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Author Topic: My Story Love and Insanity continues

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My Story Love and Insanity continues
OP: July 28, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
So as my story continues…. My XH went on vacation with the OW. The one he says he doesn’t love. They drove 16 hours to their destination. He continues to spend water like it is money. A man that is extremely stingy. Also, A man that just expressed his exhaustion from the past few months from driving 5 hours both ways to see OW on the weekends to “escape my thoughts”

Trying to hard to detach and find some calm, but today my daughter who works for the same company was told by a stranger at work that her Dad was at a wedding on vacation that she had no idea. It was during small talk. My daughter is getting married in September and the person was asking her about her wedding and said he had thought it was this week when her Dad told him he was on vacation to attend a wedding.

She said she tried to play it cool, but was embarrassing and shocking to have someone else tell her that her Dad was on a vacation attending a wedding and she didn’t know, but just another reminder of the disconnect with with his own children. It makes me mad at him and feel bad for her.

What is truly shocking is the last time my XH attended a wedding I had to call the police for a well care check as he drove off from the reception drunk and suicidal. Weddings remind him of the fact his youngest daughter ( whom died at 14) would never marry .

My oldest daughters first wedding started my XH rapid decline into depression and MLC. She divorced and now is marrying again. The announcement of her getting engaged was what out him back in a major decline and his ultimate departure and asking for divorce. I am baffled beyond belief that an exhausted extremely emotional man would agree to drive OW to a wedding that he should not be able to emotionally handle. That is the craziness of the MLC mind.

Original thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.0


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« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 04:12:34 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#1: July 29, 2021, 12:17:53 AM
I’m sorry, Tornup. With time, you and your daughter will probably reach the ‘oh well’ stage. I think this is when we stop expecting them to behave in any way that resembles who they were or with any kind of ‘normal’ logic that we can comprehend or care to consider. And then you will find yourself both detached enough to not feel mad/bad or anything much about it at all. But it takes time, my friend. Time to adjust to this new reality that how you and your adult kids see xh now has to adapt to fit this new ‘normal’....and expectations adjust along with that. And a constant effort to pull one eyes away from him like when you drive past a car wreck really..... :)

Might sound a bit nuts, I know, but I used to have various short phrases I used. A kind of aide-memoire for my poor confused brain, if you like, which evolved over time. Initially, ‘my h does not care’, then something like ‘I don’t know’ then, now, on the rare times when I need one, probably something like ‘it’s in the past’ or ‘it doesn’t matter now’. Bc our perspective on this - and them - evolves as we heal. And the healing probably goes through a phase when we have one foot in the past (where they matter) and one foot in the present (where they start to not matter). Would it help to have your own phrase right now? Idk. But keep going, Tornup, it gets easier step by step with time......

As we start to heal, there is a point imho when it’s no longer about the metaphorical nail.....
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 12:54:09 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

T
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#2: July 29, 2021, 04:01:43 AM
Treasur- That METHOD of having a “PHRASE” has actually gotten me through many a low moments and to be honest my phrase had been more of a crude on, but yet affective. The standard  F#@#  HIM !!

I think we can always take on more ourselves, but when it affects our children adult or not it is a different story. I mean, I picked him to be their father. Ughhhhh, but we don't have that crystal ball to determine what will be and so we deal with what is.

My EX brother-in-law called me and we had a nice 2 hr chat before all this. He said he is reaching out by text to his brother and he is now responding. He usually asks him how he is doing and gets a response oh basically “have good days and bad days “  BIL said XH did visit him while in person and he said he is clearly a shell of who he was and his eyes are black like he is not there. There is a relief that someone, but me sees it.

Detachment at this point is my focus. I REALLY need sanity and calm. My work is all changing and seems nothing is staying the same. I have made great strides in this past month on a personal level. I hired a financial advisor and am working on building my financial future, which already looks pretty secure. I refinanced the house under only me and decided to stay in it for now, but pay it off in 8 years vs 12 that remained on the old terms.

So as my XH continues to self destruct financially and personally I am taking control on those levels. He is showing everyday he DID need me and our family and frankly I am showing I DONT need him.

So I guess my new phrase is  “ I GOT THIS”
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#3: July 29, 2021, 05:51:08 AM
So I guess my new phrase is  “ I GOT THIS”

Between that and

for the newest antics of xH.... But those antics are really no long your issue... So maybe another phrase might be
"Not my circus, NOT my monkeys!"
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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
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Divorce final 30 August 2019

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#4: July 30, 2021, 11:12:20 AM
So much reflection the last few days trying to make my cut off of communication stick this time. Reevaluating my marriage.

My XH never had a mean word, so I think it has been hard to view him as abusive. He was! Emotionally abusive.  He always helped around the house, complimentary, kind and when off work available and did things with me. Yet, on reflect what he did was much less than what he seems to have time and energy to do now. Maybe in-fact what seemed to be him doing everything I wanted was not as it actually was. Maybe it was IF he was ready or wanted to do something. Maybe everything he wanted to offer was what HE was available to offer; he wanted me as long as HE wanted me, as long as he didn’t look around for someone else HE could want.

I was OK, even the best, only as long as I kept my profile low and asked for nothing I needed emotionally.
After almost 30 years I have come to finally understand that there's something else beside being abused or betrayed that can make you feel miserable when married: that's not being seen.

His good manners, his rationality, his all too wise and balanced detachment actually made me feel guilty all the time for being over emotional, over-demanding, unstable, unpredictable, restless and never-contented.
Around my early 50’s I started trying to be closer as I felt him slipping away after our daughters death.  Starting to feel I was not good enough anymore. A totally ALWAYS self confident woman in looks and personality. Where did that come from, where did I go?

It had to be me, because he was kind, correct, rational, unabusive: he was there… when HE was there and how HE wanted to be there. I realize now I felt non existent.
Is it really too demanding to ask to be seen? He would never hit me, or insult me, he swore he never cheated on me (all the while having 3 EA affairs), yet to hug me, or kiss me started to feel like a chore. In the end, he would avoid even looking at me.

Once I asked him what he loved in me . He said I was strong, independent, loving, My strengths were his weaknesses.
Having to ask put me in a vulnerable place. I felt my desperate need of affection was stupid, exaggerated, childish. Maybe what I needed was really nonsensical,  maybe it was even bad to ask to such a good man.
Then I would start accumulating frustration and bitterness, until I'd finally explode still feeling lost.

Whenever there was a deep discussion, he would not reply to me, he would just let me go on and on and then he would stop talking to me for some time. Never having anything to say. Never having the words. I realize now that we had the same discussions, because he never responded, so they just kept coming up. I had many one sided conversations.

It wasn’t always like this, yet to some degree it was. Depression and MLC brought it to an unsustainable level for a relationship.

So, what am I mourning ?  Is it someone I had in my mind who simply did not exist. Maybe I had constructed a husband to fit the story I wanted to be in. Maybe I just settled?
Now I realise that as much as he wouldn't see me, I wouldn't (or didn't want to) see him.
I had invented the ideal husband I wanted him to be (truth be told it was the man he had told me he wanted to be, but never was), and now maybe I do not feel miserable for the man I have lost,  but for the fairy-tale I cannot keep telling myself.
Is it possible he remained inside the marriage only until he found a replacement?

In our last year together he worked quietly and steadily to push me away: gently, softly, more and more silently, he would skilfully build the tallest wall of no's, don'ts and can'ts, until I transformed into the worst, bitterest, saddest version of myself.
Yet, even more stubbornly, I would keep asking what he would like to do. What would make him happy. Vacation, activities, move ?? What would help? He was unhappy, but I was also unhappy due to his unhappiness. However, I had found a way to cope: I had accepted the idea that I was not worthy. That if I just hang on he will come out of this. I was devoted.
In the end, exhausted and love-deprived, feeling shameful for having become the worst copy of myself, I was blindsided with divorce and to follow the OW.

He has been with OW for one year now to some degree  from my calculations. XH I think gave me a great settlement as he feels he was economical obligated to me (for old times' sake), I agree he was. I helped to get him where he was.
He also wants to remain friends: after all we have been together over 30 years, yet I had seemed to be doing all that work as well.
I tried  to be friends for some time, but now I have decided to stop seeing him at all. Stop talking, texting.

You know why? Because despite all, every time I talked to him I think I started hoping he'd fall in love with me again. He would snap out of it (not something I am not sure I actually want, but my ego needs) I do mourn my family and future.

He cannot even remotely understand the emotional turmoil I'm in, the codependence I developed as I was desperately trying to save our marriage. Trying to save him.

I think I have finally come to understand that I do not need to wait for him anymore to know I am worthy.  It took me a little bit.  I do understand he was unhappy and I know I have ownership in that, but have been able to reflect and hope that I can use that to be a better person going forward.
I know he felt misunderstood as well, but I tried. I asked all the right questions, but a closed off non communicative person gave me no answers. 

Now I want peace for myself and for him. I love him as a friend, but that friend does not exist. I hope by separating that he will do the work and in the future we can have a friendship. That can only happen with detachment.

Im not oblivious that knowing all this, will not extinguish the pain, stop all the tears, prevent my heart from breaking, as I have a way to go on my journey, but I have hope that at some point I will be free!
 
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 11:49:05 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#5: July 30, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
Just know that you are worthy. Trying to pick apart the past is a fools errand, in my book. My XH and I had GOOD times, I didn't imagine those and I refuse to let what he has done color those memories with an excrement brown. Was he perfect? Nope. Was I? Nope. None of that matters. Normal people deal with differences in an adult manner. MLC is anything but.

What we really have here at the end is that in many cases they ramped up to the discard and we did not notice. We erroneously assumed that they were going through a "spell" and would work their way through it. But they knew the discard was coming and we did not. They withdrew affection, time, etc, trying to make us angry enough to leave so WE would be the bad guys, not them. No one saw the subtle withdrawls, the antagonizing. In fact, I took to taking my own car when we would go places because he would pick a fight in the car, then enter the party like nothing had happened leaving me to put myself back together, wondering what the heck just happened. That was my first real clue that something was really screwed up. But I still thought it was because he was having issues at work. The truth was, he was having issue at work because he was heading down the hole. I was aware enough to know how to deal with the behavior, but not enough to see that this wasn't just a blip in life.

Was he just a reflection of you, maybe the person he wanted to be? (Mine did that, used someone else as his own identity, switching from time to time) Was he always a jerk and you didn't notice? There was a conversation on nas's thread about accepting behavior that really isn't acceptable because you might not know any different. Are you used to dealing with not really being seen? I know I was, minimizing my needs until I was not just low maintenance, but non-maintenance. I maintained myself. That helped me in the long run, but isn't necessarily the way one should be.

We can "maybe" ourselves into the ground. What you do know is what he is NOW. Do you want to hang with that? Do you want to be a friend to a person who cannot be a friend to you at this time? Do you want to listen to what he says and wonder if he is STILL lying? You can decide the answer is no to all of those questions, and still be open to him returning somewhere down the line. Or not.

It had to be you? No, nothing "had to be you". If you had 20 great years and the last three were gawd awful, those last three years do not have to negate anything good that came before. Rewriting our own history is not really helpful. Own what is yours and throw away the rest. If you accepted unacceptable behavior, sure, identify that and make sure you do not allow that from another human being. Figure out a boundary around that.  Now that you know about feeling unseen, if you feel unseen and you have addressed it and nothing changes, you can stay with whomever does not see you, or you can move along. No, it's not easy at all but it IS within your control. You cannot control if someone else chooses to "see" you or not.

We do not live in bubbles. What other people say and do does affect us. What we control is how we want to deal with what others say and do.
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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#6: July 30, 2021, 03:16:34 PM
This is a really important conversation. I think for those of us who go through divorces, there comes a time when we have to get super honest with ourselves. We're going through a grief process, and the only way through, is through. Can't skip any of the realities that come up if we want to heal.

When I got BD'ed, my experience was a lot like others' here: I idealized my xH. And I did that for many years, because it made it easy to stand for such a great person, a great relationship, etc. He really had been my best friend since I was 17, but that didn't automatically make him perfect. Or shouldn't have. ;) And he definitely had some mental health red flags all along, but I loved him, warts and all (and I knew I too had some issues. Who doesn't?).

It's also easy at BD to see narratives like the standing sites present, with 'lead in' times and esoteric paths, and project our own situations into them. But if we remove those concepts at some point (and divorce is a really good point), we can hit the kind of realness you've done here and have a more objective view. "18-month lead in"? How about, "Things gradually started to change in the dynamic of our relationship." "This isn't a normal divorce, it's MLC!" that leaves us with this triggery resistance to actually processing the divorce to "This is what happened to me."

And it's also hard to accept that whether they ever become more like their old selves again or start to turn an eye toward reconciliation of some sort, putting our lives on hold for years and keeping tabs on "the script" or "where they are in the timeline" doesn't matter. I think we do those things to still feel involved with them. I know I did it. I was just not ready to really let go.

Once I did, I was surprised at how apathy was not what initial came, but all of the anger I'd staved off for years. I not only could no longer see only the good parts of him - those were gone - but every wrong that I'd forgotten over the years presented. It's a healthy part of the process of grief! I rolled with it, and that passed too.

I shake my head at the thought that I could reconcile a relationship with someone so fractured, who would have absolutely nothing healthy to add to a new relationship. If he were a stranger on the street I went for coffee with, it would be over in ten minutes! And that's without any of the history. But I do understand giving it a shot. I value who I became because of standing. That was the win!

You've gone through so much, and as a family, I can't even imagine the weight of the loss you've experienced together. It's nothing to be taken lightly that you've let him process through in his own way while you yourself have soldiered forward in such a beautiful way that honors your daughter. There are no doubts that no matter what the outcome with him, you will be fine. But getting there is still a process. You really do seem to be so healthily on your way. It's a benefit to others that you've posted here to show your train of thought. Continue to lean on us, and be a great example.

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#7: July 30, 2021, 03:25:32 PM
Beautifully stated, OffRoad and Ready2Transform. And I do think most of us, in grieving the loss of the relationship that was, go through periods of idealizing the former relationship and longing to have back this idyllic partnership that probably wasn’t actually idyllic (even though it may well have been pretty solid); as well as periods of wondering if any of the good history was actually real - and this is magnified by the gaslighting that they do when they tell us they were unhappy for one year… no, five years… no, one hundred years. I think that most of the time, as we heal a bit and start to see things through our own lens instead of those provided by our grief and our oh-so-helpful MLCers, we come to the realization that some was good, some was less good, there were probably some warning signs, but maybe none that we could reasonably have been expected to recognize in the moment.

All we can do is move forward, heal, practice good, gentle self-care… and honor what has been and continues to be true and good and meaningful in our own lives.
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#8: July 30, 2021, 03:28:19 PM
Good words from OffRoad and Ready as always!

I would add that statistically, couples who have lost a child often end up divorced, so that is an added part of your story.

Looking back, many of our spouses were not able to communicate well regarding their emotions or their wants and needs. A small example was when we moved to Asia and I went with his administrative assistant to find an apartment. We found one I liked very much and called him to ask him to meet us there to see it..his response was "if xyzcf likes it than I am sure I will too"....that felt great at the time but it was quite common for him to accept whatever it was that I wanted.

However, when I read your post I felt that you were somehow rewriting history. I know that their crisis probably starts years before it shows externally but there are signs. Many of us look back and see the signs that we did not see then.

But as both OffRoad and Ready have said, I wasn't perfect either and it worked really well and I miss who he was and the family we had.

The only thing I wanted to add was something that was proposed to me in the early days. I was asked what food I absolutely hated. I responded "liver" and the woman who asked me this stated something like this:

"so, would you eat liver every day of your life for 30 years if you hated it?"

The feelings of being unworthy are good to flush out, especially if other significant people in your life and childhood contributed to why you might have felt that way in the marriage. All the processing is sooooooo tiring but sooooo very necessary.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 03:32:57 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#9: July 30, 2021, 11:30:17 PM
It probably doesn’t feel like it, Tornup, but I want to encourage you to accept that you are still in the early days of adjusting to a new situation that you never saw coming. Yours may happen to include a pretty speedy divorce, but the underlying process is probably much the same after a long marriage.

Most of us experience a pendulum effect....from devotion to a kind of disgust....as our brain tries to make sense of how we got here. And that can lead to us rewriting our own life experience a bit.
I’m not going to ask you not to do that. Most of us do for a while.
But I am going to encourage you to accept that you may not yet be at a place where you can see through the swirling mud with as much clarity as you might think. There are things that need a little more time to marinade yet. Let yourself feel and think as you do but accept that this may not be your eventual resting place with it all.

Why does this matter? Bc there can be a cost to rewriting our own history particularly if it leaves us believing that we caused things we had no hand in or failed to see what we did not see. We can damage ourselves by trying to explain out the dissonance of then and now. And most LBS don’t need more damage, do we?

I know that you have experienced the kind of grief that leaves us in an abyss for a while. Imho this process works a bit like that. Things swirl around for quite a while before they settle and our minds do some funny things in the swirl. So I know you know that the swirl does not last forever, that it is hard to see clearly through the mud and that one’s perspective changes with time. 

It’s normal and natural to try to make sense of something that makes no sense to us....tbh the MLC ‘label’ is probably part of that process too....but a kind eye towards oneself at least is important too bc our spirit does pay attention to what we think  ::) so when we can choosing thoughts that do not cause more damage matters. It’s just a bit difficult to pick out truth from swirl for a while. Just as the others say, it probably isn’t as black or white as your brain wants to paint it right now.....and part of grief is mourning the reality of our losses, of what was good and real and treasured in our lives. And accepting too that we couldn’t save these things from a life storm much as we wish we could.

It puzzled me for a very long time that a) I simply did not see whatever it was that happened in my h coming bc I am not a stupid or oblivious kind of woman and b) that I had felt so genuinely loved and valued for years and years which made no sense given more recent events even though I could remember the feeling like a muscle memory if I let myself. This was very confusing for me and I got stuck in it for quite a while. With time, a lot of time lol, it became easier to not try to retrofit my own life and memories, to accept that it was more likely that what was real was real until something beyond my pay grade and sight changed the ground I stood on. And that once that happened, it did happen and could not be unhappened so here I was. And that, if I was really honest with myself, I may never really understand the ‘something’ bc it wasn’t MY something. It was more like weather or what insurance policies call ‘an act of God’......not a very comfortable place to sit with though....and the fact that a metaphorical tornado had just destroyed my metaphorical house did not mean there was anything inherently wrong with how the house was built or with my choice to build there or how I had felt happy for years waking up in that house. It wasn’t an either/or, more of a both/and if that makes sense. It was a good happy house AND it was now a pile of rubble.

But there was also a time when I realised that I no longer wanted to camp in the rubble too....one of those gradual shifts that you suddenly just know without trying and that has nothing at all to do with how good the old house was or not.
Time.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 11:36:30 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#10: July 31, 2021, 06:00:53 AM
Thank you all! I didn’t look at it as rewriting my history. I know there were decades of good times, but I do think I had him in a place of being TO GOOD TO BE TRUE. I think his calm demeanor and non avoidant personality in some ways made me think any issues were most likely me over reacting or due to my high energy (not so calm )personality.

Upon reflection a lot of my unease in the relationship was his inability to communicate and his ever avoidant personality. That only became a true issue once there was the depression and MLC.

I also agree that it is so early. My mind like a whirlwind still. I am just now beginning to realize I can’t  fix ANYTHING or make sense of ANYTHING. I have to let go and let him carry on. I cant make another person want to stay or fix or deal with ANYTHING!!!

The entire 8 months has been me trying to move on and also doing everything to sabotage my moving on. Fear once I move on that is the end of a story I truly believe was not to end. The death of our daughter being the catalyst for also the death of my marriage.

I truly understand now that I have to carry on and let go and what is meant to be from here on is meant to be. The hardest part of this journey FOR ME is I wanted a continued life with my family and even if I move on and meet someone else and am truly happy it will also feel like one story never had it’s correct and meant to be ending. It is like a unfinished story.

