[Treasur]

I am very, very sorry.
Sadly I’m not at all surprised which is one of the disadvantages of being an old hand here.

I imagine you are going to have a whole bunch of emotions over the next few days. And that’s ok. Well it sucks, but feeling what you feel won’t kill you. And it’s important to let yourself feel how you feel without trying to temper it or be nice or good or kind. As long as you don’t act too precipitously just to scratch a feeling itch either way. And please don’t let your (deceitful unfaithful selfish weak) husband hand over his feelings to you to manage too. If he is sadz or guilty or uncomfortable with your feelings, tough - he can learn how to deal with his own feelings while you do the hard solo work of sitting with your own. Bc you know it’s ok to not be his friend right now…you can be civil and respectful without being his chum or supportive ear. If he doesn’t like it, well that’s a pretty predictable consequence of doing what he’s done in the real adult world, isn’t it? He’s no real friend to you at the moment, I’d suggest. And he knows where the door is.

Of course your concern about the kids is going to shade your lens right now while you work out what is best for you and them. I’d suggest you breathe, give yourself a bit of space and time, and consider if you think him staying, going or something in between is going to create the most calm, safe and sane space for you and the kids. It sounds as if he is intending to carry on with his Moscow Mule so you have the right to decide on your own boundaries and what is, or is not, acceptable to you as a way to live. Just as he is currently doing.

[Nas]

I hope healing starts with truth.

I can promise you it really does. ((Hugs))

[KayDee]

Urgh, so sorry AL. I guess now you know that his behaviour re physical contact was to do with his shame. Because yes, his behaviour is despicable, self-serving and says everything about him and nothing about you. It's such a cliche - the old flame. And unlikely love - not if love is built on mutual respect, growing together, supporting each other and creating a close bonded family. If it was this kind of love, the kind that long term partnerships grow from, then their first romance would not have fizzled out 20 years ago. Clearly neither of them had the chops to survive whatever it was that they 'went' through back then. Probable it will fall at the same hurdle this time around with the added destabilizing sand of deceit, shame and disgusting disregard of others. Of course, the obvious question is - if he doesn't like himself, how can he love someone else?

Treasur is right, you will go through a whole bunch of emotions. No way to by-pass them, only through. Keep posting and sharing here if you feel you need to. Maybe it will help free up some mental space for you to support your dear sister, who has been such a rock for you this last few months. Sending hugs and strength to you AL.

[amazinglove]

Update: I went to NYC to be with my sister. I left him with the kids and took the red eye. My mom kindly agreed to stay with him
To keep kids on an even keel/schedule plus she’s got a broken ankle.
I told him he has a week to clear his head and get some good advice from those he trusts. And I will too. I said that if he loves someone else and won’t give her up then there is no marriage and we can talk about the logistics and legal separation agreement when I get back on Sunday. He admitted his older sister does know ab this affair and is angry at him in as is everyone else in his life. He said every single person is telling me to end it. I told him for a guy that’s found a great love he sure cries a lot. He said the only time he doesn’t cry is when he sleeps. He needs to see a doctor and I told him whatever happens to us get help. I am just landed in NY on way to my gorgeous sister’s appt on the UES. Oh I found out - The woman he’s seeing js 15 years older than him and has a daughter nearly his age. He is 44, she is 59, daughter 38. I mean……I think she dated him in his early 20s and manipulated him when he was weak then too! Just a weird dynamic. He does seem addicted to her somehow and I don’t know if he can break that spell. I don’t know that I will ever ever love or want him
The same way but I would still try even after this. The agonizing guilt he exhibited during his 4 hour confessional (after which he immediately fell asleep the way murderers do after confessing btw) has convinced me that he will not live a double life again for a long while. It took a massive toll. As bad as it is, I’m glad for the truth.

[Treasur]

What a smart call. You need a break, both of you will doubtless benefit from a bit of space and you can invest your love and care with a sister who will value your support.

Ow is doubtless a dysfunctional hot mess bc, well, they normally are.  Birds of a feather etc etc.

I hope your sister is doing ok. X

[jmnab]

Just read through this - I'm so sorry.
It must be very painful, but at least you don't have to wonder anymore. 

Hopefully the truth coupled with distance/time with other family will bring clarity.
I hope your sister is well.

Sending love and good thoughts...

[amazinglove]

Hi all from the Big Apple! My sister's biopsy came back benign. We found out today. Much rejoicing here!!

H is with kids and spends most of the day (while they're at school) on sofa watching tv. I am working from my sister's apt and going out every night. He called last night with D bc he was out buying her a new bike (she needs one) and they wanted my opinion. I was in the apt but went out esp to a bar to call them back - no way was I calling him back from inside the house. He immediately said to my D (who was on camera) under his breath "ask her where she is?!" was nice to see the slight panic cross his face. Have been doing a lot of walking around Central Park and this city has the best energy. I lived here for a long time and it is nice to feel back at home in many ways. I feel a connection with myself.

The latest from camp crazy is that H is trying now to make a heroic decision whether to give up his mistress or stay to fight for his family. At the moment he is undecided. I also found out he's lost 3 clients - he now has only 10 hours of work a week - and this other woman is very, very rich. She is also a grandmother and 61 - my H is 44 and tall and handsome - so if he goes to her he does not have to get a job or rebuild his career likely. If he stays with me, he most certainly does. I cannot think of a man less suited to be a toyboy than my husband, who is insanely proud - but this lady obvs has figured out a way to make him feel in charge and powerful. I can't help but think tho, that once he blows up his life, gets divorced and goes to her and that balance of power shifts (he has no way back or other options) that their dynamic will shirt entirely. I would enjoy watching that play out actually.

