remind him that I'm still here but he has to face the reality of things. Sometimes he expresses such complete remorse and others he shuts down while he processes things.  He is slowly moving forward in this area.  It is hard. 

Also do MLCers have 'time' issues or easily forget things?

Very much so.  I thought my H had a brain tumor.  He has always had an amazing memory.  (His siblings used to tease him about remembering nursing on his mom!)  It went completely during the height of MLC.  Still has trouble with things but not to the extent he used to.  He owns his own company and has incredible stress.  He is becoming known for forgetting things which is very hard for him.  I hope he will be able to regain it. 

Lack of empathy was shocking to me as well.  My H was always very loving and a little bit emotional.  He basically turned into a robot, when he shuts down I see this in small ways.  He is starting to show emotions again and it is a hard thing for me to get used to after years of not showing anything and trying to keep it all in. 

I try not to get too focused on the MLC stuff, but some of it is just so crazy.

Yes it is.  So completely crazy and very difficult to wrap your head around most days.   Your best bet is to continue with detachment, which you seem to be doing well.  My heart breaks for your kids.  3 of my 4 were out of the house when MLC hit.  I'm sure your kids want to know the reason for all of this, it's very hard not to be able to explain it. 

Hugs to you and your kids. 

[KellBell]

just another shaking my head moment...

MLC husband texted me last Thursday asking if our ten year old daughter would be expecting a Christmas gift from him. I didn't text him back but I was thinking- Ummmm...yes. She's ten and I'm thinking she is definitely assuming her dad will get her something.

Since I didn't respond, he then texted one of our 23 year old daughters. She said "Of course she is assuming her dad will remember her on Christmas since you aren't planning on physically being here." He then asked her if she would want anything. She said "No I don't. You told us in July that you didn't want to be a dad anymore. And then you act like everything is fine. It's not."

He then said "I think you, your sisters and mom are taking that part wrong. What I meant was that I didn't want to be involved all the time and be hands on and have to do stuff."

She had to end the call because she was in such utter shock she didn't know what to say.

Needless to say, we are still just shaking our heads. It's one thing to think it, but to actually say it out loud...to your kid! smh

[MadLuv]

Oh my, that is just gut wrenching as his kids, but also as a mother. You feel that rejection and pain two-fold. My XH is in contact with his kids. Bought then xmas gifts, but has not physically or emotionally been a presence for the past year on a personal level. It’s just so hard to imagine what can make them just shut down that connection with their kids.

I know for my XH it is just painful for him to be around any of us. He sees all his failures and he knows that those closest he can’t fake his depression. We know him to well. I hope that is the case with your kids father and he can find a better way to explain this to your children so this doesn’t last a lifetime in their hearts. I know I explain alot to my adult kids. I do at times cover for him and make excuses. Not for him. Definitely not for me ( as they dont have as much empathy for what I am going through ) but for them. I hope he will come out of this and I want the least damage to their hearts.

I’m so sorry. It’s gut wrenching. They just can't see beyond themselves. Honestly, they cant understand their own feelings so not a surprise that he is relaying things maybe how he means. My XH is always saying” I shouldn’t talk, because what I mean and what I say dont ever come out right”

[KellBell]

He has only been back to visit the girls once since he left in July and that was in September for a quick lunch. I get what you're saying about not wanting to see them or be around them because there is a certain amount of shame and guilt I'm sure he's feeling somewhere inside. He doesn't FaceTime or call them either. Everything is in text. So maybe a little there as well.

I noticed his depression prior to BD. But he wasn't angry towards me. It was towards everyone and everything else. And we were still intimate up until a week before he left. We talked and went on dates. I could see he was struggling with depression and tried to talk to him but at the same time space to talk about it on his own terms. In fact he told me he wanted a divorce and he was leaving and then told me he still loves me. I know its MLC but also depression. He uses words like lost, unhappy and exhausted. And also phrases like how he's on a mission to find appreciation and purpose.

Anyway- it's just a lot of head shaking and emotions. Especially for the girls. My youngest wrote a letter to Santa asking for a new and improved dad because "if you're really Santa then you can see everything that has happened and know why I'm asking for this."

[MadLuv]

So heart wrenching. Mine only texts and saw then once in the last  year and that was my daughters wedding. I get it. There is just no understanding it. I’m sorry. Ughhh

[Nas]

I can't imagine being any age (but my God, at just 10 years old  ) and having a parent say "I don't want to be a parent anymore." I'm sorry, K. They just say the most vile things and don't seem to have any grasp at all of the way the things they say out loud will impact other people. It's a level of self-absorbed insanity most people can't wrap their heads around.
Wishing you and your kids a nice holiday together. ((hugs))

[KellBell]

The girls and I were coming back from my hometown today and a country version of this song came on the radio. i was listening to the words thinking how applicable it could be to my MLC spouse. It's the holidays and as much as I would like to fully detach and stay strong...I miss him.

strange how much your state of mind plays into how you perceive a song. Especially one I've heard a 100 times and never thought of it like this before.

Here are the lyrics:

Do you wanna build a snowman?
C'mon let's go outside and play
I never see you anymore
Come out the door
It's like you've gone away

We used to be best buddies
And now we're not
I wish you would tell me why

Do you wanna build a snowman?
It doesn't have to be a snowman
Go away, Anna
Okay. Bye.

Do you wanna build a snowman?
Or ride our bikes around the halls?
I think some company is overdue
I've started talking to the pictures on the wall.

It gets a little lonely
All these empty rooms
Just watching the hours tick by

Elsa?
Please I know you're in there
People are asking where you've been
They say, "Have courage", and I'm trying to
I'm right out here for you, just let me in

We only have each other
It's just you and me
What are we gonna do?
Do you wanna build a snowman?

Anyway, it's a silly Disney song but a few words could easily be replaced and it would fit so well. This first Christmas is definitely a hard one.

[Rollercoasterider]

Well, Elsa's powers are a metaphor for depression. You know he's in there.

Have courage.

[Nas]

I get what you mean about songs taking on different meaning depending on where you're at. Music is kind of amazing that way.
Merry Christmas, K.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

as much as I would like to fully detach and stay strong...I miss him.

It's been over a decade since bomb drop and yes, I still miss her. It's a different miss, maybe a miss of opportunity or what if's. Yet, I miss the old person, not the new person. It easy for me to detach from the new person, but I don't think I will ever truly detach from the old one.

Just remember, his is not a rejection of you and the kids; it is a complete rejection of himself.

MLC husband texted me last Thursday asking if our ten year old daughter would be expecting a Christmas gift from him. I didn't text him back but I was thinking- Ummmm...yes. She's ten and I'm thinking she is definitely assuming her dad will get her something.

He hasn't lost his mind and I don't think he was an idiot in the past nor now in the "new" life. So why ask this question? I don't think he was being mean or cold. He just doesn't know what to do. A lot of possibilities, maybe he feels a gift would be inappropriate at this time. A slap in the face after all he has done. He may not even have an idea of what to give. As you have stated, he is depressed and depression impairs cognitive abilities- memory and the ability to contemplate, plan and act.

My advice is to focus on your ten year old and let her know that she is still loved deeply by you. The gift isn't necessary-your affirmation of her is the most important thing. She faces an uncertain world and right now the most important thing you can do is be stable.

Johnny B wrote that he could face an uncertain world as long as he had the stability of his marriage. Your family can survive your H's crisis as long as you can be stable and be strong for them.

Elsa's powers are a metaphor for depression. You know he's in there.

Well, Your power is the power of love and I know you are still here.

((((Ready))))

[KellBell]

Ready- thank you for reminding me that he may just not know. He only talks to our youngest D and I via text...so inflection and sentiment is hard to interpret with just words on a screen. I needed to be reminded that even though to me it sounds absurd, that I need to be more open and understanding. So thank you for that.

I think we had a good talk (well text conversation) Christmas night about the importance of him being more involved in our kids' lives especially the youngest. I think he understood what I was saying and how my focus is really on getting the kids through this. He already knows I love him and am here to help if he needs it.

We'll see what happens next I guess.

[KellBell]

we are deep in the anger and blame part of replay and it just sucks. His  opinion of me just keeps sinking lower and lower and I'm literally not doing anything. It's so frustrating. He's even projecting his insecurities onto me. Like yesterday he was talking to one of the girls and he asked if I was neglecting our youngest. I mean, what!? Neglecting? Who is neglecting who? I was so hurt...I literally live for my kids, especially our youngest right now who is going through so much upheaval.

He's short with me and snarky and just a jerk. I hate it. He blames me for everything. He's upset that the girls haven't gotten their Christmas gifts yet. He said he would be down this weekend, but two of the four girls are going to be out of town. So then he wanted to come the next weekend, but that's my bday weekend and the girls have stuff planned. Got frustrated when I suggested 22nd or 23rd. Complaining that he "should send the gifts because it just keeps getting later and later." All of this could have been avoided had he 1) asked for custody or some sort of visitation plan AND 2) planned the visit instead of just 'hey I'm coming' three days in advance with 4 kids (3 of which are adults with their own schedules).

I had to text him tonight about one of the girls and he used the phrase "You're pushing me about D..." It was one text and I was polite in my request with please and thank you. Like God forbid I ask you to be a dad and help. It's like he can't handle the pressure of the being a dad or the responsibilities that come with it. That word "pushing"...as if the ask was forcing him or pressuring him. So crazy.

I think I'm to the point of just total disconnect. Our divorce will be final as soon as I sign the paper...I'm not in a hurry and he hasn't asked. But after this week, I kind of feel like...why not just sign? He thinks so lowly of me and we couldn't be further apart. Just tired. Those of you years into this are freaking amazing.

I was talking to my therapist about FOO issues with my H. He is very insecure and has said multiple times since BD that he wants to be appreciated and valued (mostly by his dad and older only brother). His older brother was the golden child, a genius and exceptional in every way. My H wasn't. His parents blatantly cherished their first born and treated my H like he was less than his whole life even into adulthood. My H is now super focused on his dad...and that relationship. He has somehow made him up in his head as this amazing dad, when in reality all they talk about it work (the family business). Can't hold a conversation about anything outside work. His dad and new wife had a huge fight with older brother and my H sees this as an opportunity to come in and show his worth. The thing is...his dad and brother will never see him or praise him or appreciate him. They just won't...no matter what he does. So it's all pointless. And what's really pointless is that he is repeating the cycle with our kids. They work hard and just want him to acknowledge their hard work and worth. And he just excuses it away or disregards it and instead points out the flaws.

this whole thing sucks.

[HeavenlyFocus]

He's short with me and snarky and just a jerk. I hate it. He blames me for everything.

Hi Kelly,   I have dealt with the same thing for 18 months and am at a point where I am done with the gaslighting.   For me, at the least the ending of our relationship will help to stop the pain inside of me when my XW starts to blame me for ridiculous things.   I don't have to listen anymore.

this whole thing sucks.

Yes it does.  A couple of years ago I wouldn't imagined going through this.   My XW has destroyed not only our marriage but other relationships.   All I can do is move forward and protect my kids.   It does get easier in time and I focus on my own healing and life.   You are doing a great job supporting your kids so keep moving forward with your life and let your H be which is so hard to do.

HF

[FaithWalker]

Hang in there Kelly.  The anger and blame game is the worst.

Hopefully you can detach from that as much as possible.  At least you are recognizing it for what it is.

[KellBell]

Lastnight he managed to turn my always supporting and believing him into a BAD thing. Like how dare I be like that with him. (insert biggest eye roll ever)

He also said he's a loser and he's just going to own it. ok, dear.

sucks...but whatever.

A new worry I have is that I'm all for detaching. Because he's a jerk right now. But being exposed to it (even in little bits) and how it makes me feel, seeing the damage to my kids and just the passage of time. I'm afraid of the very real possibility that I will not only detach but completely cut and run. Because I don't want that in my life. And I feel like we'll get to a point where forgiveness is unattainable. IDK...weird fear. But as I get more and more ok with being without him...I see the that it's quite possible I may never want him back.

