[geist]

Hi, first post and, of course, my (M38) partner (F40) of 15 years and recently celebrating our 10 year wedding anniversary has completely changed over the last 4 months. I'll explain in bullet points in more-or-less chronological order with as little spin as I can possibly do, though by necessity this is from my perspective. Apologies for the walls of text. We married October 2013, bomb drop of "I love you, but..." was December 2023.

Context:

* She had COVID in September. She rebounded after paxlovid, and was ended up being sick for about three and a half weeks. During this I learned to make her tea the way she likes, brought her food, made her soup, texted with her (assuming she was sleeping most of the time), and brought her as many creature comforts as I could. It was rough, but I slept on an air mattress while she convalesced and I checked in as much as I could.

* She has other health concerns that we've lived with throughout our relationship (POTS and Endometriosis), and after recovering from COVID, her heart rate would skyrocket at the drop of a hat, and her orthostatic blood pressure got even worse whenever she'd bend over. This was common already, but it became severe enough that she went to a doctor. I drove her to her appointment, where she had an ECG that freaked the doctor out enough that he sent us to the ER for some tests — fearing she may have an enlarged heart. I admit I didn't take it too seriously because I felt (armchair doctoring) it was probably just an effect of long COVID.

* We went to the ER. I've never had great bedside manner and default to gallows humor to vent the stress. We got admitted into the ER, and were quickly pulled out of the room we'd gotten to make space for a heart attack victim. Woman may have survived, but fewer than six feet away from us a literal medical drama played out while we were in the hallway. This threw me off, even though I had told myself to be on my best behavior for my spouse. I sort of disassociated for the rest of the time there, but I tried to take care of her. She had a lot of tests done, and we went home finally.

* She followed up with getting an appointment with a cardiologist who gave her a heart monitor to track her spikes. She would get mad at me and pull away whenever I offered to help her figure out how to track the spikes. I didn't think too much of it at the time.

* We had our anniversary (late October) and her birthday (early November) back to back, which was both our 10th and her 40th. I went all out as much as I could, getting her a new iPad, headphones, and a new iPhone. She was on new medication that made her tired, and I thought she was still having long COVID. So she didn't want to go out, she didn't want to drink, and she was "off" at this point.

* She then had a stress test — I had no idea what they were. I offered to drive her there, but she declined. When she got home, I asked her how it went and all I got was "it firetrucking sucked." It felt like she didn't want to talk about it, and I was still working (we both work from home.) So I decided to give her space and nodded, getting back to work.

* About a week later, she was going to to on-site for a day with cupcakes she was making from scratch. She asked me to get some ingredients for her and I obliged. (This is important for later.)

* Extra info: She's clearly depressed, was self-harming without me knowing about it. She didn't want to return to office, but now sounds like she wants to use it as a reason to move out. She had stacking health conditions, and just turned 40.

The actual marital conflict, where the MLC may be?:

* The next morning, we walked the our dog who I'll call Nugget, and once we made it inside, she gave me an awkward side-hug. I asked what was going on and she broke down crying saying she didn't feel supported during hear health concerns, and that she wasn't even sure we wanted the same things anymore.

* She said that me not showing concern or interest in the stress test caused the "bottom to fall out" and she lost her love for me.

* Throughout all of this, she'd been talking to a coworker who also has health concerns, and was working with her to get full remote status (tech companies are doing recall to office, as the techies among us may know). I was a little concerned he was offering her glimpses into his HR and legal forms, but didn't think too much of it. She would also go on long walks at random times, saying she just wanted the space and to talk to her friend in another state.

* For the next six weeks, I slept on the air mattress and we would talk some about every other day about her concerns with our relationship. She would make comments like "I didn't want this." and "Maybe I'm going through a midlife crisis." while eventually working her way up to crying and having visible panic attacks when we'd talk.

* The week before Christmas, she had a mandatory on-site week at work, and had actively been pulling away more and more. Despite having what I thought were several "good" conversations, she'd notably be even colder the next morning. I was confused. She started saying "I just need space." and I'd intended to give her that. Then, two days before she would go out of town, she drops the bomb: "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

* I started to get suspicious, and asking probing questions at this point. I knew something was wrong that wasn't me — so after she left for the week, I had a billing error on the cell phone. So I just happened to look at the call logs. She was calling a local number on her walks. Not the out of state friend. So I asked her obliquely what she was doing on her walks, where she lied and said it was her friend. It was the coworker. I knew she was lying, so I asked her why she lied — and I got a pithy "I didn't know how to tell you he's helping me."

* She had never wiped her old phone, and after a few days of rumination, I checked it. She joined a private discord with this guy the day after the ER visit, and after a bit of $h!te-talking me, she engaged in an emotional affair with him. He is married also, to my knowledge. And as far as I know, she had plenty of chances to make the affair physical while she was away for the week. On this discord, she made special note about how the cupcakes she sent me out ingredient hunting were "just for him!" I helped make cupcakes for the guy my spouse was cheating on me with. (Told you it was relevant.)

* We called a few times during the offsite week, and I'd finally had enough of the lies and told her I knew. She wilted, and pleaded with me not to tell her work. As of yet, I have not reported it. And she offered finally to go to marriage counseling with me. This did not happen because that night she remote-erased her phone, and vanished. She would only tell me through text that she was "safe" and that she wouldn't talk to me while there was "so much anger."

* I tried to figure out where she was, because I didn't know if the coworker was blackmailing her, and all things besides — my best friend of 15 years was behaving erratically and was cheating on me — so I called her friend (who didn't answer), and then texted her parents. I came to learn she fled the state. This was just before Christmas. She proceeded to tell me the affair was my fault due to "years of hurt" and that all of her good feelings were gone.

* I spent Christmas with a friend's famly. I cried a lot. She proceeded to ghost me for weeks. She finally texted me saying she hasn't been her "best self" and that I "deserved better." We finally had a phone call, but she still wants to move out, and says she doesn't "feel that way" about me anymore.

* She's been with her parents (or so I'm told) ever since. So, about 8 weeks. We're in essentially no contact now, and I have no reason to believe she's cut off the affair — which was primarily on Discord anyway. I've spent Christmas, New Years, my birthday, and am on track to spend Valentines day alone and in effective limbo.