My kids are still really happy he's here. He's been playing with them and handling pick ups/drop offs, took my son for haircut etc. Basic stuff.  I am therefore not going to push him out the door when I get back on Sunday. However, he seems itching to go, I imagine he's talking to her and she's def nudging him out the door (come back to me! I'll take care of you! you are a good person!) feels guilty and hates seeing himself through my now (entirely opened to all of his s***) eyes.

From my side, I'm not sure what to do, and what I even want at this point. I do not feel much love for him. He does not appreciate all that I've done and the inner work I've had to do to even talk to him and be in the same house as him right now. He does not understand what an amazing wife I have been and continue to be. He is still hugely resentful that he 'gave up' his big opportunity at his London studio 2 years ago to follow me to the US. He still believes I was too controlling and I fear that if I act as a 'normal' wife (ie when are you getting a real job? or 'when are you going back to Turkey and how long are you staying'?) he will immediately react and be horrible to me.

Based on some texts he sent me, I got the idea he is planning to go back next week.  I told him to not book any return tickets until he talks to me when I'm back Sunday and he accused me of trying "to manage him". I reminded him that we have tickets to go to Universal Studios next Thursday and kids are off Fri/Mon next week. I said the kids will be upset and damaged if you only stay 2 weeks. He accused me of using the kids to manipulate him. Are you kidding me?? Does he think I WANT him here right now in my house? Someone else is telling him this. someone else is impinging all my motives. I can guess who. How can I express to him real needs on the part of our kids without being accused of weaponizing them to manipulate him? I am going figure out how to address this asap. I will never stop advocating for them.

Basically he is still a horrible person that is unlike any version of him I've known before, and I do not actually want to live with or be connected to him. He is a selfish, depressed zombie and hard to be around. I constantly feel like I need to cheer him up. He has no job here in the USA and no purpose and seems unmotivated to find it. He refuses to see a doctor and get meds or therapy. I think that the fact that he is not sure he even wants me and has not promised to cut things off with his predator-granny makes me think there is nothing to fight for here, apart from a really lovely history. I can tell you this, despite his becoming increasingly horrible in the past 1-2 years, we had 10 wonderful, amazing years of marriage and he was a kind, faithful and very good husband and father for all that time.  And while he shows reluctance to return to who he was, he also says things like 'I f'ed up and I want to save this family etc' so I know he's somewhat torn.

If I didn't have kids this would not be a question for me. If my kids were in college and not 7 and 10 this would not be a question for me. I would definitely walk away from him. I would actually run. But in these circumstances, I'm not sure what to do. I won't settle for a terrible husband just for them, but I also want to give him every chance to pull out of this and he is clearly not well.

"No sudden movements", "Take your time," 'Trust your Instincts" "set some boundaries", 'ultimatum/force him to get help'

 I THINK you wise folk will tell me?

thank you in advance, with love.

[Nas]

I’m really happy to hear that your sister got good news, I’m sure you’re both so relieved. I too enjoy walking around New York City. I was just there a few weeks ago and found it was a good change of scenery to try to work through some  things I’ve been grappling with. I actually had some major revelations while I was there so it was worth the trip.

I’m not going to give you any advice, only that I don’t know that you really have to do much of anything right now unless you want to. As long as you and your kids and mom are safe and sound and you are not in any imminent danger of facing consequences of any of his actions, you don’t have to make a decision immediately. Except that if he’s planning to leave again next week, let him go. You can’t do anything about him. That said, you owe him nothing, so if it were me, I’d let him get himself to the airport, let him figure out all of his own details and logistics and finances. Let him live out his “grand plans,” including any consequences that come from those plans.

[Nas]

I just wanted to add in regards to the OW, sure, she may be in his ear, and it’s all infuriating, but in the end you will realize it doesn’t matter. He’s responsible for his choices. That includes the choice to leave his children again after two weeks, as much as you want to shield them from that pain. The only way to protect kids in these situations is to try to help them see that it’s not about them, none of it is their fault and that you can’t control other peoples actions but that other peoples actions are not a statement about who you are. Kids identify themselves as their parents, there’s no separation for them. if someone says their parent is bad, it means they are bad. If they perceive their parents to be bad, they perceive themselves to be bad. You can help them see that his actions aren’t a reflection of them, but you can’t do anything about his actions. he’ll have to live with the fallout of that, of leaving his kids to go try to find some part of himself in another human being.

[jmnab]

He does not appreciate all that I've done and the inner work I've had to do to even talk to him and be in the same house as him right now.
He does not understand what an amazing wife I have been and continue to be.
He is still hugely resentful that he 'gave up' his big opportunity...
He still believes I was too controlling ... he will immediately react and be horrible to me.
I told him to not book any return tickets until he talks to me when I'm back Sunday and he accused me of trying "to manage him".
He accused me of using the kids to manipulate him.
How can I express to him real needs on the part of our kids without being accused of weaponizing them to manipulate him?
He is a selfish, depressed zombie and hard to be around.
... he is clearly not well.

First, I'm so happy your sister's results were benign. That is fantastic news!!! 

As for your other half, I'm truly sorry. Everyone here has much better advice than I could imagine giving.
I'm definitely commiserating - everything in this list resonates with me. It's as if aliens invaded the earth and sucked out all the logic and goodness from their brain through a straw.

I'm slowly but surely learning there is nothing I can do and no reasoning with them. I can't imaging going through this with kiddos.