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Author Topic: My Story Years into it and I still write my story on this Forum

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My Story Years into it and I still write my story on this Forum
OP: January 14, 2022, 07:15:05 AM
4 1/2 years into it and still the wonderful people in this Forum are the only ones I confide in and there is no support quite like it.

It's been a while that I had to start a new thread and who knows if I am doing it right....but the previous thread: 

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11286.160

So, just a brief recap.....MLC left after 20 years together via text message and refused to talk to me but we still worked in the same office for 4 more years....over these years he wasn't really a Clinger but every 2-3 months he would email and I would always respond briefly. I finally was able to leave the work place in September and am completely out of his sight now. His emails got more frequent when his mother got ill and she did pass away New Years eve. Since we left, his entire family had shunned my D and I and yet last week he emailed that I should come see him as D should get his mothers extensive Christmas Village.....

So, I learned that even 4 1/2 years later we can change and move along on our way. I had always responded to any email he had sent because I wanted him to know I am open to talk to if he ever chose to. Guess what - I have not responded to the last one. I know - no big deal, but to me it is. And it's not that I did not respond due to anger or wanting to be mean ....I did not respond because I had no words. I did not want to explain why my daughter doesn't want the village and I did not want to get into why I did not want to come see him at his mothers house. So I said nothing. Zero. And the first few days I felt unsure about it but then a calm came over me. Then I remembered how cowardly he left and how little contact and care he had for us or how we were surviving and then guess what.....for the first time in 4 1/2 years I felt anger towards him.

In the early stages I always wanted to feel anger as I thought it would make it easier and never could get mad.....a few days ago I was angry...angry that he couldn't be a real man - angry that his family treated us like we never existed and angry at him non chalantly wanting to see me as if nothing ever happened. Like we were bestest of friends...

Thankfully the anger did not last but it felt good for that little while but the feeling remained that I deserved better than that.

Anyhow....like I said...even years in we discover new things and positions change and emotions turn... and I had to share it.

Getting ready to be hit by another Snowmaggedon here.....12-14 inches expected and freezing rain....I just hope we keep the power on.

Hope everyone is staying safe out there and thank you again for all your support over the years.



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#1: January 14, 2022, 08:45:42 AM
Schratz - Attaching and read the end of your last thread.
Quite a difficult decision on how to approach the rare contact, especially when it involves your child(ren).
I have the same issue this morning after receiving a text, so have appreciated everyone's input.

You sound like you're in about the same place as me - quite detached but still missing the man that I married.
And yes, the anger is normal but thankfully fleeing and the best part is realizing that you deserve better...
I suspect that your lack of response to his email will trigger further contact as it is probably difficult for him to be ignored by you since that's not something you typically do... 

Your job sounds like a great thing, and so happy that you were able to get away from the eyes of your husband, yet keep your state pension.

Keep us apprised of how you're doing.  It's always great to hear stories of growth and healing.
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#2: January 14, 2022, 04:19:37 PM
Schratzz

Just attaching, I am around a year ahead of you so it’s interesting to catch up on how you are.

You have a great energy around your writing.

Hope you keep the power on too, sounds cold!
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#3: January 14, 2022, 10:09:03 PM
Good for you not responding.  Sometimes we reach the end of words.  I know I am there and only respond if I have to regarding the kids we share.  That is becoming fewer and fewer as they age.
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#4: January 17, 2022, 12:23:27 AM
Schratz,

1) Yes, you did it right (the new Thread)

2) No, I am not always right by any means ... <snort!>

and

3) Anger is not misplaced as long as we don't stew in it and become bitter. Anger can be a motivator to move forward in our lives and is often a sign when we have come to the conclusion or point that, no, we do NOT deserve to be treated the way that the Mid-Lifer is treating us.

His message was of the "3 months if ever" variety (the Rule of 3 - blood and death, 3 minutes, important stuff about kids/business, 3 days, etc.) and, as I said in the last thread, your D is an adult. She can choose to respond if she wishes and MLCH shoudl be talking directly to her. You are not the go-between....
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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#5: January 20, 2022, 07:30:23 AM
Thank you Sea, Faith and Rose for attaching to my continued story. I appreciate it. Ursa.....I am straining my brain to find an occasion where you were not right....lol.....and I am happy that the anger came and went and I am back in worrying about what's going on in my life.

Sea - you are correct...my non response for the first time in almost 5 years must have disturbed him a wee bit. Yesterday he wrote the longest email about taking care of his mothers estate...blablabla.....about keeping parts of the property to live in (now mind you OW is 4 hours away and not moving) .....and then (also very rare) two sentences inquiring about my health (balablabla..he worries...blablabla.....sure didn't worry for 4 years) and griping about his work.....
And while I am a super empathetic person and losing your mother is truly one of the tougher times in ones life.....I can honestly say I do not feel any type of pity or sorrow for him.

It is almost like reading a stranger's email about what is happening in their life......there was only one wee tug when he talked about selling teh old farm house because we were going to restore it ...but that passed and the rest I took more as BlaBlaBla.....

And I am proud to say I responded in a very casual way as I would to an acquaintance........very non personal - no mention of me or my health or my life (he does not deserve to know about any of that) ...very general......

Ursa would be proud (and I am extremely proud of myself) on how far I have come in my communications with him ......being able to not ask any questions - make no comments about OW or his life ....I keep hearing Ursa and the rest of this wonderful forum in the back of my mind.......what purpose or hidden agenda is in that question......be neutral.....

We just weathered another ice / snow storm and luckily no power was lost so all is good.

Currently focusing on only eating real food.....as living alone one is so prone to just grab some fast food or a bag of popcorn for dinner because it's easy.....3 weeks in and so far I am doing good.....my end goal is to be able to get back out on the bike and the kayak this spring once the hip joints are fixed.

Long Term plan is to minimize my possessions as much as I can so I can move near D in a year or two once she has decided where she will teach permanently. And while it may not seem like much....I am not even considering him in any of this...no more....what if he changes his mind....what if he won't know where you moved to, what if you will never see him again.......me being able to not go there is big as I always held on to hope........oddly now...I am at the stage that I love him and maybe always will, but there is nothing I can do about it so I cannot worry about it. Maybe one does get wiser with age....lmao.....

Hoping everyone is safe and staying that way. Life is short .....let's enjoy every single day....




 
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#6: January 20, 2022, 07:42:34 AM
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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#7: January 20, 2022, 08:18:43 AM
Gosh you sound good, 66  :)
Nothing you can do about it so choosing not to worry about it sounds like a pretty good place to be.  :)

Forgive me bc I can’t recall if you are now divorced/financially separated, so if any of his buy/sell muttering have any effect on your finances?
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 08:20:00 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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66 - So happy to read this post.  You have grown so much and sound like you are in such an awesome place.

Time really is our friend and it has done wonders for you!

Looking forward to hear more about your outdoor adventures once you are able to get back at it.

Love the goals you are setting for yourself!  Keep doing YOU!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW
9.4.18  Moved back-At Parents 
11.1.18  OW back.  H living w/her in D's basement 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced  that he moved to sisters
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hrs away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Early Spring 2021 - helping with chores again then stopped and is getting more distant gradually
9/21 distancing growing worse...hardly see or hear from H
4/22 getting in touch more but sporadically

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#9: January 20, 2022, 06:32:41 PM
Attaching and catching up, S66. 

Sounds like you are in a good place.  Sending good wishes for healing so you can be ready for spring and hobbies you enjoy. 

Currently, I would say your D can pick just about any place to teach and be able to secure employment.  We can't get subs and we're even having problems filling some positions in my district.  I hope she'll get to be choosy! 

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Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
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After all, tomorrow is another day.

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#10: February 08, 2022, 06:04:04 AM
Thank you all for attaching.
Treasure - we have been financially separated from the beginning so his mothers estate has nothing to do with me.
After doing so well, it has been days of darkness and back to the bottom for me.
He kept emailing me - this time with Lets meet and discuss what he should do with the property, then an email about him finding a box of 'our' stuff and how he messed up and it was too late to correct and how he deserves feeling like crap......so, even though I am years and years in - I made a rookie mistake and read into everything and had expectations of him possibly wanting to meet to see if there was anything to build on and my hopes were searing......next email brought it all back down since he is just overwhelmed and so many memories.....

So I made rookie mistake number two and replied when I was overly emotional and now I shall regret it because I am guessing I ruined it all forever. I replied that he has been confusing me a little with wanting to meet and regrets and all that and said that he might not have meant anything by it but that it was very difficult for me and then...here comes where I messed up.........I said if he is still with her and happy then for him to please not contact me anymore.


WHAT WAS I THINKING ??? I know what I was thinking - I thought I had to protect myself from going into a tailspin every time he emailed and I imagined a  reunion of us.....it did kill me and broke me again every damn time.....so, yes I had to protect myself and a tiny part os proud of myself but then I ruined it forever because now he will never come back and I shut down all contact....

This is horrible...I know I will be okay but my world just shattered all over again and this time it is my fault





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Your words: I said if he is still with her and happy then for him to please not contact me anymore.


This is NOT you ruining anything. This is you setting a reasonable boundary. He wanted to have a pity party and invited you- it was about him feeling better, not about you. If anything, it tells you that he is still not taking into account all that happened.

Please don´t beat yourself up.
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#12: February 08, 2022, 06:47:30 AM
Schratz.....



If he is going to come back, he will. If not, he won't. I am sorry to be so blunt but you need to live your life as if he is not coming back. That doesn't mean to forget him (not possible) but realize that, if and when he finally gets his head out of his.... fog..... he will be back if that is what he wants to do. If not, then it wasn't going to work.

This is HIS crisis and, as long as he is with OW<x> he is NOT your H and isn't going to be thinking like he is.

You set a PERFECTLY reasonable boundary by telling him that, as long as he is doing the mattress mambo with someone else, YOU are not interested and do not need the contact.

Tell me something - WHAT is in it for you to keep in contact with someone who is not interested in you other than to make sure that you are still on the shelf where he left you? What is in it for you to be someone's back-up plan if their current life fails? How does that serve you? How does sticking a Barbecue Fork in your nose repeatedly (or, in this case, allowing someone else - xH - to stick a barbecue fork in your nose) benefit you? 

Yes, it hurts when we finally close that door from our side but be honest, he has closed it long ago and uses the mail slot to keep you in place. Is that the kind of relationship you want to have? Does being treated that way bring you joy? Probably not....

I personally am giving you the

for setting a boundary with him - he doesn't get to waltz in and out of your life as if he doesn't have a care in the world as long as he is with OW<x>.  Basta! That is a HEALTHY boundary that will put you on the road to healing and a healthy life.....
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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#13: February 08, 2022, 07:21:39 AM
Contact with them even years later can trigger that "trauma response" in us again. The feeling of dread and deep sadness and "fear". It is very hard to shut this off completely.

In our normal worlds we can express things to people that are our own truths. In intimate relationships, like those we had with our spouses, we could say what bothered us...there would be dialogue and attempts to make it right.

Not so here. It is totally one sided. They make these contacts, out of the blue and we don't know what to make of them.

Quote
WHAT WAS I THINKING ??? I know what I was thinking - I thought I had to protect myself from going into a tailspin every time he emailed and I imagined a  reunion of us.....it did kill me and broke me again every damn time.....so, yes I had to protect myself and a tiny part os proud of myself but then I ruined it forever because now he will never come back and I shut down all contact....

You responded with what is a reasonable request. That is your right and you know that you feel more at peace without his contact. You are listening to what YOU need. I think that is a very healthy thing to do.

Just like we did not "do" anything for them to leave, your comment has not ruined things forever..because there is presently not a kind or loving relationship, it doesn't exist, yet in our hearts, well that is another story. And not as easily dismissed, those feelings of yearning for his love.

I have learned (and this is a sample of one) that after many many seasons of contact then disappearing that eventually I will hear from him again. That is his pattern and actually if this is the time when I never hear from him again, that's ok too.

The difference between vague "contact" and an actual their wanting to enter back into our lives is not going to be from a text message or random contact with us. It will be when they are able to face us and start a real discussion.

I think these random contacts, like the Christmas village one, they do not erase us from their memory and there are times when things pop into their minds and they shoot off a message, having absolutely no idea what it does to us.

You will gain your equilibrium again. What you said to him is exactly what I feel as well...if he is still interested in other women, then I have no use for him in my life.

((((((HUGS))))))
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#14: February 08, 2022, 11:46:43 AM
You've had some wonderful words here already Schratz. Please don't think you messed up. What did you do other than set a clear boundary - go you!
If he's really serious and is out of the thick stuff, he will find his way back to you however, wherever. If he isn't then you are no worse off.
He's having a MLC. If he's anything like my H, he'll likely forget anything you or he said until he's properly thinking something like straight again.
Your words right now are for you. Sounds like you chose good ones to me. Bravo!

(((((Hugs)))))
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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#15: February 08, 2022, 01:39:16 PM
Thank you tree, Ursa, music and XyZ.......and Ursa ...even when the last thing I felt like doing today was laugh.....your dead horse got me giggling and it's funny because it is true.
After a good cry I asked myself what I really lost - what was different today than it was yesterday and the only thing different is that I do not wait with baited breath for an email to read into it that he has regrets, that he is not happy with her and that blue unicorns will fly through space.

And yes, it was still all about him....
I mistook what was more anchor checking since he couldn't see me at work so he had to email me more and him just using me as a sounding board as him having changed and showing interest...that was my fault. I had to do it for my own sanity.

Setting boundaries is what we learn in Al Anon and I was okay setting them with my mother because you always know your mother will love you no matter what...this boundary I just felt so final. It's like I killed any possibility of reconciliation by refusing to be his 'friend' and patiently wait ...then again....what if I'd do that for 20 more years ......no, it was the right thing to do - it just hurts.

Thank you for picking me back up - I know I will be okay - just feeling a wee battered and bruised for the day. Better days ahead no doubt.




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#16: February 08, 2022, 04:47:55 PM

 It's like I killed any possibility of reconciliation by refusing to be his 'friend' and patiently wait ...then again....what if I'd do that for 20 more years ......no, it was the right thing to do - it just hurts.


We think our words mean everything. They think their words mean nothing. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.  I cannot tell you how many times I have blabbered on to my H about never wanting to talk to him again. I am the opposite of a stander poster child, if ever there were such a thing.   You seem to think you have forever closed the door on your R with him. But you haven't.  I can almost promise you that he will come back sniffing around sooner rather than later. These clingers always do.

As you said, better days ahead. No need to keep beating yourself up about your being human, and a damn strong and amazing one at that.
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S15
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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#17: February 08, 2022, 05:04:58 PM
Attaching.
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"Trying to taste green with my elbow ;-)"

Im always reminded of that 80's movie.. War Games.. The best way to win is not to play the game.

Affair found out April 2021
BD June 23rd 2021
Moved out July 8th 2021(Same day our granddaughter was born)
Back with LO Dec 2021
Moved in with AP May 2022.

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#18: February 08, 2022, 11:26:05 PM
Quote
We think our words mean everything. They think their words mean nothing. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
What a useful reminder for all of us, Kit.

Even for those of us with vanishers, there are times in the first months/years when we either hunt for the ‘right’ words or dance on mental eggshells trying to avoid the ‘wrong’ ones. Often while feeling desperate for some kind of communication that feels more ‘normal’. I have never had a time, before or since, when I have agonised over something as simple as a text message  ::)
Whatever it was I was trying to achieve then, it was futile. And it was exhausting.
The truth was, as far as I can know it, based on my spouses’ behaviour, that my words were irrelevant.
He either did not hear them, did not want to hear them or saw them as unimportant from what I can see.
That was a pretty strange experience too bc even in normal transactions as humans our words and the way we say them matter to some degree, don’t they? In the grocery store or at work or at the bus stop....and yet at that time in my life, with someone for whom my words used to matter a great deal and vice versa, apparently not. A very strange experience and far from normal. And beyond my control or influence seemingly.

I also think that we can feel very invested in our words and fail to recognise that events and time change the context. That our thoughts and feelings evolve. So just bc we proclaimed support or forgiveness at one point, or said no to something at another, it is ok - and reasonable - that we might change our mind later. Our LBS words do not always have to be set in stone. They can be conditional and contextual.

And his? Well, I don’t know. My xh seemed to feel that his words (very few of them though there were lol) were very important. Until he changed his mind or denied ever saying them or claimed to have had conversations with me he had never had or was caught out in a lie by events.  ::) My experience at the time was his words were like water through my fingers. They meant nothing until it turned out some did. And it was exhausting trying to figure out which was which. Now, I have no way of knowing with a vanisher what he thinks were important words and which were not, either his or mine. Anecdotally though, from stories here, I think our LBS words simply matter much much less than we think they should or than they do.....and they certainly don’t seem to prevent MLCers who want contact to make contact. Or indeed inspire those who don’t to change their path lol.

So I hope 66 that you can realise yourself from that all or nothing feeling about how you responded.
The words do not change much of the reality of what is happening imho. Of what he is offering with his communication and of what you decide is useful and acceptable to you.  Nothing new has been lost that was not already lost. Jmo. If that changes, you can use different words if you want to  :)

And I hope this thread might help a newbie consider releasing themselves from the agony of word hunting!
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 11:36:26 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#19: February 09, 2022, 01:39:16 AM
Schratz.
You are doing great.
Setting that boundary is actually good.
There is no way in Hades that a MLCer should expect you to be their friend if they continue with the affair partner.

It's all about their guilt and blame on you.
DO NOT allow it to play in your head.
YOU did not ask for or want this!!!

(HUGS)
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Im always reminded of that 80's movie.. War Games.. The best way to win is not to play the game.

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Back with LO Dec 2021
Moved in with AP May 2022.

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#20: February 09, 2022, 04:32:56 AM
I think your boundary setting was great and now just stick to it!! I think we can say a lot of things and not stick to it and they use that as their personal ego boost. They take what we say with a grain of salt perhaps. Just like you look at their words and actions they look at ours, but in a selfish way. For their personal justification for their own actions or ego. Whatever they do with what we say or do is fleeting and I agree that they JUST DONT CARE because they are not focused on anything about you. It is all about THEM. So no damage done. We are rational and they are not. Nothing sticks with them.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#21: February 09, 2022, 06:23:44 AM
Treasur wrote:

Quote
So just bc we proclaimed support or forgiveness at one point, or said no to something at another, it is ok - and reasonable - that we might change our mind later. Our LBS words do not always have to be set in stone.

This reminded me of something that helped greatly that my therapist told me. I can change my mind from one day to another. If at some point you want to contact him, you can, or not.

This allowed me to feel much more settled and that I had some control in this as well.

We often forget that their crisis means that they do not interact with us normally at all.

I hope you are having a better day.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#22: February 10, 2022, 07:07:26 AM
Thank you Kit, Tore, Pac and XYZ...
After I sent the please do not contact as long as you are with her email, he replied and said that he did not mean to intentionally confuse me (really ???? 4 1/2 years in and suddenly you asked to meet twice and it was not intentionally) and did not mean to cause me distress.
I did not reply and kept repeating what all of you said that I lost nothing that I hadn't already lost except my delusions. I guess I thought or hoped or imagined that after almost 5 yrs and him suddenly wanting to meet we were at a turnabout.....

No longer crying and in much better spirits as I now can actually open my email without trepidation of what is in it...however, now I feel  want to hurt him with words like he toyed with me with his words. By nature I am the least vengeful person ever and always believed in turning the other cheek, but right now I so badly want to message him that he is an overgrown fratboy, that OW dropped him after High School when she wanted to build a life and decided he wasn't good enough and 30 years later when she is looking for a toy boy she contacts him. I want to tell him that everyone else was right about him and I was wrong. I want to tell him that I couldn't advance in my career because I was associated with him and that he is nothing but a broken person and will die a lonely death.

Of course I will send none of it but this feeling of purposely wanting to hurt someone is new to me and I am trying to work through it. In reality I am probably more upset with myself for letting myself be fooled and / or for not asking him sooner to please not contact me as long as he is with her.

But, at least I am off the ground again ...it is a beautiful sunny day out today so I might just go up to the lake and sit and watch nature. For some reason watching nature always brings me peace.

Thank you all for your continued support - much love to all
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#23: February 11, 2022, 11:49:58 AM
Another email from MLC apologizing of he upset me and he is going through so much. He is still with OW but has not seen her in 8 months and that it is a mess but he would let me know when he was sure. He does not want us to fall our of communication but if it is too hard for me then he will respect my wishes.

I did not reply.

Do I have to stay in touch and remain available to make him feel safe so that later on he can come back home ?
Do I stay in touch because he is going through a lot and that might help him make his decision ?
Did I state my view and he now knows that he'd have to no longer be with her before contacting me ?


I hate being used but I also hate that he has to deal with all that without any support
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#24: February 11, 2022, 12:15:08 PM
Quote
Do I have to stay in touch and remain available to make him feel safe so that later on he can come back home ?
Do I stay in touch because he is going through a lot and that might help him make his decision ?
Did I state my view and he now knows that he'd have to no longer be with her before contacting me ?

