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Our Community / Help please
« Latest by 5hilmerton on Today at 03:31:44 AM »
Hello Shell,
 c) he is still putting the needs of our child first and not abandoning the both of us??? I feel like I am going crazy.....
Some MLC'rs do stay close to their children and some do not. Although there are a lot of similarities in the MLC script their execution is a mixed bag of marbles.

You will question if this is MLC or not throughout this crazy time.  Keep posting and asking questions, there are many who can help guide you to understand what type of crisis this is.

Our Community / Help please
« Latest by Treasur on Today at 02:49:08 AM »
Well, Shell, many here will say they play a good game for a while and then life tends to not turn out quite the way they expect bc, darn it, consequences..... :)

Idk if your h is in MLC or not. Tbh imho that tends to show up over time and often their behaviour is not magically restored to normal after they run away.

It’s a tricky balance imho to take what they DO at face value AND not believe what they SAY. Bc tbh these folks lie a lot, to us, others and themselves. Accept that he is intending to leave. Accept that at the moment your thoughts and feelings are, at best, an inconvenience to him. Expect that, most probably, there will turn out to be an ow or something else previously unimaginanble in the mix. I am so sorry but forewarned is at least a little forearmed.

My suggestion right now is that you focus on three things.

Your own mental and physical wellbeing. Sleep, food, exercise, breathing, spending time with people who care about you, get an IC....anything you need to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Bc your child needs you and you need you, whatever happens with your marriage.

Your son bc you are likely going to be the only sane stable parent for a while. I would advise you to take control of what your son hears from you about what is happening and why. You can’t control what your h says to him but he will probably lie or blame you, pretty standard. You don’t have to agree with what he says but you may want to be there to support your son or balance out truth and lies. You don’t need to tell your son everything or include how you feel about it but imho kids feel safer in chaos if they know they can trust one parent to give them age appropriate facts. Something like ‘daddy has decided that he is not happy being married to me anymore and is going to move out to his own flat. I would prefer he didn’t but I have to accept that this is what he wants to do. We will be ok, son, I love you and we will figure it out as we go. And lots of things - (list things that matter to him, school, friends, sports)  - will still stay the same even when daddy is not living with us anymore’.

Take legal advice even if you don’t feel ready to act on it. Bc your h is now someone who can’t be relied on to tell the truth or consider the damage he might cause to other people in order to get what he wants. You need to protect you and your son from the effects of his behaviour.

We can promise you that you will survive this, even though it probably feels like you can’t, and that we will be here to support you as you do. Bc we get it. And we are so sorry that this is happening to you and your family.
Our Community / Help please
« Latest by Kind18 on Today at 02:44:16 AM »

Some of the more experienced members will be along soon to help with the standard resources and some advice.

I just wanted to say - this is temporary. It might take a year, two years or even five - but there will come a time again when you are happy and feel safe/secure/content. It will feel like two steps forward/three steps back, it will get worse before it gets better, and you will have good and bad days for a long time.

Just remember - THIS IS TEMPORARY. Millions of LBS have walked this path before you, and one day it will all be okay.

As for the “going dark” getting used against you - ignore thoughts like that. He’d be moving out whether you did that or not. Don’t let him shift blame for his $h!tety behaviour. Just say “okay then”.

He will do all sorts of crazy BS like that to convince himself that he had no choice and thereby placate his guilt at ripping his family apart. Nothing you do or say will make him snap out of it, so just say “okay then” to everything.

Trying to argue/reason/plead with a WAS is like sticking your finger in a socket over and over.

I don’t think a conversation with your child saying he is the one breaking the family is healthy. Perhaps you need to get some advice on this.

Have you sought legal advice?

There’s a very good chance there’s an OW. There nearly always is. My “Christian” wife went to church with me and our children on Sunday’s and was having affair during the week when I was at work.  When I started at this site, the veterans said 95% of the time it turns out there’s an affair partner by bomb day. Having been around for a while now, I think they were spot on.

