[Flummoxed]

Hello everyone,

I hope you are doing well and keeping up alright. I have been reading several older posts and they have been so helpful- thank you all so much for sharing your journeys and being so open despite everything you have experienced. I am finding I do not have anyone to really talk to about this right now, hence this post.

A: 30's
M: 5Y
BD: mid-Feb 2023. however, H was pulling away from 2022 onward. I could feel it, though he denied it consistently until BD, when he flat out said that he no longer had sexual interest in me and that he was not interested in continuing our relationship. He said he would give me an amount of money and then suggested some places where he thought I should move. We spoke for days and he seemed to be coming out of the shadows- I thought he was just stuck in his head and reconnecting and realigning would help us both. He said he was scared, that he didn't want to feel this way, and he wanted us to work out but the sexual draw toward me was gone. He asked if I could see us having an open marriage and he didn't want to cheat on me if I became pregnant but he was worried he would. He did agree to try couples counseling, so I jumped right on it.

We tried couples counseling twice but he didn't seem to be interested in working on anything. He didn't like that the therapists seemed to understand my perspective more. He asked for a trial separation to get some space and think and I agreed. If it's what he needed, I wasn't going to hold him back.

He came back after a few weeks and confirmed there was no one else, that he wanted to see if we could fix our relationship. But he didn't do anything to do so and refused to go back to couples counseling. I did my best to keep a safe space to communicate, not push him, but check in maybe once every month/other month to see how he was feeling. I listened to him, cooked his favorite foods, sent him positive messages, anything to boost his spirits. He grew more and more distant. I asked him if there was anyone else a few times and he kept saying there wasn't. I told him if he ever wanted out to please tell me, that I did not want to be cheated on (I had been cheated on once in a prior relationship). He kept saying there was no one else and he was just trying to get his mind right. I took his words at face value.

He started traveling more and more for work. I got suspicious but he has always been a workaholic and I am already prone to anxiety so didn't want to overthink it. He started acting cagey during our monthly/bimonthly check-ins, but again, I wanted to believe him so badly. He became more of a night owl when he had always been a morning person before.

He texted me a few days ago, out of the blue, that he has been having an affair for over a year and that he wanted me to move out in a couple weeks so he could move ow into our shared home. He said he'd give me some money and that this was best for everyone. He said we were already divorced and I should be over it.

My stomach hit the floor and hasn't come up since. I can't stop shaking. I can't eat more than a peanut butter sandwich a day and I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night. I asked for time to process and he seems to have allowed that for now. But my world as I knew it just crashed and burned.

I know nothing about the alienator. He says it's no one I know, but I know I can't trust him right now.

Trigger events: He has a parent whose health is declining. He also went from working at more established companies to a startup filled with people in their 20s who are very much in the work hard play hard life. He instantly drew into the energy; he has always wanted to fit in and be liked.

I think this is an MLC as he seemed to be in the anger/depression space in 2022. He would shout at our neighbor and at front desk staff for the smallest things- it wasn't like him. Then he said he had no more sexual interest in me but bawled when he said he wanted things to work. He didn't want to ask me to wait, because he didn't know how long it would take or if the feeling would ever resolve, but he seemed hurt to think of me entering another relationship. But then every emotion just vanished. He did buy new clothes and doesn't spend much time with local friends anymore. He seems generally checked out but would buy me food from time to time out of guilt. For what, at the time, I wasn't sure.

In his text, he threatened legal action regarding our shared property. In his mind, we were already divorced.

No history of mental illness.

I will be working to secure a therapist because I definitely need the support.

I am distraught. He was truly my best friend and my person. I will begin detaching- I understand that is the best thing overall. I am not sure if I am willing to stand. He knew what infidelity would do to me and this was one of the worst, if not the worst, things he could have done. Talking to him, providing compassion and a safe space to talk, has not worked for me. I need to focus on my own well-being.

I just wanted to chat with the group to get your take on the above, if you also agree it's an MLC? For fellow LBSs, what did you do in your early days/first year to get to some kind of normalcy? Is there any advice you can offer someone just starting to experience the more devastating parts of this situation? Would love to hear from both ex-MLCers and LBSs. I appreciate you all.

[zartheit]

Hello Flummoxed. I'm sorry you're going through this but I am glad you have found this place.

I am not sure if I am willing to stand.

That's ok. You can stand or not stand, whatever works for you. You can change positions on a whim. You can even hold BOTH positions at the same time. To paraphrase a song, don't worry about taking it easy; take it any way you can.

I need to focus on my own well-being.

I agree. I believe that regardless of what the future might bring, ensuring your own well being is the best way to prepare for it.

[Do] you also agree it's an MLC?

I will say yes. Someone you trusted has betrayed you inexplicably without "cause" (whatever that might mean) or remorse. It has capsized your world, calling into question your memories, your judgement, and your understanding of large aspects of reality. I want to let you know that this situation firetrucked up. Their behavior is unhinged. That being said, attaching a label to it is less useful than you might believe. For myself, it was an attempt at control. I felt that if I could label it, I could understand it, and then I could manipulate it to get my life back. This type of event is a natural disaster. It's a tornado, an earthquake, an erupting volcano. There is no control. At best we can seek shelter.

For fellow LBSs, what did you do in your early days/first year to get to some kind of normalcy?

I'll first share my experience and then give my advice.

I squirmed around A LOT. Immense trial and error. I felt like a failure. Nothing was "sticking". Nothing  "worked". I felt terrible and it didn't seem to go away. I believed, for some reason, that I shouldn't feel bad. I believed that if I were truly doing everything right then I would feel ok. But I didn't feel ok. That made me feel worse. With hindsight, I can see that this is the process. I now understand that I had the equivalent of internal bleeding. It makes sense it would take time to feel better!

As for advice, there are multiple layers that may or may not be appropriate given where you're at emotionally. The overall idea is to get in-tune with that inner voice that knows what you need and to hold steady until the ambient noise quiets down enough for you to hear it. For me, I started rigorously exercising (weight training, hiking, and sometimes running), eating very healthy food, cut out drinking, cut out social media, spending as much time outside in nature as I could, found a therapist, did frequent journaling, and tried to spend as much time with friends and family as I was able. I made lists of things that I had always wanted to do but didn't. I didn't necessarily DO the things but it felt good to see a possible future, and when I was more stable I did in fact start doing those things. I made lists of people I admired and why. This helped me build more confidence in myself when I could identify with these role models. I made lists of places I wanted to visit. I took personality tests and career tests and all kinds of things like that to attempt to reconnect with myself (which is actually hilarious now that I write it out). I read a ton of books (when I was eventually able to read again) about relationships, personal development, and philosophy, which were all things I wanted to read before but never did. To, maybe hopefully, summarize: there is a concept of PIES (physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual) which is a good mnemonic for searching various things you can start turning towards.

I think one of the hardest things I did which was the most helpful was to not run from the emotions. Good or bad, I did my best to sit with any emotion that arouse. At first I would run. I would do ANYTHING to escape it, which was absolutely appropriate. I truly felt like I was going to die. It was truly FEELING there was a monster under my bed. As time went on, however, I began to be able to sit with them more faithfully. I felt rage, shame, humiliation, sorrow, confusion, love, longing, loss. Sometimes all in the span of a few minutes. Sometimes mixtures of them at a time. I went through boxes of tissues. I ruined a jacket from wiping my tears so steadily for so many months. This all tended towards radical acceptance, having an internal locus of control, being outcome independence, which are fancy words that mean taking care of yourself emotionally.

But honestly, this is all fancy nonsense. Truly take it a day at a time, an hour at a time, a minute at a time, moment by moment. If you put one foot in front of the other, that's a victory. If you get out of bed, that's a victory. If you brush your teeth, that's a victory.

[LBSinUSA]

My BD was a year ago and I guess I can tell you what my initial reaction was: back off and detach.  I did that for a month but then I followed some rather unhelpful advice from a marriage counselor who told me not to do this but to placate STBXW’s grievances about cleaning.  I played along with that for a couple months but it was real obvious what a waste that was.  It would just move to another grievance until eventually she was just making stuff up about what I did in the past.  So as hard as it is I think the best thing to do is peel the band aid off now and detach.

The other thing you should do and do like Monday asap is contact an attorney.   It might seem drastic and sad but here’s the truth: you need to protect yourself.  For all intents and purposes you are not dealing with a sane person anymore and he can cause you a lot of legal problems if he’s gone off the deep end.  It’s time to focus on you. What he said about forcing you out of the house does not sound like something he could actually do if you both own the property.   As an attorney I can tell you this is now strictly business no matter how much he whines and cries about you not leaving.

I wish I had known about this site a year ago.  I only found it around January. I wasted 5-6 months wondering what the hell was this bizarre behavior from STBXW.  Your situation sounds like MLC to me. 

Frankly for me putting a label on it allowed me to understand and have an idea of what to expect and most importantly not make me feel like I was the one going crazy.   

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, zartheit and LBSinUSA, so much for sharing your experiences and insights with me. It was honestly a relief to hear back from individuals who have experience with this journey. Although I still cannot believe this is reality, I am so thankful for this group.

zartheit:

Thank you so much for clarifying that the decision to stand or not does not need to be fixed. I feel pressured but will work to let it go and accept that sometimes you don't need an answer or a label as to your stance.

I want to let you know that this situation firetrucked up. Their behavior is unhinged. That being said, attaching a label to it is less useful than you might believe. For myself, it was an attempt at control. I felt that if I could label it, I could understand it, and then I could manipulate it to get my life back. This type of event is a natural disaster. It's a tornado, an earthquake, an erupting volcano. There is no control. At best we can seek shelter.

I love "firetrucked up"- that just made my smile. But thank you for validating the insanity- even though I'm learning that the MLC is about the MLCer and not the LBS, it's really tough not to think I triggered this. I find myself wondering if this is an MLC or rather a WAS situation- probably TMI but I was experiencing pain, which really impacted our sex life. Although it took time, I did take the steps to address the issue though... I don't know. Maybe it's a fool's errand to make heads or tails out of this. I completely understand where you're coming from with the labeling- I feel myself doing the same thing. I'm, at heart, a problem solver. I love puzzles, mysteries, and the satisfaction of resolving an issue. And I'm sitting here trying to label it either an MLC or a WAS or who knows what else entirely because- you're exactly right- it feels like once I know the problem, I can find its solution. But I'm not the one who will be able to resolve this. And I need to just let that absorb. (Though I am still curious about MLC vs WAS...)

Thank you so much for sharing the squirminess at the beginning and the activities that helped you rebuild that confidence and really connect with yourself again. I am definitely in a squirmy, downtrodden space right now- I can't watch TV for 10 minutes without anxiety flaring throughout. What's funny is that I was engaged in very similar activities over the past year and a half (since BD, honestly) to keep busy- dove into philosophy and relationship books, spent as much time outdoors as possible, kept a consistent workout routine... and I guess I still just fully fell apart. But it all definitely made a huge difference before and I have no doubt it will again. I will definitely keep PIES in mind moving forward.

I'm definitely not used to sitting with my emotions so will have to give it a real try. I do feel a messy ball of various emotions just attacking my heart and my stomach- I guess the only way out is through.

If you put one foot in front of the other, that's a victory. If you get out of bed, that's a victory. If you brush your teeth, that's a victory.

This meant a lot to me; thank you. It truly is at that level for me right now so seeing that is okay and acceptable; it is such a relief.

LBSinUSA:

Detachment for sure- I will definitely do my very best. Of course, I guess it'll come with practice. It feels so eerie, but it's definitely a necessity. I'm sorry to hear about your experience with addressing your STBXW's grievances- you were looking to solve the problem, but it was never yours to solve.

100%- thank you so much for the guidance. I will make an appointment and work to keep my emotions in check to understand what my options are. We do co-own the property. I re-read his text and he is threatening to start the legal process if I do not accept the money being offered.

This behavior truly is bizarre, isn't it? From my end, I wonder if it may be WAS, but the cruelty and ice cold approach make me think it's an MLC.

Frankly for me putting a label on it allowed me to understand and have an idea of what to expect and most importantly not make me feel like I was the one going crazy.

I can absolutely understand this as well. I feel I missed something. Things weren't perfect, but they weren't that bad to warrant this destruction. I guess I may be in some kind of Bargaining phase- I know I should understand that it is not the LBS that is the reason for the abuse, but man, does the MLCer sure make it feel that way.

[Treasur]

Ah, one of those ‘divorced in my head’ folks….sorry.

I agree with others that your priority is to see a lawyer and get some guidance on your options and sensible next steps to protect yourself. Please try to ignore his threats and, if I were you, I would send him your lawyers details and tell him to contact your lawyer instead of you. And vice versa tbh for your safety and sanity. Once people start threatening you imho, it’s a different ball game. His threats only work if a)you hear them and b) you think they matter. The law is still the law, and facts are still facts, even if your MLCer acts as if they don’t apply to him. (Sadly not uncommon - I call it a ‘zipless divorce’ where essentially an MLCer wants you to just disappear in a puff of smoke - but that can be a dangerous place too if someone has this mentality)

Do you feel physically unsafe? If you do, talk to your lawyer about this too and what you can do to protect yourself.

These important practical things do not of course address any of the complicated emotions you must be feeling right now. And that’s normal too. It takes a while to work through these things and we tend to go round and round with questions in our heads while we do. Protecting yourself won’t answer those questions but it also won’t make them worse; they are separate things. Do you have some support from friends or family nearby? How are you doing with the life basics like sleep, food, work etc? Sounds as if some of those things are challenging for you right now? As others have said, fall back to basics and take it an hour/day a a time - do whatever small things you need to do that make a day 1% better or easier. And yes, a decent IC may well be a helpful thing; try to find someone who understands trauma would be my advice bc a lot of what you are feeling right now is a normal kind of post-trauma response. And when one gets that, you can find ways to sort of ‘hack’ it with help.

In a funny bit of timing from the universe, I just read this this morning https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/aug/17/im-like-a-steamrollered-cartoon-character-totally-flat-the-agony-aunt-who-couldnt-feel-anything-at-all
You can see that a lot of what the article says echoes a lot of what we say here about self care. When you are in a dark hole, the basics matter and they have a compound effect like bricks in a wall. You may never have had a time in your life so far when you have had to be so intentional about taking care of yourself, and figuring out what works for you and what does not. But this is it. It will probably feel a bit weird for a while like any new skill, until it doesn’t. So, you need to take baby steps, treat it like an experiment almost, and do small things before you feel you want to do them if that makes sense. With time and practice, you will find that you develop your own sort of emergency too box - I still use mine now if I have a bad day bc I know what works and restores my sense of ok- ness even when life is throwing out some not ok stuff.

This is how you get to the other side of Here. It’s not quick and it’s not always easy. We get it. But there IS an other side and life will not always feel how it feels right now. We know that 100% bc we have been where you are, so you can borrow our faith in you getting there too even if you can’t see it yet!

It’s a terribly painful and confusing experience, isn’t it?
But also that is why trying to focus on taking one step at a time through the maze is important.

Put simply, whatever the reasons, your h now no longer cares about your well-being, only his own. And he has proven to be someone who has lied to you so you can no longer trust his words about anything much. He does not want your ‘support’ bc he has chosen a different path. None of this is your fault and you did not choose it…..but this is how it currently is. And you can’t control it/him….only how you respond to the situation and what/who you prioritise.

Imho when people do not treat us with care and respect, it becomes even more important that WE treat ourselves with care and respect. The source of our trauma cannot help us heal from the trauma. And tbh often they make it harder with more drama, threats and WTF stuff. And no one can fix a situation like this in the face of that; it’s like trying to clap one-handed. So you are quite right that you need to pull back hard and focus on you / a bit like they say on aeroplanes about putting your own oxygen mask on first.

When in doubt, do for yourself what you would want a much loved sister or friend to do for themselves if they were in your situation.

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you.
How can we best support you right now?

[Baxter1]

FL-

I’m so sorry you’re going through this! I am reading your story and it’s so similar it’s scary. My W gave me ILYB speech in 3/23. After that she wanted me to move out, I refused. She asked me every 2 months for a year…I still refused. It’s been 1.5 years of me living in the man cave. She said this at BD: ‘I want to move you out so I can move him in.’ It’s just recently that I get the feeling that their relationship is winding down but you never can tell. ‘So how’s that affair working out?’, is not something I really want to ask in our kitchen.

All that being said I spoke to a lawyer who advised me not to leave(in addition to everyone here and my friends), so here I am. Not sure if your legal situation or if you feel safe in the house but the general consensus is if they want out they can go. She filed 3/24, I got the feeling that the OM was pushing for it, I don’t think it was her idea. She filed 6 months ago and brought it up one time, we’ll see how it goes.

All that being said you’re not alone in this, it’s devastating but do what you feel is right for you, good luck!

[KayDee]

So sorry you are going through this. You have had some amazing advice already. It's great that you are a person with a learning and inquisitive mind, it will mean that you will eventually find or renew passions and past-times to enrich your life as you move forward towards healing. I consider myself a pretty strong person on all fronts, but in the first weeks/months after BD, I was a wreck. I lost over 10 kilos, had high blood pressure, mini-panic attacks, nose bleeds, a weird rash (I could go on, but that's enough, right!). My anxiety was cranked up to max. I used to find sleep by listening to a really boring podcasts (   - at least I can look back an laugh a bit.) (oh, and laughter is a great companion if you can muster up some humour, dark or otherwise, along the way). I too naturally do PIES (also the pastry ones can be quite comforting ). I found a mix of punctuating my week with interaction with others (friends, yoga group, therapy), so that I didn't get isolated, plus scheduling my own exercise, and also making sure I had quiet time alone to be with my feelings. This got me through the first six or so months. I do believe it is important to sit with our feelings, let go of our emotions (hitting cushions, screaming in the shower etc). It's is a kind of 'blood letting' - better out than in. My instinct was to create some safety around my vulnerable, emotional self, so I told my H not to contact me for a set period. He kind of respected this and it really helped me to get some stable footing. I kept my circle small, spending time mostly with people I trusted.

One of the most important bits of guidance I got here, is that we do NOT always need to respond to the crisis person's demands. We do not need to match their mad (often manic) pace, which is usually like a racing greyhound out of the gates. I felt continually poked and prodded to do things, yet it was not me that had decided to flip my entire life on its head. It felt like being press-ganged or something. When I realised that, if acting was not in my favour, I did not need to do anything at all, that was such a relief. A wise soul here often told me 'doing nothing, is sometimes the right thing to do'.  We are so used to being responsible to our spouses, it's a hard habit to break. If you were the fixer of the marriage (hands up here), that is a dynamic you will likely need to shift.

Your H is currently trying to bully you, so yes, absolutely, get legal advice - forewarned is forearmed - then you can make informed decisions moving forward. I know from my own experience, that it is so very hard to address these things when you are so early in, the only way I could manage it, is to tell myself that I needed, for a time, to get into a 'deal not feel' mode. Yes, go home and crumble for a bit afterwards, but you will be amazed how strong (and stronger) you will feel getting these things done.

Please do not blame yourself for your H's behaviour. You had pain. A compassionate partner would be concerned for you. Not blame you. It helped me to flip the situation around and ask 'would I do this, any of this, to my H?' - try it yourself, it really puts things into focus.

MLC or WAS? Both are the actions of an immature and broken person IMO. And honestly, it is the actions we need to deal with. These are what impact us.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Welcome to the site no one should ever have to join. You are getting great advice about finding legal support.

Your H is currently trying to bully you, so yes, absolutely, get legal advice - forewarned is forearmed - then you can make informed decisions moving forward.

He definitely is.

He texted me a few days ago, out of the blue, that he has been having an affair for over a year and that he wanted me to move out in a couple weeks so he could move ow into our shared home. He said he'd give me some money and that this was best for everyone. He said we were already divorced and I should be over it.

That's not how things work. First, you and Mr. Stegosaurus are still married. I selected his name because the Stegosaurus was dumbest dinosaur and that's exactly how his brain is working. My first counter back is that he and OW can go and find there own place to live. You are not a piece of furniture that he can spend a few dollars on and have carted off.

One of the most important bits of guidance I got here, is that we do NOT always need to respond to the crisis person's demands.

Exactly. Go slow and don't think that being quick will win you any brownie points with Mr. Stegosaurus. Develop your own game plan and remember, he's not going to do anything in your best interest. Currently, he is very self-centered and his mindset is to get what he wants and only what he wants.

As for advice, there are multiple layers that may or may not be appropriate given where you're at emotionally. The overall idea is to get in-tune with that inner voice that knows what you need and to hold steady until the ambient noise quiets down enough for you to hear it. For me, I started rigorously exercising (weight training, hiking, and sometimes running), eating very healthy food, cut out drinking, cut out social media, spending as much time outside in nature as I could, found a therapist, did frequent journaling, and tried to spend as much time with friends and family as I was able. I made lists of things that I had always wanted to do but didn't. I didn't necessarily DO the things but it felt good to see a possible future, and when I was more stable I did in fact start doing those things. I made lists of people I admired and why. This helped me build more confidence in myself when I could identify with these role models. I made lists of places I wanted to visit. I took personality tests and career tests and all kinds of things like that to attempt to reconnect with myself (which is actually hilarious now that I write it out). I read a ton of books (when I was eventually able to read again) about relationships, personal development, and philosophy, which were all things I wanted to read before but never did. To, maybe hopefully, summarize: there is a concept of PIES (physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual) which is a good mnemonic for searching various things you can start turning towards.

I really liked this advice. Think of your self recovery first. All of this is major trauma on you and you need to heal first. Think of things to help you find your feet. Have a moment of bliss and reflect what brought this moment to you. This takes you focus off of him and towards a more productive activity of helping you.

I know all of this is hard and very painful, but always keep in mind that this was due to his flaws of character not yours.

Have a great weekend,

(((Ready)))

[FaithWalker]

Reading along F.

Sane people do not tell their spouse that they want to move them out and OW in.  Sane people do not say "we are already divorced" when it's not true.  Sounds like MLC to me.  If it walks like a duck... and all.

Do you have kids or is it just you? 

You have gotten some great advice on this thread!

[Flummoxed]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all so much for your insights- I'm so thankful and it makes my heart full (at whatever size it is now lol, but full regardless).

Small wins for today: took a shower and heated up soup (was previously too big a job and too many dishes)..

I also wrote a mini write-up of events from my perspective and i think it helped me reframe the more I read it. I truly did everything I could to save us. It was his decision (or impulse or need- not sure what the correct word would be to use) to blow our lives apart. But I know I did the best I could and I can stand tall knowing that.

Questionable: I spent a lot of time trying to understand what happens from the MLCer perspective. And much of it was triggering, for sure. It's hard not to take what is said so personally. Maybe my heart is too soft right now. I need to focus on me but I did not do that today. Not much comparatively anyway.

Treasur:

Ah, one of those ‘divorced in my head’ folks….sorry.

Yeesh, is this common? I hadn't come across it from my limited research but it seems to be a thing.

