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Author Topic: My Story Love and insanity

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My Story Love and insanity
#110: July 24, 2021, 09:07:35 AM
He is in crisis and his actions are very similar to many many others. The more you understand about MLC the easier it will be. This is not about you or how he feels about you. It is not about the OW.
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So, do I let him live his journey no matter how detrimental it is to him and our family? Do I leave the door open for him to contact me? Do I say the door is closed and you made you choice?
Yes, you let him live his own journey.  Only he may be able to figure it out or not. You cannot do it for him.
Giving him an ultimatum of making him choose you or you close the door is only if that is what you truly want to do.  Even if he were to “choose” you he could leave again the next week. He does not sound like he is anywhere near through his crisis.
So as we always say, continue to live your own life “ as though he is never coming back”.
They are a mess and we cannot help them.


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Love and insanity
#111: July 24, 2021, 09:26:19 AM
I’m confused because NOW he is stating he thinks about. Me, loves me, has thoughts of could we get back together. These are things that were not being said before. but yet he picked her. So, do I let him live his journey no matter how detrimental it is to him and our family? Do I leave the door open for him to contact me? Do I say the door is closed and you made you choice?
 I don’t think NO MATTER WHAT if I close the door and he has a revelation that he would ever tell me or contact me. Is that the door that should be closed?  I am back to clearly this is a man in TOTAL crisis. That I have loved for 3 decades. Do I just walk away.? 
He is calling me next week with a clearer head for us to make a decision on what our relationship will be going forward. Friendship or No friendship. I think it is all my decision. I honestly don’t know what to do. I can’t imagine not having him in my life at all, but I don’t know what I should ask for to remain in contact. Do I roll the dice and tell him as long as he is in a relationship in any way with OW there is no place for me?
That may seem to be the only option and I will have to let him  make it or break it.  I need insight as I  am clearly torn between love and insanity at this moment.

I’m so sorry. This is such a tough place to be. I’m reading your story, and while I’m earlier on the timeline into this crazy ride, I feel similar.  I have found writing out my feeling in letters has helped. I probably won’t actually send any of them, but at least I was honest with myself through writing it down. For me, as long as the OW are even a thought, I’m out. I need to distance myself from my Hs life and hope he can see things for himself.  I wish you the best!!!!
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Re: Love and insanity
#112: July 24, 2021, 09:51:27 AM
I’m again so torn between the love and sanity after coming so far. I really don't know if total detachment from someone so clearly  broken and only has one person in his life that is allowing him to stay in his detached escape while she uses him for his money is the right thing to do .  He still says he loves me, but  he can not handle the baggage basically of what he created still.

My opinion only. Brief version: absolutely right thing to do.

Longer version. From following your store you are not detached, you do not seem like you are living your life comfortable separately from him. Detachment is not no contact or not interacting with your H. It is about getting to a place where you have no demands, needs, wants, and your life (emotional and otherwise) is in no way entangled with his. I believe IF you can get there, and there is NO HARM in you interacting with him you can then sit on the sidelines.

But this still means accepting that you CAN NOT help him, you CAN NOT rescue him, you CAN NOT tell him what to do or force him into “healing.” To me everything you wrote above is the opposite of detachments, and its still all about you trying to make things ok for him (and by extension for you). And its about you maybe not accepting at all that you have no power, and its really not your place nor your job to “tell him” anything.

Also on a more practical level you are divorced, no? So isn’t it a bit disrespectful and infantalizing to make demands of someone who has said they want to leave, has left and who’s life is now separate from yours?

I would suggest until and unless you really get to detachment all the other questions you raised are kind of moot.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love and insanity
#113: July 24, 2021, 10:41:35 AM
Marvin-  I feel detached and without pain until I talk to him. I can see that is mot actual detachment. His utter despair than pulls me back in.  Also, no I did not feel disrespectful since we are divorced. He is the one that has said he couldn't live without me. I have said over and over that if he wants to let me go I am ready and he always says he can not make it more than 2 weeks. It wasn’t a divorce of I don't want to be with you, but a divorce of I cant look at you and live with myself. However., I see your point and he is not thinking clearly and I am and it is a bit disrespectful as he made a choice and I should be respecting that decision despite what he says now. With that I have continued reassured him of the man I know him to be and have tried to help him to get back there. If that has changed I have told him to tell me so I can fully move on. I need to reevaluate my actions obviously

I think that was my reason to force the issue. Which one? You can’t have both. If he chooses her than she should be enough. I am definitely not over the shock of the abandonment and divorce that has been only 8 months. However, I am much further than I thought I would be. I know I can live each day without despair. Even though alone I dont feel alone like I did in the first 7 months.