Sometimes we overthink things too much.

Much depends on whether or not the LBSer would still like to  journey together in life...in whatever state that might be.

And it truly is one's own personal decision.

I would not want contact if there was an OW still in the picture..but from what he said  "He is still with OW but has not seen her in 8 months and that it is a mess "...now there is no way of knowing if that is true or not.

MLCers poke their heads out...they have times when they feel the loss and for those of us who would like to reconcile, some contact is necessary.

So you don't have to do anything, or you can respond but you know what? I think each one of us is very able to compose whatever is in our minds and hearts. Indeed the whole "don't pursue" thing seems to be a pretty strong direction but do we really know what the value of that is?

The main thing is to do what feels right for you!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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As they say in dog training, don´t let your puppy do today what you won´t want them doing in six months. You had already set a boundary. He gave you a wishy-washy new circumstance- still with her but has not seen her in 8 months. Aw, please don´t fall for this. He´s the MLC equivalent of sorta pregnant.

I get it, we are  polite folk who feel it´s rude to not reply but in this case you do not owe him a reply. You have been quite clear where you stand. I dunna know, how about trying the mantra, "I have a spine and I am fine." Repeat as necessary.

You cannot feel his feelings for him. If he´s going through something, he will need to process it. You being a soft ear is not going to alter the outcome because he needs to do the work.

Galentine´s Day is coming on 2/13. Reach out to a female friend and make it a special day. You deserve to spend time with people who appreciate you.
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#26: February 12, 2022, 03:33:02 PM
Hello Schratz, I am sorry that he has disturbed your equilibrium when you have been trying so hard to detach- and congratulations on your new job.  Honestly, he sounds like a mess to me, he's still with the OW, but he hasn't seen her in eight months?  I'm not sure there's a clever or helpful response you could give to that one.
 And, it seems to me if you don't respond at this stage, I imagine you will still hear from him again.  You and I are at a similar timeframe and for me right now peace is so important. I only pick and choose which messages I have it in me to respond.  And I'm often torn by the need to be kind, and the need to take care of myself. So, I have no easy answers for you, but I know you will do what is right for you!
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#27: February 13, 2022, 10:31:00 AM
Quote
Another email from MLC apologizing of he upset me and he is going through so much. He is still with OW but has not seen her in 8 months and that it is a mess but he would let me know when he was sure. He does not want us to fall our of communication but if it is too hard for me then he will respect my wishes
wow, I don’t know how I would respond to someone telling me “they will let me know?” To me it sounds like he knows you are waiting and he has the choice. My XH has always said he wants to come back, but cant fix it or can’t find his way. If it was me I think I would have to respond. Once my XH said he was in a bad place but it wasn’t my problem. I responded “ you’re right. You picked a new partner to talk to” 
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 12:28:28 AM by UrsaMajor »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#28: February 14, 2022, 12:31:54 AM
"Still with OW but hasn't seen her in 8 months...."

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Me - 59, xW - 51
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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#29: February 19, 2022, 02:19:23 PM
Attaching 66. I haven’t been on here for quite a while. Great about the new job  :D

I had to google Christmas village. I don’t think they are as common in Australia.

Your doing a great job. Xx NIL

Ps Ursa you make me laugh
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 02:20:45 PM by Notinlimbo »
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#30: February 21, 2022, 01:02:08 PM
Attaching. Not on here much these days, but I'm still following along!
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27. Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA  |  BD #2: 2018 - FA

W moved out - June 2019 | OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019 | Divorce final - September 2019 | Moving on

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

New Here? Read this! http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1149.0

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Thank you all for your kind and wise words....and I know all of it myself but some times (or a lot of times in my case....lol) we forget and need others to say those words to us. He has still regularly emailed the last couple of weeks...let's see if I can recall it......"he has plenty of regrets" ....'he thinks there is hope for us but does not want to hold me on a string' .......'he has a lot of decisions to make'.....along with random brief messages like 'going to the retirement board to see if I can retire' ....'going to watch a basketball game'..................................................... he just seems lonely with the need to have a friendly ear whenever he needs one but I do not want to be that old shoe that is just comfortable .....

At this point I am just upset with myself for wasting so much time again thinking about him - I was fairly detached - okay with hearing from him every 3-4 months - and not paying much attention....now I allowed myself to be back in the never ending cycle of what ifs and focusing more on him than me and it is frustrating......maybe he is my old shoe as well that it is just something one is familiar with no matter how senseless and maddening.

What is even more absurd is that I do not think I like the person he is and I would not put up with any of that BS from any other person but no matter how much I do not like him, do not like his actions, my heart keeps stuck.

Since my mothers passing and my health issues that do not allow for any exercise at this point - it seems my life has spun out of control a bit and I do not knwo how to reign it back in. Not to go into psycho babble but with her gone and him still gone I feel sort of lost...might be a codependant thing we go through if we lose the addicts and suddenly feel empty and not sure which way to turn since they have been our focus all our lives.

I think it is time to go back to my AlAnon meetings on a weekly basis and find something to focus on.

Who would have thought that as much has changed in 5 years as much has stayed the same and feels like quicksand. Exhausting.

I do appreciate all of you and keep up with everyones story as much as I can.

Thank you
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Quote
Not to go into psycho babble but with her gone and him still gone I feel sort of lost...might be a codependant thing we go through if we lose the addicts and suddenly feel empty and not sure which way to turn since they have been our focus all our lives.

Please don’t rush to label this stuff, 66.
You may be right but tbh that lost feeling also sounds quite a normal accompaniment to loss, grief and adjustment. It will shake out in the wash as you go either way so you can trust your judgment over time on whether it is something normal and healthy or something a bit off-centre and not so healthy.

And a reminder too, although you probably don’t need it. You don’t have to DO anything in response to his perhaps rather intangible emails of regrets, maybes and chitchat. He may be having lots of feelings....you may too...but feelings are not concrete proposals or specific requests, are they? If they turn into that, trust that you will know then and depending on what he offers/proposes you can decide what, if anything, you want to do at that time. And when in doubt? Do what is best and healthiest and most life-affirming and happy-making for you bc that way you benefit regardless, don’t you?
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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He has still regularly emailed the last couple of weeks...let's see if I can recall it......"he has plenty of regrets" ....'he thinks there is hope for us but does not want to hold me on a string' .......'he has a lot of decisions to make'.....along with random brief messages like 'going to the retirement board to see if I can retire' ....'going to watch a basketball game'.....................................................


No substance.... just blah blah blah.... Just words, no actions...

he just seems lonely with the need to have a friendly ear whenever he needs one but I do not want to be that old shoe that is just comfortable .....
He has fired you from that job so there is no reason to keep doing it, is there?

I would be VERY tempted to put in a rule on my e-mail to send anything from him to a specific folder so that, when I felt like poking myself in the eye with a Barbecue Fork, I could open it and read what was inside.... For the most part though, it would just sit there....
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 08:08:51 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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S66-

Have you tried mediation. Since you cant exercise?  Sitting in  a yoga position and just clearing your head. I just started that and it brings me to a much better place.

I also agree with others that replying if and when you want is ok. I also would flag the emails to go to a folder to decide when and if you feel you want to read or respond ( if ever) Only you know what you can handle and what puts you in a bad place vs good place. The most important person is you. Put yourself first . Everyones situation is a little different. Only you know what you need.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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And a reminder too, although you probably don’t need it. You don’t have to DO anything in response to his perhaps rather intangible emails of regrets, maybes and chitchat. He may be having lots of feelings....you may too...but feelings are not concrete proposals or specific requests, are they? If they turn into that, trust that you will know then and depending on what he offers/proposes you can decide what, if anything, you want to do at that time. And when in doubt? Do what is best and healthiest and most life-affirming and happy-making for you bc that way you benefit regardless, don’t you?

Good stuff here
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Thank you all for your wisdom....it's hard when you get in your own head and we cannot see anything clearly because it is all so attached with emotions. Healthwise I have made some progress which is a relief for me.....Thyroid levels were way off which may have caused most of my issues except the hip pain so now I am on medication and have actually started going to the gym again to train those muscles even if I cannot run or bike. Seeing an orthopedic specialist next month to hopefully find out what is causing me to move like a 900 year old woman.....in the meantime since our Triathlon races are staring we came to a solution for me to still participate ...rather than doing the full individual race...I will be part of a team....until I can move I will be the Kayak teamster and the Swimmer in our team...which feels like cheating not doing the entire event, but still better than nothing.....I know I am too hard on myself...lol

MLC checked on me a couple of weeks ago - when I did not reply - he emailed again and I just briefly replied that he chose to not be involved in my life and to focus on his instead.

The dreams about MLC do not help either....fascinating though that even in dreams he is turned towards me and loves me but is not ready to fully commit to returning....

Finding peaceful moments again here and there and trying to force myself to just do me.......it's tough......and then the feeling of failure creeps up that after 5 years I am still not able to completely let it go - which has more to do with me then him and that is maddening in itself.  My mother ruined her entire life by not being able to let go of my father when he left and I do not want to repeat that - it was such a waste and so heartbreaking to watch her never regain joy and life but to rather hide in the bottle for years and then once she was sober her health just ruined what was left.

So I know that I have to move on and I am trying my best by focusing on my life and my daughter.....hopefully with spring finally being here, being outdoors and surrounded by nature will help me get back into my groove and find peace for a while.





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MLC checked on me a couple of weeks ago - when I did not reply - he emailed again and I just briefly replied that he chose to not be involved in my life and to focus on his instead.





Simply BRILLIANT response....
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2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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So I know that I have to move on and I am trying my best by focusing on my life and my daughter.....hopefully with spring finally being here, being outdoors and surrounded by nature will help me get back into my groove and find peace for a while.


Certainly good news that your health is improving.  Sending good wishes that it continues in a positive direction. 

Hopefully spring reaches my area sometime this month as well.  I know I'm also more than ready for it to arrive! 

Did your D find a teaching position?
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After all, tomorrow is another day.

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My godness time does fly...

@stillbaffled - yes, my daughter has found a position teaching Middle School Math about 3 hrs from me and she loves it and I am so happy she mad her dreams come true.

Since my last post I joined a gym to use the low impact cardio machines to keep exercising and I truly enjoy being active again even if it is in a different way than I was used to. We finished our first Triathlon of the season with me just doing the Kayak leg of it and while it is still fun, I do miss the feeling of conquering all three legs of the event. Hopepfully I will be able to get back to that.
The US healt system after 8 months had finally approved for me to get an X Ray of the hip and to see a Orthopedic specialist....apparently I have been handicapped since birth and was just lucky enough to not have had any issues until now.
Hip Dysplasia - the joint was never encased deep enough into the bone to work properly....in order to attach itself it grew bone fragments and so you have bone grinding on bone with each movement.
Only solution - bilateral hip replacement......yikes.......still sitting an debating on the issue and haven't made up my mind.....
Workwise I still truly enjoy my new job and it feels amazing to not have to hide or lurk anywhere.
Of course MLC sent another deep Email...exact wording:  So, what's going on.....lol.......I simply did not reply because really there is no reply. It's so dumb and immature and I just could not get myself to reply.
Sticking with is usual 6 week intervals yesterday another email - this time he got inventive and 'hated to bother me' but a far off acquaintance in his 80 was diagnosed with cancer.....he just cannot let go......which makes no sense to me......almost 5 years from BD and yet the same games....it's truly sad and sometimes I wonder what I ever saw in him.....was he really different or was I just blind ?

What if he would stop interacting.....because i have to consider that by not replying......how would I feel.....my life would not change and if I am honest the only thing it would do is hurt my ego a little bit not having these rare reminders that he still thinks of me - but I think I would get over that.

At this point I just get angry when I think of him - angry at wasting his life by not fully committing to anything or anyone. Life is so short and why sit on a fence ? It's just ridiculous. While my dad and brother have very similar non committal personalities - at least they have always enjoyed life to its fullest.

I hope everyone is doing well and will enjoy their long weekend.








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Hey S66!

Congrats on your D's job and your low impact gym workouts!  My co-worker recently got a hip replacement and is doing much better!

I'm glad you are enjoying your new job.  Definitely has to be a relief not to have MLCer lurking around a corner or leaving bags of produce on your desk.

Good on you ignoring MLCer.  Let him stew in his own MLC juices for a while.   ;)
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Survival Instructions for Newbies

The Apology Every LBS Deserves

My Journey

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

S
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thanks Faith...so, exactly 6 weeks...as usual...lol.....after i did not respond....MLC reached out again...this time with news about an old friend passing away....i very briefly responded with thanks for letting me know.......a week later.....another email....about a friend of his suddenly passing.....I responded that I was sorry and that life was short.....we kept emailing for a few days - really brief messages but he always immediately responded and it was just fun back and forth about nothing....he felt like the old himself and seemed different...lighter......I never once brought up OW or anything....it felt good......

I miss him - the old connection, the spark is still there and I know he feels it...and yes, I know it means nothing.....but it has me wanting to be in touch with him again on a regular basis.....and I know it is not good for me as long as he is with OW.  We are coming up on 5 years from BD and it seems like not much has changed...he cannot leave me alone and I am just as hooked and it seems like I can never move on.

Dang....why can I not do what is best for me......he's just a man......ugh...I need to snap out of this slump.......
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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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Schratz I can totally relate to you. When my H used to text me a lot after our separation, it was hard to move on. They are probably just making sure that you are still there waiting for them. That if something doesn't work out, they know they have the LBS as a spare tire. That's how I feel with my H. Now that he has a new OW, I am gone from the picture. Maybe it's better if you don't reply unless it is really something important.
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Me 46
H    48
Married 11 yrs at BD, no kids,
BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final

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Schratz I can totally relate to you. When my H used to text me a lot after our separation, it was hard to move on. They are probably just making sure that you are still there waiting for them. That if something doesn't work out, they know they have the LBS as a spare tire.



Good old "Plan B." But you (and the rest of the LBS's ) are worth more than being a back-up plan....
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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Thanks Ursa and Dragonfly....I had a real adult sit down with myself yesterday as well......it started when I was on the phone with my D just chatting away about her day and such and out of nowhere the tears started flowing and bless her heart my D had no clue what was happening...lol....
Anyhow.....after getting off the phone I sat myself down and said...this is ridiculous....5 years in and still every time he is in touch you question what did he mean by that - could it mean this or that and you go monkey braining like a gorilla on meth. Ridiculous to cry over a man for 5 freaking years....a man that at this point do not even like.....what the heck....

So I said, self.....because apparently I am a slow learner....you gotta stop the crazyness and the only person that can stop it is you. You have to decide deep down in your soul that you are done. Done with the games, done with the pain, done with being the back-up-plan to make him feel good. Just be done schratz.  We shall see how I respond to my pep talk....lol....but I am hoping this time I am ready to quit all this crazy and no longer respond to any fof his emails......

I have my job, I have my daughter, I have my health for the most part and there's too much life left to live (God willing) to just sit around.

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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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Quote
after getting off the phone I sat myself down and said...this is ridiculous....5 years in and still every time he is in touch you question what did he mean by that - could it mean this or that and you go monkey braining like a gorilla on meth. Ridiculous to cry over a man for 5 freaking years....

There is not an off/on button for our emotions. Our brains store memories and those memories have feelings attached.

I was driving to a PT appointment today and a Robert Palmer song from 1978 was playing..."Every Kinda People" and I teared up...it wasn't a special song for me but it was from a time in my life that I could be instantly transformed back into just hearing this song (and perhaps the tearing has to do with the mess this world has evolved into).

Humans are complex beings and we "feel" things and store things away in our sub conscious that can bring up all kinds of thoughts and feelings as I experienced today driving and hearing that song.

Many LBSers continue to have a reaction to their MLCer, even many years later. You read it often when an "old timer" writes something. It is rather normal. How could it not be after the intimate relationships we had with them?

When I read what you wrote, I felt you were judging yourself negatively for having a response to his contact.

Recently, my therapist and I discussed why it was important to me that I got to a place that contact with him doesn't tear me apart the way it once did. She feels that I have learned how to control my sympathetic nervous system, the fight/flight/freeze system so that I do not spike out of the "calm" zone to the extent that I used to .....instead there are smaller spikes that I recover from much quicker than I once did.

And life, whether it be contact with our MLCer, the shooting of 19 children or the war in the Ukraine...there will always be something to cause us to switch that fight/fright/freeze response back on.

Quote
You have to decide deep down in your soul that you are done. Done with the games, done with the pain, done with being the back-up-plan to make him feel good. Just be done schratz. 

I am not sure that we can "decide" something that has had such an impact on us. We can detach, we can avoid contact but inevitably someone will tell us something or a situation will lead to seeing or hearing something about them. And our brains and all those memories will come flooding back and we need not think that we have "failed"...no not at all.

We loved someone deeply. How we come to terms with that is either deny that we still have feelings for them or accept it and figure out what to do with those feelings so they do not destroy us the way they once did.

Perhaps it can be described as "desensitization". Allowing some contact lets me practice how not to be turned upside down. I am not surprised when he contacts me, and I actually smile because it's so very typical of MLCers to reach out in strangest ways.

No need to analyze why because we don't know what is going on in their heads. What we can do is figure out what our own personal reaction is, maybe even shed a tear or two for something that once was, but know deep down in our soul that we are ok.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Ahh S66, you have always been someone here that reminded me a lot of myself. I agree with all that XY said above (thank you XY). Some people find standing hard because it’s something they think they should do but their heart wants out. Some people find letting go hard because their heart won’t let go even when their head tells them they should be walking away now please. I reckon you and me (and XY) are the latter! Nothing right or wrong, good or bad necessarily which each type of reaction to what has happened to us. Just different types of people. Don’t be hard on yourself for having a reaction to contact with your H. I can’t imagine ever NOT having a reaction. I just hope it will get less and less as the years wear on. Keep doing you S66. Xx
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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Thank you XY and Evermore.....
Rereading my last post and thinking...yes I was judging myself.....as weak and not being able to overcome something. There is a lot of self talk that I need to start censoring for sure.
And of course you are also correct that I cannot decide to stop loving this man......I wish I could......I am just so terrified of turning into my mom and after my dad left when she was 35 until her death at 75 she never was happy ever again...content - yes, enjoying things - yes, but she was never happy again and she died with a broken heart.
So, when I still struggle after 5 years, I am afraid it will turn into 40 years of tears and heartache. And so many times was I close ot start reaching for a bottle of wine to just not feel - but that is how my mother started and I cannot go down that road.

I do not know how to unbreak my heart .....

He just emailed saying he will no longer contact since it seems my wish......

So, of course, now I am crying about that - even though I know it is for the better ....I loved that man and it is such a shame to lose him to something that does not make him happy either, but I cannot control him or his choices.

I will be ok, just sad for today. Tomorrow is another day and then D is coming to visit for a couple of days so that will help lift my spirits.



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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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Your whole post touched me Schratz. Having seen your mother go through this and how she dealt with it by turning to alcohol ...makes sense to me why you would be concerned. Having that knowledge and the desire not to go that path will allow you to choose something different...for we do have choices.

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I do not know how to unbreak my heart ....

After BD I "got" the whole country and western lyrics as well as many rock and roll songs that talked about a broken heart.

Almost 2 years ago, I was diagnosed with a heart issue which I verbalized in my own mind " so it's finally happened. My heart really is broken"...a totally emotional response for I have had high cholesterol for years and a family history of heart disease and stroke. I always have been "worried" about the physical effect that this trauma/stress  would have on my health and there are studies showing how trauma/stress is related to developing cancer as well as many other diseases. We know this to be true.

I don't know about being "happy again". It is why I recently went back to see my therapist and she did help me identify things that make me smile, bring me joy, cause me to laugh, that delight me...in recognizing more of these things, I am feeling more joy...it's sort of a matter of perspective.

Still, as others have stated, I do miss him and the life we once shared.

Quote
Rereading my last post and thinking...yes I was judging myself.....as weak and not being able to overcome something. There is a lot of self talk that I need to start censoring for sure.

You know, I have often stated that I try to live by Jesus's words: LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU and that is a big reason for allowing contact with Mr. xyzcf.

But we also have to love ourselves as well. One of the things about HS is that we can share and talk freely about our lives and our struggles. I also do not believe in censoring my thoughts, I have needed to return for some therapy now and then to work through my thoughts, to dissect them and get to the route of the feelings....I really believe that we are better when we face our "fears" and our "monsters" and to find peace with them rather than denying them. If they are not dealt with, at some point they will come back in other situations again and again until we learn that everything we feel is ok...it is how those feelings impact our lives that we can change.

What I wanted, as I stated many times was to become desensitized to contact with him, because I love him still and never wanted to lose some connection with him.

I am not sorry that this was the path I took, right from the start really...each of us needs to decide what is best and as my therapist emphasized, how we feel today does not have to be how we feel tomorrow or whether we wish to see them or not.

You are resilient  and you recognize the good things you do have in your life. I am amazed at you and your courage, and I remember when you first arrived on HS, how  well you have done to grow and heal.