There is also a part of me that knows no matter who I meet or where I go from here at this age. I will never know all the players in another person life. I will never be a part of their history. It is the hardest part that you give your love, youth, history and loyalty to someone for this one life you have and someone can decide after decades it’s not what they want. I don’t think that I can grasp that ever. That is a lot of investment in someone and I think that is where it makes it seem like (for me ) am I not worthy? If someone can share all that with you and walk away? That is what makes you think is my core being not good enough??  But, I am. It is his insecurities and struggles that got us here. I never walked away. I can live with that. That makes me a better human at my core!!


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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#11: August 01, 2021, 11:00:53 AM
Well I had to send a letter to my XH today and copy my attorney. Im exhausted being the nice guy. Tip toeing around trying not to upset him. He did not pay alimony while he has been on vacation with OW and there is no excuse as it is done by bank transfer and can be done by phone.

I keep putting up with way to much while he has no concern for me. I think this will probably be the end of communication between us and maybe I am trying to force that on my end as I need to move on as far as being his security blanket. I keep investing a lot of emotional real estate in someone that sold the lot!

I never know if I am doing the wrong thing, but it gives me a lot of anxiety when he does not pay the weekly alimony on time.

The letter
——————-
Payment is to be made on Thursdays. I have tried to have several discussions on this and if there is a reason for delay to inform me. The payments are all over the place. There is also a delay with your bank. You must account for this when making payment. When you pay late on Sat or Sun sometimes it does not go through until another 3 days making it a week late.

Also the chiefs tickets balance still on my account has not been paid for the week. This I allowed to be made weekly even though it costs me interest for unpaid balance. I think it would be best you pay  the balance in full at this point instead of $250 a week.  The balance is $2592.41

Also house is in refinancing to be under my sole name. I would like to give the mortgage company your phone and email for any signing over set up they will need to complete the transaction.

Also, papers that were to be filed at the FW courthouse are now almost 6 months past due.

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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#12: August 01, 2021, 01:41:58 PM
I'm sorry you are stuck in this position. Does he pay once a week instead of monthly?

As to the letter, very nice. You stuck with the facts. Yes, he really ought to pay off that balance or transfer it to a card of his own. You should not have to carry that liability.
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#13: August 01, 2021, 01:46:45 PM
So, the reason I did the quick divorce is because he agreed to all my terms. My lawyer advised that if he would actually sign off on the agreement to lock it in. She said you can always get back together, but at this point he is cheating and unstable mentally and this will secure you. He pays weekly what most people dont get monthly
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#14: August 01, 2021, 01:55:36 PM
Valid point and reason, and correctly done to secure yourself financially.  You can still stand, not stand, stand until. It is still your choice.
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#15: August 02, 2021, 06:18:11 AM
Oooooo... Consequences!  AND responsibility to boot.....

THAT's Gonna make his head go <Boom!>  Mean old Mr. reality is SUCH a Buzzkill

There is absolutely NO reason that YOU should be paying interest for HIS bill.... He wants to be single, then by all means, but in order to make that happen, he needs to grab a hold of his squishy bits and do what is right.... which is what he agreed to do....
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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#16: August 02, 2021, 06:32:52 AM
Right? I think while on vaca he is in his escape mode, so most likely did not pay as I would then cross his mind. Can’t have that for his fragile egg scrambled mind!  I have told him to put it on automatic payments before. He said he hasn’t been able to figure out how??? Hmmm, high executive and can’t figure it out? Unfortunately, I so believe him on this. I paid all bills for 30 years. At this point he is technically challenged.

However, NOT MY PROBLEM!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#17: August 02, 2021, 09:08:02 PM
Well, still no alimony has been paid for last week. He however did answer a text today saying he did and would check again later tonight. At 10 pm I messaged this to him

It's 10pm and its still not paid. If you pay it now your bank holds it and it wont go through for several days. I am not sure what I ever did to continue to be devalued so heavily by you, but I am not taking it anymore. Enough is enough! I did your divorce, I have supported your mental health. I am not exactly sure how much more devoted and loyal I could have been through all this. I have been a true friend to you. So, for you to go on a 10 day vacation and not take care of your responsibilities to me, the one that has been your security blanket walking around carrying your pain its beyond me. You cant treat people who have loved you for decades so poorly and think they will just keep taking it. You are destroying your life. You are losing yourself. You are detaching from what is most important. I hope you can financially and emotionally maintain this new life that you are creating. It seems to be starting on the destruction of a life and family you once cared about. I will never understand it. You once said not to long ago

We can do whatever, I will always choose to talk to you

Let me know when you find that guy!

I know I know DETATCH!!’ This is my detach. I have let him walk all over me. I have a appt with my lawyer tomorrow to see about enforcing the alimony on his end. He can self destruct, but he is not taking me with him!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#18: August 02, 2021, 10:34:48 PM
Sometimes you just have to say what you have to say, get it out of your system. What I find amazing is that often the MLCer will not even realized how what he is doing affects the LBS.

When I met with my XH trying to get the house papers settled, I went on my lunch hour. He was 38 minutes late. In my married life, I'd have shined that on and not said anything. But instead I calmly said " I came here on my lunch hour because you could not be bothered to come in the afternoon. Then you show up nearly 40 minutes late. It is disrespectful of me and my time when you do that." He looked ta me like I had just grown a horn in the middle of my head and stammered "I'm sorry." And he actually meant it. At that point, he was used to monstering at  me and my taking it, but my line had been drawn.

You go, girl! Detach a little at a time if you must, but you can get there.
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#19: August 02, 2021, 11:02:00 PM
OR is quite right.
It is also probably true that your emotional (understandably) message will make no big difference to your xh’s inner workings. But that doesn’t make it wrong to say your piece, as long as you manage to adjust your expectations.
So, well done on not shilly-shallying before seeking legal advice on how you can enforce your legal agreement. I’m sorry that you have to do so, but sadly it is not uncommon. Agreements with MLC folks seem to rarely be worth the virtual or real paper on which they are written  ::)

Fwiw - and I don’t know the legal detail of your situation - it may be worth talking to your L about how you can make the financial transactions as hands off and spaced out as possible. A monthly payment rather than a weekly one, a lump sum rather than a monthly. Bc it can force us into more regular interaction than is helpful when we are trying to detach and keep us embroiled in a kind of MLC power/expectations/contact game which is a bit wearing to live with. So take legal advice on how you can make things happen as remotely and impersonally as possible, perhaps, so you do not have to feel that your life is being held hostage to his MLC emotions? Just a thought.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#20: August 03, 2021, 02:54:27 AM
I would like to third what OffRoad and Treasur have already said: say what you need to say. Just remind yourself its for you, that he can not/will not hear any of it. Have no expectation or hope that this will “make him” be a decent and responsible human being. Sometimes it is very hard to see our MLCers as they have become now, we just want to do something to make them “snap back” the the person we thought they were. But we have to see them clearly sometime to be able to start detaching properly.
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First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#21: August 03, 2021, 04:34:57 AM
Treasur,Offroad,Marvin

He paid the alimony overnight and it is pending! I know he will hear my words and they will hurt. He is a self blamer and likes to torture himself, so saying those words do come with consequences for him and I.

The alimony has to be weekly as it is 1k . It is also for 13 years.  I need to make sure it can be done so it is automatic and this doesn’t happen again. I did ask him to make it automatic through his bank, but he said he doesn’t know how. Yesterday I instructed him to call the bank to find out or I would move forward with the lawyer and enforcing it through payroll deduction if needed. He did not answer that message. Due to the alimony being for 13 years I think talking to my lawyer and finding out my options is still a good idea so I can detach more and not have to worry about this. He has always paid. Only 2 times has he been a week late, but it is never on the same day even when making it.

My XH is a strange MLC’r . The only time he will not talk to me is when he is with her. I think it is his strong avoidant personality. He doesn’t want the questions from her as it breaks his escape from reality. However, there are times things come up that he has to be contacted wherever he is. This is only the second time I have had to contact him in 8 months when with her.

He has been trying to keep a foot in both doors and my door doesn’t want to stay a jar any longer. I want some peace. I want to move on. I want to stop worrying about him and focus on me. There is no doubt that he is headed for a HUGE financial and emotional break. He can not keep up this heavy material spending on the OW and constant activity and not break. I think he needed me there for the fall.

I am no longer his FALL guy!!! 
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 05:38:45 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#22: August 03, 2021, 09:16:19 PM
Well the storm continues. Trying to wrap up the refinancing of the house and the alimony payments my XH finally called me tonight after 11 days on vacation with the OW. He was very distraught. Said he had a breakdown on Friday night while on vacation because he is stupid. Everything he does is a failure.

I asked him what was wrong and he said I’m alive. I said of course you are as you should, but what happened. What was the trigger? He said nothing that I know of it just happened. I said did she help. He said no. I said did you try and talk to her or did she ask and he said she tried.

He just kept saying he couldn’t talk about it. I said well lets talk about what was good on the vacation. He said nothing. I said 11 days and nothing was good. He said no. I said what sight seeing did you do. He said none.

I do know he spent $700 plus in cloth shopping on the OW. I believe that that is what he is referring to him being stupid. He wont admit that to me, but he knows no woman would expect $700 in clothes from someone that was in it for the right reasons.

I told him that he is obviously in a bad place, but better days are ahead. He said he would call me back in a couple days when he was in a better place. I called his brother to get him up to date and to have him check on him.

MLC and Clinical Depression are just impossible to navigate and I guess we will all need to make a decision if we need to commit him if he can not come out of this
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#23: August 04, 2021, 01:58:31 AM
Oh, dear Tornup, I wish you could see how a$$ about face this from the outside....
Your xh rings you wanting to talk (while saying he doesn’t) about his awful experience while on holiday with an ow. Having messed about with your alimony payments but found money to get ow dressed up.....And you try to make him feel better by asking him about what was good about his vacation.....

I don’t know how you feel about having been party to that conversation now or the fact that it was the opposite of what you said you thought you needed to do.
Probably what matters is your understanding why you did it....marriage muscle memory? Feeling you can or should help him? Worried what will happen to him if you don’t? Excusing his behaviour bc he is depressed so gets a free pass? Trying to love/nice him back?.....and deciding for yourself if this is what you are going to choose to do for the moment or, if not, what your alternative will be next time.

It’s easy perhaps to feel the pressure to be a bit ‘go, Girl!’ on a forum and say you want to detach or GAL when actually you’re not entirely sure you do. Or to be where you are and then evolve into a different POV. Many of us have been where you are....we might judge your actions in the sense of having an opinion like I did, but we will not judge YOU. It’s ok to be where you are at any one time and try to learn through trial and error what is best for you. I guess my only encouragement is to be as honest with yourself about your motivations and expectations as you can. And as grounded in reality as you can bear.

From the cheap seats, fwiw, two things seem to be currently real.
You are reluctant to resign from being a member of your former h’s emotional support team at the moment.
Your former h is content to normalise using you in this role, regardless of other realities or his own behaviour. (I am not saying he is using you as part of some grand Machiavellian plan, just that he feels entitled to get your support and attention if he feels bad. He may not see how a$$ about face that is either...or he just may not care bc depressed/MLC folks can be staggeringly self-centred  ::) )

As it is likely that your xh will take whatever you are prepared to offer at the moment, I suspect the calm healthy side of the street is for you to decide what you are prepared to offer. Or not. What the risk/reward is for you and him at the moment. What being an xw means to you. Without feeling the need to justify, defend or explain it to anyone but yourself. Including us lol bc we will support your right to do your best for yourself as you currently see fit. And then to figure out a version of that which feels balanced and liveable with for you so you decide on its relative priority and impact in relation to other GAL and practical stuff in your own life.

Hug from here x
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#24: August 04, 2021, 04:28:45 AM
Treasur-
I’m mixed on what you are saying. I had an appointment with my atty yesterday. I had to go over alimony and refinancing on the house with my XH as he has to sign over the house as he is on the current title.

He called to go over those financials and in the process was very emotional. I am not sure what happened on his vacation, but I think any person hearing a person in distress can not just ignore and move on. He called to go over the things, but was actually unable to.

30 years and a person in emotional crisis is definitely hard to move on from and my journalling shows just that. I  can be pulled into his crisis very easily. I am trying to engage his brother and family to try to ease myself out and we are trying to determine if we can commit him as he is clearly in a psych break.

Although I may no longer be married, that is a piece of paper. I had been married to him for 30 years and I do want to see him come out of this. I am just in the end a loving soul and I want to know before I exit that he has a replacement in a way that is investing in his mental health. I think if I really look at it with open eyes that is really the end goal. If the relationship is truly over. Which it appears he is not mentally capable of any relationship. Which then in turns comes back to he is making decisions not of clear mind and is constantly threatening death. When I asked without details what is wrong? He said I am alive. That is hard to hang up on.

I dont think I will be able to set myself free from the crisis that is him totally until I FEEL someone else is there. I am fully aware that his crisis is putting me in a crisis. My own atty said yesterday that I have proven that I make good choices when under distress. She said I am going to be fine. I financially took care of myself. She said he is not. He continues to make bad choices and he will most likely not be ok, but dont let him take you down with him.

I told my XH that we just need to wrap up these few financials and we can disconnect. I told him I need to move on. I want to move on. I really DO. I dont know why when he has these breakdowns it is somewhere in my head that this is why this is all happening and he is ill and I need to STAND by him.

I guess I came here journalling as this is a sight that promotes the right to WORK IT OUT and STAND for your marriage. Divorced or not. Just like the insanity of the MLC’r my head is all over the place between wanting to move on and then being pulled back by the insanity and wondering did I give up or am I giving up on someone who left and is obviously not in their right mind

Love and insanity!!! That is where I am……

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 05:13:11 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#25: August 04, 2021, 05:07:03 AM
Tornup: as a third party I will say that I read no judgement whatsoever in Treasur's post. I am sure she can speak just fine about her post, but I was surprised by your response.

I understand that sometimes honest feedback can be misconstrued as criticism. We are all here to support and share experiences. You may find that you won't necessarily get a chorus of agreement, unless that is what you seek. Then by all means feel free to ask and I am sure the community will not offer advice or opinion that differs from what you believe, and will be happy to provide support as much as they can.

I was going to write something just like what Treasur said, and the point was to share an outside view that may help you get away form the insanity. Sometimes it is helpful to hear from people who are further away from the crises at hand, yet have common experience with what you are dealing with, a very disordered and highly dependent husband.

If you wish to simply journal please say so, and you will find you have a safe space to do that. So can you share with us ideally what you would like from the community at large?
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First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#26: August 04, 2021, 05:20:32 AM
Quote
It’s easy perhaps to feel the pressure to be a bit ‘go, Girl!’ on a forum and say you want to detach or GAL when actually you’re not entirely sure you do

This part threw me off a bit.

I think what I was saying is I am admitting I am all over the place. His crisis is putting me in crisis. I am looking for insight with anyone that has that insight. Not just MLC but this deep depression. I guess what I felt was just the focus on me.

 I have days where I am great and If I journal that I believe it and then the tides turn. I don’t feel I am being ingenious. Im not trying to say one moment I have a revelations I am all better , but then not. I am obviously confused and in my own crisis. I am also strong, so I can flip between rational and irrational in the circumstances I am in.

I understand I can detach. I should for my own health, but I clearly can not when he keeps throwing himself into crisis and utter despair. When I said I am unclear I think I meant, so
Even though he is in total breakdown I should walk away? I should not believe it because he was able to purchase her clothes and be on vacation?
What I am getting from him is he thought he could go on vacation and then once in it then it was not the escape he thought. He is realizing he cant escape. This to me is some type of break through

I guess that is what I am seeing. He may be in worse shape, yet a break through. The OW is no longer an escape as she is seeing also the destruction or is she really totally seeing it?



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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 05:34:51 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#27: August 04, 2021, 05:37:12 AM
I am very sorry that you felt judged, Tornup. That absolutely was not my intention and I agree with your own lawyer fwiw on how well you have handled so much so quickly. In fact, I wish I had been able to do the same in that first year or so. Similar to you, I was dealing with a severely depressed h then, diagnosed as such, who knew something was very wrong with him and wanted my support for several months initially. I remember how confusing and literally physically heart-wrenching it was, how helpless I felt and how very much I wanted to believe I could help. It was long before I came to HS, but tbh i’m not sure I could find words even now for how truly awful a time it was. It felt rather like watching someone I loved kill themselves in inches right in front of me but on the other side of a glass wall while I frantically ran up and down screaming but unheard on my side. Just horrific. I ended up with PTSD eventually that further derailed my life so I know what my own fine blend of love and insanity felt like. It almost killed me tbh.....so I have nothing but care and respect for whatever your blend is.

So i’ll ease back from commenting on your thread and let others support you as the last thing I want to do is hurt you. I’ll keep reading along and support you from a quiet distance whatever you decide to do.
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 05:48:35 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#28: August 04, 2021, 05:52:36 AM
Treasur- I do not need silence from anyone. I appreciate any and all feedback. I was just confused on that part. I quite frankly judge myself. I have been through 2 home fires, home invasion rape ( which the man went to prison for 7 years) the death of my daughter, but somehow the destruction of this man is the worst.

Maybe it is I can’t understand that I can go through so much and come out the other end. To find my way and then to have the one closest to me not be able to. Maybe that is it. I dont know what is keeping me tethered to him. When I see him in person I see he is no longer there. He is not someone I am attracted to anymore, but the voice on the phone somehow makes me unable to break away.

Again, please do not stay silent. I clearly need tough insight. I am sure I need some judgment even if it isnt meant to be. As I said I am judging myself. I should be able to weather this storm as I have everything else.

The threats of him self harming himself is making it impossible for me to break away. I hope when I begin therapy September 1st it will also aide in my moving on.
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 06:04:15 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#29: August 04, 2021, 06:02:42 AM
Quote
I dont know why when he has these breakdowns it is somewhere in my head that this is why this is all happening and he is ill and I need to STAND by him.

I guess I came here journalling as this is a sight that promotes the right to WORK IT OUT and STAND for your marriage. Divorced or not. Just like the insanity of the MLC’r my head is all over the place between wanting to move on and then being pulled back by the insanity and wondering did I give up or am I giving up on someone who left and is obviously not in their right mind

It is very hard to watch someone that we love on a path of destruction.  You know him intimately. Possibly, if you are at all empathic, you may even "feel" something of his pain. Certainly after 30 years together, there are ties between you that are very very deep.

There are many different views about MLC. I have always looked at his crisis as a "dis-ease". That makes a difference in how I choose to interact with him. That was and is the right choice for me, others take a different view.

I had dinner with my husband this weekend and I recognized, as I always do,  that I love him, always have and always will. Loving people mean that you care about them, especially if they exhibit signs of such severe depression as your husband is showing. I accept him for who he is, who he has become.

Quote
I asked him what was wrong and he said I’m alive.

This statement caused me to react and I don't know your husband. But for someone to say that, would cause me great concern.

You are right, his crisis did send me into my own crisis as well which took many years for me to resolve.

You will find what works for you, so that you can find the peace you need to create a new life, and find peace in that. It will come with trial and error as to what feels right for you. You are trying to finish up some financial stuff that does require you to have contact with him. You have children together. He's not just going to disappear. More importantly, what I see is that he turns to you because he knows who you are, the person you are.

I see this as "unconditional love" and in reading about unconditional love, as well as in my faith life, we are able to love and accept someone yet still protect ourselves from harm.

It is 12 years since BD and I would still be there to help him if he needed me. That is who I am, that is what I want.

For myself, it was important for me to be able to have contact with him without it throwing me or causing me to loose my sense of equilibrium. When I was able to do that was when I felt I had healed.

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#30: August 04, 2021, 06:08:41 AM
Treasur- I do not need silence from anyone. I appreciate any and all feedback. I was just confused on that part. I quite frankly judge myself. I have been through 2 home fires, home invasion tape ( which the man went to prison for 7 years) the death of my daughter, but somehow the destruction of this man is the worst.

Maybe it is I can’t understand that I can go through so much and come out the other end. To find that way and then to have the one closest to me not be able to. Maybe that is it. I dont know what is keeping me tethered to him. When I see him in person I see he is no longer there. He is not someone I am attracted to anymore, but the voice on the phone somehow makes me unable to break away.

Again, please do not stay silent. I clearly need tough insight. I am sure I need some judgment even if it isnt meant to be. As I said I am judging myself. I should be able to weather this storm as I have everything else.

