[PhoenixRising75]

Newbie, starting my own thread.
I’m relatively sure after reading posts, and lurking for awhile, that I have a clinging boomerang on my hands. I posted a question yesterday to dip my toes into this process of reaching out to others that have gone through this roller coaster ride.
H has just moved out to his own house as of Friday night. He is busy setting up house, while balancing clubbing out with his friends, so he hasn’t made a whole lot of progress getting his stuff out. A garbage bag with some clothes, and toiletries. Otherwise, all of his stuff is still here. I’d like to see much more of it gone, sooner, so I can deep clean everything, purge if you will. I can see now, though, he doesn’t have the drive to make this quick. I am reminding myself that at least he listened enough to take his, and these are my words after BD about moving out/separation, “homage to a pervert” off my wall.
The homage to a pervert is a guitar in a nice case I helped him shop for. It  belonged to his step dad who died 4 years ago. This was his 1st spiral crisis. He cried for months while staying up late getting hammered frequently. His stepfather was awful. A true piece of work with frequent flyer cheating on my H’s mom, and a history of peeping his own daughter and step daughter when they were young, living with him. Ewww. Both women are my age, and it damaged them both enough to talk about it at family gatherings like weddings and the lot.
I should never have allowed my H to put the stupid thing on display in our house. Originally I had to dust it weekly before the case was purchased and it graced our wall. I thought I was helping H work through his complicated feelings by allowing it. Dumb, I know. He never actually did any work, or releasing. I am glad he took it with him that first night. It seems like the only thing he has actually listened to me about since BD 2 weeks ago.

Otherwise it’s just projection land over here. He has to leave because I don’t love him, or he has to leave because I don’t love him the way he loves me, or he has to leave because I only want his money, not him. I understand these are his feelings and perceptions at the moment as to what has gone wrong in our marriage. I didn’t give him enough attention in the way he felt he needed attention. He HAD to seek outside validation because I wasn’t validating him enough. And there is truth there.
While I have always been kind, not critical with my language over the years, I didn’t praise him continuously the way someone with abandonment issues needs. I withdrew, and focused too much on trying to fix all of the things he said were wrong with me. I lost myself to the point I had not much to give back to him, trying to be what he said was normal and loving. I lived many years in our marriage believing I was not normal. I had to fix me to make him happy. Yeah, oops. Not healthy at all.
I was 23 when we met. I had only had 3 relationships, none of which were deep or truly loving. All ended with affairs by these men/boys. I had no idea what normal was, so when my H continued to tell me I needed to change, that I wasn’t normal, I believed him.
That bring us around to the title here. Finding myself again. Reflection and shadow work have been the norm for me this past year while my H lives in replay. I am finding my light again, or actually I am focusing it towards me, instead of the kids, instead of mutual friends, instead of H. Do they all still get my light? Of course! But I’m saving some for me now, too.
I’ll end it here now, with so much more to get out in the coming days and months as I work towards healing. I am forward thinking, and changes are already steaming away to better my financial situation as I pursue goals I tabled when I entered this relationship. I should be starting classes to finish my degree this summer. I would have started sooner, but the application to University from last fall gets me in next fall with the option to do summer. There was no option open to the program any sooner, unfortunately.
Next post we can get into my son’s cancer, the years I was stay at home to meet his medical needs, my return to work in a part time capacity, etc. All things that bother H. He hated becoming the bread winner, and recently brought it up as proof I was cheating on him. No such thing happened, but he perceives that it must have, because what else could I have been doing? I’ll leave it there. Lots to unpack. Thanks for listening.

[Songanddance]

While I have always been kind, not critical with my language over the years, I didn’t praise him continuously the way someone with abandonment issues needs. I withdrew, and focused too much on trying to fix all of the things he said were wrong with me.

And there is nothing wrong with that other than you were in fixer mode and you took the responsibility yourself suggesting that you have spent a lot of your life as a conflict avoider and people pleaser.  I was just the same - exactly the same in fact.

He has to leave because I don’t love him, or he has to leave because I don’t love him the way he loves me, or he has to leave because I only want his money, not him. I understand these are his feelings and perceptions at the moment as to what has gone wrong in our marriage.

NO they are not his feelings and perceptions as to what has gone wrong in our marriage - it is pure projection of his failings and not yours.

When MLCers project - they usually do it to deflect from facing their own feelings or their own truths.  Projection is often shame or guilt based and often have little to do with the truthful state of the marriage at BD time. 

Nothing has gone "wrong" in your marriage per se- you have an MLCer on your hands and this mean that he has destroyed what the marriage could have become if he had been calm, rational and both of you had worked on any of the relationship issues with honesty, trust and determination to keep working at it.

MLCers walk away very quickly and have the most bizarre reasons. And they hurt. This is not to say that there isn't any truth at all in what they say but it doesn't give them the right to destroy the person they are closest to and to walk away or rather run away from the marriage.