Anyway...weird feelings when you've been on the rollercoaster of LBS emotions. Just six months ago I was gutted and lost. And now I'm at meh. I feel like I'm headed towards goodbye.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I want to clarify the difference between detaching and indifference. When you detach from the MLCer, you still care, but you are open to many possible outcomes. You and your h may get back together, you may not get back together, but you are open to either situation and know that you will be okay either way. Indifference evolves as you see your only option as  reconciliation, but as time passes- you don't feel that it is going to happen and you throw in the towel.

Lastnight he managed to turn my always supporting and believing him into a BAD thing. Like how dare I be like that with him. (insert biggest eye roll ever)

When you are detached from the situation, you can treat his words and actions like a teenager. Mine told me I was the worst person ever. I told her, "Thanks for the award, but you still can't take the car."

Your H is trying to pull you into his misery and emptiness. Detaching is when you don't let him pull you emotionally into his chaos. Because in the end, this is not about you. He made his choices and now he lives with the consequences.

Anyway...weird feelings when you've been on the rollercoaster of LBS emotions. Just six months ago I was gutted and lost. And now I'm at meh. I feel like I'm headed towards goodbye.

This may very well be. This isn't about emotions; it is about you regaining your own sense of control. That you have power of choice as well and you can choose not to take him back. I read a great comment from Sachet3 that since BD she has changed for the better and may not want to have the new version of her MLCer in her life. As you grow and heal, then you can make decisions regarding your life and the direction you want to go.

Have an amazing weekend,

((((Ready))))

[KellBell]

I'm only 6 months into this and still learning. I just feel like I'm moving past "this". We are divorcing so I feel like I am detaching. Maybe we come back together and maybe we don't. He has a lot to figure out for any forward movement. So I'm just going to continue working on me and taking care of the kiddos. It's hard and a lot to process, but I feel like I'm coping pretty well. At least that's what I hear from family and friends. Doesn't make it hurt any less, though

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

We are divorcing so I feel like I am detaching.

Often we write to the LBSer that the divorce is just a piece of paper. Since he has left in the past and returned, he may see the divorce decree as just a piece of paper and if his new life fails, just pack my bags and head home. I don't know your h, but it seems he has had an inner emptiness that has been present for a long time. My question to you is: how did you cope with the first separation? Here you are at a young age with twins and he runs away. That must have been just as traumatic if not more than this episode.

You have posted he has no friends, low self-esteem, easily quits, and has a difficult time communicating- but I also see that he does manage his business world well. One thing I have noted about people that have trouble making human connections is that they then become consumed by getting things. Things are easy and the remarkable aspect is that you can always get new things.

We have upgraded houses about every 5 years in our marriage. This last time (5 years ago) we built a beautiful 6,000sqf 'forever dream home'.

 Is this his drive? How do you top a "forever dream home"? Maybe it means "start a new life"?  As I have stated, there is an emptiness in him and he is used to getting everything he wants- what is his final destination? We all have drive and needs. The hard part is finding the right equilibrium. We have to push ourselves to continue or else we just quit. But if we push ourselves to far, it establishes a mania that keeps up from ever being content. Another question: whose idea was it to move into the new home? Yours, his, ours? Also is he the "I want a new home" and you made it happen?  Then the "we" built is more he gave the command and "I" made it happen.

Not sure...like I want to because these were annual things that he took part in, but also I don't want him to feel anymore shame or regret.

thoughts?

I got this about sending him photos of the kids. In his new mindset, he may simply justify that the kids and you are doing just fine and maybe even better without him. But, I am not a mind reader and trying to read a MLCer's mind is like trying to predict the flight path of a gnat.

So I'm just going to continue working on me and taking care of the kiddos. It's hard and a lot to process, but I feel like I'm coping pretty well. At least that's what I hear from family and friends. Doesn't make it hurt any less, though

You've already written the prescription that will help you recover from your trauma. He has his work to do, but so do you. From what I have read, you have taken the necessary steps to protect you and your family. You have continued to support the kids who need you being present more than ever.

It does hurt a  lot and trust me, I and everyone else on the forum understand that feeling. Please take the time and be good to yourself. Often we get side tracked into taking care of everyone but ourselves.

Enjoy your day,

((((Ready))))

[KellBell]

Ready- thanks for your response.

The first time we separated it was because he felt like he didn't have a chance to be a young single guy in his early 20s sans a life of responsibility and kids. After nine months of living the bachelor life, he decided he wasn't missing all that much. Apologized and promised to put the kids and I first. And he did...for the next 20 years.

I've always known there has been a void in him. It's from his family life growing up and how he was raised. He just wants to make his dad proud (both his parents doted on his brother) and for his older brother to see him as an equal and not the stupid little brother that always messes things up. They work and run the family business together - so we were with his family quite a bit. And in every conversation I ever heard between them or was a part of - the brother would talk down and condescend him. Passive aggressively most times, but still felt. They are 50/50 partners now after buying out their dad...and I can only imagine how that feels for him. Every day trying to work and succeed in that environment.

It became really bad about two years ago when his brother took over his day to day responsibilities and told him to find something else to do at work...that's the kind of stuff he deals with. I wish we could just leave the family business and find something else, but we can't and it's so hard for him. I get it and we've talked for years about it. There's just no way out. So after getting his responsibilities taken- he decided to work from home. Because he was lost. Not really sure what to do at work to keep busy and still feel like he was contributing. And then covid and it seems like it all just spiraled. Never in these past two years did I feel the problem was between us. Our girls  and I could see him slowly slipping away into a deep depression during this time. He would get snippy with the girls and work stuff, but in the evenings when it was just us...we talked and dated and were intimate. He didn't know why he was feeling this way and (in hindsight) hearing the honest answers (that it was work and his family) from  me probably weren't helpful and what he wanted hear. Especially since he feels like it's something that can't be fixed and/or abandoned.

I can honestly say- I never felt our relationship was the issue. And as with MLC, it's not about us. I know that he has issues to figure out. That things got so muddled and depressing and he lost sight of who he was. When work is such a huge part of your life and it starts to suck and it's a family business and you are working from home....it's easy to see how he began to think his whole life was sucking. He believes he can't leave the family business, but he can leave us and maybe just maybe things will get better. Like a last ditch effort to save to yourself when you feel you are drowning.

So now he's hyperfocused on work and growing sales at one of the branches so he can prove himself to his dad and brother. He's a great salesman and has great ideas on how to improve sales. I'm just concerned because he's never had to work for anything...like ever. Everything was handed to him and it was really a disservice on his parents part. By doing so they didn't allow him to learn: follow-through, hard work, grit or gumption.  He dropped out of college, never had to interview for a job,, or have a position assessment or review. Has really just coasted through so much of his adult life- and I know I have blame in there as well. So although PROVING himself sounds grand and like the obvious answer to fix this...I don't think he will be able to put in the work and time required to do so. Because when has he ever had to? Not only that, but realistically he could cure cancer and still never receive praise from his brother. Because his brother is just that big of an as$.

So I know this journey is his. It started long before he met me. I know that for a time I helped him and provided respite from his inner turmoil. But in the end, he needs to save himself. And no matter how hard I tried or if I could have been the perfect wife- I now know it never would have been enough. It doesn't matter that I see his worth. Or that his kids see his worth. HE needs to see it. And until that happens and that inner emptiness is filled...he's just keep searching. It just kills me that the answer is in him. Not a place or a person. It's him...if he would just do the work.

Anyway. I've done a lot of growing and learning in these past 6 months. And even though my self confidence and trust has been shaken to the core, I'm well on my way to healing and knowing that the same advice goes for me. And no person, place or thing is going to help me heal and move forward. I have to do the work and focus on me.

[KellBell]

Just journaling-

Started a new job last week - after having been a stay at home mom for last 20 years. It's at a local non-profit helping low income individuals and families learn financial literacy. Trainings and coaching on how to improve credit scores, make and stick to budgets and even classes on cooking - which helps them feel more comfortable buying ingredients and preparing food (which is typically less expensive and definitely more healthy) rather than buying processed pre-made food.  It's such rewarding work- I'm super excited!

 And I've also started classes this week to finish up my Bachelors degrees. I only have 4 credits left to get my BS in Business Administration and 3 credits left to get my BA in Communications. Both will be finished up this semester and I'll graduate in May...took the long road but finally getting there.

Coaching youngest D volleyball team and getting to the gym at least 3 times a week...endorphins have been my friend savior lately!

Nothing to really report on H...just a few little things.

I texted him last week because one of our daughters (who works for the family business) is having a hard time at work and wanted some parental advice and support. She doesn't feel like she can go to her dad...which is understandable but also kind of sucky because he would have more answers since he is both her dad and at the company. I just quickly texted him that D would appreciate some fatherly support and that she's having a rough time with work. In his response back he said something to the effect of 'pushing' him to help her. I thought it was an odd choice of words. It was a simple polite ask to something that should be second nature. But I sense that fatherly duties are just putting more pressure on him than he can deal with at the moment.

In another text exchange about plans for him to visit the girls, he said he was a loser. His favorite word choice at the moment. Probably because he does feel that way about himself and also because it's an excuse for him and his actions. Like I've behaved poorly- what can I say, I'm a loser. Anyway- I replied a short response that I don't see him that way. To which he replied "I know you feel that way. I just don't see it. Then you build me up just to tear me down." A couple of things- 1) I'm glad he knows and recognizes how I feel about him or at least on that point. And 2) he's still rewriting things. I've never tore him down. Not even in my darkest moments following BD. I may have wrote some not so nice things in my journal about him, but never in our 25 years together have I ever NOT supported or validated him.

I know I know...don't get drawn into the pity party and quit responding to non-important texts. I get that it's a safety feature for us because of how their responses affect us at the LBS. Like this one. I realized after that though that I could tell him 100 times a day that I love him and support him and want to help him...but it doesn't matter. It won't make a difference. I know how I feel. I know how the marriage was and I know how our relationship was. Right now he doesn't. But I know somewhere deep inside his confusion, he knows and remembers. I hope one day he can find his way through and realize it. Until then I will keep on living, growing, healing and focusing on me and the girls.

[Nas]

Thanks for the update, Kelly. The job sounds truly, truly amazing!

[MadLuv]

Kelly, my kids gripe” about work all the time to me. A company I worked for 25 years and now XH is over them ( with many manager levels in between ) They should be going to XH. It can be frustrating. What I have learned ( after many bricks to the head) is to not ask him to do ANYTHING!!  I also found me tryjng to interject only saved him from disgrace and gave me to empathy. They didn't see me working behind the scenes with XH to keep him involved.

Let him twist in the wind. The fact that they don’t seem to care about their own children shows without any doubt it is all about them. People can fall in love with someone else, but you should never fall put of love and care for your own children.

[KellBell]

Torn- exactly what I was thinking. It's so hard when your kids are hurting or need help and you see the logical solution but can't use it because he's not an option at the moment.

and another head scratcher. So our youngest has RAD- basically weak lungs but not quite asthma. Even the smallest cold knocks her out for two to three weeks and when her allergies flare up it almost always develops into a sinus infection or worse. I've had her vaccinated, but because of that issue the other girls and I are a little more diligent on practicing safe covid measures. H is supposed to be coming for a visit next weekend. Today he sent a text wanting clarification on somethings for the visit. I told him I would have all of the girls home test prior to seeing him and would have an extra test for him as well. And he texts back that he's not worried about getting it. Works all day every day with people and no one wears a mask. It's just like a cold. blah blah.

Not going to lie- kind of shocked me. This coming from the guy that basically built us a bunker and practically forced us all to live in a bubble. AND he has underlying health issues that would would probably make his reaction to the Covid virus a bit worse than for a healthy adult. AND what about his daughter?

Sometimes I just can't even process his thought process. Not going to waste my time trying either. good grief.

But I'm still going to insist he takes a rapid home test just to be sure. I'm healthy and I sure as heck don't want it!

