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Our Community / Whiplash from clinging boomerang
« Latest by Treasur on Today at 12:43:27 AM »
I find myself agreeing with Zartheit that you might be standing a bit closer than you intend to do in your observation, although we all get how difficult it is to do in a situation like this. Essentially, from over here in the very cheap seats, it sounds as if your h is basically ‘camping out’ at your house, physically present but not much more. Probably not even as engaged as a friendly visitor let alone a partner in your family and domestic life? And as we LBS know all too well, there’s a tendency in that kind of situation to look for signs and confirmations, to assume we know things we can’t, to fill in the gaps. Partly bc living like this is hard, partly bc our nervous system sees it a bit like living around an unexploded bomb or dangerous dog imho. Even if our brains don’t want to think that way, the lizard bits of our brains FEEL that way. With all the effects that come with it.

That was a pretty long list of symptoms and speculation about where your h might be at. I’d suggest gently that you might find it more useful to replace him as a symptom focus and turn your eye to you. What are YOUR symptoms right now? Where do you feel you are at? You mused on whether cortisol and prolonged stress might account for some of your exhaustion…again jmo, but yes that’s possible. You might find it really helpful to read up about that - Bessel van der Kolk is good on this stuff, but there are others who explain more about how our autonomic nervous system works under significant prolonged stress. You might find it helpful to reflect on what kind of exhausted you are, what makes you feel 5% better or 5% worse. To look at your current basics around sleep, food and exercise. To experiment with things like yoga or mediation or walking if you don’t already do these things. To keep a simple journal to help you observe your progress and challenges. To set a goal, maybe just a single simple word that represents how you’d LIKE to feel, what ‘not exhausted’ means to you and how you know where you are from day to day. In short, to throw away the paragraph about your marital ‘camper’ and replace it with one about you 😜

A bit of you may be feeling that if you don’t observe him, how will you know what is going on and if he is reconnecting or not. Again, humbly, I’d suggest two things….that if he is reconnecting, you can trust yourself to feel that bc it will be consistent and obvious and different. It really is ok to trust yourself, to trust your gut instinct about when a quacking thing is a duck or not. You’re smart and you’ve been at this for a while now….you can trust you. Even though it’s true that most LBS lose that confidence for a little while…but it’s ok to reclaim it.

And that, unless you have him locked in a shed for 24 hours a day, your observations of him drinking or his mindset or activities or ow are all based on limited data and outwith your control pretty much anyway, so it’s a bit of a cheese less tunnel. So, not very useful to you imho. He will do or not do, choose or not choose x or y based on how he currently sees himself and the world, based on what currently works best for him or not. He will change - or not - based on much the same, so leave him to figure it out. You get to decide what is acceptable in your home and in your life, that’s what boundaries are for, but you don’t get to control everything else or what others think or feel or do. Even if that’s a bit frustrating. 😝
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Our Community / Whiplash from clinging boomerang
« Latest by zartheit on March 18, 2025, 02:54:15 PM »
Who is this "we"?

I don't mean to come across as heartless, but I see a lot of predictions. For example, the location of the RV, and anticipated family vacations. This is on top of your adoption of the role of observational therapist. I imagine having a firm sense of knowledge feels empowering, but knowledge without action is a forgotten book, and the action necessary is entirely NOT yours to take.

I don't mean to chide you or even give you advice, but did want to note those aspects as they really stood out to me.

Another month or so has gone by.  I am just so tired. My sleep has been better since starting HRT, but I seem to need more of it.  I have been reading lots about cortisol and stress and I wonder if my body is just exhausted from being under stress for so long at this point. 
I can relate to that almost bottomless tired. I would only be able to sleep for a few restless hours a night, in between rounds of night sweats. It was insane I ever managed to do anything during the day.

During spring break I did a mini redo for my daughters' bathroom--painted cabinets, walls, doors, trim, added new cabinet hardware, deep cleaned, and organized drawers.  We also took a trip to Ikea and got some new yarn for some future projects.
And nice work improving the house! The satisfaction of boxchecking is always great, plus I imagine future you will be quite grateful for the upgrades.

The weather has been gorgeous here and I have really enjoyed having the jeep top off--its a thing that really makes me happy!
This is great. I also find myself rolling down the windows and bumping some tunes during the transition from winter to spring.
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Our Community / Whiplash from clinging boomerang
« Latest by Happylight on March 18, 2025, 01:31:34 PM »
Another month or so has gone by.  I am just so tired. My sleep has been better since starting HRT, but I seem to need more of it.  I have been reading lots about cortisol and stress and I wonder if my body is just exhausted from being under stress for so long at this point. 

More updates from the observational cheap seats....