Your H certainly has FOO issues but in all honesty that is for him to work on and it never was your responsibility.  Sadly people pleasing fixers whose love language is acts of service will make it become their responsibility.

Next post we can get into my son’s cancer, the years I was stay at home to meet his medical needs, my return to work in a part time capacity, etc. All things that bother H.

   

Seriously?   Did you know it bothered him at the time?  Or is this post BD MLC projection.

Welcome to the forum by the way...... Lots of good advice on here and my main advice to you is to keep posting and to understand that we are all here to guide you - and whilst some of it you may not like or want to hear - it is there because you may actually need to hear it.

I've been 10 yrs into this crisis and all I can say is - step back, detach and focus on you and your needs.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am so sorry for the reason you are here but you will receive a lot of support and good advice.

He is busy setting up house, while balancing clubbing out with his friends, so he hasn’t made a whole lot of progress getting his stuff out.

Make sure you take care of finances. MLCers can go through money quickly and their mindset is that its their money and their fun and that is a priority. Reason goes out the door and you as the only adult in the room need to make sure your and your families needs are met.

He hated becoming the bread winner, and recently brought it up as proof I was cheating on him

Was this prior to bomb drop? The accusations of cheating? Are these recent events or just happened? Becoming the breadwinner is part of life-especially if you have a sick child. Sacrifices have to be made by all for the sake of your child. On the cheating accusations, if they are recent, it is just justification for his bad behavior. To deflect and make all of this your fault. If it has been throughout the relationship, this is very controlling behavior.

Keep posting and remember to focus on your well being, get the finances in order, and live your life.

(((Ready)))

[PhoenixRising75]

TY, SongandDance. I appreciate your insight.
No, I didn’t know that my years at home bothered my H until very recently when he started bringing it up as proof I only wanted him for his money, and that I must have been using the time to cheat on him. The money thing, he’s been saying for about a year, 2 months into testosterone injections on his part. 4 months past discovering his biological father had died a year and a half previously, and his sister hid it from him all that time. He found out about it through his mother, who was in full money seeking mode about a possible military pension she thought might be out there. It wasn’t. I helped him research it to guide his Mom, slow her roll. Boom, after processing that information for a few months, I suddenly only wanted him for his money.
The cheating aspect of my time at home with our son during recovery from a brain tumor surgery and then shunt surgery, in watch and wait, 4 MRI’s a year, sedation because he was so small……..hoping, praying for 5 years to pass a date where full recovery was finally a real possibility…..that cheating thing is new post BD, it was just said in the past week. Good grief, cheating was the furthest thing from my mind going through all of that. Cheating is something I have never done. When I am with someone, I am with them only, even through rough a** bs. Even when sh*t hits the fan, it just doesn’t enter my brain. I wanted my son to live. I needed for him to be ok. He was 4 1/2 years old when they found the tumor. He is 18 now, and graduated high school last May, Cum Laude. He’s amazing. And now he has to deal with this crap from his Dad. His BD from his Dad was last Friday, 1 week prior to move out. I checked in with him a couple days after the speech from his Dad, asked him what he thought, what he felt, what he noticed.
Son said, “he blames you. He wouldn’t let you talk. You we’re trying to reassure me you’d be ok, that counseling was coming for you as soon as we have insurance again, and he shut you up by dismissing your feelings right away. He doesn’t see you as a person. He doesn’t see me as a person. It is what it is. I am a person. It doesn’t matter that he can’t see that. I’m going to keep working on my dreams.” How the heck did my son end up so freaking wise? He’s hurting for sure, and I’ll make sure he gets his counseling, too. But geez is he awesome.
His Dad thanked him for his maturity that evening of the speech. He said he was older so he could handle it better. Um, k. Yup, dude. Your son is more mature than you. Those are facts.
You hit the nail on the head with fixer/people please, although those services are explicitly for the people I love. Direct family. My gentle keep the peace Dad, my narcissistic mother, my special needs younger brother, my kids, my husband. My bubble if you will. I was trained it was my job from the time I was 2 years old. Very hard to put that mantle down. It’s a day at a time, as I go through this. Introspection as to how I entered the Void (my husband’s eternal void) willingly, and stayed there for years, hiding myself, losing myself, yup, therapy here I come. I can see it plain as day in the mirror. It should never have been my job to keep my mother more stable, more pleasant by making her life easier. I didn’t do it for my Mom. I did it for my Dad because he asked me to. Please don’t show anger. It upsets her. Please don’t cry, it’ll set her off. I just realized this past year I’m angry with my Dad. He was always my hero, my rock, my go to, but he is culpable for this expectation that I keep things balanced, fixed, easier. I brought this crap into my marriage, and now I have to work at laying those burdens down. Long road. I’ll get there.
I’ll leave it there for now.