I now know he is worse than he was when he left. He is beginning to face the destruction and loss of his family, but he has no where to go with it. He has disconnected from all his family and the OW is the only person in his life. That relationship is an escape. I have been his life line. I DO realize that I can no be that.

When he calls I will tell him that I have to move on and he must live his life as he chose. Letting go of a person breaking down in tears that you have never witnessed in 30 years is much more difficult than I thought.  He is a diagnosed  major depressive and all you see and are told is DON’T abandon them. The fear of suicide I think is what has always kept me from totally disconnecting and even though I can go NO CONTACT on my end  I feel I could never not answer his call.  The fear if I don't it could be life ending for him. That I think has been my biggest mind battle.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:36:16 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  Married 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 deceased
D30 marry & issues for H that deceased daughter would never marry ‘13
Summer ‘15 pulling away/work 7 days a wk
August ‘16  H turned 50 & promotion requires travel & H stalls on move to new state. ‘17-major disconnect
 Jan ‘18 forced H move out due to non communication & refusal seek help. H rather div. then talk about it. Talked to atty.  Husband stopped Div.
BD1-march ‘ 18 found phone-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, EA- ow3 58 not reciprocated by OW ( 3 years) all mgrs under H
Bought second home Sept ‘18 due to H job
Moved home-Oct 18
BD2-October 20 Nov 20 H move to 2nd home in other state
OW4- 46 subordinate at work
Divorce filed-Dec ‘20   Divorce final-Feb ‘21
August 21- H moments of regret and wants family back.

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Love and insanity
#114: July 24, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Fwiw, Tornup, I think you need to take a very deep breath. Then another one  :)

What you are experiencing is that your emotions and your choices are still being affected by the rollercoaster of HIS emotions. It’s easy to see that from over here in the cheap seats bc we are not emotionally involved in the same way you are. What I hope you can see is the difference in your own posts....and the differentiating factor of him saying some things and then a 4 hour phone call. Which I would humbly suggest had a lot of emotion and confusion, but practically speaking, achieved no constructive change in the situation at all.

Please don’t beat yourself up; it’s a normal part of the LBS experience. Most of us remember phone calls or conversations like that. I certainly do.  ::) We often say here that MLC trumps divorce (at least for the MLCer) and you are living proof of that bc your divorce was so quick. It just means that, divorced or not, you are still dealing with a fractured irrational and disordered person in crisis when you interact with him. And this is likely to be so for years, not months. I suspect that part of your brain has accepted that he is in MLC probably and part of your brain is still expecting him to think and behave a bit more like the person you knew and be open to logic for example. You will need to decide for yourself what you see in front of you. And if it is MLC, it could continue this way for a very long time. And nothing you do will make any significant difference to his rollercoaster at all bc it isn’t about you or your marriage. Those are just collateral damage. Sorry.

My answer to your question? I would encourage you to release yourself from any artificial deadline. Bc tbh it is illusory. A creation of his rollercoaster and your emotional reaction creating your own rollercoaster. You don’t actually have to do or decide anything at all, Tornup. You can do nothing or simply accept, and say, that you don’t know the answer. Bc in reality nothing has really changed so you don’t need to decide on big doors right now, only how much of the dysfunction you are prepared to let in through your windows. And why. And you have nothing to work with really bc you are still dealing with a crisis rollercoaster, so it could all change in a heartbeat as others here have experienced. Which is why we say to believe nothing that they say and only half of what they do....at most lol.

Factually speaking, you are now divorced. So you might want to consider what you think are sane and sensible boundaries as an xw rather than a wife? The current information available to you is that a) your xh is in a bit of a pickle and feeling rather sorry for himself, b) that he is saying ILY type phrases while c) confirming his intention of continuing to choose to be in a relationship with someone else instead of you. For whatever reason, and for however long....these things are the current observable facts. Does that look like how someone who loves you and is capable of a healthy relationship with you behaves? What seems like a sane and sensible response, which prioritises your wellbeing and your life, to those current facts?

Hope our view from the cheap seats helps.  :)
PS take another big breath  :) trust me, the sky is not falling in, nothing huge has changed and you are likely to face numerous versions of this kind of situation again with your xh bc so far he is behaving like a pretty classic clinger. Which is, sorry to say, likely less about love for you and more about some need he felt at the time....you might find it helpful to muse calmly on what your gut tells you he was trying to get from you in that four hour conversation as if you were looking at it from your own high up cheap seats. And if you want to provide it. Or not.