We are now about 10 weeks sober.  He still hasn't said anything about it.  I have not quit drinking completely, but am only drinking occasionally in very limited amounts when he is not around.  As for being around--he has been at the RV about 1 night a week, but sometimes it is 10 days between the times he goes.  He as at home pretty much the rest of the time. He is calm, and a few times irritable, but nothing at all like the two years leading up to the bomb drop.  Sometimes, I am wondering if this was what he was like before this whole thing started and I just don't remember anymore, of if is he is just different now.   I keep wondering when/if he will decide that he doesn't need to keep the RV at the RV park (as opposed to storage) anymore.  I used to LOVE camping in the RV, but I don't feel like I could enjoy it for family vacations anymore, so I don't know what will happen with that in the future.  He still hasn't broken the silence, and has said even less over the last 10 weeks than he did over the past two years. I feel like it is possible we could be dealing with something referred to as PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome), which is a period of withdrawal after the acute symptoms have dissipated, but body hasn't returned to a normal baseline yet.  Symptoms include: Foggy thinking/trouble remembering, Urges and cravings, Irritability or hostility, Sleep disturbances—insomnia or vivid dreams, Fatigue, Issues with fine motor coordination, Stress sensitivity, Anxiety or panic, Depression, Lack of initiative, Impaired ability to focus, decreased libido, and Mood swings --MANY of these things overlap with MLC to begin with.  He has been playing his video game nonstop.   I did think he quit his motorcycle business because he hadn't done anything in months and he had been doing things with club continuously, but apparently he is still involved, just seems a lot less.

Even though he is basically living back at home, in many  ways he is still separate--like living parallel, and it doesn't feel like he is fully re-engaged, so I just keep giving him space, and trying to continue on with my life.

I keep going with work (STEM teacher), mom stuff, and trying to better myself (workouts, piano, crochet).  It's hard to do all that stuff and not be exhausted all the time.  During spring break I did a mini redo for my daughters' bathroom--painted cabinets, walls, doors, trim, added new cabinet hardware, deep cleaned, and organized drawers.  We also took a trip to Ikea and got some new yarn for some future projects. The weather has been gorgeous here and I have really enjoyed having the jeep top off--its a thing that really makes me happy!
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Our Community / Links/Blogs/Articles for us all to share 10
« Latest by KayDee on March 17, 2025, 02:56:28 AM »
I would be really interested in what people make of this:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4cravvuXyaeZxbP0I7yXMR

If you are not familiar, Heavyweight is a podcast that helps people resolve an issue from the past - hence the title.  The creator, Jonathan Goldstein is  both witty and sincere. (it's available on iTunes etc also.) This is episode 29.

I've been listening for years, and I suddenly remembered this one

"When Elyse was 21, her father, Billy, disappeared without explanation. When Elyse finally learned of his whereabouts, she was shocked by the new life he was living. Now, for the first time in five years, Billy and Elyse sit down to talk"


I found it really thought-provoking and I thought of our community.


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Our Community / WHISKEY ME AWAY
« Latest by Dragonfly33 on March 14, 2025, 11:18:45 AM »
Hi Watcher, I read your previous posts when you were in the thick of your xw’s MLC because Ready posted on someone’s thread to read your story. I am amazed how you handled all those crazy $h!te your xw did and how you have moved on with your life and focused on yourself. I could never imagine myself being put in that situation. I thought my story was so bad but after reading yours, I thought WTF! lol I never imagined MLC could go down that $h!te road. Well done for your marathon accomplishment.
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Our Community / Full Moon Alert VII
« Latest by UrsaMajor on March 14, 2025, 06:10:30 AM »
Early this morning (in the US) was a lunar eclipse and today (the 14th) is a full moon. An eclipse can only happen at the time of a full moon so ....

============================================================

Tonight is the Full Crow Moon also known as the Worm Moon and the Sap Moon. Called the Crow Moon for the cawing crows around this time that signal the end of winter. As the earth thaws worms start to appear. And it marks the time when maple sap begins to flow and the annual tapping of maple trees begins.
The Spring Equinox is almost upon us when both day and night are at equal length we are reminded to find our own inner balance. focus inward toward inner wisdom and self-analysis. This Full Moon is in the sign of Virgo, this will give us a keen eye for detail, we will see things and people and situations in our lives with crystal clarity, a light will be illuminated allowing us to see beyond the shadows. This is a time of cultivating and growing, just as the Suns energy and nature is doing at this time. Plant the seeds of new ventures, plan for the future, think about what it is you want and need and set about putting a plan into action. Use this energy for your own personal transformation, rebirth and regrowth.
Tonight's Full Moon illuminates our inner feelings and desires, so emotions can be quite raw and enhanced. The Virgo Full Moon means we may be over critical of ourselves and of others, try not to see the bad in everything instead look for the good. The Virgo sign is a very hard working and practical sign so use its energy for getting jobs done that you have been putting off for a while. Virgo is not scared to face deep issues, so tackle any problems and bring them to an end.
This Full Moon brings light to whatever was hidden in the darkness or buried within the subconscious such as emotional pain or our deepest desires, but once awareness happens you are able to make realistic changes. Our emotional levels move like strong turbulent waves in the ocean during high tide for some during this Full Moon. Emotional reactions may be strong, energies may feel irritable or uptight. We are amidst great times of transformation which are heralding major new beginnings. Change isn't always easy or comfortable and it’s constant, so we must strive to keep our balance during these changing tides.
The world as it stands is challenged by many opposing forces now. We feel them both personally and collectively, pushing against our own will, raising difficult questions, triggering issues we would rather avoid. How we keep our own balance of light and dark and manage our own inner conflicts largely dictates how we manage outside ones. If we struggle with our own anger or hatred, telling ourselves we shouldn’t feel this way, we will struggle to respond effectively to the anger of others, allow yourself to feel angry or upset, but don't let it take over, keep a balance. If we fear our own power, preferring to see ourselves as victim rather than creator we may succumb to the power wielded by others, adopting their thoughts and priorities, behaviors and lifestyles without discerning the right path for us. If we refuse to acknowledge our own inner selfishness that demands its own way no matter what, we may project it onto the world around us, pointing the finger of judgement and even becoming a bully. Don't suppress your feelings, embrace your light and your dark sides as one cannot exist without the other. We need both. Let go of guilt and allow yourself to feel what you're feeling without self-judgement.
Let the energy of this Full Moon wash over you and cleanse your spirit, use it to heal you both emotionally and physically. Let the moonlight bathe and sooth you mind, body and soul. let the earth element of Virgo bury negativity. Stay away from self-doubt. Seek a balance of light and dark and see the truth in your life however much it may hurt, only then can you do something about it and begin to heal.

