[Tailspin]

So, I have been here looking at post for 10 months and decided I wanted to share my story.
Wife (45F) bomb dropped me (M49) in October 2023.  Standard ILYBNILWY.  The months preceding this were very chaotic to say the least and at the time had no idea what MLC even was.  Those 2 months were extreme anger and confusion that she wouldn’t talk about.  She also had started peri-mesopause at the time.  Two months after bomb drop she completely stopped talking to me. That freaked the kids out to say the least.   We live in the same house with 2 children (14F and 11M).  This past July (2024) she filed for divorce and had me served.  The only time she has spoken to me is about divorce.  Said she’s been unhappy for years but never told me.  Said that was her bad.  If she really was, I didn’t see it.  We had great times with our families and seemed to have a great marriage.  I still have cards and loving emails for those years. 
About 2 months ago I found out about her affair.  It’s another married man that we know who is short tempered, angry, and generally not a great person.  She denies till this day, but I found texts, chats, and gifts.  It devastated me as she was once a person that would hate on anyone who did things like that.  She is 180 degrees the person she was.  Now she parties on the weekends and works out to be super skinny to wear tight cloths not appropriate for her age.
A neighbor of mine recently commented that in talking to my wife she seemed to have a teenager type mentality.  He said it was like speaking to a 15-year-old. 
Every time I talk to her, she finds another thing that she hates about me.  Some are so trivial.  One was “You were cranky last year one night on vacation, and it really bothered me”.  Another complaint she had was that I only help people for praise.
I had tried marriage counseling knowing that it doesn’t work in MLC and the therapist ended it after 38 minutes stating she can’t work with wife as she was showing now real effort and a constant anger.  I had to call her the following day to apologize for my wife’s behavior as it was so over the top disrespectful.  Upon telling the kids about the upcoming divorce she was emotionless like it was just another checkmark to get done.  I balled my eyes out in the garage afterwards knowing what my kids were feeling.  The only emotion she seems to have ever shown since this thing started is anger.
Anyone ever experience the no talking and excessive anger like this?  I have dropped the emotional rope and done no contact and it doesn’t even bother her.  It took me a real good amount of time to do that as I always liked to hash things out.  My kids said she is an emotional wreck at times that I don’t see and she tells them she is beyond stressed.  Any insight on this would be appreciated.  I love my wife and family and still feel like this is all a bad dream.  Thanks.

[AllieKat]

Im very sorry for what your dealing with! Im going through a situation with my spouse who I think is in MLC! Have you heard of the wife expert!! Ive talked to her and signed up for her videos plus every two weeks she does a zoom meeting. I’ve learned alot. Unfortunately my spouse isnt home he is staying aka hiding at work! You can google ger and even look on you tube as she posts videos on there. It could help !! I wish you luck!!

[Tailspin]

I just found her page.  Thanks for the information.  I have been looking at Heart's Blessings page and it's been a real God send. 

[Treasur]

So, I have been here looking at post for 10 months and decided I wanted to share my story.
Wife (45F) bomb dropped me (M49) in October 2023.  Standard ILYBNILWY.  The months preceding this were very chaotic to say the least and at the time had no idea what MLC even was.  Those 2 months were extreme anger and confusion that she wouldn’t talk about.  She also had started peri-mesopause at the time.  Two months after bomb drop she completely stopped talking to me. That freaked the kids out to say the least.   We live in the same house with 2 children (14F and 11M).  This past July (2024) she filed for divorce and had me served.  The only time she has spoken to me is about divorce.  Said she’s been unhappy for years but never told me.  Said that was her bad.  If she really was, I didn’t see it.  We had great times with our families and seemed to have a great marriage.  I still have cards and loving emails for those years. 
About 2 months ago I found out about her affair.  It’s another married man that we know who is short tempered, angry, and generally not a great person.  She denies till this day, but I found texts, chats, and gifts.  It devastated me as she was once a person that would hate on anyone who did things like that.  She is 180 degrees the person she was.  Now she parties on the weekends and works out to be super skinny to wear tight cloths not appropriate for her age.
A neighbor of mine recently commented that in talking to my wife she seemed to have a teenager type mentality.  He said it was like speaking to a 15-year-old. 
Every time I talk to her, she finds another thing that she hates about me.  Some are so trivial.  One was “You were cranky last year one night on vacation, and it really bothered me”.  Another complaint she had was that I only help people for praise.
I had tried marriage counseling knowing that it doesn’t work in MLC and the therapist ended it after 38 minutes stating she can’t work with wife as she was showing now real effort and a constant anger.  I had to call her the following day to apologize for my wife’s behavior as it was so over the top disrespectful.  Upon telling the kids about the upcoming divorce she was emotionless like it was just another checkmark to get done.  I balled my eyes out in the garage afterwards knowing what my kids were feeling.  The only emotion she seems to have ever shown since this thing started is anger.
Anyone ever experience the no talking and excessive anger like this?  I have dropped the emotional rope and done no contact and it doesn’t even bother her.  It took me a real good amount of time to do that as I always liked to hash things out.  My kids said she is an emotional wreck at times that I don’t see and she tells them she is beyond stressed.  Any insight on this would be appreciated.  I love my wife and family and still feel like this is all a bad dream.  Thanks.

Yes to both anger and silence. More of the latter than the former tbh. Interspersed with the odd burst of ‘woe is me’. Long periods of silence, months at a time. Same approach pretty much when it came to the divorce process he filed for, picking up his stuff, selling the house etc etc. Even now, looking back, it was bizarre and frustrating.
But it wasn’t created by me, it wasn’t my choice (until later I chose NC for my own well-being lol)…,and I couldn’t control it. One can’t force someone to talk to you after all.

But what one CAN do is disengage when/if people are nasty, insulting or angry. She’s entitled to her opinion but you’re not obliged to listen to it - one of the benefits of divorce forcing you to retire from the husband job. And one can adapt one’s expectations….initiate less interaction, ask her less, tell her less, get busy doing other things in other places, stick to basic factual information and walk away from any spew or sadz on her part.

Why don’t we do that, especially initially? It’s a kind of bargaining I think bc some bit of us wants to believe that we have a bit more influence than it usually turns out we have, that some bit of them surely is about more than just Me Me Me, that if we can find the right words or tough it out, things will go back to how they once were.

I know you know that this is very rarely how it goes. Sorry.
 
And when you have those moments of doubt or wondering if you are nuts, remember what your neighbour said. He/she no more made your wife act like a teenager than you did….and whilst she may be behaving like a metaphorical teenager with a car, booze habit and a credit card etc etc, she’s not YOUR teenager and you are not her parent.

So, if you didn’t create the hurricane and you can’t control it, what can you do? Accept the reality of the hurricane, make as safe a place to shelter as you can and protect you and your kids in whatever way is in your control. And, just like a real hurricane, that tends to involve some grieving over what the hurricane has destroyed so far and some uncertainty over what you will rebuild on the other side.

Sounds as if you are currently under the same roof and I imagine that is very hard. Have you taken legal advice on your options about that? Any way you can get her to move out? Any disadvantage to you legally if you do so? Or any way to live more separately in your current house if it is big enough? Laws vary a lot on this particularly if you jointly own your home.

If you knew 100% that you are going to end up divorced, what would you do differently right now to protect your kids and yourself and your futures from the damaging effects of your wife’s current behaviour? And if you were going to start living day to day more as if you were already divorced, what might that look like? Any thoughts, big or small?

I’m so sorry. This experience and this season of your life sucks like a big sucky thing called Mr Suck. No way round that, I’m afraid. We get it, we survived it, some of us are still in it. But imho - like quite a lot of deeply sucky things in life - the only way out is through and that tends to require a certain embracing of the reality of the Big Suck.

Keep posting. Let us know how we can best support you as you go.

[Treasur]

Oh and a PS. Please don’t feel again that you need to apologise for your wife’s behaviour. Bc her behaviour is not your responsibility. Sounds like your MC had good boundaries and was quite experienced. Don’t know if you are seeing your own IC, or if that MC does individual work, but quite a lot of folks here have found it really helpful to have a safe space to think out loud. Well, other than here lol.

[Tailspin]

Thanks Treasur
You nailed everything in what you said.  At first my soul was crushed that the person I've done everything in my life for just felt it was ok to just stop communicating.  It's only when I read and learned about MLC did I finally begin to accept it and begin my own journey as a LBS.  It still really hurts at times though.  I am seeing a therapist and am lucky to have a great support network of family and friends.   
I have a lawyer now and am going through all the motions and gathering of paperwork.  Wife's lawyer said she wants it done ASAP which means nothing to me because I need to protect my kids and future.  Her family members have actually reached out and were very upset about everything.  They can't figure it out either. 
I have written a number of letters over the past few months (Due to her not speaking) and haven't even gotten a response.  None had any pressures as I read a lot about not coming across that way.  Never heard anything back on any of them.  It's hard being in a pattern like this.  The kids are confused too.  Very scared about the future and I can't blame them.  Life is going to be drastically different.
The one thing I can say is that my faith has greatly strengthened throughout this.  I have a greater understanding of so many thing because I was forced to view them through another prism.  I am thankful for that portion.  I know God has a plan for everyone.  Sometimes you can't see the bigger picture.  We live by God's timing and not our own. 

[Treasur]

There is something rather soul-crushing about being unseen and unheard and rejected seemingly for even just existing by the adult human you have perhaps shared most of yourself and maybe most of your adult life with. There’s a reason why solitary confinement is used as both punishment and torture, isn’t there?

Right now, your wife does not want to see or hear you or read your written thoughts, it seems. My h was much the same - tbh if he could have pressed a button and erased my existence, he might have done so. Or that’s how it felt. As if my existence irritated him and he saw absolutely not one scrap of value in me even as a human being, let alone as his partner of 20 years. Of course I have no way of knowing what he actually did think then, or thinks now, but that was the vibe oozing off him and how he behaved for a couple of years. It’s a very strange experience, isn’t it?

I remember that feeling of being so full of words and questions and feelings that felt as if they had no place to go. I wrote a lot in my journal (long since burnt) and in draft letters/emails that I wrote but never sent.(long since deleted). It helped me to be less exposed to his, idk, hatred? contempt?, and to spend time with other people who did seem to think I was a pretty nice egg all things considered!

[Tailspin]

Treasur
I'm so sorry for you.  It really sad that these folks act like this and discard us.  I will add you to my ever growing list of folks I pray for. 
Nothing seems to make sense to me or the kids.  I have over the past few months begun to feel bad for wife even with her cheating.   She's a lost a soul who's heading for real problems with a dirtbag boyfriend.   He's not leaving his wife and for some reason she's still going for it.  Imagine that...

[Treasur]

  Well, I never turn my nose up at prayers
But truthfully, I am no longer in need of them to the same degree. And my heart breaks a little for those of you who are still in the early stages bc I remember how truly awful it was. But there is an other side to it eventually and that’s part of the reason why I still show up here to support folks bc others did it for me. There’s something strangely lovely about virtual strangers showing up in your darkest days, I think, a little glimmer of hope that not all the world is unkind and that this time too shall pass (eventually) for you as it did for me and others here.

[Tailspin]

Amen sister.  It's appreciated.  Not many people know the struggles and sadness that MLC brings to the LBS and family.   I thought my case was unique with the no talking.  You made me feel better with your knowledge.   Who knows what the coming months will bring.   Just need to face it and accept knowing sometimes things weren't meant to be.  Thats the hard part. 