Once people start threatening you imho, it’s a different ball game. His threats only work if a)you hear them and b) you think they matter. The law is still the law, and facts are still facts, even if your MLCer acts as if they don’t apply to him. (Sadly not uncommon - I call it a ‘zipless divorce’ where essentially an MLCer wants you to just disappear in a puff of smoke - but that can be a dangerous place too if someone has this mentality)

Do you feel physically unsafe? If you do, talk to your lawyer about this too and what you can do to protect yourself.

Thank you so much- when I speak with someone next week, I will see if they can stand in for communications. In your experience, how does a threatening MLCer differ in circumstance? I feel like the threatening bit itself should be a hit on the head, but if there are any other patterns you've come across, I would love to be prepared. And thank you so much for affirming that the laws still hold true regardless- I can admit I was deeply impacted by the text he had sent- it was a one-two punch and I couldn't really absorb the second since I was already down from the first. I also get the sense that he just wants me out of the picture as soon as possible for it to be convenient for him. I am a bit scared for my safety; I will need to discuss this as well. Thank you.

Do you have some support from friends or family nearby? How are you doing with the life basics like sleep, food, work etc? Sounds as if some of those things are challenging for you right now? As others have said, fall back to basics and take it an hour/day a a time - do whatever small things you need to do that make a day 1% better or easier. And yes, a decent IC may well be a helpful thing; try to find someone who understands trauma would be my advice bc a lot of what you are feeling right now is a normal kind of post-trauma response. And when one gets that, you can find ways to sort of ‘hack’ it with help.

I do have support from friends and family, thankfully. Although we moved across the country during the pandemic and my social support network is still where it originally was, they have been nothing but supportive. I have definitely been finding life basics a challenge, but I think I'm making small improvements on a hourly/daily level? Thank you- I will be looking up a trauma IC. I definitely need help unpacking this all. Thank you for affirming that this is normal.

With time and practice, you will find that you develop your own sort of emergency too box - I still use mine now if I have a bad day bc I know what works and restores my sense of ok- ness even when life is throwing out some not ok stuff.

Thank you so much for sharing the article. I absolutely need to tap into my tool box. I've suffered from depression on and off since my teen years and anxiety has been consistent for the most part, so I fortunately (unfortunately?) have a bit of familiarity with this. One little bit each day to show myself I care. I'm currently just in survival, but I'll get there in time.

How can we best support you right now?

Truly, I am not sure. I feel like all the support and advice I have received thus far has been so much more than what I could ever ask for. I am an individual who finds it challenging to ask for help. So opening up, asking, and receiving so much kindness, understanding, and guidance means the world to me. I will have questions and continue to update the thread with more "is this "normal"? have you come across this?" items I'm sure.

Baxter1:

you never can tell. ‘So how’s that affair working out?’, is not something I really want to ask in our kitchen.

No, you certainly can't!

All that being said I spoke to a lawyer who advised me not to leave(in addition to everyone here and my friends), so here I am. Not sure if your legal situation or if you feel safe in the house but the general consensus is if they want out they can go.

I will definitely need to further discuss to determine best next steps on my end. I can understand why a lot of people would advise staying; I wish that was a firm possibility for me. I do not feel 100% safe- he had never been a violent guy toward me before, but he's someone new now and he simply wants me out of the picture. He had been more physical in his younger years; I do not know if that will rear up again.

All that being said you’re not alone in this, it’s devastating but do what you feel is right for you, good luck!

Thank you so, so much. And I wish you all the luck as well- I have no idea how you're standing firm but it is truly amazing and I hope for only the best for you.

KayDee:

My instinct was to create some safety around my vulnerable, emotional self, so I told my H not to contact me for a set period. He kind of respected this and it really helped me to get some stable footing. I kept my circle small, spending time mostly with people I trusted.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and what worked for you! I consider myself to be a strong person as well but, man, this really puts you through the ringer. Do you recall when you were able to get more proactive about the activities that brought you joy (i.e., socializing, yoga, etc.)? I see these beautiful recommendations from all and I want to engage but I also feel like I'm still in the stuck in bed phase. I engaged in a 20 minute conversation yesterday before feeling nauseous and am considering that progress. I hope that's not too out of the norm if at all. I definitely agree that having space from the MLCer definitely helps. I guess I'm not sure who I can trust when it comes to my friends. And it's nothing against them at all: I do have a tight knit group. But I am hesitant to trust, I guess, which makes this harder of course as it can lead to isolation.

When I realised that, if acting was not in my favour, I did not need to do anything at all, that was such a relief. A wise soul here often told me 'doing nothing, is sometimes the right thing to do'.  We are so used to being responsible to our spouses, it's a hard habit to break. If you were the fixer of the marriage (hands up here), that is a dynamic you will likely need to shift.

I didn't even consider this to be an option- thank you for sharing with me! I don't know why- I'm also a fixer! Always the first one up to assess and triage. Thank you for sharing this wisdom- I will work on slowing down and responding versus reacting.

Please do not blame yourself for your H's behaviour. You had pain. A compassionate partner would be concerned for you. Not blame you. It helped me to flip the situation around and ask 'would I do this, any of this, to my H?' - try it yourself, it really puts things into focus.

This really did help; thank you so much. I absolutely would never voluntarily do this to him in a million years. But then I question if he's voluntarily doing this. I did a dive into ex-MLCer threads and tried to understand what was happening. But at the end of the day, I guess that doesn't change my experience of events and the very real threats. I am trying to be empathetic and compassionate but is that holding back from healing myself? I feel like the answer is probably yes but I'm torn.

MLC or WAS? Both are the actions of an immature and broken person IMO. And honestly, it is the actions we need to deal with. These are what impact us.

100%. I need to get this in my mind. In a recent moment, I did tell him I was interested in exploring other career opportunities and he offered an alternative solution and even shared a few positions with me that he thought would be a good fit. There were small moments when he was home that he was willing to help in this way, go above and beyond what I was expecting. I guess that's why I am on the fence about MLC and WAS. Even though the labeling shouldn't matter, because there were still acts of kindness however small not too long ago, maybe it's not what I think it is? Do MLCers tend do these tiny gestures of kindness? If so, would they be based off guilt?

Ready:

I selected his name because the Stegosaurus was dumbest dinosaur and that's exactly how his brain is working. My first counter back is that he and OW can go and find there own place to live. You are not a piece of furniture that he can spend a few dollars on and have carted off.

Oh my goodness, Stegosaurus made me chuckle- thank you so much! I completely agree- it just seems like he's lost his mind. I should have said just that- that is too good.

Exactly. Go slow and don't think that being quick will win you any brownie points with Mr. Stegosaurus. Develop your own game plan and remember, he's not going to do anything in your best interest. Currently, he is very self-centered and his mindset is to get what he wants and only what he wants.

Thank you. Agreed- no need for quick movements. I panicked over his manic text but I need to learn that just because he's put a rush on something doesn't mean it really calls for a rush or that it even makes sense. I need to detach and focus on myself. Breathe.

I know all of this is hard and very painful, but always keep in mind that this was due to his flaws of character not yours.

Thank you so much. I am trying to absolutely internalize this. It's been difficult but reviewing the facts a few times already has helped immensely. I hope you have a beautiful rest of your weekend as well.

FaithWalker:

Sane people do not tell their spouse that they want to move them out and OW in.  Sane people do not say "we are already divorced" when it's not true.  Sounds like MLC to me.  If it walks like a duck... and all.

Thank you so much! It really does help to put a label to this behavior just to understand what's going on. It truly is insanity.

We do not have kids, but we wanted them. I know that wasn't the question but it's been on my mind.

I truly have received fantastic advice and so much kindness from this amazing group. Thank you all so incredibly much for your guidance and compassion. It really is nice to know that there is a community we can connect with to get through these times.

[xyzcf]

Good morning and welcome to Hero's Spouse. You just found out a few days ago that he is having an affair.

Small wins for today: took a shower and heated up soup (was previously too big a job and too many dishes)..

I also wrote a mini write-up of events from my perspective and i think it helped me reframe the more I read it. I truly did everything I could to save us. It was his decision (or impulse or need- not sure what the correct word would be to use) to blow our lives apart. But I know I did the best I could and I can stand tall knowing that.

Questionable: I spent a lot of time trying to understand what happens from the MLCer perspective. And much of it was triggering, for sure. It's hard not to take what is said so personally. Maybe my heart is too soft right now. I need to focus on me but I did not do that today. Not much comparatively anyway.

Your body's physiology is in fight/flight/freeze mode. The feelings of loss of appetite, difficulty sleeping, nausea, anxiety, crying, loss of focus is normal when your body is under a threat. Resolution of these symptoms takes time. A therapist that understands trauma is in my opinion the best to deal with what has happened to us.

Try drinking protein shakes if you cannot eat, I went for massage therapy and acupuncture to help calm my nervous system. Journaling, walking and talking with friends who would listen without jumping in with a ton of advice helped as did coming to Hero's Spouse. I took Benadryl to help me sleep and used Bach's Flower Rescue Sleep when I'd wake up ion the middle of the night. I had a prescription for anti anxiety meds as well. Focus on deep breathing to quiet your mind.

It took a very long time before I worked through this first stage of grief.

Here is a chart to help you understand the phsyiolkogical process of what happens when our world is blown apart. Having a therapist who treats trauma patients is more helpful in my opionion that typical "talk therapy".

https://www.reidstellcounseling.com/uploads/1/3/9/3/13938466/polyvagal_chart.pdf

Do you recall when you were able to get more proactive about the activities that brought you joy (i.e., socializing, yoga, etc.)? I see these beautiful recommendations from all and I want to engage but I also feel like I'm still in the stuck in bed phase.

I could barely function for a long time. I had practiced yoga for 15 years and I was in a yoga class and all I could do was curl up in a ball. The teacher knew what was going on and came by my mat and told me to stay as I was, no need to move and I stayed in that position for the entire class.

There came a time when I was able to do more than just barely getting showered. I could tell how I was feeling by the state of my kitcehn....sometimes there were dishes not washed, mail scattered about....I started to recreate order and some sort of routine...some days that would work, others I would lay on a couch most o the day.

Be gentle with yourself.

This is not about you and not about the marriage.

I don't know why but this phrase from RCR helped me:

"But this is his crisis and he needs you to accept and respect his needs. He needs to feel safe rather than judged. You are afraid a separation will become permanent. He is afraid of that fear in you".

Reaching the point that there is no way to change his crisis and acceptance that this is not the person that you married and loved for so long might be the point when things start to change for the better for you.

We are here to listen and support you, for we have all lived through similar experiences.

[KayDee]

Do you recall when you were able to get more proactive about the activities that brought you joy (i.e., socializing, yoga, etc.)? I see these beautiful recommendations from all and I want to engage but I also feel like I'm still in the stuck in bed phase. I engaged in a 20 minute conversation yesterday before feeling nauseous and am considering that progress. I hope that's not too out of the norm if at all. I definitely agree that having space from the MLCer definitely helps. I guess I'm not sure who I can trust when it comes to my friends. And it's nothing against them at all: I do have a tight knit group. But I am hesitant to trust, I guess, which makes this harder of course as it can lead to isolation.

Pretty early on I went to stay with family or very close friends. People who understood that I may need to wander off on my own, or lie on the grass and stare at clouds (I did this...). I started structured exercise classes with other people a few months in. I think the main thing is to find your own balance between not spiraling inwards through isolation and rumination, and not over-doing things so much that you feel overwhelmed and exhausted. For me, the key, was keep my circle small, to people I absolutely trusted.

I am trying to be empathetic and compassionate but is that holding back from healing myself? I feel like the answer is probably yes but I'm torn.

I don't ever think being empathic or compassionate is wrong, and perhaps, like many of us on this forum, having some understanding of what is going on can really help us not to personalise it. That is very, very hard to do. I think you already know, this is another balance. As the saying goes 'put your own oxygen mask on first'.

Even though the labeling shouldn't matter, because there were still acts of kindness however small not too long ago, maybe it's not what I think it is? Do MLCers tend do these tiny gestures of kindness? If so, would they be based off guilt?

People in MLC are just people, obviously. I do think there is a lot of emotional cycling. Sometimes there is clarity, then running away from that clarity has shown them. So his motivation could just be what he sees as kindness. Although in the case of your H, he is perhaps trying to honour some of his responsibilities, right? Perhaps he is trying to hold onto some sort of 'good guy' image. And yes, also, guilt can play a part. Doesn't mean he is not in a crisis.

[Flummoxed]

Hey team, hope you're having a relatively decent day. (Goodness, what an abysmal way to open.)

xyzcf:

Thank you so much for sharing. I will definitely look into protein shakes- i've been finding textured foods just too high a wall to climb right now. I have some consultation visits upcoming for trauma IC's- i'm hoping one of them will be a good fit. My cousin also recommended perhaps exploring EMDR. I've only been exposed to CBT myself but maybe it could be an avenue to try. I'll have to look into Bach's Flower Rescue Sleep- I definitely wake up in the middle of the night sweaty with my heart racing, like a lead up to a panic attack or something. (Come to think of it, he reacted the same way after BD when I was trying to triage the situation and we had a few heart-to-hearts. I wonder if that means anything at all. He was still open to me comforting him then.) Maybe anti-anxiety meds are in my future- whatever to help the process. Thank you so much for sharing the diagram with me. I'm so sorry to all that it takes so long to get through this phase of grief. A small comfort: it's a sign that we care(d).

Thank you so much for sharing your experience- I am so incredibly sorry. Truly. Definitely trying to take things one day at a time, though he also threatened me financially in the same text so I'm just... totally and completely in shock.

"But this is his crisis and he needs you to accept and respect his needs. He needs to feel safe rather than judged. You are afraid a separation will become permanent. He is afraid of that fear in you".

This quote definitely helps; I'm trying to absorb it completely. I want to detach and let him live his life the way he feels he wants. I don't want to have him in my life as he is now, not after that monster attack (at least I'm assuming it's a monster attack). I had told him time and time again, if he doesn't want to be with me, to just tell me and leave. I guess I don't understand what is with the lashing out and the cruelty. He's already seeing someone else, he says it's serious, it seems all our local friends have been lied to about our relationship for a while- what does he gain from an additional attack? As much as I'm concerned about potential large scale repercussions of this AD, I'm working on letting it all go. To both give him space to figure himself out and for my sanity as a whole. But why pile additional rage on top of a such a traumatic blow?

Reaching the point that there is no way to change his crisis and acceptance that this is not the person that you married and loved for so long might be the point when things start to change for the better for you.

100%- I think I'm slowly making my way there with baby steps. May be too soon to tell but I feel myself pulled in that direction, of knowing that the man I was married to just simply no longer exists. Either that, or he's buried deep within himself and I have no way of knowing if I'll ever see him or a version of him again. It feels like a death. But viewing it that way does, or rather would, help if it wasn't for the attack.

I truly am so appreciative that this group exists. Thank you for being such a safe haven and sharing your experiences and wisdom.

KayDee:

Thank you so much. I definitely need to try to pull myself out from spiraling- may find some grass outside and watch the clouds as well. But it's good to know it's ok to just stick to the small group you know you can trust. I will do just that.

Although in the case of your H, he is perhaps trying to honour some of his responsibilities, right? Perhaps he is trying to hold onto some sort of 'good guy' image. And yes, also, guilt can play a part. Doesn't mean he is not in a crisis.

He did mention he felt he made a promise on our wedding day, which is why he was doing those acts of kindness. So I suppose it was simply a sense of responsibility over much of anything else. He 100% wants to display the good guy image- I have no idea what he has told our friends. One did reach out to see if I was ok- I didn't think of it at the time but I try not to wonder what that was about. I don't think going down that rabbit hole will provide any benefit. I agree- I do feel he's in a crisis. I do not feel he is himself and that he would act this way voluntarily. I guess I'm trying to make sense of something impossible to make sense of.

Until he comes out, if he ever comes out, and is willing to share with me his rationale, I will never understand. I'm reading Hearts Blessing's book and have read so much of the experiences shared in this forum so far from fellow LSBs and recovered MLCers and... I'm still lost. I'm sure he is too. Maybe this lashing out, the threat on top of the affair confession, was him entering the tunnel? He was flip flopping between home and work/AD until this second BD but he's said he'd give me time to process and leave our home- he would likely not return until I leave. I guess that's just that?

I'm sorry for rambling. I just... I always kept a safe space for him at home. I knew he needed space and I left him to it. Once in a while I would check in and I'm sure, looking retrospectively, that created pressure and made him uncomfortable. But the sudden uptick in cruelty- I don't know. The complete delusion regarding separation and divorce- I have no idea what is going on in his mind but it feels like a vortex of chaos. I know, logically, I need to step away and just move on. I cannot be a party to this. And I think he knew when he was being pulled as well- at BD, he said he needed the time and he didn't know if he'd love me again, but he hoped he would be able to.

Maybe that's just the end of our story. Like a little Greek tragedy. I think just writing this has helped me, at least for now, face the direction of simply moving on.

Sorry, all, I don't mean to be a downer. The more I try to think about it, the more it makes me wonder if we had a good relationship. He was pulled under by depression and anger in 2022- I feel like I need to work a little harder to remember the loving times. Maybe it's no wonder he can't access them at all. Maybe I'm not remembering our relationship right- I thought we were best friends and a team, but maybe I've just been naive all along.

Thank you all for listening.

[amazinglove]

Flummoxed - I find your responses so thoughtful and helpful too. Your self-awareness and analysis is really inspiring. I found myself flinching when when I read how you are re-analyzing your entire marriage, because I find myself doing much the same. It's excruciating. In the cold light of this betrayal, it makes everything look different doesn't it? All those times he was not there for me, he did not emotionally meet my needs (or even attempt to) because he could or would not, things he could have done for me, that he knew mattered to me, but did not do, those moments of selfishness and detachment and a critical gaze that grew bigger and bigger as we got closer to BD - and I find myself questioning, did I imagine that it was as good as I thought it was?
But i have to come back to the fact that I was living in it for 13 years and bottom line, I would have known if my marriage sucked. I am emotionally intuitive, intelligent, needy, anxiously attached, etc etc and if he was anything even close to the total creep/narcissist that he is right now, I would have noticed. Heck, my entire family and group of friends would have seen something - and they are all completely shocked at this turn of events. People who lived with us for months at a time are shocked. So, I think I've come round to the notion that while he's always had flaws, he's always been lacking in certain ways, we also had the kind of loving trust and loyalty and understanding that I thought we did, until we didn't.
It's just a way for us to beat ourselves up, going back over things and asking ourselves 'what did we miss'? it's another way of saying 'what could we have done differently in order to have avoided this outcome, starting with not marrying this fractured, pathetic mess of a human.
I think better to trust your own smarts, that we were not in some kind of lovesick denial and that in fact, the person you love/loved has drastically altered himself in a way that makes him unrecognizable and completely unworthy of you. The loving marriage you once had with him would be completely unattainable for him right now, with anyone, because he is incapable of being that man.
if he is like mine, he is living entirely for himSELF and doing anything and everything that makes him feel better about himself and his life. Mine is completely reinventing himself as a different person whose wife and kids are just kind of there in the background, objects he has no real responsibility for and he can pick up and put down as it suits him.  My H - the one I used to know - would never have done any of this and would have condemned loudly any man who did.
Basically it's NOT YOUR FAULT. None of this, including being drawn to him in the first place. 
I'm sorry you're going thru this. I'm about 10 months out from BD and probably a year since his EA began online - and he started to change towards me. It's been a long time, maybe even 2 years since I had a real partner or teammate in my marriage.
I still have love for him, the old him, but I am gradually learning to accept the version that exists now IRL. It's hard to do but I'm working on it. And then of course trying to figure out what changes for the good this can bring for me. How can I best grow thru this pain?

[zartheit]

I can relate to so much of what you wrote. I remember the relationship I had with my ex-wife as fun and loving. How was I so wrong about it all? Surely she wouldn't have tossed this all into the garbage for NO REASON! Clearly I am missing something; how can I be so blind? I spent an incredible amount of time panning for those flecks in my eyes. Every regret I ever had, every inconsiderate word or action, all surfaced... eventually. Each one a splinter that fractured us, I thought. It was immensely painful archeology. In the end, the conclusion I arrived at was that I am human. I am flawed but I am not evil. At the core of my interactions was love but also ignorance. The ignorance could have been mitigated if she were to have voiced her discontent. She didn't. I still don't know what upset her, only what I imagine upset her and areas where I felt I let myself down.

I want to emphasize how hard this experience is. I remember reading many posts, feeling awe and terror at the seeming distance between Here and There. Here was darkness, a maelstrom of frigid pain and sorrow. There was a city on a hill bathed in perpetual sunrise. How did they have such clarity? How were they able to distill or extract such insights? What is wrong with me?

There is NOTHING wrong with you. The foundation under your feet dissolved. You're in free fall. What was up is down, what was black is white. Your stomach is chained to center of a black void with the weight of the entire world pulling you into its empty maw. You can't eat. You can't sleep. You can't focus on anything but escaping the next punch. You never escape it.

I'm not going to tell you to NOT introspect. Honestly, it made me a better person and gave me more confidence on what was illusory and what was substantial. That being said, there's a time and a place; you will have plenty of time to analyze this. Don't worry!

This is a marathon. This takes time. It takes so much time. As my brother used to say, "you can't cram for exercise", and this is similar. This wisdom comes from being compassionate to yourself, from taking care of yourself, from loving yourself. If your friend broke their arm and was immediately trying to write a bunch of emails soliciting lawyers, and doctors, and media outlets, and psychologists using it you would tell them to listen to their pain and stabilize before they worry about that type of thing. You're in a similar position.

Sorry for the long winded rambly post. I very much relate to your words. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's unfair. To summarize: you're not alone, slow down (time is your friend).

[Flummoxed]

amazinglove:

You are so sweet; it's really all thanks to the experiences everyone else has shared. Totally helps a newbie learn and absorb, or at least attempt to! You are so right- if it was always lurking, others in our lives would not be so absolutely shocked by the outcome. I noticed his side hasn't reached out or made a peep though, friends or family, though it may be due to more lies I'm just not aware of. I don't want to dig in deeper- it doesn't feel like it's worth going into.

It's just a way for us to beat ourselves up, going back over things and asking ourselves 'what did we miss'? it's another way of saying 'what could we have done differently in order to have avoided this outcome, starting with not marrying this fractured, pathetic mess of a human.
I think better to trust your own smarts, that we were not in some kind of lovesick denial and that in fact, the person you love/loved has drastically altered himself in a way that makes him unrecognizable and completely unworthy of you. The loving marriage you once had with him would be completely unattainable for him right now, with anyone, because he is incapable of being that man.

Thank you so much for sharing this- honestly, this phrasing really packed a punch for me and I'm sitting with this truth.

I am so sorry to hear about your H. It sounds like he was also a really great guy before this (sickness? break?) situation took hold. I am sending love to you and your family; it is absolutely horrendous to be treated in such a way by someone you never thought could be capable of behaving that way.

