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Author Topic: My Story My MLC Wife story -- no kids

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My Story My MLC Wife story -- no kids
OP: July 19, 2021, 09:55:42 AM
I know w had seemed unhappy for quite a while, working from home at the kitchen table every day due to coronavirus. We have a small, 1250 square foot house in the city.

Also she's been drinking wine every night for quite a while-- years actually and it has only escalated in the last year. At least a bottle per night and more on the weekends. She also smokes pot every day and since she's worked from home, that use has escalated due to access. She's 5'11 and weighs 135 pounds.


We don't fight much at all, there is no physical or emotional abuse in the relationship, and so the typical, escalating reasons for a divorce weren't there. W left for Phoenix to stay in an AirBnB to think and work remotely and came back even more resolute about divorce. She's since left several times for days at a time.

The reasons she gave for wanting a divorce were vague: she "loves me but is not in love with me." She "doesn't feel about me the way she should." "I don't love you like a wife should love a husband".

When I finally got out of her specific reasons, they seemed petty. The ever present "I leave my bathroom too messy" and I never showed enough interest in her hiking hobby and "you are on your phone and online too much". All valid but things to work on, not reasons for divorce. She has refused counseling.

She told her friend that she has always done what was expected of her, never things just for her. This is a person who has never denied herself anything. If she wants to break a plan she does it. She's flakey. Maybe she felt internal pressure to become a CPA & thought it was a conservative choice but her family are simple country people and never pressured her. We got married because it made no sense not to! It happened automatically, was barely discussed. It was like "so this is definitely happening!"

Neither of us expected to eventually be married. We were in our late 30s when we tied the knot. To illustrate her "I do what I want" attitude -- once we drank too much wine on Christmas eve and she wanted to skip family Christmas the next day! We are both wild about Christmas and I just said "Are you crazy? No way we are going to do this!". She was angry about having to go and showed her butt the whole time and dank too much wine. This was a mostly out of character move, something she'd do maybe twice a year so I would always excuse stuff like that. It happened but not regularly.

A week later, after another out of town excursion, she had dinner with my best friend's wife, who is her best friend (our lives are quite intertwined. They met due to us. My brother married her other best friend via us). She came home steaming, and really laid into saying she "just married me because it seemed like the thing to do."

She brought up some old dating partner & then said that when I am gone, she will never even think of me, but she will day dream about him. This person is a dating partner who according to her "didn't give a crap about me". An unrequited love situation from almost 12 years ago. They dated about 11 months.

She also later claimed that she was never really, highly attracted to me.

These are accusations with mountains of evidence against them. For one, she was gung ho about marriage. For another, we were the most publicly physical couple almost anyone had seen. Many commented on it and were annoyed by it! She seems to have rewritten the history of the entire relationship now, colored by current "feelings" she's interpreted.

She later days that while sex with me was good in the beginning, it wasn't "to a level I had experienced before".

We have a jar full of wine corks that say things like "best sex day ever". She told me on more than one occasion that I was the best she ever had, spontaneously and on her own accord. I would never ask such things but also a man never forgets having such things said to him either.

She is insistent on divorce. I am pretty devastated! I love my wife, this is quite a shock and I don't even think I believe in divorce!


W has untreated and undiagnosed depression she's been carrying around ever since I've known her. Her mother died when she was 23. She remained away and distant through it to avoid seeing her mother go through it, similar to how she is now "running" here and there to keep from having to face me. This has been going on months and we have had a grand total of 3 conversations about this divorce. She is now moving forward with everything rapid fire like she is trying to break some sort of record.

W is extremely driven and successful as a CPA. I have always been very proud of her. It is insane the amount of bonuses they throw at her -- we've paid off our house.


Yet she still thinks of herself as a failure. She doesn't think she is smart. She thinks I'm the smart one-- I'm a college dropout! This is a person who made all "A's" save for two B's" in ALL of high school and college.



She had a somewhat bad upbringing in a small town. Parents were okay, One of the uncles molested her sister. Her grandfather impregnated his own daughter and a "slow" child was the result of that. She and both of her sisters excelled and got out of that situation. One is a teacher, the other also a CPA. Her father, since mellowed and quite a nice guy now, apparently made her think she was stupid growing up.


She thinks she is going to move to Denver, quit her job after her next bonus and start a new, exciting life in 6 months. She will cut her wine consumption down to a couple of glasses a night for a month, pat herself on the back, read a few self help platitudes, and tell herself that she is working on herself. I know her. She will repeat these same cycles elsewhere with others.


I made excuses for the wine due to her high functionality.

I stopped drinking during the week with her at least 2 years ago. My use was 2-5 beers a night and I was just getting too fat and knew it was bad for me and that I had to stop. I stopped during the week and it carried over to just drinking much less overall even when I do drink. I turned 40 and was just ready to be done with that and to be a good example for her, but I think she took it as me not engaging in one of her hobbies with her!


I get the idea now, knowing her for a while that she is energized by novelty. The new part of our relationship worked for her, the engagement-- also new and exciting. Then the marriage, the first two years were wonderful other than her over drinking. These last two-- my father dies, I get hung up on security and paying things off. She says two years ago is when she first started having these feelings about me. She told me this after I blamed things on Coronavirus.


I feel like she uses novelty like a drug. I joke that she thinks every night should be like a concert. She doesn't know how to cope through boredom.

She can be extremely selfish and is skilled at justifying it. I know depression causes deep reflection and rumination. I'm not sure if it is the cause or the result of her depression.

I suspect MLC because, well in the preceding months she said several times, flippantly "I think I am having MLC" and "Is this all there is?".
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 05:40:08 AM by OldPilot »

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#1: July 19, 2021, 10:28:46 AM
Hello,

So sorry for the reason that you are here, but it is a great place for support. Your wife's actions show a crisis in her thinking and her actions. One thing that sticks out is her negativity not only towards you- but all other aspects of her life, work, home, and her own views of her accomplishments.

So let's get to the nitty gritty. The first thing you need to do is take care of your finances. MLCers can go through money like water over Niagara Falls. You don't want to be in a position where you are left out as she will only think and consider herself and her needs first. Remember, this is all about her and what she wants-nothing about you.

Disregard the things she says and the majority of her actions. The less you focus on her and the more you focus on you and your recovery, the better you will recover from all the trauma you have endured recently.

Take care of yourself, rest, eat, and light to moderate exercise helps. Anything to get your mind and life off of her cycles and issues. You are not going to talk, rationalize, love, cry or beg her to "get better" or go through the tunnel. This takes a lot of time and is a marathon, not a sprint. So go slow and be about your mental and physical well being.

Keep posting and read as many of the articles that you can regarding MLC on the site.

Best to you and please be good to yourself,

((((Ready))))
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My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#2: July 19, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Bomb drop was Feb. 19th so this "process" has been going on a while now.

I read a lot of forums, and watched YouTubes, some good, some bad. Some more academic, some from male "attraction experts" who say it is all about lost attraction & everything else is periphery.

Anyway, I started working out. Every day. I've lost 25 pounds, and look and feel good. I have a history of panic/anxiety and depression but I have none of that right now due to learned coping over the years, going through stuff and coming out the other side, and just remaining healthy. I am upset about the divorce but not depressed.

Next Wednesday we go to court to finalize everything. She acted as if she was attempting to break the all time divorce record or something, rushing through this. We signed an MDA agreement in March.

I purposely left out some stuff that I will now add to see if you guys suspected affair without it. Suffice to say, now you will really be beating the affair drum.

W has a male friend we have had dinner with over the years she has known since college who has dated two of her friends. In fact when we were dating, the first time I went to her house he was there with a group of people. They have been friends for 20 years. Never any romantic involvement.

This man, who we will call Roy, is a compulsive liar. Major things or just stupid things. He will tell you he went to McDonalds when he really went to Burger King.

A few years ago he dated a ballerina in town, much younger than he is. He lied about his job, was living in her midtown apartment here in the South (keeping it generic as to avoid personal details) for free, and then moved in w her parents in New York City (they are apparently rich) to attend some chefs school.

Long story short he wasn't attending the school, just living it up in NYC living in a wing of her parents mansion. They eventually found out, and all his lies unraveled. He moved from the South out west out of embarrassment.

He did the exact same thing with someone out west, but he impregnated her. We found a blog she wrote about meeting a "wonderful man" and thought "haha little does she know!". Wife and I always made fun of him and shared news stories about sociopaths who fool women and would say "Oh look it's just like Roy!".

Well you compartmentalize people. W reasons she knows the real him. They have been friends for a long time. So we would still occasionally have dinner with him. I was annoyed by him--she was too but-

Anyway fast forward to early Feb, Roy had move to another state out west after fleeing his latest failed romantic con job (the one I mentioned earlier that resulted in a child).

W was getting beat up by coronavirus quarantine and working from home everyday. I could see it. Our loves were somewhat built around our trips, and those were out for most of the year. In Feb she said she was going to stay at an Air BnB out west were Roy lives to relax and unwind for the weekend and he was going to come by on Saturday and show her these hiking trails in the desert.

I didn't love the idea at all but this guy is a guy she has been friends with for 20 years. I DO have platonic female friends I would never hook up with. It's probably best to just let her do it, I thought.

She comes back Sunday, her flight was delayed 3 times. She seemed weird to me. We went to a neighbors Super Bowl party and she loosened up a bit. I knew she had been depressed anyway so her behavior had an explanation.

The next week we have a snow day and Roy is in town. He does come to down because he has two other daughters in the south. He gets snowed in and stays the night with us which annoys the crap out of me.

At some point in the night W gets wine drunk and it seems like she is trying to get me to go to bed so she can hang out with him! This pisses me off however they are old friends. They next day she says she knows I don't want to sit up and listen to their college talk, I seemed annoyed and that's why she suggested that.

At one point I went to another room and came back and it look like she was leaning over him hugging him. It was quick, I couldn't tell. But it didn't make much sense. If you are having an affair, you hide it. You don't bring your affair partner into your home with your spouse. I always knew my wife as a moral person.

5 days later bomb drop she wants a divorce. The next day we were suppose to talk but she texts and says she has decided to get away to think and we will re convene and discuss when she gets back. Her destination? Out West where Roy lives!

She says it is because she just stayed there, needed somewhere to stay with 12 hours notice, and that same place had an immediate opening.

She comes back even more resolute wanting divorce and then a few days later that's when she brings up some old 12 years prior dating partner and tries to savage our physical lives in comparison to theirs despite all the mountains of evidence -- even physical evidence in the house, to the contrary.

All this seems suspicious in the least BUT Roy is an old friend. He is someone she would hang out with through this. He is a morally compromised person who would be in no position to judge her. She was avoiding family and friends for weeks and months because she didn't want to answer to anyone and was just talking and hanging with Roy and one other female friend.

I do have two female friends who, if this happened I might hang out with regularly and it would look suspicious to others but I would not be hooking up with them.

WELL then a month or so later a black SUV is parked on the street for about a week. A neighbor gets curious about it. I come outside. Another neighbor says "W's Friend parked it there." another says "I saw your W get in an uber with the man who drives this car.

So I try to get in the car w a coat hanger. The plates were of a state W had mentioned moving to at the beginning of the year after she gets her next bonus. I could have tracked the vehicle by the VIN number but there was a card over the VIN spot in the dash. I finally called a locksmith and lo and behold, it was Roy's car.

I text wife that "you two sociopaths' deserve each other". She says I am "crazy". Later says Roy called to see how she was doing through this and she was eating out east and he was going to a city near there too to work & wanted to ride with her as far as he could.

Thing is, he does some kind of job involving internet towers. I know the company. They do have a hub in the city he was headed to.

So there is plausible deniability is all of this. Every step. So it is very difficult to confirm.
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My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#3: July 19, 2021, 12:34:45 PM
Hi Pendragon,
 
And so sorry you are going through all this. 