The fired of him self harming himself is making it impossible for me to break away. I hope when I begin therapy September 1st it will also aide in my moving on.

I think we all judged ourselves in the early days. In fact, that's what I thought Treasur was saying, you might feel a bit of pressure to GAL and present yourself as further ahead in detaching than you are to avoid judging yourself for not being detached and still entertaining his (imo entitled and selfish) phone calls to get his dose of wife empathy even while he's off spoiling his OW (who seems to have a taste for his money, if not a concern for his mental state).

The place you're at is totally normal. We all spent some time there. You're enough out of the craziness to put your financial wellbeing first and make sure you're not getting screwed, but you're still concerned for him and want to be empathetic.

BUT you will eventually (probably) leave that place as well. At a certain point, and it's different for everyone, (but imo the sooner the better for your own wellbeing), you'll stop believing that he needs someone there, you or someone else, before YOU can feel okay about fully and completely detaching.
This is something I learned after a while (again, Depression Fallout was great for this too). It's hard to stop caring - we're human and we feel real love and empathy for our former spouses, but there is nothing we can do and they will take and take and take for as long as we let them. His emotional turmoil causes you emotional turmoil - that's a problem and it's going to get unsustainable for you at some point.

I'm so glad the alimony got sorted this time. Like others, I strongly urge you to see about getting that on automatic debit or something. My former H paid 2 months of less than agreed amount in 2016. Then vanished (after blowing through retirement and savings) - I haven't seen a dime since then. I'm the extreme cautionary tale but just know that things can turn on a dime with these guys.

Hang in there and keep posting.
xx
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#31: August 04, 2021, 07:28:29 AM
Thank you Nas-
I think there is an interaction that I always go back to with him that keeps me stuck
Me:Sorry, if I can do anything let me know
XH-Love me?
Me: I feel I have been doing that for 28 years to the best of my ability faithfully
XH:You have, just need you to not stop

Now that he is self destructing is he making progress? Is he starting to face things and that is the turmoil ? Am I giving up when he asked me not to?

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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#32: August 04, 2021, 07:50:09 AM
Thank you Nas-
I think there is an interaction that I always go back to with him that keeps me stuck
Me:Sorry, if I can do anything let me know
XH-Love me?
Me: I feel I have been doing that for 28 years to the best of my ability faithfully
XH:You have, just need you to not stop

Now that he is self destructing is he making progress? Is he starting to face things and that is the turmoil ? Am I giving up when he asked me not to?

No judgment, but I bolded the part of the conversation I would not say anymore if I were in your shoes (and it's something I DEFINITELY said when I was in your shoes, so again, no judgment).

Saying "is there anything I can do" is the old wife muscle memory, as Treasur and Marvin said. And breaking out of that is hard after so many years. It's like a reflexive response that sometimes takes conscious practice to stop doing.
There is nothing you can do. He has to want to get help and then take steps to get it.
You don't have to stop loving him. There's the Al-Anon concept of "detach with love" - removing yourself from the situation but still having love for the person. 

Now that he is self destructing is he making progress? Is he starting to face things and that is the turmoil ? Am I giving up when he asked me not to?

There's no answers to these questions. My own opinion is if he were starting to face things, he'd be in therapy or at the very least, he'd not be having that emotionally manipulative conversation you described (sorry if that sounds harsh, but "please love me while I disregard you, your wants, needs and feelings, forget to pay alimony, run off with OW" is just that, emotionally manipulative).

Removing yourself from the situation and letting him go to figure this out is definitely not "giving up on him."  Because this is not something you can fix and it's not yours to carry.  You can have as much or as little contact with him as you feel comfortable with, but IMO, I would keep it to surface level talk (and I would avoid any and all conversation about his relationship with OW (such as asking him if she helps him deal with his depression, etc). If he tells you he's depressed, feels worthless, etc, that's something you can't fix for him. And at this point, it's more likely said to simply excuse his actions ("I'm not going to stop what I'm doing or make amends for past behavior, but I'm depressed and sad...")

I'm glad you're starting therapy in September. It'll definitely be good to have that in your toolkit to help you navigate this.
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#33: August 04, 2021, 08:07:13 AM
Doing what is best for you at any given time is a good goal. If you can detach enough to be his support, to be able to interact and not have it bring you down, then you will be doing ok even still being his emotional  support. Your main concern will be if you can continue to fulfill this role and not feel like it is "your fault" if he does have to be committed or does do harm to himself. Because it isn't. If he will not go for help, you cannot force it (unless you can prove enough instability to have him committed,  in some places hard to do).

Consider this: is your being his rock helping him because he is distraught, or hurting him because he doesn't have to stand on his own? That's a lot of pressure on you to try to mind read each situation and maybe a lot of pressure to "save" him.

I do think you ask the right questions to try to get him to think, though we're it me I would never mention OW. That's a me thing, though. Unless, of course you want to be the moral support for the relationship of your xh and ow. That seems like it would be a bit odd to me.

You keep taking care of yourself financially.  Find your balance on what is good for you in conjunction with contact with your xh. You can change your mind tomorrow and back again the next day. Try not to get stuck in the infinite loop of being sucked back into his issues. They are his to deal with.
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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#34: August 04, 2021, 08:24:27 AM
Quote
It’s easy perhaps to feel the pressure to be a bit ‘go, Girl!’ on a forum and say you want to detach or GAL when actually you’re not entirely sure you do
I think what I was saying is I am admitting I am all over the place. His crisis is putting me in crisis. I am looking for insight with anyone that has that insight. Not just MLC but this deep depression. I guess what I felt was just the focus on me.

Well to be honest the insight IS to put the focus just on you. You are already getting a lot of viewpoints and feedback, you don't have to take any of it obviously. You have to see what fits.

But it seems from your own words that you two are deeply enmeshed and codependent. He is trying to put his well being on you and you are fully accepting taking on his well being. And maybe even you are trying to fix him in order for you to be "ok." Well this is pretty well known to not work in either direction and leads to a lot of pain and discomfort. Its a little like saying "I want to put my hand in the flame and keep it there, how can I not get burned?"

I also think it may help if you separate the idea of WHETHER you care for him and want to help him from the idea of you are RESPONSIBLE for him or his well being. These are two separate things. No one can be responsible for someone else. The best we can do is IF they ask for tangible, real, and productive help AND we can give that without harming ourself then we help. He is simply dumping his pain and suffering on you while not doing anything to help himself. He is not asking for anything. He is simply telling you to keep suffering so he can not change one bit. That doesn't help him, and seems a little off balance, no?

You can put the focus on you, decide that when and if he is ready for help and actually is helping himself then you will help him. I don't think you suffering is any way helping him get better, nor is it making his worse. It may just have the effect of hurting you.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#35: August 04, 2021, 09:11:18 AM
I am glad to hear that you will be starting therapy Sept 1. Finding the right therapist really helped me and like treasur and others, finding someone who considered my reactions as PTSD really allowed healing to occur.

I also always found exercise to be very helpful, especially walking and if possible walking outdoors in nature. Also, I had already a active yoga practice and continue to practice yoga which helps to balance my physical and emotional being.

Keep writing and accept what sounds right for you and your situation for you are the one who knows it best.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#36: August 04, 2021, 09:56:06 AM
Quote
My own opinion is if he were starting to face things, he'd be in therapy or at the very least, he'd not be having that emotionally manipulative conversation you described (sorry if that sounds harsh, but "please love me while I disregard you, your wants, needs and feelings, forget to pay alimony, run off with OW" is just that, emotionally manipulative).

All great advise I may need to read several times. It is all invaluable. I do want to note that the above conversation I was referring to is from 2019, but just something from when he came back home after BD1 that I always remember. It was like telling me that he is far from healed but he is in there somewhere and if he loses his way again dont give up.

It is something I have never been able to forget.

I really do think for my mental health it is best to offer to speak to him on kids and financials , but to no longer address his personal issues as long as he is with the OW. He has now had a breakdown with her and so he is just as capable of discussing with her as me. He however should not be discussing anything about his life with an hourly employee, but he is already there.

I think this is my best approach to going forward. My biggest hurdle will be not getting pulled in by his emotions. I just need to ignore them and not react with “what’s wrong?” I just have to do it!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#37: August 04, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
I think this is my best approach to going forward. My biggest hurdle will be not getting pulled in by his emotions. I just need to ignore them and not react with “what’s wrong?” I just have to do it!!

This is a great approach. Be sure to give yourself time and space, and if you happen to keep "slipping" into trying to care for him don't beat yourself up. Just notice it, stop it, start over. Rinse repeat.

Its like muscle memory, it may take some time. We have all been there.
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No Kids, 23 years at BD1 (4 years), married 21
First signs of MLC Jan '15
BD 1 Jan '17, BD 2 Mar, Separated Apr, BD 3 May,BD 4 Jun '18
First Sign of Waking up-Dec '17, First Cycle out of MLC Mar '18-Jun ‘18, Second cycle Jul '18-??
Meets OM Jan '17 and acts "in love," admits "in love" Jun '18, asks for divorce Jul '18

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#38: August 04, 2021, 10:41:22 AM

“I really do think for my mental health it is best to offer to speak to him on kids and financials , but to no longer address his personal issues as long as he is with the OW. He has now had a breakdown with her and so he is just as capable of discussing with her as me. He however should not be discussing anything about his life with an hourly employee, but he is already there.”

I recall being in a similar enmeshed position and feeling that Inwoukd not desert my H in a time of trouble.  The reasons against doing this have been well Explained by others, but it used to help me to have little phrases, instructing me when my emotions were dictating my actions.  One was from a friend whose father had detonated in this way.  She told me “ If he wanted to be with you and the children then he would be with you”

And in the specific situation you are in, a therapist told me simply to say politely to him “You have ow to talk about those things with now”. And to withdraw. 

They were both helpful.  As far as I can see, any genuine movement (if there is any)  in the mlc spouse appears almost always to come after the enmeshment is over.
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#39: August 04, 2021, 01:31:34 PM
I really agree with that!! “ if he wanted to be with you he would” No matter the reasons he still makes a choice. My biggest issue is he fights therapy and drugs and I was the only person he would release his pain. Now that I know she should for sure know then she should be dealing with it. He is taking her on vacation, buying her gifts, taking her out to dinner.

I have had so much anxiety today. Something I really no longer want. I am going to disconnect. I really really feel the tide is turning now that he let me know she knows he is troubled. I feel I can release him to her.

And that is what I am going to do!!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#40: August 04, 2021, 02:07:55 PM
Tornup, this is such a hard thing to do, especially with a clinger. Remember that detachment is about you and your own well-being, just like boundaries are. It’s not meant to punish him in any way, it’s about your own self-care… putting on your own oxygen mask first, if you will. It may be that you can reach a place of being able to listen to him and be a friend and a part of his support system, and have that interaction be something that actually enriches your life. There should be some kind of reciprocity, though - the relationship should enrich your life in some meaningful way too. Whatever the legal or social relationship is or was between you, healthy relationships offer benefits to both people involved. Those benefits may look very different depending on the people and the type of relationship, but you deserve better than to be the one who gives and is supportive, while never receiving anything from him.
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#41: August 04, 2021, 03:32:36 PM
Curiosity,
I was getting answers as he was starting to open up and talk to me. He was starting to communicate. The last conversation before his vacation with the OW he actually said he missed me, thought about me and wondered what I was doing at times. Said he thought about coming back and trying. The next day he went on vacation that he now says was a disaster. Not one part was good. He had a breakdown during and now he is so distressed he cant talk again.

I definitely am not getting anything from this version of him. I feel like it is the worst version I have seen yet. Worse than when he left. I feel he is completely shutting down. Is more confused and distressed than ever. I feel he always wanted me in his life to some degree and whatever put him in this place I feel he could care less if he ever talked or saw me again.

It is scary. It is something I have not seen or felt from him. I think for the first time I am having the feeling of total discard maybe. I have to find a way to accept that he may never come out of this and somehow me being the one person he knew cared about him , so he couldn’t let go. I am now ( it seems to be) the one he cant get rid of quick enough. Not sure if he just doesn't want or feel he deserves to have anyone care about him or maybe I am the biggest reminder of his failures that are clearly coming to the surface.

This moment in time is the by far the scariest time I have had dealing with him.

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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#42: August 04, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
The back and forth in how they talk to us, what they say is very difficult. We are used to believing what they tell us.

In the first year after BD there were 5 times he told me I could be with him again, the last, we were actually moving again to another foreign work assignment. Usually a couple of days later, he would have a completely different though pattern, actually telling me at times that he never said what I know he did say to me.

I used the word "flipping" when I started to realize this bizarre pattern. Later, I learned the word "cycling" and it is quite common in MLC.

Perhaps because in the early days of MLC, they are confused as to what they want, or they have moments of "clarity" understanding that we still exist regardless of how far they try to run away. They cannot shut us out of their minds any easier than we can.

As they continue through their crisis, or as I prefer, they go deeper into their tunnel, this changes and we no longer hear them speak of getting back together or returning home.

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This moment in time is the by far the scariest time I have had dealing with him.

This contributes to our own PTSD because we cannot predict what he will say or do next. Our fight/flight/freeze sympathetic nervous system gets turned on and stays on in high alert..because we do not know what to expect next from a person who at one time we could finish his sentences.

Remaining in contact with him, although minimally has allowed me to "see" the differences in him, sometimes changing from one hour to the next. Over time, I could recognize more and understand more about his crisis and that ultimately helped me to heal. Because what happened and is happening to him is very very real.

Talking about it to other people who have experienced similar behavior helped me to get a better understanding of what had happened to him.

Quote
I have to find a way to accept that he may never come out of this

Yes, acceptance of this is crucial, although it's hard to push this on oneself. Even when we know intellectually, our hearts are still involved and so it's our journey too as we figure out what this means for how we wish to live a life without out spouse.

You are very good at recognizing some of these patterns. Observing them can sometimes allow you insight into something that is so strange and foreign and so misunderstood by many of our family and friends. That insight helped me anyway, to calm down my nervous system as I started to make some sense about what was happening.
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 04:11:14 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#43: August 04, 2021, 05:02:07 PM
Hi T,

The majority of Information contained in the website ‘Out of the Fog’ — for the families and friends of personality disordered persons — helped me figure out how to interact/NOT interact with my H while he was in the grips of MLC, which I saw as a profound psychological disturbance/disorder.   

You will see many familiar terms we use here on HS, such as detachment, not engaging in amateur diagnosis, getting help, etc. 

If you do read it, I hope you find bits of it enlightening and helpful.

All the best.

https://outofthefog.website/
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Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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#44: August 04, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
Xyzcf

Quote
Remaining in contact with him, although minimally has allowed me to "see" the differences in him, sometimes changing from one hour to the next. Over time, I could recognize more and understand more about his crisis and that ultimately helped me to heal. Because what happened and is happening to him is very very real.

This for sure. Really having the ever evolving insight let me really understand the struggle. Even…though so much is not disclosed and the lies to protect themselves still continue. You start realizing what the truth and the lies are. When they are moving forward or back, but one thing is for sure. I AM glad I am not him. As much as he has put me through I know he is in the pits of hell.

Acorn- thank you. I have read a lot on that sight. I have a lot more reading to do. I feel I have spent 8 months reading and still have so much to learn.
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 06:51:26 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

T
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#45: August 05, 2021, 06:06:05 AM
Yesterday was such an interesting day. With the turmoil of the aftermath of my XH vacation distress and my daughter (who is getting married next month) who went on vacation with her future family that turned destructive as well. The future family has some inner work to do and it all came out on vacation. My daughter came to me to tell the story and again you cant make it up.

So, I just started laughing!!!!!! I said ENOUGH seriously. Why is the whole damn world going insane??? Why??? I told her this to shall pass. We can’t control any of this. Just let who is going to self destruct do so. Don’t react and don’t let it get to you.

My XH did not answer my message on the chiefs tickets. I messaged him a reminder and he called. Still voice shaking and utter turmoil. I did not engage it. I asked what I needed to ask and his answer was he didn’t know, he can’t find the information….I said that’s ok. Just let me know when you do. We can avoid these phone calls if you just respond to the emails or texts. He said I’m sorry. I can’t do anything right  blah blah blah

I told him what was happening with D30 and he was attentive on the story. I stopped at one point and asked if he even wanted to hear. He said yes. He said he was very nervous about the wedding and seeing everyone. He hasn’t seen any of us for months. I said it will all be fine. Look at the other side of the family. We look golden now!!

I did tell him that I am not going to live my life in misery. I have one life and I am moving forward and I want to enjoy it and I am going to do that. He then got very emotional.  I felt for the first time I meant it.

I honestly feel that the turmoil he is in is because OW is putting pressure on him talking future . She offered to move in with him. I think he knows that could be catastrophic for his job. She would have to quit hers, but everyone would still know. He is in a different state. He also emotionally can’t handle full time with anyone. He hates himself. His kids wont accept her. I think he is all in his head on it and what to do.

I realize now he is so miserable. She will definitely be getting the worst version of him. I have calm here. I have my children and my grandson. I love my family and I am going to embrace it and what my future has in store. Laughter yesterday in all the chaos was everything!

I hope this calm lastssssssss !!!!



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« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 07:45:58 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#46: August 05, 2021, 06:32:04 AM
So, I just started laughing!!!!!! I said ENOUGH seriously. Why is the whole damn world going insane??? Why??? I told her this to shall pass. We can’t control any of this. Just let who is going to self destruct do so. Don’t react and don’t let it het to you.

Hi Tornup,

This is absolutely great advice.  As someone who is at the same point as you with a destructive spouse, it's great to see you providing your D with some valuable guidance.  Wish you the best as you detach and focus on your self-healing.

HF
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W - 42
M - 46
Together 19 years, M 17
2 kids
BD - July 2020
W Left Home - January 2021
W Filed for D - May 2021

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#47: August 05, 2021, 08:03:49 PM
Had to have a convo with EX again on home refinance. He is still in a horrible place. After dealing with this for years I am just over the crying actually. Tonight I again said he can go get help and if continues to not go get help then he will continue to be in this depressed state.

I told him I had given myself a year of trying to reach him and help him despite how he discarded me and replaced me so easily with OW. I said before the vacation he was showing glimpses of him. Starting to communicate and now his vacation has put him in a horrible place and he wont say why. Only it is everything. Job, death of daughter and destroying he family.

I told him that I am not his friend anymore. I care for him and will always have love for him, but was not in love with him anymore. I told him that he can still turn things around. That what he is now is what he has been, but he can determine who he wants to be going forward. He just has to decide to get help and do the work!

I told him I will not be checking in on him anymore. He will need to open up to the OW he chose. I said you have given up a lot to be in this relationship and you are not any happier, but it is your life. I just cant be part of it anymore in the same way.

I told him I am open to friendship in the future when he can give me the respect I deserve, but he will have to fight for it like I fought for him.

We will continue to be in communication for kids and business, but that should be seldom. I told him that wedding will be fine. We are friendly, just not sharing out personal lives anymore.

What a crazy week, but I continue to feel a release and empowered!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#48: August 06, 2021, 01:35:14 PM
Quote
But assuming the person was NOT a narcissist, did have value systems and acted with care and compassion for others before MLC then I have to say its not about integrity and characters. In my opinion MLC in these cases is a major psychological event. I don't mean a singular diagnosis or disease. Rather something that they have been papering over, working around, hiding, and even pretending is not there comes to a crises and they tend to have a fracture. The most visible element is the pain, the anger, the lack of empathy and the memory issues. They also tend to spend a lot of their time in a form of dissociative state (shark eyes, confusion, lack of caring). I do not believe that this would be avoided by saying if they have more character or integrity it would not happened. And yes, hormonal changes and maybe even depression of life events may accelerate this process but I do not believe it can cause it.

However if you spouse is not actually having a crises, if they are simply walk away, were tired of the relationship, or had to integrity and compassion and just were faking it then yes, character and integrity defines it well. But then in my world they are not having what we call "MLC" here.

And I'll emphasize NONE of this to me absolves them of the responsibility for the damage they do to their families and others. I for one believe the LBS needs to detach, protect themselves and their families emotionally and financially immediately, whether they want to stand or not. And hold their MLCers fully responsible for their actions. Both for their own sake and for the sake of MLCers. Because it is not a kindness to try to "protect" them from what is happening, you can only protect yourself.