[PhoenixRising75]

TY Ready. I appreciate your response.
The accusations of cheating have been most of the relationship. Both he and his sister do it constantly. I’ve been trying to prove for over 20 years that I don’t cheat. It never sticks. The accusations that I must have been cheating because I was a stay at home Mom for 5 years, those are new, post BD. Or a new spin on an old song.
And although I don’t make what he makes, I have always controlled the finances. He never had interest. He spent, I kept us solvent, to the best of my abilities. Clean credit, the ability to purchase cars, a home, etc. that has all come from me. Every financial hardship, I have dug us out, put us back on track. I have levers to pull to keep our joint obligations met. And yes he has been spending like crazy. A rational mind would have saved up something to move out. He just raided the bank accounts to pay his deposit and now his 1st months rent. He’s buying furniture on the cheap from Salvation Army, but again hasn’t made much progress getting his stuff. He doesn’t have a washer/dryer yet, so he plans to come over to do his laundry. today. His deposit on his house was promised by him before our State tax return even hit the account. He took it for the deposit. I’ll be taking my half back when Federal rolls in. It has to come paper check this year, which is annoying, but actually helpful to me. Direct Deposit wasn’t an option, I guess because it was such a large amount due to solar on our roof. Yeah, that was me, too, to save money on electricity so he could afford his testosterone injections. Haha. His Fed is going to be reduced quite a lot to balance all the money he has been taking for his new pad. He already kind of knows this because he mentioned we’d have to deduct his furniture from it. Uh, yeah dude. Your furniture, your deposit, your rent. I digress.
I will be keeping OUR finance’s stable, the joint ones, while we slowly untangle them. He’s on his own for his new stuff, and we have a written agreement we created together because I demanded one shortly after BD, when I tried to explain to him we really could not afford this. He insists we can, and I am holding him to the weekly amount OUR finances receive from his paycheck or there will be lawyers. I haven’t threatened him with lawyers. He did threaten me with them if I make this too hard for him, or try to sneak off with his money. His money. Yes, that’s how he sees it. Classic MLC, but for now he’s willing to do a set amount that covers OUR expenses, or is supposed to. I have added a small gig through my work with the school district that will bring in extra for my son and I, plus I have a retroactive raise coming the end of this month, so things will be tight, but I’m handling it. And I have levers to pull to stay afloat while I pursue my dreams and increase my income.
That’s all I have for now. Thank you.

[WHY]

Him accusing you of an affair reeks of him having one, or wanting to have one.   The fact that it’s been going on for years would suggest there may have been a previous alienator. Not sure how you feel about this but for me, knowing upfront greatly affected my choice to stand or not.   

[xyzcf]

Welcome to Hero's Spouse.

There is a lot to digest, many opinions and not a lot of cold hard data.

RCR's articles are worth reading if you have not already done so. They can help navigate some of what you have experienced and will experience.

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

I think the most important thing to understand is that this is not about you and it is not a marriage problem although it destroys our marriage and families. There is something that the MLCer has avoided and needs to face, there are several theories as to the cause....but in reality, the cause doesn't particularly help you because their actions can be so scattered and bizarre...

Focus on you, your health and welfare and your family. This is a great place to vent and journal and we understand ...which the outside world doesn't always.

Take the advice that fits for you and remember that each marriage and family situation is different. As my therapist has said,  you can change your mind from one day to the next...decisions do not have to be absolute.

Welcoming you to the place that none of us would have wanted to be, but very glad to have a spot like this to figure out how to move forward.

[PhoenixRising75]

Yes, Why, the thought, of course, has crossed my mind many times throughout our marriage. I know he saw a lot of infidelity growing up, so he does seem to think it’s something everyone does. Whether it will effect my decisions in the future, I can’t say atm. He did admit to an EA because I asked him directly. Well, he said “maybe” I could tell there was a female because suddenly he was throwing a bunch of psycho-babble at me, words and phrases he has never used before. He accused me multiple times of hysterical bonding for example. Uh thanks lady that doesn’t know me for psychoanalyzing me. H said we weren’t having enough relations, and because I had worked hard over the last year to nip perimenopause symptoms in the bud, yes, I increased the amount of relations. My hormones have balanced out, and it’s all so much better for me again. Things were so bad for me 4.5-5 years ago, I became iron deficient and was barely functioning in the day to day. That was one of the first things I had to tackle under medical supervision. I received 2 opinions at the time, both  Dr.s said my hormones were wildly unbalanced. Replacement therapy wasn’t recommended until my anemia was well under control so I didn’t tackle that at the time. My health has been a focus this past year, and much was accomplished before H abruptly quit his job, and I had to cancel appointments. I’ve been able to continue HRT due to the fact that I had paid a year in advance, so I’m still able to see my Dr., have my bloodwork tested, and adjustments can be made if necessary. If all of that smacks of hysterical bonding, then lady I don’t know what to say. I was trying to work on my marriage and enjoy something again that had become more difficult due to health issues. Sue me.
I’ll leave it there.