[MadLuv]

Oh wow, yes…that would freak me out as well. With a child with a compromised health issue I would definitely have him take it. What if he refuses?

[Thunder]

Hi Kelly,

I sure understand your concern, for your children and yourself.
Covis is nothing to play around with.

Sounds like a typical MLCer, they only think of themselves.  Yes I would insist on him taking the test before he is allowed in.   

Don't be afraid to say, no test, no seeing the kids.  I have to protect them and myself.

Good luck getting an MLCer to listen and comprehend.  I hope he does.

[KellBell]

Test is here waiting for him so we'll see. I wish there was a thread for LBS having to navigate this with minor children. In the sense that as much as I want space from him and the older girls and I wish we could just cut off all communication...I can't because of my youngest D. She mostly communicates with him on her own which is nice. But holy buckets- his third visit in almost 7 months (4 months since his last one which lasted 3 hours) is this weekend. And he goes from acting like a scared hesitant unsure first time dad- asking questions, double checking plans and making sure everything is ok TO pissy and angry and annoyed because one of our older D doesn't really care to see him at all and the other two older ones are just meeting him one night for dinner. I get that this jekyl and hyde is par for the course so it doesn't really bother me. But I have also noticed that when I try to help him see "their side" in our text exchanges that even though he doesn't respond...I've noticed him taking my recommendations. So this time I let him know that the girls are hurt. They are still processing that you left them. And yes you left me, but I'm able to someday when I'm ready find another H/partner. They can't find another dad. So this leaving feels rather permanent to them. I just asked him to be patient and see that they are hurting. And healing will take time and communication.

We'll see how well that goes. Hopes are not all that high, but fingers crossed.

As far as how I feel towards my husband. I think I'm in a good place. I think that I will sign off on the D papers. I know in my heart that he needs to do this to figure out what will make him happy and what was making him unhappy. And I don't want to hinder that process.  It's not something that anyone can tell him or convince him of. He has to figure it out. Which means 100% on his terms. I want him to want us to work. And come back intentionally not as a fallback. I'm still standing and ready to be here if and when he's ready. I can't promise him forever, but I will fight for us as long as I can. And continue to be here for him even after I've moved on. I will always love him and want a friendship. My heart is mending and I'm starting to become more comfortable with the idea that I'll be ok if this doesn't work out. Regardless, I want him to be better and whole again. For my kids...they deserve a father that is better than he is now. And if that growth is the only thing to come out of this MLC (his wanting and trying to be a better dad) then I'll take it.

Anyway- it's kind of amazing how the weight has lifted when you can see their MLC for what it is. You stop questioning everything (is it MLC or isn't it). And you know that the only given is you and how you grow and react. And how you provide and support the kids. I still think about him...but mostly I pity him. Not in a rude angry way. Just genuinely pity him. I can't imagine how it would feel not being able to talk to your kids. Not being able because you're not capable. He texted me that he just doesn't know how to and that he's lost on what to do. Like that has to seriously suck and he's going to have to figure it out. I'll give him little bits of advice but for the most part it's his learning curve. But at least he admitted it...admission is the first step after all. 

We are only 7 months post BD so we have a ways to go on our respective journeys before I can think about 'us' again. And him too. I feel like the D will ease the pressure off of both of us. For him- he'll get what he thinks he wants and can continue living the carefree life of replay. Really figuring things out or sinking deeper. And I can grow and heal without the stress and anxiety that comes with being married to such a huge question mark. I know it's not what's recommended- I should make him do the divorce. But I need to heal too if I'm going to be able to be the best version of myself for my kids. No decision or reaction for the LBS is an easy one. And we all are just doing what's best for our situation.

[UrsaMajor]

The description of your state of mind and your future planning is a Gold-Star version of what is often referred to here as "Dropping the Rope."

This means that the connection that the Mid-Lifer has tried to hold on to, the connection to the anchor that allows them to go willy-nilly off on ther fun-seeking journey, is no longer there. They no longer have the "safe Haven" to rely on. They are truly and utterly on their own adn have to deal with the consequences of their actions. There is no one more to blame or to point fingers at or to dump on.

At 7 months post-BD, I am not sure that many of us were as far along as you are. I know I sure wasn't.... and this is NOT a sprint to the finish. It is often (at least for the Mid-Lifer) an untra-marathon slog through the mud.

I am also one with underage kids and my xW is caught up in the Conspiracy Theory that COVID is "just a flu" and the vaccine is not proven so I can sympathize. My S14 wants to be vaccinated but mom won't allow it and D11 has anxiety that she is going to get Corona from her classmates (her teacher is out this week due to having it despite being 3x jabbed and it has been popping up in her class all around)

UM

[KellBell]

UM- thanks for your response.

 I totally get it! I'm just at the point where I can't imagine living in limbo attached to someone who is so lost and doesn't even vaguely resemble the partner I once loved so fiercely. I'm trying to see the situation for what it is.And find a way to heal and learn that works for me. I have been such an emotional mess these past months (shock, devastation, confusion- so overwhelming). And I can see how that is affecting my children, in my role as their caretaker and my role as an example to them. I would much rather exude compassion and strength at this point. And show them you can heal, but to be patient and kind to yourself in the process.

 I don't know what the next 3 or 5 or 7 years will bring. I just know I want to give him the best space and setting for healing that I can give. It's up to him to decided what to do with this time.

I feel like my skills of being a 'fix it' type of person have greatly helped me process all of this. Early on I decided to shift my 'fix it' energy from him and his issues TO me and my future. And that is a crucial distinction I think a lot of us LBS should make. It sounds like a lot of us were the backbone of the family, the get-it-done type that carried the load. That is also such a blessing right now-because we ARE capable of doing this. It's not easy and it's definitely painful, but we can approach this like other tasks in our marriage and carry the proverbial load of MLC fall out (while also taking time to process). We've got the skills to get through this. We are capable and strong and will all make it through as better versions of ourselves.

[5hilmerton]

Well stated K4510,
the Engineer and Mother in me still wants to (over) analyze and fix.  The shift in me clearly focuses on myself and immediate family.  I do occasionally slip off my Journey path, but is now much easier to get up, dust off my knees and move forward.

Wishing you the very best on your Journey,
5hil

[KellBell]

Just journaling-

I'm slowly getting back into listening to the radio and sxm. I've been off for nearly 6 months because so many songs triggered such intense emotions. Music can be crazy strong like that. Anyway, I heard this Lee Brice song a month or so ago, but today I finally made an effort to listen to the actual words. And I can relate. I feel this way with my H and the memories I have of him and us. We've been together since I was 15 and the memories are countless. Any they are pure and lovely and I don't ever want to forget that wonder and love that I once had with him. Because it was beautiful and blessed us with amazing girls. And so I've delicately packed away those memories and protected them from being replaced by the person he is now. I don't know this person. But those memories tell our story which is part of my story.  And I feel like sometimes if I focus too much on who he used to be and what we used to have-  I could slip back into that vulnerable weeping mess of a spouse. Especially if I let myself get to close to him and wrapped up in his issues. So for right now I just have the memories stored away and I can't mess with those because I'm just not strong enough to process how far we've drifted from who we were in those memories.  I hope to one day look back and just be thankful for the years we had and the memories we made and leave it at that...because they were pretty great!


Her Memory I don't mess with

Red leaves on the river
Footprints in the sand
Cold walk in December
Warming up your hands

Sundress on the front steps
Sun up by the lake
Blanket down in the backyard
Lying wide awake

That's a memory I don't mess with
The girl I was the best with
The one I was obsessed with
Girl, you just don't get it

I'd fall right back with one slip
Always leave me helpless
Don't hate me, I can't help it
Gotta leave us where we left it
You're a memory I don't mess with

Moonlight on the back seat
Breeze through the wires
Springsteen on the speakers
Girl, I'm on fire

That's stuff I don't think about
'Cause it still kills me now
I still can't dance around

That memory I don't mess with
The girl I was the best with
The one I was obsessed with
Girl, you just don't get it
I'd fall right back with one slip
Always leave me helpless

Don't hate me, I can't help it
Gotta leave us where we left it
You're a memory I don't mess with

It's good running into you like this
But, girl, I'm close as I can get

To a memory I don't mess with
The girl I was the best with
The one I was obsessed with
Girl, you just don't get it

I'd fall right back with one slip
Always leave me helpless
Don't hate me, I can't help it
Gotta leave us where we left it

You're a memory I don't mess with, oh, oh, oh
Mm, mm, mm, yeah

Red leaves on the river
Footprints in the sand
Cold walk in December
Warming up your hands

[xyzcf]

July 2021 after 17 months I was permitted to enter Canada to see my  daughter. Because her condo did not allow any visitors I stayed at a friends’s house. Both she and her husband were really close friends of our in our  20’s . My son in law has never known who his Pre bd fil was. He has only seen the MLC version.

Over wine and a lovely fire pit, my friends started telling stories about Mr. xyzcf. Great memories, great times. Although my daughter is an adult she told me afterwards how important it was for her to hear these stories, how important it was for her husband who had never known the man before his crisis.
So memories are important. They are part of our history and our past and we need to share them with our children.
I am not afraid of the memories. I have stayed in the same house and enjoy a sports car that held many many wonderful times..and yes, music was a huge part of our lives…..so for a time, I had trouble listening to music that would stimulate those intense feelings of loss.
I have a couple of pictures of him and our daughter that are special to me in my bedroom.
The healthier I became, the more the memories became an important part of my history. It really was a beautiful life.
The path forward is to find a way where the memories continue to bring a smile to your face and yet new memories can be formed that unfortunately do not include him.
In the last two years, he has started to contact our daughter more. For many years he remained very distant from her. I have always encouraged their relationship and tried to help her to understand..but because she is an adult, she can see very clearly that he is not the dad she remembers. Your children are younger and that is hard when their dad is not around.
They do not get to dictate how we are going to respond to their crisis. This part is in our control and although sometimes the memories might bring tears, there is also a great deal of joy for what once was.

[KellBell]

Journaling-

my H came back this week Th-today. He came back for work stuff and is 'fitting in' some time with the kids. 

Something I noticed- We can text and talk on the phone (about kid stuff and legal stuff) and we are just fine. Neutral, calm and sometimes shocker! even a laugh or two. But while he was here, the first time back in 4 months, I noticed he can't be in a room with me. Not even in the vicinity. He just seems angry and won't talk to me. It's weird...and hurtful. Weird because we have been talking just fine. Hurtful because what the hell did I do?

I had therapy this morning and brought this up. She said it's a lot of projection on his part. I have changed a lot since he left in July. I've lost almost 75 lbs, I've stayed sane and even thrived in the midst of this transition. I'm finishing up my  degrees, I've moved, sold the the houses, created a happy home for my minor D. I'm serving on two community boards and basically our lives have gone on and in some ways we are better. She said that the anger is a lot of projection because he hasn't changed. He's still 300+lbs. Still an alcoholic. No 'home'. No family. Still unhappy and really nothing has changed for him but his location. So he feels anger, but at himself not me. It's just projected at me bc I represent a big flashing sign that says "Yep- you fu*&ed up." So for any LBSs that feel that anger - a lot of it projection. Nothing you did. And I knew this, but felt validated when she explained it better.

And the other part of anger that she mentioned in a prior session was that he IS angry at me. He's angry because my attributes cause him to feel insecure, jealous and intimidated. He is in crisis. And has been spiraling for months and depression hit almost two years ago. All that time, while he suffered from feelings of inadequacy, guilt and a loss of self...there I was picking up the slack, keeping the household together, taking care of the kids and I did it with strength and grace and so effortlessly. And I had my crap together. So in crept feelings of jealousy and intimidation. Which lead to resentment. And when you can't deal with complex feelings like jealousy, intimidation and resentment because you are so lost and confused - those complex emotions default to anger and blame. Because it's just plain easier. It's easy to just blame someone and then thinking booting them from your life is the answer. Just sucks for them because in time they will realize the easy way wasn't the right way.