What are you doing for your own sanity? Do you exercise, have hobbies, friends, kid free time? Perhaps you should start seeing a counsellor for some help navigating this?
Our Community / Help please
« Latest by Shellshockedgrief on Today at 02:04:31 AM »
Hello Again - new at this still and I need help please. Thank you again for all your support - this forum is a life saver. I have a stay at home wallower who has told me tonight that he is looking for an apartment. He can’t live in the guest room anymore with me not talking to him anymore (I knew my going dark on him would be turned around and used as an excuse to flee). He told he no longer loved me in July and told me tonight that he feels so empowered with such clarity about his decision and announcement to me. He has no empathy for the hurt he has caused me and tells me the only person having trouble dealing with this is me. Is this normal for a MLCer??? He tells me has no intention of finding a new partner (he has had an emotional affair with a co worker). He has no concern for the damage he has caused me - I feel like I am going mad. He is making everything about our eight yo son and has dropped me and my feelings as if I don’t even matter. He wants to tell our son that we are breaking up but I have said that I will have no part in the breaking family aspect of the conversation, this whole I don’t love you anymore was dumped on me - I will have no part in telling my son that I wanted to break my family. What I want to know —— is this a MLC that my husband is suffering from if a) he is telling me he is not interested in a new partner b) he feels so empowered and has such clarity with his decision and c) he is still putting the needs of our child first and not abandoning the both of us??? I feel like I am going crazy doubting a MLC….there are many many boxes he ticks but the whole clarity and empowered comment has really thrown me. Help please xxx
Our Community / MLC husband's real issues
« Latest by Treasur on December 04, 2021, 11:41:31 PM »
It all gets a bit Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?
Imho part of our struggle as LBS is almost like training our brain to accept that two opposing things can be true about the MLCer....that they are an unravelled far from normal mess of a human AND that they are still responsible for their own choices and consequences bc that’s how life works. And how we learn although depressed MLCers of course are running hard to avoid having to do that very thing  ::)

Which is why Nas is probably quite right that he isn’t exactly ‘choosing’ to be as he is AND that you and your kids have the right to live a life which is not driven by his state of mind. Someone else’s unravelling really truly has nothing to do with you other than the extent to which you are collateral damage bc they were your spouse. It feels tremendously personal, of course, but it really isn’t. These little show and tells are a good reminder of that, but I wouldn’t waste a moment trying to figure it out. You can’t make sense if non-sense without feeling a bit nuts  :)

I was going to respond earlier about your comments about going NC. Unless you have a vanisher....and they seem to be a is difficult to be completely NC if you have minor children or indeed before your financial affairs are completely separated after a divorce. Iirc RCR has some good articles about limiting contact though....being Dark or Dim. Others here talk about being ‘Grey Rock’ and there is a useful website called, I think, Out of the Fog which has some good tips for communicating with disordered folks. You did well to not respond to his texts.....what would you say after all, and it’s no longer your wifely job to remember birthdays is it?....but learning a bit more about different ways of handling contact might help you think about how you want to manage your own boundaries moving forward. Bc your youngest is still quite young and you may end up having to communicate as a parent. And bc his crazy is self-evidently not going to magically disappear just bc he ran off to find his new ‘happy’  :)

It’s a strange experience, that’s for sure  ::)
But as Nas said, you sound like you are doing pretty well in a weird horrid situation, so well done you!
Our Community / MLC husband's real issues
« Latest by Kelly4510 on December 04, 2021, 07:31:52 PM »
A couple of things to note...

My H called one of our oldest D last night and was going on about how I should take all the girls to Rose Bowl to cheer on Utah. We live in NE. So she was confused. But he insisted saying I loved Utah and go Utes. She called and was like What? since we don't really watch any team but the Huskers. I mean we have football on and always root for the underdog because who doesn't love an upset. But weird. Then he texted me a link to buy tickets to the game and said Go Utes!  The only thing I could think of was 1) he's obviously been drinking and 2) I received a full ride to Utah when we were in high school, but I got pregnant with the twins and decided to decline the scholarship and stay closer to home so the parents could help with the babies. Have never looked back or regretted that decision. Not even sure if all the girls know that story. So I wonder...has he really regressed back to 18? Is he thinking I'm loyal to Utah? So weird.