[OldPilot]

Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[PhoenixRising75]

I’m having a good laugh at the absurdity! In a previous post I mentioned H somehow managed to listen to one thing I had said. I wanted to “homage to a pervert” (guitar from his passed on perv stepdad in a case) off my wall. When he moved out last Friday night, it is one of the few things he took with him. He doesn’t seem to be in much of a hurry to collect his stuff. He comes iver daily to “grab a few things”. Now for the absurd part.
After raiding my fridge for something to eat, he pointed out that the guitar was gone. I saw no point in bringing it up, and I guess maybe he wanted an atta-boy or something. He said he wasn’t sure WHY, but friend grabbed it off the wall that first night\move out day. Um WHAT? Your friend magically decided that item was super important and decided all on his own to grab it off the wall for you? Ha ha ha ha….mmmmmmkkkkkk
Anyways, he says he will come remove the screws and putty….and I’m holding my breath. He has never been a finisher with honey do projects. I have multiple half done things that have been sitting in that state for years.

[UrsaMajor]

Anyways, he says he will come remove the screws and putty….and I’m holding my breath. He has never been a finisher with honey do projects. I have multiple half done things that have been sitting in that state for years.

This kind of thing is NOT rocket science.... a screwdriver, a putty knife, and a small pail of hole-filler paste is all that is needed... Maybe something you wish to tackle yourself before he turns up again? "Oh that. It is already taken care of... "

[PhoenixRising75]

Hahahaha, Ursa. Yes, I am very aware I will be tackling this myself. I fix many things on my own, something H would complain about. I’d wait to see if he’d do it, usually sitting in very inconvenient situations while waiting, get sick of waiting, then just do it myself. His response would always be, “I told you I was going to do it. I just needed to find the time.” And……”well you obviously don’t need me. You need to control everything.”
Uh, dude, you son and I have used a broken shower head for months. Got tired of it, so I put a new one in. And, funny but true, the one I installed doesn’t leak when tilted to the side, unlike his install in our main bathroom. He used to much plumbers tape.
I am going to wait to fix the wall until he finishes moving his stuff out, which at the rate he is progressing is going to take months, but nobody is being inconvenienced by the wall, so I can afford to wait. Besides, I start coaching track next week, and I’m going back to school this summer to finish my credential. I have plenty of exciting experiences coming up, so ignoring the wall should be easy.

[PhoenixRising75]

H came by last night to pick up the old TV and a few other things. He helped himself to my champagne, which was fine. I’ve been cleaning up and reorganizing the past few days. That means I’ve been boxing some of his stuff and putting it in the closet. I wish he’d actually take all the stuff in his closet, so I can use it, but he isn’t there yet. It’s pushed to the side so I can hang my pants properly instead of folding them like I have been doing for a very long while to accommodate his mountain of stuff.
Anyways, my organizing chapped him a little bit. He said, “You’re already redecorating?”, and promptly checked his bedside sock drawer…..uh yeah, I moved the pile of junk from the top of the night stand and put it up on his shelf. I put my prettier, more feminine decorations there after wiping up all the dust bunnies he collected over there. I didn’t move his remaining hole filled  socks, or anything else from that drawer, though, it’s still intact, and he seemed relieved. Weird stuff their brain does. Left behind spouse should take care of left behind stuff. He isn’t going to make that space available for my stuff any time soon, I can see. Maybe those socks are guarding against another man’s socks moving in. The thought had crossed my mind. As if I’m in any kind of a headspace to want to deal with anyone’s socks but my own, atm? Too funny.
I did put him on notice that I will be decluttering the closets over Spring Break coming up. I told him I’ll let him pick through the removed stuff before I toss it. Maybe that’ll motivate him to get more stuff out, but I doubt it. His desire, and I guess it’s part of his replay, is to live in lack, the way he grew up. He has decorated his new place with retro 70’s style furniture according to my son, who went over there for awhile last night to help him set up the TV…..which wasn’t working because some dunderhead stored it upside down in my son’s room a year and a half ago. Ooops, dude, yeah you messed that up. Now he needs a different TV, and my son is supposed to help him take it off the game room wall on Tuesday. Oh, for the first time in a long time, he complimented my son, sorta.  “S figured it out in under 5 minutes….the Apple TV…..he is a God, he is me, but in 2023!”……. Our S has always been very tech, very advanced, and actually he far surpasses his Dad in that arena. He has for a very long time, his Dad just didn’t notice, or care to notice because it wasn’t athletic and soccer related. H is aware S has been runneing his own business since the pandemic with streaming, coding, maintaining servers, building computers from the ground up….yeah dude, your S does both hardware and software with next to no effort. It comes naturally, and his career choices will reflect that…..it just wasn’t what H was placing value on at the time…..and now I have a closet full of soccer shirts, coaching, reffing……all of that……and H doesn’t want to take it to his new house. He barely speaks to any of the soccer people we spent years with. I’m still speaking with them, and attending their important functions. I guess that’s why I get to house the LBSS……left behind soccer stuff…..
That’s temporary. He just doesn’t know it yet. As I gain more financial independence, his stuff will get boxed and/or tossed if he doesn’t do something with it. I enjoy purging. Always have. Closets and garage are on my radar for Spring Break in a few weeks….I won’t toss this go….just box and offer the boxes to him, but I want clean, I want organized, and I want space….I will not look like a hoarder of H’s past belongings….he has a garage, he Dan store the boxes unopened just fine. I told him I’d like to be able to put both cars in the garage…..it’s safer, and my S and I deserve to be safe…..so he should know it’s coming, although he probably already forgot I said that. He’s been forgetting a lot of things…..struggling to remember my phone number, on 2 occasions already….it’s been the same for years, and he never had trouble with it in the past. So weird what the tunnel does to their head.