It doesn't feel that way everyday, but the minutes become hours, the hours become days, the days become weeks and maybe one day, you will think about him, your memories and will find yourself smiling..because what we had was real love and that was a gift for the number of years that we had together.

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« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 11:32:17 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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66 - Finally caught up.  You are sounding well.  So many things you posted of your thoughts resonated so deeply with me.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.....now you are giving me things to think about!

As for your hip....I'll tell you this....I had a knee replacement and it is the best thing I did.  Bone pain gone.  I am 3 mos past surgery and getting stronger all the time.   I would never hesitate to have another replacment.  Yes there is pain after surgery but it is different and you know it is only tempory and it is a healing type of pain!   For me it was an easy decision to make....I wanted mobility back.  I wanted to keep living life and not give it up because of pain that kept me from moving!  I wish you well making the decision.  You will do what is best for you!

Keep the updates coming!  So good to hear from you!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW
9.4.18  Moved back-At Parents 
11.1.18  OW back.  H living w/her in D's basement 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced  that he moved to sisters
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hrs away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Early Spring 2021 - helping with chores again then stopped and is getting more distant gradually
9/21 distancing growing worse...hardly see or hear from H
4/22 getting in touch more but sporadically

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Ted radio hour program on heart break:   https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/1103942297/listen-again-heartache
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me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

S
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An anniversary of sorts today....5 years since BD....and I am okay. I did not dread the day, I am meh...just another day and made my list of chores.

Actually for a moment yesterday I felt free. MLC has sent a couple of more emails - no value - just updates on a former coworkers' health.....I did not even consider replying. He knows I love him, he knows I will no longer play his games of giving me hope to just hang on, he knows that OW must be gone for me to engage .....so if he chooses to send meaningless emails - not my problem.

Hopefully I have turned a corner because I agree XY that continuous heartache and sorrow will have an effect on our health.
As Ursa pointed out he has ben gone and I have not lost anything new....I am just choosing to not play his little pick me up games.

Thanks Sam for being so positive about your replacement surgery. I am just terrified for my D....I am the only family she has and if something would happen I would feel so guilty for leaving her behind just so that I could be pain free and mobile again. However, as my doctor says, it will just get worse and the older i get the more risky the surgery.....so, I am 90% sure I will get it done. I did tell the surgeon it would have to wait til fall since I have grass to cut all summer....lol.....

Tried one of my favorite summer activities yesterday - kayaking out onto the lake and swimming .....loved every second of it even if I am sunburned and achy today...lol....totally worth it.

Watched an interesting clip yesterday...imagine if your soul would just be put in your body today. It wouldn't know about your past or traumas and it's only job would be to make the best of your life starting now and with where you are right now. What would it do.....

Today is just another day and he is just a man and life is so short and the sun always rises no matter what.

 

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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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Isn't it amazing that as time goes on...those tid bits we used to hang onto for hope are nothing more than just a meh in our lives.  We have come so far.

I understand the surgery fears....you will decide what is best for you!  You got this no matter what you decide!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW
9.4.18  Moved back-At Parents 
11.1.18  OW back.  H living w/her in D's basement 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.18 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced  that he moved to sisters
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hrs away 
Summer of 2020 Less help with chores
Early Spring 2021 - helping with chores again then stopped and is getting more distant gradually
9/21 distancing growing worse...hardly see or hear from H
4/22 getting in touch more but sporadically

E
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Quote
Tried one of my favorite summer activities yesterday - kayaking out onto the lake and swimming .....loved every second of it even if I am sunburned and achy today...lol....totally worth it.

Watched an interesting clip yesterday...imagine if your soul would just be put in your body today. It wouldn't know about your past or traumas and it's only job would be to make the best of your life starting now and with where you are right now. What would it do.....

Today is just another day and he is just a man and life is so short and the sun always rises no matter what.

The kayaking sounds awesome.

Love the idea of 'life starting now, what would you do...'

Yes, today is just another day. So glad the 'anniversary' didn't faze you. Love your attitude S66, as always.

I've heard so many great stories about replacement surgeries. When I eventually need a knee replacement (which my surgeon tells me I will need one day) I'll be going for it I think. You have too much life to live to NOT be pain free and mobile again!
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

E
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Re this bit form your post above:
Quote
He knows I love him, he knows I will no longer play his games of giving me hope to just hang on, he knows that OW must be gone for me to engage .....so if he chooses to send meaningless emails - not my problem.

I hope you don't mind S66, that I grab this thought and mull over it on my thread. xxx
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

S
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Time is just flying....Triathlon finished and even though I couldn't complete it as an individual but rather as part of a great team....it was such a great event. Our runner had a fender bender on her way in so the morning of the event we were in trouble....thankfully a 20 year old kid from Ohio looked for a team to participate in and we took him in and guess what.......WE WON !!!!!! We came in first in the Team Competition. What a great day and a great event.
If you ever get a chance ...participate in the Scenic Mountain Triathlon........it's the most beautiful setting, it's a tough course but an amazing community puts it on.

On the MLC front...a couple meaningless brief emails that I ignored...then 3 weeks nothing and then an: I am sorry...sorry for everything. Threw me for a loop a bit because he's not one to apologize.....I wasn't going to respond but then I did with a simple: It's ok.
If anyone apologizes to me, I always respond and i did in this case because I do not want to him to think I am closed off. I am closed off participating in meaningless dribble as long as he is with her but if he ever seriously wants to reach out I want him to feel heard.

Had a great weekend with my 2 grandcats visiting while my daughter and her boyfriend went on a short vacation.......city grandcats were so excited to watch squirrels and birds and trash trucks and hear trains - it was cute and I was sad to see them go home.

Still mulling over the surgery but leaning more towards it....next month a final consultation with the surgeon and I have my list of questions...lol.

My poor brother overseas is getting hit with the crazy heatwave and no air conditioning......he said you can either find him in the water or in the Biergarten as these are the only bearable situations right now. I hope relieve comes soon for them in the form of heavy rain.

Meanwhile our July has been nothing but storms and rain, but it is what it is and I still take summer over winter any day.

Hope everyone is enjoying their summer and life in general.....

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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

M
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Sounds like you are busy and doing things so healthy and healing!! I’m on a swimming schedule and it is great for my body and soul!!
Quote
On the MLC front...a couple meaningless brief emails that I ignored...then 3 weeks nothing and then an: I am sorry...sorry for everything. Threw me for a loop a bit because he's not one to apologize.....I wasn't going to respond but then I did with a simple: It's ok
wow, just a random I’m sorry. I bet there is more to come.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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Mad.....I love swimming....water is my happy place.....and it sounds like yours as well.....

Not sure if it was a sincere apology or just a ploy to see if i am still reading the emails and what it would take to get me to respond...lol...

So, I am kind of disappointed that I replied - albeit very brief in 2 words, but I just went with my gut and again.........I do not want to shut him down if he is ever sincere....but still kicking myself a little bit.....lol......... 

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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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Hi Schratz,

I have a question, do you know for sure what you want regarding your husband?

I have always been crystal clear in my heart and have revisited what I want many times, always coming to the same conclusion of what I want if it were possible.

I have never had a word of an apology in 13 years. I know that MLCers do not come back "all of a sudden" but with baby steps....

Quote
Not sure if it was a sincere apology or just a ploy to see if i am still reading the emails and what it would take to get me to respond...lol..

And so I wonder why do you think this is a ploy? What is the point at this stage for him to want to know if you read his emails? I really don't think we can "guess" their reasons for doing things...and we used to look at this, as well as his recent contacts as "movement" on their part but somehow the message now by many HS members is that for some reason the MLCer is always planning something to cause us pain.

Is it possible that he actually is at a state where he wants to express that he is sorry? It is a possibility as well as 100 others.

But what is it that you want going forward? If you don't want him in your life, that's fine. If you want any chance of him being in your life again, it's going to take risking the possibility of being hurt.

Quote
So, I am kind of disappointed that I replied - albeit very brief in 2 words, but I just went with my gut and again.........I do not want to shut him down if he is ever sincere....but still kicking myself a little bit.....lol.........

You need not be disappointed that you answered him. There is no rule in the MLC universe that states we cannot communicate with someone we loved and were a part of our lives for such a long time.

However, and once again it involves "risk",  could you have used this as an opening to inquire into who this person is that sends a message in this manner to you. Answering "it's ok" made me think...well are you saying it's ok that he did all this? Because if someone were to tell me they were sorry, especially after all that has happened, I couldn't brush it off with "it's ok".

I am not wanting to be harsh or critical. I am just an outsider looking in and basing it on whatever limited knowledge I have through seeing other MLCers reach out to their spouses and information I have picked up along the way.

We have always said that ultimately the decision is up to the LBSer....and I really like what my therapist told me, that I can see him one day and not another..or you can answer his texts or not...but do not be "disappointed" either way.

You are a human being and the regular ways that we communicate with other human beings doesn't work with these MLCers....I like following my gut...I have never felt that somehow I did things "wrong" by listening to my inner voice..and like I said, I'm very clear about what I want if it were ever possible.

That might change as well someday, if it does then I will have to switch direction. But knowing, accepting that it may never happen and being ok with that is a huge relief to me and my nervous system..because he doesn't cause me to loose my balance anymore AND we actually spend some very nice time together, just the two of us and with our daughter.
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 01:22:41 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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but somehow the message now by many HS members is that for some reason the MLCer is always planning something to cause us pain
  gosh, I hope not, but as an LBS it can feel that way until you understand the beast of the MLC. Not to take it personal and it’s not about you. Many of my XH actions have been so seemingly diabolical while hidden under a veil of kindness and self pain that it can be confusing.

 I do agree that they just are surviving, but years in I think with not the open wounds you can take actions for what they are perhaps and not with the pain or second guessing. I have always liked your therapist view on you can decide by the day how you feel. I don't think anyone ever has to say NEVER to anything or lock themselves into anything. No one knows until things actually happen how they will react . We can guess or ponder, but the love was deep, the pain was deep and the healing is ongoing .I do know if my XH knocked on me door wanting help I would be there. Anything beyond that I have no idea. I am just trying to move forward with no expectations on him, me or anyone.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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XY - thank you for your wisdom and I think the reason why I always look for an ulterior motive or no longer view these as movements is because I am terrified of getting hurt again. For years I read into every little sliver he sent me and there was nothing there....then since December after his mother passed the tone seemed different and then a couple of months ago we had an email exchange that reminded me so much of the old him and we had a fun exchange and it felt real ....but then reality hits and it threw me in such turmoil that I sent him an email telling him that it hurt too much to talk to him while he is with her.

He has always known that I still love him and I always responded to his emails ... except the ones that really were just notifications of so and so passing. And I responded with the 'It's ok" and then sat on it and then responded with an "I wasn't sure why he was sharing that or what he wanted me to do with that". Anyway...he said he just wanted to come clean and wanted me to know that he is sorry for hurting me and he feels terrible and we exchanged a few emails and he expressed that the relationship with OW is not solid and that he wouldn;t contact me until it was over but needed me to know that he was sorry.

Then the big one came.......now mind you MLC is not a man that uses the Love word frequently or randomly or lightly ...and he would normally refer to it as caring about me......he said he still loves me and what a mess he made and he is sorry with all his heart.

So, yes, I do believe there is some movement but I am afraid. Afraid to hope, afraid to be hurt again, afraid to start monkey braining again.

If it is real movement I must continue to sit back and let things unfold and only respond as he reaches out.....which is so hard because of course i have a million questions. In reality though he has expressed nothing more than that he is sorry and that he loves me, so I have no right to ask any questions as he has not indicated any interest in coming home. For now I write all my questions in my diary to ask at a later time if he ever thinks about rekindling our relationship.

This should be such a high light in my LBS journey so why am I sitting here crying and hurting like at the beginning ?
I know he loves me and I know he never fully let go of me in 5 years and I I know on my side there was an unbreakable bond and love for him.
The sliver of hope that has been developing the last few months is too much for me to handle.....what if I cannot cope with him turning away again ?

I know my D doesn't want me to even give him the time of day - she says it's $h!tety that he is now two timing OW with me and he's neither fully there nor here and I shouldn't be the fall back plan and I understand her completely, and while my heart tells me to risk it, my mind is terrified of falling apart and not being able to recover.

What a mess indeed

Any advice, wisdom, cold hard truth is welcome......



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Why apologize for hurting me and then telling me he loves me while still with her and hurting me more ?????
Can I ask him why he'd do that or just leave it alone ?????
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My advice fwiw is to leave it alone, 66.
Does he mean the words? Probably. Might he withdraw again? Perhaps.
You might want to read KellBell’s posts bc it seems her h is popping his head up too.....

I suspect his words are a bit of an anchor check either with you or with himself......

But tbh my thought when I read your update is that those things don’t matter.
His actions matter; substantive, concrete actions that he chooses by himself.
Right now, he hasn’t actually put anything concrete on the table for you to consider, has he? So you don’t need to do anything until or unless he does. You have kept the door on the latch....you can decide how/if to respond when he actually proposes DOING something different than what he is currently doing. And you can still say no, not like this, not now, not yet, not until......

Until then, it’s just background noise really, isn’t it? You don’t have to DO anything bc there is nothing being asked of you to DO yet....jmo.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 11:32:26 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Thank you Treasure...I desperately needed to hear that. You are absolutely correct. Just words......
I need to reign myself back in......dang monkeys are out of control.......
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And that is SO understandable, my dear chum.
Sometimes we all need to borrow a bit of someone else’s brain, don’t we?
I can’t tell you how delightful it is to have a fully functioning brain back now, so I am equally delighted to be able to loan bits out  :) I could have loaned you a bit of Gracie the cat’s bc she is quite clever....but I fear most of her answers today would involve chasing flies or stolen feta cheese  :)

Just breathe. It will be ok. Nothing substantive has changed. Nothing is coming along that you can’t handle bc you have already survived the very worst of times, haven’t you?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Hi Schratz
Treasure put it perfectly. Nothing's changed really. Actions are louder than words etc.
Understand all the feelings you're having though. Completely understand.
Hang in there. It's been so long so you know the ropes.

((Hugs))
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Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Hey 66. I’m feeling very like you and know your fears and confusion. Did I dream all that contact? That very clear signalling that he is ‘interested’ in me again? That he is sorry for being a F-up? That he’s now realised just how happy he was before (compared to how happy he is now)? If he’s unhappy there, why is he STILL there? I’m also feeling like, if he feels that way, why is nothing happening? Why are we still floating along like we were?! I went for a walk with SIL1 yesterday and I was so charmed up about it so asked her thoughts. She reminded me that people (esp depressed people) get ‘stuck’. That it takes courage and energy to change something that you’ve got yourself into that you don’t know how yo get out of. It’s easier for them to just wallow along, even though they’re not happy. I guess it’s the same maybe as what happened when they were hiding all their unhappiness from us before BD? There was loads going on under the surface unseen by us. I have to remind myself I didn’t know what he was thinking then (because he hid it) so just because I can’t see movement now it doesn’t mean there’s none going on. But it doesn’t mean there is either!! So there you go, perfect example of why I'm just as confused as you! Typing this on my phone (and really should get up now and walk the puppy) so it’s bound to be garbled, sorry! Just wanted to say, I feel ya! Fir what it’s worth, I found RCR writing on T&Gs and reconnection helpful as it reminds that this can happen (or not 😏) over months or years even. Thank you to those that reminded that it’s consistent action that we need to be watching for. Better go walk Fred Bear now.
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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Anyway...he said he just wanted to come clean and wanted me to know that he is sorry for hurting me and he feels terrible .............. but needed me to know that he was sorry.

So it is pretty clear, because it isn't the only time he has expressed that he is sorry, that this is weighing on him. If you can take it for what it is, an apology, that's all because as others have said there are not any actions that things are going to change.....but he has, more than once now expressed that he is sorry.



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Then the big one came.......now mind you MLC is not a man that uses the Love word frequently or randomly or lightly ...and he would normally refer to it as caring about me......he said he still loves me and what a mess he made and he is sorry with all his heart.


I have no doubt that he still loves you as my husband still has love for me. Because it was not because they did not love us that they left...it was so much more than that (although when they have an OW/OM we of course think that they love him/her and no longer love us.)

Love comes in many different "colors"....and one can love more than one person, but in different ways.

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So, yes, I do believe there is some movement but I am afraid. Afraid to hope, afraid to be hurt again, afraid to start monkey braining again.

Of course you are afraid. You have built a good and peaceful life and "clingers" do not leave us alone....unless we deicide that what we want. Then, we have to shut the door, not respond to any emails, and turn completely away. This is an individual decision that only we can make. I just spent 4 days with Mr.xyzcf...I wrote about it on the Old Timer's thread where I admitted...there is a price to pay for the contact we have...but I have searched my heart and it's a price I am willing to pay because of who I am and because it allows us to have family time with our daughter...that is more important to me than the discomfort I might feel...and knowing that there isn't anything I can do anyway to change things. Acceptance of what is.

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This should be such a high light in my LBS journey so why am I sitting here crying and hurting like at the beginning ?
I know he loves me and I know he never fully let go of me in 5 years and I I know on my side there was an unbreakable bond and love for him.
The sliver of hope that has been developing the last few months is too much for me to handle.....what if I cannot cope with him turning away again ?

That is once again the work you do until you are sure of what is worth it for your life. When you are clear on this you can know what it is that is most important to you. And, some contact doesn't mean he is ever going to return...that is perhaps the ultimate problem for us.....because we never wanted this split, because in my case, I would rather spend the years together than the way it has been for the last 13....so I had to know for sure that if I allow his contact, I cannot have any expectations of what contact will mean for "us" because there is no "us".

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I know my D doesn't want me to even give him the time of day - she says it's $h!tety that he is now two timing OW with me and he's neither fully there nor here and I shouldn't be the fall back plan and I understand her completely, and while my heart tells me to risk it, my mind is terrified of falling apart and not being able to recover.

This is not your daughter's journey, it is yours. You don't have to be concerned about the OW..she is not your problem...I do not believe that we are a "fall back plan"...no.....some crises, once resolved and those who seem to make it make is because the MLCer loves and is is willing to work for his spouse and his marriage.

So those spouse who come back are truly wanting to reestablish with the LBSer. As you will read in my summary on the Old Timer's thread, some who get through their crisis do not want to go back to that life. It is a choice on their part as well....never ever consider yourself less than worthy...

Process your feelings, this is a lot to deal with and sends our heads spinning.

If it is too upsetting, do not read or respond to him again until you want to.

(((((HUGS)))))
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 02:48:53 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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I know this wasn't addressed to me, but thank you XY.
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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Thank you Evermore for being as confused as I am - I feel less crazy knowing that others struggle with the same. I do agree that stuck people often do not know how to get unstuck or they are too afraid to get unstuck. I feel that my MLC is afraid to do anything to mess with the current Status Quo as he is dealing with Estate Sales, Properties and all that hard stuff that comes after parents pass away. So, the last thing he would want to do right now is make any changes that might cause drama with OW or with me. I get it......

Treasure - thank you again for having the clear brain and even Gracie might have more rational thoughts than I do at the moment...lol

Music - thank you for your your encouragement - I really appreciate it.

XY....as always so much wisdom and so much food for thought and I thank you for it.  I agree, it is weighing heavy on him all over sudden and I think that shows movement of sorts ...I also agree there is different ways to love people, however, MLC would say I still think and care about you, or i always love you as he has in the past years but for him to just say...I still love you and I am sorry with all my heart does sound a little different to me knowing how he is. Maybe I am fooling myself - I do not know.

Like you while contact has always thrown me into turmoil, I mostly responded to him because a) it is who I am and b) to let him know that I am not closed down. I have had no expectations for years and suddenly those poke up again and they are the devil. I know I must not have any expectations because that is what will hurt me...expectations that are not met. How do you manage to not let those come up ? Thank you for saying we are not Back Up plans....I do not feel like one but I guess form the outside it might seem that way...on the inside...my love for him never left and I think he just had to work through some stuff

I know he is scared right now and in a heap of inner turmoil about selling his parents estate and where will that leave him and he is not one to break up with anyone as he hates conflict. His MO in the past was to just let things drag until the other party had enough and broke up with him. BD was actually the first time he ever initiated a break up ...lucky me....lol

Thank all of you for catching me again after all these years.....without all of you.....not sure where I would be......so, for now...I will leave him be (I did tell him though that I am here if he needs to vent or needs a friendly ear) .....I shall not reach out and let things do what they're going to do.

Thanks again
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To say the last couple of days have been a struggle would be an understatement. I felt as distraught and confused as I was at the beginning of this whole story. My heart and my hope led me down the crazy monkey path where there is no turn around. I felt I had learned nothing in 5 years and I was still as impatient as when I was a Newbie and wanted what I wanted and wanted it now.

All this waiting and not doing anything was the hardest at the beginning and it felt the same. A million questions.......is it real movement, how can I make him miss me, will he forget me......all crazy....5 years and he never once forgot me so I doubt he will now. And then there's that silly silly thing called hope.....do we hope, do we not dare to hope.....