I still have love for him, the old him, but I am gradually learning to accept the version that exists now IRL. It's hard to do but I'm working on it. And then of course trying to figure out what changes for the good this can bring for me. How can I best grow thru this pain?

That's amazing work- truly. I am trying to start the process as well, of detaching and just seeing life from my own lens. I hope to learn how to accept this alien version in the near term as well- it can only be good for us, right? I finished Hearts Blessing's book and it framed this time as an opportunity for growth for LBSs as well. Although I wish a step-by-step guide was available (if only), but I'm thinking aside from GAL (which is of course optimal), perhaps exploring spirituality, faith, philosophy- whatever is best and aligns with you. That and therapy if accessible. I think after diving in deep today, I'm looking forward to starting IC, clearing out the impact of my past traumas, and finding a way to live my life true to who I am. I say this as a person who barely leaves her bed at present, but we all have to start somewhere.

zartheit:

In the end, the conclusion I arrived at was that I am human. I am flawed but I am not evil. At the core of my interactions was love but also ignorance. The ignorance could have been mitigated if she were to have voiced her discontent. She didn't. I still don't know what upset her, only what I imagine upset her and areas where I felt I let myself down.

So, so true- thank you so much for sharing. I was beating myself up for all of the mistakes I had made, wondering if I had done something differently, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. But you're right- we are just human. We're bound to make mistakes but we do the best we can, fundamentally. And we moved with love and good faith. And now we are tearing our histories apart searching for answers, and it's just not going to be enough because our perspective doesn't hold enough of the facts. And even if it did, our person is no longer here with us, so maybe the point is moot. But maybe we can learn from some of our findings, take them as lessons for the future to accept and heal with.

This is a marathon. This takes time. It takes so much time. As my brother used to say, "you can't cram for exercise", and this is similar. This wisdom comes from being compassionate to yourself, from taking care of yourself, from loving yourself... To summarize: you're not alone, slow down (time is your friend).

I love "you can't cram for exercise"- so true. You know, I had seen so many statements around the goodness of having this time and at the start I really could not wrap my mind around it. Time felt (and sometimes now still feels) excruciatingly slow- I was panicking and couldn't imagine how seemingly boundless time was supposed to be a positive. It felt like I had no control. But I think I'm starting to understand now- we can use this time to focus on self-care, heal ourselves from this trauma, and work to build ourselves up into a stronger person entirely. Someone we can be so proud of and proceed to live life in a way that aligns with ourselves. And in that sense, we do have control and we do have goals to aspire to. So I am thankful to have time- thank you for reminding me that not everything has to happen all at once. Change is incremental and rarely linear. Also, please don't ever worry about a long rambly post- goodness knows I will submit the same.

I had a couple of IC consults today and I may move forward with one just to get the ball rolling. I've kept my sketchbook by the side of the bed but still haven't opened it yet. I watched half an episode of a much beloved TV show last night before it got to be too much. But somehow I tore thorough Hearts Blessing's book- go figure. But it did help me pull my focus away from the MLCer in my life and reframe my perspective onto what I can control. Reduce stimuli that reminds me of him, reach out to good friends (I laughed!) for casual chats, daydream of completely unrelated smaller goals I would like to achieve in the relatively short term and how I would go about achieving them. I've started imaging what my life could be like instead of hyperfocusing on my life that was. And I'm really proud of that, because this isn't it. There is so much more.

[Flummoxed]

When does this feeling in your gut go away? That squirmy, nauseous, can throw up at any moment feeling?

I meditated last night for the first time since before BD2 and it helped more than I expected it to. Got a decent amount of sleep but still woke up in a panic.

I don’t think anyone believes me when I say I think it’s an MLC. The therapists didn’t, my family doesn’t… I haven’t opened up to friends yet. My family is in complete shock though and agree it’s out of character behavior by leaps and bounds.

I know what I need to do. Logically, I know I just need to let go. But I find myself preparing for the next onslaught (the best I can). I know there will be another blow- he’s already taken so much but I’m still in the world, aren’t I? But you can never actually prepare, can you? I’ve only just started working on detachment- I know it’s the key to getting these attacks to roll off your back. I have handed him to a higher power, and just want to focus on myself.

I don’t know where I’m going with this. I feel like I’m cycling between depression, bargaining, and acceptance. I know I need to sit with my emotions, but my tendency is to solve the issue first and then feel when the urgency is gone. I don’t know how to accept that I can’t rush healing and detachment.

I had spent the past year embracing GAL before BD2- I thought I was on my way. Sure, I’d check in once in a while but I was enjoying my life the best I could on my own and keeping myself busy. But this second BD… it feels like it’s wiped the slate clean. Like everything I knew to be true turned out to be a lie. Like I’m starting almost all over from scratch. Almost only because I know I’ve done it before and I can do it again. But is this expected at every turn? If there is another BD, if there is another change that I simply won’t expect, is this just going to happen again? Or will I build resilience to it until I walk away or stop caring entirely?

I’m at a loss. I’m grieving what was but understand he is no longer the person I lost. I need to heal and let go.

[xyzcf]

I don’t know how to accept that I can’t rush healing and detachment.

I am glad that meditation helped you...baby steps...moments when that feeling in your gut is quieted. I had always practiced yoga and that helped alot but I was surprised to find that when I took up golf, the few seconds before I hit the ball, were moments of deep peace.

The length of time it takes depends on many factors. Each of us are different with different beliefs, our marriages our different, the reltionship we had with our spouses are different.

Many of us are "fixers"....we desperately want to do something to fix this.

I read many how to books to save your marriage, I would devour one and then head back to Barnes and Nobles to find another..until it finally hit me that this was not a marriage problem...this was not about me...it wasn't just an intellectual knowledge, I really knew this to be true.

Try perhaps not to wonder when this will end but know that it will end.

Do the things that make you find peace. I found doing volunteer work also helped me a lot in the early times...and eventually found a volunteer agency that I have been a part of for 12 years which became a passion of mine.

Keep writing here. We do know what you are going through.

[Flummoxed]

xyzcf:

Thank you so much for your guidance!  I’m trying to reframe to accept that this will end. That definitely helps, to leave it less open-ended. That’s amazing that you’ve found your passion in volunteering! I will definitely need to work to return to things that brought me peace… truly the things I was doing just a couple weeks ago.

Hoping to reintroduce walks, reading, maybe some gardening. And once the peace grows and I feel stronger, maybe getting back to the gym, diving back into philosophy, and yoga. And I will definitely keep writing- I’m sure we can all agree how therapeutic it is to be able to have a group to discuss and grow from this

A little update for the day: I broke open my sketchbook and doodled around- it felt great to be focusing on something, anything, else. A bit short-lived but baby steps. It just felt good to create though- to feel like I’m adding something good into the world in these early stagnant days.

I also moved out of the bedroom and into the broader living space. (Progress!) My goal is to head outside tomorrow- take in some Vitamin D and fresh air. Maybe put my feet on grass and get grounded.

I’m also looking into learning more about mirror work. Do you think it may be too early for a person like me to be jumping into that though? Sometimes I feel like I’m being impatient about my healing, but at other times I feel like BD happened 1.5 years ago and I had been slowly living a life of my own until BD 2 (for the most part)- so the transition back into building and bettering isn’t actually that big of a leap.

[xyzcf]

Good evening Flummoxed,

You made "progress" today...baby steps...some days you will move a bit more towards peace and calm and acceptance and other days you may slip back into despair. After a relatively long time of moving forward, something that happened that sent me back, badly....my therapist told me to look at my healing like a slinky toy and that even though I might have moved back, I would not slink back to anywhere near the beginning. That visual gave me hope that I was still OK.....battered and bruised a bit but the spiral started to move forward again.

I smiled at what you already inherently know...the stepping out onto the grass...she also told me to stand barefoot in the grass and center myself...I told her I couldn't do that because there are snakes in the grass and I don't like snakes  ...but anything that can connect you to your center will calm your nervous system.

There is a technique that she taught me called resetting the vagus nerve.

"Some say that eye movements can help reset the vagus nerve, which is the longest cranial nerve in the body that carries information between the brain and organs in the chest and abdomen.

Lying down
Lie on your back with your hands behind your head and feel the weight of your head in your fingers. Keep your head centered and turn only your eyes to the right as far as you can comfortably. Hold this position for up to a minute. You may feel a yawn, sigh, or swallow. then turn your eyes to the left until you feel a yawn, sigh or swallow."

There are several other ways to reset the vagus nerve and you are already aware of one...meditation.

Definitely exercise helps as it releases serotonin which makes you feel better. I walked, a lot....outside is best, somewhere in nature is really helpful. I did not have the energy to do gym workouts, something I had always loved but eventually I was able to return to classes at the gym...but I did try to walk every single day.

As for mirror work and whether it's too early...you have nothing to lose by trying anything that helps you....perhaps try not to be too ambitious to try and fit too much into your life....my therapist is a mind/body specialist so something as simple as deep abdominal breathing can be very beneficial ...but if you feel up to doing whatever work helps...then go for it..and give yourself credit for finding what works.

Another incredible tool is Yoga Nidra...you just lie down and listen to the practitioner without moving, and the hard part is not to fall asleep. 20 minutes of yoga nidra is equivalent to 3-4 hours of REM sleep. You might find that you feel quite refreshed after.

I love this 20 min yoga nidra video and there are many online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H0FKzeuVVs

I am not an artist, no talent there but I also would draw things that were quite surprising as I tried to explore my inner world and figure out how to find myself again. Lots of colors and information of what I was feeling in various parts of my body...it was quite cathartic.

Don't be in a hurry...teach yourself to slow down a bit in your quest to become whole again...recognize small gains. Buy yourself some flowers. I planned a few trips...

I love dogs and did not have one when BD happened...eventually I rescued a yellow lab and she was incredibly intuitive and helpful to my mental health.

So as you see, there are so many ways to "get there"...but you know the fable of the Tortoise and the Hare:

"What is the moral of The Tortoise and the Hare?
The hare is very confident of winning, so it stops during the race and falls asleep. The tortoise continues to move very slowly but without stopping and finally it wins the race. The moral lesson of the story is that you can be more successful by doing things slowly and steadily than by acting quickly and carelessly."

There is a phrase that has been used here...this is a marathon, not a race so you need to pace yourself because it is a long journey to wellness...but if you take care, you will get there.

Good job today!

[Flummoxed]

xyzcf:

Thank you so much for sharing your slinky analogy! I love it- you were so right. The day after my last post I definitely felt a pull back. But it's nice to know that that doesn't mean I'm falling all the way back. It's just a little bounce back as I make my way forward.

  Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be stepping in any grass if there were potential snakes either- yikes! 100%- I'm looking forward to spending time outside today and recentering. Thank you so much for sharing the vagus nerve reset! I tried it a couple of times, but I haven't gotten the hang of it yet. However, I'm excited to add the technique to my toolbelt and will keep trying.

Yeah, I think the gym was a very ambitious goal to set at the time. But walks are doable now, so that is exciting. I love yoga nidra! Thank you so much for sharing the link with me- I will give it a try. I've tried a few by Ally Boothroyd on YouTube, albeit before BD2, and highly recommend those as well. Such a great way to fall asleep.

Oh my goodness, sending virtual pats to your lab! What a sweetheart; I am so happy for you. I love dogs as well though was never in a position to get one before. Maybe someday when I am in a more solid space.

I'm definitely impatient- I just want to be fine again. Not like I was completely fine before, but I was what feels like further along than I am now. But, you're right; I have to just remind myself that this is now and that was then. Comparison is the thief of joy. I will have to remember to keep trucking along with determination and be ok with the small steps forward- embrace my inner tortoise!

Journaling:

I conducted a deep dive into the archives and came across lawprofessor's old posts. At first I wanted to learn more about J's journey, to better understand the MLCer mindset (all full knowing I need to turn my attention inward). But then I read more about FOO issues and parallel journeys. And, of course, these items are touched on in Hearts Blessing's book, but I feel like LP's words really stuck with me. So I had a bit of a think and dug into my memory to try to see if I could find any patterns.

H and I both have siblings that required a lot of support as children and continue to require support to this day. Both our fathers were generally absent; I am sure they were just both working hard. His father did bond with the kids during time off, though my dad is another story for another time. Lots to unpack there through IC; lucky me.

Although our mothers were our primary parent, as they were largely busy with work and the other sibling, we both fundamentally had to raise ourselves. That being said, his mom is a typical boy mom where her son can do no wrong. She even said as much to my mom on our wedding day; I only learned about this recently, and although shocked am not surprised. He wouldn't have to do a thing at home- everything would be handled by her. To me, it feels as though there are no boundaries in place.

My mom, who I love wholeheartedly, did not have the bandwidth to take on two kids. She was a single parent and I saw her struggle, so I did my best to pick up the slack to lessen her stress. From an early age, I took on more and more, having to grow up faster than I really should have. I became more of a friend than a dependent. I love her to pieces, but my mom has a habit of helping every person she meets who seems to  need a little support. And until I collapsed from BD2, her focus went from child to child, focusing all her efforts outside without really ever turning around to check on her kid that went without.

Referencing LP's words, I think it really was the build of the perfect storm. The pandemic hit and we moved across the country to his parents' place to help them out. I could feel him regressing in the months we were there- he went from a previously independent man to an overgrown teen. He'd leave his used dishes by the sink and wouldn't care for the house unless asked directly by his parent to complete a chore. He just dove into his laptop for hours on end, on and off work hours, and no one questioned it. But I could see the change.

Eventually, we moved to a nearby city, thankful to have our own space again. However, I noticed he did not bounce back to his previous levels of independence. He carried on with the new status quo and allocated his time to either work or the support of his local friends (I was relegated to last priority). And me, with my history, began picking up the slack to lessen the stress. And we continued on this trend for at least a year with resentment starting to build from both sides. I was getting frustrated by having to take on the load of two people and getting barely a thanks as acknowledgement. He was getting frustrated that our intimacy was decreasing (because who would want to sleep with someone when they feel like a mother, maid, and hole?). He dove deeper into work/"work" and friends, while I continued to manage our lives as if on autopilot. We were both getting frustrated, but I think we both felt the other should change.

The depression/anger stage began shortly after and I think the rest is history. After BD1, I dove into self-help and listened to everything Brene Brown had published. I realized I hadn't enforced boundaries of my own; I just did everything I did in the name of compromise for the relationship. But somewhere along the way, I had lost myself. So I started enforcing boundaries, being kinder to myself, and finding joy in my life. He was still at home back then and when he came back from his trips, I think he saw a happier me. Who knows, but I'd like to think so.

Granted, BD2 was a shot to the heart. But I've found a trauma IC to work with and I'm looking forward to unpacking my FOO issues, learning how to hone and strengthen my boundaries, and resolve my codependent tendencies once and for all.

I'm scared of aftershocks of monster, but I am looking forward to developing the tools to hold my own and grow from this experience.

Thanks for listening.

[Flummoxed]

Finally felt anger. And it felt really firetrucking good. To processing!

[Flummoxed]

Does anyone have any tips on thought switching? I feel like no matter what, I keep thinking about this subject and I would really like to focus on centering my mind on the activity I’m engaged in. Meditation has seemed to work for brief periods of time, but any other recommendations that have worked for you all? Thanks!

[Treasur]

I found counting backwards was surprisingly helpful (uses a different bit of the brain). I also picked up some old hobbies like embroidery and knitting that needed the attention of my eyes and hands. Listened to a lot of podcasts too on things like history and scientific subjects that were engaging enough to take some of my mental attention.

In a more immediate way, the most effective in the moment thing I found was to physically move my body to move my mindset. I’d just get up and go for a walk or dance in the kitchen or clean a toilet….anything that just involves moving my body really. 😝

[Flummoxed]

Treasur:

Thank you so much for sharing! I’m going to try it all- I’m definitely getting sucked into thinking about this way too much and just need to stay truly occupied. Maybe I need to start scheduling out my days so I’m always on the move.

Kind of a random question, but have you experienced some of your things going missing after BD? I’ve noticed small things of mine have been turning up lost- I’m pretty organized so I don’t believe they’ve been misplaced. I tried to ask H back then, but he denied knowing anything- I now know he can’t be trusted. I’m not sure if it’s a mind game or something… as you can see, I’m getting quite tired of this. I just want to get back to some kind of “normal”.

[BurnedBridge]

Hi Flummoxed,

A thing that has really helped me is the 5,4,3,2,1 technique which is more about grounding yourself in the moment instead of getting carried away with thoughts.

Identify 5 things you see around you
4 things you can touch
3 things you can hear
2 things you can smell
1 thing you can taste

It is meant to bring you back to the present moment. Also, something that really helped me was scheduling time to worry. Basically setting an alarm every day at a particular time and giving yourself 15 minutes or more to worry about anything you feel you want to worry about. Then after that time is done, if you feel a worry or thought come on, you can say, "I'll worry about that during my worry time".

I'm right there with you, though. This subject has taken over. I've tried to give myself grace and hopefully you are doing the same because this is traumatizing and incredibly confusing to go through. Our worlds get shaken up, one person walks away different than we remember them but like nothing happened meanwhile we are still our same selves on wobbly legs not knowing which way is up. It is a theft of your reality.

Maybe dive into a hobby you really enjoy that you find you zone everything out during. Drawing is one of those things for me.

[Flummoxed]

BurnedBridge:

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for sharing these with me as well! I will be adding them to my arsenal. Especially setting a designated time to worry and research- I definitely get sucked down the rabbit hole but by setting limits, I can bring myself to think and do other things (hopefully)! I love it- thank you again.

That’s exactly it! And it leaves you questioning if anything was real. I mean, nothing is ever perfect, but it was still something great… I think? Which then triggers a spiral and more research. *Sigh*

I’ve been coloring! I tried to draw as well but my mind was just blank outside of positive affirmations and advice. Maybe I’ll start making amigurumi again-  my nieces will get a kick out of that. I’ll give reading another go as well- attempt to get lost in fiction.

I had taken some notes when he wanted some space- I wanted a place to put down my questions and feelings during a time of no contact.  Just about a year ago, about 7 months after BD, he had told me his greatest fear was losing me. And I didn’t get it at the time because the AD wasn’t out in the open and I didn’t know much about MLC at the time- I thought he just needed time to get his mind right. So now my mind is spinning wondering if this was a lie to keep me hooked or if this was the real him in the midst of it all trying to make a connection before getting lost again. I really want to think it’s the latter, but I understand I may never know. I have a feeling he’s finally into the darker parts of the tunnel now and the rest is up to a higher power.

[Flummoxed]

lol maybe it was never real. I’m spiraling, all. Off to further distract. I don’t know how ya’ll do it- this is madness.

[Flummoxed]

I spoke with a friend today, working through the issue. He advised I just take the actions at face value, that H has been an @$$hole, and move forward accordingly. And I think he’s right. Because, as much as I would love to believe this is MLC, as much as I see him following the script, that doesn’t change the reality of the situation that I find myself in now. I have to pull myself up, fight my way back to the forefront, and live my life for me.

And I know this advice has been shared a million times in this forum, but for some reason I think the way it was delivered this time really hit. At least, here’s to hoping. So I’ll be taking longer steps away to just focus on myself- will be sharing periodic updates as I can. At this time though, it looks like I’ve got a Vanisher and who knows if he’ll ever come back around.

Sending much love and hope for you all. You all have been nothing but a source of light and love and I send nothing but positivity and faith your way. Thank you for being such an amazing group; I do hope things get better and better with just a smidge more time.

[Treasur]

I must admit that I found this lens on what happened, practically speaking, worked for me too. Eventually lol bc it took me much longer than you to see that the reality of the What was not changed by my exhausting earnest speculation about the Why.

That’s not a ‘good news’ take so it makes me careful in my posts to newbies tbh. Again jmo but I think the value of MLC as a Why was not about what had happened or even was happening, or was going to happen next, was more about finding a shorthand to explain things I just found inexplicable without losing my marbles! And I think to underly the principle that, whatever the cause, it really had very little to do with me and I had very little effect  on (or responsibility for) my former h’s actions. Bc it really was a very strange and painful life experience.

On your question of what was real. Or not. (And most LBS spend time circling round that one, it’s normal). Again jmo, but my best take ended up being a percentages game. My 50% of our relationship was real.. I felt what I felt and I did not imagine the relationship as I experienced it. It was real to me and I was real in it. The 50% that was my husband? Well, I can’t know that but rationally the answer probably lies in the middle somewhere. Bc I am not delusional and I didn’t imagine a fantasy h for twenty years lol, not did anyone else who knew us. At the same time - which is why imho direct and indirect lies are so corrosive not the easy escapes that MLC types seem to treat them as - what was real to me must have been part but not all of the truth of my then h. Bc if he had loved and respected and valued me as I believed he did, he simply would not have been able to do some of the things he did in the way he did it. I could not have done them to him certainly even when his behaviour was awful. So let’s say 25% of his 50% was real, maybe on a declining scale over time from 50% to 1% post BD? If I play with the maths, that probably evens out at something like 20% overall of his 50% so about 70% real overall including his reality and mine say.

And 70% is not nothing, is it?
I think MLC types create a narrative of 0% to themselves and maybe others to justify their behaviour. They use words like never and always. They blame us for things that are normal human failings while avoiding owning their own rather more dramatic contributions to the end of their marriages. To seemingly expect perfection while being extraordinarily imperfect themselves. Largely I think bc that is how they make it feel comfortable to do what they do and how they sell themselves in a new relationship. It becomes their truth probably but that does not make it THE truth. Bc the alternative is messier and sadder and harder, not so shiny at all and not so absolute.

Which is why I think it’s important for LBS to not rush to embrace the same extremes in judging their own past reality but to let it unfold for them over time. To reach their own instinctive judgement about what was real to/for them until it wasn’t as part of finding some kind of acceptance about where you are now.  Bc that reclaims your right to own your own past life, doesn’t it, and that can feel terribly important in one’s own recovery.

Imho it is self evident that my xh did not love and value me in the way I thought he did or in how he looked like he did for twenty years. That perhaps even what we mean by ‘love’ is different. But I am not stupid and I am not delusional so I am confident (now lol) that I did not create an imaginary life and marriage. And I would have felt rather blessed to have been loved as I loved my h, so if that’s true, it’s a big loss for both of us even at 70%ish. But it was his choice to discard it all, and even if owife is a goddess of perfection, those twenty years can’t be recreated for either of us. And my former h took his mindset on these things with him into his new life, for good or ill. But that does not mean I have to carry it with me into mine.  I refuse to throw my version of the baby out with the bath water just bc he did 😝

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much, Treasur. Honestly, that was truly beautiful and I thank you so much for sharing with me. It definitely helped shift my perspective. No, our experience was still real- their behavior doesn’t change that. And it is highly, highly doubtful that they could have been at a 0 for so long- approx 70% makes sense to me. And that’s no small sum.