[UrsaMajor]

We don't call it "Swiss-Cheese-Brain Syndrome" for no reason....

They can easily forget what they said/did an hour ago, let alone a day, a week... and do NOT ask them what happened a month ago... You'll be transported to the Twilight Zone by their answer.... Some even go so far as to tell you things happened to them that were things you told them actually happened to you...

As far as the "Already redecorating?" comment goes... no reply needed.... Of course, a simple "Yep." speaks volumes...

With respect to his junk, there are a couple of LBS's here that ended up holding on to the junk a LOT longer than needed. Once things are done and dusted, you can give him a deadline by which either he gets his junk or it goes to the curb. Boundaries, you know... and consequences for his choices/actions.... There is nothing that stipulated that you have to be the storehouse of his junk....

[MadLuv]

Purging is great!! I know once I finally started to go through things my XH things started popping up. For me it wasn’t holding on to things, but almost impossible to find everything of 30 years in a short time. Who thinks in distress!! Let’s go through every box in the attic!!! Yay!! Hehe. It is freeing to know things are finally all separated FOR SURE. You even get rid of all that stuff you never really needed. I think it’s a great way to lighten your mental and physical mode !!!

[PhoenixRising75]

An update on my journey. Things have shifted slightly between H and I. I spent 3 weeks in another state to help care for my father, who is end stage Alzheimer's. It was very difficult, but very rewarding. There was even a mending of my relationship with my mother, at least as far as it can get back to. The thing that surprised me was how interested my H became in my experience there, and how I was coping. He texted often, and was doing his best to be supportive.
Since being back home, H has been over more often. Almost all time spent together, he has initiated, although I have asked him over a couple times. We are still intimate, several times a week, now.  I’m doing my best to keep it light, and to not allow too many expectations to dance around in my head for too long. I have good days, and bad days where I just feel overwhelmed by everything, and I’m working through a lot of emotions. I’m talking to my therapist again, and it helps to get all the things out of my head, and just out there.
Replay mode for H seems to be slowing. He’s more focused on work. He still goes out, but it doesn’t seem to hold the same level of interest it did for him before. He has stopped guarding his phone when he does come over. He leaves it face up, unattended sometimes even, which he hadn’t done in the past 18 months. On a recent outing, a female I don’t know texted him, and because his phone was synced to the car, I had no option but to see it. I didn’t say anything. He immediately told me she lives in New York, and I have nothing to worry about. I’m not sure why he felt a need to tell me that. He isn’t discussing feeling much, except to make general statements (that honestly I’m having trouble knowing what to do with) like “I’ve been very lonely”. So far I’ve stayed quiet when he gives me these little insights. He is a runner, so of course I’m nervous that I could say the wrong thing, and watch him tunnel dive. Right now he seems to be re-exploring hero phase. He spent 10 years (that’s the length he labels it as) in this phase previously, out “trying to be a better man” . It’s not an easy phase to be married to, but it’s better than replay. And things are much different this time because I don’t have the time or energy to “hold down the fort”. I have my own stuff to attend to, work on, etc. I have just registered for fall semester and I’m finishing my degree. My son is pursuing his college courses, and his online career. And of course, the call could come any day that my father has passed or will imminently, and flights will need to be arranged on the fly.
If anyone reading this is wondering how or why I identify this phase as hero phase, it’s because that’s literally the kinds of things he says. He talks a lot about how he is helping other people see this or understand that. And just 2 days ago said “I told so and so you never give up the opportunity to be the hero”.  I’ve decided I will show gratitude for the things he’s doing. I didn’t think it was necessary in the past because hey, we can all take out the trash, right? I manage that pesky trash thing for months without expectation of a thank you, so I didn’t understand he WAS expecting a thank you, or your my hero  for his efforts, but there you have it. It certainly doesn’t cost me anything to just say thank you, and he definitely responds very well to it. I don’t know if this is going anywhere. Only time will tell.