But then last night after a glass of wine (and I am not a drinker) I felt a little calmer.......and realized yet again that there is truly nothing I can do......if I keep contacting him I would just try to force something and not give him the chance to work this out. And he might not want to work any of this out as he hates to make decisions, and there is really no reason to make any changes for him.....he knows he has me, he still has her until she gets tired and he can just sit still and deal with the estate stuff.

I also remembered that not once did he ask me about anything related to me or my D......it is still all about him and two women wanting him.......and him not having to do anything. I also realized that I want effort - I want somebody that wants me, that knows he wants me and that would work towards a solution rather then just riding fences in the Status Quo.

So, as hard as it is, I will sit on my hands if that's what it takes not to reach out....I will focus back on me
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A very good visual that my therapist used when I thought I was slipping backwards was a horizontal spiral (think slinky). As we heal, we are moving forward. If something triggers us to go backwards, because of the work we have done, we never slip back too far and recovery is faster than it was at the beginning.

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and realized yet again that there is truly nothing I can do......if I keep contacting him I would just try to force something and not give him the chance to work this out. And he might not want to work any of this out

It may not be a matter of "want"....for so much of their crisis is in their subconscious minds....but probably the thing that I had to understand is that his working it our doesn't mean that he returns to our marriage. In my case, it seems like his working it out is that he has created a new life for himself, one that he is quite content with.

Acceptance...it is not what I want but as you said there is nothing we can do.

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I also remembered that not once did he ask me about anything related to me or my D......it is still all about him and two women wanting him..

Their crisis is totally self centered and all about them. For years, my husband paid little attention to our daughter, but that has changed quite a bit.....he still doesn't ask about me or my life...it continues to be very superficial.

 
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I also realized that I want effort - I want somebody that wants me, that knows he wants me and that would work towards a solution rather then just riding fences in the Status Quo.

In normal relationships, this is how it should be. MLCer's are not going to work towards a "solution" because it is not a marriage problem...their internal crisis is not about the relationship we had with them.

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I will focus back on me

Exactly where it should be!

Part of that focus is dealing with the feelings and emotions that come up when you have thoughts of him, when you are reminded of him, when he contacts you. Unless you are one that can compartmentalize and dismiss any memories, feelings, desires for what once was, you may continue to have intense feelings about him and the life you had.

You are very aware of how your body responds to his contact. The trick is figuring out how to deal with these responses without it gutting you.
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 07:21:25 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Thank you XY ... you exude such calm and wisdom and I appreciate it so very much.
I wonder if I will ever get there or always be the balled up bundle of hope and expectations and not being able to truly accept.
Therein I think lies the true issue with me....superficially I thought I had accepted the fact that he may never return but deep down I do not think I am there.
If you have any advise on how to work on that...it would be greatly appreciated.

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Thank you XY ... you exude such calm and wisdom

Well I don't know about wisdom  :) but yes I do feel calm compared to years previously. At around 8 years post BD I felt stuck and fortunately found a therapist who worked with trauma and focused on my body's responses and how to switch them to a healthier pattern. I still go back and see her for a few sessions now and then..recently because I did not seem to be able to feel "joy".

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superficially I thought I had accepted the fact that he may never return but deep down I do not think I am there.
If you have any advise on how to work on that..

I have accepted the fact that I will never completely be "over" this and that I did not stop loving him. You know I am convinced of the theory of MLC, and don't take what happened personally.

I have also allowed contact so 1) I have lots of practice in interacting with him and 2) it always gives me insight into who he has become.....and what he likes in life..and how much he has changed.

I guess I finally accepted and respect that the life I want is not the life he wants..even though for many years it was what we both wanted. Even his condo, his taste in furniture and decor is so radically different than what we choose together. The contact also allows me to see his "depression" which also helps me to accept him for who he is now.

I personally do not believe that cutting him out of my life would have been beneficial to me, to my understanding of what happened. I used to think our time together meant that he would "see me" and want "us" again.....but I grew to accept that this is not the case in our story.

I also have allowed this kind of contact so we could be a family at times ...over time, this became what I desired..if I could at least save this, some ability to be comfortable together with our daughter.

I know that if I were in another relationship, I would not be able to have that...and those times are precious for me.

I also have no knowledge of any other woman in his life...not concrete knowledge although she is there...but he has kept her very well hidden.

But as we have always said, each of our situations are different and each of us must cut a path through that jungle of sadness/fear/longing/despair/depression/thoughts of being unworthy/anger/bitterness and all the other feelings and emotions that we experience...in my opinion, they each have to be dealt with head on and it is a lifetime journey...accepting life as it is, acknowledging that there are things we do not have any control over and looking for things that delight us and make us feel fulfilled.

Remember, it's been 13 years..it took years before I could accept this for you know I always believed he would come back, I always wanted that....still do...but I live with knowing that may never happen...I guess the acceptance comes from seeing him really different than he was before MLC hit and that required me to actually see him and spend time with him even when that was difficult for me.
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 09:13:12 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Thank you Evermore for being as confused as I am - I feel less crazy knowing that others struggle with the same. I do agree that stuck people often do not know how to get unstuck or they are too afraid to get unstuck. I feel that my MLC is afraid to do anything to mess with the current Status Quo as he is dealing with Estate Sales, Properties and all that hard stuff that comes after parents pass away. So, the last thing he would want to do right now is make any changes that might cause drama with OW or with me. I get it......

Yes, I really think most of this is that they are far too scared to rock the boat just yet. They did that when they left us and it was so stressful and so horrible (for them as well as us/our families etc). I'm sure thinking about doing that again makes them... well, probably try not to think about it most (all!) of the time! Lalala, if I don't think about it, it will all just go away and I won't have to DO anything or feel so bad/horrible/guilty. I mean really when you think about it, it's amazing that any of them ever try to work things out given what they have to face to do it. :( 

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To say the last couple of days have been a struggle would be an understatement. I felt as distraught and confused as I was at the beginning of this whole story. My heart and my hope led me down the crazy monkey path where there is no turn around. I felt I had learned nothing in 5 years and I was still as impatient as when I was a Newbie and wanted what I wanted and wanted it now.

All this waiting and not doing anything was the hardest at the beginning and it felt the same. A million questions.......is it real movement, how can I make him miss me, will he forget me......all crazy....5 years and he never once forgot me so I doubt he will now. And then there's that silly silly thing called hope.....do we hope, do we not dare to hope.....

But then last night after a glass of wine (and I am not a drinker) I felt a little calmer.......and realized yet again that there is truly nothing I can do......if I keep contacting him I would just try to force something and not give him the chance to work this out. And he might not want to work any of this out as he hates to make decisions, and there is really no reason to make any changes for him.....he knows he has me, he still has her until she gets tired and he can just sit still and deal with the estate stuff.

I also remembered that not once did he ask me about anything related to me or my D......it is still all about him and two women wanting him.......and him not having to do anything. I also realized that I want effort - I want somebody that wants me, that knows he wants me and that would work towards a solution rather then just riding fences in the Status Quo.

So, as hard as it is, I will sit on my hands if that's what it takes not to reach out....I will focus back on me

That bloody hope! I completely agree that it's crazy making.  :o I also felt this way on the weekend. Just all churned up and confused and just, arrgghhhh! Because my head keeps saying, if he's not happy and he wants out, and he's keen on me again, why is he throwing her a BDay party and taking her to visit his dad!? Why is he still there going through the motions? I must be wrong to think there's any hope. Stop it, stop it, nothing has changed!!!

But my poor little heart still has that silly bloody hope.

Also like you, at some stage in the last few days something shifted and I could calm myself. It was such a relief! And I reminded myself, that as XY counciled, we have learnt something and we do bounce back much more quickly. I don't stay like that for days and days and weeks and weeks any more. Very grateful for that. And I don't even really have to try to make myself feel better. It just happens automatically now (thank heavens), like a muscle memory.

I'm not sure if this will help you S66 but it's what I keep reading over and over at the moment. I don't slavishly follow RCRs writings (because there's so many variables as we all know). But it really helps me to be reminded that reconnection a) really can take a year or longer (and still happen), and b) reconnection doesn't necessarily lead to reconciliation. 

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_touch-and-goes-and-reconnection.html

I hope you have a good week and are successful at getting the focus back on yourself! Because you're right, you absolutely deserve effort. Until then we need to stick with the program. That's also my plan and I'll be thinking of you and cheering you on as I do! 

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 08:24:46 PM by Evermore »
M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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4 1/2 years into it and still the wonderful people in this Forum are the only ones I confide in and there is no support quite like it.
About 7 for me and ditto  :)

Sharing on your thread rather than mine in case it helps you not beat yourself up and shush your own monkeys...and bc it might help me too to get it out on the virtual page with folks who get it and care about me  :)..

Had an odd experience last night. (And bear in mind, i’m not standing, have had NC with xh for years, don’t look for info about his new life etc....I pretty much behave as if he died...much less demanding than your experience) An old friend called me, the female half of a pair who were our closest couple friends some years ago when we all lived in the same village. It was a lovely surprise to hear from her and we chit-chatted catch up on their doings and mine. Then, as is normal and natural, a few updates on shared acquaintances and a few ‘do you remember when’ moments. And that one of those mutual acquaintances had bumped into my xh in a nearby town and been surprised that he said hello to them but had shared with my old friend that he didn’t seem or look like himself at all. (She said no more than that, I asked nothing about it and the convo moved on.)

And for background, our life in this village (we left in 2012) was an incredibly happy time....we were really at the heart of a small community and we both loved it. (Well, y’know, LBS goggles now lol but I THINK we BOTH were very happy there....and my xh erased all of those friendships too, lots of folks who were just as blindsided as me and kept reaching out to him for well over a year if I remember right bc they were so concerned about his mental health and believed he was having a depressive breakdown of some kind...And those old friends are left with a big confused question mark and a lot of happy memories too, even all these years later.)

There was nothing bad or wrong in the conversation. I wasn’t distressed at the time, not a jot.
But then.....
Could not sleep last night. Felt queasy and on edge and physically kind of, idk, weak? To the extent that I cancelled something I was supposed to be doing today bc it needs physical strength I don’t have today. And today I need to go slow and ramp up my self care and rebalance myself. The good news is that I know I can and that later today I will feel ok and ‘normal’ again.
But it was a weird thing to experience all these years later.

The reason I am sharing this, 66, is bc it’s a reminder to me of how incredibly real the traumatic effect of what happened to us was. And that our bodies and part of our brains know what we don’t know or like to accept perhaps. That, even years later, even with small apparent triggers let alone contact with the MLCer, how it feels can catch us unawares and feel rather unpleasant.

So, unless you want to tell me that i am (insert whatever criticism you are using on yourself) too, and you probably don’t lol, please turn the same kind and generous and calm eye on yourself that you would be using with me today. I will be medicating with sunshine, a few head boops with Gracie, some easy to digest food and doing something small and mentally undemanding with my hands. Oh, and a lavender bath and an early night!  Other to do stuff will get shifted into tomorrow when I feel more grounded again. Whatever your equivalent of that is, please do that. I am metaphorically lending you a little grey cat chasing flies as I write.....xxx
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 12:28:11 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Evermore - thank you again. For sharing your feelings of hope and the questions and the crazy of it all. Thank you for the link to the reconnection - I shall read it later this evening. You are right - nothing has changed really and I am glad both of us were able to calm ourselves after a few days....it is so exhausting and not the least be productive and I am glad to have you in my corner with the same hopes and a similar timeline. It truly truly helps to know that others know what you're going through.

Treasure.....thank you for sharing and I do believe that the trauma is somehow embedded in our bodies and brains which react even at the slightest and most insignificant trigger. It truly is a physical reaction...the rapid heart beat, the shallow breathing, the anxiety.........and yes, I know I will be okay because I have been there and survived. I have been hugging my old cat a little tighter at night, worked in the yard as best I could and chased away any thoughts of him.

It feels like fighting an addiction at times and the first couple of days after exposure are the worst and then the calm returns with each day that I fight the urge to reach out.

XY - you are an amazing woman and see things so clearly .... your courage and faith is truly an inspiration

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So, the last thing he would want to do right now is make any changes that might cause drama with OW or with me. I get it......

I am so sorry that you are struggling and just know that we are here to support you and your trauma that you endured over the past few years. I am not a fan of your H and could care less about him at the moment. This was a man that hurt and abused you. So, I am not a fan of him. I am a fan of yours.  Just like you have stated, he needs to make changes and you can't control or fix him to make those changes. Because regardless of the reason, until he makes those changes, he is not worth the time of effort.

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..if I keep contacting him I would just try to force something and not give him the chance to work this out. And he might not want to work any of this out as he hates to make decisions, and there is really no reason to make any changes for him.....he knows he has me, he still has her until she gets tired and he can just sit still and deal with the estate stuff.

Stop contacting him, I don't care about his chances or that he hates decisions. If I posted that I won the lottery. Then wrote that after learning that I won millions, I burned the ticket because I didn't know how to handle the money. Would you think I was wise? The moment your H walked out the door, he burnt his winning ticket and left his fortune. Don't reward stupidity or allow a cheater to think he has two women vying for his attention.

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Why apologize for hurting me and then telling me he loves me while still with her and hurting me more ?????
Can I ask him why he'd do that or just leave it alone ?????

Leave it alone. Right now, he is with someone else and no discussions. Why would you listen to or validate any words of a cheater? They are just words to help him feel better, not you.  In my opinion, he is acting like a little boy and until he acts like a man, he is better off with OW and out of your life. Just as you are putting in the last stich to heal your heart, you are content to rip them all out again- for him. Why?

I am not against reconnection, reconciliation or any other arrangement. I am just saying that the man you know in the now isn't worth two cents. That's not killing hope, that detachment for your sanity and personal well-being.

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I need to go slow and ramp up my self care and rebalance myself. The good news is that I know I can and that later today I will feel ok and ‘normal’ again.

Yes, and you need to focus on you and creating your own bliss. Be intentional to this as well. This is your moment and right now you need to answer to you.

Be really good to yourself this weekend and post how you found a few moments of bliss,

((((Ready))))



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#78: August 02, 2022, 10:49:48 AM
Thank you so much Ready...you are right and I am actually back out of 'waiting and hoping" mode and back into what can I do for me and find joy today mode. And some times when you get confused...Life sort of gives you a little nudge and reminds you what's important.......I thought I ate something wrong last Friday and chalked it up to indigestion - well the next day the pain was unbearable and I ended up having an emergency surgery to have an infected appendix removed......first of...what kind of BS is that...I thought that was something kids or young adults have not 50+ people...lol......secondly....it brought me back into reality that the only thing that truly matters is my health and my daughter and while still hurting a wee bit from surgery I am in a wonderful place mentally again and I will fight to stay there.
The entire 48 hrs of agony and misery.....you know who never entered my mind....MLC....never once did I think about him because right now he does not matter. And while they 'found' another health issue that needs to be addressed to eliminate the C word as they call it, I have decided to get the hip surgery done so I can jump fully back into my active lifestyle...who knows how little or how long we have left and I want to enjoy it as best I can and as active as I can.


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#79: August 02, 2022, 01:28:45 PM
Wow, S66... Glad you caught the appendicitis and were able to get it removed without complications! I imagine that really does focus your thoughts...
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#80: August 02, 2022, 05:40:30 PM
S66, that was some surprise!  Sending healing wishes your way. 
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#81: August 02, 2022, 06:44:45 PM
Get well soon!

Amazing how our lives can change in a flash.

I was reluctant to have my knee replaced and dealt with it for about 9 years but finally wanted to be able to be more active. It was a good decision.

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never once did I think about him because right now he does not matter.

INDEED! We are not participating in their lives nor are they inviting us to so continue to find the things that you love doing. As you say, none of us know how long we have on this earth.

Let us know how you are doing!
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#82: August 02, 2022, 07:17:34 PM
I ended up having an emergency surgery to have an infected appendix removed......first of...what kind of BS is that...I thought that was something kids or young adults have not 50+ people...lol..

Wow, glad they got it out before it burst. Agree... what the... appendix?! Why now?!!

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...secondly....it brought me back into reality that the only thing that truly matters is my health and my daughter and while still hurting a wee bit from surgery I am in a wonderful place mentally again and I will fight to stay there.

So glad to read this. Go you!

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And while they 'found' another health issue that needs to be addressed to eliminate the C word as they call it, I have decided to get the hip surgery done so I can jump fully back into my active lifestyle...who knows how little or how long we have left and I want to enjoy it as best I can and as active as I can.

Hoping the 'other health issue' is all cleared away and again, go you for making that big decision.

Sending 'speedy healing' vibes your way.
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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#83: August 02, 2022, 11:34:50 PM
I hope you have a speedy recovery, 66.
And, just in case you haven’t mentally logged it, imho the fact that even with this serious health issue hitting you out of the blue, you gave no thought or expectation to your MLCer is a very practical sign of the progress you have made in your own LBS detachment and recovery......
You’ve come a long way, baby!  :)
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#84: August 05, 2022, 07:36:16 AM
Thank you all for the well wishes......I am doing good.....had my follow up visit with the surgeon and everything seems to be on its way.....what a crazy week indeed...
Isn't it odd that I thought there was movement with MLC journey but in reality there is more movement in my own journey.....of course it could be the anesthesia speaking or the flashing of my life in front of my eyes....whatever it is I take it and hope it keeps me pushing forward.
As I am sitting here this morning another light flash popped up in my mind.......and you know those moments when you have heard things before but you didn't "get it" because you were not ready to fully understand or embrace it..........
This morning I finally realized that MLC decides every single day that he does not want me in his life. This was not an error in his way of thinking for one brief moment while crazy over OW 5  years ago.....no, he decides every single day.....and to realize that for me is very powerful. Oddly enough not very painful at this point...but very powerful in the fact that it is his continuous decision and as Ursa would say I have been beating a dead horse for years thinking he is just confused and needs guidance home..

No - he knows what he is doing and it is his decision every single day and that is okay. There's no OW standing with an axe over his head keeping him away......he is where he is because he chooses it every single day.

As a little kid when you don't like something your parents decide and you're mad as heck but surrender because it is what it is.......I have been fighting the unfightable for 5 years...thrashing around refusing to let it win, refusing to give in, refusing to surrender to it is what it is....every little word of hope I raised back up and fought harder........I could say what a waste of time and energy but I have learned alot about life and myself in these years so it wasn't all a waste.......but I think I am slowly arriving at Surrender and what a glorious peaceful place that is.

Yes, I still love him, and no I do not like his choice, but he knows how I feel, he knows where I am at and that is pretty much all  I can do on that front.
On my front on the other hand I can ensure that I live my life the way I want to, experience the things I still want to experience and to find the joy.

Will this mind set last - who knows....I have been a roller coaster of ups and downs - but for now I take this serenity and clarity of there's nothing to fight.

Again, thank you all for your healing thoughts - back to work it is and yes, I still love my job and it was truly such a blessed turn of event to get that job after so many years.

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#85: August 05, 2022, 02:17:50 PM
Wow Schratz thank you for sharing. I was and still am like in a tug of war between deciding whether that my H is just confused because he is in crisis or he was or is aware that what he’s doing hurt me and he chose consciously to continue doing that. I believe where you are now is truly what detachment means and it takes a while until one truly understands that there is nothing you can do to bring back your MLCer.

It’s very inspiring to hear that in the end the LBS are going to be ok. I look forward to be where you are now one day.
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EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final

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#86: August 18, 2022, 07:56:16 AM
Dragonfly - you will be ok.......

Well, this year has not been very kind......just heard that my father had a massive stroke and is not expected to live. This opens a whole range of emotions as my father was MLC and disappeared when I was 14 and never showed any interest in a relationship with us children or my daughter, his only grand child. The reason was because he insisted on any visits with him had to include OW and I was not ready for that so he chose OW over us. I had tried a few times over the years but he was busy living the Jet Set life with his young wife.  A year and a half ago after mother passed my brother insisted we visit him to let him know. He was visibly taken aback at mother's death and we losely stayed in email contact since. I am sad that he had a stroke and might pass, but then also mad at how he deserted us and left us with an alcoholic mother and also hurt at how he treated my mother but then it is still your dad regardless.....it's all very complicated and I can only take it one day at a time to sit through all these feelings.

My brother will have a harder time with it because they always stayed in touch somehow as my brother liked the new wife and she was close to his age.

On my side I met with the doctor and the apparent mass on one of my organs seems most likely benign and only annual scans to keep it in check will be necessary which is good news and leaves me free to have hip surgery scheduled.

A lot happening this year but also really embracing living life each and every day and enjoying the small moments and knowing the only thing that matters are the people you love. My D's boyfriend said he just put a down payment on a ring....so I am happy for her....while he is not my cup of tea he is a good guy and is good to her and she loves him....what more can we ask for. Appreciate and treasure what we have and not worry about what we don't have ....