100%- the MLC label makes it feel like what is happening makes sense. That there’s a process, that people have lived through it and survived- the label alone can help with processing for sure. I think I’m still trying to understand that it didn’t have to do with me or us- that it really is just his issue and his alone. I still have so many moments of wondering what if I didn’t do this or that or the other thing. Was he always this unhappy- he is conflict avoidant. Maybe there were signs, clues, that I may have missed. I’ve watched enough procedurals to think I can be a detective in all this. But I’m having a hard time accepting it’s all him. I don’t know how to let that go. And because of that, I’m struggling to understand if it really is MLC or not. He used to say it was all him, that I did nothing wrong, but shortly before BD 2 he started saying we had bad communication and started picking at the relationship more. I guess I don’t know what to think- I know they tend to lie and lie, but aren’t there kernels of truth as well?

This certainly is a horrendous and gruesome experience. If it is MLC, I’m terrified  and hurt for them all. I only have a history of general, boring depression and I know it can be exhausting to get through any part of the day. But my goodness, to add the additional layers of confusion, mania, and an addictive person- I fear for them. And understand why hitting rock bottom is so important, because I don’t know if they have the strength or drive to get out of it otherwise.

It becomes their truth probably but that does not make it THE truth.

Really needed to hear this today- thank you. <3 And you are right- by accepting what I believe we had was real, my own truth, it does feel more powerful as it was my reality. I lived that and no one can take that from me.

No, neither of us are delusional at all. Thank you for reminding me to hold on to the good and embrace what was. Just because he changed his mind and tried to recreate it into something ugly, in my heart of hearts I know it was something truly special and worth holding on to. The fact that at the very least that a relationship like that was 70% real… it’s definitely worth holding onto fondly with a special place in one’s heart.

Had a rough day yesterday since it was his birthday. Last year, 6 months after BD 1, he told me he would spend it with his parents and that he did not want me to text him since it would make him feel guilty. I respected his space. This year, I just kept busy. I haven’t said a word since BD 2. I just spoke to a friend who recommended I work to move on.

I understand it’s for the best- I don’t know if he is in MLC. I feel like he is, though everyone else thinks I’m in denial. But the little blips of him, so tired and confused and real, before BD 2- I feel like if you haven’t witnessed or experienced it yourself, it is so easy to dismiss. Everyone I talk to recommends getting my strength back- I also don’t want my own depression to circle back around. But there’s also such a push to get out there- get dolled up and start dating again. I can still have kids if I get back out there- gotta go freeze my eggs and get back on the dating scene. (Is what I’m told- not what I believe or am ready for.)

That’s why I’m so thankful this group exists. Although I understand there’s more activity in FB, I can’t bring myself to go on social media while all this is happening.

He’s basically vanished, in my mind. Maybe it doesn’t count until the silence goes on for a longer stretch. I guess we’ll find out, won’t we? He stopped paying his share of the bills- I’m going to be toughing it out until we get our ducks in a row. On the one hand, I’m happy he’s deeper in the tunnel and I hope he can process and grow stronger. On the other hand, I’m still not sure if it’s MLC. But he’s trying to change his job, his home, and his relationship while distancing from old friends… it just isn’t a standard breakup.  I can feel it in my bones.

Once the chaos dies down (don’t know if that’s laughable or not), I’m thinking of moving. At least, in my position, it’s just me. And as lonely as that can be, i also don’t know how I would deal if we had kids. The allure of a clean slate is refreshing, I can admit that- I can understand the draw for sure. Then I wonder if maybe I’m just doing exactly what he’s doing, only with a little more intention.

Perhaps something to unpack at a later date. Sorry for the long and rambling post to nowhere. <3

[Flummoxed]

I just realized he had tried to buy me out of our home during both BD 1 and BD 2- so nothing I did in the year and a half between had any impact at all. He was committed to removing me from his life and had thought about it extensively beforehand to come up with a number and recommendations for places I should move to. I’m just in a daze. I want to believe it’s MLC, but I’m just not sure.

[Reinventing]

But he’s trying to change his job, his home, and his relationship while distancing from old friends

Sounds like MLC to me. Yes, MLCers do things that show a lack of empathy and they plan things to remove us from their lives--or they remove themselves from our lives.

It is very unsettling to realize the steps they take and the planning that has been happening that the LBS sees in retrospect.

To realize that you have been living with and trusting someone who is undermining you is a hard reality of this whole thing. Quite chilling, in fact.

[forthetrees]

If he has stopped paying bills please strategize because this process can drag out for far longer than you may consider at this point. Don´t knowingly join the ranks of LBSers who ended up in financial straits due to MLCer actions or inactions.

Thanks to you I went into my audio files last night and listened to a lot of songs I wrote in the thick of the MLC/LBS journey. I was looking for a song I wrote called "River" as in "I cried you a river, my eyes have run dry." It gets more optimistic as the song goes on:) Know that it gets better, really, truly it does. But- along the way there are some stretches of a lot of pain- gird yourself.

[Flummoxed]

Reinventing:

Thank you so much for confirming! Truly- it is so bizarre. I thought we were working on things, but he just lied to my face the entire time (probably before and) after BD1 as he planned his exit strategy. How do you regain trust in yourself and others again?  He lied to all of our mutual friends and his family and they believed him- I guess I just no longer have this giant group of people in my life?

forthetrees:

100%- I’m not ready to share much yet (simply due to paranoia- but can you blame me?). Thankfully, most of our finances were separate during our marriage. He did end up paying our mortgage payment in full this month (a first in our marriage- I’m usually in charge of managing bills- at his insistence, by the way)- I think it correlates to him thinking our home is his alone as he expects to buy me out and cast off his old life.

I love that you wrote songs throughout your journey; channeling the chaos into something beautiful. I’m glad the song gets more optimistic with time! As much as I hate to hear that there will likely be more pitfalls along the way, I do appreciate the warning. To be honest, I assumed once we go our separate ways, that’ll be that until maybe 10 years down the line he may potentially wake up. The little blips of the real him have been so short in the last year and a half and it seems like he is well and truly gone now. We weren’t married for decades- we were together for just about one. Standing doesn’t sound right with those numbers and his behavior. I don’t foresee touch and goes- maybe I’m just hurt, but at this point, what’s the point in holding onto a connecting thread that someone’s desperately clawed their way through?

[Flummoxed]

Took a nap after work today- does anyone else feel perpetually exhausted? But I got hit by a beautiful dream of so many ways  my H had loved me over the years. I woke up (dare I say it?) happy- happy in knowing those moments were real. Despite what’s going on now- those were real. I would bet my life on it and I am so thankful to have lived those moments and to have those memories to cherish.

[Reinventing]

How do you regain trust in yourself and others again?

You learn to trust in yourself even more in this process. You see through BS more clearly and set your limits earlier and more definitively. And you know you're going to survive and thrive.

But I got hit by a beautiful dream of so many ways  my H had loved me over the years. I woke up (dare I say it?) happy- happy in knowing those moments were real.

Yes, it is good to get to the point of being happy with happy memories, even if they are tinged with a bit of sadness that comes with looking back on things.

[KayDee]

I just realized he had tried to buy me out of our home during both BD 1 and BD 2- so nothing I did in the year and a half between had any impact at all. He was committed to removing me from his life and had thought about it extensively beforehand to come up with a number and recommendations for places I should move to. I’m just in a daze. I want to believe it’s MLC, but I’m just not sure.

Not sure if this helps or not - but this kind of practical, business like thinking, for some, can be decoupled from the emotional side, so it is possible he was doing this in a very cold, practical manner, to take back control of a life he felt out of control of. (not excusing this, BTW).  You had already had the BD, so if he is in crisis, then he was in escape-mode already - it won't just go away alas. And this was just another action based on running away. Truly, I know how discovering something like that can hit hard - right between the eyes. I know I thought that if my H seemed reasonable or functional about somethings then he could not be in crisis - but one needs to look at the climate, not the weather. It can be tempting to think that they are cool, calculating and with a plan and there are elements of that, but generally the long-term thinking is absent. And think about it, if he is lying to everyone, what does that tell you? All you can do, is keep your truth, keep you integrity and only do things for what's best for you now.

I know what you mean about trusting again - I am going through this now. I started with trusting friends and family. They helped me trust myself again.

[forthetrees]

That´s a great phrase, "Look at the climate, not the weather."

[MadLuv]

My XH definitely distanced way before right before my eyes. We bought a second home “ for his work” he accepted a job “traveling” those both may have been needed, but they also fit into his need to have his space, because well he was not happy and didn’t know why. I think they need time alone to keep their mask on. They aren’t sure where they are going and they don’t want out until they are sure. Once they make that decision to leave many are still not sure and as my XH said, you were my security blanket.

It’s hard and deflating to realize how long their minds have been in a swirl of disconnect and indecision. I actually feel for me the more I realized, found and discovered helped me feel a little less crazy.

[Flummoxed]

Reinventing, KayDee, forthetrees, and MadLuv, thank you all so much for your insights and guidance. I’m currently waiting to catch a flight back to our city (for now) to begin packing up my things. I’ve been staying at my mom’s since BD 2, borrowing clothes my brother left behind. I had been on a weekend trip when I got his text and packed very little… hoping packing will help move me forward a bit. I even went for a run this morning. But I’m sitting here in the airport on the verge of tears. He came here, to my home city, to conduct his affair under the guise of work. So it feels like he ruined my favorite place while I waited for him in a city where I was isolated and alone. I don’t want to grant him this power, but I don’t know how to stop.

Reinventing:

Thank you so much. It is lovely to have these beautiful memories- it reminds me he is not that person anymore. That person would have never done what he has done. He knew exactly how to leave the most damage- I should have let him go at BD 1. I just really thought I could help and make a difference. I will have a sharper eye for BS now, that’s for certain.

KayDee:

That makes complete sense to me, about trying to regain control. And there wasn’t a way he could tell me this in person- I think I make him comfortable and he hates that, I guess.  So cowardice it is. He’s absolutely in escape mode- I don’t think I realized until only recently though. Hindsight’s 20/20. He absolutely seems cool, calm, and collected- he’s even planning to meet with my family to explain his side of the story.  It feels practically sociopathic. I guess I don’t understand the patterns or thinking here- I’ve tried to scour the forum but I’m still lost. What do you all think?

Honestly, I don’t know what the lies to everyone mean. Can you please share your insights?  I was talking to my mom and she felt that bit especially showed forethought and planning.

I also really appreciate “look at the climate, not the weather”. I’m trying to reframe and look at the bigger picture.

I’m still coming to terms with this new reality. I’ve opened up to my family, but not my friends just yet. Hopefully soon though- I’d love to get to a relatively more solid place again with my support system.

MadLuv:

I think we may have similar experiences here. Having to travel that much for work, just looking at homes for curiosity and potential investments. The lies flowed off his tongue with ease. Even up to a few days before BD 2, he opened up to me and told me he didn’t know what he wanted and what made him happy. That he was confused and could not be in a relationship until he figured himself out. He even said I could decorate the bedroom I was staying in because I had expressed interest, though he had made comments prior alluding to a future move. Truly one foot in and one foot out until he sent that text and made his decision. I don’t think he could tell me in person- he is too comfortable with me and I guess I trigger him to be open and vulnerable and he doesn’t want that right now. He truly just incinerated his relationship with the only person that really knew the old him.

I think I’m still trying to come to terms with it because it still feels like he planned the lying to our mutuals, the move into a new relationship, the search for a new home. Logically, I understand the long-term follow-through isn’t there but it just doesn’t feel that way? It feels like he went out of the way to destroy what we had to the nth degree over the course of the past 1.5+ years- wouldn’t that require premeditation?

[Treasur]

Have you taken legal advice, Flummoxed? Particularly on the pros and cons of leaving the house you own together and packing up your stuff to live elsewhere? It’s ok and understandable if you feel you want to be somewhere else to lick your wounds and rebuild, but imho you should take legal advice.

On the wider issue of lies, premeditation etc….
It sounds as if you are struggling with some kind of rather black bs white way of viewing things, an either/or as opposed to a both/and perhaps. Or a belief that if your spouse doesn’t look completely bonkers to the outside world, then what he is saying is the truth? And should be your truth too?

Imho humans have an amazing capacity for telling ourselves a story in our head that justifies our own poor behaviour. And we tend to hang onto that story until/unless reality forces us to replace it. But we are not obliged to buy in to other peoples’ stories just bc they want us to if they don’t match up with our own reality. A healthy human adult imho has the ability to question their own stories and accept that others may see things differently and that they are not the centre of everyone else’s universe. Tbh, for a while, most LBS struggle with this too - it’s a normal reaction to trauma imho - and it can take a little while to get a clear lens on one’s own story and one’s own presenting reality.

I was minded of this reading a recent article about Prince Harry seemingly now wanting to repair some of the family and country bridges he burned. (Taken with an adult punch of salt of course bc well, media stories, right lol) But let’s say some part of it is true, that his new life in the US had not entirely panned out as he thought it would. It seems to me that he had a narrative in his head, whether one agrees with it or not, that drove his actions. And that creating that new life involved strings of decisions to create it and film it and write about it. And that there were some pretty predictable effects that came with some of those choices, but some of those seem to have come as a bit of an unwelcome surprise perhaps.

Imho MLC types - even bog standard unfaithful types - seem to approach life in a similar way. I don’t think they are all budding Machiavellis with some great long term plan and often seem to find themselves a bit surprised down the line when they get exactly what they created. I think they are emotionally reactive, not so good at the principles of cause and effect, and remarkably self-centred. Like teenagers with credit cards really 😜 They lie bc it’s easier than telling the truth. They blame others bc it’s more comfortable than holding themselves accountable. They do what they do in the way they do bc in the moment they can and choose to and bc it fits their own story….and they are not much interested in accepting the equal validity of someone else’s story. Like a teenager wailing about their awful parents ruining their life by insisting they tidy their bedroom or get up before midday….

Of course most teenagers grow up…..
They learn that lying has effects, that if you behave like an a$$hat people will start to see you as an a$$hat, that if you want other humans to treat you with respect and grace you need to do the same a bit more.
However some adults….and most MLCers….seem to have skipped that life stage and find themselves having to learn it later. Or in some cases, not. 🙄

Prioritising the legal and financial situation, and your own well-being, is the adult thing imho. It is dealing with the presenting factual reality as far as you can see it. Whereas spending too much time trying to parse the workings of someone else’s head is not so helpful usually.

It may be worth asking yourself what you DO factually know to be true. So, for example, do you know that your h has lied to you? And if so, in your mind, does that make him someone whose words are worth placing weight on or not? Regardless of what anyone else thinks. And asking yourself what the answers to your probably (normally) endless questions about his intent and rationale and mindset would give you if someone could wave a magic wand and come up with 100% accurate answers? If you 100% knew what you feel you don’t know now, what practically changes for you? What, if anything, would you do differently right now?

I say this with a big dollop of virtual love that you can’t see all the way over there though. Imho one of the normal things distressed and traumatised brains tend to do - and I’d bet we have all done it, I have - is try to make some kind of sense out of what makes no sense to us. It’s how our reptilian brains try to keep us safe, the life equivalent of trying to figure out if something is a shadow or a tiger. And bc feeling helpless is deeply scary so a bit of our brain subconsciously feels that if we can understand it, we can control it or fix it.

Again jmo but a lot of LBS have been gloriously screwed over in practical ways while their brains are trying to distinguish tigers from shadows. Bc in reality, whatever is going on started before BD, and we LBS are playing catch up for a while. And imho the way past that is to be kind to yourself while being as accurate as you can be about the facts you can see….to trust your own instinct that you don’t have to wait for a tiger to formally introduce itself to know it’s a tiger lol. And that the tiger What matters more than the tiger Why when it comes to taking care of yourself. Bc the bite can kill you whether the tiger planned it or not, was happy to bite you or felt bad about it later lol.

So, in essence, what matters most - and no one else can decide this for you - is if you see your h as a real life tiger right now and what you think you need to do to safeguard yourself from the effects of what is actually happening the best you can. If the tiger turns out to be a fat marmalade tabby down the road, you can always adjust your lens after all.

[KayDee]

That makes complete sense to me, about trying to regain control. And there wasn’t a way he could tell me this in person- I think I make him comfortable and he hates that, I guess.  So cowardice it is. He’s absolutely in escape mode- I don’t think I realized until only recently though. Hindsight’s 20/20. He absolutely seems cool, calm, and collected- he’s even planning to meet with my family to explain his side of the story.  It feels practically sociopathic. I guess I don’t understand the patterns or thinking here- I’ve tried to scour the forum but I’m still lost. What do you all think?

Honestly, I don’t know what the lies to everyone mean. Can you please share your insights?  I was talking to my mom and she felt that bit especially showed forethought and planning.

I know how important it was for me in the very early phase to make some sort of sense of this, to understand it. Treasur has covered a lot of this in her reply, and I want to add that, for me, in hindsight, it was a bit of a fruitless quest. For many reasons, but most importantly, you can't put yourself in someone else's head. Your H has his own agenda, and, I'm sorry to say this, it doesn't put you first, or perhaps not even in the picture at this point.  The other thing I have since learned is that a person in crisis seems to cycle a lot, change their minds a lot, forget saying or doing certain things - love you, hate you, blame you, hold onto to you. Want to fix things while hitting you with a hammer. On and on. Many 'decisions' seem to be made from the emotional and not the logical part of the brain - so storing to memory goes awry. Treasur nails it when she talks of a missed maturation - a person in this sort of crisis probably missed the part of life that taught us how to cope when things got tough. Fend for ourselves and be responsible for ourselves. Before crisis hit, they looked a lot like grown ups, but when the pressure got too much and they broke, they deploy the coping skills of the teen. They go back to what is familiar. If you reflect, you may see in your H a pattern of avoidance and running away from difficult things. And yes, teenagers are pretty self-centred and often completely unaware of the effect of their behaviour on others because they are so focused on their needs and how they look. Case example with your H  - he wants to meet your family and tell them HIS side of the story    Will it begin with 'I have been lying and breaking the trust of Flummoxed by having an affair for over a year now....'?Good luck with that! See how blinded he is by his own needs. On how HE is seen. No thought about how his self-justifications will hurt others. No idea how ugly his reflection is.

When I was standing in the dust cloud that blinded me after BD, I don't think I could really see how cruel, selfish, self-serving and thoughtless my H's actions were. Understandably, I still held the image of him that I had know for over two decades. I could not marry up the kind, thoughtful man I married with the cold distant stranger he seemed to become overnight. It is really traumatic and flips our idea of what is real on its head. There will be more twists and turns in your story yet Flummoxed. Just know, your quest to understand shows your empathy and compassion and that you have pretty healthy coping methods.

[MadLuv]

To me the lying just evolved for XH. I don’t think it starts with a master plan. I think he found himself depressed and by his own accounts started pretty simple with a subordinate telling him by work messages that she liked his shirt he had on. It then became a conversation non work related and got him out of his head for those moments.

I think once they step over that boundary it becomes easier and easier and they can say it’s just chatting, etc.  The lying happens when they cant excuse it anymore and so they then have to justify it. My XH does not talk easily or share easily, but I found messages to women he was not involved with that he shared small things that knocked me down. If they said, have you got your wife a Xmas present yet? And he answered, no. Doesn’t matter what I get she wont like it. Etc.

For me he did this because he knew he was doing things wrong and he was setting the stage so if it did come out he would be justified or just to convince himself. In the end he left on BD2 also and I lied to people to cover for him and protect him, but he lied to cover and protect himself.

I don’t think it’s easy for them to leave. The lies are to help them stay while they are figuring out what to do. I think my XH tried very hard not to leave. The problem is that he was living so many lies that there was absolutely no way for it to work without him coming clean, if you will. We feel the change. The pull back and that creates issues whether we know why or not .  The last conversation with my XH on his new life  he said, I’m really good at disguising where I am at. Not much is changing.  Very sad.

[Flummoxed]

Started packing important items and found a birthday card the AP wrote him for his birthday last year. The year he asked I not contact him. He spent with her; she called him the most supportive partner… they absolutely met through work. There was a keycard in the card to a private work station. I can’t move. I’ll have to come back another time to pack. I didn't think I could fall any deeper but here I am.

[MadLuv]

Hang in there. I understand your place right now. The unveiling of events cant just freeze you in the betrayal of someone you thought would never intentionally harm you. Just know that whatever is going on or has gone on that it is his escape and has nothing to do with you.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, MadLuv. With the loopy, generous wording… it just doesn’t feel like they’re both broken people, you know? It sounds like he’s back to who he used to be but can be that person with someone else. He had saved a letter from me in our early days of dating- Ii thought that meant something. And then I found this… I don’t know if he’s broken, MadLuv. Maybe the issue is me.

[Treasur]

Started packing important items and found a birthday card the AP wrote him for his birthday last year. The year he asked I not contact him. He spent with her; she called him the most supportive partner… they absolutely met through work. There was a keycard in the card to a private work station. I can’t move. I’ll have to come back another time to pack. I didn't think I could fall any deeper but here I am.

We all understand how those seemingly small things can be surprisingly big triggers to a lot of difficult thoughts and feelings.
And it’s perfectly ok to stop and do something else for a while. Any LBS and anyone who has endured a significant bereavement gets that.

However, the bit I’ll challenge is what you’re inferring from it bc we LBS need to do that as we pick ourselves up over and over after these kinds of triggers.
What does finding that card tell you factually? Perhaps that the affair started earlier than you knew, confirmed that it was through work, tells you what she wrote at that time and possibly what both were buying and selling (a pretty standard ow dumsel in distress and he plays perfect white knight). It’s like Facebook - it captures a moment, no more and no less.

As a side note, most ow are a type. Either staggeringly stupid or remarkably Me Me ish to the point of delusion. This ow was fine with sending a card like this to a man she knew was married. She’s seemingly fine about picking up a man who can discard his wife without respect or care and moving into her house.  That’s not very bright, is it? And not a decent kind of woman imho. As I get older, the more I think that karma really comes from being who you are and doing what you do. Neither of them are much of a prize - she gets an unfaithful dishonest man, he gets at best a foolish woman. And it’s all glued together with teenage-like nonsense of ‘twi lurve’ word salad.

After all, I’d bet your h has written plenty of adoring cards to you over the years….how meaningful was that when the $h!te hit the fan? 🙄

I have written similar things to my xh. I guess you have too.
The difference is that (I assume) we weren’t writing to someone else’s h. And that we have shown what love DOES when life gets difficult. So we can know that we meant what we wrote bc we practiced it in the worst of circumstances.
Blah blah words are easy.

My best advice is to burn or bin it as bad energy fwiw.

What does it say about you?
Nothing at all.
What does it say about your marriage? You trusted your h as spouses normally do and he proved unworthy of your trust. That’s it.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Treasur- trying my best to absorb your words until they cement down. I’d love to burn the card but im hesitant- I left it where I found it. He saved it with our important docs… I feel like he’d know if it was missing. He saved it with the key card for a reason.

