[beyondblessed]

Hey there, L&B....I'm not on here much anymore because I'm one of those who fairly early on had enough.  My BD hit the 6 year mark just a few days ago.  My D (he started it, but I finished it) was done within 6 months and decided I was done once I saw the words "irretrievably broken" on those D papers. 

You would have to go back and read my journey, but long story short, I never let much grass grow under my feet once this whole mess started.  I moved on, I made my life my own again, dropped the rope and burned the bridge.  6 years later and much living in between, I've moved to a new city, bought a new home with my fiancé,  and am getting married in April on a Carolina beach.

At this point, I'd have to really think back to those early days to remember the fallout, but I know I was  filled with a tremendous disbelief and unconscionable pain that my xh could so deeply betray me.  It really was like finding my way through my own fog trying to make sense of any of it....which I quickly stopped wasting my time on because nothing would ever explain or make sense of his choices and crazy making.  He lost his way and make choices that irretrievably broke our M.  End of OUR story, but the beginning of MY story.

From what I read thus far, you seem well on your way to detaching and dropping your own rope.  You realize this has absolutely nothing to do with you and nothing said or done on your part can change what he does now or has done prior.  The best you can do is live your life like he isn't coming back and use this time to cultivate and grow your best life.  Anything else will be a waste of time and of great disservice to yourself.

[xyzcf]

Good questions. Here are my answers based upon my experience and beliefs, others will give different responses. You are right though, you are not alone and somehow that is "soothing" when I read other's stories and nod my head in agreement,

Are there patterns of personality type and whether divorce happened or not that show reconciliation is more likely with certain types of MLCers?

 

Many of us searched for this, trying to see if some MLCers were more likely to return than others. I don't believe that there are any patterns, behaviors or personality types that are more likely to return.

One member from years ago was divorced, had her marriage annulled, both she and her spouse were in serious relationships and 7 years later, they married one another once again.

We really do not have any stats regarding how many MLC marriages are reconciled. There is no scientific way to measure this. Too many variables and it is impossible to follow up on all the people who have posted here. I know I looked for "signs" that maybe he would be one to get through his crisis and come back, reading stories of returns initially gave me hope but I have learned the stories really are so different that there is no predicting.

Are there those of you who once you worked on yourself enough decided you’d plain had enough?  After being called pathetic and told I should have more self respect than to want my marriage to work (by H) it makes me question my own feelings.  Why don’t I have more self respect?

MLC is not about me and not about our marriage. I firmly believe that and so "working on myself" had to do with learning to accept that I had no control or input into the ending of what was once a really good life. I did not have any major childhood traumas and we had many wonderful years together. So I get a bit concerned when we think that somehow we had to do "work" to become better. Life is an ongoing journey towards self-actualization (Maslow's term) and one is usually growing and expanding our knowledge and interests as we age. If we are working on ourselves, it most likely is dealing with the trauma of a divorce thrust upon us against our will and the destruction of our family.

You are not pathetic and it's not that you have no "respect" for yourself. People who say these things have no idea at all of the trauma that we go through. The world doesn't believe in the permanency of marriage and thinks that you need to get on with life and forget him...I always think, if he had suffered a stroke, a heart attack, cancer, a serious car accident, would I shut the door and walk away? I know who he was, what he is now is something that has a cause, childhood issues, biochemical, stress, fear of aging  and very much something that happened to him. If you have read stories from other MLCers who are willing to share, it's very clear that this is a very dark time in their lives...not something they purposely choose.

I guess I feel like when you make vows they mean something.  If we never reconcile or I end up giving up on that notion, I want to be able to walk away knowing I tried all I could and there wasn’t anything else I could do

Everyone on HS understands that vows mean something. In my case, doesn't matter if we reconcile.....he cannot change what I promised and it is very very clear to me and always has been.

There is a movie called "Fireproof". It is a Christian movie about a marriage in trouble. When I watched it many years ago I thought it was hookey.....but one thing stood out for me..."you never leave your partner behind in a fire".

This is my belief, was what I was brought up to believe, was what my faith tells me, what God tells me. I am a minority on HS and I think some find me annoying. However,  the growing that we do, if we listen to our inner voice, will lead us to what we must do to stay healthy and well.

For me, it made no difference when I had contact with him and when I didn't have contact with him. It is possible to detach and still have contact and that is how I live, 12 years later.

There is nothing I would change about showing him that he is loved. That is a grace that has been given to me, to be able to be at peace with this, even though it took many years to get here.

Each of us will find our way through. You are doing well and try not to be hurrying through the healing process. It is layers and layers of grief that we must process and will cause other losses as sell to come to the  surface.

[MomOfSteel]

I will try to not be in a hurry.  The pain is so debilitating I just want it to end.  It's interesting how it comes in waves.  After dealing with divorce garbage all day yesterday and having to do more today, I am so emotionally wrung out.  I know I have no choice but to go through the pain, but it is hitting hard.  Add dumpy sleep and anxiety on top and its awful.  Also, been experiencing chest pain and who knows if I'm literally having heart problems or its just the extreme anxiety.  Given my age and health, my doc thinks it just anxiety.

