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Author Topic: My Story Love and insanity

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My Story Re: Love and insanity
#120: July 24, 2021, 12:01:32 PM
TornUp: only thing I would like to add to the great posts above is this. Maybe stop trying interpret, help and be a support network for you XH. Start by taking his actions at face value and maybe stop listening to the words. He is very confused, conflicted and none of it is yours unless you make it yours.

If you don’t listen to his confused words and look at his actions only what does it say?
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love and insanity
#121: July 24, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
I’m truly sorry, Tornup, that it’s so hard for you and your family. How could it not be? But I hope on the day - and it has been the experience of others who hopefully will come along to cheer you on - that somehow love and joy smacks the bum of pain and sadness in the moment. Bc life goes on in all of its glory even if these MLCers create a sharp left hand turn in it for a while.

My former h was suicidal, self harming and under psychiatric care for a couple of years if I remember rightly. For most of the first year, I was terrified for him. But you know what? He wasn’t terrified for me at all....and in the same time period, i’d Just lost my dad, lost my mum to dementia, had cancer, got knocked down by a bus, got death threats from psycho ow (which was how I realised that there was one, and that his day to day misery was perhaps not quite as he’d portrayed it lol), was frequently dealing with suicidal thoughts and got crippling PTSD.....plus dealing with all the practicalities of an MLC divorce full of WTF and months of being ghosted.  ::) I don’t remember my then h expressing any concern or worry about me at all. Not once. Worrying about my h did nothing useful at all....for him or me tbh....but deciding (eventually) to worry about my own wellbeing did. Whatever it was that happened to my then h was simply way beyond my influence.....and if two decades of genuine love, trust and support was not enough to prevent his going into crisis and blowing his/my life up, it eventually seemed a bit illogical to me to think that my doling out more of the same would make any difference at all.

There’s a point for most LBS when we decide to invest in places where we get a return....in others who love us, in those that can use our support, in the good things we can grow in our own lives or tidying up the rubble. Tbh I think they key thing in that shift is really deeply accepting in our bones that there is nothing at all that we can do or say to affect their path one way or the other. And I guess that is harder to do with a clinger who pops up looking for emotional support from you that truthfully they have already discarded.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 12:21:58 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Love and insanity
#122: July 24, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
But do you have to LOCK  the door? As I have always thought of it, what we had is gone. He divorced, he moved on, so I moved on. This does not mean he might not get his head on straight and our path might cross again. As he is now, NC is good by me, but should he ever acknowledge what he did, have remorse for his actions and  seek to make amends, I would listen.

I have walked so far that the door isn't even visible in the distance. I didn't need to close it, much less lock it. If he happened to find that door and travel my direction and eventually find me, I'll deal with that then. My metaphoric door doesn't need to be closed. I just need to keep enough distance ahead that I don't deal with a daily dose of mlc npd.

But then, I'm also one for appreciating what I have in the now and not trying to place expectations on the future anymore.

So you can ask him to choose, or you can walk your own path no matter what he does. If you make him choose, he may feel he can never come back, even if he gets his brain together. If that is good for you, that works. If you don't make him choose, instead YOU choose that if he is with her, you are elsewhere, then he would feel like he stI'll has an opening at some time inthe future. If that is good for you, then that works.

But the main point here is why are you waiting for him to choose you or her? Do you want someone who you are forcing into a decision? How do you think that will pan out if he still wants both? Set your own boundaries. "If you want to be with her, I will not be able to speak with you."  Or whatever you decide works for you. But don't make it him deciding you or her. Make it you deciding and him reaping the consequences if he cannot work with your decision. Oddly enough, it's different.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 12:25:08 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Love and insanity
#123: July 24, 2021, 12:25:30 PM
Marvin- his actions show he is escaping, lost and confused. His words tell me he is escaping, lost and confused. However, I have not seen him 60 plus days. So, physically I have not seen him in action. With that said I have not seen him in 60 days. So, maybe that is the reality. He can live without me, his own children and grandson. The only one he spends his off time with is the subordinate OW. That relationship cant be disclosed or he would lose his job. The continued risky behavior is going to get him trouble. He has been lucky, but luck is going to to run out

Treasur- you’re right he did discard me. He get’s very hurt when I say that. He is always very loving to me in his words, but his actions say I’m not worth his time. As I am the reminder of all his failures. I just need to remember where he is spending his time. It doesn't matter if it is because he is escaping his reality. It is still a choice and his choice is not me . I have to stop trying to excuse that away due to mental illness. 
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

T
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Love and insanity
#124: July 24, 2021, 12:33:17 PM
Offroad- We actually had that conversation also.  I said if you chose her I can not be the OW. I am sure she would not be all to happy you have a side dependent relationship with your XW.

I also told him that I could not trust or accept him back now, but I could see with our history and friendship that if the clouds cleared and we struck up a friendship that maybe organically we would find our way back into  a new relationship with 2 new people that learned a a lot about triggers, communication and appreciation for what was lost and regained.

I said that could only come with separation and distance to let go of the pain and betrayal of the current relationships demise. So, maybe that is the answer. Let him continue his journey and I continue mine and if it is meant to be and he returns and I am still open than it was meant to be. If not it was never going to be repaired.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 12:34:48 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and insanity
#125: July 24, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
Offroad- We actually had that conversation also.  I said if you chose her I can not be the OW. I am sure she would not be all to happy you have a side dependent relationship with your XW.

