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Author Topic: My Story It’s been 2 months

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My Story It’s been 2 months
OP: July 04, 2024, 08:20:13 PM
Hi,
I don’t post on forums often. So here goes.
My husband got into a deep depression about a week before he dropped the Bomb at the end of April this year. One morning I was getting the kids homeschool lessons ready, he sits down and completely unloads. He was seeing a Counselor. He said my husband needed to talk to me. My husband told me that he only stayed with me for the kids and was waiting until most of them were raised, before making a decision to leave and work on his own problems. He said it wasn't my fault. I didn’t do anything. I’m just not the woman he thought he married. I reminded him that we had already been through something like this 20 years ago. He wanted to leave for someone else. I told him I wouldn’t stop him. Long story short, we reconciled under the conditions the he would get therapy and not to cheat again.
Now it appears it’s happening again. He is moving out next week. Today he told the 3 littlest kids. I think they only get out of it that they will have sleepovers with Dad. I don’t think they understand the concept of him leaving, yet.
For the past to months he has had mood swings. It’s like he is two people. He is desperate to scrape enough money together for 2 households. He is in charge of all the finances and bills. I have been a stay-at-home Homeschooling wife and mother for the past 32 years. We agreed on this arrangement. I set aside a BA in Art and defaulted on my student loans to be there for my family. I have successfully graduated 5 of the kids who excel at their careers and have their own savings. I have so many mixed emotions about how I feel about all of this. I can’t say on here how I feel, because sometimes it’s not very nice.
That’s my story in a nutshell.

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It’s been 2 months
#1: July 05, 2024, 12:14:22 AM
If I count correctly, you have 8 kids in total then? 5 graduated and 3 "littlest?" How many at home still?

In my tag line, there is a link to the "Survival Guide for Newbie." In that there are lots of resources to help you formulate a game plan on how to proceed. Since you have been a SAHM and caregiver, I suspect that he may be in for a REALLY rude awakening when it comes to finances. At the same time, it would be very good for you to get spun up (knowledgeable) about the family finances, your bank accounts, bills, etc.  MLC'ers are not exactly known for being financially responsible people.  It would also be appropriate to get legal advice. You don't have to DO anything about it but having the information in advance will help you in the long run.

You are now the "rock" on which your kids will depend, regardless of whether they are at home or not, as your H is off to the races.

I am sorry that you have had to find us but glad that you did as you have joined a community of people who have gone or are going through very similar things that you have been, are currently, or might end up in the future going through.  Take the advice that suits your situation and discard that which doesn't help.
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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
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BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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It’s been 2 months
#2: July 05, 2024, 03:24:09 AM
Thank you for replying. We have 8 kids. Four are living at home.
I am currently reading through the Newbie Section. A lawyer consult is the next thing on my list, as well as gathering information on Finances. 
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Re: It’s been 2 months
#3: July 07, 2024, 04:44:39 AM
So sorry you (and all of us) are here. You found a great place with people who understand. UM has been there and done that. This great place to ask questions,vent, research, whatever to help you through this. I’ve come on this forum many a time in a panic or upset and I always find answers or support. Good luck in this journey
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Update
#4: July 11, 2024, 12:14:30 PM
This post will be a bit disorganized. I am very upset right now.
This morning after DH went to work, I went into his office/man cave to get photos of most recent bills and such. I think he has a camera, but I don’t know any other way to get copies. He is moving out next week. There was an office camera paired to his phone. I didn’t see any when I used my phone’s camera to look.
Everything looks pretty normal, run-of-mill type stuff. He has a Roth IRA retirement account. I was going over the correspondence from them for May 2 and May 21st 2024.  There was a page listing beneficiaries l on the May 2:
I am listed as the Primary: Spouse, my name
Secondary: oldest DD
Secondary: oldest DS
Secondary: second oldest DD

The May 21st on lists the 3 oldest kids, a woman’s name I don’t , and the 2 youngest. I’m not on there and neither are our other 2 kids. Why is a stranger’s name on there, but I am not listed anywhere?   From her first name, I initially think of someone he works with who has the same last name. I have no way of knowing for sure. I know I am just rambling. I am upset and have no one else to talk to right now.
Common sense tells me I shouldn’t confront him about it and just let him go. I need to get myself in order. My oldest son has offered to help if  I am served papers. I never asked him to😢 I have some pretty decent kids. All the adults are really helping me out, as sometimes I feel overwhelmed with keeping things going here for the youngest ones and creating a new budget and  finding resources to eventually not have to really on DH as much anymore.   Thank you Ursa and Baxter and everyone else for your support and listening to me.
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It’s been 2 months
#5: July 11, 2024, 02:21:43 PM
I am so sorry you are going through this..it is more than heartbreaking. :'(

If you have not already done so, seek your own legal advise.

For your own financial safety, you may need to file for a legal separation or divorce.

Generally, half of the assets belong to you so listing someone else as a beneficiary only matters if he dies. If you get a settlement, all assets will be added up and generally you are entitled to half...what he does with the other assets, is his choice.

Because you have young children, he should also have to pay child support and also alimony payments for your support.

You might also be able to have yourself named as beneficiary on accounts and life insurance policy's, especially unti all the children are of legal age. Also, request that he covers your health insurance costs.

A legal separation allowed me to stay on his work health insurance...when he divorced me 9 years later (by a text message with no explaination) I lost health insurance coverage and it cost me $1200 a month to obtain coverage.

Start making a list of every expense that you and your household have. Haircuts, groceries, taxes...everything for at least 6 months. This can help determine how much money you are entitled to.

He does not have your best interest at heart as evidenced by listing another person as a beneficiary on his IRA....since he has taken that step, it is important that you protect the assets that are rightfully yours. I may not be correct but from what I understand, if he were to die she would received part of his IRA...so dividing things before he dies is extremely important.

I am very pro marriage and have been standing for a very long time.  I was encouraged by my priest to file for a legal separation to protect myself..and he was 100% right. I never thought my husband would not be "fair" and it became very clear that he did not think I was entitled to anything other than half the assets we had both worked for and accumulated over 32 years.

I quit my job 7 times to move for his career and I was not employed when he had his MLC....it's horrible and sickening to have to do this...it is the "business" part of this mess that must be taken care of...your heart and how you feel about marriage doesn't change because you take legal steps to protect yourself.

We are here to support you. Ask many questions for people here have seen it all and will be able to give you some examples of what could happen if you leave things for him to take care of.

I am so sorry.

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2024, 02:38:11 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: It’s been 2 months
#6: July 11, 2024, 07:07:04 PM
Just looked this up:

Make sure you research your state’s laws before naming your beneficiary. If you are a resident of certain states, you may be required to list your spouse as your primary beneficiary and designate him or her to receive at least 50 percent of the benefit. In some states, you can name someone else with your spouse’s written permission.

It depends on what State you live in.

I am so sorry that you are getting slammed by this.
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It’s been 2 months
#7: July 12, 2024, 01:12:33 AM
I am truly sorry that you need to find yourself here.

One of the awful realities post-BD is the seemingly relentless series of aftershocks from things we find out once we start looking at what’s going on with a different eye. We can’t take away your heartache or some of your fears, but we can encourage you - when in doubt - to trust your own eyes and instincts and act accordingly.

The details can vary but there are some universal LBS truths.
Things will always turn out to be worse than you could have imagined before BD. And to be bigger, longer and more shocking.
Nothing your h says now can be trusted unless it is independently verifiable.
There will be a waterfall of small and big lies and betrayals, bc that’s how big betrayal is built. Some of them will be ridiculous; some will literally be inconceivable to you.
Your h does not currently have anybody else’s interests or needs as a priority, just his own. And perhaps ow if there is one, as seems likely from that document. And in my world, and I hope in yours, the needs of 9 outweigh the needs of 1.

You have been a SAHM caring for 8 kids with a h who runs the joint finances.
That needs to change right now.
Dig out every document you can and take copies, every account, every potential debt, everything that might affect your future security. Go and see a lawyer asap and ask their advice on what you need to find and document and what your next steps should be. Please do not tell your h that you are doing this….to protect the 9, you need to keep your cards close to your chest right now until you and your lawyer are ready to act. You might also want to make sure you have your own bank account, credit cards etc, if you do not have these already, and perhaps start stashing funds away when you can. Again, take legal advice on this. If you have a wise close friend or family member you can trust, ask for help….sometimes a less involved brain can really help, and you may need a safe place out of the house to stash documents or personal valuables.

I am so sorry, but there are plenty of folks here who have been left destitute or homeless or had to file for bankruptcy bc of the actions of their spouse. It probably feels rather surreal and bizarre after such a long marriage, I know. But we are here to tell you that what is happening now is not toast burning but a house fire….and it’s important that you act on that basis now to protect you and your children.

Please see a lawyer asap.
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2024, 01:14:08 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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It’s been 2 months
#8: July 12, 2024, 03:59:37 AM
Seconding that you see a lawyer… like yesterday. Please don’t wait.

Only thing I would add is To pull your credit report periodically, and his as well if you can. Make sure no new accounts get opened. If there’s any way you can sign up for a credit alert service, do that, because unfortunately credit reports don’t always get updated in a timely manner and accounts can be opened, maxed out and defaulted on before the report even alerts you to its existence.

I don’t say that to scare you, I say it from experience. It’s unfortunate that our spouses have our Social Security numbers and all of our pertinent information and it’s not like we can just change any of that when they go off the rails. Keep vigilant. You said he’s desperate. Think about the things that you would least expect, and then expect that. Again, not to scare you but better safe than sorry.
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2024, 04:50:11 AM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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It’s been 2 months
#9: July 12, 2024, 07:29:20 AM
I took pics with my phone of everything yesterday.  Will those be enough?
I think he found out. He locked our bedroom door and uses our patio door to come and go. His moving day is Tuesday/Wednesday. My 2 oldest know and are helping me.
My oldest DS told me not to worry about money.
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It’s been 2 months
#10: July 12, 2024, 09:25:38 AM
Your lawyer can advise you if pictures are enough.

If you have this already, make sure that you know the amounts that are in each account....go back if you can so you can see if there is $$ missing. Having proof of this can also help.

Although it is wonderful that you will have DS support, it still really is a good idea to have your own financial security that is rightfully yours.....and the OW's  are not entitled to what is rightfully yours.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: It’s been 2 months
#11: July 12, 2024, 11:50:46 AM
Call a locksmith.
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It’s been 2 months
#12: July 12, 2024, 12:32:00 PM
I have key to the patio door and the bedroom lock is a standard push button. I can’t change the locks on our house because we both own and I can’t lock him out of his own house. I have been advised to put a chain lock on and set a curfew. He starts moving his stuff out Sunday night. He should be most of the way out by Wednesday.
My son volunteered to be financial safety net if everything goes south and we have nothing. I have a paid off credit card in my name with enough to at least get a retainer and stuff started.  I didn’t want any of the kids to have to go thru this. I don’t want their lives shipwrecked because of my DH and my stupid choices. The older kids are of the mindset that we are family and stick together and help each in times of need.
“Nobody bails”. My son’s words.