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#87: August 18, 2022, 11:15:55 AM
S66 I’m sorry to hear about your father. You are right he is still your father and it is normal that we are flooded with different emotions when confronted with such situation. I think we have similar history. My father also abandoned us when I was 10 and he never came back. We didn’t have any contact with him for 16 years while he was with Ow. My mother at first abandoned us to go after my father and tried to convince him to come back. It was such a traumatic experience for me. With MLC it felt like an atomic bomb. My father was an addict gambler. Until today he never got out of this vice. He fooled us so many times that we finally cut all ties with him. He is a toxic person but despite that I would still feel sad if somehting happens to him.

With ur father’s story it is then possible that the MLCer will have a successful long lasting relationship with the OW. Somehow I feel sad about it because honestly I want my H to experience all the things he made me go through. But anyway,  it’s non of my business anymore whatever is going to happen to his life. Like what xycz mentioned some have a better life even. Not all MLcEr will end up in a worse situation.

I’m glad to hear this growth in your organs was just benign. You don’t need that stress at all. You deserve to enjoy your life now and just have a good life. I hope you keep posting here.
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H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
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#88: August 18, 2022, 03:19:59 PM
Hello,

Quote
Well, this year has not been very kind......just heard that my father had a massive stroke and is not expected to live. This opens a whole range of emotions as my father was MLC and disappeared when I was 14 and never showed any interest in a relationship with us children or my daughter, his only grand child. The reason was because he insisted on any visits with him had to include OW and I was not ready for that so he chose OW over us.

I am sad for you. I had the incredible fortune of growing up in a stable and loving environment with two adult parents who in three days will celebrate 62 years of marriage. I can't feel for your father who abandoned his children and left them with an alcoholic mother. I know you are sifting through many emotions and that is perfectly normal and will help you heal as long as you know and completely accept that none of his poor choices and actions have anything to do with you at all. He pursuit of his own personal pleasure over his family is a huge character flaw. Maybe I am old school, senile, or live in a overly optimistic world, but when I had children, I made a commitment to them first, me second. Was I a perfect parent? No, I made many mistakes, but my intent was always to support my children. Even if Jennifer Aniston offered me the job of being her boy toy and living the rest of my days in luxury and style would have I ever left my children. When they entered my world, they became my world.  Even though they are in their twenties, they are still my world.

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With ur father’s story it is then possible that the MLCer will have a successful long lasting relationship with the OW. Somehow I feel sad about it because honestly I want my H to experience all the things he made me go through.

Long lasting doesn't mean successful. Benedict Arnold had money, but still died a traitor. I don't know all the circumstances of Schratz66 mother's and father's marriage and dealing with an alcoholic spouse. But, he did a real crappy thing to his kids and that doesn't make one a success in life. He may have lived a jet set life with OW, that doesn't make it success, it just means he was an entitled cockroach.

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A lot happening this year but also really embracing living life each and every day and enjoying the small moments and knowing the only thing that matters are the people you love.

This is the key. Live for you and those that love you. I just celebrated my Mother-in-laws 75th birthday. She doesn't speak English, and I don't speak Vietnamese, but the love is there and that is all that matters.

I hope you get healthy and congratulations on the engagement. There are blessings everywhere when we go to look for them.

Have a great day,

((((Ready))))
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#89: August 22, 2022, 06:21:32 AM
Thank you Dragon and Ready.....

Ready...I agree - my child would always be my first and always commitment regardless of a spouse coming in and out of my life......and I envy that you had a stable childhood.....I often wonder if the fact that I already experienced abandonment through MLC as a teenager made this one with my own MLC that much more traumatic....the two men in my life both decided that I was abandoneable ... they do say that one subconsciously chooses a partner similar to your opposite sex parent...so I keep repeating my therapist's words...just because they could not love you does not mean you are not lovable.



Dragon......don't get down about my father staying with OW for 40 years......I think there were several factors why.....she stayed because he was a wealthy, respected man in the community and she was a nobody out to be taken care of...he stayed because she looked good on his arm and never had her own opinion....whatever he said was her command...and then the older he got the opportunities to stray would not have been as frequent especially after a brain injury he sustained in his early 50s...........it always felt more like a groupie - celebrity partnershio than a real one where both people have personalities and opinions and are valued.


Anyway- my father passed away on his 82nd birthday. My brother just told me that the OW (or father's wife - I never considered her a stepmom) mentioned that our father excluded us from any inheritance claims by documenting that his children deserted him.......talk about a slap in the face........we, the children, never deserted him........there are court documents where he declined visitation, he was the one to not wish to be in contact .....I am truly speechless that even in his death he is such a selfish person.
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#90: August 22, 2022, 06:41:05 AM
I am very sorry for the complexity of your loss, 66.
And for that very MLCish slap in the face about his will. Funny, we often say here that MLC trumps divorce....it seems that in some cases it even trumps death.
But still, it’s possibly rather full of complicated emotions for you right now so we are all virtually holding you close.

I recall my mother saying to me (Her father stayed in the home but was a petty, bullying and emotionally abusive little man) that she did not shed a tear when he died, that actually she found a lot of the traditions that come with a funeral very uncomfortable bc she simply did not feel the way others thought she did or should.
My father - who was an optimistic, fair minded and generous soul - once said that not punching him in the face was one of his few regrets in life  :)
But she also told me that a few years later, she did cry. Not for the father or person he was, but bc there would never be even a sliver of possibility now that he could one day be the kind of father that she had yearned for and spent many years trying to please in the hope that he would.
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#91: August 22, 2022, 06:55:06 AM
Quote
My brother just told me that the OW (or father's wife - I never considered her a stepmom) mentioned that our father excluded us from any inheritance claims by documenting that his children deserted him.......talk about a slap in the face........we, the children, never deserted him........there are court documents where he declined visitation, he was the one to not wish to be in contact .....I am truly speechless that even in his death he is such a selfish person.

Oh Schatz....this makes my heart contract...because even though I know there are parents who do not seem to have any feelings or connection to their children, as a parent, I don't understand how someone turns their back on their children.

It also shows how much they believe their own version of things. They are convinced that the way they see it is the way it is. There is no logic at all to their actions.

You were 14 when he left. I certainly understand how you would compare that abandonment to the one of your husband.

There will of course be some kind of feeling in you. You "father" was a part of your life for 14 years.

Peace be with you. Neither men have been very kind to you.

I watched a TV segment last night on Pat Benatar and her husband who have been married for 40 years. In the interview the interviewer stated "true love does exist" and the couple agreed ...and I sat alone on my couch thinking..I once believed that, I once had that kind of love...but I don't believe in "love" anymore.

We have been damaged by this, and in your case the father who left you, discarded you.

I do agree with your therapist's words:

Quote
I keep repeating my therapist's words...just because they could not love you does not mean you are not lovable.

I am sorry for all your losses. I know I consider all the good things I have in my life, but that pain lingers of the loss of what I thought was a forever love.
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#92: August 22, 2022, 06:57:11 AM
Quote
But she also told me that a few years later, she did cry. Not for the father or person he was, but bc there would never be even a sliver of possibility now that he could one day be the kind of father that she had yearned for and spent many years trying to please in the hope that he would.

This just struck me; it's very much how I feel.  My father didn't have an MLC, my parents' divorce had different reasons, but I was never important to him. And my sister was.  He is now elderly and frail; the time has passed where he could even apologise for anything, where that type of conversation could even be had, I am just coming to terms with it all in my head.  I don't know how I feel when he eventually does go, but what is quoted above is probably pretty much on the mark. 
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#93: August 22, 2022, 07:07:18 AM
My father was also an alcoholic and a Mid-Lifer. After a certain point, I could just no longer deal with his negative "everyone is out to get me and the world hates me"  attitude. When I found out he had committed suicide, I was simply numb. Part of me was sad for him but there was also a sense that there was one less bitter hateful person in the world.... Not exactly the way one wants to remember a parent but that is what he was at the end....

My MLC'ers father also died in the tunnel.... He was on the "wash-rinse-spin-repeat" cycle in an ever tighter cycle. At the end, he was going from woman to woman in months. Every marriage he had was ended with an affair....
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#94: August 22, 2022, 07:38:22 AM
S66 sorry to hear about this. We tried to reconnect with my father and we gave him money. He was a gambler and still is. Despite the help we did, he told his sister we starved him. That was it, we cut all ties with him and never spoke to him again. I don’t miss him or have any feelings towards him anymore. He left us when I was 11 and never even apologized to any of his children. My mom was right, he is a stranger to us.

Regarding abandonment for us who have been abandoned as kids my therapist told me it’s harder to cope with the issue with it happened with our husbands because it’s like relieving the pain we suffered as children. All the wounds have been opened up again and it’s hard to distinguish if this was the pain from now or from your childhood which makes it harder for healing. And she is absolutely right.

She keeps reminding me when I say I miss my husband if the person I miss is the person he was before or the person he is now. She would ask me if I want to be with the person he is now. I always remind myself all’ these questions when I start crying because I miss my husband.
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#95: August 22, 2022, 09:17:20 AM
Quote
Regarding abandonment for us who have been abandoned as kids my therapist told me it’s harder to cope with the issue with it happened with our husbands because it’s like relieving the pain we suffered as children. All the wounds have been opened up again and it’s hard to distinguish if this was the pain from now or from your childhood which makes it harder for healing. And she is absolutely right.

Agree..

I am sorry for your losses, Schratz, I really do know how hard it all is
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#96: August 25, 2022, 11:12:45 AM
Big hugs Schratz.

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#97: October 10, 2022, 05:21:42 PM
Catching up Schratz.  I am so sorry that even before he died, that your F could not see the reality for what it was.  And that OW is not a good person to make amends to the two of his children either.  You are lovable and are definitely worth far more.
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#98: October 19, 2022, 10:53:11 AM
Thank you all so very much for your compassion....the loss of my father and his last 'sticking' it to us has been an odd one to deal with. For one I am just glad that my mother was no longer alive to find out about it, it would have devestated her. I wasn't so much grieving that he is gone but grieving that now all hope was gone and then of course we wonder what if MLC passes and all that hope would be gone. Could I handle it ?

Three weeks ago I did have surgery to get that new hip and sure while they make it seem like it's an easy surgery and sure, you are up walking the same day, the doctors do not tell you how painful it is for the first 10 days. I have a high pain tolerance or so I thought , but dang....it hurts.....much better now and while still tender it is manageable. I was back working from home after a week and I am glad to stay busy.

MLC kept his word since July that he would not contact me any more until it was over with her. He must have heard from somewhere about me being in the hospital because yesterday he asked if he could call me. Deer in headlight look on my face as I have not spoken to him on the phone since June of 2017. I said, sure he could call.........I could tell he was nervous and he sounded like he had some liquid courage in him already but he asked how I was doing and we spoke for 30 minutes about work and acquaintances and his parents property issues and it was a nice conversation but not an intimate one. Like talking with a neighbor or an old classs mate.....I don't know what I expected but I was disappointed that there were no warm buzzy feelings for me talking to him. He also asked if our date for Jan 16th was still on and I said yes and he said he was looking forward to it.

After we got off the phone, I emailed him that I enjoyed our conversation and maybe we could do it again and he said we sure would. Anyhow, as I am lingering from that conversation my mind went to what my favorite character trait of his was.......because even crappy people or people that I don't care about - I can always find one redeeming character trait.........I could not think of one thing and how sad is that...I sued to say his honesty and integrity but that went out the window when he left via text.

So then, if I cannot even think of one positive, why am I still so invested in wanting him back ? Is it just an ego thing that I want to win in the end ? I don't think so because I really and truly still care about the man - but I don't know why I love him.

Anyway - enough pondering and rambling.....thank you again to all

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#99: October 19, 2022, 06:57:38 PM
Hey S66. It's good to hear from you (I was just wondering how you were going).

Glad your surgery went well, even if painful. I've had a few friends that have had similar major surgeries recently and they were also surprised at the level of pain in the first few days/week. But what always astounds me is the progression after those first few days/week. It's really quite incredible how quickly our bodies heal isn't it. As we all know though, unfortunately not quite the same for our damaged psyches. That's a much longer healing process in my experience.

Quote
After we got off the phone, I emailed him that I enjoyed our conversation and maybe we could do it again and he said we sure would. Anyhow, as I am lingering from that conversation my mind went to what my favorite character trait of his was.......because even crappy people or people that I don't care about - I can always find one redeeming character trait.........I could not think of one thing and how sad is that...I sued to say his honesty and integrity but that went out the window when he left via text.

So then, if I cannot even think of one positive, why am I still so invested in wanting him back ? Is it just an ego thing that I want to win in the end ? I don't think so because I really and truly still care about the man - but I don't know why I love him.

I also have similar thoughts often. Do I really miss/love the actual man, or do I miss the romanticised version? Have I just forgotten/minimised all the ways he used to drive me crazy? What is/was it that I really loved about him?

I will say though in my case, when I have spent time recently with him, I DID still have those feelings of excitement and love and attraction (and it FELT like he did as well (I definitely know he was feeling attracted at least as he told me so!)). I am often bewildered by LBS that see their MLCer and feel nothing. Not because I think they're wrong/weird/better/worse. But because it's just so the opposite of my reaction. I try to have stern talks to myself about still being so invested, even after 4 years, in wanting a relationship with him again. But my heart is stubborn and wilful with a 'mind' of it's own. It just doesn't seem POSSIBLE to my poor little heart that we won't get back together/have a relationship ever ever again. I wouldn't even call it hope. It's more like a knowing. Or I guess an expectation. Which is pretty scary because, as we all have drilled into us... HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS. Urghhhh!

As we've discussed before, feeling this way after so long is pretty unusual around here these days. So just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in still 'wanting him back'. I think you're doing a great job of inching forward and seeing what happens without being all starry-eyed and naive.

Please check in again to let us know how your recouperation is going.   
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#100: October 20, 2022, 12:35:02 AM
Hello 66, glad to hear your surgery went well.

From a different perspective than Ever perhaps, I too want to validate that you are entitled to feel how you feel. Or not feel. Or partly feel. Or don’t know how you feel. The trick it seems to me is to be able to detach a little, like an observer almost, from those feelings and let our actions be shaped by a broader picture and our own self interest. Love and attachment are surprisingly sticky and layered things, aren’t they? Anyone who thinks there is a fixed clock or a set of firm rules probably hasn’t walked in your shoes.

It seems to me that, for there to be any kind of reconnection after this kind of relationship explosion, there would need to be a stage of almost getting to know the other person with a changed eye. Bc this kind of experience is life and lens altering. Well, unless you weren’t paying attention lol. At the same time, I imagine a mental ghost of the old person you loved lives tucked away in your head but of course any kind of connection from here on - acquaintanceship, friendship or intimate - would need to be based on who/what they are now, wouldn’t it? And it’s ok too for you to take a sniff at that and decide it doesn’t offer you enough of what you need or too much of things that you don’t need. A strange place to navigate, i’d Imagine....so please be kind to yourself about that.

Did your xh seem to you to have evolved in significant ways? Or not so much? Or in ways that you wouldn’t find appealing in a new connection?

I think - unwelcome as it might be - it is worth reminding yourself of the context of the conversation. You had not long lost your father, with all the complicated emotions that go along with that, and were recovering from a painful surgery having been less available/visible to him bc of your job move so he couldn’t just leave tomatoes on your desk. Unlikely that some of this context did not affect his choice to reach out and your response imho. I also note that you had asked him not to contact you unless ow relationship was over? That was a boundary for you, that you set for your own reasons, but you did not mention (or perhaps you do not know) if that is the case. If it is not - and no judgement just a tap on the shoulder - either he is ignoring your boundary or you are. Or you both are. And that might be worth pausing to muse on.  If anything, from stories here, it seems that reconnection might need different kinds of boundaries but strong boundaries matter as it is not a quick or straightforward process. Just a thought.

What’s the Jan 16th ‘date’ about?
And how are things going with the rest of life?
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#101: October 20, 2022, 06:54:20 AM
Quote
I don't think so because I really and truly still care about the man - but I don't know why I love him.

I was thinking about what you wrote when I woke up this morning.  We had good lives when we were married and our memories of those years are real. We did not have any preparation for what happened, so suddenly and shockingly and we didn't get any say in the end of our marriage.

Something huge changed my husband, and when we read all the stories here, the descriptions of them and the things they end up doing surprise us, but are also similar in many ways. Here we call it Mid Life Crisis and it is identified as such in many other places as well.

Some LBSers walk away as well. Love dies perhaps, or they separate their feelings from the reality, they find another partner or they just don't want anything to do with the person who caused so much pain. Others, continue to feel love for their spouse, whether they have contact with them or not.

I could almost compare it to a death of a loved one (for indeed the person we knew is no more)...we don't stop loving someone who died...those feelings remain.

It has been mentioned that we need to be careful about giving "ultimatums" unless we are really sure that is what we want. I see "boundaries" as setting something in stone. Sometimes boundaries are necessary for our health and well being. Sometimes they are walls that prevent opportunities for healing.

Quote
He must have heard from somewhere about me being in the hospital because yesterday he asked if he could call me. Deer in headlight look on my face as I have not spoken to him on the phone since June of 2017. I said, sure he could call.........I could tell he was nervous and he sounded like he had some liquid courage in him already but he asked how I was doing and we spoke for 30 minutes about work and acquaintances and his parents property issues and it was a nice conversation but not an intimate one. Like talking with a neighbor or an old classs mate...

He was respectful, he asked you if he could call and you agreed. That is a very long time not to have heard his voice. His conversation with you was "superficial" , safe topics, because  as you said  "he sounded like he had some liquid courage in him already'....perhaps this was hard for him as well?

Quote
I don't know what I expected but I was disappointed that there were no warm buzzy feelings for me talking to him.

I am not surprised. Remember the relationship we once had is long gone. To allow contact requires practice, I have said this before, to get to a place where it doesn't shake us, to be ok with what is, no expectations...and maybe all that is is someone who once loved you and wanted to make sure you were ok.

We are all different here Schratz and I think it is good that you come back and write about how these interactions affect you and consider all the implications of what having some contact means to you.

I accept my husband's contact, not as his wanting to return to our marriage, but because somehow I still matter to him, and he still matters to me. It's always our choice to allow contact or not and we can also change our mind .....that is in our control.

Glad you are on the mend. When I had my knee replaced it was so painful and the meds made me so sick but it was worth it in the end.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 06:57:09 AM by xyzcf »
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#102: October 20, 2022, 07:32:23 AM
Ever,
Isn't it crazy that we have to differentiate now between the man we used to know better than ourselves and the ideas / fantasies about that man ? I will never hesitate to say that I love that man and I do, and I can whole heartedly say that I do want a relationship back with him and my heart still flutters when he emails or when I think about him, but that call was odd....he did not sound like himself and maybe that was because he was nervous or drunk...idk....
Like you (and maybe that means I am delusional) I always always had the strong feeling that we were not over. And like I said he must have had the same feeling somewhere because from teh get go he always said he wasn't sure we were over and done with either....was it for him just to have a back up plan or did he really feel that we weren't over ....I don't know..

Treasure,
Love and attachment truly are sticky and layered and even figuring out the difference between love and attachment is tough. Do I love the man - absolutely....am I open to whatever may come.....absolutely.....but I would want to start slow as if dating a new person for the first time. Is he ready for it...I have no idea......he seems to have evolved over the last 6 months...which is when he randomly apologized for everything and acknowledged what he did was wrong and that he created a mess .....I did ask him to not contact until he was over with OW and he has absolutely honored that and I cannot blame him for reaching out when he heard I was in hospital....so I guess we both broke the boundary.
The Jan 16th date came about during the last longer email exchange with him back in July.....he said he still loved me, he made a mess and did not want to string me along but there was hope.....I know...wishy washy.....anyway.....he asked to see me and I suggested Jan (which at the time was 6 months out) as I would be done with surgery and rehab and maybe he would have closed the property dispute with his parents assets that has him stressed to the max.
I know that I am focusing way too much on this date as I see it as either the end or a new beginning. He will either have to let me go for good or let me back into his life as the only one. I honestly cannot do these emotional balancing acts much longer. Sure, most people would say ...well, you don't need him to let you go, you just let yourself go...and that is very true because I am handing my power over to him...I don;t know....obviously I am still a mess and do not put saving my own heart and soul over his. And isn't it absolutely insane how I know I am at peace when I do not hear from him, but the slightest word from him sets me back into a hamster spinning wheel where I cannot function or even think straight. It truly is an addiction and I have read so many books on healing your child hood trauma and abandonment issues and how to learn to love yourself and logically I am all in, but then 'Bang" - it all goes back out the door.

XYZ,
as always thank you for your wisdom and if you could bottle up your calm and wisdom and sell it to me I would pay whatever price for it. Boundaries and ultimatum......he never has liked Ultimatums and I have honestly never given him one, because none of this is really up to him at this point, it is all up to me.....boundaries....he has respected every one I set and if it was broken it was me reaching out, which I had not since July to give him plenty of space to figure himself out.  I told him on the phone that he sounded nervous and of course he denied it, but just the fact that he had a few drinks before tells me that he was nervous....I have learned to differentiate between his words and his actions....i.e. 'he doesn't want to string me along' is what he says but he has over 5 years like clockwork contacted me every 6-8 weeks to see if I would respond and I consider that stringing. "he still isn't sure" is what he says, but he would not have said he still loves me and any time I reach out....he replied within minutes, so I know I still matter to him.
I am so grateful to this forum and it is always calming to me to put down what happened and how I feel and then get feedback from people I trust and that are not immediately involved in the situation and have clearer perspectives.