* I've been trying to give her space, because what I've learned about what may be a mid-life crisis, or avoidant attachment styles — this is what I'm supposed to do if I want to have any hope of reconciling. Before you ask, yes, I still love her. We've never really had a fight before this year. We were going to buy a house, but it felt like she kept moving the goal posts or refused to compromise. I pushed for a new house, and, well, we bristled at each other a bit. But I tried to make up with her for it and even commented "if we've been together this long, we must be doing alright to have only one real fight like this, right?" — Famous last words, I know.

* Without going into a terrible number of specifics, I know we haven't been perfect. I know I haven't been perfect. But I was (falsely) under the impression we were doing okay, and were even on the upswing in terms of the depth of our relationship. She'd thrown out the term "walk away wife syndrome," but the timeline matches up mostly to the beginning of the affair. Throughout all of this, I did what I could to make changes, make sure she felt heard, and grow as a husband.

* In 15 years of knowing her, this is completely out of character for her. Throughout our time together I've always asked her (when things were good) to tell me if there's anything I could be doing better, or what-have-you. I had thought I'd done well to avoid being blindsided by something like this, but I clearly failed — or it was out of my hands.

* Notably, she only says more "aggressive" statements when she's panicking. "Separate" is the strongest word she's said, never the D-word yet.
Hopefully I've given enough information. I've been going to therapy and started antidepressants because of all this. I do not know what to do, because I'm stuck in limbo as she hasn't really moved out yet (all her stuff is still here), nor has she filed for divorce. But her words are cold and distant when I do get any kind of text. She has said space is how she heals, but this is a lot to deal with.

What — or can — I do? My self-esteem is at an all time low, and I feel fairly psychologically abused and abandoned through all of this. I have had a consult with a lawyer, but I'm not pursuing it. If we get divorced, we're in a no-fault, 50/50 split state. I don't want this, and have no real idea of how long she's been struggling with what I'm thinking is an MLC.

And again, I do still love her, but I also have a lot of strong emotions around all of this. I'm trying to be a point of stability for her, but this seems to be happening so fast and yet so weirdly all at once. I've watched Kenda-ruth's video series and tune in to the YouTube channel whenever I see a good video pop up.

TL;DR — Wife got COVID, health complications followed. She said I didn't support her during the health concerns, then slowly started expanding from there to essentially saying I was an awful spouse for years and the wants to leave me while having hidden an affair from me.


From what I can tell, this is escape and avoid behavior. I don't think she's being much of a clinger or a boomerang, but I'm only so familar with the terms. Was getting COVID the instigator? Was it the opportunity to have an affair? Is it just a slow boil?

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi geist,

So sorry you are in this club nobody wants to member of.

Is this MLC? Basically there is no way to tell for sure. At six year mark I feel what matters more is that you can put a tag on it - it helps you to process and move on with it. Some call it MLC, some call it walkaway wife syndrome, for some it is rough patch, some call it plain and simple cheating. What's common with them all is your partner feels she no mores love you, she has had an affair, and relationship between you two is in deep trouble.

Is it about you... Loving another person is a personal choice. The same way you cannot force another person to fall in love with you, the same way you cannot force them to fall out. It is a personal choice, and she is the one that needs to work it through her part the same way as you need to deal your part.

What drove her into it.....I think everyone who goes through abandonment would like to know a cause. Sadly there is no way to tell what triggered it. Most likely she does not know true reason neither - and you might hear multiple (even conflicting) reasons from her over time. You can spend an eternity chasing the options, but please do acknowledge that intternal peace becomes only when you drop the rope and accept "so happened, what's life got next".

What you can and should do first is slow down. A LOT.  The first 6-12 months is pure emotional rollercoaster as you are trying to understand which way is up or down. Just like in plane crashing down, your first task is to put your personal mask on. Only that way you can help you, and later your partner. How are you doing physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually (PIES)? Are you getting some support from friends, family or healthcare professionals?

Regardless how you might feel now, a lot of the actions and drama are nothing more than emotional knee-jerk reactions. As long as you let your emotions be on drivers seat, it is not like watching a trainwreck, but also feels as such...  What you can do is put the eyeballs on yourself instead of her. Focus on healing, focus on things you control. Anything else is basically feeding ground for emotional rollercoaster.

So sorry your life was turned upside down. Hugs....This is great place for support and knowledge. I know some of the advice I gave was direct and even blunt, but sugarcoating does not make things better. Your life will eventually get better, but it will take time and it will require you to work for it.

Alvin.

[superfly]

I'm so sorry, one thing you may have heard, they can be financially irresponsible so be sure to maybe move half of your funds and/or ask the attorney what you need to do to make sure you don't become responsible for her new debt. Glad you found us, you're not alone. None of us deserve this s%$#, we are all heartbroken over our spouses/partners mental health issues that have destroyed our families for no good reason. It's so unexplainable, so devastating. I'm sorry, definitely protect your finances. They are not acting rationally!! 

[Baxter1]

An expert I’m not but I got ‘need space’,’’ILYB speech’, she’s been more aggressive (I see monster occasionally)and completely different from who she was. Sorry you’re here, but there are good people who been (and some who still are) in your shoes.

[Treasur]

I've been going to therapy and started antidepressants because of all this. I do not know what to do, because I'm stuck in limbo as she hasn't really moved out yet (all her stuff is still here), nor has she filed for divorce. But her words are cold and distant when I do get any kind of text. She has said space is how she heals, but this is a lot to deal with.

What — or can — I do? My self-esteem is at an all time low, and I feel fairly psychologically abused and abandoned through all of this. I have had a consult with a lawyer, but I'm not pursuing it. If we get divorced, we're in a no-fault, 50/50 split state. I don't want this, and have no real idea of how long she's been struggling with what I'm thinking is an MLC.

First of all, I am really sorry that you need to find yourself here.

I would agree with the others about focusing on protecting your finances in the short term and focusing on your own self care. It sounds as if you are already doing some smart things about that, and that’s hard in itself so well done. Whatever it is that is going on, it’s more like a marathon than a sprint and self care is part of how you find the battery level to navigate it.

It sounds as if (understandably) you feel in limbo. It won’t feel like that but for a little while, that limbo can also be your friend. Bc it gives you time to get up off your knees a bit and create a bit of mental stable ground before/if you need to make other big life choices in what comes next for you. That kind of time truthfully can be a strange unwelcome friend, but still a friend if you use the time wisely. Breathe a bit. Let yourself feel how you feel without the pressure to DO anything much with the feelings.