I have read everyone’s stories and posts. I will answer. I need to call my lawyer before they close today.
Thank you all for your  compassionate ears, sharing your experience, and advice.
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It’s been 2 months
#13: July 13, 2024, 01:22:59 AM

My son volunteered to be financial safety net if everything goes south and we have nothing.

I'm very happy that your son is there for you, but protecting what is existing right now is really important.  I hope you were able to call the lawyer and set up a meeting. Having "nothing" in theory is very different than really having nothing. If I can stress anything at all, it's that.  It's a difference I don't want anyone to ever have to know the true meaning of.
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« Last Edit: July 13, 2024, 01:32:36 AM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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It’s been 2 months
#14: July 14, 2024, 04:33:48 PM
So, I know it’s part of the process and it was going to happen. D borrowed a coworker’s pickup truck and he is loading it up. He has a determined I’m getting out of Dodge attitude. There is a sense of finality to this. Anyone else get that funny feeling in the pit of your stomach when this happened to you?
I know it’s the beginning of the process of his journey. I just didnt quite expect to feel this way😕

Tomorrow I speak to a lawyer. I have a credit card and I’m working on getting an online bank account set up.
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It’s been 2 months
#15: July 14, 2024, 05:21:15 PM
So, I know it’s part of the process and it was going to happen. D borrowed a coworker’s pickup truck and he is loading it up. He has a determined I’m getting out of Dodge attitude. There is a sense of finality to this. Anyone else get that funny feeling in the pit of your stomach when this happened to you?
I know it’s the beginning of the process of his journey. I just didnt quite expect to feel this way😕

Tomorrow I speak to a lawyer. I have a credit card and I’m working on getting an online bank account set up.

I’m glad you’re getting a bank account set up and talking to a lawyer to find out your rights as to how much you can put in that account and what you are entitled to in regards to every asset.

I just want to caution you on two things, having read all of your posts so far.
1. You’ve mentioned a couple times now having a credit card with no balance. My first caution is not to rely on that as your main, even one of your main sources of security.  Sure, it’s great to have for an emergency. But the last thing you want to do right now is start charging up a credit card and accruing debt that will be yours alone.
2. From your posts, it sounds a little bit like you are thinking in terms of temporary solutions instead of long-term/permanent. I really want to encourage you to start making plans for yourself that are permanent and long-term. This is not a situation where you can find a temporary fix to ride out a storm. The way to get through this now with as little damage to yourself as possible is to view this as the new reality. He is moving out, he is being deceptive and sneaky and doing things behind your back. When you meet with the lawyer, the information you gather should be about how you can live for the rest of your life without him, not how you can live for a short period of time until his “crisis” ends. There is no telling what he might do next and how it might adversely affect you and your kids. This doesn’t mean you can’t have hope for a future reconciliation, but you need security and a game plan no matter what happens.

Good luck with your meeting with the lawyer. I hope you get some good information for taking your next steps and being prepared for whatever he may do next. Lawyers have seen it all, so don’t be afraid to ask any question. The more information the better. Good luck, and hang in there.
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The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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It’s been 2 months
#16: July 30, 2024, 12:53:31 PM
Hi All,
Sorry I haven’t updated sooner. There’s been alot on my plate lately.  To quickly update, H moved out 7/16/24. I had a phone consult with my lawyer the same day. She told me the following things:
1. To start finding ways to start stashing cash and gift cards. I told her I have been.
2. To not have an earning job , on paper, before anything goes to trial. I can take small cash jobs to save up the $2600 retainer fee, if H files. The money will be deposited in a Trust account.
3. He has to be a resident in his current county for 6 months before he can file anything from there (She said he hasn’t filed).
4. She said we should wait till he files and that she would file for continued maintenance and support while our accounts are tied up, plus possible abandonment because he wouldn’t tell me where in the city he moved to he was living.
5. She told me the Judge in our county requires all divorce and separation cases to go through Mediation, for a fairer dividing of assets.
6. Because of my age, still raising/homeschooling minor dependents and launching another young adult child, as well as being out of the job market for so long. I might be able to stay on his healthcare, get to retain my part of the house as support, alimony until I can get my online business up and running. The 3 youngest would retain their current healthcare and maintenance.

Well, I need to finish up World History lesson with the kids.  I will likely come back later and just journal me feelings away.

Thank you for this space and time to share.
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It’s been 2 months
#17: July 31, 2024, 03:17:35 AM
LC, we are very glad you had a consult with an attorney. It's important for all of us, and especially for someone who has an MLCer acting the way yours is. Most of thought we never would need to know how divorce works and how to protect ourselves from our spouse. It just wasn't what we thought we needed to be prepared for.
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It’s been 2 months
#18: August 04, 2024, 06:25:46 PM
Thank you for the kind words, Reinventing. Yes, learning about the divorce process and preparing for if/when that should occur, isn’t something I expected I’d be doing a year ago. When I was talking to my lawyer and crying on the phone, she said to me, “Nobody gets married to get divorced.” I guess sometimes the only way up is down. I try to tell myself I am learning valuable skills, no matter what the outcome is.

So today I am journaling in order to help decompress after having to text H about one of our adult children aging out of our health insurance. That part wasn’t too bad. 

Then H texted and said if the 3 youngest haven’t had a fever or picked up anything else from the neighbor kids, he would pick them up Monday before dinner and bring them back Tuesday before dinner, provided he could borrow the SUV, instead of picking them up in his car. We had been sick all last week with Covid and he didn’t ask how any of us were doing. He complained he didn’t have anywhere for them to sleep. I said they would be fine camping in with him (he is renting a luxury apartment. The rent is almost as much as our mortgage). I told him be careful about our youngest son. His older brother and sister told me that he was leaning over the balcony railing last time they visited.  H said that’s not possible because the railing is too tall. I said ok. I was just going by what the other kids told me. I said I would talk to them about it. He said he would, too.  I just kept straight on topic throughout our texting today and didn’t react to anything or get defensive.

Currently he is paying on the mortgage, bills and we get $800/month deposited into one of his bank accounts I have access to. I am getting my ducks lined up. I now have an online bank account with a small cash deposit with my off the record earnings. I’m only leaving enough for a retainer fee, if/when things go south. We have a good canning garden this year. We are all caught up on our dental work. I am working Swag Bucks for Amazon gift cards, for emergency shopping. I have quite a bit of savings at the First Bank of Amazon 😄.
I have managed to slowly accumulate Visa gift cards, averaging 25$/week. I have a cash nest in an undisclosed location. I am part of an online neighborhood group that has a hiring section. I’m looking for a job cleaning houses close by. I’m just preparing for if/when TSHTF.
I find myself wondering how long this stage of MLC will last. H is living at his new place, but he has been taking over a month to get all of his stuff moved out. He even bought furniture kits for a coffee table and barstools and dropped them off here for one of the kids to put together and varnish. When they are finished, he is supposed to come pick them up and take them back to his place. The kid putting together is dragging her feet and understandably so.  H
monsters one minute and takes my stuff the next minute. I am missing my favorite purple shirt, all my charging cords and a BP monitor I bought, plus some homemade jams and jellies.  It’s really weird. It’s challenging to detach.

Today is Sunday and all of the kids friends were spending family time at their homes and couldn’t play today. I’m not alone though. Two other families on our street are in the same bought as we are. One family, a good, upright family, church-going, adopted a bunch of kids from Russia, one of the kids is a sweet special needs boy named Kai. The mom of the family is legally blind and Kai helps her around the house. The Dad holds an auction at his house and then just leaves…Out of the blue.  Another family down the street that’s a 3 generation family home. Good up  Church family. The Grandparents were the original elders of their church. The parents are wonderful and loving. They have 5 children. Then there’s us. A year ago, we home churched. He fellowshipped online with other Messianic Jewish Believers, we prayed together, I supported H when he started having health problems. The kids and I took on more home repair and managing our acre of fruit trees. We had our problems but I never thought someone could just throw away an entire family.  Right now, on this planet, there are parents and spouses crying over the loss of their loved ones. They would do anything to have those precious loved ones back. These MLCers appear be doing anything they can to get rid their families. So, that’s what I am feeling right now.
I am so sorry for the emotional word vomiting….
I should probably go back to the articles about “why” MLCers do this again, and not take it too personally.
Thank you for the space to unload. I can’t afford therapy, but a journal sure helps.
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It’s been 2 months
#19: August 04, 2024, 07:08:03 PM
LC,

You are being inventive in stashing funds, that is good.

We've all been there wondering why they choose to throw the family away. Hard to understand.

One way I understand it is that they fell out of love with themselves and we are part of them so they reject us and their past life as well. That can include children.

They are very selfish and seem to become more selfish as time goes by and they want what they want and want it now.

I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't experienced it.
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It’s been 2 months
#20: August 05, 2024, 12:32:38 AM
”I find myself wondering how long this stage of MLC will last.”

If I may, I would strongly urge you not to think in terms of stages. Doing so may cause a conscious or subconscious belief that you only need to do temporary things to hold on until things go “back to normal.” Accepting the new normal is a difficult thing, and you’re taking good steps with getting legal advice and starting to put aside money. I’d just caution you to think of these as steps towards your security in the new reality rather than steps towards holding you over until he works through a stage. No one knows what might happen, but the only thing that matters now is what’s best for you. Also, if he’s coming and taking whatever he wants or needs from the home, make sure it’s not things you actually need and/or have a right to.
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The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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It’s been 2 months
#21: August 05, 2024, 04:46:33 AM
First of all, well done on taking some of the steps you have taken on legal advice and the need to protect yourself and your kids from an uncertain future. That takes tremendous courage, especially so early on.

I agree with Nas about the risk involved in viewing YOUR future through the lens of HIS stages of MLC. Imho what you can know for certain is that your future, and your kids’ future, will not be as you once thought it would be. (And it takes a little while to grieve and really accept that new reality imho). Your h has metaphorically set fire to your old home. And even if there is a new shared metaphorical home in your futures, the original is still a smoking ruin. That’s a sad awful thing to be so blunt about but it’s still true bc that’s how life works.

As LBS, I think we cycle around the why, what and how for quite a while. And it’s pretty exhausting. As a general rule, the most simple answer to the Why in most humans is bc we want to and think either the costs don’t matter as much or won’t effect us. That PoV can change of course as things unfold, but right now your h does not value what you value or care about what you care about. And that’s hard to understand bc your brain is not wired in the same way as his, which is why it is literally incomprehensible to you.

So, for most LBS, beguiling as the why might be, the What and the How tend to be more useful. Both in dealing with MLC type behaviour and in plotting our own path forward. Focus on what you need to build a safe, solid, pleasing next chapter for you and your kids after the old one got blown up and regardless of what your h thinks, says or does is my best advice. If he turns out to be one of the few MLCers who doesn’t create too much destruction and learns wisely from his own mistakes in those MLC stages, you can always choose to invite him back into your new metaphorical home but you need to build it first so you will all be ok regardless. But until/unless that happens - and the odds of it are pretty low - it would be more like inviting an arsonist into your new home after he burned down the old one and giving him a book of matches. Don’t do that; it won’t help you and your kids and tbh it won’t help him either bc you are neither the problem or the solution. And adults tend to learn from the normal consequences that come from our own choices, don’t we? Or not.

