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Author Topic: My Story Sometimes your heart needs more time

M
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My Story Sometimes your heart needs more time
OP: November 19, 2021, 03:56:28 AM
New beginnings and time to put in play all the good advise
Sometimes your heart needs more time to accept what your mind already knows!!  Have come to the conclusion that if those closest to me can treat me so poorly they have to live with that. I have nothing eating at my soul.

Let’s so this damn thing!! No contact is my goal. Thank you to everyone who keeps trying to get me to see the light and encouraging me to be accountable for my own movement towards healing.

Link to old thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11846.0
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 04:21:54 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#1: November 19, 2021, 04:31:14 AM
Yes it does, Tornup ((hug))
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#2: November 19, 2021, 05:34:06 PM
I do apologize if I ouched-you Tornup , NEVER would that be intentional. I think that many LBS ( including myself ) do try to deliver "truth-darts " or "reminder-darts" hoping it somehow jolts them into change or back into reality. Sending pictures or memories seems to be an action with that intent. To remind him of you or your family to see if it creates change . If they were sent at his request perhaps I am wrong about that and I apologize of course. I curious why he would ask you for them... maybe he is trying to give you mixed messages, a very common tactic. 

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I am trying very hard to wrap things up, so I can move on.
.

I know you are , but I suspect it will takes years . Many years . And it will be internal emotional changes , awakenings and such ( so I have been told) and unlikely to come as a result of physical actions. I feel like I will never fully recover no matter how long I live.

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I think for me my kids are grown, but still OUR kids. It is very hard not to discuss them with him when things come up. WE are their parents. If they were small that would not be questioned, but for me kids are kids. I know I need to get past that. They are a shared thing that I cant disconnect.
.

I respect that you feel this way and it makes sense , it does. I experienced it 100% the opposite . I am always amazed at how different everyone is and how our reactions are sometimes opposite. No right or wrong ..just different.  I felt like they were MY girls. Mine alone and that he had walked away from his family...I did not want to include him in any "family" discussions or happenings. And I did not.  My mind was not  functioning on full throttle at the time... and if he "wanted to get out of his marriage " , I made sure he stayed out. I cannot describe the anxiety or trauma to me if I had to see him. I felt like I was going to die.  My girls were adults , the youngest ( at home) was 23. If they needed him for any reason at all they could contact him directly and not even tell me about it. I am not part of that relationship and I did not want to be. I do not believe any of them contacted him, but I am not certain.  I would not have contacted him for ANY reason on the planet. The pain of doing so would have been profoundly harmful to me.

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I have stated many times I get up and then down. I never try to hide that. That is why I journal so much. As stated I get to a place where I think ok…I’m doing better and then whammmm. I don't try to put up a front. I do feel better and then I don't. I am fully aware of my roller coaster ride. If I was just dealing with him I would not feel so beaten up.
.

This is me to an absolute T.  I still is at times and that is the truth . And I have been at this for years.  I am sometimes shocked at the intensity of emotion when I am circling the rabbit hole. Still.  It still hurts like nothing I have ever experienced...and then I feel "better" and then back into anger and hurt.  Less often , but it is still there . I get it.

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As far as the kids. Where I feel blame on him is he is not here. They are stressed and I am getting those ramifications. It is a ripple affect of the destruction left behind, so do I blame him? Yep!!!  Plain and simple. I do
.

I understand this feeling completely . The ripple effect is beyond anything anyone can imagine..until you live it. I still feel the effects and see it in my daughters. I was once told that any decisions I make about my marriage will affect 7 generations.  I experienced pure black hatred for my husband on more than 1 occasion.  The emotional reactions seem to be endless .

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I am struggling. He just moved in with OW. On anniversary of leaving and right before holidays. It’s been a lot. I can only do my best. I will say I am sleeping better and I don’t think about what he is doing with her. I do miss our friendship and I think that is where I struggle with the cut off as he is open to a friendship and I know that. I am the one saying we cant be friends and I know we arent. It is just hard as everyone knows
.

I believe that few people in the real world understand the suffering of the LBS. Enough suffering to change every aspect of who we are, to be diagnosed with PTSD and all that is involved with that, to suffer such stripping of your self-esteem and your basic belief and trust in others ...all gone. To feel the loss of someone that you slept skin to skin with for sometimes decades...it is utterly shattering.  It is just so very hard . Being his friend?  Absolutely not . Does he think you would go for coffee as if none of this happened ?  Coffee behind the OW's back?   NO.  He needs to feel some loss as well..

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I wish he would change his number to make it easier on me. Believe me I have asked and he refused. He said I am not going to change my number or block you. It’s not his job to give me the will power and strength, but it would be easier for me. Not going to lie.
.

Oh my !  It is not his job for sure. Its for you to gift yourself with healing time, to allow him to feel the consequences of his decisions long term and to move forward and out of the drama. You can and will do it ..takes time and practise in a way .  It does become easier it just takes sooo long.  Keep going Torn !
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#3: November 20, 2021, 03:23:36 AM
Barbie-
I appreciate and and all truth darts, always. Sometimes in my journalling I forget to put it all out there. In our discussions he had asked for videos, pictures, etc. i just didn’t feel like he deserved to have any of those since he walked away. Then I rethought it. Nope, he can have them. Does he give me mixed messages? Beyond belief he does. His answers on everything change like wind and he does not want to totally let go.

On the kids. I often refer to then as my kids. I am trying always to be the bigger person and get out of that mind set. Not for him,  but for them. I have my own residuals from my parents divorce. I can totally see the 7 years ramifications.

You know he talked a few weeks back on his birthday how he slept through it. She bought a small cake and a new briefcase and then felt the need to explain why he needed a new one. As I had bought him a very expensive one. He said it had started getting holes. In that conversation I said I thought you needed a new ipod. I assume d she would get you one? He said no. I don have access to our shared music. I wont give him the sign on. Why? Because with apple music if he has the sign on he can also see my text messages and read them.

So, I bought him a new ipod and put all the music on it. Sent it to him. He paid for his music and it is important to him. He has playlists that he listens to in different modes of his depression. He over paid his alimony to me and I thought ok. I will use that and get him his music back. I told him now to create his own account going forward and anything he buys can be added going forward. It is my last gift to him.

I’m ready to move on. He said he will message me and let me know when he gets it. I will not respond when he does. I’m really ready to cut the cord on this attachment. I made a list of the unforgivable things he has done vs how he could have done it that would have been more respectful to me. It is now my reminder that he had choices and I want no part of a person that would treat me with so little respect.

I cant get back the last year of trying to be there for him. Where has he been? No where for me??? I am finally grasping that. He made choices. He is with someone that is just as damaged and so below him. Who they are with?? Gross. Honestly. I am a great gal. Attractive, intelligent, well liked. He knows my worth. I am not an enabler, but she is. He can sink in the pool he is swimming in. For me I think it would be very hard to ever take him back. I just dont see him in the high regard that he was. He is no longer the sweet and loving man I married and who he chooses to be with is not something I want to move past.

I was talking with some gf’s and told them the OW kind of reminds me of the gf that cheated on him in college and told her bf that my XH was bad in bed. He found letters. It really messed him up. I think he is trying to recapture and fix that old aspect of his life ( in all honesty) I think he is dealing with old wounds in the most unhealthy way. It’s not working.

He does need to live with his decisions. I am going to leave him to it. I am too good for all of this. I dont want drama and I dont want disrespect from th one person that I deserve nothing but respect from. Nah’s book truly was a live changer. I saw him, my kids and myself in a new light. He is now not a person that is worthy of anything from me. I dont know if he wiil feel my loss. He is so far down the rabbit hole and so weak. One thing I know is that I have done everything I can. It is all on him to deal with his past hurts. I am going to hold my head up high and move on for me. Frankly I no longer care if he sees the light. His light for me has dimmed beyond repair.

I guess we will see where his story goes. I will no longer have much insight into that. His choice and my decisions now. I am taking control of me. I am truly at a place of meh. I dont hate him, but I also dont feel love for him anymore. That is hard to say. It took my sons accident and a mini break down o get here, but as my therapist said “ you give so much and you aren’t getting anything back. He doesnt love himself. He is incapable of loving anyone else” I see that now.

I will leave him to his life and his choices. As he has said “ I appreciate everything, I just dont feel I deserve any of it. I’m not worthy of you” he is right. Where he is…he does not deserve me. I am way to good for him. He has lost so much more than me and where he sits right now is a little pathetic I’m just to strong of a person to be with someone so weak and damages. He has to find his own way and I am no longer going to stand in his way. I need to get back to ME!!

I am Flying out today with my son and friends to the chiefs game. I will have a blast. I am going to come home and start making a list and plan for my future. I may be ready to sell the house I love. Not because of him, but because frankly I dont know if I want to be where he left me. I think it is an anchor for him. I need to not be his anchor.

Thank you Barbie. I appreciate all advise and insight. You have No idea. I dont know where I would be without it. I think you are going to see a whole new Torn. I think I found my worth again and I am ready to start living and see where my story goes…he has said “ he cant go back to the way it was” he wants his old life back, but he knows it is gone. He doesn’t seem to see a new life with me or our family. He is living in what was and wallowing in it. He is right on one thing. There is no going back to what was.
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 04:16:47 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#4: November 20, 2021, 07:13:56 AM
Have fun at the football game with your friends.

My comment after reading your latest post is that of course we are "good enough", more than good enough.....which always brings me back to MLC 101.....this is not about me, this is not about our marriage.

It's not about the OW either.

Something is broken inside them , and for what ever reason ( I have yet to see any pattern of those who make it through) many never resolve their crisis.

I still would accept my husband back into my life but that is a personal choice. Not as he is.....but what he could be. After so many years and COVID, the loneliness I feel is taking its toil.

Each of us makes that decision for ourselves. Some go on to find another....I just am happy to be at peace with the life I have (which is very good in many ways).

We really have no idea what the future holds do we? So we focus on the here and now, without too much projection for  tomorrow.

At least that is what works for me.

Have a good weekend!

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#5: November 21, 2021, 05:31:23 PM
Chiefs won! Yay. Had a good time with my son and his 2 friends this weekend, however a few drinks in on tailgating my son told me his sister said that she did not think she would be allowed to let her son around me anymore. She was not comfortable as I had started smoking.  So, I quit smoking 16 years ago. I did just start smoking a little in last 2 weeks, but only do it on back porch and of course would not smoke with my grandson.

My son ( god bless him) told his sister that their father chews so much tobacco that he shouldn't have jaws and he is sure I will not stick with smoking and she was ridiculous. It is getting a little unsettling that their father is a serial cheater and a sexual harrasser, but because I have had a few cigarettes I am a problem.

Breathe in Breath out…. You can not make this up!!!

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« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 06:05:36 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#6: November 23, 2021, 03:46:22 AM
I am doing so much processing lately. Reading others stories and waking up in my own right and getting out of my own fog. I am going to continue to read all your stories and try to live and learn through all of you. What a crazy ride this is.

I myself have a lot of hope that I am headed into a much better place of my own clarity. Thank you all for continuing to share your lives. It really does allow us all to not feel alone and bring some sanity in this insane situation.

As Pink says… No one's handing you the keys or a book with all the rules
The little that I know I'll tell to you
When they dress you up in lies and you're left naked with the truth
… You throw your head back, and you spit in the wind
Let the walls crack, 'cause it lets the light in
Let 'em drag you through hell
They can't tell you to change who you are
That's all I know so far
And when the storm's out, you run in the rain
Put your sword down, dive right into the pain
Stay unfiltered and loud, you'll be proud of that skin full of scars
That's all I know so far
That's all I know so far



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« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 03:49:40 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#7: November 26, 2021, 04:35:25 AM
Journalling

Spent Thanksgiving just reading and relaxing. S28 was home, but has a limited food list of things he will eat ( due to a childhood illness, long story) so there was no food cooked. D30 did not reach out and I am not contacting her as she has asked for her space.

XH spent Thanksgiving with OW and her 2 daughters at what used to be our condo. I wonder why this family doesn’t wonder why this man is not with his own children? So many red flags, but goes to show you the damaged OW and family he is attaching to. I can not imagine how strange it would be to spend a traditional holiday with 3 people that were strangers not to long ago.

Maybe it is not strange at all. Maybe that is the escape and avoidance they want. Im not going to lie. It makes me a little nauseous thinking about it. Thinking he could have been with his own kids. It really does bring to reality just how messed up his mind is and there is no real light showing through yet. 

Good news is I made it through. Quit my smoking of 2 weeks and now trying to hope that Christmas will be better. I have always been a huge decorator and planner. These holidays are just a reminder of how much these MLC’ers let go of and the impact. I am hoping for better days ahead with D30. I am grateful for S28. He is working through his own depression on this situation and also has so much clarity on the what is happening.

I know bottom line I have been a good mom. I know my D30 is taking her Dads absence out on me. I am trying to hope for the best, but I can not be the recipient of her anger for him. I am trying to find a way to reach her and also not be a punching bag. She as I have said has never been an easy gal to reason with. I wont give up on trying a way to mend what he has broken. Hoping with time things will all start to fall in the place.

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« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 04:50:38 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#8: November 26, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Quote
I can not imagine how strange it would be to spend a traditional holiday with 3 people that were strangers not to long ago.
.

I cannot either. Not in a million years will we ever understand how this happens. Even if we live to be a thousand . It is a mental place that seems to feel no conscience or sense of wrong doing ...if they think it is "wrong" at all. Thats assuming they are even "thinking" period. I have to say that this was one of the hurdles that bothered me for a very very long time and still there is no way that it sits right.

My H left town during the time he was out of our home. He had quit his job ( along with quitting his marriage) and he moved about 4 hours north to his brothers town. But he came back to our town most weekends. So when he drives into our city he does not come "home" , he goes to the OW's home and stays there most of the weekends. She lives maybe 10 minutes from my house.

He walks into an apartment  instead of his 3000 square foot Victorian home where he owns not one thing, has no belongings there, sleeps in a room that would be completely foreign, follows another families ( she had an adult son there) way of doing things and is with a "women" that is a drunk , on probation and is the giddiest nul brain I have ever met. 

Even to get in a shower that was not mine feels very weird to me ...so waking up with a new person in a new home and trying to belong ...? Just beyond crazy . Was it that easy to just switch your life completely and utterly around ...new people, new home, new routines?  He made it look very very easy.  How does one actually get that sick?   Or is it us that believe it is unimaginable?

I asked him this question when he first returned. I likely asked 100 times . He told me he simply did not give one solid firetruck where he slept...he would not have noticed any of what I question. He simply cared about nothing . Period. He could not have thought himself out of a wet paper bag ...he could not make 1 single decision. Even at his job...he quit because he could not make decisions, he could not remember anything that he had known for years.

He said "she" was better than being alone. He was 100%  positive that I no longer loved him and did not want him...even though I NEVER ever said that . She made him feel a whole list of stuff about himself. He never felt anything for her .  He also had rented a room ( I know factually that he did as I could see him paying rent on the 1st of each month as I could get into his bank account ) , so he sometimes stayed in this room. I doubt that because he simply could not stand being alone. 

No explanation will ever make me understand it and I no longer think about other than when others talk about it.  I can still get a shot of adrenaline when I remember .  Hopefully we never experience such a mental collapse and scary scary trance like emotionally dead place. 
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 02:31:37 PM by Thunder »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

M
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  • Posts: 1336
  • Gender: Female
Sometimes your heart needs more time
#9: November 26, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
Barbie- so much similarities except my XH has been pretty upfront as it has progressed. He is confusing. It is like he know what is happening and its not right, but he doesn’t see any other way but to see it through. 

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and he moved about 4 hours north to his brothers town. But he came back to our town most weekends. So when he drives into our city he does not come "home" , he goes to the OW's home and stays there most of the weekends. She lives maybe 10 minutes from my house. He walks into an apartment  instead of his 3000 square foot Victorian home where he owns not one thing, has no belongings there, sleeps in a room that would be completely foreign, follows another families ( she had an adult son there) way of doing things
Xh moved to our condo 5 hours away and drover home every other weekend and stayed with OW in her apartment. I asked if he felt excited to drive down to see her, No. He said he drove as it was a time he could concentrate on directions and get out of his head. Once he was down her apartment was like a hotel room and he was used to that from . travel. They constantly did things so they didn't have to talk. Now that she moved in with him he is working 5am to 8pm. Already in avoidance. Not sure how the Turkey day went??? Haha

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He said "she" was better than being alone. He was 100%  positive that I no longer loved him and did not want him...even though I NEVER ever said that . She made him feel a whole list of stuff about himself. He never felt anything for her
sounds like my XH. He said that she just lets him be, so better than being alone. He said when he is alone is when he thinks of ending his life. I think he has her manipulated to not ask questions and frankly as long as he is paying for expensive meals and clothes she seems willing to put up with it. There is no love there. They are both using each other.

I just will never be able to understand it. They just pile on more things to destroy themselves.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#10: November 26, 2021, 02:53:44 PM
Just to add another thought to this . Imagine actually being the OW ( sick I know) , but I imagine that everytime her new man is silent, or thinking or watching TV ...I would be wonderring what he is thinking. Did he actually erase 20, 30 or 40 years worth of memories of other Thanksgivings ?? . If he wanted to share a memory ...would he ?  With the OW? . I have thought of this many times as my H often says " remember when we did this, or that etc...".  How could he do that with the OW?.  I was with my H for 30 years when he imploded . Where do all the memories go? . Or do they just not happen? . I cannot imagine being the OW and wonderring all the time what he is thinking about.  Does that make sense ?
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#11: November 26, 2021, 03:15:54 PM
So, have had that convo many times In small increments as well. He said she talks, but he only answers what he has to and offers no more. Meaning do you have brothers or sisters? Yes. What do you have? 2 brothers. He never expands. Also, one thing I told my XH and have journaled it is how will memories go? How do you think you will feel at Thanksgiving and you are sitting around a table and noone is your family? And if they are talking about stories from the past you aren't in them and have no idea who they are talking about? The food may look the same, but it will taste different. How does that make you feel? He said,Sad.

Honestly, I hope that convo ran threw his mind yesterday!! One of those truth darts…. You cant just start over and not miss your family? Not if your a good person and he is. He has a soul. A lost one, but it is there somewhere.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#12: November 26, 2021, 05:06:43 PM
I had two thoughts reading this.

One is do you really believe what he is telling you about the OW or is he telling you what he thinks you want to hear? They are really good at fabricating and I wouldn't take everything he saying as being the truth.

The other was I was thinking about adolescence and how much seniors want to live away from home. when they finish high school..away from their parent's, any responsibilities...they want a new life and that new life seems to them to be a much better one. Certainly they party hard and explore other lifestyles that they dare not when living under their parent's roof. They may live in a crowded dorm or share an apartment with several other strangers but this is preferable to living under their parent's roof.

If you can understand why a teenager finds that appealing, perhaps it will help you ......


Tornup, you state often that he cannot possibly be happy with OW and not having the life that he had before and why would they leave?

They leave because as many of them have actually stated, they feel they will die if they stay.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 05:08:01 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#13: November 26, 2021, 05:59:10 PM
Xyzcf- agreed. I was answering on Barbies insight/questions that I had some insight from earlier convos with him. Now, as to your insight. Spot on. My XH when leaving said he didn’t want to, but if he didn’t he would die. So, you are right. Now, is he happy now? Nooooo…. I do not believe he is. I think he is just existing. I honestly believe since she moved in the pressure is on. When he could visit every other weekend and exit that may have been the college student/teenager time. Now he is back in real life. Having to answer why is he never home. Question, questions, questions…. That’s what he ran from and he is right back in it.

 On do I believe him on his sharing with her? Yes. I was married to him for 30 years and when not depressed it was like pulling teeth to get him to talk about anything in depth.  He does not want to talk about family, friends or ex girlfriends. I’m sure they have many convos on non emotional things that he talks plenty. This is unique to him before MLC. He just is a hard egg to crack. He has no friends and just doesn’t talk.

Could I be wrong? Sure… I think he felt compelled to see what this was with OW and I think either way he will find out. I personally think he regrets it already, but I believe he is to weak if he does to leave the situation and I believed they will remain together.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 07:19:58 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#14: November 26, 2021, 06:02:25 PM
It's that comment made by several MLCers..they have to leave or they would die. What does that feel like? How does that feel to live in a skin that screams leave everything you once loved behind?

No idea and I am sure it is different in each case. I would think it is terrible but so much of their normal responses are messed up that there is no way for us to really understand how they feel about anything.

That makes it very hard to deal with after so many years when you were so in sync.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#15: November 26, 2021, 08:16:20 PM
I think I had some moments recently with S28 accident and D30 behavior that I thought… I wish I could just drive off and not have to worry about anyone but me. It was the first time I felt so overwhelmed that I finally could see a little of what he feels on escaping. I have no idea what it is like to not be able to talk anlut your issues and let them build so much that you basically crack and cant stand to be in the skin your in.