[MadLuv]

Well, we were in a “trash” sync weren’t we? I also addressed this on Standing strongs page on how my XH needed those kudos for every little thing he did. I also used the trash as one. If he took it out and I said thanks he would need more than that. He would then say. Well I just wanted to help where I could. I would then say Thank you, I appreciate it. He then would fish for more acknowledgment. It was never ending. All the kudos in the world weren’t enough for taking out the trash. In my head I was screaming “ I took out the trash 5 times this week. Did you notice? i cooked, cleaned, wiped down the toilets, vacuumed, grocery shopped……hahahha….

[PhoenixRising75]

Reflecting on replay…….how long does it really last for a person that is so fundamentally traumatized by his childhood? If I’m honest, I think it has been 19 years for my H, and started with the birth of our son. Hindsight is definitely 20/20. Had I known that his insistence that he only drink the beer in a can (can, eww) that his abandoning father drank was the first slide into replay, maybe I would have seen the signs? He has long since abandoned the beer by so many years. He replaced it with other replays. Soccer was the last thing his father ever did with him before throwing him out at age 13. He didn’t get the same fancy gear his step brothers got, but he was allowed to play, and he was naturally good enough that the experience itself was remembered fondly. So replay the soccer experiences and take it to the extreme for 10 years. I suppose it makes sense. Now he is apathetic towards those 10 years, he says he wasted so much time. So partying and clubbing like his teen/early adult years, that’ll surely make him happy, right? Okay that’s not entirely working so let’s move out and recreate our childhood homes with retro furniture and themes from things his Dad enjoyed when my H was 5. Are we finally happy? Nope, lonely.
Now what? Need to feel better, need to feel better………bam, heroism, help others see the errors of their ways. Take the high road (his words) in everything done, and point out how great that is to everyone who will listen. I’m unsure yet how this will reveal that it, too, relates to his childhood traumas. I’m sure it will all be made clear in time.

[KayDee]

I'm more responding to what you wrote on Mimosa's thread - about your H being the soccer coach hero etc. If you haven't already worked it out, this is another form of projection -  he's perpetually rescuing his younger self. He cannot do it for himself, because he is 'not worthy'. This is his childhood trauma and why he says you don't love him etc. It's really more that he does not feel lovable. OK, so much for the psychology, but how does it help to know?  From what you write in your threads, it seems that you were a very supportive, loving, spouse. A rock and all the good things anyone would hope for in a relationship. But, until he finds a way to 'rescue' himself, do the fixing for himself, he will remain in this mode. I have no idea if this is a form of replay, it's probably more an MO for people who had neglect in their childhood. When it starts to morph into a way of escaping and/or avoiding, then I guess that is part of the MLC. Don't get people started on timelines though

[PhoenixRising75]

TY KayDee! Timelines are for sure out the window. 🤣 Each MLC’er will do their own unpredictable (but somewhat predictable) thing, for sure. In my particular case, I am pondering the possibility that this will be a life long state of being for my H. Midlife has really sharpened the focus/condensed his reactions to a chaotic level, but the more I look at it, replay for him is cyclical, long term, and if I’m honest with myself, something he will probably never heal. He really doesn’t have a need to. He is adamant he is going to die soon, so healing be damned.
Yes, part of my brain wants to look for signs that he is healing, or could in the future be open to healing. It is tempered with the other part of my brain that sees how comfortable he is, over the course of his life, replaying his traumas with no resolution. This part of my brain is questioning whether this is something I can handle, for how long, and do I even want to? 2 years, 3-5 years, 10 years, 30 years potentially of this to differing degrees and intensities , that’s a lot of my energy expended on this. Or not. I will need to choose at some point.

[KayDee]

Maybe you could take the pressure that is 'making a decision' off your shoulders for now. Sometimes, just the looming presence of A Decision can feel like a wretched burden. This situation, it has many moving parts - your parts are moving too  if I have learned one thing out of all this, it is to trust myself more. For me, if thinking about a certain action or decision was making me anxious, I concluded that it was not the right time for it (this about things I had control over, obviously. Not about things I needed to do for self-protection, like finances etc). I sense that you know you will be OK. If you can, trust that you will know when the time is right.  Removing The Decision Pressure will make you feel a lot calmer and focused about your next steps.

[MadLuv]

Do you have to choose? I think what you have to choose is you. Thats all. Mive forward. You dont have to leave the door ajar or close it. Just leave the doors off. Dont worry about if they are peaking thru or running from the door or slamming it shut. If they work through their issues and you are still available to try again the. You can and if your not, well then I guess that is a loss, but not one caused by you.

