[Love being on higher grounds]

WOW and double WOW!

SL,

you just gave me some much needed hope!

My H has said those exact words too...with adding, that is why I just cant take that chance!

thoughts??

hugs,
L

[Shantilly Lace]

Oh yeah that added bit.  I just can't take that chance.
Said that too.

And then when you want to take a chance because you have changed and they have changed and you look back groaning at what you said wishing you had just kept your mouth SHUT.

So there is that too, embarrasment, pride fear of rejection because if YOU have done the right thing you will have a life and they  will sit there going "where will I fit in?"

And then you take a leap and do it anyway.  Because you know there is still a chance that they love you and you did all the right things for them and yourself.  But it takes ages to do that.  It took me months to gather up the courage and ask for reconcilliation AND he was going out with someone.

There is hope but you can't hang on.

Tell me if there is a noose around someone's neck choking them do you hold onto the rope or pick up the knife and cut it?

[Buggy31]

SL
I agree the constant contact has its own issues.  I really enjoy NC...it helps me move forward...It also makes what has happened psychially and emotionally feel like a more realistic physcial manifestation...in other words..this may sound harsh...but it feels like they are gone...cuz they are...it feels like they are dead...and in many ways they are psychilly dead....and like LG said a while past in one of her threads...what would you do if you lost your spouse to death..because that is what we have to do....accept we don't get all the outward sympathy and cheese platters and flowers..we get the quiet looks of sympathy....and whispers....and such....

I like the rope analogy..my therapist said if someone is drowning in an emotional ocean one of the worst things you can do is grab on...just like in real drowning...the best thing is to get control of  yourself...tread water carefully...sustain energy...maybe..just maybe your MLCer will see this and look to you and try it themselves....maybe they will save themselves...watching the LBS save themself.

[BraveNewWorld]

SL,
     I've been reading this thread again. What do you think caused your depression? Maybe that's a naive question, but did you have a trigger? Why were you so angry at your husband do you think? Do you think you can explain some of that, or is that how depression works?

My wife told me that there were times when she wanted to stick a fork in my head! She told the OM that she sometimes hoped that I'd die in a road accident.

Those, I think are the statements that confuse me the most because I don't know what a person would have to do to me before I'd feel that way about them ... and so I think ... God, I must have been hideous to live with ... but I wonder how!?

I know that there were some things that she wasn't happy about, but I listened and did what I could to fix them. Anyway ... it feels like a waste of energy reviewing it. I can recognize where I would be more careful in a future relationship if I ever dare go there.

I think there are definite elements of a depression in my wife. She is edgy and negative. I think she has had strains of a depression for a long time, and given her history ... to be honest it is understandable.

You seem to have had similar feelings. Did you reflect on that when you got better?

Hope you're doing well.

holdingon

[Shantilly Lace]

I've been reading this thread again. What do you think caused your depression? Maybe that's a naive question, but did you have a trigger? Why were you so angry at your husband do you think? Do you think you can explain some of that, or is that how depression works?

I have lived with depression for many years.  A lovely inheritance unfortunately.  BUT I slipped control with D13 when she was born, and Post partum set in.  I fought it, hid my thoughts I was terrified that I would lose my H and my daughter and that I would be put away.  So by the time D10 came along I was absolutely ruined and really fell apart.  I was mad at him in part because I was dying inside and he couldn't see it (UHH Hello I was hiding it BRILLIANTLY) and also in part because I saw it as him renegging on a promise he had made many years before.  I was living in a town I hated doing a job I loathed (small town not many jobs) no family and had never really been able to make friends.  No internet LOL He had promised we could move after 5 years and when the time came he wouldn't so I was simmering in resentmet as well

My wife told me that there were times when she wanted to stick a fork in my head! She told the OM that she sometimes hoped that I'd die in a road accident.

Yeah it's true unfortunately by the time I left H I loathed him, planning ways of killing him (which scarily enough I could have done quite easily without any suspicion) I would have been relieved if he had died.

Those, I think are the statements that confuse me the most because I don't know what a person would have to do to me before I'd feel that way about them ... and so I think ... God, I must have been hideous to live with ... but I wonder how!?