Ready pretty much highlighted the essentials.  Make sure you are protected financially, physically and mentally - lot of crazy stuff can happen, and this is a really long process regardless of what happens to your marriage.

I would give you two pieces if 'extra' advice.

One, keep your eyeballs on you and you only.  It will  not just speed up your own recovery, but also makes sure you are not creating any unnecessary trauma by learning things which are no longer none of your business. Of course if you enjoy sticking a fork into your brains and creating additional painful memories then feel free to watch her fall. Affair or not - are you sure you want to discover?

Second ... There will be plenty of healthy and unhealthy negative emotions that you will go through. Dont let the unhealthy ones, like anger or resentment consume you. There is an old proverb that holding resentment (or any unhealthy negative emotion) is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. The path of LBS is not do much about saving marriage (as it involves two persons that are mentally stable and healthy - which of course cannot happen in middle of crisis), but about saving you from falling even further into personal crisis of your own.

Alvin.
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At time of BD.... Me: 43, XW: 41
Kids: G19,G18,G14,G12,S5
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years

BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."), Mar 2020
D filed May 2020, D finalized Dec 2020
I have moved on, and am in new relationship.

Lessons from Stoicism and REBT helped me to exit the chaos zone and become a better person. 

"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. - Epictetus"

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My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#4: July 19, 2021, 02:56:25 PM
Pendragon- my X asked for a divorce in November. Totaly blindsided me. I filed and did the divorce in 30 days and it was finalized feb 10. I did it quick because he agreed to my terms. One thing I knew for sure was  1. He was not thinking straight 2. Can’t make someone stay who doesn’t want to 3. Although he denied I knew their was an OW ( he was way to anxious to get it done)

Protect yourself financially. You have no idea where his head is at. There is no reasoning and no rationalization. It is a huge brain fog for them and you. I agree with everyone you just focus on you and what you need to move forward. Maybe he will come out of this and maybe he wont. You win either way when you focus on you.

Take walks to clear your head and read !!!! The more you learn the more you understand.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#5: July 20, 2021, 12:40:13 AM
Hi Pendragon,

I am so sorry you find yourself in this place. FWIW your story is very familiar and unfortunately many here can share and understand what you are going through/ I can tell you a lot of what you wrote played out with my wife with minor variances. The most amazing thing is no matter where they start once this fracture hits so many of their patterns are the same.

You are already getting great advice from Ready and Alvin. Maybe right now you are still looking mostly to understand and for hope to try to “fix” this. We all have been there. But they are both very right. As counter intuitive as it may seem put the focus on you, protect your finances (more on this later), try to accept that your wife is in a place where she can not be reached. People sometimes say ‘she is on her own journey,’ to me its more like she is experiencing a significant psychological event and she has completely detached from you (and most likely others). Sounds like she has done what most do and has found an object to put all her attention on and has placed her ideas of a perfect new life there. Nothing you say or do will alter this, as hard as it may be to accept. You can read all the stories of people who have tried and failed.

One thing that was important for me and may help you. DO NOT allow her rewriting of all history to alter your memory and what you know to be true. It is a form of gaslighting how they rewrite history and sounds SO convincing. My wife went from I love you to “I love you but am not in love with you” to “I never loved you” which seems to be a very common path. There are many studies that show a depressed mind can only remember negative emotions and will suppress positive ones. That alone may explain how as they sink into depression they lose access to all the good things and in doing so slowly reframe their entire lives (and relationships) to the bad parts. Which probably explains why we here so many small negative daily details of a relationship used as “proof” how they were miserable.

Like most of us you will understand more and more over time, hopefully find your footing, and detach and put the focus on you. But for now do what you need to take care of you, vent, share. But protect yourself and keep turning the focus away from her and onto you. Its a tough thing to accept, but there is no longer an “us,” only you and her, and your interests are now highly diverged.

Hang in there. It will get better.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#6: July 20, 2021, 04:42:03 AM
Hi Pendragon (I was going to say Arthur but the reference might be lost),

Welcome to the party that no one EVER wanted an invitation to....

In addition to what Ready, Alvin and Marvin have already pointed out about getting your finances locked down, you are likely going to be confronted with the fact that your STBXW had an affair. The evidence is there for the most part except catching them in flagranti but the fact remains that STBXW and "Roy" have some sort of thing, be it Emotional (EA) or PA (Physical) lurking about in the shadows. If it isn't "Roy" it is likely someone else... but the AD (Affair Down) is a symptom of her crisis. It is a bandaid to cover over the well of darkness that she can't fill herself because she has never learned how..... so she fills it with external validation... which works,.. for a while... until it doesn't anymore...

I am assuming that, if you have already signed the MSA and the D is coming, you have already gotten legal advice so I assume also that your financial situation has been managed. just as long as whatever STBXW chooses to do now does not come back to haunt you later in terms of debt or other issues. She wants the single life, fine. She can have it with ALL that it entails, car insurance, health insurance, rent/mortgage, the whole thing. You have been fired form the position of spouse and partner so, from here on out, it's just business.

There is NOTHING you can do to change the course of her crisis - NOTHING!  You have a better chance of running out in front of a tornado, stand there, wave your arms at it and scream at it to go somewhere else and actually having that happen. Like Marvin said, her revisionist history is NOT your history. Cherish the good parts that were real, make peace with the bad parts that were just as real.  It is not a zero-sum game where one wins and one looses, depending on who's history you choose to believe. It is YOUR life and YOUR history, not hers, and especially while she is in Bat-Snot-Crazy revisionist mode.....

There are a couple of links in my tagline for "Newbies" that lead to other resources here that you might find helpful as you detach your emotions from her rollercoaster and start to get back on your feet.

UM
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 04:43:53 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#7: July 20, 2021, 05:41:45 AM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#8: July 20, 2021, 08:50:22 AM
Thanks everyone. I did post this on another board about a month or so ago and I have been reading about MLC since March so I do know some of this but keep posting as if I am new just in case. Knowledge is power.

Of course from March to about June I was "all in" on trying to save the relationship and attempting to "save my wife from herself".

The divorce was made official on June 30th.

When she finally brought up reasons for wanting a divorce I was also "all in" about fixing them and took responsibility. It was like, I had so much respect for her as a person, I took what she said seriously. Turns out, her complaints were legitimate, sure -- in the sense that no relationship or no human person is without flaws. It took me a while to realize that the issues WEREN'T "the issue" if you get my drift. Ultimately, they were petty in terms of reasons for divorce. At the time I still thought I was dealing with a rational human being.

THE issue is MLC and possible (probable?) affair? It is so frustrating in knowing so much more  about what is happening with my ex wife than she knows, wanting to reach out and help. Seeing the train wreck-- KNOWING beyond any shadow of a doubt, that she WILL hit a rock bottom that will put all this to shame-- yet still being unable to do anything. It's similar to attempting to help an addict but worse I think. I actually think an addict is easier to reach.

The wholesale transformation of personality is a site to behold. If my wife is having an affair, she is just simply BALD FACED lying to me and all her friends and I sort of think that is what is going on.

She is trying to reach each friend and "control the narrative" with them and is angry that, when I have talked with people I have told them the 100% truth. Even about things my wife has said about herself.

She herself claims she has an alcohol problem and needs therapy so she pays lip service to that stuff but when I tell others I am concerned about her alcohol and that she needs treatment for her long standing depression issues she gets angry and yells "stop telling people I am a crazy alcoholic!".

It certainly does help a bit that the guy is a loser and a cheap conman. It lends evidence to her mental state that she be involved with him at all.

In fact, even if there is no affair, and there is still some real, legitimate plausible deniability here, the fact that he is the company she is keeping at this point has to be because he's so morally compromised himself, he makes for a good buddy during this. He can't and won't judge her.

I don't even have the sort of pang one might expect out of this. If she was messing around with some tall, dark, handsome go-getter, professional type with charisma I might feel inadequate, but this guy is a clown. It's more like "okay, if that's what you want, you do you."

From the perspective of a feminist, which she claims to be, it's interesting she is spending time with someone who has not just lied to woman, but proactively and maliciously misrepresented himself to them and damaged them as a result. He literally twice was forced to move across the country in embarrassment when his lies were discovered in each relationship.


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#9: July 20, 2021, 12:40:46 PM
Hello,

Quote
The wholesale transformation of personality is a site to behold.

Instead of thinking of transformation, think of disintegration of identity. The desire to try not just one mask, but many. When you add to the mix alcohol and other drugs, the loss of self becomes more pronounced.

Quote
The divorce was made official on June 30th.

I am so sorry to hear that. Divorce is a traumatic event and I hope you take the time to heal and recover. Regardless of your outcome, there is a lot of emotions, feelings, and memories to sort out and process. It is going to take some time and take this time to work on you.

Quote
I actually think an addict is easier to reach.

You may be right. Most addicts do acknowledge that they are addicted, they just state they can't stop. Your MLCer comes from a mindset that everything feels right so it must be so.

Quote
She is trying to reach each friend and "control the narrative" with them and is angry that, when I have talked with people I have told them the 100% truth. Even about things my wife has said about herself.

So true with my own situation. Of course her explanations were off the wall and my friends asked me for clarification. Then she would get upset that I spoke to them. Of course she could tell them anything she wanted.

As far as the OM goes, you hit the nail on the head that with him, there are no judgments. She can drink and do drugs without any guilt. The other aspect is that as a scammer, he knows his victim and tells her what she wants to hear. Probably together paint a picture of you as the ultimate "bad" guy.

Just remember whether the relationship last one day or ten years, the length of the relationship doesn't make it a healthy one.

So let them do their thing or whatever and you continue to work out, get healthy, and live for you. Now, you stated that you were all in to save the marriage from March till June. Now that the divorce is final, are you still all in?

Even if you are done, almost done, somewhat standing, or standing strong; we are here to support your journey to becoming whole and complete. I used to think that only reconciliation was a success and I was so wrong. Read the threads and you will find that there are many success stories as we recovered and reclaimed ourselves. That we focused on understanding our own flaws and weaknesses and how to address them. We found bliss within our own souls and moved forward. So many stories to read of people suffering tremendous pain and loss, yet they find a way (some very creative) to make it happen and complete their journey.

Feel free to vent, post the highs and the lows of your journey, and just know that this is your story- your truth to be shared.

Have a fantastic day,

((((Ready))))
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#10: July 20, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
Following along. I have nothing additional in terms of wisdom, but what resonates with me in the excellent advice you have gotten so far is that it’s not a transformation, but rather a disintegration of identity. Transformation is often what we do in response (albeit sometimes after a period of disintegration) - it’s constructive, productive, based on growth and learning and healing. In crisis, their identity disintegrates and they become destructive, trying on different identities and letting themselves be guided by their emotions, which are inherently somewhat volatile and subject to change, but even more so in an identity crisis. And the more they destroy, the more uncertainty and pain and shame surrounds them, and the more they feel the urge to run further and try on a new mask. Where they find solace or excitement or external validation, they settle in for a while, but the fractures at the heart of it all remain. It’s fueled by depression… well, in many ways it IS depression, but it’s even deeper than that, I think.

I wish you strength and peace and healing as you move forward from this. In some ways, it might be the hardest thing you have to work through, but there is great potential for growth and strengthening during this time.
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#11: July 20, 2021, 09:58:15 PM
I got vaccinated in April, not sure if she did. She's stayed away from the home 90+% of the time through this since Feb.

She took her nephew on a graduation trip several weeks ago, and asked if I could remain away Sunday & Monday so they could spend time together, and of course I said I would.

Tuesday I came to the house at lunch, and noticed she was not working that day at her desk, and she was in "Street clothes", so I surmised that she took some extra vacation time after the trip. She won't usually speak to me so I have to deduce things. I decided to give her the rest of the week alone at the house. So I stayed at Mom's.