Anyway- just a few tidbits I found helpful through therapy and advocate whole heartedly on going! 

[JohnnyBravo]

That was a very helpful post, Kelly. Thank you.

[Nas]

I just want to say that you should be very proud of what you’ve accomplished since only July. Regardless of what’s going on with him, you are doing more than great. ((Hugs))

[MomOfSteel]

I’m new here but I think the bit about projection is spot on.  My MLCer is always angry at me.  My therapist also says it’s because he doesn’t want to feel his own short comings so it’s directed at me.  It’s much easier to blame/be angry with you than actually deal with his own issues.  I barely talk/text/communicate with mine but somehow things are still my fault.   

In my own marriage I now realize my H has always used me to manage his emotions and Over the course of the marriage I have taken on that roll and felt like it was my responsibility.  Getting some space has shown me while I still react and want to fix it or feel badly, I am now able to usually see it for what it is.  I will be so glad when I finally can break the habit all together and not be bothered but recognizing he’s trying to get me to manage his emotions and why I feel bad helps a lot. 

[KellBell]

Journaling-

big weekend for me. I was hoping to use this weekend to gauge where I was at emotionally regarding the divorce and signing the papers. H was in town Thursday through Saturday afternoon. His first weekend back since leaving in July. And soooo much has happened from our perspective. The girls and I have sold our houses and properties and moved into a smaller house temporarily until a larger house comes on the market or we decide to build again in town. Our 18 yo D is now in college and living in an apartment with roommates. I'm back at school and working. I've really focused on self care and exercising which has obvious benefits besides those lovely endorphins. ALL of these things combined, I think through him for a minute. Our lives are moving on. Things have changed. Big changes that he couldn't NOT look at or acknowledge. And a little realization that his life hasn't really changed. He's still not happy and has no home or family or anything to do with our family unit.

Our oldest twin D won't talk to him. Didn't want to see him at all while he was back. I know this hurt him, but I feel he needed to experience it and have just the tiniest piece break through that protective fog they have that shields them from the consequences of their actions. He's still wondering why she could possibly be upset with him. IDK maybe the fact you told her (and the other girls to their faces) that you didn't want to be a dad anymore and then moved out of state the next day? Just a thought. The other twin and D18 went to dinner with him Thursday and Friday night and they seemed to have an ok time. Just small talk. And they both feel that's all it will ever be until he's ready to have an in-depth conversation about his actions and the pain he's caused. So that will be a bit. They also see a sad and depressed man that really can't give anything beyond that right now. It's sad, but they see that.

H took D10 to dinner with the other two Thursday night and overnight Friday into Saturday. He then dropped her off early afternoon Saturday.

Thursday night drop off did not go well. He couldn't talk or see me. Looked upset and anxious the whole three minutes that our interaction lasted. Couldn't get away fast enough. Middle daughter texted me later that evening and said something weird happened. They ran to a grocery store after dinner to grab icecream to take back to twin D apartment. While at the store, there was a display of my favorite candy. H grabbed a box like it was second nature and headed back to the freezer section. While there he told the girls they should give it to me. Then as they were headed to check out, told them to forget it and put it back. Because he was afraid I would get the wrong idea. Now none of this is important except the fact that they do think of you...in the midst of the chaos.

I wondered if the reason he was so stand offish and angry was partly because he feels that if he's cordial or nice to me, that I'll get the wrong idea. So I sent him a quick text letting him know that doing something nice for someone shouldn't have qualifiers or strings attached. And that I would never 'get the wrong idea' from a nice gesture. In fact some day I hope we can get back to 'friendly' for the sake of our kids. I closed with saying anger is too draining and nice is my default personality. So perhaps he shouldn't misinterpret my niceness for anything more than caring and helping us be the best parents we can be.

He didn't respond. Didn't expect him to. But Saturday afternoon, he was able to have a decent conversation about the activities they went out and did. We talked for about 20 min, small talk, but still a huge step from the day before. I wonder if that text helped lessen some pressure he might have been feeling. Especially if he was under the impression that I was desperately clinging and still wanting him back. Maybe lessened the guilt or something? Not sure. But I know I don't want this version of him back. I also won't let this version of him and his crisis impact me and my feelings anymore. I can't be angry or sad or anxious anymore. It's draining and effects my ability to be a good mom. I can't focus on him anymore. And just wanted him to know that. Whether he'll remember it- who knows.

The only other notable thing about their overnight was D10 mentioned that H talked about how he thought I would remarry soon and that he never was. And he asked D if I missed him. A few months ago I would have clung to these and tried to read between the lines and figure out what it all meant. But right now- I'm actually just upset at him. Why would you talk to your 10 year old about future relationships when we aren't divorced yet and especially when we had a talk about the importance of taking our time because of how quick relationships so soon after splitting up can be really detrimental to the kids. So inappropriate. And then to ask her if I miss him? So not ok to put her in the middle. If he wants to know- he should ask me. Not to mention confusing for her. And really confusing for me- because based on his actions Thursday night- why would he care if I missed him or not.

Anyway. I'm just noticing that the more and more I process all of this- the more I see the 'real' him. Not just physically although wow! I was a little taken a back at how crappy he looks. Just sad and depressed. His clothes needed ironed and he didn't look well. But also these behaviors he's exhibiting that are really just an exaggeration of behaviors he already possessed. And it just solidified my stance on the fact I don't much like this version of him and don't want or need it. I still love him and desperately want him to be well again. But he doesn't want to work on it and doesn't want my help. So until then...our paths are different.

So big weekend and I'm feeling more and more ok with signing.

[KellBell]

A little insight. My H told me lastnight that he is numb. He said it feels like his heart is stone. So for its worth...they can't feel (and don't want to because that would be hard to reconcile all they have done.) They don't want to feel the guilt and hurt they are causing. They don't want to feel the repercussions - and I'm not saying they are voluntarily shutting off their emotions. Because I don't think you can do that. What I'm saying is...part of this depression is numbness. They will cling to that numbness as long as possible because they don't want to own the feelings involved with what they've done. Also,  when they can't feel- it's hard to care about consequences. When you don't feel anything towards your spouse...you assume you don't love them. But the numbness isn't just with how they feel towards their spouse, it's a void that is felt across all facets of their life. They don't feel joy, or sadness, or happiness or anything. And when they get the slightest bit of feeling- they get angry and in my husband's case, drink to numb it away again. The really sad part is that someday, feelings will come back. And they will have to face their actions. And for some that is years of guilt, anger and disappointment flooding back. Scary to think about.

Anyway- I hope that helps someone in some what understand a little better.

[MadLuv]

I think that numbness cycles also. I know my XH said he couldn’t feel love for me our my kids at one point. Then He said we were the only ones he loved and then he didn't know how he felt. They are all over the place. I think it goes back to that they know they must love us, but they just cant feel it.

That is where escape and avoid helps ( specially if OW exists) They dont have to face the people they know they should love. It confirms where they are and that has to be so scary. I will never understand however not trying to dig deep in your soul at that point. I told my ex when you cant feel something for your own kids it is the biggest sign you need to address something inside, but you will or you won’t. That is on him.

[5hilmerton]

K4510 it's funny that you post about being numb.  After BD 5/19 my H was walking with our 2 year-old granddaughter.  He reached out for her hand and she pulled away. He said to her "yea i don't love no one either." So is it fog or is it numbness, are they the same?

 5hil

[Imgood]

With numbness, I definitely think depression is involved. That was my experience anyways. Early on after we separated, my H was gung-ho to go on a marriage retreat for a long weekend. After a couple of classes where he wasn’t really engaged, we went back to the room we were staying in and he looks at me and says “I just want to go live alone on a mountain.” Before I could even respond, he said “no, I really do”. Right then and there, it confirmed what I suspected a month earlier, which is, he is depressed. He also used the word numb to describe himself in that room. He said, “I’m just numb”.

[UrsaMajor]

That (the numbness) is why the AD is so tempting - they actually feel something - that "high" of limerence that gives them a nice shot of "happy" - a dopamine boost..... If not the AD, then the behaviours that produce that same high.... Extreme sports, spending money, whatever...

Just that this "happy shot" is short-lived and temporary and then they need to get on to the next one - it is very similar to drug addiction - they need a new shot and a more powerful one than the last one in order to "feel" something....

[KellBell]

So is it fog or is it numbness, are they the same?

I think the fog creates the numbness like a bubble around them. Like it protects them from hard and complicated feelings they don't want to deal with. He still looks dead in the eyes...like no one is home. He gets confused easily, forgets things or misremembers recent things.

I'm a bit concerned just because I'm signing the final divorce papers this week- property settlements and custody/visitation was all figured out in the legal separation. He was adamant about not wanting any custody of our minor children and no set visitation. I told him despite that - that I would leave visitation open (which basically means he can call and if it fits their schedule then we can arrange a visit, but nothing set on a calendar. Pretty much up to my discretion.) He said whatever. Signed that document and agreed to it in front of the judge. The judge even verified "You agree to signing over full custody of your minor children with no set visitation?" He said "yup!" almost enthusiastically. He looked like such an idiot.

 Anyway so the other night when we were talking about the finalization of things and this is really just paperwork at this point. He said some rude things and I suggested we cut off communication for awhile and he can set up visitation handoffs (which he's only seen her once in 6 months so how many are we really talking about?) with the older Ds. And he seems to think he signed up for something called 'open custody'. I was like what!? And he said ya- I can see her whenever I want. Ummm no. That's not how that works. You gave up custody! And he was legitimately confused. He seemed to think he could just come see her any time he felt like it. And that it was a custody thing.  Not like he will because he lives a state away and has no interest in fathering at the moment. But it kind of worries me that he doesn't even remember what he signed up for. Or the legalities of it. So crazy! Not to mention some of the other property settlement stuff he agreed to. Like me getting to claims the kids as dependents from now on- which leaves him filing single (which in his tax bracket- holy buckets!). And I get the college deductions and everything else at my tax level which doesn't factor in child/spousal support. So I'm considerably lower and will actually get credits. He didn't even talk to our accountant and he's not thinking long term. Just now. What I want now. Which is really not like him- the old him.

All that being said- I'm kind of excited about the no communication for awhile. Because it's exhausting being in contact with a MLCer. And since we are basically divorced...a clean cut for a bit sounds sensible. It will help me heal a bit, because the wounds are deep. And when your trying to be understanding and strong...the pain and hurt never get to be fully healed. So crazy to actually say it - but I am truly excited to be free of him for awhile. I honestly hope he figures himself out, but I can't help him. And only time will tell if he uses this time apart for growth or if he just keeps sinking. Who knows. Our paths will cross again and I hope we can continue the journey together. Time will tell.

[Treasur]

It is remarkable isn’t it how ‘blind’ they seem to be to the entirely predictable consequences of their own choices? Or how they seem to be able to hear what they want and seemingly not hear/forget what they don’t? The only clear thing it seems to me is that the operating flavour is ‘get what I want at any given moment’ 

I suspect you and your kids will come to be rather grateful for the details of your divorce agreement. Your stbxh will most likely feel sorry for himself as a ‘victim’ or blame you.....hey ho 

Even now, years later, it is astonishing to me how my xh just left his old life behind as if me and it had never existed. And by essentially ghosting me. In many ways, he only exists in photos and my memory.....which is a very odd feeling sometimes, so causes me to doubt my own memory. Vanishers do that, of course. So, in a strange way, it’s a pretty useful reminder for someone like me that if a similar kind of person can shrug off their own kids (and it is pretty common here), of course a wife/home/friends/in-laws/pets/possessions are easy to erase. I will never understand it but i’m kind of glad that i’m not the sort of person who can tbh  And I am grateful for the many examples here of LBS chaps who would no more discard their kids than fly to the moon on a piece of cheese 

[forthetrees]

Wow. Maybe he was confusing open custody with open marriage and got on the "I get to do what I want when I want" train. The upside is that his decision regarding no custody is so out there that it is firm confirmation that he, not you, is the issue. It´d be SO much easier if they just sought some professional help. But no, they´ve gotta do the hardest way possible. I hope that your youngest D does not internalize his decision as a reflection on her in anyway. Thankfully you are about to have a long respite from the craziness and a chance to find a new equilibrium. Spring is coming, covid is hopefully waning and while you´ll be processing the loss for quite some time, hopefully there will be head space for new beginnings.