I saw this quote from Marvin4242 on another thread and it is so worth another share. I think this is so spot on and true. Thank you Marvin4242 !!
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 01:36:15 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#49: August 06, 2021, 02:18:18 PM
Hi Tornup,

I just wanted to say I see you say things to you H that I said in the beginning, thinking some thing I said would some how get to him, but it's a waste of time.  Seriously.

You told him. "[I am not his friend anymore. I care for him and will always have love for him, but was not in love with him anymore. I told him that he can still turn things around. That what he is now is what he has been, but he can determine who he wants to be going forward. He just has to decide to get help and do the work!

I told him I will not be checking in on him anymore. He will need to open up to the OW he chose. I said you have given up a lot to be in this relationship and you are not any happier, but it is your life. I just cant be part of it anymore in the same way.

I told him I am open to friendship in the future when he can give me the respect I deserve, but he will have to fight for it like I fought for him.
"[/i]

Honey, I promise you none of this will change anything.  You are better off just leaving him alone.  Stop talking to him. He isn't who he was.  You are still talking to him like he is your H, he's not.  I did the same things.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I did the same things until I finally got it.  It doesn't matter what you say to him.  He's going to do exactly what he wants.
He's not worried about you being his friend.  He is not worried that you don't love him. He's not worried about fighting for your friendship or respecting you.  He is not worried about you caring for him.  You can't guilt him out of this either.
His head is not right.

So you do you now and do exactly what you want.  Just letting him completely go is the best advice I can give you.  He has to come out of this all by himself.  Nothing will influence him, until he is ready to work on himself.

Live "as if" he is not coming back.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 02:27:42 PM by Thunder »
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#50: August 06, 2021, 02:38:38 PM
I agree Thunder.

I have financial things I had to resolve with him. The last conversation he cried again and I just was over it. I have never talked firmly to him. I had to say what I said for me. I don't know what changed, but I think this whole week was just a huge change for me. I realized he is beyond reach and that he isn’t doing anything to help himself.

I do not know who he is. He is no one I recognize and I cant be attached anymore and stay sane. So, you are not harsh in the least. I have been on a roller coaster, but something changes and I feel zen!!! I just don't care. I don't know why, but I am enjoying my time alone. I don't want the anxiety he brings to my life without any benefit to me in return.

Thank you for being HARSH. I wish I could have got here sooner. I feel like I wasted 9 months, but we have to all go through it in our own time. Better 9 months than 9 years.

Now!!! I am going to work on some room remodels and change up my home and build my new life.!!
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 02:42:20 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#51: August 06, 2021, 03:48:10 PM
Thank you, no you have NOT wasted 9 months!!!  I wasted more than that.

It takes us time to get over the shock and get our footing.  That does not happen overnight.  You're doing good.  You will get to detachment, and there will be stumbles along the way, but you will get there.   :)

Just one day at a time.

{{Big Hugs}}
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#52: August 06, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Hi Tornup,

I'm reading your story and finding so many similarities with mine in that my h(whom I refer to as 'the ghost') showed a lot of emotional distress when I would speak to him. The last 2 years of our marriage before Dday he was in a deep depression after his dad died and his mom quickly married the dad's best friend. After dday he basically abandanoned me, both physically and financially, but still wanted me to be his emotional support. I remember the talks, his crying, he would demonstrate distress by hitting his head and asking what was wrong with him. I would cry with him, urge him to get professional help, to go on meds, to go to therapy etc. It was a good year and a half of this. I was so sure I could break through to him, I could help him, even if he didn't want anything with our marriage anymore, as a person I felt I couldn't walk away. As time went by I also saw that he never truly went and got help, he was also doing very well at work and finishing school. And yes, ofc, he was continuing and furthering the relationship with OW, while selling me on his unhapiness. It finally sunk in one day that I was doing all the emotional labor and he was continuing to form a life without me. The realization has hurted more than anything. Especially now that I have been no contact since March. I know nothing about his life. But I doubt he's stopped moving in the direction that he wanted to go in and all that emotional support I provided was just cake for him. It hurts my heart and rips it every time I think of it. But them the brakes. I wish and hope it's different for you but it seems that when we have our type of personalities and they know how much they can count on us for emotional support, we get used and still the discard continues. I send you hugs and love.
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Me: 43
H: 43
Married in 2000
Together since 1995 (high school sweethearts)
DINKS
BD1: Oct 2018
BD2: Jan 2019

"Reclaiming my Time"

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#53: August 06, 2021, 07:46:13 PM
Butterfyinthesky-
It’s hard to say. If someone bet me a million dollars I would have taken the bet my XH would never cheat, but I can see how his weak, insecure and avoidant personality turned to escapism. My XH financially took care of me very well. We did an uncontested divorce. He gave me the house and all equity and also paying it off for the 13 year remainder. I am the sole beneficiary if he dies. 401k, life insurance. Everything! I am financially secure for my life.

Is he having his cake and eating it to? Yep!!! However, he does not contact me. He says he feels it is unfair for him to do that. So, it ultimately has been my fault that I have remained attached until now. I will say he has endured 2-10 hour phone call conversations with me as well. Me doing a lot of talking. Working through what has been done.

He has gone to therapy 2 times including EMDR. When he gets to the point he may make progress he quits. He is not doing well in his job. He is struggling and I feel his job is in jeopardy. I also think now that I look he only had 2 relationships before we married. We married when he was 23 . I am 4 years older. I think the death of our daughter, his father , diabetes 2, Low t and most important his peyroine disease ED really aided in the need to start the EA where women didn't known he couldn't perform. He need to regain his masculinity.

The bottom line is he needs help and I am not a therapist and so I cant help him and you are so right. I have carried his emotional baggage for to long. He right now said his breakdown during the vacation is just going through everything he has done. Everything he failed at. The death of our daughter, the marriage, breaking up the family and his job. Yet, he still is escaping and not giving up the relationship with no responsibilities.

I don’t think he will ever find his way. He is a negative ruminating self blamer. He wants to live in the misery, because he thinks thats what he deserves. He found a subordinate that is fine with his moods, lack of affection, and no sex because he is still a meal ticket.

I have no respect for that. Most importantly I see that he has shown me no respect. MLC and Depression is selfish. Time for be selfish. I gave more than he deserved. I see that now.

Thank you so much for the insight. I learn so much from everyone. I take it all in and it helps me reflect and revaluate my thoughts and actions. Everyone has been a life saver for my growth and survival through it all

 
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 08:08:44 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#54: August 10, 2021, 05:03:42 AM
Well, my daughters wedding draws closer. My XH called to discuss some financials. He was very emotional. He ended up telling me he missed his family. His vacation with the OW a couple weeks a ago was all bad because he was in his head on all his failures. He said he would wait until she fell asleep and then go to the bathroom and cry.

He said he thinks and wants to try with me, but he has done to much damage and doesn't see how he can fix what he did. That he regrets all the bad decisions he has made. That he is going to try weekly therapy. He said he looks back st our relationship and it was good until he messed it up. He wished he would have talked to me.

I told him anything you love is worth fighting for and worth trying to fix and that if he doesn’t want to fight for it then that answers everything. He seems to be at a breaking point and with some bits of clarity. Only time will tell if he will now do the work and actually go into therapy. I hope he does. He did say he feels permanently broken.

I told him we can continue to communicate on kids and financials, but as long as he is with the OW we can not be friends. We can be friendly, but not friends. He said he needs to be alone. I said you should be until you work on yourself, but I dont believe you will be.

He said the only thing that keeps him alive is he hasn’t got everything in order before he goes. I said I think you will be fine. Get into therapy and work it out already. Just do it. What your doing now isn’t working!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#55: August 10, 2021, 11:00:34 AM
Tornup, keep up what you’re doing because it sounds like you are gaining strength and perspective, and learning to focus on yourself and your own needs. Detaching from his emotional roller coaster not to punish him, but to protect yourself - and also because you see that you can’t fix this for him, only he can do that, is such a huge milestone in the healing process.
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#56: August 10, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Thank Curiosity- slowly but surely I am coming out of my own crazy fog of insanity. I am trying to laugh through a lot of the insanity and deep breaths in and out for the rest. One of these days I will keep moving forward without falling back so far!!!

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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#57: August 11, 2021, 04:29:45 PM
TornUp...just stopping by to say you are doing great with keeping just to the facts.  His actions nowhere match his words...that's the bottom line and the end of the rollercoaster 🎢 ride for you.  He's got some decisions to make.  Hang back and let him do some necessary adulting.
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#58: August 11, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Hi Tornup

I hope you are finding some peace.  One of the lessons I learned was to not go shopping for pain. If I thought a question or topic would bring me pain or hurt then I didn't look for answers. One that I can remember was did my ex have a girlfriend. Everyone in my circle wanted to know. Not me however.

My ex also on a few occasions talked about death - being better off dead, wanting to die. Well the minute that would happen. I stopped communicating. I decided it wasn't my job to try and save him. I can't say I did the right thing, I didn't know what the right thing to do was. But I came to terms with the fact that it wasn't my problem - I cried buckets for months and months. All I could do was make sure I was ok and make sure my kids were ok. I had to make sure that I was healthy enough that if the worst happened I could be a strength for my kids.

I hope you can keep moving forward. You need to look after yourself first. Make yourself the priority
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M 39
H 40
Together 20yrs
Married 11yrs
S 10
S 8
BD Jul/Aug 2018

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#59: August 11, 2021, 06:36:36 PM
Beyond Blessed- you are right. He has some adulting to do and decisions to make. He has a very long road ahead if and when he starts with talk therapy again. I’m not sure if my door is cracked for a return. I just feel calm either way. It feels like a good place to be.

Sailing away- I am at a place of I will be fine either way. I am actually feeling pretty good about where I am. I know I have made many mistakes a long the way, but WHERE IS THE HANDBOOK, right?

What I do know is I stood by a deeply flawed man and he knows that .I have no regrets. He will have to figure out if he does. In the mean time I am going to move ahead and start planning my future.
Have my NFL season tickets and 5 games planned with different groups to go with, some vacation planning to do. I feel hopeful and financially secure.





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« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 06:50:23 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#60: August 11, 2021, 10:57:16 PM
You did well in your response, Tornup.
With time and practice, it will get easier to see what is on your side of the street and what no longer is.
And as you detach more, it will get easier to see, as we can, how much of his emotional blah is about him vs how much is about anyone else. And that his feelings are not yours to fix or indeed fixable by you.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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#61: August 12, 2021, 05:12:15 AM
Thank you Treasur-

YES!!! I can feel that!! You know in our last conversation he said he was told not to travel for the rest of the year. He was a little upset about it, because he said traveling helps him not be stuck in one place and is a good distraction. I said, well traveling for work requires going back to all the places we lived as a family and also is what puts you in a bad place.

Bottom line I told him your head is what is in a bad place and you can’t escape it. This is your chance without travel to get into weekly therapy, focus on your work which in turn will help with your feelings of failure. Ultimately only you can get yourself out of this and it will require a lot of work. I did tell him as much pain as he has put me through and it has been a lot I know I will be fine. I would rather be me than be him.

It feels good to know I love my kids and grandson. I have a sense of home and I appreciate the life that has been built. I am so fortunate. There is sooooo much to look forward to. I cant  imagine being in the head space of these MLC’rs and not having any of that. For me that is the detachment. I want to look forward and not stay stuck. Life is GOOD!!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#62: August 12, 2021, 10:06:32 AM
Tornup, I love the evolution I am seeing in your posts. The journey is not a straight line, and certainly if and when you have harder days, give yourself grace and kindness. But overall, the best we can do is try to make each day, each week, each month… a little better than the last, a little more focused on ourselves and our own search for joy and meaning and contentment in our lives. It leaves room for other people - in fact, it relies on them to some degree, because real connections are so important to who we are as humans. But in focusing on ourselves first, we are better able to prioritize connections with people who enhance our path, and to minimize the impact of those who take from us. And from what I can see, you are learning that and living that, a little more each day.
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#63: August 12, 2021, 01:28:54 PM
Thank you so much curiosity. I think coming to the realization that I couldn't let go, because I still had hope and then realizing I am pounding on a wall looking for a door. This is all such a crazy journey. I hope to gain a lot of self reflection.

I still say we all deserve super hero capes! 
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#64: August 13, 2021, 04:41:12 AM
Another crazy turn of events. Had to talk to him tonight on wedding and financials. Conversation turned due to his emotional state.  He answered some tough questions. Thought I would share some of his MLC thinking.

He says he cries about the family and me but he cant see ever coming back.  He has love for me but not in love with me and cant see ever feeling that way about me again. Said when he sees a picture of me that he thinks I look happy, but doesn't look at it and think he misses me like he used to. Now he thinks I look better off without him. He still feels all his failure are wrapped up in the daughter we lost and me and he cant get past it and that is why he can’t come back. He cried the whole time when talking. I did ask if he cried with anyone else. He says not with anyone else, but when he is with others he cries, but finds a way to remove himself to do it not in front of them. I asked what he cried about. He said “ always you and the kids”  He remembers how it was and wants it all back, but knows it cant happen. ( funny how he doesnt miss me but is crying all the time because he misses me and the family)

I said I cant be his emotional support or friend. I also told him that he has a gift I will never have. He knows he had my love. I will always question if anything was real on my end. He said it was real. I still think he loves me but I believe him that he looks at me and sees his failures. He will continue with this OW because she has no ties to all his cheating and failures. I did say you know you carry everything you did with you. He said he doesn't look at it that way.  So, in his mind leaving me he leaves the escapes of the EA’s and failures with me.  He can be someone else with her. Fresh slate. He did say he doesnt love her and he supposes she is using him. He said he doesn’t know if he will ever be able to love again. His depression and MLC were SO CLEAR!! 

This conversation was different. I was calm and unemotional. Looking to disconnect and get those final answers. Some were hard to hear, but also I only half believed. His confusion and Fog are so obvious. It is painful for marriages to end this way. In your partner in total destruction and mind scrambled beyond recognition.  He really does just have to go on his journey and that does not include me and I am so much stronger now to go forward on mine.

I do feel pain for him and sadness for this lost soul that he has become, but I am not his savior. He said if him not being in my life was better for me than that is what we should do. I said I really think it is. I feel sadness for my family and me as well, but I can’t be his friend. I HAVE TO BE MY OWN!
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 05:04:03 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#65: August 13, 2021, 05:42:26 AM
Sounds like you are starting to see the File under F for Futile bits now, Tornup.
And it will get easier with time, it always does.

Acorn talks often about when her h was acting the same way, she learned to listen and say little more than Hmmm and OK. To simply acknowledge she had heard him but to ask no questions, propose no options and challenge nothing unless he said something that was disrespectful or monstering....and then she would just end the conversation. And she taught herself to say very little or nothing about her own thoughts or needs bc actually her h did not care.....she was like a chair to him, someone to talk AT not WITH if that makes sense.

I think you are starting to see the benefits of being more detached and that your h has no ‘answers’ that are useful to you right now. What he says is simply emotional brain vomit really, a peek into his head at a given moment. All of which can be effectively summarised as ‘he’s a sorry mess who feels sorry for himself and wants to talk about it’. All humans have times when we need to vent a bit, we do here on HS  :).....but venting that never gets to a ‘so here’s what I am going to do about this’ stage is of limited use for a healthy human. If you can listen without saying much more than Uh-uh or Hmm or OK.....and feel ok with being a kind of Samaritans service and it doesn’t damage you too much, ok. I suspect you will slowly find that your space for doing that gets smaller and that it doesn’t seem to be as useful to either of you as you first thought. But you’ll know when/if you get to that point....

I remember that my xh sent me a couple of what I used to call 2am thinky emails....a couple just before the divorce, a couple idk maybe 2019? They all essentially said much the same. First para....I don’t know how we got here, I feel sad/depressed/lost. Second para....but there’s nothing to be done about it bc it is how it is. Pre-divorce, I tried to respond. Post-divorce (and his remarriage in my case) I simply had nothing useful to say (and felt no need to try), so I didn’t respond. I literally had nothing to say. And he never once asked how I was, it was just a 2am desire to go ‘bleh’ for whatever reason.

The big message from the cheap seats is that it is a common mistake to believe that your xh’s witterings about what is in his head will give you useful answers to your own (understandable) questions. Well, more useful than A: my xh is an MLC mess. If you look at it rationally though, an adult who is essentially saying ‘I am really unhappy and crying about a situation that I have created and so I am going to just carry on doing more of the same but i’d like a bit of sympathy from you even though I have no concern about how you feel’ isn’t a very useful source of information about anything very much, are they? Consider the source lol is not a bad guide for a lot of life situations imho.....
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 05:49:42 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#66: August 13, 2021, 06:36:02 AM
Treasur- thank you so much. Your insight is always spot on and helps me to reflect and evaluate. My XH doesn’t talk without questions posed. He is a live in his head and never spew kind of guy. I could never just listen and say hmmm, ok, oh? He DOES NOT WANT TO TAlK ABOUT IT!! 

So, that has always been the hardest part. I am an over communicator and his lack of communication is like torture to my soul, or it had been. As time has gone on I have realized more and more that my need for him to give me CLOSURE has just brought more anxiety and frustration.

The closure is in knowing it really is HIM and not me. One thing he does always tell me. He takes all blame, but it is clear he sees no viable path to fix it. He said he just knows he has to do something different. He has to to get to a different place. All while ( like you said) doing more of the same that is adding more to his guilt and destruction.

What a long road. 9 months since atomic  BD, but still not that far out after 30 years. I think I could be in a worse place. I have a lot of work to do, but in the end I feel good about myself. I dont feel lost and hopeless and that is everything. That is the START of the new beginning.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#67: August 13, 2021, 07:30:30 AM
Quote
. 9 months since atomic  BD, but still not that far out after 30 years. I think I could be in a worse place. I have a lot of work to do, but in the end I feel good about myself. I dont feel lost and hopeless and that is everything.

You ARE doing tremendously well at this stage of the process, Tornup.
My 9 months after almost 20 years, I was a bit nuts and dribbling tbh  :).....couldn’t think my way out of a paper bag  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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#68: August 13, 2021, 11:00:22 AM
Treasur-
I just realized you stated your XH messaged you after his remarriage? If I read that right? Again, another proof that they are never happy. Always looking for the next fix to get through and then realizing that wasn't the fix after all. You wonder why they blow up their whole world to continue to be unhappy. Crazy!!     :-\


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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#69: August 14, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
Ran some errands today for my daughter’s wedding next month. Left the store and stopped in the turn lane when I hear screeching and a large suv jumping the center median coming at me. Put my car in neutral hoping that would minimize damage and help movement as I had nowhere to go with 2 lanes of stopped traffic on my other side. Violent hit, 5 cars damaged. My car for as violently as it was hit and my body jolted had not to much major damage. I was badly shaken however.

Police suggested we all call our emergency contacts. My XH is mine. We stayed as each others so our children did not have to be the contacts and it be another reminder/ burden on them as the result of the divorce. Now, I have one other time messaged my XH on an emergency and he never answered, because he was with the OW.

We had a conversation and I said I can remove him. He said no. I said what if one of the kids was in the hospital?? He said I will keep my phone on. Today I send pics of the wreck and nothing!!
HE CAN NOT BE BOTHERED!!!!

I am still baffled by this. He never could not answer the phone when we were together, EVER!!  Now if he had his phone accepting my texts I am sure he would contact me. I mean my grandson could be in the car??? I do not get the phone shut off when with her. Is this part of the escape? Can’t have reality cross over ?? Is it he doesn’t want to have to answer questions to her on who called?? He can’t make up a story? He is a master at that???

Bottom line he today showed he will not be available in an emergency for me for sure,but not even for his kids or his grandson. I am sure at this point there is little left of the man I know. He continues to prove that. If one of his kids got hurt and it was life threatening he would not find out until a day later when he can sneak somewhere to view the phone or when he leaves her. What if it was to late to say goodbye to one of his kids if they were in a life ending accident?