The MDA agreement we signed said we would cohabitate through this. I had been trying to come up with a way to open in-person dialogue when we are both home together, which is the only way I feel any progress can be made.

She wants to come home from her frequent hiatuses and have me stay away for weeks at a time. She wants to call all the shots. I told her I would work with her here and there but I am not staying away for weeks from our home. At this point I have been abandoned, emotionally abused, and now she wants to tell me where to live and stay, even disregarding the MDA agreement her lawyer typed up.

I came home Friday night, and went to bed in the guest bedroom where I've been sleeping through this. She texted me something to the effect of "how long is it going to take for you to move out. Do I need to give you your money early to get you out of here?".

I thought "Gosh. This is so silly. I have spent every day for 7 years with this person and now she is texting me from another room in our small house?"

So I decided to go to her bedroom door, and I opened it and said "Let's talk".

All hell broke loose. She jumped out of be and immediately started screaming and pushing me. I put my hands to my side robotically & said "I am not touching you. I am not touching you", and just kept backing up. She slammed the door and the smoke alarm fell down from the ceiling. She threatened to call the police & I said that's fine by me. I hadn't done anything.

The most heart breaking thing was seeing her attempt to concoct a story that I pushed her and that I threw something at her. I could see the moral confliction on her face as she tried to rationalize it. She called the police, they showed up, and I told them exactly what happened.

She was made to leave the house.
.
So at this point she's left me to hang out with a con man, tried to savage me and our physically life (despite clear evidence to the contrary) by bringing up some bald dentist from 12 years ago, and finally, she's called the cops on me.

Formally, this was a rational, loving person. It's wild!
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#12: July 21, 2021, 12:05:21 AM
I had been trying to come up with a way to open in-person dialogue when we are both home together, which is the only way I feel any progress can be made.

Progress on what? And how? At least I cannot see the dots, so please open up bit more on this ...


So I decided to go to her bedroom door, and I opened it and said "Let's talk".

Did you knock?  Seriously.... Pretty much everything you have learned about regular manners, contact etc during relationship do not apply anymore.

But you did well by setting a boundary. It's your home too....  It's hard to leave emotional side apart on things like living in your own home, but try to focus on what is really necessary for practical life/living to improve.  For example I did 'ask' XW to move her stuff (mountains of clothing) out of our master bedroom and turned it into 'man cave/ oasis of my own healing' while we tried to 'co-exist'.  Small thing, big effect.


Formally, this was a rational, loving person. It's wild!

I never thought my XW of 20yrs would physically violate me in front of our kids. But so she did.... Like you wrote, it's Wild.

Keep eyeballs on you and how you can improve your life,and you will do well. 

Take care,
Alvin
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:46:26 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
At time of BD.... Me: 43, XW: 41
Kids: G19,G18,G14,G12,S5
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years

BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."), Mar 2020
D filed May 2020, D finalized Dec 2020
I have moved on, and am in new relationship.

Lessons from Stoicism and REBT helped me to exit the chaos zone and become a better person. 

"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. - Epictetus"

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#13: July 21, 2021, 02:33:27 AM
First and foremost, you are no longer dealing with your "wife." You are dealing with a Body Snatcher, a Bug in an Edgar Suit, who has NO qualms about trying to hurt you any which way she can, which you just witnessed.

You have the MDA which is a legally binding document. What is in there about selling the house or her buying you out? THAT is all that matters at this point. She does NOT get to call the shots here, as much as she would like to do so...

But, for the record, YOU need to make sure that your rear end is covered. If she is going to the police and making up stories, you need to make sure your side is as water tight as a ducks rear end in order to not end up on the wrong side of the law. Go back through Watcher's old threads for a good example on how the Bat-Snot-Crazy can get WAY out of hand...

Depending on how your MDA is written and her continuing actions, you may need to consider getting a restraining order or something to make sure that you and your part of the financial assets are protected, especially if she is going off on drug/alcohol-fuled rampages...

And trying to engage her is about as useful as standing outside in front of an oncoming tornado, waving your arms and screaming at it in hopes that it will just magically go away. In her view, you, as the LBS, are 1st cousin to Satan and the source of all the problems she has ever had in her entire life....
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#14: July 22, 2021, 12:21:33 PM
Quote
Did you knock?  Seriously.... Pretty much everything you have learned about regular manners, contact etc during relationship do not apply anymore.

Yeah, I did. In retrospect I probably should have texted her "meet me in the living room so that we can discuss this." but even as is, I did nothing wrong. The police could tell who the rational one was. The smoke alarm detector she claimed I threw it here was still in the exact footprint of where it fell, straight down from the ceiling after she slammed the door. 


Quote
I never thought my XW of 20yrs would physically violate me in front of our kids. But so she did.... Like you wrote, it's Wild.


Thanks man. This is really difficult to wrap my mind around.

the last thing she texted me was "If I ever was conflicted about this, your behaviour during this cemented this for me!"

Guys I got to tell you. My Behavior? She abandoned me, emotionally abused me, probably had an affair on me including bringing her affair partner in our home, in my face -- she called the police on me in an attempt to frame me.

My behaviour? I guess I did sound angry and bewildered in a lot of my texts!
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 12:26:16 PM by Pendragon »

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#15: July 22, 2021, 03:26:15 PM
Read up on Projection. I never knew anything about it until I met XH's mother (she would say someone else had an issue with something, when she was the one with the issue or try to convince the kids that they were upset about something when she was upset about something. It was shocking to me.), so when XH started it, I could see it for what it was.

You handled that well, but do be careful. That could just as easily gone the other way depending on who answers the complaint. At least you now have that one documented that she was the one who needed to leave. That is a plus.
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#16: July 22, 2021, 10:25:18 PM
My behaviour? I guess I did sound angry and bewildered in a lot of my texts!

Please do remember that what each and everyone of us perceives is just a reflection of our inner world.

In psychology there is a story/test of three guys walking on dark alley.  Suddenly a dog appears out of dark.  One guy is terrified by the beast, another sees a cute little puppy, third does not care a damn.... Same event, different realities.

All in all written communication is most risky/subject to distortions as all you see/hear is your inner narrator voice reading the messages. If your inner narrator is broken, then things get twisted and malicious.

Possibly more important than what your W did/does is how do you feel within now.  If you close your eyes for minute or two, and listen to your thoughts for a while, how do you perceive it?  Is there a thundering storm of thoughts, serene peace, void of silence, or something else.... And is it how you would like to feel?  The funny side of perceived reality is that we can always alter it by modifying our own thoughts (but often times, especially with mental health conditions, our concious part is not aware of whats happening unless you intervene yourself mindfully).

Take care of yourself,
Alvin.
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:27:22 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
At time of BD.... Me: 43, XW: 41
Kids: G19,G18,G14,G12,S5
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years

BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."), Mar 2020
D filed May 2020, D finalized Dec 2020
I have moved on, and am in new relationship.

Lessons from Stoicism and REBT helped me to exit the chaos zone and become a better person. 

"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. - Epictetus"

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#17: July 23, 2021, 08:54:47 AM
My behaviour? I guess I did sound angry and bewildered in a lot of my texts!

Please do remember that what each and everyone of us perceives is just a reflection of our inner world.

In psychology there is a story/test of three guys walking on dark alley.  Suddenly a dog appears out of dark.  One guy is terrified by the beast, another sees a cute little puppy, third does not care a damn.... Same event, different realities.

All in all written communication is most risky/subject to distortions as all you see/hear is your inner narrator voice reading the messages. If your inner narrator is broken, then things get twisted and malicious.

Possibly more important than what your W did/does is how do you feel within now.  If you close your eyes for minute or two, and listen to your thoughts for a while, how do you perceive it?  Is there a thundering storm of thoughts, serene peace, void of silence, or something else.... And is it how you would like to feel?  The funny side of perceived reality is that we can always alter it by modifying our own thoughts (but often times, especially with mental health conditions, our concious part is not aware of whats happening unless you intervene yourself mindfully).

Take care of yourself,
Alvin.

A lot of my communication is simply me just parroting back to her things that she said to me, pointing out the logical inconsistencies & stark implications of the wild, often hateful & hurtful things she is saying.

But some of it is me directly quoting her-- and I guess when she reads it she gets to see how wild, crazy, sometimes hateful and occasionally EVIL all of it is.

So if she hates reading the things she's said, that should be telling to her

But she seems to be almost in a childlike state. Nothing matters except that what I am saying or to writing her makes her feel bad. Doesn't matter if it is true, or logical-- it's like "I do not like reading thing I will no longer respond to this you are being wild and crazy."

It's like a murderer at the witness stand: The prosecutor says "So then you slowly slid the sword into the victim's throat" and the murderer says "Look, you saying what I did makes me feel bad so STOP please!"  :o :o :o :o

I totally resonate with the rest of what you said. I am employing skills from stoicism, mindfulness/Buddhism, CBT therapy and Jesus-Centric Christian teachings to try to get through all of this.
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 08:58:02 AM by Pendragon »

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#18: July 23, 2021, 09:05:01 AM
Hey Pendragon  :)

Reading thru your thread..... oh boy, yup we all know what this is like (terrible).

So Feb 19th was BD? Then she's probably still in the descent phase. Not much of anything you can do during this time except to remove yourself as a target and the scapegoat. I'm sure you are already getting the hang of this (and it's not easy). She will gobble up all the time and space you can provide and I would apply it liberally.  :D

Quick question: During this time they are often spoiling for a fight. Is she seeking you out for conflict? Or just lashing out if/when you approach?

-SS
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#19: July 23, 2021, 01:12:25 PM
Hey Pendragon  :)

Reading thru your thread..... oh boy, yup we all know what this is like (terrible).

So Feb 19th was BD? Then she's probably still in the descent phase. Not much of anything you can do during this time except to remove yourself as a target and the scapegoat. I'm sure you are already getting the hang of this (and it's not easy). She will gobble up all the time and space you can provide and I would apply it liberally.  :D

Quick question: During this time they are often spoiling for a fight. Is she seeking you out for conflict? Or just lashing out if/when you approach?

-SS

She was mostly just staying away and not wanting to communicate at all. But when she does and I reach out it went from "I am sorry, I don't deserve your kindness" to "This is half your fault, it takes two to get here, you should have known (read my mind) I wasn't happy. You did X back in 2015."

The "X" she keeps harping on is this. She went to a gym and asked if I would be interested in going. I said "No thanks. I do need to get more exercise but I like to exercise on my own. I am sorry I just don't want to go to your gym."

A week or so later she's like "I got you a present!" it was free personal training passes to her gym for so many sessions.

I was like "So you asked me if I wanted to attend your gym, I said I explicitly did not, and now you've purchased me free passes so I have to attend?"

It didn't start a big fight-- we really never fought much, but I think she had her feelings hurt. To me, it was pretty cut and dried. Seemed messed up to try to force someone to attend your gym after they said they don't want to!

Well she brought this up as a major point of contention during the divorce.
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#20: July 23, 2021, 02:51:34 PM
Hi Pendragon,

Ah that makes sense.

Very quick divorce. I'm sorry.

Just a quick thought.... it is very normal for them to go thru stages of doubt..... heck, even stages where they try (briefly) to reverse. They are at war with themselves (and they lose in the beginning).