My XH says he cant stand to look in the mirror.  Cant live with the mistakes he has made. I think although you carry that with you…not how he see’s it. This person is not aware of his mistakes and wrong doings and it is his chance to start over and be seen with fresh eyes. The problem is. You cant escape yourself
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#16: November 27, 2021, 01:04:00 AM
I always wonder what that truly means, "I have to leave or I will die." I met a woman once who tried to explain it to me. She said she felt like she was suffocating. When I asked what made her feel that way, was it maybe responsibilities, or something about her life, she could not answer. But I could tell by the look on her face that at least the recollection was terrifying. I know I have no frame of reference for it, nor do I believe I could ever understand it as it was explained at the time. Sure, I've had days when I want to run away. Days when I have crumpled into a heap on the floor in despair and found myself still there the next morning. But it never lasts and I pull myself up by my bootstraps (yet again) and motor on. I cannot imagine what could weigh on you so badly in what appeared a normal life that you feel crushed under the weight of it so much you would hurt people you once loved. I get concerned for my son since I have no idea how it comes about.

Some things we just cannot truly understand, much as we would like to. We just have to accept that this is what it is right now and make our choices based on our situation and how we choose to live our lives. What the other person says or does, only they know for sure what they mean. And sometimes, that is only maybe.
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When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#17: November 27, 2021, 06:19:07 AM
OR- yes, another mystery as I believe each ones is different, but in MLC world all have some similarities as well. For my XH he did not have the coping mechanisms to handle the deaths of our D14 and his father within 3 months of each other and also a high pressure job. He already had low self esteem and I think being in a position which garnered attention from females was the start. His EA were all women who came to him with issues at work. He became the white knight and realized quickly that he was out of his head for those moments and the moments escalated.

Once he couldn’t manage and explain off to himself that “Im just helping” “it’s my job” etc he started to crack. Once it was all revealed he felt he couldn’t be the man to us ( his family) that he once was. He said” I cant fix this” “ you all will never see me the same way”  He then decided he is the worst person he knows. So, how can he fix it??? He starts with someone who knows nothing and he rebuilds himself to be the man he wants to be seen as. He picks a desperate woman who he can shower with things and ahe and her kids are in awe.

He picked a woman however that is using him. He isnt getting much in return. He is giving his wallet out for what’s missing in life. That will only work so long. At some point everyone has to deal with their lives and if they don't they will live a miserable life of escapism.

I still knowing all I know and him being able to give me so much information it is still hard to fathom. Talk it out, get help, leaving the ones you have built a life with is beyond comprehension. Not being able to address, deal or look at yourself to the point you feel you have to start over is literally insane. My XH if he has said it once he has said it a million times “I don’t wan’t to do this, but I have to or I wont survive”  What’s even crazier. His therapist asked him why he is still here? Why hasn’t he followed through with taking his life. He said “ my wife said that our family already lost a daughter/ sister I can’t do that to this family, so I don’t want to hurt my family”  His therapist told him if your W voice telling you that then let her be that voice. Of course He has revealed I am also the voice telling him to die? He said his thoughts but my voice. So, they really are just a mumbled mess.

So….make sense of that?? They truly are just getting through moments. XH says I try not to look back or forward. I just deal with every minute as it comes. What is crazy is at the beginning of this all this that is exactly the place they leave us. Just getting through moments, but we get stronger. We are able to look back and forward, but they are still stuck in surviving moments.
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 07:26:38 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#18: December 01, 2021, 09:05:52 AM
It has been a good week. Thanksgiving without my family allowed me put a lot in perspective. I really have put so much focus on everyone else. I realize I have been a good mother and wife. It’s not my fault my XH went into his crisis and that he had to go outside our relationship for validation. I cant dummy myself down to make him feel better. To make him feel validated. He has to be his own cheerleader in life as I am in mine.

I haven’t spoken to him almost 3 weeks. I for the first time have no desire. He has not accepted his game tickets for this weekends game and they transferred back to me. I not reaching out. If he is going I guess he will have to ask for them to be transferred back. I feel he is constantly playing a baiting game with me to keep me attached. I just do not want any part of it anymore.

Another funny or strange thing. S28 sent him his new ipod through a trailer at work 2 weeks ago. X said he would let me know when he got it.Never did. S28 reached out to him and asked if he got it. He told him no that the trailers are behind. S28 looked up and the trailer had been unloaded  long time ago, so S28 seemed confused why his F would lie. For some reason he doesn't want us to know he got it. I honestly feel he just knows I will ask and then he wont have to be the one to contact. What I do know is he continues to reveal his state of mind to his kids and that is heartbreaking.

I think thanksgiving without his family was probably rough for him, but maybe not. Maybe he is living the life. The next few months will be interesting to see if he will make a more concerted effort with his own children. I really hope so. I on the other hand quit my 2 week smoking and am busy wrapping xmas gifts and really enjoying myself again.

I am once again watching some TV , reading, working on the house. I feel very calm and sleeping much better. I think my letting go of what my future was going to be and facing it’s out of my control has really taken the pressure off me to just let it evolve. I no longer have to have the perfect family or life. I just need to be happy and honestly that’s enough. It has taken a year to get to the detachment faze. It has not come easy. It has been working through pain, reality and acceptance.

 Making many mistakes, but I think I am finally here. How do I know? I dont have anxiety anymore. I am not triggered by his baiting. I am not thinking about him 24/7 and I never think of OW at all. She really is nothing. I don’t think of them as having this unbelievable life. The fairytale in my head that originally gave me anxiety. When they say you will know you will. You just dont care in the same way. Not that you dont wish things to be different, but that you accept your reality and no longer want to stand still waiting for them to come around.

We only have this one life. I have no more time for mine to be on hold. I am going to be just fine 🙂
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 09:09:47 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#19: December 01, 2021, 05:54:42 PM
Ummmmm, so my XH bought his OW a mercedes tonight? How do I know? He got free sirius radio and my email was used? He hooked up his new jeep to it a few months ago and I got an email on it and asked him to please move them to his own account. Apparently that didn’t happen and he just added another. It seems intentional. That I would get an email Congratulating me on my new Mercedes.

I kindly forwarded the email to him and stated that if he is going to buy his girlfriend a Mercedes could he please use his own email. The old me would be devastated. The new me just is ehhhhhhh.
There is nothing that can surprise me anymore. He has truly lost his mind. He could not follow the MLC script any closer.


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« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 07:26:28 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#20: December 01, 2021, 08:22:36 PM
Good grief! Can you contact Sirius and tell them you've been spoofed?
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#21: December 01, 2021, 08:51:47 PM
Right? I am calling them tomorrow. He opted out of emails, so got that notification just a bit ago. I emailed him back and told him he needed to remove my email just not opt out and that I would be calling them tomorrow.

The man is working 7 days a week from 5 am to 8pm and buying her clothes and cars to keep her happy. I think next will be a puppy, then a house and marriage. I think he is on the fast track to destruction while spending no time with her.

I have to say I called my sister tonight and we both laughed so hard at all this. I mean you can not make it up. How he can’t see she is using him for his money and how she can’t see a very depressed man barely hanging on. They are really just two damaged souls. I can’t even imagine where this ends, but I don’t think it will be pretty. At least not for them.

He cancelled his NFL game this weekend. So, I am going with a girlfriend now. So, very excited I am going to my six game this season. Little expensive flying back and forth, hotels and rental cars, but I don't care. I deserve it and it brings me so much happiness. He can enjoy cruising in his new Mercedes. I will be tailgating and enjoying multiple friends this weekend. Including the ones he was to go with and still gave his tickets to.

 This couple was a couple we hung out with early in our marriage and worked with. We have known them for decades. I think he backed put for that reason. To much reality with me not there and trying to fake happiness. I will enjoy seeing them. Im sure he will be on edge wondering if a few beers in divulge anything he doesn’t want me to, but that won’t happen. I’m not on any mission to destroy him. It’s not about him anymore. Except to him. I am all about ME!!
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 08:56:33 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#22: December 02, 2021, 12:45:02 AM
1) You are assuming that, because you got an e-mail that says your new Mercedes was signed up that he bought the OW a new Mercedes and signed it up... ASS-U-ME nothing.

You'd be better served to ASS-U-ME your account has been compromised and that someone somewhere is using it and taking the appropriate actions (Maybe changing your password would be a good start?).

2) You ASS-U-ME he's backed out of the NFL game because of the other couple. Again, ASS-U-ME nothing. It serves no purpose other than to give him and OW rent-free space in your head.... He is simply not going. Who gives a flying farfinagle WHY he is not going? Not your circus, not your monkeys.

As long as you continue to speculate and monkey brain as to why and who and how instead of simply dealing with the fact that SOMEONE unauthorized is using your Sirius account and the fact that he isn't going to the game, you can not really detach and get on with your own work and your own growth and your own life...
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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#23: December 02, 2021, 03:35:34 AM
I think it is to soon in my journey to still not ask questions at times or speculate, but I am not affected in a negative way. I’m not lingering in it. I am not shedding a tear. If we all here were free and clear of the situation NOT one of us would be on this forum. So, anyone that is still here posting and commenting is because the situation is using some head space.

That is a healthy way to work through and carry on in my opinion. Acknowledge your thoughts, but don't let them consume you. So, are things still making me go????????  Absolutely, I spent 30 years with him. If he doesn't create a new account and continues to use mine, so I get notifications of his car purchases ( he did buy it) then, yes it hard not to have it be a irritant. Like I said this is the second car addition to the account he has done in the last 3 months. I already asked him to change his cars to a new account or take my email off the account ( no one compromised the account) , so I could start a new account.

I’m really good. I am in therapy and I am moving forward and enjoying myself and my friends. Huge changes are happening in me and my ability to move on and not carry the heavy burden of trying to fix this family single handed. ASS U ME is not me any longer. He does not consume my every thoughts, but things like this do jar the mindf@#kery of the situation at time. I’m sure those moments will still come, but the difference is I am not instigating them myself. They are coming at me and although it may affect me for a moment or make my mind wander for a moment it is moments and not hours or days. That is huge progress in my mind!!

So for me…. I think I will old school Helen Reddy this and be like
I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR!!!



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« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 04:15:59 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#24: December 02, 2021, 05:46:45 AM
Torn, I’m glad to hear you feel okay about things.
UM does make a very useful point though, for you, for others reading along with your thread who are at different points of their individual journey.
The only fact you know is you got an email from SiriusXM and it referenced a Mercedes. Everything else you mentioned was pure speculation: he’s buying her an expensive car to keep her happy, he’s working 7 days a week to keep her satisfied but he doesn’t even care about her, he’s fast tracking to marriage with her even though he doesn’t care about her…

You’ve mentioned you go back and read your threads to see where you’ve grown, so I say this for documentation purposes, as well as for others who are reading. Even if he tells you every single day “I don’t care about her, I’m working 24/7. I don’t feel anything…” you still don’t know what’s going on in his head. Filling in the blanks keeps focus on him and on things that cannot be controlled.

Lastly, I know it’s a hassle but you might consider getting a new email address to avoid things like this.
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#25: December 02, 2021, 06:06:37 AM
Quote
That is a healthy way to work through and carry on in my opinion. Acknowledge your thoughts, but don't let them consume you. So, are things still making me go????????  Absolutely, I spent 30 years with him.

It is. Accepting the reality of where you are imho is part of healing, as is seeing your progress as your perspective evolves. Your divorce was quick, Tornup, but in other ways you are still a relative newbie.

So what UM said was not I think meant as a criticism requiring any explanation, or Helen Reddy declaration lol, but a data point from an observer in case that is useful to you. And of course it is much easier to see the magic mindreading hat when we have long since binned our own  :) I found it genuinely constructive in my own recovery to be very precise with myself about what were observable facts and what I thought but did not actually know for sure. It’s a bit of brain retraining but it gets easier. I started saying to myself ‘I don’t know’ a lot and seeing that this was more truthful....and that in recovering from the WTF chaos, getting as close to the truth as I could mattered.....and my word, there were a lot of things I didn’t/don’t know, And it is all part of detaching our head as well as our hearts from someone else’s existence.....just takes time and practice  :) have no doubt you will get there but it might just take a bit longer than you wish  :)

Another vote here for perhaps changing some of your emails and other old connections, pain as it is, I know.  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#26: December 02, 2021, 07:53:37 AM
It is hard to block out all thoughts of them, especially when things pop up.

I still receive junk mail in his name, I have tried to get that stopped without success.

What UM is saying has a great deal of wisdom though. We really do not "know" what is going on in their lives.

Recently, I got a phone call out of the blue that lead me down the road of all kinds of things about what he was doing (which still affect me many years later...not everyone can turn off their feelings completely as some here seem to be able to do).

This week, we had dinner together and I discovered that things were not as I had imagined. The energy that I had spent "fretting" was completely unfounded and I have found that too often be the case.

I don't go "looking" for information but like you, you get a piece of mail or someone mentions something to you and our minds go crazy.

Each of us process things differently.

Continue to build a life for yourself. You are dong well with therapy, activities, getting through the holidays and recognizing how you think about things.

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#27: December 02, 2021, 08:05:12 AM
There is nothing wrong with my email. I’m not sure why I have to lose my email? Anyways he messaged and said he changed to his own email today. He said he was in a bad place but it was ‘t my problem. He is right and I did mot engage in it. I just told him I gave him a spreadsheet of all the accounts and sign ons and he needs to change emails as I do not need insight into his life as I am trying to build my own.

I do want to point out that it is constantly stated that the OW/OM is nothing. If it wasn’t them it would be someone else. They can’t love them, they don't love themselves. So, is that then speculation?? Is it only observable facts if it isnt defined by an actual thought that isnt defined?? What is the difference between me saying he doesn’t love her, his actions are MLC driven as escape and avoid . Is it my tying actual definitive thoughts to it vs what I see as comments daily that are non descriptive?

And my Helen Reddy reference was a bit of humor. Humor is everything right now. I am seeing humor in everything. I know me better than anyone knows me. I am getting to such a better place. I still appreciate everyones insights and observations. I have said it many times. Even if I don’t always agree it does make me reflect and take a look and re-look at myself and my actions, but this time???nahhhhh I don’t fully agree.

He is not himself. He is a MLC’er by the book. If he wasn’t then the situation would be unbearable. I’m glad I can think and blame it all on MLC. If I couldn’t then he would just be a total jerk I was married to for 30 years. I don’t believe that for a second. I understand my thoughts are just that. Not factual, but maybe instead of turning them into scenerio’s that I cant prove that I just need to stop that and give into the “who know’s what, why or when!!! He is A messed up MLC who doesnt know himself.  So, that I can agree on with you all!

Thank you all again….I will re-read your comments and take them to heart and continue to move forward. I really am in such a better place. I just am brutally honest in my thoughts and journalling. Im brutally honest with myself. Always…. Can I be triggered? Yep Can then situations still affect me? Yep   Am I healed? Nope, but I am headed to that place. I can see it through the clouds. It is in my sight. That is really all we need for hope :)

Thank you all again and keep them coming. Truly…you are all golden!!

 
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« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 08:26:46 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#28: December 02, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Between you and me, Tornup (and anyone else reading lol), I still get the odd what I call ‘Alice in Wonderland’ moments. Little flash memories that, no matter how hard I try, I can’t align with what my then h later became and did. The difference....and perhaps the gift of a few more years....is I don’t sort of need them as a reminder of how very WTF/MLCish it all was in the way I did, if that makes sense. And it doesn’t hurt like it once did. But there was a time when I did bc I was trying to make sense of what happened for myself. Just as you are, I’d guess.

There’s a period of time when most LBS need to ‘label’ the crazy s$it that these folks seem to do or need to believe that they know things about how the MLCers life is or isn’t. A kind of reassuring confirmation bias perhaps. And then there’s a time when it just starts to matter less either way bc it changes nothing in our own lives or spirits. That time seems to creep up a bit unnoticed often rather than being a thing one hunts down. It just starts to matter less bc other things matter more. (Not that it doesn’t matter at all, just matters less. Not sure many folks here even years on turn off all of their feelings completely after a long marriage and such a very strange life-altering experience)

We are where we are....until we find ourselves somewhere else. Normal. Our perspective evolves as we do, and of course different LBS have different vistas at different stages. And you’re doing fine for where you are from what I can read  :) but are probably also a work in progress which is why different perspectives can become more useful as you go perhaps.

But, perhaps for others reading along, it is worth flagging the difference between facts and beliefs imho bc some of our beliefs might not always be helpful or might add to our anxiety. A chum of mine here is near the end of a big renovation. She had asked her builder about where they were vis a vis the budget. He had said they were over budget but then took a week to say how much. She has had a sleepless week bc her assumption - in the absence of facts and bc she feels vulnerable - was big bucks. It turns out to be small manageable bucks. Training our eye to separate facts vs assumptions can be very useful in managing anxiety. And anxiety is a pretty common challenge for many LBS. Might not be so for you, which is great, but might be a useful learning point for someone else quietly reading along. Jmo.
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« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 08:51:14 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#29: December 02, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Thought I would stop in here and chime in with what is happening in my case.  For the first 3 years  of my H’s MLC I was obsessed with needing to know things, how he felt about OW, how he felt in general what stage he could possible be in.  All of these questions I felt that I needed to know the answer to.  To make some sense out of the chaos surrounding him.  When I started to focus on myself anxiety went away, pain lessened and it was honestly like I had a crazy uncle living in my attic and I tried to not watch or understand him because it was a disaster for me. 

My H and I are reconnecting and talking a lot now.  I’m now going back and trying to make sense of things by talking it out with him.  He sometimes has answers sometimes he doesn’t.  He can’t even make sense of a lot of his behaviors but he is trying to with therapy.  I may never get the answers I was once looking for so intently.  Who? What? When? Where? Or Why?  Many things I thought had happened he confirmed did, it doesn’t make me feel any better.  I’m learning to stop questioning it because the old anxiety bus comes rolling towards me.  I don’t need the answers anymore.  My H continues to look for answers for himself with a therapist and that is all I need right now. 

I hope you can find peace.  I hope you find yourself not needing to know how he feels or what he is doing.  You seem strong and determined, which is needed at any stage for an LBS. 

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Husband 55
Me 55
Kids 3 sons 29, 27, 25 1 daughter 20
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 33 years.  Together 35
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.

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#30: December 02, 2021, 10:22:35 AM
Quote
A chum of mine here is near the end of a big renovation. She had asked her builder about where they were vis a vis the budget. He had said they were over budget but then took a week to say how much. She has had a sleepless week bc her assumption - in the absence of facts and bc she feels vulnerable - was big bucks. It turns out to be small manageable bucks. Training our eye to separate facts vs assumptions can be very useful in managing anxiety
now that is something I can sink my teeth into!! That I can totally understand. Why let your mind wonder. What I do know is that I dont think much lately about their daily goings ons. That is where I can feel the change. The gaps of time in thoughts, but mostly when I do there is no anxiety. The problem with a fast divorce and accounts weren’t all manageable by me. Some he has to do the change. I did 95% of the divorce myself in 30 days after a 30 year marriage. So, am I triggered when I get emails on rewards for accounts he is spending or cars he is buying? I am. It is pure laziness that he hasn’t taken care of them.

What I am doing is marking them as spam and opting out. WhY this has become an issue now??? Well it is xmas time with the OW and he is taking her shopping using all those cards that haven’t been used in a year. So, I did not know that they were not changed. So, in talking with him today I asked that please refer back to my account spread sheet with sign ons and please go in and fix those.

Now, being honest… I do wonder if he is getting better or worse. If he is going to stay where he left in his mindset.  It does cross my mind here and there, but no longer with the hopes of return, but out of curiosity and hopes that he finds himself as it is hard to imagine he will never regain himself. The biggest change for me is I cant see us in the future anymore, but I hope to see him in the future at some point. Not sure that makes sense.

As I told my therapist…once I let go of the fact I cant fix what I didn’t break and it isn't my responsibility to carry all the burden it was a huge game changer for me. A pressure release. My biggest issue or question is not the relationship being over but that a person I cared for for decades doesn't seem to care about me at all. I found I don't need the answer anymore, because I know it is also an answer he asks himself with no answer. The only answer he really has is something changed in me and I am permanently broken. I believe that is one truth he believes and speaks. And with that I believe and accept it as the truth and that is allowing me to move forward. Not move on. Not quite there, but definitely on my way

I do get I have to be ok with never fully understanding the situation or getting all the answers. I am a controlling individual. A fixer, problem solver. I don’t think anything is out of my ability and reach. This one is and that has been my biggest hurdle to get past, but I am getting there. With that I also feel going forward that is going to be a huge difference in how people affect me or situations affect me in the future. I have work to do, but I see so many things I can improve on for myself.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#31: December 06, 2021, 09:32:23 AM
Another Chiefs win and another good weekend with friends. My XH co-workers who we have known for decades said when they talked to XH he told them I would be at the game with them. The W said “ great, we love tornup” That was nice to hear.