Thank you Ever, Treasur and XYZ for your always very accurate feedback and observations.

Do I keep my boundary of no contact again or do I encourage contact so he can figure things out but that would seem as if I am competing and trying to convince him that it should be me and I am not sure I want that dance.....but is silence beneficial at all ? Se,, the masters are in full force and running rampid as always after contact and dangit after 5 years of this and being 56 I should not fall prey to these hamsters as easily anymore....

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#103: October 20, 2022, 11:32:30 AM
S66 I can understand where you are coming from. I still love my H too and if he had continue contacting me, I would have been in that hamster wheel too. For me the no contact, helped a lot to distance myself and to see the whole situation as an outsider. But if he ever contacts me again, I don’t know how I would react. Maybe like you. My heart just like you still has that hope and misses him so much (talking about my old H) but my ego just cannot forget what he did. So I‘m somehow also in between. Some days I miss him a lot and I wish we were back together. He wanted to get back together but I didn’t want it because it was according to his conditions and I wasn’t willing to step on myself anymore.

Maybe your H wants you to be always there because he feels secured with you. It’s crazy really with this MLC. Up until this day  I still don’t get it.
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H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
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#104: October 20, 2022, 11:34:19 AM
It’s good to know that I am not the only one having a hard time moving on after 3 years in this. Thanks for sharing S66
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H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
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#105: October 20, 2022, 02:07:47 PM
Glad your op went ok Schratz.
This contact from him is quite something to get your head around after all this time. Your boundary of not wanting to hear from him until OW is gone is a good one - is he sticking to that? Has she gone?
One day at a time...you've got this far....you've come do far..you don't have to decide anything quickly...
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#106: October 21, 2022, 06:38:17 AM
Dragonfly,
You are much further along in your healing than I and I am proud of you for not wanting to step on yourself by going back on his conditions. I am not sure that I have that strength.

Music,
He was sticking to that boundary...except for the call when he heard I was in the hospital. OW is still somewhere but apparently it's not working out too well and he is not sure about her either....go figure....he has always been somebody that much rather others make his decisions for him.....i.e. my take is that he is waiting for her to break up with him....I know, he is a coward, and yet....here I am.....
Thank you for the reminder of One day at a time......contact always makes me want everything and right now and I keep telling myself that it's been 5 years so I can wait and see and just let go.

Morning thoughts...
This call through me back into the black abyss I was in at BD....all day yesterday I was a mess, crying, not eating, not sleeping.....wanting to go crawl in a cave and just stop existing for a while.

This morning I know I have to stop it. For my health, my sanity and so that my daughter will not lose her mom again for a while.....she deserves more.
I cannot control anything. I have to let go and let be what may be. I have to let go of the false believe that he is the only happyness in life. This is an addiction and I must break it. This is endangering my health - both physical and mental.
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#107: October 21, 2022, 07:54:57 AM
I would often feel like that after contact with him. My therapist used an analogy that helped me. She told me to think of a slinky toy, that yes, I would go backward but never ever back to the beginning. That I had made so much progress, that the backward spiral kept getting less and less each time there was contact and I would recover much faster each time.

I know how badly it hurts. I believe those feelings are important to face and deal with. They are real and can't be swept away just because we tell them to. I continued to work with a therapist on and off and especially focused on my fight/flight/freeze neural pathways and that led me to recognize why my body was responding so intensely.

If you look at the red part of this chart at the top you might associate with some of what happens when we go into "freeze". I found it helpful to realize that this was a normal reaction to a threat but that my body was capable of coming down from that as well. We have been terribly traumatized by their crisis and so our bodies respond to that as they are programmed to. I used to ponder why, but the "threat" of somehow being hurt again was so high that it would send me into the "freeze" zone.

https://www.rubyjowalker.com/polyvagal_theory.html

This is for me personally Schartz...I wanted to be free from his ability to shake my world when there was contact. That was important to me.

For many many others, not having contact brings them peace.

So do whatever is the right thing for you. Because we really need peace to be able to enjoy our lives.

It was interesting that you mentioned wanting to crawl back into the cave and cease existing for a while....I too have spent much time inside a cave...when I first found my therapist, it took quite a long time to get me to venture out of it.

I am so sorry that this has upset you. I think we all can feel that pain, we know it only too well. I hope that it resolves quickly, for you are right, our health and well being is a risk.

Please let us know how you are doing.

(((HUGS))))
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 07:56:42 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#108: October 21, 2022, 08:20:35 AM
I really appreciate the Hug XYZ...it came at the right time...that chart is interesting and I truly felt all the bodily reactions of terror as if a man with a gun was in my house...which cognitively is absurd but then I just realized for myself what it is.....it is the not knowing what will happen and the not having any control over it. Both of those have always been my worst enemies. If you know what's happening we think we can prepare ...at this point I have no idea what will happen and I cannot control how he feels about me and both are terrifying even though I survived the same scenario before.

I sure feel like a slinky...lol.....let's hope it just goes back a couple of steps and not entire stairwells...I cannot go back to that dark place.

Maybe it is time to go back to therapy...I went in the beginning for several months, but now might be a good time to go back as I do believe deep down it all is connected to my fathers MLC.

Thank you for your support XYZ - it truly means a lot to me
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#109: October 21, 2022, 08:27:31 AM
I agree very much with what xyzcf said here.

I have no useful opinion on what you should or shouldn’t do regarding future contact.
But I know the cave lol
So i’d like to invite you to look at it through a slightly different window.

That it is not a failure of character or even about love, but a function of trauma.
That you are not addicted or stupid or slow or delusional.
That your brain and body....quite independently from your conscious or cognitive choice (which can feel a bit scary too, can’t it?)....can be triggered back into a fight/freeze/flee response and then sets off its own cycle of hypervigilance. Your brain thinks it’s doing a good job, of course, bc it is reacting to protect you and thinks this is the best way to do that.
But that isn’t the whole truth bc you have choices and you can learn to temper how that bit of your post-trauma brain works.....CBT,  NLP or EMDR can all do a good job for different people. A therapist who knows how to work with trauma can help. Body-based things like some kinds of yoga or meditation can help.
And bc your little trauma system was triggered, that’s exhausting bc lots of different hormones and chemicals dash round your system, so you need to be very gentle with yourself and your body and do lots of whatever experience tells you calms that mofo down  :)

Practically speaking, nothing has actually changed.
Practically speaking, you do not have to make any decision about any of it right now.
And we get it and we’re here if you need support xxx
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 08:30:07 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#110: October 21, 2022, 08:40:11 AM
 
Quote
Practically speaking, nothing has actually changed.
Practically speaking, you do not have to make any decision about any of it right now.
And we get it and we’re here if you need support xxx

Thank you Treasur and tears are flowing again.....but I just wrote that down on a piece of paper and will keep reading it.
I also just reached out to a new therapist near me that specializes in EFT (Emotional Focused Therapy) to get an appointment.
Of course new Therapists are freightening as well as you have to unpack your entire life and all the shame and guilt and expected judgement is a tad scary for an introvert like me. I picture it as me in my cave bringing our ugly old furniture one piece at a time until there's a mountain of crap at the therapists' feet and then I say...now fix it.....lol

Gosh - I yearn for peace and healing and acceptance and when I grow up I want your and XYZs strong silent faith that everything will be okay and that fate  will do what is best for me.

Thank you for your support
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#111: October 21, 2022, 09:26:01 AM
The fact that you are very aware of your feelings is a really positive thing.

Quote
Maybe it is time to go back to therapy...I went in the beginning for several months, but now might be a good time to go back as I do believe deep down it all is connected to my fathers MLC.

I saw a therapist for about 2 years after BD. Maybe I was still so much in shock, or perhaps "talk" therapy wasn't what I needed. I stumbled through the next several years..8 years after BD I realized I was stuck and it happened that I was introduced to a therapist that specializes in trauma.

She gave me back my life. She helped me to find xyzcf again. I saw her again in the spring of 2021 after my sister and dog died, and not being able to see my family due to COVID  because I wasn't able to feel "joy" and I wanted to...because of the previous work we had done, it didn't take many sessions  to unlock that part of me and put me back on track.

One thing I had to get my head around, because prior to BD I never needed "therapy" and I was a pretty resilient person so it was hard for me to "accept" that I was having trouble coping. The right therapist can make a world of difference. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to see a therapist.

Quote
Gosh - I yearn for peace and healing and acceptance and when I grow up I want your and XYZs strong silent faith that everything will be okay and that fate  will do what is best for me.

I still have my days Schratz, it never completely goes away and there are trigger dates. Each day, I sort out how best to live and acceptance is key that what I wanted in my life is not how things turned out.

I would never say that my life is "better" now than when I was married..but it's ok.

Lots more hugs being sent your way!

This is pure gold Treasur:

Quote
Practically speaking, nothing has actually changed.
Practically speaking, you do not have to make any decision about any of it right now.
And we get it and we’re here if you need support xxx
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 09:27:33 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#112: October 21, 2022, 11:29:26 AM
All hugs are accepted and much appreciated XYZ.  Joy .... feeling joy.....oddly enough I can but only when I am spending time with my daughter...those moments are pure joy, so I know it is in me to feel it....the other time I felt joy was with my mother...rest her soul.....and then with MLC.
I realize I should feel joy and happiness by myself and not only around people and that is what I hope to find with a new therapist. Right after BD my main goal with therapy was to just survive each day, to not hurt myself, to see that BD was not the end of life.
Now what I hope to find is how to love myself, to heal the wounds of my fathers abandonment somehow and to become a whole person. It is time.

Practically Nothing has changed. I still do not know where he is at emotionally - I do not know what his intentions are - he knows how I feel and it is all up to him. I want this so bad.....and it seems closer than it has in years....but it might not be anything.....however, he did say that it is not all in my head...lol

Ugh............URSA, ask me how many times I will stab that fork into my eye before realizing it hurts......tell me I cannot taste the color green...lol.....

I will never know why he is choosing now to call, why he seems different, why he said he still loved me, why he wants to give me hope.......

Why - why - why ....this is a flashback to 2017.....lol......

Nothing has changed. Let it go. It is beyond my control...


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#113: October 21, 2022, 03:43:37 PM
Oh S66 I can’t add much to what Treasur and XY have written, except to say I know how you’re feeling. Oh and many virtual hugs!

After my Hs T&G in May, where I felt just like you do now (esp the bit about wanting it all to move forward NOW, and the questioning about why would he give me hope like that and then go away again). It also put me back in the pit of despair, of not knowing, of panic. The advice that I got then (nothing has actually practically changed) really did help to calm my system.

I was then quite amazed at how quickly I righted myself; and all seemingly without much conscious effort. If felt like my ‘(brain) muscle memory’ just kicked in and hoisted me up and out! I even have this weird visual of being at the bottom of a dark mine shaft and suddenly, ‘brrr’ the elevator whirs to life and it slowly clanks me back to the surface.

I still have times now where my brain ‘goes there’ and I can feel the panic and ‘WTAF?!!!’ rising. But I’m pretty good at dialling them down again now. But it’s always there. Always in the background. So I get you.

I hope for you also, that your ‘(brain) muscle memory’ elevator clicks in and lifts you back up very soon. You have done it before. You can do it again.

As for the discussion around your boundary of OW having to be gone before you have any contact, I think everyone will have different thoughts on how firm you need to be on that. There are multiple stories where there has been a reconnection/reconciliation where the OW ‘wasn’t quite gone’ at the early reconnection stage.

I’m not going to be able to articulate this well, so forgive me (I always have trouble on this site for some reason articulating my thoughts well, and typing in the little box on my phone doesn’t help!). I think it depends on what you want. If your goal is, for now, to investigate whether having a new relationship with him is a possibility (ie reconnecting), then, to me, it makes no difference whether she’s around or not. She has nothing to do with ‘you and him’. If your goal becomes ‘getting back together as a couple’ (ie reconciliation) then that does change whether someone else being around is ok. This is how I have managed it in my head anyway.

Because I have struggled a bit with how I feel about this. One of the reasons I gave him at the start (and that I also give myself) for why I am of better character than the OW, is because I think she is a needy, greedy, weak person with low character for starting a romantic relationship with a married/attached man. I said I would NEVER do that. And yet… isn’t that what I would be doing if he started to contact me and talk about a return before he had ended it with her? My friends I’ve asked about this tell me it’s very different and I get a ‘free pass’ if that were to happen. My moral compass though disagrees, lol.

So, I have instead drawn lines in my head, in effect boundaries for MYSELF, rather than for him. Of what type of contact I will participate in with him. Comforting him over the imminent death of our doggo (who is still going strong BTW 😳) and lying on the floor with him reminiscing and being close, and a hug goodbye and kiss on the head is ok. The pass, attempt at a ‘proper’ kiss… nope! That crosses my moral line.

So anyway, that was a really long self-indulgent ramble that I likely should have written on my thread. My point is, that re ‘whether the OW is still around or not’ I don’t think it matters in my or your situation at the moment (hoping for ‘reconnection’). For me thinking about it that way reduces ‘one of the things I worry about’. So I thought it might be helpful for you as well.

Sending big hugs. Message anytime if you need an ear/shoulder (as I’m on the other side of the world to you I’ll be awake when it’s your middle of the night 😉).
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D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
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BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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#114: October 22, 2022, 07:09:35 AM
Thank you so much Ever...for the hugs and everything...and mainly for being in the mineshaft of hope with me.
At this point I wonder if maybe I am insane and imagining everything so I read through 2 years of his messages and this was the timeline.

2017-2021 Every 6 weeks random messages but nothing really personal
Feb 2021 - He reread an old love letter from me and said it made him want to die
Sep 2021 - He said he still thought about me and cared about me - he is not fully committed to OW
Feb 2022 - He said he f*&cked up so bad and it's too late to correct and he deserves his mess
March 2022 - There is hope for us but he does not want to string me along
July 2022 - He is so sorry for everything - he hates that he hurt me and he still loves me and would love to meet for a date. OW and him are not solid and he will not contact me until they are over (to me indicating that they will be over)
Oct 2022 - for the first time since BD he called and we just chatted about neutral stuff and he said he enjoyed talking to me

So, in my mind he clearly was moving through something and we went from liking and caring to using the word love in his messages and he does not use that word lightly.

Oct 2022 - he wants to keep the date but might be best not to contact as he is under a lot of stress and still with OW but odds are 40/60 (me being 60) and then he said (no, I did not ask) just for the record he has not been to see OW in quite some time.

WHY......be with OW if they do not see each other and she was not there when his mother passed......
WHY....tell me he still loved me and then retreat back into no contact .........

I sit me that is insane or does this make sense to anybody else.....is it normal for them to come along and then retreat back ????

The last 1.5 yeasr he always made mention about that OW and him is not happily ever after but still he stays with her........and clearly he is feeling something......

What am I supposed to do with that ? Well, I tell you what I have been doing with that....I have been hamster wheeling, not eating, not sleeping and crying my eyes out which I need to stop.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.....practically...except in my heart where hope springs eternal and I am starting to loathe myself for letting him get t me and for even still caring.....some times I sure wish I would have had the strength so many LBS have and from the get go say - that's it - he's a right git and I deserve better and file for divorce and move on.......

Ever - how do you deal with not letting the hope bloom ?

I have done good for 5 years to just read his messages and not let them destroy me, so why is it so hard this time to get back into the groove of just moving on.......

Sorry for rambling on, but I just need to write it all down to get it out of my head...






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#115: October 22, 2022, 07:48:23 AM
Quote
so why is it so hard this time to get back into the groove of just moving on.......

You have just had surgery and the death of your father. The could be a multitude of other issues that weigh upon you, for me it is COVID (still a threat), the economy, the war, the political mess, climate change....when I had my knee surgery, I found that I really was "sad" that he was not with me to help me, when my sister died I also felt intensely sad that he was not there to comfort me...it brought me back to what it was like to have a loving husband and reminded me that this was no more.

I watched a program last night on NOVA on the use of psychedelics in the treatment of addiction, depression and PTSD. Our brains are affected by trauma and the thought patterns that become a broken record. The drugs somehow broke the "cycles", freeing people from their addictions, their depression and PTSD.

For some of us, some type of intervention is necessary to break these cycles of "despair" because sometimes, as much as we would wish, the result of the trauma has managed to take over our thoughts.

Reading your post this morning, it came to my mind something that we say all the time....live as though he is never coming back.

Quote
is it normal for them to come along and then retreat back ????

Well, nothing is "normal" in the way they are. They may not realize that their actions or words have quite a different effect on us then their intention. There are many reasons for their contact with us and we can only "guess" why they do or say certain things and then not follow through.

Remember, this is his journey. Acceptance that whatever happens, as hard as that is, helps a great deal to bring you to a place of peace.

There is no timeframe for grief. When grief is causing us to "hamster wheeling, not eating, not sleeping and crying my eyes out which I need to stop." then it becomes a problem for our emotional and physical health.

I don't have any answers to what works to resolve these intense feelings.....I cannot wish to be like another LBSer who is able to shut the door and not care about their spouse anymore...that's just not me...so I accept that about myself to.

Another thought I just had, I do not think we realize how long it will take to find that peace. I am looking back at this from more than 13 years, you are looking back from 5...I know it seems like a very long time to still experience so much pain.

I hope that it will switch off soon.

All these things that he has been doing, try not to read too much into them. Just because they are having a crisis, doesn't mean that they do not care about us. We often became too caught up in analyzing every move they made, searching for some kind of pattern that would indicate that they were "moving through the tunnel", hoping that meant they would soon be home.

I know it's hard and I think that writing it out here is a very good "therapy" and will help you to sort out how you are feeling and what to do to move forward.

More ((((HUGS)))))
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 07:50:46 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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#116: October 22, 2022, 09:42:01 AM
Thank you xyz - It is a beautiful day today and I drug myself out to the park hoping the sun will help. The funny thing is that when I watch shows about domestic violence and these poor woman bruised and battered keep saying abut I love him and that seems to be me.
Emotionally battered and beaten with the only one to blame being me and all I can say is ‚but I love him‘.
My daughters only response on the subject is „why do you still talk to him and I honestly have no answer.
None of this is on him. Iota's truly about me and my issues.
What if today was my last day ? I am not spending it crying over spilled milk.
Park, river, sun and a new mystery novel here I am.
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#117: October 22, 2022, 10:04:12 AM
Quote
My daughters only response on the subject is „why do you still talk to him and I honestly have no answer.
I think you do, 66. I think your post shows that you do it bc you are looking for signs....good or bad.
Which then creates that horrid anxious hypervigiliance feeling, bc tbh everything he seems to offer right now is uncertain....odds and maybes and words that do not translate into actions.....so it’s a trauma loop.
How very honest of you to say that your instinct is that these current feelings are about you, not about him.
But please don’t start loathing yourself, dear girl....nothing good or useful comes of that.
A kinder eye would say that you a) have residual unresolved trauma and b) that you have expectations and wishes which are not the reality of how things are right now. As xyzcf said, and it was my experience too, Acceptance was a useful key. Although it took me YEARS  ::) ha Ha very slow learner  :)

Your h may have all kinds of feelings and thoughts.....but the current reality is that he is not part of your life right now. He isn’t there and has not been there for quite a while. That may or may not change....and yes it’s very common from the stories here that they do this, hence why we say to believe very little of what they say. But tbh, even if he means what he says, he does not mean it enough or in a way to be trying to return to your life. If/when he does, you’ll know.....so practically speaking, it doesn’t matter and there’s no need to worry about it now.
Today is today, isn’t it?
Not at all unusual that we rebuild after loss and trauma by living more in the moment as we set down small (sometimes tiny in my case lol) paving stones towards an easier future.
And well done on the park, river, sun and a new book.....that’s how today was, let tomorrow or a years time take care of itself.
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« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 10:09:21 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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#118: October 22, 2022, 01:06:34 PM
Your h may have all kinds of feelings and thoughts.....but the current reality is that he is not part of your life right now. He isn’t there and has not been there for quite a while. That may or may not change....and yes it’s very common from the stories here that they do this, hence why we say to believe very little of what they say.

I totally agree with Treasur on this. S66, I was in your situation until January this year. My H told me everything I wanted to hear but his actions didn't reflect his words. I tried to convince myself that he must love me because that's what he told me but it was so confusing because he was also at the same time so selfish. All that mattered to him was himself. He hurt me so many times while telling me I was the love of my life and he would never be involved with another woman not even in 10 years. Everybody told me here to believe his actions and not his words. BUt it was so hard to do that when your H was telling you all the right things you wanted to hear. Well, I finally kicked him out this year and guess what, not even a month later, he was dating a very young woman almost twice his age. So much of your the only woman I love and would spend my life with.