I know this is VERY early, but what is your objective? Do you have hope that it can be healed later, or have you had enough (or just not sure one way or the other?). I ask because what happens here (present), has an effect there (later).
It's totally understandable to not want to go to the gym with her now that you are divorced. Oh yeah..... doesn't makes sense at all for a rational person right? Except she isn't rational. Why would she do this? Impossible to know...... but she could be trying to say sorry in a strange way. Could be wanting to take another look. Could be trying to justify, something. The point is, depending on what you want, there are different way of approaching and looking at things...... acts of kindness in the beginning are often manipulative and self-serving but opportunities to display that you aren't the character they create in their mind does need to be dispelled if possible. This often creates conflict, but if you can get thru that, it creates doubt for them (and they are rife with doubt). Anyway, it just comes down to what you want at this point. The only person who can hold it together here is you (if you want), it only takes one to hold.
On the affair...... some can hide it, and most (if not close to all) lie about it. I had the same issue and problem, at first. It's such an easy thing to fixate on, and damaging. I would suggest that here, in the beginning....... it's best not to know. At the same time, it's also best to assume that it has happened or is happening. That way you are prepared to some extent (there is no total preparation) and at the same time you are not tormented with as many details as you would think about otherwise. If it turns out one day that there wasn't as affair..... that will just be a pleasant surprise.

I soooo feel for ya. I remember those days vividly. The good news is that one day, all of this will pass, one way or another. It doesn't last forever, and you have a wonderful opportunity for growth, maturing, strength and wisdom that "normal" people will never know....... if it's not squandered. You found a great place full of amazing people with so much compassion and experience. 

Journal, journal, journal.....

-SS
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#21: July 23, 2021, 02:59:29 PM
No no the gym thing was from 2015.

She brought up that situation as a reason for divorce recently and relayed the anecdote to all her friends.
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#22: July 26, 2021, 11:21:38 AM
Is there a scientific/rational explanation as to why MLCers have the "shark eyes" thing?

So totally weird. I noticed it on my own, clearly, then later while reading about MLC it came up again and again.

You don't as an LBS want to do the thing that horoscope readers do which is a sort of conformation bias-- calculating the hits and ignoring the misses when it comes to MLC evidence, but the shark eyes thing sort of sealed it for me.
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#23: July 26, 2021, 11:28:54 AM
It is most likely an indication of strong disassociation. Usually this is from very strong internal pain or confusion and it’s a protective mechanism. Another indication is complete lack of empathy or registering of other people’s emotions, a form of situational narcissism.
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Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#24: July 27, 2021, 09:17:54 AM
I am not sure if I mentioned this prior as I copied my first two posts from another forum.

After the first couple of weeks of my wife's abandonment she came home for a discussion after having dinner with her best friend to discuss with her that she planned to divorce me. This is her best friend who married my best friend. Also my brother married one of her other best friend's so our friend groups are tightly knit.

She comes home, and that is when she tells me that being physical with me "makes me want to gag".

Then she mentions some old dating partner by name. "James". I didn't even know who this guy was. She says that she was more attracted to him and that yes sex with me was good but not on that level.

Now first off, we are sitting there and we have a mason jar full of dated wine corks that say things like "best sex day ever" with the date on them. Also I remember specific incidences when she told me, with no prompting from me (I would never ask such a thing), that sex with me is the best she ever had in the most spontaneous & seemingly genuine way.

So we literally have physical evidence against what she is saying IN the house right beside us as she savaged our physical life.

Never, ever was this a question before. And listen I am a fairly mature man. My sex is my sex. I don't ask them or insist on them telling me that I am "the best" or this or that. You do the best you know how and communicate with your partner, and that's it. It is not something I stay up at night worried about.

But when I say she was enthusiastic and proactive that I was the greatest and blah blah-- I can only tell you guys what she said on multiple occasions unprompted. Maybe she was just being nice but it sure seemed genuine.

I guess now the wholesale excuse for everything in our relationship is "I was faking" happiness. For 7 years. I GUESS it's possible but if so then she has some sort of weird personality disorder I didn't know about.

This is a person who was never before shallow. She was always modest about sex and didn't talk too much about it except to tell me that I am the greatest. Sex was important to her but it was pretty down the list. I was the one w the higher drive and of course like MOST relationships the frequency went down to like once a week in years 5 and 6 of the relationship.

So I find out this man she is bragging on -- first off the sex crap isn't even the most hurtful thing she said. She looked at me and said that she would think of this man and wonder how he is doing, but when I am gone she won't even think of me.

Imagine-- my wife and I hardly ever fought. It was a very loving, kind relationship. We treaded lightly on each other's feelings. Here she is telling me my value to her is ZERO.

Then I find out this man was someone she dated, over TEN years ago. A dentist. And not that this matters but-- objectively less attractive than me-- I had imagined some tall, handsome bad ass. No. Just a regular guy.--Bald--horseshoe headed. He looks like the villain in Billy Madison. But the big thing is he broke it off with her. In her words "He didn't give a "*****" about me. 

So it was almost like she is attempting to make me feel the pain of that breakup from years ago and how it made her feel. And it wasn't even one of her major, long tenured relationships. They dated for 11 months, that was it. Also it seems to me, and I do not know for sure-- but it sure SEEMS like the major issue here is that she was rejected. She didn't get to control the narrative and the course of the relationship. I doubt that she would have even have thought of him in the same way if she had been the one to break it off a year later. But she lost this one so it sticks in her craw.

Later she kept saying I should have known this (divorce) was coming. "We weren't being intimate as much anymore."

Virtually every long tenured couple I know deals with a lessening in the frequency of sex, and not just the ones with kids. Always seems par for the course and it was still once a week-- I know some couples who have gone months and years. So it wasn't some huge red flag. Plus she was stressed.

Anyway, this brought up old wounds for me. Old insecurities that I thought I was over for 20 years but what she is saying just doesn't check out.

I also think that her bringing up this old dating partner is a red herring and maybe has to do with her current possible affair partner.

But when she is saying all this, it was so out of left field-- I didn't even get angry. I was stoic. She might as well have said she was a 18 foot tall oak tree. She has to know this crap doesn't check out right? She knows I was there, right? She knows we have tokens of our sex life, that SHE proactively made, all over the house right? And like I said I am not even super hung up on having to be the #1 greatest sex guy ever-- It's more an issue on her reversing course and saying crap that contradicts long held narratives. The rewriting.

So later she texts me and doubles down. She was "never really that attracted to me". I seemed like a great guy and I thought she was great and smart and awesome and she did not feel this way about herself. And my family was great to her.

Again-- I have old emails indicating very high level of attraction. I was there. We were stuck to each other-- a big time PDA couple. Other people noticed and commented. One of her best friend, for YEARS would comment on our physical closeness, telling us she had never seen anything like it as far as how we were with each other. She'd say it pretty much ever time we saw her over the years, which was often.

But to hear her tell it now

-she was never highly attracted to me
-sex was just okay
-I am boring
-Never had a lot in common

It's like, okay those seem like reasons to break up after a couple of months of dating

But she dated me for years, then married me and was enthusiastic throughout. 

Does she actually believe all this crap?
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« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 09:29:21 AM by Pendragon »

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#25: July 27, 2021, 09:37:00 AM
no, i don't think so. i think they want to believe it...grasping at things to alleviate their guilt.. searching for some kind of justification.. but, that doesn't make it true..
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#26: July 27, 2021, 10:10:45 AM
Though I’m not completely sure it matters whether they actually believe this hurtful stuff they spew, I think that on some level, they actually do. If they are in some sort of an affair, whether emotional or physical, and they are in limerence, their brains under the influence of these “found my soulmate” hormones actually do rewrite history. As I have read it, some of them when they come out of limerence are in disbelief that they ever said such hurtful things to their spouses.

My spouse was in a limerent emotional affair that didn’t last long. She told me later that it didn’t work out and that they couldn’t even be friends because her affair partner was “too borderline.” It’s gotten me thinking a lot about personality disorders in MLCers. I know there have been discussions here about borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, in particular, in MLCers and often in their affair partners. I’m not sure how often it’s true, but certainly some of those traits seem to be present - certainly in crisis, and maybe to some extent when I think back on my pre-MLC spouse. Certainly not to the extent that I would make that diagnosis even if I were qualified to do so, but there are elements that strike me as just… not quite the capacity for healthy interdependent attachment that we should all be aiming for. As to whether it was always there - probably in some of them it was, or a version of it was there and it was worsened by some event or series of events. For some of them, they will recover and truly achieve healing, as we have seen in some reconciliation stories. For some, they will get better but still have some shortcomings in how they relate to a spouse or partner - and sometimes it’s something that can be worked through but sometimes the LBS is no longer willing to settle for this fragile attachment to a fragile person.

I’m not sure any of that is helpful - it’s a result of my endless rumination as a non-expert, just someone who is muddling through all of this in the best way I can. But just know you’re not alone in these thoughts and concerns.
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#27: July 27, 2021, 01:20:34 PM
It’s gotten me thinking a lot about personality disorders in MLCers. I know there have been discussions here about borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, in particular, in MLCers and often in their affair partners. I’m not sure how often it’s true, but certainly some of those traits seem to be present - certainly in crisis, and maybe to some extent when I think back on my pre-MLC spouse. Certainly not to the extent that I would make that diagnosis even if I were qualified to do so, but there are elements that strike me as just… not quite the capacity for healthy interdependent attachment that we should all be aiming for. As to whether it was always there - probably in some of them it was, or a version of it was there and it was worsened by some event or series of events. For some of them, they will recover and truly achieve healing, as we have seen in some reconciliation stories. For some, they will get better but still have some shortcomings in how they relate to a spouse or partner - and sometimes it’s something that can be worked through but sometimes the LBS is no longer willing to settle for this fragile attachment to a fragile person.

I’m not sure any of that is helpful - it’s a result of my endless rumination as a non-expert, just someone who is muddling through all of this in the best way I can. But just know you’re not alone in these thoughts and concerns.

I have the exact same thoughts and I struggle with them. What I DON'T want to do is fall in the same trap of "rewriting history" as they do, and repaint swaths of our time together through cherry picked post hoc evidence.

Still there does seem to be enough there where by a pattern can be established, when I look back.

I think that probably, most of our spouses do test on the spectrum for certain personality disorders that they likely were able to keep at bay. "Mild" cases, if you will-- but it is a combination of depression/mood disorders & an accumulation of unresolved issues and traumas, and certain specific signifying events at mid life that completely unlock that aspect of them. They "break" and go "all in" so to speak.

I just keep thinking about how my wife told her friend how she did everything for herself for so long, she was tired of "always doing what is expected of me".

At first, I could empathize with this. I do love my wife and respect her views-- or I DID! But then I REALLY thought about it. WHAT exactly was it that she did only because she was expected to? Becoming a CPA--MAYBE.

Marrying me? Absolutely not. Neither of us had been married nor did we think we ever would be. It was mutually, and enthusiastically decided that we were "each other's person" and that it made no sense NOT to get married. It was all just very natural and easy.

This person smoked pot anytime she pleased. She also got drunk any day of the week she wanted to. She went on any trip she wanted to go on, with or without me. I didn't put much if any limits on her.

So, her saying that, to me I have started to interpret it as meaning that the pressure of being a responsible, and more importantly MORAL adult with obligations towards other people is too much for her to handle. She has given in to the side of her who owes NOTHING to other persons-- only to herself.

This may sound silly but it really is a Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader situation. She's gone ALL IN towards the "dark side" with it's morally relativistic justifications and flimsy rationalizations and for the first few months I was left saying "There is still good in you! I know it's in there somewhere!".

Now I'm left to simply accept that she IS Darth Vader only with blonde hair flopping out of her helmet.
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« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 01:28:03 PM by Pendragon »

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#28: July 27, 2021, 02:37:58 PM
So, my take on it is this. I have experienced and read the "I haven't loved you for a YEAR....5 years....10 years....longer than I have actually known you years....forEVER!!!'" Changes from day to day, week to week month to month. They rewrite this to justify their actions. They say these things to MAKE  you hate them so YOU  will leave and they can be the aggrieved party (See how bad you were, you left).  It's all smoke and mirrors for them. The only way they can justify what they do.