I don’t know if it MLC, nor do you, too early to tell. If it is, the WTF stuff will pile up in her life whether you are involved or not. The truth of these things does tend to come out over time whether we hunt for it or not. And that will bring its own questions about what you should do or not do, what is possible and what is beyond your control.

Until then, I’d encourage you to focus on the bare facts of the behaviour, as opposed to the causes of it, if that makes sense? It sounds as if there is/was an affair, your wife has left and is not telling you much and looks like she is given to avoidance? You would be wise at this point, MLC or not, to operate on the starting assumption that your wife will lie and that you should not believe much of what she says unless it is independently verifiable. Sorry, bc that is a WTF thing too isn’t it? But it seems to be how it goes.  By all means hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

And the same is true for any of the blame she tries to unload on you - take it at face value that she might believe it, but do not take it as THE truth. Just her current version of it, a version usually that helps her either get what she wants in the moment or avoid dealing with something she doesn’t want to deal with. And from what you describe, that sounds as if it includes your feelings, needs and wants, sorry. There is nothing fair or reasonable about that and you do not deserve it, but that is how it seems to be.

You will doubtless find, bc most of us here do, that this has very little to do with who you are or your marriage; it has a great deal more to do with who your wife is and her way of coping when her life gets a bit hard or not shiny enough. Understandable that your self esteem takes a hit, but truthfully you are pretty much the same guy you were before, a normal imperfect human. It’s very unlikely - unless you are about to confess to a litany of horrors now lol - that you have done anything as a man, a husband or a human that warrants being betrayed and essentially ghosted out of your own marriage.

Given that, you will probably find it more helpful to your own well-being to not initiate contact and to be thoughtful in responding to any contact she makes. That’s painful, and pretty weird feeling, but it’s how we avoid getting swung around on someone else’s rollercoaster. You need a bit of breathing space to look after your own ducks bc we here all understand that this is a traumatic thing, like being run over by a truck.

What do you see as your priorities right now? Both practical and emotional ones? How can we best support you through this life hurricane?

[geist]

Thank you all for the extraordinarily kind responses. I didn't expect to wake up to multiple responses.

As it stands, I don't want to stay in my current apartment longer than is needed — it's too expensive (Bay Area) and it feels a lot like a tomb. Waking up in the morning is when I remember she's not there and it leaves a pit in my stomach each time. So I've packed up the stuff I know is mine, with the essentials still left out for now. I may end up moving across the country to Missouri to stay with my parents for a while.

Financially, we thankfully only have one shared account. I've stopped depositing to it but have also not withdrawn anything from it, either — we have a financial advisor who handles the resources there and I don't want to make matters worse by suddenly moving around a lot of cash that she might be alarmed by.

I think you're all right — I've been wallowing in her truth, rather than mine. Her story has changed consistently each time she's talked about the whys of her behavior, so she's grasping at straws to justify her behavior. We travel in the same professional circles, so as this continues the truth will come out — she cheated on me. We have the same friends and she's often been the moral compass in the network, so this is all so strange and new still.

I struggle with whether I should report the affair or not — I'm sort of friends with her boss, if fairly distantly. I even interviewed with him multiple times to join their team but they wouldn't hire me because (get this) they don't want to have people in relationships working together. I know that reporting it would not help me at all and would only push her away further though. It's a moral quandary.

I am focusing on myself. I'm going to the gym every day(ish) and making time to sit in the sauna there while trying to clear my mind. Deep down I'm still hoping for reconciliation. I don't know how spiritual people are on this forum, but I've tried to lean into what the Universe is telling me versus what my fears are saying. It's likely delusional, but it helps me manage my stress levels. That and the antidepressants.

Essentially, until she actually moves out, I'm trapped in limbo. She may have purchased more clothing at her parents' house, or whatever essentials she needs to do her work from home, but literally everything else is here still. One of the few solaces I have is that her emotional affair is by necessity a long-distance one currently as well. Deep down I'm still hoping she comes to her senses, but as you all have pointed out — I'm trying to spend as much time as I can focusing on myself. (Gym, medication, therapy though I'm between therapists atm, and starting a better diet... today.)

I deeply appreciate all the support. As for whether she's having an MLC or not — I know she's suffering through a lot of guilt, but she's also an expert at suppressing her emotions. She herself even remarked she might be having a crisis once, but I didn't press her on it. I do know that reconciliation will likely require her to leave her current job one way or the other, but that's not where we're at currently.

I'm sure this will ring familiar to anyone who's here — this is the hardest thing I've ever gone through, bar none. So, again, thank you all for the kind words.

[mcm64d]

Hello geist,

I am six months in on Monday and there are a lot of similarities in our situations. Me and my stbxw were together 15 years and was about to celebrate our 11th wedding anniversary. She is around your age- 37.

I too have recently "celebrated" my birthday, and Christmas solo. (i had thanksgiving too, my actual favorite of the holidays). Thanking goodness neither of us cared about Valentine's Day, but I do feel for you.

I too hope for reconciliation and go back-and-forth on the whole what happened/ is it MLC carousel. I have highs and lows- Thursday night was a bad low, today a high. Generally my lows have gotten higher and my high are getting more consistent. Yours will too over time.

I am almost divorced. Her choice. The house sold almost a month ago.

My advice....and please take with a grain or more (maybe 1,000:) ) of salt since I am too new and still in too much shock....

* Yes protect yourself and finances above all else.
* My suggestion is not to make too many life-changing decisions too quickly. I would hate for your to come to regret decisions you made within the next month or two.
* Also, and I did say this to my stbxw while she was still approachable, while in a depression it is not the most advantageous time to make major decisions.
* If I had it all to do over again (why the hell would I want to- but you know what I mean), I would not have responded to some of her texts/ calls. I know how difficult it is to let go suddenly to someone who has been your main focus for the last 15 years, so I can certainly understand this difficulty. But I would have decreased my overall pain had I learned to stop sooner.

I have no family left of my own and our shared friends have basically disappeared. I know the solitude you are feeling.I know how tremendously difficult and unfair this is. I have been pretty successful in trying to enjoy my alone time without becoming lonely.

You and I are on opposite coasts of the US but please know that you are not alone in all of this.

You have reached out to a tremendous community of caring, empathetic, intelligent, and lovely human beings who know exactly what you are feeling at this very moment.