What Im trying to say is sometimes, we need constant reminder from others to accept the reality that is in front of you now. And like. what Treasur said, stop analyzing his words.. Words mean little when it comes to MLC. It took me a while to fully understand and accept this. When my H stopped texting me it helped me to see the whole situation for what it is. I also really worked hard on not contacting him even if I needed help from him. You will get there too S66. I fully understand how you feel now because I have been there. At some point I told myself my H died so that it would be easier for me to accept that he is gone. I'm not saying I'm totally out of being hopeful or being sad or the crying moments. I still have them, and sometimes I still look back and wish this never happened. There are times, when I miss him so much when I feel like I have this strong connection with him and I would even be so convinced that he must have been thinking of me too. But that was just my mind messing my head. 

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EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
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#119: October 24, 2022, 08:10:42 AM
Thank you Treasur and you are spot on as always....I do it because I am looking for signs every time he contacts...and it honestly is exhausting and I am so much more at peace when there's a break....expectations...yup....MLC survival 101 drilled into us...no expectations....and I am the slowest learner because I still get them....every time.....

Thank you Dragonfly for your support - much appreciated and I do need to stop analyzing. Oddly my MLC words are always distant but is actions speak a different truth...lol......he's an odd one for sure....

After he said it's better to go no contact again (hmmmmm.... I am the one not contacting him while he has always contacted me, but whatever...lol) I send one last message with some truth darts about that he wouldn't insist on the date if he wasn't curious about what's left, and that he already knows him and OW would eventually be over....he replied........You are right - I will be in touch

"I will be in touch" - grrrrrr...that rubs me the wrong way for some reason......it is not his choice to be in touch or not - it is MY choice and I am not some little girl sitting still waiting for him 'to be in touch' ..... of course the impulsive and feisty me wanted to reply straight away with "Don't bother"  but in reality I do want him to feel that he can contact, but dang.....ugggggg.....BUT.....maybe I can sustain this anger and get out of the current swamp of emotions I am in.....

Also calling several therapists this morning to see if anyone can see me....

Today is today and let tomorrow take care of itself.....Thank you Treasur....

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#120: October 24, 2022, 10:41:16 AM
My best suggestion is to go for a therapist that understands enough about trauma to be able to get the effect of our little amygdalas doing odd hiccups to try to keep us safe and how to learn ways to manage that physically. They don’t have to be a trauma specialist per se, or use a trauma based model, but they probably need to get how recovery from trauma works, jmo.
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#121: October 27, 2022, 07:09:22 AM
Just journaling today....the hamster wheeling has stopped and good old depression has set in - this truly is my life and while yes I have many blessings I would love to have a spouse and someone special in my life. It has been 5 1/2 years since I felt the joy of companionship and had a safe place. I am exhausted and tired.

Appointment with the therapist next week so I am hoping she can guide me on how to find my way out of the dark.

I am glad that I love my job but not sure if this working from home is helpful with my mental state, but it is what it is.
It will be 2  years next month that mother passed and I still wear her slippers and I still just want to pick up the phone and call her. She truly was the best human despite her drinking and she had the saddest life of them all and it still breaks my heart for her.

Feeling trapped by MLC....he gets to call all the shots and yet I have no leg to stand on because I do want him back so waiting for his epiphany is all I can do.



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#122: October 27, 2022, 12:01:45 PM
Quote
Appointment with the therapist next week so I am hoping she can guide me on how to find my way out of the dark.

I am glad that you have an appointment. This reminded me of the quote "when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear".

In my case, I was feeling stuck. I knew what joy was but could not feel joy and  something switched inside of me, not that I ever stopped wanting him to come home, but that I didn't want to feel this way anymore.

Now many times I would tell myself, I don't want to feel this way anymore but something shifted, and I was ready at that point to move into acceptance of what was. Perhaps I could have found that place on my own, but I credit my therapist with assisting me in finding the way.

It did not happen over night, and there are still areas that I contemplate and question but I truly do it from a place of knowing who I am and what I want.

Quote
Feeling trapped by MLC....he gets to call all the shots and yet I have no leg to stand on because I do want him back so waiting for his epiphany is all I can do.

It's not "wrong" to feel this way, you are being honest with yourself. Although being honest can sometimes feel painful, it also makes things clear in our minds what we do want.

But of course, what we want and what happens often are not the same...and so many times we accept that we cannot have what we want. It doesn't mean we ever have to like it.

You may be at a "turning point" and I know how much you have learned and grown over the years. Your work with the therapist will benefit from all the experience and introspection that you have about this and other things that have affected your life.

I look forward to hearing about your struggles as well as your accomplishments as you step out onto this road, one that will hopefully bring you peace and healing, all in time.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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#123: October 28, 2022, 07:09:46 AM
Quote
In my case, I was feeling stuck. I knew what joy was but could not feel joy and  something switched inside of me, not that I ever stopped wanting him to come home, but that I didn't want to feel this way anymore.

That is exactly it Xyz.....I just do not want to feel like this anymore. So I do hope that stepping back into therapy will teach me how to accept and still be able to enjoy the things that I do have in my life that are good. I am imagining and hoping that some childhood issues will be addressed and reframed in my mind and make it all less detrimental. Funny how our head knows that this is not the end of the world or the worst thing to happen but our heart and soul are lagging behind.

And it is  really not fair to my daughter to have me not fully present because I am moping and hoping and wishing and waiting for the possibly impossible.
Life is too short and I don't want to waste the rest of my years away like my mother did.




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#124: October 31, 2022, 07:53:24 AM
Instead of messaging MLC I am coming here with what I want to say to him, but can't because it does no good....

Dear MLC,
I know you apologized for everything and said it hurts you that you hurt me and you are sorry from the bottom of your heart. And I believed it. What puzzles me is that you continue to hurt me since you apologized. And you cannot be that far removed from reality that you don't realize that you are continuously hurting me. It is downright cruel to suddenly tell me you still love me and call me and tell me that you want to see me....you have always been so careful to not fuel hope in me so this is so out of character and of course I hoped until you pointed out that you are still with her even if you do not go to see her.
You have never been a cruel person so I just don't get it....but I am telling you that it's not ok. As a matter of fact this is hurting me more than anything you have done at the beginning of this. And yet, I feel trapped of not being able to tell you all this because you wouldn't understand where I am coming from and you would just withdraw back into wherever you have been hiding for 5 years.
But the fault is mine for engaging in longer messages and opening myself back up and hoping. But of I do not engage or allow myself to open then what possibility would there ever be to reconcile.....and that's what isn't fair......for me to be continuoulsy be the one to have to be hurt just to keep communication open. I don't know how much longer i can do it. It is literally killing me and I know you don't mean to and I know I cannot make you feel things that you don't but I am so tired of this. So tired. So hurt by my own hope.
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#125: October 31, 2022, 11:40:14 AM
Hi Schartz,

Glad that you wrote out what you wanted to say here and did not send it to him.

I was reading Barbie's thread this morning.  The trauma that we experience from their crisis is severe and often we question "why does this still upset me so much?"

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But the fault is mine for engaging in longer messages and opening myself back up and hoping. But of I do not engage or allow myself to open then what possibility would there ever be to reconcile.....and that's what isn't fair......for me to be continuoulsy be the one to have to be hurt just to keep communication open. I don't know how much longer i can do it. It is literally killing me

It's not your fault, none of this is your fault. We are humans with feelings and emotions and love still for a spouse who suffered a crisis. Their words and actions make no sense to us. How can they still shake us so severely?

I can only see two ways of coping with the MLCer going forward. One is to completely cut them out of our life but I am not sure that gets to the root of the "fear" in us when we happen to come across something about them or dream about them or hear from them.

The other is to become desensitized to their contact so that our reaction to a text message or an actual physical encounter doesn't shake us. That requires practice interacting with them as well as no "attachment" to any outcome. It requires a very big shift in acknowledging that they are not in our lives, they do not seem to want us to be in theirs except superficially, that although they actually might still care about us, this is not "love".

A that point some might say well then what's the use of having contact at all...that is a completely individual decision.

Their words, unless accompanied by behavior and actions really don't mean much.

A technique that my therapist taught me was to freeze frame the situation, then decrease the volume, decrease the size of the picture, decreases the intensity of the color..in my mind, shrink everything about the issue until it no longer overwhelms my senses.

I have written here before that the amygdala (the reptilian part of the brain) doesn't differentiate between a lion's mouth open to bite and your partner eating with his mouth open...they elicit the same threat and cause the same physiological response.

I want to address one more thing:

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But of I do not engage or allow myself to open then what possibility would there ever be to reconcile.

I honestly do not think it matters regarding reconciliation. If they get through their crisis and wish to reconcile, they will seek you out and truly show you that they are "ready". It would make sense perhaps to think that there needs to be communication on some level, but I honestly don't think it matters.

There is no magic solution or way to get to a place where his contact or lack of contact doesn't have some impact on your mental health. Reading many people's experiences here, talking in person to many who have been this route, abandonment, rejection and betrayal from the person we loved and trusted is devastating.

But, they also don't get to destroy our life. You matter in the greater scheme of things more than anything else...so find that path that allows you to breath, to relax come what may, to find peace...it's there...you can and will discover it...what you are experiencing right now is acute sadness and as you say it is literally killing you.

I am so sorry this hurts so much  :'(
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« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 12:06:24 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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I agree with xyz, there is real catharsis here, but it's not something he would "get". I think you are learning things about yourself and how you are in control of your boundaries, and that you too have limits. When we take ownership of how we do choose to put ourselves in pain's way, it's powerful. It gives us control back from a situation that took away any of our choices and stifled our voices. You are to blame for none of what he has chosen to do, and the injustice is real. We all know it. But you can work toward not having a salt shaker over the wound. I agree with xyz as well that if reconciliation is going to happen, that doesn't require you to constantly be aware of the open door. Focusing on you, healing, your enjoyment of life that may not be what you planned, but can be full and whole again - those goals keep your eyes off of him, the situation, and the possibilities of the future, and more on mindful moments now. Big hugs. You're so strong and giving. Give all that love to yourself that he cannot.
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#127: November 01, 2022, 07:02:38 AM
Thank you so much XYZ and Ready...I truly appreciate your input.....and it has me thinking (...lol...I know I do way too much of it...)....what if it currently hurts so much again because this is my turning point ?  It is darkest before dawn and maybe after the superficial acceptance I thought I had for 5 years this will be the turning point for me to truly, deeply and fully accept that it is what it is.

At this very moment when seeking therapy (and I am excited to get started) my wish is not as before to just get help in dealing with the situation, my goal this time is to break through old childhood wounds, and learn how to be enough for myself. This time I am seeking therapy for me, to find me, to find my joy, to find my light.

Quote
XYZ: A technique that my therapist taught me was to freeze frame the situation, then decrease the volume, decrease the size of the picture, decreases the intensity of the color..in my mind, shrink everything about the issue until it no longer overwhelms my senses.

I love that visual...thank you so much for sharing.....

Feeling hopeful that this might be another corner I turn to the end of the tunnel.

Tomorrow is the first day since surgery that I am going back to the office for work -  6 solitary weeks at home can mess with your mind even for a non social person as myself. I think the cat is glad too that he will get some breathing room  ;D





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#128: November 01, 2022, 08:01:18 AM
S66-

Therapy will be a great thing. It’s important that you feel comfortable with what you put out and get back from your Therapist. If you aren’t then switch until you find the right fit. When I go talk it is almost like talking to a distant relative that cares about me, but is objective. One of the best things my therapist said to me was when I talked about mistakes I made on my reactions to his betrayals and lies that made me feel worse about myself.  The early goings and on and offs of trying to convince an extremely  lost man to “see the light” and feeling like a fool.

She said “everything you did and said were the result and consequences of his actions. They would not have happened without what he did to you”  we are only human as is your MLCer. Sometimes the old saying about hurting those closest true you are true here. Maybe think about it in that terms. Then maybe you will feel a little live in all the pain inflicted. You can move forward without moving on if that is what you chose. That allows you to focus on you without closing future doors.
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2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#129: November 04, 2022, 03:12:28 PM
Hello,

I have started to write a response and stopped and started again. You are getting some great advice.

Quote
At this very moment when seeking therapy (and I am excited to get started) my wish is not as before to just get help in dealing with the situation, my goal this time is to break through old childhood wounds, and learn how to be enough for myself. This time I am seeking therapy for me, to find me, to find my joy, to find my light.

This is critical and you are ready for therapy. A good therapist is a guide to help you reconnect with you. To get a better understanding of what makes you tick and makes you.....you. Make this all about you so you can stand and move on your own regardless of your MLCer. Your MLCer, through his actions, made this your time and it is best to make it all about you.

Quote
.what if it currently hurts so much again because this is my turning point ?  It is darkest before dawn and maybe after the superficial acceptance I thought I had for 5 years this will be the turning point for me to truly, deeply and fully accept that it is what it is.

Maybe it is. Maybe you are actually processing acceptance at a newer and deeper level. This all takes time and everyone situation is a little different. Nothing wrong with that at all.

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It gives us control back from a situation that took away any of our choices and stifled our voices.

Wise words and it can be scary too. But you do have the power and you do have both choice and voice.

Quote
But the fault is mine for engaging in longer messages and opening myself back up and hoping. But of I do not engage or allow myself to open then what possibility would there ever be to reconcile.....and that's what isn't fair......

I agree with XYZ on this is not your fault. Of course you are going to have hope and open yourself up. You have to become desensitized to it to a point where you are engaged but not connected deeply. It's like the person that says, "Let's do lunch!" But you know that they don't mean it and neither do you. It doesn't hurt and it doesn't build hope. Your H's communication is at best from a world of confusion and when you can accept he doesn't know where he is at then you can just hear his words as mere words from a mouthpiece and nothing nowhere near connected to his mind nor his heart.

Quote
XYZ: A technique that my therapist taught me was to freeze frame the situation, then decrease the volume, decrease the size of the picture, decreases the intensity of the color..in my mind, shrink everything about the issue until it no longer overwhelms my senses.

What a great idea. I am going to try that when dealing with job related issues. I try to do it when I exercise and it seems that the issues I had prior to working out don't seem as daunting by the time I finish my workout.

My advice is be good to yourself and a lot more forgiving. You are one of God's children and loved for all of your faults and all your strengths- an you have a lot of them. Spend some time thinking about your gifts that make you special and focus on you.

Have a great weekend,

(((((Ready))))


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#130: November 10, 2022, 08:31:09 AM
Thank you Ready and Mad......

It's been almost 3 weeks since the last contact and I am doing much better.
Funny how we know not hearing from them brings so much more peace and calm into our lives and yet it seems like once again we are forgotten. But I know that he will not forget......
Going back to the office was great - I have such a fun group of coworkers and it was truly good to see them in person again and we had many laughs.

I am much calmer again and had it not for finally succumbing to CoVid I would consider myself bounced back.....the Rona hit me hard....despite being vaccinated and extremely careful in social interactions......it knocked me off my feet for almost a week......

I also had my first therapy appointment and will go for a second to see if I like her.....I want somebody that will listen and help and make me think......not sure yet if she is just a listener...so I will give it a couple more rounds........we went into my childhood and time was over before we even got to MLC...lol....which is a huge improvement because last time I saw a therapist it was forefront and all about MLC and how will I survive......

Time flies and it is almost Thanksgiving.....crazy.....I will spend a few days with my daughter helping her cook and clean for her new in laws to come visit and share the holiday and hope that nobody talks politics or religion as his family and I are on different sides....

Tomorrow my 6 week surgery check up and I feel almost back to normal as far as movement and hope to get cleared for the gym again. I do miss working out and hopefully it will help with the post op insomnia that is still plaguing me .....

All in all - much better place that I am in and thank you again for everyone that send encouragement and wisdom....could not do it with you all and for that I feel immensly grateful and blessed


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#131: November 10, 2022, 11:17:27 AM
A little on your therapy. I did most the talking for a while ( still do most ) but I wanted someone to unleash my head and it not be friends and family anymore. If I needed her input I asked, but I do think they need to let you talk for a bit to get a feel for you and your situation and how you process and cope.
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#132: November 11, 2022, 01:00:41 AM
Religion and politics are NOT topics that are conducive to good digestion, especially when coming from the opposite side of the fence...
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#133: November 11, 2022, 07:00:38 AM
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All in all - much better place that I am in

I was thinking, it's like the ocean...the "storm" creeps up on us, contact with them, anniversary dates, feelings, deep emotions, wounding, pain, despair and crashes us about, breaking apart shorelines and beaches, tearing apart houses and then it subsides and calm returns.

Watching the news last night with the destruction in Florida, an official suggested that they keep doing the same thing over and over again...replacing sand and building back up again and that something different has to be done. It's too costly to continue this way.

Each time I get "hit" by the storm, it allows me to assess the damage and then move forward once again...enjoying the peace and calm after the storm.

So glad you are feeling better!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#134: November 15, 2022, 09:01:42 AM
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Each time I get "hit" by the storm, it allows me to assess the damage and then move forward once again

And I do hope that with each storm we learn a little bit more about ourselves and how to handle the next storm....

Ursa - I promised my daughter I shall behave and not bring up either...lol...she said they would probably give me a pass anyway since I am European....lol....

I do have a question for opinions.....how do we know if we have intuition or a refusal to believe the truth ?

From the first moment my gut told me that we were not over, but at what point do you keep faith in your gut when you keep wondering if it is just a refusal to see reality ?
Am I blinded by hope or delusional ?

MadLuv .....thank you for your input ....she is in for a fun session since last time we did not even get started on MLC.....we just talked childhood and my first marriage which was abusive...


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#135: November 15, 2022, 03:32:57 PM
Quote
I do have a question for opinions.....how do we know if we have intuition or a refusal to believe the truth ?

From the first moment my gut told me that we were not over, but at what point do you keep faith in your gut when you keep wondering if it is just a refusal to see reality ?
Am I blinded by hope or delusional ?

When I read this, I have always had what we once referred to as an "inner knowing", the sensation that this was not over and I also questioned if I was believing in something in some sort of unhealthy psychological state...every time I assess this, I come up with the same conclusion. I am not delusional in any other area of my life, I don't have any other psychological issues, my therapist never felt that I was unhinged....

I do not know the answer to your question. What is the truth? That he is never coming back? Nobody knows that for sure.

What has helped me is looking at my present day reality. He doesn't want me in his life. He has a life of his own which he seems happy with. Contact with him does not mean that he wants "us" again..and thus, there are no expectations or questions about why he contacts or brings me gifts..it's just the way he is.

I think the question is, is this feeling stopping you from living your life???? If it is, then is it really a problem. If not, it may just be something in our brains that remain stuck on the idea of what once was.....it may not be possible to erase those feelings or the hope that we have.

What I am thinking here is that the present reality is that he is not my partner. I don't ask or expect anything from him. That's my reality.

Some of the posters here have written about reconnection which is not to be confused with reconciliation. And maybe that inner knowing is more a continuation of the bond between you that might always exist but doesn't mean he is coming back.

It's really totally out of our control. Any relationship going forward with him  has to be initiated by him and it has to be real...not sending a joke in a text message.

I really would not worry unless these feelings are stopping you from exploring and living your life to it's fullest. Perhaps it was Heartblessing that used to say, the LBSer grows and builds their own life and if the MLCer ever comes through their tunnel, they would be the ones that have to catch up to the LBSer..which may of course be too late anyway for we too have been on our own journey.
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« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 03:36:24 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#136: November 18, 2022, 07:47:56 AM
Thank you (again) XY....I am not delusional about any other aspect of my life and I usually have great intuition and never question it.
Why am I questioning it with MLC ?

Maybe I fear that I will be like my mother who literally died of a broken heart 40 years after BD....does it keep me from living my life ? In the grand scheme, no it does not....but what it does do is keep me from fully accepting that he may never come back. It keeps me off balance and it keeps me having expectations which I really don't want to have. So, why don't I try to change my believes and believe that he might not ever return.....I have tried to convince myself that he might be forever stuck in the "I am not sure" - which really and truly keeps me focused on him and I don't want to focus on him.

I know a lot of people start focusing on a new partner, but honestly that has never even crossed my mind. It sure might make things easier but it just isn't me. And I do not appreciate my own self for even still entertaining the fact that I want him back - where is my self respect and my dignity of knowing that I deserve better. I guess that is the eternal struggle between heart and head.

Letting go of hope seems too dark, letting go of expectations is essential and I have to find a way to do it. 
My two quotes each day are that "I cannot control his feelings" and "I don't know what will happen in 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks" .....
Enough ruminating for today.

Monday I am driving up to my daughters to help her prep and cook for her future in-laws who are coming up. Looking forward to just hugs, laughter and brightness. We have such great times when we spent time together and it will be such a blessing.





