[Pacman]

Old thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11833.150

So to continue.
She messaged about her mum having a scan due to possible dementia.
Says that her mum and dad would like to see me and that she wants me to continue visiting them?

I know I'm trying to taste green with my elbow 

But whilst part of me thinks it was "good" that she reached out to me I just don't understand her thinking. Why contact me when she has categorically stated that she doesn't want me as a H anymore.

I want to offer sympathy but at the same time not sure that it is the right thing to do given everything that is going on and may only reinforce her "I want to be friends" attitude.

It may be a small win but not sure how to interact with her anymore.

Seconding what HF said. It's not necessarily giving up, and you don't have to accept the situation but more the fact that you have no control over it. It's moving towards thinking with your head rather than your heart. It's a long slog, and you need strength in order to not give up. The strength you build will help you whether or not the outcome is what you're hoping for.

And as always, easier said than done.

JB

It feels like giving up on the marriage.

Hi Pac,

It now has been over 1 year since BD for me and my W is still lying and off in her fantasy world.   I have worked to accept this and let go but I have not given up on my marriage although I am at the brink of D.   I am not moving on but moving forward with my life for me and my kids.   This MLC experience is awful but I still have joy in my life.   Keep posting  and in time it will get easier with each coming day.

HF

Stuck in my black and white thinking. If she is out then she is out and nothing I can do about it. But wish that it wasn't the case and that things would work out differently. Don't want what we had as obviously that was troubled. Want a new start and rebuild.

[OffRoad]

I've read all the resources numerous times but it all points to letting go, giving up, accepting it and moving on.
I'm not anywhere near ready to do that even though I've tried.

You have part of this right. Yes, let go. You cannot make her do what you want. Yes, accept that this is the situation you have right now. But you do not have to give up or move on. Do, however, move FORWARD.  Think of it like you are moving on a path. She is moving on another path (maybe in a tunnel) that is not your path. Maybe your paths will intersect or connect back up at some point, but you cannot know if that will happen or not.

When you move forward, you work on yourself, improve your mindset, your health, make sure you are good in your own skin, with or without her or any other person. If she gets her head on straight and wants to work on the marriage, you are in a good place. If she does not, you are in a good place. If you end up finding someone else or not, you are in a good place. All of that has zero to do with giving up or moving on. It has to do with taking care of yourself, making you the best you for yourself. Not for anyone else, but for you.

Hanging on with the attitude that you can "nice" or polite her back, or even just "not scare her away" helps no one. It does not help you, it does not help her. You can still be polite if you want to, but only if it is not hurtful to you.  You matter.

You don't have to stop standing for your marriage to take care of yourself and keep moving down the metaphorical road. How would you feel if she arrived at the end of the road, and you weren't there because you stayed stuck?

Little anecdote. I went out to Denny's with (at the time) soon to be XH to figure the split of the assets. As we sit there, he is telling me all about how upset he is that a friends father has died (this happened several month previous, so was not new news). The he stops and says "I don't know why I am telling you all this." I said "I am the one you told all these things to for 20 some years. Why would you stop now?" And it was exactly that. I was the familiar face he always told these things to. It meant zero to him. Zilch. Nada. I was just familiar. I could have been rude, but chose not to, there was no point in being rude. He had no concept of how what he had done had devastated me. He did not care, all he cared about was himself.

This is your W. It's not good or bad that she "reached out" to you. She just needed someone to talk to, you know her and her mother, you are familiar. She needs to manage her image that she is not a bad person. That's all it is.

As to you, respond if that is who you are and it does not hurt you. If it hurts you, do not respond. Place zero importance on anything she does, because guaranteed, she is placing zero importance on you.

[Trustandlove]

Regarding your in-laws; my view would be to visit them if that is what you would like to do, regardless of her.  But don't feel you have to if you don't have the kind of relationship with them that would warrant that. 

My MIL was diagnosed with Alzheimer's just a few months after BD; despite everything my then H was doing I continued to see her, independently; I also took the children when that was possible.  She, although already going downhill, was devastated about what my H was doing when she found out; she deteriorated very quickly so soon lost all coherence, but she had always been kind to me and I saw no reason to stop seeing her.  H never tried to introduce an OW to her, which admittedly helped.   

I also agree with what OffRoad says...

[JohnnyBravo]

You don't have to stop standing for your marriage to take care of yourself and keep moving down the metaphorical road. How would you feel if she arrived at the end of the road, and you weren't there because you stayed stuck?

This is a really good one for everyone, OffRoad. Thanks.