Sadly your h has changed the trajectory of your family’s life irrecoverably, regardless of what happens down the line. Let him do him and learn - or not - from the seeds he is sowing. Meanwhile you and your kids get to choose the best shape you can build for the new future you didn’t choose bc you can still choose the what and how of that.
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Re: It’s been 2 months
#22: August 05, 2024, 06:56:47 PM
NPR did an interview with a truck driver who wrote a book about his MLC. He used the metaphor of having taken matches to his life and having burned it down.
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Re: It’s been 2 months
#23: August 05, 2024, 10:30:48 PM
NPR did an interview with a truck driver who wrote a book about his MLC. He used the metaphor of having taken matches to his life and having burned it down.

Do you have a link?
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It’s been 2 months
#24: August 06, 2024, 05:23:33 PM

I’ve read and reread replies over the past 2 days. Some things I highlighted as personal reminders for when the same questions keep popping up in my mind.
Reinventing:

“One way I understand it is that they fell out of love with themselves and we are part of them so they reject us and their past life as well. That can include children.”

I think it’s true. I really don’t think he likes himself very much. Although the selfishness can make it seem like the opposite is true.

Nas:
“If I may, I would strongly urge you not to think in terms of stages.”

I am reminding myself daily that the changes I am making are permanent, regardless of divorce, retirement, unlikely reconciliation, and advice I am giving my youngest daughters. My oldest D is hardworking and has her own money.

Treasur:
“I agree with Nas about the risk involved in viewing YOUR future through the lens of HIS stages of MLC. Imho what you can know for certain is that your future, and your kids’ future, will not be as you once thought it would be. (And it takes a little while to grieve and really accept that new reality imho). “




To be completely honest, I would rather it be that it was something I could change, than deal with someone whose compass needle keeps spinning and rely on them for financial support and co-parenting. But I know  I can’t change anything, because I’m not the cause of whatever this is, neither do I have a solution.

Right now, I am mourning the man he sometimes was. I miss watching movies with him. I miss laughing at funny stuff together. There were rare instances where he seemed happy with me. I’m grieving and almost at the point of acceptance. If I am completely honest with myself, this crisis was just waiting to happen. I could see things beginning to surface and get pushed down again, like prodromal labor pains occurring days before baby actually arrives. I would tell myself it was probably just the general stress of living on planet Earth, during a global pandemic. His depression got worse after life returned to normal.

I am surprised at how far skewed my perceptions were of our life together. Instances come to mind of decisions he’s made over the past 5 years that I would see as orange flags for an instant, then I would quickly rationalize them away in my mind. Financial decisions made could be rationalized away as getting ready for retirement. A separate bank account and credit card here in town doesn’t mean he is leaving. It means he wants to retire here in town and he is paying off and canceling all the other credit cards. I feel like such an idiot.  I never want to be that trusting and ignorant again.
The last 3 years, he stopped doing anything for Valentines Day, Mother’s Day and our anniversary. The kids and I still got him gifts and made his fried chicken on Father’s Day (he didn’t argue about that) .
Meanwhile I found myself walking on eggshells around him. He wound up in the emergency room a couple times for anxiety. Then he had prostate surgery and performance issues. Our whole family was sick with RSV last winter. Then BD at the end of April.  And everything afterward.

Treasur:

“Sadly your h has changed the trajectory of your family’s life irrecoverably, regardless of what happens down the line. Let him do him and learn - or not - from the seeds he is sowing. Meanwhile you and your kids get to choose the best shape you can build for the new future you didn’t choose bc you can still choose the what and how of that.”


My Goals:
I just need to keep moving forward. I want as much financial independence as possible. I need to detach from DH. We are on separate paths.

We only share the 3 youngest kids. The older kids want nothing to do with him and that’s not my problem. I can’t let him try to work my sympathy card one minute and sh#t on me the next. I’m looking into what another poster on this forum wrote about PTSD. I’m learning about Tap Therapy. There’s some good video tutorials online that I am finding helpful.

I think I am getting closer to acceptance. It’s vital I get there soon, although it can’t be rushed. I have a boatload of family depending on me. We are on a new journey in life.

forthetrees:

“NPR did an interview with a truck driver who wrote a book about his MLC.”

I wonder if MLCers ever feel regret in the aftermath.

I’d love to hear the interview.
Is there a link?
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It’s been 2 months
#25: August 07, 2024, 01:36:17 AM
It’s useful - if painful - imho to drop those old rose tinted glasses to some degree. We all eventually did and that’s how adult humans tend to learn and evolve; we adapt our lens.

I get that you might feel foolish or naive. I’m pretty sure that there isn’t a single LBS here that hasn’t had those moments bc where we find ourselves is so very s$it as an outcome. However, imho it’s really important to keep a bit of balance to it, to only own what belongs to you, to accept the reality of context and the practical limitations of only knowing what we know when we know it.

When people lie or manipulate or have bad intent, the core fault lies with them. I don’t know how one could ever have a close relationship, let alone a sensible marriage, without a significant level of basic trust. Do you? The fault is not in the trusting, it’s in the betrayal and with the betrayer. Important to remember that. And important to remember that the world is full of other good folks who don’t do what your h has done….if you’d been married to one of them, you would not have found yourself here and you would be reaping the rewards of a grace-filled solid partnership, right?

At the same time, most of us go through our own process of figuring out how we want to evolve and learn from this experience. Bc it is so big that it does tend to change us even if we wish it didn’t. And that often involves some inner work on why we said yes to things, or excused them, or avoided the conflict that comes with saying errr No, or put other peoples’ wants before our own, or took as normal things that we now think weren’t that normal or ok. A good IC can help with that and it takes a bit of time to figure out the bits of us that we want to keep regardlesss bc we like them and the bits that we might want to adapt.

I’m a few years out, and my former h long gone, but I found that probably 80/90% of who I was and how I’d approached my marriage was what I would have hoped to have received. I was kind, honest, generous in my judgements, fair-minded, respectful, flexible and optimistic. My former h self evidently was not so much lol….but that’s about him and his view of the world, not mine, so there really was no need for me to change those things about myself bc of him.

And to be scrupulously fair….ha ha bc that’s how I roll….not all of my changes were necessarily bc of what my then h did. Betrayal is a big damn thing, that’s true. And getting large parts of your old life being blown up practically speaking. And the MLC style mindf**kery, chaos and WTF stuff. But so is bereavement, a serious illness, a mother with advanced dementia and working my way slowly out of PTSD. Life happens, and sometimes it punches us in the face so hard that we fall over. And have to figure out how to get up again and perhaps walk a bit differently than we used to walk. Big s$it changes your world view usually imho….unless you are delusional, an MLCer or almost terminally stupid. And you don’t sound like you are any of those. :)

The bits that changed? (Some of which I like, some not so much maybe) I am much slower to jump into fixing other peoples stuff or thinking I know what is right. I probably invest less emotionally in others. I am a bit more introverted now, a bit quieter, less arrogant probably, more patient, a bit more self-centred maybe in choosing what works for me and letting others do the same, kinder in a deeper way perhaps, gentler, more appreciative of the small delights of life rather than rushing past them feeling all busy and important ha ha. There are plenty of situations now where I notice that my knee jerk reaction to them is different than it used to be - it would probably need other people who’ve known me for a long time to say how different or if it’s an improvement lol.

And that process, at least for me, took quite a few years. I’m not sure all of it was entirely intentional, just how I evolved in baby steps. I suspect if my former h ever met me now, I wouldn’t feel like quite the same person he knew in many ways.  Or indeed come with some of the same benefits as a wife. But ha ha, he ran off, so his opinion really no longer matters to me a jot now. And he obviously did not value me enough then, so pffft, he gets no vote on it.

So, by all means let yourself evolve - it’s rather encouraging as adults to see that we are capable of learning and changing, I think. But please don’t throw the metaphorical baby out with the bath water. Particularly not bc of a man who can’t even be trusted to have his own life bath tap!
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« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 02:51:45 AM by Treasur »
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Re: It’s been 2 months
#26: August 07, 2024, 06:20:14 AM
From the interview with the long haul trucker (he changed jobs, blew up his life and went back to trucking).
Link: https://www.npr.org/2018/02/14/585719252/long-haul-trucker-was-completely-seduced-by-the-open-road

MURPHY: So I was on - living on Nantucket Island as a high-profile businessman and citizen and community activist. I was actually chairman of the county commissioners on Nantucket. I was a police commissioner. I was the airport commissioner. I was on the board of the chamber of commerce. I was a successful person, married, living in a small town. And, well, what happened is I got into a relationship with a woman who wasn't my wife. And my life exploded. Or probably more accurately, I took a match to my life and blew it to pieces. And so Nantucket is not a place where that kind of thing is going to be unnoticed or uncommented upon.

And I moved to Colorado, and I called up an old driver friend of mine who started his own trucking moving company. And I said, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing now with my life. But I had always kept my commercial driver's license just because. And so then I went back out on the road because I didn't know what to do - completely lost. And you know what? There's a lot of us out there - a lot of drivers who are like that. And I knew I'd have plenty of company.
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It’s been 2 months
#27: August 07, 2024, 08:44:27 AM
Thanks for this.  Will listen.
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It’s been 2 months
#28: August 07, 2024, 09:47:52 AM
So I listened to the NPR piece.  Besides the 10 year time frame for blowing up his life.  One cant say for sure the guy had a MLC without more info.

Thanks for posting though. 
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It’s been 2 months
#29: August 14, 2024, 10:50:27 PM
Hi All,
I’ve been meaning to update, but I’ve been busy with everything here. I’m adjusting to the 3 littlest being gone every Monday night.  Tuesdays, I now have time to relax, get organized, declutter(amazing therapy btw), and drink coffee.

We have two days worth of lessons on Monday, so they stay caught up. Then H borrows the SUV and they get take out food and watch a movie at his apartment. Then they sleep. They eat breakfast the next morning and help H unpack and organize. Then they will either go to the park or a movie and get fast food.
Then they come home and are wired and tired. They get a shower and run around all over the house yelling.😲  Apparently H lives on the 3rd floor, so the kids have to be quiet. By Wednesday they have settled down and we will have a game, during which they each open up and talk about everything they did and what happened.