As to her doing what was expected of her, are you telling me she grew up in a family who expected nothing of her? (unusual, but possible). If so, she then might never have had expectations of herself. Rudderless, going along until she ran into something that seemed like it might be ok. That is also a recipe for disaster.

We all have baggage. Some of us have lightweight backpacks, some cumbersome duffle bags, some huge steamer trunks. Sometimes a same small issue is carried by each person differently, like something small enough for a backpack is carried around in a steamer trunk. If someone insults me, I reflect on it, if its not valid then i toss it and don't carry it. Someone else would latch onto that insult like it's the gospel and add it to their steamer trunk. You cannot really know what is in your Ws baggage unless she has told you everything that has ever happened in her life (nope, she didn't --I can nearly guarantee that).

Does she believe what she is saying? Maybe. Right now, because it is convenient. It doesn't matter what she believes. What matters is what YOU believe. I had 23 mostly good years. My XH  does not get to take those away from me with his random memory glitches. Those are MINE I experienced them, they were GOOD. If he was having a crappy time and forgot to mention it to me, that's his issue.

You didn't break her, no matter what she says. You cannot fix her, or convince her that her rewrites are bogus. You only get to control you.

It's beyond frustrating when they say things that are patently untrue. Live your life so that whomever you know that they tell the lies to will not believe them, know that your good memories are real. You aren't insane.

The above is MOO. Your mileage may vary.
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« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:42:12 PM by OffRoad »
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#29: July 27, 2021, 02:49:37 PM
So, my take on it is this. I have experienced and read the "I haven't loved you for a YEAR....5 years....10 years....longer than I have actually known you years....forEVER!!!'"

This is so funny. I said the same thing.

When she said she had been having these feelings for the past year I mentioned Coronavirus and how literally no one has been happy for the past year.

Then she says, "well it has been going on for TWO years."

That's when she brought up this Joshua Tree trip from a couple of years ago-- I could go into detail but she absolutely showed her BUTT. My BFF and her BFF agreed. Hell SHE agreed shortly thereafter and I chalked it up to a bad weekend. Now she is saying she "was googling divorce back in Joshua Tree".

THEN she started talking about how she only married me for -- she really couldn't say-- she could only express how little I ACUALLY did it for her. You know, people often go around just marrying and faking good times with people they really don't like all that much nor are they attracted to.

It's weirdly more of an indictment and insult to themselves if true, more so than to us. It's like they are saying they are vapid idiots who spend vast amounts of intimate time with partners they *actually never liked all that much. 

So I then said the same thing you expressed. "OH TELL ME MORE! Was it 2 years or 4 YEARS or 6 years that you've hated me?! Did you dislike me before we even met! How about before your birth? Was it a previous lifetime in another corporeal form in which you realized I was explicitly NOT the one for you?"   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good God the $h!te they say is so unfathomably stupid.
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#30: July 27, 2021, 03:05:54 PM
So I then said the same thing you expressed. "OH TELL ME MORE! Was it 2 years or 4 YEARS or 6 years that you've hated me?! Did you dislike me before we even met! How about before your birth? Was it a previous lifetime in another corporeal form in which you realized I was explicitly NOT the one for you?"   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good God the $h!te they say is so unfathomably stupid.
;D Thank you, you gave me my laugh for the day. I know it's not yet funny to you, but I hope it will be some day.
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#31: July 29, 2021, 05:08:14 AM
Quote
If he was having a crappy time and forgot to mention it to me, that's his issue.

This!! The harboring of pain is owned by the one who decided to make you their mind reader. Adults relay their discontent and use communication. We can not be responsible for what we don’t know. That has been a eye opener!! 

Fixed the quote to add the end quote marker - UM
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 05:10:11 AM by UrsaMajor »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#32: July 29, 2021, 05:46:38 AM
Please don’t let the BS in, it can cause some love no term damage, Pendragon, so helpful that you can see the ridiculousness  :)
As a grown up, I suspect you know your big flaws and failings.....none of us are perfect after all.
But it is always worth considering the source imho  :)
If a not very rational and not very adult adult says horrible things and blames you for things either you never knew about or had no control over? Well, it serves them in three ways usually....justifies their behaviour in their own mind, distracts you from the really important stuff and baits you into some kind of fight that serves them but not you.

If your w, or my h, were in fact miserable for decades married to someone they never really loved? Well, that means they wasted their life, doesn’t it? Their problem not ours  ::) Whereas we didn’t do that.....even if they are no longer the person we happily married
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#33: July 29, 2021, 05:55:51 AM
As far as the "It's been your fault for 2 weeks/4 months/5 years/6 decades, since before you were born" nonsense goes, I am going to steal a question from XYZ...

"If you REALLY hate eating liver and onions and always have hated it, would you REALLY spend 12/15/20/30/however many years you were married eating liver and onions every single day?"

Probably not...
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#34: July 31, 2021, 12:26:38 PM
I am unfortunately ruminating on everything that has happened today. I did have a few drinks last night and got poor sleep.

The striking thing here is the proactive cruelty she displayed throughout this. It is really hard to wrap my mind around.

I would have never expected this from my wife in a million years.
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#35: August 02, 2021, 07:32:12 AM
I would have never expected this from my wife in a million years.

That is because you are not dealing with your "wife." or the person formerly known as "wife." You are being confronted with


The Alien....

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#36: August 05, 2021, 11:19:28 AM
So I am trying to close on a townhouse on the 9th and the mortgage company wants proof of all the funds IN my account.

I have 55K coming from ex-w from my portion of the house value and equity.

But a regular check takes 7 days to show which would push us way past closing. Wiring would work but she says she is only allowed to wire 10K per week according to her bank. My credit union says that is hogwash.

A cashier's check would work and would allow them to show the funds right away so she agreed but took two days to get it.

Now she wants me to come over and get it after work. She said she has some other things I forgot, my Dad's guitar, my passport and she is giving me some plates and silverware.

Why is she being nice? Why does she want to see me in person? I don't want to see this person. This person is not my wife.

I bet she plans to put a smiley, happy face on this to placate herself and if she receives nice treatment back from me she will feel that all is well.

All is not well. She doesn't get to abandon me, emotionally abuse me, cheat on my (very likely) with a compulsive liar/cheap con -- including bringing him in the house in my face, call the cops on me/try to frame me -- and then just act nice on the way out and have this all be okay.

It's not okay. I'm not okay.

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#37: August 05, 2021, 11:32:08 AM
It's not okay. I'm not okay.

I am so sorry that she is still making things hard (at least initially). You are probably exactly right, she wants to “make it ok” or wants something. And you are absolutely right that none of this is okay. That is in fact an understatement of all time. As you know it is so much worse when this happens from someone who we knew at one point, trusted at one point, and loved.

You may not be okay, but as it is said often a day will come when you will be. Right now it must be so difficult. Its still ongoing, you are still having to deal with it. As much as you can try not to care what her motives are, what she wants. If it helps remind yourself only thing that matters is how you feel, what you want. And that you have a much better grasp of the reality of the situation than her made up and distorted versions.

Are you good now to close on the townhouse? How do you feel about that?
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#38: August 05, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Well, let me clarify.

She and I, and our relationship (which is over) is not okay. It never will be. I am not sure it every can be outside of real, genuine repentance by her which will have to include actual remorse. Not just "yes I did this, I know it was wrong please forgive me even though I'd do it all over again".

I am mostly okay and have been for a while. I went from sedentary, to exercising every day, lost 25-30 pounds, gained muscle, and look and feel much better.

At this point in my life, I am best equipped to deal with something like this having gone through my own mental health and existential crisis in my 20s that went into my 30s, and the death of my father a couple of years ago.

So I don't break down or get super emotional for the most part especially outside of the first couple of weeks although I do get angry.

I just accept.

I know I am not in Auschwitz. People go through this stuff and much worse.

I am so skilled with CBT and stoic principals that my therapist thinks I am not "experiencing the emotions" because, I guess I have trouble in therapy of putting emotion words to this and instead I intellectualize everything. To me, it is just good coping. 

So the one thing I am sort of proud of is I feel like I handled this better than could be expected. Many folks have commented that they would be in worse shape for whatever that's worth. I dunno I guess I EXPECT bad things to happen in life so I am always sort of emotionally prepared a little.

But that doesn't change the fact that this still SUCKS, what was done to me was foul, borderline evil (especially in specific instances) and morally wrong.

It's strange being in a place like this. I want, and TRIED to take a big share of the responsibility. I know I am flawed too, so I must have some share, I thought. So I will do X, Y and Z.  I've had to come to grips with the FACT that, yes I am imperfect. No, almost none of this is my doing.
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#39: August 05, 2021, 12:58:08 PM
Wow you sound really good, and thanks for clarifying. It is great that you have had so many tools to deal with this. And I think I and almost everyone here would agree with what you said below:

But that doesn't change the fact that this still SUCKS, what was done to me was foul, borderline evil (especially in instances) and morally wrong.

It's strange being in a place like this. I want, and TRIED to take a big share of the responsibility. I know I am flawed too, so I must have some share, I thought. So I will do X, Y and Z.  I've had to come to grips with the FACT that, yes I am imperfect. No, almost none of this is my doing.
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#40: August 05, 2021, 01:37:27 PM
Wow you sound really good, and thanks for clarifying. It is great that you have had so many tools to deal with this. And I think I and almost everyone here would agree with what you said below:

But that doesn't change the fact that this still SUCKS, what was done to me was foul, borderline evil (especially in instances) and morally wrong.

It's strange being in a place like this. I want, and TRIED to take a big share of the responsibility. I know I am flawed too, so I must have some share, I thought. So I will do X, Y and Z.  I've had to come to grips with the FACT that, yes I am imperfect. No, almost none of this is my doing.

Re-read what I wrote. I didn't mean to sounds so arrogant!

One thing that always kept me from getting TOO spun out, is that the things she said were so weird, wild and oftentimes verifiably untrue that it was difficult to take them seriously. Now on one hand that makes things difficult since there is no reasoning with a person who is, from some perspective, out of her mind, but on the other side of the coin, when you know there is nothing really to be done, and it isn't your fault -- that can help.

Of course that didn't stop me from trying the first few months. Even now I am thinking of writing a terse email after I get my money-- but at least on some level you realize, it's all out of your hands.
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#41: August 05, 2021, 09:30:23 PM
I hope you get your money soon.  It should have been on your terms and sent to you so that if you wanted, you did not have to see your MLCer.

I took all the blame for a long time.  I finally realized that our marriage had a couple lights burned out and MLCer opted to burn the place down instead.
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#42: August 06, 2021, 12:51:12 AM
Pendragon,

I'm going to suggest that, while writing a "terse email" after you get your money may offer a short-term "feel good", I'd like to question your motive for doing so.

Do you think it will cause her to regret her actions (FAIL!)
Will she feel some sort of remorse (FAIL!)
Will it give you the "last word?"(Probably not but maybe)

I'd like to suggest maybe writing it but not to actually send it. Get the emotions out on paper (not as an e-mail) and then sit ion it a couple of days and then burn it. Offer it to the universe with all the negativity attached so as to unburden your soul.

There is very little likelihood of it even making a dent in the armor of the fog that Mid-Lifers seem to wrap around themselves. You have already witnessed the revision of history and the verifiable lies. This would be just another justification (in her mind) of why she is doing the right thing...
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#43: August 06, 2021, 09:10:18 AM
This is the email I want to send


At some point everyone knew. Everyone knew the timeline-- who you had been spending time with. To any outside objective observer, it would seem clear. Anyone outside our friends group would say "well there's your issue, right there. It's obvious."

But none of the people who know you & know us would even consider it in the beginning. Including me.

Have you thought about why that is?

One reason is that everyone has-- had at least-- a great deal of respect for you as a solid, moral human being. A married professional. A "good person".