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Our Community / There can be an XW or XH, but never ex-children
« Latest by MadLuv on March 13, 2025, 08:39:31 PM »
So, I had the craziest thing happen and it really threw me off for a day or so. I got a email from our city parks and recs that the a father of one of the childrens memorial instruments in our musical playground wanted his child sign. We took them down, because all the instruments had been replaced and they did not match. The child was the grandchild of my XH asst day manager at his old job.

So, after 4 years of disconnection from that group and not knowing what they now knew or didn’t I was a little leary. However, she is classy and not a gossiper and so I felt it would all go well. I emailed her my phone number and she called me. I made arrangements to drop the sign off with her. We exchanged niceties and then she said the following

Madluv, I still can’t believe and match who I knew for decades with what I am hearing. I said, oh? Are there rumors and talking, because I wasn’t sure. Everyone thinks he is a great guy and I assumed they still do. She said, as soon as OWife transfer people started to piece it together. She said, that woman is nothing but troubles. She is a mess. She will take him for every penny he has. She thinks she is amazing and everyone should bow to her. She is a mess.

I was so shocker, because she is not a gossiper, but she seems very traumatized herself. She said, I can now looking back see some of the signs, but I guess I ignored or dismissed them because I held him to such a high standard. I couldn’t imagine he would do what he did and specifically knowing his kids work in the same building. She said, I felt so bad for them when he got fired. She said, ai was glad S32 quit. She said, I know D34 just had a baby so I haven’t seen her. I said, she just quit. She said, good.

She then said, I sometimes just think how did this even start? Like when did the switch flip? I replied, you and me both!!! I said, basically anyone that had an issue and came in his office he started some type of bond/relationship as their savior and it just seems it escalated. I said, in the middle of the #metoo movement!  I did tell her some of the ones I knew and that he had a 3 year unreciprocated relationship with. I said, he was literally in an escape fantasy world. She said, well I heard he doesn’t even live with his OWife anymore. I said, I know!!$ they are in different states. You can’t make it up. She said, maybe he is waking up. If he isn’t I am telling you she will be is Karma. I have been in this building for decades and she has been a problem the whole time. She is very difficult person.

Anyways… so interesting to hear that people are figuring it all out and gossiping and shocked. It was nice to get some real opinion of OWife as I truly have never seen her or met her in person. She did say that she herself has no contact with XH and doesn’t see any reason to ever reconnect with him know what she knows now. She just kept saying, I can’t believe the moral guy with such character is not that at all. I said, I know. Believe me. 30 years and kids. It’s hard to take it all in!
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Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by marvin4242 on March 13, 2025, 02:48:56 PM »
FH: the call was not painful, it slightly got me off center. It is still surprising and it was a bit of a reminder of the early days, when I was still engaged and was constantly being belittled and attacked.

I have had many firm boundaries, and W generally holds to them or I will enforce them (which can include ending calls). There were a couple of times in the past 2 years, one time she was attacking/insulting my current partner and I repeated a couple of times firmly that it was not ok, and when she couldn't control herself I ended the call. The other time was about finances and I calmly repeated twice that if she does not want to stick to our agreement we can finalize a divorce, and the second time she calmed down and we continued.

So it's hit and miss, and as boundaries should be they are not there to control her behavior, rather to set firm lines that I will not allow to be cross and will remove myself. I have a lot of experience dealing with highly disordered people (including NPD, borderline and sociopath behaviors) and elements of her behavior pretty much overlap.
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Our Community / Its not you, its me
« Latest by FrenchHusband on March 13, 2025, 01:40:06 PM »
Thank you Marvin for this update. I is still painful to you, you report 10 years after BD shows to us that we can not expect our spouses or ex spouses comin out of MLC. They may or they mayn't, we can not know.

There is something you write that I am not sure to understand fully "We quickly ended the call". Do you have boundaries for this kind of event ?
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Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by UrsaMajor on March 13, 2025, 04:47:30 AM »
With full expectation that it is the same as talking to my cat about visa matters.  :D


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