There are always choices in life....even when they don't seem apparent at the moment. You can hold out hope for reconciliation as long as you wish. You can change your mind about it at any moment you'd like. And you can change it again the next moment. You are allowed that. You are allowed to go dark or call her constantly. And you can change your mind about that as well.

There are few things in life we can control and of course right now our spouses are not one of them. But please try to remember to leverage whatever is within your control and use it to best serve YOU.

All the best and please keep posting.

[geist]

Thank you, mcm64d.

I don't know what the next few months will unveil. Limbo is going on for nearly 2 months now, and I feel like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Thankfully, the few friends I've told about what's going on are generally caring and "on my side" — but I've asked them not to speak to my spouse about the issues because of the evident self-harm and not wanting to exacerbate things.

To my knowledge, no legal proceedings have been filed yet — and I don't want to be the person who does it. I aim to be the lighthouse, but given that the alienator is a coworker, he clearly has way more access to her (and is also a former lawyer, apparently.) — if the tables were turned, I feel she would have reported the affair. But I'm just not willing to burn that bridge, it's infuriating to have only two options — wait and see and try to be a lighthouse, or go nuclear. There's no in-between at this time.

Such as it is, I guess. If waiting is the only play I realistically can have at the moment, that's all I can do.

I really appreciate your insight on things... and I'm so sorry that it's gone that way for you. I would say I hope things turn around for you, but six months out is just unimaginable — then again, I'm sort of at three months myself. Thankfully there's no house to sell, nor kids to worry about. Just the finances.

Thankfully, I have a fair amount of money set aside that cannot be touched by her, and vice-versa. I do keep an eye on the joint account daily, which is mostly stocks and money market values. I'm not sure what protecting myself looks like in this case, but I should talk to the financial advisors and perhaps get a lawyer on retainer. It is considered "community property" regardless of all things in CA law, unfortunately. Woof.

I was really hoping someone would tell me there's a light at the end of the tunnel — but I also realize that all of the YouTube channel's videos explicitly say there's no guarantee of reconciliation, so I'm measuring my expectations heavily.

[KayDee]

Hello Geist,

Sorry you here - none of us expected this and we all know how crushing it is. Devastating, in fact. You are currently in the fastest, most turbulent part of the maelstrom and your thoughts are probably going at the speed of light.

Clearly your W is having a crisis of some sort. Because, well, who does that? As you list, she had a lot happen to her pre BD. A kind of existential smack around the head, with everything that happened with her health. Maybe she is someone who hasn't been tested in this way before. We don't know how good our coping mechanisms are, until they are really tested. Hers seem to be to runaway. This is a common theme on the forum - avoidant people run. This is her issue to resolve and it won't happen over night alas.  And, as others have said, it doesn't change the affect on you.

I don't know what the next few months will unveil. Limbo is going on for nearly 2 months now, and I feel like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Thankfully, the few friends I've told about what's going on are generally caring and "on my side" — but I've asked them not to speak to my spouse about the issues because of the evident self-harm and not wanting to exacerbate things.

To my knowledge, no legal proceedings have been filed yet — and I don't want to be the person who does it. I aim to be the lighthouse, but given that the alienator is a coworker, he clearly has way more access to her (and is also a former lawyer, apparently.) — if the tables were turned, I feel she would have reported the affair. But I'm just not willing to burn that bridge,

At this point, the best approach to all your actions is to ask yourself - what is best for me. It's hard to disentangle oneself from someone we have been so intertwined with for many, many years, but sadly, she has disconnected from you and is not considering your needs or well-being - clearly, because if she was, she wouldn't be behaving is such a self-centred, callous way. I'm sorry this is blunt, but while she is in a crisis, this is who she is. Will she remain this way? Who knows - hopefully she will one day start to introspect and deal with the harm she has caused others, but this is likely a long way off, as not only is she running from herself (perhaps past issues), she has also added a cargo of guilt and shame connected to her treatment of you. She needs to face all of that and be ready and willing to want to address it.

it's infuriating to have only two options — wait and see and try to be a lighthouse, or go nuclear. There's no in-between at this time.

I know others will also jump on this. You have as many options as you wish to consider. The general wisdom is the middle way - give yourself grace to heal. For many that means a kind of triage of support from loved ones, IC and positive activities - particularly regular exercise (endorphins - nature's antidepressent )

I really appreciate your insight on things... and I'm so sorry that it's gone that way for you. I would say I hope things turn around for you, but six months out is just unimaginable — then again, I'm sort of at three months myself. Thankfully there's no house to sell, nor kids to worry about. Just the finances.

Thankfully, I have a fair amount of money set aside that cannot be touched by her, and vice-versa. I do keep an eye on the joint account daily, which is mostly stocks and money market values. I'm not sure what protecting myself looks like in this case, but I should talk to the financial advisors and perhaps get a lawyer on retainer. It is considered "community property" regardless of all things in CA law, unfortunately. Woof.

You may find that you are the only one abiding by that law - perhaps it is possible to move the funds, or your half of them, for the time being. Not everyone has crisis spouses that are bad with money, but most do.

So sorry - there is light and laughter on the horizon, but this is a process and journey for you too.

[AlvinTheMaker]

I was really hoping someone would tell me there's a light at the end of the tunnel — but I also realize that all of the YouTube channel's videos explicitly say there's no guarantee of reconciliation, so I'm measuring my expectations heavily.

Sad but true. There are no official stats available, but it seems less than 5% of LBS/MLC couples reconcile over time. If this was a regular rough patch, then your odds could be many times higher. But everyone's story is unique, so no predictions.

Work on you and your wellbeing, and life will become good regardless of what happens with her.

Alvin

[geist]

Thank you all again for the kind words. I'm doing my best to keep the household running and taking care of our small dog.

I did hear from her briefly yesterday, and got more information from my mother-in-law that is interesting.

She texted me to ask how our dog is, if she still has a vet appointment tomorrow, and to tell me a bag of food had been delivered to our apartment box. On its face, it's a nothingburger to react to. She loves our dog as much as I do, and the vet appointment is on the shared calendar. I waited about 30 minutes before answering, because honestly I don't know how I should respond.  I told her "I'm taking care of her," without any additional info — as it is, she's opted out of having clear insight into what's happening in our lives. (Doggo is fine, just small and starting to get old.) I also shared with her a hand-drawn Valentines's card (digitally), zelle'd her a bit of money for Super Bowl/Valentines food with her parents, and a playlist of songs I'd put together for her. I don't know if it helped or hurt, but she thanked me for it and gave a kind word about the art. I told her I loved her, but got no reply after that.