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#137: November 18, 2022, 10:13:51 AM
Quote
I know a lot of people start focusing on a new partner, but honestly that has never even crossed my mind. It sure might make things easier but it just isn't me. And I do not appreciate my own self for even still entertaining the fact that I want him back - where is my self respect and my dignity of knowing that I deserve better. I guess that is the eternal struggle between heart and head
I could have written this myself 6 months ago. I think feeling every feeling and not denying it made me finally open my eyes to it all and it happens on it’s own. You just get tired of giving someone so much space in your heart and mind that has no space for you right now. I decided to look at him as someone that very well be suffering now from a permanent PD and is doing nothing about it and with that how would anything change? I was loving someone who was inflicting pain on me. Intentionally or not. I like you have no will or desire to date. First, my kids haven't come to terms with their new step mother, so I am not adding more to the mix.

 I think just spending more time with my kids and having a good time like you makes all the difference . He honestly never comes up now. Sad to say for him. It gets better. You enjoy your time alone and your time with friends or family and that is enough for now. Don’t look to far ahead. Thats when you can freak yourself out. Just let life unfold as long as your progressing to stability and happier moments that is good enough. That’s what has worked for me. Sorry if I rambled 😂🤣
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 10:16:54 AM by MadLuv »
H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#138: December 08, 2022, 10:45:32 AM
Just journaling and trying to document my feelings to get them out of my head.
Thanksgiving was a wonderful week spent with D and her fiance and coming back home was a little sad but it is what it is.
Had my second session with the new therapist and we are working about revisiting childhood trauma and trying to work through it with the inner child approach and I think I like her and can work with her.
Have not heard from MLC since we spoke on the phone and he said he'd be in touch. It has almost been 8 weeks and that is the longest since BD that he had not reached out so I have no idea what is going on. While on one hand I am back into my routine of just living my life, it also has me somewhat in a panic that I have not experience since early on after BD. It makes no sense and not logical whatsoever but I keep panicking now what if he forgot about me - what if all over sudden he is done.....it took him 5 years until he apologized and tell me he still loved me so I don't know why after 8 weeks I feel like he is done with me and with us.
I have not reached out to him and I won't but he is way too much on my mind for my own comfort.
I read somewhere that if you cannot let go it has to do less with that person but more with the fact that you are not living a happy life to focus on. And sadly that is the truth. I am so lost with what to do with my life. I want to find a purpose, a fullfillment of sort that would make me excited each day t get up. Don't get me wrong - I have a good life with friends and work and such, but I do not feel fulfilled or that I have a purpose. Maybe I expect too much of life - I don't know.
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#139: December 08, 2022, 11:42:53 AM
Hey Schratz
I think I could have written that last post and your feelings about why your inner voice is saying to ride this out. I can't explain why I feel that same either - when I'm fairly pragmatic etc in other areas of life and while getting on with things in other areas.
I too feel I need a change of some sort. Some new challenge.
If you get any answers...shout! I'd love to know
Glad you had a good time with your D. Those relationships with our adult kids are so important.
Hugs.
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#140: December 08, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
Quote
I read somewhere that if you cannot let go it has to do less with that person but more with the fact that you are not living a happy life to focus on. And sadly that is the truth.

I find this statement to be "blaming" for not being able to find happiness because you cannot let go. Personally, I don't find that helpful.

We can "try" all we want but until the shift happens within, we may continue to be affected by the loss of someone we loved.

I read it often on HS as well as the length of time it takes to "recover".

No matter what I would have to focus on there is also the reality that I am now alone and that I miss the man I loved.

If you are finding that 100% of your time is focused on him, then there is a problem. But if you think about all the other moments in your day when you are engaged and focused on other things, I think you will find that the majority of the time you are not just focusing on him.

I don't know that we can "force" ourself to "let go". I do know that we can get to a place of peace and acceptance.

Contact or no contact doesn't mean much Schartz. Until he opens the door to truly talk with you without all the superficial crap...there is no relationship.

 
Quote
so I don't know why after 8 weeks I feel like he is done with me and with us.

We cannot lose what is already gone. They left the marriage long before we were made aware..they have been gone very long time.

Perhaps, and I don't know this to be true, but perhaps the fear is that you are giving up the idea that he would ever return?

This is something we hang onto and it's difficult to let go of this idea. We are made to be in an intimate companionship with another, most of us anyway prefer that to being alone (although there are some who feel comfortable alone, I don't)..so if we are not wired to be "happy" living alone, no matter if we fill our lives with "happy" things to focus on..the reality is that there isn't an intimate partner to share with.....

Don't beat yourself up for feeling the way you do. I don't think many here have totally forgotten their spouse...those memories are still there and if they were pleasant memories, we are going to miss the person who enjoyed life together with us.
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 12:29:20 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#141: December 08, 2022, 10:24:39 PM
I just watched a Netflix documentary called Take your pills: Xanax. It covers anxiety, fear and made me think about what I truly believe…that we must feel our thoughts and emotions and feelings, that they are real and that there are actual physiological responses to stress.
It covers the use of benzodiazepines and how addictive they can be. I think many of us have taken them at some point in our post BD journey.
You might find it helpful to watch as it emphasizes that 1/3 of people experience “anxiety” and that there are tools we can use to change the fight/ flight responses. It also talks about loneliness.

I find the more I understand the body’ responses, the more I can accept that there is nothing wrong with me concerning how I still experience sadness relating to the end of our marriage.  Just wanted to share, it’s late and hard to get the right words out.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#142: December 19, 2022, 12:18:33 PM
Thank you so much XY for your thoughts and wisdom and you are right.
There is no relationship, and no, I do not think of him all the time so I guess my life is not focused on him......the more time lapses since contact the more peaceful I become once again.
Since I started back into therapy I am trying to feel more of my feelings whatever they may be and try not to judge myself for those feelings. Sometimes it is hard to just sit with all these emotions but they come and if you let them they will leave once you have sat with them.
This feeling things purposely is a new concept for me and I am hoping it will get easier with time and won't feel so foreign.

Still have not heard anything so I know nothing and that's ok.

I am finally back to my gym routine and it feels good to move again and be active.

D and her fiance are coming in for a few days with the grand cats and I am looking forward to good times and laughter.

Wishing everyone a peaceful week until Christmas and a wonderful Christmas.


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#143: December 27, 2022, 06:19:03 AM
Christmas is over and D and her cats left to go back home.....I miss them already, but I know they have their own lives and I am happy for them. MLC send a generic Merry Christmas and while I would have been happy with that before because at least he thought about me, these days it is rather disappointing after all the email exchanges this year and him admitting he still loves me......it's like going back 2 steps and it's hard.
6 1/2 years of hoping and wishing and never getting anywhere has worn me down and I don't know how much I have left in me to not just totally shut down and give up on him, on us, on hope....

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#144: December 27, 2022, 01:14:04 PM
As usual S66 I have no good advice (because I’m in the same boat  ::)). But I can offer hugs and shared feelings and empathy. I’m very glad Christmas is over so it’ll all calm down again and many of the triggers of this time of year will be behind us. I hope that’s the case for you as well.

How’s your hip feeling? My girls got me a new Fitbit for Xmas and it feels motivating to start settings fitness goals again (I have allowed myself to get in a bit of a ‘I’ll walk tomorrow’ etc rut  :-[). Hope the weather there is ok enough for you to be getting out and about! It’s been the weirdest summer here with winter-like temps and rain for weeks and then a couple of really hot days… then back to ‘winter-weather’. Yesterday was 40 degrees (over 100) and today it’s trying to rain and back to 20! So odd.  ??? But at least better for exercising! I’m gonna get out and really get my walk on again! It’s so good for my head. Hoping you can also find something that helps ‘put your head back on straight’. It’s bloody hard I know. Thinking of ya.
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H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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#145: December 29, 2022, 07:51:13 AM
Thank you so much Evermore.....your hugs and empathy and knowing you know exactly how it feels made me tear up. I so appreciate you.
My hip is doing okay - but all the muscles and tendons are still recovering. I started going back to the gym a couple of weeks ago just to get out of the house and get in shape again......

I hope this down is simply the season and the weather and that I get over it soon.  This cannot be the rest of my life ....loving this man has really become such a difficult and complicated road and some days I wish I could just stop caring.

I do miss the old me that was full of life, laughter, joy and hope .....I know that woman is still in here somewhere bogged down by darkness and despair.

Thank you again for your support Ever - it means more than I can put into words. May you have a wonderful and happy New Year

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#146: December 29, 2022, 11:33:32 AM
Quote
I do miss the old me that was full of life, laughter, joy and hope .....I know that woman is still in here somewhere bogged down by darkness and despair.

I am not sure we can control how we feel about our spouses..often even in my sleep, I will dream about him....or thoughts of him come to me during the day.

It was at a time when I was feeling stuck that I found the therapist that did mind/body work, trauma work that allowed me to become unstuck.

I know that feeling of darkness and despair. It is draining and not conducive to feeling fully alive.

Many years down the road, I still care about him but I have a life that is mine and that brings me happiness. He is in that life, on the periphery but I don't think it would matter to me if he stayed in contact or didn't.

I recognize in him now, that the life I want and the life he wants are very different. I can only say that acceptance is probably the biggest thing that helped me to steer in a different direction, continuing to love him (I always will) but acknowledging that I cannot change things for us.

I hope that once the holidays are over, you will find some peace..it comes in tiny increments and it took me many many years to find.

Quote
MLC send a generic Merry Christmas and while I would have been happy with that before because at least he thought about me, these days it is rather disappointing after all the email exchanges this year and him admitting he still loves me

It's kind of like looking for signs that he still cares...these things they do, I am not quite sure what motivates them but some like to "stay in touch"....the thing is, unless there is some honest communication about what type of relationship they would like to have with us...it all remains very superficial...

So instead of trying to figure out what he means by these things, acceptance of this is all he has to give helps to lower your expectation of what could come next.

Quote
6 1/2 years of hoping and wishing and never getting anywhere has worn me down and I don't know how much I have left in me to not just totally shut down and give up on him, on us, on hope....

Giving up on him is perhaps different than finding your own journey without him...there will perhaps come a turning point where your inner self will break away from the hoping for the outcome that you want, and the realization that they are on a different path than ours.

It is a very hard time for us, very painful and confusing as to how to "let go". As you know, I don't have any expectations about "us"...he's welcome to be with us as it is better for our family to be together ...that is a conscious decision on my part...watching  our daughter cook with him after so many years where he paid little attention to her, watching her smiling and chatting with her dad is worth it to me and brings me joy....it might be difficult for me but still much better than not having any contact with him at all.

But, for some people, deciding to be "done" allows them greater freedom perhaps...we figure that out eventually, meeting what is important to us to become whole and healthy.
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" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#147: December 30, 2022, 04:56:47 AM
S66- you know all the reading and reading we do on this never answers all our questions, because every person and story is unique. The ILY and communication can sometimes also scare them back a little to process. You just don’t know. For me I would be glad to get that little merry Christmas again as it is better for my children ( adult or not) to know their parents still have some love for one another and so they still come from love. He thought of you. Not in the way you want, but what he is capable of. You chose if it is enough. Hugs to you
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2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#148: December 30, 2022, 07:25:50 AM
Thank you XY and Mad for your support and understanding.
I am not one to make New Year's resolutions but I am picking a word for 2023 that I hope will become my mantra for the coming year.

"Trust"
Trust that what is meant to be will not pass me by.
Trust that the universe knows what is best for me.
Trust in being able to find the fun loving me back.
Trust in me to begin living again.

Trust (not just with MLC) has been my biggest challenge my entire life. There is maybe a handful of people that I fully trust - MLC was one of them and even though he betrayed that trust - I still trust him ...how absurd is that, but he has never been malicious and I understand the life crisis he was in, so I cannot blame him for trying to fix his unhappiness with the only way he knew how...a new shiny supply (even though it wasn't really new to him and no risks were involved).

Quote
Many years down the road, I still care about him but I have a life that is mine and that brings me happiness.

I hope to get there one day XYZ as I realize I must get there to not keep wasting my life away. What helped you to find a new purpose and mission in life ? Until now my family was my passion and purpose and with D living her own life and MLC being off to the side......I need something new in my life to fuel my light.

Today marks 93 days of no binge eating. I have had that eating disorder since my father left and while it simmered down during my marriage - it flared back up after BD as I just wanted to numb the pain. On my worst days I could consume 10,000 calories in one hour.
The day of my surgery I decided I want to heal my entire body - not just the old joints and so every time the urge hits....I just sit down and feel the feelings and let it pass. Has it been easy, definitely not and each day is a challenge, but I am hopeful to be able to manage it.

Thank you again XYZ and Mad and I wish you a wonderful New Year !!!





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#149: December 30, 2022, 07:42:02 AM
You "sound" like you are moving along, making changes that will heal you in both mind, body and spirit. Keep working on the things that are damaging to your being!

Quote
What helped you to find a new purpose and mission in life ?

My faith in God's plan for me.  I have always had faith but his crisis pushed me into a deeper relationship with God. Interestingly "trust" is a really big and freeing part of my healing.

So much of my drawing closer to God has to do with believing and living His Divine Mercy..."Jesus I trust in you", prayer and asking for healing. "Be not afraid" , "love one another as I have loved you"...understanding that there is more than I can see going on.....that's my number one reason for being at peace now with all that happened.

My therapist shared my faith beliefs, so as well as being amazing in the type of mind/body work, she also was connected to my spiritual self which made things much easier.

You will get there Schratz...you recognize the "issues" and you are willing to do the work needed to become whole...the suffering we have gone through leave scars, but there are a lot of "healthy" parts still working....one thing to realize, and it's so very hard is that this takes so long to process and heal from all this..but look back to the first year or two after bomb drop and see how very far you have come.

Looking forward to hearing how the new year goes...each day is a "new day" and I focus on what each day brings and try not to think too far ahead (although the anxiety I have often messes with my head on that).
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« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 07:43:35 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#150: December 30, 2022, 12:18:34 PM
Wow S66- what a huge change on your binge eating. I quit smoking cold turkey and picked it back up for 2 weeks after I realized 10mth after my husband got married that he was married. I quit again cold turkey. Those enabling comforts are easy to fall back on. You have a new year to look forward to for change and I think TRUST in the process and in what is meant to be is not a bad way to start!
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H-54 W-58 at BD2 M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect
Aug 2016 promo requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018-I force moved out
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA in 2017-H  agrees to therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated by ow)
Sept ‘18  2nd Home in new state bought for job
Oct 2018 H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip H move to 2nd home.OW4
Dec 10 ‘20 div filed/H buy prom ring 12/12
Feb 10 ‘21  div final
March ‘21  H & OW on vaca get secretly engaged
July 2021  married OW(find out May‘22)
Oct 2021   XH moves in OW(already married,tells nobody)& SD1
Feb 2022  XH is fired -vanisher
Aug 2022. XH moves in 2nd SD2
Dec 2022. XH starts communication after 1Omths
Dec-current  frequent communication

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#151: January 01, 2023, 01:56:16 PM
Thank you XY and Mad for your support and understanding.
I am not one to make New Year's resolutions but I am picking a word for 2023 that I hope will become my mantra for the coming year.

"Trust"
Trust that what is meant to be will not pass me by.
Trust that the universe knows what is best for me.
Trust in being able to find the fun loving me back.
Trust in me to begin living again.

Trust (not just with MLC) has been my biggest challenge my entire life. There is maybe a handful of people that I fully trust - MLC was one of them and even though he betrayed that trust - I still trust him ...how absurd is that, but he has never been malicious and I understand the life crisis he was in, so I cannot blame him for trying to fix his unhappiness with the only way he knew how...a new shiny supply (even though it wasn't really new to him and no risks were involved).

Quote
Many years down the road, I still care about him but I have a life that is mine and that brings me happiness.

I hope to get there one day XYZ as I realize I must get there to not keep wasting my life away. What helped you to find a new purpose and mission in life ? Until now my family was my passion and purpose and with D living her own life and MLC being off to the side......I need something new in my life to fuel my light.

Today marks 93 days of no binge eating. I have had that eating disorder since my father left and while it simmered down during my marriage - it flared back up after BD as I just wanted to numb the pain. On my worst days I could consume 10,000 calories in one hour.
The day of my surgery I decided I want to heal my entire body - not just the old joints and so every time the urge hits....I just sit down and feel the feelings and let it pass. Has it been easy, definitely not and each day is a challenge, but I am hopeful to be able to manage it.

Thank you again XYZ and Mad and I wish you a wonderful New Year !!!

S66, I could have written this right down to the absurdity of still trusting him and the binge eating and the decision to heal myself. I agree with XY’s post below this one, you don’t sound stuck. You sound like you are slowly healing yourself.  Very deep gaping wounds need to heal from the inside out and take a very long time. If they just scab over, they fester under the scab. Slice wounds can be stitched back together and they heal more quickly. So different wounds take different time to heal. Maybe it’s that way for people in these circumstances as well? For some the slice is deep but clean and the wound can heal quicker. For others the wound is a gaping mushed up mess and it just takes a bit longer. But with good wound care, healing does eventually happen. Wishing you ‘good healing’ in 2023 xx
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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#152: January 06, 2023, 06:21:12 AM
Thanks Mad, XY and Ever......you truly are the best !!!

My therapist suggested that my new purpose for now could be 'healing'. Healing not just from MLC chaos but mainly from childhood trauma that was ripped back open. I think I like that as a purpose for now.

Whatever else may come from here on out in my life - I will never be ready to handle it until I am healed in body and mind. I want to be one of those old ladies that is just happy with being alive and seeing another day and be amazed at all the beautiful things around me.

My therapist also asked me if I had any regrets in life and I thought about that for a moment and I actually do not have any regrets. The people I love have always known what they meant to me and to me that is what life is about. Some people may have wished they would have never met their MLC, but I am still glad we met and had so many great years and I do not have any ill feelings toward him. I have empathy and truly feel sorry that his internal chaos is so big and I wish he would realize that nothing external will help him feel better about himself, but that is a journey that is up to him.

So, all in all I am in a good place at the moment.......now that my change...lol......Jan 16th was supposed to be our date he wanted back last summer......I will not contact him so if he contacts me then I will meet him but I am also ok if he does not reach out. I am trusting in the infinite wisdom of the universe.

Still have not fallen off the wagon with my binging - Day 102 now and I have to say it feels great to not be a slave to an addiction. I realize and am prepared to maybe stumble along this road of recovery but I like how I feel.

Thank you again for all your support.....
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H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

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#153: January 09, 2023, 08:43:09 PM
Gentle reminder that it's time for a new thread and to close out this one S66.

I like your word for 2023 and although I try not to make resolutions as I'm rubbish at them, I am trying to be better about my health as well.
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#154: January 09, 2023, 08:56:16 PM
Thanks Mad, XY and Ever......you truly are the best !!!

My therapist suggested that my new purpose for now could be 'healing'. Healing not just from MLC chaos but mainly from childhood trauma that was ripped back open. I think I like that as a purpose for now.

Whatever else may come from here on out in my life - I will never be ready to handle it until I am healed in body and mind. I want to be one of those old ladies that is just happy with being alive and seeing another day and be amazed at all the beautiful things around me.

My therapist also asked me if I had any regrets in life and I thought about that for a moment and I actually do not have any regrets. The people I love have always known what they meant to me and to me that is what life is about. Some people may have wished they would have never met their MLC, but I am still glad we met and had so many great years and I do not have any ill feelings toward him. I have empathy and truly feel sorry that his internal chaos is so big and I wish he would realize that nothing external will help him feel better about himself, but that is a journey that is up to him.

So, all in all I am in a good place at the moment.......now that my change...lol......Jan 16th was supposed to be our date he wanted back last summer......I will not contact him so if he contacts me then I will meet him but I am also ok if he does not reach out. I am trusting in the infinite wisdom of the universe.

Still have not fallen off the wagon with my binging - Day 102 now and I have to say it feels great to not be a slave to an addiction. I realize and am prepared to maybe stumble along this road of recovery but I like how I feel.

Thank you again for all your support.....

I'm going to sneak in before your thread is closed S66 to say that I love your update (you sound fabulous!). As usual, I agree with your 'I have no regrets' feelings re your H and your many years together; and also re your empathy for his chaos. I'm so glad you're in a good place and feel great at the moment. I was just making myself a cup of tea at work and thinking exactly the same thing. The past month has been a real struggle, so it was really nice to think 'hmmm, I feel pretty good again today, it's all 'way over there' again, yay!'. See ya in your next thread! Xx
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M: 52 (48 @ BD)
H: 54 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 23 (19 @ BD)
D: 21 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 21 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 49) - he (supposedly) met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.
Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her (never happens).
May 22: Movement... (likely T&G? Time will tell I guess)

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#155: January 10, 2023, 02:08:30 AM
Schratz,

FaithWalker was nice about it but now.... The Bear is back from holiday....  ;D



You need a new thread please...
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Me - 59, xW - 51
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 15, D - 12
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#156: January 17, 2023, 08:41:57 AM
Thank you all for following and thank you Ursa and Faith for the reminder

Here is the link to my new thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12026
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Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

 

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