And then this morning he texted me "I think I forgot my brother's birthday. It's tomorrow right? Or is it today?" Ummmm- his brother's birthday is 11/5. He's never forgot it. I didn't answer and he texted  "I don't know where my head is and why I can't remember this." So weird.

I was also thinking about past regression. And if he did regress back to late teens/early 20s...that's strange since we were together. We've together since we were 15 and 16. But on the other hand it does make sense. Maybe he's living out the bachelor dreams he never got to live because we had kids so young. He was ahead of me in school two years. He did go to school in Colorado but only lasted a semester before he failed out and came home. He couldn't cut it on his own. Didn't like it. Maybe now's he's trying again and trying to make it work this time. Not sure.

Anyway...just some thoughts. MLC is definitely a crazy ride.
Our Community / Re: Every Storm Runs Out of Rain - 8
« Latest by MourningDove on December 04, 2021, 03:12:01 PM »
I woke up to a very quiet house this morning. Even the puppy seemed to want to stay snuggled up, but that didn't last when she saw I was getting up to make coffee. I took her outside as I waited for my French press work it's magic and thought about what I was going to try and accomplish today.

It was quiet for about an hour before my phone rang. My M had called to ask what I had on the schedule. I had some ideas, but my M mentioned she had her annual Christmas party to go to. My M is not a social butterfly, but this is the one event she never misses.

When my sister and I were growing up, my M was essentially a stay at home M. She chipped away at a college degree and had worked in an office before I was born. By the time I was in high school, my M took a job, one day a week working for a specialist in a satellite office. She loved the job and when they initially asked her to take on more hours in the city, she jumped at the chance. My F was more than happy to support her choice as were my sister and I. We all pitched in and made dinners, etc. She worked there for several years and then decided to walk away from it after they closed the satellite completely and her commute was always into the city. That was easily 25 years ago.

Every year, that office had a holiday party. When my M left, they always invited her. My M was dearly loved in that office by the staff, the dentist and the patients. They have continued these get togethers every year, even after so many of them have retired. It is something my M looks forward to every year.

The funny thing is, my F, he is happy she has these times for herself and can find plenty to keep himself busy. Whether it is working in the studio. Or reading a book. Or whatever strikes his fancy. But, my M knew I was by myself and he was by himself, so she thought maybe we could go and pick up the sheet of insulation I still needed for the bathroom along with the lumber I wanted to pick out. I could have easily just borrowed my F's truck, but I sort of giggled to myself. I knew my F would be perfectly happy to tag along and "help" me. So, at 9:30 am he picked me up and off we went to check that off of our list. Thing is, my F and I don't often get a day where we don't have things going on or tasks that need addressed. Or people at home that might have ideas of how the day should go -  ::) So, we meandered. Oh, sure I could have accomplished so much more had I just gone to the home improvement store on my own, but we had such a nice time together.

We stopped at an antique store on the way and then tackled the task at hand. It was nearly 11 am, and I knew both of us had been up quite early. I had eaten a banana for breakfast and my F had eaten at 6 am. I suggested we go pick up brunch and we decided on going to a little diner in the city. My F reminisced and asked if I remember him bringing me there when I was a kid. We talked about how the decor has changed so much and I was smiling as my F recounted how my sister and I always wanted to sit at the counter on the bar stools, thinking that was just such a treat. And, how he and I would go faithfully every year out shopping together. My sister never wanted to go along, nor did my M. She was always busy preparing for the festivities and was happy to let the two of us go out. I can remember so many times going into the stores with my F, who loves giving gifts. The music being played in the village would crackle over the speakers in the cold air and we would stop at the local diner and get hot chocolate ands something to eat. I loved those days.

We decided to go across the street and look in one of the shops. I hadn't realized my department coordinator had a stand set up in the shop for the weekend. She gave me a huge hug and told me she has me on the list for classes and will let me know what the numbers look like. I have my fingers crossed.

I saw my F had spotted a necklace. It was lovely and he had a grin on his face as he decided it was something my M should have. On the way home, he told me that he was going to give it to her today. I started laughing and said Christmas wasn't that far away. He explained he knew that, but for their anniversary my M had told him not to make a fuss and he had only gotten her roses, which she loves. He was almost giddy, having made the decision to give this necklace to her now.