How do you not let the uncertainty eat you alive?   Also, hoping and praying that H will somehow come through this quicker while realizing it could be years if ever.  I feel a little defeated knowing that likely the minimum would be a couple years from now.  I guess the one thing that I can say is that he never does anything half heartedly.  Watching my kids suffer is the worst and not having real answers is really hard.   

Thank you for reassuring me that it isn't my own lack of self respect.  With all the gaslighting, I have to try really hard to figure out what reality is sometimes and also have to work on my own self worth and separating what I am actually responsible for and what has been put on me by someone else.  It really messes with your head.  Thank you all for your thoughtful kind replies.  I am reading and rereading your wise words. 

How do you determine if you MLCer is an actual narcissist or they have become one through their crisis? 

[xyzcf]

The day I signed the separation agreement and put it in the mail, later that night I developed chest pain although I though I was ok. After 45 min, I drove myself to the hospital (stupid thing to do, I know better) and they kept me there overnight because I responded to nitroglycerin. They ran a stress test the next day and I was fine...so anxiety /panic attacks can cause chest pain. It is however important to check it out.

How do you determine if you MLCer is an actual narcissist or they have become one through their crisis?

You can identify a narcissist as a young adult. It doesn't suddenly develop however MLC sure makes it feel like they are a narcissist.

Sometimes the LBSer starts to rewrite history so we may think about times and wonder if they were always this way.

I know for 100% fact that my husband was not a narcissist in the 35 years we were together. I have looked at all those years together trying to find a clue that there was a problem. Other than a regular marriage with it's ups and downs, there really was not anything to indicate this would happen.

How do you not let the uncertainty eat you alive?   

My faith has helped. Placing my trust in God and surrendering my will to His. Not always easy, have to pray about that a great deal...but when I do this, I can relax and let it go...but again, this took me several years to get to a place of peace.

When my anxiety levels were high, and nothing was working to calm myself down,  I had a prescription for Clonezapam which would cut the anxiety and turn the switch off so I could function more calmly again.

Things should be a bit easier once you get through all the divorce paperwork.

I cried every single day...sometimes for hours and I talked to 2 really good friend who listened and supported me without judging.

[Nas]

How do you determine if you MLCer is an actual narcissist or they have become one through their crisis?

Every person here is different, but I'll tell you my experience. I think some believe I've rewritten some of my marriage but in reality, my former H's actions forced me to undergo a very painful and deep process of fully examining myself, my childhood trauma, my relationships (not just to him but to everyone in my life - chosen relationships and familial) and my choices over my entire adult life. In doing so, I stopped looking at my former H as an pod person/MLCer who may or may not "wake up," but instead looked at myself as a woman with a past, present and future and asked myself what did I want for myself (since he was off living a new life). I took him out of the equation because he had already removed himself, and that was when I made the decision to move somewhere new.

What I determined, over a long time of deep, deep examination that was at times very painful and induced a lot of self-blame and self-criticism, is that I could never have seen any of the BD/after BD destruction coming, but in my heart, way, way deep down, I always ignored a nagging feeling that my former H leaned very, very heavily to one side of the narcissist spectrum.

I chose him - I did that - because there was a familiarity about the way he was and the way he treated me. I felt we connected on some deeper level, but really it was me recognizing in him some deep wounding that needed repairing. My "value" to him was similar to what my "value" was to my FOO - and some others I chose to be in my life - choices I made and own, but now know why they were made. (It's funny how deep FOO issues can go and infiltrate our lives if they're not addressed, because prior to my former H, I had other relationships, one in particular that was really supportive and healthy and yet it felt "wrong" to me because I didn't recognize support and healthy partnership and I rejected it as not being right for me.)

So for me, after much examination and asking myself hard questions and looking at hard truths, I had to recognize and admit that I willingly entered into and stayed in a marriage where I was not treated like I matter. And then comes the really difficult but very necessary part. I had to ask myself why. That's the key thing, it's about me and not about him.

That's (part of) my story - as our Acorn says, "a sample of one." You will have your own story, when you're ready. Often immediately after BD, we see our marriage through a lens of "It was the best that could ever be and nothing will compare to it." Then the filter wears away, after some time and self-reflection, and we see what was really there. Often it ends up being "We did have a good marriage, but I can see now that A, B or C issue was always there and just kept getting pushed under the rug..."  No person is perfect, no marriage is perfect. Even still, no one who  loves with good intentions deserves to be deceived and treated with contempt and disrespect.
You can want to leave a relationship for any number of reasons, but to do so with such destruction just shows a dangerously poor character - in some cases, that may be absolutely 100% undeniably the polar opposite of the spouse everyone knew, and in other cases, there may have been some hint (or many hints) that they could someday be capable of such behavior. Either way, the behavior is still happening and all we can do is protect ourselves as best we can, grieve (because it sucks, and it hurts, and it's really difficult) and move forward with our own lives. No matter what happens with him, you matter and you have a life of your own to live.