 For most part pretty good time with them. There was a moment when I was asking about The H parents. They both have dementia. He quit work and retired to take care of them. He is in a different state than his W. I said separation is hard on a marriage. She said “ oh, our relationship is golden” In my knee jerk response I said “ oh, I thought we were golden too”  I caught myself and said. It’s all good. I have nothing bad to say. Will always have love for XH.

Was a bit of a trigger. Other than that had a good time and was nice to see them, but it is ties to a past that still gives moments of nostalgia and sadness . In all honestly these little ties to the past can kind of still mess with my head. I look forward to the days these get easier. I know at some point that day will come

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« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 10:48:22 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#32: December 08, 2021, 11:13:47 AM
I ran across this and thought it was a good breakdown of some differences between remorse and regret. Which can apply to MlC’ers. If you want to know if the person who has betrayed you is capable of remorse instead of guilty regret, compare their behaviour with the lists below. There is a fundamental difference that inspires a person to betray people who trust and rely upon them to provide safety, comfort, and security, and that is whether they possess the ability to experience remorse versus regret. Regret is formed formed out of guilt; remorse is formed out of empathy.

Not all people are capable of experiencing remorse because this requires a degree of empathy that some people just don’t have (e.g., highly narcissistic people).
A Remorseful Person
1. Sees and identifies with the pain they cause to others, which inspires them to ‘make it better’. It literally hurts them to see others hurt by their actions.
2. Feels bad for others upon whom they’ve caused pain, rather than themselves.
3. Does not provide justifications for their actions or behaviours, is aware that what they did is wrong, and is capable of being accountable.
4. Does not want to repeat harmful actions or behaviours, and makes conscious and actionable efforts to avoid wronging a person in the same way again. They become self-accountable, keeping themselves in check.
5. Doesn’t just say "I'm sorry I hurt you", they back it up with actions that demonstrate how sorry they are by making restitution to those they’ve harmed. (e.g., asking “what can I do to make it better?”, truly listening and hearing the betrayed person’s response, then acting on it by delivering upon those expectations).
6. Learns from their harmful actions.
7. Is able to put their harmful actions in the past without forgetting them.
8. Develops the ability to forgive themselves through appropriate* restitution they make towards those they’ve harmed. (*appropriate means that it is restorative to the person that was harmed, not just a random ‘good deed’ that does nothing to correct the harm).
9. Actively works to correct harm they’ve caused.
10. Recognizes that responsibilities made to others is equally important as indulging self-interests, and is capable of finding ways to make these two things co-exist in harmony without harming themselves or others.
A Guilty Person
1. Sees the pain they caused to others as an aggressive action of judgment and condemnation against themselves.
2. Feel bad for themselves instead of those they have harmed.
3. Feels anger towards those they’ve harmed because their pain is evidence of the consequences of their actions (and this is something they cannot process, face, or deal with in a mature way).
4. Perceives that their bad feelings associated with guilt are situational, circumstantial, and are never their fault (e.g., “they had no other choice”).
5. Can and often will repeat their harmful actions to escape their guilt, but paradoxically this increases their guilt and shame. (e.g., continue to betray, despite harmful consequences upon themselves and others).
6. Avoids or ‘runs’ from accountability at all costs (silent treatments, ghosting, self-justification, narrative re-writing, walking out on spouses, initiating Divorces, etc.).
7. Tells those they’ve harmed, "stop making me feel bad for what I did".
8. Worries more about how the actions of individuals wounded by their own actions will make themselves appear in the eyes of others.
9. Feels their self image is being attacked by those whom they’ve wronged.
10. Doesn’t worry about others holding them accountable because they have adapted to a means of escaping self-accountability.
11. Surrounds themselves with others who buy into, and support their self-justifications.
12. Cannot face what they have done, so learning from their experience is unlikely.
13. Carries the consequences of their harmful actions around as long as they avoid dealing with them. Unaddressed guilt and shame becomes a thorn in their side, looming large, and detrimentally affects many areas of their lives until they address the toxic guilt and shame they continue to build. It is self-inflicted torture.
14. Develops self-hatred, which becomes evident to those around them and becomes a repellant rather than an attractive force.
15. Embraces self-pity and does nothing productive to correct the damage they have caused to themselves or those they have harmed. It is an endless cycle of destruction.
16. Believes that indulging self-interests supersedes responsibilities made to others, is incapable of making these two things exist in harmony, and abandons responsibilities to others in favour of their own selfish wants, needs, and desires. They refuse, or are incapable of acknowledging how their selfishness harms others.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#33: December 08, 2021, 01:14:02 PM
That’s a really good summary of remorse and guilt, Tornup. I have thought a lot about that, and how it colors my relationships (past, present, and future). I feel like part of emerging from MLC is crossing over from guilt to remorse, and then actually having the strength of character to make amends, to learn and grow from previous wrongs, and to be better than you were before as a result of what you have learned. Though I guess that isn’t specific to crisis… part of the human condition is that, though we start with different fundamental values, we are all flawed and the best we can do is try to get better over our lifetimes.

Thanks for sharing this! It’s great food for thought.
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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#34: December 08, 2021, 01:16:22 PM
Yep tornup I have posted something similar.

Example: A person who feels real remorse finds out you are having car trouble and they make an attempt to fix it for you.

The person who feels guilty will say..I'm sorry to hear you are having car trouble, but makes no attempt what so ever to help you fix it.

Big difference.  Action with one, non action with the other.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#35: December 08, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
Curiosity stated:

Quote
I feel like part of emerging from MLC is crossing over from guilt to remorse,
and

Quote
Though I guess that isn’t specific to crisis… part of the human condition is that, though we start with different fundamental values, we are all flawed and the best we can do is try to get better over our lifetimes.

During their crisis, you are not going to witness remorse. Some who get through their crisis will start to show remorse if they are reconnecting and truly are coming out the other end of the crisis.

Prior to their crisis, did that person exhibit guilt? Or remorse?  I suspect that those who are in a MLC did have the ability to express those things prior to their crisis. The crisis takes over and many of the things they would have done/said before the crisis hit, will not be apparent in the time spent during their MLC, and some of it, even when they get through, they will not have any memory of. That seems to be what I have heard and read from people who successfully negotiate the crisis and come to a resolution of sorts.

I also think that compartmentalization is the way that many cope with any feelings at all.

"In psychology, compartmentalization is defined as a defense mechanism where someone suppresses their thoughts and emotions. It is not always done consciously but this can often justify or defend a person's level of engagement in certain behaviors."Mar 19, 2019
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 02:40:58 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#36: December 09, 2021, 01:02:44 AM
My XH has been in town all week working ( after pulling out of going to the NFL game that he said he couldn’t make ) I have not seen him not talked to him.  Outside of work either have his kids. No taking them to dinner or a drinks to spend time with them. Ughhhh. I just do not get it!!!

My S28 car finally got finished for repair and took him to pick it up last night. He said work was slowing down a bit, but they had some equipment break down and it took 4 hours to repair. He said “ Dad sent out an email to the managers berating them for not getting it fixed. In the email he asked us if we were all Brain Dead”  He said, “ if I sent a note out to employees like that He would rip me apart”

I said, “ That was totally inappropriate. That email if someone reported it could get him in a lot of trouble. You’re Dad in his right mind himself would never send an email like that” let’s hope that email isn’t forwarded on to his boss. I have to say… at some point his luck is going to run out. He cant be in this high of a position and talk to employees like this. He can’t  stalk and harass women and at some point his world not blow up. What is amazing is this is the building he just transferred his OW out of to move in with him to another state ( making it public) This building gossip level about him is at a high. Im shocked he didn’t try to stay under the radar. He seems to not have any concerns or shame??

Now my concern. S28 birthday is this weekend and he is going to the game with his Dad and Uncle. I can only hope after a few beers that S28 doesn’t unleash all this built up tension. He does tend to release when drinking. He can obviously see that his Dad is lacking his normal rationale. It has to be very difficult for even grown kids to see their Dad fall off the pedestal. It’s the hardest thing. You just can’t believe this once rational man now behave so reckless and doesn’t see the ramifications even for his own kids. Adult or not. It can’t be easy watching a man behave in all the ways that are counter to what you saw all your life. As a mom that is hardest for me. I hate they are seeing it all play out.
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 01:07:36 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#37: December 10, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
More hard days ahead. My 13 year old Lab is struggling with arthritis and walking and I may have to put him down. Messaged my XH and he called crying. I told him I was going to try and hold out until after xmas and let the vet tell me what I should do. I don't want him to suffer and his meds are not working. I did not want to get to the vet and have to make that decision and then tell him after the fact.

On the call he said he wished he hadn’t made the plans to go to the basketball and football game this weekend with his brother and S28. Again heartbreaking. He said he is just tired ( mentally )
He was here in town this week. He hates to travel to all our old states we lived in where our D14 was still alive. He goes to the schools and soccer fields and it just puts him in a bad place.

I asked if now coming here where his kids are now ( which used to be the only place he felt comfort ) is another state that is a problem for him since him leaving. He said, “ it’s the worst state now”. I don’t see that he is making any progress and just can’t seem to find a way to get out of this deep depression. He did not see any of his kids (outside of brief interaction at work )while here or his grandson again. He was here for 4 days. I told him that not wanting to see his kids should tell him something is terribly wrong.
It is truly heartbreaking . I will never understand it. Totally out of my hands. I can only hope he seeks help.
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 08:50:57 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#38: December 10, 2021, 09:00:15 AM
I had a 12 year old lab (had to say goodbye to her in April  :'() and she responded very well to CBD as well as Bone broth which I bought frozen from a holistic pet food store although I think bone broth would help with homemade or what humans consume.
 "Several studies have looked at CBD’s effectiveness against arthritic pain, all with positive results. A Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine study found dogs given CBD at a rate of 4.4 mg per pound twice daily for a month showed significant improvement in pain relief and quality of life. Lead investigator Joe Wakshlag, DVM, Ph.D., DACVN, said that some dogs were initially so decrepit that their owners considered euthanasia, but that after just days on CBD they were trotting around and even climbing stairs. A Baylor University study found similar improvement, adding that CBD worked better when delivered in a liposomal formulation."

I used a product called Pet Releaf with the liposomal formulation/

Worked much better than Rimadyl that was prescribed by the vet. My vet told me he had seen good results from CBD but it was not approved by the American Veterinarian Association so he could not prescribe it for her.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#39: December 10, 2021, 09:54:16 AM
Xyzcf- Someone else told me that. Wonder how I can get it?
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#40: December 10, 2021, 10:16:00 AM
I bought it at PetCo
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#41: December 10, 2021, 12:15:54 PM
Thank you. I will try that
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#42: December 10, 2021, 12:36:22 PM
Other Pet stores will have it as well.

Check on line and see what store has it close to you.

It really helped my girl so much but it's a bit pricey.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#43: December 10, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#44: December 10, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
I ordered show hemp chew tablets. I will get some oil as well. Thank you. Hope it helps
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#45: December 11, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
When things are rough don’t linger in that land because it’s barren and nourishes no-one.
There’s another bright, bold and beautiful land up ahead, around the corner, through the tunnel. Use all of your courage to go forward through that tunnel; to round that corner.
Don’t look back.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#46: December 11, 2021, 09:19:06 AM
Beautiful, Torn.   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#47: December 11, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
I have never though to give my dog bone broth but she would love it!!!!

Bone broth in an electric pressure cooker (instant pot) is so so simple and inexpensive. I make chicken bone broth almost weekly bc my kids love chicken noodle soup. 

I freeze my stocks in silicone cube trays, then break the cubes into a ziplock bag to use as needed.
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M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#48: December 11, 2021, 06:01:22 PM
Zion- I might need that chicken soup recipe, because I have never made chicken soup, but I love it . Why have I never made it?? Oh yeahhh, my XH hated chicken noodle soup. As he did fish. I just didn’t eat so many things he didn’t like, yet now looking back at the decades he certainly never went without any food he loved that I didn’t like. I made them all. Time to start cooking!!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#49: December 12, 2021, 11:55:09 AM
Zion- I might need that chicken soup recipe, because I have never made chicken soup, but I love it . Why have I never made it?? Oh yeahhh, my XH hated chicken noodle soup. As he did fish. I just didn’t eat so many things he didn’t like, yet now looking back at the decades he certainly never went without any food he loved that I didn’t like. I made them all. Time to start cooking!!

Ahhh, yes, Torn.....we gave up so much of who we were in an attempt to soothe who they weren't.   It was always dependent upon us making it work.  Goodbye to walking on those eggshells.  The brilliant,  bright life you alluded to earlier is on the horizon.
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M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#50: December 13, 2021, 06:39:04 AM
Sometimes people come into your life and make a world of difference. Thank you to Navarro who coached me to a better place of accepted and detachment when she didn’t even know she was. I’m ready to move on and let life take me where it needs to go with no expectations.

Thank you all for your comments, your advise, your truth darts. They all sunk in little by little. We are truly warriors for what we have been through and how we continue to to be invested in those who find themselves in this unbelievable situation.

We all should be wearing super hero capes IMHO!!
Thank you men and women alike who grace this page and bare their souls and experience to get us all through. Today is a new day and it is my S29 birthday. What a day to start a new!
 
Eye wipe and tissue moment!!!
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 06:40:41 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#51: December 13, 2021, 09:36:27 AM
Big hug!
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M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#52: December 14, 2021, 05:22:17 AM
Thank JB.
 Had an interesting turn of events this weekend. I got notification that my XH was using my phone number on his ipod I sent for FaceTime. I messed him that although I really want him to have all his music that it may be pushing it using my phone number to FaceTime. He called me right away from KC  where he was for the game and assured me that he was not using it for facetime. I said ok , well I changed the sign on but he can see where that might not be to cool ( As I laughed ) He chuckled a bit back and said Yes, I would never do that. I don't know how to face time. I googled it and if he signed on it does give that random message ( so maybe truth for a change)

He said the weekend was hard. They went to 2 games and 1 would have been enough. I said, I know your struggling, but I appreciate that you took S29 to the games and spent some time with him. I know he appreciated it. He started crying. I tried to change the subject to lighter things on the game and he engaged well. Talking about the tailgating and fans. Also, the upcoming playoffs as we have to share those seats.

 He did tell me that the thought of heading home did not bring him comfort. I did ask if going home in general now and having someone there was any better for him than going home to an empty home. He said No. It doesn't feel like home. I said , Im very sorry. I did tell him I am in a better place. I don't need to rehash the past or reach out, but I do understand he is in a very dark place and if he finds himself in a place where he needs help I will help him in any way I can. I told him I want him to have a relationship with his kids. If he needs my help in facilitating that I will be glad to help, but he will have to reach out for that help as I will not be checking in. He said, Thank you. I said, safe travels home and bye. He sat there…… then I said, bye??? He cried and said bye back. He did not seem to want the for the convo to end.

What is more interesting is his brother who he went to the game with called me to tell me there was a terrible encounter with their mother. He went to pick up his brother for a the game and his mother was watching our nieces and she hugged him and he did nothing back and turned his head during the hug away from her. He then walked away. His brother said after his mother was very affected. Asked if she was an ogre? His brother said, no. He is just in a bad place. What I am glad to see if they are finally seeing his state. He really was not revealing it to anyone but me. There is a lot of comfort in them seeing what is happening. That it is more than him just walking out and finding someone new. He is in crisis.

Either way. My interchange with him was brief, but I felt very strong and unaffected to engage in his depression and ask questions ( except the one) I’m ready for him to deal with his issues on his terms and really ready to see what is in store for me.

Then my gf that came to the game ( I did her entire wedding for her when she married for the first time at 57  two years ago, even though my marriage was falling apart) with me a week ago called. She said she had a convo with some of our mutual friends and told them how much fun we had at the game and that she told them that I had a rough year, but I am back to the old torn up. That she was so glad to see my fun personality back and that she can see a total change back to the old me. when I told her my conversation with XH and offering help in interest of our kids, she said you are a saint. I’m so proud of you. I would expect nothing else that you would offer, but she said I can tell by all our interactions you are moving forward and not focused on him. I have my friend back!!

It’s been a good weekend for taking my power back. Disengaging and looking forward. My gf’s are planning a trip for me to get away and celebrate my new life. My D30 also messaged me to celebrate xmas this Sunday and so we will see how that goes. Ready for the playoff’s  and honestly hoping he doesn’t want to go and I can go with my S29 and some friends and just enjoy it. I love my NFL games!! They are MY escape!!

Onward and upwards!
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 05:57:20 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#53: December 22, 2021, 06:11:14 PM
I did not think I could be more shocked then when my XH decided to end our marriage on a text after 3o years of marriage, but today I was proven wrong. In a conversation today he said he was seeing our daughter the day after Christmas. He literally said I’m going to stop by for a bit. I said A bit? Your not eating together? He said, Yes, D30 requested we eat out. I said, is S29 going? He said No! He said, I was honest and said OW may be coming and he said he wasnt coming. I said well he worked with her and did not like her before the affair, so you knew that going in?? He said yes. That’s fine I will leave his gifts a D30 house for him.

I said you cant do something with him separate? He said, No I dont think so. Time is pretty tight. We are driving down and opening up presents with the girls ( her daughters ) and then next day going to lunch with D30 and then we have to drive back. I said, wait? Opening presents with her girls is more important than your son. He said, No. I said. Cant you call him and ask if you can just drive by and drop off gifts in the driveway and give him a quick hug and wish him a Merry Christmas and tell him can open the gifts whenever? He said, I don’t know. Maybe

I said, XH you are burning some major bridges. First you picked taking OW to the lunch over him and now her girls over him. Can you see that is what your doing? No response. I said ket me tell you I never got over my mothers affair, but she spent time with me without OM. You spent all Thanksgiving with her and her kids over yours. Also, her girls are with them now ( so he is lying, but I did not call him out) I think they are driving down and back day after Christmas so she will be with him the whole time. I think he must have made some excuse why S30 cant come to lunch so he cant drop gifts off or she will know that he just didn’t want tl eat with them.

I also think that he wants to open gifts with OW daughters because he spent an enormous amount of money on them and they have never had a xmas like that and he wants that ego boost. I think he is mad my S30 isn’t engaging, but I told him he has the right to his feelings and he cant resent him for that.

I just never thought he would pick someone else kids over his own. His crisis is much worse than I thought. I also asked him if he was happy he said yes. I said the depression is better? Yes. He said it very convincingly. I said, well that’s good. You sound stronger. Then silence. I said hello? He said yes? ( weird tone) I said were you being sarcastic? Yes. I said your not happy? No I said well you fooled me. You sounded convincing. Well, Im not

I am heartbroken for my S30. His father chose to have an affair with someone that he worked with and didnt like putting him in a terrible position. He left his mother for her and he had to continue to work with her. He and his father have been always very close. His father said a few months ago that S30 was his favorite person. I cant imagine how messed up you have to be to treat your favorite person like that, but I know one thing. He is really in worse shape than I could have possibly imagined.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#54: December 22, 2021, 06:17:21 PM
Sorry to hear that, Torn. What a mess.
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P
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#55: December 22, 2021, 06:50:27 PM
This all sounds terrible Torn.
Especially when he says he is not happy then why won't He change the situation?
It's obviously not what he thought it would be.
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"Trying to taste green with my elbow ;-)"

Im always reminded of that 80's movie.. War Games.. The best way to win is not to play the game.

Affair found out April 2021
BD June 23rd 2021
Moved out July 8th 2021(Same day our granddaughter was born)
Back with LO Dec 2021
Moved in with AP May 2022.

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#56: December 22, 2021, 07:03:00 PM
Thank JB it is a mess
Pacman- I think he cant look at his family. He is embarrassed and ravaged in guilt. The OW has been poor all her life. Kids from 2 men and fathers really not around. I think she sees a meal ticket. He has spent over 3k on their xmas. I think he knows they will be thrilled with this xmas and he will get a huge ego boost. Also, I think OW doesn’t know the things he has done. She doesn’t know she is #4 in his escape route through MLC so she thinks she is special. He is very charming. Must be hard holding that mask on.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#57: December 22, 2021, 07:31:35 PM
Torn , is this what prevents them facing the reality of everything?
The embarrassment, the guilt?
Do you think the mask slips off eventually? Or do they really become this "new" person?

This certainly sounds like it's a winning relationship between them that is doomed from the start. (Sounds like a typical affair down).
I'm sorry you are dealing with this at this time of year.
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"Trying to taste green with my elbow ;-)"

Im always reminded of that 80's movie.. War Games.. The best way to win is not to play the game.

Affair found out April 2021
BD June 23rd 2021
Moved out July 8th 2021(Same day our granddaughter was born)
Back with LO Dec 2021
Moved in with AP May 2022.

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#58: December 23, 2021, 12:39:12 AM
TornUp: is it really that shocking? I mean if you truly accept where he is emotionally and that he is disordered as painful as this is it can't possibly be surprising now can it? Only reason I say that is because I believe the sooner we can get to seeing the truth and accepting how things are now the less damage we take and the sooner we can heal and move forward.