Pacman, as to the mother-in-law, I'm trying to think of what I'd do if I heard that my SIL were in some related situation. My relationship with my SIL never grew to the point where we would just chat or support each other on our own. If I did, I'd reach out to her directly, rather than through my W. But I don't have that relationship, so I wouldn't reach out. If W asked me to support her (W) through a crisis with SIL, I don't think I would. At least, not at this stage in MLC. W chose to abandon my support for her, and she certainly isn't supporting me emotionally, so no dice. That may sound petty, but I think it's realistic.

JB

[Pacman]

You have part of this right. Yes, let go. You cannot make her do what you want. Yes, accept that this is the situation you have right now. But you do not have to give up or move on. Do, however, move FORWARD.  Think of it like you are moving on a path. She is moving on another path (maybe in a tunnel) that is not your path. Maybe your paths will intersect or connect back up at some point, but you cannot know if that will happen or not.

You are right, she chose to have an affair and chose to leave me and the family.

When you move forward, you work on yourself, improve your mindset, your health, make sure you are good in your own skin, with or without her or any other person. If she gets her head on straight and wants to work on the marriage, you are in a good place. If she does not, you are in a good place. If you end up finding someone else or not, you are in a good place. All of that has zero to do with giving up or moving on. It has to do with taking care of yourself, making you the best you for yourself. Not for anyone else, but for you.

Starting to think if that is the person she is now I'm not sure that I would be able to get passed the betrayal, the lies, the hurt and the anger???

Hanging on with the attitude that you can "nice" or polite her back, or even just "not scare her away" helps no one. It does not help you, it does not help her. You can still be polite if you want to, but only if it is not hurtful to you.  You matter.

I need to understand this....I matter and I am not what she made me out to be by her actions.

You don't have to stop standing for your marriage to take care of yourself and keep moving down the metaphorical road. How would you feel if she arrived at the end of the road, and you weren't there because you stayed stuck?

Not sure at the moment whether I could take her back after this. And who knows what or who she continues to do now.

Little anecdote. I went out to Denny's with (at the time) soon to be XH to figure the split of the assets. As we sit there, he is telling me all about how upset he is that a friends father has died (this happened several month previous, so was not new news). The he stops and says "I don't know why I am telling you all this." I said "I am the one you told all these things to for 20 some years. Why would you stop now?" And it was exactly that. I was the familiar face he always told these things to. It meant zero to him. Zilch. Nada. I was just familiar. I could have been rude, but chose not to, there was no point in being rude. He had no concept of how what he had done had devastated me. He did not care, all he cared about was himself.

This in a nutshell. "I was only thinking of myself."

This is your W. It's not good or bad that she "reached out" to you. She just needed someone to talk to, you know her and her mother, you are familiar. She needs to manage her image that she is not a bad person. That's all it is.

Only on paper she is.

As to you, respond if that is who you are and it does not hurt you. If it hurts you, do not respond. Place zero importance on anything she does, because guaranteed, she is placing zero importance on you.

Don't I know this now. Only contacts when she wants something. I am just a piece of crap in her life.

This is a really good one for everyone, OffRoad. Thanks.

Pacman, as to the mother-in-law, I'm trying to think of what I'd do if I heard that my SIL were in some related situation. My relationship with my SIL never grew to the point where we would just chat or support each other on our own. If I did, I'd reach out to her directly, rather than through my W. But I don't have that relationship, so I wouldn't reach out. If W asked me to support her (W) through a crisis with SIL, I don't think I would. At least, not at this stage in MLC. W chose to abandon my support for her, and she certainly isn't supporting me emotionally, so no dice. That may sound petty, but I think it's realistic.

JB

You are 1000% right. She abandoned us and doesn't deserve any support.  As for MIL I will have some interaction with her but not because of W.


Starting to realise that it could never be a marriage again after her deception. I would probably be thinking will she do it again. If she cut contact with him at my insistence but as she has now gone back talking to him (and probably more) the 2 broken turds can have each other. Maybe she can move in with him and his ex wife.....

[Treasur]

Lot of wisdom in OR’s post, Pac. Particularly about familiarity and choosing your response to situations based on what works for you regardless of what your wife says, thinks or wants.
Visit with your ILs or don’t based on what feels appropriate to you......
Find some neutral language, if you want to, to respond to texts from your wife. Ok, thanks for letting me know, hope all goes well, sorry to hear that......even an appropriate emoji lol, bc less is more now....much as you have done actually....buts it’s ok too to ignore them if you have nothing to say and there is not a specific question.