The other reason is that people have the exact opposite view of your "friend". He is a compulsive liar; a cheap, sad con. A person without morals, or even feelings, who drained much younger, overly-trusting women's bank accounts, lied about who he was and what he does, and once his ploys were discovered-- was forced to move thousands of miles away in utter disgrace. 

Those other women-- girls really-- were innocent victims. They met someone new who presented himself in a certain way, and had no reason to not believe him. Everyone has to take a leap of faith when they meet someone new. No one expects lies and schemes of this sort to happen to them.

What kind of imbecile could know this about a person-- to know of his utterly despicable behaviour, and to still enter into some sort of relationship with him? It seems similar, though on levels of magnitudes lower of course, like those women who wrote Ted Bundy when he was on death row. Who seeks out verifiable human garbage to spend intimate time with?

Everyone thought so highly of you and he is so disdained that we no more suspected you of having sex with the nieghborhood labrador retriever than with R. I wonder how that feels? To be so trusted by others that they would not even consider that you entered into a union so heinous despite the evidence?

Think about that. Think about what you have done to everyone's trust. Think about how much you have debased and shamed yourself. This person? The person you used to make fun of. A person you called "a sociopath" and "compulsive liar" on many occasions. A person who annoyed you when he would show up unannounced. A person you disdained for not seeing his children.

Yet through this you yammered on and on about my failings. My faults. All while having an affair with the biggest loser, the most morally compromised, personality disorder-ridden person we know? Utterly astounding A! I guess I should have hiked more and oh was my bathroom ever dirty.

Your flight wasn't delayed in Phoenix in February. You just chose the latest flight back. 

You brought this man into our marital home and attempted to get me to go to bed so that you could "spend time" with him while I was in another room.

That is evil. Pure evil. I would like you to read that again, A. What you did was EVIL.

"I feel so safe in that truck with R in the snow."

He rented a 4x2 rear wheel drive pickup truck-- notoriously TERRIBLE in the snow. That's why he could barely get it out of the driveway. R is an undercover idiot who fools stupid people into thinking he is intelligent.

I can only surmise certain things out of this. Is this how low you think of yourself?

Well the jig is up. Everyone knows now. Because of this, nothing will ever be the same for you. You are at the beginning of this, not the end, A. You aren't fooling everyone. You will not be able to make this right. Things will not ever go back to normal for you.

I wonder if you realize that your girlfriends talk about this at group events whenever you walk away?

I guess this is why you "only talked with M about this." I guess you told her the truth from the beginning. I bet it is so exciting, right? To have a travel affair with a skank compulsive lying conman. Really took you out of your depression, right?

Is this a marriage exit affair or has this dunce convinced you, a formerly intelligent person, of his story? Is this why you planned to move to Colorado? With him? Are these the glimpses of truth you let out between your lies? Is it Phoenix now? Who else knows and is hiding this?

You can't hide from the truth, because  the truth is all there is.

I know that you have trauma, and long standing mood disorder/mental health issues (that you refuse to get properly treated other than initiating these cheap "cover" changes) and my heart goes out to you for a lot of the stuff that is out of your control that shaped some of this.

But you are also an intelligent adult and these are your chosen decisions.

This has been unconscionable.

I was abandoned.

I was emotionally abused.

I was cheated on, brazenly, in my face.

Debased.

Dehumanized.

Discarded like trash.

This has all been so utterly, oftentimes proactively CRUEL

90% of what you've said and written to me seems to be pure projection.

I was made to feel the hurt you felt over a decade ago during some dating breakup. It's like you wanted me to feel YOUR pain from that for some reason.

"I really loved firetrucking a bald dentist and he didn't even like me and I will think about him and won't even give a thought to you when this is over with."

How can that be viewed as anything less than monstrous, A?

How can any of this be seen as anything less than monstrous?

You need this. You need to read this. You avoid any criticism of yourself at all costs.

I am not just piling on to "make you feel bad."

You need to face up to what you have done. The clarity of it.

If you face it. Repent of it. Admit wrong doing. Regret it. There can be forgiveness.

The other scenario is that you further descend into darkness as you make cheap justifications and rationalizations for the inhuman and unconscionable things that you have done through this.

Then you leave the world of consensus, objective morality for a personal, self-serving false morality of your own creation. There is no salvation and forgiveness in that state.

I'm heartbroken over what has become of you.

I've come to terms with the fact that I did not break you, and I cannot, and could not fix you.

God help you, A.


Offroad: changed names to letters
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 08:26:26 PM by OffRoad »

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#44: August 06, 2021, 11:04:43 AM
I hope that posting it here helps, Pendragon.

I would advise you to do two things fwiw.
Consider quietly what you are trying to achieve with a letter like this. And for whom? Figuring that out may be more useful for your healing than sending the letter.
We do get it. Many of us have felt the same need. Some of us have even sent the letter lol. Part of the experience of being an LBS is a feeling of being unheard, a feeling of deep injustice perhaps, a feeling of being silenced or of being powerless. Nothing wrong with how you feel....but you do have a range of options in what you do with those feelings. And some will probably serve you better than others once you figure out what the itch is you are trying to scratch.

I would also encourage you not to send it.
Why?
Well, two reasons.

The first is right now you are spitting into the wind bc your w/xw does not currently care what you think or feel. Her values and priorities are simply not the same as yours. That may change but right now that is how it is. It is a waste of virtual ink.

The second is, if you believe that she is in crisis and this was not who she always was, provoking big shame rarely brings out the best behaviour in anyone. If you want to stand, or even to allow the possibility of some kind of shared healing or closure at some future point, there may be a time to say these things in a more calm and factual way. A kinder and more useful way perhaps..... might this letter make her feel bad? Perhaps. Bad enough to change her behaviour? Unlikely. If you received a letter like this, would you? Or would you blameshift and justify and pretzel yourself to avoid really taking the criticism into your heart? Being shamed tends to provoke fight/flight responses in most humans I think. The kind of shame that produces remorse and real behaviour change tends to build with time and consequences. And your w/xw is creating a future life for herself that will bring plenty of not so nice consequences, that’s as clear to us as it is to you. But, like a horse to water, you can’t make her feel that until/if she learns from her own experience, can you?

But it all circles back to what you are trying to achieve, for whom and why....
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 11:16:57 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#45: August 06, 2021, 11:23:31 AM
I get the letter writing.  I wrote several. I burned most of them in a bonfire.  My, was that cathartic. 

Do you think the letter might be a good gauge of where you are at, even though the words are mostly about her ‘crimes’?  That’s how it was for me so, I’m wondering if you feel the same way.

I wonder what you might learn  if you treated the letter as a diagnostic tool for yourself.   
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Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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#46: August 06, 2021, 11:28:36 AM
I have written a lot of things and processed a lot of hurt, anger, and fear here and in my journal… and it helped me immensely. Writing it down may have even helped me more than talking to supportive friends did. What I did find was that venting my anger, hurt, fear, or disgust to my MLCer only rarely provided any satisfaction, the satisfaction it did provide was short-lived, and more often than not I would feel worse after venting to her.

I think it is essential for you to process your anger in whatever way you feel will help you. So if you are writing this down to help you, that’s great. If posting it here helps you, that’s great too. If sending it to her is something that you genuinely help you, go for it. But if any of this is about getting through to her… it’s unlikely to be successful given where she is in this process. She is going to do what she feels she needs to do, and she is going to justify it in her own mind regardless of what you say to her.

This is an excruciating situation to navigate, and I wish you continued strength as you work through it. Your responses to the situation and to her words and actions are all valid and you of course have every right to feel how you feel and to do what you need to do. I hope you will prioritize things that will help you heal.
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#47: August 06, 2021, 11:49:50 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

I know she still feels something, some regret, remorse etc. She was crying a lot and looked emotionally and physically bad when we had to sign the MDA papers back in April. I could tell she was spent. Now this could all be just sadness for how she's disrupting HER life and no sort of feelings about me-- I don't know.

But it seems to me-- she's been running and avoiding this entire time. She hasn't FACED any truth. She let a lot of time pass and now is try to poke her head back in to her life, except this time without me. Trying to get some normalcy back.

I feel like she feels like she can just sort of SNEAK back. If she is staying with OM, she will do something like let a few months pass and say "Oh we just got closer after my divorce. I never cheated on my H" and think people will buy it.

Either that or it was just an exit affair and she thinks she can just deny her way out of it.

I do think there is some value in shocking her into reality and out of her fantasy world that these tactics she is employing, to get her life back will not and cannot work. People are wise to all this. Her friends are nice to her face, as I explained, and are like "WTF is that what is really going on" behind her back.

I think she is content to just have the appearances "look" normal. But I want her to know, we know. I know. People know. This will not work.

Like I said, you can't hide from the truth because the truth is all there is.

Maybe I am falling into the trap of being the LBS that thinks my MLCer is a bit different. I dunno.

But everything I wrote is 100% the truth so I don't feel bad or naughty about it.

I get what you guys are saying from a tactical perspective completely but I hate that we have to strategically treat our MLCer like a child-- even less like a child than a sort of severely autistic or mentally handicapped person with whom normal reason doesn't and CAN'T work because they are incapable of understanding-- so certain behavioral "tricks" have to be employed.

They are not handicapped. They are adult human beings. I get it but I hate we have to treat them with kid gloves. It's like "be super nice to your abuser and don't tell them the truth or have a completely appropriate and proper reaction, because it won't do any good!"
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 12:12:21 PM by Pendragon »

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#48: August 06, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
I support your choices to address the situation in whatever way you feel is right for you and for your MLCer, I’ll start with that. I wouldn’t say to treat them as a child or with kid gloves or anything like that; I would say to treat them in exactly the way that you feel will help you to move forward with your life in the way you want. That might mean anger or truth darts, it might mean kindness and understanding, it might mean just pulling back and just leaving her to her journey (chaotic though it may be). Ultimately, she is going to have to figure out her own path - nobody can convince or cajole her into anything lasting. And as long as she can be convinced or cajoled or influenced by someone else, she’s not in a healthy enough place to be participating in true, reciprocal relationships. That includes any influence you might be able to offer - no matter how good your motivations are, she has to decide for herself what values she wants to live by and what she wants her life to look like, and she has to deal with the consequences of that.

I don’t know how much sense this makes and I am certainly not trying to convince you to do or not do anything. Just offering some perspective from an over thinker.
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#49: August 06, 2021, 12:42:47 PM
To clarify, Pendragon, I am not a believer in either treating MLCers like helpless infants or in playing pretty with people who abuse me. I am a believer in accepting the realities that come with dealing with profoundly disordered folks or addicts who see the world differently and my own self care responsibility to step further away from people who find it acceptable to hurt or devalue me for whatever reason.

Any ‘tactical perspective’ in my post was not about your wife at all; it was about how you heal and what is healthiest for you. I suspect from what you post that you are a very logical man who is also very angry and bewildered that normal logic does not seem to apply in this situation. And just as Curiosity said, we will support your right to choose how you want to do what you think is best for you.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 01:11:12 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#50: August 06, 2021, 12:58:44 PM
I do think there is some value in shocking her into reality and out of her fantasy world that these tactics she is employing, to get her life back will not and cannot work. People are wise to all this. Her friends are nice to her face, as I explained, and are like "WTF is that what is really going on" behind her back.

First I will echo what others have said, this is your life, your choice and you should do what you think is best for you. And then please realize you will also live with the consequences of that decision, whichever way it is, for a long time. So please balance the moment with the longer term view.

And I will say the following that someone once pointed out to me and it really helped me: what gives you the right to decide for her what she needs? I do not mean this in any attacking way, rather simply as a statement. You yourself said she is not a child, she is an adult. Adult’s have the right to act and do what they want. Yes they will live with the consequences. But unless she has asked you to “shock her” out of anything isn’t it encroaching on the boundaries of another adult?

