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Author Topic: My Story Love & Hate

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My Story Love & Hate
#20: August 14, 2021, 09:44:18 AM
Random thought. If you had still been standing, made more effort to be present for here while she was "staying", welcomed her where you are when she wanted to stop in, would what she is finally doing(going back) be different? Was she looking to see if there was any opening for her to come back, and she saw that there was not?

You'll never know unless she tells you, but it does underscore how interactions with mlcers need to be about what the lbs wants and where they are in their own lives. It appears for you that you have no desire to give her any encouragement on the romantic front and it appears that whatever she thought when she arrived at the house wasn't what she thought it might be, so she changed her mind, as people can do. If there is nothing for her there, why stay?

Sounds like your new place will be great for you.
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When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Re: Love & Hate
#21: August 14, 2021, 11:43:48 AM
OffRoad: great question. I think if someone is actively standing to restore their marriage they may make different decisions. I would suspect they may sometimes overextend themselves, hoping that their being “available” will somehow change something in their MLCers. I will say this: if I had suspected that she was developing some awareness that she was not ok, that she was responsible for her decisions, or in any way was reaching out even for a friend I would have extended more of a hand. But the truth is even if I was actively standing where she is now I would not have really done anything different. Because it was just more of what suited her, she wanted to have a version of her old life back. She wanted us to go to the same places we went, for me to be the “friend” she wants on her terms without her in any way realizing I am person with feelings, needs, and that friendship is a two way street. Essentially she wants to play at being a couple, and I think it is a disservice to all parties to go along with disordered behaviour.

The one thing that I may have not said clearly is that I am in a way standing, but not for my marriage. As I used to say in my old site/thread I meet her where she is. I never tell her anything about her, no truth darts, no help, no “guidance.” When she is friendly I am friendly, when she withdraws I leave her alone. In fact she has been staying at what used to be our home for 3 months while I went from AirBnB to AirBnB because I want her to be somewhere she probably feels is safe. I simply will not distort or contort myself in hope of “fixing” her. My hope is that one day she starts finding her way out of her misery, and that if she ever needs a friend and she is actively trying to heal I will help her any way I can. Which honestly I would assume is a significant portion of what someone would want to do if they were standing to restore their marriage.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love & Hate
#22: August 14, 2021, 02:09:03 PM
Marvin-

She is so lucky to have you. Some of these MLC’rs just have no idea how lucky they are to have such dedication standing for them. Whether it be for friendship or marriage. What we wouldn’t do to have that person. I would love a ME in my back pocket to rely on. Thank you for sharing.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love & Hate
#23: August 14, 2021, 02:28:39 PM
Hi Marvin. I had the same thought/question as OR. Even though ‘they come back broken’ is a rote phrase, it strikes me that there’s likely a lot of truth to be found in it. From the cheap seats as they’re known, it does appear that your W might have been ‘wondering’ about possibilities but not brave enough to expose them to you. It’s absolutely up to you what you do with that possibility. But I do wonder when you say that you’re standing for her as a friend, what would it look like to you if she was ‘ok’ and wanting a friendship with you? Would you expect her to be bold enough to tell you that? To actively move towards you and say those words/show those actions? Again, no judgement, but putting myself in your Ws shoes (as if I really could!) I think I’d be quite terrified of your reaction if I did that and instead would be waiting for you to ‘open the door’ a little and show you’d like the friendship to be closer again before I risked ‘putting myself out there’. I just wonder if your passiveness and leaving it up to her to make those first moves resulted in her deciding a closer friendship wasn’t an option so she’d just withdraw again. Just thoughts. I’ve wanted to comment on the ‘the LBS is not safe’ discussion for a while but can’t quite find the words to explain my views on that so haven’t. Coming out of the woodwork very early here on a Sunday, and on my phone, so apologies if this isn’t terribly coherent. I just think the ‘the LBS holds all the cards and doesn’t feel ‘safe’ for the MLCer’ is likely very true sometimes. I don’t think the LBS should feel offended by that in any way because all it reflects is the ‘power’ they hold over the MLC. Because when you have betrayed and hurt so profoundly someone you love, that persons opinion of you and reactions to you can have huge power over you. That makes the betrayed person potentially very unsafe for the betrayer. I’m sure I’m not explaining myself at all well so will stop rambling now. I completely respect your right to your thoughts/reactions as you obviously know your situation far better than we can through a screen. I enjoy reading about and learning from those thoughts.
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M: 50 (48 @ BD)
H: 53 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 21 (19 @ BD)
D: 19 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 19 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 47) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her. Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her.

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Re: Love & Hate
#24: August 14, 2021, 02:59:02 PM
Evermore I am a huge believer that we should NEVER try to read someone else’s mind or motives. Specially someone who is disordered, like what we call an MLCer. I have shared this in Nas’ thread. They are in a hall of mirrors. They don’t have coherent motives. I think it’s best to deal with them at “face value.” Watch their actions, not their words. I think too many LBSes spend way too much energy “analyzing” and looking fir signs.