Definitely feels like a damsel in distress/white knight scenario. Who knows where they are now, if things are still so rosy and golden. But he’s still trying to kick me out so she can move in. So who knows.

100%- he never wrote me letters but I wrote to him and only him. She felt bold enough to write that to him, but he also made her feel bold enough, right? And then he saved it where it could easily be found by me if I went digging around.

I can’t believe this is my reality right now.

[Flummoxed]

I’m trying to absorb that neither is a prize. I always imagined affair downs to be not attractive, just based on what I’ve read on this forum. I haven’t seen a picture of her- nor do I want to. But I’ve been to his holiday party the previous year and everyone was generally attractive. Such a superficial place to land, I know, but I guess that’s why I’m stuck in if this is an affair down. Yes, for personality and morals, I’m assuming. But otherwise? She likely makes more money than me, per the company. I guess she showered him with praise per the card. I’m really trying to see that this is in no way about me- even my IC firmly told me during our last session. But I’m so stuck on what if this isn’t MLC? What if I’ve just been rationalizing away him just being a terrible person because I didn’t want to let go?

Treasur, I’ve reached out to my legal representation for guidance on next steps. Of course, will not be moving anything today aside from essentials.

MadLuv, I suppose our stories are more similar than I thought. I’m scared of the same outcome but I guess we just let go and move on. He never apologized for the affair, just apologized for giving me two weeks to move out. I’m assuming your ex didn’t apologize either? Do any of them before they’re out of the crisis? Probably not, huh? They truly feel it’s justified.

Treasur and KayDee, thanks for your feedback and insights. It makes sense- he did tend to avoid things that were uncomfortable or that he did not enjoy. I guess he has to learn. I hope he does. But at this point… maybe I’m just super naive as a newbie, but I just don’t see him coming back. I just don’t. After lying to everyone, cheating for over a year (I’m now thinking it could have been closer to 1.5-2 years to count potential EA and PA), then try to force me from our shared home… there’s no coming back from that. I just don’t see it. When you dive so deep into a mistake that big, to create that much chaos, how can someone perform and touch and go? How can someone try to reconcile? And that’s all assuming this is MLC at the end of the day. I thought he was a good guy but maybe he was just unhappy with me and our relationship like he claims. Maybe the little blips of the old him were just lies to string me along. Maybe he truly is that good of an actor.

[xyzcf]

Everything hurts, every new bit of information breaks us apart. We are traumatized deeply by the rejection, abandonment and betrayal.

The card that you found, other things ...you are thinking he left it there on purpose for you to find. Once in a crisis, they are not thinking logically.
But our brains interpret things in a way that may or may not be real.

I thought he was a good guy but maybe he was just unhappy with me and our relationship like he claims.

Maybe he truly is that good of an actor.

When I was questioning like you are, as all of us do a friend said to me:
"xyzcf, what food do you absoultely despise?" I responded "liver and onions"...she said "so would you eat liver and onions everyday for 30 years if you despised it?"

I’m really trying to see that this is in no way about me- even my IC firmly told me during our last session. But I’m so stuck on what if this isn’t MLC?

Whether it is MLC or not doesn't matter, the reality is the same. Your marriage is gone, he is gone. Perhaps thinking that it is MLC gives you more hope that he could return someday? That he will get through the crisis and come home and it will be ok once more.

Along with all the other fears that we face, the fear that this is truly over is extremely difficult to accept.

None of this is our choice and we did nothing to cause this.

I think it's a real internal response that the idea of another woman causes a rage inside us..it does for me and I never considered myself a "jealous" person but this makes my blood boil.

When I found myself again, after many years of therapy and hard work, I understood that I was who I was, and that was a really good wife and partner...those years we had together were really good ones .......my memories do not lie.

Time will help to ease these intense feelings...this is loss, this is grief and someone recently wrote on HS about how if he had died, we would be offered much different support, and there would be an "end"...a real physical "end"......our family and friends don't comprehend, they do not know how much we are destroyed by their leaving, society thinks we just need to move on...find a "better" man.....

As you can tell from the people responding to you...we understand how you are feeling. It seems impossible but bit by little bit, you will get better and life will be different but also can be very beautiful.

If one day, he wants to come back, and the LBSer gets to choose because you get to decide if at that point you want him back...that will be a great deal of hard work as well.

I have never had an apology from him and I see him quite frequently. He's so unable to face me on the ending of our marriage, that 9 years after we separated, he sent me a text message informing me that he had filed for divorce....now we have always had contact, he's never vanished from my life...so he could have told me in person.....a text message?

He continues to have no ability to show empathy or compassion..that part of his is gone or buried or as he says, he's really good at compartmentalizing...and so I see this man who still isn't at all in touch with who he is..15 years later....and I feel sorry for him.

For as much as I feel pain, I also feel excitement and joy and I don't think those in crisis experience feelings. You see it in their lifeless eyes, in their body language...what a way to live.

It's hard to imagine at this moment, but you will be ok...different...but you will be ok.

[MadLuv]

Who was unfaithful here? He was and is. So, don’t lose sight of that. No matter the reason. I think you can look back at cards and events and think they now meant nothing, but just know that someone who is insecure with no firm identity uses whatever they have in their arsenal. What worked before they will use again. This is part also of love bombing which most MLCers are notorious for. My XH told me once I hope I can become someone you will be proud of again. I then found a message to one of his OW he said the same. I was gutted. Now, I realize it had nothing to do with me or her. I think he was talking to himself and his deep wounds from his mother.  I’m neither loopy or generous. I just have now seen it all and after more than a decade I understand more than ever that it is THEM. We all have things to address, but you dont hurt and deceive people to do it.

[Treasur]

Glad you have reached out for legal guidance, well done. 👏

Imho this is one of those life experiences that tends to challenge some of our old ways of thinking and some of our deepest beliefs and values. That’s not easy, but it can be pretty fruitful. And what we see as admirable and what we aspire to and what we decide is acceotable in how others behave towards us and what is not. As my gran used to say imho ‘pretty is as pretty does’….and being an ow (or an unfaithful spouse) is not pretty.

It takes all of us a goodly bit of time to really get that other peoples’ thoughts, feelings and actions have almost nothing to do with us bc we have usually been brought up to believe they do. And by marrying, we believe we have signed up to be a team where it should. But tbh it often isn’t as true as we might think….most of what we do, most of how we feel it is ok to behave, is bc it suits us or affirms values we have. And disordered folks, and broken folks, are even more self-focused than normal folks imho.

Let’s assume for a moment that your h came to feel that your marriage was no longer what he wanted….how would a good guy deal with that, do you think? And does what he has done look like that? My h didn’t take that path and he could have done….why? Bc he found it easier not to. Bc he told himself a story in which he was the hero, ow the answer and I did not matter much. Or I was the evil villain lol.

None of that changed the reality that my marriage blew up bc he blew it up. He loved and valued me…until he didn’t…and that was how he chose to deal with how he felt at the time. I am not a mind reader and he/ow did some seriously weird s$it so I couldn’t tell you even now if it was MLC or not….tbh I see MLC more as shorthand for a kind of all round ‘cheese slid off the cracker’ thing. 😜 Whether I call it MLC or not did not change one jot of the reality of what I was dealing with. And as I didn’t cause whatever it was, I couldn’t do anything about it practically speaking. I only know that I could not have done most of what he did (let alone all the things I didn’t know about, ha ha) bc I am not wired that way and he/our relationship mattered to me.

In case it helps, my then h and ow posted a whole spiel on social media about their twu lurve and upcoming wedding with their wedding planner. While he was still legally married to me and denying ow’s existence to both me and his own lawyer, of course. And in it, my/our marriage and two decades together were described as ‘a meaningless prelude’…..which of course was like a punch in the face as I’m sure the ‘anonymous’ sender intended it to be lol. Maybe I should change my tag name or get a t-shirt made 😜

It’s all BS blah blah, of course. Not about you, not intended for you, not telling your story. And life gets easier when you can unhook your sense of you and your life from somebody else’s story.

[KayDee]

.After lying to everyone, cheating for over a year (I’m now thinking it could have been closer to 1.5-2 years to count potential EA and PA), then try to force me from our shared home… there’s no coming back from that. I just don’t see it. When you dive so deep into a mistake that big, to create that much chaos, how can someone perform and touch and go? How can someone try to reconcile?

I think, in a way, this might be you speaking to your future self about this. About what you will be able to 'come back' from. What you will be able to swallow. We all have pretty horrendous lists like this. We all slowly shift our thinking as we move forward towards healing ourselves. As is oft said here, we are the tortoise in the proverbial tortoise and hare race. As a great poster here once wrote - we pay up front and in full. They, the crisis person, pays in installments. It perhaps seems cold comfort as we go through the fires of hell, but I believe most of us eventually burn through what we need to burn - we collapse, cry, yell in the shower, hide under the covers, but most of us here have felt all our feelings. I can't think of one person that chose to run away or avoid their feelings. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but you will be healed or well on the way to healing, before your H can even look up to survey the damage.

Please don't blame yourself. Ask yourself this - IF you were unhappy with your H, what would you do? Would you have a 12 month long affair, pretend to be a 'supportive partner' to someone else (I mean, WTF? how is that not a massive contradiction - he is neither support to you, or HER), all the while lie to him continually, by which you deny him the chance to make informed decisions about his own life, then kick him to the curb by blaming him for the marriage not working, when really you weren't even trying because you were having an affair and then kick him out of his home? YOU have not done these things. He has, and it says everything about him, and nothing about you. And as to the OW earning more money or having a nicer bottom or whatever - she is a person who thinks a 'supportive partner' is a man who gives her dribs and drabs and is a proven liar. If she settles for this, then, well - I feel sad for her really. She must not think she is worth more.

As to crisis or sociopath, try, if you can, to take your mind off this. Time will reveal more to you, for now, you truly need to focus on you. Muster the troops of friends and family. Be with those you trust. ((((hugs))))

[Flummoxed]

Thank you xyzcf, MadLuv, Treasur, and KayDee. Truly. I moved up my flight and am heading back home soon. Home to my family. Honestly, yeah, I really did want to hope he would make his mistakes, crash and burn, and get through the other side healed and try to reconcile. I’ve been having those daydreams for sure. I’ve been wishing he really did think of me when he isn’t in his potentially manic state and felt guilt and shame about it all. I was building hope when reading the recovered MLC threads.

You all are right- whatever the label, it doesn’t reduce the pain I’m experiencing or the destruction he’s caused. No, a decent human would not have done any of those things. I personally would not have done those things, and it’s hard for my mind to work like that. To understand.

I think something else has happened in June of this year. I don’t want to know but I feel like I’ll find out. I got a sympathetic text from a mutual friend but I didn’t know what it was about. It is likely they’ve taken the next step- why else would she agree to move across the country to live with him? It’s bizarre, because we were also still married in June. He texted me acting like we were divorced as of December 2023, which just simply isn’t true. He tried to follow some local sneaky separation rule- I don’t understand it. Just tell me so we can both live our lives. Truly, why hold me in place while you woo and firetruck someone else? I’m trying to remember whatever is going on there isn’t the equivalent of what we had- because he’s not the same person and simply has no empathy or feelings. So, truly, how supportive and caring can he actually be?

I really am trying to pick myself out of this mess. This mess has nothing to do with me- it’s their chaos. It hurts and I’m numb- will likely be back on the rollercoaster for some time. But I’m working on it like a true tortoise. I grabbed the card- my mom asked I bring it over as well. Likely will dispose of it along with its terrible energy.

[MadLuv]

I truly believe the only way to get through this is to feel all the pain. Enjoy the visit and comfort of family.  This is a slow healing process and as many before me said and it is so true that only time heals. Unfortunately. Ugh, but each day you are further.

You know what else really helped me was that his values, morals, character and integrity now did not match mine. Those are crucial in a relationship. When XH told me you will never be able to look at me the same. He was absolutely right, but it took time to see it.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, MadLuv. As much as it pains me to agree, just because I want to get over it and not be associated with this anymore, it will take time. But at least I didn’t go catatonic like I did during BD2, which is good. Some nausea and general spiraling, but at least I’m able to move and get things done while I wait for my flight.

You’re so right. Our morals, values, character, and integrity simply do not align. They used to, but of course, with this seemingly out of nowhere flip, I don’t want to be associated with this person. He’s disgusting. If this is who he wants to be, by all means, have at it. I’m through.

[Flummoxed]

My mom did some sleuthing, against my wishes, and thinks she found her. Confirmed they work together. She looks normal, not like an evil beast or clear AD. But they’re both damaged people, so maybe that’s enough to consider it an affair down.

He is not the man I married. I do not know who this is. I need to work on letting this stranger go.

[MadLuv]

My XH new OW/ wife is an affair down in every aspect, but just know that she could be a beauty queen and the fact alone she is with someone that was not available pretty much says it all. I also think that these OW/OM accept these men and women that are causing so much pain to people that were a major part of their life. The glaring RED flags are beyond!!  What normal person would want them?

[Flummoxed]

100%- thanks, MadLuv, for the added perspective! Truly, who would and what makes them think it won’t happen to them?

Reminding myself that he’s now a stranger, that I gotta just let go. Because I certainly don’t want him in my life as he is, so this isn’t actually a loss for me but a clearing of a rocky path.

[Flummoxed]

Ok, I didn’t give myself enough credit. Maybe it could be an AD from various angles. Who knows at the end of the day- they decided to do what they did and that means that two very broken people decided to sync up and hash it out. Doesn’t involve me- as many have quoted: not my circus, not my monkeys.

I know I can’t really trust his words, but at BD he did say he still thought I was beautiful and he was still attracted. But, taking him out of the equation, I feel beautiful and I feel attractive. I was kind of a depressed mess in baggy as firetruck sweats traveling all over the country for the past 24 hours, but I still got hit on and had a couple double takes. And I will hair flip my way to collect the self esteem boost, thank you very much.

Working on staying positive and getting used to spending time with people again. I was pretty isolated for the past three weeks by my own volition. But being around my family, the people that love me, really is helping jolt me back to feeling like a person.

Thanks for the push, team- I had recovered from previous breakups solo and thought that was the way to go with this one but you were all so right.

[MadLuv]

Healing comes in waves and sometimes you beed alone time and sometimes you need friends and family. I think what I really had to do was push my self out of my comfort zone. Accepting those invites I didn't want to go to.  I also think outside validation is nice in a haha way. I still get hit, but I definitely don’t need it. Sometimes I hate it. You know your worth and this can make you doubt it, but you will slowly keep finding yourself again!! Glad you’re on a bounce back. Those lows and then back to calm are what lets us know we will get there!!! It is everyone says a rollercoaster!!

[Flummoxed]

Thanks so much, MadLuv! Definitely feeling the rollercoaster aspect over here, I already have a little bit of a lower energy today. But I will get myself out there, accept the invites, start volunteering, just get myself out there so I’m doing something more than wallowing.

I also ageee with you regarding the external validation- I am not usually one who takes any stock in it and would ordinarily ignore it, but I think it helped put a little pep in my step yesterday after the chaos. But, as a whole, even though this certainly has been and (from what everyone is saying) could possibly continue to be a significant trauma, as I work to heal myself, I do  know that I love myself just as I am. I’ve been working on my positivity and self-love for the past year and a half and I think it’s definitely helped in some aspects.

Currently working with the mantra that the man I love(d) is no longer an active participant in this world, that two broken people are doing selfish things, and that none of this mess and destruction has anything to do with me. I have the freedom to live my life as I see fit. It’s not quite fixed in my brain just yet but I’m hoping with time it sticks.

[MadLuv]

You know I really don’t think they can run forever and if they can there is such a deep issue that you are better off to be removed. If they (MLCer)  are in there somewhere at some point living with the guilt of the hell they made for themselves, rather than one that just happened to them (LBS) , is a much more unbearably miserable existence.

Enough from me absorbing your page. Have a good visit with family and keep moving forward

[Flummoxed]

I agree with you 100%, MadLuv! It’s just a matter of time. Or they continue to live within the hell of their own creation. Although I don’t want to wish suffering on anyone, I find this rather fitting. I hope they all learn whatever lesson they need to learn and come to their senses.

Hahaha I appreciate your guidance, I truly do! And thank you so much- I hope you have a beautiful rest of your day.

I learned a bit more about my MLCer today without wanting to. Truly, I am not searching for this stuff but am being informed by others. Confirmed AD- she’s in it for the money and he’s in it for the attention he never received as a child. It just seems so dumb to me. Like mentioned by another individual on this forum (I’m so sorry I don’t remember who to give credit!), it truly is like watching a horror movie and screaming at the character that decides to investigate the suspicious noise after being told a serial killer is on the loose. What are you doing?! Turn around, man, turn around!! But, of course, they can’t hear you and the scene unfolds before your eyes. I really just want to turn off the TV or switch the channel entirely. I don’t want to see this melodrama unfold but it’s all just a matter of time, isn’t it?

[UrsaMajor]

The AD is nothing more than a)


and b)
A band-Aid on a festering rotten wound that goes to the heart and soul of the Mid-Lifer. It is an escape into the land of Dopamine, pink cotton candy clouds, furry litte puppy dogs and unicorns running around farting clouds of rainbow glitter.... Until it isn't and mean old Mr. Reality comes back to smack them in the face with a 2x4 because no human EVER is capable of making another human "happy" 24x7x365 for life.... Life doesn't work that way. As long as the Mid-Lifer is focused on getting all their reassurance and affirmation form external sources (like the AD Partner), they will ALWAYS end up disappointed in the end.

[Flummoxed]

In 100% complete agreement, UM! And thank you for the very vivid description; it really helped bring the point home. 😂 Happiness truly comes from within when we’re grateful for what we have and can appreciate our lives as they are. It’s truly sad how some people go to such lengths to avoid introspection.

[Flummoxed]

So a new update- it looks like my MLCer has re-written a lot of our history (of course),  painting himself as some white knight and me being some helpless damsel he spent a bunch of money on. Totally not true since I was very self-sufficient for the duration of our relationship, but I digress. Does anyone have any insight as to when the rewriting of the relationship is ever reversed? Is this only at the end of the whole process?

It seems like my H made a ton of terrible decisions that I simply was not aware of on top of the ones I was aware of. No surprise to any on this forum, I guess. He has started to discuss his childhood traumas with his IC though? For the time being, all blame for the demise of our relationship is still being pinned on me though so I know we’ve got a ways to go.

I did respond to a text from him today- I wished him well and stayed firm, yet cordial. But will go back to being dark- I have no interest in keeping a conversation going. All he did was like my response anyway- I think he agrees. Distance really does help with the whole process of letting go.

[Reinventing]

Distance really does help with the whole process of letting go.

Yes, I found that when I was so very hurt and blind-sided at the beginning that putting on my own oxygen mask first was great advice. For me (an example of one), that meant I focused on myself and my healing. For me that included diminishing contact to business only for awhile.

That allowed me, an example of one, room to breathe, to learn other coping strategies, to make decisions based on whether something helped me heal or not.

I am thankful that I had the time to "right my ship" so to speak. I also wanted to protect myself from OW. I knew OW from earlier in my life and didn't want her influencing my mental health.

Unhitching myself from his ups, downs, monster, search for the next dopamine rush, etc, etc, helped me stabilize.

If I had to go through this again, I would definitely do what I did again. For me, an example of one, it worked well.

[Treasur]

Does anyone have any insight as to when the rewriting of the relationship is ever reversed? Is this only at the end of the whole process?

You might want to read the recent post by Limitless sharing her latest update 10+ years later…..

Imho one of the ‘risks’ of focusing a lot on MLC as a cause is that it can lead some of us to assume that progress through a set of ‘stages’ - and therefore ‘recovery’ - is a given. There are quite a few anecdotal examples here suggesting that a) such progress might not happen at all and b) if it does, it can take years, decades even. You are in your 30s with a 5 year marriage that you said has been off- kilter for a couple of years, right? There may be some things you want to do with your life that are not contingent on his progress,  or not, that are not about his story but your own. If his narrative changes, you can always adapt accordingly after all.

None of us here can be magic mind readers, can we? So, many of us don’t know if that rewriting ever evolves in their heads. In my case, my xh is long gone, so I have no idea. It hurts, of course, and is rather confusing to hear someone claim adamantly that up is down when our own experience was so clearly the opposite. I think you can see clearly though - which is no mean feat, so well done 😝- that if blaming you/others is still in the mix, there’s not much useful that you can do with that.

Most of us LBS naturally go through our own process over time of working out for ourselves what we think was really up and really down regardless of what they say. The danger imho, particularly in these early days where you are, is buying too much of what they are selling, of blaming ourselves for things we had no control over or that are just not reasonable to expect of ourselves. Of seeing something as ‘the’ truth as opposed to ‘their’ current truth. Of assuming that this MLC thing necessarily has a beginning, middle and end and gambling todays wellbeing on an unknown tomorrow that we simply can’t foresee or control.

What does it mean for you if he never changes that rewritten story? And why does his story matter to you, do you think?

Again jmo but I think one of the reasons why reducing contact can be helpful to some of us in the first year or so is that it reduces the mental ‘noise’ from them that seeps into our heads. As Reinventing said, that gives us the chance to ‘right our own ship’ without being so frequently buffeted by someone else’s winds. I certainly found that my healing did not really start until I was off the metaphorical battlefield. And you can trust your own instincts about that - you seem to have pretty good instincts - once you feel your own ship is stable, you can always look at his perspective with a fresh eye.

And tbh, it’s worth considering the basic scientific principle of ‘considering the source’ of data, isn’t it? People have agendas, all of us do, and those agendas and interests and experiences shape how we see the world to some degree. Right now, your lens and your spouses lens are unlikely to be the same right now, are they?

Do the ‘ton of terrible decisions’ carry a financial or legal impact for you? Sorry, can’t recall the legal guidance you have decided to take about protecting yourself from his old and new decisions. Pretty common though, if it’s any consolation, that BD is followed by a series of smaller BDs like this although that can be unsettling….

My advice fwiw is to filter through the facts and his words/actions to pick out the few that are impactful in your life and let the rest go fly in the wind. It’s a pretty standard LBS life lesson to teach ourselves what belongs to us and on our side of the street, and what does not.

[UrsaMajor]

So a new update- it looks like my MLCer has re-written a lot of our history (of course),  painting himself as some white knight and me being some helpless damsel he spent a bunch of money on. Totally not true since I was very self-sufficient for the duration of our relationship, but I digress. Does anyone have any insight as to when the rewriting of the relationship is ever reversed? Is this only at the end of the whole process?

Historical revisionism can continue until the cows come home and sometimes it gets even more humorous MLCxW2 is good at that.... I guess the answer is really "It depends." They may NEVER stop rewriting history if they don't ever decide to do any real work on their own internal issues.  xFIL(RIP) went to his grave reinventing history from his various marriages and affairs.....

They will really only accept the "realistic"version of history if and when they finally do the work and start accepting responsibility for their actions and themselves.