In addition you are hoping something will change with this letter. You also have expectations. In my opinion neither of these ever work out well. There is a difference between holding your own boundaries and deciding for yourself, its another to decide what someone else needs.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#51: August 06, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
You all make valid points. It's about doing things that might be effective, not kowtowing to the MLCer. I get that. There's a valid distinction there.

Still, I do feel that she hasn't had any real accountability in this. She's got a lot of money. She's just traveled and lived a whimsical existence through this. Somebody has to give her a dose of truth and she isn't getting that from anyone, she is literally living a fantasy.

Someone has to tell the truth here out of principal no matter how it's taken by her-- I can't help how she responds.

I won't send anything for a while, and when I do I will probably take out some of the rhetoric here, but I will probably send something to her. 

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#52: August 06, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
I'm only going to say two things:

Say what you need to say, when you need to say it. But do it for YOU, because you need to express your truth, not to try and "get through" to her. That's a fools errand.

And the other thing is the email was, imo, overly long, rather random, and not clear in what I think you wanted to say. That she didn't fool anyone, that you know she cheated, that the guy she cheated with isn't all she seems to think he is, and BTW her loss.

I have found that my opportunity for my truth always came when I least expected it. No planning, no long emails, just simple truths in normal exchanges.

And yes, her loss.
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#53: August 06, 2021, 08:06:44 PM
Pendragon, I would advise you to change the names or use nicknames if those are their real names in the letter.  It's good to keep some anonymity here, although, I think, if my MLCer ever came across my thread, even without names, it would be pretty clear that it was me.  Still, it's good to keep proper names out of the discussions here, where multiple guests can view these posts without ever logging in.
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Survival Instructions for Newbies

The Apology Every LBS Deserves

My Journey

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

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#54: August 09, 2021, 09:28:10 AM
I am not able to edit the thing because the edit function on the post has expired.

Yes, it is rambling and unfocused. I just wrote it stream-of-consciousness on my Gmail and pasted it here instead of sending the thing.

Today I close on my townhouse, so yay!

Trying to balance out being happy for my good fortune, and looking on the bright side vs. thinking "I shouldn't have to be doing this."
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#55: August 09, 2021, 09:42:39 AM
Congrats on closing on your townhouse, P, that's great. I hope you enjoy this moment and have fun creating your new space and making it your own.

As far as the need to send her "something," I would say keep moving forward and focusing on yourself eventually you'll likely find that you don't even want to send her anything because doing so won't change anything.

A moderator can probably edit your previous post for you.
Best of luck with the new home!
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#56: August 09, 2021, 10:51:55 AM
Congratulations on the new townhouse! Renewal is a wonderful thing. Seconding what Nas said - focus on you. Over time, your need to point anything out to her will likely diminish. If you need to do it for your own well-being, it’s important to honor that. Just keep the focus on what you need for your own self care, and be kind to yourself. And most importantly; enjoy your new home!
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#57: August 09, 2021, 11:08:53 AM
I already edited it, but if I missed one someone let me know.
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#58: August 09, 2021, 11:36:08 AM
I already edited it, but if I missed one someone let me know.

Thanks offroad, i think just putting an initial instead of the name is okay.
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#59: August 23, 2021, 09:23:57 AM
Along with my health and workout stuff, I stay completely away from alcohol Monday-Thursday. I do enjoy some drinks on the weekends and don't usually overdo it-- it's my favorite social outlet but the flip side of that is Monday depression and that is when my ruminating thoughts often get the best of me about the divorce and ex wife's MLC. I should probably start cutting it out on Sunday but with football coming up that's hard.

I am in my place and my bedroom is  furnished but the living room is empty. My sis-in-law is an interior designer, and she came by Friday to look at the space. My TV comes this week, so I just keep telling myself it will all come together.

I get the real estate emails from my previous housing search and saw my old home on the market and for some reason that bothered me. It sold in a day or two of course. And I heard from a friend that she met two girlfriends -- she is moving  to Colorado.

I didn't ask if it is with probable OM. 

I just-- what do you do when you are betrayed in the most heinous and evil way possible? I guess there is just going to be ups and downs.

Even though I know not to try to replace ExW I still go out and try to talk to women. The last time I was single was 2013, I was 34-35. Not too old, can still date from roughly 27/28 year olds up to my own age. But now I am 43 and it's like some time warp. That age group is mostly what is out there at the bars and restaurants but now I am older.

I am not concerned with my age -- I look probably better now than I did then -- it is just the people out there where I go are just naturally younger so it's like, I can't find many of my peers. I dunno I have only been divorced since officially since June 30th, I am not sure what I expect.

I've already had a nice meet up with a really great, attractive women I'd met at a party this spring. We went to a concert, had fun. Were affectionate.

It is just strange-- I resent being put in this situation at age 43. I was content being married. So it is as if her MLC has forced me into a pseudo replay situation myself, without the self destruction-- but I am forced to "live younger" than I'd prefer.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 11:03:38 AM by Pendragon »

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#60: August 23, 2021, 10:33:52 AM
Hi Pendragon,

Your post resonates so much with me right now as I just got settled in my new place this summary and I am adjusting too during my time on the weekends.  I too am adjusting the my new social life and am focused on just spending quality time with friends for now.   Will not even consider talking with women for now until my D is finalized.   Such a weird place to be in and I'm starting to adjust.   Wish you the best to as you work through this next stage in your life.

HF
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Together 19 years, M 17
2 kids
BD - July 2020
W Left Home - January 2021
W Filed for D - May 2021

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#61: August 24, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
In reading some of the posts in the forum the past couple of days I feel like I have reached a greater understanding in my wife's behaviour, not just MLC and post, but overall.

My favorite grandfather doted on and held my grandmother in high standard and status always and that stuck with me. So I did the same by my wife. Not in an unhealthy, unrealistic sort of worshipping manner, but in a genuine way. I tried to lift her up, reassure her with regards to her imposter syndrome, always be clear with her how beautiful and talented and worthy she was etc.

We never, through the course of the relationship really fought, or raised our voices to each other that much -- to the point that if I were to respond at times with even mild to moderate annoyance, or I would raise my voice 2 octaves, she would get her feelings hurt.

While I realized that this could portend a possible "holding back" of sometimes needed tough discussion where perhaps "fighting" and terse conversations are warranted and needed -- my view and framing of this was that we held each other and our feelings in such high regard that our standards for how we treat one another were just that high and that was a good thing.

Fast forward to one of my wife's chief complaints in the relationship. A story she repeated to me and told every friend.

In  2015 she was attending a gym. I had needed to start some regular exercise. I was a little chubby -- not fat or obese but I needed to shape up. She asked if I would be willing to attend her gym with her. I was polite but firm in that I would not. I would rather do things on my own, then perhaps later go to her gym when I have somewhat of a better fitness foundation.

She replied that they would "work me up" and I could start anywhere. I told her gently that I appreciate her wanting me to do this with her but I am just going to be honest-- I do not want to attend your gym with you. Sorry. That might not be right of me but I don't want to (this comes out of insecurity of having been inactive for so long).

Fast forward to 2 weeks. She says she "has a present for me". It is free personal training at her gym. Again I did not raise my voice but I was pretty firm. "The gym I made completely clear that I did NOT want to attend? I was very clear. Do you think that by getting me these free sessions that now I have to go? Doesn't that seem like you forcing me to do something that I don't want to do?"

The logic here is pretty clear and if the gender roles were reversed it would have been seen as me basically calling the female spouse a fatty. I can see her good intentions in wanting to get me involved and I do see the benefit of us doing the gym together however I was clear that I didn't want to and I did not appreciate this attempt at being forced to do something I do not want to do.

Imagine a relationship so void of fighting and ill treatment that THIS is the #1 major talked about complaint. 

What I now notice is it is less about who was right and wrong in the situation and more about how it made her FEEL. It made her feel bad & that was that.

Our other "biggest fight" was when I did not want to dance at a wedding because I was really down in my back and she tried to force me to.

Aside from those two issues, the only other times (in 7 years!) we would exchange anything close to harsh words or raising voices was while driving. She was a very anxious passenger and would have very exaggerated responses to very normal traffic happenings to the point that her responses were making me react in a way that could cause on accident.   

So I would respond with my voice in MAYBE 2 octaves above normal "Why don't you look at your phone or something because you are going to cause me to wreck" and she would respond annoyed and this would all last maybe 8-12 seconds.

Yet she would continue to talk about this 8-12 second argument  for the next week or two! She would say things like "are we even gonna make it? Oh man that incident in the car, I can't get over it!"

And here I am thinking: I have couple friends were those types of back and forth are just DAILY occurrences that happen and are just forgotten. Again there is not cursing or hatefulness here, just some terse in-the-moment conversation.

I am noticing, looking back, her response to stressors was often totally out of proportion to the event and she associated ME with the stressor whether or not I was even involved sometimes.

In some ways I felt "blamed" for coronavirus as crazy as that sounds! She didn't take it as a worldwide event, that we were all affected by -- it more so seemed like something that was DONE TO HER and here I am, by proxy, somehow at least partly responsible for how this is making her feel.

Also I now notice that as we exited the honeymoon stage of our relationship, which seems to have been the 4.5 year mark-- the first 2.5 years of dating and the first 2 years of marriage-- which were magical and always fun-- and entered into daily, mundane life where things could get quite boring -- not "bad" by a long shot. No real bad times. Just not as exciting and new and fun and fresh-- something changed.

My father got sick with cancer, and I was the main researching and treatment planner for his illness. This brought back memories of her own Mom's illness and death of cancer -- whereby she abandoned her mother, stayed away less her illness negatively affect her personally -- similar to abandoning me in this divorce scenario.  Her sister pointed out this connection as well.

Ex W's sister said Ex W was "the apple of mother's eye and she abandoned her." which has, in the 17 years since cause a big strain in their relationship.

As time passed, and I started showing more and more concern for my wife's drinking, and would make comments I believe instead of seeing this as legit concern, her main focus was more on how my comments made her -- again-- FEEL and I started being associated with someone who now makes her feel bad about herself, even though my comments were always gentle and loving and she knows clearly that I was correct, she was drinking too much and it is a problem.

She knows things intellectually and factually but it seems to eventually be overcome by general "feelings" and then I am the person these bad feelings are projected on to. Eventually I am boring, uncool and no longer attractive.

I am ruining her good time instead of constantly showering her with praise and love.

There is a good chance if I was drinking with her every night instead of showing concern for her drinking, and just partying it up, never showing any concern, that she would have never gotten to the point where she dropped the bomb.

Criticism to her, is just YOU making her FEEL bad and nothing more. Even when she knows it to be true and pays lip service to the same issues herself.

It's so strange. I guess because she sometimes openly TALKED about her issues and problems and intellectually showed self awareness, I never realized that IN PRACTICE she responds very differently and was never prepared to emotionally deal with her issues. 
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 12:03:22 PM by Pendragon »

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#62: August 25, 2021, 01:00:49 AM
One of the most frustrating things I experience is when I politely say "No, thank you."  to someone or about something, and then when the other person keeps coming at me and I keep saying no, now I'M the bad guy.  How is it the other person can ignore your choices, behave as if they know better for you than you do, but you are at fault for standing up for what you know you want? It used to drive me nuts. "What part of no don't you understand?"

There really is no way she can spin that story to make it about anything but her. Even if she said "I bought him personal training and he refused it" it can't sound like it was ever really about doing something for you. Strange that THAT would be a go to story.

But you know, all the complaints my xh had about me were not things I had ever done. They were all things he had done. I have no idea how people spin things in their head.

I sometimes think never having a disagreement is an issue. It's HOW you disagree, not that you disagree that matters.
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Re: My MLC Wife story -- no kids
#63: August 25, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
There's so much in this that resonates with my xH, Pendragon. I think you're in a good place with the analysis.