[FaithWalker]

I was also given the silent treatment a lot.  I felt irrelevant.  I know now that I matter and I'm not irrelevant.  It's hard to be ignored and discarded.  There was a quote that got to me a while back.  It crushed me, but the 2nd part helped me.

“To be loved but not known is comforting but superficial. To be known and not loved is our greatest fear. "

I feel like MLC did play out my biggest fear. 

The rest goes...
"But to be fully known and truly loved is, well, a lot like being loved by God. It is what we need more than anything. It liberates us from pretense, humbles us out of our self-righteousness, and fortifies us for any difficulty life can throw at us.”

That helped me.  Remembering that God knows me, all of me, the good and the bad, and still loves me, despite that has helped me regain my equilibrium.

[sachertorte]

I am so sorry you are going through this. You are not alone. Every single word you wrote, I could have and did write myself. And for the last 6.5 years have read thousands upon thousands of posts containing the exact fatal narrative.

Our teen daughter told me she was having thoughts of suicide. And this was 3 months before we told her we were divorcing. When I tried telling him that she wasn't doing well -- I naively thought I could convince him to rethink the divorce if he only saw the damage he was doing to her -- he told me, "I am feeling wonderful! I am totally free of this circle of depression you and DD are caught in." It felt like we were coming down with the Black Death and he was happy to be plague-free. We were his wife and only child!

And the crazy thing is, from his perspective, he probably did try to do something about that "depression circle" around our daughter. He tried spending more time with her and delayed telling her about the divorce. After he dropped that bomb she then told him she had thoughts of self-harm. He told her "we put people like you who complain while having a good life to work on farms back in my home country," took her on a 3-week trip to Europe (replete with looking up women for flings), came back and complained to me about our daughter refusing to talk to him the whole time, fought with OW1, dragged his feet a bit, then moved out finally.


And when covid hit he had DD come and tell me, "Mom, dad told me to tell you he can't honor the custody agreement and spend 50% time with me because he needs to spend more time with his new girlfriend (OW2, 1 year-relationship) and her two children." I thank God so much that I had the flexibility at work then to chauffeur her around, be at her beck and call, take all her rage and show her unadulterated love and devotion. I can't imagine what would have become of her if I was off gallivanting like he urged me to do (they always want to assuage their own guilt by telling you to go date.)

It's been 4 years since the divorce and we haven't lived in the same country for 3. He recently asked to meet me over coffee and I reluctantly did for our daughter's sake. Turns out OW2 has now been swapped for another gf (I shouldn't call them OWs because they came after the divorce began, but just for clarity's sake.) He was upset with OW2 for not wanting to move him into her place because her 16 year-old daughter did not feel safe; he felt she did not trust him. (I thought: dude, you had it too easy. I never dated all this time, so you were never subjected to the debacle of some shirtless guy traipsing past our teen child's bedroom door in the morning! But seriously, how can you possibly not see why your gf won't trust you with her daughter? It may seem grossly unfair, but if you are a cheater others, including your lover who also cheated on her own husband, start to assume the worst about you.)

At some point he turned to me and expressed surprise that I was so loyal. He knew I stood for him for 5 years. I don't think he ever truly knew me. I was and am always loyal. You can count on me. I don't think he knows what that means any more. He is surprised and taken aback when confronted with it.

The only feeling I had left was numbness when I heard him say that. Unforunately in LBS land that sometimes passes as the only possible feeling. My only comfort was that I have not let any of this change me, with God's help. And with his -- as formerly he was a loving and supportive spouse. I am still loyal -- to my convictions. I will not behave with meanness and rancor no matter what.

He said: I married the wrong person. (I think he's always terrified I would say something along those lines, so he says it first. Plus he genuinely believes I am to blame for everything. Then again, I feel he's to blame all too often, so maybe we are even on that lol)

I wrote once about the above happenings on Reddit, trying to ask what happened to the protective instincts men are supposed to possess. Incredulity greeted me. One guy wrote: "Like other comments have said, i have trouble figuring out if this is just a well-written joke or not. "

I am, again, so sorry you are caught up in this. It does get better. You and your children should find joy and peace. I have found them frequently, through the help of God. I wrote all of this to let you know that you are not to blame. Nobody deserves the above.

I wish you and your loved ones joy and peace. I pray for us all.

[sachertorte]

One last thought: They are able to be so cruel and detached because they are medicated by the infatuation of the affair. The neurochemical effect is like that of crack cocaine. It blocks out shame, guilt, pain and the ability for introspection. It doesn't excuse what they do, just sheds light on something that strikes the LBS and children as extraordinary.

[Tailspin]

Thankyou all for the personal stories and advise.  Very eye opening.  I really feel for all these stories.
The emotional detachment is truly hard to understand.  The marriage consular in our 1 on 1 session before the main session had asked me if I had ever cheated because she said there seemed to be an extreme anger towards me in her interview with my wife.  She asked my wife if she could share some things said and she said yes.  I explained I had never strayed and believed in marriage vows very seriously.  She went on to explain that the level of anger she saw was usually only at spouses who had been cheating.   Little did I know at the time but my wife had already started he affair months prior.  I had suspected something but didn't have proof yet. 
The other strange thing I saw and I know others here have mentioned it was the changing of the eye color.  When I first saw my wife remove her ring I asked what she was doing.  She didn't say anything and I told her how upsetting it was to me.  When I looked at her eyes they were shark grey when normally they are blue/green.  I had never seen that in all our years of marriage.  In all honesty, it freaked me out.  She said nothing in the end about it. 
My days are now just communicating with the kids when at home.  Wife won't even say good morning when I say it to her.  When she has something to tell me about picking something up or car issues she just texts me.  In the same house and she texts me.  So weird. 
I still care for her and told her I will stand till the end of marriage.  I realize over the past few months she has been trying to make me end the marriage.  I think she feels it would end her guilt.  She keeps saying "You should have seen my unhappiness" and "Why can't you understand I don't love you anymore".  She one time even said "I was stupid to marry a nice guy, I knew better".  No real understanding what that means.  Maybe that explains why she messing around with married jerk of a man.   

[xyzcf]

Good morning Tailspin and welcome to Hero's Spouse.

The similarities in our stories, the similarities in the changes that we see in our spouses strangely reassured me. This is not about me or our marriage. It is indeed a crisis that has many causes and is not at all understood or accepted by many in our world.

A neighbor of mine recently commented that in talking to my wife she seemed to have a teenager type mentality.  He said it was like speaking to a 15-year-old.

One theory that I feel fits is based upon Eric Erikson's Stages of Development. Something has happened perhaps during one of these stages of life that prevents them from accomplishing the tasks that are an important part of that stage. We often see behavior that is much younger than their chronological age, it's very common.

The change in eye color, anger and refusal to speak to us is also common.

It hurts ...it wounds us deeply...the spouse that we were joined to, the total trust in another human being is gone. There are consequences to our children, to other family members and friends and the world as we know it is blown apart...we can do nothing to stop the carnage.

Rejection, abandonment and betrayal, still painful for me years later.

Like you, my faith became stronger and I found peace and much gratitude for what I have in my life. When this first happened, a priest I turned to asked me to read  Luke 15:11-32, The Prodigal Son. That laid the foundation, and by God's grace......allowed me to enter into a relationship of unconditional and agape love for my husband.....following Our Lord's command to "love one another as I have loved you."

Many do not agree. But this has and does reasonate with my beliefs. I believe in the pathology of MLC...seeing the mess they make of their lives, their inability to heal relationships, the choices they make......something inside of them is very broken.

Life goes on, we heal, we grow and time passes...sometimes, in our grief, we don't fully live as we should.....it does take time to reorganize the life that we are living now.

I found the website Rejoice Ministries very helpful to me and the prayers of others...the angels who have been with me when I could barely breath.

We are here, this group are tremendously supportive and share their own personal stories in an effort to help others, to know that we are not alone in this.

As you read the stories and find others who share your beliefs, let it take you to a place of peace.... as you have stated:

I know God has a plan for everyone.  Sometimes you can't see the bigger picture.  We live by God's timing and not our own.

[sachertorte]

Tailspin, I hope this may help in whatever way possible. My daughter and I are very close, and she is a thoughtful, courageous, introspective, lovely young woman. As soon as she left therapy recently the self-harm thoughts did return; she told me, "mom, I feel that way when I recall yelling that I want to cut off your head." (She was terrified of ex abandoning her, so saved most of her anger to vent for me as she was sure I wouldn't bolt.)

I told her, "First of all, I vaguely recall this only now because you mention this. Secondly, I felt so happy and blessed you told me that. When you stonewalled me, I was utterly lost. I didn't know where you were emotionally and how I could reach you in that fog. When you told me things like those was when I could read you correctly. I thought: 'my child is in enormous pain, because she was the sweetest, most serene and affectionate 14 year-old before this. I don't have to do anything except accept and love her unconditionally.  So it literally was like walking into the base of a rainbow when you did that." She knew I don't lie.

She was slacking in college and listless. I visited her for a month, asked to go to class with her, and had lunch with her friends. We spent weekends sightseeing an old European city, eating dessert in bed, binge Netflix and hang out in cafes. She immediately found a job fair, went to class every day, and brightened so much I needed sunglasses to see   Those blasted thoughts have gone away.

We can't save anyone else in the world except, God willing, our children. I know I did, with her help. We are blessed.
Watch out for high-risk behavior. When I told ex about her saying "all men are trash" -- that accompanied her acting out -- ex said she'll get over it. He did not have the courage to look into it himself. He has stuck around and improved slowly over the years. It does mean a lot to her when he comes and spends time with her on her birthday. I reduced his guilt by putting on a good face and telling him there was nothing to forgive. YMMV.

About your ex's comment. Her self-esteem is abysmal. I might be wrong, but I think she meant she did not deserve a nice man. She knew she should not have wrecked your life. She has the emotional bandwidth of whatever mental age her trauma lands her at, as Treasur says, so whether she is capable of apologizing remains to be seen. I have never gotten one. But it sounds close to one. It all makes sense. They don't feel like they deserve us, I think. She was all along also terrified of being hurt, so if she'd married an abusive jerk she could have left him with less pain. Unfortunately, someone who feels they are worthless will treat their loved ones with the same disregard they feel they deserve, in such instances.

The fact that the counselor was so off in her diagnosis may well mean that we are a small subset of the divorce world. She was right if you flip the diagnosis, which means she hasn't seen this before? Or maybe she guessed the truth all along and, knowing the MLCer would never blame themselves, tried this angle to see if that might spur the MLCer's conscience, seeing that the innocent spouse was getting insult upon injury?

[Tailspin]

About your ex's comment. Her self-esteem is abysmal. I might be wrong, but I think she meant she did not deserve a nice man. She knew she should not have wrecked your life. She has the emotional bandwidth of whatever mental age her trauma lands her at, as Treasur says, so whether she is capable of apologizing remains to be seen. I have never gotten one. But it sounds close to one. It all makes sense. They don't feel like they deserve us, I think. She was all along also terrified of being hurt, so if she'd married an abusive jerk she could have left him with less pain. Unfortunately, someone who feels they are worthless will treat their loved ones with the same disregard they feel they deserve, in such instances.

This is an aspect I never thought of.  After giving your heart and soul to someone you hope that there can be a real effort to save things and make things work.  With MLC you don't get that chance.  They determine that you are the reason for the internal pain.  That's the closure I'll never have.  I really wanted to know we exhausted every avenue to make things good.  Instead, she's fallen for a man who has given her nothing but attention. 