NO not at all.  Everything is warped i the mind of a depressed person.  You know that molehill you step over it is Mt Everest worse then Mount Everst as it has no hand holds it is a glass Mount Everest covered in oil.  Thinking is not possible, you know how you are in a room and you have one person talking to you then another joins in talking over the top of the other?  Like kids trying to get your attention at the same time and you can't hear any of them?  Well it's a thousand times worse in your head.  What you should be doing as mother, wife, daughter, employee/employer trying to juggle them all as they all scream at you and its spinning. 
Everyone says here how MLC is spinning you have no idea how apt that is.  It IS spinning, blurred, noisy confusing.  And when that last thing hits and you snap it may not be anything much.  It maybe simply a bill that is going to be late.  A brthday or it could be major.  And suddenly you run and there is silence as you run.  When you stop running it starts up and so you run again. 
I was lucky I was aware of depression and went to a counsellor and trid many different anti depresants till one helped stop the screaming and I could function.  I kept busy and I was a hostess at a nightclun, working nights sometimes from 4pm till 11am the following day.  I was even luckier that I found a lovely lady who "grandmothered" me and my daughters.

I know that there were some things that she wasn't happy about, but I listened and did what I could to fix them. Anyway ... it feels like a waste of energy reviewing it. I can recognize where I would be more careful in a future relationship if I ever dare go there.

The thing is both parties are at fault.  I did try and approach H but he would tell me to build a bridge and get over it.  Still hate that saying to today.  He couldn't hear what I said till it was too late.  I would say something and be dismissed.  I felt if I could't get him to hear me about the small stuff then how was I going to get him to hear me about the big?

I think there are definite elements of a depression in my wife. She is edgy and negative. I think she has had strains of a depression for a long time, and given her history ... to be honest it is understandable.

Ok here is my take on it reading many things.  If you didn't see it coming, if no one saw it coming if there is a total personality change then it rings of depression.  A walk away spouse will make plans.  Someone will see it.  The affair when you find out you will be the last to know in depression/MLC no one knows family ad frieds are floored tehy hide it so well.  They will stash money, they will want their share.  Depression whether MLC or just depressoin is insidious because we hurt we LASH out we hurt you for many reasons
- yep to make you hurt as we are hurting so so badly
- to drive you away as we think we are going to really really hurt you
- to drive you away so you don't hurt us
- to hurt us because then we actually FEEL it.
- we don't think we deserve you wedon't like us we don't believe you could.

They go to others becasue those others don't really know them that is SAFE. they can be however they want and the OP doesn't know the truth.

You seem to have had similar feelings. Did you reflect on that when you got better?

Sadly enough I didn't reflect enough once we reconciled.  In fact we didn't discuss it and was buried, a recipe for disaster.  Most likely a rather large part as to why we are here.  So do the work I know I am mean and harsh on it but if you don't want the cycle to happen again do the work now even if it means losing them.  Because losing them a second time hurts more then you could ever know.  I came back to him forever but we didn't deal with the crap and it built in him it wasn't the only reason but in the end it is a big factor.  I still feel we aren't done and I know he feels it too. (clinging boomerang) but we have so much to wade through.  We have actually started dealing more with my sitch NOW then ever before.  I think as we deal with his feelings on it I deal with it too and understad more of what he needs.  Yo need to deal with it.  You need to do the work now so you are strong enough to deal with the stuff that follows, ignoring it won't work.  It is easier to figure it out early on and risk them going then then having years together and having them walk then.

[justkeepmoving]

SL,
  Thanks so much for sharing your own experience with depression.  You have described my H a tee.  He has done everything you have described.  Know one new he was so depressed and had made his mole hill into a mountain and just wanted to get off.  He hid all that he was feeling so well and when he left so abruptly everyone was floored not just me.
  He made absolutely no plans to leave, no stock piling of money, no place to go except to a friends apt. and packed only one bag.  He just needed to RUN.
  You're right too when you say that the OP doesn't know what is really going on with him or the sitch.  But I am sure that when she realizes that he is the same mess he is as when he left me she will drop him like a hot potato as she has no vested interest in him.  I'm not sure he will turn to me at that point but until he bottoms out he will not face what he's doing or what he's done.
  I've stepped out of his drama and on my own journey.  I know who I am and what I want.  It's all so sad that he doesn't.  He thinks he's happy but he looks like sh*t.  He knows I'm here as I have always been but he may not like what he sees.  I'm not the same person.  I no longer NEED him.  I am so strong and independent.  On a true path of healing.
  Early on I thought I was depressed but now recognize that I was just very sad.  I don't have the demons that he has and I thank God for that !!