There is absolutely no legitimate reason to turn off your phone and not be available for your kids PERIOD!!! I feel sorry for him, but just more motivation for me to stop worrying about him. He is not worried about anyone but HIMSELF. I think he did me a HUGE favor today

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 02:56:06 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#70: August 14, 2021, 03:59:58 PM
I am glad that you are okay TU.  Sorry about the damage to your vehicle.  I changed over to my Brother and SIL as emergency contacts after the divorce.
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#71: August 14, 2021, 04:06:28 PM
Thank you Treasur-
I dont have family here. Also, that would not resolve the issue of the father of my children asked to be contacted if anyone of us had an emergency, but forget about me. If I can’t get a hold of him to tell him one of our children are in crisis is the main issue. Like I said. We had a conversation and I said I don’t have to contact you on me, but what if something happens to your kids? He said of course I want to know. It is just another instance pre MLC best great father in MLC CANT BE BOTHERED. They are just so ALL ABOUT THEM!!  This however helps me with my disconnect  :)

It’s beyond me. ….yet never suprised!!
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 05:07:37 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#72: August 14, 2021, 05:26:45 PM
Quote
There is absolutely no legitimate reason to turn off your phone and not be available for your kids PERIOD!!! I

They do not just leave us and the marriage, they also leave their kids.

It doesn't seem possible and if you were to confront him he would most likely deny it, they may even believe that they are "still there" but that doesn't seem to be what I have seen over and over again here.

We cannot expect them to be anything that they used to be. They are not. They have left behind all their responsibilities and they will not respond the way that we "hope" they would.

Quote
We had a conversation and I said I can remove him. He said no. I said what if one of the kids was in the hospital?? He said I will keep my phone on. Today I send pics of the wreck and nothing!!

I would not ask him or consult with him on this or really anything that has to do with the kids. You do what is best for your family and identify someone that can be an emergency contact should you need someone.

He unfortunately cannot be that person.

I am glad that you are ok but still it shakes you up.
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#73: August 14, 2021, 06:24:59 PM
Xyzcf- thank you :)
The conversation was had when we were working out the divorce and how we wanted to handle things.  Most people tell me I cant cut him off if something happens with the children.  That does obviously seem correct. With that said, I can’t inform him of anything if his phone is off. So, this is an AHA moment for me that I have to rethink emergencies. He can’t only be available when he wants. His kids are his kids 24 hours a day 365 days a year.

It’s just a sad reality. Yet, I agree. There is just nothing left of the responsible family man that existed. Crazy, how this is the same
Man that has been crying daily over missing his family. Wanting his family back.

Crazy is what crazy does!!
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 06:33:44 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#74: August 14, 2021, 06:42:01 PM
Quote
Crazy, how this is the same
Man that has been crying daily over missing his family. Wanting his family back.

I am going to speak from my own point of view and belief...he very well may want his family back but there is nothing he can presently do to get there...and yes, he is missing his family...but again...someone in crisis, this deep, this empty wound that doesn't seem to have a way out..they cannot do what a "normal" person would do.

I know people who are divorced and they both take responsibility for their children. Not so in MLC.

I would always let him know if younger kids had something serious happen (but that also depends on what the kid wants him to know)...older children actually should tell their dad themselves if they wish..it is not our responsibility to do so.

That might be different for younger children, probably is...but your children are old enough to have their own relationship as they want with their dad.

There are many things my husband has no idea about regarding our daughter, some very serious stuff..there was no point in involving him because he would not have been there for her anyway.

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 06:43:16 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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#75: August 14, 2021, 07:10:06 PM
I agree with that. I think I am referring to serious terms. If my adult child is in serious medical situation they would not be able to inform him. Again, that is the extreme. However, we did lose a child, so maybe I always have the extreme in the back of my head as HE for sure does. That is what started this all. That is what is so insane to me. I do agree with what you are saying about he could still miss his family and be like this. 
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#76: August 14, 2021, 08:06:03 PM
Tornup,

It’s a really difficult realization that they hold wildly different values than us, maybe in lots of cases different values than they used too. It’s a hard thing to grieve the loss of the expectation that the kids would matter to him as much as they do to you. Or that as a parent they would come first or you would make yourself available.
Clearly that is something you can’t no longer expect from him.

When people show you who they are…..believe them. Is there perhaps someone else a close friend or family member that could be your alternate contact. (I had to resort to my sister because there could be no expectation of a timely response or any response at all.)

I’m sorry it is like this. Sending you strength right now.

Courage
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EA discovered 3/31/2019
BD March 31 2019
He left 10/6/2020
Status: I’m done. Stbxh remorseful, texts and apologizes a lot, is in therapy and several treatment teams.
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#77: August 14, 2021, 08:39:54 PM
CourageDH-
It’s crazy he is available and will answer a phone call, message or email at anytime except when with OW which is Saturdays and half Sunday. So we just have to hope that nothing happens to one of his children or grandson at that time.

I can contact my kids if I need to for me.  We were trying to avoid them being responsible for us.  It is just one of those things that not everyone thinks about, but we did and agreed. Not sure why he cant answer with her. I really think it is about the not wanting to break the escape. He is running from his life with her, so his life intercepting that time would make sense.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#78: August 14, 2021, 09:57:13 PM
What a scary situation, Tornup - I am glad you’re doing okay.

I think a situation like this highlights the difference between crisis and just a run of the mill walk away. In that, both people still have their baseline levels of empathy and willingness to take responsibility for the well-being of their kids (and yeah, even with adult kids, I’m sure it’s optimal to not put the responsibility of being the emergency contact if possible). In his case, there seems to be no sense of responsibility - as you said, it’s all about escape.

I am relieved to know you are well.
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#79: August 15, 2021, 12:16:45 AM
First of all, I am glad that you are ok but that must have been a pretty scary experience for you.

You are not alone in realising that your ex/spouse can no longer be relied on even in an emergency. Others here have had the same, even with quite small children or serious emergencies. And tbh you are also at the stage where you are still unlearning old marital muscle memory habits. I still remember being in ER after getting knocked down by a bus (long story  ::) ) a few months post BD when my then h was full of ‘this is just temporary, don’t give up on me, please tell me if anything bad happens to you/cat/family, if you need me etc’. I texted him (once I regained consciousness lol). It took him four days to reply. With a text that said ‘thank you for informing me’.........

Sadly old assumptions and even agreements no longer hold water. It’s painful, but also strangely useful sometimes, when life throws up something to remind us that the ‘rules of the game’ need to change. That we are down the rabbit hole and things need to work differently in this new version of normal. Life gets less confusing once we accept that. Crazy might not be the right word, but disconnected even disassociated perhaps? Although crazy can be good shorthand at this stage lol.

Practically speaking, that means replacing your xh with other contacts.....in emergencies, in small crises, as a source of advice, info or encouragement or celebration. Bc this person is no longer your go-to person or reliable if you do. The whys matter less than the how it is. Which means reconfiguring your own support team....friends, kids, family, neighbours. Sometimes it means getting better at asking others for help or dealing with things on our own. Do what is necessary and best for you. And tbh looking with a clear eye on why you need to contact an ex/spouse at all, bc it may not be your job now or even appropriate, and that you may have an obligation to inform someone in an emergency involving one of your kids say but you are not responsible for if they receive or act on it.

Imho learning to make choices on the current truth as we see it from the information available to us is a very important part of recovery. Bc, whether intentionally or not, we are recovering from a period when we made choices and agreements based on lies or inaccurate information. It is painful bc some of those new truths are not pretty to look at, but I think it is how we create a feeling of solid ground under our feet after a time of living with quicksand. And every small reminder, like this experience, shifts us a bit closer to solid ground....and you’ll get there Tornup. X
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 12:59:40 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#80: August 15, 2021, 05:35:08 AM
First- earlier I replied to Faithwalker as Treasur, so would like to correct that. Thank you FW

Treasur-
 
Quote
every small reminder, like this experience, shifts us a bit closer to solid ground....and you’ll get there

This!!! Yes! I totally agree. Now that I understand he is in MLC crisis and not just depression and he is just not capable of most “agreements” we had ( and so much more)

I am also introspective and reflective to see my errors in my thinking and actions, to figure out the why’s on my inability to fix or change them. In this instance I think it made me realize he will not be the XH that I needed him to be.

It started 30 years ago when he asked me to marry him. I said to him “ Do not wait 30 years and decide you’re going to leave because you sat on issues you didn’t ever discuss with me and never gave me a chance to correct them” ( how crazy to almost to the date to then have it happen) 

 My parents marriage ended with my mother having an affair and leaving my father for a man 20 years younger. We had just built a house with the largest backyard pool in town. We were a well respected family who had it all. It all fell a part. My brother a multi sport star in High School got in to drugs and dropped out of school ( followed by jail in future years) , my sister got married to have her husband cheat on her with one of his students. She has never been the same.

So, I know where my clinging to some small shred of something comes from as does he. This has been my biggest fear in life coming to reality. So, I gave the quick divorce and we made agreements and I can see on all levels none of it will happen. We will have not only a broken family, but a worse situation as far as US as a former couple than my parents.

Funny thing about my parents split. 10 years after my mother left , her BF had an affair on her.  The W said she was pregnant. My mom’s BF left my mom and said he needed to stay with the mother of his child to be. My mother then wrote a letter to my father asking to get back together for the KIDS sake.( we are all adults with our own families now?)  She said he never answered. So, I asked my Dad about it and he said he threw the letter in the trash. He knew it wasn’t sincere. I agree with my Dad. The GF of my Mom’s BF lied about her pregnancy to trap him. When he realized there was no baby he went back to my mom and stayed until her death. I think my mom was just worried about money and struggling alone. When my father passed away she told me he was the love of her life? He definitely was not. Again, she treated him horribly with discard and disrespect when leaving and it always continued with her self pity for a situation she created up until her death. She even tried to tell us shortly before her death that my father was gay and why. Now, does or would it matter if he was? No, but why tell your 50 year old children this when their father is gone and what purpose does it serve now, but confusion.

So, I know so much of my healing or non healing comes from my own past family history and my dire need to not repeat it. Fortunately for me and my kids I am tough as rocks and with that so are they. I am a solid foundation for them, so although what their father is doing may affect them  ( how can it not ) I really never had that. They do. I really do not have to worry about them going off the deep end and “messing” their life up over this as my siblings did.

So, this incident was a wake up call that ALL communication and agreements at this point need to stop or change. I need to carry on and I guess if he ever wants to engage with his children he will or he wont. I think it was a good incident to happen to then reflect on why I felt he needed to know and what do I need to change in my thinking.

I need to let go of what my parents marriage breakup did to our family, because that was their family not mine. Mine is stronger. My kids are like ME. Not my sister and brother who did not weather the storm. I did weather my parents break up. I was a highly rewarded swimmer, home coming queen candidate, cheerleader and then went on to become successful in my career, respected part of the community for my volunteer work.

I was  smart enough in a marital breakdown to agree to a divorce in 90 days after 30 years ( that I handled uncontested myself)  to get the best settlement my lawyers ever seen. Not to be mean, but because what I asked for I truly felt was fair.  I also sat my children down and said if they ever have a question they can ask. They are also fully aware of my settlement, because I wanted to make sure if my XH ever flipped the script on how he talks about me I don't want them to think I took advantage of him. I delivered it in a way that they understood. What I did was what everyone should do. Take care of YOU!!

My kids also know I loved their father. I fought for him and the family. So, they will continue to try and engage with him and I encourage it always. They know if he was thinking straight this would not be the man they are seeing ( or actually not seeing) My family will be fine!!  Do I hope he can find his way out of this for his kids and grandkids? ABSOF’Nlutely!!   However, we will all thrive and survive with what ever happens, because we have a great core of strength!! I’m really so proud of this FAMILY with all it’s faults and weaknesses. This blip in the family structure will not change that!!
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 07:07:23 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#81: August 15, 2021, 06:39:18 AM
Tornup you are sounding better and stronger every day.

Yes you will survive this! You have it in you to make a happy life for yourself, either with him or without him.  You're a strong woman and I'm sure your kids are very proud of their momma.   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#82: August 15, 2021, 07:52:53 AM
I was shocked actually, so many times when he would not respond the way I had been programmed or expected him to respond. It took many of these experiences for me to understand that this person was not the person that I had spent 35 years with. It didn't seem possible that he could be so different and I often tried to see if I was mistaken, if he really was this person but eventually I came to realize that what we had was real...and that now he was on a totally different road. With that came the letting go of any expectation concerning our relationship or our family's.

May I make an observation, just my own thoughts. We cannot rush the process that we must go through in order to resolve the many issues that arise from the destruction of our marriage, our family, the abandonment, betrayal and loss as well as all the other losses that have occurred in out lives (and you have gone through several). Being "strong" may seem like the best path to take but it is ok to also recognize that we don't have to be "strong"...we are allowed to take time to explore everything that this loss means, for as long as it takes.

I think, my own feelings about this is that if we try and push this or rush through "acceptance" , we may not adequately visit the other stages of grief and resolve those stages...of course grief is not linear and we can always go back and forth between the stages of grief. What I thought I had dealt with would rise up again as a new situation arose.

I could be wrong Tornup, but I feel that you are in a rush to tie everything up as quickly as possible and perhaps that will work out for you. I found it took years to work through all the feelings and emotions, actually I still am working through some of these.

You made a comment that I didn't understand very well, or perhaps this is what has me thinking that you are trying so hard to get to a stage of detachment.

Quote
This blip in the family structure will not change that!!

His crisis, the end of your family unit, to me is more than a "blip". In my case, it changed everything about me, the life I wanted, the family I loved, how I saw myself, what my dreams were......

I know that you will be entering therapy soon. In therapy, time is taken to explore all this, and the meaning it has for us in the present and the future.

Take good care of yourself!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#83: August 15, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Xyzcf-

Maybe that “blip” came off as trivializing the situation. Of course I would not be here and going into therapy if I felt I could strong arm my way through with my super hero powers. Although, I do wish I could be “Bewitch” and twitch my nose to the future where I have worked through it all. I know that it is not possible. I do feel I have spent the last 9 months dedicated to working through the pain and loss. Not once have I sugar coated it. I felt every ounce of it and allowed it to happen.

I do feel a change however. I feel I am getting to a more disconnected stage. That is scary for me. I REALLY do/did not want to let go and I think my journalling reflects my turmoil in wanting to let go and hang on. I feel I am FINALLY understanding that I can let go and move on and with that it doesn’t have to be I gave up. I just think In my head knowing his ability to compartmentalize and detach it most likely will be the end. So, I have been fighting for us both and that is a no win situation.

I think all along I have been in a push and pull with myself. Not knowing what the right thing to do with every twist and turn with myself. I go back to the fact that I am just a person that lives in reality. That is able to accomplish anything I set my mind to, but I have no control here ( when it comes to him) I truly can only control myself. There was something in me that kept thinking I could reach him. I can’t and honestly I am just pushing him more into oblivion with my efforts.  I believe I will mourn this loss for ever, but I believe for the first time I will survive it and find happiness. Even though there will always be moments of sadness.

Honestly, I think I have just been praying for him to “come to his senses” I didn’t want to believe he was in as big of a crisis as he is, but HE IS. In the end it is the loss of control of my life and knowing that there is nothing I could have done to change it. It is not me. It is all about him. That is finally giving me some freedom. It has been a heavy burden to carry. As many have said YOU CANT LOVE THEM OUT OF THIS

I really am just NOW starting to get that!!! Just now and it truly would not have happened without finding this site and all of your insights. I have no idea where I would be. But, I am so THANKFUL for all of you!! ❤️
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 09:17:31 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#84: August 15, 2021, 08:29:21 AM

I go back to the fact that I am just a person that lives in reality.

This is really all you need to be.

Sometimes leaving that stage of “active mourning” can feel extremely scary because it feels like we are completely letting go. When in reality, we actually do need to completely let go of what was. To not let go and remain in that stage of active mourning for an extended period of time will render a stuck and hinder our own growth. I believe almost all of us will always feel the loss of what was, but that’s different than actively grieving a loss, which takes up energy from living our own lives forward. We’ll always miss what was, but the goal is to not let it impede what could be ahead of us. Jmho
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#85: August 15, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
Thanks Tornup. That is why this site is so good because we can dialogue and explore what this all means..and each of us are different in how we get through this. You will have many different points of view to consider and you take what works for you and discard those that don't.

Quote
I feel I am FINALLY understanding that I can let go move on and with that it doesn’t have to be I gave up.

Indeed. Understanding this is key. The fear of "giving up" was very strong in me too and it took me a long time to realize that to two are not incompatible.

Quote
I believe I will mourn this loss for ever, but I believe for the first time I will survive it and find happiness. Even though there will always be moments of sadness.

I too will mourn this loss forever. I realize and accept that.

But yes, as humans we are amazingly resilient and happiness, peace, contentment and good times are there still.

Thank you for diving further into what I said. I did not want to say something that would be misconstrued but I think you understood what I was trying to get at.

Have a lovely Sunday.
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 08:58:09 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#86: August 15, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Nas & xyzcf-

Exactly. Just always trying to move forward with all your amazing insight and advise. I will continue to slip and fall, but I keep getting up and the falls are not as hard. Thank goodness!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#87: August 15, 2021, 11:18:39 AM
Nas & xyzcf-

Exactly. Just always trying to move forward with all your amazing insight and advise. I will continue to slip and fall, but I keep getting up and the falls are not as hard. Thank goodness!!

Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.  You're doing brilliantly.  You are feeling and acknowledging the emotions as they come, anddealing with them accordingly.  This is the path forward.  You are now accepting that what you need, may not be what you want, but what you want definitely isn't what will serve you best...and that is a one-sided relationship of some taking and never giving anything useful in return.
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#88: August 15, 2021, 02:37:29 PM
BB- I really feel like I am. My daughter, future SIL and grandson came over and even with some libations with our swim time the  focus was on them and we had a great time. I feel focus and shifting away from the XH and back to me and what remains. It really feels good. It felt good when my SIL was talking about his own family conflicts and said he wished his mom could see how a real adult parent acts like. I realized then that the last 9 months even though I have felt I was losing, it I must not seem to be to them. That was a great relief.   Thank you so much for the encouragement
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 03:39:14 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#89: August 16, 2021, 06:34:56 AM
I wanted to share a interesting conversation

My D30, FSIL  and I had an interesting conversation yesterday about my XH her Dad. She said I think people just change. I think he was who he was and now he is who he is. My FSIL said I think he always had this in him ( character flaws etc), but the loss of D14 and F brought it to the surface.

I think it’s a little of both. I think there was always an identity issue. He often took thoughts and conversations and repeated them as his own. I think tragedy can throw anyone in a tail spin, but someone in midlife with insecurities and not a true sense of self is a whole other story. I know I wondered why now??  We have achieved success, kids are grown and we are free to enjoy life. Are they scared, is it mortality issue, boredom, sewing those wild oats and so they run in to MLC.

I still feel in conversations since the split that he is defining himself through me in subtle ways. I hear my train of thought repeated back to me.  Maybe that is where the clinging comes from. The need to still have that foot in the door of family and familiarity and that old input he is used to that helped define his identity. While he also is trying to start a new relationship with no ties to the past or regrets or failures to address. Yet, he doesn’t want to lose his anchor on top of all the life changes.

I feel his struggle on “missing everything about his family” while he bolts to the nearest office or bathroom to breakdown in a flood of tears is rooted in his lost identity and how it is so tied to the FAMILY.  He has no real internal identity aside from how he saw himself in relation to me and the family life. So, it seems he was possibly always lost in the relationship to some extent.

It was an interesting conversation that made you go, hmmmm. What it clearly brought to our conclusion is we all agreed that it is for him to figure out and that so far with D14 being gone 12 years that he has not made that effort. We all agreed that we don’t know that he ever will. 

My D30 also stated that she DOES NOT FEEL SORRY FOR HIM. She said I lost my Sister when I was 17 years old. He was in his 40’s. He is a grown man that can go to therapy and help himself. I will not get sucked into his self pity. It brought to mind the old saying “from the mouths of babes” when they are young we would say. That rings true to her today at 30. They speak the truth, but with grown thoughts, insight and intelligence.