Also I am curious (real question, no judgement) are you purposeful in this much contact with him? I understand there is coordination here, but your kids are all adults and this all could be arranged among your H and them. There are no minors involved and for good or for bad they will have to accept what is going on with their dad.

From the cheap seats it still sound like you are being his guide, trying to fix things for him, and trying to get him to do the right thing.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#59: December 23, 2021, 01:19:24 AM
Marvin- good question. We actually don't have relationship talks or guided talks anymore. I cut that off when OW moved in. The call initially was on the NFL post season tickets we share and navigating who would be going etc. Now when we do talk I try to keep it to business only and Under 2 minutes. That has worked well and has kept me from being affected and able to start much better detachment.

The mistake I made was on the hang up on this call and it may have been due to the Holidays, but I said have a good Christmas and are you going to D30’s. He said Yes, but the S29 declined. As you can see I don’t even ask my kids and S29 lives with me. I try to stay out of it. My mistake was asking if he was going to meet him separate. I should not have engaged any further, but truth be told I really thought he was going to say yes. I meeting him…….So, that was the turn.

I was absolutely shocked at his response. Yes, I accept his crisis and he has not been involved much with them in the past year physically in person, but they do all work under him, so they do have communication weekly even if it is work related and surface level. So, I was totally shocked when he put her daughters ahead of his son. I am still shocked. The daughters he has only known for a few months. So, my mistake was I let my Mama bear instinct kick in. I will say the convo still was under 8 minutes, so I didn’t guide him to long, but did give him a suggestion on how to see him.

In hindsight I dont feel better about it, because I dont like getting into personal convos with him any longer, but as a child of a horrific divorce I saw the lasting effect this could do to their future relationship and I was compelled to step in and give that option. So I did. Not sure if I regret it or not . I regret that i did as it affected me and I have not been allowing that, but he does tend to listen and to me in many ways, so if it gets him to have an interaction with S29 that will save him pain later in life than it was worth my discomfort and frustration.

I will say now that I see the crisis is going in deeper I will not do this again. I really thought he sounded better and so I was not expecting that response and that he is actually was getting worse. He is definitely going deeper and deeper into avoidance and escape. Also, more selfish as tie goes on. I was shocked. I really was. 
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« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 01:27:24 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#60: December 23, 2021, 01:45:27 AM
Something I did not discuss that may have affected me on my interaction was my xmas last Sunday. Both my kids discussed their work all day and with that their Dad as they work for him, so his decisions and interactions with work come up. It was difficult as I have asked them not to talk me about him, but hard to tell them not to discuss work. My daughter also gave me a frames photo of our family for xmas with him in it. I was taken back by it. I guarantee he will not get that as he lives with someone.

It was a rough Christmas as I stayed unengaged and tried not to react or respond since he was coming up and it dampened my day.  I remember when the day ended thinking I will never be able to stop hearing about him, but he will not have to hear about me and I had a little pity party to myself on that and how I can change that or if it is possible. It hits to the core that I brought him into the business that I then left and they are all still there and thats where he met OW. It’s like I caused my own issues in some way that I am now dealing with. That can be a hard pill to swallow.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#61: December 23, 2021, 05:55:34 AM
Torn, it’s really tough to see the distance between your kids and their father.  I get it…

Have you heard of Nonviolent Communication (NVC)?  Just google it.

If you are interested in delving a little deeper into it, there is a lot of information out there.  It’s about changing the way one communicates with other human beings. 

I have tweaked the way I think about my purpose/motives in communication and how I go about it quite a bit since becoming acquainted with NVC.  I’m deeply thankful that my therapist recommended it.

Wishing you peace and joy. 
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« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 06:18:23 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#62: December 23, 2021, 06:55:23 AM
Acorn- thank you I have not heard of it and will definitely look it up and read it. Thank you for the suggestion
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#63: December 24, 2021, 03:12:11 AM
TornUp thanks for elaborating. Please realize sometimes the questions asked are not "hints" or judgments, more meant to give you something to use to test how you feel, your own motivations, are you fully aware of them at time.

My observation is there are still a lot of ways you can actually limit having to talk to him in order to give yourself a guard rail. If you find yourself "falling into" old habits (and trust me you are NOT the only one here what has that tendency, I am raising my hand) then do things differently. Tickets and almost everything can be handled by text or e-mail. This is a GREAT tool, they don't get a chance to sound "sad" or to engage, it helps us not fall into the trap of thinking of them as their old self when we hear their voice. I know that for me it is much easier to interact with my wife through text, take my time, not have to hear her voice and hear if she is up or down, etc. And I don't have to read things until I am centered.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#64: December 24, 2021, 05:27:10 AM
Thank you Marvin- I always appreciate the views from the outside. I am going into 2022 with a more firm goal on contact. So ending the year trying to wrap up what cant easily be done on text or emails. Texting or emailing changes on 5 season tickets and seat location options and pricing for different seating was way to much to text or email. Frankly that would have been impossible. I would have been going back and forth with screen shots for days. I dont have that much patience. 20 minute call was quicker and done.

I am going to remain civil and kind to him. His change can’t dictate a worse me ( if that make sense ) I refuse to be bitter. It’s important I don't lose the core of me because of who he is now. So, going into 2022
I do want to limit communication way down. Again, you have to remember he left and we divorced in 90 days. We still have had financials that have popped up etc that we have had to resolve ( mostly due to his non follow through )

I do feel better and stronger when I don’t have to talk to him in person. Emails and texts are definitely the best way to go. He has made his choices and I do want him to live them and I do want to take the exit door to the right, so I can live mine. And honestly, I think his next manipulated tactic by OW will be marriage. OW has her hooks in and I can see it all playing out and so I really want out of communication and that has motivated me to think ahead and get things wrapped up that aren’t.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#65: December 24, 2021, 07:23:29 AM
Merry Christmas Torn up

Quote
It’s important that I do not lose the core of me

For years he distanced himself from our daughter. I felt it was important that she could talk freely to me and I remain convinced that this was the right thing for me to do.
I was able to “desensitize” from how contact with him made me feel. Much of that was by acceptance of this situation.
The framed photos may very well be your daughter’s way of believing that her family was real and is still a family however broken.
As always, you do what feels right for you. I know others like me who left the communication channels open.
I am enjoying 9 days together as a family. On a beautiful beach This would not work for everyone. I am more than fine. It is Christmas, I am at peace and we are enjoying our family as it is today.
I guess we must live for what works for today. Yet we can also
consider what we want for the future. This was very much my choice, always has been.
Just a different point of view.
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 07:25:26 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#66: December 24, 2021, 08:12:26 AM
Xyzcf- I love that you’re family can spend holidays and special times together. I really believe my family will be doing that in the future. We have served lunches at Ronald McDonald House in memory of our daughter since her passing. That will continue once covid restrictions lift. So, keeping civil and friendly is important, so my family continue with these community give backs as a family.

It is no something for everyone. Also, I am thankful for the covid restrictions which is giving me some distance for healing before we come together again as a family. Next one would be in March, so have 3 more months for more healing.

I believe he is in crisis and not thinking clearly and that has truly allowed me to forgive him to some extent and release a lot of anger and pain. It’s not easy. None of the is easy. It is down right gut wrenching painful to get through. I can see the light peaking through however and I truly know I am going to be ok.

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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#67: December 25, 2021, 05:33:08 AM
I did Christmas with my kids last Sunday due to GS custody schedule, but held back 15 gifts for s29 for today, so little mini one with him and then going to spidermen this afternoon with him and have a few drinks.

We have almost made it through the year and a difficult season of memories and family. I have mixed emotions for 2022. It will bring up my D anniversary and something about a year going by is significant. It’s the slippage of time and knowing life is precious and you cant just let it go by and not engage and live your life. 2022 is going to be big for me. Big on changes, goals and GALing!!!!

Merry Christmas everyone!!! I truly have no idea where I would be if I wouldn’t have had you all in these last 6 months since I found this forum. I am going into year new year with this “if you change nothing, nothing changes “. Time for CHANGE!!!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#68: December 25, 2021, 08:53:38 AM
So just me and my S29 today. He told me about his convo with his Dad on him coming down. He said to S29 I will be down day after xmas, but I wont be alone. S29 said than I'm good. His dad then just sat in silence. S29 said. I wasn't about to sit there in awkward silence, so I said I'm going back to work and I hung up.
Heartbreaking 💔

I said, I can talk to you because you see the crisis. So I am telling you the father you know would never pick anyone over you. He does not see what he is doing. He is ME ME land!  If he was thinking straight he would tell her he needed to spend time alone with his kids. There is no one more important to him then you and he will figure it all out. I believe it.

Told S29 that I am proud of him. Not for not embracing her. He can choose to do that at anytime, but that he knows her and doesn't like her and refused to enable his fathers behavior just to try and save their relationship. I said, you are showing you wont compromise who you are for anyone and that shows an enormous amount of maturity.

I said, prepare yourself however as this could lead to a marriage and just because it does, doesn't mean he still wont see the light. When and if he chooses that this new life is not making him happy he may have the strength to make it through.

Just a hard convo to have on Christmas, but glad we had it and hope he understands a little better that it’s not him and not to take anything personal. I told him I have been through it myself at 14 with my mother’s  affair and I never got over it. I don’t want that for you.

Also….So, my mother left my father for a man 20 years younger when I was 14. About 5 years later she wrote a letter to my Dad asking to get back together for the children. Now, we were all on our own at this point and so that was an excuse. She had to much selfish pride to say for herself. My Dad read the letter and threw it in the trash and never responded. It was to late for him and to much damage was done.

She went back to the affair partner and they remained together until her death. When My father died in 2005 I called her to tell her. She broke down and it became all about her. It had been decades since their divorce. I walked out of my Dad’s hospital room to call my
Mom and she was no comfort to me. What she said was “ he was the love of my life”  Really? 

I do want to say that when she lied on her death bed her OM sent her off to the heavens with the most beautiful send off ever. He talked about the first time he set eyes on her and how beautiful she was etc. it was the words you want to here when leaving this earth. My father was cold. Raised by a mother that didn't know how to show love. I loved my father, however. My mother when She died I did not shed a tear. She had a good life with her affair partner for 3 decades, but she would have chose my father again if he would have let her. She never married the other man and kept my fathers last name . She remained selfish for the remaining days of her life. Her own siblings stopped talking to her. Even though she had a loyal partner in the end, I was the only child to show up to her death bed. My siblings could not be bothered. I believe she died a very very lonely woman that realized she never appreciated her family and she never could ever truly face herself.

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« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 10:05:32 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#69: December 25, 2021, 12:36:34 PM
Merry Christmas!

I was reading through your posts and this stood out to me,

Quote
I obviously have been looking for closure from H. The disrespect should be my closure. I wanted to be heard and that would somehow magically validate me.

There is a lot in this statement.

Being a sample of one, even though it has been over a decade since bomb drop and eight years since the divorce, I have not ever reached a true point of closure with my ex. Of course, I am still trying to get her to sign the QDRO so that legally we would be completely finished. Maybe she keeps from signing it to keep a connection, I don't know. We rarely talk and don't even acknowledge each other on holidays or birthdays and I like it that way.

So my question to you, is what is closure to you?  It is a hard step and it is a step for you- independent of the actions of your H. And, do you really want closure?

In regards of the disrespect towards you, isn't he disrespecting himself just as much?

Finally, being heard is hard when you have so much to say. I wish there was a single phrase or phrases that could capture all the complex feelings we've been through since the onset of bomb drop and everything since then, but I have never thought of one witty statement to render so that I truly felt heard. I don't think I will ever be truly heard by my ex. It just may be too much to say and I don't think she really wants to hear what I truly feel.

Quote
He told me about his convo with his Dad on him coming down. He said to S29 I will be down day after xmas, but I wont be alone. S29 said than Im good. His dad then just say in silence.

Wow, your H expected misery on your part and the lack of it shut him down. I think there is a lot of misery within him and just like a thief sees the rest of the world as full of thieves, your H is a miserable man and expects misery throughout.

I don't think your H feels for anyone at this moment. It is just about escape and nothing feels better than pain.

Enjoy your Christmas and continue to focus on you and your recovery.

(((((Ready))))
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"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#70: December 25, 2021, 02:46:08 PM
Quote
I obviously have been looking for closure from H. The disrespect should be my closure. I wanted to be heard and that would somehow magically validate me.

There is a lot in this statement.

Being a sample of one, even though it has been over a decade since bomb drop and eight years since the divorce, I have not ever reached a true point of closure with my ex.

Sample of one plus another one equals two  :)
I think Ready makes a good point worth reflection here, for you and others. I honestly can’t say I ever achieved anything that felt like closure that involved my former h at all. With hindsight, I think my (understandable) need for it....and my belief that something he might say or do would provide it...was actually a big part of what kept me emotionally and mentally attached long after he had disappeared from my life. There were no neat edges, just jagged ones.....

Not sure I would say that I have closure even now tbh. What changed for me, slowly, was that looking in his direction for it became exhaustingly futile enough that I stopped looking and then I suppose just as slowly I accepted that perhaps there would not ever be a point of closure. That this was inherently the nature of what he did and the way he did it, so it might be easier to learn to live without it than keep searching for it, if that makes sense? I think reaching our own conclusion about what closure means and what we can live with from what seems available is part of the individual process of recovery and rebuilding. I’m not sure tbh that this is much different in some of the examples of reconciled relationships here either, that these unravelled folks who break things don’t seem to add much that is useful, although perhaps others might share their POV on it.
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« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 02:48:10 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#71: December 25, 2021, 03:19:29 PM
Thank you Ready 2. And Treasur- That must have been something I wrote a bit before. Things move quickly and so closure is no longer something I need. I thought I needed closure, but I feel I found a lot of closure on my own. I finally believe that it is is struggles and weakness that caused this. Not even sure I have to many questions for myself anymore.

 I am so focused on my kids and my S29. That conversation and his father being so weak as to not even have a discussion with him . Just silence is just so heartbreaking. That wasnt a convo with me, but my son he went silent on.

Honestly if he was with a decent woman she would encourage him to meet up with his kids without her, but she isn’t and frankly he doesn’t want to spend time with his kids.He just cant handle his old life period. He is miserable and he is just trying to survive.
Instead today he drove here and is spending it with her and her kids. Instead of his own. Girls he didn’t know a few months ago, but also spent  thanksgiving with. It really is just heartbreaking. My daughters ok. She just got married and has a husband and son. My S29 is single and at home and this it a total shift in reality.

Curtain call for me for a long bit. My show must go on and frankly I feel pretty darn strong and good about taking my exit out. If he needs me he knows where I am . And when I say if he needs me I mean when and if he needs my help. Whether for him or his kids. Professional help is a need he must want and that is what he needs.

This definitely has nothing to do with me or my kids, but it is just so horrific that our kids have to see this happen to a parent they love and respected. I am just going to be the best me and try and be the best mom and carry on .
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« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 03:58:16 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#72: December 27, 2021, 06:25:22 PM
Christmas is done!!! It was rough. Not the family gathering we are used to. I’m really glad it is over. My XH  and OW went to eat with D30, SIL, GS7  last night ( S29 opted not to go as he doesn't not like Ow) have not heard how it went. S29 did ask is sister, but he said she did not say much. He said not what he was expecting, but he just thought it went meh. I think D30 is not offering info to S29 because he opted not to go. But he knows OW. He worked with her. I think he was curious on her first impression. She is not talking.

S29 went to pick up his gifts that his Dad left at D30. She was there and did not come out of her bedroom. Very strange again. Her Husband gave them to him. s29 come home. I said, you got your gifts? He said, yes. I said what did you get? He said, it was random. He bought me some bowling game and a child's remote control car.

I think at this point the kids are aware of his extravagant spending on OW and her daughters and they are getting strange gifts with no thought. I believe what my son got wasn't purchased, but gifts he received he handed down. S29 also found out they went to dinner, so Dad did have all day he could have fit in time just alone with him, but he didn’t. Instead he went shopping with OW and daughters. After spending xmas day with them as well.

Here is my biggest heartache. We lost a D14 and they lost their sister, but as surviving children I can not imagine feeling abandoned by the father that is distressed from the death of one, but they are here. Alive!!! Yet, he is spending time with OW and her children and not his own. I know… no making sense of someone in crisis, but it is painful for me as a mother to know my kids are really starting to see his state of mind. I am no longer covering or making excuses or telling him how to make it right.

I think this is the lowest I have been. Seeing your children ( even if young adults) in pain is really just so hard for me. I am sticking to NC and not offering suggestions or anything else to XH. He seems to be fully runnings  into lala land and right now he wants no one from his past in that land. Not even his own children
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#73: December 27, 2021, 06:43:33 PM
Sorry, Torn. I'm trying to think of what I'd want if I were one of your children,  and I'm not even sure. I guess I'd want you to be the stable,  accepting one. 
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#74: December 28, 2021, 01:38:24 AM
Sorry to hear this part of your story Torn. But with your children the age they are they will obviously make their own choices I guess.
I'm glad that you have a great relationship with them all.
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"Trying to taste green with my elbow ;-)"

Im always reminded of that 80's movie.. War Games.. The best way to win is not to play the game.

Affair found out April 2021
BD June 23rd 2021
Moved out July 8th 2021(Same day our granddaughter was born)
Back with LO Dec 2021
Moved in with AP May 2022.

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#75: December 30, 2021, 08:43:50 AM
As this rough year comes to an end I have found myself with some anxiety resurfacing. Working though where I have been and where I am going. Holidays were rougher than I anticipated. The reality that in my opinion my XH is aware of what he has done. I also believe he is aware that his choices and decisions have caused us all pain, however he continues to rationalize his actions for his own selfish reasons. I do believe when he left and said he had to leave or he wouldn’t survive that was true and continues to be his mindset of his current life and decisions.  His need to break away from from his life is so strong, so overwhelming that he avoids thinking of it so he can live with himself. He is in a delusional mindset from a place of identity loss and mass confusion. He continues to struggle emotionally and mentally inside. I know he doesn’t want to live there, yet he is unwilling to do the work to get out. He continues to work around it rather than work through what puts him where he sits.

Six months I have been on this forum and I believe more than ever that MLC is real. It is not chosen. I know this crisis is not his choice, it is still heart wrenching that my XH is in such a state of confusion that he left a marriage and family for a relationship with someone that he barely knew. That is what he needed. He wasn't capable of counseling or communication despite or for the sake of our history, friendship, love and our family.

I also believe this was always part of him and his lack of coping skills made this crisis what it is. I even now feel I understand why seeking a relationship that feeds his now narcissistic need for ego boosting makes sense. Will he ever wake up ? Is it possible he will see what he lost once the high of an affair has past. Will it pass and grow into a sustainable relationship? Only time will tell and that time could be in years.

I am not hopeful or discouraged that the man that loved his family will start to come to light. That he will miss his own children the more he spends with the OW’s children . He has stated many times this year that he misses his family, but those pockets of clarity seemed to push him father into the tunnel of escape. This year has shown me that he and I are on two different journeys of survival. Not much surprises me anymore. This has been the most painful journey and we will see what 2022 will bring, but I know it will bring my family into a better place of healing no matter what happens.

I am moving forward, but I am standing for my family as I took vows to stand by him in sickness and in health. Standing for me is not standing still, but moving forward and open to any and all
options that are healthy for me and for my family. I am not closing any doors. What I do know is that I am clear what I will and will not accept going forward.

Wishing you all  peace, love  and support in 2022



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« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 08:54:44 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

C
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#76: December 30, 2021, 09:35:34 AM
Torn, thanks for this well-written description of what, I think, often happens to the MLCer and the LBS in this process. There’s a lot to be said for processing all of this and seeking some kind of understanding… and it’s not always (in fact, it’s almost never) a complete understanding of his motivations or thoughts or actions. It’s more an understanding of the fact that this is his journey to navigate - as well or as poorly as he can. And also to realize that you have your own journey, and you are navigating it from a place of increasing self-awareness. There is quite a lot that you can be very proud of in the way you are moving forward and growing.

Wishing you (continued) peace, strength, and growth in 2022 and always.
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M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#77: January 01, 2022, 09:54:23 AM
Thank you Curiosity,
Someone once said that I would be thankful for going through this when I get  to the other side. I still can’t see that ever being the case, but I can see the self improvement and self discovery of my lost self that I am thankful for. What a difference a year makes. I am hoping for more healing in 2022 for everyone finding themselves here.  I think we all live in our own fog of just existing in some ways the first year and really there is not much we can do but live it.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#78: January 01, 2022, 11:28:01 AM
I am moving forward, but I am standing for my family as I took vows to stand by him in sickness and in health. Standing for me is not standing still, but moving forward and open to any and all options that are healthy for me and for my family. I am not closing any doors. What I do know is that I am clear what I will and will not accept going forward.

