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Author Topic: My Story Love and insanity

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My Story Love and insanity
#10: June 24, 2021, 10:53:40 PM
Quote
It is a rough road when you are dealing with multiple issues. Depression, MLC, Diabetes T, low self esteem and Low t. He has also ED.  Appears now he has a issue that may need surgery.

Part of the process of detaching (and it takes most of us a while) is being able to firmly replace the YOU with a HE in the above.
And to see that YOU have your own issues right now probably....that he gives not a whit about....so your caring is not reciprocal...perhaps your own depression, anxiety, weight loss, sleep problems etc from having an unfaithful spouse who is treating you like an inanimate object or simply unpleasant to be around, and the uncertainties of a life upended.
You can’t do much about HIS stuff....but you can do something about your stuff.
I am so very sorry that you are in this situation and we absolutely get how very confusing it is to unpick the habits, many of them quite normal, that comes from a long marriage.

There’s a lot of debate at times on HS about NC.
Imho I don’t think I have seen a story where NC helps them ‘see’ anything like you mention at all.

You decide on what kind of contact - about what, how much, style - because of what is best for YOU (and your kids if that is relevant) not bc you are trying to influence or punish someone else.
And there is a spectrum from lots to none....complete NC is relatively rare imho other than for those of us whose spouses vanish and want none, or in cases of extreme emotional or physical abuse when the LBS is concerned about their safety. So, you may find it helpful to worry less about ‘going NC’ - pretty impossible with a live in and if you share kids - and more about how to begin to emotionally detach from the impact of what your h says, does or what you think his issues are and focus on what you need to feel just a little bit better in yourself? And please don’t feel bad....we all go through stages of finding this hard and confusing, learning by trial and error tbh. Jmo.

What kind of interaction do you have with him currently?
And how do you feel about it? Or how useful or not is it? What is your honest objective in those interactions and how often do you achieve it? How high is the cost to your own wellbeing?

Start small perhaps by trying to use a bit of a ‘detached observers eye’ on your own behaviour and reactions....this might help you to see some ways in which you can adapt your behaviour and expectations to fit the current realities?

So, for instance, if I think about myself post BD, my biggest struggle was to accept that my then h simply did not care....about a whole bunch of things, big and small. I kept feeling shocked by that and kept behaving as if he did/should....when an objective POV would say that, for whatever reason, the reality was he behaved consistently like someone who just didn’t  ::)....so we were on different pages and I kept feeling hurt and shocked until I changed my expectation to the exact opposite! In fact, I think I remember literally having to repeat to myself ‘he does not care’ lol until I got the message  :)....gosh, it was a long list lol, a dying cat, stolen money, my cancer, selling a house, my mothers dementia, death threats, possessions......but when I did, MY behaviour changed and I got hurt and confused much less. Actually I think I remember being shocked by a couple of random events when he did seem to care (a bit) as that by then seemed rather peculiar and I cared less if he cared or not if that makes sense  ::)

Fwiw I found Acceptance....with a capital A....of the observable factual reality of what was happening around me helped much more than anything to do with using a speculative lens on my h. I know how people behave when they value and respect other humans, when they care about the consequences of their actions on others, when they can be trusted to tell the truth as they see it, when their responses are rational and make sense in a given situation even in difficult situations....this was not it. I may not ever entirely understand why my xh behaved as he did....but accepting that it was actually happening was a useful first step in figuring out what was necessary for me to adapt to the reality of it including all the bits I had no control over at all.  :) And deciding that I refused to be responsible for anything that I did not know about or got no say in  :) Again, jmo.
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 11:55:54 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Love and insanity
#11: June 25, 2021, 04:35:33 AM
Thank you for the response Treasur-

We are NC as of a week. Last conversation we had I realize I ask and talk all about him. He never asks me anything. After a 2 hour conversation I said do you have anything you need from me or want to know. He said No. I said we have talked for 2 hours about you and you have nothing your curious about to ask me? He said that normally I tell him what I am up to. I said still? Not one thing?
At that point I realized what am I getting from this? He wants to be friends, but it is one sided. I feel like his mother and dr. I am talking to him about the OW and his depression and work. I told him he fired me from that job. He is seeing someone else ( who he refuses to talk to beyond surface level or as he said I answer with the least I can get away with) I told him I initiate calls not him.

He said that he doesn’t feel it is fair for him to call because he left , but that he just tries to hang on until I call. He says that he knows usually within 2 weeks I will, so he just tries to hand on and he doesn't know how he will do if he doesnt get my calls. He said I ask all the questions he needs to be asked and he reflects on them when he gets off.