And of course, you are not over the shock, dear girl. Or the pain. Or the feeling of helplessness at watching someone you love take a sledgehammer to their life and yours. Or a feeling of concern or fear or responsibility. All perfectly normal feelings a few months out from a very long marriage with an imploding spouse. Even now, I remember those feelings and they are truly awful to wrestle with.

But that is why we are encouraging you to take a breath, accept all those emotions as completely normal....bc you ARE normal, not an MLCer  :)......AND understand that feelings are NOT facts. Bc that is the difference between reacting and responding. And we all tend to make wiser choices when we can create a bit of a breathing space to be able to do the latter. More frontal cortex, less hind brain  :) I was a jolly slow learner lol, so it took me about two years to notice my own red flags.....if I interacted with my then h and came away from it feeling more confused, feeling more helpless or more anxious? I’d just had an MLC conversation. And they never produced anything useful at all  :) and the cost to me was quite high for so little return  ??? What are your own red flags telling you?
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:07:44 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Nas

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Love and insanity
#115: July 24, 2021, 10:58:37 AM
It wasn’t a divorce of I don't want to be with you, but a divorce of I cant look at you and live with myself. With that I have reassured him of the man I know him to be and have tried to help him to get back there. If that has changed I have told him to tell me so I can fully move on.


My husband is the exact definition of “I can’t look at you and live with myself.“ As such, he vanished into the ether without even bothering to divorce me. Disappeared, changed his phone number, moved somewhere unknown, changed his email address. Absolutely vanished.

Please be careful of falling into the trap of him playing on your emotions. He knows you love him, he knows that you are concerned, and he is definitely taking advantage of that. If he couldn’t look at you and live with himself, he wouldn’t hear from him. He wouldn’t be telling you that he can’t live without you. No doubt he does feel guilt and shame, but he also knows that you have concerned for him feeling that way and therefore he can use it to his advantage in a way.

His words and actions don’t match up and trying to figure out why will only cause you emotional turmoil. At this point, I would take everything at face value. You asked him to choose, he chose her. Now let him live with that choice. He does not get to have the benefits of a wife who cares and finds him doctors and lends him a shoulder to cry on.

If you feel fine when he’s not around and then emotional and confused when he is around, there’s your answer. Detachment means that you still feel OK when he is around because you completely understand that his behaviors are not about you and there’s nothing you can do about them. Detachment is not trying to figure out if there’s an alternate meaning to what he is saying or an alternate meaning to what he’s doing. Detachment means that he does what he does and it does not affect you because you are living your own life that is separate and apart from him.

You’re on your way. Detachment takes concerted effort. But if you put the work in and continue to focus on yourself, you will get there.

xx
Nas
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:00:35 AM by Nas »

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Love and insanity
#116: July 24, 2021, 11:13:27 AM
Treasur- I fully realize I am on the crazy train and dealing with MLC irrational behavior. The suicide talk is the problem I cant get past. I understand I seem all over the place and if I was disconnected I would not be reactive as I am. I clearly have more work to do. Although, I know I took several steps back. One thing I do know is this… I am not a crumpled mess today. I am not beside myself in pain. Although he traveled from his state to my state as we talked to spend Saturday with the OW I am not affected with non stop thoughts of what they are doing. I think that is because for me and interaction he has with anybody is not real. There is a weird comfort in knowing it is not me. It’s him and she has no prize at this moment as well.

Nas- you’re also right. I also feel this upcoming wedding has some factor in the need to be in a good place for our daughter and maybe once that is past and no need for in person contact and organizing of the event will allow more disconnect.

You know it dawned on me.  Maybe he is staying connected to me because he wants to keep a foot in the door to his old life while he escapes and lives another. Maybe me closing the door and making him put both feet in the life he chose will actually help him live his reality. Live the life he chose and bring him closer to choosing the the home and life whichever that maybe. There is no place like home and by his own admission no place feels like home anymore.


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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:53:27 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  Married 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 deceased
D30 marry & issues for H that deceased daughter would never marry ‘13
Summer ‘15 pulling away/work 7 days a wk
August ‘16  H turned 50 & promotion requires travel & H stalls on move to new state. ‘17-major disconnect
 Jan ‘18 forced H move out due to non communication & refusal seek help. H rather div. then talk about it. Talked to atty.  Husband stopped Div.
BD1-march ‘ 18 found phone-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, EA- ow3 58 not reciprocated by OW ( 3 years) all mgrs under H
Bought second home Sept ‘18 due to H job
Moved home-Oct 18
BD2-October 20 Nov 20 H move to 2nd home in other state
OW4- 46 subordinate at work
Divorce filed-Dec ‘20   Divorce final-Feb ‘21
August 21- H moments of regret and wants family back.