[Shantilly Lace]

Sad and depressed two different things hey. Wouldn't think it but it is.

I get sad now when things get thrust into my face. A pic of him laughing holding her. Thanks young Ds. And I have doubts about things and then he'll say something and it will remind me where he truly is. Putting on the mask doing what is expected and part of me sees the smile and goes thank god he is smiling. 
We run, we do things that feel good at the time and then as we move through the depression we feel guilt for those left behind.
I do know this it takes a very special person to stand and think to try again.
Altho his leaving me left me breathless and in unbearable pain I would not have given up those extra years even if I knew that he would leave.
I love this man. I will do this for me so that when he grabs on I am able to withstand it all. I have not fully let go or fully detached but I am getting there.

[BraveNewWorld]

Hi SL,
         Just wanted to say thanks for posting answers. I imagine it is painful for you to revisit those times. I'm glad you recovered.

In my case I absolutely didn't see this coming. We were trying for a baby even a week before the EA began. After the EA began her personality changed literally overnight. We're entering mediation, but to my knowledge she still doesn't really have any plans for where to live. She has a vague idea of a place she can rent ... but as she says she isn't going anywhere until custody is arranged. Maybe that counts as a plan. She isn't a great planner to be fair. If it was me, I'd have a checklist ready and boxes packed.

Have you read or watched Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban? There are monsters in that book called 'Dementors'. JK Rowling suffered from depression earlier in her life and I read that she developed these characters as an embodiment of how depression felt to her. They literally suck the soul out of the vulnerable ... physically weak and emotionally damaged people. Everything turns icy when they appear. They're quick to act. The way to combat them is with the most positive memories you can make.

I think if my wife is depressed, and still grieving her dad, and her childhood. Sometimes I think she is almost paralyzed by her feelings. When all of this started ... the EA, the instant threats of divorce, the monstrous things she was saying ... I think I entered a depression too. I've had some very dark thoughts. Somehow, thankfully ... I've pushed myself forward and now I want to be strong for my children. But my wife felt/feels like a 'Dementor' to me at times ... just a turn of phrase can suck the soul out of me.

Early on and a few times since then, my wife has said things to me like 'you deserve better than me, how can you love me?', 'I can't give you what you're looking for, and you can't make me happy', 'I've spent my whole life feeling worthless'.

I really see parts of your description in her.

In our history she had a similar episode to mlc just a week after we got married. Something of a personality change. It took a year of therapy and a prescription of anti-depressants ( for ocd ) to overcome that. Then she had another ocd episode a couple of years later ... I think triggered by post-partum depression. That increased the dose. It is quite high now, and I think it may be the case that it can't be increased any more. That's a concern.

Maybe space will help her. It's a mess. I feel strong enough ( today at least ) to rebuild my life without her. But it feels like such a missed opportunity for us and for our kids.

Another question. When and how did you feel love come back for your husband? Did you find that confusing? How did you know your feelings were real?

Thanks so much for your writing and your answers.

holdingon

[Shantilly Lace]

Oh yeah the dementors apt description.

My H never saw it coming.  Not at all I can still see his face as he realised I was going. I ran. Just ran blnid to my parents which I shouldn't have and then ran again from there they hadn't anticipated that either.
Feelings can paralyse don't doubt it, never doubt it.
When did i feel the love come back?  Well for me I had started meds.  It took several months to get the right ones and in that time i was running didn't want to talk to him.  I was actually terrified of him, looking back though  knew I was terrified of what I could do to him ad so was projecting.

After I was able to start thinking again without being overwhelmed I examined feelings, it took a little while I was relieved to learn he was dating, no pressure no pressure yippee.

I thought about the good and the bad and realised the good outweighed the bad I was about 6 months in from leaving him, I started thinking about going home and then the cycling started, the what ifs, what if its the same?  What if he takes me back for revenge then dumps me?  What if what if what if?  The fear.

 still didn't talk to him no till after Xmas and then decided I would approach him.  Almost didn't.  Glad i did because although he is gone for now I wouldn't give those extra years of love we had.  He can't take away the joy I had in those years, my only regret that we didn't deal with it properly but I think god is giving me another chance.

I deal with things here and then H comes ad asks me a question about what we talk about here (he doesn't know I am here it just coincides) .  He has abandonmet issues and really who can blame him in the depths of depression.  Things forgotten come up.  I journal alot on this site.  Not just to whinge but to sort stuff out to get my issues straightened out. To get the questions that will need to be dealt with out.  Not to forget it.