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« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 07:30:09 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#90: August 17, 2021, 11:16:25 AM
I shared this on another thread but wanted to also share here. Any newbies that have the not read shock sis on shockandawe thread on a MLC’r that explains her experience in MLC and out is a great read of information

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11177.0
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 11:34:07 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#91: August 17, 2021, 12:22:01 PM
Yes I agree Tornup, she was a great help for many in understand the mind of a MLCer.  She was honest when answering questions and always said this was just her crisis, her story, so she couldn't speak for anyone else....and she never blamed her XH for moving on and marrying someone else.  She said those where her consequences.

We have only had maybe 2 or 3 recovering MLCer's who joined this site so it's pretty rare.
Very interesting to get a chance to pick their brain about how they thought or felt about things while in their crisis.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#92: August 17, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Tornup,

Another good thread was from another recovering MLCer, Denjef31.
Her H went into his crisis, which triggers hers...which does happen.

I only linked two of her threads but I think they may be very helpful.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8451.0
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Love and Insanity continues
#93: August 17, 2021, 03:01:38 PM
Thank you Thunder. I am seriously thinking of taking some psych classes at the college. I am totally enthralled with the mental mind  and it’s reactions to life experiences. I am going to dive into these you shared tonight! I can not learn enough!!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#94: August 17, 2021, 03:55:02 PM
That's funny Torn, I have always been interested in psychology. I find the mind  fascinating.

I think I have taken out every book I could on psychology from the library years ago.
From General Psychology, to Child Psychology, to Criminal Psychology.

I bet you would enjoy some glasses.  Unfortunately there is nothing on Midlife Crisis, but maybe some day it will be recognized by the medical community.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#95: August 18, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Thunder- I know MLC is not even recognized by many professionals. When seeking one to start therapy with it was the one thing was a must. I start in September and who I am starting with does believe in MLC. Very thankful. I also am going to look into the classes despite that. The way the mind handles trauma etc. Always has been fascinating to me. Maybe this is the “ everything happens for a reason”  I was put in the situation I am :)

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=483.0

I want to share stayed Husbands letter he wrote to give some insight on the Man’s MLC’r mind. Again, no situation is the same, but what interesting  insight into what they go thru and how  they think when you are trying to make sense of it all.
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 09:39:49 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#96: August 18, 2021, 10:47:05 AM
Tornup, I love that you are seeking out the resources on this board as well as finding a therapist who seems well positioned to understand a big part of what is going on in your life. I had a huge list of threads from this site bookmarked, along with several other articles about MLC. I just deleted the whole folder about a week ago, but those were an absolute lifeline to me. At first, I might have used them to try to interpret my W’s actions. But mostly, they just served as a reminder that other people out there were navigating crises of their own, and I wasn’t alone, and the threads were proof that as an LBS you can not only survive, but thrive. That, to me, is the goal - learning to thrive, regardless of what happens with the marriage and the MLCer. And there are examples of it here in every thread. It doesn’t always look the same - we’re not always happy or excited, not even always at peace. But we are living our true, authentic lives and finding purpose and the whole gamut of human emotions. And that’s pretty amazing.
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#97: August 18, 2021, 11:22:58 AM
Curiosity- exactly!!! When you have felt at some points that ONLY YOU are going through this craziness, getting any insight is clarifying. You have to learn to pick out what you can relate to and also understand situations, circumstances and the human mind are all unique. There is ABSOLUTELY no text book to determine how anyones story will go. Just help to maybe get through and better understand the pages in your 📕 book as you get through your story.

Each of our stories is a mystery, isn’t it!! I have always loved a good biography and non-fiction bool, so no wonder why I am not a true fan of my own story right now. However, as I grasp on to more knowledge and understanding the more control I feel of my life and that everything is going to be just fine!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#98: August 18, 2021, 12:10:36 PM
Reaching that point of “I’m going to be just fine,” is perhaps the biggest revelation of all. I’m not sure any real healing can happen before that - up until that point, we’re all just in survival mode.

Kudos to you on really digging in and doing the work - life is so much better when you’ve built that foundation for yourself.
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#99: August 20, 2021, 10:44:44 AM
My daughter is getting married in 30 days. She messaged me to tell me she got a gift from her Dad from her registry and she was impressed because he always has her purchase things for him on line. She then went on to tell me he bought himself a $200 coffee machine. I asked her again, please don’t tell me what he is buying her!!!!! She said maybe he is buying it for himself. I said NO!! He does not drink coffee and we had an inexpensive one at the condo. It apparently wasn’t good enough for her.

Of course then my mind goes to is she coming there? Moving in? or did he buy to give her for her own place??   He bought it the weekend after their 11 day vacation that he just spent 1k in clothing for her on top of the vacation. The weekend he stayed at his condo in his own thoughts. Same weekend he over paid me in alimony by 1k.

Now,I was money frugal. Always, how much is it? We don’t need it!!! How much does the MLC money spending have to do with maybe feeling restricted from the married life, just living life without thinking, looking for affirmation ( white knight ) thank you or what is it with spending money like water?? Totally out of character for them?

My anxiety lasted a HOT SECOND however and then I was over it. Normally, I would have found a reason to call and bring it up to him . I now realize just how far I am from just a few weeks ago!!! I still need people to stop feeding me info on him and it’s getting better. The good part is I don’t feel the need to call and It doesnt linger with me even if it does temporarily rattle my cage.

Still the question at hand is… what is it with the MLC’r need to spend a lot of money?? Is it feeling powerful and in control when nothing inside them is?? Would love anyone’s thoughts
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 10:52:00 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#100: August 21, 2021, 07:56:51 AM
Don’t we all feel like what megagirl said in 2018
Quote
the counsellor sees me as the root of a tree holding everyone up including H even though he doesn’t see it.

I so feel this!! There is some strength in that. Actually there is more than some strength. There is total strength in that. Being thrown into a crisis from someone else's crisis,
yet surviving and feeling empowered and more in control as the months go on and being the root for your family to continue to grow. ❤️ 🌳
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 08:20:22 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#101: August 21, 2021, 09:02:49 PM
Tornup I too wonder about all that spending. With mine I think it is a combination of appearances which I guess could be a control thing and a celebration of having less responsibilities.

He acts like a teenager with his first job ready to say to the world hey look at me, this is my money to do with as I please! MIL is one to show love by spending money and I think that is playing a part as well.

I wonder if they will eventually realize how much money they wasted and what else it could have been used for.
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S17, SS18, SS19
Married 1/1/2010
H moved in with his parents 5/15/20

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#102: August 22, 2021, 02:30:52 PM
Hi Tornup,

My W was always a spender so unsure if the MLC had an impact.   Last year she spent even more than usual as she was deep in her crisis as I think MLCers try to fill their life with things and experiences as they work through their depression.  What's interesting now is that my W seems more focused on money then ever before.   I don't know if she's cut back on her spending but maybe she is finally learning to budget and save.  Time will tell.

HF
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W - 42
M - 46
Together 19 years, M 17
2 kids
BD - July 2020
W Left Home - January 2021
W Filed for D - May 2021

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#103: August 26, 2021, 07:37:28 PM
Today I refinanced OUR house to be MY house. I asked for all equity in the home in the divorce and he agreed. The home has 75% equity. I took a 10 year loan, but plan to pay it off in 5. That will allow me to than focus on my next plan and that is to have a small lake home next.

It may be easier to start over new. Move to a new home with no memories, but I love this house.  If this all would not have happened we would have stayed in the house.He may have changed course, but I am not changing what my plans were here.

As I floated in the pool I thought to myself….. I still have everything. Nothing has changed in my life except that he is not here. This beautiful life, home, kids and grandson are still all here. It is sad he is escaping this beautiful life we created, but I am more than happy to remain in it.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#104: August 28, 2021, 03:22:12 PM
You are one of the lucky ones, TU.  My xH forced the sale of our home and I couldn't have afforded to stay there even if I had wanted to.  We built that home and it was supposed to be a place for the kids to grow up and then bring the grandkids home to visit.  It makes me so sad that it's someone else's legacy now.

And yes, he is missing out.  I'm glad that you were able to get such a great financial outcome!  I wish this were the truth for all LBSers.
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Survival Instructions for Newbies

The Apology Every LBS Deserves

My Journey

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

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#105: August 28, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
FW-

the great financial agreement came from his fast need to escape and his crisis and not thinking straight. I am more and more convinced. If I had waited we would not be divorced. He would mot been able to do it, but I couldn’t take that chance. His turmoil made me realize his thought process could not be trusted.

My lawyer said. People get remarried. If he comes out of this you can rebuild the relationship. If he doesn’t you don't know how long he will be agreeable to this and how much the OW getting in his eat will change it. She was RIGHT!!  I think he told the OW he was separated and in process of divorce and she started to pressure to go out and do things and he panicked.

The story as all of our stories continues to reveal itself. He is more miserable and missing his life, but cant climb out of the tunnel. I do wish all LBS were better financially protected. I have seen the other side and it makes me very thankful
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#106: August 28, 2021, 08:01:21 PM
Yes, I think it's important for LBS's to try and get the best financial deal while the MLCer is still feeling lots of guilt and not too far into the crisis yet.

Unfortunately, too many of us are shell-shocked and trying to fight for a marriage that was over at BD.

The ability to rebuild later for those who can reconcile will come, but I think for many, the devastation that happened, including how they were financially treated will have a greater impact on not wanting to reconcile down the road.
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Survival Instructions for Newbies

The Apology Every LBS Deserves

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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

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#107: August 29, 2021, 11:14:36 AM
Tornup, I'm so glad you protected yourself and your family in the areas that truly matter the most, financially being one of them.   None of us here wanted a divorce straight out of the gate, but those of us with panic-stricken MLC'ers had little choice,  and we were smart to put our emotions aside at that time.  The best advice I gleaned was to act business -like and take all the emotion out of it....and do it while he still felt guilty enough to be agreeable.  Today, I am more financially sound and strong, than at any point during my M.  Xh was a spender, and I lived well withing my (our) means only to come to the realization after the M, that xh's spending habits were way more selfish and frivolous than I knew.  Just another thing I'd turned a blind eye to in order to keep the peace and his drama to a minimum.

I've read far too many stories here of those having the opposite outcome, and suffering greatly because of it.  It turns my stomach that anyone could so callously do that to another, but even more so that it was someone's spouse and father.  What they choose to do to their families is truly the epitome of selfishness and cowardice.


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#108: August 31, 2021, 04:45:43 PM
Well, nice and to the point email conversation on dogs needing some watching. No drama. This I can handle!!!

Me-Can you watch the dogs weekend of Oct 10 & 11. Games is Sunday night, so need Sunday and part of Monday.  I really dont want to put Bailey in a daycare with his anxiety etc. I can drive them up and drop off or we could meet half way? Or if your in town you could swing by and pick them up and then I could get them the following week?
XH-
Yes, I will watch the dogs. We can figure out the best way as it gets closer.  
Me-
Ok, sounds good. Thanks
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#109: August 31, 2021, 11:17:08 PM
I’d have a back up plan for the dogs bc these MLC folks are notoriously unreliable about this kind of arrangement. His ‘yes, talk about the details later’ imho is not a definite plan to an MLCer; it’s an idea  ::)
And tbh, Tornup, I would be asking myself why I was contacting an xh who lives some distance away about any kind of dog care....and if it served me to see/speak to him about such things now that I was single with my own separate life. He left the dogs too practically speaking when he left his old life for a new one. Jmo.
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 11:20:44 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#110: September 01, 2021, 05:07:00 AM
Treasur-
I see where your coming from. I emailed him, so we did not speak. We have arrangements in the divorce on dog care. He pays for half of all their vet bills and if they are put up in a kennel he would pay for it as well. So, I would have to reach out to him to pay also. My oldest dog is now having issues with anxiety and also feel dementia. He is a large lab and not easily transported as he also has claustrophobia. My XH works in the city I am in for work, so he can schedule to be here or pick them up.

I have reached out to my sister to see if she can come stay with the dogs as I am going to be gone with all my adult children as well. My preference would be to have that happen. So, he is honestly my back up plan. Either way it was a brief and to the point conversation by email and with my daughters wedding in 2 weeks I feel it was a nice ice breaker for that event to not be so awkward.

My goal is not to cut him out of my life. My goal is to move forward and be unaffected. I felt that interaction is exactly what I hope for when it has to occur. Short and to the point. As long as I dont feel the urge to pick up the phone or cry I feel I am headed in the right direction.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#111: September 01, 2021, 05:45:03 AM
Ah, I see, Tornup. My apologies....I should have known you would be too smart to not have an alternative plan.  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#112: September 01, 2021, 06:30:05 AM
Quote
My goal is not to cut him out of my life. My goal is to move forward and be unaffected.

I too had a lab that was both blind and had dementia in her last year or so. I preferred to have someone stay with her at my house when I would go away.

I am in favor of having contact with my husband and have done so for most of the 12 years since he left our marriage. There are many reasons for this, including our daughter but much of it has to do with forgiveness and acceptance that whatever happened to him is something that I see as a crisis, and I don't see it as his purposefully setting out to hurt me (although the hurt has been immense).

I also have found that my healing was dependent upon being able to not be shaken by his contact with me.

I am standing for our marriage so that also impacts how and why contact remains between us.

As always, please listen to your own inner voice. You have protected your finances, you are living your life and making plans for your future. He is broken and he knows you are the "lighthouse".

Have you ever read  Gary Chapman's Five languages of love? I wonder if your husband's love language is "acts of service"....sometimes these interactions allow us to see what is going on in them and sometimes it's an opportunity to treat them as a human being who is very "mixed" up. When I read the testimonies of those MLCers who are able to articulate how they felt during the crisis, it speaks to me of a darkness that I cannot imagine.
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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#113: September 01, 2021, 06:43:51 AM
Thank you Xyzcf -
I see the crisis. I have spent the better part of the last 3 months reading from MLC’r and their inside look at the “fog”  I feel I do have a great insight now. Wish I would have understood earlier. My intent is to keep detaching. It has been a process and feel a process I am progressing with. I do have to see him at the wedding in 2 weeks so that has some anxiety involved.

I try hard not to have the kids be an in between. I also coming from a horrible parents divorce DO NOT want that for my kids and grandkids. I hope if he never comes out of this that at least we are civil. My parents were not.

I have seen the love languages. I need to read that again. I do think he needs a lot of validation due to insecurities and he likes helping as it makes him feel useful and needed. There is no doubt my XH is still in the tunnel, but starting to have moments of clarity and actually now starting to break away some from OW. This is the perfect time for me to back off and let him work through his crisis. I agree also that he knows I am his lighthouse, so that is there and it would be on him to reach out if he ever gets to that place. Each MLC’r is different and I am navigating through it all with so much great help from all of you.

I am trying to in the end do what is best for me and then hope that if he ever works through his crisis and realizes the mistakes that I am still open to a return. 

I have also seen a lot of comments from you in the forum, but have never found a link to your story. Is there one?
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 07:43:39 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#114: September 02, 2021, 09:08:07 AM
I started Therapy yesterday and it went good. Really like her. She is very calm. Friendly. I pretty much went through my story yesterday, so I did most talking. She said. You seem like you really fought for him. You come off as a very intelligent, compassionate, and reasonable person in your thinking. Someone who has been through a lot in life, but still very strong. A survivor. You seem to put everyone before you. I can tell you have done a lot of work before coming here. What strikes me most is that you seem to have been betrayed in your life a lot by people closest to you and most recently the one you should have been able to trust the most.

That is for sure!!!  I think having worked at the same company with my X for decades and then him have EA with 3 people I knew feels like betrayal from him and them. It is beyond OW could do that knowing the W has lost a child and the pain already. Hard to fathom. I think for me the biggest betrayal is a H that put me through everything two times. Seeing my pain once and cared so little for me that he did it again.  What I do realize is the OW are nothing, morally corrupt.  They are an escape of the mind for the X and no matter what they can not compare to you. That I am sure of now. Somehow that eases some of the pain. It is not about us, but all about the MLC crisis of his mind
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« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 09:25:40 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#115: September 02, 2021, 11:05:32 AM
She said:  You come off as a very intelligent, compassionate, and reasonable person in your thinking. Someone who has been through a lot in life, but still very strong. A survivor.

Of course you are, we knew that.   ;D ;D
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#116: September 02, 2021, 11:36:22 AM
Glad you found a therapist that you liked and that she recognized the work that you have already done.

I guess I just wanted to say that sometimes it's ok not to be "strong". That too is part of the healing process and recognizing and dealing with everything that we experience because of this betrayal is essential. Whatever we feel, this has been a traumatic experience and sometimes what we think intellectually is not how our bodies respond physiologically.

I also wonder about the OW's ..they are very aware that this person is married, has a family. I could never enter into an affair with a married or otherwise attached person....I just couldn't but my husband is actually the one to blame really...not her. He takes the responsibility for what he did to our family.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#117: September 02, 2021, 12:12:50 PM
Thank you Thunder :) getting stronger by the day
Xyzcf- I think during the crying and why are you doing this stage with X was my weak moments. I have never been so vulnerable in all my life and still cringe over it, but it’s a process as you said. None of us get out without a few if not many scars!!
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#118: September 03, 2021, 04:58:33 AM
Tornup, I think I like your therapist better than mine. "Well, it's probably easier for W to have sex with someone else because she views it as meaningless." (I don't know that W is having sex, but assume so.) And, "MLC isn't in the book."

I decided to stop going to him after I told him I found a condo I like, but would like to get a little more use out of the house first. "You know, that property won't be available for ever." No spit, Sherlock. I understand how real estate works. But I can't sell this place without an arrangement from the W.

Sorry to vent on your thread. But, I feel like I'm in the same place you are. This is definitely not the W I married, and the change was so fast compared to the length of our relationship and her actions so heartless compared to her past words and actions, that there must be a cause, be it MLC, hormones, or depression. The real one is in there somewhere.

Hang in there,

JB

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#119: September 03, 2021, 05:41:35 AM
Johnny Bravo-

I appreciate your thoughts . It’s really a violent attack on our being isn’t it? To be left and feel like your are someone that doesn’t exist as meaning in their life. That you don’t know who they are, but they don’t know who they are either.  How scary that must be for them. He can try to keep it locked down, but at some point it will all have to come to the surface. Either way they are in there somewhere.

It is just so painful to watch them self destruct. Not to be able to have a “normal “ conversation. Where is my BEST FRIEND???? We are dealing with a walking death. They walk the earth, but they don’t exist at the same time. It’s down right painful. With that said. I know I am growing each day and for the better. I wish this on no one, but I am learning more about myself and hoping that with what ever the outcome I will be a better person for it.

RCR wrote something many years back that rings true and I can see now
Quote
Your biggest obstacle right now is your Self. You keep worrying about what you can or won’t do—forgive and trust and wondering what the lesson is. Sometimes—perhaps often—the lessons do not reveal themselves; they are not overt. Do you notice the daily changes in your appearance? Do you notice the changes in your appearance from 25 years ago? Those changes happened moment by moment, day by day and yet in the small portions they were unnoticeable. It is the same with developmentally emotional and mental changes. They happen and are not necessarily meant to be noticed.

I think this is true for the LBS and the MCR. We want to see these huge AHA moments, but I think we have to move forward and know that the moments are small and will reveal themselves when they do. When the work has been done and we cant anticipate or force it or control it. That is our hardest lesson. At least for me. we cant control anyone but ourselves. We cant love them out of this or fix it with our words.

What we can do is trust that we showed love and they know the love and care was real.  Once they do their personal work they can choose to come back and see if we are willing to let them love us again. That is how I am looking at it now. He will be lucky if I am still standing if and when he is ready and if I am not,  then so be it. I have few regrets. I showed enormous love, compassion and in my weakest moments my pain and vulnerability. All from a place of ❤️ LOVE. Hopefully, if the fog clears they will see that precious gift. It’s rare. The LBS is a gift to them. They can accept the gift Nd be thankful or continue to not do the work and not appreciate it. I do believe at some point the gift will be reopened. No matter what then outcome!!



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« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 07:26:56 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#120: September 05, 2021, 06:27:51 AM
So my daughters wedding is in 2 weeks. She told me her Dad called her last week to ask how things were going and she complained her brother would not give a speech at her wedding. He said “ you want your s28 to give a speech and not me? She said “ you said you didn't want to?” He said I have 3 weeks to figure out what I will say. I will.