[Tailspin]

One last thought: They are able to be so cruel and detached because they are medicated by the infatuation of the affair. The neurochemical effect is like that of crack cocaine. It blocks out shame, guilt, pain and the ability for introspection. It doesn't excuse what they do, just sheds light on something that strikes the LBS and children as extraordinary.

This is such a true statement.  Painfully true. 

[Tailspin]

I think the most important thing I learned from my whole experience so far is that we have to accept our situation.  At first, I fought it and tried to talk things out and learn why it was all happening.  This was when I didn't know what MLC really was.  When I found this site and Heart's blessings I read so much and absorbed a whole lot but admittingly still thought my situation could be different.  I now understand that the advice here was always right.   Letting go was truly one of the hardest things I ever had to do.  I still struggle with at times now but have gotten better.  HB had an article entitled "Let Them Go!!!" and it really hit hard.  Unless I let that emotional rope go, I realized I would never start my own healing.
I live my own life now with my kids in the same house as she continues to plan her exit and divorce.  There will be no changing her mind now and her OM is her focus right now. 
I feel bad for her as her depression and internal strife are ruining her.  The focus on her appearance has become so obsessive that is it hurting her as she's trying to fight the reality that we are getting older and that doesn't stop.  I wish she would come back to church with me and the kids.  I wish she would see what the family is feeling.  I know she can't right now. 

[Happylight]

I just found her page.  Thanks for the information.  I have been looking at Heart's Blessings page and it's been a real God send.

I have found a lot of understanding through Heart's Blessings stuff as well.  Her son also published a book of her writings after her death.  I recommend it as well!

[Tailspin]

Another question I have is related to my family relations.  My family knows my wife has filed for divorce and while they are very upset and sad my wife still thinks they are her best friends.  It's like all the hate she has for me doesn't translate to my direct family.  My family is polite and remains mostly quite as they are upset with her antics.  Is this common?  My wife is acting like everything is fine with them. 

[MadLuv]

Honestly they dont want anything to change except us, so I am
Not surprised she is acting normal with others and your family. They just can’t fathom the consequences to come. Another thing is once they male the decision to leave they is a long relief stage where they are just so relieved they finally made the decision they have thought of for so long. She is convinced her life will be better without you. Let her see if it is.

[Standing Strong]

Hey TS,

Just reading your story...... I'm sorry she filed..... very common.
Letting go is a long journey, be patient with yourself.... very fragile time.

You're going on 11 months right now?

-SS

[Tailspin]

Honestly they dont want anything to change except us, so I am
Not surprised she is acting normal with others and your family

It saddens me deeply that she sees me as the problem.  I would have gone to the end of the world for my family.  She has convinced herself that divorce will be rainbows and unicorns. 

Just reading your story...... I'm sorry she filed..... very common.
Letting go is a long journey, be patient with yourself.... very fragile time.
You're going on 11 months right now?

Almost to 11 months.  I can't believe the speed she is moving.  Letting go has been a journey that without the help of God I would have done for.  It has shaken my soul. 

[KayDee]

Another way to think about it is that she wants to run away from her current life. And you are such a huge and integral part of that. . Many people in this type of crisis abandon more than just the spouse, from what I see in RL and on here. Unhappy in this life, run to a happier life. Doesn't ever seem to work in the long term (wherever you go, there you are) but that's the impulse.  She'll will discover you are not the problem sooner of later, but you can't convince her. Stay strong, you will come through this.

[Tailspin]

Thanks for all the great info being provided.  It's really helpful and appreciated. 
Another thing I needed some clarity on was something I read that said a person in MLC often think you feel they same as they do.  Is this true?  I ask because on multiples occasions my wife has blurted out things like "Well you hate me", and "You don't love me anymore anyway, right?".  I have always gently said that I still care for her, and she never replies.  Should I say nothing?  Is it all a test?

[LC]

I’m not a an expert anywhere close to being one the the many wise and kind folks on here. I’m only 4 months in from BD.
I can say that for my H, all Empathy is completely gone. There is no recognition or ability to see another’s point of view. For them, there is only what they are feeling. From what I have been reading on this forum, it seems to be the standard for MLCers.  I’m finding it helpful to detach, instead of trying to climb into their head trying to understand why they say the things they do.  That said, I have to keep reminding myself to maintain detachment for my sanity.
So sorry you are going through this.

[MadLuv]

"Well you hate me", and "You don't love me anymore anyway, right?".

. They want to know we are still there, but honestly they don't deserve that reassurance. I think you can be kind. If it were me I would say , I don’t hate anyone and I am respecting your choice to make decisions on how you want to live your life.

[Evermore]

My xH was convinced that I was also ready to end the marriage. He was truly shocked at how devastated I was by his betrayal and abandonment. In his case I think it was the only way he could do what he did. He’s not a bad man and didn’t want to devastate me. He was just very unhappy with himself and thought a new life would solve all his unhappiness. It didn’t. But he had so so convinced that it would.

Having said that, as you will hear over and over here (and it really is the best advice), you can only control yourself and your own life going forward. So as hard as it is, keep bringing it back to that. It has taken me years (sorry!) to feel like I can consistently ‘bring it back to me’. So be kind to yourself. It’s completely normal for us to take a very long time to heal from this kind of life event. 

[Standing Strong]

Another thing I needed some clarity on was something I read that said a person in MLC often think you feel they same as they do.  Is this true?  I ask because on multiples occasions my wife has blurted out things like "Well you hate me", and "You don't love me anymore anyway, right?".  I have always gently said that I still care for her, and she never replies.  Should I say nothing?  Is it all a test?

Hi TS,
Yes this is true...... they do think you feel the same way..... and they are not able to separate their own feelings from yours: hence their feelings must also be your feelings.

-SS   

[Treasur]

Ironically, as they review their old marriage and seek more emotional detachment, a lot of LBS start googling ‘codependency’ and using it as a negative label about themselves. Whereas usually imho most LBS are not codependent so much as dealing with the severing of a deep attachment and grieving for it with a side dish of trauma response.

Quite a lot of MLCers however do seem to have a track record of a high ish level of codependency, both practically and emotionally. At the more extreme end, this tends to leave people unaware of where they end and others begin or that how they feel is how others feel. And vice versa. So, I suppose in happier days, we LBS were fantastic; in unhappy days, therefore, we must a) be the problem and b) feel similar to how they feel. And that can throw up some truly weird projections that leave most LBS scratching their heads. So, for instance, I remember my former h (who I’d just found out had stolen money from our accounts and had an ow) saying that he really wanted to talk to me but felt he couldn’t trust me……

Can’t see any problem with your quiet rebuttal as long as you do not expect it to have much effect on her thoughts or actions.

[Baxter1]

TS-

If it’s any consolation you are not alone in this. I got ILYB speech then it was silence. For about 8 months after BD she left the house. She would leave for days, partying line it was 1999. Trips, bars, going places she would have never gone in her previous life. Then I found out about the affair, it was all so devastating! The advice given by the vets here is so true:detach.
By that I mean don’t look at her behavior or worry about what she’s doing. Also the kids need you more than ever. After BD I was like a single dad, it was the worst but also the best since it brought be and my sons A LOT closer.
Good luck on this journey, know you’re not alone, it’s been 1.5 years for me and if we have a 1 minute conversation that’s a good day. Last thing the Hearts Blessings Book is the best, that and Kendas Detach and Thrive program have helped me (along with awesome people here too of course!)

[Tailspin]

The wealth of knowledge from experience is great.  I'm saddened by what has happened to everyone here but it at least let's me know that I'm not alone in my thoughts and experience.   
My wife's altered perception of our marriage really leaves me feeling low some days.  The not talking only adds to my heartache.  Detachment has helped emensely but there is still a sadness whenever I answer questions the kids have about what will be happening and iving arrangements.   
There are days I feel like just giving in and being done standing hecause I feel no emotions ever anymore from her.  Her hurtful words strike at my soul when she justifies her bad behavior.   I always seem to come back here to understand it's all part of the process.   I can't  say I ever stopped loving her even though the roughest days.  Just hurts and everyone says to be done with her.

[Tailspin]

It's very interesting to hear things that people in MLC believe and say.  It's almost a distorted logic that their brains seems to make sense of.  I was looking back at some journal notes from my ongoing journey and I saw something I wrote about 4 months after BD.  Wife had said to me she wanted to get moving with the divorce and that we could still do all the holidays together as a family afterward.  She even said she could come to the house to cook dinners for the kids and be out before I came home from work so it would be like nothing changed.  Looking around here I see many people have stories like this.  Gives real insight to how MLC distorts world views and dynamics. 

[UrsaMajor]

Oh yes, the good old "We'll all be BFF's and just like a normal family - just we'll be divorced" nonsense. I got that too..... My reply was possibly a little bit harsher than yours..... "I don't have friends that I allow to treat me the way you have treated me since BD." <smh>  Se didn't like that answer very much.... Gee.... Imagine my surprise.... 

[FaithWalker]

Yes, very distorted.  I got the "you'll always be an <<<insert surname here>>> as if nothing would change in my family dynamics with in-laws etc.  "No, MLCer, your choice to divorce me totally changes things."  I did choose to keep that surname because my kids have that surname too, but I wanted to say "You don't know if I will always be an <<<insert surname>>>, if I get re-married or choose to go back to my maiden name, that's really nunya"

[Evermore]

Oh yeah, I completely get ya on the strangeness of them thinking things will continue on as they were. After we had sold our house and I moved (with one of our daughters) into the little rental house we had built next door, xH moved all his 'shed stuff' from the old house into the 'new house' shed and set it up as though it was his new shed. He put the shadow board up behind the workbench, arranged all his tools on it, set everything up in the shelving, talked about getting the power put on so he had a light over the workbench. So so weird. 5 years later it's all still just like that (quite soon that might be changing but that's another story).

[LBSinUSA]

I got the whole "Oh well still do family trips to Disney and such" talk myself. 

My reaction was "Are you out of your f***** mind?  Do you have any conception of how insane that sounds?" 

[xyzcf]

There are many ways to interact with the MLCer and yes, some of that includes family vacations together. We have done it several times and will continue to do so. I know others who have as well.

I do not see us as “ friends” . I do not ask him for any help or advice. I am cautious around him and it’s not like friendships I have with others.

When we are away, people would never know that we were not a couple.

This is not a “ normal” breakup, what ever that is.  If you think MLC  is a real thing, you might be more inclined to accept them in this state and allow them to be included with family times..vacations and holidays such as Christmas included.

[Tailspin]

This is not a “ normal” breakup, what ever that is.  If you think MLC  is a real thing, you might be more inclined to accept them in this state and allow them to be included with family times..vacations and holidays such as Christmas included.

I see your point there.  My main issue is that I have no interaction with my wife as she 100 percent ignores me and avoids me in the same house with our kids.  So having that, I couldn't understand how she thought we can do Xmas together.  Add the adultery in there and I really can't see how this works.  You are a better person than me.  I accept her MLC and that she filed for divorce at this point, but I personally can't do holidays with someone acting like this.
Christmas last year (Few months after BD) was awkward.  She had said she didn't want to exchange gifts with each other.  She was cold and made it a point to not take any family photos.  She took a few pics of the kids and the dog.  She then posted on FB of her and the kids.  She wanted to portray the life as a single mom while married.  So weird. 