I came home and decided not to try and make up for the time I "lost" being out and just embraced the pace the day had taken on.

I think that sometimes it is not time alone I need for balance in my life. What I sometimes need is this type of time with the people I care about or just a day that meanders along where I can embrace memories or happy moments. Simple things. :)
Our Community / Full Moon Alert VI
« Latest by UrsaMajor on December 04, 2021, 01:54:16 PM »
I'm on my phone so no picture but.... Oje!!!  "Mirror work" anyone?

Tonight is the New Moon is in the sign of Sagittarius. This is the final New Moon of the year. It is time to shed our old skin, release what is dying and let go of what is not working for us. Sagittarius is about death and rebirth. This is a cycle of completions and new beginnings. We are being called to trust our deepest instincts and follow where they are taking us.

Sagittarius New Moon is all about change, just like a snake shedding its skin we will feel the need to get rid of any negative attachments holding us down and stopping us from moving forward. This New Moon is about sweeping your life clean of negative clutter. Our belief systems can crumble, routines and relationships may breakdown, structures that you have built up are challenged, things that you may have thought were reliable and dependable can come to an end, then new doors open and new chapters begin, you will be ushered into a new phase of your life.

Create the space for positive energy to enter your life. What is not working this New Moon will be highlighted. You will see new pathways and options opening for you. You can become who you truly want to be, rather than who you think you are supposed to be, this is the true meaning of transformation. Don't be afraid to look deep into yourself and ask serious questions, explore both your dark and light side, as we embrace our own darkness we become whole. We are all made of dark and light the trick is not to let one take over the other, to embrace them both equally as both are equally important, without darkness there is no light, without light there is no darkness. We acknowledge the truth of who we are, which will help us see the truth of others.

Sagittarius strength is that it isn't afraid of the dark and so when the Moon is in Sagittarius it is a perfect time to look at our shadows and see what we've been in fear of, what we have been suppressing and repressing and then dealing with it. When we face our inner demons and fears they aren't as scary as we once thought they were. Sagittarius is keen about seeing the truth and if we can be truthful with ourselves, we will have a great opportunity to complete some aspect of our lives and begin a new phase.

Let us use these rare insights the Sagittarius New Moon will bring to fuel our understanding of ourselves and the world around us, to allow us to see the big picture of what is occurring in our lives, so that we can easily navigate the changing tides. Sagittarius holds the power of the fire element, this will have our emotions on high alert, let your raw emotions come to the surface this will allow you to heal both mentally and physically.

Things are shifting now. Let’s move in a new and positive direction. The future is knocking at your door and is ready to take you on a new and exciting journey if you let it.

The New Moon in Sagittarius is sure to leave its extreme emotional mark upon us. It almost dares each of us to go into the unknown and expose new parts of the self which are waiting in the wings to be discovered. Let the fires of Sagittarius cleanse and heal you. Get to know yourself again and figure out what you really want.
« Latest by Watcher on December 04, 2021, 10:05:09 AM »
Hi Thunder,

The undercard was pretty bland for this concert and a bit rough. "Cold As You" is supposed to be a follow up to the "Hurricane" story line if you watch the videos.

I had a better seat on night #2 and the acoustics actually sounded better since I was lower I believe.

The MSG venue was nice and my next concert there will be in May with Eric Church. I do believe I prefer the Summer outdoor venues more. The songs were played in a different order for night #2 so it felt like a different concert experience.

I did follow up with four days of kickboxing as I just keep moving forward. Keep moving forward is the motto when attacking the bag, lol. Tomorrow I may have to run just to keep myself honest even though it's cold. I may need to run once a week just to get me to Spring.

I'm very fond of this new "Sweep The Leg" philosophy. I was reading this new phase comes after the agape phase has departed. IDK....Maybe the LBS should be advised to Sweep The Leg and lose the agape. ::)

Well I look forward to the day when the leg is finally swept. No Mercy !

Enjoy your day everyone
Our Community / Re: VANISHER 2
« Latest by Thunder on December 04, 2021, 06:59:38 AM »
I put it back on the board.

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