Slight tangent....the tone of your posts sound increasingly angry, frustrated and resentful. Which is of course completely normal and understandable.
However....
You might want to use the Rule of 3 a bit (hours/days) bc anger can drive our reactions in a way that wouldn’t be the case if we took a beat to calm down and then decide. Plus anger and resentment can seep its’ way out into other relationships and interactions in ways that aren’t always helpful. Don’t get me wrong....there is nothing wrong with feeling anger....but you still have plenty of choices about what you DO regardless of how you feel. Not always easy to see in the moment but it’s the difference between Reacting and Responding. And that is also what begins to unhook us from the emotional rollercoaster of feeling attached to someone who has fundamentally and unilaterally changed the nature of the relationship. That space between Feeling and Doing is where you get to decide what is best for you in any given situation and where you take your power back by taking responsibility for your own actions bc you consciously chose them.
Jmo.

[Pacman]

Lot of wisdom in OR’s post, Pac. Particularly about familiarity and choosing your response to situations based on what works for you regardless of what your wife says, thinks or wants.

Not my wife anymore. She is an alien to everyone except her AP.

Visit with your ILs or don’t based on what feels appropriate to you......

It's so hard to see them. Ex SIL lives 2 doors down, Ex MIL lives behind me, Ex Niece in law lives next door.

Find some neutral language, if you want to, to respond to texts from your wife. Ok, thanks for letting me know, hope all goes well, sorry to hear that......even an appropriate emoji lol, bc less is more now....much as you have done actually....buts it’s ok too to ignore them if you have nothing to say and there is not a specific question.

I'm getting better at neutral language but it makes stuff all difference. If I knew it was a sexual relationship between him and her I could cut ties quite easily but will NEVER know the truth.

Slight tangent....the tone of your posts sound increasingly angry, frustrated and resentful. Which is of course completely normal and understandable.
However....
You might want to use the Rule of 3 a bit (hours/days) bc anger can drive our reactions in a way that wouldn’t be the case if we took a beat to calm down and then decide. Plus anger and resentment can seep its’ way out into other relationships and interactions in ways that aren’t always helpful. Don’t get me wrong....there is nothing wrong with feeling anger....but you still have plenty of choices about what you DO regardless of how you feel. Not always easy to see in the moment but it’s the difference between Reacting and Responding. And that is also what begins to unhook us from the emotional rollercoaster of feeling attached to someone who has fundamentally and unilaterally changed the nature of the relationship. That space between Feeling and Doing is where you get to decide what is best for you in any given situation and where you take your power back by taking responsibility for your own actions bc you consciously chose them.
Jmo.

You are right. My anger has taken over due to the betrayal and hurt I feel.
 I seriously just want to pack my $h!te and move away from everything...sons and grandbabies included. It all hurts so much when this should have been one of "our" greatest times of "our" lives.
I'm not living for "me" at the moment. Just trying to survive and breathe. But I can feel that a major breakdown is on the cards.

[MadLuv]

I agree with all others. If you were close it will be for you and you alone to visit and have those moments. No one should take away your ability to spend time with those that have meant so much in your life in their darkest hours. I would visit with no hesitation.

[Treasur]

I'm getting better at neutral language but it makes stuff all difference. If I knew it was a sexual relationship between him and her I could cut ties quite easily but will NEVER know the truth.

Actually I think you are pretty good at it, Pac, much better than I was at your stage.
But
What I am trying to say is that the purpose is NOT what you said here.
It’s about YOUR emotional stability and wellbeing. It’s about mitigating more damage to you from the sheer WTFness of it all.
Bc of this.....

I can feel that a major breakdown is on the cards.

And that’s what we want you to be able to avoid.
Bc not one thing in your life will be made better by that, regardless of what happens with your marriage.
Therefore, you need to prioritise whatever you need to do to avoid that. Little breakdowns are ok, well they suck but they won’t derail your life.....a big one can.

I can see that you are angry, frustrated and a bit black/white right now in some of your thoughts. Which is normal but not so helpful perhaps? Bc the truth is rarely so black/white and there are things you think and feel now that you will not always think/feel, believe me. And the bigger truths tend to have a way of coming out in the wash over time.  Imho you probably know enough based on your w’s actions to know that you are in a s$itstorm, right?

There are plenty of things that I and others could suggest that would help you to prioritise your level of stress and wellbeing right now. If that’s helpful, we’ll be happy to share our experience of what worked and what didn’t for us.
More importantly though, what do you think you need to do? What do you need to do more of and less of, do you think?

[MadLuv]

Pacman- I had a little mini breakdown this weekend after S28 accident. It was actually a life changer. I just let everything out. All the sadz and madz that were built up and then was like WTF to be honest. This is what this is doing to me??? Nooooo, I have to get my $hitzzzzz together. I am better than this.

Sometimes a mini breakdown and release can be a recharge. A eye opener to the changes needed. For me a mini WAKE CALL that I don’t want to lose myself. This is such a crazy thing and who wouldn’t feel a little off the rails dealing with the insanity of it all.
Then you remember—— it’s them no me. It’s them not me!!!