So first off. 2 weeks ago I told him we could not be friends at this time as I was not getting and friendship in return and as long as he was with OW I didn’t feel it was healthy for me. I needed to work on my own healing. I did say I hoped he got into therapy and worked on his relationship with his kids before the distance was to much to repair. So, very happy to see he called her and didn't just text. Also, that he offered to give a speech.

I honestly don’t know what to make of it. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle, but now he is. He is still with OW and sees her on weekends and recently booked some trip through a travel agent, so much nicer than the drive to somewhere. So, appears he is upping the game on spending and activities with the OW.

Very anxious for this wedding. Such a small intimate wedding. First time I will be around and see him for 4 months. My brother is coming and I have not seen him since my Dad’s death in 2005. I do feel after this wedding I can stop worrying so much about where his head is because it wont affect me, but with the wedding coming up it has been hard to totally disconnect as I am worried about  it for my daughter and the event in general and obviously for me and how I will handle it all.

Not sure how we got here, but no turning back and the future will show where we end up in this crazy MLC journey. I think the hardest thing for me besides not recognizing this man is that I seem to be the most dispensable person in his life and a short time ago I was the most important. That is and will continue to be the hardest part. I think the loss of just even the friendship and to feel so disconnected from him and that there are conversations he will have and moments with my kids that I will not know or be a part of. I really hate that loss of family the most.
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 06:49:27 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#121: September 05, 2021, 06:45:17 AM
I don’t know if it is practically possible, Tornup, but anxiety from my experience is easier to chew in small pieces. And often turns out not to be as awful as your fears. Could you arrange to meet your xh, perhaps even with your daughter, for a quick coffee the day before the wedding? No big talks, just a quick superficial chat, so that seeing him for the first time is not wrapped up with the wedding? Maybe do the same with your brother even? Just a thought.

Yes, the ‘new normal’ is a strange and painful thing. That feeling of invisibility or discarding takes some adjusting, doesn’t it? Can’t imagine what your xh will say in his speech  ::) and hard job for any LBS to go to any wedding tbh, let alone a family wedding with an MLCer present. Do you have friends or family there as cheerful if silent support and distraction so you know folks have your back? Please know though that you are not the first LBS here to have to face this challenge.....and to get through it.

But i’d encourage you to tell your brain....as others here have done....that the core of your family remains even if your xh has removed himself from it. Not much different actually than if he had died. The shape of your family would be different, but you and your kids and their partners or kids would still be a family.  Bc our poor battered little brains do tend to listen to what we tell ourselves..... :)

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 06:49:53 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#122: September 05, 2021, 07:00:51 AM
Thank you Treasur-

My XH and I always planned on meeting up before the wedding for a lunch, but things constantly change. I don’t think that will happen. He is in town this weekend and easily could have reached out. I have swimming and drinks the day before at the house and I will see him then at some point.

My brother lives in another state and is flying in, so will just be seeing him the say before. I am sure I will do fine. The wedding is family only . 40 people and we are at the same table. He did not want to sit with his mother and siblings?? I know my siblings will all joke and chat with him like nothing has happened. I just need to make sure I dont tip a fee drinks to many. Have to keep my wots about me.  Lol

You know on the treating it like a death. I think if he passed away I would not have to mourn the missed moments and conversations and hear about him from my kids. That would be a situation that is not in anyones control. This situation is in someones control, but it is the MLC that controls it. I know in time it will get easier. It already has started to get easier, but still triggers. I am hopeful with the wedding past us that I can truly just move on and live my life to the best of my ability.

I do hope he wakes up some day. I don’t know if I would ever want him back. I am starting to think I don’t at all, but I really would like a friendship for the years invested and my kids. I think I really see that more as the hope for the future. I told him that on out last conversation. He cant be friends today or even tomorrow, but I am hopeful in the future, but he has to get help and show the level
of respect I have shown him for that to happen. I told him right now I don’t recognize anything about who you are. He said I dont either.

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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#123: September 05, 2021, 07:32:44 AM
Our daughter was married 8 years ago. The wedding was in Canada, I live in the US and he was living in another country.

Family was invited but I did not feel I wanted to invite any of our friends. I knew it would be a tough day.

This was my daughter's day and I embraced all the beautiful things that were a part of their special day. And there were many beautiful moments. Over the years, my husband and I  had been in contact a bit and I think that contact made it a bit easier,  especially for occasions such as her wedding.

He lived far away from both of us so physical contact was infrequent.

I have a really good relationship with my daughter and her husband (thank goodness he is a lovely guy) and we are somewhat of a family but without my husband, her dad, it's not quite the same. A death would be different..this has far too many other emotions/feelings/meanings/pain attached.

I recently was able to see our daughter (17 months apart due to COVID) and I stayed with really good friends from 45 years ago, who were great friends of my husband and I before either of us had children. My son in law has never met his father in law before he was in crisis.  There were stories told from when we used to party together, lots of laughter and more stories of the man he used to be......a couple of days later, my daughter spoke to me about how happy she was that her husband was able to hear those stories from our friends, because although she has told him what her dad used to be like, he's never seen that and it made her happy to hear from others, that her memories are real.

One thing I was told a long time ago, I think when we were going to her college graduation and I had not seen him for 19 months, was to treat him like a long lost relative that I did not know very well....that helped me actually because indeed, I do not know this person at all.

I was very grateful to have people from HS at that time help me through that time. It really helped me to get through such an emotional time and be able to enjoy what was a special occasion in my daughter's life.

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 07:42:40 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#124: September 05, 2021, 08:11:14 AM
Xyzcf-

So your XH has never awakened at all? I guess if there were glimpses you wouldn’t know because he not around and if he is it is awkward since he hasn’t. I am sure he feels like a distance relative to his own family. It’s the most tragic aspect of it all. They leave the love that could be their savior. I know I have asked you before, but not sure I ever saw a reply. I have looked for your story, but never found it. Did you journal tour story?
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2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#125: September 05, 2021, 08:12:34 AM
Sorry about all of this, Tornup.

Paraphrasing a quote I saw somewhere, "One of the hardest things you will ever have to do is grieve the loss of a person who is still alive." There really is no closure other than the closure you can give yourself. I can sit here and type and sound normal and collected, but the truth is different.

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#126: September 05, 2021, 08:29:14 AM
Quote
I have looked for your story, but never found it. Did you journal tour story?

BD was 12 years ago.

I think my many many threads are archived but yes, I wrote extensively about what happened. Then at some point, I think I was always a bit like this, protective of him, and I didn't want to share details anymore on an open forum.

I knew early on that I would stand for our marriage and I am surprised at this except to say that God has told me to do this. The only way I can explain it.

Quote
So your XH has never awakened at all?

He lives his life the way he wishes. He remains in contact but it is sporadic and superficial. He knows he is welcomed to come home.

We were married 32 years prior to BD. On our 30th wedding anniversary he gave me a sapphire eternity band (which I wear on my left hand) with a card that said "thank you for the best 30 years of my life. I can't wait to spend to next 30 years with you".

Our marriage, our shared values and beliefs were real. He was my best friend, my lover, my partner in a very exciting life..I miss him every single day.

I accept that his life is his to live as he chooses. It took me many many years to get "well" and a very good therapist who helped me deal with the trauma and find myself again.

In my experience, from being in contact with others from years ago on HS, we heal but this will always be with many of us. How could it not be? We were together for 35 really good years, and I am grateful for those years.

I still love him. That has not changed and in some ways that love matters more now than ever...for I see him as a very mixed up man who totally lost who he once was.
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 08:32:27 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#127: September 05, 2021, 09:14:22 AM
Johnny Bravo- Yes, I can even believe what I am saying one minute and not the next.  I do believe only we can heal ourselves and in this circumstance we do have to find out own closure. Easier said than done. Time and distance is the key. It’s a crazy circus!

Xyzcf- Was there an event or something that triggered his change or just aging and life? I think some people are meant to find that one person and are dedicated to that one for their life. I feel that’s how I felt, but I am not sure where I am on my remaining days. I want to at least find a companion to travel and enjoy things. I did only want to marry once and live out that life and story. We cant imagine such a good life can change on a dime…until it does 😞
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2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#128: September 05, 2021, 10:01:12 AM
 
Quote
Was there an event or something that triggered his change or just aging and life?


Not anything really apparent and certainly anyone that knew us had no clue and I certainly had no idea.  We had extensive travel plans booked..he basically woke up one morning, looked at me and said he needed a separation.

Similar to what others have said, the death of his mother, increased job stress, physiological changes, the perfect storm as they say. He was more distant about a year before BD and we had talked about that and were going to do some work on that.

Regardless of what initiated the crisis (and there are multiple causes) like trying to understand MLC, it helps me to consider what I know but it doesn't change my own reality of how I am to live.

I do believe that there are issues from each person's childhood that somehow comes out at this stage of life.

In therapy, I was relating my family history of my older sister who left home at age 17..I came home from school, I was 8 years old and she was gone...and my therapist astutely looked at me and said "so this has happened to you before"...."someone you loved left suddenly, without warning. You were 8 years old and had no way of making any sense about it"....so you see, we are all influenced by our past.

Quote
but I am not sure where I am on my remaining days. I want to at least find a companion to travel and enjoy things. I did only want to marry once and live out that life and story. We cant imagine such a good life can change on a dime…until it does 😞

The loneliness I feel is the hardest thing. Although I have friends and plenty of activities, I live thousands of miles away from my family..this is not my home but I have made it my home.

I would like someone to love again..I miss being in love, knowing that there is someone who has my back....but for a variety of reasons, this is not something I will pursue.
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 10:03:05 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#129: September 06, 2021, 01:59:26 PM
Xyzcf-
Quote
Not anything really apparent and certainly anyone that knew us had no clue and I certainly had no idea.  We had extensive travel plans booked..he basically woke up one morning, looked at me and said he needed a separation.

Similar to what others have said, the death of his mother, increased job stress, physiological changes, the perfect storm as they say. He was more distant about a year before BD and we had talked about that and were going to do some work on that

Same!! Vacation planned, looked at lake houses to buy 2 weeks before. He told me to put a bid on one. Also, believe besides death of our 14 year old daughter and his father 3 months later, job stress and health issues he didn’t address all were a snowball affect. I think he has the hardest part of getting over his ptsd from our doing CPR on our daughter. He did the mouth to mouth while I did compressions. He can not get that nightmare out of his head. I can totally understand and have empathy beyond. It is the reason I stuck by him after I found he was having 3 EA at the same time. Ge just needed to escape his head.

I wish I had found this page when I found the phone March 2018. I really believe we would be in a better place, but then you never know. No one can figure out their minds except for them and they struggle for years. It’s just a tragedy.
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2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#130: September 10, 2021, 02:51:22 PM
One of those days when the fire ignites and explodes!! My daughter is getting married in 8 days. She has been a wreck. FSIL family is all fighting. Of course D30 Dad is paying, but physically been absent.  We had a conversation after she sent the wedding timeline. It showed son and mother dance. I said what about father and daughter dance? She said she thought they were creepy and that FSIL would rather not, but his mom would be hurt.

And then… she said FMIL would not even let her son use her car when his was in the shop, she said if anyone should dance with him it should be her Dad who let him use his for 6 weeks. I said?? He has a second car? I just let you use mine for 2 weeks and I went without a car? She then proceeded to yell that it isn't a competition and that if he does anything positive can she just not appreciate it, but no I have to shoot it all down!!  She said she is trying to grasp any relationship with him. I told her I want you to have one. I encourage it. I just sometimes feel I am invisible and I am always here. He has been gone for 9 months.

Anyways, she could not be talked to. Ended up having a 2 hour conversation with XH. Hadn’t talked to him in 3 weeks, but texted him that she was a wreck and mad. XH called. I feel I am taking the beating constantly for him being gone. XH “she asked him to give a speech at the wedding and I cant come up with anything to say” . XH has some good days, but the bad days are more and much worse. XH asked me if I wanted to give the speech. I said we were a very good team that built our life from nothing to be very successful . Lets use that team work to show our friends and family we can come together even after all we have been through and do the speech together.

I came up with doing a timeline of her life switching between us telling stories. He would start with greeting everyone and he would also end with a toast to the couple. XH said that sounds good. I said there is a lot of anger, tension and confusion with D30 and S28. How did he feel about going  to family therapy and see is we can resolve some issues to better move forward for them. HE AGREED!!! Said get some available dates and times!! What??????

Such a turn around of a terrible fight with D30 to clearing the air and getting a man easily agree to therapy for his family who wont go for himself. Even if it is one session one and done it is something. Doing the speech together will show friends and family we can come together despite this horrific time. Mostly it will show our children that the parents they knew for 30 years are trying to fix this in some capacity . He is also coming by before the wedding to see me alone since we have not seen each other for 4 months. So, it won't be so awkward at the wedding.

It isn't everything, but it’s something. Something is better than nothing :)  and Nothing is better than trying to heal this family in any small way



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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#131: September 12, 2021, 06:14:35 AM
Tornup, Thinking of you as your D's wedding approaches.  My S married last summer.  As happy as I was for my S, I dreaded the day - h and I had not seen each other in some time.  My close friends and family braved covid fears out of support and love.   And I knew this community would be there in spirit as well.  On the day of the wedding, I was full of the most unbelievable joy and love. The kids' love was so obvious and the joy settled like a magical golden stardust over everything.  H's presence did not matter. I wish you joy of the day. 
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#132: September 12, 2021, 07:39:47 AM
Tornup....idk if this is a pattern for you or indeed if it bothers your daughter, but hers what I see you did, intentionally or otherwise just in case it does matter to your daughter.

Your daughter, for her own reasons, decided to ask your xh to give a speech at her wedding. Wisely or otherwise. Your xh tried to pass the obligation over to you bc he said he didn’t know what to say, having agreed to do it. (Which is a rather infantile response rather than an accurate one presuming he is functionally capable of speech....the internet is full of this kind of stuff or he could have just kept it very simple.....what he actually meant was he didn’t want to do it and/or it made him feel uncomfortable, in which case as an adult, that was a conversation to be had with your daughter surely.) You both then decided to do it together (and you will honestly know how much of that solution was created by you or by him). And to use the speech to show something to others about the two of you as a team.

The one thing that is missing here is respect for your daughter as an adult with her own wishes about her own wedding rituals. And a missing honest conversation between them which may well be part of rebuilding a more robust adult relationship. Somehow from over here it looks as if this speech has become all about him and perhaps you....on a day that arguably isn’t about the two of you much at all....and simply not what your daughter asked for. And you used the situation to leverage a bout of family therapy which you see as a beneficial thing although I am unsure if this is something your xh, about to be married daughter or son have actually asked for at this time.

From the cheap seats this looks like a conversation which was much more about your xh and your wants than about your daughter’s wishes. Did you know you were doing that? Does it matter to you stacked up against your xh’s discomfort with it? How do you think your daughter might feel about it? (Let all ne how she might feel about her wedding being so swiftly followed by FOO therapy.) Is this a pattern in the dynamic of your family bc, if so, it might well explain some of your daughter’s anger? Are you still getting caught up in a fixer/rescuer role for a man who divorced you and is in a relationship with another woman? And do you see how very far this All was from the kind of detachment you say you are trying to achieve? Or the risk of prising your xh and adult children into family counselling that they did not initiate or arrange? Just a few thoughts. I don’t mean to be harsh, I know your intentions are good.....but I am taking you at your prior word that you want to detach from some of your old marital patterns. And from over here, there are layers of ‘offness’ about it all, mostly about things like respect and promises and accountability.....all of which imho are darned important things in healthy families.

I hope though that on the day all the good stuff transcends the tough stuff for all of you just as Mal described.
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« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 07:52:18 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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#133: September 13, 2021, 06:51:01 AM
Treasur-

There is nothing healthy happening in the family since his crisis. Was this a pattern before ? No? Also, my daughter is fully aware he did not want to give a speech. He is not healthy. She actually also said she loves affirmation and any of us could give a speech. I did ask her if she would mind that we do it together. She said it did not matter to her. I wish he could sit down and have a grown up conversation with her or any of us. He could then he would not be the teen escape artist that he is right now. Unfortunately 😔

I am trying my best to make sure that her wedding goes off well. She was married before which was his first breakdown. He gave a speech adjusted from on off the internet during that wedding when he was no way near the crisis he is in now. It was a disaster that she was there to witness. I do think she needs him to come through on the speech. Mostly due to his absence for 9 months. Of course the parent that is there. The reliable always there parent  is the one that is mostly taken for granted. At least that is how it is playing out. I do not want to give the speech with him. I thought it was a good solution and also would again ease those that know their is chaos in the family. I think it came off as it being about us, but the family situation is recent and well known. My thought is that if our kids and family could see even with the chaos we are able to come together for HER it would ease things. Specially for our adult children who are struggling with this more than I realized.

Thought it might be good for all. Maybe I am wrong. I am just doing my best. Apparently, everything I am doing is wrong. I will talk to me therapist for guidance. I am definitely a fixer. I cant seem to fix anything. My daughter is coming over today and I will ask her again in person on the speech.

Quote
From the cheap seats this looks like a conversation which was much more about your xh and your wants than about your daughter’s wishes. Did you know you were doing that? Does it matter to you stacked up against your xh’s discomfort with it? How do you think your daughter might feel about it? (Let all ne how she might feel about her wedding being so swiftly followed by FOO therapy.) Is this a pattern in the dynamic of your family bc, if so, it might well explain some of your daughter’s anger? Are you still getting caught up in a fixer/rescuer role for a man who divorced you and is in a relationship with another woman? And do you see how very far this All was from the kind of detachment you say you are trying to achieve? Or the risk of prising your xh and adult children into family counselling that they did not initiate or arrange?

I am thrown off by this? Someone has to initiate counseling if counseling is to occur. I asked him what he thought an he said yes. I then asked S28 and D30 and they said yes. There is no timeline of being swiftly done after the wedding, but there is now disfunction in the family and I do not know how to fix it. That is why I thought a therapist would be good. So, am I still a fixer? YES!! I see this family in trouble and I want to work on it. I’m not sure why that  would be wrong. I am open for suggestions?
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 07:39:13 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#134: September 13, 2021, 07:11:36 AM
Maleficent-

Thank you for sharing. That is what I hope for as well ❤️
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#135: September 13, 2021, 07:53:47 AM
Well, of course I could be completely wrong....my perspective was just based on a few words you wrote and lets’s face it, i’m an LBS whose life got blown up so i’ve Been wrong before lol.

Quote
I will talk to me therapist for guidance. I am definitely a fixer. I cant seem to fix anything.
I’m glad you have an informed professional to talk to. How wise of you to get one bc this stuff is hard to do solo.
And I am so sorry for any pain and helplessness you feel about being a fixer who finds herself in a situation that, despite all your best efforts, is beyond your ability to fix. We get that....it is agony bc all of the folks involved matter to you so much.

My challenge is not about your wish to fix the dysfunction in your family’s situation or why you want to do so. Indeed, I rather admire how clear sighted you are about the dysfunction.
It is more about encouraging you to see the sometimes invisible costs of fixing and to recognise that you are, at a very simple level, outnumbered here by xh, son, daughter, their partners, even ow’s agenda in the mix. You are just one person and the horse to water principle is often a real one. Carrying a responsibility to fix all of the dysfunction caused in a family system, including relationships between others that are not about you, is a heavy heavy load. Well, they have all said yes to your invitation, so I guess you either set it up and see how it goes or wait and see if they take action bc they want it as much as you do. But talking to your IC about the limits of your responsibility and laying down some of that load might turn out to be useful if family therapy does go ahead. Bc trying to fix things you can’t control but care about deeply is spirit-crushing and exhausting imho. You can only do you though, can’t you?

I want to acknowledge that NOT fixing sometimes can be very painful too bc it often requires us to accept things we just don’t want to accept or to need to change the focus of our hope. Which usually leaves us feeling a bit worse before we start to feel better, doesn’t it? And I am so very sorry that this is the situation your family find themselves in, truly I am.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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#136: September 13, 2021, 08:21:56 AM
This is the week, Tornup. for your daughter's wedding. My daughter's anniversary is tomorrow, so I remember well the week before her wedding! Not being an intact family was not the way I had ever imagined it would be.