I look at MLC and I see MAJOR depression, things they do or say I did or said.  Most will work their way out of it with or without help they will come out of depression, I reckon and this is just from reading that the MAJORITY of those that come out will look back to the one they loved when it all fell apart becasue the emotions aren't dead it has been put on ice and stays there until they come out.

Trouble is if it takes years then the LBS often moves on.  And that is ok.
It is hard to wait.  I have been there and still find it hard to wait. 
take the time to deal with yourself, take the time to gird your loins for when they come back they will want to escape it (me) ot face up to it, but don't be like me and H, deal with it so you don't face it again.

The second time is so much worse.

[HeartsBlessing]

Shantilly,

My heartfelt thanks for the sharing you are doing; and I pray that you will heal within yourself as you continue to share your experience.

No EVER sees this coming, regardless if they remember their parents going through or not.

This is an individual trial that is faced by the individual alone.  The Lord had shown me that it wouldn't have mattered if I'd seen it coming or not; it would STILL have happened, based on the individual issues each person has with themselves, wounds suffered from childhood forward.

The only way to avoid a MLC is to have settled the issues/aspects within, and have already learned the lessons one was set to learn....people tried to teach me long before his MLC; and I didn't understand until I finally got it during his MLC.

In your postings, you have confirmed so many things the Lord had shown me during his MLC; and the fact that if the problems that caused the MLC aren't faced, plus the aspects....it is a setup for a second round of MLC..it would come in only a matter of time.

AND the second time would be MUCH worse than the first; I'd seen that when the Lord was cautioning me to help my husband at the times I was needed to be there for him.

He said that if he didn't get through completely; we'd go through again; and the second time would be worse, because the issues and aspects would be more deeply ingrained, MUCH harder to face, than the first time, if that makes sense.

What generally happens is no one can "fix" another; if the issues aren't settled before Mid Life; they will come back during the transition that becomes a crisis.

My husband had issues I was unable to "fix"; he had to do this for himself; I had my own issues that he couldn't fix...I had to fix myself.

But, there CAN BE issues that are too painful to face during the tunnel; and these are faced afterward...it is only a matter of time before these issues come to the surface.

The final issue my husband had "set aside" during his initial tunnel was one that bit him pretty hard; and in a way, it was an extended period of crisis; yet, a different kind of tunnel for him.

It was bad, at times, because it seemed that the changes I'd made during his initial crisis weren't working at all....and I had to show some deep anger toward him for his actions toward me during that time.

In fact, things finally got so bad the Lord had to intervene and allow him to break his ankle to bring him down upon his face...nothing I did was making any difference, and I was seeing it clearly.

It was coming down to a choice I might have been forced to make...making him leave because he was refusing to carry his weight within our financial situation.

I prayed to the Lord to do whatever it took to bring him down; and the Lord showed me something would happen to bring him down; and instructed me to prepare for this.

After he went down, he saw, for the first time in his life that I could survive without him....I was paying all of our bills on my own without his help...and that rattled him in a way that wasn't shown to him in the initial crisis.

Back during the initial crisis, I didn't make enough money to survive on my own; although I could have found a way, if I'd been forced to..but I wasn't...so my husband had had the impression that I needed him financially...I believe that was some of the "pride" he'd had leftover from the initial crisis; pride that led him to his downfall this time.

When he saw that I honestly did NOT need him; that was one of the factors that turned him around in a completely different way in this go around....and it brought him forward to this secondary ending.

I cannot say with any certainty that I had anything to do with what happened this time; God worked His Will within our lives; and took care of us at the same time....and brought me to the fruition of a promise made to me long ago.

This secondary tunnel was NOT my fault...I'd done all I was supposed to do the first time around.

It was my husband who didn't face it all the first time.

Stayed once said she thought all MLC'ers come out with issues that are being settled on an ongoing basis, and she's right...as I recall, my husband was still settling issues within himself for the first two or so years.

Yet, this final one; the issue of his parent's divorce that brought forth a 7 year old child; was the most painful within him...and it was SO painful; he was unable to face it within the initial crisis.

I think he tried to run from it, but there was no more running to be done...it cried out to be faced.

So, my point is, what you don't face WILL come back to be faced; if not during the initial crisis, then afterward, or even years later....but it will return until faced and settled; even if it takes an extended amount of time to do so.