I told him I wanted to be friends, but I am not getting anything out of the friendship back. That it would be better for me to detach more and move on and we could talk in a fee months when our daughter gets married and see if we are ready to resume a friendship. I feel we still dont know what it is like to not be in each others lives and maybe we need to see what that is like.

I did message him a very nice ( more than generous considering the years of lies and betrayal) message after the call so we could leave it on good terms. It was all about him and the reply I got was all about him.

I called him back and said this is exactly what I am
Saying. You couldn’t come back with anything about ME? It was still about you. This is exactly why we have to break away as it is not healthy for me.

My text message to him

Signing off. Please make sure and go back into therapy. I really want to see you work through everything and be happy and most important I want to see you back, but better. You are an amazing person and you need to get back to you. I'm so proud of all you have accomplished in your life and I know the past 12 years indiscretions are not a true reflection of who your core being is. Thank you for being a voice of reason for me for decades. Prove to yourself and your family that you can rise above this and come out stronger. I know you can. I will be glad to hear from you when it happens. Love and Happiness is what I wish for you. When I am old and grey and sitting on my porch of my beach house come by and have a drink and we will catch up. Thanks for being my best friend for so long. I will truly miss you. I really would not have replaced you for anyone else in the world. Good Bye  💔

His reply

Your kind words I do not deserve, I'm a terrible husband, friend, parent, I don't think I've ever been good at anything, you were just always able to cover , It does hurt to know I failed you again

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 04:37:57 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and insanity
#12: June 25, 2021, 05:16:24 AM
I presume that these conversations and text messages were more than a week ago? (You might want to muse on why you sent/had them....what did you expect/learn/get from them? And no need to share your conclusions here, my friend, unless you find it useful....not at all uncommon that you might find some of your underlying motives, if you are really honest with yourself, may not be quite so shiny or straightforward. )

Which goes to the issue of contact.....we call them relationship talks here and suggest avoiding them bc they are rarely useful for either you or your marriage.....did talking about OW, his depression or his work (again not uncommon) give you anything useful at all? It might have made him feel momentarily better....being listened to is always nice lol....but did it do anything useful for him either or change his behaviour? Probably not. So, if you have some kind of contact, you can choose to not be prepared to get into discussions about certain things. His work? Perhaps. OW? Er, nope....she’s not your ow or friend is she? Not your circus. And helps you stay out of the infamous drama triangle that these folks and ow types seem to like so much  :) The weather? Covid? The news? Things your kids are doing? A broken door in the house? A movie you’ve seen? Maybe....you get to choose. There’s a lot of space between NC and just listening to them talk about themselves......

Your instincts sound pretty good about just how one-sided these interactions are. Again, common experience here. And usefully, once you see that, you can choose how much or how little you are prepared to offer.

His ‘mr sadz’ is pretty textbook too. Sounding as if something just happened or like a big boy did it and ran away lol. And of course he will keep doing what he’s doing until he holds himself responsible for his own actions....that is up to him. I suspect from what you wrote that your h needs and expects some contact from you every so often....not uncommon again.....but it is entirely about HIS needs as you say. Like a comfort blanket of some sort. Again you get to choose if you want to offer that or not.

The tough truth.....and I could have written in the past you wrote, probably did early on...is that he ISN’T entirely an ‘amazing’ person at the moment and 12 years is a long time of ‘not being yourself’. This may not be ALL of who he is, but it is PART of who he is. Same with my former h or others spouses here, sad but true....the behaviour comes from somewhere, even in crisis, and they find it acceptable enough as a way to deal with things to keep doing it. The current reality is actually closer to what he wrote....he IS by normal standards right now a ‘terrible husband, friend, parent’ based on his behaviour. And your xh not your h bc you are now divorced. That’s true. But not enough to change his behaviour as yet....so it matters enough for him to see or even feel sad about but not enough for him to do something different right now. And that may be a very painful reality for you to accept, I’m sorry...... But imho doing so may be necessary for you to detach a little and to let him to figure out if he wants to be a better one of any of those things and act accordingly without anyone else’s help. There is imho something in that old phrase about the truth setting you free in the sense of giving you more options....we just forget to mention how tremendously painful it can be to look at it sometimes.
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« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 06:41:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Love and insanity
#13: June 25, 2021, 08:09:11 AM
Your kind words I do not deserve, I'm a terrible husband, friend, parent, I don't think I've ever been good at anything, you were just always able to cover , It does hurt to know I failed you again

I would get nearly the same response when I would take the time to write thought out, meaningful emails in the beginning.