I presume she's still doing her thing with the Alienator.

My MIL mentioned that she was slow in answering me because my FIL gets nosey when she's on her phone. MIL knows pretty much everything, and she asked me to never tell my FIL about the affair — to which I just said I want this all to end and for us all to heal together. The harsh reality of everything is my W will eventually have to face the reputation consequences of her MLC/affair if it doesn't resolve eventually.

I'm trying to be patient, because as others have said — I'm working on myself and giving space as possible.

Thank you again for all of the support. I weirdly feel better after having had her "check in" yesterday.

[geist]

Well, she filed for divorce today. All I got was an email from her attorney, with a pre-filled out google sheet about how to split up our assets.

[Reinventing]

Sorry, that is very painful. They are so sure that the LBS is the source of their problems and that the fantasy life will solve everything.

[UrsaMajor]

Well, she filed for divorce today. All I got was an email from her attorney, with a pre-filled out google sheet about how to split up our assets.

Do you have legal counsel / advice? Is the division realistic/acceptable/non-detrimental to you? Does it cover the things that you need to have covered; Pensions, IRA's, kids (if applicable) joint debt, property, support (or lack thereof) all those kinds of things?

We are often so overwhelmed by the sheer violence of the act that we fail to take proper care of ourselves and our own needs....

Sorry, that is very painful. They are so sure that the LBS is the source of their problems and that the fantasy life will solve everything.

Exactly.... until they find out that La La Land is NOT full of puppy dogs with waggely tails, pink clouds of cotton candy and unicorns running around farting clouds of rainbow glitter.... By then though, it is often too late for them. The LBS has reached their pain threshold and has said "enough!"

[Treasur]

We are all very sorry, Geist. And we get how you must feel. Particularly after your valentine themed communications.

Imho the best thing you can do now is accept that, given the email, the landscape is now changed from where you were a few days ago. That’s not your fault but it is still how it is. So, now, it’s a business thing not a relationship thing. You will still of course have lots of unresolved relationship feelings….but your actions need to be business ones. No more Nugget messages or gifts or cards. Just assets and legal stuff. By al, means mourn your losses…that’s normal…but you still have to deal with the business end.

Do you have your own lawyer? And what is your take on all the practical stuff UM mentioned? Bc he’s quite right that when we are reeling emotionally, we are not always in the best frame of mind to deal with the business end of a marriage and to protect our own best interests.

[mcm64d]

My apologies this is happening. It’s all too fast isn’t it? Makes no sense no matter how many times you replay things in your mind and no matter how many different scenarios you can imagine.

Fairness is something I struggle with. “It’s just not fair…” and it’s true it’s not fair. And I’m sorry for that too.

Sometimes I think of how I literally wrapped myself around my wife because she was so cold having COVID. And she literally said she feared I would get it and I responded I didn’t care. Or when she called me her hero when she saw me walking down the highway to get her after she had been in an accident that totaled her car. Or that the house we bought after I returned to college made her feel like a princess.

And yes I do sometimes think of the things I could have done better in my relationship and how I wished I could go back in time and fix them. Or how I have grown as a person, as a husband during my marriage.

I’m sure you are doing the same. And it comes to the same point- it’s unfair. And I’m sorry but fairness has no say in this.

Please keep hold of everything endearing about your relationship- don’t let this tarnish those memories. Please also forgive yourself for any wrong doings- we are human and being a spouse doesn’t come with a training manual. Mistakes and regrets happen. Make yourself stronger and forgive yourself.

[geist]

Thank you all for the kind words. As it stands, she's coming with her mother this weekend to collect the stuff she wants to keep and is leaving the rest for me to deal with — essentially leaving me holding the bag for everything she doesn't want to take for herself. My mom is also coming in tomorrow to give me emotional support, and will stay through the week.

This is a mess, and yes, I feel completely lost. I'm glad I'm on lexapro, to say the least. I have a council with a lawyer today in about two hours. So, I should have representation soon.

I don't know how worthwhile it will be for me to stay with this community, since she's en route to eliminate herself from my life in one day, and wants most/all correspondence to go through lawyers.

So, yeah. I'm at a loss, and ugly cried a lot yesterday. Thank you all for the kind words, again.

[UrsaMajor]

You might want to consider hanging around for a while if for no other reason that to get the support of a group of people who have "Been there, Done that, Got the T-Shirt" and who know what you are talking about, see it as a real issue and not just "Oh, your spouse fell out of love with you"

By eliminating direct contact, she also is trying to minimize her own sense of guilt and shame.....

It is not a you issue, it is not an issue with your marriage. It is her problem....

[forthetrees]

When she comes for her stuff it would help if she then signed a paper saying that she was relinquishing whatever was left or she spells out in writing her plan for those items. The last thing you want is to live in a "museum of the detritus of her life and thus your lives together." I literally went through every room and drawer in the house to box up what my then h had left behind because it was too painful to walk past it or see it upon opening a drawer. This was work for me but in the end there were fewer triggers and I got another closet out of it:)

[geist]

I was able to have a conversation with her via text yesterday. I suspect she's moved in with the alienator because she's resistant to a call.

It was cordial, and honest. At this point, I told her she's doing the right thing by filing for divorce and going out to chase what she wants. I was very clear that I wanted to be that for her, but if this is a teen-esque rebellion or even a history revision to say she felt unwanted, unheard, and tolerated — I have to hear her wants and needs now. So, while every time I close my eyes I feel a squeeze in my chest, I'm doing my best to not increase her unpleasant feelings toward me.

She admitted she's in therapy, and needs a lot more. I left it with her saying that I hope we can find each other again after enough therapy. In CA, it takes 6 months + 1 day to actually become divorced. When I see her on Saturday, I plan to talk with her again in a supportive way — if I can handle it.

When she comes for her stuff it would help if she then signed a paper saying that she was relinquishing whatever was left or she spells out in writing her plan for those items. The last thing you want is to live in a "museum of the detritus of her life and thus your lives together." I literally went through every room and drawer in the house to box up what my then h had left behind because it was too painful to walk past it or see it upon opening a drawer. This was work for me but in the end there were fewer triggers and I got another closet out of it:)

I think this is a good idea. The lawyer I spoke to is a "cooperative settlement" type, who aims to keep it smooth and civil, so hopefully it doesn't get terrifically expensive nor knock-down drag-out. Of course, my ideal scenario is the divorce gets dropped. But I'm slowly realizing that's not likely to happen.