[KellBell]

I hope that your youngest D does not internalize his decision as a reflection on her in anyway.

xh had her this weekend for a bit and told her that he didn't think he would get remarried again because he really likes his life now. She looked at him and said "But we're not in it?" No answer from him- just on with the conversation.

So stupid and lost. I really hope he sticks to the infrequent visits...D definitely doesn't need to hear crap like that.

As for the custody thing- she knows. All the girls know. And it's been addressed (along with him telling them he didn't want to be a dad anymore) in their counseling sessions. That is rough stuff to try and process. On paper- I can conceivably find another husband/partner. But they can't/won't ever have another dad. So the only one they get...and he treats them like that. That's tough.

[Rollercoasterider]

All that being said- I'm kind of excited about the no communication for awhile. Because it's exhausting being in contact with a MLCer. And since we are basically divorced...a clean cut for a bit sounds sensible. It will help me heal a bit, because the wounds are deep. And when your trying to be understanding and strong...the pain and hurt never get to be fully healed. So crazy to actually say it - but I am truly excited to be free of him for awhile. I honestly hope he figures himself out, but I can't help him. And only time will tell if he uses this time apart for growth or if he just keeps sinking. Who knows. Our paths will cross again and I hope we can continue the journey together. Time will tell.

I'm so proud and impressed with your progress--you are personally quite far along given your Bomb Drop was only July of last year!
I want others to understand these take-aways because this is where I want Left Behind and Forward Moving Spouses to get--and then keep going!
This place where you are emotionally and your attitude is where I want others to get.

• Right now life will be simpler, easier, stabler, less chaotic... without his constant presence.
• You are being given time and space for your healing and growth--and you're taking it.
• When your trying to be understanding and strong...the pain and hurt never get to be fully healed.
  Grace, compassion, agape... you're right. Those can be challenging without space and with more direct and regular contact. Sometimes you need greater distance to enable that compassionate understanding.
• This time and space can be exciting!
  YES! YES! YES! That's the mindset!
• You hope he figures himself out, BUT recognize and accept that it's his job and you can't do it for him
  The way to help is by not helping, sometimes not stepping in or doing nothing is helping.
• Our paths will cross again and I hope we can continue the journey together.
  YES! This is where I want Standers to be! You live your life with joy, moving forward. You don't look back and watch them. you don't pull them along... You have faith in their journey that if they come through, you may both choose to continue your journey together--as a couple or in a different type of relationship. This is releasing.

Regarding time will tell if he uses this time apart for growth or if he just keeps sinking. He will initially keep sinking--or he may cycle a bit and seem better and worse and better and worse... MLC gets worse before it gets better and these are still the early days. The time in which you will see improvement is years, not a few months.

This is possible even with Clinging Boomerangs. Sure, it might have additional challenges since the space is not so vast. You've got to give yourself the space then...emotional space, boundaries. GAL Grab life and enjoy it. Be an example to your kids, yourself, your friends and family, your MLCer and to other Forward Moving Spouses!

[KellBell]

RCR- thank you for that! I've honestly had days where I've lied in the fetal position and refused to get out of bed. I have day where I sulk and get mad and want to just punch his stupid face. So it feels like it's been a trek to even get to this point.


Once I realized this- I felt like I was on the path forward.
My old marriage is over. It wasn't working for my husband. And if he wants a divorce- and feels like it's what he needs to 'be happy' then I'll give it to him. Because I know it's something he thinks he needs. And if I fight him or refuse it- he will get more angry, more resentful and it will hold back his journey even more. And if we do reconcile- it will need to be a new marriage. We are different people- I know I am. I've learned so much about myself and been pushed to my limits. AND I don't want to be married to this version of him. I don't want to be tied to him. I don't want to be subjected to his outbursts and the inevitable ramifications of his poor choices. Now don't get me wrong. I would have stayed married to him. Been with him through this and been strong for him. BUT he doesn't want me. And I can't force him to stay. And if he never progresses- I don't want to have stunted my own healing waiting for him- which I think I would have. I honestly think I am capable of loving him and caring for him and STANDING for him even though we are divorced. Giving him a real free chance to live and figure this out without the thought of me making him feel guilty or pressuring him. AND AGAIN...this specific to my STBXH and me. Our relationship. Not saying it's for everyone. And again...I do value my marriage vows. I take them extremely seriously. My H was my first love, first and only partner, my forever. So please don't mistake my devotion to the person I married. Unfortunately, he's just not around right now...a different version of him is.

 This will be either be an epic love story that we tell our grandchildren about. How we overcame the most turbulent times and came back together in a better more meaningful way. OR this will be his epic loss. I know who I am. I know my worth. I know my value and what I deserve from life, a partner and relationships. I know what I can give and how much I can love someone and support them. And if he doesn't want to be involved in that...it's really his loss. And I think I'd be ok with either outcome. I do pray that the version of my H that I married and fell in love with and was married to for 20yrs comes back to me or even someone slightly resembling him. BUT who he is now is so vastly different. When you see the hollow eyes, hear them say the strangest and meanest things, feel the hurt they cause you and know your loved one would NEVER do that...that's the moment you know you are dealing with someone else. And that made it easier for me to detach. I know my H is in there somewhere. And I hope he finds his way back through all this chaos. My final gift to him is TIME and FREEDOM.

[KellBell]

just journaling

I just realized what offended me so much about our last conversation on Monday. I said he was rude...but not much rude as indifferent. Like he had no emotion. And he's been that way for a few weeks. No more anger and emotional outbursts Just blah. Not happy, not angry, not anything. It's weird. Even D10 mentioned how odd it was spending time with him- she wasn't sure if he was having a good time or not because he wasn't anything. She said he was like a robot. I can only guess this means he is fully engulfed in the fog at this point. And seems fitting that the divorce will be final next week. We are both on different paths...in completely different directions.

As for me and my journey- I just signed up for an internship for assistant Director of Communications at local non-profit. I need the internship hours to complete my Bachelor's degree. Not sure how I will fit in- I know this semester is going to be crazy crazy. But I just need to keep my eyes on the prize...graduation is 5/11! Love that my kids have my back and are supporting me in my goals.

I've realized a few things during these past months-

 1) I have more people supporting me and rooting for me than I ever thought. Friends and family have rallied around the girls and I in so many ways. I was always the giver and care taker. Always doing for others. It took a minute for me to accept that we needed help through this and deserved that support because it's been so valuable. Late night phone calls, text exchanges, help with the move and selling of the houses, food and meals when I was in my deepest darkest moments and couldn't function, helping carpool my youngest around while I'm getting back to work and finishing school. Just so much love and compassion and judgement free understanding...we all deserve that and should open ourselves up to it. I'm not sure how I would have gotten through this alone.

2) My value. I realized that I tied my worth up in my kids and keeping house and making/maintaining this perfect family and marriage. And when it all came crashing down, I felt like a failure. I've since realized that my worth is not illustrated by my family. That I'm a person singular from them. And that person has worth all on her own. She is smart, kind, selfless and understanding. She's loyal and strong. And she is far more capable than I ever thought. In the face of this upheaval and in the midst of this chaos and pain- I have pushed on. I got up each day and did my best to face reality and process. And that is so hard. It would have been easier to hide and deny and complain and whine and stay in my own dark hole. But I knew that one of us had to be strong. Both of the parents couldn't check out. And that even though his actions hurt me to my core...I couldn't let those define me and my journey in this life. So regardless of if XH finds his way or not- I know I'll be ok. And not only ok...but once healed- I'll thrive.

3) and hope. This experience has crushed me to the point I felt the pain physically. At one point I was not functioning, refusing to get out of bed. The feelings of being unwanted, having your trust so utterly broken, your faith in someone being shattered, the loss in your sense of security, losing your bestfriend, the confusion and not being able to make sense of it- these are the things that crushed me. How could someone I trusted so fully, loved so fiercely and knew so intimately- hurt me so badly? I feel like those are wounds I'll be dealing with for awhile, but despite that pain I refuse to lose hope. Hope in the future. Hope in finding peace someday. Hope in being able to forgive. Hope in falling in love again (possibly with my xh). Hope in feeling safe and secure again. I want these things, I desire these things and I hope for these things.

[5hilmerton]

Hey K4510,
your last paragraph has a lot of my same thoughts and execution.  So glad to read that you will be graduating soon, yay May 11!  You are traveling this journey with so much Valor to thrive and succeed.  I love to read, like a plant that has been re-potted, you are adapting to your new environment and flourishing.

Carpe Diem,
5hil

[KellBell]

Just saying...

I may seem like I have my crap together. My head knows that this is MLC, what I should do and how I should detach and move forward. BUT my heart is still broken and hurt. Most days I wake determined to make the best of it and in acceptance of this new reality. BUT I still have really bad days. Like yesterday...I signed the final divorce papers. I couldn't stop the tears as I got onto the elevator. I just sobbed all the way to my car. I thought I got it together long enough to run into the grocery store, but almost had a full on break down in the laundry aisle. I went to the gym and ran on the treadmill until I was physically spent. And then I went home and cried in the shower for 45 minutes. This is really hard stuff. Emotional gut wrenching stuff and just as it takes the MLCer time...it's going to take us time. Time to heal and process. And truly see how much we can forgive, the cracks and if they are fixable, who we are as individuals and if there will be a place for our spouse once we've moved forward.

So please just know...I still break down and feel all of this. And it may seem like I'm farther ahead in coping but I'm still feeling and healing.

[xyzcf]

Your tears and feelings of sadness are normal Kelly. There is no timetable for grief.

Healing slowly brings us to a place of peace and acceptance but the loss will always be there.

We loved and were discarded without any input, without the chance to work things out.....he was my best friend. We built a  good life together. For me, it is a very empty life now. (COVID has made it worse and I also lost my dog last April so those factors contribute to my emptiness as well).

I do believe it is important to allow yourself to go through grief and feel everything. Sometimes we need the help of therapy to work through those feelings, sometimes medication and sometimes being able to chat with a good friend.

what I should do and how I should detach and move forward. BUT my heart is still broken and hurt.

All the "advice" and the "shoulds" and how we view this intellectually...cannot take away what our hearts feel. So be easy on yourself.

BUT I still have really bad days. Like yesterday...I signed the final divorce papers.

Of course that would be a really bad day. I may have already written this but the day I signed the papers and put them in the mail, I thought I was fine until that evening when I developed chest pain and ended up in the hospital.

9 years later, when he texted me to say he had filed divorce papers (previously we had a legal separation in place), I knew that these papers would be arriving in the mail. My daughter and son in law were coming to visit me and I did not want those documents to arrive when they were here...so I actually put a hold on my mail. Sure enough, after they left and the mail was delivered, the papers were in my mailbox. I am so glad I had the forsight to stop the mail so that the kids and I could enjoy the couple of days together.....the idea of being divorced is still so distasteful to me that I can't stand saying those words. I just can't.

Kelly, it is really good that you acknowledge how you are feeling. That is a very healthy thing to do and to recognize how you are in each day.

(((((HUGS))))))

[marvin4242]

Kelly I want to second what xyzcf said. Yes there will be sad days, yes there will be tears, because unlike our MLCers we are connected to our feelings, and we did not "discard" everything in our pasts and how we feel. FWIW at five years out I am having another spin around the sorrow wheel right now. But they do get shallower, shorter and not as hard.