I just stopped writing. It wasn't worth the effort and I wasn't even sure he was truly reading and digesting.
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Me - 51, xh - 52
Together 26 years - Married 24 at separation
D - 23, S - 20
No BD - gradually moved out into our vacation house starting 8.20

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Re: Love and insanity
#14: June 25, 2021, 08:12:34 AM
Your kind words I do not deserve, I'm a terrible husband, friend, parent, I don't think I've ever been good at anything, you were just always able to cover , It does hurt to know I failed you again

I would get nearly the same response when I would take the time to write thought out, meaningful emails in the beginning.

I just stopped writing. It wasn't worth the effort and I wasn't even sure he was truly reading and digesting.

Tornup you are getting great advice from posters above. Only thing I wanted to add is same of this. I wrote my wife a detailed e-mail in the early days, and she admitted a year later that she had never read it.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love and insanity
#15: June 25, 2021, 08:24:27 AM
Marvin, Kimber, Treasur
I think he is a cover Narcissist with BPD. I think that he runs from his issues and can move and and forget people. He does not have a relationship with his siblings or mother or have any friends. Right now the only person he has is the OW which has and continues to be based on lies. I have been the only person he has ever opened up to and obviously not enough or we would not be here today.

I realize that if he truly wanted to be in my life he would make the effort. Hence the reason I cut off communication. I need distance. There is a part of me trauma bonded to who he was and that man never existed. 30 years is hard to let go of and realize that it was not all real. I totally agree that who he is showing is who he is in weak and stressful life situations and he is not brave enough to work hard enough to get through it and change.

I am a strong person weathering many storms. 2 home fires, home invasion rape, cancer myself, death of my daughter to cancer, parent brutal divorce ( mother cheated) parents death, brother imprisonments due to alcoholism and drugs. My XH knowing all I have endured it does make you wonder how he could hurt me in this manner. The only conclusion is that he just doesn’t care about me.

I’m starting to realize I may have to be ok with being the longest relationship he has ever had and that maybe that was the best he was capable of. Hard to almost be 60 and this is where I am. I am fortunate to be financially secure, in decent shape and still a decent looking lady which is helping  keeping my self esteem up.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and insanity
#16: June 25, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
My XH knowing all I have endured it does make you wonder how he could hurt me in this manner.

I have thought the same.

he only conclusion is that he just doesn’t care about me.


Yes and no. They are broken. Something happens at this point and they fracture. Long held issues that were never dealt with rise to the surface. They can't love anyone in the state they are in.

Also, too, I believe they are going to people who give them the worst advice. I often wonder if any of these men or women receive advice from anyone who tells them to get their sh*t together and get back to their families.

My husband, prior to his crisis, was surrounded by single people who had no frame of reference and nothing to lose in their own lives. How could they possibly dispense wise advice or relate to what he was experiencing? Some had everything to gain ($) by alienating him from his family.

cover Narcissist with BPD

Seems to be a lot of that here. I am fairly certain my H is a fragile narcissist. We had a good thread going about it at one time.

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 09:39:54 AM by Kimber »
Me - 51, xh - 52
Together 26 years - Married 24 at separation
D - 23, S - 20
No BD - gradually moved out into our vacation house starting 8.20

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Love and insanity
#17: June 25, 2021, 09:53:55 AM
Kimber- I had not heard of fragile narcissist, but my XH could definitely be in that category. He lives in his sadness. He has never to this day said A unkind word to me. He did hold in small things through out our lives and decide that was the reason to leave. He never feels good enough !

Although he rose to a very prominant position I do not think without me he could have got there, but in the end resented I worked, cooked, cleaned, paid bills, took care of taxes and family events. I think my strength made him feel weaker. I do know that things that he could have said bothered him when they happened would have changed everything. He is unable to voice in a relationship unhappiness or disappointment. However he is able to voice frustrations with anyone and everything outside of our relationship. He has always seemed to hate everyone, yet to most he seemed sweet and kind.  It is all mind f’ery now that I can look back. It  makes it hard to know what to do. I guess I have decided my best bet for me is to distance and move on like there is no hope. If he came back now there is to much damage. I think it would take years of separation and a concerted effort from
Him to make another try worth it after so many years of him not doing the right thing and the betrayals
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and insanity
#18: June 25, 2021, 10:45:10 AM
Tornup,
I can so relate to your continued efforts to make your husband the man YOU thought he was.  I have done this for a LONG time,  My kids, my friends, to some degree my clergyman, they all see that my H was not nearly the person I thought he was or wanted him to be, even before the MLC.  But then when he was ready to drop the mask of being so diligent and good, he executed his free will and choose to throw his reputation/character/morals-- to the curb and engaged in a lot of distructive behaviors, with a great deal of emotional abuse dished out on the side to both me and our children.  Not horribly mean-- but just enough to let us know that he came first and we should be grateful for whatever attention he paid us.  Many times in my marriage, he would say to me (as ridiculous as it sounds now, 'When you are acting right, we get along fine.")  That of course, meant that I was doing everything he needed to have done, and I was doing it with a 'winsome attitude',  You mentioned covert narcissism, yep, my H is one, or at least that's what my therapist thinks.  He checks all the boxes.  The point is this..... you are worth so much more than the crumbs he throws you (I'm reminding myself of this, as we speak. LOL).  I know you already know this, but sometimes, it's nice to hear. 