My youngest, S9 is usually more introverted, yet generally happy. If anything stressful happened, he will sometimes act out or be defiant. When that happens, I give him a quiet place to talk. He tries to be on his best behavior at H’s place. At home he relaxes. D11, is outgoing, confident, and  very resilient. D14 is handling it pretty well. I don’t probe for details, I just take what is offered. I want to be a safe place for them to tell me whatever. I save my opinions and attitude for my journal😀.  D11 told me that last night they watched a movie. I asked what they watched. She told me they watched The Black Hole (1979). I said that sounds interesting. What was it about?
She told me it was about a captain of a space ship who took his crew to the edge of a black hole and turned on anti gravity shields to keep the ship from sinking into the black hole. Another crew was sent out to search for them, because they had been gone for so long. The search party found them, and discovered the Captain of the ship had turned his crew into robots. His goal was to search and explore the black hole. Long story short, the rescue crew saved a couple people and the Captain and assistant go into the black hole.  I got to thinking about this story and about the MLC tunnel, and if H consciously or subconsciously chose this movie for a reason.
D and I don’t communicate 99% of the time. He will text the kids sometimes. The other night I had the feeling, for an instant, almost as if he were here in the living room, looking in, wishing he were here. I immediately pushed it aside, knowing he wasn’t actually physically there, but wondering if I was picking up on what he was feeling at that moment.  Today I found out from D26 that H had asked S20, what night would be s good night for take out pizza for the 5 oldest kids. S20 said Friday. H told D32 to tell the other kids about pizza on Friday. I heard all of this 2nd hand. This is typical of the kind of communication in this house, and with H. I don’t care if they have plans, it just that it’s like I don't exist.
However, I know it’s about the kids maintaining a connection with their Dad with experiencing conflicting loyalties.
It’s about H and his journey.
I wonder where I fit in all of this. I certainly don’t fit into the Dad and kids relationship anymore.
I don’t fit in as a spouse anymore.
I’d live to be focusing on my art, writing, and my Etsy store, if I didn’t have to deal with Mr. Short Term Memory all the time😟
Sorry for the rant.

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It’s been 2 months
#30: August 15, 2024, 09:02:11 PM
You don't ever have to apologize here for any journal entries or ranting LC.  We get it!

Yes, definitely an interesting choice of movies, even if it was a coincidence. 

I love the sounds of your Tuesdays LC.  I'm glad that you are taking advantage of that time alone!

I totally get you on the contact the kids and not the spouse (or former spouse) thing.  My MLCer used to do the same thing once he was able to.  He did the same thing for his wedding, told D17 (at the time) and it just happened to be on my Friday.  S14 and I did not find out until 2 days prior to the wedding when I reached out via text and said surely he wasn't planning on having the kids for a "BBQ thing" (D's description) on my Friday.  His response "Oh I didn't I tell you I was getting married?"  Crazy MLC!
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It’s been 2 months
#31: August 16, 2024, 12:40:59 AM
Faith Walker,
Quote from: FaithWalker
He did the same thing for his wedding, told D17 (at the time) and it just happened to be on my Friday.  S14 and I did not find out until 2 days prior to the wedding when I reached out via text and said surely he wasn't planning on having the kids for a "BBQ thing" (D's description) on my Friday.  His response "Oh I didn't I tell you I was getting married?"

I read about this on your Journey thread. I couldn’t wrap my mind around this. I can’t understand a mind that thinks like this. And…. I am beginning to see the same kind of thing happening here and we are only 4 months in. 

I am so sorry this happened to you!
Your poor kids were caught in the middle. They try so hard to honor both parents equally. It’s not fair to them when one the MLC parent is acting like such an inconsiderate @s$hat.
I think this is one of the few places where other folks understand exactly what’s happening.

When we discussed visitation, H said he wanted the 3 youngest to stay over at his place Monday nights and that he would need to borrow the SUV. I said that’s fine. The only night I really cared about having everyone here was Friday night. All the kids eat here every Friday night and then we watch a movie together. H used to come over Friday nights, too. Then he stopped. Now he is inviting the 5 oldest over to watch a movie and order pizza Friday night.  One of the kids said she is coming down with a cold and can’t make it. 
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« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 01:48:22 AM by UrsaMajor »

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It’s been 2 months
#32: August 16, 2024, 12:55:06 AM
Treasur,
Quote from: Treasur
not all of my changes were necessarily bc of what my then h did. Betrayal is a big damn thing, that’s true. And getting large parts of your old life being blown up practically speaking. And the MLC style mindf**kery, chaos and WTF stuff. But so is bereavement, a serious illness, a mother with advanced dementia and working my way slowly out of PTSD. Life happens, and sometimes it punches us in the face so hard that we fall over. And have to figure out how to get up again and perhaps walk a bit differently than we used to walk. Big s$it changes your world view usually imho….
This really spoke to me. Your entire post did. I usually take a few days to contemplate, absorb and internalize replies. First off, I really love how you summed up what the MLC “thinking” style is and how it affects those around them. It hits the nail on the head.

Also, you have gone through so many things in your life. I would love to read about your journey, if you don’t mind providing a link.
Thank you for your encouraging words.
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« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 02:05:55 AM by UrsaMajor »

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It’s been 2 months
#33: August 16, 2024, 01:47:14 AM
Rant away. That is one of the things that we are here for.... The biggest difference is that we understand why you are on a rant and what it's all about because... well.... most of us have lived through some version of it....
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It’s been 2 months
#34: August 16, 2024, 03:04:46 AM
Yeah, you get a free rant space here anytime you need it! And we understand that how you feel today may not be exactly how you’ll feel in a week/month/year etc.

Not sure I’d recommend my (many lol) old posts. I used it as a journal tbh. But if you do - or for anyone else - you can click on my name and select posts in the drop-down, then topics will give you my old threads I think.

You and your kids are very early on in this, and all of you will find ways to adjust and adapt as you go. That will usually lead you all in your own personal ways towards boundaries - things you say No, Yes and Until and Not Like This to. Hard to do this yourself while also supporting your kids in their own process; harder I’d imagine with quite a few kids with a broad age range. I’m sure that other parents here will step in with tips and tricks if you need them.

Occurs to me that one way of being kind to yourself is to accept that this process is a trial and error game so cut your timescales into smaller chunks and don’t feel that what you choose today has to be set in stone if events change or it stops working for you. So, for instance, you might tell your H that you are ok to stick to the Monday SUV plan for the next couple of months, but after that - as a man with lots of kids part time - he should probably plan to get his own kid-appropriate transport. Bc after all, that’s a predictable effect of deciding to leave your wife and family, isn’t it? And if it’s a problem, it’s not your problem to tidy up as he has fired you from your wife job and you are not a car rental service!

Can’t remember, but have you taken legal advice? Has that helped you figure out some kind of plan for you and your kids?
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« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 03:11:29 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
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Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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It’s been 2 months
#35: August 16, 2024, 04:14:23 AM
Yes, I spoke to a lawyer a back in July, the day H moved out. He doesn’t know. She told me H hadn’t filed anything. She said he would have to establish 6 months residency in the country he moved to in the next town over. He told me the town he moved to, but wouldn’t tell me anything else. Meanwhile, I am supposed to save up $2600 retainer fee and enough emergency cash to last for 3 months, for when our accounts are frozen during settlement. She said our very best chance at keeping the house is if he files first. She said I can’t be on record ss being employed because our best chances lie in the fact that I have been a stay at home, homeschooling wife for 34 years. If/when he files, the case will go through our county. The judge here always has the Divorce cases go through Mediation, which will make property settlement easier. She said that his type, moderately high profile medical professional in the community, will want to settle out of court. She says, given my age that he would end up paying spousal support, my medical insurance (I’m in good health aside from celiac disease), and child support on the 3 youngest.
Meanwhile, He is paying on the house and utilities. I’m on his work insurance, so are the minor children.   We get $800/month for groceries.
So, I am saving a little here and there. I add a gift card in with the groceries every week. I earn quite a bit of gift cards online. I opened up a checking/savings account with a little in there to keep those active. I have any emergency credit card with $0 balance. I’m on my neighbor group. I look through the listings to find house cleaning jobs nearby for extra cash. The three oldest kids are aware of the legal/financial side of this $h/ts#ow.  I think they know H can turn on a dime and are not rocking the boat. I answer texts regarding kids visitation. He doesn’t text about anything else.
That’s it in a nutshell.
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It’s been 2 months
#36: August 26, 2024, 09:08:38 PM
Journal entry / Update

I’ve been reading everyone’s updates and reading individual journeys on here. I really appreciate all of your stories and experiences. I’m finding it all so helpful and validating.

First of all, here’s my thankful list.

1. Our first purchasing option for obtaining chickens fell though, but we ended up getting a better deal somewhere else, closer by. The hens cost only $5 each and are healthy egg layers. We got three hens and they get along so well with our old rooster.  They are such a gentle bunch with no fighting or quarreling.  We made a new friend as well. We talked with the nice lady who sold them to us and we are going back for a visit sometime soon!

2. One of my sons works the night shift for a grocery supply warehouse. He came home at 6am with 1/2 case of bananas. He said they needed to get rid of them because they wouldn’t be suitable for shipping. I now have a freezer partway full of sliced, frozen bananas for smoothies, plenty for the children’s snacks, and leftovers for banana bread!

3. I have three good survey jobs online. I can cash out when I want in exchange for gift cards. I’ve been able to provide my basic personal needs, vitamins, toiletries, protein powders, lettuce seeds for the garden, etc.

Most of the time I feel pretty good. I’ve been staying busy. We are trying new things that would have looked foreign to me a few months ago.  I’ll explain in more detail in another post. The children (adults, teens, and littles) have grown a lot closer lately. There is the bickering and pecking order that wad present before. I don’t know if it’s the right thing to say, but things have felt more peaceful since H moved out. I know it sounds like a rotten thing to say, but it’s true.  The older young men are sharing there time and resources with the younger kids. All the kids will pile into the SUV and go somewhere for the day, every other Saturday. Mostly, I find that I have some quiet and time to heal. I read my Bible, spend ALOT of time outdoors, work, teach, sketch, walk, plan for a future beyond the present. It sounds silly, but once or twice I have felt lead to pray for him, briefly. My first inclination was not to, then the still, small inner voice reminding me that I might be the only one who would. So I do so, a little reluctantly, but not uncomfortably so. I feel better, and something inside me turns itself around and starts to heal, and I feel like God is pleased.

One thing I am still working on is detachment. There is the relationship between H and the kids. There is the relationship between H and myself, which is nonexistent. He doesn’t speak to me about anything anymore. I only get the text stating what time he will pick the 3 youngest up his visitation and what time he will bring them back the next day. I usually answer with ok, or one of them has the sniffles.  Sometimes he will stop by the house to pick up stuff from his side of the garage. He mainly speaks to our oldest D32. She lives here and  runs a small farm and orchard here. He has her making his furniture for his apartment. He passes messages to me thru her. He wanted to know where the stuff I had for him to sell on EBay went I reminded him he said he only wanted to sell one thing before he moved out, and that I could do what I wanted to with the rest. He told me this on two different occasions. I donated the items to charity. He was pissed. I calmly reminded him what he told me. I don’t like that my D chooses to be the go between, but I can’t maker her choices.
Yesterday, he stopped by at lunch and texted asking me if I knew who locked the large safe in his office, I texted back and told him I don’t know.
My D32 hasn’t made much progress with his furniture, so he will be here tomorrow and Wednesday working on his log barstools, coffee table and tv stand. Wednesday is also D11’s Birthday. I pray everything goes smoothly. I will just get most of my work done tonight and try to stay out of his way. I’m just so pissed at him for acting like such an entitled j@cK@s$.