My xH and I were not big fighters either, which at BD he said was a bad thing.  ::) But I've come to realize he was a 'mirror' in all of his relationships. What I recollected as deep conversations and connection were most of the time me talking and him parroting back my thoughts. It hurts at times to get real about that. But it's also freeing.

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#64: September 23, 2021, 08:42:46 AM
My sister-in-law, one of ExW best friends, originally hooked up with my brother at my Wedding. The rest is history. They now have 2 children together. 

She is an interior designer and so she helped me with the layout and furniture for my new place. We are waiting for the furniture to arrive for delivery and set up.

She tells me yesterday that the stuff might arrive next week when she is "out of town". 

"Oh, where are you going?"

"Scottsdale. Girl's trip."

The Phoenix Arizona area is where ex wife's probable affair partner lives. I am sure she suggested the city for "girl's trip".

It just really, really bothers me on multiple levels. She is still lying to everyone about the reasons for the divorce. It's her affair, not the fact that I didn't enjoy hiking as much as her and my bathroom wasn't as tidy as she'd prefer.

She still isn't coming clean. She is manipulating everyone and everything to her whims. Initially, the two girlfriends I mentioned that I am closest to, took up for me. She used time, and manipulation (cutting eyes, cutting off friendship until she gets the desired treatment) to manipulate them. Apparently now half the time they are repeating her mantras "Well, you know he didn't like hiking as much as her and oh his bathroom!" Ridiculous!

They aren't going to ask questions? They aren't going to press her on this? They don't even care? These are my friends too. My "family" of friends. My sister-in-law. Also my best friend's wife, who I've known for 25+ years

I shouldn't care and I am fairly well detached, at least in process. I would not WANT my wife back at this point after what was done to me. But this nags pretty deeply.
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#65: November 02, 2021, 08:16:29 AM
Ex wife finally admitted to the affair at the girl's trip. She is living with him in Colorado.

It turns out that one of the girl's had planned the Scottsdale trip back in Jan. it had nothing to do with my wife or her affair skank. The location was just a coincidence. So that made me feel better. It appeared to me that she planned the trip and all the lady friends were headed out to celebrate her affair but that wasn't the case.

Instead, at least two of them that I know, were appalled. The dude she is with is a legit narcissistic predator.

"Sooooo you've just been lying to everyone for the past 9 months" -- apparently she just shrugged that question off with a giggle and a "I just didn't want to be married anymore."

One of the girlfriends used to date this man years ago-- back when it was easier for him to present as "normal" and, knowing him, she knows his compulsive lying ways and she apparently read my ex wife the riot act about it.

It is very strange re-reading some of our text and email exchanges in light of the REAL reason for the divorce, her alcohol fueled affair with a man who lies about his identity and moves across the country in utter disgrace when found out-- she has sadly become a mirror-image of her affair partner.

This person who used to communicate so clearly, and wisely, about everyone else's issues, who had ZERO patience for any infidelity in the lives of our friends and family, has been lying about her own affair for months.

At this point, there is finality. This person is, in a very literal way, totally different. I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship. Now I am mostly just sad about the deterioration of this human being armed with the knowledge that this abominable union she is in, is doomed-- the proverbial slow moving train wreck.

I do want to email her and just rip her to utter pieces now that I have nothing holding me back-- but I know how futile and ego driven that is. Still, it seems like she thinks she just played all this perfectly and really "got away" so to speak-- and she did literally "get away".

All of this is just so strange. Does anyone ever REALLY know anyone else.

And on top of that, do we even know ourselves?
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#66: November 02, 2021, 08:37:37 AM
I’m sorry, Pendragon… for the circumstances that led to her divorce, but also for that doubt that the MLCer’s behavior has put into you. That question about how well we ever really know anyone else, it lingers long after we are healed and moving forward in our own lives. I’m sure some people get past it and learn to trust again; hopefully, most of us do. But it often causes a level of doubt or even suspicion in us that wasn’t there before BD.

I’m glad you know the true story, and that you know that at least some of her friends aren’t just enablers that shared her disrespect for your marriage. Mostly, I’m glad you are able to heal and move forward from this.
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#67: November 02, 2021, 09:31:18 AM
Did it turn out to be the infamous,Roy or someone else, Pendragon?  ::) ::)

Well done on resisting the urge to shout at her by email. Good call bc as you say, futile. There can be a strange kind of closure in knowing that they fit the textbook and that you were not imagining things. Yet of course, natural to look at the last year’s interactions with a more jaded eye. It sounds as if she has predictably ‘affaired down’ - strange how often they do this  ??? - and I suspect the consequences of that will prove to be how her karma bus shows up......that what she ‘got away with’ will turn out to bite her on the metaphorical bum.

I’m not sure about the ‘can we know others really’ question. I think so, or well enough perhaps,  but it is normal to be left with doubts after this kind of experience. What I am pretty sure about is that being face first in the rubble as an LBS and then digging our way out means we get to know ourselves pretty darned well, warts and all. There are things my xh did which I know, whatever the circumstances, would have just been beyond me, a foriegn language. I’ve had to face and forgive myself for some of the previously unimaginable ways I reacted, true enough, but they pale in significance by comparison. Tbh I suspect part of the future struggle for any MLCer is that their own actions do change who they are....the old actions make the man principle...and for many, with time, that becomes a rather uncomfortable reality.

With hindsight, a vanishing spouse living far away turned out to be more helpful than not in my own recovery. It force me to close doors I might not have closed otherwise. I hope that this will prove to be the same for you, my friend.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#68: November 02, 2021, 10:02:01 AM
Hi Pendragon,

I am sorry to hear the news about your W admitting the affair and I am glad that some of her friends were appalled.  They should be.   I am in a similar place as I head for divorce and my W still hasn't admitted the affair.  Assuming it will come out once D is finalized.  I feel the same way as I'm not sure if I could ever forgive my W at this point after a year of lying.  I think I could of forgiven if she admitted upfront but accept my reality which makes me sad.

I hope you are able to heal as you detach and let her figure out her life.

HF



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#69: November 02, 2021, 10:12:49 AM
I think if I (uncharacteristically - for me) look for a positive in your post, it does show that often things aren't as they seem and the "worst" that we think is happening is not what's happening at all, and I'm so glad you were shown that through your wife's friends proving to be shocked rather than what you thought might be the case of everyone knowing and cheering her on.

Where I am currently in my thinking is I don't think we can ever really know anyone else, which makes it all the more of a gift when we open up and trust each other, and we just have to hope that we actually do know ourselves enough to know when our boundaries are being crossed and when we see what are red flags for us (and truly see them and not ignore them/turn a blind eye). Beyond that, we have no control over what happens within another person. I've come to the conclusion that I don't want that to prohibit me from ever having another meaningful relationship...but the knowledge that someone can discard you in the blink of an eye will always linger in memory. But the hope is also there that I can be confident enough in myself to embrace a new experience and accept whatever it brings. Just my rambling two cents on that.

But I'm so sorry, Pen. The reveal of something we already knew in our gut to be true is still painful and hard. Give yourself time to feel it all and process. It sucks and it's so, so unfair - people shouldn't treat each other this way.
Hang in there.
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#70: November 02, 2021, 11:31:39 AM
I have read that at some point many MLCers do wake up to the ramifications of what they have done in a visceral way-- sometimes this realization makes them suicidal.

More likely, and sadly for my Ex-wife, I think she will just devolve further and further into sociopathy-- different rules for her vs. everyone else-- hatchet job morality. And she literally has an experienced master trainer to further teach her the ways.

This is silly but it's literally the path of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader. Anakin even gives his justifications for his heel turn-- "from my point of view it is the Jedi who are evil" etc.
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#71: November 02, 2021, 01:06:06 PM
Hi Pen,

Wow, that's a whole lot to come out. In a way, that's really good: Less questions unanswered, it has given you clarity, you know how far she has fallen and that the AP is not some mythical unknown Greek god (he's just a professional serial loser).

It is quite sad, but like you were saying: This isn't the women you married. You still have the best of her even if what remains is lost forever. That is something the AP never gets: The kind, honorable, good person you knew..... they never have that. 

Glad you are putting it all together and becoming stronger (it's obvious). Life does make you go  :o sometimes, but it wasn't because of anything you did. For every person like you, there is another and another. The world isn't completely full of self destructive broken people or enablers :)

-SS
 
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Start of Shadow - Feb 2012

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#72: November 02, 2021, 02:06:53 PM
Hi Penadragon!

Not that it’s much consolation, but you’ll probably find many LBS on this site can sympathise with what your wife has done and become.

She has a terrible case of victim mentality. You should do some reading about this, firstly to understand her, but most importantly, to realise that this isn’t your fault, wasn’t caused by you, and has been a lifelong character trait of your wife.

How many times did you notice her genuinely say sorry (to you or others)? People with victim mentality spend the first 5-10 years of their marriage never apologising for anything, and seeking comfort and support from their partner because bad things just keep happening to them, they’re such a victim and it’s just not fair. Then a switch flips, and they are a victim of you and they seek that comfort from others because you’re the worst person in the world.

You may even find that she had a string of relationships before you two met, where every guy was a douchebag, an abuser, a controller or horrible person. I bet she never made a mistake in any of those relationships, and I’m sure she had to leave them all.

This is a sociopathic pattern. She is not going to change. She will spend the rest of her life blaming others for all of her problems, surrounding herself with people who repeat back to her what she wants to hear, and will chop people cold turkey who ask hard questions or don’t tell her what she wants to hear. By doing this, she gets the validation she wants and can convince herself that she’s a good person.

When scumbag affair partner turns out to be a loser, be prepared for it. If she wants you back, she’ll say “he tricked me, he took advantage of me.” She will never be capable of fully accepting responsibility for anything.

You can guarantee two things in life -
1. Taxes
2. Nothing will ever be her fault.

Time to research it, time to realise it’s not your fault, time to realise these people NEVER change… and time to heal your heart and rebuild a new, happier life.
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#73: November 19, 2021, 10:35:12 AM
Now that I know for a fact that she was having an affair during the entire divorce saga, this colors the entire back and forth communication on text and email between us much differently!

Just going back and reading (don't worry I've only done this a couple of times) the exchanges knowing what I know now-- it's insane!

In late June she texted me:

"If I had any reservations before, your behaviour during all of this has cemented it."

She abandoned me, emotionally abused me, lied to me, her friends and family for 9 months. Cheated on my with a known con man who has lied about 75% of his entire identity to multiple women, Brought this man in our home in the guise of "a friend" and attempted to get me to go to bed so that she could spend private time with him in our home.

It is 100% clear now that I was, in her eyes, irrelevant and subhuman during this entire ordeal. I meant absolutely nothing at all-- just an obstacle.
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#74: November 19, 2021, 12:00:15 PM
Pendragon,

I am so sorry! It is so hard not to review their words and actions as truth, but the truth is they were looking for wrong in us to justify their actions.  They end up with an easy target when their actions unravel us.

This is part of the GAL… getting YOU back…not getting her back! 
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#75: November 24, 2021, 06:26:09 PM
In late June she texted me:

"If I had any reservations before, your behaviour during all of this has cemented it."

She abandoned me, emotionally abused me, lied to me, her friends and family for 9 months.

Hi Pendragon!   My W did the exact same thing blaming me for her lying and affair.  It's been over a year and my W still hasn't been honest with me and others.      Agree with Zion that GAL focusing on you is critical.   Good luck as you work on your self and move forward in your life.

HF
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#76: November 24, 2021, 06:45:49 PM
My W said the same.
"You made me do it"....uhm no We didn't. It was a choice that she made.

They attempt to justify their choice by vilifying us and whatever paints them as the victim in the situation.
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« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 08:18:13 PM by Pacman »
"Trying to taste green with my elbow ;-)"

BD June 23rd 20 21
Moved out July 8th 2021(Same day our granddaughter was born)

 

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