So stay with how you feel, be kind to yourself, and know you are doing just fine.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Like yesterday...I signed the final divorce papers. I couldn't stop the tears as I got onto the elevator. I just sobbed all the way to my car. I thought I got it together long enough to run into the grocery store, but almost had a full on break down in the laundry aisle. I went to the gym and ran on the treadmill until I was physically spent. And then I went home and cried in the shower for 45 minutes. This is really hard stuff. Emotional gut wrenching stuff and just as it takes the MLCer time...it's going to take us time. Time to heal and process. And truly see how much we can forgive, the cracks and if they are fixable, who we are as individuals and if there will be a place for our spouse once we've moved forward.

Hi Kelly,

I just signed my divorce papers a month and feel the exact same way.  Really, really hard stuff to watch my XW self destruct and struggle and yet all we can do is move forward.   It will get easier in time.

HF

[JohnnyBravo]

I may seem like I have my crap together. My head knows that this is MLC, what I should do and how I should detach and move forward. BUT my heart is still broken and hurt. Most days I wake determined to make the best of it and in acceptance of this new reality. BUT I still have really bad days.

You're not alone, I'm right there with you. Fortunately I haven't had to run out of any meetings in a while, but the restart of the divorce process and knowledge of my wife moving is pulling me back in a lot.

[Treasur]

As others have said, we do know.
Just bc we cheer you on for all the sane, healthy, smart things you are doing (and bc we know these are downpayments made on a decent life on the other side of the pain), it does not mean for a moment that we don’t know or remember how exhausting and gut wrenching and surreal it probably is right now. I sobbed in some very strange places triggered by some very small things. Other things and places I just could not bear to even set foot in for a very long time.

Real courage tbh is not in NOT having those terrible normal feelings, it’s in doing what you have to do even though you have them. And we are cheering on your courage 

[Nas]

Real courage tbh is not in NOT having those terrible normal feelings, it’s in doing what you have to do even though you have them. And we are cheering on your courage 

Yes, this. ⬆️
Allowing yourself to feel the feelings is important. Avoiding things makes them grow bigger. Yesterday I was confronted with something  full of so much complexity I had all but blocked it out. I can’t say I simply moved past it, but it did not overwhelm me the way it would have in the first months after BD.

[Pacman]

All that being said- I'm kind of excited about the no communication for awhile. Because it's exhausting being in contact with a MLCer. And since we are basically divorced...a clean cut for a bit sounds sensible. It will help me heal a bit, because the wounds are deep. And when your trying to be understanding and strong...the pain and hurt never get to be fully healed. So crazy to actually say it - but I am truly excited to be free of him for awhile. I honestly hope he figures himself out, but I can't help him. And only time will tell if he uses this time apart for growth or if he just keeps sinking. Who knows. Our paths will cross again and I hope we can continue the journey together. Time will tell.

Fantastic view on the situation. You obviously have great strength.
And I would have to agree that sporadic contact does put you back to square one in the healing process (well it does me).
The knowledge that we can't help them is a struggle to accept but you seem to have it in spades.

[KellBell]

journaling about something so I can remember it.

I was picking up my D10's room Monday and I found a drawing she had made on her desk. It said "thoughts on my dad" in the center of the page and all around it she had drawn pictures; a red angry face, a pencil, a rain cloud, a dead flower, a balloon and a heart with a bandaid.

Initially, I was really sad she felt compelled to draw this or think about these things. So I asked her about it. She said she was just thinking about him and this is what she drew. I asked what the pictures meant and she said-

the angry face is because he would yell or get mad alot
the pencil was because he snapped easily
 a rain cloud because he was always gloomy
a dead flower because he seems tired and sad all the time
a balloon because he liked to talk about himself and seemed full of it sometimes
heart with a bandaid because he seems hurt and broken and she wishes it could be fixed.

I was amazed at how much she internalizes. How much she sees and understands. I think we know it's affecting our kids, but because kids aren't able to navigate these complicated feelings easily or so articulately that we never realize just HOW MUCH. We talked a bit longer about maybe some of the positive things about dad. She said it was hard because they are fuzzy and seem like so long ago. We decided to work on it the next day.

I showed the drawing to my therapist at my Tuesday appt. I told her how worried I was about her and that I had already emailed her counselor so they could address it. My therapist wasn't worried. She was impressed at how well D10 was able to express what she was seeing and dealing with. She was impressed with how well she illustrated depression and understood it. She said not even people suffering from it can describe it so well. D10 doesn't know about depression per se- she knows her dad is unhappy and working on things. But everything she illustrated is text book symptoms of depression. And she can see it and recognize it. Therapist also commented "How deep into this has your H fallen that his 10 year old D can see it that well? It must be a very dark place for him."

I wanted to upload the drawing, but couldn't figure it out. But really I guess I just wanted to reiterate that the kids see and feel more than we know. They are great covering up so much and a lot of the processing is internalized because they just don't know how to verbalize it. And because they don't really understand all the feelings. Our middle D is in college at the local university and the twins live on their own- so I don't see them as much as the younger D. I'm there when they want to talk and all have therapists available if and when they feel the need. I feel so much more determined for them to process so they don't end up with their own ticking time bomb down the road. Trying to stop the cycle the best I can...guess time will tell on that one too.

[MomOfSteel]

Kids notice.  My older two have made some very insightful observations lately.  I also worry that this break will be starting a destructive cycle for them.  I sometimes just hope that something will happen in my husband’s life to help him bottom out more quickly.  It seems like your daughter is processing her feelings which is really good.  It seems like the problems arise later in life when things have been repressed.  I’m hopeful if we can help them deal with things now, it will not be a problem for them later. 

[xyzcf]

the angry face is because he would yell or get mad alot
the pencil was because he snapped easily
 a rain cloud because he was always gloomy
a dead flower because he seems tired and sad all the time
a balloon because he liked to talk about himself and seemed full of it sometimes
heart with a bandaid because he seems hurt and broken and she wishes it could be fixed.

It is a positive thing that your daughter is able to draw what she sees. Sadly, I could recognize each "picture" as being true in my husband's case... this "because he liked to talk about himself and seemed full of it sometimes" was very evident to my daughter as well as close friends of ours.

Therapist also commented "How deep into this has your H fallen that his 10 year old D can see it that well? It must be a very dark place for him."

I think it is this that has kept me going all these years. MLC leads our loved ones into a very dark place, and the things they do, that seem mean or cruel (and they are) are linked to this place of depression.

As has been seen over and over, as evidenced in how they distance themselves from their children, the MLCer is in a place that we cannot even begin to comprehend. As much as we try to understand it. Whatever triggered it, whatever the cause......it is a world that I cannot fathom.

My own depression/anxiety/grief from the trauma of losing my husband and family unit is much different than his journey. Never the less, it has been a severe and difficult time for my daughter and I and it has left lasting scars on both of us.

So good that you have therapists who "get" this .Good therapy can be our lifeline out of our own pain and issues and allow us and our children to heal from this intense wounding.
 

feel so much more determined for them to process so they don't end up with their own ticking time bomb down the road. Trying to stop the cycle the best I can...guess time will tell on that one too.

Awareness of the issues and addressing them I think goes a long way to being a healthy individual. Your openess with your children will allow them to feel "safe" to feel whatever it is they are feeling...something I do not think my husband was allowed to do.

[KellBell]

Journaling-

Interesting that my XH is reinventing his relationship with his brother and father. His mother passed away in 2015 from her fourth battle with breast cancer and his dad quickly remarried the following year. His father moved four states away and only visited my xh and his older brother and all of us only 3 times in the next few years. And then no visits for the past three. He basically left his two sons and their families...including his 6 grandchildren. This really hurt my xh... all of us really. He didn't understand it and his dad really started pulling away right after they married. I find it crazy that xh then leaves his own children even after knowing how bad that hurts.

I don't think he was given enough time to grieve his mom before having to deal with his dad remarrying and basically disowning all of us. He has never had a close relationship with his brother. BUT now, miraculously, him and his brother "are getting along the best they ever have." And he's idolizing his dad as the 'best father'. I know this is probably part of his FOO issues. He's desperately trying to gain appreciation from them (doing whatever his brother asks...which is probably why they are getting along so well. They are business partners and my xh basically just lets his brother take the reins and he's just coasting behind saying 'yes, you're right. great idea." SMH

And his dad...ughhh.

Just so sad. I know he drawing them close to improve that relationship and in an effort to feel more like a peer or an equal rather than the failure little brother/younger son. Just sucks because he's never going to get what he's looking for from them. Watching the ones you love dig deep holes is really sucky. If only they would just let us in.

Other random things. He has never said he doesn't love me. Just not in love with me. He talks respectfully about me to his two friends...one was even surprised how he spoke so highly of someone he was divorcing. He thinks I am an amazing mother, intelligent and strong. Which kind of stinks because he actually used that as an excuse to be able to leave. Because evidently he knew I'm strong enough to handle it. SMH

He hasn't told anyone about the divorce. I'm guessing it's because the first few people he told called him out and said it sounded like an MLC and asked why he wasn't trying to fix it. So if he doesn't talk about it then he doesn't have find answers to the hard questions. Or the repercussions. 

Kids- he's reaching out a bit more. Only via text. He texts them once or twice a week. Quick conversations and always end love you, dad. At first I was like wow! He's actually trying. Then I realized no. He's not. He's really just doing the bare minimum. Words are easy. Facing your kids or even talking to them on the phone takes real effort. And actions speak louder than words. He's still just doing enough to ease that tiniest bit of guilt he might have. Or quite possibly he's just a robot going through the actions that he thinks are expected of him. Last night all the girls and I were cuddled up on the sectional watching the olympics and their phones sounded one right after the other. All of them got the same text. 'Hey kiddo. How was you week? Hope it was good.' I'm guessing he copied and pasted the text to each of them. So stupid.

And our middle daughter- he's trying to convince her to get into rock climbing to help her with her erb's palsy. He SHOULD know physically that is not an option...her arm doesn't work that way. But it really just comes down to him projecting onto her his desires to rock climb. He's definitely not in shape right now to do that, but when he lived in CO the one semester he made it in college...he rock climbed a bit and really enjoyed it. PROJECTION He also talks to her ALOT about just following her dreams and doing whatever she wants as long as she's happy. She knows what she wants to do. Her college degree path is figured out. He feels he can't do what he really wants to because he's tied to the family business. So MORE PROJECTION. I also noticed this projecting when he was back a few weeks ago. D10 has been talking about an electric scooter...so he took her around to several bicycle shops trying to find her an electric bike, but really just spent 2 hours talking to the sales men about bikes and his glory days. Daughter was bored and didn't understand because she doesn't even want an electric bike. Hard to explain projection to a 10 year old.

Anyway...just some random thoughts about how sucky MLC is and annoyingly messy.

[HeavenlyFocus]

Journaling-
Other random things. He has never said he doesn't love me. Just not in love with me. He talks respectfully about me to his two friends...one was even surprised how he spoke so highly of someone he was divorcing. He thinks I am an amazing mother, intelligent and strong. Which kind of stinks because he actually used that as an excuse to be able to leave. Because evidently he knew I'm strong enough to handle it. SMH

He hasn't told anyone about the divorce. I'm guessing it's because the first few people he told called him out and said it sounded like an MLC and asked why he wasn't trying to fix it. So if he doesn't talk about it then he doesn't have find answers to the hard questions. Or the repercussions. 

Very similar in my case with my XW as she still has spoken highly of me to others.  My XW also didn't even tell her own parents that she filed.   I had to be the one to break the news.

Kids- he's reaching out a bit more. Only via text. He texts them once or twice a week. Quick conversations and always end love you, dad. At first I was like wow! He's actually trying. Then I realized no. He's not. He's really just doing the bare minimum. Words are easy. Facing your kids or even talking to them on the phone takes real effort. And actions speak louder than words. He's still just doing enough to ease that tiniest bit of guilt he might have. Or quite possibly he's just a robot going through the actions that he thinks are expected of him. Last night all the girls and I were cuddled up on the sectional watching the olympics and their phones sounded one right after the other. All of them got the same text. 'Hey kiddo. How was you week? Hope it was good.' I'm guessing he copied and pasted the text to each of them. So stupid.