[Songanddance]

Reflecting on replay…….how long does it really last for a person that is so fundamentally traumatized by his childhood? I

Ok - let's clarify something.  Replay lasts as long as it lasts is the hard answer to hear.
However what you are also describing is the part of MLC that replay is a sub-set of:- Escape and Avoid.   Replay is usually the hard partying/OW/spending money like water/developing new expensive hobbies that don't last. Escape and Avoid is all of that but lasts a lot longer and can also last into reconnection until it is completely burned out of them.

I suspect that your H has been in escape and avoid for some time - it is always this that then escalates into replay and then usually after some years reverts back to escape and avoid.

Looking back at my H prior to BD he was clearly in escape and avoid for about 10 yrs before BD.  Amongst the many things he wanted to try was attempting a solo sail across the Atlantic.  He realised he couldn't do it alone so hired a small crew.  He bought a massive sea going yacht (with our daughter's university money on the promise that he would pay it back from his business; he did but only 5 yrs later)  and then he tried three times in 5 yrs - each was a failure ending up in the boat being so badly damaged in a storm. What did my H do - he flew home and paid for someone else to sort it all out. Yet again escaping and avoiding the truth of his actions and choosing not to be accountable. Then BD two years later the month after his mother died of Alzheimers (and he had frequently avoided going to the home to see her because he couldn't bear to see her that way; that ended up being my job) 

This is just an example of my H's MLC but escape and avoid also lasted during our reconnection and it's only last year after we separated that he has begun to realise what he has done and apologise repeatedly for every hurt that he caused me.  I'm now into 10 yrs after BD.  So, shockingly - it would seem that the time line of escape and avoid for my H lasted approx 15+ years.

My H also had FOO issues ; his dad died in front of him when he was 15, he lost an eye in an awful accident when he was 16, both his only grandparents died 6 months apart when he was also 16, he became an alcoholic when he was 18.  He sorted himself out a bit and then had a nervous breakdown when he was 22, married his first wife two years later - cheated on her twice etc....(then I met him after he had separated)
It never goes away but what MLC does is burn it out of them - in time.......
However it's not for you to wait - it's for you to move forward and observe from a distance. Detach so that you can see him for what he is - a broken person who needs to fix himself.

And for you to learn more about you than you ever thought possible and learn to love who you are and what you can be for you.

[Treasur]

What an interesting overview, Song.
I don’t think about it much now but, with hindsight, I think my h was always on a 2-3 year cycle looking for ‘something’. Me at first, then a new career, then buying a house, then getting married, then another different career, then moving to a rural house, renewing our vows, then another career change, another move, then another unsuccessful career change. All that changed was that I was part of the ‘solution’ not the ‘problem’….until I wasn’t. The change from one cycle to the other was usually marked by about 6-9 months of depression (that he would never seek help for) until the next cycle started. Presumably that cycle then went to ow, divorce, wedding, new house, maybe another career change….and the same depression dip about 2-3 years after..to be fair though I have no idea how or where he even lives now…but it seems sensible to assume that would be the case in the absence of info. I wonder if what makes MLC an even bigger thing than that kind of cycle is bc they really do take a flamethrower to the old in search of the new, so probably leave themselves hanging in mid air with a lot of damage rather if that doesn’t deliver. As that process wasn’t caused by me, or anything about me really, it seems rational to assume that my xh will have continued that cycling pattern just in a different place and with different players.

It’s a relentless hunt for an external fix really, isn’t it? I have no idea really what, if anything, causes someone to break that pattern. Maybe you just need to run out of energy or potential external fixes……. Ha ha, maybe there IS some magic fix they find, idk  I do know though that, even in my worst days, I knew any fixes lay in me not outwith and were likely built in small steps not magic leaps. Although I wished there was a magic leap out of the pain and confusion! But I can see how that hunting cycle of magic fixes, one after the other, could easily last someone 10/15 years on a 2-3 year rotation. Or a lifetime.

What I find more interesting maybe is the shift in my own perspective on it. How what I saw as the normal warp and weft and compromise of a married partnership I now see as more of a fatal flaw. I had no experience before BD of this kind of dysfunctional destructive behaviour up close, so I suspect I was rather naive about just how damaged my then h was by his FOO stuff. And of course I never imagined he would turn that destructive impulse on me, until he did.

I think life is safer and even easier without these kind of damaged folks in the centre of it sadly, much as I loved my then h. If my xh had ever returned, he would have had to love me more tbh bc after the horrors of BD I loved him less and no longer believed in the real value of his love as I once had. His actions broke something fundamental in me.  I take my hat off to any couple who manage to rebuild anything good on that kind of foundation bc that seems unlikely and remarkable to me now.