I also told him that I could not trust or accept him back now, but I could see with our history and friendship that if the clouds cleared and we struck up a friendship that maybe organically we would find our way back into  a new relationship with 2 new people that learned a a lot about triggers, communication and appreciation for what was lost and regained.

I said that could only come with separation and distance to let go of the pain and betrayal of the current relationships demise. So, maybe that is the answer. Let him continue his journey and I continue mine and if it is meant to be and he returns and I am still open than it was meant to be. If not it was never going to be repaired.
Then I am confused. If you had this conversation, is it that you don't seem to be able to stick with your side of not being the OW because he calls and is sad? Sending the bear is a set up for him to respond, no matter the reason you sent it.  You aren't maintaining your own boundary?  Would that be accurate?

Because yes, if he's still with her, he's still with her. He's not with you or even trying to get back to you. He uses you for his own ends when he feels bad. Separate journeys unless/until the MLCer realizes what they have done and seeks to make amends OR you are able to detach and be his friend without expecting the same in return. You cannot coerce it. You can still be polite when you say you cannot talk (I'm sorry, you should be discussing this with her), but be really, really dim to NC. Complete forever NC  is very close to impossible with children, even grown ones. JMO.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 12:50:17 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Nas

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#126: July 24, 2021, 12:49:57 PM
TornUp, I’m going to say this in the way that I am viewing it as an outsider. You recently lost your 14-year-old daughter. I honestly cannot even begin to grasp the magnitude of that loss. And your ex-husband’s response to you losing your 14-year-old daughter is to add a huge mountain of more pain on top of that, in service of attempting to ease his own pain.

Looking at it from that view, now how do you want to approach him? Because you seem very invested in helping him overcoming his pain. Meanwhile, you’ve experienced the same exact pain and his response has been quite the opposite.
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#127: July 24, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Offroad- the bear was sent before the conversation. The bear was sent because of his continued struggle with our daughters death. I was trying to send comfort and share something of hers that he doesn't not have access to. I did expect a response. As anyone would. It is hard for me to part with anything that is tied to her. Even with her own father. When I sent the bear there were not boundaries. It was he can call when he needed to. I sent him a message that the box was coming and I hoped it would help.

Nas- yes, we did both lose the same daughter.  I am apparently much stronger and experienced a lot more tragedy in my life that I feel made me able to handle the loss and process it better. This was his first family loss followed by his father 3 mths later who had a heart attack over the stress of losing our daughter.

I cant imagine having my first major family death being my daughter and my dad. Also- my daughter lost her life at our home. He did mouth to mouth while I did chest compressions. He feels responsible for her death. He is not . She could not be saved. However, I have much empathy for his struggle with having to do mouth to mouth on his own daughter. It is one thing to lose a child it is another to be in the position to have to try and be then one to save her
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 01:32:33 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and insanity
#128: July 24, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Thank you, I  understand now. Again, no matter the reason, sending someone something is a setup for a response (they might or might not respond, but definitely would have no need to respond if nothing was sent), but if you had no boundary about speaking to him at the time, then it would not matter at that time. I think I have the time lines now.

Having a daughter die or find her deceased in front of you is beyond a threshold for trauma. Trying and being unable to save her would be worse. If his way of dealing with it was to run away from you to someone else, it was a reaction that is broken and you can't fix it. You can't not be you, you can't not be the other person in the room while trying to save your daughter, you can't keep other people from dying in his life. All you can control is you. If he has broken ways of dealing with bad things that happen in his life, he needs to find his way. I have never thought it a good idea for an LBS to try to be their MLC spouse's therapist.

If speaking with him is harmful to you, then there is a boundary. You have to decide if it is dim, dark or NC. If you can not care who he is with and what he is doing (detach), you can choose to be his friend, though make no mistake he is currently unable to be yours, imo. Do what is best for you. Your well being is just as important as his well being.

The above is MOO. Your mileage may vary.
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When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Love and insanity
#129: July 24, 2021, 02:53:59 PM
Offroad- yes, it is the million dollar question. What can I deal with. I think there is a part of me that feels I don't want our daughters death  also to be the death of us. I feel I want to go No Contact, but leave the door open for if he needs to talk.  I know him and I feel it would take a lot to call. Due to this I think it could result in the detachment.

I did tell him on this last call that all 30 years that we spent together that he was always looking for the next thing to look forward to. Whether taking new job opportunities, moving states, new cars. When we got to where we are we didn't have our normal move every 8 years. He did switch cars I believe 8 times in 10 years.

I did also tell him he reached a peak in his job, amazing house, kids, dogs and supportive wife and that wasn't enough. I think even if then perfect woman ( which there isn't one) was to come his way he cant get back there. The fragment of the family I feel will eat at him forever (just knowing him) and that is why you try to fix what you have after decades together.

He said last night he already regrets everything. I guess he just has to finish the journey and I need to get off his road and go on my own road.  Maybe the fork in the road may come back together or maybe it will just lead us further apart. Time will tell
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 03:01:25 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

 

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