[KayDee]

When we blame others, we are not taking responsibility for the decisions we make. Even if the decision was to let someone else make our decisions  It is really important for me, personally, to own all my decisions. Good or bad. If I make a bad decision, it is a learning point to try not to repeat it. That's part of growth.  So as long as a person is blaming others, they are stuck.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks so much, Reinventing, Treasur, UM, and KayDee! I truly appreciate all your feedback. I know distancing myself is the way to go- even though it’s tough, I understand it’s the best course of action for me to heal and grow. That being said, as this still is relatively new for me, I have a little flame of hope in me. Which sucks because this process could take years or never end, depending on the person- I know at some point I may truly let go. But I’m not there yet, and I hope that can be understood.

Treasur, I can confirm I’m taking steps to protect myself. I promise. I haven’t said much here just because I’m a bit paranoid. It currently is a waiting game for me but as soon as there have been finalizations, I will be willing to share more.

My mom met with H and could not even recognize him at first. He had gained quite a bit of weight and lost quite a bit of hair since she last saw him. When speaking, aside from his hatred and blame tied to me, he couldn’t keep his story straight. His timeline of events were all over the place and it was a just one hour-long conversation. He alluded to substance abuse at one point, that he has worked to get clean again. My old H didn’t use. He admitted to doing so many terrible things, but wouldn’t speak more to anything. There was considerable guilt and shame, but he still very much played the victim card, saying “Flummoxed knows why I did this,” basically blaming everything on our decreased intimacy.My mom said he was very confused, that there was some kind of innocence there that showed he did not understand the consequences of his actions. That this is very likely a childhood trauma thing. Falls in line with MLC, I’d say.

I worry for him because it sounds like he’s burning himself to the ground at an accelerated pace. He was raised in a very traditional household, so placing blame rightly on his parents  for abandonment and neglect sounds unlikely. And he refuses to accept blame himself. So I guess I’ll have to continue to be the scapegoat if and when he ever decides to truly accept actual reality. But I do worry about him, just because I don’t know if he’ll  survive to make that realization. I understand they have to hit their rock bottom. It just hurts to see the person you used to love with everything you had hurt themselves so much due to unresolved childhood issues. His blaming of me doesn’t help.

[Flummoxed]

My advice fwiw is to filter through the facts and his words/actions to pick out the few that are impactful in your life and let the rest go fly in the wind. It’s a pretty standard LBS life lesson to teach ourselves what belongs to us and on our side of the street, and what does not.

Channeling this energy today; thank you for the lesson and reframe, Treasur. I realized this morning I was starting to spin out about my MLCer, but factually, there is nothing I can do. It is not my crisis. He does not want me in his life. And as much as it pains me to see him this way and act in this way, i need to remember he’s not his old self. I am working to let go and let God. I can only focus on me.

So an updated personal mantra: the man I love(d) is no longer a participating member of this world, these are broken people doing selfish things, none of the damage and destruction has anything to do with me, and I trust God to guide H through the chaos of MLC because I can only control myself.

[Flummoxed]

A question for the team- I’ve been doing a little mulling over the issue and though I’ve started IC, I’m still in the initial stages and it will take a while to make true progress. I’ve also just started mirror work.

I am a bit concerned because, upon review, I have similar risk factors for an MLC like my husband. We have similar backgrounds and, although not the same, there are lots of shared themes. I did not repress as much growing up but I know I’ve repressed quite a bit of my childhood- I’ve been doing my best over the past year and a half to focus on reparenting myself and giving myself grace. However, the more internal work is only just beginning.  Has anyone come across any literature or guidance on how to prevent an MLC from occurring?

[UrsaMajor]

Read your opening sentences again....

A question for the team- I’ve been doing a little mulling over the issue and though I’ve started IC, I’m still in the initial stages and it will take a while to make true progress. I’ve also just started mirror work.

These are the steps needed - to begin to explore the issues, acknowledge the repression of self that has taken place, and learn how to deal with the emotions in a healthy manner.... .

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, UM! I think I’m just nervous- I’ve been having pretty vivid dreams and strong feelings mixed with less than ideal sleep. I know this is to be expected after a trauma/fallout such as this but I also have read from multiple accounts that this was also experienced prior to reaching a breaking point. I worry I’ve started the work too late, so wasn’t sure if there were any other steps I should be taking into consideration. I’ll keep at it!

[Treasur]

I would agree with UM. Please don’t be scared. What we call an MLC imho is a crisis reached BECAUSE someone does not do the kind of healing work you are doing now. Instead, they run from it and try to fix it with external things.

Again jmo but as LBS I think what happens to us - what is perhaps happening with you now - is a different kind of crisis, a different kind of breaking. You, and life, probably don’t feel the same as you used to? And that’s scary, isn’t it? Just as painful probably, just as hard, and just as important to heal. But all the things it sounds like you are doing are part of healing; it just takes time. And a little faith and good company!

[Flummoxed]

Thanks so much, Treasur! It completely does feel like a crisis on my end as well, albeit a somewhat different variety. But still feeling a bit of a loss of self, not finding much joy in the things I used to love, not knowing what the heck I’m supposed to be doing with my life now. So I’m just focusing on healing since that seems to be what I’m supposed to be doing but when I’m not in therapy or actively doing mirror work, I feel lost. (And, embarrassingly, I can understand the drive to engage in a revenge affair. Logically I know it would absolutely make things worse, but I can understand why some people act. I’m trying to process the impulse and plan to discuss it in therapy.)

It’s good to know it lessens with time and practice. I guess I’m just impatient. You’d think a year and a half of this would be enough but then you learn it can absolutely take much longer. Much, much longer. I’m working on remembering that time is on my side, that it is a gift for me to do my work and grow. But currently every day feels like it moves so slowly because it feels like I’ve lost that drive to GAL that I had before BD2. Just taking things one day at a time.

[Flummoxed]

Hello hello! So figured I’d share a little update here. Nothing to report from an MLCer perspective, but I’ve been working on healing myself, as I had previously shared that I have a lot of similar risk factors as my husband. I started to refocus my attention onto therapy and inner child work.

To start addressing my childhood trauma, I read “adult children of emotionally immature parents” and I found it to be really eye-opening. And honestly, a lot of the explanations and guidance in the book and its successor work in an MLC context as well. I’m not sure if the book has been previously recommended, but I’d give it a little look see if interested. The advice given aligns with the advice within the blog and this forum- LBSs need to detach. Thankfully (in a way) I have experience detaching from my dad because it was necessary for my survival. By reframing what is occurring now with my H, I see that the same will need to be the case. Although I hope it is a temporary measure, at the end of the day, it is a requirement to move forward with my life.

Just wanted to share that little tidbit! I’m back off to my little study zone to keep working on my childhood trauma, loving my inner child for all she is and all she’s been through, and making progress with my CPTSD. Sending everyone a hug and positive, healing energies this week!

[MadLuv]

We all have things either we recognize or not that from our past reflect in the way we handle things in our future. I also agree with others that we all go through a transition in life, but those that don't reflect go through a crisis. You are doing all the right things to move forward and grow. I don’t know about detaching l, but for me it was more a separation to clear my own mind and see things clearly. Once you do you  an’t ever go back to how you saw things before. I think many of us thought things were much better than they were. For me the trick is to not rewrite the history myself by focusing on all the damage done. It’s a careful balance and one that an IC definitely can help to keep you balanced on.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, MadLuv! I feel like I’m on an similar path- absolutely no rewriting of history here, but rather putting the good experiences in a box and keeping my feet firmly planted in the present and focusing on my own next steps. We may have looked at the relationship with rose-colored glasses, but I do not believe it was bad at all- hence the shock, of course. But what is simply is- I’m working with the IC to process my past traumas and work on creating new positive memories and opportunities moving forward. I don’t talk about MLC in therapy since it doesn’t seem like most therapists believe in MLC and/or they disregard the possibility due to his age. So I’m using the time to just work on me and it’s been a great asset.

But congrats on D33’s big news! How exciting!

[Flummoxed]

Did anyone else have an MLCer who acted all cool, calm, and rational when approaching divorce proceedings? I feel like I’ve only read about Monster and cycling in this forum, but mine is acting like it’s in the best interest of both parties and is trying to minimize the time and cost spent.

[Tailspin]

Did anyone else have an MLCer who acted all cool, calm, and rational when approaching divorce proceedings? I feel like I’ve only read about Monster and cycling in this forum, but mine is acting like it’s in the best interest of both parties and is trying to minimize the time and cost spent.

My wife always tries to act calm and cool with all divorce related stuff because she's trying to get to me agree to things that she wants.  I learned this well after my lawyer told me always say "I hear you and I want to discuss this with my lawyer first".  This upsets my wife and realize whenever there is calm it's her up to something.  Just be careful.  MLC makes people very self-centered. 

[Flummoxed]

Thanks, Tailspin! Will try to approach it carefully as well. He’s acting relatively kind and as though BD was a tough little hurdle but he wants what’s best for me. It just pisses me off- he totally nuked our lives. But yeah, I’ll take heed and approach with caution.

[xyzcf]

Did anyone else have an MLCer who acted all cool, calm, and rational when approaching divorce proceedings? I feel like I’ve only read about Monster and cycling in this forum, but mine is acting like it’s in the best interest of both parties and is trying to minimize the time and cost spent.

Yes...there was not any emotions shown, no arguing or discussion...he actually came up with a plan that was to my benefit concerning my house without going through our lawyers...having said that, the total cost of this destruction was more than $50,000.

He was convinced that this is what he wanted...although we had a legal separation for 9 years and then one day he sent me a text message saying he'd filed for a divorce...no reasoning...that became final in 30 days I think...can't remember, don't want to. During those 9 years, we had contact with each other so at any time he could have talked to me in person about what he planned to do..very bizarre.

He also was not at the separation hearing...I attended that alone...his lawyer represented him and when the judge asked where Mr. xyzcf was, his lawyer said he would be representing him...the judge further asked if he would be available by phone and his lawyer replied no, he was working.

How I felt then, was that he did not even care enough to show up for court..how little I mattered!

However, I have since realized that what is logical to me is not logical to the MLCer...I could come up with all kinds of theories why he didn't show, none of which would be the right one because I am not in his head.

Every other couple that day in "divorce court" were there together..I had never heard of such a thing...but just add it to the craziness of MLC.

[Flummoxed]

Goodness, I’m so sorry, xyzcf- I understand you don’t want to dive into it and I am absolutely thankful that you are sharing this with me. That is incredibly brutal and I am so very sorry.

You’re right- it’s not going to make sense and maybe it shouldn’t because our minds just aren’t going to function that way. Hopefully, anyway. But what the actual hell?

I keep forgetting they’re lost in their own reality and have no idea which way is actually up. But here, in the real world, we somehow have to manage. I’m currently just working on tying up the loose ends and letting go of my rope so he can float on out and live how he thinks he wants to live.

[Flummoxed]

Just very irritated. He keeps wishing me peace and happiness. I can’t deal with the mind games- it sounds like the only answer is to cut everything off. But is that it?

He says he’s open to chatting because BD 2 was “rough”; seems pretty clear he has no idea the full extent of his actions, or perhaps he simply does not care other than to make it seem like he’s the good guy. I don’t know if there is any value in having a conversation outside of legal specifics at this point when he’s lied consistently for the past two years. Would there be any upside to having this conversation? Thanks!

[Treasur]

Only you know the answer to that, my friend - depends if you feel there are things you want to say or questions you want to ask. Usually it changes nothing and is a bit futile, can be quite upsetting. Why? Well bc you already know that you’re not on the same page and that he’s lied…so there’s that. I suspect you could probably have the convo as a role play and be pretty accurate about what he would say lol.

But you must do what feels best for you. And either way, it likely won’t make a big difference one way or the other, so that’s a plus.

Not all MLCers monster or disappear. Some cling and some do the ‘no big deal, surely we can be friends’ thing. Some even seem to conflate their feelings with yours…I feel x do you must feel x too. Which can be infuriating and feel a bit like putting your head in a blender. Some still want to have some control over how you feel and what you do next. Why? Put simply, it’s easier to understand if you accept the simple premise of their self-centredness….they will approach it in whatever way makes them feel more comfortable or avoid being uncomfortable. Does that make sense? It can be an extraordinary level of weird entitlement to witness, we know, but there are lots of different kinds of Me Me. Trust your own gut - how much of his behaviour genuinely feels that it is about concern or empathy for you?

Which brings me back to YOU. Your post is about how he feels and what he seems to want. Pshaw! If someone is blowing up my life and dividing me against my will, imho I am no longer obliged to give two hoots about their feelings or wants. Imho that’s the reality of being removed from someone’s life, right? So you approach it all in a way that feels like how you actually feel and what works for you….if you want to maintain some kind of friendship, fine. If you are interested in his opinion about what is best for you, fine. If not, also fine. And if what works for you isn’t how he wants you to feel or behave? Well, welcome to your world, right? He can deal with his feelings about that without your involvement just as you have had to do.

So, you do you and let his dice fall where they may.
What’s best for you right now?

[KayDee]

I was in a very similar situation to you not so long ago. My H wanted to meet regularly. Seemed all like Mister in Control. These meetings were, ostensibly, to catch up and see how I was doing (add your own emoji here). But in reality, it was always about him - and in person he was usually very emotional. He gravitated towards me like a lost boy to his mother. That's how it felt. I knew from the very start that he could do nothing FOR me while he was in crisis. I knew I didn't trust him with anything, especially not my feelings.  So for me, in the end, I didn't see the point in meeting with him, because I just absorbed all his pain and then he would continue to do $h!tety things, which would set me back. I think I healing kicked in when I let go of that extremely thick emotional rope. If he ever approaches me again with respect (and I will know it if/when I see it), I would be open to meet him. But not now.

About the coldness - yes. Absolutely. My first thread was titled something like 'cold behaviours'.  It was one of the hardest and most cutting things for me in the early days. I was a heap on the floor and he was seemed so ordered. But that was the furthest from the truth that you could get, it was all a front. FWIW, my H told me he was coldly formal like this because otherwise he got confused (read into that whatever). This behaviour bothered me for such a long time I went through it with my IC. She suggests that he is like this to 'protect himself' - as in he cuts off his emotions, disassociates from them (incl. his crap behaviour, which equals shame) and puts up a big old ice wall. Easier to focus on logistics and cling to Mister In Control persona, than actually acknowledge you are completely out of control, which is part and parcel of a crisis. I believe this is roughly true for my H. But, as the refrain goes here - Example of One.

[xyzcf]

Would there be any upside to having this conversation?

I may be wrong but perhaps you think by having a conversation, that will have some impact, some effect on him. Most likely it will not. It might give you some insight into where he is at or it might upset you further when you don't get the answers that you wish to hear.

I don't think they are playing mind games with us. They have no clue it seems of how much this hurt us.....they compartmentalize and as KayDee's therapist said:

 

She suggests that he is like this to 'protect himself' - as in he cuts off his emotions, disassociates from them (incl. his crap behaviour, which equals shame) and puts up a big old ice wall. Easier to focus on logistics and cling to Mister In Control persona, than actually acknowledge you are completely out of control, which is part and parcel of a crisis.

I did choose to have contact with him, albeit, very superficial. It's very telling to me in our family pictures, how cold and distant he is..the tin man without a heart.

It helps to share what our IC's say about them...remembering that they have never met the MLCer so cannot make any kind of diagnosis....my IC told me when I questioned why he continues to see me, bring me gifts and then disappears...she said " he comes to see you with a pacifier in his mouth which he removes, plugs into you and when he gets his "fix", he puts it back into his mouth again and goes on his way...until the next time he needs it charged".

Appearances have always mattered to him much more than to me, and so it might be that he can show the world what a "good guy" he is and how we are "friends"...his friends and colleagues will believe what he tells them and everyone lives happily ever after........

I would always take the opportunity to have a conversation with him, because it gives me insight and understanding of who he is, which helps me to distance myself as this is the complete opposite of who he was. My example of one.

He keeps wishing me peace and happiness

this....goes to show how absolutely out of touch with reality he is...shaking my head because it's so absurd....I often said that if this was not happening to me, I would be fascinated by the psychology of MLC.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Treasur, KayDee, and xyzcf for all of your insights and feedback! I truly appreciate it all!

Honestly, logically, I know I will not see or hear a change in him if I meet with him. It’s only been a bit over a month since BD 2- so maybe a few minutes in MLC world? I guess my little bit of hope was acting up because he sounded like himself (over text), I hadn’t talked to him directly in weeks, and a part of me wants to connect. But I know that if my physical reaction to those handful of texts is any indication, I am not detached enough from him to not be extremely hurt over a conversation. It is probably best to stick to succinct, as necessary, written communication for now.

And it’s a relief to know that likely nothing I do or do not do will have any impact on what’s going on with him. You’d think I would have retained this lesson- I clearly did not. After years of walking on eggshells, this is actually a really freeing thought.

That makes complete sense regarding the cold behaviors! We had a very similar experience- although BD 2 felt like it came from the Arctic depths, H was very confused and emotional when he met my mom to chat two weeks later. The front is just to get stuff done and “protect themselves”, I guess. From what, I still don’t know. I really wish we didn’t have to be on the receiving end of all this chaos. I guess they think we’re safe and won’t go anywhere?

I need to remember that they just don’t understand how much  pain they are inflicting. I keep seeing his actions as purposeful and I need to work on not taking it personally but rather standing aside and protecting myself as he self-destructs. But how do you get to that point? It took me two decades to get there with my father (another story)- I really don’t want to have it take another two decades!

My mom had told him she was praying for him and I had wished him health and wellness a few weeks ago. I don’t know if he truly means it or if he’s mimicking our behavior, but my gut tells me there is a part of him that cares and/or feels obliged to support. Not enough to actually action on anything, but I think a part of him currently sees me as a generally nice person who he is willing to verbally say he would like to help. I suppose I should be thankful for the little things, but not get swayed by thinking it means anything more. Words are only words.

Is that what the LBS is at the end of the day? A charging station?  Until we distance ourselves and recharge to the point of being a lighthouse? I would love to be able to check in and keep the lines of communication there at least a smidge but I know I’m just not strong enough yet. And I suppose that comes with time and an incredible amount of inner strength. I worry that if/when the day comes that he can treat me with the respect I deserve, that I won’t be receptive to it. I know RCR speaks about forgiveness and I guess that comes down to us learning to let go after a good chunk of time. Also remembering that they aren’t themselves but their polar opposites- for some reason that fact doesn’t want to stick. If nothing else, this truly is a test of patience and adaptability, isn’t it?

What would be best for me right now? Continuing with IC and strengthening my own resolve. Turning the focus back on me and returning to the things that have always brought me joy. Once the divorce is through, I plan to move into my own place and start putting down roots. I bought a couple of art pieces from local artists; one weirdly aligns with this MLC/LBS experience. I’m trying to turn the future into something to look forward to. I do have tickets to a concert tonight but am not sure if I’m up to going. I bought them for the two of us and don’t feel inclined to sit next to an empty seat all night.

I worry he’s so deep in the fog that our divorce won’t even register to him. But, much like Treasur framed, why am I focusing on him when he is out of my control? What do I need? I need to find my bearings and move forward. I had been in limbo since 2022 (when his suspect moods and behaviors arose) until present day. I need to chart my own path, continue with my healing, and stop looking at the future in fear.

Thank you all so much for your feedback and guidance. I know I’m rambling at this point but I am so thankful for this forum and so thankful for all of you!

[xyzcf]

I would love to be able to check in and keep the lines of communication there at least a smidge but I know I’m just not strong enough yet. And I suppose that comes with time and an incredible amount of inner strength.

I did not want to live "in fear" of contact with him...I wanted to be strong enough to be in his presence without it shaking my world.

I was helped by my therapist to understand that it was totally up to me whether I saw him or not (he is a clinger so that would not be true of a vanisher) AND that I could change my mind from one day to the next regarding if I wished to have contact with him.

This was very freeing because it means I don't have to set anything in stone...I don't have to come up with ultimatums or strict boundaries or rules...I just needed to become desensitized to my fear that he could hurt me again.

I have no need to "punish" him by withdrawing my presence or exclude him from family functions (in my case only my daughter and husband, he is not welcomed by my siblings and I don't want him there) his life is a punishment itself as far as I can see.

I know RCR speaks about forgiveness and I guess that comes down to us learning to let go after a good chunk of time. Also remembering that they aren’t themselves but their polar opposites- for some reason that fact doesn’t want to stick. If nothing else, this truly is a test of patience and adaptability, isn’t it?

Forgiveness was key for me to let go of anger, bitterness or any ill feelings towards him....once again, a very freeing experience and lets me get on with my life without wasting precious emotional energy on "what a bad person he is"...rather how very sad that such a good person was inflicted by a crisis.

This took many years to attain but I have not regretted the road I took. I accepted that there was no way to erase him or the love I have for him from my life, but I also could not let that destroy who I was and who I am meant to be.

[Flummoxed]

Very sage advice, xyzcf- thank you so much for sharing.

I would love to desensitize myself- I don't want to live in fear or be impacted so much by his presence either. It is great to know we can change our minds and adjust as we see fit- we don't have to set a standard and maintain that. Much like it was clarified for me when I first joined the forum- I don't have to decide to stand right away nor do I have to maintain my position. I still have a hard time remembering that he's going through a terrible trial- I'm having a hard time breaking out of my perspective and pain to see his; however, I am trying. I think once that realization hits, it will be easier to not take things personally and show compassion.

I put a little bit of that flexibility into practice today. I had to communicate a bit more with H today as I had received some interest from a third party to purchase our shared property. I tried to act with kindness but detachment after reading a Hearts Blessing article on detachment and love. Yesterday, I had been very short with my answers and rather formal, kind of like his cold tone of voice, because I was hurt and wanted to enforce boundaries. Today, I tried to come from a place of general love and understanding- not for him as my H but more so him as a person. I told him that it was not my place to ask what he intends to do with the property once he becomes the sole owner, but I conveyed the third party's interest so that he was aware and left it at that. He responded back a bit curtly, but based off of the info you have all shared earlier on this thread, I'm doing my best to interpret it as him trying to manage something internally and not to take it personally.

I love that forgiveness has helped you move forward and live your best life on your terms while still having that love for his true self in your heart and not letting everything else weigh you down. I truly hope to one day get there myself; hopefully all of these little steps will get me to reach that space. I did go to the concert I had bought us tickets for- got there late after a bunch of overthinking but I went and used the extra seat space as extra dancing room. It was truly a night to remember, but it hit me all over again when I left the venue. Time heals all wounds, right? Do the retriggering little heartbreaks stop at a point or are those just constant unless a person stops standing and truly moves on?

To commemorate the night, I'm adding the lyrics to "Good Riddance" by Green Day. Hits a little too close to home but I've also found it therapeutic depending on one's mindset at the time. Wishing him well and working on letting go of the rope.