Thank you Torn, it's good to know I'm not the only one, although I'm not sure how much progress forward I'm making right now. (And as you said later, maybe we just need to make it through our own fog of the first year.) The future can bring a lot of things, but it's hard to see that right now. The holidays were a lot harder than I expected. Although I knew I wouldn't hear anything from my wife, I was still hoping...

I think my stand will also be a protest against the idea of marriage being disposable. Especially given that my wife and I met and married reasonably later in life.

Hopefully I'll do better than a George Jones song, but at least there's precedent.

JB
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b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#79: January 02, 2022, 05:15:04 PM
Quote
I also believe this was always part of him and his lack of coping skills made this crisis what it is. I even now feel I understand why seeking a relationship that feeds his now narcissistic need for ego boosting makes sense. Will he ever wake up ? Is it possible he will see what he lost once the high of an affair has past. Will it pass and grow into a sustainable relationship? Only time will tell and that time could be in years.
.

I think about the reason "why" alot.  Atleast I did for many years and not so much any longer. I have some of the answers ( as shallow as they are) but it seems to me that it makes more sense to acknowledge the statement "how could this NOT have happened?". I believe that if a man ( or women...but this is mostly a man thing) spends their life in avoidance , survival mode or  hiding behind an ill formed identity ...how can this NOT happen?.  I can only talk about my experience with my H but I have repeatedly read that nearly all the MLCer's on here are described as avoidant.  If he had faced and addressed ( or even spoke out loud ) about his struggles, his unhappiness , his fears etc...I firmly believe none of this would have happened.  I believe that 100%.  But he did not, he could not and he has never been able to express himself emotionally, ask for what he needs ( or even recognize ) he has needs , be vulnerable , accept or admit he needs help ( I could go on) . ...he has always been avoidant, and that all just piles up doesn't it?. Until you explode from mountains of internal chaos and everything you ever avoided or ignored.  I would also bet that unresolved shame that is internalized since childhood is the making of an avoidant attachment style. None of this has anything to do with you or me. Its just there . And we married it and now it has exploded into all kinds of crazy coping strategies, running, trying to feel something ( thus enters OW's) and a battle they are fighting ( or trying to avoid ) within.  Its a mess that I suggest you stay as far away from as possible as you are doing. This "stuff" has always been inside of these men . Only now it doesn't seem to be as managable as in their younger years.  Nothing to do with me has given me great comfort and I can detach with greater success.  My H is still avoidant and my guess is he always will be . He either has not done the "work" or simply cannot. I suspect MLC act 2 may appear at some point. BUT, it will never include me again.  Even if your H was to return, does not mean he will be a whole new person.  It still is an incredible struggle.
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#80: January 03, 2022, 05:59:28 AM
JB- A George Jones song LOL. Music is a blessing and a curse through all, but MLC would also be a great source for soap operas as well 🤔
Barbie- You are so right. You always have great insight.

You know after a year of reading and playing conversations over in my head trying to make sense of how we got here I really got so many answers for myself. Like a puzzle slowly coming together. My XH is definitely an avoidant personality. I believe he has hid his insecurities, shame and low self esteem through many defenses including a false ego and mirroring others. I really am not sure now if he has ever truly been happy as I don’t think he knows who he is. Yet, he has said he was happy in our life before his MLC. 

I think he has always hidden behind defenses such as being being negative of others, hiding behind knowledge in place of exposing vulnerability, and honestly a bit of cockiness as a way of feeling in control. I think that works until life throws a curve ball and you can’t hide behind your defenses any longer. I think that curve ball was the loss of our D14. I think he was is so much pain that he could not  deal with his own emotions much more mine. He simply had nothing to give emotionally.

In that pain he no longer loved me. Was that real ? No, that’s depression, but not understanding feeling love for someone that you have always loved has got to be a scary thing. When he looked at me now all he saw was his failures and his inability to give back emotionally and most of all I reminded him everyday just by my presence that he was unhappy. He knows it’s not me. He knows it is something within him, but he doesn’t know how to fix it. He just feels broken.

I know when he first left he said I need to do things for myself. I do feel my XH is finding himself in small ways while still running. He is paying his own bills, cooking, laundry, grocery shopping, buying a car etc. These are all things he never did. He honestly for the first time is being a grown up in many ways. I really did handle everything. Unfortunately he is now me. Doing everything and frankly being taken advantage of by a manipulative OW. There has to be a balance. I think he will have to learn this hard lesson to truly find himself.

I am more convinced now that he is on a path of healing. I think the OW is part of that pathway to healing. He has went from one extreme to the other, but I think he will find his way. The MLC’s has to heal themselves. Find their identity to become whole. Without my XH even knowing it he is doing that.  The OW is a distraction on his way, but  I think he will see that. I  think a person secure in their own identity and who have the ability to take care of themselves in the first place don’t find themselves in MLC.

Once I could see all the pieces and understand truly the journey he was on is when I realized it is HIS journey and his journey alone to find himself.  His last piece is to realize he is strong enough to stand on his own. That is when he will determine OW is not  what is healing him. That he doesn’t need her for his survival or self esteem. I think that is why when the OW is gone we see that they are really on their way to  recovery.  They are coming to the healthy place of knowing they alone carry the knowledge and the strength to be happy. To be self fulfilled and that outside people are just a blessing that add to that place of contentment and happiness. There are more pieces to puzzle than I realize and that is why each MLC is so different. Why the healing takes so long and even if they return certain personality traits will remain.

I can see when they or if they return they are still broken. If you lived your whole life avoiding yourself it is a long journey to find who you are and once you start that alone changes every aspect and reaction in your life. That is why if they return they are never the same, but hopefully better in many ways, yet still a confused and wounded bird needing a lot of self care before they can fly. I have no idea whether he will come back to our house for that recovery or where I will be if he does. Will he make it through it all or not? I really don’t know, but this has allowed me to move forward. I have shown love and grace and he knows I loved him deeply, but now my love has to show it can let go so he can fly. If it was meant to be he will find that his home is the safest perch to come back to.



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« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 06:34:28 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#81: January 03, 2022, 07:09:55 AM
You've got some good ideas in here, Torn.

As far as I can tell, my wife was always able to live on her own. For a portion of her 20s, she had to couch surf or live in her car, and later had an apartment. I think she always stayed employed. But, I think she's also always had some kind of distraction. For a while she was living with her sister from city to city (or even country) moving every couple of years as the sister relocated to run training classes. My wife would pick up odd jobs, usually as a cocktail waitress. Then she settled back in her home town living in her own apartment and working office jobs. At some point she got involved in roller derby, and that took a lot of energy since she was in a leadership role, I remember that a lot of her activities were ones that would drive validation from other people, so I'm not sure how happy she ever was with herself. (The impression I got was, "They won't listen to me, so I'm going to show them how good I am." And they still wouldn't recognize her, probably because she rocked the boat.) Her complaint now is that she can't make friends here, and needs to go back to be around her old girlfriends (if she can't find new ones in the next city). She's forgotten that her friends weren't supportive of her hobby, and never arranged girls nights out. It was always her doing that, and she was happy to leave them behind. I'm hoping that she can finally find happiness in herself somehow, and realize that our relationship wasn't the source of the problem. But I don't know how that happens at our age.

It's funny that Barbie notes MLC is primarily a male problem. Some friends have noted that I had more of the female traits and my wife had more of the male traits in our relationship, particularly regarding the willingness to go to counseling for help in resolving things. But as I read more I'm starting to think menopause also played a big role in this, so I'm hoping that making it through that will help my wife as well.
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M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#82: January 03, 2022, 07:32:04 AM
JB- I truly believe MLC is rooted in identity crisis. I think low testosterone, hormones ( whether male or female) diabetes etc all effect and add and play their part of the perfect storm and everyones storm is different. Ranging from light sprinkles to hurricanes depending on how many issues are unresolved.

My XH like your wife is always looking for that outside validation. He made it to the top if his career. He is in a very high position and I think he thought finally that was going to be the answer. It wasn’t. The higher you are the more critics there are. The more pressure and blame you take for those under you. When you cant validate yourself and look for outside sources you will be chasing that forever. There is a big part of me that thinks if my XH doesn’t leave his job he won’t recover. Yet, a huge part of his success and identity of who he truly is, is what got him there.

It has to be scary to reach a point in life where you look in the mirror and are not sure of who or what you are. Unfortunately we become part of that confusion. I think all we can do is show that we know who they are. We believe in them and be a safe place to return. I am not sure I am or will be there if a return happens. I am not sure as a partner in life, but I know I will always be open to his friendship when and if he is able to return a friendship. It would truly be a new start of a new friendship and it would stay at that or maybe it would once again grow to more.

I think the most important step for LBS( IMHO) is to end this relationship. It is over. The divorce solidified that and I honestly feel if it is to come back again the best way for that is a new commitment and life. I no longer feel divorce is the end forever. It is the end to be able to start a new. Who that will be with is partly up to our spouses, but more importantly up to us. Will they return? Will we want them? What I do know is right now. I do not want my XH out of my life forever, but I do not want him in my life as he is now. Most important I am GAL and I have found me again and that really is feeling so good!!
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« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 08:14:48 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#83: January 10, 2022, 05:03:37 AM
Not much new happening. I am 3 weeks of no contact. None, zip, nada!!! I am not forwarding email bills, not texting, calling, messaging or emailing anything. First time in 30 plus years I have not had any contact. I continue to get bills ( some notifications not paid ) that XH still has not corrected his email. I still am getting that insight into his ridiculous spending on clothes for OW ( she is taking him for a ride ) The difference is now instead of it gutting me it is more of a chuckle and an eye roll. I have started to flag them to go to spam so hopefully I will not see them anymore. I have forwarded and informed enough.

What it has given me insight into is that this man is really lost . Way over extended and unable to keep up with his basic bills and charging beyond his means. Paying the minimum on cards to get by. Seems to be living paycheck to paycheck now. That is insane in itself as he has a very high salary. I think there is something to be said on their spending and why. Getting that validation from splurging and coming off as being “rich” OW has no insight into his pay or bills. He is covering everything. She isnt nagging he is spending to much as they dont share bills or any insight.  God knows I would be putting the reigns on it ( so makes sense he is doing what he wants to do for the first time)

However, I know him and I know this is stressing him out. The over spending and that he has set this in place and now what she is accustomed to. Fancy restaurants followed by shopping every week. He has spent more on OW in a year than he did on my in 30.
I was to thrifty and frankly low maintenance . He never knew how good he had it. LOL

Getting ready for the NFL playoffs and hoping for a wild card playoff win this weekend for the CHiefs. Will be taking my son and friends and my old high school girlfriend. Glad I can still share some good times with friends and specially my kids. I know my son misses the family and his Dad not being engaged. It hurts your soul, but I just tel l him what I tell myself. It has nothing to do with you. He is not thinking clearly and he will figure it out or he wont, but my guess is he was a good man and he will miss you enough to figure it out, but it could take years. That’s a sad thing to have to say to your children.

Just finished Nashville the TV show. Never saw it. Love the music and the series. Left me with a great song I try now to remember. That I have more than I should and at the end of the day lord I pray I have a life that’s good!

Have a great week everyone
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#84: January 10, 2022, 05:23:31 AM
When you see that they spin out of control, even with you out of the picture, that is validation that it´s not really about you. But... still hard to know that someone you once thought of as your life partner has come to such a sad state of being. Took a while for me to stop forwarding things but eventually you stop being their secretary which is part of them taking responsibility for their choices. How many bills must one forward for someone to fix the address?
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me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#85: January 11, 2022, 02:11:36 PM
Exactly, Forthetrees. This is a hard and long journey and the first year is just based on how much you can control your actions and emotions. No matter how much anyone advises, we have to do the work. Keep reading. Not only get a life, but get a grip!!

Second year I feel more informed, more in control, but honestly it is sometimes IS THIS REALLY HAPPENING ??????  Just getting to a place of acceptance and reality. Anyone that has gone through this twice?? God bless your soul. I could not survive a loss of another child or another MLC.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#86: January 11, 2022, 07:51:54 PM
Hi Torn,

I am in the second year too and feel much more in control of my emotions and informed.   I still have those moments about once a week now where I look up and ask the Lord why?  I  will never, ever understand why this had to happen to my family which was everything to me.

I guess with each week, I have a little more acceptance and less pain.   Time is a gift and trying to make the most of it.

HF
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W - 42
M - 46
Together 19 years, M 17
2 kids
BD - July 2020
W Left Home - January 2021
W Filed for D - May 2021
D Final - Jan 2022

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#87: January 11, 2022, 11:52:13 PM
If the bills are coming in the regular mail (Post), you can simply mark on them that the addressee has moved (if you are feeling magnanimous, you can add his new address) and chuck them back in the mail. It then becomes an issue between the creditor and him to get his address changed and gets you out of the loop.   It is NOT your job to be his secretary/Post Office....
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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#88: January 13, 2022, 05:33:01 AM
HF- it really is all about time. My IC says just feel all your emotions. I think that is also true. Just work through it and not around it. Working around it is how our MLCer got into this mess.

Ursa- True!! not to much US mail being received luckily. Mostly the emailed auto accounts. Flagging them to go to spam now and hopefully that will resolve it. The mail is mostly junk mail and I assume that takes a few years for names to drop off, but I still get mail from the old owner from 14 years ago 😜🤪
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#89: January 14, 2022, 07:27:29 PM
It’s my D39 birthday next week. Her father cane to town for OW D birthday. He is taking my S30 to dinner with OW and possibly her D’s and then shopping. He told D30 she can buy anything she wants and suggested Tiffany’s or LV handbag. She said do you know how much they cost? She sent him one she liked for 1.5k . He said oh , wow. Well, pick out whatever you want.

He got her no gift last year. Got her a $100 gift card for xmas. His OW is all about name brands and spending. She also told me the OW brought her daughter to their xmas dinner. I asked her what she thought about all this. His changes. She said “ it’s a lot to absorb”
I told her this is the route he is on. If he is willing to buy let him. He is going to spend on OW and her D’s you might as well get what you want.

I am not sure where he is going, but it is no where good. He can’t keep up with his spending. We are going into the anniversary of our divorce and our daughters death. He is in full escape. I also have cut off any and all communication. When I do this he finds way to poke me to see if I will break and contact him. I will not.  I have had my doubts on MLC or just severe depression, but I am convinced he is in MLC ( which of course also is depression )

I think he will crash at some point. He has no savings ( except 401k which is a lot, but he pays penalty to take out money) He is living paycheck to paycheck and cant pay off his cc in full and has over 10k in last couple months after just taking  from 401k to pay off in august.

I would love to know how this kind of spending turned out for other MCLers. It is just insane. It is clear that this makes him feel important. I get that. But when does the anxiety and pressure of paying the bills trump the ego boost of being the big man?? This is becoming so interesting to me now that I can remove myself as feeling like he is ruining our future. Spending our money. I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel sorry for him. He is truly lost and I continue to feel bad my kids are seeing his fall.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

J
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#90: January 14, 2022, 09:14:58 PM
Only $1.5k? Tell her to ask for two!

That sounds pretty tough. Maybe I'll have notes to compare some time after the divorce. My wife had a crazy idea for a settlement at BD; I don't know if her lawyer gave her a more realistic rundown based on my financials, but we ain't the Rockefellers. I have a good job, but things cost money, and even basic living is getting worse with inflation. She has lived in her own apartment in the past, but I don't know how good she was with money; when I met her, she didn't think cooking for herself was worth the effort, so she ate a lot of takeout (or just made sandwiches, but I don't even think she made salads). That can add up quickly.

On the plus side, my wife was never about name brands. She was happy to share my desire to stay in basic hotels, since "we're going there to experience the destination, not the inside of the hotel." I wonder if any of that will change. She certainly has grand ideas about the kind of place she wants to live after she moves. A downtown loft was one idea, and from what I've looked at that would have been difficult for the TWO of us to afford even in this town! I don't think she has a lot of understanding of prices. She even wanted me to buy a classic musclecar (which I would GLADLY do), but was a bit surprised when I told her that an old car in the kind of condition we would want costs the same now as my 2008 350Z did when I bought it new. They ain't frivolous purchases, and even though we could probably swing it, that would be most of our savings.
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#91: January 15, 2022, 04:29:02 AM
JB- Right? She said there is one for 5k I really like . I said , get it!  He said anything you want!!!  Hahah. I took care of all the finances when we were married. This is his first time having full access to do what he wants with no one questioning it. OW is like a teenager living with no concept of her parents financial situation. It’s perfect for him. She just things he has an endless flow. He makes a very very good salary. I think he feels he is living that salary and she is helping him feel it, but with no stress. He has never been a big spender. My daughter is wondering, who is this man???

He is living way beyond his paycheck and OW and her kids think they hit the jackpot. At some point he wont be able to keep this up without constantly pulling from his 401k for rescue. He has often said he won't live for 5 more years and he is living like that. He is on a mini vaca with OW and D’s for their bday and has charged $1.5 in 1 day. He comes to take my D30 out tonight for dinner and shopping . She says she doesn’t know what she will do. I said, if you want it and he wants you to have it??? Say,Thanks Dad !! She replied “LOL”

I have always heard and read on this forum to expect it to get worse before it gets better. That is FOR SURE…..at least their behavior. I feel nothing hits me like a ton of bricks anymore and what does surprises me doesn’t stick for long. It is an acceptance now that this is his life. He may think he is enjoying it. He may marry her soon. When they go to buy a nice big house??? Good luck. Even with a great salary. His spending will be a huge battle on buying the house she will want.

What a crazy crazy journey this is to live, watch from the cheap seats and survive!!! And by gosh I am surviving!!!
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 04:30:14 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#92: January 15, 2022, 04:44:30 AM
How do you know how much he is charging? Does looking at that help you on the balance?
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me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#93: January 15, 2022, 05:12:46 AM
Forthetrees- I handled all the finances. I also handled the divorce to get a settlement he agreed on with no attorney on his end. I sent him all his accounts with sign ons to change. He never has. He never took me off his accounts. I have sent and forwarded them for a year. He still wont change. So, I get notifications of all spending by email. I am now flagging them to go to spam. So,soon I should stop seeing them all.  Due to high charges notifications were set to be flagged for fraud. So, that is why the 1.5k notification in the last day was seen. I mean??? It is a lot???

It doesn’t bother me to see the spending anymore. It actually confirms the MLC and that I did the right thing filing and completing his divorce in 90 days from his leaving after 30 years.
I never wanted it and I dont think he would have been able to do it himself. His spending does confirm to me that I made the right decision to protect myself financially. He will be paying me alimony weekly for 13 years. I would have been lucky where we live to get what he is paying me a week now for a month for a year or three. We live in a non alimony state.

So, yes… I get where everyone says don't look. Move on. Live your life. For me I needed some confirmation that I made the right choice and seeing these charges in this past year has been a major confirmation that he is not ok, but my choices are making sure I will be. I am beyond proud of myself!!
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 05:15:35 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

m
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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#94: January 15, 2022, 06:21:38 AM
TornUp I am going to come at this from another angle. First you HANDLED the finances, as in in the past. In the present do you have any legal obligation or right to handle, or even know about his finances? You are getting notification about someone elses financial affairs who is no longer in any way related to you, nor do you have any legal right about their affairs (outside of anything dictated in the divorce).

Have you notified all banks and other entities to no longer forward any e-mail or physical information to you in regards to your ex-H?
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#95: January 15, 2022, 06:37:38 AM
Marvin- I am a legal user on the accounts. He did not remove me. I dont need to be related to him. He has to removed me. Like I said. I have forwarded for a year. I have asked him. I am not his secretary and I feel very judged right now. I am going to remove myself from this forum. I am trying to heal and share my story and I feel the focus is on the wrong thing. I feel somehow he is being defended and I am being accused of something wrong?
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

m
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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#96: January 15, 2022, 06:52:41 AM
I am not defending anyone, nor am I trying to accuse you of anything, I simply asked a question. It may be that as part of the divorce/financial settlement you are entitled to be on the account. I do not know. I am simply confused as to why if you handled the finances when you were married (as I did in my marriage) that would have any relevance to knowing about and/or getting notifications about your ex-H's finances now. There is no judgement, simply a question. You do not have to answer at all obviously. I t was not very clear why you were getting notifications, but if you are a legal user then that answers it. Is he supposed to remove you as part of divorce but has failed to do so? I ask this one because is there any obligation to debt on your part if he does not pay on the account?

I am still legally married. I asked my wife after she implied she wanted a divorce to get her own separate cards (which she did) not for financial reasons, but because I did not believe I had any right to know what she was doing from that point forward. In fact I turned off all notifications and any other access to joint accounts until they could be separated. For me it was an ethical issue, and also it would help me not be in any way engaged in what is going on with her. That was simply what I knew was best for me. Your mileage may vary as they say.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#97: January 15, 2022, 06:59:29 AM
Marvin- my point is my post was on his spending and advise on that not on how i handle my accounts or expenses. Yet, you still are trying to question that?
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#98: January 15, 2022, 07:04:30 AM
It is, of course, your right to step away from the forum if you wish.