[xyzcf]

I understand. She is living in the same house and totally ignoring you... after BD, my husband lived in foreign countries. The first Christmas after BD was horrible, he wasn't with us the 2nd and third...but then he called my daughter up the next year, a few days before Christmas  crying, he had no place to go. So we included him.

Our daughter also lives in another country. He was all over the world at that time and it made sense for us to be together at Christmas, logically it would not have been easy to split time with her ...so there were some situational reasons why this started.

He's grown closer and has always remained in touch with me.  I healed and became less triggered by his presence. To have family time together made sense and so we started taking our daughter and husband away on vacation.

He doesn't want to be married to me ...but he seems to still want me somehow in his life. There are women I am sure, but no one that he is with on a regular basis, no one he has introduced to our daughter.

It's not for everyone, I just wanted people here to know that it is possible to include them in your life if that makes sense.

It is as you said "weird"...the whole thing is weird. You just cannot make this up.

I don't think that either the MLCer or LBSer have an easy time, the crisis ruins so very much that was good and beautiful...tragic really. What just popped into my head, was a poster I had in my room when I was a teenager...crazy how thoughts end up there...it read

"What though the radiance that was once so bright, be now forever taken from my sight. Though nothing can bring back the hour of splendor in the grass, of glory in the flower; We will grieve not, rather find strength in what remains behind."  William Wordsworth

LOL, I also had a poster with a cat hanging from a bar that said "hang in there baby!"

Sorry, these thoughts just popped into my head.

I am not a better person than you or anyone else. I do live my faith which has become stronger through this ....and Christ tells us we must love one another as I have loved you...and that includes your enemies and those who hurt you...and that is what guides me.

Adultery is horrific....and very difficult to live through. It also seems that this is a "symptom" of their crisis and that the OW/OM really are not anything special to them. I just read an article in the newspaper of surviving adultery so that part might not be as significant if they ever get through their crisis...but it is something that will be forever etched on our hearts.

I always have and tell others, follow your own inner voice...you know what is best for you and for your family.

[Tailspin]

I am not a better person than you or anyone else. I do live my faith which has become stronger through this ....and Christ tells us we must love one another as I have loved you...and that includes your enemies and those who hurt you...and that is what guides me.

XYZCF - This is what I aspire to live to.  It's hard at times and I know it's the right thing.  I have learned to hold back some angry thoughts and things I wanted to say because I think that this is the way God wants us to live. 

[Tailspin]

So, I see many folks here had the same experience of their spouse not speaking to them anymore.  Any recommendations on how to handle the question of why when asked by the kids?  My kids continue to ask, and I say, "Mommy is going through something right now".  Lately that doesn't satisfy their need to understand.  They are too young to understand MLC. 

[sachertorte]

In retrospect, one big reason my xH won't speak to me was he knew how deeply in love and attached I was. He was right in that any scrap of attention he accorded me just fed my hope. He was terrified that this would make me harder to divorce, and more viciously vindictive once I came to accept reality, with the love turning into hatred.

(Little did he know me. But then again, as someone who later on admitted to me was a control freak (without the least bit prompting from me) he could not see things any other way. I think it must be hard to be that way.)

I don't know what the solution is there, except that it helps to know their motivation.

With regard to telling our kids, I told my teen daughter "Dad and I are both doing great things and modeling good behavior. He wants to explore new vistas and have the courage to venture into the big wide world, and I want to hold on to familiar and beloved ones, and have the resolve to embrace my convictions." This proved to help sustain their relationship, as I think he could not bear the guilt of her seeing him as abandoning his family for selfish reasons.

However, at least my daughter was already 15. What I just said may hurt your kids deeply, since no pursuit of any life goal by a parent can be justified when the they pay the price of being left at such a young age. You may want to consult therapists and pastors/priests? Sorry this is so hard. Hugs.

[Treasur]

So, I see many folks here had the same experience of their spouse not speaking to them anymore.  Any recommendations on how to handle the question of why when asked by the kids?  My kids continue to ask, and I say, "Mommy is going through something right now".  Lately that doesn't satisfy their need to understand.  They are too young to understand MLC.

How old are your kids?
Forgive me, I can’t recall in your situation, but has your wife actually filed for divorce? And if so, do your kids know that is happening?

Imho one of the transitions that LBS make is when we stop describing to others what our MLC spouse is thinking. Partly bc it’s no longer our job to do so. Mostly tbh bc we don’t/can’t know.

What questions are they asking you?
And do you know some of the answers yet? Or not bc it is too early to know?
Tbh kids tend to ask questions in a way that often tells you what they want and need to know, and often (bc they are kids) that is more about how their lives will be affected…..where they live, school, what will stay the same, what might change etc etc.

Again jmo, but for big and small humans, the root is about the need to feel safe, I think. And to know that it isn’t your fault that this bad thing is happening.
What CAN you tell them that you DO know to be the truth?
Bc again jmo, but in confusing and uncertain times, the factual truth matters a great deal. It’s how we get a sense of solid ground under our feet, even if we don’t like the ground. It’s why gaslighting (statements that fly in the face of what we see and hear for ourselves) is so destabilising. And it would be easy I’d imagine as a normal protective parent in a far from normal situation to inadvertently do that…to say mummy loves them when she doesn’t act like it, to say that more bad things won’t happen when you can’t know yet, to say you won’t be getting divorced if it’s possible that you might.

So I would tell them the age appropriate facts the best way you can. Without embroidery and without claiming to know or understand things you don’t/can’t or needing them to see things exactly the way you see them. And that probably excludes what mummy is thinking or planning to do or why she is doing it  (only mummy can answer those questions and she may not want to do so and may lie of course, and you can’t control that). Can be useful, based on others experience here, to get advise from an IC who works with kids that age…..have you looked into that?

[Tailspin]

@Treasur - The kids are 14 and 11.  The main questions they ask relate to my wife not even acknowledging me and her anger towards me.  We have told them about the divorce and my younger son took it harder.  My older daughter was upset but said she knew it was coming when my wife stopped speaking to me.  They have a hard time (As do I) as to how this all happened when our family was so close and loving.  It was like a switch went off and this new anger and hatred invaded our home.  I have been taking the method that you stated about having them ask mommy directly.  She never really answers them.  She mainly changes the subject. 

In retrospect, one big reason my xH won't speak to me was he knew how deeply in love and attached I was. He was right in that any scrap of attention he accorded me just fed my hope. He was terrified that this would make me harder to divorce, and more viciously vindictive once I came to accept reality, with the love turning into hatred.

This is very insightful as I'm thinking this may be what my wife is feeling.  I told her that I will stand for our marriage till the end and she got really mad at that.  She told me a dozen times "I don't love you, and you need to accept that".  That really hurt.  I simply responded that I heard you the first time and there is no need to keep saying it. 

[Tailspin]

So, a bit of journaling

This weekend was my son's baseball tournament that we had months ago planned to be our vacation as there was an amusement park nearby and plenty of activities in the area.  My wife 2 weeks before leaving to go had informed me that she booked her own room.   I figured she would do something like that.  So 3 days before we leave, she told the kids that she would be going herself (own car) and only going for the baseball games and not anything else.  My kids were really upset.  They have been looking fwd to this trip as they haven't done anything else this summer besides the day trips I have done with them. 
I did the amusement park for 2 days with the kids myself and we did meet up with a lot of the other families that had the same idea.  My wife made it the night before the game and decided to go to dinner with the other families and not me and the kids.  That really angered my kids.  The following 2 days my wife ignored me in front of the team and barely interacted with the kids.  The alienator is a dad of one of the other kids and she seemed very focused on him. 
We left yesterday to come home and my wife informed me she was staying another day.  My son stayed with her.  I asked why she was staying and she didn't really give any real answer.  I suspect the alienator was staying another day too....Ughhhh  Mind you, he is married too.  He didn't bring his wife. 
I have learned in my life that praying for people who do you wrong is one of the hardest things to do.  I know it's the right thing and I know we have to understand that MLC makes folks into people we never imagined they could become.  It's still hard emotionally.
I opened my email this morning and my lawyer said that my wife's attorney is very demanding about getting things moving faster.  I said that I am gathering everything and just because she is in a rush to start her new life doesn't mean that I'm cheating myself financially.  She's so desperate to get out but doesn't make much money so she needs alimony and child support to start her "new" life. 

[Treasur]

Well, you can’t control her choices or her wishes, can you?
She, like many other disordered folks, will just have to learn that the world - and you - don’t just jump into action to give her what she wants pronto simply bc she wants it.

But I’m sorry - and it does rather show you that her focus is not on her kids which is MLC normal, of course. And all the more reason to do whatever you need to do to protect yourself and your kids the best you can.

I suspect in some ways life will get easier for you and the kids when/if she moves out. Their self-centredness and lack of empathy for others can be a bit breathtaking, can’t it? Fwiw, keep going, let your lawyer do their work and act as a buffer and (jmo) don’t say anymore to her about how you feel. Partly bc it’s pointless and partly bc it feeds her narrative about you as an irritating barrier to her ‘magic happy’ 🙄

Glad you had some good time with your kids - her loss.

[Tailspin]

Fwiw, keep going, let your lawyer do their work and act as a buffer and (jmo) don’t say anymore to her about how you feel. Partly bc it’s pointless and partly bc it feeds her narrative about you as an irritating barrier to her ‘magic happy’ 🙄

The past month I don't even try to have small chit chat anymore.  I used to do it just to let her know I still value her.  Lately I stopped because it has become hard on me to talk to someone who acts like I drowned their dog.  I deeply, down in my soul worry that she will think I don't care about her but I also know it means nothing to her so it's worthless.  It's a chaotic game with no real or sensible rules.  As I approach the 1 year mark since bomb I have reflected on everything from the start till now and I see how much I have grown and learned.  Unfortunately, she has regressed further.  Saddest part is that I was telling my brother that the past year has been nothing but lies on her part with the affair, filing for divorce, where she's going, and any other day to day issue.  This was not the person I once knew.  I always trusted her and now I believe zero of what she says. 

[Tailspin]

It's very interesting that over the past 2 weeks my wife's anger has grown even more intense the more I ignore her nonsense and childish anger.  When I'm in a good mood and horsing around with the kids she storms off and pouts like a child.  This living together while waiting for the divorce proceedings is really bothering her now.  I think she may be mad the OM is married and not leaving his wife.  Not sure.  I know he feeds her head big time with massive attention.  Sadly, I see her on the phone sexting with him even while our kids are in the same room.  It's an obsession at this point.
In all honesty I was kind of hoping she would move out early just to give the family a mental break from the anger and bizarre outbursts.  Unfortunately, she needs the alimony for the new life she's planning.  She refuses to get a better job that pays well and would rather see how alimony works.  Ughhh..
It's like living with a 15-year-old who's mad at her parents all the time.  This is not the person I once knew. 

[UrsaMajor]

Sounds like your SBTXMLCW and my MLCxW both attracted the same type of OM - a player who saw a MILF. If the script runs the same way, once your MLCSTBxW has moved to xW status, OM will vanish because she will be putting pressure on him to either go big or go home.... and then she will be massively disappointed as she realizes that her Schmoopie-pie just wanted a side piece.... and he will be safely at home with W and his kids with HIS W none the wiser  (or not caring if he plays around).

You can expect her Monster to ramp up even more as the affair comes to its bitter conclusion.... After all, it MUST be your fault that OM didn't leave his family, right? 