Firetruck

Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road
Time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go
So make the best of this test, and don't ask why
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

So take the photographs and still frames in your mind
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
Tattoos of memories, and dead skin on trial
For what it's worth, it was worth all the while

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

It's something unpredictable
But in the end, it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

[Flummoxed]

Super low today- came across new info from another friend. Confirmed that there have been multiple OWs, but seems like the current one is the one H is open to risking it all for. Met less than a year ago, but he’s been open about his affair on social media (after blocking me and my friends, of course). No one reached out to me, but I guess they didn’t want to get involved.

Looks like he may have stolen my guitar and accessories too. I was always hesitant to go into the guest room when he was home- I didn’t notice it was missing until earlier this month. A friend noted he had seen it in a social media post of H’s, playing along with OW. Another long sigh.

It breaks my heart, but I’m doing my best not to take it personally.  That they played music together, which is something we always wanted to do (I’m just a beginner). Of course, he won’t post the bad stuff on social media- no one ever does.

I guess I’m just sinking. Mentally, I understand he has to experience this and break free from it on his own. He’s dealing with his childhood traumas as a broken person with another broken person. Emotionally though… the hits just keep on coming. I don’t know how to not take this personally. I’m trying but it’s not working.

My friend went through his own mild transition it seems. It lasted two years and never went past an EA. But he admits to having been a total @$$hole, surrounding himself with fake friends, and distancing himself from the people who cared. It wasn’t until he himself decided to make a change that things came around and though he’s still a work in progress, it was hopeful to see him own up to the error of his ways and work on strengthening his relationship. I don’t know if I will be so fortunate, but after all the pain H has put me through and I guess the public nature of his infidelity, maybe I won’t want him back if he did return.

Just feeling lost in life. I’m reconnecting with old friends, spending time with my loved ones, working on myself, opening myself up to new hobbies and classes. But I feel like I’m one foot in the present and one foot in the quicksand of grief. I have a mask for the outside and when I come home, I just fall apart.  Much like an MLCer, I guess. He killed what we had for multiple women (women he has admitted to barely even remembering) and now is putting the final nail in the coffin for this broken person who will run him to the ground for money. It’s a tough reality to accept.

[Reinventing]

Flummoxed,

Yes, it is hard to unhitch your emotions, especially hearing things about him and OW. Since you can't do anything about it, perhaps ask people to not tell you anything right now. You can always change that in the future.

You are raw and may need to put on your oxygen mask first, so to speak, for a bit. Focus on yourself and get stabilized. Notice what helps you stay on an even keel and feel better and do more of that. Do less of things that send you in a downward spiral (for right now that may be news about him).

For me--my experience--when everything was so raw it helped me to move my focus away from him and on to me. That meant I watched what helped me feel better. I only communicated briefly about business and then began exercising, attending a divorce recovery group, found an IC, took a cooking class, etc. I asked people not to tell me anything for a period of time to give myself a breather from the rollercoaster of emotions.

When I was stronger, my emotions weren't so tied to what I was hearing or by contact from him.

[KayDee]

Sorry you are feeling so low Flummoxed.

Reinventing gives great advice. Create a haven around yourself now, it's does nothing to help your healing to hear what your H is doing. And it's all a second or third hand information filtered through social media. And something to consider - he did not post those images on social media to hurt you, if that was the aim, he'd have made sure your were looped in. No - he did that for his own ego and vanity and to show his in-group how cool he is. How 'great' his life is now. I expect anyone with an ounce of decency will see what a turd he is being. This is where you are right to not take it personality, although boy, it hurts. I know.

I, like you I think, analyze things a lot. For me, gaining some understanding helped me not take my H's behaviour so personally. But at a certain point, I had to start saying to myself 'and so what?' Not in a cold or hard way, but because the knowledge does not change the actions. And the actions are damaging. It didn't happen overnight for me, and I still try to get some understanding of the 'motivations' but less so now. Funnily, it has helped me in other relationships and situations, learning not to take things so personally (silver lining number 28 )

If you can give yourself some respite from your H's chaotic behaviour for a while, you will probably find that you can look at the situation with a bit more clarity. So hard to do that when MLC dust keeps getting kicked in your eyes.

[forthetrees]

You are right- it is hard to not take it personally. Your description of one foot in the present and one in the quick sand of grief is apt. What you are experiencing is normal for the LBS so take some strength from knowing that since what you are feeling now is normal, you will one day reach the healing stage of not having it feel like you´re being emotionally flayed. The saying, "Sometimes the loss of the illusion is greater than the loss itself." by Susan Ban Breathnach helped me a lot. Now that you know that he was unfaithful several times, perhaps use this quote as a mantra and it will help you reorient your brain as to who he is vs. who you thought he was.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you, Reinventing, KayDee, and forthetrees!  I’ve reread your words over and over- they’ve picked me up from the ground and I sincerely appreciate them.

Apologies in advance for another long, rambling post.

It’s nice, in a way, to know this is normal and to be expected. I’m doing my best to stay busy- I have at least one fun thing to do a week and I’m looking to add more to my calendar. Old friends have been so supportive- without asking more about the situation, they’ve been so welcoming and open to spending time. I truly appreciate them all.

I will definitely implement a don’t tell policy moving forward. You all are right- if I can limit the intel, I can limit the effect on my life. I can’t handle it at this time and truly I do not want to know. There is no benefit. I am honestly looking forward to the divorce finalizing at this point- I don’t want to think about him at all. I feel like the divorce is what is keeping my mind focused, in addition to the little BDs along the way. Once I get that distance, it should be easier to move forward for myself, right?

And something to consider - he did not post those images on social media to hurt you, if that was the aim, he'd have made sure your were looped in. No - he did that for his own ego and vanity and to show his in-group how cool he is. How 'great' his life is now. I expect anyone with an ounce of decency will see what a turd he is being. This is where you are right to not take it personality, although boy, it hurts. I know.

Thank you for this, KayDee- I think you may be right. I think a part of him doesn’t want to hurt me (he does think, at least currently, that I’m a nice person but that’s about it) but, of course, it won’t stop him from doing all he’s doing. Either that or he just didn’t want to get caught since he hadn’t made his mind up yet? He did decide to make his actions super public though. And no one said anything to me- either they didn’t want to get involved or maybe they buy into his story. I know I cannot control others- I can only control myself. It’s just painful to learn that things were even more awful than I thought. Not so fun to learn that I’m the last to know.

"Sometimes the loss of the illusion is greater than the loss itself."

I love this quote- it truly fits the circumstance. I am definitely grieving the loss of the illusion- he truly is a complete stranger now. It makes the divorce process a bit easier to go through in a way. The person I loved is gone and this stranger, who feels guilt and shame without knowing why, is all that’s left.

At this time, I do not know if I have it in me to stand. I am not ready to move on to another relationship anytime soon but the level of destruction and the public nature of it all… he confessed to my in-laws and they didn’t have the decency to let me know either. And apparently MLCers go through this process and most don’t remember anything from it? But we LBSs are left with the scars, the memories, and the uphill battle of learning how to trust again (if we ever get to that point). I sit here and wonder- is this worth it?

I currently do not see a world where we could rebuild and reintegrate our families. Even if he became the most wonderful version of himself, I would need to learn to forgive and trust him, the in-laws, and all of our mutuals. I can’t see a way in which this could be redeemed. I don’t think I have the level of patience required to stand through all the phases of this insanity. I was reading articles from Hearts Blessing’s page and it just sounds like I’ve got to become Buddha to make it through this if I’m interested in standing and I very clearly don’t have that in me.

So I look forward to the divorce finalizing. I look forward to getting my own place and fostering my friendships. I look forward to diving in fully with new and old hobbies and making so many brilliant new memories with these lovely people who do see my value. I look forward to further fostering my inner self and loving the universe and myself enough to the point where none of this will matter.

[amazinglove]

I really feel for you in your post and I can relate to so much of it.

This part had me puzzled, "And apparently MLCers go through this process and most don’t remember anything from it"

Why do we think they have no memory of what they've done? I don't think I believe that they lose their memories of all the terrible things they are doing once they 'come out of it' - that would be bizarre. why do we think that?

Sorry if I missed something!

[Biscuit]

Amazing,

It's been documented by a few MLCers that when they've come out of the really dark place that they were in during their crisis that big chunks of what they said and did are no longer  accessible to them as memories. Not sure if you've read ShockSis's account of her own MLC but she recounts only being able to recall a small percentage of her memories in her replay period. Like they have been wiped from her memory. I think Hearts Blessings may have written about it too, that if a person manages to navigate the MLC completely that much of what they went through would be discarded and not remembered in full.
There have been theories bandied around on HS and other forums that the MLC might almost be experienced by another facet or child of the psyche and that once it has run it's course that the issues of that child have been resolved and no longer form part of memories.

Just from personal experience, my W can no longer remember the awful things she said to me in early replay. Like there's a total memory block. And she's nowhere near out of her crisis yet.

[Treasur]

Anecdotally, lots of stories here about MLCers saying years later that they have no recall of things they said and did……and anecdotally lots of evidence that these folks act very reactively in the moment and disassociate and compartmentalise….basic human coping strategies that square our own psychological circles and that can affect how memories are filed and retrieved. As someone who had PTSD, I accept that some of my wiring hiccups during that time did affect my memory and sense of chronology.

Caveat though….i did not do some of the things my former h did….my damage was self-inflicted not inflicted on others. And the loss of my memories distressed me a great deal for a while bc working out what was real felt like the only way to dig myself out of PTSD. Whereas these folks have already shown us that one of the ways they deal with difficult things is to lie. A lot. About a lot. To lots of different people. And work very hard to avoid holding themselves accountable by denying tough facts or blaming others.  ‘I don’t remember’ can be pretty close to avoidance imho as a life tactic. And a kind of gaslighting ‘hall pass’ maybe. Perhaps it just depends on someone’s agenda at the time and is a bit of a mix of all these things, idk .

It’s a tough thing for most LBS, particularly if they see what is happening as an MLC type situation, to work out for themselves their own judgement about the line of ‘mad vs bad’, and how responsible we should see people as being for their own actions if they would be deemed as having ‘mens rea’ legally and practically. Or indeed for the LBS to accept the possibility that someone they loved and trusted would intentionally and repeatedly hurt them to meet their own needs and wants. More an issue of character than crises perhaps.

One can get a bit lost in these long philosophical grasses though.
Imho what helps most is to focus on peoples’ current behaviour and trust your own judgement about what feels healthy and acceptable to you. If things change, one can adapt one’s lens accordingly.

In the short-term, for most LBS, it is usually more useful - if still deeply painful - to start with the assumption that something quacking like a duck is most probably a duck and to respond accordingly. I have no idea why my former h behaved as if he hated me and wanted me dead and thought me and my family did not deserve better after two decades….but his memory of that (or not) now would not change one jot of the reality of what happened to me then. Making some kind of peace and perspective with that is imho part of the process for most LBS….we don’t always reach the same conclusions and our situations differ as do the nature of any future connections we have with our ex/spouse, but most of us strive to make some kind of peace and acceptance with it in our own way. One sort of has to really in order to move forward from it and feel comfortably sane lol….i have no idea how MLC spouses do that but I would imagine they have their own version of that. And perhaps not remembering is part of how they do it? Idk

[xyzcf]

It is not surprising that once their crisis is over, they do not remember some of what  happened. Since we do not really understand the pathology which caused the crisis, it's hard to pinpoint.

The brain is a complicated system and responds to many influences.

Thinking about this, I did a quick search and found the following things listed that can cause memory issues.

"Short-term memory loss can be caused by many medical conditions, including:
Brain damage: Brain injuries, such as concussions, strokes, and brain bleeds can damage the brain and cause memory loss.
Infections: Infections in or around the brain can cause memory loss.
Vitamin deficiencies: A deficiency of vitamin B12 can cause memory loss, confusion, and disorientation.
Mental health conditions: Depression and anxiety can cause memory loss.
Medications: Some medications, such as statins, anxiety medications, and antiseizure drugs, can cause memory loss.
Thyroid problems: Hypothyroidism can cause memory loss, trouble concentrating, and "brain fog".
Transient ischemic attack (TIA): A TIA is a brief episode when parts of the brain don't receive enough blood, and in rare cases, it can cause memory loss.
Electroconvulsive therapy: A common side effect of electroconvulsive therapy is short-term memory alteration.
Other causes of short-term memory loss include: Alcohol and drug abuse, Heavy cigarette smoking, Sleep deprivation, Severe stress, and Not eating enough healthy foods. "

I have often pondered what an MLCer's brian would look like on an MRI or post mortum...would there be signs of ischemia? tumors? areas of the brain that are dead?

"Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can impact the brain in a number of ways, including the hippocampus, the amygdala, the prefrontal cortex, and the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC):
Hippocampus
The hippocampus is the part of the brain that handles memories and emotions. When someone experiences a traumatic event, the hippocampus works to make sense of and remember the event. However, the brain's stress response to a traumatic event can cause the hippocampus to be damaged or inhibited, which can lead to memory impairment. This can make it difficult to form new long-term memories and can cause short-term memory loss. "

Many LBSers have reported that their partners have told them they were in a "fog" or they do not remember things that happened during their crisis. We have witnessed the physical signs, the dark "shark" eyes for example and the inability to show empathy and compassion in a person who previously was loving and caring.

Something has happened to cause the crisis. The science exists to explain issues with memory and brain function.

Another condition that popped into my head as I am contemplating this is amnesia

"Generalized amnesia
A rare type of dissociative amnesia where people forget their identity and life history. It's more common in people who have experienced extreme stress or conflict, such as combat veterans or victims of sexual assault. "

Could some of these things affect the MLCer's brain and their memory of events that occurred? I think it is possible and that considering some of the pre crisis issues our partners have experienced, not really surprising.

[Flummoxed]

Thanks for sharing all these findings- honestly, it’s a very interesting read. I agree, xyzcf- if it wasn’t being experienced head on, MLC is a very intriguing subject. I really wish there was actual scientific research behind this condition- truly, what a world of difference it would make for us all to better understand and treat!

Journaling a bit:
As expected, my counteroffer to his initial value offered was shut down immediately and he lowballed a settlement offer like crazy. Made a bunch of false claims and acted as though the IC he is meeting is due to our relationship. He went on to say he was never happy in our marriage- that comment hurt me the most (along with blaming me for the reason he’s in therapy).

Instead of spiraling, as I would have done, I’m trying to take a step back and see the bigger picture. I guess it’s normal for MLCers (like anyone) to fight for what they want legally if you don’t just accept their offer- they want what they want and you’re not giving in, right?  I guess I’m surprised a bit because my counter was honestly very reasonable. He would have had an easy divorce and would have been able to freely live his life without me. Seems silly to lowball to the extreme- but I guess MLCers are so convinced of their reality and truly are emotionally driven. Because, logically, if he was supposedly unhappy for our entire marriage, wouldn’t it have been his priority to end it ASAP and move on? Why would he have stayed married this entire time and had affairs?

So I’m seeing it as more of a monstering issue. I haven’t dealt with Monster much personally yet- and he’s in the cool, calm, rational side of monster so  it’s a bit less obvious to me. But maybe I hurt his ego when I mentioned divorce (rather than just an agreement for the house). Granted, he still got back to me within 24 hours, but it’s possible he was down for the count initially.

But I will never know. The fog is still thick and, unfortunately, this divorce will take longer than I had originally expected. I’d love to be done but I can’t accept the crumbs being offered.

I’ve been reading more Hearts Blessing articles and am trying to follow her guidance. Stay true with faith, align with my Self, and stay calm. I came to terms this morning that he’s convinced all our (then) local mutuals of his story of us. I’m reminding myself that there is nothing I can do about that. The fact that he believes he’s been so incredibly unhappy with me for our entire marriage- I can’t do anything about that. But I can focus on my next steps to detach further. I can work on being steady, non-reactive, and hand the reigns to my legal representative to limit further contact. I can focus on my part of this journey, which is finding me again. Let him continue to spiral in his pit of despair and fake happiness for however long he chooses to stay there. He’s trying to suck me down with him- I won’t let him. But, firetruck, does it hurt.

[Tailspin]

I’ve been reading more Hearts Blessing articles and trying follow her guidance. Stay true with faith, align with my Self, and stay calm. I came to terms this morning that he’s convinced all our (then) local mutuals of his story of us. I’m reminding myself that there is nothing I can do about that. The fact that he believes he’s been so incredibly unhappy with me for our entire marriage- I can’t do anything about that. But I can focus on my next steps to detach further. I can work on being steady, non-reactive, and hand the reigns to my legal representative to limit further contact. I can focus on my part of this journey, which is finding me again. Let him continue to spiral in his pit of despair and fake happiness for however long he chooses to stay there. He’s trying to suck me down with him- I won’t let him. But, firetruck, does it hurt.

This is the mentality that has helped me.  Hearts Blessing drove home that you can only control yourself.  That seems to be the hardest lesson we learn on this journey.  I had a really hard time adjusting to that.  I failed so many times before I got better.
You sound like you're getting stronger in all this.  Keep it up!!! 

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much, Tailspin!! I’ve been rereading her pieces trying to commit them to memory. Truly, letting go does seem like the biggest piece in all this. Hand off to a higher power, to the universe, to God, and just live each day- thank you for sharing it took you a while as well to get to where you find yourself at today. It gives hope that someday I too will be able to accept. Though I can’t imagine being so zen about all this with this divorce chaos going on, I guess it’s just a matter of practice and no longer communicating directly that will make all the difference. No idea how you’ve kept this up while in the same house!

A little quote I’m finding helpful today (translated):
“The strength of a thousand is not as powerful as the strength of one with faith.”  -Bhishma, Mahabharata

[Flummoxed]

Journaling:
Just documenting a couple of quotes that helped me out today for quick reference:

There is always a tightrope to walk when dealing with midlife spouse–because one needs to take care of Self first, before worrying about any real or perceived losses that might occur. You cannot control anyone, but yourself, your actions, and your reactions, so you learn to detach from their heartache, distance from their drama, and let them fall on their face. The only help you can give them is to pray for them, and let God have them to work with.

Remember that hurting people really do tend to hurt people. When someone doesn’t feel good about themselves, they’re not going to do or say anything good toward someone else. The old saying, “You hurt the ones you love the most,” is a most apt analogy in this situation. Remember that the midlife spouse’s problems are not about you. You didn’t break them, therefore, it’s not your responsibility to fix them. Do your best to look beyond the bad behavior to see that hurting person, as you learn to separate the behavior from that person. Bad behavior, in any context, is only a symptom of extremely painful emotional issues within that hurting person.
- Hearts Blessing

Human beings are like legos- just because you are in pieces, does that mean you are broken? NO. You just sometimes have to disassemble and put all the parts back right again- and that takes time, perseverance, and a ton of patience.
- Terry Crews

[Flummoxed]

Hello All,

I have a quick question for the team: is it a generally shared experience for the MLCer to show increased confusion as they go deeper into the experience? I ask because there seem to have been more lucid moments within months of BD1, but since then, the confusion and anger have considerably increased. I’ve seen many references to things getting worse with time, that things get worse before they get better (eventually), but I wasn’t sure if this facet was included in that somewhat vague and ominous phrasing.

I understand there’s nothing I can do about it- I’m more so wrapping my head around the new “normal”. While also working on addressing my armoring to heal from CPTSD. It really is kind of hilarious if you think about it.

[xyzcf]

In our story, the first year after BD, there were many many times, I called "flipping" where he'd say something and then a few days later deny he had said that...we were living in different countries and there were 5 times I was supposed to rejoin him...after a year, he shut down completely and we became legally separated for I realized I needed to protect myself financially.

I think what you are asking is pretty common. Their crisis is a long road and you will not know when they are through until you look back and see significant changes. The length of time this can take is really difficult to think about.

Keep focusing on your growth and well being.....find the moments when you can set aside what has happened and allow your brain and heart to heal.

[Biscuit]

I noticed a great deal of ‘flipping’ as XY puts it in the first 6 months. Then a year of steadfast surety that what she was doing was the right path. This transitioned into the last year of flipping and confusion again.

[OffRoad]

Sometimes I think they have to build up grievances against us to make it easier to separate. So if "OMG" there was a pleasant interaction, then they have to act out and behave badly.  I rather attribute the flips to that. While my XH was living in the house, he'd turn sideways to avoid touching me in the halls. Then if he saw me wearing something he'd consider sexy, he'd say "Arrrr..." and then catch himself and disappear. If he behaved badly for no actual reason (yelling at me when I had done nothing), he'd leave the house. He knew at some level he was wrong.

I would always say I watched him like a bug in a terrarium. It was fascinating if I weren't in the middle of it because his behavior was so off. The man who would stand on the edge of cliffs without a care was suddenly afraid of heights. In all the time I had known him he had never been afraid of heights.

I also used to refer to my Teflon armor. Whatever he did, I did my best to let it slide off. It's hard to think we can't do something to help, but we just can't. Mine wasn't happy for 5 years, 10 years, ever. It changed from day to day. But I have pictures. He wasn't always unhappy. He doesn't get to take my memories from me. As the years have gone on and my kids have gotten older, I tell them stories of happy times I  had with their father and they are gobsmacked. Because after all, he and I were never happy. And I show them pictures and they know what is true. I don't say bad things about him, just celebrate the time we did have when I share these experiences.

The man you remember is not what is in existence right now. Do your best to stay as detached as you can. It's a fascinating watch if you can keep yourself from personalizing it (really hard to do).

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much, xyzcf, Biscuit, and OffRoad for sharing your guidance and experiences! Your feedback is truly appreciated and kind of entertaining as well!

It’s really nice to know that this is normal progression (as nice as any of this could possibly be, of course). I promise- right after this post I’m going to dive into a little coloring while watching a comedy. I took next week off for personal time and am looking forward to spending it with my extended family. Lots of love and a bit of chaos, but I know they’re trusted, full of love, and truly want the best for me. Im also working on fully detaching- my (shorter) mantra has been “it’s not about me”. My IC recommended “this is my time”, but I’m still struggling with that one as you can probably tell.

I had unfortunately completed the exercise Tailspin had written about in his thread- reviewing old text messages and seeing the progression of MLC. You’re right, xyzcf, it really is only clear when looking at it all in hindsight. I’d say there were about 9 months of flipping, even saying he was trying to learn as much as he could about himself to get better around the 8 month mark. I’m pretty sure he was still with OW1 at that point. He seemed to be in a deeper depression at the 10 month mark (potential withdrawal) and then fell off the deep end at the 11 month mark (start of OW2). He still denied wanting to separate, claimed he just needed to figure himself out, until the 19 month mark which triggered BD2. Now he says we’ve been separated since the 9 month mark (which is just factually incorrect and wouldn’t I have known?) and has flipped from saying we’ve been divorced since last year to we need to get divorced. Too true, OffRoad; It truly is fascinating when you’re not in the midst of the chaos. This guy also seemed to take notice when I wore something new or put on makeup. Then nothing but retreat- (shrug).