As an uninvolved reader, your reaction to Marvin’s comment was quite a reactive one and seemed at odds with what he actually said.
We get that. A number of us, me included, have had times of being a bit thin-skinned and reading more into a comment than was intended.

It does seem to confirm your wisdom and courage in pushing through the divorce to protect yourself financially. One of the slightly unusual things it seems to me about your path as an LBS here is that your divorce was so quick but emotionally you are probably still playing catch-up and more similar to other relatively new LBS here who are still in limbo or going through MLC-style drawn out divorces.

And yes, big spending to feed a self-image and/or a demanding ow is not uncommon here.
However, I read the point Marvin was making as being two-fold....
As a sensible woman, I am sure you have checked that your notification on these accounts does not expose you legally or financially.
The second is the reminder that, if you genuinely wish to NOT be notified and your xh is doing nothing to remedy that, you may need to take alternative steps directly with the institutions involved if only to ensure your ongoing protection. And that, as Marvin reminds you, your legal involvement in his affairs was terminated by your divorce and it may not be emotionally constructive for you to spend any headspace at all on this ‘window’ into his new life. That it may in fact be more damaging to you than your words suggest, an example perhaps of where as LBS our words say one thing and our actions another. Again, we get that too bc most of us have spent a little time in that space, so we are acknowledging it more than judging it if that makes sense. But it is unlikely that any conversations with your daughter or email notifications about thousands of dollars spent are useful to you imho....and recovery often draws us towards shutting down avenues to things that do not serve us. You say you posted about his spending and advice on that? Well, surely as his xw, the simple answer is that it is not your business as long as he meets his legal alimony obligations? So, what advice do you need? Jmo.

As Marvin says too, your mileage and the specific arrangements of your divorce may vary.....
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 07:13:48 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

N

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#99: January 15, 2022, 07:11:32 AM
Torn, your last several posts have been very focused on him and what he’s spending on OW and how OW is reaping the benefits of her new relationship.
I may be wrong, but I haven’t seen you ask for any advice. I think what every response you’re getting is trying to tell you either directly or indirectly is that your focus is entirely on him and what he’s spending in his new relationship and how does that serve you at all? That’s good people who have been at this a long time are trying to tell you.
Yes, he is spending a lot of money on her. There’s nothing you can do about that and knowing about it is affecting you and taking up space in your head. Mlc or not,  he gets to do whatever he wants with his money, even if it appears to be spent foolishly. That’s all anyone is trying to say, if you change your way of thinking to see that his spending has nothing to do with you, it will save you a whole lot of endless loop thinking about what he’s buying and why he’s doing it.
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#100: January 15, 2022, 07:34:07 AM
Touché Treasur and Nas- here is my opinion. I did a quick divorce to protect myself. Not to divorce my husband. We are divorced but easily could not be if i would not have. So, I think responses to someone still married would be different, correct? So, for me I am only divorced to protect myself. I am not divorced because I want to be. My concern is still for my family and my ex husband as I still view this as a divorce that should not happen. I have always said that.

As far as moving on and detachment. I am steadily moving in that direction. I am not giving up on my “husband” I however am not standing still. I joined this forum as a source to understand where he is and to save my marriage. Early days that is what this forum was about and stood for. I feel there is a sense that we cant always tell our true feelings. I wanted insight into anyone else experience with their out of character spending. I am a grown adult that financially protected myself and I am being asked if I am now smart enough to not protect myself?

 I am 100% real and I hope it encourages everyone on this forum to be that. No matter how messy it gets. Because  MLC is messy!!

I did not ask an opinion at all on why I knew of the charges. I was sharing MLC frivolous spending hoping to hear others experiences. Instead honestly feel a little belittled and run over be a truck for being honest. Others behind the scenes message they dont feel they can be honest even if they are snooping etc. Fear of being judged. I do understand that some is being directed to get to better healing, but We still have to go through our own journey. That doesn’t mean we don't take the advise or hear it. Its all about gaining strength. And sometimes the views of the damage being done actually helps with the strength, learning, growth and attachment. IMO

I do also get that advise it to avoid mistakes other have made. So, the advise is to be helpful. I have been on this forum since June. I get it now!!! i just would prefer responses on like experience not my actions. I think that is where it bothers me. I want advise on my XH behavior and not on mine. Im trying to understand him. I already understand myself! If that makes any sense at all!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#101: January 15, 2022, 07:38:25 AM
Unfortunately, even years later, we may receive information about them.

My experience was, that this could be really harmful to my peace. It could be really innocent on my part, you get information that you  look at and it can cause pain.

Recently, I had to deal with some assets I am entitled  to, 12 years after BD. And my health insurance plan cancelled my EFT for the monthly premium and had it directed to his account. Fortunately, we have a civil relationship and he let me know so I could correct it. I am not sure why the insurance company could cancel what I had set up and had been paying for 2 years without my consent but they did and I had to deal with it. So in some respects, there might occur times when it is necessary to deal with some financial stuff.

I still don't like dealing with these things.

Being honest with you, I too have read your threads talking about how much money he is spending and I know how knowing anything about what he was spending or doing with OW was painful to me.

I think what each of us are saying in our own way is the less you know about him the better. It is hard when financial information comes to you not to take a look.

Some MLCers do spend a great deal of money, others do not seem to.

As outsiders, we are responding to your posts. It's not to judge you but perhaps to point out that you are fixated on what he and OW are doing and that can be damaging to you.

Everyday I just had to breath and say to myself let it go. And that is hard to do.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#102: January 15, 2022, 07:48:13 AM
Xyzcf- Oh I get it, but I am at the stage of trying to understand where he is. Do I continue my stand. I get move on and if it happens it happens. That honestly is not me. I want to know in some capacity where he is in his journey. Maybe because I am 59 and I dont have time to waste. Maybe if I see insight that he is getting worse or staying stagnant it is not worth my stand.

I do think my age has a lot to do with how I am handling everything and honestly his year long need for my help emotionally definitely has me trauma bonded. I also due to the loss of our daughter I have a deeper concern for him. I took vows in sickness and in health and I will fill that married or divorced. I have taken the step of complete NC and I am sure as weeks go by that the disconnect will help change this, but right now he is in deep replay and I am no longer asking my children not to share what is happening.

We are in this together as a family
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 07:50:53 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#103: January 15, 2022, 07:52:07 AM
Quote
I think that is where it bothers me. I want advise on my XH behavior and not on mine. Im trying to understand him. I already understand myself! If that makes any sense at all!

It does.
Unfortunately the most honest advice may be of a flavour that you don’t much like.....that focusing on your xh’s behaviour is inherently focusing on things you cannot control and can no longer influence much. Whereas you CAN control YOUR behaviour. Which includes how much you choose to focus on your xh’s behaviour......it’s a bit of a circle, I know......

What advice do you feel you are actually looking for, Tornup?
And what would you do with it if you got it and could trust it came with a 100% guarantee?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#104: January 15, 2022, 08:04:07 AM
As I said,  just would prefer responses on like experiences not my actions.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#105: January 15, 2022, 08:09:05 AM
Quote
I am at the stage of trying to understand where he is. Do I continue my stand. Maybe because I am 59 and I dont have time to waste. Maybe if I see insight that he is getting worse or staying stagnant it is not worth my stand.

Fair enough.

This is my own view. I understand that something happened to change my husband in ways that I could never have imagined could happen. I did a lot of reading to try and "understand" and that's pretty normal.

As for standing, that is a different thing. If I can try and explain my point of view.

There is nothing really to indicate which MLCer gets through and returns home. Nothing.

I know that initially, I thought that standing would be to wait for him to get through his crisis and "wake up". But there was more to standing than that for me.

Somehow, I continue to believe that we shall always be married, nothing can change that in my mind. But he doesn't see it that way and he doesn't want me as his wife. He doesn't want me in his life except on the periphery. I get to choose if I allow that or not, and I do.

It's lonely and sometimes I yearn so much for companionship and love. But there is love for him, love for our family and that is stronger it seems than the need to find another.

I am 67 years old.

I think what I am saying is that standing is a very personal thing. It is my thing because it is my belief in the permanency of marriage and the fact is, I still love this man so there really isn't room for someone else.

But standing in no way will bring him back to our marriage.

So you will decide.....that is fact. No matter what others say or think, no matter what advice given, you will decide.

You mentioned that you came to this site to "save your marriage"...but that isn't how things work.

It is however a place to save yourself.

For those I know who are reconciled, they have created a new relationship. As we say many times, the old marriage is done..it is not there anymore.

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#106: January 15, 2022, 08:14:32 AM
As I said,  just would prefer responses on like experiences not my actions.

At the risk of upsetting anyone, basically this statement is saying that you just want responses people that will ruminate with you on how all the things that are unfair or hurt, and no responses meant to show you the kindness of learning from past experience or pointing out what might be hurting you. Jmho.

If you think about it, torn, posting about his life and asking people to only comment on him is not going to lead to any healing or forward movement, is it?
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#107: January 15, 2022, 08:37:43 AM
Maybe I am not explaining myself. Clearly I am not. I certainly dont feel compassion from these responses.  I have asked to be taken off board. I was looking for more of a place to share my journey and learn from other similar journeys. Not just how to repair and move on myself. I have a therapist for that.

So, yes maybe I was looking for more camaraderie on shared experiences and understanding of it. Not really” dont look at that torn” “ help yourself torn” believe me  at a year in I know exactly what brings pain. Also, I have been told. I think just like once we have told the MLCer no need to repeat. I get you think Im am doing things wrong.

I guess I was maybe looking for sisterhood and brotherhood to share the pain and experience and not tell me how to not see my pain and experience. What I have done is read and read and read. Including all of everyone pasts on this forum and questions you all asked in your journeys. So, I get now your trying to help others from making those mistakes. Emotions are what they are. We can listen and hear but only time and frankly pain will allow us to let go. Im just not fully ready to let go. Am I self inflicting pain on myself? Maybe. If I could do it any other way I would. I will listen to my therapist. Feel all the pain and you will move on. You are strong!! No one survives losing their 14 year old daughter to cancer and not come out strong.

My XH is in crisis from his daughter. I understand some point I have to save myself. I am just now trying to do that. It just happens it is at the peak of his replay and my kids realizing where he is. So I cant bow out yet! I am not weak, my XH is. I am trying to be strong for the both of us. I will handle my self inflicted pain until I decide not to. Right now I look and see what I want because that is what my gut is telling me. Slowly but surely I will be healed alone, with someone new or reunited. It will be years from now. Im going to tolerate my own mistakes until I get through it all.
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 09:15:09 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#108: January 15, 2022, 09:12:21 AM
As I said,  just would prefer responses on like experiences not my actions.

Ok. So it sounds as if you are simply looking for validation and confirmation, nothing else. Which is your right of course. But not really my bag as I feel it leads me to risk being an inadvertent enabler of folks getting lost in the long grass and I lost a lot of life to that so i’m a bit sensitive to the cost of it  :)

I’m sure others will show up if they feel able to offer what you are looking for right now, Tornup. I’ll just wish you well and step away.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#109: January 15, 2022, 09:14:59 AM
I asm sorry that our responses are causing you some distress.

I am taking a Cultural Intelligence course for a volunteer position that I have had for many years. The presenter said that there are 7.7 Billion people in the world, and that there are 7.7 billion ways of looking at things.

The focus is trying to understand when other's views are different than our own. But that doesn't mean we embrace them as being right.

Quote
So I cant bow out yet!
or ever if that is what you wish.

I continue to engage with my husband on many levels....have never cut contact with him and most likely never will.

I have had people write things on my thread that upset me....nobody can "tell" me what is right or wrong...however, I also have benefited from the information and yes I have made some life long friends here.

As always Torn, do what is right for you!  There are so many layers to go through, so many things to unwrap about what we believe to be true.....it's a lifetime journey for sure.

Whatever you decide, you are always welcomed on HS anytime.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#110: January 15, 2022, 09:41:59 AM
Xyzcf- thank you. I have appreciated being on the forum as well. I think when 1 response upsets someone ( no matter the reason) and then multiple people then come and post telling you basically the same as the first it is not necessary. Its been stated. So, I am doing me. My post was not about my actions. It was trying to find if others had a history of H overspending and how that evolved.
I am an open book. I think others dont share as openly, because of exactly this reason.

We know sometimes we are irrational. Its an insane and irrational experience. We get it!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#111: January 15, 2022, 10:04:11 AM
TornUp like others said I am sorry you are not getting what you need or feel there is no compassion. I can only say I do feel compassion for where you are, and I am guessing every person who is posting here is doing out of caring and empathy and compassion. But only you know what you need.

There may be others here who may join you and give you what you need. I'll echo Treasur and wish you well and step away also. I also share her opinion that there is difference between compassion, caring and simply enabling. My parting thoughts are that its not about irrational vs rational, emotion vs knowledge. For me its about seeing how I feel, what I feel and knowing my true motivations.

Hope you find like minded people here who can support you and give you the feedback you seek.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#112: January 15, 2022, 10:21:04 AM
Marvin- I have been dealing with my husband depression since 2009. In the end. Seeing what he spends is the least of my concerns. Im not asking anyone to enable me to continue behavior again that you feel is wrong. I am not looking for same minded people. I don’t mind truth darts, but it was almost implied I was illegally doing something wrong and that hit a nerve. The post again was not how I got the information. The post was about his spending. We can keep spinning this, but I was asking for enablers. Anyone could say dont look??? I have posted many times how I am getting the information.

It is coming to me and I am legally on the accounts and it doesnt matter why or how or if I should do something about it. That wasnt my post??

Also some of the commentators are some I have learned the most from . Treasur has been one I have looked for and listened to the most. So, maybe I dont agree with  some of you today. It happens!!
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 10:25:18 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#113: January 15, 2022, 12:57:28 PM
Torn, just to let you know,  my former H spent more than I ever could have imagined.  To the point where he now doesn't own any property and I have no idea from where he gets income.  So in answer to your question about how that evolved, that's what happened.  He spent to the point that he stopped paying anything to me or the children even when they were still in school; I had to learn to step away; I had protected the children and myself as best as I could but it was still shocking in so many ways.  I just had to get on with it. 

I've been on this forum since it's inception; for a long time if someone posted what their MLCer was doing they would probably have received a response such as "yup, mind does/did that too".  I have a feeling that that is what you would like, I could be wrong. 

I still found out about things he spent on for something like 8 years after he left -- not that I necessarily went looking after a while (at first of course I was wondering WTH was going on), but things got back to me.  It stunned me; it took me years and years to get to the point of telling myself that it wasn't helpful, divorce or no divorce. 

It took me years to mentally separate; IMO having children of whatever age means it's even harder. 

So that is in a nutshell saying that yes, this has been my experience, and yes, it is definitely something that can happen.  I don't think that my saying so means I'm enabling anything. 

Everyone is right in saying that it doesn't help the LBS to focus on that, that seeing it makes it harder, etc.; I'll admit that at one year in I was still an absolute puddle on the floor and couldn't have "focused on myself" for anything.  You have powered through the practicalities in an impressive way, the rest takes longer.  I get that just because you are legally divorced, and did that very quickly, it doesn't mean that you are so easily able to suddenly completely change everything else.  We each have a different experience; for many the divorce comes at the end of a lot of processing and learning/understanding about MLC, for you it's happened first. 

I really don't think that anyone here is trying to be unkind; I still read threads and learn; the mood on the forum also changes from time to time.   I'm sure if I were to write now some of the things that I wrote years ago the responses would be very different. 

I, too, look for Treasur's posts; I find great wisdom there. 
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#114: January 15, 2022, 01:25:26 PM
Trustandlove- Thank you. Appreciate your response. Hey, It’s not that I don’t understand where Marvin, NAS or Treasur are coming from. I think it’s that was not my post. They have told me before to stop focusing on my XH. I do get it!!

 I guess I was looking for an open discussion on spending. I thought part of this process is learning. If we never talk about out MLCer then there would be not much to this sight. So, I am sharing what I am seeing. For me and for others. To document the craziness for others to see, so when they come across it they don't feel insane. If we don’t share the MLC antics then there wouldnt be a way to see maybe who comes back , who doesnt. Maybe their is common threads, heck we know there are. There wouldnt be clinging boomerangs, vanishers…..

That is all by evaluating what the MLC is doing. That is all I am trying to do. My XH left in 2018 and moved back 10 months later. If I knew the. What I know now I dont think he would have left again. So, I am going to share everything. I just am an open book. I may be making mistakes. I have to go with my gut. I do get EVERYTHING that is advised and shared. So much that I think that repeating it to me at this point is pointless. I have to follow what my heart and mind is telling me. I am only hurting me.
  • Logged
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

N

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#115: January 15, 2022, 02:23:43 PM
My former husband desperately begged me to sell our home (to ostensibly buy something elsewhere, while hiding the fact that he’d been lying to me for some time about handling the mortgage payments, which he’d insisted on handling), and then slowly-then-very-VERY quickly spent ALL the savings, accrued triple digit credit card debt and also gambled the retirement on failed businesses and $ for his affair. I found all of this out a year after bd, when he left me in the apartment I had given up my house for (the only “home” I’d ever known), ended the lease without telling me (not realizing he needed my signature) and left me with 2 weeks to find a new place to live between Christmas and new year’s.
 I then put the meager remainder of money at that time towards wasted time trying to divorce him while he spun incredibly insane excuses, stalled, hid, and then ultimately vanished, leaving me penniless and, unbeknownst to me until it was far too late, without health insurance…all of which may have been fixable if a serious cancer diagnosis hadn’t come along at the exact wrong moment.

I am grateful every single day that in the time leading up to that cancer diagnosis, I had taken my eyes off of him and started taking care of myself only. Because I got to that point thanks to myself, therapy and the generous time taken by many members of this forum who told me hard truths from my very first day on this site. (i’m not going to name anyone by name because I don’t want to accidentally leave anyone out, but y’all know who you are and know I’m grateful).
And  if I hadn’t shifted my focus, hard to believe, but that diagnosis and everything since could have been even more devastating.

All it takes is a couple of catastrophic events all at once to turn a life completely upside down. I shudder to think anyone on this forum could be me under the right-wrong circumstances.

If back then, when it was still early for me as well, I were still watching him and keeping an eye on what he was doing and spending on himself or other people or whether he was getting subjectively better or subjectively worse etcetera, I think the emotional toll would’ve literally killed me.

Everything he did leading up to BD and at BD was damaging, devastating, and some of it downright criminal. Everything that has happened since then have been difficult life circumstances that I need to get through somehow, on my own, without him.

If I’m being honest, I don’t know how sharing all of this right now is helping you, torn. Yes, you get to read all of the terrible things that my former husband did to me. What does it mean to your situation or anyone else’s? Imo it means nothing. My situation has no bearing on the outcome of anyone else’s situation (and I’m sure a lot of people are thanking God for that lol).

I’m still dealing with Covid and a whole lot of heavy things that have kept me from being able to get the amount of sleep that I need due to having Covid, so I’m pretty foggy and I lost my train of thought several times during the writing of this. I know I had some key thoughts that I have already forgotten that would bolster what I’m trying to say. But hopefully the Gist still comes through. I will always give the advice constantly to take the focus off the MLCer because watching them leads absolutely nowhere. I didn’t want to hear that advice either in my first year or so, but I don’t even want to think about how much worse off I would’ve been emotionally if I didn’t.

Am I just one completely anomalous cautionary tale? Maybe. You may think my particular journey could never happen to you (the collective you)…I thought that too before it, you know, happened to me.

This was very uncharacteristically long winded of me. Which is how you know that I am deadly serious when I say that watching him, no matter what reason you have, will not lead anywhere productive.
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#116: January 15, 2022, 02:56:35 PM
Nas- thank you . I am total agreement that we need to turn away. I really get it!!! My kids work for the same company as their Dad. I worked their for 25 years. Heck I started it all. I can not agree more with what Marvin, Treasur, Xyzcf and You have stated about focusing on me. There are just going to be times its impossible. I have kids. Grown yes, but even more shocking for them as adults to see the drastic change in their Dad. I have asked them not to mention him, but sometimes they just need to share with their mom.

As my crazy MLCer said once, you have to keep it together. They need one sane parent. One thing he said that is true. I think when we share out stories we dont feel so alone. Everyone knows detach, GAL , but we can only do what we can do. And once we are ready little by little we move to that. I honestly have made huge moves towards this. Remember, I did a very quick divorce. He helped NADA. So now the small details are what have to be addressed. I forwarded these notifications for months, because frankly it is all he had to take care of and I gave him all the tools to do so. I was mad and exhausted and wanted him to do it. He is not. So, now I will start taking care of it.