I personally believe that until they start taking responsibility for their own unhappiness nothing will begin to change. I personally don’t expect my W to say anything, bold or otherwise. She only needs to start acting. I have read over and over and I also agree that when they truly are trying to reconnect their behaviour will be the indication. She came back to our home for some reason. She actively reached out to spend time together for some reason. I did engage her in both while I was back home, but only to the extent that was congruent with reality and with her actions. Its not reality to think she can show up for a few days here and spend time with me like we did when we were married and we used to be together. I did make it clear I would be happy to go to dinner or lunch while she was here, which is much more realistic. In fact that is quite a gesture of friendship all things considered.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love & Hate
#25: August 15, 2021, 12:40:00 AM
Like you, I have become rather allergic to using my magical mind reading hat  :)
A healthy adult can and should ask for what they want and need. If they can’t or don’t, then they are not a healthy adult or they don’t actually want it that much or they are cycling round an old pattern of trying to get others to pick up their responsibilities or rescue them. It is pretty impossible imho to have a healthy adult relationship with an unhealthy person who is so very self-centred that they can’t do normal adult reciprocity or empathy or own their own stuff.

Do I think that crisis folks flail around? Or do things without clearly thinking about why they do them or even entirely understanding why? Or without considering the effects or consequences? Or throwing spaghetti against the wall to see if it sticks or if someone else might put it in a nice bowl for them? Sure. It’s not a very frontal cortex kind of place is it? Folks in crisis seem to me to be essentially driven by an emotional compulsion to either feel better right now or avoid feeling bad right now. And on it goes until/if they can get their frontal cortex back in action  :) Was/is your w looking for something with her 3 month return to your previously shared home or her drop in suggestion where you are now? Probably. Did she find it or even know what it is? Who knows.....but if she doesn’t articulate that, how on earth could you? And why would one think one should?

That knee jerk LBS reaction to infer x from y is a messy place, isn’t it, and owning our bit of it too? But I think it serves us well to be clear-eyed about the kind of relationship one can actually realistically have with someone in this kind of state....and indeed the disadvantages for you and them of signing up to be the Magical Mind Reading Spaghetti Scooper for someone else’s life and emotions. Tbh now I see it as much more arrogant and disrespectful than I used to do  :) One doesn’t have to judge it or them to be able to evaluate it imho.

New gaff sounds like an adventure, Marvin. With hindsight, I think a lot of us create transitional spaces post BD when we are perhaps one foot in the old life and one foot in a new. Does it betoken a shift in how/where you are planning to live your life in the next chapter? Or mean letting go of anything from the old shared life that might affect your w’s landscape? What do you like about the new place that is different from the old one?
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 12:51:31 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Love & Hate
#26: August 15, 2021, 02:43:30 AM
New gaff sounds like an adventure, Marvin. With hindsight, I think a lot of us create transitional spaces post BD when we are perhaps one foot in the old life and one foot in a new. Does it betoken a shift in how/where you are planning to live your life in the next chapter? Or mean letting go of anything from the old shared life that might affect your w’s landscape? What do you like about the new place that is different from the old one?

Honestly its just a milestone in my life. I accepted that my old life was over a long time ago (probably around 6 months after BD1), and the final "nail" was most likely in 2018 when my wife announced we should go our separate ways. I was already living my life separate from my W, but would engage with her I would say more actively when she did reappear. But after that "decision" on her part I really did let go of viewing her as even a more removed part of my life. So this is a normal progression that has to do with just me, not in any way with her. She is really now just a person I used to know (as the song says).

I always view life as constant change. Not crazy or forced change, but its the nature of life itself. I have always found that trying to resist change is what usually tends to cause us a lot of friction and pain. This is true outside of all things MLC and even when everything is very good. Change is a constant. So this is a part of that ongoing change for me.

The truth is I have been straddling the two "homes" for a few years now, knowing that I enjoy life on this side more, but something was holding me back from tilting over. It was not my W, as I mentioned we were always planning on moving here anyway. It was other personal things, honestly mostly to do with remanent of childhood and early life experiences. As I let those go the decision becomes clearer. And its mostly practicalities, the new place is better suited to me if I am here full time. I will always have a lot of fondness for my old flat because it was my shelter in a time of significant personal transition.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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Love & Hate
#27: August 15, 2021, 12:01:20 PM
Quote
am a huge believer that we should NEVER try to read someone else’s mind or motives.

Another believer here.

If I may add.  My view is that making assumptions about what’s in another’s head can often be about the person doing the assuming. I suggest that those  assumptions do not exist in a vacuum but, rather, they are formed through the lens of your own beliefs, your own longings, your own values, your own attitudes, your own understanding of the world.  When you are aware of this ‘revealing mirror’ aspect of mind reading, I believe it can give you a valuable opportunity to look within and learn more about yourself.

Quote
have read over and over and I also agree that when they truly are trying to reconnect their behaviour will be the indication

Yes!  I think when people are serious about something, they DO, rather than all hat, no cattle. At least, that’s what my life experiences tell me.

Just my view. 😊
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Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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Love & Hate
#28: August 15, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote
am a huge believer that we should NEVER try to read someone else’s mind or motives.

Another believer here.

If I may add.  My view is that making assumptions about what’s in another’s head can often be about the person doing the assuming. I suggest that those  assumptions do not exist in a vacuum but, rather, they are formed through the lens of your own beliefs, your own longings, your own values, your own attitudes, your own understanding of the world.  When you are aware of this ‘revealing mirror’ aspect of mind reading, I believe it can give you a valuable opportunity to look within and learn more about yourself.


👆👆👆 This. Bolded emphasis is mine. Acorn and Marvin, valuable words for everyone and applies to everything in life, not just MLC.
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Love & Hate
#29: August 15, 2021, 12:17:01 PM
Quote
all hat, no cattle.

Acorn, this might be my favourite new phrase
And such a great mental image  :)  :) :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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