The main thing I'm trying to do is disconnect myself from the panic and the immediate rumination of "how do I fix this!?" — This is, at the moment, completely out of my hands and it's very, very hard to adopt the "worry about the things you can control" mentality right now.

I've been white knuckling life since mid-November, and I really want off this ride.

[geist]

She has requested (and both lawyers have suggested) that I not be present for the item pickups, so we've rescheduled it for March 2.

Yeah, the anxiety is killing me today. I've barely been able to work for weeks now, but I've gotta buckle down. We have had mostly cordial texts the last two days, but I sense it's over — whether she has an MLC or not, here's no guarantee of reconciliation.

[Treasur]

Can see some sense in being absent to keep the emotional volume down for everyone.

But I would also make sure that you remove anything that clearly belongs to you which has either great sentimental value or financial value. Oh, and any personal financial type info. Bc it’s not unknown that these folks take stuff they shouldn’t or look at private stuff you might not want them to see. You could of course, I suppose, agree via the lawyers a list of big items she wants to take?

[geist]

Can see some sense in being absent to keep the emotional volume down for everyone.

But I would also make sure that you remove anything that clearly belongs to you which has either great sentimental value or financial value. Oh, and any personal financial type info. Bc it’s not unknown that these folks take stuff they shouldn’t or look at private stuff you might not want them to see. You could of course, I suppose, agree via the lawyers a list of big items she wants to take?

That is the current plan. She will take only what we mutually agree on from a spreadsheet she’s made.

[UrsaMajor]

That is the current plan. She will take only what we mutually agree on from a spreadsheet she’s made.

Uhhhhh ... yeah... right..... and if you believe that,  I have some oceanfront property in Wichita, Kansas I'll sell you - REAL cheap.

Anything that you do NOT want her to take, make sure that you lock it away someplace where she will not have access to it... You may wish to consider consolidating all the things that you DO agree on that she wishes to take in one part of the house so she doesn't have a reason to go on a fishing expedition...

Sorry but Mid-Lifers have the morals and ethics that God gave a turnip and will not think twice about taking whatever they feel like  despite any agreements to the contrary....

[geist]

Small update. My mental health has declined severely since receiving word of the divorce. I'm in therapy, and may need to check into a crisis center.

I have friends here to make sure I don't do anything drastic, but I'm basically crying every day. It's like every morning is the opposite of waking up from a nightmare.

She's coming on the 2nd still, and I'm going to have all of my valuables packed up along with all the things I know I do not want her to take.

The challenge I'm forced to reckon with is what do I do with myself afterwards, because I have no "home" at this point. I'm not ready to process that, and the grief is debilitating. I may have to take a leave of absence from my work because of it.

Sorry to dump. I just wanted to give everyone an update.

[xyzcf]

Hi giest

I know it is very hard to believe me, but you will not always feel this way. This hits us very deep and is truly "trauma", indeed some feel it is similar to post traumatic stress disorder. Our bodies are made to go into fight/flight/freeze mode when we are "threatened". It's a normal response but is not meant to last for long periods of time.

I cried so much, I couldn't sleep, I lost weight, I couldn't focus and if I held my hand out it was shaking. Never in my life had I ever experienced  these things. When I could not get out of this "state", I used clonezapam to break the cycle of intense anxiety. It is highly addictive so doctor's don't like to presecribe it.

You will know by now that you are surrounded here by people who have gone through what is happening to you. I am glad you also have some real life people to support you.

You are in an acute stage of this so many things that I will suggest, just might not be enough right now......medications and therapy may well be what you need at present. I just want to say again...you will not always feel this way. It will start with one breath, one minute, and gradually increase.

I took up golf...when I addressed the ball, for a brief moment I was not thinking about what had happened...and then I would cry in between every hole. You will find things that help you. Some here train and run marathons, other get involved in volunteer work...right now you have to get through each day. And accept that you are allowed to feel deeply about what is happening...your life has been blown apart.

This chart helped me to understand the feelings my body was experiencing and where I needed to be to bring it back to the green zone.

https://lissarankin.com/polyvagal-theory-interoception-a-neuroscience-understanding-of-attachment-trauma/polyvagal-chart/

My therapist was an expert in mind body connections and treating trauma. That worked better for me than traditional talk therapy.

Keep writing here, others will write to you and I think that will give you some relief and please let us know how you are doing.

You mentioned you did not have a home anymore. Do you have to leave the place you are living now?

[Treasur]

Xyzcf knows what she’s talking about.
I also was an LBS who experienced very similar PTSD symptoms to those she describes.

And both of us are still here.

No way to get round it, Geist, it’s a life hurricane. And you will be taking on other losses and damage in addition to the loss of your wife. I wish it weren’t so, but that it just how it works. Your job is to get from today to tomorrow in the best shape you can. Then from tomorrow to the next day. It really is imho quite a lot like hunkering down in the root cellar until the worst of the tornado passes. I found that, for a while, not forever, you have to prune life back to basics…..keep it as simple as you can…sleep, fresh air, simple food, some sense of safety and structure, kind people who care about you, gentle things, taking life a bit more slowly one step at a time.

I think your reference to ‘home’ is bc your current place is rented? And too expensive for you on your own? Or perhaps just doesn’t feel like where you want to be right now? If so, that’s ok. Staying or going…do what feels like the best thing for you, the thing that will give you a little space to breathe and heal. Whatever choice you make, you can always change your mind when your mindset changes, that’s ok too. Again, just like when a hurricane hits, you find that a lot of things we worry about in normal times don’t matter in quite the same way.

Your job is to keep going, day at a time, gosh an hour at a time if you must, until this life hurricane passes through. And it will, it always does, that’s how life works….you just have to keep going for long enough to get to the other side of it even if you can’t imagine right now what it looks like. And you will. I did…and I genuinely did not believe I would…but I did anyway. And so will you. But you do it one small step at a time until you’re ready to walk with bigger, stronger steps on ground that feels more solid under your feet. Just keep going, my friend. And know that we are here, cheering you on.

