[xyzcf]

Got a message from her this morning asking if it was OK for her to come and visit boys (19 and 22) and grandchildren?
She saw pics of the room I'm building for granddaughter and responded with a heart emoji.

Not sure how I feel about this.

Might be cake eating??

I think that sometimes we overthink things and read into their actions things that in actuality are not at all what their actions mean.

MLCers do change, but not completely. Many still wish to see their kids and grandchildren as well as live a different life that they feel they must have. Some MLCers are even comfortable seeing us (much more comfortable than we are seeing them) because in their minds, they think this is best and often they cannot see that this is not what we desire.

This hurts us deeply. If they want to be gone, then go and leave us alone once and for all......but it doesn't work that way unless they are a vanisher.

I don't see her wanting to see her kids and grandchildren as cake eating. By putting it out to you, she is actually asking you if it is ok, so in some ways, she is being somewhat respectful.

It is so hard to know what boundaries need to be in place. I did not see my husband for 19 months, if he needed to come pick something up from our home, I would arrange a time when he could come and I would be out of the house, even going so far as to ask him to text me when he was done and leaving. It was too hard for me to physically be in his presence.

With time, as I healed, and I might say a great deal of time, years really, I am able to be with him without it causing me to disintegrate as it once did.

It is tricky for you because the kids and grandchildren live with you so it's their home as well and with the babies, there might not be a "better" place for them to see her.

I know that you are feeling pretty bad and that is the way it is right now but it will not always be this way.

She just may not see it as you do..in that she has made a decision that she feels is right for her and so is not caught up in the emotional distress from the one who has been abandoned, rejected and betrayed.

I could accept it on face value and "if" she turns up while I'm there I can display some of the changes I've made, not that she will believe them anyway.

I may be off base here but this sounds to me that you feel that somehow the changes you have made will affect her one way or another.

Remember, this is not about you and not about your marriage, it really isn't so any changes are for your own sake, not for her to see or not see if that makes sense..because it won't change a darn thing.

My own way of dealing with my daughter and this broken family is to consider what works best for her. Our situation was rather unique because for many years we all lived in separate countries. But I am not sorry for each time I have helped to make something happen so that her dad can visit with her, and even be included in special times in her life...as I look back, it took a great deal out of me in the early days to do that, but I do know she appreciates that I could include him in our lives for many many reasons.

[Pacman]

I think that sometimes we overthink things and read into their actions things that in actuality are not at all what their actions mean.

MLCers do change, but not completely. Many still wish to see their kids and grandchildren as well as live a different life that they feel they must have. Some MLCers are even comfortable seeing us (much more comfortable than we are seeing them) because in their minds, they think this is best and often they cannot see that this is not what we desire.

Unless she is a freaking idiot she knows how much I am hurt over her choice.

This hurts us deeply. If they want to be gone, then go and leave us alone once and for all......but it doesn't work that way unless they are a vanisher.
I don't see her wanting to see her kids and grandchildren as cake eating. By putting it out to you, she is actually asking you if it is ok, so in some ways, she is being somewhat respectful.

Nothing respectful in asking me if she can visit the kids in the house she left. In bold this in a nutshell.

It is so hard to know what boundaries need to be in place. I did not see my husband for 19 months, if he needed to come pick something up from our home, I would arrange a time when he could come and I would be out of the house, even going so far as to ask him to text me when he was done and leaving. It was too hard for me to physically be in his presence.

I did just that last week when she collected more of her gear. And now all of a sudden she wants to visit the kids?

With time, as I healed, and I might say a great deal of time, years really, I am able to be with him without it causing me to disintegrate as it once did.

Yeah I know but geez every time I think I'm getting better at detachment she does something like this.

I know that you are feeling pretty bad and that is the way it is right now but it will not always be this way.
She just may not see it as you do..in that she has made a decision that she feels is right for her and so is not caught up in the emotional distress from the one who has been abandoned, rejected and betrayed.

She would have to be blind to not know how much it is crapful.

I may be off base here but this sounds to me that you feel that somehow the changes you have made will affect her one way or another.

Remember, this is not about you and not about your marriage, it really isn't so any changes are for your own sake, not for her to see or not see if that makes sense. .because it won't change a darn thing.

Yes you are right. I devoted 23 years of my life to this person and whilst I made mistakes (hey no one is perfect) I am not a quitter who walks away from his family for some cheap ass scumbag.
If the things she didn't like and tells me the reasons for leaving aren't there anymore......I know, I'd have to prove over time.  Or is it all just BS on her part?
Then I'd be better off not having anything to do with her especially if she is still in contact with AP.
Well it should be about the marriage or she can get on her horse and ride off into the sunset of schmoopie land with that home wrecking turd.

As for other questions that have been asked I will attempt to get back to them this week.