I think I need advice on how to not have the panic reaction on the inside when he monsters. I can be cool and detached on the outside, using only necessary and words in texts. I think it would be helpful to hear what some of you have found helpful in the detachment process.

Also, how do you handle the left out feeling when he texts the kids and I only find out second hand information about when he is stopping by?

Well, the kids are inside having a nerf gun battle. I need to make sure the didn’t shoot the lightbulbs out😬



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#37: August 27, 2024, 01:52:54 AM
Fwiw - and you are doing SO well for such an early stage - I’m not sure I ever found a way to not feel what I actually felt at any given time. I think you can choose not to act how you feel, as you seem to be doing. And I think you can be kind with yourself that how you feel is normal and reasonable. I usually found accepting how I felt let the wave of it sort of pass through, if that makes sense, whereas trying to NOT feel it seemed to get me more entangled in the feeling for longer.

Sometimes I think I found it helpful to sit with it and try to work out what the itch behind the feeling actually was before trying to scratch it? And what a tiny bit better might feel like? So, for example, what does ‘detached’ look/feel like to you in your situation? And what’s that ‘left out’ feeling really about, rejection by him, feeling as if you don’t matter, a need to not be surprised, fear that your kids are rejecting you in some way….? No idea what the answer is but imho it’s easier to find a healthy way to scratch an itch if you know what the itch is 😝

And pinning that down might help you to decide on some different approaches to the situation. So, for instance you are quite right that it’s not your job to control your eldest daughters message relaying….but you do control whether you want to play your part in it by how/if you respond to those messages either directly or via her. And that might depend on how much/what type of contact you want or need to have with your h and how you feel about him spending time at your property right now. Or indeed how much say you feel you have over that given your family circumstances.

It’s normal I think that working out good boundaries tends to cause us to have to think a little more deeply about what we need most at a given time and what is ok enough to work round. What feels appropriate and what no longer does.

Doesn’t surprise me at all that, much as I’m sure it wasn’t what you planned, his absence from the family home feels like a bit of a relief. These folks bring a strange kind of chaotic energy with them and it can feel lighter without it. Easier to focus on chickens and bananas and the other small joys of life.

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#38: August 27, 2024, 09:21:13 AM
So I’m sitting down this morning this morning and sitting with my feelings and making a list of what’s behind them at this moment.  I feel like, if he was the one who chose to leave us, why is does he keep insisting on our help in doing so?

He insisted that the older kids load his office furniture into his friend’s pickup truck, that I look around the house for his extra belongings and pack them, and that the kids unload the furniture at his new place.  He asked our oldest D putting together furniture kits, sanding, wood staining, varnishing them, for his new life without us.    Is getting them involved in every step supposed to be closure for them?  If so, it seems as though maybe they would have a say in their involvement and volunteer to help him.  The 3 youngest did volunteer. S28 and S22 tried to get out of doing so, H insisted.  S20 has a night job so he was off the hook.  D 32, D26 didn’t show up.  So they made their choices and are learning what setting boundaries feels like for them.  So, i  a nutshell,  I feel that, since it was his choice to leave, it was his responsibility to get his stuff moved out.
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#39: August 27, 2024, 09:53:13 AM
So, i  a nutshell,  I feel that, since it was his choice to leave, it was his responsibility to get his stuff moved out.

Exactly correct. Those are the consequences of his own actions. He is responsible for the results of his actions and for the consequences of those actions.  THe kids are right to not want to deal with his stuff....
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#40: August 27, 2024, 11:05:28 AM
So, i  a nutshell,  I feel that, since it was his choice to leave, it was his responsibility to get his stuff moved out.

Exactly correct. Those are the consequences of his own actions. He is responsible for the results of his actions and for the consequences of those actions.  THe kids are right to not want to deal with his stuff....

Just so. And it’s ok if that’s how YOU feel regardless of anyone else’s opinion about it.

The tricky bit I suspect is that disordered people are rather keen on using what is called ‘flying monkeys’ - people who act indirectly on their behalf to try to control or influence YOUR behaviour. In this case, possibly, your kids. Some ‘flying monkeys’ volunteer for the job, some don’t but see it as the lesser of two evils. And you’re quite right - these kinds of situations test everyone’s’ boundaries. Which of course potentially creates conflict between you and your kids, or between different kids….while often the Great Disordered One skips off whistling 😗

But it can make for some difficult conversations…..

Not easy but a pretty good life skills lesson for the 9 of you. And in my book, the needs of the 9 outweigh the needs of the Disordered One lol.

The only reason I could think for you packing up his stuff (in a throw in a bin bag way as opposed to a wrap in tissue paper way lol) is that it prevents him popping back for 78 ‘one more things’ and gets stuff out from under your feet. You might prefer that to giving him a kind of shopping experience in your house. Lots of LBS here have experienced that, and lots have had their MLCers pop up after five years wanting a tool from the shed. 🙄 my own MLCer ignored my polite emails about stuff (and redirecting his post and signing paperwork and selling the house and….), so after about 6 months, I gave away his piano (which I had bought for him as a gift, ha ha). Two years later he sent a plaintive email about ‘needing’ his piano……

In my PoV, you all need as little drama and chaos as possible now, so do what works best for you and document anything important by email to avoid legal ketfuffles and future mindf**kery. My email to him asking if he wanted the piano resolved his complaint legally in a day!
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2024, 11:06:31 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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#41: August 27, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
I had heard of the term “flying monkeys”, before. Now I’m getting a better understanding of what that means for my situation.  D32 has been approval seeking with H, ever since he left. She gives him jars of homemade pickles and such. She agrees to do whatever he asks, although she does drag her feet if she realizes the ramifications of what she agreed to, like the furniture.  S14 appears to be susceptible to this as well.   I don’t think D32 & D14 realize the roles they are playing in this, so I don’t react as if they did anything wrong. Later on I might complain here, lol, but I don’t want any of the crazy-making to infiltrate this household.

As for his stuff, I have just been dumping whatever I happen to find in a box in the detached garage, next to the furniture. Hopefully this eliminates the need to pop into the house on his lunch break. 
Good idea emailing him regarding important stuff like property and belongings.

Thank you UM and Treasur for your insight.
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#42: August 28, 2024, 11:40:24 PM
So yesterday was D11 now 12’s birthday. 
Friend stopped by throughout the afternoon and she visited other friends. She played games with all of her siblings. There will be another party on Saturday for the friends who could make it for her Birthday party.

H came over in the afternoon to work on his furniture in the garage.  Later he came in and packed more stuff out of his office and D32 helped him load his car. Then he went and got hamburgers for D’s birthday dinner and we ate in the living room watching a movie. H ate on a stool near the front door. He avoided eye contact with me the whole time. He didn’t speak to me until I thanked him to dinner. He answered “You’re welcome “, in a higher than normal tone of voice that I know to be a strained politeness when he is aggravated. He gave D12 her gifts and left early, saying he had to go because a lamp was being delivered to his place😲.  D32 gave him another jar of pickles.

My feelings when I saw him:

This is a completely different person.

His eyes looked like he was completely lost.

He seemed 50% normal in his interaction with the kids.

I was a complete stranger to him. Not even polite chit chat.

     I had a good cry later in the evening while the kids played video games.  I thought I had gone through the grief process about our relationship and his not being himself. But it just hit me that he is gone and likely not come ming back.
When a loved one dies, there are condolences.   Family, friends, and loved ones offer comfort. There is closure and then you can commit to doing things in life to honor your loved one, knowing they would approve and be proud of you.  With MLC, there is none of this. 
Sorry if this is depressing. It’s part of the grief and letting go process and who would understand better than you wonderful, kind people.
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#43: August 28, 2024, 11:55:05 PM
Yeah, we get that. Grief is real and hard and pretty up and down in my experience. It is perhaps why some of us, not all but some, find it easier to grieve with less contact and without the equivalent of a h sitting on a stool glowering lol.

I felt much the same tbh. Where were my casseroles and sympathy? 😝

But I hope it helps a little to know that we do get it here.
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#44: August 29, 2024, 08:11:48 AM
“But I hope it helps a little to know that we do get it here.“
 It does help…

I read a quote this morning. I think it was,
“If you love someone, set them free,
If you hate someone, set them free,
Basically set everyone free,
People are annoying,
Get a dog!”
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#45: August 29, 2024, 08:33:48 AM
     I had a good cry later in the evening while the kids played video games.  I thought I had gone through the grief process about our relationship and his not being himself. But it just hit me that he is gone and likely not come ming back.
When a loved one dies, there are condolences.   Family, friends, and loved ones offer comfort. There is closure and then you can commit to doing things in life to honor your loved one, knowing they would approve and be proud of you.  With MLC, there is none of this. 
Sorry if this is depressing. It’s part of the grief and letting go process and who would understand better than you wonderful, kind people.

I feel the same exact way.  Just when I think I'm done and cried my last tear something will happen and I go off to shed a few more.  The slow death of my marriage 1 year into this has me constantly upset.  I've learned a bit better to deal with it but the pain is always right below the surface.  I'm so sorry for you in all this. God has a plan for all of us and I really had to come to terms with it.  You are not alone,  We feel your pain.   
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#46: August 29, 2024, 08:42:07 AM


I read a quote this morning. I think it was,
“If you love someone, set them free,
If you hate someone, set them free,
Basically set everyone free,
People are annoying,
Get a dog!”

Now there's an inspirational quote I can get behind!  :D ;D :) :P ;)
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#47: August 29, 2024, 09:06:09 AM


I read a quote this morning. I think it was,
“If you love someone, set them free,
If you hate someone, set them free,
Basically set everyone free,
People are annoying,
Get a dog!”

Now there's an inspirational quote I can get behind!  :D ;D :) :P ;)

I like it too.
But Gracie the little grey diva here has asked me to remind you that Cats are also available and, in her opinion, even better 😜
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#48: August 29, 2024, 07:54:04 PM
Tailspin,
Yes I agree.  God does indeed have a plan for everyone in our particular situation.  Our experience will enable us to help others, because we ourselves have been there. 
A couple years ago, I thought our family was the only one in our town, where my H would retreat to another room for a week to void any colds or illnesses in our home.  Sometimes, he would miss the holidays.  That went of for most of our marriage. He would work during the day and come home in the evening until everyone in our house had gotten whatever cold there was going around. The behavior got especially bad during Covid when everyone was being careful anyways. That’s when his Shadow really started to come out to play.  This past year was really bad depression. That’s when I suggested that he talk to someone. I told him he could talk to a pastor or doctor and everything thing would be confidential and they could give him some advice.  After his 2nd visit, he came outside and dropped the Ol’ Bomb.
God is now taking H on his journey, and the rest of our family is on a healing and forward moving journey.

Treasur,
Tell Gracie Cats are certainly welcome, too 😊. We adopted a couple of strays at our old house and they moved here with us. One was a Marmalade colored cat, and the other was a black and white domestic short hair. 