[geist]

Thank you all for the replies. Yes, I am taking this so hard that I may need to check into a crisis center. I am working on it with my therapist.

When I say I don't feel like I have a home, I mean that she was my home — it didn't matter where we were. The place I'm in now does not feel safe, and it feels like a tomb. I don't know where to go, because I have no strong ties outside of family that I don't particularly get along with in Missouri.

So I'm juggling five options that are all equally nauseating, move to WA (our original plan), move to MO (god help me), move to TX (and be alone most nights anyway, but I have friends there), stay local (to what end?), and maybe a wildcard answer of moving to Sacramento (fresh start, theoretically I could drive back to the bay area when needed, also cheaper — but also alone.)

I'm terrified of being alone, even though I managed through two months of isolation. I had hope, but now it's essentially gone. I didn't know as soon as I joined this forum that everything would suddenly start falling apart at an accelerated pace.

I remarked to my therapist that I feel like I'm wearing a geist-shaped mask and acting like I'm a human at this point. But I'm just following a script — I feel so empty inside when I'm not feeling the pain, which comes in waves and hits harder and harder each time. Again, I'm talking to a therapist twice a week. Yesterday, she asked how I was and just broke down crying for the whole session.

I don't know how anyone who experiences this holds it together. Heck, I don't know how anyone here has been able to reconcile their spouse (whatever the statistic is.) Everyone tells me there's the other side coming, but 14 years is... well, my whole identity. The other side feels like ash.

Sorry for the depressing post, it kind of turned into a journaling activity.

[Treasur]

It’s ok to vent here if it helps.
Most of us have at one time or another.

I lost my parents (in different ways) just before and after BD, and of course my h. I absolutely get what you are saying. I did not know what to do with the word ‘home’ any longer…my home was my people and without them, well the word did not make sense to me. Not sure it does even now exactly…I’m rather loosely rooted nowadays I suspect. There are a lot of things which are different in my life now and that’s just one of them. I suppose I have just learned to live around it…bc truthfully there are different ways to live your life, and you (and me) are not alone in that.

But it is also tbh too early to say what you will do with the word ‘home’ in years to come. Life unfolds. Maybe there is no ‘home’ now but it does not always mean that’s how it will be.

My first feeling of something like ‘home’ wasn’t a house at all. It was an allotment with a shed where I cleared ground and fought nettles and grew vegetables. Something about getting my fingers in the soil made it feel like a kind of home then. And during Covid it was a marvellous place to be. Now it’s perhaps my cat, my books and a different garden where I live now.

Sounds as if your various options - excluding the family one which sounds like it comes with some drawbacks - all include some dollop of alone. Which sucks and maybe feels a bit scary? But in a way that makes your choices easier perhaps? If you accept that wherever you move, you are going to have to go through that feeling of alone regardless (at least for a while) it lets you look at other criteria. Either practical ones - cost or proximity to work. Or ones that offer a chance to scratch an itch or experiment. Bc you know any choice you make now does not have to be forever…you can change your mind. When I didn’t know where to go, I tried thinking what would lift my soul a bit….and for me it was being by the sea. So for a couple of years I did that and it was healing for me. So if you were to pick a place, any place, where you think you might be surrounded by things that made you feel just 1% better, what would it look and feel like? Lots of busy people? Mountains? Sea? Trees? Tall buildings? Bc this is one of those rare times, when so much of life unravels, when you can throw the dice and pick somewhere to try out without having to compromise around what others want.

[xyzcf]

It is good that you are seeing a therapist. There are many different courses of action. You have mentioned perhaps needing to be admitted to a crisis center. That might very well be the best solution.

You do not have to make any decisions about where you wish to live right now. Staying put might be the best option until you are more steady. It sounds like you are hardly able to breath at present let alone make huge life decisions. Allow yourself the time it takes to regain your equilibrium.

Being alone is difficult and incredibly hard. I ended up being sent back to a house in a country that was not my home country, that I had not lived in very long, that I had only a few acquaintances, family were all a plane ride away. I did not have a job, no animals, just an empty house. I honestly do not know how I made it through each day.

A friend on HS, who lived in the same city said something to me one day (my husband and I have been together 35 years)..he said "xyzcf, MR xyzcf is just a man, and not a very good man at that". It was shocking for me to hear that...I couldn"t "accept" that he wasn't the wonderful loving person I had known for 35 years...but as I learned more about his crisis, this was the start of my understanding that he was only a part of my life, there were many many other parts AND that even the part he had in the prior 35 years was no more.

Slowly, I think the human spirit will try to find a way to "survive" I adjusted to my new reality. A reality that I never wanted but had to learn to accept.

For as you will read here, there is NOTHING that you can do to fix this or change her mind. As inconceivable as that seems, as impossible as that seems. I have never stopped loving him, but he is not my spouse anymore, not even a friend although we do spend time together for family times and because he reaches out, even so many years later.

Pick a small thing to do each day...go for a walk...get some plants to take care of....discover that you can do things on your own..at first it might not feel very good but we are able to shift our perspective and we do start finding things that are interesting.

But all this takes a great deal of time.

You acknowledged that you were journalling your thoughts here...no need to apologize for a "depressing post"....journalling is an excellent way to start to make sense of what has happened to your world.

When you can, allow yourself to dream, to open your mind to the possibilities that exist. Find something that takes you out everyday...maybe taking a class at a gym, joining a church, finding a meetup group that interests you, taking up a new hobby..mine was golf as I stated previously. Traveling to a new place.

Eventually I started meeting people and life became a bit better, not so lonely and more "interesting". When I look back, I actually don't have clear memories of that time,  I just know it was horrible.

But, we survive....you will see that in every single person's story here.

Keep posting and hopefully others will come by and say hello.

[Baxter1]

G-

So sorry this is happening to you. This is a great place to vent and just let it all out( I know I have)
The destruction that this causes is horrible, I couldn’t sleep or eat for a couple of months after BD. We have been in your shoes. When I first got here people said it will get better and you will feel better. At the time I didn’t believe it, I thought this pain would last forever. It does get better and you do get stronger. Also therapy was a godsend, between therapy, watching Kendas videos for hours and coming on here and telling my story it slowly got better. It also helped me to know that this is NOT a marriage problem. I thought it was Walkaway spouse, I thought I ruined everything and I felt so much guilt from that. We are here to help you vent, talk, whatever. Good luck!