[FrenchHusband]

Sadly, I see her on the phone sexting with him even while our kids are in the same room.  It's an obsession at this point.

So she is sending sex messages in the presence while the kids are here ? sounds to me a very teenage-ish way to seek attention, the attention you are currently not giving to her.

From my opinion you have 2 options :
- set up boundaries if you think you must protect your children
- ignore it (my preferred option)

Monster does not like to be ignored, but as we say here, arguing alone does not last long. I suspect the sexting may be a trick to try to make you react, I had same kind of suspicions when the beeper of W's phone was turned on for some texts. I chose to ignore the annoying beeps and it stopped after a few days.

[Tailspin]

Sounds like your SBTXMLCW and my MLCxW both attracted the same type of OM - a player who saw a MILF. If the script runs the same way, once your MLCSTBxW has moved to xW status, OM will vanish because she will be putting pressure on him to either go big or go home.... and then she will be massively disappointed as she realizes that her Schmoopie-pie just wanted a side piece.... and he will be safely at home with W and his kids with HIS W none the wiser  (or not caring if he plays around).

It certainly seems it...I guess they all want to be part of the same movie...Sorry for your story.  It really stinks we get treated like this.

For those of you who have been standing strong have an advice or opinions on the feelings of giving up.  I have stood strong for close to a year now and for some reason right now I feel my will to keep my marriage fading.  I still care for my wife but the worsening anger, her driving the divorce, the affair, living as a teenager, and disrespect to the family is really weighing on me.  I know people say it cycles but for some reason I think there's no hope at this point.  I don't want to surrender but does there come a point where all hope is truly lost.  I struggle with this.  I try to not listen to those voices who haven't understood what MLC is.  I know they all mean so well in their advice. 

[Tailspin]

Monster does not like to be ignored, but as we say here, arguing alone does not last long. I suspect the sexting may be a trick to try to make you react, I had same kind of suspicions when the beeper of W's phone was turned on for some texts. I chose to ignore the annoying beeps and it stopped after a few days.

I think you're right on this.  The monstering is getting worse the more I fully detach from the antics and drama.

[zartheit]

For those of you who have been standing strong have an advice or opinions on the feelings of giving up.  I have stood strong for close to a year now and for some reason right now I feel my will to keep my marriage fading.  I still care for my wife but the worsening anger, her driving the divorce, the affair, living as a teenager, and disrespect to the family is really weighing on me.  I know people say it cycles but for some reason I think there's no hope at this point.  I don't want to surrender but does there come a point where all hope is truly lost.  I struggle with this.  I try to not listen to those voices who haven't understood what MLC is.  I know they all mean so well in their advice.

I want to start by first pointing out how impressive it is that you have had someone you love turn their back on you (in SPECTACULAR fashion) and your response is to understand and empathize with their position. You've spent almost a full year in the lab working on yourself and your understanding of the human condition. That is pretty remarkable when you really think of it. I hope you feel pride in that response.

For myself, I found that using my ex-wife as a signal for ANYTHING was a losing game. Her opinion, after bomb drop at least, was worse than meaningless, it was actively harmful to me. I began to start framing everything in terms of myself: my values, my desires, my goals. I stood for my marriage (i.e., didn't file for divorce) because of MYSELF and it had nothing to do with my ex-wife. I looked at the situation I found myself in and tried on various lenses of interpretation until I found one that resonated with me. I began to look at my dissolving relationship NOT as something to "win" or "lose" but as a gym. Every day I would wake up and see what I was made of. The persistence was about understanding me. My limits, my expectations, my hopes, my beliefs. When I could orient myself then I began to work to become that.

That sounds all very clear and direct, so let me assure you it wasn't It was probably the messiest thing I've ever gone through. One thing that made it much harder than it needed to be for me was that I couldn't understand that my ex-wife was CHOOSING this. Without getting into the war that may have been happening in her head, externally she was making a series of choices that would inevitably lead to exactly where they did. There was, in the end, nothing I could do BUT surrender. I had no control over her actions and her actions said nothing about me as a person. I could be willing to work on "us" but if she isn't then we will decay. I had to accept that. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't understand what was wrong or why it couldn't be resolved. Accepting what is happening doesn't mean you can't desire reconciliation, all it means is that you aren't trying to stop the waves from washing up on the shore.

A metaphor that helped me was of a man holding something tightly in his fist. He was terrified that letting go just meant it dropping on the floor. If he rotated his fist such that his palm was facing the sky, then letting go allowed it to rest in his hand. He opens it. It simply sits there. Maybe not the most dramatic image, but it helped convey to me that "letting go" doesn't mean discarding, turning my back on, or becoming bitter.

This is all incredibly challenging. You're doing your best and all of your efforts will radiate out into every interaction you have in the world.

[Treasur]

I want to say that how you feel is pretty normal in the LBS journey. Most LBS come here wanting to Stand, almost perhaps as a kind of survival mode and looking for hope that understanding MLC will help them do that, that their story will be different from most here perhaps.  It’s pretty normal too that somewhere around the 1-2 year mark, as events take their toll, most question it. Reality bites hard, doesn’t it?

Imho this is the point when Standing gets real as a concept and each person starts to work out for themselves what Standing means to YOU. And people find different answers to that and make different choices. Which is ok too, you’ll get no judgement about that here.

I think most of us tussle with the same questions….
Some version of ‘if I unhook my hopes and expectations from my marriage, where does that leave me? What do I hope for other than a restored marriage as I can’t control that? What does Standing mean in my life as it currently is? Or not? And what does that mean in terms of how I act? How do I see myself and my spouse after what has happened? How do I see marriage? Etc etc 😝’

It’s not my place to tell you what you should think or do about any of those questions - they are intensely personal, aren’t they? And as you can see here, different people come up with different answers. Which is ok too. And they cycle and change their mind and evolve as events unfold. All ok; you’ll get no judgement here as I said bc we understand that these are not easy questions and don’t come with cookie cutter answers.

All I would encourage you to do is let the questions sit with you and swirl around for a while until you start to feel your own answers. And perhaps ask yourself why - if it is so - you feel a need to have answers to those questions now, if something has changed for you or is about to change which makes that feel more urgent. I would also encourage you to be as kind to yourself as you can and recognise that how you have been living since BD takes a toll. At best, it’s an unknown playing field; at worst it’s a far from normal dollop of emotional abuse. And few of us do our best thinking in those circumstances.

And the sun will still rise tomorrow while you are thinking about these questions, your kids will still giggle and snuggle, there are still joys in life to engage with while you let yourself work out what you think and want.

[FaithWalker]

Every day I would wake up and see what I was made of. The persistence was about understanding me. My limits, my expectations, my hopes, my beliefs. When I could orient myself then I began to work to become that.

That sounds all very clear and direct, so let me assure you it wasn't It was probably the messiest thing I've ever gone through. One thing that made it much harder than it needed to be for me was that I couldn't understand that my ex-wife was CHOOSING this. Without getting into the war that may have been happening in her head, externally she was making a series of choices that would inevitably lead to exactly where they did. There was, in the end, nothing I could do BUT surrender. I had no control over her actions and her actions said nothing about me as a person. I could be willing to work on "us" but if she isn't then we will decay. I had to accept that. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't understand what was wrong or why it couldn't be resolved. Accepting what is happening doesn't mean you can't desire reconciliation, all it means is that you aren't trying to stop the waves from washing up on the shore.

This absolutely resonated with me looking back at my own journey.

[Tailspin]

For myself, I found that using my ex-wife as a signal for ANYTHING was a losing game. Her opinion, after bomb drop at least, was worse than meaningless, it was actively harmful to me. I began to start framing everything in terms of myself: my values, my desires, my goals. I stood for my marriage (i.e., didn't file for divorce) because of MYSELF and it had nothing to do with my ex-wife. I looked at the situation I found myself in and tried on various lenses of interpretation until I found one that resonated with me. I began to look at my dissolving relationship NOT as something to "win" or "lose" but as a gym. Every day I would wake up and see what I was made of. The persistence was about understanding me. My limits, my expectations, my hopes, my beliefs. When I could orient myself then I began to work to become that.

That's a very interesting perspective.  Thanks for sharing that.  I guess a lot of my struggle is that there is a moving goal post the the further this goes down the road.  At first I wanted my old marriage back but now I see that's never going to happen.  I wonder if my wife would ever be the same person who was caring.  My mind tells me things like "Maybe this is who she really is" sometimes.  I don't want to believe that, but who knows.  The awful things she has said over this past year make my stomach hurt when I think about them.

I think most of us tussle with the same questions….
Some version of ‘if I unhook my hopes and expectations from my marriage, where does that leave me? What do I hope for other than a restored marriage as I can’t control that? What does Standing mean in my life as it currently is? Or not? And what does that mean in terms of how I act? How do I see myself and my spouse after what has happened? How do I see marriage? Etc etc 😝’

This really sums it up.  The questioning of it all and what I have for my expectations.  Right now my heart says one thing and my mind says something different.  The rational is fighting with the emotional.  I think you're right in that I need to sit on it and think about it. 

[MadLuv]

I think a point that we all realize later rather than sooner is the fact that no matter what the old marriage and relationship and person is gone. Not just the MLCer but the LBS.  We cling so hard for the life we had, but no matter how it ends that is over. Somehow when you really grasp that it changes a lot. It makes it a bit easier to move forward and let things unfold. I know the first year for me was just horrific clinging to the past, second year was trying to fully understand what happened, third year the my own acceptance of the current situation was clear and now in the 4th year  realizing this will be with me forever, but that I truly had a life before and I will have a life after. I wanted a friendship at the very least, but now I don't care if I ever speak to him again. Not out of anger, but just to much damage and lack of common decency toward me. It all depends on the amount of lies, betrayal, manipulation that takes place and how far they leap into oblivion. Whatever your journey it does evolve and you do see things more clearly on what your own choice will be. 

[Tailspin]

I truly marvel at the strange behavior at times of my wife.  This weekend I decided to go see my parents and have lunch with them.  My wife was heading with the kids to a friend's house for a Labor Day party that we usually always go to every year.  I decided not to attend as I really didn't want to because it would be a party where my wife would simply ignore me and not speak to me.  Saw no real purpose.  My wife got mad and said "Why aren't you coming"?  I replied "Why? You need to ignore me at other places too?"  She completely lost it and said I should be doing it for the kids and a whole bunch of other nonsense.  To add to the reason, I didn't go is because the women whose house it is covered for my wife meeting her OM.  Caught her at a store when my wife said she was out to dinner with her.  She didn't see me.  LOL
The person in MLC truly has some strange thoughts.  Why would a person be mad at this if they are doing all that they are doing?  It's like she feels cheating is ok but not but me going to a party is not.  The rest of weekend she monstered even more.  Why?  You can't wait for the divorce but expect me to sit and obey.  Glad I spent time with my parents.  They are older and not in the best health. 
I used to see moments of my real wife but lately those are getting more rare. 

[FaithWalker]

It is so bizarre isn't it?  My H's behavior after BD was also bizarre.  Definitely some actions he did were in direct conflict with his other actions of filing for a divorce.  He didn't seem to understand that he had fired me as a wife.

[Tailspin]

It is so bizarre isn't it?  My H's behavior after BD was also bizarre.  Definitely some actions he did were in direct conflict with his other actions of filing for a divorce.  He didn't seem to understand that he had fired me as a wife.