Nas,
I am encouraged by reading your journal. It helps to know we are not alone or crazy.
I’m wondering if MLC happens more often in people’s homes, but they just don’t bring it up to the neighbors. My D12’s BFF’s dad moved out and she visits him at his house on the same day D12 goes. The Dad also comes back and visits on the weekends. The grandparents live there and help with the kids.
Well, I need to finish cleaning.  Another group D12’s friends, who couldn’t make it during the week, are showing up on Saturday to celebrate her birthday. 😄
Hugs to you all!
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#49: August 30, 2024, 01:56:01 AM


I read a quote this morning. I think it was,
“If you love someone, set them free,
If you hate someone, set them free,
Basically set everyone free,
People are annoying,
Get a dog!”

Now there's an inspirational quote I can get behind!  :D ;D :) :P ;)

The one that popped up for m today was this:

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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
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BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#50: August 30, 2024, 07:42:37 PM
When a loved one dies, there are condolences.   Family, friends, and loved ones offer comfort. There is closure and then you can commit to doing things in life to honor your loved one, knowing they would approve and be proud of you.  With MLC, there is none of this. 

Yes, a few years ago I started calling myself a "Social Widow" - only social widows do not get the same consideration for sure.  But there is always some in our corner that still know what we are going through and lend a hand.  I'm so grateful for those in my corner.

I first heard the term social widow when I came across this article a while back.
https://garythomas.com/2019/03/27/the-ongoing-sin-of-divorce/

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#51: September 01, 2024, 08:10:10 AM
I lost a daughter and there is no name for that either, but people do understand your grief. Divorce and marriage breakups are so common now that people dont understand this type of discard. They just think you should move on and find someone else. I think those people haven't had a true loss  or they just dont love as deeply to understand.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
June 2022 XH bring OW to meet family due to xMIL illness
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife
May 2024 xMIL visits XH/OW in their new home
Aug 2024 cut relations w/XH fam.
Dec 2024 D33 expecting baby ( XH not told)

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#52: September 01, 2024, 05:07:03 PM
Sometimes I don’t post right away, because I can’t always put my feelings into words. I majored in art, not writing , lol.
Madluv
I agree. Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage are just so common today that they have just become background noise. It’s a lot easier to get a no contest dissolution in the States.
I think for those who truly love their spouses and are watching their older kids suffer, it’s not simply a removal of a spouse like an unwanted wisdom tooth. 
I had two miscarriages. Beginning of 2nd trimester. Saw the ultrasound visuals. No beating hearts. As you can fully understand, there are no words. Watching this different man walking around feels the same. Thank you for understanding and empathy.

FaithWalker
I read that article. Yeah, I will probably be working until I can’t, lol.  I always thought H and I might have some hobby income alongside retirement.  I guess God has different plans 😀

UM
That quote is my new inspiration when I want to throw in the towel.

I’ve been reading everything I can in the archived posts. Today I am reading the topic of Prayer.

Well everyone wants dinner. I need to go.
Thank you for your understanding.


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#53: September 04, 2024, 02:31:32 PM
Update
So today, I did something that in the moment felt right, but the kids are shocked by.

The background is that H dropped the kids off and stayed to work on his car. He sent S14 to ask if he could borrow the SUV till tomorrow. I said yes. He came back to finish fixing his car, left a laptop for D14 to fix, and left. He was M regarding passwords we needed, among other things.
D14 wanted to borrow a track pad cable off my laptop to see if it would fix H’s. My laptop is usually harvested for spare parts, most of which I have to replace, just to save H money. This time, I said, “No!”.  I explained to D14 that I am tired of saying doing saying yes to everything. I told him I have even less money than H to replace this part. I have this feeling of panic right now. It’s a sort of cognitive dissonance, for lack of a better word.  The older kids are a bit speechless.  I have been “inheriting” small bills to pay from DH. I’m trying to not dip into my emergency stash for if/when TSHTF. I think he knows this. 
It felt so uncomfortable to say no to empathy and trust, in this situation. Is this normal?  Or, is it like the reddit forum, AITA?
Honest critique and analysis welcome 🤗


D14 wanted to borrow
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#54: September 04, 2024, 03:22:40 PM
Just a very quick response from me here: you should google coercive control. A few commonalities with my M/red flags that make me say this are his 100% control of the finances throughout your marriage and the arrangement for you to stay home and home school (which is common in isolation that comes with various forms of abuse).
When someone who has been abused or under long term control first starts to say no, it can seem too loud, too aggressive, too everything, and though the nice Hollywood trope is the finally empowered heroine finding her voice and discovering her worth, it's actually quite the opposite. You wonder in every single instance if you have the right to say no or ask for common decency, you constantly wonder if you are being a nuisance or a flat out b!tc#, if you are in the wrong, or "AITA here?" It takes practice, and frankly, whether it's breaking a trauma bond, freeing oneself from abuse, fawn response, lifelong codependency, whatever the reason for never having been able to say no, if you have access to a therapist, that's really a necessary tool.
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Re: It’s been 2 months
#55: September 04, 2024, 04:21:07 PM
Listen to Nas! You're doing the right thing. It's going to take time to build this new neural pathway, but you'll look back and see how you ended the cycle of exploitation.
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#56: September 04, 2024, 04:31:42 PM
Nas,
Yeah, control has been an issue in our marriage.  It got a little better the last 6 years or so.  But now, MLCer in all his Shadow glory is getting in touch with his inner Jerk.
Thing is, any one of the things you mentioned doesn’t seem bad by itself.  Being a SAHM, homeschooling, his involvement in the finances.  But…we didn’t hang out with SAHM couples, no HS couples, no Bible study group. He was in charge of the finances and griped about our spending.  I told him to set a budget. He wouldn’t. So I did. He agreed to it. I stuck with it and ignored the griping.
I went default on my student loans so I could stay at home and do everything I do here. He said someday we would pay off my loans.  Didn’t happen. He still owes 40 grand on his. 
I’ve been sorting through my FOO origin issue over the years.  Six years ago, I had to tell my MLCer Dad, “No,” also.
At the time, it felt like I was disrespecting my father.  Now I see that it’s disrespecting him to continue to allow him to manipulate and order me around. I am seeing the same thing unfolding with H.
My lawyer told me to wait for H to file first.  He needs to establish 6 months residency where he is now, before he can file.  I am saving up a retainer fee and trying to get us through till January.  She said it’s best if I am not imployed until after the Separation/Divorce.

When, H left, he said he didn’t want the lawyers to get all the money and he wanted to treat us like we are separated. He continues to pay for stuff and he gets the minor age children 2 days a week,

I have been strongly considering a legal separation, just to not have to deal with all of his cr*p, now.  The two oldest kids are aware of most of the situation, not all. The very youngest are aware, except for something is different about his behavior. 

I do have some support.  My neighbor is aware of our situation.  This wonderful group has been a Godsend.  I have a good lawyer on standby.  I have a good Faith Community.  I have the Lord.  He has been answering so many prayers lately.  He is my Rock and my Fortress. 
TBH, when I think about, it felt really good to say, “No”, today.
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#57: September 04, 2024, 04:40:17 PM
Ready,
I just really need to stick to the uncomfortable right now, with the hope that it will be the new comfortable. 🤞
BD happened a week before Passover, this year. I don’t think that was a coincidence.  That was the last formal meal we sat down together and read the story of God delivering the Israelites from bondage.  Right now, we are crossing the Red sea. I need to keep my eyes on the Lord and not look to the right, nor the left.
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#58: September 07, 2024, 11:46:57 AM
Has anyone else experience neighbors avoiding them, after their MLCer left?  I was talking to one neighbor, while our kids were playing. Our neighbor across the street came over and started a conversation with her about their dogs, kids, etc.  Friendly neighbor would converse with both of us, while the other neighbor turned her back to me and eventually ended up between me and the other neighbor. This neighbor usually speaks to me. We have always been on good terms; greeting each other at the supermarket, she always complimented me on how well I raised my kids, etc.  Now things are decidedly different.  Another neighbor is the same way.  It’s rather an unsettling feeling.

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#59: September 07, 2024, 04:43:29 PM
LC,

Often neighbours and friends don't know how to act around any kind of change in the status quo. It's tricky! Think about how we all feel awkward talking to someone we know, but not really know, if theres a bereavement or any kind of serious life challenge, as opposed to the usual small talk and niceties. I wouldn't read too much into it unless these are people that are in your close circle of friends. If they are just people you say hi too when putting the bins out on a Monday morning then they just don't know what to say right now.
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#60: September 07, 2024, 10:08:38 PM
Yeah, I can recall times when the situation has been reversed.  It can be a delicate balance to avoid a topic, yet not appear rude.  There has been quite an unsettling ripple effect through our lives. Happily, the  kids’ friendships remain intact. With time, I think things will level out as God works out his plan for us.
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#61: September 19, 2024, 10:17:57 PM
Just a mini update
So this month appears to be “drop all the bills and see who picks them up” game by H. He doesn’t communicate with me about anything. He sends D32 to tell me.  Yay what fun😲.  First the was the internet bill (mine), then cell phone bill, then trash pick up. All those are in my name. So I did some fancy budgeting with the money he provides us and squeezed those in and pay one of those a week, with still enough for groceries for 4 people.  Then he dropped the electric bill off and my D32 and I open it. Apparently he hadn’t paid it in 3 months, so we made an emergency payment on it.  So next he sends D32 to tell me that he wants me to get the electric bill put in my name.  I’m not feeling like I should get this in my name yet, because I feel like he is separating our households financially for possible legal action down the road. I will put it into our budget, as we need electricity, but I am not in a hurry to change it. D said H doesn’t want the bills to show up at his place. I have my suspicions why.
Well, my phone battery is at 10%.
Better post now
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#62: September 20, 2024, 12:01:29 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. In this situation, you need legal advice ASAP  to0 make sure that you don't end up holding the stick at the wrong end

Of course he doesn't want the bills to show up at his place .... Why?  Because he is likely hiding the fact that he is STILL MARRIED! And of course he is going through D32 ... Why?  Because then he doesn't have to face the reality of what he is doing nor does he have to face the consequences of talking to you personally
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#63: September 20, 2024, 01:12:34 AM
I agree with UM that you need to speak to your lawyer pronto. Bc your h may not like it - and yes, he is obviously beginning a process of unravelling things even if not in a very sensible way - bc you have rights and he has obligations even if he doesn’t like it. If he has defaulted on one bill, it’s likely there are or will be others and you need to legally protect yourself the best you can from any debts he incurs.

You may wish to talk to your daughter about your boundaries and how she feels about being a message conduit for him. It’s her choice of course, and a difficult situation, but you have choices too in how you will or will not respond or involve her.
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#64: September 20, 2024, 01:14:41 AM
My lawyer said that as long as he is depositing enough to cover the food and bills, it’s fine. If he stops, then I need to get in touch with her. She thinks he will file after he has been living wherever he is living, for 6 months. She will file a motion for temporary support once that happens.
From what he told me at BD, he expected the adult kids would take over things financially after he moved out. They are showing him that they are definitely NOT🤭
I’m not sure what planet he is on right now.
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#65: September 20, 2024, 01:25:54 AM
Treasur
D32 doesn’t seem to mind relaying H’s messages, however I am careful not to have her relay anything back to him.  Although she seems neutral about relaying his messages, I don’t think it’s healthy for her.  She was always a Daddy’s Girl. Maybe that’s why she still helps him if he asks.  Or maybe she learned it from me. 
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#66: September 20, 2024, 03:56:31 AM
My lawyer said that as long as he is depositing enough to cover the food and bills, it’s fine. If he stops, then I need to get in touch with her. She thinks he will file after he has been living wherever he is living, for 6 months. She will file a motion for temporary support once that happens.
From what he told me at BD, he expected the adult kids would take over things financially after he moved out. They are showing him that they are definitely NOT🤭
I’m not sure what planet he is on right now.

