[MadLuv]

KB- I am older at 59, but one of my friends lost her H to a sudden heart attack after years of MLC and him just coming out of it.  She is now in a relationship with a man she had known for decades as friends and she has never been happier. She said, I could have 30 years possibly with him still. So, she didn’t go looking. A friendship just evolved. She is so lucky as she knows his history already. Anything is possible

[MomOfSteel]

I am sad for your D10.  It’s absolutely awful he would try to shove the responsibility for their relationship off on her.  As far as future relationships I think you are so right.  There is a lot of time left.  To me it feels scary to trust someone like I’ve trusted my H all these years.  I don’t want to be alone, but I don’t want to open myself up either, at least not anytime soon. 

[KellBell]

HF, Mad and Left-

I'm definitely not looking right now. I know I have some personal stuff to process and more healing to do before I bring someone else into my life. And I'm with you, Left, I think the trust part is going to be a tough one to get over. Learning and allowing myself to trust someone else with my heart and emotions. And then learning to trust myself- my judgement and discernment of a prospective partner. I think alot of it will come with time, more healing and growth. It's hard to see past the damage and ramifications of what has happened. But I do think as we progress further on our paths- things will be clearer and easier. We can't forget to forgive and be kind to ourselves. Know our worth and really see it. And know we have so many options and a future full of potential. 

[MadLuv]

Of course your not looking. Because, you are healing yourself and your rational thinking knows you are not ready and that should not be the priority .I feel the same! 

[KellBell]

So xh decided to come back for another retirement on Friday. Kindly asked him multiple times to please plan these things- as three of the kids are adults and have lives. And our youngest is super busy- and our weekends are usually full because I work fulltime and have school all week.

The conversation consisted of denial, playing the victim and selfishness. Fun times. But I recognized it for what it was in the moment, stayed calm and didn't react.

Towards the end of the conversation- I said it would be nice if you took our D10 overnight on Friday so that I could go out. He replied "perfect." And then about ten minutes later sent a text saying "You surprise me that you go out. You kept me in the house." I will honestly say it took all my will power not to spew a response. Because I can say wholeheartedly- I never 'kept' him in the house. WTF. I wanted to say "Ummm. I was the one with all the friends and entertained. Who exactly were you going to go out with? We had four kids at home and lived in the middle of nowhere on an acreage. It wasn't exactly easy to get away. And..." But I didn't. Because he is still in blame mode. He knows he could have talked to me. Asked me out more. Made plans to do more. Get away. HE DIDN'T. But it's just easier to blame me. Sucks to suck my dear. I'm going out this weekend. 

[xyzcf]

"You surprise me that you go out. You kept me in the house."

You did really well not to respond to this. However, the words do bite, even when we know they are ridiculous.

The lack of contact with D10 (and perhaps with the other kids as well) is appalling but very typical. You are doing really well at focusing on yourself, your family and not engaging in conversations that will amount to nothing

Have fun going out this weekend!

My daughter, son in law and his mother and I are meeting up in Florida for a couple of days over Mother's Day weekend. My daughter lives in another country and I have made her birthday, Christmas and Mother's Day as times when I shall see her, as well as other times. (COVID really was difficult since I could no see her for 17 months!!!!).

He has not spent Father's Day with her, I would say since 2003. Maybe once. Hit and miss for her birthday and Christmas, maybe sees her twice a year.

I'll take my life over his anyday.

[MadLuv]

He knows he could have talked to me. Asked me out more. Made plans to do more. Get away. HE DIDN'T. But it's just easier to blame me

In married life we get in our routines. I think in their MLC they blame that routine on part of their boredom in life they need to escape from. Then they see we are out doing things and think….oh now she not boring??? SHE was NEVER boring or the problem. It is another fine example of how skewed their view is on why we are the issue. You did great, as always!!

[MomOfSteel]

MadLuv I know this isn’t my thread, but I really needed to hear that.  My H acts surprised every time I have actual plans.  How dare I?  Really, I’m realizing my feeling like I had to wait for him was holding me back.  He would get pouty if I went to do things when he was working (which was always).  Now that I don’t consider him or his feelings I’m doing more and surprise, it makes me happy.  I socialize more with other people where before he wouldn’t feel like it, I go places I wouldn’t have because I don’t have to wait until he makes the time.  Suck it to my MLCer too! 

[KellBell]

journaling-

Xh came into town yesterday. The plan was for him to help our youngest set up her new ipad and then they were going to go do something. Instead he came over and sat on the couch and the three of us conversed for a few hours. D10 and him went through photos on his phone- laughing at memories, we talked small talk about his new house, life, my schooling etc. The conversation was light and easy and comfortable.

This was my take away from those 2 hours.