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Love and insanity
#117: July 24, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
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Maybe he is staying connected to me because he wants to keep a foot in the door to his old life while he escapes and lives another. Maybe me closing the door and making him put both feet in the life he chose will actually help him live his reality.

Ah, UM will come along with one of his clever Ding Ding gifs  :)
Yup...just so.
Bc that is how we humans learn, isn’t it?  And sometimes some of us need to take several punches in the face from the consequences of our own actions before we learn lol. And we really can’t protect someone from the effects of their own choices. But that is how RL works, isn’t it?
And, more importantly, it will be healthier for you to live YOUR reality. Painful as it is to accept.

On the suicide thing....quite a few folks here have experienced that kind of talk from their MLC ex/spouses. The best advice is the standard kind of advice tbh.....accept that someone making that choice or not is beyond your control AND take it seriously so if they talk about it, say that you will need to contact the appropriate body to do a wellness check on them bc you are concerned by them talking that way. That tends to weed out those who are just doing it for a kind of attention whilst reassuring yourself that you have acted if there is a genuine risk.

Don’t know if you feel this, but I wonder if the coming wedding might also be a slightly illusory roadblock in your current POV. The reality is that a) you will attend as recently divorced parents I assume, so no amount of magic tap dancing can make it the same as it might have been before these things happened, and that is a sad thing for you i’m sure and perhaps an uncomfortable one for him and maybe other people, and b) nothing you do can slap a temporary fix on him like a bicycle puncture to ensure he won’t behave like an MLCer on the day. And c) your daughter probably has some of her own feelings and concerns about it/him, maybe you.....have you talked to her about it? All you can do is do you.....be civil and calm, and don’t let your xh distract you from being your daughters mother. The rest is out of your hands, my friend.
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« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 11:48:47 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Love and insanity
#118: July 24, 2021, 11:48:48 AM
Tresur- I have actually called the police for a well check. He is also a cutter. As far as the wedding I have talked with my daughter and this has been a dampening on her happy event and I have tried to get through and support her even throwing a bridal shower even at a time It was painful to be happy about any wedding.

I am mad that he has made this event difficult for us all to enjoy, but have come to acceptance, but still due to family only and a small event knowing all eyes will be on us as we were the couple everyone respected and wanted to be in our family, so everyone is in shock and it’s hard.
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H-54 W-58  Married 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 deceased
D30 marry & issues for H that deceased daughter would never marry ‘13
Summer ‘15 pulling away/work 7 days a wk
August ‘16  H turned 50 & promotion requires travel & H stalls on move to new state. ‘17-major disconnect
 Jan ‘18 forced H move out due to non communication & refusal seek help. H rather div. then talk about it. Talked to atty.  Husband stopped Div.
BD1-march ‘ 18 found phone-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, EA- ow3 58 not reciprocated by OW ( 3 years) all mgrs under H
Bought second home Sept ‘18 due to H job
Moved home-Oct 18
BD2-October 20 Nov 20 H move to 2nd home in other state
OW4- 46 subordinate at work
Divorce filed-Dec ‘20   Divorce final-Feb ‘21
August 21- H moments of regret and wants family back.

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Nas

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Love and insanity
#119: July 24, 2021, 11:54:35 AM

You know it dawned on mw. Maybe he is staying connected to me because he wants to keep a foot in the door to his old life while he escapes and lives another. Maybe me closing the door and making him put both feet in the life he chose will actually help him live his reality. Live the life he chose and bring him closer to choosing the the home and life whichever that maybe. There is no place like home and by his own admission no place feels like home anymore.

This may well be true… In fact, it likely is true. But you will know that you’ve reached true and full detachment when you don’t think of it in these terms. When you think OK, I’m living my life and he’s living his, but the contemplating whether or not it will cause him to have to face himself won’t be a thought in your mind because you’ll be fully detached and it won’t matter to you whether or not he faces himself for any reason other than wanting him to be mentally well as you would any other human. Because realistically we have no control whether or not someone else ever decides to face themselves. We have no control over whether they continue to stay in their new life for whatever reason, either because it fits them better, or because they are too lazy or filled with shame or stubborn to leave the new life, or because they are complacent, or any other of 1 million reasons.

A lot of us in the early days were consumed with the thought that one day they will realize what they have lost/given up and face a reckoning. Detachment is also when you understand that they may or may not ever face that reckoning and it’s out of our control.
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