Thank you for sharing today. It is helpful. All details are helpful. I think everyone struggles with how can this be my H/W so any craziness shared confirms that we are not alone. And you showed compassion under a exhausted state in your own fog to do that. You didnt need to, but you did. It speaks volume’s  for who you are.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#117: January 18, 2022, 10:02:49 AM
Hi Torn,

I just wanted to send encouragement that there is no right and wrong when it comes to dealing with our MLCer.   There is just forward progress over time with ups and downs along the way.   Hope you are having a great week.   Chiefs/Bills this weekend is going to be an epic battle.

HF
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W - 42
M - 46
Together 19 years, M 17
2 kids
BD - July 2020
W Left Home - January 2021
W Filed for D - May 2021
D Final - Jan 2022

M
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#118: January 18, 2022, 01:04:42 PM
Thank you HF- Doing my best !!  No contact at all for 27 days, so making progress.
Yes, I am selling my tickets. Hoping they go to the next round. Last weekend was epic. Great ore party for season ticket holders. Felt like a celebrity. Son brought 2 friends and I brought 1. It was good. 7th game I have flown in for. Getting exhausted!! Nothing is better than a Chiefs game. It has saved my sanity this past year and my XH gave me all the post season tickets and he pays, so even better!! The tickets sold for this game I’m using the money for my therapy!!  I feel he should pay for my therapy and this seems the perfect way !! Hahaha
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#119: January 18, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
Torn- that's awesome! I sold my H tractor and some of his tools to pay for my therapy...so hey! Good call! As you know our stories are sooooo similar and all I can say is do what you gotta do. We are all just doing our best for our individual situations. I have no idea what my H is spending money on...just that he thinks he's broke all the time because he has to pay alimony and child support (an amount he came up with and strangely enough was way above what the court would have awarded me. My attorney said if he's offering that number...sign the settlement papers! so i did). Other than that...who knows. I'm guessing he's not sticking to a budget or being super conservative with his spending but only time will tell. Sucky thing is- it was all his choice. He chose to award me XX amount of money. And he chose to give me proceeds to our property sales. He was just so lost in the fog or anxious to get away that he didn't think real hard about actual amount of money involved. Both of our attorneys were a bit shocked - but goes to show you how desperate they are or how sure they think they are. Craziness.

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YOU keep interrupting his crisis. YOU keep him distracted with all your questions, statements and observations. YOU keep him from facing himself, from feeling the pain of missing his family (until he is ready to do something about it...or not ). YOU are keeping him from fully feeling and facing the man he is.  Leave him 100% to his own devices and crisis ...100% shut it all down.  Bow out...its not about you! I sometimes feel they have stranded themselves on some deserted island. They have done that to themselves as a result of their own actions, choices, behaviors. They need to figure out how to get off the island...the messy painful island they put themselves on. Stop taking him fresh water, food, homemade baking, clean clothes etc....why would he try to make himself better?

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#120: January 19, 2022, 04:27:41 AM
Kelly- Yep!!! Same here. I said you want to go and you want it now?? Here are my terms. He actually offered me more. I even told him I would never get this in court. He did not care!!! Signed it all no problem. My attorney said DO IT!!!!!! He is not going to agree to this later. I would never have divorced that quick except, Frankly the offer was to good lose when I couldn’t guarantee he would come to his senses.

It is crazy!!!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#121: January 27, 2022, 05:03:05 AM
I have nothing new to say, but just a repost of advise circa “Barbie”  that sunk in and I am 35 days into. Sometimes advise and observations are so good they are worth repeating and I have gotten so much good advise from so many.

Quote
YOU keep interrupting his crisis . YOU keep him distracted with all your questions , statements and observations . YOU keep him from facing himself , from feeling the pain of missing his family ( until he is ready to do something about it...or not ) . YOU are keeping him from fully feeling and facing the man he is.  Leave him 100% to his own devices and crisis ...100% shut it all down.  Bow out...its not about you !.   I sometimes feel they have stranded themselves on some deserted island . They have done that to themselves as a result of their own actions, choices, reactions, behaviours . They need to figure out how to get off the island ...they messy painful island they put themselves on. Stop taking him fresh water, food, homemade baking, clean clothes etc....why would he try to make his own way off the island
  • Logged
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

K
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#122: January 27, 2022, 05:42:49 AM
LOVE that and needed to hear it to reinforce my approach to his crisis. So succinct and to the point- I might have to steal it and add it to my daily readings! Or at least add it to my signature on here! Thank you for sharing
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YOU keep interrupting his crisis. YOU keep him distracted with all your questions, statements and observations. YOU keep him from facing himself, from feeling the pain of missing his family (until he is ready to do something about it...or not ). YOU are keeping him from fully feeling and facing the man he is.  Leave him 100% to his own devices and crisis ...100% shut it all down.  Bow out...its not about you! I sometimes feel they have stranded themselves on some deserted island. They have done that to themselves as a result of their own actions, choices, behaviors. They need to figure out how to get off the island...the messy painful island they put themselves on. Stop taking him fresh water, food, homemade baking, clean clothes etc....why would he try to make himself better?

b
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#123: January 30, 2022, 09:14:53 AM
Tornup ..."Circa Barbiedoll " here. I am glad that my metaphoric example had an impact on you and helps remember what we are trying to achieve. I have run across many writings that have had direct impact on me and frequently come to mind when I most need them. For me, reactive anger has been a real issue and I have struggle with this for years. A lady in Al-anon once said ." anger is like a candle in the wind. It blows out the light of all reason " . I cannot tell you how many times this appears in my thinking and I am able to manage myself and my emotions better. Because it is absolutely true.  It all helps just that little bit doesn't it? 
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#124: February 01, 2022, 09:19:08 AM
Barbie- it does all help.

I have gone 40 days now with no contact at all. It has helped so much for my own calm and also to reflect. My XH was so needy of me as a security blanket since leaving, but has not had a need to try and reach out in any way. RCR considered him a clinging boomerang even though he never reached out, but responds to me immediately if I do. He had said in the past that he didnt feel he had the right to contact me because he left. RCR said he has a high level of respect for me. I used to believe that, but now I may have just been used. Used until he was secure in my replacement in life for him.

So, I feel as these 40 days have given me much to reflect on for myself and on XH behavior. He has always been an extreme avoidant, people pleaser and a lost identity person. I do find it crazy that they leave and start a whole new life when they already dont know who they are. Seems counter productive on finding yourself. My XH used my personality and strength as his own for so long. Now he is with someone he cant draw any strength or wisdom from, but maybe that in itself gives him strength and what he feels is an identity to call his own.

He has continued to live his life only with OW and her daughters. He has messaging contact with his kids. All service level. He never asked his S29 to meet up when he was in town last month. He did spend it with her daughters. I just will never get it. Our anniversary of our divorce if Feb 10. He told my son he will be in town Feb 9. &. 10. He did not ask him to go out. We will see if that happens.

My therapist thought it would be a good idea for S29 to talk with his Dad on not having a relationship in person for a year. When I brought it up to S29 he said, No, I am not going there. I said I understand. It probably would do no good. He will engage when he decides to. It’s still now the most heartbreaking aspect of this. Hoe a loving father is just throwing it all away. Spending time with a new family and forgetting his own.

I honestly dont see that he will ever stop running. I feel he has been avoiding finding who he is his whole life. Jumping on the coat tails of others. When our D14 and his father died within 3 months of each other I think it was to much to overcome. I dont think he knows who he is and I dont think he will dig in to find out.

I myself have realized how much of myself I lost. How I disconnected from life for him. He was my whole focus. I am learning to not be a fixer. That is a huge thing for me. I just wanted to always fix everything for everyone. Since I was a child. My focus is on me now. I try very hard to listen now without having an opinion unless asked. I an also learning not to engage in anything that brings me stress. I feel 2022 is going to be a huge year for me. I still have my sad moments. When I think what has been lost, but I am also able to look at what was with much clearer eyes.

I have been a one woman show for 13 years after the loss of D14. I had my own loss of my child, but my focus was still on him and when I think of how he repaid me with disrespect and lack of empathy it is making it easier by the day move on. Its been such a long and painful journey. So much more to work through. Yet, Realizing he really is just a tumbleweed rolling down the desert field. Frankly Im tired of the dust storm clouding my vision. Im just now trying to move to clearer pastures!! Aren’t we all??
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 09:30:30 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

C
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#125: February 01, 2022, 10:46:49 AM
I love the name change, and the way that you are turning your focus toward yourself and your own growth and healing. You seem to be on a wonderful path for yourself. I always appreciate reading your updates… it has truly been a joy to see you overcome the trauma inflicted on you and to journey toward finding your best path forward.
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#126: February 01, 2022, 11:27:11 AM
Torn:

Quote
He has always been an extreme avoidant, people pleaser and a lost identity person. I do find it crazy that they leave and start a whole new life when they already dont know who they are. Seems counter productive on finding yourself. My XH used my personality and strength as his own for so long. [/quote.].

We have the exact same words to describe our husbands . I am not sure that many can understand this at all. When we say "lost identity" we will get looks from others ( not that we say this to many) as if we are utterly insane or that we endlessly look for excuses for men that stumble in huge devastating ways. We did not know this when we married these men and there would never be any possible way to "know".   Perhaps I have said this before but I rememeber at BD my H insisted on seeing a counsellor. That in itself is nuts because he wanted "out of the marriage asap".  Naturally we get a counsellor who has no clue what to do with a man that mostly sits in silence and refuses to "work on the marriage". Would not commit to 3 months to work on things ...he simply wanted out and had wanted out for years apparrently . He was in a full blown affair at the time so I would guess the land of limerance and lust had his brain in a twist. Ugh. This counsellor asked to see me alone. She was the one who clearly told me that he was having an "identity crisis".  I remember saying " what identity ? He has copied me for years ...he has no real identity of his own".  She raised her eyebrows and said " what better reason for a crisis?".   No identity formation or an incomplete identity is for the professionals to figure out and way above my pay grade ... but I do know without question that this is where the issues lie with my H.  No question. I would go so far as to say that my H had no "pre-trauma " identity as he was a baby...he was born , raised, lived, breathed and witnessed extreme trauma. He was abused in all imaginable ways. He should not have made it this far and done remarkably well in some areas of his life ... he is a survivor . Had he decided to be a drinker or use drugs , I am told he would likely be in prison as he has huge internal anger.
He is an extreme people pleaser ...and that makes us ( the wives) happy because there is nothing they would not do for us or their children . They are "good husbands " because we have no clue that this is a trauma response.  We just think they are great guys . My daughters have enjoyed a dad that would do anything ANYTHING for them to this day . The best dad ever ! . Except ( of course) ...he never said NO to them ( he couldn't), never disciplined ( ever) , never denied them anything , protected them ( from me ..the big bad disciplinarian) and jumped like he was on fire if they called him.   Any finally...one day at 55 years old...he says " I am firetrucking sick of doing everything for firetrucking everybody else...I want out". He explodes .  These people pleasing "nice-guys" with ill formed identities,a history of trauma ( that has been hidden by deep shame) and that have avoided all parts of themselves for all their lives are the stuff MLC is made of .   That is the perfect storm . We saw none of this coming ...these avoidant men are always "fine" and stay behind walls ...we never could "know them " as they have no clue who they are themselves.     My H did blow apart in a way I still feel shock to remember . He returned to our family , marriage ( sort of) and I have no idea why.  Most never return. My H was 100% determined to NEVER return and absolutely told me that repeatedly . Said marrying me was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made . Blah blah . I NEVER expected him to ever turn around and want to desperately come home. No clue.  He is still in crisis in my opinion. But what do I really know ? 
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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#127: February 01, 2022, 12:23:55 PM
Sorry Torn.. seems I went off on a little rant and hijacked your thread . It sometimes happens when I believe someone has the same experience as me.  But I do apologize .

Congrats on your 40 days. I truly know how hard that is for you and your family. I am proud to say you are amazing despite all the roadblocks that have happened along the way. Its been excruciatingly difficult for you..that does not go un-noticed .

I wonder if you can talk about this a bit. Of course you can decline and that will be perfectly acceptable as well. I am curious about this .

Quote
My XH used my personality and strength as his own for so long.
.
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#128: February 01, 2022, 12:35:03 PM
Curiosity- thank you so much. What a tusami we all have to live through, ugh

Barbie- I think the funny thing in my situation is I always saw the insecure man with no identity. The man not willing to open up and talk. What was past was past. I think in some ways that was in some ways very attractive. Old girlfriends??? Nope, dont want to talk about it. Family, not much to say. Trying to find out what he liked or wanted to do was like pulling teeth. Whatever I wanted to eat, do was what he wanted.

I worked so very hard to help him open up. Try to be his own person. Build his confidence. He went from an hourly employee to a VP of a very large company. He would not be there without me. He hid behind me for decades. I think he started feeling unimportant behind me. He picked someone who would not question anything. That would be impressed with anything and everything he does.

He is being used and also is not handling his finances due to it. He should be growing in maturity if this new found identity was working, but he is not. We have never in 33 years have any contact. Never thought I would see the day, but here we are. I honestly can’t believe he is willing to live his life without me, but it appears to be exactly what he has decided.

He has always been kind. Has never blamed me for anything. Has always said something changed in him. He is not worthy of me. What I have finally come to accept is I could have done some things better, but in the end I was a very good wife and whats more I have been an even better ex-wife. Now, I am cutting the cord. Moving on. Living my life. I can’t wait for him to wake up and realize his life is not working. If he ever does ( which I dont think he will) I am not sure where I will be. I know I will always be at least open for a friendship. I spent 31 years with him.  3 children shared and 1 lost. I would prefer he be in it in some capacity, but it will now take an effort from him.
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 01:34:49 PM by TornupNOMORE »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

M
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#129: February 01, 2022, 01:02:03 PM
Quote
My XH used my personality and strength as his own for so long
Can you talk about this??
Barbie- you did not hijack anything. Thank you for the response. absolutely, I will talk about it. I think I reflected a little on my response above, but in general he was insecure, yet had a “cocky” attitude he hid behind. I was in management and he was an hourly. I went into a new aspect of the company. From str to distribution. I brought him over. Worked with him. Trained him. He moved to management. At night we talked. I advised him. He used my words often as his own. My reflections, suggestions. Frankly, even after he left he still went over work issues with me.

He has said himself that he hid behind me. That he was only who he was due to me. I am a very strong personality. Anything I put my mind to I accomplish. He is very competitive. I think he feels defeated under me. Only after our daughter and his Dad died. He no longer could hide behind his cocky attitude.

Even after he left conversations we had I heard repeated to me in conversations he had with others as his own words. I think it never bothered him I was strong, intelligent and a go getter. Something changed with those losses. He became very weak. Everything I did and said now became a put down in his mind vs a partner helping another partner. In the end if I asked him where a tape measure was because it was not in its normal place he would start crying because he had not put it away correctly. There was nothing I could say without him crying. He felt judged by me. He didnt say it, but his reactions did.

He is in MLC but I also think he is in a severe psychotic break. It’s devastating. I know there is no one that will put in the effort I did with him out of love, but I just dont think he will ever work on his issues. He did go to therapy, but when it got rough he couldn’t run quick enough. He has nightmares of our cpr efforts on our daughter and he has the guilt of his coping skills ( or lack of ) I think there is comfort for him in having OW and daughters looking to him as a provider and savior.

I have said to him. Wherever you go there you are. He does not see it that way at all. He has a lifetime history of cutting people out snd moving on snd never looking back. When he left he said he told the psychiatrist that he didnt think he could live without me, but in October I said if you move in with her our relationship is over. Is that what you want? Can you live the rest of your life without me? He said, that’s what I am choosing.

He is very specific in his word choices and phrasing. He never will hang up a phone call from me, ever!! We talked sometimes for 4-5 hours. It is very confusing. I do think he is rebellious with me, but not to my face if that makes sense. He will NOT be mean to me. He always still ( well havent had any contact for 40 days) only will say lovely things to me. Telling me he appreciated everything he had with me but didnt deserve any of it.

He has told me many times that my opinion is the only opinion that matters. How funny when I have been the one left and treated like I dont matter at all. I feel he will be one of those that stays stuck, but one that constantly looks back and misses what he had. I think he clearly see’s and wants it, but feels there is no going back and him surviving. He once also said a few month back that he hopes to one day be the man that makes me proud. What is crazy is I found a text message to the EA woman that she did not reciprocate and he said that to her. Diminished everything for me. First time I felt like not only could all the OW be anybody, but maybe I was as well. Hard pill to swallow after 32 years. I dont know if he is capable of really loving anyone. I think that has been the hardest thing to absorb. I really thought he loved me and I was special. Im not so sure anymore

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 01:42:06 PM by TornupNOMORE »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#130: February 01, 2022, 02:00:23 PM
Barbie- I wanted to give you an extreme example of my husband using/ hiding behind me. 15 years ago I was to get a service award at work. They give you a certificate, pin and gift card for years in. I believe  it was my 20th. The VP at the time ( a position my XH now holds) gave them out. I was called up and a velvet box was given to me. I didn’t open it because I assumed the company Pin was in it. The VP said open it. When I opened it there was a diamond ring inside ( fake, but didnt know at the time) I was so confused. Why was I getting a diamond ring and not a pin?  I said, what?? I’m so confused. The vp said I dont know . I was told to give it to you. So, I stood in front of hundreds of people totally confused. I turned around to look at my XH who ran the building and the event and the look of terror on his face was evident.

So, I said ok. Well, thank you. We took pictures and I sat down. Heart beating. So confused. When the event ended people came up and said what was it a ring?? Did XH give it to you?? I said I have no idea??? They said oh that’s so sweet… well, I go home and XH comes home and I said what was that. He said, I was trying to make it fun. I know your quick on your feet. I thought your reaction would be oh you shouldn’t have…. And everyone would laugh.

I said??? This was my 20 year service award? You chose that to use me to make the event more successful? You thought throwing a joke in on a award would be ok?? Then when it didn't go as planned I turned to you and you cowered . He said, I didn't know what to do. It didn't go as I planned. I said, well it wasn’t my plan to fail, so when it did you just left me there humiliated at an event that was to acknowledge me???

So, extreme incident, but just to show you that he used me in so many ways to make himself look better, for events to be better. All until it didn’t make him feel better anymore. I am still baffled by that choice. It still makes my stomach turn and I still have that fake ring in a drawer somewhere. I should send it to him 😉

So, I think when he started feeling worthless ( as he says) all the medical issues. Specially his ED ( which still amazes me he started a new relationship and found someone who is dealing with that. He needs surgery to fix) He started EA’s to make himself feel more manly. He rationalized he wasnt doing anything wrong as long as it was just texting, but when I found out it was another blow to his ego. Another thing I was pointing out he did wrong. He just cant look at me anymore. At this point someone may be using him for his money, but they are enabling and letting him do whatever he wants. I think its where he will stay. Sad but true
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 02:25:10 PM by TornupNOMORE »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#131: February 03, 2022, 04:11:05 AM
Just found out my XH is on a disney resort vacation for OW’s other daughters birthday. He took the other daughter on a vacation last month for her birthday . Not sure how my kids are going to continue to hear and deal with this. He is clearly going deeper in replay with escape, avoid, and extravagant spending. Therapist said my no contact needed to happen. He needs to fully live with his choices and decide if he can dig himself out and solve his internal issues or not. He has not seen his own son since September. He will be in town next week on what is the 1 year anniversary of our divorce( he told my son) I hope he makes an attempt to see his kids outside of work, but I think he is showing he cant face them with this enormous guilt.

I personally feel he is never making out of this. He was a good man, but he is piling to much on his guilt trip train to get off now. He will either continue or derail in the most horrific way. I’m very glad I now went through with the divorce and secured my financial future without any doubts at all. I’m terribly sad he is on this route. No longer for me, but for my kids. I don’t have a lot of insights anymore as I am just be made aware of things here and there, but it is getting worse and in a strange way it is making it so much easier to move on.
At some point the damage and destruction is so catastrophic that you almost appreciate that they left you. That is where I am at least.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#132: February 03, 2022, 01:12:59 PM
Quote
Just found out my XH is on a disney resort vacation for OW’s other daughters birthday. He took the other daughter on a vacation last month for her birthday . Not sure how my kids are going to continue to hear and deal with this. He is clearly going deeper in replay with escape, avoid, and extravagant spending.
.

These are the things we wish we never knew. It hurts . It hurts alot to have knowledge that a spouse carries on as if they have not a care, that this is all normal and lets just get on with our lives. We remember these things and if/when they return , we want to know how or why that could ever ever happen. I know my H took his OW for 4 days to a motel on a favorite island of mine , way up north. I knew it at the time as I found a receipt in the shredding box at home.  Well, lets say I knew he was there, I never knew he had a women with him. He denied that sooo adamantly , I thought I was nuts. Yep, gaslighting for sure but still I knew he would never go away "alone to think".  Not ever.  I wanted to know how he could EVER do such a thing and come home give me his dirty laundry and climb into bed with me ??. HOW? . Its better to never know this stuff as there is never an answer that will make that okay...not in a million years can words make it ok.  I am sorry you know.  I will likely never again go to this motel on this island . I just could not.