[MadLuv]

I also had a husband that constantly needed that next “fix or change” to fill something in him or to give him “hope”. Same, move, new location , house, promotions, etc etc etc….. I always knew it. I always understood it. I saw the flaws. I saw the insecurity. I think when he finally took a job that required travel was the change. More power. More people “women” giving him attention.

I also view things and our relationship differently now. I agree with my XH. I did carry the load. He did hide behind me, until he began to get attention from others and the didn’t need me and decided he resented me and saw me probably as controlling him and emasculating him. So far from the truth, but I can see how his damaged mind has allowed himself to to believe it and see it that way now.  All that really does help to step out of it and realize alot. Not only have we most likely did more than our fair share in the relationship, but that we can move forward with that knowledge.

[PhoenixRising75]

TY all for sharing. It’s oddly comforting to hear your stories about the cycles you witnessed, too. My younger, naive self 25 years ago was incredibly optimistic that love could conquer all. 23 is such a great age, jumping out into the world with our hearts wide open. And here I am returning to university to finish the things I put to the side (it was only ever supposed to be a short duration this was on the shelf), while I was doing everything I practically could to give our love a chance at the best possible outcome. Taking a step back from school to work more hours to save up for, and afford the rent on a little house together, then changing the type of work and the hours I worked to better suit his needs, and his vision of who I should be. And pouring everything I had into our son when the cancer diagnosis came, shattered, but using sheer force of will to get his little body through it all. Waiting for the 5 year remission all clear, so that I could return to work and not feel like it would all crash down again. Part time, but at least back to where my heart was tugging me in a support role for my originally intended career. S19 is dabbling in community college, exploring his career options, and I’m full circle back to University in 2 weeks. I’m going to be doing homework while my son is doing his. It’s bizarre, but very cool.

[Treasur]

It IS very cool, Phoenix, and rather inspirational too!

[thissucks7788]

That is inspirational Phoenix.  Best wishes for going back to university in a few weeks.  A strange and twisting journey for the LBS's as well.
B

[FrenchHusband]

Hi Phoenix,

I have read your whole thread and I find your words very inspiring, very often you made me laughing. You have a big and nice tool to overcome your husband's MLC : a refined sense of humour. I buy what you write about your H's socks, or the Left Behind Soccer Stuff, or the trash hero. I am sorry and thankful to you : I found so much joy reading all these moments.

I sincerely wish that your humour will make you rise again higher than ever !

[PhoenixRising75]

TY, FH!
I appreciate the kind words. I am grateful for your kindness. Humor is definitely a coping mechanism for me. When I have a truly $h!tee day where everything goes haywire, you know those days where the car battery is dead, you sort it, then the internet goes down at work, you sort it, then that lady jumps ahead of you in line at the supermarket and nearly knocks you over trying to get there first…..yeah, those days. I take a deep breath, remind myself how ridiculous it all is, thank the universe for that ridiculousness, enjoy the part where I am part of the cosmic joke, and laugh my a** off. Sometimes I laugh so hard, I cry. There’s humor all around us on the regular if you allow yourself to just stand still for a moment and take it in.

[PhoenixRising75]

Ok. Jury Duty Extension request complete. I chose Halloween, because, why not? For anyone following the cosmic joke, the site I just dealt with…….whooooo Nelly. You can’t just type your bday. You MUST use their archaic calendar pop up. And scroll backwards through time……until you reach the only conclusion you can when your finger is all tapped out, geez I’m old. Oh, and don’t you dare tap slightly off kilter. The calendar closes, and you enjoy it all over again. Took me 6 tries. Now that’s funny. 
Quick journal on the cosmic joke, how it always comes in 3’s, it being the 1st of the month and, a Super Moon. That bit about the Jury Duty? Last part of the joke. The 1st 2 were H contacting me bright and early today. Ooops, he forgot about his autopay on his rent, and it probably bounced. A few hours later, ooops, autopay for his gas bill went through today, too. 6 mos in to him “taking control” of (well 5 total) finances, and he was $1.08 short after I allowed him transfer to cover his rent oopsie. THERE’S a reason why I was in charge of the finances for our entire relationship, dude. You suck at it. The resentment he built towards me for “controlling the finances”……..good grief. I never stopped him from spending his money, never told him no, I just adjusted elsewhere to keep everything afloat. Now he is continually in his own way. And that’s with 5 things to cover, not the 30 I manage, still, now. I can’t see his account. He deposits money to maintain the joint, and I adjust for my son and I. I make sure his old bills are still paid. He thought it was easy. I guess I made it look easy? 5 bills dude. Just 5. Get a grip. And my rant is over. Laugh with me. It’s absurd. 🤣

[MadLuv]

I am pretty sure I have a thread saying pretty much the same thing on finances. Its not controlling. Everything is budgeted. That is grown up stuff not controlling stuff!