1). I have decided I don't want to be his friend. It's weird. Too much history and baggage. I look at him and I still see my husband. My bestfriend, lover and confidante. But know he is also the person who doesn't want me. Doesn't want our life. And just quit on me- walked away.  He hurt me- my heart and soul are scarred. And having him sit on my couch laughing, sharing stories and talking like a happy family was bizarre and surreal. It's not something I want right now. I wish I did. We've always talked and were close with everything. But the familiarity of the situation was too much. So for now- I don't want to be his friend. I will be civil and cordial and kind and treat him like any other distant family member. But that's it.

2). He's broken.  I watched him as he sat there on the couch, our daughter curled up at his side as they looked through photos and videos and laughed. And I just thought- how can you NOT want to experience this every day? How can you just leave and go months without facetiming her or hearing her voice or visiting her? How can you NOT want this amazing kid in your life!?

3). Depression is a mask. And although through most of the conversations he seemed to be genuinely happy and laughing and actively participating- every so often for the slightest moment, you could see the mask slip. You could see his a subtle change in his face and his eyes. In the not so subtle moments he was wallowing. For example, I mentioned I liked his pants (a pair I had bought for him a few years ago but he hated wearing- so basically giving him crap for finally wearing them) and he said "Ya. I only have like three pair - and all my jeans are shot." I asked him if work was keeping him so busy he couldn't make it to the store to get new ones and he replied "It's hard to find clothes that fit. I'm just fat and a loser." I suggested using the altering service at one of the stores I know he shops- and he dug in further saying He's just a loser. Even our D10 looked at me like 'wow- what a shift in the conversation. To lighten the mood our D said "Clothes never fit me either (she's tall and super skinny- jeans are a nightmare) So I'm a loser too."  At that point I said no one is a loser and moved the conversation onto something else. But it wasn't the only time in the visit that he said things like that. I also heard "I'm a failure. I've failed at everything" "I'm just a judgmental jerk" "Maybe I should just die too- it would probably be better" It was just weird to hear a light conversation take a 180 to that.

4) And finally- I don't want compliments from him. He was never overly gushy with me in our marriage. So lastnight when he said he was proud of me for finishing school and admired me and I was amazing. And that I looked cute with my glasses on. And asking about my boyfriend - I told him I don't have one and he said 'that's so weird- you should, you are amazing.' ---- I just didn't want to hear it. Partly because I don't trust him enough to know if it was genuine. I'm guessing asking about the boyfriend and hoping I have one - is to either take some pressure off him in a way OR to just prove "See you didn't care about me- look how fast you moved on".  Either way- it's not healthy to be in any kind of relationship with someone and be questioning the motives of their compliments. It's insane.  Not only is it insane - it causes me to monkey brain. Not that I was thinking "Oh - he's being nice to me what does that mean."  But the rationalizing of 'If I'm so cute and amazing- then why wasn't I enough for you, you stupid sh*t!'- that kind of monkey braining. So ya.

For me...I need to just keep it strictly business. Continuing working on myself and let him continue twisting on his own. But I will say it was nice to be able to step away and really see everything last night. I wasn't consumed in the moment and was able to mentally separate myself and see/dissect the incident in real time. Having that control was empowering. Not losing my cool, not getting roped into his pity rants and not feeding his ego or trying to fix things for him. Big steps forward for me.

[xyzcf]

Depression is a mask. " I'm just fat and a loser."  "he dug in further saying He's just a loser." I also heard "I'm a failure. I've failed at everything" "I'm just a judgmental jerk" "Maybe I should just die too- it would probably be better"

Thank you for sharing an insight into their state of mind. We have often called MLC the "mother of all depressions". In reading what you wrote, it struck me, how much pain is the MLCer in that they believe these things about themselves to be true? Yet, their depression prevents them from resolving these issues..instead they run, they are searching for something that will take away their pain.

Our pain is "different" and contact with them is very hard. Because our memories of what once was, and what could be are very clear in our heads and the disconnect between us is so wide. The inability to "speak" our words and be heard, we learn pretty early on that it just isn't worth it.

Many have asked me why I don't "ask" Mr. xyzcf what he wants from me, or why he keeps doing what he does. I have asked, early on, and getting the deer in the headlights gaze or having him turn on me eventually made me realize that verbal communication doesn't work with these MLCers.

One thing I found helpful that my therapist said to me as I would debate back and forth should I have contact or not (in your case, you have a 10 year old so it would be difficult to cut all contact) and she gave me "permission" in a way, by saying that I can change my mind from one day to the next. This is in my control and I do continually evaluate why I engage in any contact at all with him...allowing me to come from a place of control.

And this is pure gold:

For me...I need to just keep it strictly business. Continuing working on myself and let him continue twisting on his own. But I will say it was nice to be able to step away and really see everything last night. I wasn't consumed in the moment and was able to mentally separate myself and see/dissect the incident in real time. Having that control was empowering. Not losing my cool, not getting roped into his pity rants and not feeding his ego or trying to fix things for him. Big steps forward for me.