There has often been discussion on HS about how many LBSer's feel they are "fixers" and sometimes that makes it difficult...but in reality this is not necessarily a negative "label".

I think as women, as mother's, it's part of our role to find solutions to the problems we encounter, especially for people that we love. I don't see it as trying to "fix" the other person, but manage situations so that it will be as comfortable and drama free as possible.

Since dealing with an MLCer is "unpredictable" I learned to relax as much as possible and let things sort of unfold. He wanted to be included, even in helping to make the fancy sandwiches that I was making for the girls and I as we were getting our makeup and hair done....he wanted to be a part of his daughter's wedding, as she wanted and as it should be.

Family occasions are difficult when there is a marriage breakup...but  do we stop being a family? In many ways yes, but those bonds will always be there, no matter what the outcome.

Emotions were very high for me that week. Indeed holidays are always a bit more difficult than the regular days.

What works for me is to determine how to create space for us to be together without it causing damage to my well being. It took practice but for me, the ability to be at ease with him is truly a win win situation.

It is not so much "fixing" anything, it is to make things as peaceful and decrease as much stress as possible on an occasion that is only going to happen this one time.

He is not able to do that....so it is on your shoulders.

Quote
YES!! I see this family in trouble and I want to work on it. I’m not sure why that  would be wrong.


I do not see it as being wrong. I think that we have all tried to get the help that we think could heal what has happened. It seems that help that we get individually seems to have the most benefit. The MLCer is still on their journey. I feel my role is to accept him and function as best we can as a "family" even though it's been broken. My daughter and I both see him and recognize that this is not the person he was...and so, we are in agreement of what is the best solution to cope in this situation that neither one of us even wanted.

Looking forward to hearing about the upcoming days. It is important for you to have a place to vent or just let it out as you try and interact with others in your family and circle of friends during this stressful week.
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 08:24:19 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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#137: September 13, 2021, 08:51:49 AM
Torn if I may ask you, about this family counseling.

What expectations do you have in mind for this to be a success?  Would it just be that you could all be able to communicate your feelings to each other in a safe environment?  I know your kids are hurting, but I would hope this wouldn't all come down on him being blamed for his choices.  Only because if that does happen I highly doubt he would want another session to feel guilty.

I'm not saying that will happen just that it could, and with you sitting right there may make him feel like he was set up.  That's how MLCer's see things sometimes.  Their the victim, ya know?   ::) ::)

Just a suggestion but would it perhaps be a better idea for him and his kids to have the family counseling ? Just a thought.  It may be easier for them to open up to him if they were alone with him.
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#138: September 13, 2021, 09:33:05 AM
Torn,

May I share our family’s experience?  I hope it’s OK that I talk about us…. This discussion brought back memories from over 3 years ago. 

My daughter floated the idea of family therapy when all my kids and I were well into serious reconnection with H.  (Some of us were still quite fragile still.)  D and I discussed pros and cons of family therapy in our specific situation and came to the conclusion that there was not much to be gained from any family therapy until everyone of us had healed considerably and could discuss relationship rationally and in emotionally mature manner, and that the best course forward was to continue with the individual therapy.

It is notable that, by the time each person was standing solidly on their own emotional feet, the need or desire for any ‘outside’ help had simply evaporated.  As each person healed, so did our respective relationship with H, and our family unit grew stronger.  This makes sense to me because you cannot build a ‘house’ with damaged or broken material.  Even if our children and I regained most of our emotional health, there was not much prospect of building a positive relationship with H, let alone building a family with him in it, if he were not at a similar point in healing. 

I’m obliged to add that the above is just a sample of one.

I wish you and your family a wonderful day at the wedding. 

Here is to the couple!  🥂
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 09:51:17 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD. 
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

H never left home.

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#139: September 13, 2021, 10:00:02 AM
Hugs to you, Torn. This is a stressful time. The only thoughts I have for you is to keep your expectations at a normal level. While there is nothing wrong with trying to find solutons that will make your life easier, there is the fine line of doing it for your well being,  and doing it for everyone's else's well being because that makes you feel better. The former is based on you seeking your own wellness, the second makes your wellness dependent on outside forces beyond your control. Should everyone go to family counseling, yet no one but you try to do any of their own work, it could be disappointing for you if you expect everyone to go with the attitude you might want them to have, but perhaps they won't.

As long as you seek to help with no ulterior motives (ulterior motives: if I do this, it will look better to others; if I do that, I can fix what is broken; if I do this other thing, I can make peace between these two people who don't care enough to try on their own), then whatever comes from your solution attempts is OK (Solutions for things that affect you: I would like D to have a speech for her wedding; I would like better communication skills S,D, Xh, but I cannot control what they do).

Example: S21 could not get started on homework. He did not understand what concepts his Economics teacher gave him for parameters. He called for help. I could "fix" it by doing his paper (nope). I could "fix" it by telling him what he needed to write in his paper. (Nope). I could "fix" it by having him ask his teacher (nope, he didn't understand the first and second times he asked, so asking again would likely not help). I could "fix" It by explaining the concepts giving examples of each, and having him feed my back his own examples of understanding. (Yep). He went on to write the paper by himself and earned his own A. The first two choices would be infantalisizing him (not capable of doing his own work and he did not ask for my help with that ). The third choice would be setting him up for failure and my not paying attention to what his problem was). Now, had he asked for help with his finishe'd paper, I would gladly edit and make suggestions, but only if the paper was written at all. Writing the paper myself would make me feel better (he could pass the class), but would teach him nothing except how to get out of doing difficult things.

Whatever you do, if it doesn't fix what you expected, look to make sure that your "fix" was not dependent on outside forces you cannot control. And if a "fix" that is ouside your control doesn't work, don't take it personally.

I wish your D a lovely wedding and thereafter.

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 10:01:34 AM by OffRoad »
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#140: September 13, 2021, 11:06:18 AM
Wellll, let’s talk about support!! Thank you all for tailking the time to assess the situation and offer guidance.
Quote
You are just one person and the horse to water principle is often a real one. Carrying a responsibility to fix all of the dysfunction caused in a family system, including relationships between others that are not about you, is a heavy heavy load
Treasur- I think this is so true. I feel a very heavy burden. I am the one everyone D30, S28 and XH complain to. So, I think I am trying to help them and help myself even more. I’m trying to detach from XH , but the drama of the effects and wedding have made it difficult. Yesterday, my son said the OW was assigned to him directly at work, by someone that knows of the relationship. This was done intentionally. The OW asked S28 for help on something and he said he would help her in a minute an she got angry with him and said “ you’re not going to help me now?”
She worked nights and so he did not have to deal with her much, but now they are moving her to days and he wants to quit.

Also, since our youngest daughter died she was the binder of s28 and D30. My two remaining children struggle in their relationship. So, I feel there are some issues before XH crisis that need addressed and M & D relationships are difficult and I feel my D30 can be self centered in moments and unappreciative. I think she holds some issues with me , but she prefers not to address and then blow up.

Acorn- Thank you for that insight. I think my D30 would go to individual therapy again and I of course just started. I am not sure on S28. I would guess No and XH should be back in therapy, but have not seen that start back up. I feel any therapy or contact to work family issues would be beneficial to XH

Off road & Thunder- yes, I hope I don’t have any other motive than helping my family find a way to maybe get out the worst issues on their minds at the very least and have a outside source that guide us through those talks, because I am failing at it. I am not a dr or a therapist

Xyzcf- This last week has been anxiety filled. Bridal tensions are at an all high and just feel bad she thought she could have a wedding with no drama and it be all about her, but it’s not all about her. Should her wedding be? Yes, but again we can’t control anything but us. She is learning that people will act and do what they want and this has not played out as she wished. I feel very bad, but when she got engaged I knew that would send XH back into major escape mode and it did. She is fully aware of his struggles and she doesn’t care. She said He can get help. She does not feel sorry for him,but she also needs him to step up and when he does in any small way he is praised. I on the other hand am here everyday and she knocks me down like I am not.

So his crisis and absence is felt from them. As the parent still here I can see I am going to be the one taken for granted. I would hope at their age that would not be the case, but I saw it play out in my own household. We were younger, but the child craves the parent that is absent.

I feel after Saturday there will be a huge burden lifted. I feel I can focus on me. I dont have to worry about seeing XH again. I feel we probably wont see each other for years. If he continues in crisis, this very well could be the last time we are together in any type of setting for a long time. There is some anxiety and sadness in that  as well. It’s just a lot!! I know I am not the first nor the last, but like you said. Good to get it out and vent a bit. Otherwise it can come out in an unattractive form.

I have always been confident , but I definitely can see my inabilty to control a situation brings up some emotional immaturity issues that I need to work on. That is going to be my next focus in therapy. I feel if I dont fix that then detachment is difficult.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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#141: September 13, 2021, 11:42:40 AM
"Off road & Thunder- yes, I hope I don’t have any other motive than helping my family find a way to maybe get out the worst issues on their minds at the very least and have a outside source that guide us through those talks, because I am failing at it. I am not a dr or a therapist"

Torn, I never said, or suggested you had a motive.  I'm sorry if you thought that.
I understand you are in a very hard spot right now with the family.
I only suggested that it may be more productive for the kids and their father to do family counseling alone.

You are not failing at anything. It just seems like maybe the issue is between your X and his kids to solve.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
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#142: September 13, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
Thunder- I bulked you in on that reply due to you question on expectations. Which is a valid question. I think honestly I have to revaluate many things I do and say. You feel you have a handle on where your head is and then it changes.

Many times I wanted to stand and then I was FOR SURE I did not. I care for him, no he can rot in HE$$!!! I think I feel deep in my soul he really loves me. I also think deep in his soul he is done. I think he is a very weak individual that has always compartmentalized, escaped and avoided. A lot of covert narcissism traits with a little BPD. So, I think I feel this is for eternity. So, I feel out of control, because I am strong. I would never be in his position and frankly I don’t understand it.

So, I do have to look at everything. Including my expectations of every action I put out there. The inner turmoil that is fighting the inner strength is REAL!!! I have never been this defeated, emotional and vulnerable in MY LIFE!! Not due to my inability to weather the storm, but for the hurricane that came without a warning. It was out of my control. The house that I built could not withstand the storm. The beautiful amazing house of memories that should have had a future.
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 11:59:48 AM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#143: September 13, 2021, 12:26:54 PM
Oh my gosh, YES!  I am the same way.

I was always strong and dealt with anything that came up, but this is so different.
I had no control over what he was doing and that was a hard pill to swallow.

Love you?  Of course he does.

I asked my H after about a week...How can you just fall out of love like this, after all these years?

His answer?  "Who ever said I don't love you?"

Crazy making!
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Love and Insanity continues
#144: September 13, 2021, 01:00:47 PM
Tornup....every word, every feeling, is SO normal for anyone who has been in your shoes. Each person reading your last post will know just what you mean. And how much inner and outer turmoil is involved. Which is exactly why we don’t judge you bc we have all been in that particular glasshouse so could never throw stones at yours  :) But we also know, perhaps, some things we learned from our own mistakes that make it harder and if we could save one person from the worst moments of our own experience, everyone here would strain a sinew to do that. I would not wish this experience on anyone, not one person.

And we also know that some trial and error is part of how each of us find our own way through.
We wish we could.....but we can’t fix everything for you just like you can’t for others. And that is a little heartbreaking sometimes.

People post here and sometimes quite quickly you get a sense of the kind of person they are. There is something rather wonderfully courageous in how honest you are, how you fall over and get up again. It’s a lovely quality in a human, a good graceful kind of vulnerability, something seasoned.and worth treasuring. And it shows that you are not as defeated as you doubtless feel right now. But bc we know the tumult of the storm you are in, we want you to take pause and a breath sometimes to think about how and when you invest that marvellous essence of Tornup, that’s all. And we will cheer you on just as much when you fall as when you get up. X
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Love and Insanity continues
#145: September 13, 2021, 01:35:33 PM
Treasur-
Quote
People post here and sometimes quite quickly you get a sense of the kind of person they are. There is something rather wonderfully courageous in how honest you are, how you fall over and get up again. It’s a lovely quality in a human, a good graceful kind of vulnerability, something seasoned.and worth treasuring. And it shows that you are not as defeated as you doubtless feel right now. But bc we know the tumult of the storm you are in, we want you to take pause and a breath sometimes to think about how and when you invest that marvellous essence of Tornup, that’s all. And we will cheer you on just as much when you fall as when you get up. X

What a beautifully uplifting thing to say. I think we can kick ourselves when we are down. Wow, how I wish we had a magic wand or pill to stop the turmoil and destructive of this process, but the stumbling and moving forward is the only path. You know one thing I have learned in this crazy emotional $HIT STORM is that you do get to know what your made of and also your faults come out in full force. I really never realized when I am really mad about something and he shuts me out by no communication I can start spewing nasties. I think after decades of it with no change it was the only way to get his attention. A reaction was better than nothing. The swear words come out, or don't speak to me again. Usually only if a drink have been had. Immature spewing from a otherwise very fun loving, corporate career and smart woman. I hate that aspect of me. I know I got it from my mother. She could be very cruel with her actions and words. I am glad mine only comes out when I feel I have no voice. It is the one thing I urgently want to address. I think we can all see our faults come out and maybe things we never would have addressed get just that!
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 02:19:02 PM by Tornup »
H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Re: Love and Insanity continues
#146: September 13, 2021, 07:11:13 PM
Oh my gosh I so understand all that tornup, but what do you think about my suggested that it may be more productive for the kids and their father to do family counseling alone?

How do you feel about that?  Do you think it could be beneficial for them or no?



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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Love and Insanity continues
#147: September 13, 2021, 07:26:58 PM
Thunder-
 I love that idea, but I don’t think he is strong enough and I also feel my daughter has some issues with both of us. She tends to be self centered and can only see her side. I hoped she would mature and that would change, but it is something that has been with her and as her since a toddler. She can be very difficult. She maintains few friends and all friendship end in conflict, yet she can’t see it. I’m not sure what the right approach would be, but I also feel like I have not always handles this situation the best and so I would also like to be there to know what we can do to change it.

Ultimately if he would have gone to therapy with me instead of escape, affair and divorce we would not need to so this at all. If he would address his own issues we could sit down like adults and talk ourselves. I feel something needs to happen, but the mind of a MLC’r is not rational. The more conflicts that arise due to his decisions the more messages I get from him not needing to exist.

Today I got the following texts….
It feels like me surviving is making everything worse
I'm just tired of failing,  I'm at the end
I’m ready for my days to end

I will probably continue my therapy and see if anyone brings up therapy now that I put it out there. If someone says Hey, I thought we were going to therapy? Also, see if he gets to a better place after the wedding. The wedding is his trigger. Also, communication wont be necessary after the wedding with us. Maybe he will feel the pressure ease and start to come around??? He has shown a lot of introspection and some moments of deep deep regret and loss of family.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#148: September 14, 2021, 04:14:42 AM
Ultimately if he would have gone to therapy with me instead of escape, affair and divorce we would not need to so this at all. If he would address his own issues we could sit down like adults and talk ourselves.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride and we'd all be knee-deep in horse poop..... I did the "if only" thing too for a long time and in the end it brought me ... nothing. It was wasted time because it didn't change the fact that xw did NOT (and still hasn't) addressed her own issues and likely will never do so because it is easier to blame her "issues" on me or our marriage... Path of least resistance and least responsibility.....

I feel something needs to happen, but the mind of a MLC’r is not rational.

The Mid-Lifer is very much like an addict - until THEY decide that something needs to happen, nothing (for them) will happen... This is something that you (the LBS) has NO control over..... If you feel that something needs to happen within your realm of control/influence, then you can  take action to make it happen. You can NOT take action for xH, D30, S28, or any other person.... rational mind or not...

The more conflicts that arise due to his decisions the more messages I get from him not needing to exist.

Today I got the following texts….
It feels like me surviving is making everything worse
I'm just tired of failing,  I'm at the end
I’m ready for my days to end

Sorry but...

Typical Mid-Lifer Script - "Ah woe is me! Poor Pitiful me! I am such a Looser! I just make everything worse"<blah blah blah> but making other choices, other decisions is beyond their capability....

I will probably continue my therapy and see if anyone brings up therapy now that I put it out there. If someone says Hey, I thought we were going to therapy? Also, see if he gets to a better place after the wedding. The wedding is his trigger. Also, communication wont be necessary after the wedding with us. Maybe he will feel the pressure ease and start to come around??? He has shown a lot of introspection and some moments of deep deep regret and loss of family.

If you wish to continue your therapy for YOUR benefit, then by all means because it is doing something for your own well-being but, as with everything else MLC-related, NO expectations that xH is going to bring it up or DO anything about it. Same thing for the kids. Maybe family therapy w/o xH might be something that you could explore with S28 and D30 - assuming that D30 is actually willing to own her part of the R with you. If not, there is NOTHING that you will be able to do about it except perhaps, via your own therapy, find ways to constructively deal with her.... the R between you and the kids is a different subject that the R between xH and the kids or xH and you and should realistically be handled as such until such time as there is enough healing within the individuals and the sub-groups to allow for progress to be made on a macro level...
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Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Love and Insanity continues
#149: September 14, 2021, 05:20:53 AM
Quote
the R between you and the kids is a different subject that the R between xH and the kids or xH and you and should realistically be handled as such until such time as there is enough healing within the individuals and the sub-groups to allow for progress to be made on a macro level...

URSA- /\THIS/\ is probably the best approach. Also, I agree. D30 has never been able to own her part in the R or any R when it comes to conflict. She honestly is like her father except confrontational. She spews and then wont listen to the other side. Her F just shuts down completely. Non confrontational. They dont like conflict, yet they create it. Unknowingly at times,maybe? Either way very hard to have relationships with unhealthy communicators. The funny thing is middle school my daughter was elected into the mediator program. If kids had conflicts she would be the mediator to resolve the conflict. She can see other conflicts and resolutions but cant see her own.
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H-54 W-58  M 7/6/91 Kids d-30 s-28 d-14 (dies 2009)
2013- moments of disconnect start
Aug 2016 promotion requires travel   
Oct 2017-total disconnect
Jan 2018- moved out H
Mar 2018- BD1 found old phone 3 EA ‘17-H in therapy
EA ow1-49,  EA-ow2 57, (EA- ow3-58 not reciprocated)
Sept ‘18 -2nd Home in new state H new job
Oct 2018-H moves home
Oct 2020 BD2 does not return home from B trip
Nov 2020 H move to 2nd home in other state OW4
Div filed-Dec ‘20   Div final-Feb ‘21
Oct 2021- XH moves in OW4
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11796.

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Love and Insanity continues
#150: September 14, 2021, 06:13:08 AM
Quote
the R between you and the kids is a different subject that the R between xH and the kids or xH and you and should realistically be handled as such until such time as there is enough healing within the individuals and the sub-groups to allow for progress to be made on a macro level...

URSA- /\THIS/\ is probably the best approach. Also, I agree. D30 has never been able to own her part in the R or any R when it comes to conflict. She honestly is like her father except confrontational. She spews and then wont listen to the other side. Her F just shuts down completely. Non confrontational. They dont like conflict, yet they create it. Unknowingly at times,maybe? Either way very hard to have relationships with unhealthy communicators. The funny thing is middle school my daughter was elected into the mediator program. If kids had conflicts she would be the mediator to resolve the conflict. She can see other conflicts and resolutions but cant see her own.

Can't see the forest because her nose is pressed hard against a tree, eh?

Well, until she decides that she has had enough pain inflicted in her R's, nothing will change. She will have to (for some people that is the only way they can) learn by way of the "School of Hard Knocks" that maybe there are  things that SHE needs to look at if she wants a healthy relationship...

Of course, if she chooses not to do that and continues to blame and point fingers, then 1) there is nothing that you can do about it (she IS an adult after all) and 2) it is maybe a situation that you wish to distance yourself from... I mean who, in their right mind, returns for abuse time and time again (Stockholm Syndrome aside)? At some point, we too say "All right, that is just about enough of that."

Oh, by  the way, it is that time... You need a new thread:



New thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11827.0
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 10:10:51 AM by Thunder »
Me - 58, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 14, D - 10
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

 

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