I guess he’s in that steadfast place of feeling this is the right thing for him. I’m doing my best to stay calm, friendly, yet detached. I’m planning to move out in the near term and we’ve been coordinating the process as smoothly as we can. I’m looking forward to wrapping up the move to then hopefully not have to be so involved moving forward. It should definitely help with the healing and making way more progress with GAL. Biscuit, I just got the chance to read a little of your thread- it sounds like you're a champion at GAL! Truly- it’s inspiring me to get myself out and about. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Flummoxed]

Journaling:

Spiraled down yesterday- as predicted, most people don’t believe me, and the ones who do are tired of my hurt and want me to feel better already. The only group of people that actually believes me is the one in this forum. I’m truly thankful, I swear, but it also makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist sitting in my bunker waiting for the world to end and that just isn’t me. All of this is truly crazy-making and I swear we are all of sound mind. I feel like he’s convinced everyone that I’m off my rocker and by inadvertently discussing this with people who have accepted the “we’ve been separated for a year now” lie…. Well, I’ve played right into that hand.

I need to GAL but I’m currently stuck in the suburbs with no access to a car. I’m not sure if I can buy or lease one with a divorce impending.

I guess im just feeling stuck. Getting out of the house (finally) next in a couple of days, so that should bring some improvement, but the lack of independence and almost total dejection of the truth from the outside world is really taking its toll.

[xyzcf]

Yes, people 1) don't want to enter into this deep hurt that we are feeling 2) many people divorce (50 % of marriages) but often those divorces occur in marriages that were bad for a long time, or both people want out....our marriages imploded very very quickly and along with that come all the changes in our lives that we have to deal with when we are in a place of "distress"...our hearts and our brains find this impossible to understand......people, who have never experienced this, do not get it. I felt like I was being "judged" and maybe that wasn't the case but I felt like people thought I was being pathetic and I had never felt that way in my life before.

Getting out especially around other people really helps...book clubs, bowling leagues, exercise classes ( my favourite is yoga) meet up groups...a plethora of choices but not having transportation really limits your choices.

Buying a car is a huge expense, not just for the car, but registration, insurance, repairs. Perhaps leasing a second hand car might fit into your budget.

Or,  give your self permission to take an Uber/Lyft...you are worth the expense and that would be less than buying/leasing something.

I was fortunate that I did not have the lack of money that most LBSers encounter.

I was also advised legally not to get a job as that would impact how much maintenance I would get. I had worked for 27 years and I loved working as a nurse, but had quit my job 7 times to follow his career path all over the world. In retrospect, it would have been better for me if I had a job to go to every day.

We have good days and bad...we think we're finally "better" and something makes us go down the tubes again.

Keep writing here because we do understand. I hope you can obtain some resolution to your transportation issues because being isolated from others is really hard.

[LC]

I wish I lived nearby. I’d pick you up and we’d go for a drive. But alas, I have no coolant and no money; the irony
Hugs from one LBS to another. You are definitely not alone.
Hang in there

[Flummoxed]

Thanks so much, xyzcf and LC!

xyzcf, your response is exactly it- it’s all just so sudden and the hurt and pain is too deep for others to feel comfortable around it for very long. Though, of course, with the MLC lies everyone who listens to them believes the fallout of our relationship aligns with Point #2. I absolutely feel judged and humiliated, although I know our relationship truly wasn’t bad and that my H was happy when he claims he was miserable. It sucka because an old boyfriend had behaved in a similar fashion (cheated, gaslighted, the whole shebang), but he was just a young adult with little/no self esteem and absolutely no respect for women. I know and feel the difference between the two situations. The ex boyfriend truly never was the person I thought he was. H really was and flipped on a dime. With exbf, everyone saw through his BS and some people even warned me. With this, our mutuals are so split because H was never a liar before this but neither am I.

Thank you so much for your advice! I’m going to look into potentially leasing a used car or renting a small place in the city so transportation is less of an issue. I’ll speak more with my legal representation, if there’s anything I should consider before making any decisions. But an increase in independence is definitely needed.

Truly- a huge chunk of this is dealing with the gaslighting and spew while in bereavement. It’s such a bizarre culmination of experiences and I’ll try to keep remembering it is normal to have to take a step back once in a while. I’ll be sure to continue writing- I sincerely appreciate this forum. It is truly such a bittersweet thing to know this is such a shared experience.

LC, you are hilarious. 😂 It is truly the thought that counts and sending hugs back! I sincerely hope your coolant issue is resolved soon so that you can get back to adventuring yourself.

A question for you all: in your experience, was it worth fighting the lies that were spewed out during the legal process if they do not impact things financially? Of course, I’ll discuss this further with my representation, but if an MLCer is so convinced of their version of reality despite very clear proof of the contrary, I hesitate to even address them to avoid unnecessary monster. It feels like I can either be right, outline all the actual facts, and be at risk of him pulling a tantrum or let his lies rest (unless he stresses them), not fight for what I know is the reality, and try to not rock the boat and hope for a better outcome.

At least from his counter to my counter, I got a great view of the lies he’s been telling himself and others. And though there is a sprinkle of truth, not nearly as terrible as he claims, it kind of makes me feel better to see that he really did have to make a bunch of stuff up to justify his actions. I know who I am as a person. I know what we had when he was himself. From my research of posts in this forum, this could go on for quite some time as, in a way, he’s only just entering the deeper part of the tunnel. I think he tried really damn hard to fight it for a year and a half but the fog is getting thicker now and I just have to let him be to do his thing. And, in that vein, stop peeking over and really live for me. I actually remember loving being single the last time (not the dating side of things but just the freedom side- i definitely lost myself in this relationship after making so many sacrifices. I look forward to finding myself again!

Goodness, I always end up writing a full on novel- Ihank you for reading if you’ve gotten this far! 😂

[Treasur]

I can’t even recall now the list of legal reasons my xh provided for his divorce. I remember they were weird opposites of reality as I knew it, and my then lawyer advised me not to pay too much heed to them or react from reading them bc they made no difference legally. Needless to say, his affair was not mentioned lol…..or money he’d stolen…or the threats to my life. If I remember, broadly his reasons came under the heading of ‘wasn’t a good enough cheerleader and support for my wonderfulness’  Which was ironic bc, with hindsight, I think my biggest marital flaw was being rather too generous and supportive with my time, respect, optimism and cash ha ha. But it’s a long time ago so I really don’t recall the details now.

I think your instinct on this sounds smart and sane and sensible. Do what will serve you best; not bc you are trying to appease him in the hope of better behaviour from him, but just bc you care about where you most fruitfully invest your time and energy.

Plus imho you can’t argue rationally with f**kwiitery and can waste a lot of energy trying. Nor can you control what he says/thinks or what others choose to believe.

People who really know you will know what’s in your behavioural wheelhouse and what’s not, so they won’t believe him. Ditto those who have a good radar for f**kwittery and DARVO and folks who avoid holding themselves accountable for their own actions bc that’s a hard-earned life skill that some of us acquire by going through this kind of awful experience or similar. I read an article this morning about a minor celebrity here who is apparently trying to find redemption by telling ‘his real story’….it was like DARVO central so I stopped reading! Those that do believe him, put simply, either don’t know you or they are not on your team bc they have a different agenda.

So, follow your lawyer’s advice and do what is best for you….

[OffRoad]

The problem with people is that they are mostly wrapped up in their own life. Sure, everyone gives lip service to their "tribe" and "being there for you" but in truth, most don't want to be bothered in my experience. They are in pain? They need all the attention. You are in pain? Get over it. This is how we weed out the people we should not have in our lives.

That being said, there is also a subset of people who just don't know how to act or  react. And a subset who think they need to be Switzerfriends.

Case in point for me, former in-laws. I tried to be polite and keep in touch and send cards and got nothing in return. My D says "They LIKE you" and she brings home lemons or pluots or whatever when she comes back from visiting there (they have fruit trees). Hmm. They like me so much they have. never, not once, called to see how I was doing, if I needed help, hi, howz it goin', nothing. That's a lotta like there....not. So if we ever end up at the same place, they put on the "Hugs" shows for other people, as if we'd seen each other outside of a random encounter in 9 years. Or even talked to each other in 6 years. For my kids sake, I roll my eyes and suck it up because I really think they have zero idea how to react to the situation.

As to Switzerfriends, I let most of those go. If they think what he did was OK with them, they don't have my moral code. Not really a good match for a friend these days. But hey, I JUDGE people. If Joe Fred down the street is a child molester, I JUDGE that I don't want my kids hanging with him. SUE ME. I judge everything and sometimes my judgment is "Eh, who cares?".  This is freedom and everyone gets to choose what they want in their life. Do I WANT to hang with people who are stupid enough to believe lies that are blatantly obvious? Nope. I mean, my HX lied like a rug. I always say, he lied to me, he lied about me, he gaslighted me, he stole from me, cheated on me, verbally abused me and abandoned me. I didn't find evidence of the cheating until later, though he was sure we had been done for x months, x years, x decades, forever depending on the day. So it wasn't really cheating, right?   It would, however, have been great if HE'D TOLD ME. There I was schlepping along thinking he was just having a hard time at work, when it turned out he was the one causing his own problems.

And now, is it worth fighting the lies? Only it it matters to what you get in the separation/divorce settlement. People who really know you know where the lies are coming from. People who don't can believe anything they want. With any luck,you have lived your life so that no one will believe the lies about you. No one believed the lies about me, but they did Switzer.

List your facts as you know them, with dates and amounts if you know them. (he walked out on x date, on that date we have x amount in joint account abc. My half would be blah blah. House was worth x amount. Retirement worth x amount. ETC) Let your solicitor tell you what you best move is (use those numbers or current number or future numbers). Those are YOUR facts and it doesn't matter what he says. He can say the sky is chartreuse and you just say, my fact sheet says it's blue.  Saying he's lying helps nothing in this case because it's obvious the sky is blue, if you see where I'm going. Whatever your facts are, and that can include some opinions if you have no way to document a date, you stick with those unless someone can prove something different. Boil it all down to a spreadsheet.

I can say definitively that this worked for me, and may not work for everyone. Your mileage may vary.

[OffRoad]

folks who avoid holding themselves accountable for their own actions

This. ^^^^  Avoid these people. A lot.

[Tailspin]

A question for you all: in your experience, was it worth fighting the lies that were spewed out during the legal process if they do not impact things financially? Of course, I’ll discuss this further with my representation, but if an MLCer is so convinced of their version of reality despite very clear proof of the contrary, I hesitate to even address them to avoid unnecessary monster. It feels like I can either be right, outline all the actual facts, and be at risk of him pulling a tantrum or let his lies rest (unless he stresses them), not fight for what I know is the reality, and try to not rock the boat and hope for a better outcome.

I can tell you in my state it doesn't even matter (No fault divorce state).  I learned from someone that fighting their lies is useless because in their heads they are always right.  They are so self-focused that their brains take minor things and change them into huge issues to justify their awful behavior.  It's the strangest thing.  My wife in the 1st and only MC session she went to, told the therapist about a night I was cranky because I was tired.  It was from a year ago.  The therapist followed up with "Why was it so defining?".  Wife's answer was "It really bothered me because I was tired too".  That's it.  To her that was something to forever be mad about.
I stopped trying to figure out her logic.  MLC puts their brain in a locked-out mode that we don't have a key for. 

[FaithWalker]

I need to GAL but I’m currently stuck in the suburbs with no access to a car. I’m not sure if I can buy or lease one with a divorce impending.

I guess im just feeling stuck. Getting out of the house (finally) next in a couple of days, so that should bring some improvement, but the lack of independence and almost total dejection of the truth from the outside world is really taking its toll.

Flummoxed, not sure where you are located but perhaps there is an LBSer that lives close by that would be interested in some sort of adventure or GAL activity.  We used to have a ton of LBSers all over the globe, but not sure how many post any more.

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much, Treasur, OffRoad, Tailspin, and FaithWalker for all of your shares!! I was out of town for a bit (!!) and got a nice little break from the isolation madness.

I will do my best to take a step back and not take his words personally. I’m working to embrace the fact that most people just have their opinions and they’ll stick to them no matter what- it is not in my control to change that and I should protect my energy to tend to myself and my loved ones. I am working on letting go of the need to convince others I’m right because it truly does not matter at the end of the day.

Agreed- Switzerlands can also be dropped as well as those who refuse to take accountability for their actions. They bring no benefit outside of added numbers.

I’d love to meet up with other LBSs and GAL! I noticed there used to be little meetups- it would be great if that was still a thing though I’ve also noticed engagement has dropped over the years. Perhaps most people have shifted to the FB group, but I’m avoiding social media currently so that just isn’t an option right now.

Journaling (it’s gonna be a long one):

I spent a few days immersed in nature and it was incredibly therapeutic. Maybe it was the jump from being isolated in suburbia to being free to roam in a national park- it was startling but also so good for the soul. The mountains and rivers and trees have been here for so much longer than we have and have withstood so much more- it gives one hope that we can make it through this period of time as well.

On this trip, I spent my downtime reading “Complex PTSD” by Pete Walker in the hopes of further undergoing my healing journey. Although my intention going in was purely focused on myself, there were several passages that made me think of MLC and my H. It flashed a huge light on my past and present behaviors; I’m really looking forward to practicing the guidances shared and reading more by Walker to expand my toolkit.

I found Walker’s book to be quite enlightening and I’d recommend giving it a read for those interested. As a recap, both H and I have had similar upbringings in the sense that we were raised by emotionally immature parents and experienced considerable childhood trauma from our very early years onward. I was concerned, due to our similar backgrounds, that I may also be at risk for an MLC down the line, so I wanted to get a head start on my healing journey to prevent as much as possible and live my life in as authentic a way as possible.

Through “Complex PTSD”, Walker speaks to “emotional flashbacks” experienced by the individual working with CPTSD. These are fundamentally triggered periods of time in which a person flashes back in time to when they were experiencing the initial trauma in childhood. They no longer have access to their left brain processing- they are dependent on their right brain processing (all emotions) during this time. They forget who they can trust and feel as though they are on their own. They fall back to old fear responses, or base instinct coping mechanisms, to self-soothe, which often times increase in intensity leading to addiction. They project their anger for their parents at a potentially innocent bystander. They justify their actions and dissociate to protect themselves. Doesn’t this all sound a bit familiar?

Walker further explained his theory of the layers of dissociation: the fear response (running behaviors), inner critic (the horrendous depression within), fear and shame (the individual truly facing what they have done), followed by the abandonment depression (rock bottom, liminality).

An emotional flashback is simply the inner child expressing their fear and pain- all of this emotion has been repressed for so long and it just needs a release. The best way to release is through grief- releasing the anger held within for their parents (monstering) and crying to release the pent up sadness. Whenever I read a recovered MLCer thread, I come across the torrential downpour of tears at or around awakening. Tears bring clarity.

Now, why am I sharing this book report? Because I feel like it was really, truly eye opening (at least for me). I think, in a similar vein as Hearts Blessing, I experienced a sampling of a transition/crisis prior to my H. I figure I’ll be a bit vulnerable here in case it helps somehow. To be honest, I thought it may have been related to alcohol consumption, but looking back, I highly doubt this was the work of a couple of beers. (I have since quit drinking as of BD.)

We were two years into the pandemic and we had relocated across the country. H was people-pleasing to the max; I didn’t know that was his fear response at the time. I just felt like his last priority and that I was alone surrounded by superficial friends. The culture was different, I was not fitting in, and the only person who got me was constantly prioritizing other people and their issues. This brought on an emotional flashback for me- not crisis level, but it made me feel like a kid again when my mom would do the same thing. I felt I didn’t matter, that he didn’t really care, that I was alone and hopelessly misunderstood.

Then we came across an old acquaintance and something just clicked in me. I had one conversation with the guy alone and I truly acted like I was possessed by something or someone else. I felt like I was truly understood for the first time in a long time. I’ve had social anxiety since I was a kid but I was somehow flirting like a champion, no hesitation. I thought this person totally gets me- I bet we have so much in common. Like an absolute psycho. We went home and reality set in- the distance made it easier for me to process. I, thankfully, had already been inadvertently practicing some of the treatment guidances outlined by Walker in his book that I was able to tie in what little left brain processing ability I had to highlight to myself that I knew nothing about this person. That I was fundamentally creating a fantasy and superimposing it on this total stranger. I knew something was wrong- I could feel I wasn’t myself. I knew I loved H and was honestly scared of the pull. I initially thought it was pheromones or something. I researched how to kill the feeling and all I could find was that it will take mindfulness and time. It was a few months later when I started to feel suicidal that I even noticed I was in the midst of a depressive episode and was able to get myself out using old tried and true methods. The heart pattering did take time to die out but it lessened over time on its own. I never acted on anything; the distance and having some left brain control definitely helped (thank goodness). But I can’t help but wonder if my emotional flashback helped serve as a trigger for H’s crisis.

As kind of firetrucked up as my life has been, one trauma after another, I feel as though I have slowly learned to treat myself with care and kindness. I am still a work in progress and treating CPTSD is a lifelong endeavor. H has forced his way forward in life by repressing a lot, which is why I fear his emotional flashback has become a true crisis. However, I feel as though my little out of body experience has led to me feeling a bit more compassion toward H and I am trying to look at things from a Birds Eye view. It is  terrifying to feel like you’ve lost control and you’re behaving in ways you never would. He truly is the only one who can get himself out and I truly hope he develops the strength someday to break free, tear down the critic, and show himself kindness as he heals from the depression. In the meantime, I will continue my work of grieving my own lost childhood and tearing down my own inner critic. If I can potentially avoid a transition or crisis myself, I would be unbelievably thankful.

[Biscuit]

Flummoxed,

A very thought provoking post, thank you. I will check out Pete Walker's book on your recommendation, especially as you draw parallels to Heart's Blessing's writings (I avoided her writing at the beginning of my LBS journey due to the more spiritual aspect of her website, which was a mistake on my part, as there's loads of good material on there, as well as in her book). 

You mention meeting up with other LBS's in your post. If you can find someone nearby I'd highly recommend it. It's just my personal experience, but when I was new to the forum another poster and I exchanged a few PMs and realised we were fairly close to each other, both geographically and on our healing timelines. We arranged to meet at large train station in London, some weeks after first chatting on the phone. I was as nervous as hell, setting out to meet her, I didn't know how, she, or I would react to actually meeting each other in person - I suppose a little like the nervousness of travelling to a job interview or maybe a first date would be the best way to describe it - although it wasn't either of those feelings!
When we finally met at a packed, rush hour station we both held each other tight and sobbed our hearts out. Looking back, it was a pivotal part of my journey. The forum is fantastic, but meeting someone in RL who really, really knew the pain I was in and who wanted to support me, and me her, was pretty amazing. We chatted for hours over a crappy train station coffee and then I walked her to her train and waved goodbye.
We continue to stay in touch, although our paths have taken us in different directions. She stood for a long time, but after healing and growing loads she met a new man, who really loves and cares for her. I continued my stand. We regularly check in on each other, and send each other photos of our adventures, her with her new love and me with my kids or at family get togethers. I think she's one of the bravest people I've met for being able to trust a new man and move forward in that direction. She'd say the same about me for continuing my stand and being willing to start to trust my W again.
Anyway, sample of one as usual - but I found it very beneficial and a quite beautiful and touching experience!

B x

[Flummoxed]

Thank you so much for the share, Biscuit! Wow- your RL friendship with the other LBS is honestly so touching. To meet someone in person to be open and honest, feel the feels, and discuss this totally firetrucked situation would be such a game changer. I’ll take a chance and ask around for sure. Thank you so much for sharing this amazing experience with me!

And I’m glad you’ll be checking out Walker’s book! I felt like it aligned with what I’ve read on Hearts Blessing’s page, this forum, and my personal experience. I had the same issue originally with Hearts Blessing’s articles and book, but was also so thankful to return to them all. I’m personally not a member of the Christian or Catholic faith (I’m sorry if my statement offends; I’m honestly ignorant when it comes to the difference at this time.), but do believe in a higher power. Regardless of one’s personal beliefs, I also feel that the meat and potatoes of her content hold merit and provide support. And, sometimes, one needs to read similar if not the same content in another way for it to sink in, which is what I feel Walker does.

I subscribe to Hearts Blessing’s theory of parallel journeys. Although I am not the one who demolished our relationship and his MLC is not about me, I know there are areas in my life I can work on. I can heal from my past traumas, build myself up to become a stronger version of myself, and live a life truly aligned to myself instead of consistently taking one for the team. If H is able to return, he will see that things will not be the same as they were. If H is not, I will be stronger than ever before and living life for me. It does not make this process any easier, but it gives me a bit more purpose and reminds me that I do have control of at least one thing and that’s me.

[Flummoxed]

Journaling:

I’ve had difficulty crying for as long as I can remember, until I got together with H. I guess my body finally relaxed enough to let the tears flow. Until BD2- now the tears won’t come out for more than 5 seconds at a time. I know I need to grieve to heal both the current trauma and the past but I haven’t figured out how yet.

Woke up from a nap to an emotional flashback, triggered by the H abandonment. Felt the running behavior of wanting to find someone else. I know that’s not the answer and I need to feel out the depression and grieve. It all comes back to pent up grief.

I started watching the movie “Wild”-  inspiration to face the unknown, I guess. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but there’s a scene where Cheryl and her ex mail their divorce papers together. He pulls her in for a hug as she tears up and he thanks her for their years together. I had to pause the movie- I spontaneously broke down sobbing. Is that how divorces can be when one person isn’t off in Lalaland? It was heartbreaking but there were these two people on the screen who still held love for each other and treated each other with respect and kindness… I know it’s a movie and divorces tend to bring out the worst in people, but (as you all know) none of this is normal and I guess i finally allowed myself another five seconds to grieve the loss of a man who brought me so much love, safety, and understanding. I know we need to be whole individuals and not need to depend on others; it’s just that I had to be tough and fight my entire life and had to act strong. He was the first person I could truly just be myself with. And I know he felt the same way.

Now I’m taking the time to be more vulnerable with others. Life is unpredictable and I don’t want to find myself here again. But I started the day off strong and now I sit with my little chunk of grief. In a way, I’m thankful- it means I’m that much closer to processing and that much closer to healing.

[UrsaMajor]

I too have met up with a couple of LBS's in real life, one who is still active when he was passing through Frankfurt to run in the Berlin Marathon (guess who THAT might have been    ) and one who is no longer active on HS when she was here around Christmas time and we hit the Frankfurt Christmas Market together.

Both times it was like hanging out with an old friend that you had never met before.... the communal bond of "Oh yeah, that $#!t happened to me too" made it quite easy and relaxing.

If there are LBS's in your area, it is quite possible to arrange a meet up. There used to be a sticky post on the first page of where people were from (what part of the world down to the town if it was a bigger one so the LBS couldn't be specifically identified) and from there, people would PN each other to arrange metet-ups. A few years ago IIRC (BC - Before Corona) there was a European meet-up in Tuscany area of Italy that I heard was a real hoot....