First, if he has been failing to pay a bill for three months, then he is NOT depositing enough to cover that 3 months arrears. The fact you had to make an emergency payment to keep the lights on shows that he isn't covering what he is obligated or has agreed to cover.

Second, expecting the adult children to cover his share of the costs after he bailed out, while reasonable on the face of it, ONLY works if that expectation is communicated to said adult children in advance. If they have been living at "Hotel Mom and Dad" without having to worry about the financial aspects, then changing that requires him to tell them (and you) and to make arrangements with the m (and you to make that happen. The fact he has done it on a "well, I will just stop paying without notice" basis, leaving you to formulate and implement a recovery action/strategy shows that his idea of responsibility is a joke. The fact that the adult kids (who I assume are still living at home) have not picked up the slack is also an indication that he hasn't talked to them. This is something that will fall to you as you will need their support to make ends meet once MLCH is gone for good. As adults, they will also need to share the responsibility of the place they are living. If they are not at home, then it is a different story and just goes to show that MLCH has his head stuffed so far up his .... fog.... that he can't tell reality from fantasy....  .

Third, D32 may be a "Daddy's Girl" but she is NOT a valid messenger. Any messages relayed may or may not be relayed 100% accurately or completely (not out of malice but out of personal interpretation). In the military, we used to call this the "Torn Tape Relay" where messages were punched out on paper tape and the operator would have to tear the paper tape strip out of one machine and feed it into the next machine for the next leg of the transmission. Invariably, one piece of the tape would fall on the floor and under some piece of equipment so the message at the far end would usually be missing information in the middle of the message and the end receiver just had to try to figure out what the missing content of the message was.... and you are right, it is NOT healthy for her.
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Divorce final 30 August 2019
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#67: September 22, 2024, 08:55:58 PM
I'm not sure where you live, but please be careful. If you "manage" to survive on less than you really need, some states will say that is all you need (reasonable support). If you aren't getting enough because he gives you more of the household bills, it is in your best interest to ask for more to cover those bills. Example: if you get 800 for bills and groceries and you are presented with a 600 electric bill you have never paid before that is 3 months overdue, then you send a matter of fact text or email that says "the 600 electric bill was not in the original agreement for me to pay. Please add 200 to the monthly payment to cover that." Then save that message and all responses. Expect monster,  do your best not to get upset, and reiterate that he is asking for you to pay more than agreed on.

Your choice, of course, but an MLCer will try to  cheat you so they have more money for themselves.  JMO. Mine never paid a penny of child support, nor paid for anything for our son (no health insurance, no car insurance, no activities. Nothing).

Also be aware, he never has to file for divorce if he can get by paying only 800 a month. In my state, you'd be getting 500 per child. And spousal support for yourself, which would be considerable. That is 1500 plus spousal support. 800 is a DEAL! I'm not sure of the point of waiting, but it might be your area is best that way, but you are getting short changed as are your kids.
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#68: September 22, 2024, 08:59:50 PM
And I so feel your pain about being the invisible person in the family now. It's been 9 years and my D finally gets it, how everyone goes for "big family Christmas" to Dad's parents house, and I'm left sitting alone for the rest of the day after my morning 3 hours.
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#69: September 24, 2024, 11:16:20 AM
OffRoad,

“When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!”

I’ve decided to make Salsa!

I made an itemized list of our grocery and utility expenses. I subtracted what we receive from him from the total. I told him the difference is what we need from him each month.
I sent it to him in an email.  I didn’t tell him that I already receive help from the adult kids. 

I found out that texts aren’t generally accepted as evidence in court, as folks can delete the parts they don’t want anyone to see.  I have to admit to a bit of mild fear. I’m doing this for our family. If he hadn’t started offloading the bills, I never would have needed to send him a list. 

Will update more later
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#70: September 25, 2024, 01:02:36 PM
It didn’t go well. I emailed him. Kept emotion out of the conversation. He refused to provide the extra $222 I asked for. He is pressuring me to change the name on the bill.  I told the adult kids. He has been asking them to put separate bills in their name.  They refused.
I talked to a paralegal and updated her and the bills due date.
My lawyer calls back later.
I am filing for the separation of our finances. I have the funds.  I feel panic, a vague sense of relief and grief.  I’m doing my deep breathing on the Wif Hof Youtube channel. 
This protects us from him and himself and is reversible.
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#71: September 25, 2024, 10:15:41 PM
Good for you. Keep breathing.   ;) I don't know how much he earns, but most places want to keep both parties living similar lifestyles. 800 per month is probably not how you used to live, nor how he lives. And yes, this is protecting yourself and none of your adult kids are responsible for any of these bills. I mean, is the only thing you and the kids deserve is food and utilities? Will they need new clothes or shoes, will you need tires on a vehicle or insurance? Will you ever, maybe, need a new appliance?

My needs became so small I thought I didn't need much. But life teaches you that stuff happens and you need to be ready for it as best you can. Protecting yourself and your kids is just prudent. I was fortunate enough I had access to most of the bank accounts and made sure I had my half of the savings.  And copies of the bank statements. Mine spent over $20,000 in one month, so glad I had my half before then.

How are you managing? Taking care of yourself?
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#72: September 26, 2024, 09:28:49 AM
Today, I feel good. I took the morning off to take care of myself; breathing exercise, morning devotional, coffee ☕️.
Then, I called my lawyer back and got the ball rolling on Separation.  Strangely enough, my anxiety is gone and my head feels clearer. In the immediate, I wont have worry about H not paying the electric and explaining why the well water pump isn’t working.
I know it wont be simple, but at least we won’t have as much to worry about , wondering what we will have month to month.  I can now focus more on being a Mom who is fully present and not overly distracted.

“is the only thing you and the kids deserve is food and utilities? Will they need new clothes or shoes, will you need tires on a vehicle or insurance? Will you ever, maybe, need a new appliance?”

Yes, this, too was my worry.  I tested the waters to see if we could negotiate needs. I was calm and kept straight to the point in my email conversation with H.  Apparently, there is no negotiating with him. Now he will have to listen to someone else.  It’s a lot easier to detach and heal if I am not having to reach out to him regarding finances.

I am making a detailed list of everything the SUV needs. Thankfully, I have 4 grown sons to help with that 😀
An emergency repair fund for the household, including appliances, repair (we do most of our own), septic cleaning every two years, chimney sweep, gasoline for the car and lawnmower. 


Brb, I need to get D9’s allergy meds and D14’s inhaler.

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#73: September 26, 2024, 09:43:32 AM
Cont.
I think a lot of the anxiety I felt stemmed from knowing what I had to do, and how to reconcile Legal Separation with my Faith. I prayed, read about what standing means on Hero’s Spouse and Hearts Blessings websites, and looked what exactly a Separation is. The marriage stays intact, the finances are separated and protected. The children’s financial futures are protected.  The word “helpmeet “, in the Bible, in Genesis,  literally means “for or against him.”
This is literally what I am doing as his wife. 
Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I think it helped me see my own situation more clearly.
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#74: September 26, 2024, 09:47:55 AM
“And I so feel your pain about being the invisible person in the family now. It's been 9 years and my D finally gets it, how everyone goes for "big family Christmas" to Dad's parents house, and I'm left sitting alone for the rest of the day after my morning 3 hours.”

I hear you…
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#75: September 29, 2024, 08:50:08 PM
Still following along LC, just in and out.  I have done a lot of reading on Helpmeet too.  The Ezer Kenegdo.  I don't know if I'll be one again, but I sure was fascinated by what I read.
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#76: October 22, 2024, 10:14:43 AM
While journaling this morning, this came to mind:
“ Sometimes I doubt the benefit of giving the benefit of a doubt.”

It sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

The kids have various activities today, so I will update later.
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#77: October 22, 2024, 05:42:36 PM
I think that given the evidence of his actions, that is a great quote.
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#78: October 23, 2024, 03:35:39 AM
While journaling this morning, this came to mind:
“ Sometimes I doubt the benefit of giving the benefit of a doubt.”

It sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

That makes a lot of sense.
I think we give people the benefit of the doubt (bc it is a more constructive and peaceful way to live) until the evidence stacks up enough that we should stop.
Changing our mindset to the opposite - the doubt of the benefit if you like, to expect the absence of good until proved otherwise - takes all of us a bit of time bc it is not our normal way of looking at the world, is it?

It’s ok to be open-minded but not so much that your brains fall out, right?

I agree with Reinveing though. This may not be how your h behaved in the past but it is what you can see with your own eyes now. He looks like someone who can’t be trusted financially, who really only cares about his own needs and not about the needs or feelings of even his own family.
So it’s wise for that to be your starting assumption now. You gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to have a calm, reasonable discussion about finances for you and those kids….he failed to meet that challenge, so you have wisely moved to a Plan B.

He may take action that proves you wrong, of course, and you can be open-minded enough to see when/if he does, but it’s sane and sensible to not start with that assumption, isn’t it?
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« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 03:57:00 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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#79: October 29, 2024, 08:34:01 PM
Reinventing and Treasur,
I have read and reread your posts over and over.
Each time a new nugget of truth presents itself.
That it’s ok to not give benefit of a doubt, when a person consistently repeats behaviors make it risky to give a benefit of a doubt.
That I can give a benefit of a doubt, when said behaviors change for the better.

That I can give myself the benefit of a doubt. Even though I feel the little decisions I have made have led me to the situation I’m in now.  Know what I know now, I can make better decisions.