Thanks all.

[xyzcf]

We are deeply, deeply traumatized by what they did. Our fight/flight/freeze response is on high alert..what next will they do???

I was driving today, listening to a CD (I have a 20 year old sports car that only has a radio and CD player so I listen to old time favourites as I tool around), quite oblivious until I hear a song that has the OW's name in it....and quickly fast forward to the next tune. After so many years, her name causes an alarm in me that has certain physical responses like increased heart rate, dry mouth, feeling like I am on alert..this is years after BD.

Our reactions are very real and I didn't realize until years after BD that I had PTSD. At first I thought, ok so he left me..big deal, I'll survive only it wasn't that simple.

That you can express how you feel is a good thing PacMan. Focus on you, your feelings and what eases things for you.

One of the many good suggestions my therapist made was to freeze frame what was happening, make the picture smaller in my mind, decrease the sound, mute the color until it became tolerable..until I could breathe normally.

Over time, we find what brings us back to equilibrium.

I don't know, I have a sense that my husband is not aware of the hurt and pain he caused to either me or our daughter..because like the teenager he is, only his "happiness" matters. Doesn't excuse what he has done, either that or he compartmentalizes the whole thing so he doesn't have to see the damage that he has done.

[Thunder]

Pacman I have been reading along for awhile and I just wanted to say...I understand how you are feeling.   Maybe you are not in a place yet where you can have her visit your home and there is nothing wrong with that.

You are working on getting to a good place and by allowing her to come over now may not be the best thing for YOU....and that's ok.  You deserve this time to try to heal.

There is always the option of telling your kids she wants to see them and the grandkids and it may be best for them to arrange something outside of your home to do that if they want.  Maybe go where she is living.  There is no reason for her to come to your home.

No it's not cake eating but it is sure not understanding, or being sensitive, to the hurt she has caused you.
In true MLC form. 

[Pacman]

It's like she is reading from the same playbook.
"It's time for you to heal" is exactly what she said.

Could I take it as an opportunity to be the lighthouse?

She sent the message to DIL last Thursday which also happens to be the day W's mum went in for a brain scan for dementia.....??

Could it be anchor checking?

Is she possibly seeing  what she is losing?

So many thoughts arrrrrrrrgh

[JohnnyBravo]

I can't imagine how tough it is being intertwined with family. Her contact could be any of those things, or none of those things. We have more and quicker access to information than ever before, but the one thing we can't figure out is what's going on in the LBS head.

You can be the lighthouse whenever you have the strength to. She doesn't need to see you be the lighthouse; It's more of a decision you make. But your kids will certainly see it, and your growth and strength will benefit them directly.

[Pacman]

I can't imagine how tough it is being intertwined with family. Her contact could be any of those things, or none of those things. We have more and quicker access to information than ever before, but the one thing we can't figure out is what's going on in the LBS head.

I can tell you what is going on in the LBS head......It's the MLC head that is the one that is unknown.....Hahahaha

[Thunder]

Pacman you need to be the lighthouse for you and your kids right now.  It won't matter to her.  Nothing you do will matter to her.

Trust me your family needs you way more than she does.
She needs space to fight her demons all by herself, with no help from you.
Just let her go.

No she is not anchor checking.  She just feels entitled to do what she wants and thinks you will just allow it.

There may be a time when she will notice all the good changes you have made, but it's not now.
Just keep making them for you and your kids and grandkids and some day she may notice them.
But by then you just may not care.

[JohnnyBravo]

I can tell you what is going on in the LBS head......It's the MLC head that is the one that is unknown.....Hahahaha

I work in a world of acronyms, you'd think I'd get this one right! I'll leave the error in place so your comment makes sense.

Thanks!

JB

[Pacman]

Pacman you need to be the lighthouse for you and your kids right now.  It won't matter to her.  Nothing you do will matter to her.

Trust me your family needs you way more than she does.
She needs space to fight her demons all by herself, with no help from you.
Just let her go.

No she is not anchor checking.  She just feels entitled to do what she wants and thinks you will just allow it.

There may be a time when she will notice all the good changes you have made, but it's not now.
Just keep making them for you and your kids and grandkids and some day she may notice them.
But by then you just may not care.

So it doesn't matter whether I let her or not?
What if it isn't MLC?
I "think" it is, based on some of her actions and comments and "seems" to be following the script SO......I need to let go and see what she wants whilst working on myself?....even though my ultimate goal is to work things out.
I don't believe she is a bad person but made a "bad" choice.
By allowing her to visit the children at home am I making myself a door mat?
The hardest part is letting go and seeing someone you still love destroy themselves and their family for a lecherous opportunistic filth bag who lives with his ex wife and posts all sorts of conspiracy theories.

I have so much to learn and develop in this sadly.