[geist]

Thank you again for all the kind words, everyone.

I have a friend here still, who's keeping me company. I'm still suffering from bouts of ennui and dark daydreaming. I'm avoiding telling my (ex)wife about them because I both don't want her worrying about me and I don't want to repulse her further with a sense of pity. I did make a facebook post saying I'm in a dark time, hiding it from her using filters — I have a sense someone told her about the post though. I have to wonder if that was something I actually intended to happen without admitting it to myself. Regardless, I finally got a decent night's sleep thanks to... a potential risk of forming a habit of taking sleeping pills. It was that or... yeah.

I can sense the denial my brain is forcing on me, because I'm trying so hard not to think about things. I keep crafting narratives in my mind that lead to her coming to her senses — and that's the only peace I continue to give myself. I'm worried I'm setting myself up for another hard fall, though. The separation of emotional mind and logical mind has never been so clear to me as it is now.

Aside from that, there's no real update. She's gone radio silent again. Still no voice, and certainly not seeing her. I suspect I'll get a text or two sometime this week before she comes in on the 2nd.

The same friend that's here is going to help me with the spreadsheet for asset splitting today. I can feel the anxiety build up any time I look at the thing.

I'm still marked as in-crisis with my therapist, and have a session tomorrow. I've also found the local crisis center that I can go to if I have another hard moment. Unfortunately, I think the hard moments are cumulative in severity — since it's like they "progress" somehow each time. It's not a great feeling.

[xyzcf]

Thanks for the update! I was wondering how you were doing.

So good to have someone with you to deal with the paperwork. I would have increased anxiety anytime I had to deal with any of the paperwork or letters from the court or my lawyer. Still gives me a sick feeling. Sometimes you have to bring the court decree to an office, for example when I applied for medicare and I did not want to even touch those papers!

Sleep is really important as well. Medications sometimes are necessary and useful and you understand that they could become habit forming. When you do not need them any more, you should be able to cease taking them or taking them only on occasion when you are not able to sleep.

Being aware of our emotional, physical and mental state is important so we recognize when something is off and can deal with it....one of my best therapies was to talk to a few really good friends and get out all my worries/concerns/sadness...I cried a great deal in those days on the phone.

Unfortunately, I think the hard moments are cumulative in severity — since it's like they "progress" somehow each time. It's not a great feeling.

We have been caught off guard and live in a state of fear and not knowing what will happen next. Our bodies are on high alert, fight/flight/freeze mode.

I compare it to peeling an onion. There are a lot of layers of grief to resolve. One thing I have learned about grief is that there is no time table...it takes as long as it must. I think, when you look back on this time, you will be able to see how you slowly progressed to a place that is just a slight more comfortable, just a slight less impacting on our thoughts and lives....when you feel that, even if it's only for a brief second, let that feeling of ease sit with you...for you will realize that you can feel it and more and more, that will become your norm.

[geist]

Well, I went to the Crisis Stabilization Clinic today for an evaluation. I was considered a high risk for self harm, but not an imminent one.

It inspired me to write a letter to my estranged wife, telling her gently about how hard this has been, and reaffirming my love for her. … She responded by forwarding me an email saying there’s a package in the box for our dog. So, she’s just going to ignore what I told her, I guess.

That will be a fun conversation for my therapist tomorrow. I just… yeah. I wish I could stop loving her, and disconnect. I’m as of yet incapable and it’s just causing me even more hurt.

[Baxter1]

G-

How can you stop loving someone? It’s been a year for me and I can’t say that I will ever stop. The detachment is something that comes with time. When this all started I would stay up and worry where she was, now I just assume she’s out doing whatever with whomever. It still hurts but it hurts a little less each time. Sorry you’re here but it’s good that you have a good therapist.
Unrelated note: sorry about the 49ers, I thought this was there year.

[geist]

G-
How can you stop loving someone? It’s been a year for me and I can’t say that I will ever stop.

I know it's the definition of bomb drop on this site, but she told me in a number of ways that she doesn't love me anymore.

There was a quick email response from her yesterday night. It just said she's glad I'm getting the support I need, she needs time to process the email before responding, and... hi to my friend.

I don't expect promising results.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am truly sorry that you are going through this.

I wish I could stop loving her, and disconnect. I’m as of yet incapable and it’s just causing me even more hurt.

You can't just disconnect when your world is completely shaken. Detachment is a process and right now everything with you is raw and sore. It's one thing if you and her were on the same page and both felt the same way. While she was going through her crisis and implementing her exit plan, she didn't give you the memo. The whole process distorts your perception of reality.

I don't expect promising results.

Don't have any expectations at all. In fact the only expectation you need to have is that you are going to get better. This forum is about you and your road to recovery. I do urge you to continue to see your therapist and focusing on your mental and physical health.

It inspired me to write a letter to my estranged wife, telling her gently about how hard this has been, and reaffirming my love for her. … She responded by forwarding me an email saying there’s a package in the box for our dog. So, she’s just going to ignore what I told her, I guess.

For future advice, I urge that you keep a journal and write to yourself and not share any of your feelings. Don't expect a response or any other emotional connection. She may even get angry as her feeling will come from guilt- not empathy. The less you say and the less "relationship talks" you engage with her will help you in the long run. It will help you detach and break the emotional connection that you have to her and it is what is bringing you down. This is not an easy process and it will take time, but it will help you ground yourself and help you recover from the trauma she has inflicted on you.

Be good to yourself and seek help if you have any feelings of self harm. Trust me, you are here for a purpose and I want you to continue to post and be a part of our virtual world.

Take care,

(((Ready)))

[Reinventing]

For future advice, I urge that you keep a journal and write to yourself and not share any of your feelings.

We've seen enough postings from Ready to know that what he means is to avoid sharing your feelings with the MLCer. Certainly share them with friends and family.

The reason many of us learned to not share feelings with the MLCer is that the LBS is then tied to the MLCer's response. Right now, especially in the early stages, the MLCer is set in thinking they did the right thing. Relying on the MLCer to "snap out of it" or care about the LBS and respond in a way that makes sense in the past is usually met with disappointment for the LBS.

Good job on getting your tribe around you (friend, therapist, crisis center, etc). Sometimes it's about getting through the next 5 minutes.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Thanks reinventing for the clarification. I did mean with your MLCer. You can come and post with us anytime.

Have a great day,

(((Ready)))