[Doc Hudson]

Same, guys. And Doc, I think it's something those of us getting close to the decade mark with vanishers (or at least, not clingers or on-off-on types) have the opportunity to observe objectively, without so much feeling attached. When we're actively in these relationships it's impossible to not also be bringing to our judgment our emotions, our attachment, and our own baggage. For me, I came from the same kind of dysfunctional family as he did, so it was a quick and easy match. He was the best friend I ever had and that too was something I had to get honest about, once I started working through my own reasons for not aiming higher. He was the type of person who had such a soft identity that he would become like whoever he latched onto, matching their interests, style, etc. I even pointed it out to him at times. He could discard them just as quickly and be on to the next thing. Naively I thought, "At least I know the REAL him, who is just like me!"  As though he wasn't doing the same thing. Yes, the discard of me and the drastic things at midlife have been more extreme, but they've also come after his diagnosis and treatment of bipolar (and I do wonder if instead of chemical imbalance, it is borderline, or a combo of the two). Chicken or the egg as to what the catalyst for the bigger version is. But if we use what we learn from this we become better at relationships, more self loving, and certainly, less accommodating! Glad to hear you're doing well, Doc, and that life indeed does go on.

Hi R2T!  Yep.  This all sounds so familiar. 

You sound well.  What I went through refined me.  I cut all the bullsh*t and moved forward.  For this boon I am thankful.  Now, though, I see so many in the fog of life.  Not just the MLC fog, but the many people just mailing it in every day just to get to the next.  I wish more for them, but it is what it is.  I help who I can when I can.  The people who find their way here are lucky to have you around.  Take care.

Doc Hudson

[Doc Hudson]

Wow......I pop back in during a free hour at work and immediately land on a thread where I can actually add to the conversation.

First off, greetings Doc!  Long time, no see!  I too have lived and loved in the almost 9 years since BD and am currently engaged.  We certainly have our ups and downs but it's nothing like it was with XW (who I still see regularly, btw).  I honestly have to say XW seems much more like her pre-BD than post-BD self lately and has even been messaging me to check on my health while I've been ill these past couple weeks.  Not sure if it's genuine caring or not but no one but us knows of our interactions. 

Now, let me weigh in on the topic of this thread.  As many of the old-timers here know I work in the mental health field (20 years now) and have extensive experience in the treatment of BPD and other personality disorders.  Ironically, BPD is the most treatable of the Cluster B PD's (Narcissistic, Histrionic and Anti-social being the other three) and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy has done wonders for helping people with BPD address their emotional tendencies and unhealthy thought and relational patterns.  I do two groups a week and one of the members has been through several cycles of DBT and states that she learns something new every time.  She has been able to build both friend and acquaintance relationships and is interested in a healthy romantic one but hasn't found the right person yet.  Bottom line is that BPD really IS treatable with the right techniques and training and the potential to lead a healthy life is very high.  Many therapists even go so far as to declare someone with BPD "recovered" and no longer qualifying for the diagnosis once symptoms have been in remission for over a certain period of time (usually two years).

Now to muddy the waters a bit.  BPD is very often MISdiagnosed in clients who actually have what is known as Complex PTSD, or C-PTSD for short.  Clients with C-PTSD will have the same emotional wounding as those with BPD but without the patterns of idealizing - devaluing - discarding.  Many people with C-PTSD who have been misdiagnosed carry the stigma of BPD and often believe they are unable to build healthy relationships and often keep others at arms length to protect them or themselves.  It takes a skilled therapist and multiple interactions to properly diagnose someone with C-PTSD as opposed to BPD and it is for this reason that I am very slow to diagnose a PD at all.  Quite often people will live down to whatever their diagnosis is and once they find out that the diagnosis was inaccurate I've seen drastic behavioral and attitude changes. 

All that said, I don't believe BPD and MLC are one and the same although they do have similar traits and could likely be treated with the same techniques.  I have had a few MLCers on my caseload and the underlying depression that is likely linked to hormonal changes in the body is a bigger factor than the pre-existing mental health condition IMO.  Just my .02.

Peace to you all.

Thundarr! Yeah, I can see how it would be difficult to tell the difference.  Perhaps it matters to a professional, but not to the family I think.  I just turned 44 and my hormones are still pretty much dialed in.  I get them checked for my powerlifting tournaments.  My DHT is through the roof though.  Hasn't really dropped in 25 years, but it should have.  DHT is great for strength, but it's too anabolic.  It affects everything.  I go up a 1/2 shoe size every four years or so and I've actually grown about an inch taller  since I was 30.  I'm trying to dial it back naturally.  Supplements, etc.  I feel better.  My hair also got thicker.  I'll take it! Take care.  And for old time's sake....  DETACH!!!!!!!!

[3Boys4Me]

Thundarr, one quick question, I have heard that said about C-PTSD mimicking bipolar as well - when you refer to the idealize, devalue,  discard cycle. Can there be 18 years between cycles - my H has ended all his prior relationships in similar ways - not that there is a long list, a college girlfriend - he moved out in the middle of the night, and a first wife who he married within a year of dating and they were separated when I met him about four years later, he told me there marriage was over from the start and they were in counseling the first year, however after he left, I found a folder of emails from his first divorce and she seemed blindsided by his leaving.  We were together for 18 years, I never experienced a devaluing or discard phase during the marriage until bomb drop. He has had many episodes of rage, anxiety and depression - but I was very much loved and cherished until the last six months or so before BD.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Great post Thundarr! In addition to C-PTSD I would include other, similar but more severe early childhood trauma related disorders like DID and OSDD.