FW, it really is bazaar.  My wife used to say "We will be divorced but we can still do holidays and vacations together as a family".  Meanwhile she doesn't speak with me or even acknowledge me.  I look back at this sometimes and laugh.  What a world to be living in. 

[UrsaMajor]

It is so bizarre isn't it?  My H's behavior after BD was also bizarre.  Definitely some actions he did were in direct conflict with his other actions of filing for a divorce.  He didn't seem to understand that he had fired me as a wife.

FW, it really is bazaar.  My wife used to say "We will be divorced but we can still do holidays and vacations together as a family". 

I got that too ( "Oh we can be a big happy family on vacations and holidays and such but we'll just be divorced" - like on WHAT planet is this even a thing?) plus requests to come and help her with things in her new apartment I mean, seriously? Like FW said - "Lady, you fired me from the H job so you'll need to find someone else to do those jobs...."  Entitled much lately?

[Tailspin]

Some journaling. 
So my wife secretly found a new place to live and now is pressuring me to accelerate the divorce because she needs cash.  She actually told her lawyer that it's hard to live in the house together and very stressful.  Meanwhile she's partying every weekend, having an affair, sneaking off, and not speaking AT ALL to me.  Makes me laugh honesty.  I told her she can leave whenever she wants and that I am taking my time to make sure I'm protected.  I said she can move any time she wants. 
I told my lawyer if she wants out she has to remove the my car insurance from her car because I am not assuming her risk as she boozes up a lot lately and stays out to the wee hours.  I don't want the liability.  This annoyed my wife.  Sorry, you don't write the rules.
Her desperation to leave is driving her anger more and more.  Everything is lie now and even my kids see it.  The other day she stormed out and said she needed to go to the store for laundry detergent.  There was a full bottle when I checked downstairs.  She just had to go talk to the OM.  Sad part for her is that he is not leaving his wife, and I really think she doesn't see it. 
People, when people on this site say don't believe anything they say you really need to accept that.  I can honestly say I don't know any truth in her anymore. 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

So my wife secretly found a new place to live and now is pressuring me to accelerate the divorce because she needs cash.  She actually told her lawyer that it's hard to live in the house together and very stressful.

Yes, you can tell your own lawyer that maybe why she is so stressed is due to the heavy drinking and spending a lot of time with a married man. All that sneaking around sure is stressful.

I told my lawyer if she wants out she has to remove the my car insurance from her car because I am not assuming her risk as she boozes up a lot lately and stays out to the wee hours.

Absolutely, you don't want your name on the title or on the insurance. You maybe on the hook if something happens. As soon as I paid off my son's car, I had my name removed from the title.

Yes, there lies become an issue and soon everyone sees it.

Sad part for her is that he is not leaving his wife, and I really think she doesn't see it.
People, when people on this site say don't believe anything they say you really need to accept that.  I can honestly say I don't know any truth in her anymore.

He sounds like such a great guy, a true keeper, a man of high virtues and a family man to sport.

Yes, it is unbelievable what they say and even more so in their actions as well.

Let her run and focus on you and your family. You are doing an awesome job. Remember the divorce is all business. Treat it as such and don't give anything that you don't have to give. It's her choice and she needs to deal with the consequences. Therefore, no soft landing.

Have an awesome day!

(((Ready)))

[Tailspin]

I was waiting for my daughter to get out of practice and she was really late.  So I started looking back at all the texts and emails from my wife in the weeks before bomb drop.  We are approaching the 1 year mark.  What I saw was really a text book lesson in MLC progression.  I had seen at first a person who admitted they felt weird about things lately but wanted to saw she still loved me and cherished our family.  Then then a few weeks later I saw a confusion about how she felt about life and she didn't want to feel that way.  Then I saw anger building until bomb drop.  There was an openness about everything at first and then this slide to total hate.  It broke my heart reliving all that.  I know I shouldn't do that and relive in the past.  My present situation is living with someone who truly hates my guts but doesn't say why.
Sorry to vent.  Just trying to get my own life back in order with the divorce proceedings, looking now for a 2nd job to start after the finalization, and dealing with 2 kids who are not understanding any of this.  I was a digit away from dialing the OM's wife the other day and tell her all about her dirtbag husbands antics and I decided not to.  Hearts Blessing page was right.  That's my wife's problem.  God sees everything. 

[MadLuv]

I may be in the minority on this, but I did the same. You want to try and make sense of it all and so you do what you can.  I also think you have to see it for what it is and sometimes that is looking back and actually seeing its through a different perspective. You have to feel the pain also to get to the other side.  That is something the MLCer doesn't do and why they are where they are.

[Tailspin]

  I also think you have to see it for what it is and sometimes that is looking back and actually seeing its through a different perspective. You have to feel the pain also to get to the other side.  That is something the MLCer doesn't do and why they are where they are.

I agree.  I make it a good 2 weeks getting stronger then I feel this immense sorrow and pain again.   It gets easier each time but sometimes the weight of it all really destroys me.  My marriage is ending in the coming months and I will be left only seeing my kids half time.  Just feels heavy. 

[FrenchHusband]

I may be in the minority on this, but I did the same. You want to try and make sense of it all and so you do what you can.  I also think you have to see it for what it is and sometimes that is looking back and actually seeing its through a different perspective. You have to feel the pain also to get to the other side.  That is something the MLCer doesn't do and why they are where they are.

If you are in the minority on this, I am in too  . Relive the past can become an issue if it becomes an obsession, but to do it one time or two is right IMO. In the first phase after BD we are broken, our world is shattered and we don't understand what happens. So we need to understand, even if it breaks our heart. Only after understanding we can accept the new reality IMHO.

@Tailspin : the detachment you are feeling is slow and steady. There will be ups and downs again, sure, but you are in the good way. You will continue to feel better and get stronger like we did.

[Tailspin]

@ French and MADLUV

I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who goes back to look at what happened.  Like FH said I guess as long as it doesn't consume you.  Steady progress forward isn't without pain.  My journey has been teaching me this.  I guess what really kills me is the seething anger I feel every day from the person who once meant the world to me.  I look back to see the wife who was once there but I can't see past the monster she became.  I know deep down in her she's a good person.  I know this is not the person I married.  Everything she once stood firmly against are now things she does. The lies, cheating, stealing, and anger towards faith are things I never thought I would see with her.   Her family has reached out to me asking why she is distant with them and I just tell them the truth.  I don't know. She only is friendly with folks who encourage the bad behavior. 

[MadLuv]

I also think anyone that continues a behavior for any length of time that goes against their core being does become that. If they don't want to break that and be accountable. When someone lies to you, they also lie to themselves. There is no way to do that and not degenerate themselves. Thats why this is all so unpredictable. How much damage have they done? Not just to their families, but themselves? How much inner strength do they have to get themselves out of it? That’s why they may do the same things, say the same things, but they are each unique and how they come through is unique as the crisis itself. We struggle so much because we are still the same and we just cane fathom how they are not. It’s a mind boggling situation to a degree of insanity at times. To say I felt unhinged by it in the early stages would not be an exaggeration.

[UrsaMajor]

Her family has reached out to me asking why she is distant with them and I just tell them the truth.  I don't know. She only is friendly with folks who encourage the bad behavior.

This is primarily because they need the affirmation of their enablers to continue. This affirmation is needed for the Mid-Lifer to justify their actions and to allow them to continue in their efforts to rewrite history in their own version that makes the LBS out to be the 2nd cousin of Satan who was the cause of every problem the Mid-Lifer EVER had in their ENTIRE lives.

The enablers are the rah-rah squad for the Mid-Lifer until they aren't anymore (which, for some, may be forever), the enablers, the encouragers, the ones that don't tell the Mid-Lifer to get a firetrucking clue of what they are doing, that tell them that what they are doing is causing their kids, their families, their relationships severe and possibly permanent damage. Anything or anyone that remotely reminds the Mid-Lifer of responsibility or accountability is to be ignored, ostracized or, in some cases, actively destroyed. 

[Tailspin]

I also think anyone that continues a behavior for any length of time that goes against their core being does become that. If they don't want to break that and be accountable. When someone lies to you, they also lie to themselves. There is no way to do that and not degenerate themselves. Thats why this is all so unpredictable. How much damage have they done? Not just to their families, but themselves? How much inner strength do they have to get themselves out of it? That’s why they may do the same things, say the same things, but they are each unique and how they come through is unique as the crisis itself. We struggle so much because we are still the same and we just cane fathom how they are not. It’s a mind boggling situation to a degree of insanity at times. To say I felt unhinged by it in the early stages would not be an exaggeration.

They continue on the path of destruction, and we watch it and live it.  It is mind-boggling like you said.  I guess I can't wrap my head around the "why".  I feel unhinged at times too.  There is no predictability in the behavior. 

The enablers are the rah-rah squad for the Mid-Lifer until they aren't anymore (which, for some, may be forever), the enablers, the encouragers, the ones that don't tell the Mid-Lifer to get a firetrucking clue of what they are doing, that tell them that what they are doing is causing their kids, their families, their relationships severe and possibly permanent damage. Anything or anyone that remotely reminds the Mid-Lifer of responsibility or accountability is to be ignored, ostracized or, in some cases, actively destroyed.

This rings so true.  The most stabile family members of my wife's family with the most moral clarity have been ignored when they call my wife.  It is so bad they have called me to see if she's around and alive because they used to talk to her a few times a month and now haven't heard from her for a year.  The only people my wife keeps in contact with are people of low morals.  One women herself is multiple times divorced and coaches her on how to get the most from divorce proceedings and even recommended ways to cheat and not get caught. 

[Tailspin]

I have a question about something I read a little while ago.  I wish I could find the article again.  I had read that the reason some folks in MLC act the way they do (Coldness) is because when some revert to their inner child where trauma occurred and they didn't know then. That's the reason they don't care about you.  Has anyone else read that? 

[UrsaMajor]

I have a question about something I read a little while ago.  I wish I could find the article again.  I had read that the reason some folks in MLC act the way they do (Coldness) is because when some revert to their inner child where trauma occurred and they didn't know then. That's the reason they don't care about you.  Has anyone else read that?

I can't say that I read anything like that but....

Some MLC'ers are cold, some are hot, some are cool, some are warm, some are monsters, some are vanishers, some cling like road tar on a hot day, some are like the Teflon Don and are as slippery as a greased pig...... Trying to pigeonhole an MLC'er and "why" they are reacting/acting the way they do is like trying to taste green with your elbow and just about as useful....

[Tailspin]

Trying to pigeonhole an MLC'er and "why" they are reacting/acting the way they do is like trying to taste green with your elbow and just about as useful....

I love that!!  LOL.  Classic!! 
I guess trying to put reason to behaviors is not a good idea.  This whole experience has made no sense. 
My wife is moving out in less than 2 weeks and has told the kids and not me.  She refuses to even look in my direction now. 

[Treasur]

Trying to pigeonhole an MLC'er and "why" they are reacting/acting the way they do is like trying to taste green with your elbow and just about as useful....

I love that!!  LOL.  Classic!! 
I guess trying to put reason to behaviors is not a good idea.  This whole experience has made no sense. 
My wife is moving out in less than 2 weeks and has told the kids and not me.  She refuses to even look in my direction now.

I imagine day to day life is going to feel easier in many ways when she does. Most of us could never imagine a time coming when we might feel that, but a number of us have felt that sense of relief bc what came before was so relentless.