Now the Update:

H:
Things don’t seem to be going as he planned. One of the kids told me H’s car died. I felt like I wanted to offer temporary use of our SUV, until his car was fixed. I also felt he would say no. So, I prayed about it.
I mostly go gray rock and silent with him.
So I texted him and asked. He texted back no. He was already renting a car for $1000/week, until his car was fixed. He went on about all of his expenses, and that he was having a hard time paying for everything, how his potted fig tree withered up, and how this was a sign from God that he would never get any rest. I listened to him. I responded to with empathy. I told him it sounds like a hard thing and how I couldn’t imagine what it must be like paying for two households. He texted back that he would probably be working for the rest of his life to pay for things.
At this point I began to realize, this was how he sounded on other mornings we texted. I realized I am speaking with an aspect of his personality, who is beginning to regret things. Later on in the day and evening, the teenagers and children of his issues come out. So I know I need to speak with each of them separately without anger. Raising 5 boys has come in handy. Hearts Blessing’s book has come in real handy!
So, continuing with the convo, he sent a picture of a tiny Jesus doll, sitting on a desk I recognized as his, given to him by some at work.  He mentioned that was the only thing that got him through some days. I felt empathy, and suspicion.  One suspicion was that he was pulling my leg.  The other was that the OW, who I suspect is the women listed on his beneficiary list, was the one who gave it to him.  That tracks with the type of woman the MLCer might choose to work out their issues.  His Mom was religious and extremely helpful and easy to get along with.  He told me he couldn’t believe I started Separation proceedings, it supposed to be up to God when we separate. I said I agree, but we can’t seem to communicate politely about expenses. Some of his decisions were a bit questionable and not quite legal. I told him accountability was needed and if we couldn’t discuss the bills being left at our house, I needed to find someone who could speak on our behalf. I complained about how much it would all cost and we need to save money  I thought to myself, I think that ship sailed when he made a unilateral decision regarding our family. 
He asked me to leave his Bible near the front door, so he could could come pick it up. I did so, knowing that his motives might not be sincere. He picked it up two days later. I took a week in prayer, weighing what I knew, what I suspected, and what was likely to happened, and decided to get a refund in the retainer for now.  I can have back in trust in 3 days, if needed.  My lawyer has my file on standby and we are communicating . She is a dear woman.
In making my decision, I made it knowing that God wants peace and Shalom in doing what is in His perfect will and in His perfect timing.  When I started the separation process, I felt no peace, just extreme anger.  I do think putting down the retainer accomplished something good. We now receive $1400/month, exactly on time. No more @ssholing, in that regard.
I have more to update soon…
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#80: October 29, 2024, 10:08:16 PM
Putting down the retainer did accomplish something good. You know, if you absolutely have to, that you will do what is needed to protect your family financially. And your H knows it, too. This is no mean feat. It is extremely difficult to set boundaries that way and just as difficult to pull back when what was needed is provided. You have shown you are not going to be pushed around, but are reasonable. If you are like me, that sometimes feels uncomfortable because I like to make everyone's life better. But the boundaries are important. You did a wonderful job there.

I will warn you of the dangers of mlcers and vehicles. Vehicles seem to be collateral damage in an mlcers journey a lot of the time. Only loan the suv if you could live without it is my suggestion (ask me how I know). Of course, you must be true to yourself, but also consider the repercussions should something happen to the vehicle.

You can change your mind and what direction you are going as often as you need to. This is how you figure out what you and your family need. The saying "God helps those who help themselves" rings true in the mlc arena.
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#81: October 30, 2024, 01:17:41 AM
I agree with OR about the benefit of your choice and boundary. Both you and he now know that you can and will take legal recourse if you have to. Imho boundaries are communicated more clearly with actions than words.

It sounds as if you have decided to give your h the benefit of the doubt regarding finances. I hope he does not disappoint you but you now have a Plan B if he does as OR says in her last paragraph. There’s an Arabic quote to the effect of ‘Trust in God…but tie up your own camel’ which says much the same.

MLC spouses who maintain contact say some pretty stupid things. As I recall, for instance, God has some pretty harsh opinions about men who abandon their wives and families….leaving is a form of separating, is it not? And infidelity is not on the ‘go you’ list. Please be careful about how much you read into his recounting of his own woes or when he blames you for how you navigate a situation that HE has created for your family. Take it all with a fair pinch of salt…it seems to be quite possible for these folks to feel quite sorry for themselves without changing their actions one jot. To regret the consequences for themselves but miss the profound consequences for others entirely. I’m pretty confident that you were/are dealing with far more than a dying plant or a swanky rental if your car broke down….and that he has probably shown very little concern about any of your challenges or your kids’ challenges. Imho, if you choose to listen to him bemoan his lot, it’s probably wise to go for a ‘doubt’ than a ‘benefit’ when you listen until/unless his behaviour changes significantly, to not assume that x means y until you see it does. Jmo.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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It’s been 2 months
#82: October 30, 2024, 02:22:52 AM
$1000/WEEK? Seriously? What is he renting, a Mercedes AMG? A BMW M3? At that cost, he is well into the "Premium/Luxury" class of car.... If he is financially strapped, it would seem that a less expensive rental would be Priority 1 on the list.....



Good for you for setting the boundary and enforcing it. Mid-Lifers HATE that but it is one of the consequences when they go tippling down the Cotton Candy path to La-La Schmoopie land.....
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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: It’s been 2 months
#83: October 30, 2024, 03:32:27 PM
I´m trying to wrap my head around his comment that God would decide when you would separate. Since God cannot sign a legal retainer with a lawyer this makes no sense to me.
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BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

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Re: It’s been 2 months
#84: October 31, 2024, 07:47:44 AM
I´m trying to wrap my head around his comment that God would decide when you would separate. Since God cannot sign a legal retainer with a lawyer this makes no sense to me.

^^^THIS^^^
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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

L

LC

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It’s been 2 months
#85: November 02, 2024, 08:04:16 PM
FTT & UM
I have given up trying to figure him out. And, I don’t trust him as far as I could throw him. 


My goal is to work in getting the bills for our household itemized and a budget created. I found cheaper auto and homeowners insurance for us here, with the same coverage, way less than he was paying. I’m not paying for those .  The auto goes on the support card, which has $3900 limit. The homeowners gets paid by our mortgage company. I’m also getting utilities set up and on a payment schedule. Everything appears to be running smoothly. I have a gas card paired with his bank account.
Everything we spend is accounted for on both credit card statements, which should make it easier if/when this ends up in court, next year. I just have a feeling he will take some kind of legal action in the Spring.
I have three independent contract jobs performing human intelligence tasks for AI training. They don’t pay much, but they make a nice small savings. Wisely invested in the future, after the dust settles, should help make a fresh start, along with finding a real job.

So, the other day, S14 told me that H is now driving an old Chrysler on loan from a friend.
He said it stank of cigarette smoke, the airbags don’t work, all kinds of things are wrong with it. I blurted out that it was his “Midlife Chrysler”. S14 looked properly shocked, then laughed until he was in tears.  Next, he told the rest of the household. The laughter died down after 20 mins. I told him not to tell H.  He agreed not to. 
So later, S14 told me that OW (he mentioned her name, but doesn’t know she is OW) has a daughter who would smoke in the car when her mom wasn’t around. I recognized the name from the beneficiary list.  I already had a feeling she was the one who loaned him the car.  She is in her 40’s, divorced with 2 girls, chronic high blood pressure. She and H work at the same place.  He told me about her about a month before Bomb Drop. He was worried about her health.
I made an appt to talk with my IC. When I actually spoke the words out loud to her and told her everything ( suspecting who OW was, who loaned him the car, etc), I started shaking.  My Counselor told that it’s quite normal. When you actually hear the words spoken out loud, your brain starts to process what it’s hearing.  I was a bit unsettled by my reaction, but I felt so much better afterwards.

I suspect it won’t be long before he gradually introduces OW into the children’s lives, when they go to visit.  He has been buying them all kinds of toys and treats lately. He actually has started taking them places and almost being normal.
Which means….something cr@ppy is soon to follow. 

If any parents on here have any advice to give, I would greatly appreciate it.

The three youngest are S14 (he takes on H’s problems and try to find solutions), D12 (friendly, outgoing, helpful),  S9 (very intelligent, acts out at H’s place, when things are a bit off, he wonders why I don’t ever go over with him on visits)

That being said, I need to get them in for counseling, too.
D26 is studying for her degree in Psychology.  She tries to help S14 with his feeling the need to take on H’s problems, and what that might mean.

Sorry for the unedited book. :)
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F
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It’s been 2 months
#86: November 03, 2024, 07:57:01 AM
Hi LC,

I’m afraid I’m not a parent and will be unable to share feedback on the kiddo front, but I did want to connect on the shaking. I came across the following TEDtalk relatively recently and found it helpful, so wanted to share in case you may feel the same. She speaks to trembling at the 5:00 mark.

https://youtu.be/UU7eSxcBhpM?si=vDTXGi0JJl5hXAKU

As a TLDR, her primary three recommendations are to:
  • Embrace trembling, as it’s your body’s way of processing the trauma and releasing excess energy.
  • Use your senses to connect and stay (at least for a period) in the present moment.
  • Scan your body to find a space in which you feel safe (there are amazing free body scan meditations on YouTube).

Sending you hugs- you’re doing great. 💗
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“If your nerve deny you— Go above your nerve”
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“I thought my fire was out,
 and stirred the ashes…
 I burnt my fingers.”
-Antonio Machado

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It’s been 2 months
#87: November 03, 2024, 11:19:39 AM
Kids are hard. My youngest was 15 at the time. You want them to have whatever relationship they want to have with their mlc parent, but you also want them to understand that this is NOT the way to behave. And kids normally want to stay connected with both parents.

My take on this:
For your son, he needs to realize he can't fix people. Just in general. Some of us are natural fixers and it sounds like he is one of them. When you step in before being asked and just fix things for someone, it takes away their own responsibility and autonomy to fix their own issues. Your son needs to understand acceptance of what is and how to navigate it without fixing.

D12 is going to people please, imo. Make sure she takes care of herself.  Listen when she complains ( because she will, you can't people please 24/7)  and validate but don't try to fix her. You can ask questions to make her think, too.

D9 I don't have a read on. She acts out likely because she is angry. She probably understands way too much.

Make sure they know it's their father's issue, nothing to do with them should they ask.

It's extremely hard with the kids. If you stay the sane one, so they always know your rules and you stick by them, it will serve them well. Doesn't mean it won't get messy (the stories I have told here....), but they will come out the other side, around 26 years old, just fine. Yeah. That's a long time, but you have support. Remember lots of hugs and patience for the kids and yourself. :)
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It’s been 2 months
#88: November 04, 2024, 02:57:54 AM
My D13 is also a fixer for her mom (my MLCxW2) and takes responsibility for mom's emotional well-being. D13 has been in a Day Clinic for 3 months because of that and is falling back into the same schema again so I expect that she will have to go into a residential care system at some point so she is away from mom. Of course, mom sees it as MY issue and projects that D13 can't tell me what she really wants whereas I see it as an issue with MLCxW2.

D13 was happy and we had a very nice weekend together but, according to MLCxW2, D13 cried for over an hour last night and mom wrote her sick today from school (this is how it started last time too).

So, I need to notify D13's therapist and let her know what is going on.... and make an appointment for D13, her therapist and I to sit down and talk about it.... .....
Unfortunately, MLCxW2 is the parent where D13 (and S17 but he isn't buying off on the BS from mom) live
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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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It’s been 2 months
#89: November 04, 2024, 06:15:16 AM
Our kids suffer, and we as the sane parent are left to pick up the pieces.

it's hard enough for us to understand the MLCer, our kids have not only lost their family, but the MLCer also doesn't treat them the way that they once did...so how does a child comprehend that?

And I would think that the child also is torn between "picking sides" and juggling their own emotions...and this flows over into their lives.

We do the therapy, our kids do the therapy but often the MLCer just continues on their crazy path because they think there is nothing wrong with them.

As the non- MLC parent, we really have to be in tune with what is going on with our children and try to create stability and that they know we are who we are and that doesn't change.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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