[KellBell]

Just remember that for all those years there were two of you in the marriage. Two of you who know how it really was. And now one of you is having a mental break down...trust your version of the relationship. No marriage is perfect. They take work, we fall into comfortable patterns and passion ebbs and flows as we navigate the busy-ness of families. You know your husband best and do you really think that if he had been that unhappy for so many years...he would have stayed? Love isn't a switch- he can't unlove you in a day, week or month. But he can resent you, blame you, be jealous of you and intimidated by you. All of those things are the results of his own issues and insecurities. And it's so much easier to blame us. And if he feels intimidated, jealous, angry or resentful towards you- then you can see why he thinks he doesn't love you. Again nothing you did...he just can't possibly blame himself for his inadequacies, depression and general unhappiness.

My H told me that it isn't fair that parenting is so natural to me. (jealous of my relationship with the kids) My H told me after BD that cooking steak soup and homemade sourdough bread made him fat. (his mom's recipe and major blaming). My H told me when he left that I was the strong and capable one. I always have been and that I'll be just fine. (resentment at me having my sh*t together while he was having his inner struggle and meltdown). Ironically these are all things my H used to love about me- my cooking, my parenting and how I mothered and my strength and tenacity. Insecurity is a major hurdle for anyone, but I feel especially for a man. They feel like they should run the house, be in control and head of the family. At some point they realize the one doing it all is really you...and that fuels their insecurities. If they can see it- can everyone see it? I know closer to BD my husband would try to negate compliments people would say about me to him. "Wow- your wife is an amazing photographer- did she take all these?" H-"yes, but I bought her this really great camera that basically takes the pictures for her."  "Kelly is such good cook- those cookies are wonderful!" H- "my mom's recipe." And not even just compliments about me, but our kids too. A co-worker said "hey your daughter is so great such a hard worker and so smart." To which he told D- "what else was he going to say, you're the bosses kid."

He wasn't always like that but as I look back I remember those comments popped up prior to BD when he was withdrawing (which at the time I thought was depression due to Covid and work issues). Those compliments were fueling his insecurity. I'm relaying this for a couple of reasons. But mostly to let you know that eventhough we feel like the rug was pulled out from us overnight...his issues have been brewing for awhile. And really many of this is rooted since childhood. His inability to communicate and deal with stress, insecurities and depression is what caused this. Not you. Or your relationship. But it comes down to marriage being between 2 people working together and right now there is only one trying to make it work. Sucky thing for him though because where ever you go- there you are. You can't run and hide from yourself or your own issues. Those sneeky things just follow you. So you are better off and the kids as well. They really need a healthy capable father that respects their mother regardless of if you are married or not. He needs to be an example to them and in this moment...he's not.

So keep your head up. Lots of self care and love on those kiddos.

[5hilmerton]

L&B,
apologies i need to hijack your post.

NAS, WOW!!
I really felt those words!  Thank you for sharing so much wisdom!  Thank you for sharing the honest work you have done within yourself. As i look deeper into myself, where i was and where i am, i still pull back.  I still bounce around blaming myself while understanding why and the decisions i have made/make.

Thank you,
5hil

[MomOfSteel]

I do need to look at why I chose the way I did.  It is something to think about.  At some point in the future I really don’t want to repeat past relationship mistakes. 

I feel like I am cycling like crazy with every thing he does.  Each request for documents or whatever else.  I know detaching is the answer but feels really hard to do. 

I’ve been reading studies on kids after divorce.  I’m heartbroken for the disadvantage H’s actions will have on my children as they are still so small.  I want to shout from the rooftops what a turd he is being while realizing it won’t do any good.  He’s got an avoidant personality and now I’m questioning whether he really has actually resented me all these years and just kept it bottled up.  I feel like I can’t trust anything anymore.  How do I learn to trust myself when that has led to such heartbreak and betrayal?  How do I ever trust another person to not do the same to me?   How do I trust ever again? 

I hate the OW.  I hate him at this moment too.  How I can simultaneously hate and love him I have no idea. 

[barbiedoll]

He’s got an avoidant personality

.

And there it is again. Although ( of course) I have no statistics, no scientific proof or evidence etc etc., I see this over and over again on HS and in my own personal research. My H also has an avoidant attachment style . I am anxious-pre-occupied in my attachment style which makes for anxiety, huge stress, cycling and profound pain when this happens.  I do talk about my experience with avoidant MLCer alot on my thread although I do believe you will see it as a common characteristic on many others. They key to calm your suffering is to work on calming, self-soothing and managing your own attachment style ...that I presumptuously assume is anxious-pre-occupied. That is a starting place for doing your own "work" and that alone is extremely painful and difficult. I am sorry that this happened ..I truly am.

[forthetrees]

The trust in yourself and in others takes a loooong time to reestablish. In regards to trusting myself, I got better about noticing red flags and accepting them for what they were. My approach when dating got to be, let this person reveal himself to be his authentic self to avoid having to go through another MLC blindsiding experience. This did not happen right away:(. As for trusting others, when I got better at acknowledging red flags, I was able to become more trusting of those who did not raise red flags. The trust is still not back to what it was pre-BD and I have come to accept that it may never reach that level again.