Your comment about doing the bare minimum really resonates with me.   My XW still relies heavily on me and my kids still yearn for her love and attention.   When she was a live in MLCer, she really distanced herself from the kids.   Over the past year, she has gotten more involved which is good but she still complains to me about all of their activities impacting her life.     You are doing a great job supporting you kids and hoping your XH is able to reconnect in a meaningful way in the future.

HF

[KellBell]

just MLC musings

my xh is late on his monthly spousal and child support. Could he be doing this as childish way to lash out at me because he's still unhappy and I'm still the sole cause- possibly. Could he be doing this be because he simply forgot to make the payment because his mind and memory are crap right now...possibly. Who knows, really. Just stupid because he's only hurting himself. He's hurting his credit. It does nothing to me. Payments go through the state and they police it. I received enough in the settlement that he could not pay for a year and I still wouldn't notice. Just stupid. Stupid MLC crap.

[MadLuv]

Mine was contractional so it doesn't go through the courts. He pays me by transferring into my bank weekly. He used to be late every time I tried to cut off communication as like a punishment or more a bait tk get me to call. He hasn't done it for a while. Crossing my fingers he is growing from a toddler to a teen   

[KellBell]

Thoughts...

My xh MLC has sent me into one of my own. Not a crisis- thank goodness. But a transition. Since BD I have been contemplating my future. Who am I? What do I want? What do I want to pursue? No longer a part of a 'we'. But a lone singular person that once upon a time had dreams, goals, talents and desires. Things I really wanted to accomplish and do, but kids, mothering and life in general always kept getting in the way.

My xh BDed me the day my bestfriend and her family arrived to spend 5 days with us at our house for the 4th of July. Literally an hour before they arrived- he said I'm done. And then he stayed. He acted like everything was fine. Complimented me on meals, sat by me on the couch, helped me around the kitchen. My mind was spinning and alot of that visit is a blur. But I do remember telling my friend the day before she left what he had said. She's an attorney so I thought that might be helpful. But instead of legal advice- one of the first questions she asked was 'So what are you going to do now? What is Kelly going to do for herself?"

At the time I was confused and literally was like "no freaking clue!!" But what I realized is that she wanted me to start prioritizing myself. She knows how much of myself was woven into the family unit and now that unit was fractured. She knew how much of myself (my thoughts, care and love) were consumed with my xh. She wanted me to have a plan. Something to focus on. None of us (standers) know how this will turn out, but I do know that I'm taking the time to discover myself. Parenting on my own terms. Going where I want and doing what I want when I want (like weekend trips away and holidays). There is just so much freedom in this time our MLCers have given us. I have never been closer to my children. Therapy has helped me immensely not only with my M but also with parenting and figuring out myself. I NEVER would have gone to therapy or counseling for myself had MLC never happened.

I'm in school finishing up my degrees. Not because I need to, but because I want to. I always thought about going back to school to finish, but never did because I felt too guilty for taking time and resources away from the family. But now I'm making it a priority and my kids are fully supporting me.

I've started writing a book, one that I've always wanted to write but never dedicated time to. I have a friend who is an author and she's been so helpful with agents, publishers and strategies. Really just helping me visualize and plan- guiding me through the process. She's been my friend for years and I've known she's been a best selling author since her first book came out 12 years ago. But I never really got past the "I am going to write a book one day" mentality of it.

The girls and I are making travel plans for next few years- and having a blast picking out destinations and planning itineraries.

My girls and I have never been closer. We've had such deep conversations mixed with sobbing tears and have cuddled together in my bed. We've acknowledged our pain, anger and confusion yet vowed to move forward. We've laughed and spent hours together doing silly things- just to fill the empty void. We've leaned on each other and supported each other. And it really has been beautiful to see how amazing these kids are.

I loved taking care of my family. I loved being my husband's wife. I loved all the cooking, planning, PTO committees and school stuff. I loved coaching the kids' teams and helping them with school projects or visiting them in college and supporting their dreams. I loved running the household, budgeting, groceries, holidays, birthdays etc. I loved serving my community and teaching Sunday school. I loved being my XH's sounding board for work issues and his anchor when he would 'dream' too big.  On the surface that looks like alot of Kelly just doing for everyone else...but I found joy in doing those things. I like caring for people and being helpful and fixing and providing. It's in my nature. But I can care, help and provide in any circumstance. And I realized that just because it's not how it was- doesn't mean that part of me is lost.

So now I'll be incorporating those core parts of me into how my life is now. ONLY now I'm going to be sure and make time for ME. Go out with my girlfriends for dinner or lunch. Focus on my health. Explore some plans I had shelved over the years. Decide how I want to be in my next relationship. I hope it is with my XH, but I'm already starting to notice how this has MLC has changed me and how I see things. How I want things. And certain aspects I won't compromise again. Because I know I'm ok by myself. And if that's the worst possible outcome...being by myself...then that's ok with me.

[UrsaMajor]

Thoughts...

My xh MLC has sent me into one of my own. Not a crisis- thank goodness. But a transition. Since BD I have been contemplating my future. Who am I? What do I want? What do I want to pursue? No longer a part of a 'we'. But a lone singular person that once upon a time had dreams, goals, talents and desires. Things I really wanted to accomplish and do, but kids, mothering and life in general always kept getting in the way.

Hmmmmmm ......

Not so sure if this was / is an MLT as much as it is a period of forced growth and the results of your own mirror work... When 50% of the equation is suddenly AWOL and the remaining 50% has to become 100%, we grow to "fill the gap," especially if we have kids....

[KellBell]

Ursa-

 I guess I was just thinking back prior to BD. Years leading up to it- I did have my own wonderings about what we would do sans kids at home or what I would do now with only one kid at home. My sahm duties becoming less and less. Wondered what our lives would look like in these next few years as we adjusted. Would I work? Would I get more involved in my charities and organizations? Would we travel once Covid cooled down?

NEVER in a million years did I think we would be venturing down this path. And now I am forced to look at who I am, my wants, my needs, my ambitions, goals etc. And although it's not a midlife CRISIS...it is definitely a forced moment of self reflection (which in itself isn't a bad thing). I would have been content with our lives the way they were. It was a good life. Could parts have been tweaked and improved- for sure. So as part of my 'trying to see the positives in this hellish experience' - I think this is a positive for me. For my growth and my well being. Never hurts to invest in yourself.

[UrsaMajor]

NEVER in a million years did I think we would be venturing down this path. And now I am forced to look at who I am, my wants, my needs, my ambitions, goals etc. And although it's not a midlife CRISIS...it is definitely a forced moment of self reflection (which in itself isn't a bad thing). I would have been content with our lives the way they were. It was a good life. Could parts have been tweaked and improved- for sure. So as part of my 'trying to see the positives in this hellish experience' - I think this is a positive for me. For my growth and my well being. Never hurts to invest in yourself.

Absolutely positive... I think the difference between what you describe here and what is normally considered as an MLT/MLC is the amount of destruction involved. Even an MLT can be a rather pain-inducing experience for all concerned whereas a purposeful reflection of where we are, who we are, where we are g(r) o(w) ing and what we want to do/be when we grow up is deliberate and thoughtful ...

[KellBell]

journaling-

I still find it surreal at how oblivious my xh is. And how I don't even recognize this person. He treats me with such indifference and coldness...every time. I know this is par for the course, but dang. He's still sending superficial texts to the kids once a week or so, probably so he can he tried/attempted contact. But at least it's something.

I am super thankful he his out of state and I don't have to see him very often. Not sure I would survive this if that wasn't the case. I do have this underlying feeling or worry...that if he does 'wake up' - will I be able to forgive him? Will I still love him? Everyday I feel us slipping further and further apart. Or is it me drifting away from him and his path? It's hard to run parallel instead of veering off in our own direction as we grow, heal and discover ourselves. I want to think I'm the type of person who can forgive and lives with compassion and kindness...and I was. But this experience has me wondering what is the last straw? When has the line been crossed? How much can I take before I become indifferent and just no longer care? Some days it feels like I'm there and some days I'm content in my choice of giving him time and seeing what happens. Healing has it's ups and downs. I am thankful the peaks and valleys have mellowed- the first few months were the worst. I wanted to kill him one minute and then the next I just wanted to hold him and make it all better for him...all the while sobbing uncontrollably. Now it's just moments of reflection after a text or weeks without contact.

Such a mindboggling experience. There are still days I wake up and think "What the fu*& happened!?" It's just so unbelievable.

[MomOfSteel]

Kelly and UM, I’ve been thinking about this too that it seems like I’m going through my own changes.  It was forced on me but I’m trying to use the difficult circumstances to refine myself and using it as a chance to be better for myself.  I guess all of us have to decide if we are going to use this crisis to remain where we were or to propel us forward.  In that respect I feel pity for my H that he’s doing his changing in a less controlled way without the understanding of what is really happening in himself.  I think we at least have that benefit as the LBS. 

I also completely relate to wondering how much I could really forgive.  He has caused so much damage and the destruction of trust would be hard to overcome.  I also wonder if he would ever really be able to shake his own selfishness and truly do the work that would be required.  At this point being left hurts and I hate it but it seems like reconciliation would also be hard.  It’s like there is no way forward except through more trial and heartache. 

[barbiedoll]

I do believe we are indeed forced or pushed into our own "crisis".  For me , it was absolutely a crisis . After near 30 years together..he is suddenly just gone. With very little warning it all fell apart in ways that are still hard to think about. Like it has been said so many times, we cycle in our healing and fifuring out what WE want , what we feel, how we will cope and what our future will look like.  I still cycle between what I really want in my life now and what is true and absolute forgiveness. Trust will never be 100% again. It never can be.  For myself the loss of respect was incredibly painfull. 

I do have this underlying feeling or worry...that if he does 'wake up' - will I be able to forgive him? Will I still love him?

.

I also thought about this deeply. How will I EVER regain love, respect or trust?  . My H had a rapid speed leave and return . He was only out of the house with his OW-fling for 4 months.  He never lived with her that I am aware of.  During that 4 months, I can assure you , there was no "work" done on ME. I was absolutely in shock . Trying to go to work, talk to my kids, sleep, answer a million questions from a million shocked people and just breathe was all I could manage. I cried , believed his monstering blame and just shed 40 lbs in absolute devastation. I did not have the "time" that is such a gift to start to look at yourself and heal.  I let him return far far too quickly ...but I was so traumatised , I could not think at all.  I believe I love my H ...but not as I did. I fiercely and deeply loved him for a very long long time. The security and safety for myself and my daughters was solid....he was like the guard at the gate of our family. He was the 1 standing strong male in a household of 6 women ..he was everything.  I no longer have that kind of love and will never again. He left his post at the gate and willingly let our family be abandoned and he actively pursued a stranger above his own.  My love is very different and sometimes feels absent as it can come and go. The "feeling" of love comes and goes. I believe love is a decision ...if it was only a "feeling" we would be divorced as feelings ar pretty damn powerful.  I trust him in some ways ...and in other ways I will never trust him again.  How could it really be any other way?   Its a very hard road ..one that I will never walk again.

[Nas]

NEVER in a million years did I think we would be venturing down this path. And now I am forced to look at who I am, my wants, my needs, my ambitions, goals etc. And although it's not a midlife CRISIS...it is definitely a forced moment of self reflection (which in itself isn't a bad thing). I would have been content with our lives the way they were. It was a good life. Could parts have been tweaked and improved- for sure. So as part of my 'trying to see the positives in this hellish experience' - I think this is a positive for me. For my growth and my well being. Never hurts to invest in yourself.

Absolutely positive... I think the difference between what you describe here and what is normally considered as an MLT/MLC is the amount of destruction involved. Even an MLT can be a rather pain-inducing experience for all concerned whereas a purposeful reflection of where we are, who we are, where we are g(r) o(w) ing and what we want to do/be when we grow up is deliberate and thoughtful ...

Agree with UM on this. And the important thing is that you are doing this self-reflection and change in a deliberate and thoughtful manner, as opposed to making selfish, hasty choices based on emotions. And that is absolutely critical, because every day that you focus on you puts you in a better position to deal with what may come. None of us have any idea what may come tomorrow.