I imagine too that, if your w follows the ol’ textbook play, it’s going to come as a bit of a shock when you’re not around to hate and blame but her life is still not magically happy in one bound…..

How are your kids doing?

[Tailspin]

I imagine day to day life is going to feel easier in many ways when she does. Most of us could never imagine a time coming when we might feel that, but a number of us have felt that sense of relief bc what came before was so relentless.

I imagine too that, if your w follows the ol’ textbook play, it’s going to come as a bit of a shock when you’re not around to hate and blame but her life is still not magically happy in one bound…..

How are your kids doing?

It's sad to say but at this point I look fwd to her leaving.  She's so angry and childish lately.  The latest has her stomping her feet when she gets mad.  I think there will be at least peace at night.  From what the kids say she will be there to have dinner with the kids and then leave to her own place until she settles in. 
My daughter has been handling things pretty good as she said she knew we were getting divorced when my wife stopped talking to me almost a year ago.  My son is trying to always ride the center and be with both parents equally.  He doesn't want to seem to take sides.  He has had a few real breakdowns.  The reality of the situation is that my wife doesn't give as much attention to my daughter because she'll be more vocal about wife's behavior.  That has upset my wife.  Nothing she said has been a lie though. 
The truth of it all is that I think my wife's limerence with her OM has taken over.  She has been obsessing over him and sneaking out more and more to be with "The love of her life".  The good old dopamine hits.  I can't imagine loving someone who's married while you're married yourself.   

[Tailspin]

Journaling.
So wife has begun to pack boxes for her move next weekend.  She only relays messages to me through the kids even though we live in the same house.  The not talking to me is exhausting at this point.  She's mad that I'm not agreeing to all she wants in regard to child custody and money.  My lawyer said her impatience must be causing her counsel so much heartburn.  She can't legally take joint items yet because there isn't an agreement in place.  I have no idea what is doing.  Her lawyer said to mine "She said it's a nightmare living there". 
I said in talking to my brother that even though she's done all this awful stuff I still actually feel bad for her.  I'm learning to genuinely forgive to move past this, but I feel bad for how broken she is.  It's no way to live.  Accepting that we can only control ourselves was my hardest lesson.  I don't like seeing her so angry and self-destructive but I can't change that. 
My hope is that once she moves, she's at least a slight bit better in dealing with the joint kid stuff.
As for me I'm looking for a 2nd job so I can keep my house.  I have a good job now but unfortunately with the alimony and child support laws I'll be hurting.  Good thing is I have multiple other skills I can make money with in relation to car repair and Maintenace. I also my work a night time shift at a big box store.  I spoke to a manager there and he said there are openings for any day.  I told the kids I might do that on the night I don't have them.
A new reality is coming and while I'm nervous about what it brings I know it needs to be done in terms of sharing kids and 2nd jobs.  This past year has been one of the hardest I ever had.  I made soooo many mistakes in dealing with MLC but I know we all have.  I hope to one day help others as much as I have been helped.

[Flummoxed]

Hi Tailspin,

From a fellow relative newbie, I just wanted to say that I find your growth journey very inspiring. You have made such fantastic strides over the past year- I hope I can reach a similar headspace in the near term.

Keep at it- you’ve got this! The unknown can be terrifying but one step at a time.

[Tailspin]

Hi Tailspin,

From a fellow relative newbie, I just wanted to say that I find your growth journey very inspiring. You have made such fantastic strides over the past year- I hope I can reach a similar headspace in the near term.

Keep at it- you’ve got this! The unknown can be terrifying but one step at a time.

Thanks.  Every step forward was with pain but I'm getting there.  I still love her even though I'm an enemy in her eyes right now.  Faith in God's plan is how I come to understand all this. 
Everyone on this site has offered such great insight and info.  I used to fight, thinking my situation was different.  It's not.  The names change and the degrees to which they are different but in the end we all have a journey. 
I have been reading your story Flummoxed.  Keep faith and know that you are not alone.  It is a hard journey for them and us.  I still cry now sometimes thinking of not seeing my kids every night. 

[Tailspin]

So once again this forum was right in the advice of protecting finances.  I officially exchanged financial statements with my wife, and it turns out she has been on quite the spending streak.  Besides the whole new wardrobe, partying on the weekends, and trips away, she apparently had cosmetic stuff secretly done.  Racked up a lot of bills.  My lawyer said we are no paying these as they were her expenses and not family related.  She apparently thought I would be on the hook for half of it. 
I am amazed the amount of debt she presently carries. 
Be careful and listen to advice here.  I locked all my accounts down early in this after reading all the horror stories and nonsense. 

[UrsaMajor]

So once again this forum was right in the advice of protecting finances.  I officially exchanged financial statements with my wife, and it turns out she has been on quite the spending streak.  Besides the whole new wardrobe, partying on the weekends, and trips away, she apparently had cosmetic stuff secretly done.  Racked up a lot of bills.  My lawyer said we are no paying these as they were her expenses and not family related.  She apparently thought I would be on the hook for half of it. 
I am amazed the amount of debt she presently carries. 
Be careful and listen to advice here.  I locked all my accounts down early in this after reading all the horror stories and nonsense.

I'd love to be able to say that I am shocked, surprised, but .... well.... I'm not. A good portion of Mid-Lifers follow the same old preworn path into the tunnel that includes chucking cash out the window like water over Niagara Falls at flood time....

Good that you locked down your accounts and good that your lawyer is fighting back against the "What's mine is mine and what's yours is ours" mentality of MLCSTBXW

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi Tailspin,

I read your story and it is almost identical to mine.  I’ll never forget the shark eyes and the amount of hate that my XW had for me.  Even 3 years later, my XW still can’t interact with me in a healthy manner.

The good news is you are doing well handling the aftermath of the destruction.  You will be ok and life does get better.  Wish you all the best.

HF

[FaithWalker]

I officially exchanged financial statements with my wife, and it turns out she has been on quite the spending streak.  Besides the whole new wardrobe, partying on the weekends, and trips away, she apparently had cosmetic stuff secretly done.  Racked up a lot of bills.  My lawyer said we are no paying these as they were her expenses and not family related.  She apparently thought I would be on the hook for half of it. 

The absolute lack of rational thinking still appalls me to know end.  I know it's MLC and I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am.

[Tailspin]

Journaling

The past week has been hectic with lawyer issues and more gathering of paperwork and evidence.  Feel like I'm wasting my accrued vacation time to take care of these issues.
I myself have really stopped any kind of communication with my wife.  She doesn't speak to me but I would always say good morning or wish her a good day at work.  I stopped that all together now.  I'm so emotionally spent.  I'm trying to figure out my finances and she's running out to look at other apartments.  She is pressuring her lawyer to move things faster because she said she needs out ASAP.  I feel bad in some ways that I'm not trying to engage even a little, but I just don't have it in me anymore.  At night she always in front of the TV texting her married boyfriend even with the kids nearby.  It's so disrespectful. 
2 nights ago she writes an email (That's what my comms are with her) saying we need to put our differences aside for the sake of the kids to make this easier for them.  Amazing that she's tearing our family part, having an affair, not speaking to me, and I'm the one who needs to change.  I ignored the email.  I have been building my relationship with the kids through this.  That MLC brain can't comprehend the whole picture. 
I will tell you a funny story though.  My wife bought another phone from another phone carrier so she can continue her affair without any phone records that I could see.  She thought I knew nothing about it.  Well, the other day she left it out in the room she sleeps in and as I passed by her I said, "You left your secret boyfriend phone out and I would put it away before the kids start asking if they can have an iphone 14 like that".  She had no reply.  LOL

[OffRoad]

Having had a live in MLCer for 18 months myself, I think you will find that you will be able to get your bearings better with her gone, as long as she doesn't just keep "popping" in. You might want to change locks, just saying. I changed locked about a week after mine finally moved out, was it "legal" no, but he kept stealing joint property, so I was done. He monstered about calling the police and I said "Go Ahead". He didn't and I no longer felt crazy because I'd go to look for the waffle maker and it was gone.... BTW, he never made a waffle in his life.

Sorting everything out is exhausting. Finding the paperwork, getting dates and numbers and everything is so overwhelming. But again, one day at a time. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and eventually you will wake up one morning, everything that needed to be done will be done and it will start to look better. I am sure of it.

As to the "put our differences aside for the sake of the kids to make this easier for them", that translates to sweep it all under the rug and act like everything she did was just fine so she doesn't feel bad. Now, if you WANT to do that, fine.  But if you don't you are not obligated to. You can still be distant relative polite when she is around, "for the kid's sake".  I attended my D's college graduation 1 year after the divorce, 3000 miles across the country. XH was there. We stood on either side of her and she got pictures. We went to dinner with a group of people and I was at D's side and XH was halfway down the table. We never had to speak to each other at all. It's is amazing the conversations you can have with a group of people that include an X, and you never have to speak to the X or acknowledge their presence at all. If you didn't know better, it would almost look normal. D thanked me afterwards. She was very happy she could have pictures with both of her parents. Now, if OW had been there, would I have been so accommodating? Depends. And D knows that, and quite frankly at this point respects it (it was a long 9 years to get here). You will get differing advice from differing people here and elsewhere. All I want to say is you do you. Be true to yourself because you are who you have to live with for the rest of your life. But do whatever you do because it is right for you and your kids, not because the MLCer thinks you should.  JMO. And as always, your mileage may vary.

[Tailspin]

The absolute lack of rational thinking still appalls me to know end.  I know it's MLC and I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am.

Me too.  I have no idea where she got that idea from.  Although I think a divorced friend is trying to guide her.  Ughhhh

Sorting everything out is exhausting. Finding the paperwork, getting dates and numbers and everything is so overwhelming. But again, one day at a time. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and eventually you will wake up one morning, everything that needed to be done will be done and it will start to look better. I am sure of it.

As to the "put our differences aside for the sake of the kids to make this easier for them", that translates to sweep it all under the rug and act like everything she did was just fine so she doesn't feel bad. Now, if you WANT to do that, fine. 

Thanks for the advice.  Whenever she wants something lately, she uses the kids as the crutch.  I have learned to shut that down.  Only when I think it benefits them will I do it.  She still wants husband energy in all matters which is bizarre.  I do what is expected of me as a father, but the rest is hers now. 

[Tailspin]

As time is progressing here and my divorce moves forward, I feel guilty that I have lost any feelings towards my wife right now.  I guess her actions have made me colder in many ways and I just reached the end rope emotionally.  I don't want to feel like this, but she has destroyed me internally in so many ways.  I guess seeing her pour attention into her boyfriend is a major driver.  I think about all the penned letters I wrote her this year and how I poured out my heart and I never once heard back.  I think how scorned I feel that she just stopped talking to me.  While I know it's MLC it doesn't make the pain any less. 
I see FB memories come up and I remember all the great things we did in the fall and the trips we took.  Such fun times.  Now my wife just sees me as her future paycheck with alimony and child support.  She even told the kids "I'll get my life started when I get my money".  She never acted like this before. 
Don't mean to be such a downer but can't help feeling all the weight sometimes. 

[Reinventing]

Tailspin, this is a good/bad place to be. Good because it may make the business aspect of the divorce easier. Bad because the feelings of attachment and warmth are such a loss.

Watching someone who is routinely and actively engaging with an OM would be very, very hard. I could see losing feelings for someone with that happening.