Quote
He is clearly going deeper in replay with escape, avoid, and extravagant spending.
.

Yes. I surely agree with this . No healthy , mature man displays such disregard for his history, his own children and for his financial future. Wreckless and immature way to feel appreciated, liked, admired etc etc..  Its all fake and temporary of course but in terms of the limbic brain and immediate gratification , he thinks its working for him.  Desperate attempts to not "feel" whatever it is he needs to eventually "feel".   My h had so much cash on him it was insane. And admitted in therapy it made him feel like a "big shot " so to impress little ole OW.  The money he spent ...we will never recover it. 

Quote
Therapist said my no contact needed to happen.
.

100% in agreement. Keep it going... ,   I was no contact with my H once he left our home. Zero. Never wanted to ever lay eyes on him , never text him, no emails and honestly never answered him if he reached out ( rare) . I was that traumatised .

Quote
but I think he is showing he cant face them with this enormous guilt.
.

A normal healthy person would feel guilt. I doubt your H feels much of anything. What he allows himself to feel would only be the positive ( you know...the fun disney stuff) . Likely has avoiding negative feelings down to a fine art. My H felt nothing...no guilt . Nothing. So he has said.

Quote
but it is getting worse and in a strange way it is making it so much easier to move on.
.

True for me as well at the time. There was "proof" that he was utterly and completely out of his mind...













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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#133: February 03, 2022, 08:04:23 PM
Barbie-

Quote
No healthy , mature man displays such disregard for his history, his own children and for his financial future. Wreckless and immature way to feel appreciated, liked, admired etc etc..  Its all fake and temporary of course but in terms of the limbic brain and immediate gratification , he thinks its working for him.  Desperate attempts to not "feel" whatever it is he needs to eventually "feel".   My h had so much cash on him it was insane. And admitted in therapy it made him feel like a "big shot " so to impress little ole OW.  The money he spent ...we will never recover it
This is so spot on!!! Thank you
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#134: February 04, 2022, 05:00:40 AM
From some old archives, but worth re-posting as this is exactly true on my XH and what he ran from and now is repeating. They don’t work on themselves internally. Always looking for outside validation.

RCR said if you are not a happy giver, then you are not giving at all 

Stayed said, Your husband is a MARTYR... or at least fancies himself as a martyr... nobody gets pleasure from sacrificing themselves for others... unless it is truly giving you PLEASURE, then you are using to WIN THEIR LOVE.... admiration... attention... that is not HAPPY GIVING... that is using yourself to manipulate others or to feed your own ego. 

I think you know this and you are tired of him making you feel like you are using him, taking advantage of him.  You have not been honey... he allows, even encourages everybody to let him be everybody's Joe Boy.  He thought he wanted to be that sort of person but obviously he doesn't, or he would not have DONE WHAT HE DID.   

It has to be stopped.  If it isn't, he will become resentful and unhappy again... and he will go looking for somebody else to make him feel better about himself.  Worse yet, You will find herself becoming lonelier and lonelier, but never feel like you’re are a team.  A part of each other.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#135: February 04, 2022, 06:55:03 AM
Wow.  This is spot on for my H.  Hopefully he figures it out. 
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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#136: February 04, 2022, 01:01:54 PM
Sometimes with times the clouds part and the sun comes through and those who may not have seen things clearly start to see the storm for what it is and was.

Today my (XH brother) my BIL messaged me. He said, I recall the biblical analogy between building on rock vs sand. It seems everything my brother is doing is merely temporal. Sadly, if/when the dust settles he will come to a lot of regret for time lost with what truly matters. That's not a good legacy.

Then my MIL messaged me,I’ve decided to give him some space & not push him. Hopefully he will start to miss his family &  make a move to reconnect.

I have felt forever and a day that no one could see or understand. XH was only showing himself to me, but they are starting to see and I don’t feel so alone and crazy for the first time in a long time. Things are really been turning for the better. Not for XH, no he is still a boiling over pot of nothing good. For everyone else however, those who have loved him all is getting better. More realization and understanding that it is his sh$$ storm and we will just hang on to our protective covering and he will either dry out or he wont.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#137: February 05, 2022, 05:22:11 AM
I found this view/opinion on how do midlife crisis end interesting, so thought I would share.

How do midlife crises end?
It depends on several factors: the person's gender, the person's age, the person's stamina, the strength of the support network, where in the process the person is, how difficult the behavior becomes.

Again, midlife crisis is a special kind of hell when the person going through it thinks that everyone around (loved ones, kids, partners) are against them.
So, they turn to any and all means to alleviate the pain.

The duration varies - yet specific question is about the outcome.
How does it end?

Well, it depends on gender, mostly.
Males and females have vastly different reasons for spiraling out of control during the midlife crisis: not that usual explanation that each person is different but the actual gender-based differences which underline the nature of the crisis.

If this person is relatively young - meaning the person has a life partner, or perhaps young kids, which means that there is a lot to lose if succumbing to the debilitating urges of the crisis, then there is a chance of a recovery and a return to the family.

If the person is on the outer age range for the crisis, where kids are grown/out of the house, the mortgage is paid off, assets are accumulated, and there's less to lose (other than separating equity gained in the course of the marriage), the recovery will be questionable.

Outcomes have a lot to do with the person's stamina of keeping life in a more or less stable form: if a person is prone to hot-headed decisions and sporadic outbursts and lack of self-control (such as quitting a job without any pre-planning), this can lead to the ruin.

If a person is more stable - returning back to that "a lot to lose" statement - the person will be acting out, yet will remain attached to the previously existing life and people, and has a greater likelihood of rejoining the normal world.

This is why the support network cannot be understated.
If this person's partner and kids (if any), are waiting patiently for this storm to pass, and if they can tolerate the outrageous and at times inexcusable behavior (acting out will be brought on a whole new level, even another planet during this time) - and if this all is treated as just acting out, a temporary mental incapacity which will pass, the reconciliation and the recovery are highly possible.

The difficulty of the behavior depends on what the partner/kids can tolerate. Some things can be written off, some can be overlooked, others must be reprimanded. It is up to the partner to dictate the rules and establish boundaries - but only if the partner is able to stomach the outcome.

And then again, we are back to the stages of the midlife crisis.
If the person is almost out of these woods - and I am referring to the » The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief - and is almost on the last stage of acceptance, the outcome is positive.

If the person never moves past the denial (very first phase) or moves forward only to bounce back (regression), it all depends on how intensely determined this person is in their actions: some ruin themselves, others later wake up to see what they've done, and some never wake up to this option.

If the midlife crisis is left alone, it will rapidly progress from bad to worse. It will cause tremendous pain.
And it all depends on how strong the partner is - since the person going through the crisis is engulfed in flames of rage and anger, this person is not rational (regardless of their IQ level), this person can't make proper decision, and this person is basically incapacitated.

This is why the partner is the one setting the boundaries, enforcing them, checking how much will be/won't be tolerated, what is acceptable and what is not, and how to mitigate the damage that is done.

There will be damage, and lots of it - and person causing the damage won't see any of it until either the union is dissolved or they wake up from this horrific nightmare.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#138: February 05, 2022, 09:23:18 AM
Torn there was some good info in that, however the only thing they didn't touch on, or I missed it, is what type of MLCer they are.

There is a huge difference between... say a Low-Energy Wallower and a Vanisher.
Or between a Low-Energy and a High-Energy MLCer.
Many Wallowers don't leave home and they live in more of a fantasy world and have no energy to do much, where the High-Energy type lives out their fantasy.

Once a Vanisher leaves, you have no way of setting boundaries because most of the time you don't even know where they are.

Not that anyone of them are any better or worse than another, just different.  ::)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#139: February 05, 2022, 11:47:43 AM
Thunder- so true. I have yet to find something that wraps it all up and never will, because like you said there are so many variances. Always interesting to find something this in-depth, however outside the forum because it is not something acknowledged
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#140: February 05, 2022, 12:10:49 PM
Yes, I used to always look for information on this crisis.  None really had it all.
Some were good articles, others were pretty bad.

The thing I found was, mine was a Wallower, and there isn't very much information on them, I suppose because they are not the "norm."   Even on this site there isn't much information.

Wallowers seem much more mild with their symptoms, but they do tend to just shut their emotions off, as if they had an off switch and they show much more depression.

I guess none of them are easy to live with, huh?
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#141: February 05, 2022, 01:39:06 PM
Thunder-

My XH was a low energy wallower when living with me and it was miserable. Couldn’t look me in the eyes, completely shut off, unable to handle a conversation, a-lot of listening to music and playing games in his ipod. It is what made me force him to move out the first time in 2018. He refused to go to talk to a therapist and I could not handle the shut down anymore. Since he left this time he seems to cycle between high energy replay to low energy wallower. Its like he exhausts himself. Recoups and starts again.

I am enthralled with understanding and learning about this crisis. I really wish I would have been a psychologist. It is something I have always been interested in. This situation has definitely brought my interest back into it. Im glad I am more content know and feel ok. I can no read to learn vs read to resolve. It continues to effect my kids which in turn affects me. Its like a mystery book you are trying to figure out, but all the clues keep throwing you off in how it ends 😜🤪😂🤣

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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#142: February 05, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Quote
I am enthralled with understanding and learning about this crisis. I really wish I would have been a psychologist. It is something I have always been interested in. This situation has definitely brought my interest back into it.
.

I am the same. I have done nothing but research, read, search for answers for years now. I think that the pain will go away once I find the answers to my questions and why this happened . I am wrong about that..I see that now.  For years I have been doing the oddest thing .  When a memory or painfull thoughts come into my mind , I quickly move my head as if trying to not be hit by some flying object.  In this case it is "flying thoughts" that still hurt so profoundly. As if physically jolting will stop the thoughts from entering my heart and mind.  I have been doing that for years....of course it fails everytime and I now appear to be some kind of spastic freak.

My H?  I have no idea if he would have been a wallower, vanisher or whatever.  I kicked him out through all the things his words broke in me and refused any contact. Refused to answer the phone . Never responded to anything he said and a dripping truth dart one day when he suddenly appeared. The dart contained words like ..  NEVER walk in here again, as long as you live. You do not live here and never will again, you are nothing to me , I NEVER want to lay eyes on you again..ever.  And I hate you like no other man that has walked in my life. ".  Yes.  Said all that and likely more. And all that before I knew he was having an affair with a family member. Yes..it got far worse.  So I have no idea what kind of MlC'er he would have been.

He did alot of damage verbally and monstery from February until I told him to get out in August.  And he left in under 5 minutes ..like he was waiting for my "snap-line".  He pushed me there.   Nearly 28 years married and he pushed me until I pushed back. He was always on high speed ..crawling out of his own painful skin, pacing , moving , antsy....the energy that came off him was that of an evil trapped animal . And then he would sleep for hours and hours and hours. I was afraid of him . He pushed me up against a post on the deck and would not release me. I did not know him. A final outburst at my youngest daughter and all bets are off.  He needed to go.  I remember thinking in the following week that for the 1st time in 3 decades I did not know where he was or heard his voice . His leaving changed me right down to the core and I have struggled to recover from that day to this.  They truly know not what they have done in changing other humans . They had no right.  But here we all are ..trying to understand and get back up.  And we will.
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#143: February 05, 2022, 03:52:23 PM
 Barbie- I think for me the interest in understanding it all is more to verify a few things. He would have done this no matter who he married and the OW could be anyone. It truly is all about him.  I think for so long I tried to understand why the switch flipped, how could he do this to me, where is the man I loved….all that can make you feel insane, so the reading and understanding some how for me answers questions that then I dont need to ask him any longer. Knowledge makes me feel sane!!

I feel sad for my kids now. I feel bad I picked this man and got it so wrong. My therapist said all you can do is be the best parent you can be. You're not responsible for XH. That is not how it feels. It feels that I picked him and he was a bad pick knowing what I know now. He is a very weak man. His actions will affect them forever. I hate that the most now. At the beginning when he left it was all about my pain, now its all about how will this continue to affect my kids. For me??? I was not the perfect wife, but I was an excellent one and I have been an even better XW. He was a very lucky man. Maybe someday he will see that and maybe he wont. I know the truth.

I feel good about moving on if that is what is in the cards. Que sara sara whatever will be will be the futures not ours to see….
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#144: February 05, 2022, 04:43:18 PM
Well Torn something RCR said, and I truly believe it, the type of MLCER they are does not change.

They can not be a Wallower and change to a High Energy, what you are seeing is a Wallower wanting to be high energy.  Party and live the high life but they can not sustain that for very long because they burn out really fast.  They do not have the energy for it.  I saw mine try that.

Barbie I do believe your H was a high energy Micer..."He was always on high speed ..crawling out of his own painful skin, pacing , moving , antsy....the energy that came off him was that of an evil trapped animal . And then he would sleep for hours and hours and hours."

The other thing we all need to keep on mind is, and it is painful, they may really not have been in a crisis at all.
I'm surely not saying they weren't but some spouses do just want out for what ever reason and it is not a midlife crisis.
That is something we all need to consider.

Maybe really examine your marriage.  Was the intimacy there?  If not, why not?
Some MLC spouses have claimed there was no intimacy for years.
Was that your marriage?

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« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 04:46:28 PM by Thunder »
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#145: February 05, 2022, 05:08:07 PM
Thunder- interesting on not switching. I thought I actually read they can change. I will look into that further. My XH was always an avoidant personality. Always cut people out and moved on. He does not allow people in easily. Even after 30 years I felt I didn’t know him the way I should after 30 years. Very insecure. Lack of identity.

Intimacy? Problem for years, but due to the death of our daughter and his father. That is when everything changed. Ed issues that require surgery, but he only came to find out after he left. I think he thought it was only his depression and possibly his loss of feelings or loss of passion.

I think my XH is a combo of clinical depression, MLC and medical issues. Just the perfect storm. It’s very sad. I think if he would have sought help early on we would not be where we are. Also, he is not only detaching from me, but his kids and mother and brothers…everyone. That is definitely a man in crisis. He head been running from himself his whole life. I think he doesn’t know where to begin to look to determine who he is. However, with that said. It is the reason I keep reading. As it has changed my life and my kids forever. I do want to make sure I understand what it is and not just assume.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Re: Sometimes your heart needs more time
#146: February 05, 2022, 05:56:00 PM
Torn it's like an Introvert changing into an Extrovert, it just doesn't happen.

Hon I think what you and your H went through is something so horrific I'm not sure many people would survive it.  Losing a child, I honestly can't imagine anything more heartbreaking....even a divorce wouldn't compare.  Nothing would compare.
I'm just sorry it happened to you and your family.

I would imagine the depression, and grief was different for all of you.
Possibly your XH is still dealing with this.



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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#147: February 05, 2022, 07:23:05 PM
Thunder -Thank you. Yes, I think he was always insecure and  when we lost our daughter he felt and took on that loss as his fault. He has nightmares of the morning of her loss and our cpr efforts on her. I think it is hard enough to lose a child but to be the ones trying to save her as her parents was just something he has not been able to get past. We ( his family ) are a reminder of the loss and the failure.

Its hard to imagine how you could be so devastated over the loss of a child that you stop engaging with your remaining children. That is where we are. Now he is off with OW and taking her and her daughters on vacations and things. Just a total escape. I cant imagine how my kids actually feel. It has to be devastating. I just ket them know he isnt right and if they need to talk I am here.

I just know I feel so much better now. I know I will be ok. It doesn't make the situation ok, but I finally feel somewhat at peace. The devastation is gone. I still have my moments, but for the most part I feel pretty settled that life goes on and I will be ok. I enjoy my time off now, my weekends, my alone time. Who would have thunk it???
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#148: February 06, 2022, 08:28:23 AM

Another basic outlook and view I found throughout my own journey on reading. Things I saved I want to share. I figured if I saved it ? Well, I must have connected in some way. Maybe these saved finds will be helpful or not for others. I have nothing new on my journey due to NC and detachment

MLC is thought to be built of certain things.

The seed - low self esteem suppressed, or not, from childhood.

The trigger - a significant emotional event like loss of a loved one, decline of a career at its peak, or just the inability at midlife to answer the eternal question "what about me?"

The fuel - depression depression depression, throughout the crisis ... defended against with self medication such as alcohol, partying, drugs, spending, OP

The crash - I think you refer to the final stages of the crisis when the MLCer sees nothing they have done or tried has provided them true inner happiness.

They see the carnage in the wake of their journey. They realize they have burned Rome and is no home to return to, and no one to go home to. They come face to face with the stark reality of their mortality, and see they are alone in it. It can be more than some of them will be able to bear according to various publications, resulting in suicide.

I question the magnitude of that preminition. I do believe they will see the result of their actions. I think it will be very painful for some. Other more pragmatic MLCers will likely just accept that this is where they are, and where they will begin the remainder of their second adulthood.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#149: February 06, 2022, 12:42:23 PM
Quote
The seed - low self esteem suppressed, or not, from childhood.
.

Surprisingly , my H has admitted to very low self esteem , confidence and feelings of worth.  NEVER would anyone have guessed that he felt this internally.  He presented as the extreme opposite and is known to be a very confident, highly successful man.  I suspected and saw signs from time to time but it was nothing he would have ever agreed with or spoke to me about. He wore a very very tight mask of perfection....despite how he really felt internally. I remember being very shocked when he told the therapist this.

Quote
he trigger - a significant emotional event like loss of a loved one, decline of a career at its peak, or just the inability at midlife to answer the eternal question "what about me?"
.

He was having extreme problems on the job as a new younger alpha male suddenly was hired and he hated this guy with a passion. I have never hears him talk about anyone like that. He could not remember anything or make a decision to save his life.  And most certainly he monstered big time that he had done " every firetrucking thing for 6 women all his life and he was firetrucking done. He wanted to learn to live alone and have his own firetrucking life "

Quote
The fuel - depression depression depression, throughout the crisis ... defended against with self medication such as alcohol, partying, drugs, spending, OP
.

Absolutely. Utterly depressed and denied 100% in a fury . Sleeping all the time.  And then the "damage"... affair, gambling, lying , spending behind my back...all of it.  Quit his job, moved out ...all of it .

Quote
The crash - I think you refer to the final stages of the crisis when the MLCer sees nothing they have done or tried has provided them true inner happiness.
.

My H was actually down..on the ground in the snow with severe chest pain when he approached me to come home. Crying and asking me   "what have I done ?" . That landed him in hospital for several days.   He told me he has never experienced what true happiness and joy must be....his entire life.  Ever. Just who or what was I married to?  I thought he was happy enough ... wow.  He believes he has likely struggled with some measure of depression his entire life and it all exploded.  She ( the OW) was "better than being alone" and he felt better about himself because of things she was saying to him. ( of course). He had no real feelings for her ( that he has ever admitted to. ) . She was a "fantasy" ...and I took that differently than he meant it and lost my mind.

Quote
It can be more than some of them will be able to bear according to various publications, resulting in suicide.
.

Yes. He once told me about a bridge he could drive off of without hurting anyone else.

Quote
Other more pragmatic MLCers will likely just accept that this is where they are, and where they will begin the remainder of their second adulthood.
.

I believed my H would never be able to face what he had done.  Ever. And he would just keep going in his "new life " whether he was happy or not. To be able to face the utter devastation was not something I thought he was capable of. Truth be told?  He had no true idea , no real concept of the absolute and  horrific mess he had made.  Just no emotion IQ to grasp the damage ...took months and months to really see and feel all the damage. He believed I no longer loved him ...so I was happy he left. Statements like that...totally false information he fed himself.









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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#150: February 06, 2022, 01:14:30 PM
Barbie-

Your H and mine have so many similarities it’s crazy. He also said when he moved OW in that it was better than being alone. At least he wouldn’t kill himself. He also has stated he hid behind a fake self confidence while always feeling less than. Also, same with work. He got very high up, but then young guns coming in with new college knowledge and making him feel insecure.

Wise words from Hearts Blessings ( may she RIP)

If you want to end the marriage, or if you want to stand and wait to see if the marriage eventually comes back together, those are your choices. However, he will do what he think he needs to do, when he thinks he needs to do it, and again this has nothing to with you, and everything to do with him.

This is an emotional, mental, and spiritual battle fought on the inside of the mid-life spouse, and until he begins resolving his issues, things will remain confused.

You would need to begin examining yourself–when he put you on this road that was not of your own making, he made this about you, just like his crisis is all about him.

Learn to detach and emotionally distance from his drama–it is the only way you’re going to be able to cope. I also understand that you’re grieving a marriage that was sent to the death in his mind when he turned on you.

Only time will tell whether he will begin trying again with you or not. All you can do is learn to live life for yourself, while keeping the door slightly open for his possible return, if indeed, you choose to do that.
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 01:27:43 PM by TornupNOMORE »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Sometimes your heart needs more time
#151: February 07, 2022, 12:59:35 AM
New Thread time



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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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