With me, it really comes down to this---some deal breakers occurred at the onset of all these behaviors, but the trauma bond or fear of failure on my part kept me dragging this out for years now, because I kept waiting for him to come around and be who I thought he was----when he made it plain he had no desire to do so-----not in words, but actions.  As they tell you here, look at what they do, not what they say.

I do not post much, but I read.... I read the posts of all these new people coming onto this forum every day.  There are so many.  It's mind boggling to me how many people are hurting , CONSTANTLY, because the adults they married have blown up their lives,  betrayed them, rattled their faith in themselves and everyone else...... all because of their inability to voice that they needed help in a more productive manner. I often feel that I was pulled into all this because, well, my H couldn't handle his problems and made them my problems to ease his own pain.  Maybe it isn't a selfish move on many spouses' parts, but for some, it is, in IMO.  Sort of a " I'm hurting, so I need to make sure you are hurting too" kind of thing--- hence the BD and chaos that follows.  In my case, I had spent a lifetime 'fixing' him, so maybe the BD was his way of letting me know I needed to "fix' this for him---because he hasn't really tried to, not in any significant way. Perhaps it's that way for your too, to some degree.  It sounds as he has let you carried the load for a very long time......

The people here on HS offer so much good advice.  It's difficult to give up being a placeholder in your spouse's life, but when you don't, the second guessing and sleepless nights and continued rumination really do a number on you.  One of the best things I learned here is the importance of being kind to yourself, because you are probably not going to ever get support from your exH.  Also, get on the receving end of therapy with a truly committed therapist who specializes in PTSD.   With everything that has happened to you (And I can relate because I have a lot of FOO issues and past trauma as well), that time in therapy is really the most beneficial thing you can do.  And keep yourself busy, really busy,  Walking, gardening, decluttering, all these things have mentally kept me afloat this past year  (Thanks, Treaur... because you have inspired me with your talk of nature, I spent a hour in the garden this morning).  For months after BD, I strugled to sleep, often staying wake all night, ruminating and replaying and  trying to change things I could not change, until I heard my H telling my D how he slept like a baby every night and that was the tipping point for me.  I suppose we all have one........

I hope you find peace, because even though you have gone a week or so without contact, I know it's difficult to function when caring about him and overthinking,  but trying your best not to do so.  If there is any comfort, I guess it should be that the fact that you have stood by him through all this and that speaks volumes about your strength of character.  Just remember, because you do the right thing doesn't mean he ever will.........
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#19: June 25, 2021, 11:44:03 AM
Tuesday- thank you so much for taking the time out for your reply and wisdom. Yes, I find I have issues not going to sleep, but now that most my days I dont let it consume my waking hours once I fall asleep I tend to work it out in my sleep waking up many times in the middle of the night . I think what has helped me so far is looking back at all the res flags and realizing the issue was there he was just able to control it until the death of our daughter and his father 3 months later. 

Besides his inability to communicate I noticed that since he left he is hiking with the OW. Said he always loved it before we got together. I said then in 30 years I would think you would bring that up?  It was pulling teeth to get to know him through the years. When I moved him out in 2018 and went to his apartment I noticed he refolded them all  his jeans to create a crease down the middle and I used to cuff socks together and he took them apart and folded them.  When I asked he said that is how he likes them. Again, never said a word for 30 years. I don't think I would have taken the time to re do them all, but maybe after laundry change it. Either was it was hurtful that I had been “doing it wrong” and he never said a word until he moved out. If he couldnt express that how was I to expect him sharing more important things.

He is 4 years younger at 54, but now that the mask is off and he is trying to put it back on. I feel it will always be slipping and the hiding of the demise of this marriage to the OW who he lies to already will continue to bog down the new relationship. I hate all this most for the family aspect. I am sure that is what we all fight for is our family. I cant imagine wanting volunteering to start over in life in our 50’s . I have often asked him when you look ahead at the holidays and you are sitting at a table of a family that is not yours. They are all telling stories you were not there for and talking about people that you dont know nor will you because they have passed “ how does that make you feel” he said really sad. Yet, they continue .   :( 
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

 

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