It will get better--that much most of us can say. The divorce proceedings are very hard to go through with all the paperwork and knowing it's not what you wanted for your life.

[Treasur]

I would think most of us hit a point where it felt like this. It’s as if the love stuffing gets knocked out of you, isn’t it? An odd feeling. But a normal one too tbh. And a stage one passes through to something else eventually, I think.

On a very practical level, you have spent years building one kind of life and then someone you built it with blew most of it up. And so, slowly, you find yourself having to build a new one even though you were given no voice in that. Regardless of how you feel about your ex/spouse, that’s a big thing to work through. Like getting on a plane to Madrid with all your summer clothes and sangria plans and finding yourself diverted to Norway for no apparent reason….Norway may end up having lots of delightful things but for a while it’s just Not Madrid and you are full of WTF about how the pilot could just divert without you even having a say…..

[Biscuit]

Love the analogy Treasur

[Tailspin]

Like getting on a plane to Madrid with all your summer clothes and sangria plans and finding yourself diverted to Norway for no apparent reason….Norway may end up having lots of delightful things but for a while it’s just Not Madrid and you are full of WTF about how the pilot could just divert without you even having a say…..

I wish I could pin that analogy.  So True. 

Someone had asked me how long you think before you're going to start dating after the divorce.  I honestly knew at that point that people out of this site have no understanding what really is happening.  No matter how I explain things they still treat it as a fight gone horribly wrong or a problematic marriage. 

[Tailspin]

Journaling:

So last night I come to find out my wife stopped paying for my kid's club activities a year ago.  Right at BD she decided to longer pay for these activities.  Meanwhile she was taking money from our joint account and telling me she was using it to pay for these same activities.  Apparently, these clubs were sending her letters and emails, and I wasn't on those because she usually handled many of the kids' stuff like this.
What I find interesting was throughout this whole thing she kept randomly accusing me of trying to hide money and going out to meet up with another women (Meanwhile I was heading to my friends to help fix his car with a greasy shirt on).   Never made sense till now because I never did either.  Someone here had said their spouse did the same thing accusing you of what they were actually doing.  All the things are popping into my head randomly. 
The lies are built on lies and those are all lies.  Saddens me deeply that nothing is truthful anymore. 

[forthetrees]

That is a textbook case of projection. Argh.

[Biscuit]

Tailspin,

I had a similar feeling when my W accused me of various things, objectifying women, being a misogynist, only being interested in one thing from women. Only to discover that these were exactly the sorts of behaviours she had been displaying (replace women for men and mysogynist for misandrist) recently.
As well as these accusations, which cut me very deeply as I would actually describe myself as a feminist - or as close to a feminist as a male can get - there were a raft of other things I was accused of - which I wasn't doing but my W was. I'm not sure why this happens to a person in crisis, but my own theory is that some of these folks are so co-dependant that the things they do or think are assumed to be also the thoughts and actions of the person they are dependant on. Not sure if that makes sense? It's like they can't see where they end and you start?
It feels utterly bonkers though, to be challenged in such a way, it's crazy making and definitely helps to destabilize the LBS, particularly right after BD.
I even bought a load of feminist literature straight after BD. After reading it I realised pretty quickly, that I was none of those things, although I did learn a lot about male bias in society and the patriarchy - so at least something was gained!

[Treasur]

That is a textbook case of projection. Argh.

I’d never really experienced the reality of how WTF projection is until post BD. I recall my xh talking about how he really wanted to ‘repair our marriage’ but was worried he couldn’t trust ME. I was bewildered by that….until I learned later what HE’D been doing at the time. It’s a strange kind of codependency almost, isn’t it, when they seem to believe that you must be u happy bc they are and can’t be trusted bc they aren’t trustworthy.

An odd thing to experience but sadly very normal in experiences here. It’s why is oldsters sometimes must sound like a bag of crazy when we try to say, no matter how gently, that new LBS should prepare themselves for an AP in the mix and lock down their financial exposure as much as they can and not continue to assume something is true just bc their MLC spouse says it. And pretty much to a man or woman, most of us react initially with some version of ‘but MY spouse would NEVER….’. Until we find out like you that the previously inconceivable is a hard fact.

What I want to touch on though is what you said about nothing being truthful. Bc most of us struggle with that concept at least for a while. It isn’t true. YOU were truthful, Tailspin, your part of the relationship, the reality of your kids and your part of the life you built? Those things were true. Tbh logically some of your spouses half of your relationship was probably true pre/BD too…you just don’t know which bits. Well unless your w is/was a textbook sociopath and that’s statistically unlikely.

Post BD? Trickier bc they lie such a lot about so much that one tends to lean towards the assumption that everything is untrue but sometimes, at least in the moment, and maybe we don’t want to hear it, they probably do say things that are true-ish about what they want and how they feel. And their projections are like big fat breadcrumbs lol. Takes most of us quite a while to pick through that….but you will find your own way of looking at that/her. Certainly - and very weirdly - there was a time with my former h when if he had said the sky was blue, I really would have had to check that independently! Bc he lied like breathing. Lied like a small child caught in the biscuit tin with chocolate round his mouth. Lied when I couldn’t even see what advantage he got from it. It was very very strange.

But I know the difference between truth and lies. And I know when I am doing one or the other. I even have a pretty decent instinct over time when people are not trustworthy. So do you.

[Biscuit]

Just around BD my wife asked me to get some different green paints for the bedroom to try a new colour scheme. Which I dutifully did.
One of them she didn’t like and she said - Biscuit why did you get blue paint? I wanted green. The colour description on this particular tin was Pure Green!!
I can lol about it now but that flummoxed me completely!!

[Tailspin]

That is a textbook case of projection. Argh.

That's the word I was looking for.  Thanks

I’d never really experienced the reality of how WTF projection is until post BD. I recall my xh talking about how he really wanted to ‘repair our marriage’ but was worried he couldn’t trust ME. I was bewildered by that….until I learned later what HE’D been doing at the time. It’s a strange kind of codependency almost, isn’t it, when they seem to believe that you must be u happy bc they are and can’t be trusted bc they aren’t trustworthy.

This is exactly how I felt.  It really threw me for loop because at the time I thought I was still dealing with the person I once knew.  The past few days I really have thought about all the things she said I was and in reality, it was what she was feeling about herself.  One thing she kept saying was that I have "High anxiety".  She never in all our years of marriage said that to me.  I actually called a bunch of friends and asked them for their honest opinion if I ever seemed like a person with high anxiety.  They all laughed and said they never saw it or felt it.  In all honesty I started getting a complex that all these odd things were true and I didn't know.  In the coming months my wife would break down in the car in front of the kids and they told me she was saying that she was beyond stressed and freaked out.  She would then tell them not to tell me she was crying.   

I'm not sure why this happens to a person in crisis, but my own theory is that some of these folks are so co-dependant that the things they do or think are assumed to be also the thoughts and actions of the person they are dependant on. Not sure if that makes sense? It's like they can't see where they end and you start?
It feels utterly bonkers though, to be challenged in such a way, it's crazy making and definitely helps to destabilize the LBS, particularly right after BD.

It really threw me for a loop too.  Why was I being accused of all these things when I had never done any of them?  I asked her multiple times why she was saying it and each time got a slightly different answer.  I felt so off balance and confused for a while. 

[Tailspin]

As I enjoy this crisp fall morning I can't help but think what a year this has been.  1 year since bomb drop officially.  While I have made progress I still hold a deep sadness in my heart.  I just stuggle with watching someone have absolutely no feelings, emotions, or care for their spouse of almost 18 years.  I feel invisible.  I honestly feel it would be easier if she was moved out.  Do these people really have nothing?  Not a piece of remorce? 
I had hoped this BD anniversary would different.  I planned a day hiking with my kids to keep myself busy.  My brother and I worked out this morning at 530.  I guess today I hope to exhaust myself enough to fall asleep early.   
I know Hearts blessings said deep down in them the person you once knew is in there.  Just hurts....
Have blessed day everyone.  Enjoy life and little moments. 

[Flummoxed]

Sending hugs, Tailspin! I am so incredibly sorry- to say this is rough is the understatement of the century.

Maybe I’m just a silly optimist, but I do believe their real selves truly are in there deep, deep down. However, it’ll take time and strength for them to break through and we just can’t know if or when that will happen- we can just have hope and faith and carry on.

It’s fantastic that you’re keeping busy and spending time with loved ones. Distance makes it a bit easier to detach, I can at least attest to that. I think it helps me at least to remember that the person acting out right now isn’t the person I married- it’s like dealing with the adolescent version of him on steroids. And I’ve never been good with teens.

All you can do is keep calm, continue with the space, keep taking care of yourself, and keep chatting when you can. You’ll get through this day and feel way better tomorrow knowing you made it through. It’s all just one step at a time up the mountain. But, no matter what, we’ll get a hell of a view once we make it to the top!

[Baxter1]

FL,

Thank you for that message, it was just what I(and many others I'm sure ) need to hear. This isn't who she is and hopefully she will break through one day. Keeping calm,detaching and chatting when we can has worked for 18 months now,who knows what will happen but it's good to have those little pep talks to keep people going.

[Flummoxed]

Absolutely, Baxter!! I know the team has been there when I’ve hit rough spots myself and I’d love to do the same.

It’s great to know that these steps have been helpful for the past year and a half (I didn’t find HS until about 2 months ago so this is new for me)- I feel like if we stay on this consistent path, it helps us continue on as a lighthouse (if standing) and become even stronger versions of ourselves (regardless of stand status).

We just have to keep remembering to keep on keeping on and that the MLC is not about us. The hate and vitriol? Not about us. The prospective indifference to come? Again- not about us. But we will keep on keeping on, be the best we can be, show compassion but also detachment as we live our lives the best we can. And if ever in doubt, we have this phenomenal forum of people who truly wish us well.

[UrsaMajor]

FL,

Thank you for that message, it was just what I(and many others I'm sure ) need to hear. This isn't who she is and hopefully she will break through one day. Keeping calm,detaching and chatting when we can has worked for 18 months now,who knows what will happen but it's good to have those little pep talks to keep people going.

I hate to be a wet blanket on the party but, if anecdotal evidence here is any indication, the majority of the Mid-Lifers will not have the strength to actually do the work they need to do in order to get their heads out of their .... fog....   That is usually why they ended up in the MLC in the first place. They are similar to addicts in many ways in that, as long as they don't go <splat> on the rocks at rock bottom and CHOOSE to take responsibility for their own loves, CHOOSE to work through the issues that are plaguing them, and CHOOSE to be held accountable for their actions, they will continue to live their lives in a state of "tunnelism."

I see it still in my MLCxW. She still projects and tries to rewrite history, even though her D was final 5 years ago.....

[Tailspin]

Thanks everyone for the vote of confidence and up lifting words.  Wife has told me her move out date.  She actually had the nerve to say that she hopes we can settle the money stuff soon.  She said she needs to start living. 
I'm actually happy she's leaving at this point.  There are no words said and nothing but a constant scowl on her face when I'm around.  She wants her new life with OM (He's not leaving his wife). 
A year and 2 weeks to the day of BD. I told my brother that it's sad that I feel relieved but seeing someone become a completely different person and truly hate you has been an eye-opening experience.   I am learning forgiveness the best I can right now and will live for my children.  Don't know if time heals everything and if I can ever be friends with my wife.  Time will tell.  We still have to finish the divorce, and I hope to be financially ok till I'm allowed to get my other job.