[KellBell]

I changed my username - a bit of paranoia probably but would hate for XH to see it (as it was identifiable to me personally). Anyway...that's all. 

[KellBell]

MLC musings-

It's almost been a month since our divorce was finalized. And I'm actually starting to feel ok again. I sing to songs on the radio again, I smile and laugh more. I feel 'lighter' in a weird way. Not focusing on him and his issues has lightened my load. It is an adjustment having so much more time to devote to me and my wants/desires/goals etc. And I'm kind of liking it. I mean I love him, but he's a grown man with work to do...or not. His choice. His life.

Speaking of his life...

XH's temper is showing at work, unable to keep frustrations in check, contacting the girls less and less (and when he does it's even shorter text exchanges than before). D10 told him about our annual lake trip, how I booked it and she was super excited I got the same place as last year (he didn't go on that trip as it was 3 weeks post BD). He immediately ended the conversation. (Gotta love that maturity level) Complained to a mutual friend that was just calling to check on him- saying he's all alone and has no one to talk to. Work is crappy and he's having issues with his rental. His allergies are not agreeing with his new location. Lots of complaining and just negative in general. And all of this to a casual friend...not even a close one. The friend mentioned it was odd...and told xh 'well, we are where we are'. Pretty sure that flew right over his head. But still - I got a little laugh out of it.

interesting stuff as we continue on this ride. Just glad I'm in my boat and not his...mine seems to be more seaworthy. 

[MadLuv]

KB- your XH sounds like mine. Edgy at work, poor me, complain, complain…. And then mine was fired after 38 years. They can’t get out of their own way. Poor poor MLCer

[UrsaMajor]

Yeah.... Mean old Mr. Reality is really a massive buzzkiller, isn't he? I mean, responsibilities, consequences, all that stuff... but, no matter how far they run, how fast they run, how hard they run, where ever they go, there they are. They can not outrun their own internal emptiness.....

It is like trying to run from the cops... You may be able to outrun Ford, Dodge, or Chevrolet but you can't outrun Motorola... Sooner or later it ALL catches up....

[KellBell]

journaling-

I'm doing great with detaching...I don't really care what he's doing as my plate is plenty full at the moment. But the anger is slowly starting to boil up. It's like it lingers just under the surface. And I've never in this whole mess had a blow up 'I hate you wtf are you doing you piece of sh*t' moment in all of this. Truth darts yes. Questions yes. Crying in confusion yes. But never a real blow up. And it's really starting to pile up. And this week it really hit me...he left our kids. My ten year old doesn't have a dad anymore. He's been back for one substantial weekend visit since BD in July. Other than that- nothing but stupid texts. He's not there to cheer her on in volleyball games. To go to her parent teacher conferences. To go to doctor appointments or field trips. He missed he first day of school this year. Didn't come back for Thanksgiving or Christmas. My twin D23 are getting ready to buy homes this spring. Where is he? No advice. No help. No nothing. Our middle D started college this year...where was he when she moved into the dorm? Where was he when it was family weekend on campus? Where was he for midterms to comfort and support?

I get this is his stupid selfish journey but holy frick! He was depressed two whole years prior to bd. He started checking out and was angry. And really just butting heads with the girls and pushing them away. I thought it was a learning curve parents adjusted to with adult kids...learning new boundaries and roles. But no...he was just checking out. And now here we are almost 9 months post BD and what!? Nothings changed. He still depressed. Still angry and still pushing the kids away. Our relationship aside...which is a whole bucket of f*&ked up-edness all on its own. But this is just getting to be insane. I think what set me off is that he took three days PTO at work last week to go 'up in the mountains' and was unreachable for work. Which he has never done...ever. He's always reachable...on every weekend and every vacation. Wtheck!? OW probably...who knows...who cares.

The point is...I'm getting upset for my kids. What a jerk. He's missing out on events and memories that he'll never be able to make up for. There will be moments of our kids' lives that he's not apart of. And its sad and disappointing and it's making me angry.

that's all. just blowing off steam

[MadLuv]

KB-
Kudos to you for never having a blow up. I wish I could say the same. I have had a few WTF are you doing moments. Always wrapped up in the affects on the kids more than me. It is totally understandable as a mother to find it hard to not take it personally when you kids ( mo matter the age) are affected.

Parents protect their kids no matter what, so to know and to see them not think of there own kids is a hard pill to swallow. It is the confirmation however that proves that it is a mid life crisis. There is NO WAY this would happen otherwise. The hardest part is stepping aside and trying not to get in the middle. I found and find myself trying to protect my own kids from the blows. My S is totally receptive, but my D wants to live in somewhat oblivion and not accept her F is not himself.

The waterfall affect of their actions are just so immense it can make the most sane person feel insane. You are and have been doing so good. Keep coming here and vent. I also found having several friends that I could talk to helped. I connected with some other women going through similar circumstances and wanted to also vent. It helps. This is just an insane crisis and even with this forum and all the reading you can find yourself in those WTF moments where screaming in a pillow just doesn’t cut it.

[KellBell]

journaling-

I woke up this morning with the overwhelming urge to just let completely go. Quit with the expectations. Quit with trying to understand and make sense of something that can never be explained or justified. Quit letting the negatives infiltrate my thoughts. Just stop, quit and let go. Which is kind of insane, because I thought I was in a really good place. Detaching, making plans, therapy and GALing. But this morning I woke up different. A level of peace I haven't felt in long time.

And even though I felt this urge and I knew it was the right decision- I was still apprehensive. Then a number of small things happened and they really reiterated that this is most definitely the best move. And a necessary move. It's easy to say detach - detach- detach, but the heart and emotions and the mind are tricky little things to control. However this morning I do feel this real sense of wow- xh has a long way to go/grow before he is worthy of me again. Not because I am this great and wonderful thing, but because if I met him tomorrow as an absolute stranger and knew only what was presented to me in his current state...I wouldn't give him a second thought. He is not the man I want right now. And not the father I want for my children right how. I will always love and care for him and mourn the old him, because that's who I miss. But this man I know now...is not worthy of us. And I'm at peace with that. Holding on to contention and anger is only hurting me. Xh could care less at the moment who he's hurting or neglecting. And my feelings just don't register with him. So stop wasting the energy. 

I will continue to treat him with the kindness and respect I would afford anyone else. I will not compromise my character, who I am, for him.

And it feels good letting this final piece go. I know it's a marathon, a journey and all that. But getting to this step - is a huge moment for me. I'm now all-in. 100% on my path. And I'll do so in faith - knowing my best life is yet to come.

[KellBell]

My take and approach to MLC is not for everyone. I get that. But here's how I see it.

My xh's MLC is not the defining moment of my life. I won't let it. My life is more than that. Did something crappy happen to me and my kids- absolutely. Are we going carry the scars forever- most definitely. But I had a decision to make. Wallow and dwell on my tragic circumstances and complain about how unfair it is OR pick myself up. Realize that this is his issue. His loss. And there is absolutely nothing I can do to help him right now except to focus on myself and help my family. That doesn't mean it's easy or that it doesn't hurt- because it does.

I have read countless articles on MLC and depression. I've scoured the internet on return stories, fog experiences and anything and everything to help me cope. What I've discovered is that every MLC is unique. There are no guarantees. MLC is an identity crisis. And I needed to come to terms with the fact that my xh very well like his new identity (eventhough I don't and can't fathom how his life now is better than ours was). He may like it so much that he never wants to change or grow. But you know what- it's his life. His choice. And there's nothing I can do. So why dwell on it?

I was sexually abused as a child, grew up in a divorced home and pretty much had a sh$%ty childhood. I've went to therapy and counseling years ago to deal with those issues, but from those experiences I've developed an armor or perspective on life. And that is- you can let the bad things in life victimize you OR you can grow and let go. Bad things happen to everyone. Life isn't fair. It was never meant to be. Shift your focus to see what the positives are in your situation. In the beginning, I could only list one. Now my list of positives are more than my negatives. And I'm not talking about your spouse...but the situation you are in. We will always wish things could have been different and that this didn't happen, but we have to quit focusing on that. Tuck it away.

I'm sorry that my response to FI's post offended people. But I'm done being miserable. My xh's MLC has nothing to do with me. It never did. And I'm damned well not going to let it ruin my life as well as his. I have worth. I am good person. I'm a great mother. I am a good friend. I have alot to offer. And my life will be full again without him. My feelings towards my xh are mixed. I love him and I hate him. I'm mad at him and I pity him. It will take time for me to find peace with him. I am standing for now...in the sense that I am giving my xh time to process and deal with his MLC. I'm leaving the door open. And just because the door is open - doesn't mean he just gets to walk on through when he feels like it. The door is open on our proverbial house and I'm out living my life. Maybe I'll close the door. Maybe I'll sell the house. Maybe when I get home and see him sitting in the living room- I turn and run OR have maybe I have someone with me. Who knows. But the point is...I'm not watching the door. I'm living my life. We just have to quit giving them more of ourselves- when they've already broken what they had.

I refuse to let this experience harden my heart. Did it open my eyes and force me to learn alot- yes. But I need to be an example to my kids. I want them to know that people will hurt you and life will be devastating. But you are strong enough to make it through. You can and will make it through with grace and kindness and grit. You will have to do hard things like cry yourself to sleep at night and still get up and face the day. You will have to be kind to yourself and give yourself time to process and grieve. I want to highlight the importance of mental health and normalize counseling and therapy. I want them to develop the tools to face hard things. I want them to learn from this experience- not just make it through. Which is what I really want for every LBS. Our spouses hurt us...to the core and have left us with heavy issues to deal with. The PTSD and trauma are very real and will need to be dealt with. But stop letting them jade your outlook on life. They took so much from you...why let them take more? Love is complicated and messy. It's not perfect. I hope to find it again. I will approach my next relationship with a more discerning eye and this experience in my back pocket...but I will not let it snuff out my hope and belief in the goodness of people and love. If you don't believe in redemption...then you are not a stander.

Life is a messy beautiful thing full of experiences, grief, love and emotions. We grow the most in the hardest darkest moments of our lives. I've been given this opportunity for growth...and I'm gong to take it.

[Imgood]

I’m of the same mindset as you. I’ve recently gotten a lawyer and will be divorced soon, probably within a couple of months. My attitude is: bad things happen to good people all the time. It’s how you respond that matters most. I feel sad for both me and my H. Sad that this is happening to him but I’m also sad for me and our children but I recognize and accept that it is out of my control. I very much miss my H but the person I see now, is not my husband and I have no interest in being with this person. I am open to a future with him but I am not going to sit around waiting on him with a hope and a prayer that he’s going to snap out of it and come back. This could go on for years and I’m not willing to waste the precious years I have left. What if he were to never come out of his MLC…….I will have wasted years. I’m not willing to gamble on this, when the odds are so against me. So what does this mean for me…it means I’m open to life, to meeting interesting, well-adjusted men and the possibility of a relationship. I’m not running around looking for one but if it comes my way when I’m ready, yay! If it doesn’t, I’m ok with that too. I’ve been living without him for 18 months and there is a part of me that likes not answering to anyone. In fact, at this point, I do not envision myself living full-time with anyone ever again. The only person that could maybe make that happen, would be my H if he ever starts showing signs of coming out of his MLC, yet at the same time, whose to say if I’ll not be in love with another man if and when that were to happen. I’ve stepped aside and I let go of him months ago. I continue to be kind to him and treat him as I would a co-worker. I only contact him if absolutely necessary. At this point, I just want to be done with the divorce. Don’t get me wrong, I never wanted this divorce. I tried six ways to Sunday to get him to counseling. I definitely didn’t plan on this happening at this age and married almost 30 years. We are “suppose” to be traveling and enjoying the fruits of our hard work after all these years, but alas, life “had other plans”.

[UrsaMajor]

And, on that/those notes....

It is time for a new thread....



New thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11848.0